The Last of Us Part II - Busted Buttons Ep. 33

Following up on the last episode, we talk The Last of Us Part II all episode long. There are spoilers!

We start off once again with the main element of the PlayStation game, story. Was it as good as the first game by Naughty Dog? Did we like the addition of Abby to Ellie's storyline?

We then venture into the gameplay. What improvements were made? Did we like riding in the boat? Do we prefer the dodge button over the blocking button?

Afterwards, we discuss the legacy of the game. How will the review bombings affect it? How will the game be remembered?

We end by addressing the future of the franchise. Do we think there will be a part III? If so, does Abby return? Is Joel featured at all? What role does Ellie and Tommy play?

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Transcript

Hick: 0:17

Welcome to Episode 33 of the Busted Buttons video game podcast. And we got a real interesting one today because this is a game we're talking The Last of Us Part Two all episode long with this is a game that really is kind of like it has mixed feelings from everybody like there's parts that like really make me upset, but there's parts I love about it. Like you know, to me I think it's a very good game not a great game but we're gonna get into all that I can tell you what though man is an emotional game because I was watching their thing I was like damn man this game This game is rough so like next time we talk about game we're gonna do like Nintendo or something happy or something because I can't take all this emotional stress from the game But anyways, we're gonna be talking story chapters gameplay Legacy The future of the franchise and there will be spoilers we will be talking about everything in The Last of Us part two, including the ending so if you have not played this game and beat it yet we highly suggest that you come back to this podcast at a later time because we are going to talk about everything but anyways read I'm gonna kick it to you right here. Very simple like the last podcast episode which we talked The Last of Us like I said story chapters gameplay legacy future read go and take it off with the story. What's your opinion?

Red: 1:35

Well, the original last of a set such a high bar for story. It's, we as we mentioned last episode, one of the best stories in video gaming history in our opinion, and in a lot of a lot of people's opinion. So the bar was really high and the last was part two just didn't quite clear it for me. It's a good story. It is a good story. And I really liked the way they structured it and we'll kind of get into that you know here in a little bit but like the way they told the story was really good and unique. But the story itself just it was a dark story. It was not what's bad

Hick: 2:07

though, you know?

Red: 2:08

It's not why it's bad. It's just for me it didn't have quite the same feeling of the first one. Yeah, it's just because this one is all about revenge. Yeah, early on in the game you mentioned some emotional game like very early on in the game Joel gets killed one of the main characters from the original game he gets killed off and so Ellie is trying to get revenge for half of it and then you know on Abby side and like so we'll go through the story beats you know so but on Abby side she's trying to get revenge for when Joel killed her dad the the the surgeon in the first game. So this is the first game was all about hope. Like he was immune and they were trying to get her to a group of people who could do something about maybe create a cure this one is all about revenge and I think that because of that reason it didn't resonate with me quite as well as the first one did it's just like I don't have a problem with a darker tone I don't have a problem with the darker or like a revenge story even there they can be really good but just for me Everyone is just so angry and this and it's a shitty world they're living in when you're going through the zombie apocalypse all that I get it but to me though just it really does it did hold it back that like you know the first one was very much about hope and even as you're going through this horrible world there was hope and this one is just like no these two people just want to fucking kill each other Yeah. And and so to me that you know, it was less depth to it for that reason. And so that that was just my general take on the store but what

Hick: 3:38

about you? It missed the mark for me to be honest with you like it's still like when I beat the game I look back I said you know what, that was still a great story. But for the last of us franchise It was not they invade that fantastic of a story to be honest with you and just First of all, they killed Joe way too early in the game like so. Like I mean Joe's a character we went through the entire first game with like we formed an emotional bond with him and I just started kill them off a little bit too quickly now Yeah, it's nice that we get flashbacks later on the game with him like I'm glad they just didn't cut off right there anyway see him at all, but just it got too far away from the first game like you said, the first game was all about hope and then this was just like a teen drama like you know, revenge story and retribution. Like it just missed the mark. It just missed and like I said, that doesn't mean it wasn't a great story in the video games. I think it was still one of the better stories of the past year but just here's the thing with Naughty Dog like I've said I think I said this in the intro like I say the game is very good. Yeah, The Last of Us the original Part One was great. Yes, game is very good, which obviously is very good video game, but I expect more from Naughty Dog because of the stories and the games they've had in the past like obviously The Last of Us And then also the Uncharted ourselves yet gracious expecting greatness, because that's what night dog has given us. And as I'm going through this game, I'm just like, I don't know about that decision. I don't know about that. Yeah, I know. And, like, you know, a lot of them, you know, early sexual orientation, her being lesbian and then also, um, Abby having muscles like, those are two things that did not bother me or you at all know, a lot of other people. But this is what I'm trying to say is that, like, that part didn't bother us at all. But we still like the story. Right? Like, you know, there's a lot of people out there they're just dissing on the story because they don't like those two things, which, you know, I think is totally idiotic. But I completely agree this podcast This podcast is not placed for that. But um, no, like did did not bother

Red: 5:45

its own podcast, right? Yeah.

Hick: 5:47

But like, I just, I don't know, everything didn't come together the way I wanted it to. And I don't know. Do you think it took place too long after the original or did take place in the right time period? What do you think

Red: 5:58

I was fine with the right timeframe if they were going to make le kind of the playable character, which she was for the first maybe little over half the game? Yeah, she needed to be older than she was in the first one. Like, yeah, so that she could do all the crazy shit that you can do in this game and Gameplay wise that we'll get we'll get into gameplay in a little more detail.

Hick: 6:16

Why can we have jokin for this game,

Red: 6:18

and I think they just want to do something different. And plus, like they needed to. If the whole story is gonna be on revenge, they needed a reason for them to want revenge. And Abby had a good reason that tied excellent with the first game, you know, when her dad was the one who was supposed to be operating on Ellie and Joel killed him. So that's like that was built in. That was great. But Ellie needed an excuse to go on this revenge fueled campaign. Yeah. And so killing Joel, I think we kind of and I made the comparison to like the shocking deaths and like Game of Thrones, and kind of how we had some shocking deaths in the first The Last of Us. I honestly think because of Game of Thrones, like some of the, like, Joel's death, maybe didn't hit quite as emotionally hard.

Hick: 7:02

It'd be hard.

Red: 7:04

Well, it's just it's one of those where it did it did hit hard because we did spend what 20 hours or whatever with him in the first game, and he's a great character very fully fleshed out character. And I think he's just after going through something like Game of Thrones and even the first The Last of Us like that shock values almost kind of worn off. And and then or, or maybe a little more desensitized to it now. And then also, like they

Hick: 7:27

mentioned returns, like you just don't get as much usually with the second one. Like the first game was all shocking to us and everything from this one. We just expected a lot more and, you know, we didn't get it, which is basically the law of diminishing return. Right? But then in the like, they they killed off.

Red: 7:43

Ellie and what is her What is her girlfriend saying? Dinah? Deena Didi Dina's friend got killed off and then Abby's friend and who for Dina's friend, or somebody? Yes, yes. The one that knocked up D Yeah, that was Jesse. Thank you. I got a few of the names a few of the names forgotten here. Yeah. Over the course of the game.

Hick: 8:02

You just be like last week, man. Hey, but you know, he died

Red: 8:06

months ago in my time frame.

Hick: 8:09

taking forever to get back to the game. Yeah. Which, you know, I think says something about the game because I remember meeting you like we played the first one at different times. Yeah, we started in bam. We knocked it out now. Yeah, it's only 20 our game but I mean, it was a fast game for both of us. When this game like I pretty much went all the way through like, you know, without I might went out to another game here and there. But for the most part, I finished it out. But you like you took like, maybe a month off or something like that? Yeah, I think that says a lot about the game. Like it didn't grab your attention the way the first one did. And really, Dan, you're kind of talking about this, but like, you know, there's a great connection between Joe and Ellie, right? You think that connection with this game? Like, you know, in my opinion, like, obviously, this is read as opinion. So you might be totally, that's completely fine, but I just didn't feel that connection. Like I didn't feel as strong about Ellie and Deena you know, or or Ellie and Jessie is that did Joe in LA right then like, you know, the hope the problem with this game is me I did not care for Abby. And like I said, I know a lot of people got like upset cuz she had big muscles. I think that's absolutely ridiculous. why that matters. Like, I don't understand, but like that did not bother me at all. But Hell no, I just did not like Abby at all. Like, you know, first of all, she's a bitch. And then she kills Joe. So at that moment, you got to go, man, you just got to go. But, you know, as we start playing as Abby, which I absolutely hated, but um, because it was just, oh, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna butt heads on that one. Okay, that's fine. We'll get to it. But um, I forgot to say now about Abby. Um, oh, but I was kind of hoping that okay, after she kills Joe, like, you know, Joe, I just hate Abby. But I can't. I went in with an open mind. When I started playing as Abby. I was like, You know what, I want to get something that Makes me care about her, like I, like change my opinions on her. And there's a point in the game where that was starting to happen where I was starting to feel for Abby. And then the game just got away from it. And that was kind of the whole pacing of the game that I know that we both complain about. So you kind of will talk about the pacing and the issues you have with it.

Red: 10:19

Well, the game just seems overly padded. And yeah, it's not so much because the story like the story is fine. It's just there's so long chunks in between anything happening, like and part of that is they made the game a little more like areas of it are a little bigger, a little more open. So it's more stuff to explore. But there's so did you like that part of it? No.

Hick: 10:44

I did not. It was too much for linear game,

Red: 10:46

right. And the main reason that I didn't like those there's It has nothing to do in those sections. You have scavenge some supplies and you'd find a few enemies. And that is it. Like it didn't give me a reason to care that this was a bigger areas to explore. And yeah, there's new different ways to do combat, but I feel like just you would spend hours between like something actually happening in the store. Like I remember you and we talked about this very early on in the game like yes, Joel gets killed off, right. The very, like the first two hours of the game. Yeah, whatever. Nothing else happens for like, eight hours. Like the the rest of the stretch is just you as Ellie, traveling to Seattle, to find the group that did this. So yeah, it just it dragged in part of it is that Yeah, people like saying, oh, there's more content, there's more content. But when it's empty, repetitive content, in my opinion, in my opinion, it detracts. Like, I think that's why this the story suffered for it. Because like I said, history is fine. Like it didn't hit with me as well as the first one. But it's, it's a good story. Like you said, You liked it. But when there's so much in between stuff happening, you kind of lose track of the story. Sometimes there were times. And yes, part of it, you know, I took a little bit of time away from it. But there were times I'm like, I don't remember what the hell I'm actually supposed to be doing. I feel like I've just been walking on this road, or climbing this building, or whatever you

Hick: 12:10

play for 10 straight hours. I don't know if it's ours. But it was a long time.

Red: 12:13

There were long chunks between like stuff actually happening in the story. So I thought, I do think the game suffered very much from being a little overly padded. With those sections. I mean, there's only and they did Naughty Dog, as usual, did a great job putting like notes and things like that, that really fleshed out the world a little bit. And like, you know, it told some smaller stories within the bigger story that you're going through. Yeah, but you know, even that, that reward is is diminishing returns as well. And so so for me, the pacing definitely affected my enjoyment of the story, because I'm like, if nothing's happening, story wise, why do I care? You

Hick: 12:48

know, so, but you know, it tried to be too much like, decision. Are you open world? Or are you laying here because you're sure as hell in one of those hub games, like got a horse. So like to meet there was just like, you can't talk about this, there was too much content, like this game is very simple. The first one, like it was a very linear game with a great story. And then like, okay, we're gonna do that same thing. But we're gonna be some open world. No, you can't do that video games either be one or the other. Because if you're a linear game, and you try to be open world, well, I won't get upset because I think I played a linear game. And then all of a sudden, I think explore more than I want to, that's okay, in my open world games. But I'm playing a linear game to get away from an open world game. So I don't want that in my linear game. So to me, like, they just tried too hard, I think with this game, and they said, it's the most ambitious game that we've ever done. But that's obviously that's not always. We saw that like, yeah, you had a formula that was very simple, linear story and a little bit gameplay and it works. And then this when you try to be linear, your pacing was way off, you try to be a world, like there's not a lot to get in this huge, like we opened up these areas in May, I'm not so linear, like there just wasn't a lot to grasp, like you said, so. I mean, for me, that's another like the story missed the mark. And then I think kind of related to all this, I think exactly what you said, This had something to do with it. Because if you put too much in between the cutscenes, because that like I just said, I don't know if it was 10 hours or not. But there were areas where you didn't get a cutscene for quite a long time. I was like, Okay, this is I expect cutscenes from the last of us this like if you're telling a great story, it's got to have not like cutscenes but it's got to have that right pacing, it does have cutscenes in this game, like you would get a cutscene and then you weren't doing thing eight to 10 hours later, right? By that time. I'm like What the hell was even going on in the story and you made a good point with the joke. Like Yeah, you he gets killed in the first two and a half hours. And then I believe it was like right around, you know, my gameplay. It was right around the nine hour mark until something else happened. Like, hey, that's way too long.

Red: 14:59

It is And just yeah, I feel like we're bashing the game the whole time. And it's a good game. Like, I tweeted out when I be very good, but just shy of being great. The story had a couple other things that really irked me, like, and then and then I'm definitely a good thing

Hick: 15:17

real quickly, but I gave an 8.5. So I think like I said, a very good game. But I think the real I mean, this game meant a lot to us like it's an emotional game. And I think that's why we feel so strongly. Yes, we think it's a very good game. Yeah. But it was a disappointment. And that's the way it's coming off. But go ahead.

Red: 15:33

No, so I just think in we spent a lot of the last episode talking about the relationships, the relationships between Joel and Ellie felt so real then you had Henry and Sam in there and everything, like they felt like genuine relationships. I I didn't care that much for Ellie and Dana's relationship. Yeah. And I feel like they really tried to pull just like some random shock value, stuff like that. Not just the people getting killed. But like, revealing Dina's pregnant. Like, I

Hick: 16:02

honestly don't think that added anything to the story. I mean, it's like great, and it gives you one more thing to fight for anything detracted because she could have went along with this arbiter, and then that relationship might develop outside of that theater.

Red: 16:16

It really seemed like an excuse to sideline her and have you go it alone as Ellie and then later in the second half, we played as Abby, so like, just little, not little thing. It's a big thing, but like, that stuff really missed the mark for me, cuz I'm like, yo, she finds out that Ellie is immune, and I feel like that should have been a bigger deal. But like as soon as she finds out Ellie's immune Dean is like, oh, by the way, I'm pregnant. Yeah, I'm just like, that is just it just it's like there's

Hick: 16:42

moments in the game like where you said they try get shock value and just like, I think I missed there on that one. Exactly.

Red: 16:48

And you know, it was cool that yeah, it was with the ex so that added some and then he shows up and that adds a little bit of tension to like the relationship but it to me they didn't do enough with it. Like they never really went anywhere with it yet.

Hick: 17:00

Like they like that felt forced. First last episode, we were talking about the game being natural some of these relationships in the dialogue and what was happening to me felt forced, right,

Red: 17:10

I'm completely with you. And then so and then you know, Ellie, even finding this out like her girlfriend's pregnant all this stuff. Like she's still so dead set on this revenge. Like she almost doesn't care about dia except for Hey, help me find where Abby is. So I can go get revenge like so it's Yeah. And switching gears to Abby's story. I felt like her. Yes, she wanted revenge. And she killed Joel early on. Like, like that was very early on she so she got her revenge. Yeah. And the whole her whole story was she was just trying to find her friend, like her friend went missing. And so she was out trying to find him. And of course, that leads to you know, meeting Ellie and all that stuff down the road. But like, I thought Abby's story was better than Ellie's and I never thought I would have said that going into this game. It will at first I didn't know they're going to be two different stories like that. Yeah. But like, you know, Abby was all about like, I want revenge. Abby, Abby got her revenge in the first two hours of the game when she killed Joel. And then the rest of like her story. She's just trying to find her friend, who Ellie, you know, does end up killing? Yeah. Which spawns more want for revenge? Of course. And yeah. And so I actually thought Abby had the more relatable story. I guess that made me like it a little bit better. But what, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about Ellie started, what did you think of? I know you said he didn't necessarily like playing as Abby. But what do you think about at least her story?

Hick: 18:34

Yeah, I didn't know. I don't know if it's because I didn't like her. But I don't feel the same way. I really didn't care for a store that much. And like I said, it might have to do with me thinking that she's just a bitch. Right? But like, I don't know, I can't sit here. Exactly, like point out to why I don't like Abby all knows that. Like, I'm playing this character. And I just don't like her. Ryan. Um, you know, I don't know if it's our dialogue. I don't know appeals or attitude. Like her face. Like she always just looked mad. She does that. Like, you know, he could say the same about Ellie. But damn Abby smile every once in a while. So I know that you care. But for me, that's what really ruin the game for me. Like, um, you know, you could say this story. But the story was thrown in there. Like the whole story of The Last of Us has been Joe and Ellie. Yeah, you know, you know, first finding the hope. But like, it's been the story up until now. And then like, those been le

Red: 19:23

story. Yeah.

Hick: 19:24

Like, you know, in there like it just a lot of times, that doesn't work. And it didn't work for me because I'm like, why did that need to happen? Like, okay, if she wants to be a part of this story. I'm okay with that. But we don't need to go and do the exact same three damn days that we did. That's where the game got stretched out way too much. Because you sit there and you end with a cliffhanger where Abby is pointing a gun at Ellie and he said, Oh, you want to play three more days. And you just did that shit with Ellie. So yeah, like that to me right there. You know, and maybe that's why I didn't like me as much because they made up play another three days was her but that to me, like I hate it, I hate it. Like, you know if we would have played as Abby like, you know here in there, that would have been okay but to make us play almost the same amount as La because LA is a character that I like a lot and we have no these relationship with from the fan. Like I don't know if that gave me disdain for Abby but it was just too much of her like the whole 5050 like it was just like, okay, here's this character, we're gonna throw this character in, like, you know at the beginning, and then Oh, you're gonna play half of the game with them. Even though you have this attachment to these other two characters, and oh, by the way, we'll kill off one very early in the fucking game. For me, I had this. I mean, I do think I think the gameplay was better during that part to be honest with you, oh, I'm like, you know, going up in the skyscrapers going across that crane, which I was hoping that you know, Abby would fall off of, but like, you know, so I did think the gameplay was better her character um, I feel like she is like they both are very well fighting. But this has nothing to do with Abby's muscles, but like she's more athletic in the gap. It's not that way. But I felt like she was more athletic. And so the gameplay was slightly different. And I think it was more fun and just you know, Ellie's gameplay was mostly like on the ground like if like confined whereas Abby are going up in the air. You're going up elevator? Yeah, you're going through woods, like, you know, I think it is better. But still, I just did not like the part it was too much. Abby is too much of a character that I did not like,

Red: 21:30

well, I will say I do agree that Abby's part was too long. And I'm, I'm kind of torn on this because I did like the way they structured. They showed you know, Ellie's perspective for the first you know, three or four days, whatever, three days and then they switched and showed what Abby went through those first few days. Like I like that is a storytelling process too long, but it had these was too long. And I didn't need all this stuff with the with the two scars that she's running around with a Yeah, and lately.

Hick: 22:03

I hate that plot point. It's just

Red: 22:04

it. Part of that is going to be a criticism on the wolves in the scars. I'll get to here in just a second. But no, I liked the method that they told the story like showing agree was Ellie's and then you get the other perspective. Whereas actually, you know, like, like I said, I thought Abby had a little bit of a better like story. She's gonna go find her friend. But I do agree that her section dragged on way too long. I did not need to know every little thing she did in that period. Like

Hick: 22:29

it didn't make those three days, like 10 hours that would have been perfect. Right. So we got too far away from that climax we did and it

Red: 22:37

and I liked how they married the two stories together and there was enough overlap. You can see what was going on. I really did like that. But just all in all, yeah, her section Abby section was way too love. Okay, honestly, both sections were weird. Yeah, yep, agreed. Agree. But so I liked how they framed that story and told it but you're absolutely right. They could have cut it cut down the length of both of them. But now I kind of mentioned the two factions that we're really dealing with in the game are the scars and the wolves. They're both very hateable groups that don't get any redemption in the end. And I don't need every video game to have like a redemption story. Or maybe this side was right all along or whatever. Like these two sides were just one was a bunch of militant assholes, and one was a bunch of religious fanatics. I'm like it was two unlikable sides, even when you're playing as Abby, who at the beginning is one of the wolves she eventually leaves. But like, even when you're playing her part as one of the wolves, they're still just a bunch of militant assholes like, yeah, and then the stars don't they never give you get the one that that gets kicked out of the stars, because he shaved his head of all damn things.

Hick: 23:48

Yeah, like so we get to just coast man.

Red: 23:53

But so to me, neither of those two major factions in this game had any redeeming qualities whatsoever. It's just it's just two groups fighting each other. They were there to be gun fodder for you for Ellie and for Abby. But to me like, again, I thought that was a missed opportunity to show Okay, maybe both sides either side, but the games are

Hick: 24:14

too long. Like you're almost 25 to 30 hours in, you start putting those characters in like I agree with you. But then you start putting those characters in all of a sudden you're looking at 35 right of our game. So

Red: 24:25

yeah, it's just one of those things where it's like, there were a lot of different directions they could have gone that I think would have made a little more sense or fleshed out fleshed out some of these characters some of these these cults, whatever, you know, factions, whatever, the only one was a cult. The other one. Yeah, yeah. But so I don't know, it was a lot of missed opportunities. But you're right, it probably would have just made the game even longer than it already was it ours but you kind of started hitting on gameplay a little bit and I think we've talked enough about story. I don't think we Yeah, no,

Hick: 24:53

I want to tell people that like early on the intro, we said we're gonna talk about story and chapters. If we go through an hour just gonna rehash it bunch of stuff that we really already talked about. So I can't wait to read. I think we should go into gameplay so kind of go ahead with what you were saying.

Red: 25:06

So first and foremost, I really thought the gameplay of Part Two was worlds better than the gameplay in part one it just felt tighter like it like the controls were tighter. The first one and I think I mentioned this in the last episode like your character felt floaty, especially compared to other Naughty Dog games like I played the last was part one like literally in between two of the Uncharted games. And Nathan Drake controlled so much better in my opinion than Joel did in part one. So for part two, right, I keep calling it part one even though that wasn't the name of it back then. You know what I mean? But Ellie's controls were so much tighter than the controls in the first one like she just it was more precise and I think that led to more fun like gunplay more fun stealth just all in all she was easier to control I thought she would actually do what you expected her to do unlike sometimes the controls with with Joel were a little floaty and imprecise but with le you do have to remember it was a the original

Hick: 26:04

was a ps3 game master but some of those things same controls kind of crept into the remaster but go ahead

Red: 26:11

you're absolutely right on that and that is a good point. I mean that the original was you know came out and what doesn't Yeah, so I mean things weren't perfect back. No but but no so I just I really liked some of the little changes they made though to the gameplay like you can jump in yes one instead of just climbing and I didn't do that a ton but you know there were some places where it worked out well like jumping over cover you know things like that. Yeah, and just

Hick: 26:36

made the combat scenarios more vertical to it. You want to use that I didn't jump much either. But you could do that.

Red: 26:43

No, absolutely. And then just things like like you dodged instead of blocked and I feel like in most action video games I use I'm used to dodge instead of block because you like dodge and and then you attack and like I'm playing goes to Tsushima right now and I dodge way more than I blocks

Hick: 27:01

I do is your question. I know I put that note in the outline because I saw it on the internet but demerit that's actually correct like in the first one did you actually just block and not dodge

Red: 27:10

but to be completely honest, I can't remember it's

Hick: 27:14

down like okay people were not absolutely sure on that when I just read that on the internet about today I was like I don't really remember there's only blocking the first k but go ahead right now and so like little little

Red: 27:26

things like that I thought were really good you know one of our kind of are not really necessarily complaints but something that we talked about last episode for Part one is the fact that when you stop to craft something you know it doesn't pause the game zombies are still coming at you enemies are still shooting at you when you're trying to like switch out weapons or craft a new health kit you know things like that so that remained here in part two in some places it you know it I do like that it adds a little realism you know the the world doesn't stop when you need to heal yourself I get it

Hick: 27:54

should but like you should know what kind of player is playing and like oh hey explain Okay, we're gonna pause the screen while he's trying to craft some items here right

Red: 28:04

so so like so that is you know is a major gameplay element was still there so but you know, I feel like I've been talking this whole yeah a few minutes on gameplay so I'll throw it to you what is your general thoughts kind of on the game? I mean,

Hick: 28:15

really the same as you I mean a lot of gameplay was the same as the original Yeah, but I did like they like you know the Edit Little things like you wrote in a boat this game um, I did like that on a horse or not the first game but you know if you did ride on a horse the first game they made a better in this game so I mean things were very very similar they ended like we are you know, he talked about you could jump like combat was more vertical and stuff. So overall the gameplay was very similar but like you said it was smoother which makes sense for a game being released seven years later, but I'm just overall really playing the game like he offers match on the story quite a bit even though you know, I just we'll we'll kind of get back to a little bit but um, yeah, the gameplay the gameplay was solid, man. Like there was really not any glitches or anything like that, like I can't remember really run into any issues. The only issue that I have is once again just like the original that stupid like ginder guns like had you had to push like, up down left, right? Yeah, the hoedown square to switch weapons. Oh, man. I hate that. Now later in the game you do get more slots. Yeah. Which makes it easier but I hate that mechanic man. You can say talk about survivalists or all this other crap like you have to hit directional buttons like we when you're surviving. So I just you know I know it's a video game and everything but yeah, I didn't like that man. I don't like that at all but just um you know crafting like a lot of same items you could craft you know like the hell get Molotov you know, bombs mines, you know, whatever. Um, yeah, the pills again, I believe to upgrade abilities. I believe that was the same in the first game. And then you had some collection. Now, here's the thing that did not like your trading cards in this game. I loved those comic books in the game. Like those were so good. It just we talked a lot in the last episode. About how the original just kind of had those slow moments that like, you know, there's so much chaos, right craziness in the world that there's these little things that got you away from that. Like, you know, one was the dress, but you know another one was those comic books. Yeah, those were very good like points in the story and then this game like you know was missing there just had artifacts, cool. Whatever you train cars, reading comics, they'll seemed a lot cooler. Ellie seem to like them a lot more like you didn't really hear talk that much about the train cars now. No, it is a collection. And there's freaking infected running around everywhere. So she's not gonna be talking about trading cars that much. And you know, plus,

Red: 30:37

you have so much more in this one than in the first one. Yeah.

Hick: 30:41

I don't know. Doesn't the first or not Who cares? I don't know. I don't really I think it was because you had to open up your slots or whatever. But overall, my things on the gameplay are very good. It was very smooth. It was very enjoyable to play the add a couple of little things like you know, a couple other like, you know, I would say not vehicles, but like, you know, a horse and a boat to get around the larger area better. Now, one thing I didn't like about the gameplay, as we've already mentioned, was I felt like it was a little bit too big. But you know, they weren't trying to be open world, but they were trying to be open world like just be linear, very simple. And like we kind of I don't feel like rehashing that but that was one part about the gameplay that just didn't really care for but let's go ahead. I think we're kind of finished on that.

Red: 31:26

Before we jump, I just will say I liked how Ellie and Abby play differently. I mean, you mentioned that like Abby felt a little more athletic but like it seemed like her section of the game was a little more direct combat oriented whereas Ellie's was a lot more stealth it just seemed like the encounters were and you could do either one with with both characters, which you know I loved and one of the great parts about the gameplay is you can in attack these encounters you can tackle these encounters either head on or stealth like it gave you that option and both of them were very viable it just felt like Abby sections were a little more designed for head to head action like charging in whereas Ellie's were a little more designed for sneaking so I did like that they at least felt a little bit different. They had a little different weapons like Ellie had the regular bow and and Abby had the crossbow. So just like forgot about that. Just little things like that. That made it feel like yeah, you are playing as two different characters. Like with Abby, you had to craft shivs whereas Ellie had her pocketknife the whole time like little stuff like that it's the same function generally, but they still were a little bit different.

Hick: 32:30

So that's all I wanted to add on the gate. I hate those dogs though. I like to get like a certain distance from them. I absolutely hate those things. But I kind of want to bro What's going on? Well, you know, did you kind of want to chime which is something else you want to say we never discourage that no, no buts the but I can't say that name, the damn podcast and the Busted Buttons pockets. Anyways, you got a legacy talking about the game overall, which I think it guys kind of know where this is going. But we've been really negative so far. And we're gonna continue it a little bit in the legacy but we can also want to be right I think we should be a little bit more positive here because we do think it's a as I said, very good game. Overall. What's your feeling on the legacy of The Last of Us Part Two?

Red: 33:16

Well, unfortunately, and I'm going to be negative for a second, but it's not actually about the game. Unfortunately, this game will be remembered. Unfortunately for the fucking review bombing. A bunch of pissed off little whiny people decided to do like one or two hours right before they even had a chance to play the game. People were giving this game zero out of 10s for for no reason. They were mad that Ellie was a lesbian. They were mad that Abby looked you know, she was built not like your stereotypical video game character female like or they were mad that Joel got killed off or whatever. People were giving this game zero out of 10s on like Metacritic, just because they didn't like the way the story went, like people found every stupid reason to go bash this game. So the disconnect between the critical reviews like the actual professional fuckers who review games have this at like a 95 on Metacritic. 94 something like that.

Hick: 34:09

But you know, the whole argument against them though, is like no, they get paid a little bit extra. So if you like you have a bad rain, you might not get blackballed to do the next game.

Red: 34:19

So I get that there's a little disconnect there. But you know, yeah, the little whiny fuckers who went out and bash this game and gave it a siracha I don't care if you hated the story. Like the gameplay and graphic women touched graphics graphics alone make this like even if the story absolutely sucked the gameplay alone would make it a solid seven out of

Hick: 34:38

10 it was like graphically the best game I've ever seen Oh until goshima

Red: 34:43

absolutely beautiful game but you know that's that's more of a that's not bashing the last was part two that's bashing little idiots who want their voices heard on the internet, you know? Yeah, but those people but so I will say I thought it was a very good game as well. It didn't quite live up to the first one. I won't remember it actually. fondly as the first one, but it was still, the gameplay was an improvement. The graphics, of course, were an improvement. You know, it's eight years after the first or seven years after the first one was released, you know, the story took a little step backwards, but even by video game store standards, the story was very, very good. So, so to me, like, it's, I will always remember very fondly, like I had a fun time playing it, for the most part, even with it being a kind of dark game, very violent game, I will still remember it fondly because the gameplay was amazing. The story was very good. And it is a beautiful game. So that's my tire.

Hick: 35:37

Like, you know, it will be Sally, remember for those review bombings. But I think it's a game that people are going to remember for a long time, because it's so polarizing. There's so many people that were upset, like, you know, a lot of people were upset about the same things. But then there was like no other people that were just upset about this upset about this. And then, like, there was just a lot of mixed feelings overall on this game. And like, I'm like, I have mixed feelings talking about like, I think it wasn't very good game. I didn't really enjoy the game. Like it's a great emotional game. But at the end of the day, like I had to say, even though I'm saying it's a very good game, I'm giving it an 8.5 on my 10 point skill. I was disappointed. Yeah, that's kind of you know, that's kind of how I'm gonna remember a very good game. But overall, it was a disappointment. I think the story definitely took a step back. Um, you know, just, I don't know, like, just overall like, I mean, it's one of the most highly anticipated games, right? I can remember in a long time for Shane. It's one of those games that I feel like the majority was let down. Like if they liked the game, like we did, like, I don't really hear too many people say oh, The Last of Us Part Two was great. And it was better than the first one I've not heard anybody say that shit, but I'm gonna remember it like I understand the law of diminishing returns. Yeah, I understand that a lot of times the sequel is not better than the first one but we were just expecting so much the ball game but they still missed the mark all right story and it still was a disappointment and that to me like you know, he said it's a it's gonna be their legacy. I think it will be remembered as a good game but yeah, yeah, it's also gonna be like there's gonna be a lot of but you know, blah blah blah. Yeah, but there's gonna be a lot that when talking about this game in the dam and he took forever video games. Wrap up your goddamn needs. Okay, do you need to take forever ghosts Shima I applaud you for ending the game when I thought the game was going to be ending whereas the last of us Hey, let's take it to the farm. No, let's bring her back to Santa Barbara. No, let's take her back to the farm. And then oh, let's do a scene with Joe right here at the end which I really did like I'm not

Red: 37:46

gonna i did i like that too. Like,

Hick: 37:48

actually we've not talked about the end so here with legacy actually it's kind of it's the legacy part on the ending. What's your whole opinion on the ending of the game?

Red: 37:58

Okay, I can first of all I completely agree that they stretched out like the the quote unquote epilogue like the ending section so much it was like it It should have just ended Abby had the chance to kill her but she doesn't she walks away and that could have been the ending right there. Yeah, they could have stopped it right there and it would have felt like you know maybe the characters actually made a little progress maybe the characters actually learned something you know, Abby decided not to offer you know, it's but then they tack on that you know, it seems like Ellie is so happy there with Dina and the kid and then fuckin Tommy shows up and is like hey we got no evidence that you know she might you know we have a

Hick: 38:40

It doesn't make sense for Tommy to show up like that's just being selfish. Yeah, he understands that like you know Dina and them have a baby so right isn't like that part because he was a whole human as common sense would understand that you just don't interrupt what's going on their life when they have life going on.

Red: 38:54

I agree completely that was in Tommy had been like a good character through both games. Yeah, and then he just seems I know he got he got shot he got hurt. He lost his brother to just like you know lost her father figure so I get that he wanted revenge too but like to go and guilt trip or being like you swore that you know if we ever found her we go after again. You know it just Yeah, when she's there with her girlfriend or I don't know maybe they got married they might they may have been wife at that point.

Hick: 39:21

There's anything in the game?

Red: 39:22

Yeah, and so it just it was and then for her to actually go after Abby like after Abby let her live for her to decide she wants to go after I thought it was just shit character development. I thought it showed that they did not the characters didn't learn or she did not learn anything. And yes, I get at the very end she lets Abby live as well whatever. But I feel like it pissed away the good with like when at when Abby let her live. Just the fact he even went back after Plus, it did add more like three more hours to this game. And I was done with it at that point. But you know, so

Hick: 39:56

that's like the host heavy storyline like when she went to Santa Barbara Like she's looking for the fireflies, right comes across this group, the rattlers like I didn't just tacked on, I just didn't like it like it should have ended on the farm the first time, like going to the farm now, I will say something I did like the ending, overall. But the way that we got there and how long it took, I did not like like, just felt like, you know, we should ended at the farm the first time, like going there. And then going back out to Santa Barbara. Yeah. And then like kind of when you get to the part where Abby and Ellie are fighting, like that's where I kind of do start to like the whole end. And so like we're all watching today, and it was very emotional. Like I do think it took him a while to get there. But I do think the ending was very good and kind of ending on legacy. I want to ask you a question. Has there ever been anything more shocking in video games than joking and murder when he did?

Red: 40:46

The I mean, it's sad. I mean, you kind of put me on the spot there. But like, I can think like the first one where the daughter got killed, like right in the first minutes of the game like that came out of nowhere. So But still, I mean, I'd have to sit there and honestly think about if there's anything more shocking, but

Hick: 41:02

it's just a pie out there. I would think

Red: 41:04

I would think it would be as well because it just you expect another game playing even if you're playing as Ellie, you expect Joel to be there. And just having him get off? I think you know, and I think it's something more games will try to maybe try to emulate that shock effect and we see it a little bit already. And like I said Game of Thrones took it to the extreme, but

Hick: 41:21

I will say that shocked me it just shocked me when it happened. Like I kind of thought that Joe might die because like we're It's a crazy world out there. You know? So it's a very easy world in which Joe can't joking. I can't welcome Joe, you know can die. I just thought I was really shocked how early it happened in the game. But anyways, let's kind of talk about the future of the franchise. Yep, going forward. Um, let me ask you a question. Do you think there will be a part three? I think this franchise is too profitable for them not to you, even if they expect you to go that

Red: 41:50

way. But that is true. I mean, and even if they think they've told the story they want to tell. I mean, there's too much money on the table for Naughty Dog to this

Hick: 41:57

story is not over. That's my feeling.

Red: 41:59

Yeah. Because I've been good with like, okay, now since Ellie got home, and Deena and the kid were gone. I could see her trying to find her and see where it went. Or they could go in an entirely different direction. This is a very unexplored world All in all, yeah, I know when the first game Yes, we went from frickin Boston or whatever, or Pittsburgh wherever we have it. We

Hick: 42:19

made it. So we got a whole city right there we can explore.

Red: 42:22

So there are a ton of stories they could tell in a sequel. And I think financially they have to so but what do you think?

Hick: 42:29

Um, you know, I don't know, there's gonna be a part three, the guy like, you know, Neil drunk man, or drunk, drunk drunk man. Were the drunk, drunk man or whatever his name is like, you know, he, here's what he said. He said, going forward, it would be exponentially harder to justify going back to that world and find a way to vary things up. But you know, I think they figured out I do think like, I can go with you. I think the money like I mean, this thing is so over 4 million units in his release weekend. Like that is a ton. There's so much money now. That doesn't mean you should release a game. But I do think there's going to be a part three in really not that. Like I think that financial aspect definitely plays a role in it. But as I kind of chimed in, like when you were talking, I don't feel like the story's over. Like, I feel like there's more to this story. Like Yeah, Abby, and Ellie are still out there. Like, you know, do you think okay, you know, I'm not gonna ask you I'm gonna go to Bob. No, I don't want to be back like I don't like there's a character in like, I don't understand exactly how you go for with her. I know there is a plot point there. And I know that you can't go for with her. But so here now how do you do it?

Red: 43:35

I don't think there's a reason to bring Abby back. And they told her story. It wrapped up well, she got to live she's still with the scar. Love, I think was the same. So and I don't even know what happens to her. I'm good. I'm not I'm not attached to her. Like Ellie. Like I said they could definitely have her trying to find Deena and see where that follows out. Your you know, going back to Tom You mean like hey, I had a chance to kill her and didn't Yeah, you know, so they can they can still do some stuff with la Abby. Oh, I hope her stories

Hick: 44:04

but what about Ellie's two fingers though? Like she's I mean, that's I don't know. That's definitely a trigger finger but like I mean, she's that's gonna put her at a disadvantage, but was also immune to so

Red: 44:15

she's got that advantage going for but But much like I think Abby story is done. I think this podcast just about has to be done here. So yeah, as usual, we've we've flown through, had a great time talking about the last was part two, I think you really hit it on the head. It was good. Very, very, very good game. Yeah. Not quite at that great threshold, I think is exactly how

Hick: 44:36

how both of us feel about it. Well, thank you, night dog for making a game that was very enjoyable to play in an emotional experience,

Red: 44:43

right? Absolutely. So, as always, all links we're going to talk about here are going to be down in the description, you can support us on Patreon or PayPal. If you can't support us financially, we totally get it. Leave us a review. Leave us a five star rating that definitely helps with our like placement on the podcast links and things like that. We do have two websites. out there for some video gaming merchandise and Zelda merchandise we got TGPZ Media calm and two guys playing zelda.com so go check those out we may earn a little bit of commission on those because they are affiliate shops. Tell us a little bit about social media and YouTube.

Hick: 45:15

We got YouTube's were all started to guess playing Zelda over 10,000 subscribers so if you like Zelda walkthroughs ranking series, definitely go check out that channel we also have a YouTube channel for tg PC gaming mostly just put our podcasts there but that's the platform that you'd like to listen to. You can go check it out on there although there are advertisements unless you get YouTube premium anyway, we're on discord go check out discord if you want to continue the conversation with us we have a blast. They're talking PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo PC and some other things like sports and alcohol and then we're also on social media, Twitter, Twitter, Instagram. The username is at Busted Buttons pc but um, overall read these last two weeks man, they've been a lot of fun. They've been really emotional man because the last of us isn't emotional franchise, but we just appreciate and enjoy talking these games with y'all. So yeah, it's so much fun doing it. But anyways, we're definitely not doing a game the next episode because I need a break from the game. So we'll just be talking the industry, but we will see you all on the next episode.