Busted Buttons

Retro Gaming - Busted Buttons Ep. 38

December 16, 2020 TGPZ Gaming
Busted Buttons
Retro Gaming - Busted Buttons Ep. 38
Chapters
1:57
New Super Lucky's Tale Retro Levels
7:19
Retro Music & Sound
14:33
Gaming Experiences as Kids
29:56
Simplicity
36:54
Originality
43:11
Nostalgia
47:12
Why We Don't Play Many Retro Games
51:28
Wrap Up
Busted Buttons
Retro Gaming - Busted Buttons Ep. 38
Dec 16, 2020
TGPZ Gaming

We start off with New Super Lucky's Tale and a discussion around the retro levels you get to play after you beat the game.

That leads us into an episode focused entirely on retro gaming. We first address the music and sound of that time. What tunes still ring in our head? How creative were the developers with limited technology?

We then talk about our gaming experiences as kids. What was it like walking into a Toys-R-Us back in the day? Do we miss receiving physical games as birthday and Christmas presents? What were game stores like?

Afterwards, we dive into the simplicity of the games. Do we miss anything about having a limited number of buttons and controls? What was it like to pop in a game right away and play without having to run updates and patches?

Talking simplicity takes us to the originality of the games. How creative were games back then? What was it like when every franchise was pretty much new? 

We end by discussing the nostalgia of these games and why we don't play as many retro games as we would like to.

Help support the show

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Two Guys Playing Zelda (TGPZ)

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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

We start off with New Super Lucky's Tale and a discussion around the retro levels you get to play after you beat the game.

That leads us into an episode focused entirely on retro gaming. We first address the music and sound of that time. What tunes still ring in our head? How creative were the developers with limited technology?

We then talk about our gaming experiences as kids. What was it like walking into a Toys-R-Us back in the day? Do we miss receiving physical games as birthday and Christmas presents? What were game stores like?

Afterwards, we dive into the simplicity of the games. Do we miss anything about having a limited number of buttons and controls? What was it like to pop in a game right away and play without having to run updates and patches?

Talking simplicity takes us to the originality of the games. How creative were games back then? What was it like when every franchise was pretty much new? 

We end by discussing the nostalgia of these games and why we don't play as many retro games as we would like to.

Help support the show

Become a monthly patron: https://www.patreon.com/tgpzmedia

Make a one-time donation: https://www.paypal.me/tgpzmedia

Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/ETRz9bE

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gamingrealm/

Podcast Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/799910

Website: https://www.tgpzgaming.com/

Twitter (Busted Buttons): https://twitter.com/BustedButtonsPC

Twitter (TGPZ Gaming): https://twitter.com/TGPZGaming

Instagram (Busted Buttons): https://www.instagram.com/bustedbuttonspc/

Instagram (TGPZ Gaming): https://www.instagram.com/tgpzgaming/

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/TGPZGaming/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/tgpzgaming

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/TGPZGamingShop/

Two Guys Playing Zelda (TGPZ)

Website: https://www.twoguysplayingzelda.com/

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/zeldarealm/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TwoGuysPlayingZelda

Twitter: https://twitter.com/2guysplayzelda

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twoguysplayingzelda/

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/twoguysplayingzelda/

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/tgpzmedia)

Red:

What's up gamers Welcome to Episode 38 of the Busted Buttons video game podcast. And you know, we've spent so much time basically the last six months talking about the next gen consoles next gen consoles, which I'm loving mine, by the way not to rub it in there. Anyway, 120

Hick:

seconds to get into the podcasts that are rubbing my face that I still don't have a next gen console yet,

Red:

hey, I gotta get my shots. And while I can. We spend so much time talking next gen, we wanted to kind of shift gears for this episode, and spend some time talking about retro gaming. It's something we've hit on here and there throughout the history of our podcast, but never really dedicated a full episode. You know, retro gaming, why we love it, what stands out about it. So that's what we're getting into today. And I think what really brought this on, at least for you Hick is you've been playing through this game called New Super Lucky's tale. And I know we mentioned in the last episode or two, you really enjoyed it. But you mentioned that once you beat the game, it kind of spits these retro levels at you. So I think that's kind of our jumping point for wanting to do a retro geared episode. So I'm gonna kick it over to you to get us started. Well, first of all, I guess I should say, we're going to talk about

Hick:

the first half, and then go from there.

Red:

Yeah, I just got carried away, you know, making fun of you for not having a neck. But you know, we're going to talk about, you know, the music and sounds just the experience of playing these games as kids, the simplicity not stems of difficulty, but in terms of controls, yeah, how original games were back then the nostalgia factor. And then you know, even though we're going to talk about retro games, we're going to talk about why we don't really play them all that much, even though we love them. So now I'm gonna kick it over to you. Like I said, new super, Lucky's tale kind of really got the wheels turning for retro gaming for you. So how about you dive into that a little bit and take us through that.

Hick:

And what's crazy is it didn't happen until the very end of the game. Like this is a little bit of a spoiler, but not too much. Like after you beat the game. Like you get like another world like you know what happens in a lot of games where you play these levels. And these levels they're like they're retro levels, like they have a lot of that blue and pink colors that you see kind of you know what the whole Miami Vice and then the mind Oh, he also had that was jersey. So that kind of has like a retro feel to it. It didn't it has kind of like a synth wave musical sound to it, which also is very 80s 90 retro and you know, also is very cool. This screen actually looks like a to TV so they kind of cut off and make it black and it just it's so cool. And the graphics are a little bit blurry to what you went Thank you with like too much but you know, kind of going along with what they're doing and those levels, it works really well and I gotta be honest with you red is probably the most fun I've had in gaming in a very long time because New Super Lucky's tale first of all people I'm not really going to go to the game right now because we're talking about retro stuff, but really quickly officiate the game read, I am going to give it an 8.8 I think is dang good of a game one of the better 3d platformers I've played in a while recommend it for everybody. I think it's on PlayStation, Nintendo, and Xbox. But we'll talk about more about the game one day, but just plan to these levels and just the fun I was having. Like it obviously reminded me of playing video games in the 80s and 90s. Right don't get these indie games that you know use those styles of eight mystyle zeros 16 bits, no sprites. It doesn't it still doesn't feel to me it feels a little retro. But this like took me back and it made me feel like I was actually playing games as a kid in like, like you said, they inspired me like I know I shot you a couple of topics. Hey, let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. And before we knew it a pattern started and we're like hey, we have a retro episode because like Red said in the intro we don't play a lot of retro games nowadays. But that doesn't mean that the love is still not there. Like we still absolutely love talking about games of yesteryear yesterday. Wherever you sign is I think it is anyways you're here. I know we play them here and there but for the most part it's a time thing and we'll get into that later on but just I know you've not placed New Super Lucky's tale you really do have to play it. It's a very quick game. It's very fun. But just playing to these levels it'd be it just took me back in that's what good retro games are retro levels do for you.

Red:

Well, for sure. And that's like something that hit me I think when you first started talking about this, you know when we're kind of prepping for this and planning for this is like Super Mario Odyssey. Those sections of and I know it's weird to talk about Odyssey and retro gaming but you know, an odyssey those sections where you go to the 2d side scrolling, and they bring back some of those graphics from ancient ancient Mario I love that

Hick:

you get first game and not the third game or the second Why would you use a second game? I don't know.

Red:

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a whole different thing. But no like so just those segments like, I love how like you said, super Lucky's tale does like it opens up a whole world worth of like retro levels, but like just the way Odyssey.

Hick:

It's not the whole world, but it's like a third of it. Okay, I

Red:

gotcha, gotcha. But like the way Odyssey just incorporates it naturally into the regular 3d worlds, I thought was so well done. And he gave you that sense of nostalgia and that throwback like parts like going through like the new donk city festival. And almost that entire thing is like the side scrolling and you even get like the original Donkey Kong level. You know, just that kind of throwback in a modern game is just so much fun to experience. And it does make you want to go back and fire up those old games sometimes. And I do know every now and then I will get drunk. Shocking every now and then I get drunk.

Hick:

And that was what you were about to say after that was going to be the every now and then.

Red:

Right? But every now and then like you get you know, I'll get drunk and be like, Oh, man, that old game was amazing. I'm gonna bust out the we are bust out like I've got a like a knockoff Sega Genesis thing up in my closet. You know, it's just like, in play one of these old games. And usually the next morning you wake up you're like, Why the fuck did I do that? That was? Yeah, it was actually terrible looking up. Yep. Usually a headache talking Yes, like so like, I love when games, modern games do try to incorporate some of that retro feel to it. Because you know, that is the era of gaming that we grew up in, like, we grew up in the like, the late 80s, early 90s is like, right when like the NES, and then the SNPs were taking off. And so so many of our foundational gaming memories, go back to that. And it's just anytime you get that retro, it takes us back to being kid. And it really is fun. And you mentioned like, you know, this game and like that retro stuff is, uh, you know, some of the most fun you've had in a while. And I really do think that some of that is it just strikes that core? Yeah, with when we were kids, but one of the biggest reasons why other than those, you know, the pink and blue

Hick:

colors, which

Red:

by the way, those Miami Heat jerseys are Yes, they're awesome. I don't care what anybody says that. And when they do the court that way, it looks it looks awesome. But one of the but what really sticks out to us is the sound Yeah, like the sound of games back then. Like it was all like on the synthesizers this just really like low technology. But there's songs that still stick with us, you know, through today. So let's talk a little bit about kind of that retro music and sound what really jumps out to you. When you think about old games. And that music and sound? First

Hick:

of all, what jumps out is the actual games like you know, your Mario games, Zelda games, and those, you know, Zelda the overworld. We all know, it's been a ton of games. But back in those days, developers just had to get more creative with limited technology. And what made those sounds so special, because they are very simple sounds. But there's so miserable, obviously, like I said, when Mario and Zelda. And just like there's so I don't know, it's just crazy, that they took like this limited technology. And they were able to create that because nowadays, we have like, you know, symphonies and games. And like, you know, the soundtracks are very awesome for games nowadays. But we'll talk about simplicity later on. But those simple sounds just, they really stuck with you. And I don't know exactly how to go. Yeah, I don't know.

Red:

I think that's why they like, you know, I'm

Hick:

a big fan. I don't know, if you're trying to talk right there. But I'm still talking to kiddo and keep rolling. I'm a huge fan of synth wave. If you don't know about it, it's like, basically this music that people make nowadays. And there's a lot of mixes on YouTube and stuff. But I'm in love, it is instrumental. There's not any words in it. There are some that has words, but you know, a lot of games in this also the synth way. He uses a lot of synthesizers, which is, first of all something I just really, really love that sound. Now, not all games in those days, back in the early days, they can only use certain sounds, you know, because of the technology was a lot of them did use that. But just those synthesizer sound, that whole synth wave sound that goes back to the 80s and 90s games, and I still listen to today. And I think a lot of the reasons why I listened to it today is because it takes me back to the time when I'm playing video games, like you know, in the eight ladies in the early 90s. And I've said this, like you know, a lot of times like, I think mean you when we were born, we were born like what an 8385 I think we were so lucky, like, you know, for the time period that we were born in in relation to video gaming, because I think grown up like I had the Atari actually two, I think grown up with the Atari, the NES and the s&s like that was the best time to be alive as an A game because like I was always Okay, like you can still go back and play those games today. Whereas like, you know, spiced on the ps1 or the PS to, you know, hear about people going back and playing those games because those graphics look like shit.

Red:

So it was a weird challenging time for

Hick:

sure lucky that we were allowed during that time. And we got to experience the NDS and the SDS, which is really what I consider retro, I guess you could throw the Nintendo 64 in there, but always take any S and S NES and Sega Genesis, but, of course, the whole sad. I mean, I just loved the wholesale that time and a lot like that era, like, you know, in general. Yeah, a lot of sound. For me, being a gamer comes from video games. So what's your opinion on the whole retro sound going back to the 80s and 90s?

Red:

Well, so much of that, like music in general back then. And not just video game music was kind of like that, you know, you hear that style of 80s pop, you hear like 80s pop, like everything was these synthesizers, these really upbeat stuff. I mean, you think back like a movie, like, like Scarface, or something that like it was filled with this amazing 80s music. And I feel like the games back then did an excellent job of even though Yes, their technology was so much more limited than a movie or a TV show, because you're stuck with a little eight or 16 bit Carter's you couldn't do too much. But like they captured that pop sound of that era. So well. And I do think that like, it's so easy to heat. Like you could hear one of those and obviously, yeah, you know, people are the MDC especially has been like recapturing some of that, man. You just hear those music and you're like, Oh, yeah, that belongs in that era, even with like, you mentioned that limited technology they had to work with and they still came up with catchy, amazing tunes and innovative tunes that fit that time period. So well, because I mean, like I said, Scarface is like where I go for my 80s references. And that may not be the best, you know, source, whatever. I mean, it's a, you know, it's an opportunity movie. It's amazing, but, but like you hear that music and the soundtrack to it, and that has a very distinct time period style.

Hick:

What are you talking about, again? Scarface? Oh, Scarface. Okay, I didn't hear you say that. I thought that's the one you're talking about wasn't positive. So

Red:

at least at least I hope I said that I meant to. But anyway, I'm talking about scars. But like it had that music that Vin that era that pop up beat pop music. And I think that like the NES and the s&s in the Sega Genesis, for that matter, really? And I will talk a little bit less about the Sega Yeah, I think you and I were both Nintendo guy. So apologies to say way

Hick:

back then. So I never had a Genesis or a Sega Saturn. I believe you were in the same boat. Maybe?

Red:

Yeah, I got one of my parents bought me.

Hick:

At least a model for us. Hey, yeah, thank

Red:

goodness. I wish they bought me something else now. But shit. We're too grown up for that. But

Hick:

man,

Red:

I gotta keep twisting that knife while I

Hick:

already made the arts Stop, stop.

Red:

Yeah, but so like, I just loved how the music of those games fit the period. So well. And I'm really glad like you hit on how simple the jacks were. And that's where we're kind of talking over each other for just a second is it's like that simplicity is why they stick with us. I mean, you can sit here and whistle the Zelda overworld theme, you mark the original Mario World theme, because they were very simple, very catchy in it. But they played on a loop. Let's be honest, they played on a really continuous loop. And it got in your head. And even now 2025 years later for us, or maybe a few years longer than that. But you know, years and years later, we can still whistle the Mario Brothers theme, the Zelda overworld theme, because they were simple and catchy because shit, they didn't have the technology to do anything but simple, but it's something

Hick:

that they created like, you know, like nowadays, yeah, like a lot of times because I want to say that. The reason why I like the sound so much is because it fit the 80s and 90s

Red:

I don't it perfectly did, here's

Hick:

where I'm kind of a save, I can kind of be wrong, what I say, I don't like music really captures the time period that we're in now. But at the same time, there's a lot of games that you actually use music from now and like, you know, nowadays, so but this is one thing I don't like, like all those sounds, the developers create those sounds nowadays a lot. Like we still get music that's created for games, but for example, Forza Yeah. Like you know, which I don't think they really want to do their own soundtrack. But what they did six actually, but anyways, like a lot of times, like they just use music, like, you know, song license better. Yeah. And like, you know, I like that, but it's just kind of lazy, like, create your own sound for the game. And like, I really missed it. Because yes, we still get it with a lot of games nowadays. But there's also a lot of games where they just take songs that are out and music in the game and I missed that creativity. But you know, anyways, hearing amazing sound like you know, was a cool experience as a kid. But there's also a lot of other experiences that made retro gaming great for us. I kind of just wanna kick it to you here. And I'm going to actually ask you, what is what was one of your best experience is as a kid playing video games?

Red:

Well, I think and this is kind of, it's interesting. Back then we could you know, you could only get a couple of games a year. Yeah, because games were I mean games are more stilted. bucks back this, I mean, they they're 50 bucks back then. And you know, you're accounting on either your allowance, or your parents to buy you game. So for me, just that feeling of getting a new game was something you looked forward to so much. Yeah, you begged your parents, it was either your birthday or Christmas, you're asking for a game. So there may have been two or three times a year that you actually got a new game Unless, you know, unless you you know, some people come from different backgrounds, you may got more games more often, whatever. But for you and me, I feel like we were in the same boat. That anticipation of getting a new game, because let's be honest, back then you got a game and it's a new game, Super Nintendo game. They're relatively short. Yes, play that game over and over, and over and over for six months, eight months, until the time came to finally get a new game. You didn't have fucking steam sales back then filling up your back? Yes, yes.

Hick:

We had birthdays in June. So we actually got one over half a year ago. So that worked

Red:

out well, for both of us. It really did. But to me, just like that feeling of anticipation is something like we've kind of lost now. Because any time you could find a sale for a game, yeah, anywhere and just pick it up. And that's why we have backlogs that are stupid ridiculous now. And like even Yes, I was looking forward to obviously cyberpunk 2077 looking for like Star Wars squadrons. Last of Us, part two goes to Tsushima you know, Halo infinite, whatever, it does come out down the line, like yes, those are all games I'm looking forward to. But I'm not sitting there. Like, I'm not getting another game until those come out. Yeah, we can buy games, whoever the hell we want. We're in a fortunate situation like that. So it sounds like you said, or there's great sales. Yeah, I mean, we just had Black Friday. I mean, we have you know, steam sales every other week. PC gaming

Hick:

alone, it's just going to Summer Sale. And she's checking out some of those games but like, actually want to do you have anything else she wants to write there?

Red:

No, that was just like when you mentioned like, hey, what was your your biggest thing? Like, just the anticipation was so huge.

Hick:

I mean, for Christmas. I mean, and this is what, especially for me, because I know you buy physical games, but I'm mostly bad. Mostly, I buy all digital now. So like, I kind of lost that hope. You know, like, you get something for Christmas. You unwrap it. It's a game. And that was so much fun. And we're

Red:

blown away. Right?

Hick:

We have both experiences that we're going to talk about throughout right here. But I'm, I'm actually going to take it to where you probably don't think I'm going to take it. I'm going to take it to River Falls mall. And actually the arcade man like I mean, yeah, great experiences on the NES. In essence, yes, I'm going to talk about those. But I remember going to rear falls mall, and they had that awesome arcade in there, which is really one of the only arcades that was in that area. Because back in the 80s, we lived in the middle of nowhere. That's one reason but um, like, you know, arcades, they just they were expensive to run, because I believe a lot of times those machines broke down. Now, I like the arcades a lot, because let's put this way my quarter would go very, very quickly on those arcade machines, because you have to be really good or you got off there fast. But I just remember

Red:

to take your money. Yeah,

Hick:

all the sounds, and all the joysticks and the buttons, like, first of all rear falls mafia, like we talked about this before, if y'all don't know about is a moron, Indiana, check it out. Very, very close by level, it's not there anymore. It's you know, you know, both models are going nowadays are struggling a little bit, but I'm pretty sure that's where the Bass Pro is. Yeah, it is it is. But just back in those days, I mean, Sr rk, which is really the only arcade I went to, like, that was just a great experience. But you know, just really sitting down and like playing games without having responsibilities as an adult, like was enjoyable, like, you could sit there and why like this, I don't know. But I enjoyed sit on the floor, like, you know, by the TV, because you had to play close because of the wires. I think they were like six foot at the time. So they weren't nearly long. And like, a lot of memories are just there sit on the floor, you know, Brian, the NDS or an se NES game, and just playing for hours on end in like, yeah, you can go out and borrow the games, you want to lease we couldn't because we were younger. But at the same time, we didn't have all the responsibilities that we have as adults, we have more time that we like back then that we don't have as adults. And just like, you know, Derek, there is a great memory for me. But also man, and this is um, you know, I understand this, I contributed to this. But like, this is one thing that sucks in that was like all the gaming stores back in the day. Yeah, we still have like, you know, GameStop, which you all know, our opinions on GameStop. They're not very flattering. But back in the day, there was gaming stores everywhere. And you just walk in, you see these games all over the place. And here's one thing that they did great that a lot of places don't do anymore. I believe he talked about this extra Walmart is they had systems and TVs and their stores actually worked. They had the kiosk, the kiosk exactly like I'm like nowadays, you either don't have those or they don't work. I miss going into a store and playing a game and so I'm gonna kick it to you right here because I'm bleep you talked about doing this with your three brothers. I know that something that you missed

Red:

Oh, absolutely like not just like the going into the first I'll just everything about the physical games, I kind of miss now just to kind of piggyback on on what you were mentioning, like, just being able to walk into a game store and browse the aisles. Now you click on Steam and you scroll through computer window Africa, or, you know, the PlayStation Store or the Xbox store, you know, and here's looking at a screen. Yeah. Because that's what

Hick:

I do. Yeah, I

Red:

know Me, me to the BM, like, pick up the box off the shelf, and look at it and they unlocked.

Hick:

last case, you know how you said back in the day. So that's that way. Of course, those

Red:

like, Nintendo cartridge boxes were pretty huge back then. But, but you couldn't just block out the store. But like, I mean, I remember having that Walmart, they're close to our hometown. And that's what got like me and my brothers to get into no 64 they had a Mario Kart 64 set up. And every time the parents would go to the grocery, I'll be like, I'll be over there in the electronics section, playing the Nintendo 64. And it worked. You're absolutely right. It's not something where some little asshat came and broke it. Although, you know, back then I was the little asset. I was the young, you know, eight year old kid. Yeah. But I never broke it. But like that, just that experience of getting to try out games, and it's sold us on it's sold that like, yep, me and one of my brothers, we're gonna go win on this together and it was totally worth it. And you just don't get that anymore. Like I remember when we were like,

Hick:

who is the brother that was not hitting on it.

Red:

Okay, and he was older. So So me and my the brothers, it was closer to me and he we got

Hick:

together but

Red:

no, but like nowadays, like I remember when we were looking for the series x and the PlayStation five, and you're on Walmart's website, or you're on target's website. And they're like, all these stores say there's not like every now and then you would see a store that says there's one available to demo. Yeah, like there's one sitting, but it was very, very limited. And only a few locations. And like, that was a huge selling point back then.

Hick:

And you know,

Red:

we've mentioned you know, playing with the brothers playing with the siblings. I've talked about that on past episodes, like that ability to just sit there, you got three controllers plugged in with their wires you're trying not to get them across. It's like Ghostbusters don't cross the street, right. And like so we'd sit there and play Mario Kart GoldenEye once the 64 era came out, you know, just all those awesome multiplayer games. Or even if you're not playing multiplayer, you know, if you die, you hand the controller to the other person, you know, playing Mario, you'd lose a life the other person gets the roller, you know, all those aspects of like, the physical gaming. And also just back before there was that online multiplayer man, and I get it online multiplayer has made a ton of people, a lot of friends, it's kept friends together, when they move away and get older, I get that I support it. But something's lost. Yeah, other than just the little assholes screaming that they're gonna kill your mom or something on Xbox Live when they beat you. But you know, it's like something's lost when you're doing it online instead of like, they're with your sibling with your best friend, whatever it is. And so like, I everything that comes with owning a physical game is like a bit of a cherished memory. And I think that's part of why I still like getting physical games, especially as gifts because you know, the girlfriend knows I love video games. She knows what games I like. And she's very much like, I will get it for you care if it's a disc. I'm like, No, I enjoy opening that. I feel like that takes me back to my younger days. I do have to take one minor jab at gamestop right now you mentioned them and I can't let that slide without giving them an FAQ. The girlfriend went in there to buy me a game and she's like, they hassled me about signing up for a reward. Yeah. She's like, they like asked her and asked her ask her like trying to read off all these benefits and GameStop I get it that's like they have to it's their corporate mandate. And finally, she's like, I think my fucking boyfriend's got one. Here's his name. look him up. Yeah, yeah. So fuck you. GameStop for harassing my girlfriend. That's that's my jab at gamestop for right now. But I do you miss that feeling of physical games and game stores? Yeah, it's just not the same anymore. What are some other things though? about like, experiencing that as kids? I know. We've talked about the arcades. Yeah, the sound the physical. What else is there that really jumped out

Hick:

what kind of go back to your whole physical thing like I do digital now. But a lot of it's just like, I'm not a lazy person. But I'm a convenient, though, if I could just switch a game off in the dashboard, rather than going up and putting it in the actual system. Like, I'm all about that convenience, man. But another thing is like, you know, my three kids, they got my shipment. And this shit is all over the place. And I hate clutter. And so that's kind of why I've also gotten away from those physical games, because it's just more clutter. It's just something that takes up more space. But you know, may I do Miskin that and then also I kind of talked about, you talked about your siblings and like how you had all your experiences with them. Most of my experiences during that time were with my best friend. Yeah, at that. Oh, yeah. I talked to him a couple years, but I don't know what he's doing anymore. But um, a friend like me and him like he got another friend But me and Levi are the ones that played Video games the motion, we will just set that he kind of talked about switching off and stuff, we will play Mario we will not Zelda because he has only one person but um, he actually got me into going to the past. But I'm like, you know, we played sports games or whatever games that we're playing at the time and we just sit there and we would play for hours, especially during the winter. Like, you know, we take turns, or you play against each other Street Fighter Mortal Kombat, and, you know, great memories right there because, I mean, we played sports together. So we played outside a lot, but we also you know, love video games, like we had the best of both worlds. So, I mean, it's just, it's hard to explain. It's not hard to explain to people but just like I've kind of talked about I think that's the best air to grow up. In game you really can't talk to me like you know, we'll go to simplicity, you know, here and I'll actually know what I don't want to go to yet, but I'm like, oh, cuz I want to ask you about something right here. I'm gonna switch off that switch of topics but kind of go a different direction. Do you remember walking into toy we talked about gangsters? Do you remember walking into Toys R Us and just see we talked about kiosk they like forestation man did like freakin aisles not just like a cat or do they have freakin aisles of gangs man and just walk into Toys R Us de la toys but that was also video game heaven.

Red:

It really was I mean like Toys R Us was an amazing store. I mean you can just sing that stupid song from their freakin commercials you know I don't want to grow up toys are as good and it's such that they've pretty much not entirely disappeared there are there they

Hick:

kind of heard that they were trying to come back but then come back as a different brand and then they're Come come back as Toys R Us but I don't think really anything's happened or at least that I've heard

Red:

no i don't think like I haven't seen one in ages not here where

Hick:

we live but man they did shut down their period but then they were talking about coming back.

Red:

Oh, but you're absolutely right though because when you have an entire store dedicated to you know toys and kids stuff you can have aisles upon aisles worth of video game stuff because a I mean that gets expensive so they get a lot of money. But be it's like you know that's a huge part of a lot of childhoods you know and like, yeah, once you get past like the you know, the action figures and GI Joes you know, whatever the next natural transition is video games, I feel like and it's just like that's I loved walking into a store like Toys R Us. Yeah, we talked about the the GameStop and the video game oriented ones. But any of those big box stores, your Walmart's your targets your toys r us has had a massive selection of video games in that electronic section. And man that was always a mecca to walk into. And you're like there's so much and you're like you said there's kiosks there's cabinets, there's everything going on. So I do agree like walking into something like a Toys R Us was a great feeling. And there's one other thing you did kind of hit on a minute ago before we do move on. You mentioned like the going to the arcades. I love that arcade bars are becoming a thing now.

Hick:

I'm not. I really want to go.

Red:

Oh my god, it's been going on. It's been kind of coming for the last couple years. We have several right here in our town. I absolutely love it. Actually. I was in one just a couple weekends ago and you just walk in, and it's literally just all these arcade cabinets from the 80s and the 90s. And just games that I know we didn't have a lot of arcades like you mentioned, you mentioned River Falls. I remember playing the x men arcade game at the Georgetown drive in the O school right. And so like just walking into these arcade bars and you see these ancient games you see Donkey Kong Frogger you know all those games the sidescrolling is like your your your teenage mutant ninja turtles, you got the House of the Dead with the with the little light guns. Like the arcade bars becoming a big thing is so much fun. And it really really hits like a special nerve for people our age that grew up in gaming. Yeah, and yeah, we didn't have a lot of arcades. arcades weren't really our thing. But just be able to walk into this place now as an adult, buy a beer and then play the games for free is amazing. Like I absolutely love that arcade bars are becoming a big thing but that was that like is every

Hick:

arcade bar Yeah, like I really want to go. I don't know if it's good time to go right now. But I was hoping Dimmick situation gets figured out I'm definitely going to put that on my to do list cuz I had no excuse for why I will use I do have excuses. I won't get the hell out

Red:

yet kids in a while. Yeah,

Hick:

well, then where I work. I don't wanna stay where I'm working everything but that's your job one thing really quickly before we move on, and that's that we're playing games things you seemed really cool. We've talked about this before like walking over a wooden bridge that was overwater or seeing a waterfall or ramping something like those things, which is so cool back in the day. And is because stuff that we expect nowadays, and it's just it's really a bummer that we expect so much like you know, the stuff that was so cool back in the day. It's just like a given force now and we don't pray and that just, you know, we'll never get that back. But during that time period, we did have it and that was very cool. But you know, anyways, life was simple as a kid. We all know if your life is simpler. Hit us up behind the scenes, we won't know what you're doing right. But

Red:

you know, the season Oh, yeah,

Hick:

you know, life was simple as a kid. So are games, we kind of talked about simplicity like in retro games. And just we're not talking about difficulty here because he's games. No, most of them were difficult. But there are some simplicity concepts that we want to talk about in red, I will kick it to you right here. What made these games so simple?

Red:

This is going to be a little bit of a boring answer, I think. But to me, I mean, the simplicity really just comes down to the technology at the time. I mean, they really game developers back then, couldn't do much. I mean, you've got like an eight bit cartridge or a 16 bit cartridge, compared to now you get games that are 100, freaking gigs or bigger that we download. So back then, games had to be simple. And I don't mean, like we said, I don't mean simple in terms of difficulty, because games back then, could be frickin hard. But just in terms of the mechanics, and the graphics and the level design, they were not complex, you didn't have open world games, back in the 80s and 90s. I mean, the closest thing you had may have been something like A Link to the Past or one of the Final Fantasy games because they were bigger over worlds, I get that, but they weren't true open world games like you think of today. So it's the boring answer, but it's the answer that makes the most sense. Like the simplicity really just comes down to the technological limitations. And I do say there is a part of me that misses simple game controllers like I absolutely love the Xbox One and the Xbox One you know, the series x controllers a little hit or miss on the you know, the Dual Shock and then the, you know, the pro controller, but back then and the Nintendo era. You had a D pad and you had a B star. Yep. And certainly didn't do shit in your game. Except pause your game and save your game. So you had a like a to jump and be to shoot those were? Yeah, yeah, we're like one punches in one fell sorry

Hick:

for select. Oh, man, because slack didn't get a lot of love back in the day. It didn't do shit back in the day. Like, it'd be like a safe function for what Zelda nets it, basically.

Red:

But just you know, just the limitations of technology. But I do miss like, the controls being so simple nowadays. I feel like you got to go into that pause menu and look at the controls on games. You're like, oh, wow, oh, this is the controls when I'm walking. This is the controls when I'm, you know, driving a vehicle. This is the control. When I'm flying, you're like, and you can change them all, which is good. I like the flexibility. And I like the complexity of modern games. But there's something to be said for firing up a game. And you can figure out in 30 seconds, what every button does, because you have two buttons to choose. Yep. So you may actually jump into a pit or something when you were trying to run but it happens, you know, but to me like I do kind of miss that simplicity of game design read and think about games back then to everything was like just a side scroller game for the most part. I mean, you had like, you think of like the Mario games, of course, like, you know, Zelda was a little bit of an innovation, but it was still, you know, screen to screen to screen. Like games like, you know, Turtles in Time. Battletoads Double Dragon, they were just these side scrolling beat em up games. Like that was a huge genre back then it was in arcades, too. And that little bit of a side tangent man. This is my cheap plug for Streets of Rage four, which is on switch. PC and PlayStation fucking me and the girlfriend played the shit out of that game. So much fun, retro look, but with like modern graphics, but still like retro 2d amazing music like such a good throwback to just old side scrolling beat em up games. Anyway,

Hick:

so I heard you talking about this, but I never really looked into it. And then I was preparing for this podcast today. And I kept on seeing Streets of Rage and my man has been talking about this game for quite a while so I've got this game now read I'm having a little issue behind the scenes here. I buy a window and this son is poking right through this little like hole right towards my eye but I can't know because the microphones in front of me. So anyways, good. Cholesterol gaming. I can't I can't see the outline anymore because I'm freaking blinded. But um, here's what here's what simplicity like there's a lot of different simplicity points, but no DLC. No pen. No updates like you get a game nowadays. It's not the full game. No, I understand. I absolutely love gaming nowadays at the very end of the podcast we will talk about why we don't play retro games that much so obviously I love new games, but just get a game round the box and that's the game and that's the game you play all the way through. Yep, that right there. Yes, that is simply Oh yeah, but there's no bull there's still some bugs but not

Red:

get fixed. You play with the bugs? I mean, yeah,

Hick:

he did. He learned how to use the bugs to your advantage, which is what we call speed run. That goes into simplicity right there. And the reason we had this deep you know DLC patches bugs up in updates to fix those bugs is because games nowadays are more complex, which is the opposite of simplicity. That's what we're talking about here. But it's also the system's back then you can go get an SDS or an SDS, you get though that bitch off a building, and it will not get ridiculous. It'll still work like two storey building. The point is, those systems still work today, I can go get mine and plug him in and I can go right to playing a game. You don't plug in an Xbox for five years, like you are going to have to do all kinds of updates. You know, something's gonna screw up. You're gonna have a different network. Have you probably moved or got different networks since then? Like just that simplicity of being able to like start up a system in a game right away? Right there. Plug and Play. Yes, exactly. That is simplicity at its finest in red. How about no load towns? Man? I mean, damn, right there now. Now I know you don't hate his niche. I didn't need Xbox series x and everything. But back in the day, I absolutely love that. Um, you want to do anything else? You can once say, I think we hit on? No, sir. Our points was that Really? I

Red:

mean, you're absolutely right. The like the cartridge you bought, you plugged it in, you fired up. And you know, you may have had to blow in the cartridge once or twice to get it to work. Yeah, but then it worked. And you don't even hate the occasional bugs. But games were so simple back then you didn't really have that many bugs. I mean, yeah, speed runners, like you mentioned have been like finding bugs and exploiting them, which I think like, yeah, it blows my mind. It's unbelievable. Some of these speed runs, you see. But anyway, like, it really is just a plug and play aspect of gaming back then, like, I've got a 64 in my closet, I could pull it down right now fire it up, and it will, in 10 seconds, I get fire ups occurring at a time. Right now. I don't worry about downloads, patches updates. I do miss that shit. 100%. But that was my last thought. Where are you about to go?

Hick:

I didn't have anything after that. So I guess go to the transition now.

Red:

Well, that may be our worst transition. But no, like, I mean, we talked about like, it was simpler back then. But part of that, you know that simplicity also stems from the fact. You know, it wasn't simple for the developers. No, it was because nowadays, developers have so much experience and knowledge they can build upon. I mean, there's literally game engines out there that developers can buy off the shelf, to build their games, like Unreal Engine, obviously, the most popular one. But there's tons of engines out there who can buy it and create their own games. You didn't have that ability back then in the past. I mean, these people were stuck, literally creating this stuff from scratch, for the most part, these are the people laying the foundation for video games. So it really forced a level of originality back.

Hick:

Yes.

Red:

Because you didn't have all these trends that you see now. Every gaming company wasn't chasing the open world trend, or the battle royale trend, or whatever the current trend is back then people had to be original because there's was nothing to pull from? Is that something that you miss from gaming? I know there's still original concepts out there. But do you feel like we've lost a little bit of that?

Hick:

Oh, yeah, the creativity, I don't want to say it's gone. Because there are a lot of games out there now that are creative. But it wasn't like back in the day. Because back in the day, like you said, you didn't have anything to pull from. You had to be creative. You had to figure out a way to do things. And you talked about buying game engines. But you couldn't do that back in the day. I had to use you know what they had what they had, which is I don't know exactly. I don't know about all about game development by guessing. Right now coding, which I guess nowadays, it probably is a lot of coding, but you know, trying to stay there like you didn't have the resources that you have nowadays, but then like you gotta think about like the story, the boss battles weapons, like you know, moves, and we talked about music like you know, one being simple we didn't mention that in the last part. Well, we already mentioned it. A contribute the sound contribute to the originality because you couldn't just go buy a song you could put that in an S or an s&s game. Like you had to make like these little little synthesizer sounds and it's all you could do. So that was originality as best and then like said the story boss battles weapons moves, like you had to think about all that on your own. You didn't have anything to pull from from you couldn't pull anything from Atari, like a target that that was simplicity right there. Yeah. But um, you cannot pull anything from Atari. So there was so much originality because you had no other choice you right had to be creative. You had to think of Okay, not just build the game, not just the sound, not just how to make it work. But you Yeah, the stories weren't that great, but there was still you know, a story. The boss battles like you need to come up first with the characters is also the moves that they were going to have it then also um, your moves, not your but not only your boss's moves, and then also the games that have weapons, you have to think about what weapons were you going to have? And how are you going to use them? Where were you going to use them and who we're going to use them against? And you had to think about every single one of those things. Whereas today, there's been so many games out that you can pull concepts From all these games in, you're not mad to developers, because you really can't have much originality because like the Simpsons says, like, you know, everything's our No, that was South Park. They said, The Simpsons already did it. Everything in video games, I think, I don't know, like everything in video games is pretty much for the most part been done. So I get mad to developers for that, but just had that originality when every franchise that came out during that time was a new franchise. We're not building like, you know, you're not releasing your 17 Zelda game like it was. It was Moo it was just so exciting during that time. And I want you right here example. I'm hoping you play Starfox on the SDGs. But that right, there was one of the first 3d games ever. And so then I take notes originality,

Red:

it and that's one thing I love when you look back at old games is like, the originality really did come from these developers found.

Hick:

I feel like this has become a verticality for us, right.

Red:

So many times new verticality, but like no, as, like technology slowly advanced back then, like it forced these people to to be original and to innovate. And because you think about you think about the Atari, you had Pong, or you had asteroids, or it's one screen, your whole game takes place on one screen, basically, you know, and then you got to the NES. And you had, or you had like Donkey Kong, in the arcades, we had different levels and things were different, every different level, then you got to the NES. And you had this side scrolling, where each level was a very was a long, like, well, not very long by today's standards, of course, but like a long flow. And then like I said, you get to the 3d games, your Starfox on s&s your, you know, like doom and Wolfenstein on PC like that first person shooter, and then the jump from that from there, it's just been leaps and bounds. But like back then, they were literally inventing genres and styles on the fly. like Zelda is the original Legend of Zelda, I would probably consider the first open world game. Yes, you might die if you go somewhere. But you know, everywhere right from the get go, which was a great young coming full circle and Breath of the Wild came out. But you know, like, literally, you know, Doom and Wolfenstein invented, you know, first person shooters, Mario and Donkey Kong invented platformers, you know, to platformers. Like, you had to innovate back then. because there weren't genres. Now everything gets put into a bucket, because that's, you know, it's a mature industry. Now, the industry has been around since the late 70s, early 80s. And you know, there's not a lot of ideas when you hear us talk about a game like ghosts of Tsushima. Which spoiler alert, we're probably going to talk about all next episode. Yeah. But like, it's not so much that goes to Shima innovates, it makes it well, but it just refines and perfects and brings together a lot of things that already existed, that makes it a very great game. Back then we didn't have that there was no foundation and other games to to bring that influence in from so I'm, it blows my mind, what these people came up with back then with the technology they have. And then they continued to really push the envelope. And like I said, invent completely new yz industry is as big as it is.

Hick:

Yeah, I mean, it's all because of them. But you know, something that's new and original, original, it's always more memorable, which you know, that definitely right there contributes to nostalgia, as we're talking about these games, like, you know, we've mentioned a lot of points of why we'd love these games. Rather, obviously, you got to talk about the main one, you know, quickly, because we don't have much time left. But understand, like, I'm like, we have as much time as we want. But we try to use a certain length, but like t we, we talked about experiences and everything with the game, but really as hard. Why we love these games so much is the nostalgia aspect. And really, that's all it is, is taking you back to your childhood and your experiences, as we talked about, as you know, as a kid, and like just those times, they were so fun, man. I mean, I enjoy things like when they're like, you know, kids, whether it's like you know, us, Nas, any s&s or whether you started with the PlayStation one, the PlayStation two, like you always go with every Township, and just these games like that eight bit and 16 bit graphics, like those are just just timeless. And that's why you see many indie developers using that style. Like I said, you don't see any developers using a ps1 or a PS to graphic means those graphics look like crap nowadays, but those 16 bit sprites, like those are just timeless. And I think that's why we can still go back and play these games today is because really of the art style and how he went about them. And also, like, you know, I think it actually helps that they were mostly 2d games in 3d games, because the 3d games look like crap nowadays. I mean, I want to talk to you right here soon, but like, just, I mean, it's just such great memories. And I think you all can you hear the passion coming through in this episode, but just going back and talking about these games when we were children, like, there's just so many great memories.

Red:

Well, there really are and at the end of the day, that's like, why These retro gaming is like a very passionate topic. Yes, even though we don't and we'll get to this, even though it's saturated, is saturated now, and we don't play a lot of it now, which we'll talk about here in just a sec, I promise. But like, you know, it does feel good to go back and look and talk about these games, because they were like, part of our foundational years as kids growing up not just foundational in terms of as a gamer, but you know, it was part of our lives back then it was an important part of our lives, whether it was playing with friends, playing with your siblings, or just killing time after school, you know, trying to avoid doing homework, whatever games were a big part of our lives back then. And like you said, the eight and 16 bit style, it is timeless, it really is because I feel like the later generations suffer from that because as as companies and developers strive to make more and more realistic features, you really hit that Like uncanny valley in some, like it's close to being realistic, but just far enough off that it's kind of off putting a little bit. And you know, we're kind of getting over that hurdle now that like, you know, the technology is so far advanced, but there was probably a good 15 years there, like you talked about from the PlayStation through, you know, probably the PlayStation four, the Xbox 360, or the Xbox One, where it's like, they came really close to making it look photorealistic. But it's just enough off that it fucks with

Hick:

your head. Yeah.

Red:

So to me those old graphics that you know, it is timeless that old music is timeless, and I'm glad to see indie developers are trying to recapture that plus, I mean, it's cheaper for them to develop that than it is to develop a trooper game. But but it's it is a big industry right now. So I'm a big fan of it. That nostalgia factor is strong. It does harken back to our our younger days. Like said playing with our friends playing with our family

Hick:

is so cool that we can play these games like on a Virtual Console like the end yesterday in the ES FPS classic. I don't believe there's one for Sega Genesis. I'm not really confident on that. But if there's not, they need to get on emulators. And we kind of talked about the tendo you need to release a streaming device with your entire library one day we'll kill it. But

Red:

the way I would get my 10 bucks a month.

Hick:

easily. They keep on raising like Netflix, you know how this works. He's talked about how these games means so much to us. But we don't mean read. We don't actually play a lot richer games these days. We'll kind of go into this discussion right here. Why we don't play them that much. And a lot of the reason for me is they're too damn hard. Now there's a lot of these indie games ain't like you know, Ori and the Blind force will never play well, the width. Because already the blind force was too hard to unravel. Celeste like, um, you know, but a lot of those games, they were very difficult. And so that's one reason why I don't go back and play those games. Right? How about you give some reasons why you don't play retro games so much. These modern games take so much time?

Red:

Yeah, modern games. I mean, it you it's hard to sit down with a 10 hour game anymore. Like because they don't make that many of them. Everything is like padded out to be 30 or 40 hours or if it's an open world game. Sorry. Excuse me. You're talking 100 hours. 150 hours? Like I mean, I've been excited. I've been like playing Gears of War four and five, you know, just a to try out the new Xbox series x Of course. Yeah. And then but then be it's like they're also quick games, like the single player campaign for those is like eight to 10 hours. Yeah. And which graded for a retro game would be an eternity. But for a modern game now. It's like, eight to 10 hours seems like a blink of an eye. I can beat that in a week. Yes. And we just modern

Hick:

weekends. Yeah, you don't have kids? Do you? Good there. Yeah,

Red:

no, it's like, it just takes so much time to play our modern games. But let's also be honest, modern games are awesome, too. But there are a lot of amazing gibble a games that we love to play every few months, we're getting one that we're like, I was excited for this. I was excited for this. I was excited for this. So we just don't have the time to go back and play old games. Like I said, Every now and then I'll get a few beers in me and think, Oh, I want to go fire up the old we hit up the Virtual Console and play you know, Final Fantasy for whatever, I'll play for a few hours and the next day I'd be like, Why the fuck did I do?

Hick:

Yeah, for me, like I always do that. But do not play it for like no longer than 30 minutes. I play for like 30 minutes. I'm like, Okay, I got my fix. I'm good. Do you need it? Yeah, and those are games that say system is not as good now I know things like the 3ds restore points. And there's also some other ways that they have improved the safe systems but there's still a couple games out there where the safe system is not so great. And we've kind of talked about how we don't have time I'm not gonna go back in reduce stuff like I will bash again, it was like a new game nowadays. If you made me go back and do anything new super Lucky's tale, you were great at keeping my progress throughout the entire game, even when I died. And I love you for that. That's why, you know, I could gave you better than an 8.8 but you know, like we kind of talked about right here. There are games are just so complex, and just so big. They like you know, they're just a little bit better. But I'm also like in the last thing I wanna say is there's not always the best way of playing them. Yeah, on the switch. We do have the wolf. Some of was to have Nintendo Switch online. Yeah, you could buy a damn next gen console, which you still can't pay $20 for a yearly subscription. You can't play some NTS and some s&s games on that. But um, if they're not on that, like we're talking about going back to the Wii U going back to the 3ds, you might not always have access to those. So still like it mean they aren't you can't play them in certain places, but still not the easiest things unless they're on the Nintendo Switch. Because I mean, I still If I were you out, but I'm guessing there's a lot people that when they got the Nintendo Switch there, we you, it probably went out back in the corner or in the closet, wherever you put a system that filled that bad shoe box

Red:

in the closet. Yeah, that's

Hick:

some The reason I read we all agree on, like, I agree with a lot of the reasons that you use. But that's why we don't play them that much. But um, this seems to be Oh, times, yes, this episode, I knew it was gonna be a lot of fun. And I think you all saw the passion that we have. And even though we don't play retro games that much, it doesn't mean that we haven't lost that love of retro games, and that we don't like we're very appreciative of our childhood, and what these game developers gave us. So you know, mostly Nintendo here. Thank you know, for what you gave us as a child. But I'm read. Do you have any final thoughts you want? Throw out?

Red:

No, no, I mean, that's really it. It's like, it's fun to look back on these games, because they were such important parts of our lives back then. And we may not go back and replay them now. But we never forget him. We never forget him at the end of the day, and they really are absolutely timeless. So with that being said, we'll go ahead and wrap up this episode, we went over by a few minutes, we apologize there. So all links for this here will be down in the description for this podcast, support us on Patreon or PayPal if you want to. If you can't be sure to leave us a rating or review. We always appreciate five star ratings. Even if you don't think we're five star quality.

Hick:

Maybe you'll take like LA

Red:

and we also have we have a couple of websites we have two guys playing zelda.com tgp z gaming.com that are a great merchandise for gaming and for Zelda on those two sites. We may earn a commission on because there are affiliate websites. But how about you go ahead and talk about where we are on YouTube and social media.

Hick:

And we got two YouTube channels we got one for two guys playing Zelda which has over 10,000 subscribers don't do much on that channel anymore. But we used to do a lot back in the day have a lot of videos. tg PC gaming is basically just where we put our podcasts nowadays. You can find us on Discord. We always recommend like continue the conversation with us about gaming our Discord. We're always talking Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo PC, and they also have some other topics that we go into on there. So if we tell you to join anything, follow us Subscribe, whatever, go check our discount or discount go check out our Discord. So join that and continue the conversation with us off of the podcast. And they're also on social media, Twitter, and Instagram at Busted Buttons pc but man This was a blast. Yes, it was fun talking retro gaming. Me and Red have been talking about the behind the scenes. It's time to talk ghosts of Tsushima so alien next episode goes to Tsushima all episode long. It's going to be a ton of fun and we will see you on that next episode.

New Super Lucky's Tale Retro Levels
Retro Music & Sound
Gaming Experiences as Kids
Simplicity
Originality
Nostalgia
Why We Don't Play Many Retro Games
Wrap Up