{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1.44,"endTime":4.05,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1.44,"endTime":4.05,"body":"Humans+Tech Podcast. I'm Aaron"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":4.05,"endTime":5.64,"body":"Randall and this is Amy"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":4.05,"endTime":5.64,"body":"Phillips."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":5.67,"endTime":6.12,"body":"Hi."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":6.45,"endTime":8.67,"body":"And today we are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":6.45,"endTime":8.67,"body":"so excited to be talking to the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":8.67,"endTime":11.85,"body":"incredible Sarah Wells, Sarah's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":8.67,"endTime":11.85,"body":"most recently been technical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":11.85,"endTime":14.1,"body":"director for engineering"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":11.85,"endTime":14.1,"body":"enablement at the Financial"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":14.1,"endTime":17.46,"body":"Times, where she spent the last"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":14.1,"endTime":17.46,"body":"11 years leading tech teams as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":17.46,"endTime":19.89,"body":"well as defining the tech"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":17.46,"endTime":19.89,"body":"strategy and product roadmap"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":19.92,"endTime":23.34,"body":"inside the FT. Sarah's also a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":19.92,"endTime":23.34,"body":"frequent conference speaker"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":23.4,"endTime":26.28,"body":"presenting on topics ranging"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":23.4,"endTime":26.28,"body":"from microservices to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":26.28,"endTime":28.86,"body":"engineering productivity, Sarah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":26.28,"endTime":28.86,"body":"welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":29.64,"endTime":32.31,"body":"Hi, there, it's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":29.64,"endTime":32.31,"body":"pleasure to be here."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":32.73,"endTime":34.47,"body":"Awesome. So great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":32.73,"endTime":34.47,"body":"to have you. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":34.47,"endTime":38.13,"body":"things that we'd like to do for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":34.47,"endTime":38.13,"body":"all of our Humans+Tech guests is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":38.13,"endTime":41.1,"body":"to draw a doodle of them. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":38.13,"endTime":41.1,"body":"I'd like to show you yours and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":41.1,"endTime":42.69,"body":"kind of get your thoughts and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":41.1,"endTime":42.69,"body":"feedback now."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":43.319,"endTime":46.439,"body":"Okay, go ahead. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":43.319,"endTime":46.439,"body":"have been I've been looking at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":46.439,"endTime":48.269,"body":"the other ones and wondering"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":46.439,"endTime":48.269,"body":"what this is gonna look like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":48.329,"endTime":48.959,"body":"Oh, boy."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":50.19,"endTime":51.09,"body":"Probably very"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":50.19,"endTime":51.09,"body":"similar."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":52.41,"endTime":55.71,"body":"Looking here for"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":52.41,"endTime":55.71,"body":"your, your critique."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":57.49,"endTime":63.94,"body":"I think I look like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":57.49,"endTime":63.94,"body":"Meri Williams, I think there's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":63.94,"endTime":67.63,"body":"thing about like, dark hair and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":63.94,"endTime":67.63,"body":"glasses where you just always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":67.63,"endTime":71.68,"body":"end up looking very similar."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":67.63,"endTime":71.68,"body":"It's the most distinctive thing."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":73.1,"endTime":75.32,"body":"That's probably,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":73.1,"endTime":75.32,"body":"yeah, they're all pretty, pretty"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":75.32,"endTime":77.21,"body":"generic all pretty much the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":75.32,"endTime":77.21,"body":"same. But yeah, no, I see that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":77.21,"endTime":81.92,"body":"I see that as well actually"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":77.21,"endTime":81.92,"body":"nice. Well, moving on to the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":81.92,"endTime":84.89,"body":"important stuff in so you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":81.92,"endTime":84.89,"body":"as I mentioned in that intro,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":85.25,"endTime":88.61,"body":"you have worked at the Financial"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":85.25,"endTime":88.61,"body":"Times for a long time, 11 years,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":88.61,"endTime":91.73,"body":"and that's a really long time to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":88.61,"endTime":91.73,"body":"work in one place. What were"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":91.76,"endTime":93.17,"body":"some of your highlights?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":93.63,"endTime":96.517,"body":"Ah, well, it is it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":93.63,"endTime":96.517,"body":"was a long time it what's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":96.583,"endTime":100.587,"body":"interesting about that is I did"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":96.583,"endTime":100.587,"body":"several different jobs there,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":100.653,"endTime":104.722,"body":"which I think is what kept me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":100.653,"endTime":104.722,"body":"there for so long. So I probably"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":104.788,"endTime":108.857,"body":"did, did about four different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":104.788,"endTime":108.857,"body":"jobs, all for about three years."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":108.923,"endTime":112.598,"body":"Some of my highlights Well, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":108.923,"endTime":112.598,"body":"mean, I joined as a senior"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":112.664,"endTime":116.668,"body":"developer, and when I, when I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":112.664,"endTime":116.668,"body":"joined the Financial Times, I'd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":116.733,"endTime":120.803,"body":"been working in IT for about 15"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":116.733,"endTime":120.803,"body":"years, I've pretty much been a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":120.869,"endTime":125.135,"body":"senior developer the whole time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":120.869,"endTime":125.135,"body":"So I, I was a career changer. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":125.201,"endTime":129.073,"body":"when I started in IT I very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":125.201,"endTime":129.073,"body":"quickly started running a team,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":129.139,"endTime":133.405,"body":"because I was really experienced"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":129.139,"endTime":133.405,"body":"in terms of that kind of side of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":133.471,"endTime":137.606,"body":"work, I think. And so I've been,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":133.471,"endTime":137.606,"body":"if you look at my career, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":137.671,"endTime":141.61,"body":"like this very sort of steady"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":137.671,"endTime":141.61,"body":"line of I do this job, I run a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":141.675,"endTime":145.351,"body":"tech lead. So the FT was the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":141.675,"endTime":145.351,"body":"first place where I had the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":145.417,"endTime":148.83,"body":"opportunity, and people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":145.417,"endTime":148.83,"body":"encouraged me to step up. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":148.895,"endTime":152.505,"body":"it's a real big change from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":148.895,"endTime":152.505,"body":"being a senior developer to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":152.571,"endTime":156.772,"body":"being a technical director. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":152.571,"endTime":156.772,"body":"at every point, people would say"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":156.837,"endTime":160.775,"body":"to me, you know, you can, if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":156.837,"endTime":160.775,"body":"you're interested in doing this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":160.841,"endTime":165.042,"body":"next thing, you definitely could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":160.841,"endTime":165.042,"body":"do it. And then the other thing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":165.107,"endTime":169.046,"body":"is that there'd be a problem"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":165.107,"endTime":169.046,"body":"that I wanted to solve. And the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":169.111,"endTime":173.378,"body":"best way to do it was to, was to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":169.111,"endTime":173.378,"body":"step into a role that allowed me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":173.443,"endTime":176.791,"body":"to, to have more kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":173.443,"endTime":176.791,"body":"ownership of it. So so the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":176.856,"endTime":180.86,"body":"highlight probably is a complete"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":176.856,"endTime":180.86,"body":"different, like career path,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":180.926,"endTime":184.995,"body":"because I'd never really thought"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":180.926,"endTime":184.995,"body":"before I joined the FT that I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":185.061,"endTime":188.802,"body":"could see myself being a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":185.061,"endTime":188.802,"body":"technical director. Beyond that,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":188.868,"endTime":192.74,"body":"actually, there's, if you want,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":188.868,"endTime":192.74,"body":"basically, when you leave a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":192.806,"endTime":196.613,"body":"company, and the FT is a,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":192.806,"endTime":196.613,"body":"because it's a newspaper, one of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":196.679,"endTime":200.42,"body":"the really nice things that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":196.679,"endTime":200.42,"body":"sometimes happens to you when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":200.485,"endTime":204.095,"body":"you leave, particularly if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":200.485,"endTime":204.095,"body":"you've been there for a long"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":204.161,"endTime":208.362,"body":"time is that they create a front"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":204.161,"endTime":208.362,"body":"page for you. Which is like and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":208.427,"endTime":212.3,"body":"I was really super lucky because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":208.427,"endTime":212.3,"body":"they even printed it on FT"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":212.366,"endTime":216.304,"body":"paper. So I've got this, like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":212.366,"endTime":216.304,"body":"page of the FT that that, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":216.369,"endTime":220.308,"body":"people, you know, told stories"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":216.369,"endTime":220.308,"body":"and mentioned things that I'd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":220.373,"endTime":224.443,"body":"done. And a lot of them is like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":220.373,"endTime":224.443,"body":"pointing out silly things. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":224.508,"endTime":228.315,"body":"you do kind of go Oh, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":224.508,"endTime":228.315,"body":"one thing would be the FT's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":228.381,"endTime":232.319,"body":"internal tech conference called"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":228.381,"endTime":232.319,"body":"Engine Room. And that's been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":232.385,"endTime":236.388,"body":"going I think, for seven years"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":232.385,"endTime":236.388,"body":"now. And I helped set it up in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":236.454,"endTime":240.589,"body":"the first place helped run the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":236.454,"endTime":240.589,"body":"first one, I've run two or three"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":240.655,"endTime":244.724,"body":"of them. It's very established"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":240.655,"endTime":244.724,"body":"part of the engineering culture"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":244.79,"endTime":249.056,"body":"there. It's changed from year to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":244.79,"endTime":249.056,"body":"year. But I particularly enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":249.122,"endTime":253.257,"body":"it in 2020, and 2021. Because we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":249.122,"endTime":253.257,"body":"basically had to go online and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":253.323,"endTime":257.589,"body":"really made a like made the most"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":253.323,"endTime":257.589,"body":"of that. You know I felt like we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":257.655,"endTime":261.855,"body":"managed to gain from the ability"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":257.655,"endTime":261.855,"body":"from moving away from having to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":261.921,"endTime":265.597,"body":"book the conference suite to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":261.921,"endTime":265.597,"body":"being able to do it online."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":265.662,"endTime":269.732,"body":"There would be lots of people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":265.662,"endTime":269.732,"body":"talking, there would be loads of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":269.797,"endTime":273.801,"body":"chat in the sidebar, in any you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":269.797,"endTime":273.801,"body":"know, in meet, it would be be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":273.867,"endTime":277.805,"body":"great, but it's something that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":273.867,"endTime":277.805,"body":"some that's helped provide an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":277.871,"endTime":281.874,"body":"opportunity for people to share"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":277.871,"endTime":281.874,"body":"what they know and to try out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":281.94,"endTime":285.353,"body":"being on a panel, try out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":281.94,"endTime":285.353,"body":"speaking. It helps set the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":285.419,"endTime":289.226,"body":"culture of the department and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":285.419,"endTime":289.226,"body":"it's something that I always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":289.291,"endTime":292.836,"body":"think is a really powerful,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":289.291,"endTime":292.836,"body":"powerful thing. So I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":292.901,"endTime":297.102,"body":"that's something I'd consider to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":292.901,"endTime":297.102,"body":"be part of the legacy for me at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":297.168,"endTime":300.975,"body":"the FT is that I mean there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":297.168,"endTime":300.975,"body":"tons of other things I could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":301.04,"endTime":305.175,"body":"talk about, it's like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":301.04,"endTime":305.175,"body":"I feel like I can look back at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":305.241,"endTime":309.245,"body":"what I was doing when I was at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":305.241,"endTime":309.245,"body":"the FT and see, see an impact,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":309.31,"endTime":311.28,"body":"which is just really exciting."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":312.03,"endTime":315.03,"body":"I love that. You"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":312.03,"endTime":315.03,"body":"mentioned there as well, at the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":315.03,"endTime":318.57,"body":"beginning about having people in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":315.03,"endTime":318.57,"body":"the FT encourage you to step up."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":318.87,"endTime":321.6,"body":"Is it fair to say, you had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":318.87,"endTime":321.6,"body":"advocates or incredible managers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":321.6,"endTime":324.39,"body":"that are really supportive and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":321.6,"endTime":324.39,"body":"helping you to sort of develop"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":324.39,"endTime":324.87,"body":"and grow."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":326.61,"endTime":329.798,"body":"Yes, yes. Yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":326.61,"endTime":329.798,"body":"mean, yes. But also beyond that,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":329.862,"endTime":333.944,"body":"as well, because I think there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":329.862,"endTime":333.944,"body":"something really powerful about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":334.008,"endTime":337.58,"body":"someone senior who's not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":334.008,"endTime":337.58,"body":"actually day to day responsible"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":337.643,"endTime":341.343,"body":"for for you as a manager,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":337.643,"endTime":341.343,"body":"saying, oh, you know, you could,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":341.406,"endTime":345.297,"body":"you could do this. So, so one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":341.406,"endTime":345.297,"body":"kind of, I think a real sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":345.361,"endTime":348.869,"body":"impact for me was when Cait"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":345.361,"endTime":348.869,"body":"O'Riordan, who was the CIO,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":348.932,"endTime":352.887,"body":"approached me actually at the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":348.932,"endTime":352.887,"body":"Christmas party and said, I want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":352.95,"endTime":356.586,"body":"to mentor you, we're gonna have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":352.95,"endTime":356.586,"body":"a mentoring discussion in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":356.65,"endTime":360.476,"body":"January. Okay, we actually had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":356.65,"endTime":360.476,"body":"only had one at the time. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":360.54,"endTime":364.367,"body":"she basically, it was really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":360.54,"endTime":364.367,"body":"succinct. She just said, I want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":364.431,"endTime":368.002,"body":"you to know that if you want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":364.431,"endTime":368.002,"body":"be a CTO, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":368.066,"endTime":371.893,"body":"something you could do if if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":368.066,"endTime":371.893,"body":"want to, and that there are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":371.957,"endTime":375.911,"body":"different types of CTOs. So if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":371.957,"endTime":375.911,"body":"you were CTO, you wouldn't have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":375.975,"endTime":379.419,"body":"to look like our current CTO."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":375.975,"endTime":379.419,"body":"And at the time, I was a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":379.483,"endTime":383.564,"body":"principal engineer. So it's two"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":379.483,"endTime":383.564,"body":"steps from there, tech director,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":383.628,"endTime":387.264,"body":"CTO. So, actually to have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":383.628,"endTime":387.264,"body":"someone say, not just you could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":387.327,"endTime":391.409,"body":"do the next job up, but actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":387.327,"endTime":391.409,"body":"to say you could do the job two"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":391.473,"endTime":395.491,"body":"above that. I couldn't believe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":391.473,"endTime":395.491,"body":"the impact it had on me. Because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":395.555,"endTime":399.637,"body":"it wasn't something that I even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":395.555,"endTime":399.637,"body":"remotely had thought about. And,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":399.701,"endTime":403.719,"body":"actually, there was quite a nice"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":399.701,"endTime":403.719,"body":"culture, I think, at the FT of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":403.783,"endTime":407.546,"body":"people, sponsoring people. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":403.783,"endTime":407.546,"body":"I, probably about five years"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":407.609,"endTime":411.117,"body":"ago, I got sent on a, an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":407.609,"endTime":411.117,"body":"internal program called Talent"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":411.181,"endTime":414.88,"body":"Acceleration program. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":411.181,"endTime":414.88,"body":"basically, they identified women"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":414.944,"endTime":418.707,"body":"who were about to step into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":414.944,"endTime":418.707,"body":"leadership positions across the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":418.771,"endTime":422.597,"body":"FT, it wasn't a tech specific"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":418.771,"endTime":422.597,"body":"thing. And we got sent on some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":422.661,"endTime":426.297,"body":"training about things like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":422.661,"endTime":426.297,"body":"building your brand, how to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":426.36,"endTime":430.379,"body":"resilient. And one of them was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":426.36,"endTime":430.379,"body":"about sponsorship and mentoring."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":430.442,"endTime":434.397,"body":"They talked about that. And it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":430.442,"endTime":434.397,"body":"that kind of really important"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":434.46,"endTime":438.223,"body":"difference between the two."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":434.46,"endTime":438.223,"body":"Because you know, people always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":438.287,"endTime":441.923,"body":"talk about mentoring. And Lara"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":438.287,"endTime":441.923,"body":"Hogan says, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":441.986,"endTime":445.494,"body":"people are over, women"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":441.986,"endTime":445.494,"body":"particularly, are over mentored,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":445.558,"endTime":449.64,"body":"and under sponsored, it's really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":445.558,"endTime":449.64,"body":"easy to say I'm going to mentor"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":449.704,"endTime":453.594,"body":"you. But actually, the thing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":449.704,"endTime":453.594,"body":"that matters is, does someone go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":453.658,"endTime":457.485,"body":"into a room and say Sarah could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":453.658,"endTime":457.485,"body":"do that? And particularly do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":457.549,"endTime":461.248,"body":"they say Sarah could do that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":457.549,"endTime":461.248,"body":"when every other person who's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":461.312,"endTime":464.947,"body":"ever done it looks different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":461.312,"endTime":464.947,"body":"from me. And that definitely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":465.011,"endTime":468.965,"body":"happened to me, at the FT. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":465.011,"endTime":468.965,"body":"actually, after I had been done"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":469.029,"endTime":473.175,"body":"this training course, I realized"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":469.029,"endTime":473.175,"body":"that I did have a sponsor, quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":473.238,"endTime":477.193,"body":"accidentally, and you don't go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":473.238,"endTime":477.193,"body":"and ask for a sponsor, you kind"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":477.256,"endTime":480.956,"body":"of attract a sponsor, and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":477.256,"endTime":480.956,"body":"sponsor sponsors you because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":481.019,"endTime":484.655,"body":"they can see that you can do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":481.019,"endTime":484.655,"body":"something, they can see that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":484.719,"endTime":488.099,"body":"you're going to deliver"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":484.719,"endTime":488.099,"body":"something that they need that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":488.163,"endTime":492.181,"body":"you know that they are betting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":488.163,"endTime":492.181,"body":"on your ability to do something."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":492.245,"endTime":496.199,"body":"When that sponsor left the FT, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":492.245,"endTime":496.199,"body":"consciously thought who is my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":496.263,"endTime":500.026,"body":"sponsor? Now? I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":496.263,"endTime":500.026,"body":"that's something I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":500.089,"endTime":503.406,"body":"really important is to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":500.089,"endTime":503.406,"body":"understand, who is the person"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":503.47,"endTime":507.488,"body":"who is in a position to give you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":503.47,"endTime":507.488,"body":"opportunities? And and do they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":507.552,"endTime":511.315,"body":"understand what you can do and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":507.552,"endTime":511.315,"body":"what you want to do? Because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":511.378,"endTime":515.333,"body":"because I think we all kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":511.378,"endTime":515.333,"body":"would love that our managers or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":515.396,"endTime":519.287,"body":"our leaders would recognize our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":515.396,"endTime":519.287,"body":"innate brilliance and give us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":519.351,"endTime":523.241,"body":"some opportunity. But I know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":519.351,"endTime":523.241,"body":"that like if someone says to me,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":523.305,"endTime":527.323,"body":"Oh, I'd like to get someone to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":523.305,"endTime":527.323,"body":"to speak at this conference have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":527.387,"endTime":531.214,"body":"you got anyone, I'm far more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":527.387,"endTime":531.214,"body":"likely to have the name come to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":531.278,"endTime":535.296,"body":"mind of someone who said to me,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":531.278,"endTime":535.296,"body":"I'd really like to speak, could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":535.359,"endTime":539.314,"body":"you help me out with that? So I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":535.359,"endTime":539.314,"body":"think it's really important to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":539.378,"endTime":542.949,"body":"think about making sure that the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":539.378,"endTime":542.949,"body":"people who can give you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":543.013,"endTime":546.33,"body":"opportunities, understand what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":543.013,"endTime":546.33,"body":"you're interested in."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":547.62,"endTime":549.57,"body":"How did you go"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":547.62,"endTime":549.57,"body":"about doing that? Because that"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":549.57,"endTime":553.32,"body":"feels like I mean, it's so like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":549.57,"endTime":553.32,"body":"it sounds so obvious, but like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":553.41,"endTime":557.04,"body":"yeah, you kind of mentioned"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":553.41,"endTime":557.04,"body":"like, you don't really go and"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":557.04,"endTime":560.64,"body":"seek a sponsor, you attract a"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":557.04,"endTime":560.64,"body":"sponsor. So how did you go about"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":560.64,"endTime":563.67,"body":"sort of setting up the new"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":560.64,"endTime":563.67,"body":"sponsor and making sure they"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":563.67,"endTime":564.96,"body":"knew what you wanted to do?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":565.2,"endTime":567.705,"body":"Well it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":565.2,"endTime":567.705,"body":"actually so the person who had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":567.765,"endTime":571.225,"body":"been sponsoring me was the CTO"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":567.765,"endTime":571.225,"body":"at the time. When he left I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":571.285,"endTime":575.162,"body":"thought, there was a director of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":571.285,"endTime":575.162,"body":"engineering, he wasn't my actual"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":575.222,"endTime":578.98,"body":"manager. My manager was the head"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":575.222,"endTime":578.98,"body":"of software development, but I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":579.04,"endTime":582.44,"body":"was a principal engineer and I,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":579.04,"endTime":582.44,"body":"I basically, I had a good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":582.5,"endTime":586.378,"body":"relationship with him - his name"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":582.5,"endTime":586.378,"body":"is Rob Shilston, he's fantastic."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":586.437,"endTime":590.196,"body":"He was really influential person"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":586.437,"endTime":590.196,"body":"for me in my career. Rob and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":590.256,"endTime":593.775,"body":"had a great relationship anyway,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":590.256,"endTime":593.775,"body":"but we didn't have kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":593.835,"endTime":597.474,"body":"managerial relationship, but I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":593.835,"endTime":597.474,"body":"actually asked him if we could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":597.534,"endTime":601.053,"body":"meet monthly, because I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":597.534,"endTime":601.053,"body":"like, I'm a Principal Engineer."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":601.113,"endTime":604.573,"body":"I should understand what the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":601.113,"endTime":604.573,"body":"director of engineering needs"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":604.633,"endTime":608.153,"body":"from me. So then I had that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":604.633,"endTime":608.153,"body":"regular thing anyway. And so so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":608.212,"endTime":611.911,"body":"when I was thinking, Well, Rob"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":608.212,"endTime":611.911,"body":"is clearly the person who's who"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":611.971,"endTime":615.431,"body":"can now sponsor me, we already"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":611.971,"endTime":615.431,"body":"had that. So I think it's I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":615.49,"endTime":618.891,"body":"think the thing that was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":615.49,"endTime":618.891,"body":"surprising to me about that was,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":618.951,"endTime":622.649,"body":"its the first time I'd actively"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":618.951,"endTime":622.649,"body":"asked for something like that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":622.709,"endTime":625.99,"body":"And you, you sort of, I think,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":622.709,"endTime":625.99,"body":"and I think particularly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":626.05,"endTime":629.808,"body":"probably, as a woman, you're a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":626.05,"endTime":629.808,"body":"little less likely to say, Can I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":629.868,"endTime":633.447,"body":"have this thing. But around that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":629.868,"endTime":633.447,"body":"time, I realized that quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":633.507,"endTime":636.907,"body":"often you can ask for things,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":633.507,"endTime":636.907,"body":"and it can work out. So for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":636.967,"endTime":640.666,"body":"example, I wasn't an architect."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":636.967,"endTime":640.666,"body":"There was an architect's forum"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":640.725,"endTime":644.365,"body":"at the FT at the time. And lots"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":640.725,"endTime":644.365,"body":"of things got discussed there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":644.424,"endTime":648.183,"body":"that I was really interested in."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":644.424,"endTime":648.183,"body":"And at some point, I just went"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":648.242,"endTime":652.001,"body":"to the director of architecture"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":648.242,"endTime":652.001,"body":"and said, Can I start coming to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":652.06,"endTime":655.938,"body":"the forum? And he just said, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":652.06,"endTime":655.938,"body":"yeah. And it's just like, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":655.998,"endTime":659.577,"body":"God, it's been annoying me for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":655.998,"endTime":659.577,"body":"ages that I'm not involved in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":659.637,"endTime":663.276,"body":"those decisions. And all I had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":659.637,"endTime":663.276,"body":"to do was say, can I come? And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":663.336,"endTime":666.438,"body":"maybe he'd have said, No, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":663.336,"endTime":666.438,"body":"then I'd have had some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":666.497,"endTime":670.077,"body":"explanation of why and that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":666.497,"endTime":670.077,"body":"would have would have helped. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":670.136,"endTime":673.835,"body":"I do think it's worth asking for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":670.136,"endTime":673.835,"body":"things that probably aren't a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":673.895,"endTime":677.713,"body":"massive commitment for someone."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":673.895,"endTime":677.713,"body":"And if you're chatting to people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":677.773,"endTime":680.04,"body":"anyway, that's good. Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":680.4,"endTime":683.73,"body":"How has that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":680.4,"endTime":683.73,"body":"influenced how you think about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":683.88,"endTime":685.11,"body":"sponsoring others?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":686.28,"endTime":689.124,"body":"I, I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":686.28,"endTime":689.124,"body":"really conscious that I try to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":689.187,"endTime":692.979,"body":"encourage people to think about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":689.187,"endTime":692.979,"body":"who sponsors them. And to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":693.043,"endTime":696.835,"body":"clear about what it is that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":693.043,"endTime":696.835,"body":"they're looking for. Definitely,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":696.898,"endTime":699.616,"body":"and I'm actually more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":696.898,"endTime":699.616,"body":"interested, really in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":699.679,"endTime":703.409,"body":"sponsorship than mentoring."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":699.679,"endTime":703.409,"body":"Partly because the kind of role"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":703.472,"endTime":707.201,"body":"that I had at the FT I had the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":703.472,"endTime":707.201,"body":"opportunity to, to have, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":707.264,"endTime":710.994,"body":"know, to put people into into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":707.264,"endTime":710.994,"body":"places where they would learn"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":711.057,"endTime":715.039,"body":"something new or get or get some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":711.057,"endTime":715.039,"body":"new experience. And I think, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":715.102,"endTime":718.326,"body":"mean, I do mentor people as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":715.102,"endTime":718.326,"body":"well, I'm not I'm never"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":718.389,"endTime":722.371,"body":"convinced that how good I am as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":718.389,"endTime":722.371,"body":"a mentor. And I think there's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":722.434,"endTime":725.91,"body":"lot of overlap between"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":722.434,"endTime":725.91,"body":"mentoring, coaching, etc. What I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":725.974,"endTime":729.892,"body":"know I can do is kind of sponsor"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":725.974,"endTime":729.892,"body":"people and talk to them about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":729.956,"endTime":733.116,"body":"what they're what they're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":729.956,"endTime":733.116,"body":"interested in, in doing."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":733.179,"endTime":736.782,"body":"Although I think if you spoke to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":733.179,"endTime":736.782,"body":"a lot of people who I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":736.845,"endTime":740.132,"body":"mentored or sponsored, they'd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":736.845,"endTime":740.132,"body":"say, Sarah's answer to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":740.195,"endTime":743.925,"body":"everything is you should start"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":740.195,"endTime":743.925,"body":"talking. I know it's not the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":743.988,"endTime":747.78,"body":"answer for everybody, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":743.988,"endTime":747.78,"body":"it's, you know, like, it's one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":747.843,"endTime":751.636,"body":"of those things, that it can be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":747.843,"endTime":751.636,"body":"one of the things people are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":751.699,"endTime":755.428,"body":"most scared about standing up"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":751.699,"endTime":755.428,"body":"and talking in public. But if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":755.491,"endTime":759.41,"body":"you are someone who can, who can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":755.491,"endTime":759.41,"body":"find a way to communicate, if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":759.473,"endTime":762.95,"body":"it's not talking, you know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":759.473,"endTime":762.95,"body":"writing is exactly the same."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":763.013,"endTime":766.869,"body":"It's like there's so much to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":763.013,"endTime":766.869,"body":"gain from being able to put your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":766.932,"endTime":770.156,"body":"thoughts in order and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":766.932,"endTime":770.156,"body":"communicate them. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":770.219,"endTime":774.201,"body":"think that I realized when I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":770.219,"endTime":774.201,"body":"more junior how, how much of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":774.264,"endTime":778.309,"body":"skill it is that's useful in, in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":774.264,"endTime":778.309,"body":"work as well as kind of outside"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":778.372,"endTime":782.291,"body":"but also how it helps you build"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":778.372,"endTime":782.291,"body":"a network. It helps you get to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":782.355,"endTime":785.957,"body":"know lots of people who can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":782.355,"endTime":785.957,"body":"answer a question for you and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":786.021,"endTime":789.876,"body":"save you so much time. Like when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":786.021,"endTime":789.876,"body":"the FT would be trying to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":789.939,"endTime":793.605,"body":"something new. It's amazing if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":789.939,"endTime":793.605,"body":"you can go and find someone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":793.669,"endTime":797.651,"body":"who's already done it and say,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":793.669,"endTime":797.651,"body":"Well, how did you introduce this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":797.714,"endTime":801.57,"body":"into your company? Any tips on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":797.714,"endTime":801.57,"body":"how we can not get this wrong?"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":802.8,"endTime":806.76,"body":"Yeah, it's so"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":802.8,"endTime":806.76,"body":"important, isn't it? Wow, I have"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":806.76,"endTime":813.45,"body":"so many follow up questions. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":806.76,"endTime":813.45,"body":"how about maybe? So I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":813.45,"endTime":816.12,"body":"curious, actually, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":813.45,"endTime":816.12,"body":"So, you know, you did move"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":816.12,"endTime":819.69,"body":"through a lot of roles at the FT"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":816.12,"endTime":819.69,"body":"and I'm really curious about how"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":819.69,"endTime":823.65,"body":"did you find that like how what"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":819.69,"endTime":823.65,"body":"was it actually like to sort of,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":823.8,"endTime":827.4,"body":"to end up being a director, like"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":823.8,"endTime":827.4,"body":"compared to having previously"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":827.4,"endTime":828.18,"body":"been an engineer?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":829.62,"endTime":832.811,"body":"I, I didn't feel,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":829.62,"endTime":832.811,"body":"they always felt like, it always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":832.874,"endTime":836.895,"body":"felt like the move was sensible."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":832.874,"endTime":836.895,"body":"So So I was a senior engineer,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":836.959,"endTime":840.533,"body":"and then the architect on the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":836.959,"endTime":840.533,"body":"project, I got promoted to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":840.597,"endTime":844.426,"body":"principal engineer, then the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":840.597,"endTime":844.426,"body":"architect left the company. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":844.49,"endTime":848.191,"body":"I was having a conversation"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":844.49,"endTime":848.191,"body":"about who was going to replace"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":848.255,"endTime":852.34,"body":"him to lead the project. And and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":848.255,"endTime":852.34,"body":"I just remember thinking, Well,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":852.404,"endTime":856.552,"body":"I don't know if it should be me,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":852.404,"endTime":856.552,"body":"but I really don't want it to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":856.616,"endTime":860.509,"body":"someone else that's going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":856.616,"endTime":860.509,"body":"come in and we're six weeks away"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":860.573,"endTime":864.147,"body":"from launch. I don't want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":860.573,"endTime":864.147,"body":"someone to come in and go, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":864.21,"endTime":867.721,"body":"we should change our our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":864.21,"endTime":867.721,"body":"approach right now. That would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":867.784,"endTime":871.486,"body":"be really, really bad. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":867.784,"endTime":871.486,"body":"kind of found a useful thing,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":871.55,"endTime":875.634,"body":"which was that I just said, I'd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":871.55,"endTime":875.634,"body":"like to be considered. I think I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":875.698,"endTime":879.846,"body":"wouldn't have gone I should have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":875.698,"endTime":879.846,"body":"this job. But I was able to sort"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":879.91,"endTime":883.101,"body":"of say I'd like to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":879.91,"endTime":883.101,"body":"interviewed for it. And then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":883.165,"endTime":886.739,"body":"once I'm in the processes, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":883.165,"endTime":886.739,"body":"kind of get excited about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":886.803,"endTime":889.675,"body":"everything and a bit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":886.803,"endTime":889.675,"body":"competitive. The move to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":889.739,"endTime":893.632,"body":"technical director, I was pretty"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":889.739,"endTime":893.632,"body":"lucky I think which was, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":893.696,"endTime":897.716,"body":"kind of assuming a lot of stuff"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":893.696,"endTime":897.716,"body":"here, I've never actually asked"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":897.78,"endTime":901.801,"body":"but the CTO at the time. There"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":897.78,"endTime":901.801,"body":"was a director of operations who"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":901.865,"endTime":905.566,"body":"had just written a proposal for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":901.865,"endTime":905.566,"body":"how we would handle out of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":905.63,"endTime":909.651,"body":"hours, support for all the new"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":905.63,"endTime":909.651,"body":"systems we'd recently built. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":909.715,"endTime":912.714,"body":"we'd kind of moved to a far"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":909.715,"endTime":912.714,"body":"more. So it was all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":912.778,"endTime":916.607,"body":"microservices, it was much more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":912.778,"endTime":916.607,"body":"you build it, you run it, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":916.671,"endTime":920.5,"body":"were trying to work out how do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":916.671,"endTime":920.5,"body":"we have developers doing some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":920.564,"endTime":924.074,"body":"level of support for these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":920.564,"endTime":924.074,"body":"systems, because they're too"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":924.138,"endTime":928.095,"body":"complicated. There's too many"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":924.138,"endTime":928.095,"body":"different parts, compared to our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":928.159,"endTime":931.669,"body":"old stack. That was literally"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":928.159,"endTime":931.669,"body":"everything was running in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":931.733,"endTime":935.371,"body":"Tomcat, with Apache in front of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":931.733,"endTime":935.371,"body":"it. I had so many bits of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":935.434,"endTime":939.136,"body":"feedback on the proposal,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":935.434,"endTime":939.136,"body":"because we'd been doing this for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":939.2,"endTime":943.348,"body":"a couple of a couple of years in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":939.2,"endTime":943.348,"body":"my team, that I ended up writing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":943.412,"endTime":947.05,"body":"a counter proposal because I had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":943.412,"endTime":947.05,"body":"that thing where you put"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":947.114,"endTime":950.815,"body":"comments in a Google Doc and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":947.114,"endTime":950.815,"body":"actually the comments are now"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":950.879,"endTime":954.644,"body":"pages down below. So I just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":950.879,"endTime":954.644,"body":"wrote a counter proposal. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":954.708,"endTime":958.538,"body":"didn't know that the director of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":954.708,"endTime":958.538,"body":"operations was was going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":958.601,"endTime":961.41,"body":"leave. But I think I kind of, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":958.601,"endTime":961.41,"body":"kind of like"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":961.41,"endTime":962.19,"body":"because of the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":961.41,"endTime":962.19,"body":"comments?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":962.19,"endTime":963.09,"body":"Yeah, because of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":962.19,"endTime":963.09,"body":"the comments"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":963.09,"endTime":965.575,"body":"no, no, no, what I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":963.09,"endTime":965.575,"body":"think happened is the CTO"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":965.632,"endTime":969.247,"body":"thought, well, we've got someone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":965.632,"endTime":969.247,"body":"internal, who's actually really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":969.304,"endTime":972.637,"body":"deeply interested in some of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":969.304,"endTime":972.637,"body":"this, some of these areas, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":972.694,"endTime":976.14,"body":"it felt like I'd kind of said,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":972.694,"endTime":976.14,"body":"Oh, no, but I think this, this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":976.196,"endTime":979.586,"body":"and this, and so you know, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":976.196,"endTime":979.586,"body":"really wanted to apply and, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":979.642,"endTime":983.032,"body":"see if I could do it. And as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":979.642,"endTime":983.032,"body":"tech director role, it was it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":983.089,"endTime":986.365,"body":"was really perfect, because it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":983.089,"endTime":986.365,"body":"was a small group, it there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":986.422,"endTime":989.924,"body":"weren't that many, it wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":986.422,"endTime":989.924,"body":"massive change in the number of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":989.981,"endTime":993.597,"body":"people that I would be managing,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":989.981,"endTime":993.597,"body":"or anything like that, although"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":993.653,"endTime":996.647,"body":"I did take over the role and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":993.653,"endTime":996.647,"body":"then go, Oh, I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":996.704,"endTime":999.472,"body":"responsible for business"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":996.704,"endTime":999.472,"body":"continuity. Well, that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":999.529,"endTime":1002.749,"body":"interesting. But I don't even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":999.529,"endTime":1002.749,"body":"know what that is. And then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1002.805,"endTime":1006.082,"body":"engineering enablement, which"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1002.805,"endTime":1006.082,"body":"was the last thing I did, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1006.138,"endTime":1009.641,"body":"was, again, it was one of these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1006.138,"endTime":1009.641,"body":"things where you're looking at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1009.698,"endTime":1013.087,"body":"how the group is structured, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1009.698,"endTime":1013.087,"body":"you have opinions about oh,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1013.144,"endTime":1016.759,"body":"well, you know, if we could move"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1013.144,"endTime":1016.759,"body":"some teams around it, we'd have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1016.816,"endTime":1019.697,"body":"some we'd have a definite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1016.816,"endTime":1019.697,"body":"everyone in this group is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1019.754,"endTime":1022.522,"body":"focused on engineers as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1019.754,"endTime":1022.522,"body":"customers. So it's really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1022.578,"endTime":1026.081,"body":"interesting when you can see,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1022.578,"endTime":1026.081,"body":"yeah, it's seeing that there's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1026.137,"endTime":1029.697,"body":"problem. And if you can just do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1026.137,"endTime":1029.697,"body":"this and get into the place you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1029.753,"endTime":1033.312,"body":"can, you can deal with it. I did"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1029.753,"endTime":1033.312,"body":"actually, one of my colleagues"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1033.369,"endTime":1036.871,"body":"at the FT, I was talking to her"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1033.369,"endTime":1036.871,"body":"about another role, because at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1036.928,"endTime":1040.318,"body":"one point, I got feedback that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1036.928,"endTime":1040.318,"body":"maybe I needed to move into a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1040.374,"endTime":1043.538,"body":"tech director role that got me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1040.374,"endTime":1043.538,"body":"more exposure to business"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1043.594,"endTime":1046.984,"body":"stakeholders. So I was talking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1043.594,"endTime":1046.984,"body":"to someone about one of those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1047.04,"endTime":1050.6,"body":"roles. And she said, \"You turned"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1047.04,"endTime":1050.6,"body":"up to ask me about it. And you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1050.656,"endTime":1053.989,"body":"just started with what's wrong?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1050.656,"endTime":1053.989,"body":"What needs fixing?\" And you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1054.046,"endTime":1057.323,"body":"never asked me what was good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1054.046,"endTime":1057.323,"body":"about it. I was like, Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1057.379,"endTime":1060.995,"body":"think I'm a problem solver. I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1057.379,"endTime":1060.995,"body":"interested in, I'm interested in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1061.051,"endTime":1062.69,"body":"what's what we needed to fix."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1064.88,"endTime":1068.45,"body":"I'm fascinated by"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1064.88,"endTime":1068.45,"body":"the fact that the FT was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1068.45,"endTime":1072.47,"body":"founded, like, all the way back"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1068.45,"endTime":1072.47,"body":"in 1888. And like your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1072.74,"endTime":1077.36,"body":"organization's been around for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1072.74,"endTime":1077.36,"body":"such a long time. And what role"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1077.39,"endTime":1079.58,"body":"today does tech played in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1077.39,"endTime":1079.58,"body":"organizations that has existed"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1079.58,"endTime":1082.85,"body":"long before websites and apps"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1079.58,"endTime":1082.85,"body":"were even a thing?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1083.96,"endTime":1087.524,"body":"Oh, well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1083.96,"endTime":1087.524,"body":"this is a very kind of tech, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1087.596,"endTime":1091.66,"body":"going to give you the tech"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1087.596,"endTime":1091.66,"body":"answer. If you were to talk to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1091.731,"endTime":1095.938,"body":"editorial. I mean, if you spoke"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1091.731,"endTime":1095.938,"body":"to the business, generally,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1096.009,"endTime":1100.429,"body":"editorial are the core of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1096.009,"endTime":1100.429,"body":"FT. That's what, that's what the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1100.501,"endTime":1104.779,"body":"FT does, like we tell, do the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1100.501,"endTime":1104.779,"body":"news. But over the time that I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1104.85,"endTime":1108.842,"body":"was at the FT, you know, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1104.85,"endTime":1108.842,"body":"starting to realize that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1108.914,"endTime":1113.263,"body":"technology is really important"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1108.914,"endTime":1113.263,"body":"in being able to tell in being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1113.334,"endTime":1117.897,"body":"able to tell news stories, and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1113.334,"endTime":1117.897,"body":"kind of hope that we managed to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1117.969,"endTime":1121.961,"body":"move people from the idea that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1117.969,"endTime":1121.961,"body":"technology is just a cost"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1122.033,"endTime":1126.025,"body":"center, to the idea that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1122.033,"endTime":1126.025,"body":"technology actually can provide"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1126.097,"endTime":1130.588,"body":"value and be be something that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1126.097,"endTime":1130.588,"body":"allows you to, you know, to make"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1130.66,"endTime":1135.08,"body":"the business more successful."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1130.66,"endTime":1135.08,"body":"And that was things like having,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1135.151,"endTime":1139.002,"body":"having teams that technology"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1135.151,"endTime":1139.002,"body":"teams sat in the newsroom"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1139.073,"endTime":1142.78,"body":"working with editorial,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1139.073,"endTime":1142.78,"body":"building, building tools. An"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1142.852,"endTime":1147.486,"body":"early example was a thing called"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1142.852,"endTime":1147.486,"body":"Chart Doctor. That meant that if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1147.557,"endTime":1151.479,"body":"you had a if you had a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1147.557,"endTime":1151.479,"body":"spreadsheet as a journalist, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1151.55,"endTime":1155.899,"body":"could create an a good FT chart"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1151.55,"endTime":1155.899,"body":"to put in your story. And you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1155.97,"endTime":1160.462,"body":"didn't have to go and find the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1155.97,"endTime":1160.462,"body":"team that created charts and get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1160.534,"endTime":1165.168,"body":"them to make it for you. You can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1160.534,"endTime":1165.168,"body":"make it yourself. If you look at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1165.239,"endTime":1169.303,"body":"the look at all the stuff around"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1165.239,"endTime":1169.303,"body":"the Coronavirus that the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1169.374,"endTime":1173.866,"body":"Financial Times published, their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1169.374,"endTime":1173.866,"body":"data, their charts is just the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1173.938,"endTime":1178.287,"body":"visualization is just absolutely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1173.938,"endTime":1178.287,"body":"excellent. That's enabled by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1178.358,"endTime":1182.208,"body":"very, very tech literate"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1178.358,"endTime":1182.208,"body":"journalists and technologists"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1182.279,"endTime":1186.771,"body":"working closely alongside them."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1182.279,"endTime":1186.771,"body":"But there's it's obviously what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1186.842,"endTime":1190.978,"body":"it's obviously wider than that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1186.842,"endTime":1190.978,"body":"But I think that there's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1191.049,"endTime":1195.327,"body":"there's a recognition that you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1191.049,"endTime":1195.327,"body":"solve. You basically make the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1195.398,"endTime":1199.106,"body":"business work by using"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1195.398,"endTime":1199.106,"body":"technology by having a strong"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1199.177,"endTime":1200.96,"body":"product strategy as well,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1201.71,"endTime":1204.11,"body":"and how to how do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1201.71,"endTime":1204.11,"body":"journalists get involved in in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1204.11,"endTime":1206.69,"body":"kind of influencing what you do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1204.11,"endTime":1206.69,"body":"build, how do they get? How does"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1206.69,"endTime":1208.61,"body":"their voice get represented in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1206.69,"endTime":1208.61,"body":"the product strategy?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1209.9,"endTime":1212.877,"body":"Ah, so this is not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1209.9,"endTime":1212.877,"body":"my this is really not my area,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1212.938,"endTime":1216.888,"body":"because I've consistently worked"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1212.938,"endTime":1216.888,"body":"a kind of a few removes from the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1216.949,"endTime":1220.231,"body":"business, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1216.949,"endTime":1220.231,"body":"building the content platform"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1220.292,"endTime":1223.573,"body":"and APIs, and then doing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1220.292,"endTime":1223.573,"body":"engineering enablement, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1223.634,"endTime":1227.098,"body":"effectively, I'm sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1223.634,"endTime":1227.098,"body":"supporting all of the all of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1227.159,"endTime":1230.866,"body":"teams. But in general, there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1227.159,"endTime":1230.866,"body":"are, there are boards related to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1230.927,"endTime":1234.513,"body":"particular parts of our product"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1230.927,"endTime":1234.513,"body":"strategy, like our mission,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1234.573,"endTime":1238.341,"body":"mission control, I think they've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1234.573,"endTime":1238.341,"body":"been called. And they involve"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1238.402,"endTime":1242.231,"body":"people from editorial and other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1238.402,"endTime":1242.231,"body":"commercial areas as well, along"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1242.291,"endTime":1245.816,"body":"with tech leadership, so that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1242.291,"endTime":1245.816,"body":"they are working together to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1245.877,"endTime":1249.706,"body":"talk about the product roadmap"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1245.877,"endTime":1249.706,"body":"to make decisions about what the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1249.767,"endTime":1253.291,"body":"priorities are, with the idea"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1249.767,"endTime":1253.291,"body":"being that if that group all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1253.352,"endTime":1257.181,"body":"agree, then you know, you don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1253.352,"endTime":1257.181,"body":"have that thing where marketing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1257.242,"endTime":1260.888,"body":"would like you to build this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1257.242,"endTime":1260.888,"body":"thing. And editorial would like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1260.949,"endTime":1264.777,"body":"you to build something else, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1260.949,"endTime":1264.777,"body":"you're stuck in the middle. If"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1264.838,"endTime":1268.545,"body":"that discussion happens with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1264.838,"endTime":1268.545,"body":"everyone in the room first, then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1268.606,"endTime":1272.435,"body":"hopefully, you're able to say,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1268.606,"endTime":1272.435,"body":"but we all agreed that the first"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1272.496,"endTime":1275.838,"body":"thing we were going to do was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1272.496,"endTime":1275.838,"body":"this, this thing? I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1275.899,"endTime":1279.485,"body":"certainly, it felt to me, like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1275.899,"endTime":1279.485,"body":"we worked a lot more closely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1279.545,"endTime":1283.374,"body":"with people from other parts of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1279.545,"endTime":1283.374,"body":"the business by the time I left"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1283.435,"endTime":1285.38,"body":"than when I when I first joined."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1285.8,"endTime":1288.44,"body":"Hmm, it's really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1285.8,"endTime":1288.44,"body":"interesting. I just love the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1288.62,"endTime":1291.23,"body":"fact that there, there are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1288.62,"endTime":1291.23,"body":"industries where I've worked at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1291.23,"endTime":1293.51,"body":"so many different tech"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1291.23,"endTime":1293.51,"body":"companies, where developers are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1293.51,"endTime":1295.91,"body":"kind of the superstars, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1293.51,"endTime":1295.91,"body":"know, the special team that does"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1295.91,"endTime":1298.34,"body":"all of this amazing work. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1295.91,"endTime":1298.34,"body":"actually, it's so kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1298.34,"endTime":1301.22,"body":"refreshing to, like, hear about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1298.34,"endTime":1301.22,"body":"the FT and think about other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1301.22,"endTime":1304.13,"body":"organizations were actually, as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1301.22,"endTime":1304.13,"body":"you said, like the editorial"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1304.13,"endTime":1307.67,"body":"team are cool. Like they're the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1304.13,"endTime":1307.67,"body":"superstars. Not not the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1307.67,"endTime":1309.53,"body":"developers in this organization,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1307.67,"endTime":1309.53,"body":"which is kind of an interesting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1309.53,"endTime":1310.07,"body":"dynamic."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1311.0,"endTime":1313.838,"body":"It is it is it is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1311.0,"endTime":1313.838,"body":"very different from from tech,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1313.897,"endTime":1317.505,"body":"it's very interesting. So one of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1313.897,"endTime":1317.505,"body":"one of the things that I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1317.564,"endTime":1320.639,"body":"involved with was the, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1317.564,"endTime":1320.639,"body":"response to the pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1320.698,"endTime":1324.246,"body":"because it started off as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1320.698,"endTime":1324.246,"body":"business continuity issue, which"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1324.305,"endTime":1327.794,"body":"was in February 2020, thinking,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1324.305,"endTime":1327.794,"body":"we're probably all gonna be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1327.853,"endTime":1331.343,"body":"working from home in a month's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1327.853,"endTime":1331.343,"body":"time, what can we do to make"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1331.402,"endTime":1335.068,"body":"sure we can succeed with that?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1331.402,"endTime":1335.068,"body":"And then after that, it was how"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1335.127,"endTime":1338.735,"body":"do we, you know, are we coming"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1335.127,"endTime":1338.735,"body":"back? What are we going to do?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1338.794,"endTime":1342.165,"body":"What's really interesting is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1338.794,"endTime":1342.165,"body":"that the tech team, the tech"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1342.224,"endTime":1345.417,"body":"department feel quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1342.224,"endTime":1345.417,"body":"differently about quite a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1345.476,"endTime":1348.847,"body":"these things from other parts of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1345.476,"endTime":1348.847,"body":"the business. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1348.906,"endTime":1352.454,"body":"challenge, because, because,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1348.906,"endTime":1352.454,"body":"because actually, for people in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1352.513,"endTime":1356.121,"body":"the tech team at the Financial"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1352.513,"endTime":1356.121,"body":"Times, if we left the FT, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1356.18,"endTime":1359.728,"body":"not necessarily the case that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1356.18,"endTime":1359.728,"body":"we're going to work in another"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1359.787,"endTime":1363.276,"body":"newspaper organization. Whereas,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1359.787,"endTime":1363.276,"body":"you know, if you work as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1363.335,"endTime":1366.943,"body":"journalist at the FT, the place"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1363.335,"endTime":1366.943,"body":"you're going to go to next is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1367.002,"endTime":1370.432,"body":"likely to be a newspaper or some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1367.002,"endTime":1370.432,"body":"other journalism thing as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1370.491,"endTime":1373.566,"body":"anything else. So you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1370.491,"endTime":1373.566,"body":"competing against different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1373.625,"endTime":1377.292,"body":"against different markets. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1373.625,"endTime":1377.292,"body":"whereas you know, in journalism,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1377.351,"endTime":1381.076,"body":"you might, the FT might win out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1377.351,"endTime":1381.076,"body":"because we're not making people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1381.136,"endTime":1384.447,"body":"come back to the office five"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1381.136,"endTime":1384.447,"body":"days a week and and say the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1384.506,"endTime":1388.173,"body":"telegraph is, with tech, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1384.506,"endTime":1388.173,"body":"also competing against all the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1388.232,"endTime":1391.898,"body":"companies that have decided that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1388.232,"endTime":1391.898,"body":"they're perfectly happy being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1391.958,"endTime":1395.506,"body":"remote only. So I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1391.958,"endTime":1395.506,"body":"really interesting. Because you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1395.565,"endTime":1398.877,"body":"are competing against companies"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1395.565,"endTime":1398.877,"body":"where developers are the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1398.936,"endTime":1402.425,"body":"rockstar, where product or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1398.936,"endTime":1402.425,"body":"product is king and products not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1402.484,"endTime":1405.973,"body":"It's not going to be the, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1402.484,"endTime":1405.973,"body":"know, the, the rockstar in an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1406.032,"endTime":1409.64,"body":"organization that isn't a tech"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1406.032,"endTime":1409.64,"body":"focused organization, I think."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1410.09,"endTime":1411.11,"body":"really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1410.09,"endTime":1411.11,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1411.17,"endTime":1412.7,"body":"And maybe that"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1411.17,"endTime":1412.7,"body":"gives us a nice sort of"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1413.24,"endTime":1416.3,"body":"transition into actually"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1413.24,"endTime":1416.3,"body":"engineering enablement. Because"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1416.3,"endTime":1420.08,"body":"one thing, and I know you've"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1416.3,"endTime":1420.08,"body":"kind of mentioned is the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1420.08,"endTime":1423.38,"body":"importance of the golden path."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1420.08,"endTime":1423.38,"body":"And this idea of like building a"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1423.38,"endTime":1426.62,"body":"path that people actually want"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1423.38,"endTime":1426.62,"body":"to follow. And, not like, they"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1426.77,"endTime":1429.74,"body":"have to follow it, but actually,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1426.77,"endTime":1429.74,"body":"they choose to. And I guess,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1429.74,"endTime":1433.46,"body":"like, it sounds like, certainly"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1429.74,"endTime":1433.46,"body":"an interesting one, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1433.52,"endTime":1436.1,"body":"kind of interested in the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1433.52,"endTime":1436.1,"body":"balance of the must be some"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1436.1,"endTime":1439.34,"body":"golden path that it's you want"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1436.1,"endTime":1439.34,"body":"to follow because you're at the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1439.34,"endTime":1442.37,"body":"FT, but also some golden path"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1439.34,"endTime":1442.37,"body":"you want to follow because"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1442.37,"endTime":1445.94,"body":"you're a developer and actually,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1442.37,"endTime":1445.94,"body":"this is what the the cool, the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1445.94,"endTime":1449.96,"body":"cool tech is. So how does the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1445.94,"endTime":1449.96,"body":"first maybe like, what is the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1449.96,"endTime":1453.08,"body":"golden path that like, how do"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1449.96,"endTime":1453.08,"body":"you actually go and set that up?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1454.07,"endTime":1457.16,"body":"Well, so during the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1454.07,"endTime":1457.16,"body":"time that I was at the FT, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1457.16,"endTime":1461.3,"body":"went from, everything's written"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1457.16,"endTime":1461.3,"body":"in Java, it's runs, in Tomcat."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1461.3,"endTime":1466.85,"body":"It's got Apache in front of it,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1461.3,"endTime":1466.85,"body":"to a kind of explosion of things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1466.85,"endTime":1469.79,"body":"that you could use in one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1466.85,"endTime":1469.79,"body":"database, whatever to bring"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1469.82,"endTime":1471.83,"body":"pretty much an explosion of you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1469.82,"endTime":1471.83,"body":"can use lots of different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1471.83,"endTime":1476.51,"body":"things. So we started three big"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1471.83,"endTime":1476.51,"body":"projects around the same time"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1476.54,"endTime":1479.84,"body":"they were all microservice"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1476.54,"endTime":1479.84,"body":"based. They introduced a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1479.84,"endTime":1484.79,"body":"different technology. And that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1479.84,"endTime":1484.79,"body":"great because you, you, you end"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1484.79,"endTime":1488.75,"body":"up being quite autonomous when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1484.79,"endTime":1488.75,"body":"you're doing that and you're not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1488.75,"endTime":1492.53,"body":"held up so you can make"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1488.75,"endTime":1492.53,"body":"progress. But you're a couple of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1492.53,"endTime":1496.16,"body":"years in and you've all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1492.53,"endTime":1496.16,"body":"basically solved the same"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1496.16,"endTime":1498.95,"body":"problems. So you've got eight"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1496.16,"endTime":1498.95,"body":"different solutions for a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1498.95,"endTime":1505.79,"body":"particular thing. and actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1498.95,"endTime":1505.79,"body":"people start to get get to a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1505.79,"endTime":1508.1,"body":"point where I'd really want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1505.79,"endTime":1508.1,"body":"be focused on the business"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1508.1,"endTime":1511.37,"body":"stuff. I don't want to be like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1508.1,"endTime":1511.37,"body":"maintaining our own version of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1511.37,"endTime":1515.78,"body":"the build pipelines, or, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1511.37,"endTime":1515.78,"body":"know, I want to just be able to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1516.05,"endTime":1518.27,"body":"do infrastructure as code and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1516.05,"endTime":1518.27,"body":"not kind of invent it from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1518.27,"endTime":1521.0,"body":"scratch every time. So there's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1518.27,"endTime":1521.0,"body":"there's always going to be some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1521.0,"endTime":1525.86,"body":"level of things where you think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1521.0,"endTime":1525.86,"body":"well, could you? How much of it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1525.86,"endTime":1533.45,"body":"could you could you take away"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1525.86,"endTime":1533.45,"body":"and provide to people, so. So we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1533.45,"endTime":1537.47,"body":"used AWS, among other things at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1533.45,"endTime":1537.47,"body":"the FT, got a team there that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1537.47,"endTime":1541.73,"body":"are building tooling around"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1537.47,"endTime":1541.73,"body":"that. You want to build things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1541.73,"endTime":1546.26,"body":"that people most care about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1541.73,"endTime":1546.26,"body":"having. So you want to build"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1546.26,"endTime":1549.77,"body":"something that's well documented"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1546.26,"endTime":1549.77,"body":"self service, automated, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1549.77,"endTime":1553.73,"body":"know, you have these principles"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1549.77,"endTime":1553.73,"body":"behind what you're building, to,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1554.93,"endTime":1558.56,"body":"to test that, that what you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1554.93,"endTime":1558.56,"body":"building is useful. Because I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1558.71,"endTime":1562.88,"body":"think that if you've got"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1558.71,"endTime":1562.88,"body":"autonomous teams, for a lot of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1563.51,"endTime":1566.27,"body":"in a lot of cases, they could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1563.51,"endTime":1566.27,"body":"choose not to use whatever you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1566.27,"endTime":1569.63,"body":"build, you don't want to be, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1566.27,"endTime":1569.63,"body":"don't want to be in the position"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1569.63,"endTime":1572.84,"body":"where everyone is forced to use"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1569.63,"endTime":1572.84,"body":"your stuff that they don't like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1572.84,"endTime":1576.47,"body":"you want to build something that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1572.84,"endTime":1576.47,"body":"is better than having to build"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1576.47,"endTime":1583.28,"body":"it from scratch. So the idea of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1576.47,"endTime":1583.28,"body":"the golden path is that you, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1583.28,"endTime":1585.62,"body":"basically say, okay, we need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1583.28,"endTime":1585.62,"body":"do there are certain things you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1585.62,"endTime":1590.42,"body":"need to do to deploy code into a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1585.62,"endTime":1590.42,"body":"live environment. How much of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1590.42,"endTime":1595.7,"body":"those things can we provide you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1590.42,"endTime":1595.7,"body":"with a really simple way to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1595.7,"endTime":1599.51,"body":"it so that you don't take too"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1595.7,"endTime":1599.51,"body":"much time on it. And the idea is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1599.51,"endTime":1603.74,"body":"that sometimes you might say"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1599.51,"endTime":1603.74,"body":"it's paved road, you can choose"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1603.74,"endTime":1607.13,"body":"not to follow the golden path."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1603.74,"endTime":1607.13,"body":"But it should be easier to walk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1607.13,"endTime":1609.77,"body":"on the road than it is to hack"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1607.13,"endTime":1609.77,"body":"your way through the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1609.77,"endTime":1612.44,"body":"undergrowth. And if you do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1609.77,"endTime":1612.44,"body":"decide you're going to hack your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1612.44,"endTime":1615.38,"body":"way through the undergrowth,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1612.44,"endTime":1615.38,"body":"then I think the thing that you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1615.38,"endTime":1623.6,"body":"are, basically that you have to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1615.38,"endTime":1623.6,"body":"do is meet all of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1623.6,"endTime":1628.97,"body":"requirements that the golden"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1623.6,"endTime":1628.97,"body":"path does. So you can build your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1628.97,"endTime":1631.76,"body":"own version of this, but you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1628.97,"endTime":1631.76,"body":"better have logging and it had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1631.76,"endTime":1635.63,"body":"better be patched regularly. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1631.76,"endTime":1635.63,"body":"you're the ones that are going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1635.63,"endTime":1639.29,"body":"to wake up at two in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1635.63,"endTime":1639.29,"body":"morning, if it breaks, and it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1639.29,"endTime":1643.43,"body":"being used for a critical"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1639.29,"endTime":1643.43,"body":"system. So it sort of feels like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1643.43,"endTime":1645.74,"body":"if you're doing engineering"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1643.43,"endTime":1645.74,"body":"enablement, within a within a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1645.74,"endTime":1648.05,"body":"company, you should be able to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1645.74,"endTime":1648.05,"body":"build something that people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1648.05,"endTime":1651.23,"body":"like, because you're right next"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1648.05,"endTime":1651.23,"body":"to your customers, and you only"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1651.23,"endTime":1655.55,"body":"have to solve the needs of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1651.23,"endTime":1655.55,"body":"people in your organization. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1656.18,"endTime":1660.89,"body":"you should be able to to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1656.18,"endTime":1660.89,"body":"better than them having to build"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1660.89,"endTime":1663.83,"body":"everything from scratch. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1660.89,"endTime":1663.83,"body":"engineering enablement is about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1663.83,"endTime":1666.83,"body":"that. And I think when you have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1663.83,"endTime":1666.83,"body":"a very complicated distributed"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1666.83,"endTime":1670.55,"body":"systems architecture, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1666.83,"endTime":1670.55,"body":"when you have 1000s of different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1670.61,"endTime":1676.91,"body":"moving parts and services, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1670.61,"endTime":1676.91,"body":"so microservices, serverless,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1677.24,"endTime":1681.8,"body":"all of these things. It's worth"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1677.24,"endTime":1681.8,"body":"investing in some people that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1681.8,"endTime":1686.09,"body":"just provide a sort of stable, a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1681.8,"endTime":1686.09,"body":"stable sort of, under underlay"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1686.09,"endTime":1686.42,"body":"for that."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1687.08,"endTime":1688.73,"body":"How do you go"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1687.08,"endTime":1688.73,"body":"about like, so I guess, if"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1688.73,"endTime":1691.97,"body":"you're like, kind of setting up"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1688.73,"endTime":1691.97,"body":"teams like this, like, where do"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1691.97,"endTime":1695.69,"body":"you begin? Because, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1691.97,"endTime":1695.69,"body":"get like, after some time, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1695.69,"endTime":1699.59,"body":"probably have a great tool or"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1695.69,"endTime":1699.59,"body":"project that people want to use,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1699.59,"endTime":1701.96,"body":"but like what does the sort of"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1699.59,"endTime":1701.96,"body":"early stage look like?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1702.77,"endTime":1706.37,"body":"So I think the way"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1702.77,"endTime":1706.37,"body":"you begin when you're setting up"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1706.37,"endTime":1709.55,"body":"the teams, for me, it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1706.37,"endTime":1709.55,"body":"finding people who wanted to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1709.55,"endTime":1715.28,"body":"solve this kind of problem. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1709.55,"endTime":1715.28,"body":"who had a natural instinct to go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1715.28,"endTime":1719.3,"body":"and talk to their customers. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1715.28,"endTime":1719.3,"body":"mean, effectively, you are you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1719.3,"endTime":1722.96,"body":"have, you're building a kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1719.3,"endTime":1722.96,"body":"a product, and you're kind of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1723.26,"endTime":1727.61,"body":"you're still you should still"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1723.26,"endTime":1727.61,"body":"care about research and feedback"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1727.61,"endTime":1733.1,"body":"and everything like that. You"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1727.61,"endTime":1733.1,"body":"probably, like so, so what we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1733.1,"endTime":1736.88,"body":"would do is we talk to people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1733.1,"endTime":1736.88,"body":"about what they were finding was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1736.88,"endTime":1740.66,"body":"painful so we'd survey or we'd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1736.88,"endTime":1740.66,"body":"interview or we'd look at what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1740.66,"endTime":1742.94,"body":"people said in Slack about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1740.66,"endTime":1742.94,"body":"something. So you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1742.94,"endTime":1746.06,"body":"see lots of complaints about a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1742.94,"endTime":1746.06,"body":"particular bit of technology,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1746.78,"endTime":1752.48,"body":"then you could probably have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1746.78,"endTime":1752.48,"body":"that as a target you do look at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1752.99,"endTime":1758.03,"body":"or certainly I always thought we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1752.99,"endTime":1758.03,"body":"should try and deliver regular,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1758.12,"endTime":1760.7,"body":"a regular set of things. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1758.12,"endTime":1760.7,"body":"looking for things that don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1760.7,"endTime":1763.82,"body":"take a lot of time that you can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1760.7,"endTime":1763.82,"body":"get something out the door that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1763.82,"endTime":1765.98,"body":"people will like, but also"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1763.82,"endTime":1765.98,"body":"thinking about what can we build"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1765.98,"endTime":1769.55,"body":"that maybe take a bit longer,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1765.98,"endTime":1769.55,"body":"but it will make more of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1769.55,"endTime":1773.63,"body":"significant difference. We"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1769.55,"endTime":1773.63,"body":"started with what we had. So we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1773.63,"endTime":1781.31,"body":"kind of had the idea of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1773.63,"endTime":1781.31,"body":"registry for systems. But it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1781.31,"endTime":1785.21,"body":"wasn't really built in a way"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1781.31,"endTime":1785.21,"body":"that made it easy to extend. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1785.21,"endTime":1791.09,"body":"it was effectively largely about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1785.21,"endTime":1791.09,"body":"runbooks It was basically a kind"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1791.09,"endTime":1794.9,"body":"of, it was more like a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1791.09,"endTime":1794.9,"body":"relational database. You just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1794.9,"endTime":1798.47,"body":"had rows for each system. So now"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1794.9,"endTime":1798.47,"body":"if I moved from one team to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1798.47,"endTime":1801.74,"body":"another, and I was the tech lead"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1798.47,"endTime":1801.74,"body":"for over 150 of the systems, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1801.74,"endTime":1806.18,"body":"had to go and update 150 rows"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1801.74,"endTime":1806.18,"body":"effectively. So it's better if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1806.18,"endTime":1808.34,"body":"you think about that as a graph."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1806.18,"endTime":1808.34,"body":"So the first thing we did was we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1808.34,"endTime":1811.97,"body":"converted that to be a graph."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1808.34,"endTime":1811.97,"body":"And then the graph was there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1812.0,"endTime":1815.0,"body":"with the ability very easily to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1812.0,"endTime":1815.0,"body":"add new new nodes. And so we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1815.0,"endTime":1819.35,"body":"have a, there's a thing at the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1815.0,"endTime":1819.35,"body":"FT called Biz Ops, which is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1819.35,"endTime":1822.8,"body":"basically, a systems registry,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1819.35,"endTime":1822.8,"body":"but it's more than that. It's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1822.8,"endTime":1827.09,"body":"like every service linked to the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1822.8,"endTime":1827.09,"body":"teams that own it, we've been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1827.12,"endTime":1833.75,"body":"able to bring in information"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1827.12,"endTime":1833.75,"body":"about GitHub repositories, AWS"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1833.75,"endTime":1838.67,"body":"resources, because we already"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1833.75,"endTime":1838.67,"body":"had a standard from a long time"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1838.67,"endTime":1843.89,"body":"ago about having unique system"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1838.67,"endTime":1843.89,"body":"codes for systems, you can tie"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1843.89,"endTime":1847.25,"body":"lots of things together. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1843.89,"endTime":1847.25,"body":"then you can start exploring it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1847.25,"endTime":1852.59,"body":"And it's got a GraphQL API, so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1847.25,"endTime":1852.59,"body":"you can ask interesting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1852.59,"endTime":1855.53,"body":"questions and say, Can you find"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1852.59,"endTime":1855.53,"body":"me all the services that aren't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1855.56,"endTime":1858.62,"body":"that are not owned right now?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1855.56,"endTime":1858.62,"body":"But can you find me all the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1858.62,"endTime":1862.46,"body":"services were? So one of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1858.62,"endTime":1862.46,"body":"interesting things we did quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1862.46,"endTime":1869.36,"body":"early on was, Are there services"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1862.46,"endTime":1869.36,"body":"that have S3 buckets that are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1870.23,"endTime":1875.81,"body":"open, publicly open, where we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1870.23,"endTime":1875.81,"body":"said that this service has PII"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1876.05,"endTime":1880.31,"body":"information in it? Because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1876.05,"endTime":1880.31,"body":"that's immediately telling you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1880.31,"endTime":1883.94,"body":"something really interesting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1880.31,"endTime":1883.94,"body":"that like, this is one we should"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1883.94,"endTime":1886.49,"body":"probably focus on is it and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1883.94,"endTime":1886.49,"body":"actually, quite often, you'll"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1886.49,"endTime":1889.97,"body":"find out that the stuff that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1886.49,"endTime":1889.97,"body":"in the in S3 is actually fine."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1889.97,"endTime":1892.43,"body":"But you should at least have to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1889.97,"endTime":1892.43,"body":"have that thought. So being able"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1892.43,"endTime":1894.92,"body":"to automate the kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1892.43,"endTime":1894.92,"body":"questions that that you ask as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1894.92,"endTime":1899.6,"body":"well. But also, we spent quite a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1894.92,"endTime":1899.6,"body":"lot of time just selling,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1899.66,"endTime":1904.4,"body":"selling what we were doing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1899.66,"endTime":1904.4,"body":"internally to, to our customers."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1904.43,"endTime":1908.27,"body":"So I always took every"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1904.43,"endTime":1908.27,"body":"opportunity to talk at tech all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1908.27,"endTime":1912.83,"body":"hands or to run a panel at the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1908.27,"endTime":1912.83,"body":"internal conference, or to write"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1912.83,"endTime":1917.24,"body":"a blog post, to try and find out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1912.83,"endTime":1917.24,"body":"what people were where people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1917.24,"endTime":1920.39,"body":"were frustrated with something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1917.24,"endTime":1920.39,"body":"and where we can help. It is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1920.39,"endTime":1923.57,"body":"difficult, because you always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1920.39,"endTime":1923.57,"body":"require teams to work with you a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1923.57,"endTime":1926.33,"body":"bit when you're adding some new"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1923.57,"endTime":1926.33,"body":"feature, and they're all busy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1926.33,"endTime":1930.59,"body":"with their own, like their own"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1926.33,"endTime":1930.59,"body":"needs. So So part of it is can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1930.59,"endTime":1934.52,"body":"you give people enough notice,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1930.59,"endTime":1934.52,"body":"like in six months time, can you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1934.52,"endTime":1938.45,"body":"spare a team for a few weeks or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1934.52,"endTime":1938.45,"body":"more? I think that that kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1938.45,"endTime":1942.11,"body":"helps? Or can you send someone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1938.45,"endTime":1942.11,"body":"to go and sit in that team and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1942.11,"endTime":1944.18,"body":"do the thing for them as well?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1944.75,"endTime":1950.45,"body":"What was the most"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1944.75,"endTime":1950.45,"body":"popular tool or software you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1950.45,"endTime":1952.64,"body":"shipped in the engineering"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1950.45,"endTime":1952.64,"body":"enablement team?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1954.55,"endTime":1957.278,"body":"Well, I honestly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1954.55,"endTime":1957.278,"body":"think Biz Ops is still like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1957.339,"endTime":1960.856,"body":"it's still just really the fact"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1957.339,"endTime":1960.856,"body":"that you could go and look"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1960.917,"endTime":1964.495,"body":"things up. And I knew we were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1960.917,"endTime":1964.495,"body":"doing well at the point where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1964.556,"endTime":1968.134,"body":"people who weren't in our team"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1964.556,"endTime":1968.134,"body":"would post a link to Biz Ops"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1968.194,"endTime":1971.469,"body":"when someone would say \"Does"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1968.194,"endTime":1971.469,"body":"anyone know who owns this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1971.53,"endTime":1975.35,"body":"service?\" and someone else would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1971.53,"endTime":1975.35,"body":"post the URL and you go, well,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1975.411,"endTime":1979.171,"body":"that's, that's good. But on top"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1975.411,"endTime":1979.171,"body":"of that, there was quite a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1979.231,"endTime":1982.87,"body":"of nice sort of visualization."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1979.231,"endTime":1982.87,"body":"So there's a tool called SOS,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1982.931,"endTime":1986.509,"body":"which was system operability"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1982.931,"endTime":1986.509,"body":"score. And this was at a point"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1986.569,"endTime":1990.087,"body":"where we had lots of services"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1986.569,"endTime":1990.087,"body":"that didn't have a very good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1990.147,"endTime":1993.786,"body":"runbook. I mean, mostly, they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1990.147,"endTime":1993.786,"body":"just didn't have a runbook. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1993.846,"endTime":1997.303,"body":"we automated scoring, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1993.846,"endTime":1997.303,"body":"runbooks. So it was it was, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1997.364,"endTime":2001.063,"body":"know, a little bit like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":1997.364,"endTime":2001.063,"body":"it's really important that the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2001.124,"endTime":2004.823,"body":"service is owned by a team. If"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2001.124,"endTime":2004.823,"body":"it's a if it's one of our most"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2004.884,"endTime":2008.462,"body":"important services, is there an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2004.884,"endTime":2008.462,"body":"out of hours rota? Is there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2008.522,"endTime":2012.161,"body":"anything in the section about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2008.522,"endTime":2012.161,"body":"failovers? And a lot of it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2012.221,"endTime":2015.86,"body":"quite straightforward. It was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2012.221,"endTime":2015.86,"body":"like, is there something there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2015.921,"endTime":2019.559,"body":"at all. So you know, it could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2015.921,"endTime":2019.559,"body":"literally be someone's gone to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2019.62,"endTime":2023.198,"body":"be filled in later. Although I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2019.62,"endTime":2023.198,"body":"think we did look for things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2023.259,"endTime":2027.2,"body":"that just said to do, basically,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2023.259,"endTime":2027.2,"body":"we can score, we could score the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2027.261,"endTime":2030.657,"body":"runbook. And then we can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2027.261,"endTime":2030.657,"body":"aggregate the scoring, and show"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2030.718,"endTime":2034.599,"body":"teams, how they were doing. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2030.718,"endTime":2034.599,"body":"then groups how they were doing."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2034.659,"endTime":2038.177,"body":"And then we could basically"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2034.659,"endTime":2038.177,"body":"compare, basically show people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2038.237,"endTime":2041.694,"body":"how they were doing compared"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2038.237,"endTime":2041.694,"body":"with the other groups. There"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2041.755,"endTime":2045.333,"body":"were two things about this. For"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2041.755,"endTime":2045.333,"body":"some people, they're really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2045.393,"endTime":2049.093,"body":"competitive. So we would have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2045.393,"endTime":2049.093,"body":"people who would come to us and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2049.153,"endTime":2053.095,"body":"say, I want to get 100%, what do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2049.153,"endTime":2053.095,"body":"I have to do to get to 100%. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2053.156,"endTime":2056.673,"body":"sometimes that was actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2053.156,"endTime":2056.673,"body":"difficult, because maybe there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2056.734,"endTime":2060.494,"body":"was a like, there just wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2056.734,"endTime":2060.494,"body":"way to do it. But we would try"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2060.554,"endTime":2064.375,"body":"and this and that. And you would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2060.554,"endTime":2064.375,"body":"see people posting screenshots"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2064.435,"endTime":2068.013,"body":"in Slack saying, \"Hey, we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2064.435,"endTime":2068.013,"body":"overtaken you\". So that worked"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2068.074,"endTime":2071.591,"body":"in one respect. And what I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2068.074,"endTime":2071.591,"body":"hadn't realized, was around the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2071.652,"endTime":2075.23,"body":"same time the FT started doing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2071.652,"endTime":2075.23,"body":"OKRs. And the thing about so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2075.291,"endTime":2079.05,"body":"objectives and key results. The"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2075.291,"endTime":2079.05,"body":"thing about this is you set an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2079.111,"endTime":2082.507,"body":"objective, and your key result"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2079.111,"endTime":2082.507,"body":"is something that you can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2082.568,"endTime":2086.267,"body":"measure. It's even better if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2082.568,"endTime":2086.267,"body":"can measure how you're doing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2086.328,"endTime":2089.845,"body":"throughout the quarter to see"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2086.328,"endTime":2089.845,"body":"that you're making progress."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2089.906,"endTime":2093.544,"body":"Well, it turns out if you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2089.906,"endTime":2093.544,"body":"basically given a score, you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2093.605,"endTime":2097.425,"body":"just given people the ability, a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2093.605,"endTime":2097.425,"body":"really simple way to set a key"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2097.486,"endTime":2101.367,"body":"result related to observability."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2097.486,"endTime":2101.367,"body":"So people would say we're going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2101.428,"endTime":2105.248,"body":"to improve our SOS to be from 70"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2101.428,"endTime":2105.248,"body":"to 90. And so that had quite a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2105.309,"endTime":2109.13,"body":"big impact. It only lasts for a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2105.309,"endTime":2109.13,"body":"certain amount of time, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2109.19,"endTime":2113.071,"body":"it isn't as good at catching the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2109.19,"endTime":2113.071,"body":"place the point where someone's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2113.132,"endTime":2116.771,"body":"information is out of date, if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2113.132,"endTime":2116.771,"body":"there's information in there,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2116.831,"endTime":2120.409,"body":"but it's wrong, that's a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2116.831,"endTime":2120.409,"body":"harder to automate. And we did"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2120.47,"endTime":2123.745,"body":"have a manual follow up, which"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2120.47,"endTime":2123.745,"body":"was that our first line"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2123.805,"endTime":2127.626,"body":"operations team would review all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2123.805,"endTime":2127.626,"body":"of the critical systems yearly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2127.686,"endTime":2131.264,"body":"to look at that information and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2127.686,"endTime":2131.264,"body":"do a manual review of it as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2131.325,"endTime":2135.085,"body":"well. But that kind of shows,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2131.325,"endTime":2135.085,"body":"you know, you might get a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2135.146,"endTime":2138.845,"body":"feedback here, lots of great"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2135.146,"endTime":2138.845,"body":"stuff out of something, but it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2138.906,"endTime":2142.362,"body":"not going to work forever."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2138.906,"endTime":2142.362,"body":"Sooner or later that's not the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2142.423,"endTime":2146.061,"body":"problem, something else is the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2142.423,"endTime":2146.061,"body":"problem. And that's where you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2146.122,"endTime":2149.639,"body":"need to be to be focusing,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2146.122,"endTime":2149.639,"body":"focusing your time. So I think,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2149.7,"endTime":2153.217,"body":"yeah, I think that worked. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2149.7,"endTime":2153.217,"body":"generally, another one that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2153.278,"endTime":2156.917,"body":"people have liked recently is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2153.278,"endTime":2156.917,"body":"that the team that managed DNS"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2156.977,"endTime":2160.737,"body":"configuration, we had to move"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2156.977,"endTime":2160.737,"body":"DNS providers two or three years"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2160.798,"endTime":2164.497,"body":"ago. And as part of that move,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2160.798,"endTime":2164.497,"body":"they basically moved DNS to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2164.558,"endTime":2167.954,"body":"infrastructure as code. So you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2164.558,"endTime":2167.954,"body":"can make you can make DNS"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2168.014,"endTime":2171.835,"body":"changes by by in a GitHub repo"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2168.014,"endTime":2171.835,"body":"and raise a PR, however, there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2171.896,"endTime":2175.716,"body":"still feedback, saying, it just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2171.896,"endTime":2175.716,"body":"takes a while for you to review"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2175.777,"endTime":2179.597,"body":"the changes. So they looked at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2175.777,"endTime":2179.597,"body":"the kinds of changes that people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2179.658,"endTime":2183.175,"body":"made, and they identified some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2179.658,"endTime":2183.175,"body":"changes that are really low"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2183.236,"endTime":2187.117,"body":"risk. And they added some rules."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2183.236,"endTime":2187.117,"body":"So that basically, if you raise"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2187.178,"endTime":2190.938,"body":"a if you were to raise a PR, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2187.178,"endTime":2190.938,"body":"it's adding a new section, or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2190.998,"endTime":2194.091,"body":"deleting just a section as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2190.998,"endTime":2194.091,"body":"whole, they could just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2194.152,"endTime":2197.972,"body":"automatically approve it. Or if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2194.152,"endTime":2197.972,"body":"it was something that when they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2198.033,"endTime":2201.732,"body":"knew the cyberSec team orght to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2198.033,"endTime":2201.732,"body":"have a an opinion, they could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2201.793,"endTime":2205.613,"body":"automatically add that someone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2201.793,"endTime":2205.613,"body":"from the cyberSec team onto that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2205.674,"endTime":2209.131,"body":"PR. So they just started,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2205.674,"endTime":2209.131,"body":"there's a really good blog post"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2209.191,"endTime":2212.951,"body":"on the FTs technical blog, which"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2209.191,"endTime":2212.951,"body":"is on medium, it's FT product"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2213.012,"endTime":2216.711,"body":"technology, about this, which is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2213.012,"endTime":2216.711,"body":"basically, you know, here's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2216.772,"endTime":2220.471,"body":"here's where we started, started"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2216.772,"endTime":2220.471,"body":"the work. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2220.532,"endTime":2224.231,"body":"something that I really liked,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2220.532,"endTime":2224.231,"body":"because it's, it's automation,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2224.291,"endTime":2228.173,"body":"it's listening to our customers,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2224.291,"endTime":2228.173,"body":"and it's like having a balanced"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2228.233,"endTime":2231.933,"body":"view of like, of risk versus"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2228.233,"endTime":2231.933,"body":"autonomy. Because I think you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2231.993,"endTime":2235.935,"body":"always you want teams to be able"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2231.993,"endTime":2235.935,"body":"to autonomous, but you also want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2235.996,"endTime":2239.21,"body":"to protect them from making"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2235.996,"endTime":2239.21,"body":"mistakes that you want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2239.27,"endTime":2242.303,"body":"protect someone from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2239.27,"endTime":2242.303,"body":"accidentally deleting the DNS"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2242.363,"endTime":2246.123,"body":"entry for something critical. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2242.363,"endTime":2246.123,"body":"think that's, that's something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2246.184,"endTime":2248.61,"body":"that you ought to do as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2246.184,"endTime":2248.61,"body":"platform team."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2250.09,"endTime":2252.61,"body":"Yes, it sounds"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2250.09,"endTime":2252.61,"body":"like a great idea."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2252.7,"endTime":2253.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2253.9,"endTime":2256.69,"body":"And I suppose,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2253.9,"endTime":2256.69,"body":"like, at the FT, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2256.69,"endTime":2260.74,"body":"like, a very large organization,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2256.69,"endTime":2260.74,"body":"like, super critical, highly"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2260.74,"endTime":2264.7,"body":"visible. So, you know, I can see"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2260.74,"endTime":2264.7,"body":"it makes like tons of sense to"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2264.7,"endTime":2267.52,"body":"have engineering enablement to"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2264.7,"endTime":2267.52,"body":"sort of set these things up."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2267.7,"endTime":2270.94,"body":"There's, I'm curious, like, on"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2267.7,"endTime":2270.94,"body":"your thoughts of like, should"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2271.15,"endTime":2273.88,"body":"every company have something"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2271.15,"endTime":2273.88,"body":"like this? Or like, what's the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2273.88,"endTime":2276.85,"body":"point where you actually say,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2273.88,"endTime":2276.85,"body":"engineering enablement, is"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2276.85,"endTime":2279.28,"body":"actually going to really help us"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2276.85,"endTime":2279.28,"body":"and we should, we should go and"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2279.28,"endTime":2280.24,"body":"get that set up?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2281.02,"endTime":2284.86,"body":"I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2281.02,"endTime":2284.86,"body":"probably to do with it has to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2284.86,"endTime":2288.94,"body":"with how many people you have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2284.86,"endTime":2288.94,"body":"working in engineering, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2288.94,"endTime":2292.84,"body":"it has to do with whether you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2288.94,"endTime":2292.84,"body":"have enough people doing work"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2292.84,"endTime":2295.69,"body":"where you want to end up with a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2292.84,"endTime":2295.69,"body":"slightly more complicated"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2295.72,"endTime":2300.64,"body":"architecture, in order to allow"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2295.72,"endTime":2300.64,"body":"them all to make progress. So,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2300.85,"endTime":2303.64,"body":"you know, I wouldn't recommend"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2300.85,"endTime":2303.64,"body":"people adopt a microservices"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2303.64,"endTime":2306.04,"body":"architecture when there's one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2303.64,"endTime":2306.04,"body":"team of people working on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2306.04,"endTime":2308.68,"body":"something. But when you have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2306.04,"endTime":2308.68,"body":"five or six, maybe maybe you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2308.68,"endTime":2311.98,"body":"might introduce some level of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2308.68,"endTime":2311.98,"body":"that. And when you get up to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2311.98,"endTime":2316.78,"body":"like, 250 people working in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2311.98,"endTime":2316.78,"body":"tech team, you probably go a bit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2316.78,"endTime":2320.77,"body":"further, once you get to that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2316.78,"endTime":2320.77,"body":"point, I think you're going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2320.77,"endTime":2325.81,"body":"have people that are spending"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2320.77,"endTime":2325.81,"body":"time doing this sort of stuff,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2326.08,"endTime":2328.81,"body":"whether they're one person in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2326.08,"endTime":2328.81,"body":"team who's dealing with all of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2328.81,"endTime":2331.66,"body":"the little niggles, or whether"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2328.81,"endTime":2331.66,"body":"you actually extract those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2331.66,"endTime":2334.87,"body":"people and have them work for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2331.66,"endTime":2334.87,"body":"something that solves it, let"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2334.87,"endTime":2338.44,"body":"you know, do you do you solve it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2334.87,"endTime":2338.44,"body":"locally? Or do you solve it more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2338.44,"endTime":2343.54,"body":"globally? And I think, often you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2338.44,"endTime":2343.54,"body":"want a bit mix of both, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2343.54,"endTime":2345.88,"body":"some things are very specific to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2343.54,"endTime":2345.88,"body":"a particular team. But some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2345.88,"endTime":2348.94,"body":"things it's like that you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2345.88,"endTime":2348.94,"body":"looking at those local problem"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2348.94,"endTime":2351.07,"body":"solvers. And actually, they're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2348.94,"endTime":2351.07,"body":"they're doing stuff that other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2351.07,"endTime":2354.31,"body":"people are also doing. And it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2351.07,"endTime":2354.31,"body":"just not it's not the most"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2354.31,"endTime":2357.64,"body":"effective use of people's time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2354.31,"endTime":2357.64,"body":"So I think it will, it's like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2357.64,"endTime":2361.18,"body":"it's a classic consultant answer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2357.64,"endTime":2361.18,"body":"to say it depends, but I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2361.18,"endTime":2365.59,"body":"what it comes down to is, does"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2361.18,"endTime":2365.59,"body":"it speed you up for your other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2365.59,"endTime":2370.69,"body":"teams having this? And you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2365.59,"endTime":2370.69,"body":"could, you could try it out by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2370.9,"endTime":2373.51,"body":"saying, you know, we know this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2370.9,"endTime":2373.51,"body":"is a particular problem. Let's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2373.51,"endTime":2376.81,"body":"form a feature team that's going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2373.51,"endTime":2376.81,"body":"to work on it for a month and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2376.81,"endTime":2382.6,"body":"see, does it have an impact?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2376.81,"endTime":2382.6,"body":"Does it change our ability to to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2382.6,"endTime":2386.83,"body":"make business changes. Early on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2382.6,"endTime":2386.83,"body":"at the FT and it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2386.83,"endTime":2389.53,"body":"before I was really involved in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2386.83,"endTime":2389.53,"body":"this because there's been a move"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2389.53,"endTime":2392.68,"body":"towards this for a long, long"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2389.53,"endTime":2392.68,"body":"time. Now when I when I first"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2392.68,"endTime":2397.24,"body":"joined we did 12 releases a year"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2392.68,"endTime":2397.24,"body":"for the website. And if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2397.24,"endTime":2401.59,"body":"wanted to get a new build a new"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2397.24,"endTime":2401.59,"body":"system you'd buy a server and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2401.59,"endTime":2405.01,"body":"put it in the server room, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2401.59,"endTime":2405.01,"body":"everything. So there was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2405.01,"endTime":2410.59,"body":"investment then to, like make it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2405.01,"endTime":2410.59,"body":"much quicker to, to spin up a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2410.59,"endTime":2413.65,"body":"server. And you could actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2410.59,"endTime":2413.65,"body":"see, you could see the impact of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2413.65,"endTime":2416.47,"body":"that point, you could see like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2413.65,"endTime":2416.47,"body":"we're releasing code a lot more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2416.5,"endTime":2420.64,"body":"frequently, it takes less time"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2416.5,"endTime":2420.64,"body":"for us to get that first release"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2420.64,"endTime":2424.12,"body":"out. After a while, it's much"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2420.64,"endTime":2424.12,"body":"harder to measure it. Because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2424.12,"endTime":2427.0,"body":"you're already like the FT does"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2424.12,"endTime":2427.0,"body":"pretty well on the accelerate"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2427.0,"endTime":2431.38,"body":"metrics probably do 30,000"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2427.0,"endTime":2431.38,"body":"changes a year. So you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2431.38,"endTime":2434.95,"body":"we're doing a lot of change. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2431.38,"endTime":2434.95,"body":"when people say, How can you?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2435.1,"endTime":2437.62,"body":"How can you show that your team"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2435.1,"endTime":2437.62,"body":"is providing value, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2437.62,"endTime":2444.34,"body":"actually quite hard without"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2437.62,"endTime":2444.34,"body":"removing that team. But but it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2444.34,"endTime":2449.83,"body":"is still there and removing some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2444.34,"endTime":2449.83,"body":"of that like pain for day to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2449.83,"endTime":2453.19,"body":"day, you know, you need to tend"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2449.83,"endTime":2453.19,"body":"to your tend to your software"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2453.19,"endTime":2456.73,"body":"estate, and the people in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2453.19,"endTime":2456.73,"body":"engineering enablement teams"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2457.0,"endTime":2457.81,"body":"tend to do that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2458.89,"endTime":2461.95,"body":"I love that. I'd"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2458.89,"endTime":2461.95,"body":"love to switch now and talk"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2462.19,"endTime":2465.97,"body":"about the team itself, kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2462.19,"endTime":2465.97,"body":"the makeup of the team. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2465.97,"endTime":2469.51,"body":"read a quote that you said"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2465.97,"endTime":2469.51,"body":"previously about when the fact"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2469.51,"endTime":2472.48,"body":"that when you joined the FT as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2469.51,"endTime":2472.48,"body":"senior developer, you were one"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2472.48,"endTime":2475.48,"body":"of four or five women in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2472.48,"endTime":2475.48,"body":"development team. And now in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2475.48,"endTime":2480.07,"body":"London, your team's around 35%"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2475.48,"endTime":2480.07,"body":"women and non binary, what steps"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2480.07,"endTime":2482.8,"body":"did you take to achieve that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2480.07,"endTime":2482.8,"body":"improvement as an organization?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2484.85,"endTime":2488.139,"body":"Ah, I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2484.85,"endTime":2488.139,"body":"there are, there are lots of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2488.207,"endTime":2492.25,"body":"parts to that. But probably"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2488.207,"endTime":2492.25,"body":"probably a main one is actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2492.319,"endTime":2496.293,"body":"Cait O'Riordan, saying we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2492.319,"endTime":2496.293,"body":"going to do it. And we have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2496.362,"endTime":2500.268,"body":"target to be 50/50 by 2023. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2496.362,"endTime":2500.268,"body":"can't actually remember the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2500.336,"endTime":2504.379,"body":"exact details. But but to say"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2500.336,"endTime":2504.379,"body":"here is a here is a target we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2504.448,"endTime":2508.628,"body":"have for our department, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2504.448,"endTime":2508.628,"body":"then to be to be specifying OKRs"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2508.696,"endTime":2512.876,"body":"for it, quarter after quarter."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2508.696,"endTime":2512.876,"body":"And everyone knowing that this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2512.945,"endTime":2517.056,"body":"is kind of an expectation. So."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2512.945,"endTime":2517.056,"body":"So you're, you're thinking in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2517.125,"endTime":2521.168,"body":"terms of how are we doing in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2517.125,"endTime":2521.168,"body":"terms of our hiring, and being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2521.236,"endTime":2525.005,"body":"willing to say, we've got 100"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2521.236,"endTime":2525.005,"body":"CVs in for this role, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2525.074,"endTime":2529.459,"body":"they're all men, go back to the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2525.074,"endTime":2529.459,"body":"go back to the to the recruiters"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2529.528,"endTime":2533.434,"body":"and say, this is this doesn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2529.528,"endTime":2533.434,"body":"seem possible, really, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2533.502,"endTime":2537.271,"body":"there are no women at all. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2533.502,"endTime":2537.271,"body":"women's just one aspect,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2537.34,"endTime":2541.588,"body":"obviously, there's tons of other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2537.34,"endTime":2541.588,"body":"aspects of diversity that are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2541.657,"endTime":2545.905,"body":"really important, we probably"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2541.657,"endTime":2545.905,"body":"made more progress initially, on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2545.974,"endTime":2550.291,"body":"women, and that's partly because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2545.974,"endTime":2550.291,"body":"it was one of the bits of data"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2550.36,"endTime":2554.334,"body":"that we also had. So when I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2550.36,"endTime":2554.334,"body":"I was the first woman tech"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2554.403,"endTime":2558.72,"body":"director. There'd been no, there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2554.403,"endTime":2558.72,"body":"have been no women architects,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2558.788,"endTime":2562.968,"body":"we kind of didn't, we moved away"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2558.788,"endTime":2562.968,"body":"from architects and moved to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2563.037,"endTime":2567.285,"body":"principal engineers. But there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2563.037,"endTime":2567.285,"body":"were no women architects, I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2567.354,"endTime":2571.328,"body":"the first woman principal"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2567.354,"endTime":2571.328,"body":"engineer. But then we got to the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2571.397,"endTime":2575.714,"body":"point where probably 40-50% of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2571.397,"endTime":2575.714,"body":"Principal engineers, were woman,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2575.782,"endTime":2579.894,"body":"technical director, by the time"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2575.782,"endTime":2579.894,"body":"I left, we were the majority"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2579.962,"endTime":2583.663,"body":"women, on the technical"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2579.962,"endTime":2583.663,"body":"directors, you know, only only"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2583.731,"endTime":2587.911,"body":"marginally, but it's amazing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2583.731,"endTime":2587.911,"body":"compared to pretty much anywhere"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2587.98,"endTime":2592.228,"body":"else. Partly it's that people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2587.98,"endTime":2592.228,"body":"see, they see the path. And, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2592.297,"endTime":2596.34,"body":"it's perfectly normal for a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2592.297,"endTime":2596.34,"body":"senior person in the discussion"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2596.408,"endTime":2600.52,"body":"in the technology team at the FT"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2596.408,"endTime":2600.52,"body":"to be a woman, which I just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2600.589,"endTime":2603.809,"body":"think sets that like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2600.589,"endTime":2603.809,"body":"expectation. But it's it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2603.878,"endTime":2608.195,"body":"really around the data. So when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2603.878,"endTime":2608.195,"body":"I became a tech director, every"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2608.263,"endTime":2612.306,"body":"time that we did a promotions"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2608.263,"endTime":2612.306,"body":"round, we'd look at the data."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2612.375,"endTime":2616.623,"body":"Were we putting forward men and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2612.375,"endTime":2616.623,"body":"women at similar numbers? What"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2616.692,"endTime":2620.392,"body":"were the current salary"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2616.692,"endTime":2620.392,"body":"distributions within each role"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2620.461,"endTime":2624.709,"body":"for men versus women, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2620.461,"endTime":2624.709,"body":"you want to make sure that there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2624.778,"endTime":2628.615,"body":"isn't some systematic bias"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2624.778,"endTime":2628.615,"body":"there. And you want to do the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2628.684,"endTime":2632.658,"body":"same for other aspects of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2628.684,"endTime":2632.658,"body":"diversity. But it's harder to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2632.727,"endTime":2637.044,"body":"that until you have that data."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2632.727,"endTime":2637.044,"body":"So the FT did introduce into the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2637.112,"endTime":2641.361,"body":"HR system, the ability to say,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2637.112,"endTime":2641.361,"body":"to say more about yourself, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2641.43,"endTime":2645.335,"body":"know, to say, what's your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2641.43,"endTime":2645.335,"body":"background, you know, all kinds"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2645.404,"endTime":2649.447,"body":"of levels really. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2645.404,"endTime":2649.447,"body":"having that data and actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2649.516,"endTime":2653.079,"body":"looking, looking at it is, is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2649.516,"endTime":2653.079,"body":"useful. It's difficult"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2653.147,"endTime":2657.19,"body":"sometimes, because there may"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2653.147,"endTime":2657.19,"body":"just not be enough people in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2657.259,"endTime":2661.37,"body":"particular area for it to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2657.259,"endTime":2661.37,"body":"meaningful, a meaningful thing,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2661.439,"endTime":2665.893,"body":"but at least it just gives you a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2661.439,"endTime":2665.893,"body":"framework for going oh, you know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2665.962,"endTime":2670.21,"body":"what, this person's definitely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2665.962,"endTime":2670.21,"body":"not being rewarded the way that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2670.279,"endTime":2674.527,"body":"their peer is it takes time as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2670.279,"endTime":2674.527,"body":"well because you know, when you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2674.596,"endTime":2678.707,"body":"start from a position where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2674.596,"endTime":2678.707,"body":"there hasn't been a very obvious"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2678.776,"endTime":2682.819,"body":"pay band, so we'd introduced"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2678.776,"endTime":2682.819,"body":"like we introduced about there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2682.887,"endTime":2687.067,"body":"is a pay band. And initially"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2682.887,"endTime":2687.067,"body":"there was a lot of, well, here's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2687.136,"endTime":2690.631,"body":"our here's our sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2687.136,"endTime":2690.631,"body":"internally shared not really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2690.699,"endTime":2694.948,"body":"very public with everybody, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2690.699,"endTime":2694.948,"body":"the hiring managers knew about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2695.016,"endTime":2699.333,"body":"it. And then we'd look at where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2695.016,"endTime":2699.333,"body":"the outliers were. Because then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2699.402,"endTime":2703.513,"body":"the first thing you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2699.402,"endTime":2703.513,"body":"do is make sure that you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2703.582,"endTime":2707.556,"body":"fixing those. And we started off"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2703.582,"endTime":2707.556,"body":"with pay bands that had a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2707.625,"endTime":2711.462,"body":"definite overlap, because,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2707.625,"endTime":2711.462,"body":"because basically, otherwise,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2711.531,"endTime":2715.711,"body":"you had so many outliers. But I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2711.531,"endTime":2715.711,"body":"do, I do think that like, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2715.779,"endTime":2719.891,"body":"start with that, but actually,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2715.779,"endTime":2719.891,"body":"it gets easier, the more that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2719.959,"endTime":2723.865,"body":"you already have people in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2719.959,"endTime":2723.865,"body":"place, because quite often you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2723.934,"endTime":2728.182,"body":"get recommendations, or people,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2723.934,"endTime":2728.182,"body":"you know, people come and join"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2728.251,"endTime":2732.568,"body":"you because they've heard its a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2728.251,"endTime":2732.568,"body":"good place to work. And you're,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2732.637,"endTime":2736.817,"body":"you go from having to make a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2732.637,"endTime":2736.817,"body":"special effort to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2736.885,"endTime":2740.654,"body":"you have a diverse interviewing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2736.885,"endTime":2740.654,"body":"panel, which, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2740.723,"endTime":2744.697,"body":"incidentally, has an impact on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2740.723,"endTime":2744.697,"body":"the people who are, who are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2744.766,"endTime":2748.329,"body":"showing that it's diverse."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2744.766,"endTime":2748.329,"body":"Because if you as a woman"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2748.397,"endTime":2752.577,"body":"engineer are in every interview,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2748.397,"endTime":2752.577,"body":"because we're trying to show"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2752.646,"endTime":2756.826,"body":"that there are women here, what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2752.646,"endTime":2756.826,"body":"you're not doing is the other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2756.894,"endTime":2760.595,"body":"stuff that could get you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2756.894,"endTime":2760.595,"body":"promoted, so you have to make"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2760.663,"endTime":2764.569,"body":"sure that it's rewarded for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2760.663,"endTime":2764.569,"body":"them. But eventually, it just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2764.638,"endTime":2768.749,"body":"becomes much easier, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2764.638,"endTime":2768.749,"body":"it's just natural that you have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2768.818,"endTime":2770.6,"body":"a diverse interview panel."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2771.95,"endTime":2774.01,"body":"That's really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2771.95,"endTime":2774.01,"body":"inspiring. Great. I mean, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2774.059,"endTime":2777.051,"body":"many things you mentioned there"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2774.059,"endTime":2777.051,"body":"and like OKR setting, I guess"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2777.1,"endTime":2780.043,"body":"setting it from the top having"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2777.1,"endTime":2780.043,"body":"leadership talk about it. You"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2780.092,"endTime":2783.231,"body":"mentioned Cait really driving a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2780.092,"endTime":2783.231,"body":"bit of that, hiring and pipeline"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2783.28,"endTime":2785.831,"body":"diverse interview panels, that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2783.28,"endTime":2785.831,"body":"kind of stuff. Really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2785.88,"endTime":2789.02,"body":"impressive. What was the biggest"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2785.88,"endTime":2789.02,"body":"challenge in doing all of this?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2790.06,"endTime":2794.41,"body":"Ah, I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2790.06,"endTime":2794.41,"body":"that, that there's an element of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2794.41,"endTime":2798.1,"body":"people feeling frustrated that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2794.41,"endTime":2798.1,"body":"it's not perfect, but people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2798.1,"endTime":2801.67,"body":"want you to be really, it takes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2798.1,"endTime":2801.67,"body":"time to do anything. It takes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2801.67,"endTime":2807.91,"body":"time to do anything like this."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2801.67,"endTime":2807.91,"body":"And along the way, it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2808.87,"endTime":2811.33,"body":"it can be frustrating for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2808.87,"endTime":2811.33,"body":"people, I guess that's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2811.33,"endTime":2818.29,"body":"challenge. It is a challenge I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2811.33,"endTime":2818.29,"body":"think for for white men, who are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2818.29,"endTime":2821.32,"body":"thinking, where's my opportunity"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2818.29,"endTime":2821.32,"body":"gonna come from? You know, I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2821.32,"endTime":2824.05,"body":"had people say to me, Well, of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2821.32,"endTime":2824.05,"body":"course, I'm not going to get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2824.05,"endTime":2827.32,"body":"promoted, because I'm a white"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2824.05,"endTime":2827.32,"body":"man. And it's like, well, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2827.32,"endTime":2830.71,"body":"know, it's that quote, of if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2827.32,"endTime":2830.71,"body":"you're, if you're used to your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2830.71,"endTime":2835.39,"body":"privilege, you know equality"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2830.71,"endTime":2835.39,"body":"looks like oppression. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2835.39,"endTime":2840.46,"body":"think that can be can be really,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2835.39,"endTime":2840.46,"body":"you have to recognize it. It's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2840.88,"endTime":2845.71,"body":"I think, what I would try and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2840.88,"endTime":2845.71,"body":"say is, it's mediocre white men"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2845.83,"endTime":2849.1,"body":"are not gonna get promoted,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2845.83,"endTime":2849.1,"body":"right, that's, that's what's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2849.1,"endTime":2853.99,"body":"mostly happening is you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2849.1,"endTime":2853.99,"body":"picking the best people. And now"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2853.99,"endTime":2858.85,"body":"you're actually making sure that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2853.99,"endTime":2858.85,"body":"if those best people aren't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2858.85,"endTime":2862.21,"body":"white men, that you're actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2858.85,"endTime":2862.21,"body":"gonna see them in, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2862.21,"endTime":2865.15,"body":"actually going to consider them."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2862.21,"endTime":2865.15,"body":"And there's definitely an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2865.15,"endTime":2868.81,"body":"element of like changing what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2865.15,"endTime":2868.81,"body":"people think it looks like to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2868.81,"endTime":2875.71,"body":"a leader. You should recognize"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2868.81,"endTime":2875.71,"body":"different, different styles as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2875.71,"endTime":2876.4,"body":"being valid."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2877.06,"endTime":2879.88,"body":"Wow. So we are so"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2877.06,"endTime":2879.88,"body":"nearly at time, I want to just"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2879.88,"endTime":2882.79,"body":"ask you one final question,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2879.88,"endTime":2882.79,"body":"Sarah, before we jump into our"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2882.79,"endTime":2887.23,"body":"kind of wrap up quickfire"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2882.79,"endTime":2887.23,"body":"questions, but you've shared so"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2887.23,"endTime":2889.66,"body":"many amazing stories and"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2887.23,"endTime":2889.66,"body":"experiences of your time at the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2889.66,"endTime":2892.93,"body":"FT now we know that you did"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2889.66,"endTime":2892.93,"body":"recently leave and you're"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2892.93,"endTime":2896.83,"body":"enjoying some time off. But can"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2892.93,"endTime":2896.83,"body":"we ask like, what's gonna come"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2896.83,"endTime":2898.0,"body":"next, do you know?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2898.78,"endTime":2902.95,"body":"Um, yeah, I do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2898.78,"endTime":2902.95,"body":"know, I, I left because I'd been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2902.95,"endTime":2905.92,"body":"there a long time. And I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2902.95,"endTime":2905.92,"body":"quite exhausted, I really did"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2905.92,"endTime":2911.23,"body":"need a bit of a break. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2905.92,"endTime":2911.23,"body":"amazingly, I've agreed to write"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2911.23,"endTime":2917.2,"body":"a book for O'Reilly. So pretty"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2911.23,"endTime":2917.2,"body":"much now I'm going to start, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2917.2,"endTime":2920.38,"body":"going to start writing it. It's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2917.2,"endTime":2920.38,"body":"about microservices. It's called"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2921.04,"endTime":2925.69,"body":"Enabling Microservice Success."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2921.04,"endTime":2925.69,"body":"And it's really, about how"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2925.72,"endTime":2929.41,"body":"microservices, if you want to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2925.72,"endTime":2929.41,"body":"successful, is about more than"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2929.41,"endTime":2933.7,"body":"the technology. It's about the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2929.41,"endTime":2933.7,"body":"organizational cultural setup"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2933.7,"endTime":2937.15,"body":"that you need for that as well."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2933.7,"endTime":2937.15,"body":"So, so I'll be looking at, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2937.15,"endTime":2941.02,"body":"know, what do you need to do?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2937.15,"endTime":2941.02,"body":"And, and where are the things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2941.02,"endTime":2944.77,"body":"that can really trip you up? If"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2941.02,"endTime":2944.77,"body":"you don't, like change the way"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2944.77,"endTime":2947.65,"body":"you think about how you build."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2944.77,"endTime":2947.65,"body":"How you build software"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2948.49,"endTime":2951.07,"body":"Wow, that sounds"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2948.49,"endTime":2951.07,"body":"incredible. I'm very excited to"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2951.07,"endTime":2951.31,"body":"read that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2951.31,"endTime":2953.44,"body":"I am really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2951.31,"endTime":2953.44,"body":"excited. I'm so excited."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2956.41,"endTime":2959.2,"body":"Okay, so we do"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2956.41,"endTime":2959.2,"body":"just have our final quickfire"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2959.47,"endTime":2965.17,"body":"questions to wrap up. So what's"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2959.47,"endTime":2965.17,"body":"your top book recommendation?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2965.99,"endTime":2968.768,"body":"So the two books,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2965.99,"endTime":2968.768,"body":"three books that I always end up"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2968.823,"endTime":2972.046,"body":"recommending to people, and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2968.823,"endTime":2972.046,"body":"noticed, actually, actually,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2972.101,"endTime":2975.435,"body":"within like, looking back at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2972.101,"endTime":2975.435,"body":"your other podcast, people have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2975.491,"endTime":2978.824,"body":"mentioned them Accelerate, Team"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2975.491,"endTime":2978.824,"body":"Topologies and The Manager's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2978.88,"endTime":2982.325,"body":"Path are the three that I often"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2978.88,"endTime":2982.325,"body":"end up recommending to people."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2982.38,"endTime":2985.547,"body":"So I'm going to recommend"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2982.38,"endTime":2985.547,"body":"something different, which is I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2985.603,"endTime":2988.77,"body":"found it's really interesting to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2985.603,"endTime":2988.77,"body":"read things that are not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2988.825,"endTime":2992.215,"body":"specifically sort of aimed at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2988.825,"endTime":2992.215,"body":"software development, and think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2992.27,"endTime":2995.715,"body":"about how they have an impact."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2992.27,"endTime":2995.715,"body":"So two that that I found Inside"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2995.77,"endTime":2999.104,"body":"the Nudge Unit which is about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2995.77,"endTime":2999.104,"body":"behavioral economics in the UK"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2999.16,"endTime":3002.438,"body":"Government. So it's about how do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":2999.16,"endTime":3002.438,"body":"you influence people to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3002.493,"endTime":3005.66,"body":"things. And so things like if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3002.493,"endTime":3005.66,"body":"you put someone's name in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3005.716,"endTime":3009.05,"body":"letter, or if you say 95% of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3005.716,"endTime":3009.05,"body":"people have completed their tax"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3009.105,"endTime":3012.55,"body":"return by the end of November,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3009.105,"endTime":3012.55,"body":"you kind of encourage people to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3012.606,"endTime":3015.828,"body":"do stuff. And it's much cheaper"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3012.606,"endTime":3015.828,"body":"than spending money to, to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3015.884,"endTime":3018.995,"body":"invest in, in more sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3015.884,"endTime":3018.995,"body":"infrastructure or anything. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3019.051,"endTime":3022.329,"body":"find it really interesting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3019.051,"endTime":3022.329,"body":"because it really when I look at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3022.384,"endTime":3025.885,"body":"it, I went, Oh, this is how we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3022.384,"endTime":3025.885,"body":"influence people within software"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3025.94,"endTime":3029.33,"body":"development too you know, this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3025.94,"endTime":3029.33,"body":"is you make it attractive, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3029.385,"endTime":3032.552,"body":"make it easy, you're your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3029.385,"endTime":3032.552,"body":"social, you use that like sense"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3032.608,"endTime":3035.997,"body":"of other people. So it's good."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3032.608,"endTime":3035.997,"body":"It's a good book for that. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3036.053,"endTime":3039.331,"body":"it's based on, there's a book"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3036.053,"endTime":3039.331,"body":"called Nudge Theory. But this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3039.386,"endTime":3042.664,"body":"one is specifically Inside the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3039.386,"endTime":3042.664,"body":"Nudge Unit is more about how"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3042.72,"endTime":3045.942,"body":"government used it. I just found"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3042.72,"endTime":3045.942,"body":"it quite interesting. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3045.998,"endTime":3048.998,"body":"related to that The Checklist"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3045.998,"endTime":3048.998,"body":"Manifesto, which is Atul"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3049.054,"endTime":3052.554,"body":"Gawande. And he's talking about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3049.054,"endTime":3052.554,"body":"how they, how they how they had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3052.61,"endTime":3055.888,"body":"a group of people who wanted to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3052.61,"endTime":3055.888,"body":"improve healthcare outcomes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3055.944,"endTime":3059.333,"body":"across the world. So they didn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3055.944,"endTime":3059.333,"body":"want it to be about spending"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3059.388,"endTime":3062.944,"body":"money, because they wanted it to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3059.388,"endTime":3062.944,"body":"work everywhere. And they found"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3063.0,"endTime":3066.222,"body":"that by borrowing the idea of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3063.0,"endTime":3066.222,"body":"checklists from the aviation"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3066.278,"endTime":3069.501,"body":"industry, you could make a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3066.278,"endTime":3069.501,"body":"significant difference in terms"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3069.556,"endTime":3072.89,"body":"of outcomes for things like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3069.556,"endTime":3072.89,"body":"surgery. And the checklist isn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3072.945,"endTime":3076.446,"body":"here's how you do it, it's here"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3072.945,"endTime":3076.446,"body":"are things that if you do that,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3076.501,"endTime":3079.891,"body":"you may not automatically think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3076.501,"endTime":3079.891,"body":"about but that just gives you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3079.946,"endTime":3083.502,"body":"more of a chance for success. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3079.946,"endTime":3083.502,"body":"for example, if a surgical team"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3083.558,"endTime":3087.002,"body":"introduced themselves to each"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3083.558,"endTime":3087.002,"body":"other, and tell each other their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3087.058,"endTime":3090.392,"body":"names before they start the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3087.058,"endTime":3090.392,"body":"surgery, it's more likely things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3090.447,"endTime":3093.837,"body":"won't go wrong, because it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3090.447,"endTime":3093.837,"body":"more likely people will speak up"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3093.892,"endTime":3097.281,"body":"when they see something. Like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3093.892,"endTime":3097.281,"body":"when they see someone trying to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3097.337,"endTime":3100.782,"body":"cut the wrong leg off, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3097.337,"endTime":3100.782,"body":"it's like, you know, you know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3100.837,"endTime":3104.282,"body":"the name of the surgeon, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3100.837,"endTime":3104.282,"body":"able to, you're more likely, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3104.338,"endTime":3107.616,"body":"mean, this sounds silly, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3104.338,"endTime":3107.616,"body":"this is the kind of thing that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3107.671,"endTime":3110.672,"body":"can get rid of those stupid"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3107.671,"endTime":3110.672,"body":"mistakes. So it's a really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3110.727,"endTime":3114.116,"body":"interesting book, it's not very,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3110.727,"endTime":3114.116,"body":"it's not very long, I always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3114.172,"endTime":3117.172,"body":"like books that aren't super"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3114.172,"endTime":3117.172,"body":"long to read. And you can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3117.228,"endTime":3120.45,"body":"totally see again, how that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3117.228,"endTime":3120.45,"body":"impacts how you could use that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3120.506,"endTime":3121.84,"body":"in software development."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3123.06,"endTime":3125.7,"body":"Great"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3123.06,"endTime":3125.7,"body":"recommendations. Okay, so number"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3125.7,"endTime":3129.06,"body":"two, then What are Who is your"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3125.7,"endTime":3129.06,"body":"number one tip for keeping up"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3129.06,"endTime":3129.9,"body":"with the industry."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3130.68,"endTime":3134.85,"body":"So I just find"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3130.68,"endTime":3134.85,"body":"Twitter, like Twitter works for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3134.85,"endTime":3139.17,"body":"me, like, I think you can curate"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3134.85,"endTime":3139.17,"body":"the people that you follow. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3139.17,"endTime":3145.02,"body":"it's quite sort of bite size and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3139.17,"endTime":3145.02,"body":"you see people you know, saying"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3145.02,"endTime":3147.96,"body":"something that makes you think,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3145.02,"endTime":3147.96,"body":"or they provide a link and as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3147.96,"endTime":3150.54,"body":"long as you find a way to kind"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3147.96,"endTime":3150.54,"body":"of squirrel those away so you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3150.54,"endTime":3155.19,"body":"can go back to them later I find"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3150.54,"endTime":3155.19,"body":"I've found that a really good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3155.19,"endTime":3158.58,"body":"way for me to to keep up to date"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3155.19,"endTime":3158.58,"body":"with what's going on in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3158.58,"endTime":3159.87,"body":"industry, basically."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3161.7,"endTime":3164.25,"body":"And then number"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3161.7,"endTime":3164.25,"body":"three is Who inspires you."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3164.88,"endTime":3173.13,"body":"Um, so I I want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3164.88,"endTime":3173.13,"body":"say Tanya Reilly because she is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3173.94,"endTime":3180.72,"body":"so good at telling a story about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3173.94,"endTime":3180.72,"body":"technology. And her talk and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3180.72,"endTime":3184.38,"body":"blogpost about glue work is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3180.72,"endTime":3184.38,"body":"something that I recommend to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3184.38,"endTime":3189.84,"body":"people frequently because so so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3184.38,"endTime":3189.84,"body":"the idea is that glue work is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3189.84,"endTime":3193.95,"body":"stuff that's important. But it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3189.84,"endTime":3193.95,"body":"not necessarily something that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3193.95,"endTime":3197.04,"body":"companies promote people for. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3193.95,"endTime":3197.04,"body":"you need to be really conscious"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3197.04,"endTime":3200.43,"body":"if you're doing that glue work"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3197.04,"endTime":3200.43,"body":"you know like organizing stuff,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3200.43,"endTime":3203.7,"body":"fixing small problems, being the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3200.43,"endTime":3203.7,"body":"person that documents things,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3203.7,"endTime":3207.78,"body":"you need to make sure that it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3203.7,"endTime":3207.78,"body":"recognized in your organization"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3207.81,"endTime":3210.72,"body":"as something of value and you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3207.81,"endTime":3210.72,"body":"know at the Financial Times"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3210.72,"endTime":3213.84,"body":"people will will say this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3210.72,"endTime":3213.84,"body":"glue work I want some you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3213.84,"endTime":3217.65,"body":"I want to find someone different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3213.84,"endTime":3217.65,"body":"to pick this one up. So I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3218.43,"endTime":3222.27,"body":"I just I really, I really like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3218.43,"endTime":3222.27,"body":"Tanya I find her like very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3222.27,"endTime":3225.36,"body":"engaging and she's writing a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3222.27,"endTime":3225.36,"body":"book at the moment about staff"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3225.36,"endTime":3227.88,"body":"plus path and it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3225.36,"endTime":3227.88,"body":"excellent."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3228.74,"endTime":3232.55,"body":"Fantastic. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3228.74,"endTime":3232.55,"body":"great. Another book. Okay, then"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3232.55,"endTime":3234.89,"body":"we have our final question. This"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3232.55,"endTime":3234.89,"body":"is a special one for you Sarah"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3234.89,"endTime":3239.99,"body":"because we know you are a very"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3234.89,"endTime":3239.99,"body":"keen cook. So what is your"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3239.99,"endTime":3241.58,"body":"favorite dish to cook?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3241.9,"endTime":3248.29,"body":"Ah, um so yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3241.9,"endTime":3248.29,"body":"basically lock down has totally"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3248.65,"endTime":3251.92,"body":"got me into like, elaborate,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3248.65,"endTime":3251.92,"body":"elaborate cooking because I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3251.92,"endTime":3255.91,"body":"not like commuting back from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3251.92,"endTime":3255.91,"body":"London. The two things so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3255.91,"endTime":3261.52,"body":"recently pasta we've been making"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3255.91,"endTime":3261.52,"body":"pasta so like actually making"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3261.52,"endTime":3265.06,"body":"ravioli which has just been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3261.52,"endTime":3265.06,"body":"really good fun. But before that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3265.06,"endTime":3270.25,"body":"it was it we got really into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3265.06,"endTime":3270.25,"body":"cooking sichuan Chinese"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3270.6,"endTime":3273.81,"body":"We bought this book"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3270.6,"endTime":3273.81,"body":"called Every Grain of Rice by"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3270.61,"endTime":3270.94,"body":"Wow"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3273.81,"endTime":3276.9,"body":"Fuchsia Dunlop and just started"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3273.81,"endTime":3276.9,"body":"cooking things from it and it is"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3277.23,"endTime":3280.5,"body":"absolutely fantastic. It's"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3277.23,"endTime":3280.5,"body":"really hot. Generally, like"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3280.5,"endTime":3285.27,"body":"there's a lot of different chili"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3280.5,"endTime":3285.27,"body":"in in the recipes but like we"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3285.27,"endTime":3287.61,"body":"often cook it and  look at the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3285.27,"endTime":3287.61,"body":"things you've cooked and go. I"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3287.85,"endTime":3290.64,"body":"can't believe we've cooked that"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3287.85,"endTime":3290.64,"body":"it actually looks like we know"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3290.64,"endTime":3291.3,"body":"what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3296.16,"endTime":3298.59,"body":"Okay, so then"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3296.16,"endTime":3298.59,"body":"finally, Sarah, where can people"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3298.59,"endTime":3299.79,"body":"find out more about you?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3301.7,"endTime":3305.63,"body":"Twitter. So I'm on."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3301.7,"endTime":3305.63,"body":"I'm on Twitter, @sarahjwells."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3305.87,"endTime":3310.1,"body":"That's probably that's probably"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3305.87,"endTime":3310.1,"body":"the best way. So I literally I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3310.1,"endTime":3315.14,"body":"literally bought myself a domain"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3310.1,"endTime":3315.14,"body":"to set up a blog about three"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3315.14,"endTime":3321.17,"body":"years ago and I still haven't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3315.14,"endTime":3321.17,"body":"published a blog post. So it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3321.17,"endTime":3322.76,"body":"turns out I need a deadline,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3321.17,"endTime":3322.76,"body":"basically."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3324.53,"endTime":3327.77,"body":"Fantastic. Well,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3324.53,"endTime":3327.77,"body":"thank you so much Sarah, this"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3327.77,"endTime":3331.49,"body":"has been incredible, like so"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3327.77,"endTime":3331.49,"body":"many great stories. So lovely to"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3331.49,"endTime":3334.7,"body":"hear about, like all the things"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3331.49,"endTime":3334.7,"body":"you've achieved at the FT. And I"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3334.7,"endTime":3337.13,"body":"mean, like, congratulations, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3334.7,"endTime":3337.13,"body":"think well done, because it"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3337.13,"endTime":3340.13,"body":"sounds like you and the rest of"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3337.13,"endTime":3340.13,"body":"the team, but you've really made"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3340.13,"endTime":3343.01,"body":"some massive changes there. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3340.13,"endTime":3343.01,"body":"yeah, thanks for sharing about"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3343.01,"endTime":3343.13,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3343.49,"endTime":3344.69,"body":"Well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wells","startTime":3343.49,"endTime":3344.69,"body":"It's been a pleasure."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":3345.26,"endTime":3346.01,"body":"Thanks a lot,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":3345.26,"endTime":3346.01,"body":"Sarah."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3349.13,"endTime":3351.11,"body":"We'll be sharing"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3349.13,"endTime":3351.11,"body":"all the links and show notes"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3351.14,"endTime":3356.12,"body":"plus the all important doodle"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3351.14,"endTime":3356.12,"body":"over on humansplus.tech. I'm Amy"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3356.12,"endTime":3359.63,"body":"Phillips. This is Aaron Randall,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3356.12,"endTime":3359.63,"body":"and you've been listening to the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":3359.66,"endTime":3361.13,"body":"Humans+Tech podcast."}]}