{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1.47,"endTime":4.59,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1.47,"endTime":4.59,"body":"Humans+Tech podcast. I'm Amy"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":4.59,"endTime":6.33,"body":"Phillips, and this is Aaron"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":4.59,"endTime":6.33,"body":"Randall."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":6.63,"endTime":7.17,"body":"Hi."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":7.98,"endTime":10.14,"body":"Today, we're very"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":7.98,"endTime":10.14,"body":"excited to be talking to the one"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":10.14,"endTime":13.74,"body":"and only Chris Evans. So I first"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":10.14,"endTime":13.74,"body":"met Chris when he was working as"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":13.74,"endTime":16.47,"body":"a Technical Product Manager, and"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":13.74,"endTime":16.47,"body":"leading the platform team at"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":16.47,"endTime":19.47,"body":"MOO. He then went on to be the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":16.47,"endTime":19.47,"body":"Director for Platform"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":19.47,"endTime":23.04,"body":"Reliability at Monzo, before"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":19.47,"endTime":23.04,"body":"becoming co-founder and Chief"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":23.04,"endTime":26.94,"body":"Product Officer at Incident.io."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":23.04,"endTime":26.94,"body":"Chris is also a regular"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":26.94,"endTime":29.4,"body":"conference speaker, and author"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":26.94,"endTime":29.4,"body":"of a number of articles about"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":29.4,"endTime":32.67,"body":"Incident Management and"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":29.4,"endTime":32.67,"body":"observability. So Chris, welcome"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":32.67,"endTime":33.12,"body":"to the show."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":33.75,"endTime":35.7,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":33.75,"endTime":35.7,"body":"having me, I need to pick you up"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":35.7,"endTime":37.89,"body":"on one thing straight away,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":35.7,"endTime":37.89,"body":"which is you said the one and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":37.89,"endTime":41.34,"body":"only Chris Evans, and there are"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":37.89,"endTime":41.34,"body":"literally two very famous Chris"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":41.34,"endTime":45.15,"body":"Evans's in the world. So you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":41.34,"endTime":45.15,"body":"failed straightaway, Amy."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":46.35,"endTime":48.96,"body":"Clearly you are"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":46.35,"endTime":48.96,"body":"the more better known"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":49.28,"endTime":50.3,"body":"Of course, of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":49.28,"endTime":50.3,"body":"course."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":52.28,"endTime":54.77,"body":"So great to have"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":52.28,"endTime":54.77,"body":"you here. Now, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":54.8,"endTime":57.11,"body":"that as you know, we'd like to"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":54.8,"endTime":57.11,"body":"do with all of our Humans+Tech"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":57.32,"endTime":61.34,"body":"guests is draw a doodle of them."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":57.32,"endTime":61.34,"body":"So we're going to show you"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":61.34,"endTime":65.09,"body":"yours, and we'd love to get your"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":61.34,"endTime":65.09,"body":"thoughts on on your doodle."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":65.39,"endTime":71.87,"body":"I'm actually really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":65.39,"endTime":71.87,"body":"nervous. I'll take it. I like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":71.87,"endTime":72.23,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":73.2,"endTime":74.49,"body":"You sound"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":73.2,"endTime":74.49,"body":"surprised?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":74.51,"endTime":76.37,"body":"Well, can I can I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":74.51,"endTime":76.37,"body":"be honest about the thing that I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":76.37,"endTime":80.21,"body":"think is like was stressing me"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":76.37,"endTime":80.21,"body":"out, which is that I sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":80.21,"endTime":82.43,"body":"don't think I have any"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":80.21,"endTime":82.43,"body":"particularly distinguishing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":82.43,"endTime":86.96,"body":"features. Like, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":82.43,"endTime":86.96,"body":"wear like certain shape glasses,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":86.99,"endTime":89.36,"body":"or you've got something that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":86.99,"endTime":89.36,"body":"sort of like, yeah, that's the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":89.36,"endTime":93.23,"body":"person I think I'm actually"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":89.36,"endTime":93.23,"body":"quite bland looking. So I'll"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":93.23,"endTime":95.96,"body":"take it and I like I really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":93.23,"endTime":95.96,"body":"appreciate the little flame."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":97.46,"endTime":98.48,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":98.0,"endTime":99.38,"body":"Yeah, we do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":98.0,"endTime":99.38,"body":"struggle with this. Everyone"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":99.38,"endTime":103.97,"body":"looks like a sausage. So we've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":99.38,"endTime":103.97,"body":"struggled to make it's not you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":103.97,"endTime":105.89,"body":"it's everyone. My drawings are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":103.97,"endTime":105.89,"body":"very bad."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":109.46,"endTime":110.27,"body":"Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":109.46,"endTime":110.27,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":110.93,"endTime":113.72,"body":"Hey, you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":110.93,"endTime":113.72,"body":"welcome. So I want to dive"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":113.72,"endTime":116.36,"body":"straight in and talk a bit more"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":113.72,"endTime":116.36,"body":"about the idea for Incident.io."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":116.75,"endTime":119.39,"body":"So I know this idea came from an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":116.75,"endTime":119.39,"body":"internal project you built"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":119.42,"endTime":122.12,"body":"whilst working at Monzo. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":119.42,"endTime":122.12,"body":"that the project was called"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":122.12,"endTime":125.66,"body":"Response, an open source tool"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":122.12,"endTime":125.66,"body":"you built, how did Incident.io"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":125.66,"endTime":128.03,"body":"come about? And for those who"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":125.66,"endTime":128.03,"body":"haven't heard about it, what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":128.03,"endTime":129.2,"body":"does Incident.io do?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":129.87,"endTime":132.27,"body":"Yeah, good"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":129.87,"endTime":132.27,"body":"question, I guess, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":132.27,"endTime":134.7,"body":"actually, I think I should"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":132.27,"endTime":134.7,"body":"probably like be very honest and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":134.7,"endTime":139.11,"body":"credit, the very, very early"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":134.7,"endTime":139.11,"body":"inception of like, this kind of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":139.11,"endTime":143.58,"body":"tooling to when Amy and I were"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":139.11,"endTime":143.58,"body":"at MOO, I think it was Ron, who"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":143.58,"endTime":146.34,"body":"built the very, very first"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":143.58,"endTime":146.34,"body":"version here, which was like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":146.61,"endTime":150.48,"body":"this super simple tool that used"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":146.61,"endTime":150.48,"body":"to create a channel for us when"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":150.48,"endTime":153.57,"body":"we had an incident. And it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":150.48,"endTime":153.57,"body":"like, suddenly, like we had a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":153.57,"endTime":156.36,"body":"space to collaborate in and it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":153.57,"endTime":156.36,"body":"was like a slash command and was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":156.36,"endTime":160.71,"body":"this magical thing. But yes, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":156.36,"endTime":160.71,"body":"guess like fast forwarding to a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":160.71,"endTime":165.69,"body":"little bit to Monzo. I, I picked"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":160.71,"endTime":165.69,"body":"up along with like running"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":165.69,"endTime":168.87,"body":"platform, the responsibility"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":165.69,"endTime":168.87,"body":"over the on call team. And as"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":168.87,"endTime":172.26,"body":"part of that I was sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":168.87,"endTime":172.26,"body":"trying to trying to make on call"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":172.26,"endTime":175.47,"body":"an appealing thing for people to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":172.26,"endTime":175.47,"body":"join. And part of the reason"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":175.47,"endTime":178.32,"body":"they weren't joining was because"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":175.47,"endTime":178.32,"body":"incidents were like quite"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":178.32,"endTime":180.72,"body":"painful, or quite chaotic, it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":178.32,"endTime":180.72,"body":"was a bank, it was very"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":180.72,"endTime":183.42,"body":"stressful, you know, you could"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":180.72,"endTime":183.42,"body":"have like MasterCard, not"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":183.42,"endTime":187.56,"body":"working and people couldn't make"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":183.42,"endTime":187.56,"body":"card payments. So I wrote the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":187.56,"endTime":191.37,"body":"very first version of the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":187.56,"endTime":191.37,"body":"tooling there, to basically just"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":191.37,"endTime":194.73,"body":"try and try and get some folks"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":191.37,"endTime":194.73,"body":"to join the on call rotation and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":194.73,"endTime":197.97,"body":"help out a little bit. And it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":194.73,"endTime":197.97,"body":"went sort of from strength to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":197.97,"endTime":200.46,"body":"strength within Monzo. So what"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":197.97,"endTime":200.46,"body":"started as something that sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":200.46,"endTime":203.28,"body":"of created a channel and then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":200.46,"endTime":203.28,"body":"pinged out a notification to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":203.28,"endTime":205.77,"body":"say, hey, an incident's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":203.28,"endTime":205.77,"body":"happening, then sort of got more"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":205.77,"endTime":208.29,"body":"complex, and it started doing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":205.77,"endTime":208.29,"body":"some more interesting things for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":208.29,"endTime":211.77,"body":"us, like, you know, pinging data"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":208.29,"endTime":211.77,"body":"privacy folks when we were"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":211.77,"endTime":214.92,"body":"mentioning the word 'data"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":211.77,"endTime":214.92,"body":"breach', and sort of slowly sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":214.92,"endTime":217.32,"body":"of adding these various"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":214.92,"endTime":217.32,"body":"different like, automations on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":217.32,"endTime":221.37,"body":"top of, on top of the incident"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":217.32,"endTime":221.37,"body":"response. So, you know, nothing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":221.37,"endTime":224.1,"body":"like crazy, like go and turn the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":221.37,"endTime":224.1,"body":"server off or turn it on again,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":224.1,"endTime":227.7,"body":"but just like processey type"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":224.1,"endTime":227.7,"body":"things. And that was sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":227.73,"endTime":230.28,"body":"then adopted across the whole of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":227.73,"endTime":230.28,"body":"Monzo. And so Monzo went from a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":230.28,"endTime":233.13,"body":"place where incidents sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":230.28,"endTime":233.13,"body":"were things that happened in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":233.13,"endTime":235.98,"body":"technology, and they happened,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":233.13,"endTime":235.98,"body":"you know, once a once a month,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":235.98,"endTime":239.67,"body":"maybe or once a week, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":235.98,"endTime":239.67,"body":"at worst. By the time I left"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":239.67,"endTime":243.27,"body":"Monzo, we were having something"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":239.67,"endTime":243.27,"body":"in the region of like 10 to 20"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":243.27,"endTime":246.42,"body":"incidents a day. And that sounds"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":243.27,"endTime":246.42,"body":"incredibly scary. And I should"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":246.42,"endTime":249.63,"body":"sort of like point out that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":246.42,"endTime":249.63,"body":"Monzo is not an unsafe place to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":249.63,"endTime":252.69,"body":"put your money or doing anything"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":249.63,"endTime":252.69,"body":"wrong. What they've done is like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":252.69,"endTime":255.54,"body":"lowered the bar for incidents."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":252.69,"endTime":255.54,"body":"So they've made it that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":255.72,"endTime":259.65,"body":"incidents were basically"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":255.72,"endTime":259.65,"body":"anything that was sort of, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":259.65,"endTime":263.34,"body":"know, not in the normal course"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":259.65,"endTime":263.34,"body":"of business. So, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":263.34,"endTime":265.65,"body":"could be like a customer"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":263.34,"endTime":265.65,"body":"operations person posted"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":265.65,"endTime":268.08,"body":"something in a channel that they"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":265.65,"endTime":268.08,"body":"shouldn't have done that sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":268.32,"endTime":271.62,"body":"way to delete a message and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":268.32,"endTime":271.62,"body":"clean it up or, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":271.77,"endTime":274.11,"body":"rolled out a thing and had to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":271.77,"endTime":274.11,"body":"roll it back. It was basically"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":274.11,"endTime":276.78,"body":"anything that needed to be like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":274.11,"endTime":276.78,"body":"picked up that was reactive with"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":276.78,"endTime":281.64,"body":"some degree of urgency. And so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":276.78,"endTime":281.64,"body":"this was sort of like the aha"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":281.64,"endTime":284.85,"body":"moment for us. And so Pete,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":281.64,"endTime":284.85,"body":"Stephen and myself as the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":284.85,"endTime":287.85,"body":"founding team of incident.io,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":284.85,"endTime":287.85,"body":"started working on like an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":287.85,"endTime":290.97,"body":"evenings and weekends project to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":287.85,"endTime":290.97,"body":"turn what I'd written internally"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":290.97,"endTime":295.77,"body":"at Monzo into a product that we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":290.97,"endTime":295.77,"body":"thought could be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":295.8,"endTime":298.95,"body":"saleable elsewhere and, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":295.8,"endTime":298.95,"body":"know, it was like the pandemic"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":298.95,"endTime":301.56,"body":"was going on and it will was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":298.95,"endTime":301.56,"body":"like, cool, this is something"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":301.56,"endTime":305.61,"body":"fun to do. And then it sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":301.56,"endTime":305.61,"body":"snowballed from there. And you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":305.61,"endTime":307.8,"body":"know, what was then an evenings"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":305.61,"endTime":307.8,"body":"and weekends project sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":307.8,"endTime":310.59,"body":"became more and more, more and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":307.8,"endTime":310.59,"body":"more of a sort of time consuming"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":310.59,"endTime":313.02,"body":"thing. We started selling to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":310.59,"endTime":313.02,"body":"customers. And so there was sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":313.02,"endTime":316.23,"body":"of like regular late night or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":313.02,"endTime":316.23,"body":"early morning calls to sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":316.23,"endTime":319.86,"body":"sell this product, start making"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":316.23,"endTime":319.86,"body":"some traction. And then, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":319.92,"endTime":322.23,"body":"the rest is sort of history"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":319.92,"endTime":322.23,"body":"we've been growing ever since."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":322.23,"endTime":325.11,"body":"And yeah, product's been getting"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":322.23,"endTime":325.11,"body":"better and better. It's really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":325.11,"endTime":325.59,"body":"exciting."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":326.07,"endTime":328.62,"body":"Amazing. And what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":326.07,"endTime":328.62,"body":"was that? what point did it dawn"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":328.62,"endTime":330.78,"body":"on you that this project was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":328.62,"endTime":330.78,"body":"actually a company building"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":330.78,"endTime":333.36,"body":"opportunity? And also a follow"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":330.78,"endTime":333.36,"body":"up question, I'd love to hear"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":333.36,"endTime":337.17,"body":"more about how that snowball"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":333.36,"endTime":337.17,"body":"sort of began to grow. I guess,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":337.17,"endTime":339.03,"body":"from the evening and weekend"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":337.17,"endTime":339.03,"body":"project, to something customers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":339.03,"endTime":339.69,"body":"are paying for."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":340.26,"endTime":342.99,"body":"Yeah, maybe it's a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":340.26,"endTime":342.99,"body":"bit of an unfair reflection to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":342.99,"endTime":345.36,"body":"say that it was an aha moment,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":342.99,"endTime":345.36,"body":"because I don't think I don't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":345.36,"endTime":347.49,"body":"think it wasn't, it wasn't sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":345.36,"endTime":347.49,"body":"of like, you know, we were in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":347.49,"endTime":349.98,"body":"the lift one day, and suddenly,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":347.49,"endTime":349.98,"body":"it was like, you know what, this"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":349.98,"endTime":353.04,"body":"is a thing. But I think it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":349.98,"endTime":353.04,"body":"more like, I think the three of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":353.04,"endTime":355.17,"body":"us have all kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":353.04,"endTime":355.17,"body":"we've all worked in technology,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":355.17,"endTime":358.38,"body":"our whole careers. And for me,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":355.17,"endTime":358.38,"body":"certainly I know, it's very"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":358.38,"endTime":361.53,"body":"similar for Pete and Stephen,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":358.38,"endTime":361.53,"body":"like I have dreamt of running a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":361.53,"endTime":364.23,"body":"technology company, or, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":361.53,"endTime":364.23,"body":"know, building something from"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":364.23,"endTime":367.89,"body":"the ground up. Like, it's sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":364.23,"endTime":367.89,"body":"of like the dream situation for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":367.89,"endTime":370.53,"body":"me to be able to, not just not"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":367.89,"endTime":370.53,"body":"just about like working for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":370.53,"endTime":374.67,"body":"myself, but to sort of just take"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":370.53,"endTime":374.67,"body":"something from, from nothing to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":374.67,"endTime":377.76,"body":"something, you know, we had"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":374.67,"endTime":377.76,"body":"pretty mild aspirations. In"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":377.76,"endTime":380.01,"body":"those early days, we were sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":377.76,"endTime":380.01,"body":"of thinking of bootstrapping a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":380.01,"endTime":382.26,"body":"thing. And like just being like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":380.01,"endTime":382.26,"body":"well, this could be a good"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":382.26,"endTime":386.85,"body":"lifestyle business never have to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":382.26,"endTime":386.85,"body":"work again. But yeah, so it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":386.85,"endTime":389.49,"body":"more of a sort of a slow, like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":386.85,"endTime":389.49,"body":"Hey, this is actually a thing."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":389.49,"endTime":392.82,"body":"And it's sort of, you know, came"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":389.49,"endTime":392.82,"body":"to that. And then I think when"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":392.82,"endTime":396.45,"body":"it came to like, the snowballing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":392.82,"endTime":396.45,"body":"thing, it was basically, we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":396.45,"endTime":399.75,"body":"launched the website, when the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":396.45,"endTime":399.75,"body":"product was in like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":399.78,"endTime":403.2,"body":"incredible infancy. So it did"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":399.78,"endTime":403.2,"body":"sort of basic things that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":403.2,"endTime":407.04,"body":"Response did, that was Monzo's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":403.2,"endTime":407.04,"body":"open source tool. It was a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":407.04,"endTime":409.86,"body":"complete rewrite different"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":407.04,"endTime":409.86,"body":"languages, but sort of did a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":409.86,"endTime":412.17,"body":"similar thing of creating some"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":409.86,"endTime":412.17,"body":"channels, letting some folks"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":412.17,"endTime":416.4,"body":"know, and a very, very basic web"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":412.17,"endTime":416.4,"body":"interface. But yeah, we put the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":416.4,"endTime":419.1,"body":"website up, and then had like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":416.4,"endTime":419.1,"body":"immediately a bunch of sort of,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":419.1,"endTime":422.19,"body":"like, posted on social media,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":419.1,"endTime":422.19,"body":"and, like, immediately had a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":422.19,"endTime":424.83,"body":"bunch of inbound. And it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":422.19,"endTime":424.83,"body":"like that, that was kind of an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":424.83,"endTime":427.65,"body":"aha moment, which is like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":424.83,"endTime":427.65,"body":"cool, we've put a thing out,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":427.8,"endTime":430.26,"body":"sort of, like focused on the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":427.8,"endTime":430.26,"body":"branding side of things, we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":430.26,"endTime":433.23,"body":"bought a domain that was kind of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":430.26,"endTime":433.23,"body":"cool. And there was just a lot"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":433.23,"endTime":436.02,"body":"of like traction from from our"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":433.23,"endTime":436.02,"body":"network. Basically, if people"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":436.02,"endTime":438.66,"body":"were like, cool, we have a thing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":436.02,"endTime":438.66,"body":"similar our company that does"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":438.66,"endTime":441.72,"body":"this, or, you know, we have a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":438.66,"endTime":441.72,"body":"manual process written down on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":441.72,"endTime":444.6,"body":"paper, and this looks great."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":441.72,"endTime":444.6,"body":"Like it would help solve that."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":444.63,"endTime":447.6,"body":"And so then it became a case of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":444.63,"endTime":447.6,"body":"like, starting to figure out how"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":447.6,"endTime":452.04,"body":"to sell, you know, SaaS"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":447.6,"endTime":452.04,"body":"software, you know, B2B and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":452.04,"endTime":454.26,"body":"like, figure all that side of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":452.04,"endTime":454.26,"body":"things out, and it kind of just"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":454.26,"endTime":457.17,"body":"picked up from there. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":454.26,"endTime":457.17,"body":"got first customers sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":457.17,"endTime":459.48,"body":"paying, you know, a few 100"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":457.17,"endTime":459.48,"body":"pounds here and there. And it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":459.48,"endTime":461.55,"body":"was like, yeah, this is great."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":459.48,"endTime":461.55,"body":"This is sort of something's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":461.55,"endTime":462.12,"body":"gonna work."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":462.66,"endTime":465.03,"body":"Amazing. What were"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":462.66,"endTime":465.03,"body":"the sort of things that people,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":465.66,"endTime":467.94,"body":"I suppose, like, what what were"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":465.66,"endTime":467.94,"body":"the problems that you were"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":467.97,"endTime":471.6,"body":"talking about on social media"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":467.97,"endTime":471.6,"body":"that people were jumping in and"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":471.93,"endTime":474.75,"body":"sort of saying, oh, we need that"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":471.93,"endTime":474.75,"body":"like, because I'm always"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":474.75,"endTime":476.97,"body":"surprised, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":474.75,"endTime":476.97,"body":"incident management has been"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":476.97,"endTime":480.51,"body":"around for a long time. But it's"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":476.97,"endTime":480.51,"body":"a long way away from being a"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":480.51,"endTime":483.03,"body":"solved problem. So what were the"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":480.51,"endTime":483.03,"body":"sort of things you saw that"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":483.03,"endTime":485.55,"body":"people were saying, like, these"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":483.03,"endTime":485.55,"body":"are the problems we're having?"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":486.3,"endTime":487.29,"body":"Come help us."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":487.33,"endTime":489.85,"body":"Yeah, that's, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":487.33,"endTime":489.85,"body":"think that's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":489.85,"endTime":492.67,"body":"area, because Incident"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":489.85,"endTime":492.67,"body":"Management has been around for a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":492.67,"endTime":496.15,"body":"long time, most like my whole"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":492.67,"endTime":496.15,"body":"career, things like systems like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":496.15,"endTime":501.7,"body":"PagerDuty have existed Opsgenie,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":496.15,"endTime":501.7,"body":"you know, various different"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":501.7,"endTime":505.12,"body":"software has existed to sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":501.7,"endTime":505.12,"body":"help respond to things going"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":505.12,"endTime":509.32,"body":"wrong. But I think what, what"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":505.12,"endTime":509.32,"body":"our customers were seeing that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":509.32,"endTime":511.51,"body":"was very different. And where we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":509.32,"endTime":511.51,"body":"were sort of going was that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":511.54,"endTime":516.01,"body":"these software platforms were"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":511.54,"endTime":516.01,"body":"places you had to go to do"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":516.01,"endTime":520.18,"body":"things with incident response."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":516.01,"endTime":520.18,"body":"So you know, I got paged at 2am,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":520.18,"endTime":523.21,"body":"for example, and I wanted to go"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":520.18,"endTime":523.21,"body":"get someone else I'd have to go"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":523.21,"endTime":526.09,"body":"and jump back into PagerDuty to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":523.21,"endTime":526.09,"body":"go and like, make someone else's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":526.09,"endTime":529.0,"body":"phone make a noise. But where I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":526.09,"endTime":529.0,"body":"was coordinating, my response"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":529.0,"endTime":532.36,"body":"was not on PagerDuty, I was in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":529.0,"endTime":532.36,"body":"Slack, like most, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":532.36,"endTime":536.05,"body":"technology companies. And so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":532.36,"endTime":536.05,"body":"you'd be sort of like, the hub"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":536.05,"endTime":538.3,"body":"of everything going on incident"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":536.05,"endTime":538.3,"body":"is all founded on good"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":538.3,"endTime":540.25,"body":"communication and the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":538.3,"endTime":540.25,"body":"communications happening in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":540.25,"endTime":543.58,"body":"Slack. And you then have to go"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":540.25,"endTime":543.58,"body":"to PagerDuty to do a thing or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":543.58,"endTime":546.64,"body":"JIRA to log that, you know, an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":543.58,"endTime":546.64,"body":"incident was happening, and then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":546.64,"endTime":549.64,"body":"you'd have a doc somewhere else"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":546.64,"endTime":549.64,"body":"off to the side, which was, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":549.64,"endTime":552.61,"body":"know, where you were tracking"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":549.64,"endTime":552.61,"body":"action items, or who was who was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":552.61,"endTime":555.19,"body":"doing what. And so that was the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":552.61,"endTime":555.19,"body":"thing that really, really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":555.19,"endTime":558.22,"body":"resonated and sort of like, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":555.19,"endTime":558.22,"body":"think the message that we sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":558.22,"endTime":560.86,"body":"of landed on was that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":558.22,"endTime":560.86,"body":"we'll meet you where you are."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":561.1,"endTime":563.8,"body":"And we, you know, incidents are"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":561.1,"endTime":563.8,"body":"already really, really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":563.8,"endTime":567.43,"body":"stressful. You don't want to be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":563.8,"endTime":567.43,"body":"having like more cognitive load"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":567.49,"endTime":570.91,"body":"on you, you want to be basically"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":567.49,"endTime":570.91,"body":"doing as effortless, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":570.91,"endTime":573.4,"body":"effortless experience doing as"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":570.91,"endTime":573.4,"body":"little as possible. And so,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":573.67,"endTime":577.06,"body":"yeah, it was sort of like, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":573.67,"endTime":577.06,"body":"you're already on Slack, we will"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":577.12,"endTime":579.43,"body":"will come in, we will augment"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":577.12,"endTime":579.43,"body":"that process for you take a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":579.43,"endTime":581.29,"body":"bunch of things off of your"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":579.43,"endTime":581.29,"body":"plate, if you need to use"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":581.29,"endTime":584.17,"body":"PagerDuty, you can do that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":581.29,"endTime":584.17,"body":"through Slack as well. And you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":584.17,"endTime":586.99,"body":"can get hold of the right people"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":584.17,"endTime":586.99,"body":"and you know, keep context on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":586.99,"endTime":589.03,"body":"what's going on. And the only"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":586.99,"endTime":589.03,"body":"time you should leave that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":589.03,"endTime":591.85,"body":"channel is if you're actually"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":589.03,"endTime":591.85,"body":"going to wherever it is that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":591.85,"endTime":594.16,"body":"something's going wrong. So to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":591.85,"endTime":594.16,"body":"fix a system or you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":594.16,"endTime":595.57,"body":"jumping to a terminal sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":594.16,"endTime":595.57,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":596.68,"endTime":599.08,"body":"I want to ask you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":596.68,"endTime":599.08,"body":"a bit about that point you made"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":599.08,"endTime":603.07,"body":"about you've always dreamt about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":599.08,"endTime":603.07,"body":"building a tech company from the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":603.07,"endTime":605.59,"body":"ground up, tell us a bit more"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":603.07,"endTime":605.59,"body":"about where the kind of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":605.62,"endTime":608.08,"body":"motivation for that came from"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":605.62,"endTime":608.08,"body":"and how long that has been an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":608.08,"endTime":609.19,"body":"aspiration of yours."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":609.82,"endTime":614.47,"body":"Yeah, I think in in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":609.82,"endTime":614.47,"body":"like it probably like university"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":614.47,"endTime":616.66,"body":"was where I first started"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":614.47,"endTime":616.66,"body":"thinking about it. And that was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":616.69,"endTime":620.2,"body":"mainly motivated by a desire not"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":616.69,"endTime":620.2,"body":"to have to go and interview"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":620.2,"endTime":623.86,"body":"places. If I'm very honest, it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":620.2,"endTime":623.86,"body":"was just like, hey, I started"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":623.86,"endTime":627.13,"body":"thing, and no one can interview"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":623.86,"endTime":627.13,"body":"me. It's my my sort of show."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":627.82,"endTime":629.8,"body":"And here you are"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":627.82,"endTime":629.8,"body":"now, it's not worked out at all."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":629.84,"endTime":637.73,"body":"No. Dammit. So"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":629.84,"endTime":637.73,"body":"yeah, I think, like, fast"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":637.73,"endTime":641.93,"body":"forward a little bit like, for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":637.73,"endTime":641.93,"body":"me, it was, it was, I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":641.93,"endTime":646.28,"body":"just like, very interested. I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":641.93,"endTime":646.28,"body":"mean, I love building clearly."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":646.28,"endTime":648.83,"body":"Right. So that's like the first"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":646.28,"endTime":648.83,"body":"thing. And so that has sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":648.83,"endTime":652.04,"body":"been something I've been able to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":648.83,"endTime":652.04,"body":"do most of my career one way or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":652.04,"endTime":656.3,"body":"another with like technology."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":652.04,"endTime":656.3,"body":"And I think doing that at a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":656.3,"endTime":660.41,"body":"company is like the ultimate"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":656.3,"endTime":660.41,"body":"form of that. And I think like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":660.41,"endTime":662.72,"body":"when I look at my career, when I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":660.41,"endTime":662.72,"body":"sort of moved from place to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":662.72,"endTime":666.95,"body":"place, it has always been,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":662.72,"endTime":666.95,"body":"because I felt like I wasn't,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":667.04,"endTime":669.77,"body":"I'd sort of like plateaued on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":667.04,"endTime":669.77,"body":"like a learning sort of scale,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":669.77,"endTime":673.43,"body":"if you like so had an incredible"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":669.77,"endTime":673.43,"body":"time at MOO working with Amy,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":673.43,"endTime":676.58,"body":"I'd say it's like one of my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":673.43,"endTime":676.58,"body":"career highlights, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":676.58,"endTime":679.1,"body":"what I did, there was what we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":676.58,"endTime":679.1,"body":"did, there was like, do a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":679.1,"endTime":682.28,"body":"massive, massive move of all of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":679.1,"endTime":682.28,"body":"MOOs infrastructure from an on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":682.28,"endTime":685.28,"body":"premise data center into AWS."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":682.28,"endTime":685.28,"body":"And then at the end of that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":685.28,"endTime":688.07,"body":"journey, I sort of felt like it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":685.28,"endTime":688.07,"body":"plateaued a little bit. And we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":688.07,"endTime":690.83,"body":"were back into sort of steady"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":688.07,"endTime":690.83,"body":"state as a company of like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":690.83,"endTime":693.89,"body":"well, now we're here, how do we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":690.83,"endTime":693.89,"body":"optimize and make things better,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":693.89,"endTime":696.02,"body":"and, you know, interesting"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":693.89,"endTime":696.02,"body":"challenges, but I just wanted"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":696.02,"endTime":698.51,"body":"wanted to be pushed a bit"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":696.02,"endTime":698.51,"body":"harder. And so for me, the next"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":698.51,"endTime":701.9,"body":"step was Monzo, which was then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":698.51,"endTime":701.9,"body":"the, you know, do do a similar"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":701.9,"endTime":705.47,"body":"thing to MOO, but on a bigger"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":701.9,"endTime":705.47,"body":"scale, and in a company that's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":705.47,"endTime":709.25,"body":"growing at some astronomical"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":705.47,"endTime":709.25,"body":"rate. And then I think if you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":709.28,"endTime":712.79,"body":"sort of extrapolate all of these"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":709.28,"endTime":712.79,"body":"kind of, sort of situation, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":712.79,"endTime":717.23,"body":"then get to like building a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":712.79,"endTime":717.23,"body":"company where it is just so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":717.23,"endTime":719.84,"body":"hard. And the challenge, like I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":717.23,"endTime":719.84,"body":"didn't go into it sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":719.84,"endTime":723.98,"body":"thinking it would be easy. But I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":719.84,"endTime":723.98,"body":"knew going into it that I would"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":723.98,"endTime":727.1,"body":"learn a lot about everything."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":723.98,"endTime":727.1,"body":"And so it's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":727.1,"endTime":729.47,"body":"now, like when, when we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":727.1,"endTime":729.47,"body":"interview candidates, and we do"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":729.47,"endTime":732.14,"body":"introductions, and it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":729.47,"endTime":732.14,"body":"you know, I'll be like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":732.14,"endTime":735.56,"body":"Chris, I'm working at"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":732.14,"endTime":735.56,"body":"Incident.io, like, CPO is my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":735.56,"endTime":739.58,"body":"title here. But like, really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":735.56,"endTime":739.58,"body":"what I do is, and then I just"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":739.58,"endTime":744.17,"body":"list basically every function of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":739.58,"endTime":744.17,"body":"the company. Yes, I'm like doing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":744.17,"endTime":748.55,"body":"GTM. I'm doing sales, I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":744.17,"endTime":748.55,"body":"marketing, I'm doing like, all"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":748.55,"endTime":752.33,"body":"of these things. And it's both"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":748.55,"endTime":752.33,"body":"like, equal parts terrifying."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":752.33,"endTime":755.18,"body":"But also, like, just incredible"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":752.33,"endTime":755.18,"body":"as is as a learning experience."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":755.18,"endTime":759.08,"body":"Like I genuinely, genuinely"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":755.18,"endTime":759.08,"body":"don't think that there is a sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":759.08,"endTime":763.67,"body":"of more exciting and more sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":759.08,"endTime":763.67,"body":"of fully, like multidisciplinary"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":763.67,"endTime":766.16,"body":"kind of challenge you can pick"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":763.67,"endTime":766.16,"body":"up and try to build a company."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":767.44,"endTime":769.72,"body":"I want to ask a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":767.44,"endTime":769.72,"body":"lot of questions about that. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":769.72,"endTime":771.79,"body":"we've actually got some a theme"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":769.72,"endTime":771.79,"body":"on that a little bit later. But"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":771.85,"endTime":775.6,"body":"before we move on to that, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":771.85,"endTime":775.6,"body":"know, this, this journey has"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":775.6,"endTime":777.97,"body":"transitioned from Monzo to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":775.6,"endTime":777.97,"body":"starting Incident.io and doing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":777.97,"endTime":780.07,"body":"your own thing. And obviously,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":777.97,"endTime":780.07,"body":"with Incident.io, you went down"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":780.07,"endTime":783.61,"body":"a VC route, making that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":780.07,"endTime":783.61,"body":"transition out of Monzo. What"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":783.61,"endTime":786.61,"body":"did it mean to you to have the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":783.61,"endTime":786.61,"body":"Monzo founders, you know, Tom"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":786.61,"endTime":789.16,"body":"and Jonas, invest in your new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":786.61,"endTime":789.16,"body":"business?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":790.02,"endTime":795.15,"body":"Oh, a huge amount,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":790.02,"endTime":795.15,"body":"absolutely huge amount. Like I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":795.15,"endTime":798.72,"body":"think I think those folks"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":795.15,"endTime":798.72,"body":"supporting us was just was just"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":798.72,"endTime":801.36,"body":"massive, and they were so good"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":798.72,"endTime":801.36,"body":"through the whole process. So"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":801.57,"endTime":804.27,"body":"like, we started, as I said, we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":801.57,"endTime":804.27,"body":"started building this company"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":804.27,"endTime":807.45,"body":"while we were at Monzo. And that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":804.27,"endTime":807.45,"body":"was not something we did behind"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":807.45,"endTime":812.04,"body":"closed, closed doors, like Monzo"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":807.45,"endTime":812.04,"body":"has this, you know, very much"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":812.04,"endTime":815.73,"body":"lived value of like, defaulting"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":812.04,"endTime":815.73,"body":"to transparency. And so like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":815.73,"endTime":820.38,"body":"early days, we'd spoken to Jonas"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":815.73,"endTime":820.38,"body":"and been like, Hey, I think by"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":820.38,"endTime":823.2,"body":"letter of like, our contracts,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":820.38,"endTime":823.2,"body":"we're not supposed to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":823.2,"endTime":825.99,"body":"if we start doing work on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":823.2,"endTime":825.99,"body":"something during like, Monzo"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":826.02,"endTime":828.3,"body":"while we're working at Monzo,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":826.02,"endTime":828.3,"body":"there's like a risk that you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":828.3,"endTime":831.63,"body":"can, you can take that off us"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":828.3,"endTime":831.63,"body":"kind of thing or prevent us from"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":831.63,"endTime":834.69,"body":"from doing that. And Jonas was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":831.63,"endTime":834.69,"body":"like, Absolutely not like it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":834.75,"endTime":837.45,"body":"might be in there. But like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":834.75,"endTime":837.45,"body":"practically speaking, you have"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":837.45,"endTime":840.45,"body":"my word this is this is fine for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":837.45,"endTime":840.45,"body":"you to do was really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":840.45,"endTime":844.8,"body":"encouraging. And so, yeah, they"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":840.45,"endTime":844.8,"body":"were just great through that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":844.8,"endTime":847.14,"body":"whole process. They were great"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":844.8,"endTime":847.14,"body":"when it came to like raising our"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":847.14,"endTime":850.26,"body":"round when we had to sort of get"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":847.14,"endTime":850.26,"body":"things from Monzo, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":850.26,"endTime":853.68,"body":"say that this is definitely our"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":850.26,"endTime":853.68,"body":"IP and stuff like that. And then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":853.68,"endTime":857.37,"body":"to have the Tom and Jonas"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":853.68,"endTime":857.37,"body":"basically backing you to like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":857.37,"endTime":860.22,"body":"heavy hitters, when it comes to,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":857.37,"endTime":860.22,"body":"you know, this kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":860.22,"endTime":862.83,"body":"They've they've built an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":860.22,"endTime":862.83,"body":"incredible business out of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":862.83,"endTime":867.45,"body":"Monzo. And it's just sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":862.83,"endTime":867.45,"body":"yeah, very buoying to sort of be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":867.48,"endTime":870.36,"body":"have those folks sort of feeling"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":867.48,"endTime":870.36,"body":"like they're willing to put"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":871.29,"endTime":874.71,"body":"their money where their mouth"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":871.29,"endTime":874.71,"body":"is, and sort of actually, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":874.71,"endTime":876.72,"body":"know, give you give you that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":874.71,"endTime":876.72,"body":"confidence."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":876.0,"endTime":880.56,"body":"It's awesome. It's"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":876.0,"endTime":880.56,"body":"amazing. So I know it's still"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":880.59,"endTime":883.8,"body":"you're still very early days, so"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":880.59,"endTime":883.8,"body":"it feels a little unfair to ask"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":883.8,"endTime":887.52,"body":"you this but still, we can ask"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":883.8,"endTime":887.52,"body":"you again in a few years but"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":887.52,"endTime":890.79,"body":"like what have been your"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":887.52,"endTime":890.79,"body":"challenges so far? Like what are"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":890.79,"endTime":894.99,"body":"the highs and lows in"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":890.79,"endTime":894.99,"body":"Incident.io's history so far?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":894.0,"endTime":900.12,"body":"Oh, wow. That's I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":894.0,"endTime":900.12,"body":"mean, that's that's like It's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":900.12,"endTime":903.15,"body":"like every day there are highs"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":900.12,"endTime":903.15,"body":"and lows and trying to pick"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":903.15,"endTime":904.8,"body":"which of these sort of things"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":903.15,"endTime":904.8,"body":"are"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":905.82,"endTime":907.02,"body":"limit to a week if"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":905.82,"endTime":907.02,"body":"you want."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":907.0,"endTime":912.58,"body":"I mean, like the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":907.0,"endTime":912.58,"body":"highs, I would say, I think"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":912.58,"endTime":917.32,"body":"something that's like really,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":912.58,"endTime":917.32,"body":"really been great for me is like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":917.41,"endTime":920.5,"body":"selling the product now. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":917.41,"endTime":920.5,"body":"this is sort of like, I guess"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":920.5,"endTime":923.83,"body":"the context of where this comes"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":920.5,"endTime":923.83,"body":"from is. So back in the back in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":923.83,"endTime":926.77,"body":"the early days, when we used to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":923.83,"endTime":926.77,"body":"jump on sales calls and to jump"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":926.77,"endTime":929.2,"body":"on and like, someone would be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":926.77,"endTime":929.2,"body":"like, I want to, I want to see"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":929.2,"endTime":931.3,"body":"your product. And you'd be like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":929.2,"endTime":931.3,"body":"cool, well, let's do, let's do a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":931.3,"endTime":933.67,"body":"demo. And we'll do this, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":931.3,"endTime":933.67,"body":"remember being literally"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":933.67,"endTime":937.0,"body":"terrified of these like, to the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":933.67,"endTime":937.0,"body":"point where like, for like 15"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":937.0,"endTime":939.28,"body":"minutes before jumping on the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":937.0,"endTime":939.28,"body":"call with them, I'd be like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":939.28,"endTime":942.07,"body":"pacing up and down outside my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":939.28,"endTime":942.07,"body":"office and sort of like cold"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":942.07,"endTime":944.89,"body":"sweats and that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":942.07,"endTime":944.89,"body":"And then you jump on to the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":944.89,"endTime":947.05,"body":"demo. And I'd be like stressing,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":944.89,"endTime":947.05,"body":"because I'm trying to like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":947.05,"endTime":950.17,"body":"drive, like showing them the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":947.05,"endTime":950.17,"body":"product was talking but also"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":950.17,"endTime":952.96,"body":"listening to them. And then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":950.17,"endTime":952.96,"body":"they'd have objections. And I'd"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":952.96,"endTime":956.17,"body":"be like, I don't know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":952.96,"endTime":956.17,"body":"gonna say here or what to do."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":956.68,"endTime":959.77,"body":"And so that that was like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":956.68,"endTime":959.77,"body":"genuinely a massive, massive"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":959.77,"endTime":963.01,"body":"struggle. And I think where it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":959.77,"endTime":963.01,"body":"now turned around, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":963.01,"endTime":965.32,"body":"literally one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":963.01,"endTime":965.32,"body":"things to do is to jump on a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":965.32,"endTime":969.64,"body":"call with a customer. And I can,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":965.32,"endTime":969.64,"body":"you know, give the product pitch"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":969.64,"endTime":973.84,"body":"basically, in my sleep, I can"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":969.64,"endTime":973.84,"body":"drive the product and like I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":973.84,"endTime":976.81,"body":"so in like, basically, at the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":973.84,"endTime":976.81,"body":"core of it all, I love the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":976.81,"endTime":979.87,"body":"domain, I'm passionate about the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":976.81,"endTime":979.87,"body":"domain, I've felt the problems."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":979.87,"endTime":983.14,"body":"And so I sort of feel like I got"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":979.87,"endTime":983.14,"body":"the cheat codes to selling to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":983.14,"endTime":987.55,"body":"folks. In so much as like, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":983.14,"endTime":987.55,"body":"just sort of, you know, I can"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":987.58,"endTime":991.03,"body":"authentically speak about it,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":987.58,"endTime":991.03,"body":"basically. And so that's been, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":991.03,"endTime":994.27,"body":"would say, like a personal high"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":991.03,"endTime":994.27,"body":"of the company, like more"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":994.27,"endTime":996.55,"body":"general highs for the company,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":994.27,"endTime":996.55,"body":"some of the folks that we've"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":997.06,"endTime":999.97,"body":"managed to get as customers. So"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":997.06,"endTime":999.97,"body":"we have like some incredible"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":999.97,"endTime":1003.33,"body":"customers and some, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":999.97,"endTime":1003.33,"body":"well recognized brands and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1003.33,"endTime":1005.49,"body":"things like that, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1003.33,"endTime":1005.49,"body":"increasingly getting bigger"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1005.49,"endTime":1009.36,"body":"companies coming to us who, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1005.49,"endTime":1009.36,"body":"know, it sort of astonishes me"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1009.36,"endTime":1011.34,"body":"that they are interested. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1009.36,"endTime":1011.34,"body":"then it sort of doubly"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1011.34,"endTime":1014.37,"body":"astonishes me that they see the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1011.34,"endTime":1014.37,"body":"product, they use it and then we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1014.37,"endTime":1018.3,"body":"get incredibly, incredibly good"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1014.37,"endTime":1018.3,"body":"feedback from them, and they are"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1018.3,"endTime":1023.79,"body":"buying it. So that's been"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1018.3,"endTime":1023.79,"body":"amazing. Lows, what's what's a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1023.79,"endTime":1028.92,"body":"good low? I think I think lows"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1023.79,"endTime":1028.92,"body":"for us are maybe some of the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1028.92,"endTime":1032.49,"body":"people that didn't work out. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1028.92,"endTime":1032.49,"body":"I think this is like part of the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1032.49,"endTime":1036.63,"body":"harsh reality of startups is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1032.49,"endTime":1036.63,"body":"that they are, they are very"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1036.63,"endTime":1040.35,"body":"different to normal companies."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1036.63,"endTime":1040.35,"body":"And so and you know, you hire"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1040.35,"endTime":1044.1,"body":"someone, and you're, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1040.35,"endTime":1044.1,"body":"at the time, you're like, well,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1044.1,"endTime":1047.82,"body":"our growth trajectory is like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1044.1,"endTime":1047.82,"body":"you know, sort of this sort of,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1048.18,"endTime":1051.18,"body":"not too steep, steeper line, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1048.18,"endTime":1051.18,"body":"realize I'm doing this on video,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1051.18,"endTime":1055.71,"body":"and people can't see this. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1051.18,"endTime":1055.71,"body":"then and then you know, things"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1055.71,"endTime":1058.74,"body":"change in your traction picks up"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1055.71,"endTime":1058.74,"body":"more, which is a great problem"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1058.74,"endTime":1061.53,"body":"to have. And then you realize"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1058.74,"endTime":1061.53,"body":"that suddenly you're on a much,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1061.53,"endTime":1064.68,"body":"much steeper slope. And so some"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1061.53,"endTime":1064.68,"body":"people who you hire, maybe"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1064.68,"endTime":1068.01,"body":"don't, don't end up working out."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1064.68,"endTime":1068.01,"body":"And that's, that's really hard,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1068.01,"endTime":1070.47,"body":"because these are people you're"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1068.01,"endTime":1070.47,"body":"in such a small team, and it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1070.47,"endTime":1073.92,"body":"feels, you know, very close, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1070.47,"endTime":1073.92,"body":"you go for dinner together, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1073.92,"endTime":1077.7,"body":"you're hustling on deals"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1073.92,"endTime":1077.7,"body":"together. And yeah, so some"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1077.7,"endTime":1080.07,"body":"people have not have not made"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1077.7,"endTime":1080.07,"body":"it. And I think that's that's a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1080.07,"endTime":1083.37,"body":"really tough thing for us, but a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1080.07,"endTime":1083.37,"body":"sort of necessary part of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1083.37,"endTime":1086.79,"body":"keeping a high performance"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1083.37,"endTime":1086.79,"body":"culture. And the great news is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1086.79,"endTime":1089.94,"body":"that folks who haven't haven't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1086.79,"endTime":1089.94,"body":"haven't sort of made it all the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1089.94,"endTime":1093.45,"body":"way through, they have left"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1089.94,"endTime":1093.45,"body":"really amicably and it's sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1093.45,"endTime":1096.48,"body":"of, you know, a mutual thing,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1093.45,"endTime":1096.48,"body":"which is, which is really, sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1096.48,"endTime":1099.96,"body":"of, you know, the sort of small"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1096.48,"endTime":1099.96,"body":"silver lining, I guess on a bad"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1099.96,"endTime":1100.89,"body":"situation."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1100.0,"endTime":1104.95,"body":"Yeah, for sure. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1100.0,"endTime":1104.95,"body":"you mentioned about being"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1104.98,"endTime":1111.55,"body":"passionate about the domain. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1104.98,"endTime":1111.55,"body":"I, I've got so many questions"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1111.55,"endTime":1114.55,"body":"for you. Chris and I have spent"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1111.55,"endTime":1114.55,"body":"quite a lot of time, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1114.55,"endTime":1120.73,"body":"nights I'd say we've spent on"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1114.55,"endTime":1120.73,"body":"incident calls. But tell us a"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1120.73,"endTime":1123.28,"body":"bit about Incident Management,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1120.73,"endTime":1123.28,"body":"like what what does good"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1123.28,"endTime":1124.99,"body":"Incident Management actually"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1123.28,"endTime":1124.99,"body":"look like?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1126.55,"endTime":1130.45,"body":"I think is highly"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1126.55,"endTime":1130.45,"body":"context dependent, which is like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1130.48,"endTime":1133.93,"body":"the ultimate like way to cop out"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1130.48,"endTime":1133.93,"body":"and hedge before you answer a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1133.93,"endTime":1139.18,"body":"question I appreciate. But I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1133.93,"endTime":1139.18,"body":"think it's, it's dependent on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1139.21,"endTime":1142.51,"body":"like, so many different factors."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1139.21,"endTime":1142.51,"body":"But I think at the core of it,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1142.54,"endTime":1145.42,"body":"like, if you look at what an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1142.54,"endTime":1145.42,"body":"incident is an incident is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1145.42,"endTime":1148.39,"body":"something bad has gone wrong,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1145.42,"endTime":1148.39,"body":"and there is some degree of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1148.39,"endTime":1151.72,"body":"urgency to get something fixed."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1148.39,"endTime":1151.72,"body":"And I think what makes incidents"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1151.72,"endTime":1155.17,"body":"different to normal work is that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1151.72,"endTime":1155.17,"body":"urgency puts pressure on people."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1155.56,"endTime":1159.25,"body":"And I think that, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1155.56,"endTime":1159.25,"body":"incidents are certainly treated"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1159.25,"endTime":1162.94,"body":"as the more severe things, what"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1159.25,"endTime":1162.94,"body":"also happens is, you end up sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1162.94,"endTime":1165.7,"body":"of bringing together a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1162.94,"endTime":1165.7,"body":"people who don't normally work"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1165.7,"endTime":1168.55,"body":"together. So you know, in its"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1165.7,"endTime":1168.55,"body":"simplest form, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1168.55,"endTime":1170.83,"body":"customer, if you're a company"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1168.55,"endTime":1170.83,"body":"that does anything with"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1170.83,"endTime":1173.8,"body":"customers, then you're almost"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1170.83,"endTime":1173.8,"body":"certainly going to be putting"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1173.8,"endTime":1177.85,"body":"together customer support folks"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1173.8,"endTime":1177.85,"body":"and people who are dealing with"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1177.85,"endTime":1180.97,"body":"whatever it is that's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1177.85,"endTime":1180.97,"body":"that's broken, and those two"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1180.97,"endTime":1184.57,"body":"teams don't normally meet under"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1180.97,"endTime":1184.57,"body":"normal circumstances. And so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1184.57,"endTime":1187.15,"body":"you've got like, this is the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1184.57,"endTime":1187.15,"body":"sort of like the core of it,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1187.15,"endTime":1190.87,"body":"which is, you know, something's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1187.15,"endTime":1190.87,"body":"gone wrong. Lots of problems."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1191.14,"endTime":1194.08,"body":"People trying to form a team"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1191.14,"endTime":1194.08,"body":"very, very quickly. And so I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1194.08,"endTime":1197.74,"body":"think that's quite a unique sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1194.08,"endTime":1197.74,"body":"of space to be in essentially."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1198.13,"endTime":1202.15,"body":"And so I think good Incident"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1198.13,"endTime":1202.15,"body":"Management looks like having"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1202.18,"endTime":1205.06,"body":"like systems in place that allow"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1202.18,"endTime":1205.06,"body":"you to form that team really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1205.06,"endTime":1209.35,"body":"quickly to, you know, set up"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1205.06,"endTime":1209.35,"body":"some sort of like default rules"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1209.35,"endTime":1212.62,"body":"of engagement and rails for how"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1209.35,"endTime":1212.62,"body":"you'll coordinate that incident."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1213.07,"endTime":1217.27,"body":"And then essentially taking, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1213.07,"endTime":1217.27,"body":"know, a bunch of things off your"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1217.27,"endTime":1220.57,"body":"plate that you know, that have"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1217.27,"endTime":1220.57,"body":"to get done every time and sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1220.57,"endTime":1223.33,"body":"of trying to focus on like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1220.57,"endTime":1223.33,"body":"reducing cognitive burden, so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1223.33,"endTime":1226.57,"body":"that you can focus on whatever"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1223.33,"endTime":1226.57,"body":"it is that's going wrong at the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1226.57,"endTime":1229.45,"body":"time, basically, but like, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1226.57,"endTime":1229.45,"body":"think at the core of all of this"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1229.45,"endTime":1233.23,"body":"is just like, very, very"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1229.45,"endTime":1233.23,"body":"streamlined communication."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1233.53,"endTime":1236.14,"body":"That's really what what these"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1233.53,"endTime":1236.14,"body":"things come down to, because"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1236.5,"endTime":1240.1,"body":"it's so hard to prepare anything"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1236.5,"endTime":1240.1,"body":"for an incident, like you have"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1240.1,"endTime":1243.43,"body":"people who have like playbooks"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1240.1,"endTime":1243.43,"body":"for this and that, but they,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1243.52,"endTime":1246.82,"body":"they sort of, are never going to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1243.52,"endTime":1246.82,"body":"survive contact with reality"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1246.82,"endTime":1250.33,"body":"fully. And so it's all about,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1246.82,"endTime":1250.33,"body":"you know, you know, being"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1250.33,"endTime":1252.13,"body":"prepared to be unprepared."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1250.33,"endTime":1252.13,"body":"Basically."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1252.73,"endTime":1256.12,"body":"You run in early"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1252.73,"endTime":1256.12,"body":"earlier stage business, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1256.12,"endTime":1260.17,"body":"know, a growing startup but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1256.12,"endTime":1260.17,"body":"early stage, and there are lots"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1260.17,"endTime":1265.15,"body":"of those around as well. when's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1260.17,"endTime":1265.15,"body":"the right time for a business,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1265.42,"endTime":1269.11,"body":"like a tech company or a tech"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1265.42,"endTime":1269.11,"body":"team to think about creating"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1269.35,"endTime":1271.93,"body":"kind of this official on call"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1269.35,"endTime":1271.93,"body":"response policy and the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1271.93,"endTime":1273.7,"body":"firefighter rota, and all these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1271.93,"endTime":1273.7,"body":"kind of things that go around"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1273.7,"endTime":1274.48,"body":"incidents?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1275.59,"endTime":1279.1,"body":"Yeah, I think on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1275.59,"endTime":1279.1,"body":"call is an interesting one as a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1279.1,"endTime":1281.77,"body":"sort of like side part of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1279.1,"endTime":1281.77,"body":"incident management. So I think"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1281.8,"endTime":1285.55,"body":"on call, it's, it's one of those"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1281.8,"endTime":1285.55,"body":"things, I think, when your"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1285.55,"endTime":1289.51,"body":"business is dependent on you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1285.55,"endTime":1289.51,"body":"being available, that is, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1289.51,"endTime":1292.63,"body":"know, and dependent, meaning you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1289.51,"endTime":1292.63,"body":"cannot tolerate it being"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1292.63,"endTime":1295.12,"body":"offline, that is your trigger"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1292.63,"endTime":1295.12,"body":"for putting in an on call"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1295.12,"endTime":1299.11,"body":"practice. So, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1295.12,"endTime":1299.11,"body":"you're doing a social media like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1299.11,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"site for cats, for example,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1299.11,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"probably in the early days, when"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1302.44,"endTime":1305.35,"body":"you've got 10 users, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1302.44,"endTime":1305.35,"body":"matter if it breaks at 2am, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1305.35,"endTime":1309.73,"body":"you wake up at 8am and then and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1305.35,"endTime":1309.73,"body":"then fix it. I think as soon as"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1309.73,"endTime":1313.42,"body":"customers are reliant upon"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1309.73,"endTime":1313.42,"body":"something being sort of working,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1313.45,"endTime":1316.27,"body":"that's your trigger for having"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1313.45,"endTime":1316.27,"body":"on call, that's your, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1316.3,"endTime":1321.01,"body":"someone will always be available"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1316.3,"endTime":1321.01,"body":"to support this thing. Sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1321.37,"endTime":1323.8,"body":"incident management, I said, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1321.37,"endTime":1323.8,"body":"said, I'd sort of put it off"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1323.8,"endTime":1326.38,"body":"slightly to the side. And so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1323.8,"endTime":1326.38,"body":"much as there's a lot you can do"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1326.38,"endTime":1329.68,"body":"in the early days without"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1326.38,"endTime":1329.68,"body":"overcomplicating things. And so,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1330.19,"endTime":1333.76,"body":"for example, I would not say"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1330.19,"endTime":1333.76,"body":"that our software is a great fit"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1333.76,"endTime":1338.89,"body":"if you are one team, and you are"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1333.76,"endTime":1338.89,"body":"under 10 people like there is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1338.95,"endTime":1341.5,"body":"very little that can't be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1338.95,"endTime":1341.5,"body":"achieved with a bit of string"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1341.5,"endTime":1344.53,"body":"and sellotape and, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1341.5,"endTime":1344.53,"body":"Slack channel where you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1344.53,"endTime":1348.91,"body":"communicate, I think as soon as"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1344.53,"endTime":1348.91,"body":"you get to the point where, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1348.91,"endTime":1350.86,"body":"know, either incidents are"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1348.91,"endTime":1350.86,"body":"happening frequently, you've got"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1350.86,"endTime":1354.31,"body":"multiple different teams, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1350.86,"endTime":1354.31,"body":"don't spend much time together."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1355.42,"endTime":1358.03,"body":"That's the sort of trigger for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1355.42,"endTime":1358.03,"body":"like, cool, well, that it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1358.03,"endTime":1361.21,"body":"helpful to have a process there"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1358.03,"endTime":1361.21,"body":"and there's, there's obviously"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1361.21,"endTime":1363.97,"body":"like a huge number of benefits"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1361.21,"endTime":1363.97,"body":"off to the side, we have of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1363.97,"endTime":1366.67,"body":"starting to have a more official"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1363.97,"endTime":1366.67,"body":"incident management sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1366.67,"endTime":1370.15,"body":"procedure or way of dealing with"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1366.67,"endTime":1370.15,"body":"things. In so much as once you,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1370.51,"endTime":1372.37,"body":"you know, if you're having"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1370.51,"endTime":1372.37,"body":"things going wrong, or you're"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1372.37,"endTime":1376.36,"body":"being distracted by reactive"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1372.37,"endTime":1376.36,"body":"work often enough, that is, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1376.36,"endTime":1379.33,"body":"know, it's good to be able to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1376.36,"endTime":1379.33,"body":"track that work and incidents or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1379.33,"endTime":1381.76,"body":"if you know, if your policy is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1379.33,"endTime":1381.76,"body":"that we will declare incidents"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1381.76,"endTime":1385.03,"body":"for every sort of time that that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1381.76,"endTime":1385.03,"body":"happens, suddenly you get this"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1385.03,"endTime":1387.88,"body":"visibility into your"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1385.03,"endTime":1387.88,"body":"organization. And so this is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1387.88,"endTime":1390.19,"body":"something like actually, we live"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1387.88,"endTime":1390.19,"body":"and breathe incident.io. So we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1390.4,"endTime":1395.2,"body":"touchwood do not have incidents"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1390.4,"endTime":1395.2,"body":"of like high severity, we have,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1395.74,"endTime":1398.17,"body":"like I could probably count on,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1395.74,"endTime":1398.17,"body":"you know, a few fingers, how"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1398.17,"endTime":1401.17,"body":"many times we've actually been"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1398.17,"endTime":1401.17,"body":"offline or unavailable as an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1401.17,"endTime":1403.33,"body":"application. And when that's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1401.17,"endTime":1403.33,"body":"happened, we've been fortunate"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1403.33,"endTime":1406.03,"body":"enough that we can sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1403.33,"endTime":1406.03,"body":"rollback or restart something"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1406.03,"endTime":1409.24,"body":"and everything comes back. But"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1406.03,"endTime":1409.24,"body":"what we do have is many, many"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1409.24,"endTime":1413.02,"body":"times when little things go"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1409.24,"endTime":1413.02,"body":"wrong, or we have like little"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1413.02,"endTime":1416.98,"body":"errors in the app, and we treat"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1413.02,"endTime":1416.98,"body":"every single one of those"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1416.98,"endTime":1419.89,"body":"incidents. So if a customer is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1416.98,"endTime":1419.89,"body":"like, hey, I tried to do this"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1419.89,"endTime":1423.04,"body":"thing, and it didn't work, they"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1419.89,"endTime":1423.04,"body":"we will treat that as a as an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1423.04,"endTime":1426.7,"body":"incident. We now have incredible"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1423.04,"endTime":1426.7,"body":"insight as to like how much time"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1426.7,"endTime":1430.12,"body":"are we spending, not doing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1426.7,"endTime":1430.12,"body":"proactive kind of strategic"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1430.12,"endTime":1434.11,"body":"work? And who's who's the person"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1430.12,"endTime":1434.11,"body":"jumping into all of those"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1434.11,"endTime":1437.83,"body":"incidents? And, you know, what's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1434.11,"endTime":1437.83,"body":"the impact like on those"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1437.83,"endTime":1440.14,"body":"incidents, are they bad things?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1437.83,"endTime":1440.14,"body":"Are they small things? And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1440.14,"endTime":1442.69,"body":"suddenly you get this sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1440.14,"endTime":1442.69,"body":"like insight that you didn't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1442.69,"endTime":1444.46,"body":"previously have into your"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1442.69,"endTime":1444.46,"body":"organization."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1446.62,"endTime":1448.78,"body":"What's the like"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1446.62,"endTime":1448.78,"body":"for companies that aren't"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1448.81,"endTime":1452.95,"body":"currently doing that, like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1448.81,"endTime":1452.95,"body":"what's the correct way to start"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1453.25,"endTime":1455.65,"body":"looking for those patterns? So"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1453.25,"endTime":1455.65,"body":"that, you know, it doesn't feel"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1455.65,"endTime":1459.25,"body":"like blamey that like this"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1455.65,"endTime":1459.25,"body":"person did 10 incidents, and"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1459.25,"endTime":1462.28,"body":"this other person just did one"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1459.25,"endTime":1462.28,"body":"or, you know, this person broke"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1462.28,"endTime":1465.34,"body":"this server three times last"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1462.28,"endTime":1465.34,"body":"week. How do you actually gather"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1465.34,"endTime":1467.74,"body":"that insight from incidents in a"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1465.34,"endTime":1467.74,"body":"healthy way?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1468.62,"endTime":1471.35,"body":"Yeah, I think like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1468.62,"endTime":1471.35,"body":"this, this is like a topic that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1471.35,"endTime":1475.79,"body":"I am incredibly passionate about"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1471.35,"endTime":1475.79,"body":"is the sort of KPIing, and over"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1475.85,"endTime":1481.13,"body":"metricing incidents. So I think,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1475.85,"endTime":1481.13,"body":"like, my advice would be to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1481.19,"endTime":1484.49,"body":"essentially steer clear of any"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1481.19,"endTime":1484.49,"body":"top line number around"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1484.49,"endTime":1487.37,"body":"incidents, there's a really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1484.49,"endTime":1487.37,"body":"common one that gets thrown"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1487.37,"endTime":1490.79,"body":"around a lot which we have sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1487.37,"endTime":1490.79,"body":"of begrudgingly added to our"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1490.79,"endTime":1493.82,"body":"app, primarily because like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1490.79,"endTime":1493.82,"body":"customers were like, I need this"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1493.82,"endTime":1497.57,"body":"thing. And that's MTTR which is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1493.82,"endTime":1497.57,"body":"mean time to recovery. And the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1497.57,"endTime":1500.54,"body":"sort of the theory behind this"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1497.57,"endTime":1500.54,"body":"is is that you go, oh, well, for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1500.54,"endTime":1503.42,"body":"every incident, I will measure"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1500.54,"endTime":1503.42,"body":"the time from when we sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1503.42,"endTime":1507.11,"body":"deemed it to be the start to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1503.42,"endTime":1507.11,"body":"deemed it to be over. And then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1507.11,"endTime":1510.05,"body":"we'll just average that across"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1507.11,"endTime":1510.05,"body":"everything. And we want that to,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1510.29,"endTime":1514.31,"body":"you know, trend down, or at"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1510.29,"endTime":1514.31,"body":"least not trend up. And like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1514.34,"endTime":1518.63,"body":"there's various sort of papers"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1514.34,"endTime":1518.63,"body":"been written about the actual,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1518.69,"endTime":1521.27,"body":"like, how this is just not an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1518.69,"endTime":1521.27,"body":"effective thing. And it's very"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1521.27,"endTime":1524.39,"body":"misleading. And at the core of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1521.27,"endTime":1524.39,"body":"it, it's just like, it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1524.39,"endTime":1527.69,"body":"ridiculous. When you think about"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1524.39,"endTime":1527.69,"body":"it, it's like, people are people"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1527.69,"endTime":1530.9,"body":"are not going to take any longer"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1527.69,"endTime":1530.9,"body":"than than they sort of need to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1530.9,"endTime":1533.48,"body":"in incidents. And no one's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1530.9,"endTime":1533.48,"body":"choosing when an incident"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1533.48,"endTime":1537.08,"body":"happens. And incidents, almost"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1533.48,"endTime":1537.08,"body":"certainly by their very nature"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1537.08,"endTime":1541.91,"body":"are sort of things that no one"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1537.08,"endTime":1541.91,"body":"no one can predict. And so it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1541.91,"endTime":1547.19,"body":"sort of just is basically"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1541.91,"endTime":1547.19,"body":"meaningless. And so that, I'd"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1547.19,"endTime":1550.28,"body":"say the same is true of anyone"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1547.19,"endTime":1550.28,"body":"who's trying to sort of go well,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1550.31,"endTime":1553.94,"body":"Amy had 10 incidents that she"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1550.31,"endTime":1553.94,"body":"reported, I'd be like, That's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1553.94,"endTime":1557.48,"body":"great. You are, you are all over"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1553.94,"endTime":1557.48,"body":"it. And like I've written blog"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1557.48,"endTime":1560.87,"body":"posts, for incidents.io, which"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1557.48,"endTime":1560.87,"body":"are like why more incidents is a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1560.87,"endTime":1563.51,"body":"great thing for an organization"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1560.87,"endTime":1563.51,"body":"and you should encourage that."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1563.96,"endTime":1567.26,"body":"And so yeah, I guess my like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1563.96,"endTime":1567.26,"body":"overarching advice around like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1567.29,"endTime":1571.67,"body":"numbers and using incidents for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1567.29,"endTime":1571.67,"body":"insights is, if you really must"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1571.67,"endTime":1575.33,"body":"use a number, because it's the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1571.67,"endTime":1575.33,"body":"kind of the way that you can"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1575.36,"endTime":1578.06,"body":"sort of your your entry point, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1575.36,"endTime":1578.06,"body":"guess, into looking at"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1578.06,"endTime":1582.5,"body":"something, by all means, but you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1578.06,"endTime":1582.5,"body":"need to go that level deeper,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1582.5,"endTime":1585.62,"body":"which is like even if you are"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1582.5,"endTime":1585.62,"body":"addicted to MTTR, when that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1585.62,"endTime":1588.89,"body":"trends upwards, the first step"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1585.62,"endTime":1588.89,"body":"is not like throw your toys out"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1588.89,"endTime":1592.19,"body":"the pram and table flip, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1588.89,"endTime":1592.19,"body":"like cool this as a starting"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1592.19,"endTime":1594.32,"body":"point for an investigation. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1592.19,"endTime":1594.32,"body":"it might be that that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1594.32,"endTime":1597.56,"body":"investigation leads you down to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1594.32,"endTime":1597.56,"body":"cool everything's absolutely"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1597.56,"endTime":1601.07,"body":"fine. We've actually just, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1597.56,"endTime":1601.07,"body":"know, changed something with our"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1601.07,"endTime":1604.25,"body":"infrastructure. And that's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1601.07,"endTime":1604.25,"body":"you know, you just got to mean"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1604.25,"endTime":1607.1,"body":"like, it's just like, basically"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1604.25,"endTime":1607.1,"body":"meaningless to treat numbers"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1607.13,"endTime":1607.94,"body":"around this stuff."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1608.45,"endTime":1611.06,"body":"One of the things"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1608.45,"endTime":1611.06,"body":"that I've experienced and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1611.12,"endTime":1613.28,"body":"observed, I guess, firsthand"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1611.12,"endTime":1613.28,"body":"with the tech teams I've worked"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1613.28,"endTime":1618.41,"body":"in is around incidents, is,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1613.28,"endTime":1618.41,"body":"particularly for newer members"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1618.41,"endTime":1621.44,"body":"of the team that are less"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1618.41,"endTime":1621.44,"body":"experienced with the stack and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1621.44,"endTime":1624.2,"body":"with the technology you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1621.44,"endTime":1624.2,"body":"working with, how stressful"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1624.23,"endTime":1627.47,"body":"responding to incidents is, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1624.23,"endTime":1627.47,"body":"how stressful it is joining the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1627.47,"endTime":1629.75,"body":"firefighter rota for the first"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1627.47,"endTime":1629.75,"body":"time or responding to incidents"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1629.75,"endTime":1633.2,"body":"and being the person on call for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1629.75,"endTime":1633.2,"body":"the first time. How have you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1633.23,"endTime":1635.33,"body":"thought about that when you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1633.23,"endTime":1635.33,"body":"building incident.io and like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1635.54,"endTime":1638.36,"body":"and try to support make make it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1635.54,"endTime":1638.36,"body":"a better dev experience in that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1638.36,"endTime":1638.81,"body":"regard?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1640.04,"endTime":1642.14,"body":"Yeah, and there's a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1640.04,"endTime":1642.14,"body":"few different angles here. So I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1642.14,"endTime":1645.95,"body":"think the first one is, is that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1642.14,"endTime":1645.95,"body":"by dealing with incidents like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1645.98,"endTime":1649.7,"body":"transparently out in the open"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1645.98,"endTime":1649.7,"body":"and lowering the severity, like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1649.7,"endTime":1653.18,"body":"folks who are looking to ramp"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1649.7,"endTime":1653.18,"body":"up, have an incredible like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1653.48,"endTime":1657.14,"body":"back catalogue of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1653.48,"endTime":1657.14,"body":"this is how these people deal"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1657.14,"endTime":1659.36,"body":"with incidents. And so the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1657.14,"endTime":1659.36,"body":"things that we encourage and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1659.39,"endTime":1662.84,"body":"that I sort of picked up from"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1659.39,"endTime":1662.84,"body":"someone who I used to, I used to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1662.84,"endTime":1665.75,"body":"work, call Suhail [Patel] at"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1662.84,"endTime":1665.75,"body":"Monzo. So he used to run, he"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1665.75,"endTime":1668.12,"body":"used to do incidents, and he"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1665.75,"endTime":1668.12,"body":"sort of go off on an incident by"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1668.12,"endTime":1670.52,"body":"himself. And it's sort of it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1668.12,"endTime":1670.52,"body":"fine, because it was like a low"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1670.52,"endTime":1673.43,"body":"severity thing. And it was just,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1670.52,"endTime":1673.43,"body":"ended up using these, like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1673.46,"endTime":1676.88,"body":"incident channels, like debug"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1673.46,"endTime":1676.88,"body":"trails. And so he would just be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1676.88,"endTime":1679.58,"body":"like talking out loud in a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1676.88,"endTime":1679.58,"body":"channel. So he's like, Oh, I've"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1679.58,"endTime":1682.43,"body":"seen this thing that's really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1679.58,"endTime":1682.43,"body":"curious, I'm kind of a bit"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1682.43,"endTime":1685.37,"body":"surprised by that. Here's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1682.43,"endTime":1685.37,"body":"the output of my terminal or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1685.37,"endTime":1687.71,"body":"this window, I'm gonna go look"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1685.37,"endTime":1687.71,"body":"at this now. And he did this"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1687.71,"endTime":1690.56,"body":"whole thing. And so I, I do that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1687.71,"endTime":1690.56,"body":"a lot. So I'm on call at"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1690.56,"endTime":1693.32,"body":"incident.io, when things go"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1690.56,"endTime":1693.32,"body":"wrong, I will create an incident"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1693.32,"endTime":1696.08,"body":"channel and I will just leave my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1693.32,"endTime":1696.08,"body":"debug trail. And that has like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1696.71,"endTime":1699.02,"body":"a number of different benefits,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1696.71,"endTime":1699.02,"body":"like the first of which, like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1699.02,"endTime":1701.96,"body":"if you need to call on anyone"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1699.02,"endTime":1701.96,"body":"else to come and join, you've"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1701.96,"endTime":1704.18,"body":"got this like cool you can catch"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1701.96,"endTime":1704.18,"body":"up in the channel, all the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1704.18,"endTime":1707.63,"body":"context is there. But as I said,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1704.18,"endTime":1707.63,"body":"for an onboarding tool, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1707.63,"endTime":1710.3,"body":"incredible for folks to be able"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1707.63,"endTime":1710.3,"body":"to, like browse those things,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1710.3,"endTime":1714.11,"body":"and you can walk through old"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1710.3,"endTime":1714.11,"body":"incidents, and, you know, go go"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1714.11,"endTime":1717.08,"body":"to debriefs, that's like a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1714.11,"endTime":1717.08,"body":"fantastic way to learn. But I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1717.08,"endTime":1719.6,"body":"think then another angle, which"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1717.08,"endTime":1719.6,"body":"is really, really useful, which"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1719.6,"endTime":1722.9,"body":"is when when folks are ready to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1719.6,"endTime":1722.9,"body":"sort of like, take that first"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1722.9,"endTime":1726.98,"body":"step into being the person who"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1722.9,"endTime":1726.98,"body":"was paged, or first responding"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1726.98,"endTime":1731.39,"body":"to incident is to just do it in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1726.98,"endTime":1731.39,"body":"hours and do it for low severity"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1731.39,"endTime":1734.69,"body":"things. And you can basically go"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1731.39,"endTime":1734.69,"body":"cool well, either you take it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1734.69,"endTime":1738.65,"body":"yourself, or you can reverse"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1734.69,"endTime":1738.65,"body":"shadow. So we pull in someone"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1738.65,"endTime":1741.14,"body":"else. And so we have ways of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1738.65,"endTime":1741.14,"body":"doing that. With incident.io,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1741.56,"endTime":1745.67,"body":"you can configure the product to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1741.56,"endTime":1745.67,"body":"basically run these lightweight"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1745.67,"endTime":1748.55,"body":"automations, which would be like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1745.67,"endTime":1748.55,"body":"cool if an incident is declared,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1748.55,"endTime":1751.85,"body":"and it's minor, automatically"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1748.55,"endTime":1751.85,"body":"pull in Lawrence, and he will be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1751.85,"endTime":1755.3,"body":"there to sort of help shadow you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1751.85,"endTime":1755.3,"body":"through this process. And so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1755.3,"endTime":1758.06,"body":"that, I think is another really,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1755.3,"endTime":1758.06,"body":"really good way to level folks"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1758.06,"endTime":1761.33,"body":"up. And then the sort of, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1758.06,"endTime":1761.33,"body":"guess, future direction for us"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1761.33,"endTime":1764.69,"body":"is like, we would love to build"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1761.33,"endTime":1764.69,"body":"something that is like a better"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1764.69,"endTime":1767.57,"body":"version of PagerDuty. PagerDuty"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1764.69,"endTime":1767.57,"body":"makes it pretty difficult for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1767.57,"endTime":1772.28,"body":"folks to shadow people. Like I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1767.57,"endTime":1772.28,"body":"have spent countless hours at"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1772.28,"endTime":1776.27,"body":"previous companies trying to get"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1772.28,"endTime":1776.27,"body":"like schedules to work and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1776.27,"endTime":1779.6,"body":"escalation policies to like have"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1776.27,"endTime":1779.6,"body":"two people all at a given time."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1779.63,"endTime":1781.01,"body":"I've battled all"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1779.63,"endTime":1781.01,"body":"this stuff. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1781.67,"endTime":1783.92,"body":"It's just so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1781.67,"endTime":1783.92,"body":"frustrating. It feels like such"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1783.92,"endTime":1787.04,"body":"a basic thing that you want to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1783.92,"endTime":1787.04,"body":"do as a sort of engineering"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1787.04,"endTime":1791.27,"body":"leader is set this sort of like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1787.04,"endTime":1791.27,"body":"healthy onboarding, rotation up"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1791.27,"endTime":1794.45,"body":"and you have to sort of hack it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1791.27,"endTime":1794.45,"body":"and so in the future we will be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1794.9,"endTime":1797.24,"body":"we will be very much focused on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1794.9,"endTime":1797.24,"body":"that. I think the general point"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1797.24,"endTime":1800.3,"body":"here is like, we are, the three"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1797.24,"endTime":1800.3,"body":"of us who founded this company,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1800.3,"endTime":1803.06,"body":"we've all been sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1800.3,"endTime":1803.06,"body":"engineering leaders in one shape"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1803.06,"endTime":1806.18,"body":"or another and have seen these"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1803.06,"endTime":1806.18,"body":"sort of pain points time and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1806.18,"endTime":1810.08,"body":"time again, and sort of building"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1806.18,"endTime":1810.08,"body":"tools for humans is very much"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1810.08,"endTime":1811.97,"body":"like front and center of what"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1810.08,"endTime":1811.97,"body":"we're trying to achieve."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1811.0,"endTime":1816.04,"body":"I love that. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1811.0,"endTime":1816.04,"body":"love that, that idea as well of,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1816.31,"endTime":1818.5,"body":"as you described, like going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1816.31,"endTime":1818.5,"body":"through this like process of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1818.5,"endTime":1821.92,"body":"like, posting your terminal"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1818.5,"endTime":1821.92,"body":"screenshots and like talking to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1821.92,"endTime":1824.26,"body":"yourself, it sounds like an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1821.92,"endTime":1824.26,"body":"absolute treasure trove of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1824.26,"endTime":1827.29,"body":"information for other people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1824.26,"endTime":1827.29,"body":"like to come to come in and see"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1827.29,"endTime":1829.18,"body":"the trail of information you've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":1827.29,"endTime":1829.18,"body":"left for them that something"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1829.0,"endTime":1831.73,"body":"is fascinating. It"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1829.0,"endTime":1831.73,"body":"can be it can be really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1831.73,"endTime":1834.88,"body":"enlightening, and it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1831.73,"endTime":1834.88,"body":"genuinely such a good way to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1834.88,"endTime":1836.71,"body":"learn. Because you'll see people"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1834.88,"endTime":1836.71,"body":"who post things you would like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1837.22,"endTime":1839.65,"body":"oh, my gosh, I didn't know you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1837.22,"endTime":1839.65,"body":"could get that data from that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1839.65,"endTime":1842.83,"body":"system like that. And it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1839.65,"endTime":1842.83,"body":"that's, that's honestly, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1842.83,"endTime":1845.53,"body":"one of the biggest, like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1842.83,"endTime":1845.53,"body":"superpowers I think of incidents"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1845.53,"endTime":1848.62,"body":"is like this concept of tacit"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1845.53,"endTime":1848.62,"body":"knowledge, which is like that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1848.62,"endTime":1851.83,"body":"knowledge that people just know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1848.62,"endTime":1851.83,"body":"and it's sort of tribal"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1851.83,"endTime":1855.13,"body":"knowledge among organizations."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1851.83,"endTime":1855.13,"body":"And it's really dangerous"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1855.13,"endTime":1858.28,"body":"because people leave and they"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1855.13,"endTime":1858.28,"body":"take that with them and people"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1858.28,"endTime":1860.2,"body":"can't make good decisions if"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1858.28,"endTime":1860.2,"body":"they don't have all of the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1860.2,"endTime":1863.32,"body":"information. So yeah, the more"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1860.2,"endTime":1863.32,"body":"that you can bring out to the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1863.32,"endTime":1865.87,"body":"fore the better and, and in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1863.32,"endTime":1865.87,"body":"fact, this reminds me like my,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1865.9,"endTime":1868.18,"body":"my, literally, my favorite"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1865.9,"endTime":1868.18,"body":"favorite feature of our product"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1868.18,"endTime":1871.06,"body":"is this really, really like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1868.18,"endTime":1871.06,"body":"small thing that we built in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1871.06,"endTime":1873.22,"body":"like an evening, because we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1871.06,"endTime":1873.22,"body":"still had a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1873.22,"endTime":1875.83,"body":"capacity left at the end of a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1873.22,"endTime":1875.83,"body":"week, which is, at the end of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1875.83,"endTime":1878.56,"body":"your incident, we will prompt"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1875.83,"endTime":1878.56,"body":"with a little button which says,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1878.8,"endTime":1882.46,"body":"\"How did this incident go? Leave"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1878.8,"endTime":1882.46,"body":"some feedback\" and we see"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1882.46,"endTime":1884.68,"body":"customers use this again and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1882.46,"endTime":1884.68,"body":"again and again, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1884.71,"endTime":1887.59,"body":"folks who will be like, Oh, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1884.71,"endTime":1887.59,"body":"literally didn't know how Amy"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1887.59,"endTime":1889.93,"body":"found that dashboard, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1887.59,"endTime":1889.93,"body":"know that existed. But it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1889.93,"endTime":1892.66,"body":"like super useful for finding"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1889.93,"endTime":1892.66,"body":"the way here and it sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1892.66,"endTime":1894.85,"body":"snowballs. And people will just"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1892.66,"endTime":1894.85,"body":"leave all of this feedback. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1894.85,"endTime":1898.09,"body":"it's just like you can just see"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1894.85,"endTime":1898.09,"body":"like, like this torrent of tacit"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1898.09,"endTime":1901.33,"body":"knowledge like pouring down. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1898.09,"endTime":1901.33,"body":"it's just yeah, a fascinating"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1901.33,"endTime":1902.62,"body":"thing to be able to see"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1901.33,"endTime":1902.62,"body":"basically."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1904.21,"endTime":1908.2,"body":"Incredible. So"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1904.21,"endTime":1908.2,"body":"we've, we've talked a little bit"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1908.2,"endTime":1911.92,"body":"around this stuff, but super"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1908.2,"endTime":1911.92,"body":"keen to hear, Chris kind of how"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1911.95,"endTime":1914.47,"body":"you've ended up in this place."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1911.95,"endTime":1914.47,"body":"Right? So you've gone through"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1914.47,"endTime":1917.17,"body":"lots of changes in your career,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1914.47,"endTime":1917.17,"body":"starting out as a software"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1917.17,"endTime":1921.85,"body":"engineer, you've been technical"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1917.17,"endTime":1921.85,"body":"product manager, technical"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1921.85,"endTime":1925.33,"body":"director, now co founder, Chief"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1921.85,"endTime":1925.33,"body":"Product Officer. So what are"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1925.33,"endTime":1928.33,"body":"kind of some of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1925.33,"endTime":1928.33,"body":"learnings that you've you've got"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1928.33,"endTime":1930.94,"body":"from this journey and sort of"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1928.33,"endTime":1930.94,"body":"transitioning through these"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1930.94,"endTime":1931.51,"body":"roles?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1932.72,"endTime":1936.8,"body":"Wow, man, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1932.72,"endTime":1936.8,"body":"that's a big question. What have"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1936.8,"endTime":1938.39,"body":"I, what have I learned?"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1939.92,"endTime":1941.87,"body":"What about some of"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1939.92,"endTime":1941.87,"body":"these big transitions, right? So"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1941.87,"endTime":1944.93,"body":"like, I'm particularly"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1941.87,"endTime":1944.93,"body":"interested, I suppose, like, how"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1944.93,"endTime":1949.49,"body":"did you move from software"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1944.93,"endTime":1949.49,"body":"engineering into product"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1949.49,"endTime":1952.4,"body":"management? Because that feels"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1949.49,"endTime":1952.4,"body":"like I think it's a popular"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1952.4,"endTime":1954.77,"body":"route but I don't think it's a"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1952.4,"endTime":1954.77,"body":"common route. Like, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1954.77,"endTime":1957.29,"body":"think people like the look of it"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1954.77,"endTime":1957.29,"body":"but I don't think that many"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1957.29,"endTime":1960.47,"body":"people actually make that"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1957.29,"endTime":1960.47,"body":"transition. Like, how did you go"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1960.47,"endTime":1962.72,"body":"about doing that? And what were"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1960.47,"endTime":1962.72,"body":"kind of some of the surprises"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":1962.72,"endTime":1964.1,"body":"when you did make that move?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1964.63,"endTime":1967.9,"body":"Yeah, that that is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1964.63,"endTime":1967.9,"body":"a good question. And one I have"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1967.9,"endTime":1971.62,"body":"a good answer for, which was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1967.9,"endTime":1971.62,"body":"that, so I spent like seven"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1971.62,"endTime":1975.13,"body":"years as a software engineer at"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1971.62,"endTime":1975.13,"body":"a small company that was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1975.13,"endTime":1978.49,"body":"developing these like infrared"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1975.13,"endTime":1978.49,"body":"sensors. And I was originally"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1978.49,"endTime":1981.79,"body":"writing like embedded code for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1978.49,"endTime":1981.79,"body":"them and then later writing like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1981.79,"endTime":1985.72,"body":"applications the web apps that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1981.79,"endTime":1985.72,"body":"supported them and won't go into"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1985.72,"endTime":1988.12,"body":"like loads of the details there."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1985.72,"endTime":1988.12,"body":"But basically, the end of my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1988.12,"endTime":1992.59,"body":"time there, I ended up ended up"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1988.12,"endTime":1992.59,"body":"like flying like various places"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1992.59,"endTime":1995.35,"body":"around the world to go and like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1992.59,"endTime":1995.35,"body":"sell our product. And we were"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1995.35,"endTime":1997.81,"body":"selling products to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1995.35,"endTime":1997.81,"body":"supermarkets, primarily, it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1997.81,"endTime":2001.95,"body":"like, counting people in queues"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":1997.81,"endTime":2001.95,"body":"and through doors and stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2002.85,"endTime":2007.98,"body":"I think for me, I realized that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2002.85,"endTime":2007.98,"body":"at that point, like, my impact"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2007.98,"endTime":2010.71,"body":"could be greater not as an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2007.98,"endTime":2010.71,"body":"individual contributor, but as"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2010.71,"endTime":2014.82,"body":"someone who could kind of go and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2010.71,"endTime":2014.82,"body":"be a bridge between non"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2014.82,"endTime":2018.06,"body":"technical folks and then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2014.82,"endTime":2018.06,"body":"engineers who were writing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2018.06,"endTime":2021.6,"body":"software. And, yeah, I think I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2018.06,"endTime":2021.6,"body":"just sort of, I think carved out"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2021.6,"endTime":2024.09,"body":"a little bit of a niche there in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2021.6,"endTime":2024.09,"body":"some organizations, which was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2024.09,"endTime":2027.69,"body":"that, essentially, that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2024.09,"endTime":2027.69,"body":"translation from, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2027.9,"endTime":2030.6,"body":"people doing the work on the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2027.9,"endTime":2030.6,"body":"ground through to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2030.75,"endTime":2033.48,"body":"whether it's managers or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2030.75,"endTime":2033.48,"body":"customers or anyone outside?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2034.11,"endTime":2038.07,"body":"That's, I think it's quite rare"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2034.11,"endTime":2038.07,"body":"to find that done in a good way."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2038.16,"endTime":2041.34,"body":"And I think there's a lot a lot"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2038.16,"endTime":2041.34,"body":"of sort of, like benefit of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2041.34,"endTime":2043.92,"body":"having that that communication"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2041.34,"endTime":2043.92,"body":"streamlined both ways. And so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2043.92,"endTime":2046.41,"body":"that was what led me into"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2043.92,"endTime":2046.41,"body":"technical product management,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2046.41,"endTime":2050.61,"body":"which was just, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2046.41,"endTime":2050.61,"body":"can I, how can I help in the way"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2050.61,"endTime":2053.34,"body":"that I think I'm sort of most"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2050.61,"endTime":2053.34,"body":"impactful and as it happens, the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2053.34,"endTime":2055.44,"body":"first jump into technical"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2053.34,"endTime":2055.44,"body":"product management was an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2055.44,"endTime":2058.2,"body":"absolute, like it was absolute"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2055.44,"endTime":2058.2,"body":"carnage for me and it was like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2058.59,"endTime":2062.13,"body":"working at Marks \u0026 Spencers in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2058.59,"endTime":2062.13,"body":"like an enormous, enormous IT"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2062.13,"endTime":2067.14,"body":"organization with my entire team"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2062.13,"endTime":2067.14,"body":"out in India. And whilst they"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2067.14,"endTime":2070.5,"body":"were great, like just all the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2067.14,"endTime":2070.5,"body":"communication barriers and the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2070.5,"endTime":2073.14,"body":"like, you know, timezone"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2070.5,"endTime":2073.14,"body":"overlaps and all those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2073.14,"endTime":2075.72,"body":"things. It was it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2073.14,"endTime":2075.72,"body":"dreadful, and I felt pretty"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2075.72,"endTime":2079.59,"body":"ineffective there. And then it"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2075.72,"endTime":2079.59,"body":"was then when I sort of made the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2079.59,"endTime":2083.04,"body":"move to MOO that I think it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2079.59,"endTime":2083.04,"body":"right, it really clicked for me,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2083.04,"endTime":2086.79,"body":"which was like big"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2083.04,"endTime":2086.79,"body":"organization-wide projects to do"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2086.79,"endTime":2090.27,"body":"this whole data center."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2086.79,"endTime":2090.27,"body":"Basically, I remember just like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2090.27,"endTime":2094.23,"body":"the the team that we're in sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2090.27,"endTime":2094.23,"body":"of felt like felt a little bit"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2094.23,"endTime":2097.14,"body":"like the rock stars of the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2094.23,"endTime":2097.14,"body":"company because that we've been"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2097.14,"endTime":2097.74,"body":"told like,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2098.04,"endTime":2100.23,"body":"Incredible team as"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2098.04,"endTime":2100.23,"body":"well. We should probably give"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2100.23,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"them a shout out because they're"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2100.23,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"probably all listening, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2102.78,"endTime":2103.44,"body":"expect?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2103.69,"endTime":2105.7,"body":"Well, yeah, this is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2103.69,"endTime":2105.7,"body":"the thing. So I remember joining"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2105.7,"endTime":2109.84,"body":"and just being like, astonished"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2105.7,"endTime":2109.84,"body":"at the level of talent that that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2109.84,"endTime":2114.13,"body":"MOO had been able to hire. So we"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2109.84,"endTime":2114.13,"body":"had some, like, just incredible,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2114.13,"endTime":2117.97,"body":"like platform engineers. And,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2114.13,"endTime":2117.97,"body":"yeah, and then combined with"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2117.97,"endTime":2120.76,"body":"that, like Meri Williams, who I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2117.97,"endTime":2120.76,"body":"think, has been on this podcast"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2120.76,"endTime":2126.31,"body":"before, the CTO, and so she was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2120.76,"endTime":2126.31,"body":"able to basically, I mean, she"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2126.31,"endTime":2130.69,"body":"basically was like, this is the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2126.31,"endTime":2130.69,"body":"most important thing for me. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2130.72,"endTime":2134.23,"body":"really, really repeatedly backed"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2130.72,"endTime":2134.23,"body":"that up and gave, like, all the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2134.23,"endTime":2137.29,"body":"resources that we needed,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2134.23,"endTime":2137.29,"body":"whether that was time or money,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2137.32,"endTime":2140.11,"body":"or additional people or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2137.32,"endTime":2140.11,"body":"additional weight across, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2140.11,"endTime":2143.35,"body":"know, exec team or other teams."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2140.11,"endTime":2143.35,"body":"And so yeah, I think basically,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2143.41,"endTime":2146.11,"body":"to summarize, MOO is where I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2143.41,"endTime":2146.11,"body":"really clicked and was like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2146.11,"endTime":2148.75,"body":"yes, this is, this is definitely"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2146.11,"endTime":2148.75,"body":"for me, I really enjoy this"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2148.75,"endTime":2152.38,"body":"whole, you know, one foot in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2148.75,"endTime":2152.38,"body":"like technical camp, and able to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2152.38,"endTime":2155.98,"body":"sort of help or at least, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2152.38,"endTime":2155.98,"body":"know, help make decisions or,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2155.98,"endTime":2158.05,"body":"you know, influence those sorts"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2155.98,"endTime":2158.05,"body":"of things. And then the other"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2158.05,"endTime":2161.32,"body":"side of like, helping to, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2158.05,"endTime":2161.32,"body":"know, make sure that everyone"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2161.32,"endTime":2163.57,"body":"understood what was going on,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2161.32,"endTime":2163.57,"body":"and that we were doing things on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2163.57,"endTime":2168.01,"body":"the right timelines, etc, etc."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2163.57,"endTime":2168.01,"body":"And then sort of, I think, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2168.01,"endTime":2169.93,"body":"think that the, as I said"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2168.01,"endTime":2169.93,"body":"earlier, like the sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2169.93,"endTime":2173.5,"body":"extrapolation of all of this is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2169.93,"endTime":2173.5,"body":"then being someone who then, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2173.5,"endTime":2176.29,"body":"know, I now have like a foot in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2173.5,"endTime":2176.29,"body":"foot in the engineering camp or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2176.29,"endTime":2179.11,"body":"foot in marketing camp and a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2176.29,"endTime":2179.11,"body":"foot in various different camps"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2179.11,"endTime":2181.75,"body":"around the company that I'm in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2179.11,"endTime":2181.75,"body":"now. And then my sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2182.11,"endTime":2185.47,"body":"stakeholders, for want of a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2182.11,"endTime":2185.47,"body":"better phrase, are investors and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2185.47,"endTime":2188.53,"body":"the many, many customers and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2185.47,"endTime":2188.53,"body":"like the other co founders that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2188.53,"endTime":2191.44,"body":"I work with. And so, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2188.53,"endTime":2191.44,"body":"think I just found out that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2191.44,"endTime":2193.9,"body":"those, those are the things that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2191.44,"endTime":2193.9,"body":"I really enjoy, and I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2193.9,"endTime":2196.93,"body":"good at, or at least I haven't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2193.9,"endTime":2196.93,"body":"managed to, like crash and burn"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2196.93,"endTime":2199.27,"body":"this company yet. So, so far so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2196.93,"endTime":2199.27,"body":"good."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2202.09,"endTime":2205.48,"body":"You mentioned"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2202.09,"endTime":2205.48,"body":"earlier in this discussion about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2205.66,"endTime":2208.66,"body":"building a company, you used the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2205.66,"endTime":2208.66,"body":"phrase, it was so hard to build"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2208.66,"endTime":2212.08,"body":"a company, and also around the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2208.66,"endTime":2212.08,"body":"co founder role, that it's like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2212.08,"endTime":2216.52,"body":"a truly multidisciplinary role."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2212.08,"endTime":2216.52,"body":"You mentioned doing GTM plus"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2216.52,"endTime":2219.01,"body":"product plus tech plus"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2216.52,"endTime":2219.01,"body":"everything. How did you find"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2219.01,"endTime":2224.32,"body":"that transition from being an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2219.01,"endTime":2224.32,"body":"employee Monzo to like running"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2224.32,"endTime":2226.45,"body":"and co founding a business at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2224.32,"endTime":2226.45,"body":"Incident.io?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2227.77,"endTime":2230.53,"body":"yeah. Is I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2227.77,"endTime":2230.53,"body":"remember talking to Jonas, the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2230.53,"endTime":2235.12,"body":"CTO at Monzobefore, before I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2230.53,"endTime":2235.12,"body":"left and him just sort of like a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2235.12,"endTime":2237.61,"body":"friendly warning. He was like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2235.12,"endTime":2237.61,"body":"this will be like nothing,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2237.64,"endTime":2240.37,"body":"nothing you've ever done before."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2237.64,"endTime":2240.37,"body":"I can't remember the exact"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2240.37,"endTime":2243.22,"body":"words, but it was just like, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2240.37,"endTime":2243.22,"body":"know, go in eyes open. And I was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2243.22,"endTime":2247.6,"body":"like, Yeah, I got this, this is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2243.22,"endTime":2247.6,"body":"fine. But I think I think the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2247.6,"endTime":2250.63,"body":"transition, I think the"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2247.6,"endTime":2250.63,"body":"transition was actually eased by"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2250.63,"endTime":2254.26,"body":"the fact that I had Pete and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2250.63,"endTime":2254.26,"body":"Stephen around. So we often talk"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2254.26,"endTime":2258.67,"body":"about how, I mean, firstly, just"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2254.26,"endTime":2258.67,"body":"massively grateful we are to be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2258.67,"endTime":2262.3,"body":"a founding team of three people,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2258.67,"endTime":2262.3,"body":"and three people who get on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2262.3,"endTime":2266.02,"body":"incredibly well. And it's been"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2262.3,"endTime":2266.02,"body":"now you know, year and a half"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2266.02,"endTime":2268.87,"body":"and whatever. And we haven't had"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2266.02,"endTime":2268.87,"body":"any, any significant fallouts,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2268.87,"endTime":2272.41,"body":"which is very nice. But we often"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2268.87,"endTime":2272.41,"body":"talk about like having out of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2272.41,"endTime":2275.38,"body":"phase like sine waves of you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2272.41,"endTime":2275.38,"body":"know, when one person's down,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2275.92,"endTime":2278.5,"body":"it's almost guaranteed that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2275.92,"endTime":2278.5,"body":"you're not going to have both,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2278.53,"endTime":2281.86,"body":"you know, the other two not be"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2278.53,"endTime":2281.86,"body":"up or at least, you know, out of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2281.86,"endTime":2286.24,"body":"phase in some way. And so that,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2281.86,"endTime":2286.24,"body":"it's been like, incredibly hard"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2286.24,"endTime":2290.62,"body":"starting this company, and so"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2286.24,"endTime":2290.62,"body":"much to do, but we are a tight"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2290.62,"endTime":2294.43,"body":"knit group, and very, very"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2290.62,"endTime":2294.43,"body":"supportive. And so it sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2294.43,"endTime":2298.3,"body":"doesn't, doesn't feel like I've"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2294.43,"endTime":2298.3,"body":"sort of had to face, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2298.33,"endTime":2301.6,"body":"build a sales org and be like, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2298.33,"endTime":2301.6,"body":"have no idea how to do that."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2301.6,"endTime":2304.24,"body":"It's like, cool, well, let's all"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2301.6,"endTime":2304.24,"body":"go and figure this out. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2304.24,"endTime":2306.22,"body":"we'll come back, and we'll"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2304.24,"endTime":2306.22,"body":"regroup and we'll work together"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2306.22,"endTime":2309.4,"body":"on, you know,  a master sales"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2306.22,"endTime":2309.4,"body":"deck. And we'll, we'll figure"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2309.4,"endTime":2312.13,"body":"out how we do this and that and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2309.4,"endTime":2312.13,"body":"like, what does marketing look"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2312.13,"endTime":2315.34,"body":"like? And, yeah, so I think it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2312.13,"endTime":2315.34,"body":"sort of, it's just hard. And I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2315.34,"endTime":2318.16,"body":"think it takes a certain type of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2315.34,"endTime":2318.16,"body":"sort of run through walls"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2318.16,"endTime":2320.86,"body":"mentality to do it well, which"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2318.16,"endTime":2320.86,"body":"is, you know, you've got to,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2321.04,"endTime":2323.68,"body":"you've got to be the kind of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2321.04,"endTime":2323.68,"body":"person that sees, sees a big"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2323.68,"endTime":2326.95,"body":"problem as an opportunity rather"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2323.68,"endTime":2326.95,"body":"than something to kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2326.98,"endTime":2331.03,"body":"you know, run away from, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2326.98,"endTime":2331.03,"body":"it's hard like that's not an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2331.03,"endTime":2334.09,"body":"easy thing to do. But I think"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2331.03,"endTime":2334.09,"body":"you sort of just, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2334.12,"endTime":2335.89,"body":"I think the thing that I've"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2334.12,"endTime":2335.89,"body":"developed later in my career"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2335.89,"endTime":2338.62,"body":"actually is just this kind of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2335.89,"endTime":2338.62,"body":"like attitude of saying yes to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2338.62,"endTime":2341.38,"body":"things, even if I don't believe"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2338.62,"endTime":2341.38,"body":"it. And like, this is how I got"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2341.38,"endTime":2344.26,"body":"into like, speaking at"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2341.38,"endTime":2344.26,"body":"conferences, and it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2344.47,"endTime":2346.9,"body":"someone asks you and says, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2344.47,"endTime":2346.9,"body":"know, will you do that? Or will"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2346.9,"endTime":2349.87,"body":"you talk at this meetup? And I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2346.9,"endTime":2349.87,"body":"just sort of was like, Yes. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2349.87,"endTime":2353.74,"body":"then I stressed for about three"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2349.87,"endTime":2353.74,"body":"months, progressively, in fact I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2353.74,"endTime":2358.54,"body":"think it was someone, Amy and I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2353.74,"endTime":2358.54,"body":"used to work with at MOO, a guy,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2358.66,"endTime":2362.77,"body":"Mike Harris, who used to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2358.66,"endTime":2362.77,"body":"describe, I think he described"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2362.8,"endTime":2366.94,"body":"giving conference talks as like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2362.8,"endTime":2366.94,"body":"reverse hangovers, where you get"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2367.21,"endTime":2370.78,"body":"more and more and more sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2367.21,"endTime":2370.78,"body":"ill feeling towards the event,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2370.87,"endTime":2373.27,"body":"and then it happens. And then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2370.87,"endTime":2373.27,"body":"it's like, it's all good again,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2373.27,"endTime":2373.87,"body":"kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2375.1,"endTime":2379.0,"body":"Yeah, like the pit"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2375.1,"endTime":2379.0,"body":"of despair. Like, three days"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2379.0,"endTime":2381.73,"body":"before, when you realize you"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2379.0,"endTime":2381.73,"body":"really got to write that talk."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2381.97,"endTime":2385.18,"body":"And you have deep regrets. And"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2381.97,"endTime":2385.18,"body":"then on the day, it's brilliant."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2385.39,"endTime":2387.52,"body":"Yeah, afterwards, it's even"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2385.39,"endTime":2387.52,"body":"better and then you sign up for"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2387.52,"endTime":2388.0,"body":"the next one."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2388.36,"endTime":2391.51,"body":"Exactly. Exactly,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2388.36,"endTime":2391.51,"body":"but in the build up to the talk,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2391.51,"endTime":2396.79,"body":"you'll be like, never again, why"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2391.51,"endTime":2396.79,"body":"did I do this? I think the thing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2396.79,"endTime":2398.74,"body":"the thing that, I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2396.79,"endTime":2398.74,"body":"who said it, I can't remember I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2398.74,"endTime":2401.35,"body":"heard it. I think I love about"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2398.74,"endTime":2401.35,"body":"but like conference talking is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2401.5,"endTime":2404.65,"body":"like I'm a massive introvert and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2401.5,"endTime":2404.65,"body":"I go to a conference, I really"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2404.65,"endTime":2407.92,"body":"struggle to go and like, just"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2404.65,"endTime":2407.92,"body":"strike up conversation with"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2407.92,"endTime":2411.19,"body":"people around the conference."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2407.92,"endTime":2411.19,"body":"But if you talk at a conference,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2411.34,"endTime":2413.32,"body":"people want to just come and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2411.34,"endTime":2413.32,"body":"talk to you. And it's just like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2413.35,"endTime":2415.9,"body":"that's brilliant. I love that."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2413.35,"endTime":2415.9,"body":"Because I genuinely enjoy"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2415.9,"endTime":2418.99,"body":"talking to people. I just like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2415.9,"endTime":2418.99,"body":"it's that like, awkward intro"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2418.99,"endTime":2421.36,"body":"thing, which I think generally"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2418.99,"endTime":2421.36,"body":"British people are just dreadful"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2421.36,"endTime":2423.76,"body":"at. And me especially so."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2427.26,"endTime":2429.42,"body":"One thing that's"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2427.26,"endTime":2429.42,"body":"always struck me, Chris, is you"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2429.42,"endTime":2433.65,"body":"have remained very technical."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2429.42,"endTime":2433.65,"body":"And you've always been quite"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2433.65,"endTime":2436.2,"body":"hands on and even, sort of like"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2433.65,"endTime":2436.2,"body":"when we work together at MOO,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2436.2,"endTime":2438.42,"body":"and you were sort of like, I"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2436.2,"endTime":2438.42,"body":"know, you were a technical"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2438.42,"endTime":2441.57,"body":"product manager, but like, you"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2438.42,"endTime":2441.57,"body":"were very much experimenting"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2441.57,"endTime":2443.79,"body":"with things. And \"I saw this"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2441.57,"endTime":2443.79,"body":"thing. I've tried this thing"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2443.82,"endTime":2448.68,"body":"out\", like, how, how have you"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2443.82,"endTime":2448.68,"body":"managed to stay so in touch with"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2448.68,"endTime":2450.45,"body":"technology as you've gone"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2448.68,"endTime":2450.45,"body":"through all these different"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2450.45,"endTime":2451.11,"body":"roles?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2452.05,"endTime":2453.76,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2452.05,"endTime":2453.76,"body":"think it's probably a stretch to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2453.76,"endTime":2457.42,"body":"say I'm really in touch with"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2453.76,"endTime":2457.42,"body":"technology. Like I sort of, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2457.42,"endTime":2460.42,"body":"think in the back of my mind, my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2457.42,"endTime":2460.42,"body":"my, I think for a long time, in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2460.42,"endTime":2462.61,"body":"the back of my mind, ever since"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2460.42,"endTime":2462.61,"body":"I stopped sort of writing code"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2462.61,"endTime":2468.49,"body":"as a full time full time gig has"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2462.61,"endTime":2468.49,"body":"been that sort of fear of waking"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2468.49,"endTime":2471.31,"body":"up one day and being in a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2468.49,"endTime":2471.31,"body":"meeting that in a technology"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2471.31,"endTime":2473.26,"body":"company and someone says"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2471.31,"endTime":2473.26,"body":"something, or there's a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2473.26,"endTime":2475.42,"body":"conversation going on, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2473.26,"endTime":2475.42,"body":"you've just been like, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2475.51,"endTime":2478.87,"body":"literally have no idea what's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2475.51,"endTime":2478.87,"body":"going on. And I remember I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2478.87,"endTime":2481.87,"body":"remember this, like M\u0026S And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2478.87,"endTime":2481.87,"body":"like, I don't want to sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2481.87,"endTime":2484.69,"body":"talk ill of previous employer."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2481.87,"endTime":2484.69,"body":"But there were, there were"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2484.69,"endTime":2488.14,"body":"people there who just didn't get"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2484.69,"endTime":2488.14,"body":"get the modern world, they just"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2488.14,"endTime":2491.26,"body":"sort of like in IT  orgs. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2488.14,"endTime":2491.26,"body":"it's sort of like just seeing"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2491.26,"endTime":2493.93,"body":"out a career. And that has"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2491.26,"endTime":2493.93,"body":"always been in the back of your"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2493.93,"endTime":2497.14,"body":"mind is like, I just don't want"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2493.93,"endTime":2497.14,"body":"to be that person. And as I said"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2497.14,"endTime":2499.39,"body":"earlier, like this sort of niche"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2497.14,"endTime":2499.39,"body":"that I feel like I've carved out"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2499.39,"endTime":2503.08,"body":"as this sort of conduit, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2499.39,"endTime":2503.08,"body":"guess, for one of a better"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2503.08,"endTime":2505.93,"body":"phrase between technology,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2503.08,"endTime":2505.93,"body":"people engineering, people focus"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2505.93,"endTime":2508.99,"body":"on the like, the sharp edge of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2505.93,"endTime":2508.99,"body":"doing this work, and people"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2508.99,"endTime":2512.35,"body":"outside of that. And I think"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2508.99,"endTime":2512.35,"body":"something else that sort of like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2512.38,"endTime":2516.04,"body":"is like a barometer for how I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2512.38,"endTime":2516.04,"body":"doing is can I go to a sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2516.28,"endTime":2519.28,"body":"meeting with someone and not"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2516.28,"endTime":2519.28,"body":"have to bring an engineer along"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2519.28,"endTime":2522.25,"body":"to sort of like translate or,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2519.28,"endTime":2522.25,"body":"you know, be support or anything"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2522.25,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"else like that. So I think I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2522.25,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"think those things have always"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2524.68,"endTime":2527.38,"body":"factored in my mind. And then"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2524.68,"endTime":2527.38,"body":"like, as to how practically I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2527.38,"endTime":2530.02,"body":"have sort of, I think stayed in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2527.38,"endTime":2530.02,"body":"touch with like, technology is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2530.2,"endTime":2534.73,"body":"like, at my heart. I'm like a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2530.2,"endTime":2534.73,"body":"massive nerd. And so I see"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2534.73,"endTime":2537.46,"body":"things and like, for me, it is"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2534.73,"endTime":2537.46,"body":"like the solution is just write"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2537.46,"endTime":2541.45,"body":"some software. And so I haven't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2537.46,"endTime":2541.45,"body":"stopped writing software in sort"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2541.45,"endTime":2545.5,"body":"of some capacity at all, in my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2541.45,"endTime":2545.5,"body":"mind, whether it's like hacking"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2545.56,"endTime":2548.65,"body":"a Raspberry Pi around to like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2545.56,"endTime":2548.65,"body":"control the lights in my house"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2548.68,"endTime":2553.45,"body":"or, you know, writing some like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2548.68,"endTime":2553.45,"body":"open source software over a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2553.45,"endTime":2557.05,"body":"weekend. I think just being"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2553.45,"endTime":2557.05,"body":"curious and keeping your hand in"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2557.08,"endTime":2560.32,"body":"is sort of the the way that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2557.08,"endTime":2560.32,"body":"that's that stayed about but"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2560.98,"endTime":2564.22,"body":"yeah, I don't know, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2560.98,"endTime":2564.22,"body":"I feel like I've sort of seen"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2564.22,"endTime":2566.86,"body":"the future of where I might draw"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2564.22,"endTime":2566.86,"body":"the line or where my sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2566.86,"endTime":2569.89,"body":"knowledge is. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2566.86,"endTime":2569.89,"body":"crypto in that it's sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2569.89,"endTime":2573.73,"body":"like, I see things and I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2569.89,"endTime":2573.73,"body":"I don't understand any of those"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2573.73,"endTime":2578.59,"body":"words. I also have precisely no"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2573.73,"endTime":2578.59,"body":"desire to go and figure it out,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2578.59,"endTime":2581.65,"body":"either. I'm just like, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2578.59,"endTime":2581.65,"body":"is this what is this what my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2581.65,"endTime":2584.62,"body":"like, grandparents thought of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2581.65,"endTime":2584.62,"body":"email and they were just like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2584.98,"endTime":2587.26,"body":"it's never gonna catch on, don't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2584.98,"endTime":2587.26,"body":"worry about it kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2589.75,"endTime":2591.49,"body":"Definitely that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2589.75,"endTime":2591.49,"body":"and I feel the same as you as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2591.49,"endTime":2596.98,"body":"well. Unfortunately, we are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2591.49,"endTime":2596.98,"body":"running out of time. Before we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2596.98,"endTime":2601.0,"body":"let you go, as with all of our"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2596.98,"endTime":2601.0,"body":"Humans+Tech guests, we have four"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2601.21,"endTime":2604.51,"body":"quick fire questions we like to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2601.21,"endTime":2604.51,"body":"ask everyone. So I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2604.51,"endTime":2607.12,"body":"send these your way very"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2604.51,"endTime":2607.12,"body":"quickly. And yeah, let's get"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2607.12,"endTime":2610.21,"body":"your rapid responses. So the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2607.12,"endTime":2610.21,"body":"first question is, what's your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2610.24,"endTime":2611.65,"body":"top book recommendation?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2614.09,"endTime":2616.04,"body":"I'm gonna, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2614.09,"endTime":2616.04,"body":"gonna be really, really Oh, no,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2616.04,"endTime":2619.34,"body":"it's not lame. \"The Field Guide"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2616.04,"endTime":2619.34,"body":"to Understanding Human Error\" by"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2619.34,"endTime":2621.26,"body":"Sidney Dekker, absolute belter."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2622.79,"endTime":2624.14,"body":"Never heard of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2622.79,"endTime":2624.14,"body":"it. Amy you're nodding your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2624.14,"endTime":2624.44,"body":"head."},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2624.47,"endTime":2626.21,"body":"I've never heard"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2624.47,"endTime":2626.21,"body":"of it either. I've never read"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2626.21,"endTime":2628.61,"body":"it. I've never heard of it and"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2626.21,"endTime":2628.61,"body":"nobody has ever recommended it"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2628.61,"endTime":2629.45,"body":"before. So"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2629.6,"endTime":2631.28,"body":"I was about to say"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2629.6,"endTime":2631.28,"body":"Harry Potter"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2633.32,"endTime":2634.82,"body":"So if you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2633.32,"endTime":2634.82,"body":"recommend a book Amy doesn't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2634.82,"endTime":2637.67,"body":"heard of, she's my sort of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2634.82,"endTime":2637.67,"body":"litmus test for if it's worth"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2637.67,"endTime":2640.85,"body":"reading or not. She's read"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2637.67,"endTime":2640.85,"body":"everything, so this is you've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2640.85,"endTime":2643.43,"body":"broken the broken that rule."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2640.85,"endTime":2643.43,"body":"Okay, great. Question number"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2643.43,"endTime":2646.88,"body":"two. What are Who is your number"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2643.43,"endTime":2646.88,"body":"one tip for keeping up with the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2646.88,"endTime":2647.36,"body":"industry?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2648.65,"endTime":2650.9,"body":"Former guest on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2648.65,"endTime":2650.9,"body":"this show, Kelsey Hightower."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2650.99,"endTime":2652.01,"body":"Absolutely love the guy."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2653.24,"endTime":2656.27,"body":"Legend. He's,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2653.24,"endTime":2656.27,"body":"he's incredible. Yeah. Great. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2656.27,"endTime":2659.63,"body":"mean, related question number"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2656.27,"endTime":2659.63,"body":"three, who inspires you in tech?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2661.64,"endTime":2663.5,"body":"Can I cheat and"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2661.64,"endTime":2663.5,"body":"say, Kelsey Hightower?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2664.61,"endTime":2666.29,"body":"Who else inspires"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2664.61,"endTime":2666.29,"body":"you in tech?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2668.13,"endTime":2672.57,"body":"Who else inspires"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2668.13,"endTime":2672.57,"body":"me in tech? Frank Slootman. I"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2672.57,"endTime":2678.63,"body":"think his name is the former CEO"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2672.57,"endTime":2678.63,"body":"of ServiceNow. And now working"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2678.63,"endTime":2682.77,"body":"at Snowflake, I think he is a a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2678.63,"endTime":2682.77,"body":"very interesting guy, written a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2682.77,"endTime":2685.08,"body":"bunch of books, worth checking"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2682.77,"endTime":2685.08,"body":"out and he's been on a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2685.08,"endTime":2685.68,"body":"podcasts too."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2686.34,"endTime":2689.22,"body":"Amazing. Great."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2686.34,"endTime":2689.22,"body":"And the final question of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2689.22,"endTime":2692.43,"body":"four quick fires. What's the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2689.22,"endTime":2692.43,"body":"most ridiculous thing about you?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2694.68,"endTime":2702.78,"body":"Oh, gosh, what's"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2694.68,"endTime":2702.78,"body":"ridiculous about me, ah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2702.78,"endTime":2705.09,"body":"know, can I cheat and ask for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2702.78,"endTime":2705.09,"body":"what other people have said"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2705.09,"endTime":2708.54,"body":"ridiculous about them? Or Amy,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2705.09,"endTime":2708.54,"body":"what's ridiculous about me?"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2708.0,"endTime":2710.61,"body":"We can give you an"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2708.0,"endTime":2710.61,"body":"alternative question actually,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2710.61,"endTime":2714.99,"body":"which will bethemed. Tell us"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2710.61,"endTime":2714.99,"body":"about your favorite incident,"},{"speaker":"Amy Phillips","startTime":2715.41,"endTime":2716.61,"body":"nightmare story?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2717.23,"endTime":2722.54,"body":"Oh, I can I can do"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2717.23,"endTime":2722.54,"body":"that. Yeah, so I had my fair"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2722.54,"endTime":2726.71,"body":"share of incidents over over my"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2722.54,"endTime":2726.71,"body":"time. I think the, the very,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2726.71,"endTime":2730.01,"body":"very worst one that I had is one"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2726.71,"endTime":2730.01,"body":"that I wrote a public post"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2730.01,"endTime":2734.39,"body":"mortem for at Monzo, which was"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2730.01,"endTime":2734.39,"body":"where we were scaling up our"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2734.39,"endTime":2738.62,"body":"database, which is an incredibly"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2734.39,"endTime":2738.62,"body":"routine operation that we had"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2738.62,"endTime":2741.38,"body":"planned for, and we had run"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2738.62,"endTime":2741.38,"body":"through in like, pre prod"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2741.38,"endTime":2744.59,"body":"environments, and done a lot of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2741.38,"endTime":2744.59,"body":"work for and when we went to"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2744.59,"endTime":2749.0,"body":"production, it all went to shit."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2744.59,"endTime":2749.0,"body":"And we broke a lot of things for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2749.0,"endTime":2752.24,"body":"a lot of people and took an"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2749.0,"endTime":2752.24,"body":"entire bank offline. And we,"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2752.27,"endTime":2756.32,"body":"yes, it turned out to be a"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2752.27,"endTime":2756.32,"body":"single, like, boolean flag that"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2756.32,"endTime":2761.6,"body":"was true and should have been"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2756.32,"endTime":2761.6,"body":"false. And so lots of, lots of"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2761.6,"endTime":2766.7,"body":"pain ensued. And, yeah, we wrote"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2761.6,"endTime":2766.7,"body":"in detail about it, so I won't"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2766.7,"endTime":2769.7,"body":"go too far into it right now."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2766.7,"endTime":2769.7,"body":"But I'm sort of getting the cold"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2769.7,"endTime":2770.72,"body":"sweats just thinking it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2772.22,"endTime":2773.78,"body":"I'm getting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2772.22,"endTime":2773.78,"body":"sweaty palms and I wasn't even"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2773.78,"endTime":2780.26,"body":"there. Wow. I mean, a great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2773.78,"endTime":2780.26,"body":"thing to live through well done"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2780.26,"endTime":2783.26,"body":"for getting on the other side."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2780.26,"endTime":2783.26,"body":"Yeah. Amazing. And finally,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2783.29,"endTime":2784.91,"body":"where can people find out more"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2783.29,"endTime":2784.91,"body":"about you?"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2786.74,"endTime":2790.01,"body":"I guess either, for"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2786.74,"endTime":2790.01,"body":"me, me personally, follow me on"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2790.01,"endTime":2792.77,"body":"Twitter. I have a ridiculous"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2790.01,"endTime":2792.77,"body":"handle that you can't pronounce."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2792.77,"endTime":2799.22,"body":"But it's like evnsio or"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2792.77,"endTime":2799.22,"body":"Incident.io. That's a good place"},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2799.22,"endTime":2799.85,"body":"to find more."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2800.39,"endTime":2802.43,"body":"Amazing. Great,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2800.39,"endTime":2802.43,"body":"Chris, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2802.43,"endTime":2805.28,"body":"taking the time to talk to us"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2802.43,"endTime":2805.28,"body":"today. Learnt a bunch and loved,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2805.34,"endTime":2807.95,"body":"loved hearing your stories. It's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2805.34,"endTime":2807.95,"body":"been a lot fun. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Chris Evans","startTime":2808.37,"endTime":2809.21,"body":"Thanks very much."},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2811.91,"endTime":2813.8,"body":"We'll be sharing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2811.91,"endTime":2813.8,"body":"all the links in the show notes"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2813.83,"endTime":2818.24,"body":"plus the all important doodle"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2813.83,"endTime":2818.24,"body":"over on Humansplus.tech. I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2818.24,"endTime":2821.18,"body":"Aaron Randall. This is Amy"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2818.24,"endTime":2821.18,"body":"Phillips and you've been"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2821.18,"endTime":2823.19,"body":"listening to the Humans+Tech"},{"speaker":"Aaron Randall","startTime":2821.18,"endTime":2823.19,"body":"podcast."}]}