REAL TALK - Come Follow Me

Genesis 12-17; Abraham 1-2 | February 7-13 - Episode 7

February 06, 2022 Season 3 Episode 7
REAL TALK - Come Follow Me
Genesis 12-17; Abraham 1-2 | February 7-13 - Episode 7
Show Notes Transcript

1 + God = Enough
A Little Lot
Every Car is a BMW

Lesson 7
“To Be a Greater Follower of Righteousness”
#OldTestament2022 #comefollowme #comefollowme2022 #realtalkcomefollowme

What is the Abrahamic Covenant? What does it entail? 

To help answer these questions, John discusses the three Ps of the Abrahamic Covenant. Ganel-Lyn talks about covenants and how they’re her why. And both hosts reflect on God being a God of boundaries

Invitation: Look for evidence of God’s light and truth in other religions.

Links to Sweet Salt outfits/Seagull Book jewelry:
A-Line Pleated Detail Dress
https://www.sweetsaltclothing.com/a-line-pleated-detail-dress-pink.html

Let God Prevail Gold Rectangle Necklace
https://www.seagullbook.com/let-god-prevail-necklace,html

Link to Come Follow Me Through the Old Testament:
https://www.seagullbook.com/come-follow-me-through-the-old-testament.html 

Real Talk is presented by Ganel-Lyn Condie and John Fossum.


Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Real Talk comm. Follow me. Hi, John

John Fossum:

Hello again Ganel-Lyn.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

So excited. Do I say that every week? Yes, I do. No, I think I think we do. paranoid about what would happen if I said, I am so bored. And I don't want to do this week. Are we just supposed to say hi, hi, let's get the podcast listeners have no idea what facial expressions we're doing right now. This week, we are talking Genesis 12, through 17. And Abraham one through two were really like just a warning, you are going to hear the word covenant so much, and we're not apologizing for that. It's our it's our total bias.

John Fossum:

We do not apologize for the month of February, it's the center of the narrative it is, if we didn't talk about it, we wouldn't be being true to the Scripture, right?

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

And really, I think why we said in January, the OT is the OG right? We are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is still very covenant focused. And we're going to see it in the Old Testament. And for me, that's a really big why. And we're going to talk about that covenants were an important part of the people's interaction with each other. And that is in the confirm email. And you'll and I think that is a beautiful consideration. And last week, when we were discussing Noah and the Tower of Babel, I, I really hope that as we are learning the nature of God, and we had a big discussion about that last week, to realize that Noah, and all these amazing prophets, leaders, individuals this year, they were having kind of a one on one direct relationship with God, they did not have an app on their phone to pull up other books of scripture from what we know no other like historical precedents to draw from right, they have the advantage, right? We can say, hey, this is how God interacted with Noah. So what does that tell me about my interaction with him

John Fossum:

Very in that sense in their interactions, with God.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

And I think sometimes we're gonna see that we're going to see, maybe Abraham has a different experience than Moses does. And I like the analogy of the elephant, right? So maybe you see Abraham over at the tail. And he's like, Oh, it's really thin and wirey. And Moses is like, no, it's smooth. And he's over at the tusk. Right? And, and Noah is like, what are you guys talking about, and he's at the foot. So I think as we're talking about this, there is great benefit to use some of the cross referencing of the Book of Mormon and Doctrine & Covenants, because it gives some context to how Moses is referenced by Nephi, when he's trying to tell his brothers like we can do this hard thing get in line. And so I just think it's a Real Talk experiment to kind of see that what we're learning about God through these individuals is kind of a perspective from them. And not maybe a global statement about God will always interact this way.

John Fossum:

Yeah. And I love that the diversity of God's interactions with his children, and we have all these different sort of flavors, right? But they're all God. Right. And so there's a lot that can be learned by kind of taking a more of a cross section approach to our analysis of his character andhis nature.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Which is probably great preface to be made before we talk about some of the drama this week.

John Fossum:

Oh, my goodness, I mean, absolutely. It's gonna fit in perfect. Yeah. Well, speaking of covenants, I think it might be a good I want to just share something that has been helpful for me over the years when it comes to understanding and remembering at least what we mean when we say the Abrahamic Covenant. God, what what does that mean? What does it entail? Obviously, a covenant that God made with Abraham. God says in Genesis 17, "to I will make my covenant between me and thee", another good resource for this particular week is found in our Gospel Library app in the Come follow me lesson. There's a little short sort of section entitled, thoughts to keep in mind the covenant and just gives you a little re sort of explanation of Abrahamic covenant, what it means. I remember sitting in some training years ago, where they talked about the three P's of the Abrahamic covenant. And these three P's capture sort of the essence of what God promised Abraham. He promised Abraham posterity, first P, the second one property, and then the third one, priesthood. Now those three P's of the Abrahamic Covenant could be a semester long study, right? We don't do that. Right?

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

We do 20 minutes.

John Fossum:

20 minute episode really difficult. Very fast moving Yeah. But I would invite our listeners to consider what each of these pieces of the Abrahamic Covenant posterity, property and priesthood might mean, in their own lives, as they strive to live according to the covenants they've made with God. So.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

And I think it is so helpful. Some of these words like the new and everlasting covenant or the Abrahamic Covenant or the doctrine of Christ. They're there. That's verbidge that we say it so often. But then if you're teaching Sunday school and you go, does anyone want to tell us quickly? What is the Abrahamic covenant? And it's crickets, right? Or what's the doctrine of Christ? Everyone's like, ah,

John Fossum:

like three P's three, three P's. Yeah. He's super helpful.

Unknown:

Yes, super hopeful. My covenants are my why I've said it on the show a number of times. So it's part of the reason why I've had courage mustered to go forward this year. In our study, Elder Christofferson recently shared that "a unique aspect of the covenant path is our relationship with deity." We talked about this last week as well. "The covenants God offers to his children do more than guide us, they bind us to him and bound to him, we can overcome all things." It's this, this quote is found in our Real Talk journal on page 22. If you have that, and I just want to share with some sensitivity, because I understand from a child's perspective, what divorce feels like. And so I, I hope our viewers will understand and that the Spirit will help communicate what I'm trying to say. We just celebrated our 30th anniversary gratulate Thank you. And we were married in the Portland temple this last September, we were able to be there and for the first time in 30 years, go back and do work there. And I can feel the emotion as we pull to the parking lot. We parked and as we got out, I don't know how to describe it. And so this is where I'm praying our viewers and listeners feel the spirit of what I'm saying. I felt in real time the Lord give me a perspective of where exactly what Elder Christofferson says here, where my covenants had found me to heaven, and kept us. And we've hit some rough spots, 30 years of ups and downs. It was a brief moment, where almost I felt the curtain pull back. And it was allowed for a moment to remind me that as and I felt this, in my mind, my husband was having a similar experience. The emotions were so strong, and I knew and we were able to testify to our children. There was no way we would be there after 30 years without our covenants. And when the Spirit showed that, to me, it was a little scary, because I could feel also God saying, I'm showing you this because of what's to come. Yeah, right. And I need you, I need you to know, this is why it's worth the effort to keep those covenants because they literally bind you to me. And so thank you for letting me kind of flesh that experience out. And I really hope that it strengthens our listeners wherever they're at on the covenant path, because it's a path.

John Fossum:

Yeah, thank you for sharing that as a beautiful, vulnerable story. And it's like any spiritual experience again, it's just so hard to put into words, you know, you just can't capture it. Sure, the way that it completely happened, you know, but I felt the spirit of that and I've felt the spirit of that same truth. My wife Sarah has often said that her why in staying in the church is also just covenant she's made with Jesus. That's what she says she's like, I'm just I've made promises with to him and to Heavenly Father through ordinances and I'm just gonna kind of keep them Yeah. And she's had witnesses through her life that its covenants and staying true to those covenants, that brings about so much confidence, strength, and peace.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

I love it about Sarah, we share a little passion on cross wearing and Jesus loving, right?

John Fossum:

That's absolutely reminds me of Abraham chapter two, verses seven and eight. I love these verses. I say that in these verses, God is flexing. He's just a god. And these verses I love what he says to Abraham. He says, For a for I am the Lord thy God, I dwell in heaven. The earth is my footstool. I stretch my hand over the sea and it obeys my voice, I cause the wind and the fire to be my chariot, I say to the mountains, depart hence and behold, they're taken away with a whirlwind in an instant suddenly, okay, it is it. I mean, it's to me,

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

he's dropping mic

John Fossum:

He's flexin'. Yeah, but he's just building Abraham is trying to show Abraham that when you depend on me, you can feel confident, if you listen, he goes on to verse eight, my name is Jehovah hears Jesus of the Old Testament, right? I know the end from the beginning, therefore, my hand shall be over the and I just think, what kind of confidence must that have filled Abraham with? And I think of your story, right? And the confidence that living a God centered, covenant centered life, man, it just brings into our life so much confidence and power. Abraham's priceless response to this Abraham 212 He says, Thy servant has sought the earnestly now I have found the he found in God, the covenants, the confidence he needed through covenants. And then Abraham to 16. Therefore, and this is this is what I was thinking about. You said your story here. Eternity was our covering, and our rock and our salvation as we journeyed. It just becomes this beautiful metaphor for life. The pitch we talked about last year, is life is hard. And we know that it's not easy for anybody. But life is simplified a bit. When we live according to the covenants we've made with God.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

I love that testimony of Abraham and reminding us of the power of God in our lives. Can we jump to Lot?

John Fossum:

Let's do it!

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Can we do a little Lot?

John Fossum:

There's, let's recognize it. There's a lot of stories about Lot that we just don't have time to hit on.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Other shows may talk about it, right? We're doing a little Lot. Not a lot, Lot. Okay, there's a little Lot okay. So where I wanted to flesh this out, Real Talk journal, page 20 talks about this, boundaries. To me, this is a beautiful story of Abram saying to Lot in verse eight, Genesis 13, let there be no strife, I pray the between me and thee and between my herdmen. And thy herdmen. For we be brother.

John Fossum:

Because they were so they're, they're in one geographical area, and their families are just getting too big, and they start a fight with each other. He's saying, let's

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

do a boundary here. We got a yak about, yeah, your space, my space, because we don't want to get on each other's nerves, right. And I love the importance of boundaries. We share this in the journal that God is a God of, of boundaries. And there's a licensed clinical social worker, Kevin, and I can't say his last name, because I will butcher it, that he says despite our best efforts to accomplish everything, we may believe we are just not doing enough. But that's not true. The truth is, we don't have an endless supply of time, energy and resources, we can't be everywhere and do everything for ourselves and everyone else, we're only human after all. But we can support and serve others while maintaining our well being. The key to this balance is setting healthy boundaries. setting boundaries means recognizing your personal limits, and establishing parameters to protect yourself from being violated, neglected or manipulated. And I think that's so important that God is a God of no Nephi was directed at a certain point, you're done with this experience this stewardship, it's time to separate from you. Yes. And I think sometimes we don't want to say no, because we feel like it's not loving. But as we really consider that that connection with God, loving doesn't mean total access. God has boundaries with us, he says no to us all the time. And so oftentimes, we get that blurred in our minds. And I think really the story of Abraham saying to lot, I think we need some boundaries, it's to preserve a loving relationship. And maybe it's a great week, to assess your own boundaries and your own relationships, and where maybe they need to be adjusted so that you can be not in strife is Abraham.

John Fossum:

And when I think about setting boundaries, and being at peace with those boundaries, genuine connection with God is a prerequisite. He, I can't because a lot of times those boundaries get blurred because I feel like I have to let everybody in because that's where I get my sense of purpose of meaning of worth worth, right. But if I'm already filled with that, by the only source of true worth, then it's easy for me to establish those boundaries and not be sort of debilitated by shame or guilt about it. And I love the concept. You've probably heard this principle. It's a popular principle, but I love it. It's simple. And it is one plus God equals enough. Totally one plus God equals enough. And that's my I have a testimony of that, that whenever God is with you, whenever he's your center. I don't know it's just easier to establish healthy boundaries with the world in general.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

And not get into the hustle of doing right,

John Fossum:

I love in Genesis 13 where God tells Abraham he right. goes first of all, let's let's share the detail. Right? Abraham's I hear Lot choose, you can choose the plush land, plains, prairies and fields have rivers and it's all fertile and beautiful, or the barren desert. And he's like, Well, I'll choose the nice, fruitful area. And Abraham said, Cool, whatever. And I thought to myself, What would give him the ability to just be okay with that, because he knew that lame early he was genuinely Okay, he's fine. And then I just,

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

he was definitelyin stewardship mindset.

John Fossum:

Yes, that's a great moment for that. Genesis 13, 14 through 17 God walks with Abraham says, walk through your land, your does your desert wasteland or you want to say yes to this right? He walks through. And as he's looking around, verse, verses 15 and 17 He says, all the land which LCS to the will I give it for I will give it and it's like almost like a Why should I enjoy this desert? Well, because every desert blooms when God is the caretaker of it, right? Every every land is a paradise when I'm walking with God, Abraham seems to have known that. I like to say, every Car is a BMW.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Are you going to tell us why?

John Fossum:

God is at your center?

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

I want you to tell us why.

John Fossum:

I'll tell you. Some time ago, my wife insisted I buy a nicer car for myself, because I've never really had one, right. And I've never really required one. I'm not that kind of guy. You know, I was just kind of like, well, whatever, you know, this one runs out, I'll drive it. But she convinced me to do it. And so I bought this really nice BMW, and it was so beautiful. Yeah. And people kept saying things like, Oh, you can never go back to another to a junky car now, you know? And I was like, No, I think I don't need this car. I'm grateful for it. And that's the key, I think a stewardship principle, right, be grateful for but I don't need it. And the opportunity came, or I'm gonna have to pay for three missionaries, 333 years. And I thought, Where can I find all this money? And I could maybe just, you know, try to come up with a payment every month for the next three years.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Take a fourth job.

John Fossum:

Yeah. Or I was like, Oh, wait, there's money right there. I can just sell the Beemer. And I did. And all three missions are paid for because of it, which gives me so much peace. But people, they're like, Oh, how are you enjoying? Your Toyota Camry? Your old car. And I gotta be honest, I just love it. And I feel so grateful for the opportunity. I had to drive such a beautiful car. But so grateful that I've been provided for in this. My older car that still runs. Every car feels like a BMW to me.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

And Abraham was totally fine with the desert.

John Fossum:

Okay, totally. And guess what? It turned out awesome for Abraham. And it'll turn out awesome for us. If we just one plus God is enough. In all things.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

I love that. Genesis 15. One says, that the Lord came into Abram in a vision saying fear not Abraham, I am my shield. And by exceeding great reward, right? Once again, God's reminding God plus Abraham is totally enough, right? And the Lord has promised Abraham children and he has this promise that it's as the dust of the earth like it's massive. But if you see in Genesis 13, 16, you know, they're starting to get worried he and his wife are going to talk about oh, they're getting old. And I'm just going to say, maybe this is a great verse, verse one, I like a good verse one, to put your name in it, fear not Gaylin I am nice shield and they exceeding great reward, I will just say quickly, I've shared it before my own journey with infertility. I do think infertility is a theme of the Old Testament. So we're gonna have a lot of chances to talk about it. But I was promised to have the health and strength that I needed to do the mission I have been sent to do and was diagnosed with a chronic illness, lupus and a heart condition. And many times I would get worried, and I still do and I will go back to that, like God plus me as enough through that blessing as a promise. So that's my little shout out as we dive into a soap opera

John Fossum:

well, and like you said, we'll have more opportunities to talk about it on in the Old Testament,

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

which is exactly what we're about to,

John Fossum:

soap opera, my goodness,

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

soap opera.

John Fossum:

So we all we know this story, I'll just give the basic parameters. For those that are listening, you know, not maybe on their device or haven't studied the Scripture block yet. This is what we call the soap opera of Sariah, Hagar and Abraham. Sariah she can't have kids. She's getting nervous. And so she gives her handmade Hagar to Abraham, which was a thing back then

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Cause this promise is not being fulfilled, right?

John Fossum:

Absolutely. So as soon as Hagar gets pregnant, Sariah gets resentful. And she treats her really cruelly, to the point where Hagar runs away. And there's this beautiful moment where Hagar is has she's she's run away. She's in the desert. She's like, I'm not going back to that crazy place. You know what I mean? And I love here, Genesis 16. Yeah. And angel of the Lord appears to Hagar in the wilderness and says, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. This sounds like a reiteration a continuation of the Abrahamic covenant. After all, the child through Hagar will be Abraham's seed, right? Verse 11, the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shall bear a son, and shall call his name. I almost want to say like Emanuel, right sounds very, this is an angel heralding heralded birth. He said, you will call His name Ishmael, because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. So when God tells Abraham that the priesthood line of his covenant is going to go primarily through Isaac, who's going to be born later, Abraham in the future in a future chapter, kind of his heart breaks for Ishmael because he loves Ishmael. That's his son too. And Abraham says in Genesis 17, just fast forwarding little bit, says, Oh, that Ishmael might live before the God like, don't What about your smile? And look at what God says about Ishmael in verse 20 of Genesis 17. I'm not sure this is emphasized enough in our particular religious tradition. As for Ishmael, God says, I have heard the, I have blessed him, and I will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly 12 princes shall he beget? What does that sound like the 12 tribes of Israel, right? This is just a sort of an I will make him a great nation. I see Ishmael and his posterity as a continuation, obviously, of the Abrahamic covenant, or his seed will fill the earth and be a light to the earth. We'll talk about that in a second. And then Isaac is the Pashtun line. That's going to have priesthood authority ordinances things that assignment. That's right. That's right.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

And Joseph Smith Translation right away, right in verse 28, is like, by the way, Sarah, that promise, it's going to happen. This time set in this year, right? And I wonder at that moment, if they're like, oh, yeah, like, I often feel like I shouldn't have doubted, yeah, I shouldn't have stressed it's coming.

John Fossum:

So check it out. To kind of wrap things up a little here,

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Ishmael,

John Fossum:

Ishmael, his posterity, of course, through through all the earth today. Maybe one of his most famous descendants is Mohammed, who in 610 ce ad, has a vision. And these this is the origins of Islam, Islam. Right. And I'm afraid sometimes we don't appreciate sort of the role that Islam specifically and other religions do the same, but the role that Islam has played in this world in terms of bringing light into it. We talked earlier about the five temple covenants we make, right? Well, Islam has five pillars, listen to these five pillars, for those of you who aren't familiar with it, and tell me this isn't some beautiful light and knowledge that God is infusing into the earth through Ishmael, his posterity, the five pillars of Islam, faith, prayer, fasting, charitable giving, in pilgrimage, which becomes this metaphor of journeying through life until you you know, you reach Gods back to God's presence type of thing,

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

which sounds very plan of Happinessish,

John Fossum:

Plan of Happiness, right. I love it with all my heart, I, I just think I wish we would be able to sort of see the the role these other religions play a little bit better. Instead of looking at ourselves as sort of the exclusive owners of truth and light in knowledge. Understand that God is busy at work with all of his other children. He loves them all through all these different veins and branches, infusing light and goodness throughout the entire world.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

And I think it's such a great reminder that this year, we really hope our viewers invite their friends and family of other faiths to join us. This is Old Testament. So there's a there's a big net for those that are interested. And when I traveled in the Middle East, I remember turning touring the Grand Mosque in Bahrain, having that exact awareness of like, I was looking at my counterpart, she speaks she writes a book. Yeah. And she's talking to me about her faith, and we're sitting in this mosque that has symbolism that looks very much like the Mount Timpanogos temple symbolism. And I just thought there's so much if if, if it was culturally allowed for us to talk more openly, which it wasn't at that place. I had things I wanted her to teach me. And there's so much I love your reminder that these pillars of Islam are a gift. And really just to end with the fact that this is a covenant conversation. This is where the covenant of circumcision is brought up. And I would just say that there are covenants for a time and for people and I think when God is saying to certain people at a certain time, you know what, porque is the biggest No, no, and I need you to circumcise your boys at this age. And wine is okay. Polygamy is totally great. And then we're in 2022, right? And it's like, I can do bacon on my hamburger. I'm totally good. But I need to put the wind down, right? And I think sometimes when we look at covenants through the lens of the Old Testament, we may wonder, scratching our heads like KY was it fine then and it's not fine. Now, I would just like to suggest that God sees what He wants His people to become. And I would say culturally, we have a different obligation and probably weaknesses that he knows will be more of a stumbling block at this time in our lives. And so our covenants reflect what would best serve us in our becoming. That's my quick synopsis of circumcision.

John Fossum:

Man, we got through a lot today.

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

Yeah, we did.

John Fossum:

Let's finish with a quick invitation. My invitation today comes with a verse of Scripture bonus on top of the bonus we've already given you. This comes from Alma 29: 8 you God says, "For behold the Lord doth grant unto all nations of their own nation and tongue to teach his word yay in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have. Therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel and wisdom according to that which is just and true." So our invitation to you this week is to look for evidence of God's light and truth in other religions. And we think that as we do that, we'll come together even more as communities and societies and as a world and our love for God and for the Savior. We hope you had a good experience today. Until next time, thanks for joining us on Real Talk Come, Follow Me. Do you like Real Talk Come, Follow Me

Ganel-Lyn Condie:

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