How We Money: Ashley and Chuck Shaver

Build, buy, or remodel? With the chaos of the housing market in recent years, many homebuyers are feeling stuck. Small business owners Ashley and Chuck Shaver chat about their housing situation, dreams of building on a two-acre lot, and how their financial histories impact it all. Equal Housing Lender.

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Transcript

- We still have these goals for our future of retirement and savings. And now that we have a son together, we have to consider, you know, his future as well.

- Yep.

- And that's on a higher priority list than building this new house.

- Yeah. [upbeat music]

- Welcome to Common Cents on the Prairie™, a podcast dedicated to helping you demystify the sometimes complex topic of money. I'm Adam Cox, head of wealth management for The First National Bank in Sioux Falls. We're a community bank based out of South Dakota. In this podcast, we share expert insights from around the country and stories from our local community to arm you with the tools you need to make better financial decisions. Because the truth is, the more we talk about this stuff, the better off we're all going to be. Dr. Ashley Pfaff-Shaver grew up on a farm in Ipswich, South Dakota. She earned her doctorate in chiropractic from the University of Northwestern in St. Paul, before starting her own practice in Sioux Falls. Ashley specializes in prenatal and pediatric care and is passionate about helping mamas and their babies. Chuck Shaver grew up in Indianapolis as the youngest of five. He attended Ball State University in Muncie, Indiana, then spent two years in Arizona before moving to Sioux Falls. Chuck's career in technology sales led him to a full-time job as the president and founder of CS Sales Consulting, where he trains companies on how to leverage LinkedIn and social selling. Ashley and Chuck have been married for eight years, and their three-year-old son, Beckham, keeps them on their toes. Chuck also has two daughters from a prior marriage, Lauren and Haley, and Ashley is proud to be their bonus mom. I hope you enjoy this episode with Chuck and Ashley. Ashley and Chuck, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for joining me.

- Thanks for having us.

- Yeah, thanks for having us.

- Oh, this is going to be fun. Alright, I like to start these conversations from the beginning. Obviously we're going to talk a lot today about housing, which is a huge, hot topic right now, but let's set the stage a little bit. I'd love to know early memories around money. Like, those things are transformative for us a lot of times and help shape the way we view money as adults, so I'd love just a story or two about your experience with money growing up. Chuck, do you want to start?

- Sure. Well, internally, I mean, my parents directly to me were, you know, always said to live within your means, you know, be very conservative, to not get caught up in material possessions. You know, that was always the, now as far as expressing too much finance, I mean, my dad was very adamant about wealth, religion, politics should be private.

- [Adam] Mmm.

- You know, and only internal to the family or your closest friends. So, you know, there wasn't communication outside of the family.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- But they directly were very much like, I don't care if you make $25,000 or $250,000 a year, you can always live beyond your means and that's an insecurity. That's something that'll get you in trouble. So don't have credit card debt, don't, you know... Live within your means.

- Sure. So but it was talked about inside the family.

- Oh yeah.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- Oh yeah.

- That's interesting. I mean, not every family's like that. Obviously there are some families that, even internally, obviously, especially in the Midwest, right, we don't talk about those things outside of the family, but even inside the family that just wasn't talked about. So that's, that's awesome.

- Yeah.

- [Adam] Cool.

- Yeah.

- Ashley, how about you?

- I think I was raised similarly.

- [Adam] Yep.

- With conversations as a child within our household, I mean, money was talked about. Lessons were always, like, given around certain things. I can remember, I mean, I mean my mom was very conservative. I mean, both my parents are conservative, but my mom was the more conservative one.

- [Adam] Mm.

- So she was always the one that was, you know, checking prices and doing all the things, but as a kid, I don't remember having a negative viewpoint on money.

- Yep.

- But it was really openly talked about within our family and there was always, especially with my parents, it was just always life lessons.

- Yep.

- To prepare us for adulthood really.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- And that really started early.

- Yep. Then as you became an adult, did you take a lot of those lessons with you and do you feel like you're pretty similar to your parents now or did you go a different direction? How did that shape you as an adult?

- Yeah, well, I'm a rule follower.

- Okay. [Ashley laughs] A perfectionist. Raised as a firstborn. So I took those lessons and really brought them into my own adult life.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- So I think that really shaped me.

- Yep.

- You know, as far as, again, living within my means, always, you know, prioritizing, like, you know, obviously paying your living expenses, you know, saving for retirement. Even at a young age, I was very aware of that.

- Yeah.

- Putting money away. And then, you know, I, you know, coming through a doctorate program, I had student loans and then I opened a practice and had business loans and really made that my top priority of getting those paid off as quick as I could.

- Yep.

- Versus buying a new fancy car or, you know, I just prioritized, you know, my basic essentials.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- And my retirement, and then paying off debt as soon as I could.

- Yeah. Mmm. I had a bit of student loan debt myself, so I understand that and very, very similarly, my parents were conservative, live within your means, the whole thing. And so, like, I felt a huge weight when I had that debt when I started my career. And it was like, I got to get out up from under as quick as I can. And it's like, that's probably my parents coming through, it wasn't just me so-

- That was the same for me. [Ashley laughs]

- Okay, same for you. How about you, Chuck?

- I would say that in my early youth, I kind of rebelled against that a little bit.

- [Adam] Did ya? Okay

- It's like you- Nobody wants to really as a teenager and in your early twenties, you know, listen to their parents, and I was the opposite, I was the baby, so I was the youngest of five, so I was maybe the spoiled one, but, you know, I was also the one that got all the hand-me-downs. I was the one that, you know, my parents had a ton of expenses by that point, and I never got a fancy car or designer clothes or things like that. So I think once I was in control of my own money and earning my own money-

- [Adam] Yeah.

- It was like, well, now I'm in control, I'm going to, you know, I might put some money on a credit card. Hey, I might buy that fancier car.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- Or those flashier clothes. So yeah, in my twenties I didn't listen to them, but as I aged, you know, I realized that the stress of living paycheck to paycheck was wearing on me.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- And wasn't, the joy wasn't there anymore.

- [Adam] Yep.

- And so material possessions became less and less important over time.

- Yep, yeah. You two have been married eight years?

- We have. [throat clears]

- How did the two of you meet?

- We met at a charity function.

- [Adam] Oh.

- So we have a close mutual friend that I know very well that bought a table at this event. I was Mcing, it and she brought her as a guest. And so, you know, I was in a suit, I was on my best behavior. [all laugh] I wasn't anywhere near the bar or anything else, you know, so she's like, who's that guy? Oh, that's my friend Charlie. And oh really? That's that guy I was going to set you up with, but you guys aren't, you guys don't line up. You know, you guys aren't a perfect fit. And she's like, why not? He looks cute. [all laugh] And so that's what I heard.

- That's his story.

- That's my story.

- That's your version of the story.

- Yeah and, you know, I made my way over there after the event and said hi to Amy, Amy Hoback, our friend, and she introduced us.

- Yeah.

- And, you know, we all just kind of socially hung out in similar circles. It was SME.

- Okay, yeah.

- It was the leads group that it was this event. And then we got on a committee together. So she became, if you weren't already a part of SME, but we got on their like Christmas committee.

- Sure.

- You know, planning committee, and so we worked very closely together and got to know each other and just kind of, you know.

- [Adam] Went from there.

- The rest is history.

- The rest is history.

- Well shout out to Amy for reluctantly setting you two up.

- That's right.

- Yes.

- It's all her fault.

- Yeah, that's right, that's right. So, alright, when the two of you got together, how soon did you start talking about money? I'm always interested in that couple's journey. Like, is that first date or you've been made married eight years and you still haven't talked about money?

- [Chuck] At least third date.

- Yeah, well, I think for us, I mean, we weren't kids when we met.

- Yeah.

- And so we both had established careers. We both had our own established life.

- Yep.

- And so I think not just money conversations, but I mean we talked about everything pretty early on, really transparently because, you know, if we were going to continue to date and build a life together, we just wanted to be transparent so we were on the same page.

- Yeah.

- And I mean, for a lack of better words, not wasting each other's time.

- [Adam] Yep.

- Initially. So yeah, it was really early on, and I think we found that we aligned our values and just aligned in the way we were raised. And ultimately it was just we could see ourselves with the same life goals.

- Mm-hm, yep.

- In the future.

- Well, you two, you weren't like a couple broke kids.

- We weren't broke kids.

- No, who didn't have anything, yeah.

- Yeah.

- We weren't blinded by love.

- Okay. [Ashley chuckles]

- Despite how good looking she thought you were-

- That's right.

- From the first date.

- Yeah.

- I was good looking.

- Yeah, yeah. Well, in a suit, I mean, you know, yeah.

- About 30 pounds lighter. [all chuckle]

- 10 pounds or 10 years younger.

- Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Chuck, you were married before?

- I was.

- And so, and had a couple children.

- Yeah, two daughters.

- So you were coming into the relationship maybe a little bit differently. How did that inform the way you merged finances or talked about finances? [Chuck clears throat] Yeah, I mean, I had, you know, two young daughters and so, you know, and that comes with expenses.

- Mm-hm.

- You know, to contribute to raising them, so that was a part of the financial factor. You know, I was running my own business. I was, you know, raising two daughters already. You know, I had, just like Ashley said earlier, I mean, I had my own obligations that I was attending to, and she had her career that she was, you know, attending to. And you know, we were very clear about what that meant.

- Yeah.

- In a relationship to, you know, move forward.

- Yep.

- So we did, you know, we were like, Hey, you're awesome, you know, but let's make sure we can check these boxes.

- Yeah.

- You know, because neither one of us, you know, want to move forward into something that's not going to be worth moving forward.

- Eyes wide open.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Eyes wide open. Okay. All right well the big reason we're having this conversation today is because when we met and we talked about your money story, one of the things I was struck with was how similar of a position that you two are that my wife, Diane, and I have been or just maybe came out of, and that's really talking a lot about housing. And there's a lot of people in this country right now who are probably feeling a little bit stuck, and they want to move up in house or they want to get into that first house, but for a variety of reasons that has gotten really, really expensive over the last few years. So, just a bit of context, you know, we're recording this in September of 2024. Over the last three years, housing costs have increased dramatically, whether it's an existing home or a new build, and the cost of finance. Those have increased dramatically. So interest rates have gone up, you know, three X even in some cases from where they were a few years ago. All the while, everything that we have purchased has gotten more expensive, from property insurance to taxes to toilet paper. Like, everything's more expensive. So we basically have a lot of people around the country right now who want to move into their first home, but don't think that they can maybe afford that payment now. Or they're in their starter home and they're growing their family and they're running out of room and they want to move up in homes. Or even people who have established homes, a large home who don't need it anymore, who are thinking about normally downsizing, thinking, well, it would cost me more money to downsize to half the house, so I'm not sure I want to do that. So this whole environment is feeling a little stuck. Now rates are coming down, and so we might see some shift in that, but what I appreciated about your story was, for Diane and I, we spent the last five years kind of, will we or won't we move? And it was like a roller coaster maybe, would be how I would describe it. And on one month we'd say, we're moving, we're absolutely moving. And the next month it was like, we're never moving. And we even remodeled at one point just to be like, all right mate, this will be fine. This will be fine, right? But we never felt settled. And so when you were telling your story about what you're thinking for housing, that really resonated with me. So with that long intro, let's unpack it a little bit. So tell me about the current home you're in and how long you've been in it.

- Well, we've lived in our current home for eight and a half years.

- Okay.

- We built that right when we got married, so that was our first home together and we love our neighborhood. We've got plenty of room for our family. You know, there's things we, you know, everyone you could change this, that, and the other thing about your house, but we like our home.

- Mm-hm.

- I think our biggest thing is we just want a little bit more room and privacy on the outside.

- Yep.

- Right? A little bit bigger yard, especially having a three-year-old to play, and so we kind of knew that going into this house that it might not be our forever home.

- Yep.

- So yeah, that's where we're at now.

- So the big question is what's your current mortgage rate, and how long do you have left in your mortgage?

- So we can, we can back that up. When we first built our house, I mean, in today's, you know, situation, I mean we had a pretty low interest rate.

- [Adam] Yep.

- We were at about four and a half percent.

- [Adam] Yep.

- We put it on a 30 year. With everything moving and changing in the markets and the unknowns, we decided that because, you know, debt is, we don't like overhead debt.

- Sure.

- So we started, you know, making double or triple payments and really started to pay off that loan.

- And that was primarily because the 4.5%, the market was horrible.

- Yeah.

- The other investing opportunities were really low returns.

- Yeah.

- So we were like, why would we put our money away for 3% here when we're paying 4.5% there?

- Yep.

- So we were like, yeah, we could throw it in this investment, but if you look at it from, you know, the money standpoint, we're way better ahead paying off this 4.5%-

- Sure.

- Than making 3% over here.

- Yep.

- Now that's flipped.

- Yeah.

- [Ashley] Yeah.

- Right, yeah.

- And now, and then-

- Three years later-

- Mm-hm.

- You know, interest rates got-

- Yep.

- About two and a quarter.

- Yeah.

- And, you know, we sat down and penciled it out, and how long are we going to stay, and does this make sense? And so, we refinanced.

- For a 15.

- [Adam] Okay.

- For a 15-year.

- So you went from a 30 to a 15.

- Right.

- Went to a 15, and so currently we're sitting at just a little above two and a quarter interest on our house. [all chuckle]

- Little different than current market.

- It's a little bit different.

- Yeah.

- It's like 2.375.

- Oh man, yeah,

- Yeah, yeah.

- What a dream.

- With 10 years.

- Yes.

- 10 years left on a 15-year.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

- Okay, because you were paying extra too.

- Right.

- Yeah.

- And the amount is a fourth of the value of our house.

- Sure.

- Because it was a lot cheaper to build when we built.

- Yep.

- And we put a lot down.

- [Adam] Yep.

- On it initially.

- [Adam] Yep.

- And then with the buy down over the first few years we had gotten, and plus now it's worth a lot more than it was.

- Yeah, right.

- So all those things teetering, I mean, we're in a very good equity spot.

- Yeah.

- On it, but-

- And so you've gotten to a place that-

- We have a very affordable mortgage payment.

- You have a very affordable mortgage, and even if you did nothing else, you could see the finish line pretty clearly.

- Yes, yeah.

- Okay, but that maybe isn't where you want to be, so you bought a lot.

- We did.

- Yeah, okay, tell me about the lot.

- Well, we've known about the lot for maybe as far as six years ago.

- Okay.

- We're friends, we know a lot of builders, but we are friends with the builder that used to be in our neighborhood that kids go to the same, you know, daycare, etc., etc. We have a lot of history in intertwining with them. And he got turned onto this new development that was coming, and it was going to be this great smaller community, big lots, a lot of privacy, all this stuff. So we kept in contact with him. It was like every few or six months it'd be like, oh, we're getting closer, we're getting closer. And then about three years ago, they finally got it developed and done and here's the deal. And we were both talking about two lots, the him, them and us.

- Okay.

- And I'm like, whichever you don't want, we'll take the other one. And he ended up taking the smaller lot.

- Okay.

- And so we got this, you know, two-acre lot.

- Yep.

- With privacy.

- Yeah.

- You know, so we don't have a neighbor behind us and it's two acres. Some of it's water, you know, so it's like a little stock pond with fish in it. Everything we'd ever dreamed of. You know, we got the privacy, we got the room, we can go take the kid out, you know, fishing in the pond kind of thing.

- But you haven't built on it.

- We have not.

- Yeah, because it's expensive.

- Because it's expensive, because it's expensive yeah. So bring us into your living room a little bit. What conversations have you had about this? Like, I'm always, I know the conversations Diane and I have had about it, but I'm always interested to like, how have you processed this? So you see cost of building going up, you see interest rates going up, but you also have this dream lot over here on the side that you'd like to be in.

- Right.

- Take us through those conversations. What are the questions you're asking yourself? Like what does that sound like?

- Yeah, I think initially when we purchased it, I mean, we looked at it as an investment.

- Mm-hm.

- Of, you know, the city is growing, there is not a lot of vacant land.

- [Adam] Right.

- Available to build on. This was in the part of town that we already live in. You know, my practice is in, so it made sense. And I think initially it was like, let's buy it as an investment.

- Yep.

- If we don't keep it, we can sell it.

- Oh, so you did have that thought that hey-

- Oh yeah.

- Yeah.

- Maybe we don't build there.

- And we've already had offers-

- Okay.

- Like tempting offers, like significantly more than we bought it for.

- Okay.

- So we, so that that's like, yeah, we can sell it for a price, even though we're paying the taxes on it.

- Yep.

- It's like, Hey, you know, we can make a little money on it anytime, anytime we want to back out.

- [Adam] Yep.

- So I think that was our initial-

- Sure.

- Like, because we knew if we waited till we were ready, well then, then what?

- Yeah, right.

- Right? And that's kind of that rollercoaster of like, okay, so we pulled the trigger there.

- We knew about it before anyone else did.

- Yeah.

- So it was just kind of like, we have to take advantage of it.

- [Adam] Yes, yeah, yeah.

- Yeah and I think other conversations, you know, just more into our personal lives is we've lived a lot of life in the last five years. You know, we've grown our family, that was not an easy journey for us.

- Mm-hm.

- So, you know, emotionally, time, and, it's no secret, financial, when you're going through something like that.

- [Adam] Yep.

- And that in the last five years was our top priority with also keeping, you know, us, each other in check of like we still have these goals for our future of retirement and savings and now that we have a son together, we have to consider, you know, his future as well.

- [Adam] Yep.

- And that to us is more, that's on a higher priority list than building this new house.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- I think the other conversations we're having is, and I think this is with most people, it right now is, I mean, you can't turn on the TV and I mean, it's literally in your living room every night of, and it's, you know, I think we're in this, you know, election year, whether that's hot button or not, but I mean, it is the reality is what's going to happen.

- [Adam] Yep.

- Are interest rates going to continue to drop? What's going to happen with those building costs? Are they ever going to come down?

- [Adam] Right.

- Are they going to stay the same? Are they going to go up?

- [Adam] Yep.

- You know, and so these are conversations we're having, you know-

- There's a lot of conversations.

- Every 24 hours to once a week. And you talked about the rollercoaster, which it's like, well, it could be 24 hours. We're like, we're building and now we're not.

- Yeah.

- And then we're going to sell the lot and no, we better sit on it. I mean, I think we're in the same boat as a lot of people.

- She struggles with the, I think for the most part, the financial aspect because her level of conservative is like uber conservative.

- Okay, yep.

- So, so she-

- If I could pound-

- She knows that this is not going to be, this isn't going to be an inexpensive starter home. You know, this is going to be an expensive place with everything that's going on. So she's like, I know we're going to have to spend a lot of money, so I don't want to compromise. This is the dream home. I don't want to comp, I don't want to skimp. And then it's like, okay, well then let's build that, let's build that, let's build that. And then she can like flip and go, what do you think we're made of money?

- Yeah. [Ashley laughs] You know, and it's like, but wait a second. You know, I thought, I thought you, I want to, so it's like I can jump on her wagon of excitement.

- Yeah.

- But if-

- But not too much.

- But if I don't pull back on the reign.

- Yeah, that's right.

- If I don't temper it a little bit, if I get like more excited than her, if I get a little ahead of her at all, she's like, okay, you're losing your mind. That's way too, we can't do that. [Ashley laughs] We can't have a helicopter pad on the roof.

- Oh my gosh, whatever.

- Yeah, I love it. Oh, that's great. Yeah, I'm laughing especially because- Yeah, that's been my life.

- And I mean, truth be told, we're like Zillow junkies, so it's like-

- Oh, every day, every day.

- Would be easier to-

- That one's got mature trees. Would it be easier to renovate that one?

- Then you can zoom in on the lot.

- Than to build.

- We could renovate. I mean, so we're, it kind of depends on the day, the week you catch us in on what we're doing.

- Yep.

- And for us, I think we don't have to move.

- Yep.

- We don't have to sell our house.

- We've got a good thing going.

- So we're not in any, you know, we don't have timelines, we don't have a deadline. We're sitting in a nice spot for our family, which I think has taken the pressure off of both of us.

- Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's hilarious. Like Diane and I would say, well, let's just do a renovation because we wanted to be in an established neighborhood with mature trees and the whole thing. And then I would think like, I don't want to live through a renovation. Are you kidding me? Like, I can barely sleep the way it is. Like now I'm picking out tile, and I'm getting a call that the siding fell off the house. Like I can't do that. So, all right, let's build.

- [Chuck] Right.

- Let's build. We even had plans drawn up and like we're going to build. And then the cost is like- [Adam takes deep breathe]

- It's shell shocking.

- Okay, well I guess we don't need grass or landscaping, right?

- [Chuck] Not year one.

- No, not year one.

- And that's the other thing, it's like to try to design a home right now, I think that it is that compromise of like, and we're in the process of it, of designing and meeting with-

- We're pretty close on the design.

- [Chuck] On the design.

- Meeting with a builder and a drafter.

- Yeah.

- You know, sometimes I leave there and it's just like, but I'm not going to give up what I already have.

- Yeah.

- To spend more money to compromise just to build a new house.

- [Adam] Yep.

- Like that just doesn't make sense to me.

- Yeah, the thing we would always come back to is that the cost value never really intersected.

- Yeah.

- At a place we were comfortable. And so we went through it for five years.

- [Chuck] Mm-hm.

- I don't know, someone asked me the other day, how many houses did you look at? I mean, on Zillow, two billion. [all laugh]

- Yeah.

- Right?

- I could tell, yes.

- But in person, yeah, I don't know if it was, maybe 15.

- [Ashley] Yeah.

- Something like that. But every time it would always be, oh, that costs a lot and I just don't see the value there. Like, it just doesn't, that's a nice house, but it's not a fill in the blank nice house kind of thing.

- Right, right.

- Until we found a house that needed the most work and costs more than it should and we were like, I don't know if it was because we got wore down, we're like, screw it, whatever, we're getting the house and we're going to do this, now we're going to do a remodel. Now I'm having the same shell shock experiences you guys are talking about when you meet with builders and drafters and you're like getting the price, you'd be like, ah, I didn't ask you to rebuild it. [all laugh] Uh, just maybe take down the wallpaper. [all chuckle]

- Yeah and we're also like the Parade of Home junkies.

- Oh, you-

- You ever go to the Parade of Homes, you'll see us, right? We have been for years. We've, I just like design, I like ideas. I just love that kind of stuff.

- Yep.

- And then we will go and we get all excited and then, you know, you see the pricing and then we-

- They want a million dollars for that?

- Yeah, yes, yes.

- And then we'll come back home and then we walk into your own home and I'm like, huh, this place is pretty nice.

- It's not so bad. [both laugh] It's not so bad.

- I think we'll stay here.

- Yeah, that's right.

- [Ashley] Yeah.

- It scares us. You know, it gives you good design ideas.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- But also scares you.

- Mm-hm.

- I mean because the, you know, Parade of Homes that we went to five years ago was not the Parade of Homes-

- No.

- You know? It's like here's these three houses over a million dollars and you go into those houses and it's like, oh my god.

- Yes.

- Now it's like, you know?

- Yeah.

- It's a significant-

- I can remember-

- You can see it.

- Yeah, I can remember distinctly as a child the event of driving to Sioux Falls's first million dollar home.

- Mm.

- Oh yeah.

- Like my parents, like we have to go see this home.

- [Chuck] Yep.

- We heard they paid a million dollars for it.

- [Chuck] Right.

- And it was the one.

- [Chuck] Yep.

- In Sioux Falls. And we just like, you know, all the slow cars are just like whoa kind of thing and now-

- Was it on the south side?

- Oh yeah.

- I'm almost positive we also came-

- That was the house you grew up in? [both laugh]

- Yeah, out eight miles west of Ipswich, or south of Ipswich, sorry. Yeah, I'm almost positive as a child I drove by that house too.

- We all did.

- [Ashley] It was a thing.

- Yes, we all did, ah.

- Like we got to go see this.

- Yeah, that's hilarious.

- Yeah.

- How close did the two of you come to pulling the trigger?

- Not close, not close.

- We're about six months. We're always six months out.

- We're always six months away.

- Okay.

- Let's get this done so we can break ground in the spring. Well we missed spring, you know, that's what she was talking about last night.

- Yeah, I'm not, I'm not ready for the fall, the fall digs, so we're pushed back out to the spring.

- Sure, sure.

- [Ashley] Right?

- Okay and you, I mean, you even planted trees out there, didn't you?

- Yeah, a few.

- Atta boy.

- Some of them even lived. [Ashley laughs]

- I'm doing great. She gives me so much crap.

- Oh, that's hilarious. Oh, you're nurturing, you're nurturing.

- Don't buy saplings to plant on a lot if you don't have a way to water them. That's rule number one. [Ashley laughs]

- This is basic stuff.

- Other than a five gallon bucket into a pond and hand watering them.

- Sure, sure.

- Unless you're hard up for things to do.

- That makes it very difficult.

- Yeah.

- Right.

- Well, I think maybe another factor we should talk about is both of you are business owners.

- Mm-hm.

- So how has that played into your like equation of whether or not you should build? Does that add more risk or is it less risk because you're your own bosses?

- Well, for me personally, I work out of the home. She does a little work in the home, but I mean she's got a brick and mortar. She's B2C kind of thing. Me, I do most of my work out of the home. And my office is set up in one of our bedrooms. You know, so it's not the ideal situation for me. So I see an advantage in building because I could build a proper, you know, office for myself and make a better space. But yeah, that's me, but-

- Hmm.

- I would say as business owners, and I think I learned this early on, going back to how I was raised is, you know, my dad was more of a risk taker. He farmed, you know, he always would say like, I'd rather get up in the morning and bet on myself.

- Yeah.

- My mom's more conservative. She was a nurse and she always worked for the big corporation and she always knew, you know, this is what it is.

- Yeah, every two weeks I'm getting paid this.

- Yeah, yes and here's my benefit package and all the things. So for me being a business owner, I think I don't see it as a bigger risk because I'm kind of the same way. When I get out of bed in the morning, I'd rather bet on myself. I can see all the behind the scenes. I'm a nerd when it comes to like business stuff. I love Excel spreadsheets, I love data. I love analyzing, I love knowing all the numbers, which to me gives me the data I need to know. So if I need to course correct or we need to go a different direction, to me, if I worked for someone or a big corporation, I probably would always have in the back of my head, like hopefully on Monday morning, I don't walk in and there's layoffs, right? And so I think, I don't think that's played a big factor with us both being business owners.

- Yep.

- Yeah, if anything it's given us more flexibility.

- Okay.

- I mean, because we're both small business owners.

- Yep.

- You know? So if we are looking on, we've got a lot, you can see more into the future.

- Yeah, sure.

- And I think you have more securities in some once you get a certain runway.

- [Adam] Yep.

- Especially when you're established, right?

- Yeah, yeah, for sure.

- I mean you've been doing this long enough.

- I know that if I need to add a lot of, you know, capital assets to my business this year, that profits might be down. So I can see that, I can plan that.

- Yep.

- You know, and that, that'll affect the income that I'm bringing out of the company kind of thing.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- But it's very true. I mean, I started most of my career was, you know, working for other companies in sales.

- Yep.

- And you know, in sales, I had years that I was, you know, set records in the company. Some that might still stand at some employers. And I had some that I got fired because I had three quarters in a row that I didn't exceed quota.

- [Adam] Yep.

- And everything in between. So it's stressful. It's not secure.

- Yep.

- You know, necessarily. So yeah, the betting on yourself is where I'd rather be be these days too.

- Sure. Well, and Ashley, you're a planner, right? So you like-

- Oh I am.

- You like to know the cash flow. So this, this made me chuckle. What are you doing today to get prepared financially for the possibility of building this home?

- Yeah, so I mean, we've kind of figured out where our, you know, budget is for building this home and what we're comfortable with. And we've taken the current interest rates and I've, you know, we just put, every month I put that additional what-would-be mortgage payment above and beyond any of our daily expenses now, or our current mortgage or taxes or any of that and I'm putting that in a high-yield savings account. And one, it just gives, it's almost like rewiring my brain, right? So it's like I see it leaving my account, it's going into a different account.

- Yep.

- Like I'm paying it. I mean the bonus is, you know, it's a high-yield savings account right now.

- Still your money, yeah, yeah.

- Right. But I think that's helping with some of our budgeting and just knowing like we can still keep our priorities where we want our money to go.

- Yeah.

- There's always been this, can we afford this?

- Yeah.

- You know? And so this is that proof of concept.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Let's see if we can afford this without getting in with the commitment itself.

- Yep, their practice payments.

- Yeah.

- So homes are more than just buildings, right? They're a place where you raise your family, you're making memories, and you have that today in a home you've been in eight and a half years. What, if any, factor is that in this decision?

- I mean, it's been eight years, not 80 years, third generation, you know, it's not like we're selling the family farm.

- The family farm, yeah. [all chuckle]

- You know, so I don't, for me personally, you know, it was a great part of our life.

- Yeah.

- You know, it was the beginning of our relationship kind of thing. So, I mean, there are a lot of memories in it, but I'm not so attached to it that it would bother me personally to leave for this opportunity. How about you?

- No, I think, I think we focus more on like talking about the future of like, oh, we have this big yard and Beckham can be running around and seeing him, you know, in our minds as like older and throwing the football and casting off the dock in the pond and fishing and doing all that. This also new neighborhood, ironically, two families on our street, so like two and three houses down, he's went to daycare with these kids since he was little, like an infant.

- Yep.

- And so-

- In the new neighborhood.

- And seeing that, like that he could continue to grow up with these kids that he spent, you know, well three years with, that's his entire life.

- Yep.

- That's kind of exciting too.

- Yeah.

- I mean it's, it's like, what is it, 70 lots in a section and there's a couple little water features, you know, throughout it. And it's very, you know, it doesn't have, you know, any other buildups around it.

- Yeah.

- So it's just, we know it's going to be a great neighborhood.

- [Adam] Yeah.

- It already is. I mean, it's about probably 80% built out right now.

- [Adam] Hmm, okay.

- So we've got houses on both sides of us going when, when, when, when are you guys breaking ground?

- Yeah, yeah.

- You know, I don't want dust flying through my house.

- Exactly.

- When you breaking ground.

- Exactly.

- And so it's-

- Yeah, I think we're looking forward-

- Another six months.

- Yeah, you're thinking more forward then-

- Yeah, we've got awesome memories in our home now, but I also think that, you know, for us and family, it's like, it's the people and not the structure always.

- Yep, yep. So where are your heads at today? You still six months out?

- I think we're six months out.

- We're six months out.

- Six months out.

- Yeah, when the frost comes out in the spring, you can talk to us again and see where we're at.

- Yeah, so when we do a where are they now.

- Yeah.

- 18 months from now.

- I'll be with a excavator out on the lot.

- Yeah.

- Give me a thumbs up.

- What do you think would be, this is my last question, like what do you think it would be the thing that pushes you to say one way or the other we're either building or not?

- I think we're going to build.

- You think you're going to build.

- It's just when.

- Okay.

- Mm-hm.

- Okay.

- I think it could be a couple of different factors. I think if interest rates plummeted in the next six months, I think that would make it a lot easier decision. I think if she gets comfortable with a final design and we get a bid that she's comfortable with the price tag, we both are, that would get exciting enough for us that we would, you know, get started.

- Yep.

- So because the future looks bright as far as, you know, like finances as far as like interest rates. You know, we're supposed to have trend downward a little bit. I don't think building costs are going to change that much and in five years from now they're going to be more anyway. no matter what the rollercoaster happens. So if we build a house and it's this much now, it's going to be worth that much later. It's just the nature of real estate. So the quicker we build, the cheaper it's going to be to a certain extent. And if interest rates lower, just like we did in our existing house, we can always refinance. If it makes sense so-

- Guys, this was awesome. Thank you so much for bringing us into this conversation. It's the same conversation that's happening in millions of households across the country right now, and I appreciate the insights and thank you so much for joining me today.

- Oh, thanks for having us.

- Thanks Adam.

- I look forward to seeing you in your new house.

- That's right.

- Alright.

- You'll get the invite.

- All right, thanks guys.

- Alright.

- [Adam] I hope you found this helpful. If you did, please subscribe and share with your family or friends. If you have a topic you want us to cover in future episodes, send us a note through our website. And if you're at the point where you want an expert opinion on your finances, reach out and we'd be happy to start a conversation. And remember, any comments, insights, or strategies discussed on this podcast are intended to be general in nature and, therefore, may not be suitable for you and your situation, whatever that may be. Before acting on anything we discuss, please consult with your attorney, CPA and/or your financial advisor.