How to Stop Normalizing Dangerous Behavior When Your Child Struggles With Addiction and Mental Health, with Dina Cannizzaro

EPISODE DESCRIPTION:

If you've ever found yourself tiptoeing through your own home, rehearsing conversations to avoid triggering an explosion, or even putting a lock on your bedroom door for protection—you're not alone. Today's conversation with Dina Cannizzaro, Hopestream's Director of Education, confronts the uncomfortable reality so many parents face: how profoundly we normalize dangerous situations when our child struggles with substances.

Dina brings battle-tested wisdom from parenting her son Parker through nine years of IV heroin use (now nine years sober) and coaching hundreds of families through similar chaos. She shares the exact phrases that helped her reclaim emotional safety, the incremental boundary-setting approach that actually works, and why maintaining your sanctuary matters more than keeping an artificial peace.

This episode offers concrete strategies for those moments when you realize you're living in cognitive friction—simultaneously loving someone while feeling unsafe around them. Dina's approach alchemizes tough love into something more nuanced: fierce protection of the relationship itself, not just the person.

You'll learn:

• The exact phrase to use when verbal abuse erupts (and why repetition matters)
• How to distinguish between privacy and safety when deciding about bedroom locks
• Why leaving your home during conflict might signal defeat—and what to do instead
• The incremental boundary approach that builds your confidence from dishwasher disputes to dealbreakers
• Why confiscating substances from your teen's room isn't overstepping (it's parenting)
• The difference between emotional safety and physical safety—and why you deserve both
• How to humble yourself without sacrificing dignity after heated exchanges

As always when we get to have Dina on the podcast, it's a note-taking worthy hour you do not want to miss.

EPISODE RESOURCES:

• Episode 138 with Dina: Creating Conditions For Change
• The Chinese Farmer Hopestream episode 173 with Dina Cannizzaro
• Partnership to End Addiction - free resources for families 

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
Find us on Instagram here
Find us on YouTube here
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

Hopestream Community is a registered 501(c)3 nonprofit organization and an Amazon Associate. We may make a small commission if you purchase from our links.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dina: I love you too much to allow this to enter our relationship 'cause it's gonna have detrimental effects. So I'm gonna walk away until such a time when you can speak to me with respect. We can pick this up later and to walk away and if they follow you to walk away to your place where they can't follow you, be it in your car to take a drive.

[00:00:22] Dina: But I hate. Having parents leave the house. So my preference is that you stay in your home, which is your sanctuary and your home. And you go into your bedroom, or if you have to go in your bathroom and lock the door, just to be away from them and, and have that physical boundary. It's really important, but you could use that same line until they believe you.

[00:00:48] Brenda: Welcome to Hope Stream the podcast. For parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane. I've walked this path with my own child's addiction and high risk [00:01:00] lifestyle. Each week we help you gain clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly, find real hope in what might feel helpless.

[00:01:09] Brenda: You are not helpless, and you're not alone anymore. Find more resources@holingcommunity.org. Hi, friend. I am just going to give you a tip. Upfront on this episode that you may wanna have something available to take notes with because I have the one and only Dina Zaro with me for this episode, and she's gonna share some ideas and even actual phrases with you that you are going to want to remember before we dive in.

[00:01:40] Brenda: Can we breathe for a second? I know I need to remind myself daily to stop just for a couple of minutes. Be where my feet are and take those few deep breaths. I like to repeat in my mind while I'm doing this. Breathing in, I know I am breathing [00:02:00] in, breathing out, I know I am breathing out. It sounds so silly, but it helps keep my mind from wandering all over the place to the million things I need to do.

[00:02:15] Brenda: So hit pause if you need to for a minute now, and breathe, knowing you're breathing in and knowing that you're breathing out, it is magical. And also grab some water while you're at it. Dina Zaro is our Director of Education at Hope Dream, and she is also a parent coach for couples and individuals who are navigating this insanity of loving and parenting a child.

[00:02:43] Brenda: Regardless of their age, who's struggling with mental health and substance use issues, she is a battle tested mom herself, parent to Parker, who is now nine years sober after a horrific span of IV heroin use and addiction, [00:03:00] and no one breaks it down more clearly or precisely than Dina. I asked her to come back for a third episode because the topic of normalizing the abnormal.

[00:03:12] Brenda: Personal and emotional safety comes up so often in our community and those that I work with. I felt it deserved its own episode. It's a difficult topic because none of us want to believe we have a child who could or would ever harm us, whether that is with words or actual physical aggression, but given the substances, their minds are subjected to, unfortunately, it's not that uncommon.

[00:03:40] Brenda: We dive into what you can do if your child is being verbally abusive to you. Tips for the kids who continue to use substances in your home despite your very clear message that it is not allowed. And Dina, who I consider to be the boundary boss lady, gives real life examples, a boundary she had to hold [00:04:00] with her son Parker, in order to protect her emotional and physical safety and the safety of her other children.

[00:04:08] Brenda: If you wanna hear the other two episodes that Dina has done with me, check out episode 1 38 where Dina talks all about creating conditions for change when you have a child who is struggling. And episode 1 73, where we have a very special and relevant story, the Chinese farmer. What that story teaches us about parenting kids who are misusing substances.

[00:04:33] Brenda: So check those out. Episode 1 38 and 1 73 for even more of Dina. Again, grab your notebook. This is a gold mine. Take a listen to this practical and hopeful conversation with Hope Stream's. Own, enjoy.

[00:04:56] Brenda: Hello, miss Dina. Welcome back to the podcast. [00:05:00] Thanks, Brenda. Good to see you again. You too. I think this is number three, I wanna say for you, because we did the, remember we did the, um, Chinese farm? Yes. Which is a, like one of the most downloaded, it's. 

[00:05:15] Dina: Oh yeah. I love that story though. I really do 

[00:05:19] Brenda: too. It's so, so helpful.

[00:05:21] Brenda: So that if you haven't listened to that one, search on our website, Chinese Farmer and that one will come up. And though I did another one and I think it was about boundaries, actually. 

[00:05:30] Dina: Go figure. Because 

[00:05:31] Brenda: you were like the boundary boss. 

[00:05:34] Dina: Um, well, you know, I tried it. Yes. I was with Nan in my whole life. I'm still working.

[00:05:42] Dina: I'm a still work in progress on boundaries. Yeah. But I think that's something 

[00:05:45] Brenda: we always 

[00:05:46] Dina: work. 

[00:05:47] Brenda: It is. And they change, which is the interesting thing is they don't, it's not like you set a boundary. I mean, in some things you do with some of your core values, but as people change and households change and all [00:06:00] that situation changes.

[00:06:01] Brenda: Yeah. 

[00:06:02] Dina: It has to be fluid. Absolutely. It's not too fluid though. 

[00:06:05] Brenda: Insane. Fluid ish is what we can 

[00:06:08] Dina: say. Yes, I agree. I agree. 

[00:06:10] Brenda: So Dina and I were together. Actually we had a little offsite for the Hope Stream leadership team. We, we all work remotely and I don't know, maybe I am just old school 'cause I worked in an office for so long.

[00:06:25] Brenda: And you worked in a school setting where you were in person every day with the people that you worked with, and it just made things so much easier because you're there and you can just walk over to somebody and say, Hey. And so working remotely, it was a little, it's a little trickier, so we're trying to find ways to stay all aligned, and so we had an offsite, which was lovely for three days.

[00:06:45] Brenda: We got to be together. 

[00:06:47] Dina: We 

[00:06:47] Brenda: were so 

[00:06:47] Dina: fortunate. It was, I mean, that was just fantastic and so needed, like you said, not just to see each other face to face, but to collaborate ideas and bounce the energy off each other. That was [00:07:00] fantastic. 

[00:07:00] Brenda: Yeah, I think that is what I miss most about working in an office is that energy.

[00:07:04] Brenda: That you get, especially like if you have a deadline coming up or there's a big project that you're working on together. So anyway, the point of saying that was that we were together and we started having this conversation about how we become so, um, inoculated to what is normal. Now, obviously there is no correct, but what is, I would almost say healthy, like a healthy environment to live in.

[00:07:34] Brenda: You have the 

[00:07:34] Dina: norm of health, right? The norm of health. 

[00:07:37] Brenda: Yeah. And we, I don't know how we got talking about that among the million things that we talked about, but everybody was nodding like, yes, this is something that we need to talk about. Not only because we've experienced it, but because we see it in the community, in the stream with our moms.

[00:07:54] Brenda: So that is what we thought we would tackle today. [00:08:00] And let's start out by saying, by just having you share, 'cause you do so much coaching with so many of our members in the stream community, but also outside when we say emotional safety, that could, that could be kind of vague. So what, how would you describe, or how would you define emotional safety?

[00:08:20] Brenda: That's a great question. It's a good 

[00:08:21] Dina: starting question. 'cause I think emotional safety for me means that I'm not giving. 100% of my insight, my soul, who I am and what I represent to any one entity. And I think it's so like to reserve some for me because I think as, especially as women we're givers, yeah, it's easy to give 100% of your resources away, including your emotional state of mind.

[00:08:55] Dina: Whether it be to your kids, to your spouse, partner, uh, to your work, [00:09:00] uh, very rarely do we give a hundred percent of ourselves to our hobbies or to the things that fill our soul. We're usually giving and we don't routine enough of our resources, which to me is time, energy, and money, but we don't, um, retain enough of our resources to stay healthy.

[00:09:23] Brenda: So 

[00:09:23] Dina: we end up being burnt out. We end up feeling resentful. We end up not having enough balance in our life to be what we wanna be for other people. So I don't know if that was too long of an answer. No, but it means to me, it means giving all of yourself away and not reserving some of your emotional state for yourself.

[00:09:45] Brenda: That is extremely true. I can identify with so much of that. I think I would add to that emotional safety for me means, and I'm really specifically thinking back to when my son was really struggling. It means that you [00:10:00] can feel like you can say what you need to say without having to preplan it. Not like we often say practice your conversations, right as part of the invitation to change.

[00:10:13] Brenda: That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is. If I say it this way, is he gonna blow up? Or if I say this to her, is she gonna start screaming? Or I know another one. Another fear is, if I say this, is it gonna cause them to then go self harm or use? Yes. And to me that is not an emotionally sound or healthy way to live because you're constantly questioning how you're 

[00:10:42] Dina: saying everything, everything.

[00:10:45] Dina: Everything outta your mouth, every behavior, how you react to them. And I think that's a danger because we really, we just did a, um, invitation to change on that, um, that it's okay to [00:11:00] express your feelings because so many of us stray away from that outer fear of what you said, that that's gonna be the thing that puts 'em over the edge.

[00:11:09] Dina: Yeah. That they're, they are so mentally unstable. Anything we say or do could be the end of it. And taking on that much responsibility first isn't accurate. Like we don't have that much control. Right. Um, but secondly, like you said, is so unhealthy because it prevents us from ever having an outlet for our own feelings.

[00:11:32] Dina: So I love that you said that. 

[00:11:35] Brenda: Yes. So I think that. In case people are saying like, well, what do you mean emotionally safe? I think it's pretty clear what we mean by physically safe. To be physically safe in your own home or in your own relationships. And this is something that we cover at the beginning of every one of our sessions in the stream.

[00:11:54] Brenda: And I used to think, oh, maybe that's too much. You know? And then as [00:12:00] you listen to people's stories, and I'm sure you hear these in your coaching sessions of. Well, I put a lock on my door for a couple of reasons. One, because often there is theft and that makes total sense. But also from a safety standpoint, like I need to be able to have a place I can go to be safe.

[00:12:18] Brenda: And when we, when we're talking about this, normalizing the abnormal, that is not normal to have to put a lock on your door, in your own home to, to feel safe, right? 

[00:12:32] Dina: And there are so many parents who. Feel the need to do that, which I'm a proponent of being safe, and I'm a proponent of having a sacred space in your home.

[00:12:44] Dina: That's yours alone. But when you're worried about your physical safety and you're not doing it for your mental health, I think that crosses a line that becomes abnormal. And so many people think that's normal. It's not. And, [00:13:00] and having luck there isn't necessarily the worst thing. But thinking it's normal to have, to have a lock in your own home right, is not normal 

[00:13:08] Brenda: right now.

[00:13:09] Brenda: A lock for privacy. A lock, yeah. And also, you know, I, I do think that there's, there is a time when we know our kids are at higher risk of being susceptible to theft because they are withdrawing and they really need a substance and they're gonna look for whatever. Again, not normal. I just, I really worry when I hear our members and other people talk about doing things like that for safety and, and kind of almost laughing it off or making it sound like, well, you know, that's where we are right now.

[00:13:46] Brenda: And so that's, that's a big one. And I think it's so hard to talk about this because who wants to say. Or admit or even kind of think in our own [00:14:00] brain that our child could hurt us. That is the right worst, worst possible thing to think. 

[00:14:07] Dina: Yeah, and I, I think it leaves people with so much, um, shame and embarrassment to have to be dealing with this.

[00:14:16] Dina: And that kinda leads, in my opinion, to normalizing it, right? Because if I say it like it's no big deal. Then it's not as big of a deal as it really is and inside I'm pretty so badly having to have done this to protect myself physically. 

[00:14:35] Brenda: Yeah, totally. So 

[00:14:37] Dina: I think, yeah, there's a lot of shame involved in it sometimes for people.

[00:14:43] Brenda: Yeah, and it's, I, I think about the contrast of when my son was 16 and we had to have him transported to wilderness. For his safety actually. Um, at that point, I hadn't felt [00:15:00] physically unsafe around him. I felt very emotionally unsafe around him. It was like, okay, what, what landmine am I gonna step on today verbally that's gonna set him off.

[00:15:11] Brenda: And when he went to wilderness therapy and the next morning I told our younger son, you know, your brother is somewhere safe. He's getting some help. He's getting a break from all the insanity that we've been living and just the physical look on his face and his demeanor and he was like back to that old, you know, happy-go-lucky.

[00:15:33] Brenda: Yeah. Kid that I had, I had not seen disappearing over the last couple of years. And the lightness in our home, the just. I just like immediately recognized, oh my gosh, I can say whatever I want. Yeah, it says I don't have to think about it, couch it, you know, like plan six ways to Sunday of how it might go.

[00:15:59] Brenda: It was really [00:16:00] astounding, the difference. It's a 

[00:16:02] Dina: yes. It's a huge burden to carry that, especially when you have other kids in the home, because not only are you trying to protect yourself, but you're trying to protect the other kids. So. When Parker was at the height of his active addiction, you know, I actually had to draw a boundary and ask him to leave when he was 17 because of physical safety.

[00:16:27] Dina: Not because he was hurting us, but he was bringing people and allowing people to know where we live that were very dangerous people. Right. That he was interacting with. Um, we did not feel safe. Right. And. I had to do that and I really, I'll be, this is embarrassing, but I didn't do it for my own safety. I did it for my younger daughters.

[00:16:50] Dina: Yeah. Um, I don't know that I would've done it for me. Speaking of normalizing this normal, um, it's a really hard thing to do, but [00:17:00] same when we did that and when Parker actually made the choice to leave because the drugs were so important to him at that point. Um. Cassidy's demeanor changed tremendously because we were both trying to carry the burden of, are we safe?

[00:17:19] Dina: What's he gonna be like when he comes home tonight? Is it just is too much. So the emotional safety that goes along with the physicals, the idea a lot to bear, 

[00:17:29] Brenda: it is huge. And yes. Um. I was gonna ask you what, just for some examples, because I think examples are helpful. So that example of, you know, your child's bringing dangerous people around or, and mine did the same.

[00:17:47] Brenda: Uh, and that's exactly what we did. I had to, we were actually in the middle of a move, are not in the middle of a move, but we were moving and because he hadn't, you know, we gave him the option of not [00:18:00] using and. Participating and helping in the move and going to school and getting a job. And if you can do all those things, you can move with us.

[00:18:06] Brenda: And he did none of those things. He actually was doing the opposite. So we also had to say, you can't move with us, nor can you even know our address, because we were so afraid of the people that he was bringing around and dealing with. And that's so hard. It's so hard. And are there other examples of either emotional or physical safety that.

[00:18:29] Brenda: That took place with you that you would wanna share just as a way for people to relate? 

[00:18:35] Dina: Sure. Um, well, I, anybody who's like taken a workshop from me knows, I always say I lost, you know, Parker was using for nine years, but I lost three years of my life. I say to my emotional disconnect from life because it's the only way I knew how to get through before I had skills.

[00:18:56] Dina: I didn't really have any skills and I wasn't getting counseling in the [00:19:00] beginning. And once I started getting coaching and had a counselor, I got some more skills. But before that, uh, I remember I had made Parker and everything about Parker and his addiction, my life. It was like my idol. He was my idol.

[00:19:18] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:19:19] Dina: You know, in the true sense of it. Um, spiritually he was all I thought about. He was the reason I didn't sleep at night. He, it was, he dictated how my days went. And so I was just going through the motion of life and once I started getting some coaching and some counseling and was able to kinda back away from that even 2% so that perspective could start entering in through that little tiny gap that I left open, I was able to.

[00:19:53] Dina: Draw some kind of really clear boundaries about what I was and wasn't [00:20:00] willing to accept. So I'm, I am constantly telling parents, like, you know, who say like, my kid is calling me names and swearing at me and telling what me, what a horrible person I am. I always like to say to the kid, I love you too much.

[00:20:21] Dina: To allow this to enter our relationship 'cause it's gonna have detrimental effects. So I'm gonna walk away until such a time when you can speak to me with respect. We can pick this up later and to walk away. 

[00:20:34] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:20:35] Dina: And if they follow you to walk away to your place where they can't follow you, be it in your car to take a drive.

[00:20:41] Dina: But I hate having parents leave the house, so my preference is that you stay in your home, which is your sanctuary and your home. You go into your bedroom or if you have to go in your bathroom and lock the door, just to be away from them and, and have that physical boundary, it's really important. [00:21:00] But you could use that same line until they believe you.

[00:21:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, 

[00:21:04] Dina: because at first what would happen is I would draw a boundary with Parker, and he was not used to that, so he didn't believe me. So he keep pushing. Right. But when I was consistent with my words and my counselor gave me that one, I love you too much to allow this to be a part of our relationship. I love that.

[00:21:25] Dina: I would say that over and over, I mean, hundreds of times I have said that, and I can I say that now, like even if my daughter and I get into a little, uh, where the communication is going, I'm like, look, Cass, I love you too much to let this be part of our relationship. Let's pick this up. In an hour. Yeah. Or in a day.

[00:21:45] Dina: Yeah. Um, it draws a, a boundary and even if he wasn't respecting it, it let me have the space and time I needed to get myself to be emotionally in a safe [00:22:00] space. 

[00:22:00] Brenda: Yes. That, I 

[00:22:02] Dina: think that's, that's one. 

[00:22:03] Brenda: Yes. I bet people are gonna rewind right here and go back through exactly what you just said. It is so. Much more powerful to say that what you said, I'm not willing to let this part be part of our relationship and then step back, step away, get, get that space between you versus what I think happens most of the time.

[00:22:26] Brenda: And what I also did before I had any skills, which is you just start this screaming match. Yep. And it just becomes a power struggle. It gets uglier and uglier and more unsafe. Right. Because it's. Especially if they're under the influence, which of course we would always say never, never, never engage if they're under the influence.

[00:22:48] Brenda: Sometimes it's a little hard to tell depending on your child, so Right. It will just escalate, it will go nowhere. Things. It's just so 

[00:22:57] Dina: intense. Yikes. It gets so intense. [00:23:00] And then the fear and the, uh. The fright, everything takes hold and you're not even speaking the words you wanna speak. 

[00:23:08] Brenda: No ugly things get said that correct?

[00:23:11] Brenda: First of all, ugly things get said that you really don't mean, and also sometimes things get said that you will not, um, stick to, so you might, in that rage, you're not allowed to live here anymore. Here I'm taking away your car, like you make all of these. Threats. Yeah, threats and the threats, consequences that you know, you are not gonna hold but you.

[00:23:36] Brenda: You just are at your wit's end and you're screaming. So what Dina recommends here as far as this, this tactic for dealing with somebody who's yelling and in your face and disrespectful, it takes a lot of self-control. It takes being like regulated in yourself, which is why we are always talking about.

[00:23:59] Brenda: [00:24:00] Whatever you need to do, whether it's yoga or walking in the woods or something, to get yourself to a point where you can actually do this and, and I'm so glad that you said you had to do it hundreds of times because they will at first push and push and push because the minute you start holding this boundary, they're gonna be like, wait a minute, I had don't, I don't like this one.

[00:24:21] Brenda: Right, exactly. I used to get, but then they 

[00:24:23] Dina: start taking you serious. Yes. Because they see that you really will walk away from it. But more importantly, you won't engage. Yes. So when it becomes unhealthy for either of you that you decide you, you hit that pause button and you decide that you're not gonna engage.

[00:24:42] Dina: But always with that lovey remark, like, look, Parker, I love you too much to allow this to continue in our relationship. It's gonna do damage. I'm gonna say things, and you could be the person to be the bigger parent. I'm gonna say things that [00:25:00] I'm gonna regret, and I don't wanna do that. I, I wanna keep our lines of communication open, so I'm gonna walk away.

[00:25:07] Dina: Doesn't mean I'm not gonna come back, but in a rageful moment, you can't say all of that. So I just say, I love you too much to allow this to enter our relationship. 

[00:25:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, 

[00:25:18] Dina: if you wanna go into more explanation and you can do it without getting too wordy and, uh, without getting emotional. Fine. But if not, just stick to that one sentence and you say it over and over again and then walk away.

[00:25:31] Dina: Um, it works. It, it really does work. It 

[00:25:36] Brenda: does. And I like what you said about, if you, if possible, don't leave your home, because I think there's a signal in that of like, this is not my space. So if you can stay. I remember I would sometimes go for a walk, which is leaving the home. But it made me feel so much better that, you know, and I would say what I need right now is to [00:26:00] walk and to cry.

[00:26:02] Brenda: And I'm sure many, you probably did too, had so many neighbors that probably wondered what the heck was killing on. 'cause I would walk around our neighborhood crying. Ugly crying with the Kleenex and you know, but it helped just to move my feet, have some fresh air, get away, and it is amazing, even with a kid who, and both of ours were, I would say, on the high end of extreme, by the time I would come back, usually he would be gone, which was good 'cause I didn't want him there.

[00:26:40] Brenda: Or if he was there. He actually had noticed that I had taken the time to do something and take a time out, and he had calmed down it. It wasn't like unicorns and rainbows or anything. No, 

[00:26:52] Dina: but even a notch helped. Absolutely. Even a notch. Okay. Because what I found is if both people [00:27:00] come back and they're just a notch different, I oftentimes would start with, and I've told people this over and over again.

[00:27:10] Dina: By humbly myself first and saying, I need a do over on that. I totally excuse my language. F that up. Yeah. And it's not who I wanted to be with you today in this conversation, so would you please allow me to do that again? And it kind of was like, it would take him a bath like, oh, so you don't know everything kind of right.

[00:27:36] Dina: You know, idea. Right. Or you don't know how to do things perfect right. All the time because sometimes our kids get the idea that we are know-it-all, or, and we give them that idea. 'cause we sometimes try to direct them in every single way. But it was like, if he would say, I don't care. Sure. And I'd say, well, I, I'd like to start off by apologizing.

[00:27:58] Dina: Um, it [00:28:00] just gets things going in a much lovelier way. 

[00:28:04] Brenda: Yes. In it. Again, it requires that humility, and I think a lot of parents struggle with this because they feel very disrespected and it is hard to humble yourself and to be the bigger person in a situation where you feel like you've been and you have been disrespected.

[00:28:27] Brenda: Right. No doubt. I'm 

[00:28:27] Dina: discounting that. Yeah. Like to be respectful to a kid who has been nothing but awful to you. Who has not even treated you like a human being, but I kind of take it out of the person. How do I wanna project myself as a human being? I always wanna treat people with dignity, even when they're not nice enough, kind enough, big enough to treat me with dignity.

[00:28:55] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:28:56] Dina: I'm still gonna go in with dignity. I'm still [00:29:00] gonna do that. Yeah. It's hard, but it's a, it's like a human moral stance, right? 

[00:29:07] Brenda: Hey, I wanna pause for just a sec to talk about something that has been life changing for so many women who started right where you might be by listening to the show. If you're feeling the isolation, the exhaustion, like nobody gets what you're going through.

[00:29:21] Brenda: There is a place designed specifically for you. The stream is our private community for moms and female caregivers. Her parenting teens and young adults through substance use and mental health struggles. And when I say private, I mean completely confidential. It is not connected to Facebook or any other platform, or your business could become everyone's business.

[00:29:43] Brenda: What members love about this stream is that you can be as visible or as anonymous as you want. Some moms jump right into conversations and calls. Others like to read and learn quietly in the background. Both are perfect. It's not social media. It's genuine [00:30:00] community focused on learning growth and breaking through the isolation that might be keeping you from moving forward right now.

[00:30:07] Brenda: Whether your child is in active use in treatment or early recovery, you'll find practical strategies and tools that actually help motivate healthier choices. Because we know you wanna see positive change in your family. Check it out@hopestreamcommunity.org. We would love to welcome you into this village of support.

[00:30:27] Brenda: And understanding. Okay. Back to the show. 

[00:30:32] Dina: The other thing that does is it shows them how to be, and you may think, oh, they're so far removed from that. They're high, they're this, they're that, they are you, they're all of those things that you're saying. Having said that, at some point they're gonna think about that and they do, and they hear you and you've brought them upright.

[00:30:55] Dina: So those kind of things penetrate their heart. You know, Parker's nine [00:31:00] years sober this year and the things I've learned from him in the nine years of sobriety about what he did and didn't listen to when he was using blows my mind. He remembers things I said to him that I don't even remember. 

[00:31:15] Brenda: He was listening.

[00:31:16] Brenda: They, oh my gosh, they are listening. And more than listening, they are watching. They are watching how we respond. They're watching how we have self-control or don't have self-control. Yeah. All of those things and yeah, it, I think it, this also brings up for me, going back to behaviors make sense and that if they are being this way nasty and disrespectful and all of those things, there's a reason.

[00:31:46] Brenda: There's a reason they are, it might, and it doesn't make it right. No. 

[00:31:49] Dina: Right. It doesn't No. Their behavior. Right. It there absolutely is. And I think we need to be curious to find out what it is. 

[00:31:56] Brenda: Yes. Like when I'm being nasty to my husband and [00:32:00] whatever, irritable, there's always a reason. Always. And so that, that's just a good kind of, if, if you're stuck with this Yeah.

[00:32:10] Brenda: But they're being so disrespectful. If you really understand there is a reason underneath there, you might not know it now. You might not know it for a very long time, if ever, but humans only do things because it's working for them and there's a reason that they're doing it. So, um, what other boundaries would you say would be important to think about?

[00:32:34] Brenda: So we talked about like taking that pause, getting the space, not accepting. This, you know, kind of rude, disrespectful, emotionally unsafe behavior. Is there another boundary that you work with your coaching clients that you see as really important in this conversation? 

[00:32:54] Dina: Well, the conversation about name calling.

[00:32:56] Dina: That's a big one. Um, and then threatening [00:33:00] of course. The other thing is the space. Like I hear a lot of parents say, um, I have told my kid that. There's no substance that's allowed in their room. But what do I do about that? And when happens, I just kinda like, you know, thrown it away. Or I haven't said, but I don't say anything to them.

[00:33:25] Dina: 'cause I don't wanna make them angry. 

[00:33:26] Speaker 3: Right. And 

[00:33:27] Dina: I just, I'm like, okay, we've lost perspective. This is your home. Yes. You're, you're paying the mortgage and Yes. Until your kid's 18. It's oftentimes difficult to say you can't live here. But I do think it's okay to go in their room like and And that's controversial.

[00:33:51] Dina: 'cause I know a lot of people are like, it's their private space. Yes. As long they have earned that private space. As long as they abide by your rules. Yes. But when you've said no [00:34:00] marijuana in the house and you walk down the hallway and it's a wreaking of marijuana. You have every right to go into that space of your house that you own.

[00:34:10] Brenda: Yes. 

[00:34:11] Dina: And say to them, no, you, this is not acceptable. You're gonna clean up this room and here are the consequences of you not being able to respect, uh, the expectations of this house. Because I, I always tell parents to think about this. Would you in a lease? Have rules for someone you are renting a room to, you would, and if one of 'em would be no drugs or alcohol in your room, the same thing should be true for your child.

[00:34:42] Dina: Just because you have an emotional connection to them doesn't mean that they get to make your home feel like their home and not yours. Right. So I even with parents whose kids have been really resistant to that and have been under 18, I've said. [00:35:00] You could say to them, first offense I throw away anything I find second offense, I'm going to take your door off because the privacy that I would love to give you, you're not respecting for me.

[00:35:13] Dina: So to do that, yeah. And then you can think of a third, like you can't spend the night here if you come home high or something like that. So for 24 hours, they all have friends that they can go spend the night with. Right. But it's sometimes uncomfortable enough for them to not have their space. They're so used to and taking for granted that they come back and they're, they thought about, oh, I just can't do it inside the house.

[00:35:39] Dina: They didn't say I couldn't do it outside the house. Right. So it makes them think a little differently. I think making your space, your space is super important. 'cause I've seen so many parents who are leaving their own home. Because it's that uncomfortable for them. And I'd hate to say that. Oh 

[00:35:59] Brenda: yeah, [00:36:00] that is heartbreaking.

[00:36:01] Brenda: It's like you work your whole life, right? To have a home, whether you own it or rent it, it doesn't matter. Like you work and then you set up that space so that you, at the end of the day, with all the insanity that we deal with in this world, that you can come home and be in a safe, comfortable place. And that also, yes, that breaks my heart to hear that.

[00:36:24] Brenda: A parent would leave that it, it really does come back to not being afraid to parent, not being afraid to have the, you know, parental authority to say, this doesn't, this doesn't sit well with me. I am not willing to offer you a room where you can smoke marijuana in my house. Um, and, and it, and it is, I love what you just said.

[00:36:48] Brenda: It's not just you. I wouldn't offer that to anybody. Correct. I wouldn't offer it to a guest. And you're 

[00:36:54] Dina: here rent free. Right. You know what I mean? Like if you start putting perspective [00:37:00] into it, it's like, but they're like, but it's my kid. Correct. But you wouldn't allow anybody to do that. Correct. And so if that rule can be across the board, you have every right to say it to your kid and to adhere to it, um, it always blows my mind too when parents find things and they're afraid to confiscate 'em.

[00:37:21] Dina: I cannot tell you how many things I took away from Parker's room and threw away. Right. I mean, probably thousands of dollars, right? Worth of things. I mean, and I had a a box that I would put them in. I don't know why. Said I had a box that I would put them in thinking I'm gonna take it to the police station, right?

[00:37:40] Dina: I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. But I would keep that box and it just got bigger and bigger and bigger until I finally did hand it over to the police. No information whatsoever. And they were great. They took it and got rid of it. But I just think parents, that's part of that perspective problem. 

[00:37:59] Brenda: Yes, [00:38:00] totally.

[00:38:00] Brenda: And, and I know why you are hesitating to do it because number one, you might not know what the response will be and it could be pretty aggressive. They're gonna freak out for sure. They're not gonna be happy. So I think where, where the struggle comes is I'm gonna do like maybe things have been pretty calm in your house for the last couple weeks, and you're like, hallow, woo.

[00:38:32] Brenda: Like yes, they're going to school mostly they're going to their job, like things are trending in a pretty good way. Then you find the big bag of weed pills. Whatever it is, powder. And you're like, no, it was going so well. And I know when I take this, it is going to all erupt again. There's gonna be ugly [00:39:00] words, there's going to be drama, there's gonna be, and I just, I think for a lot of us, it's like my nervous system can't handle that.

[00:39:09] Brenda: I'm too exhausted, I'm too, like I just need some peace. And so we let it go. And I understand that. I totally me too, understand that it's exhausting. It is beyond exhausting. And so I think what I just wanna make sure and say is we hear you and we understand why you might make the choices that you make, which is why you've gotta get yourself surrounded by strong people.

[00:39:37] Brenda: Get in our community, get in Al-Anon, get in whatever you need to get in to give you. The stamina and the mental fortitude to say, well, we've had a great two weeks. This sucks. Here we go. Right? And so that you can, you can follow through. 

[00:39:58] Dina: And I think that's [00:40:00] such important perspective, Brenda, like, we had a great two weeks, let's put that.

[00:40:06] Dina: And I like keep a little thing like this. And here's a positive, here's a positive. Write down your positive. Yeah. Because I think it's too easy to allow the imbalance of the negatives to take over. Yeah. And say during those two weeks, he's gone to school, he's done this, he's done that, he's done this and that.

[00:40:28] Dina: You know what I mean? And there's, there's five wins. This is a dig lose. But at least I can have perspective that there's been win. 

[00:40:38] Speaker 3: Yes. 

[00:40:38] Dina: Along the way. So then maybe in the conversation it could be more of a measured conversation like, look, things have been going great and it's been a relief for me. It's probably been nice for you not to have me nag you.

[00:40:52] Dina: We have a pretty big hiccup right here, and that is that I found this bag of pills in your room, which is not okay in any way, [00:41:00] shape or form, and therefore blah, blah, blah, blah, blah is going to happen. Mm-hmm. You've given the positives. Yes. But you've kept perspective. You're not like, what the, oh yeah. I found these pills in your room and you know.

[00:41:14] Dina: Yes. I think, um, again, a measured response is important. And I would say the other really important thing to not make the abnormal normal is to talk to other parents, like you said. Hook stream's a great place to get perspective. 'cause a lot of the parents have been through this before, you've been through it.

[00:41:37] Dina: So they can offer a lot of help, but also get a coach. Yes. If you need a coach to set boundaries, uh, partnership is great. Get a coach even for just a couple of sessions. Yeah. Um, to set a boundary and see how it goes. Presenting the boundary and how you might need to change the boundary a little bit. But once you do one.

[00:41:59] Dina: You will feel [00:42:00] so empowered, like do one and follow through. You'll feel so empowered. It will become easier. 

[00:42:05] Brenda: Yes, it's so true that just that one little win of, and maybe it didn't go perfectly, but it went pretty well, and it does, it starts to build on that confidence and like, oh, I can do this. And they see that you can do it.

[00:42:22] Brenda: I will never forget when I, you know, I set a boundary of if you. Are high when you come home and disruptive and whatever, you're gonna need to leave and come back when you're sober. Mm-hmm. Now I know that's different. Like we had Beth Hillman on, she's a great coach a couple weeks ago, and she said the opposite.

[00:42:39] Brenda: She said, I told my son he could come home anytime as long. It didn't matter if what condition he was in. Right. So this, and I, I highlight that just to let you know. That it's different for every family. Absolutely. There is not one way to do this. I got to the point where it was so disruptive to [00:43:00] myself, but also to my younger kids that I couldn't have him 'cause he didn't just like slip in and then just pass out in bed.

[00:43:08] Brenda: Yeah. Like 

[00:43:09] Dina: quietly go to his room. 

[00:43:10] Brenda: No, it was like mayhem, you know Like the what? The TV commercial with the Mayhem guy? Yes. It was like that. Like complete mayhem coming in at two o'clock in morning. I think 

[00:43:19] Dina: it's Allstate. Yes. 

[00:43:20] Brenda: Yes. So the first time I had to hold that boundary when he came home with a girl no less, who was also very, very under the influence.

[00:43:31] Brenda: Lovely. And I went down the stairs and they were crawling into his bed at the ripe old age of 16. And I mean Taco Bell, like one slap in the face. Then he and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, this is not gonna work out. Enzo. You know the rule, you're not allowed to be here. If you're in this condition, well, you know you're gonna put a girl out on the street.

[00:43:59] Brenda: And you [00:44:00] know, I mean, he played all the games with my mind and I said, you're right. I do not wanna put this girl out on the street. Honey, give me your mom's phone number. I will call her. I love that. And she can come pick you up or Yeah, I will drop you off at your house, Enzo. You need to leave. And I will never forget seeing them walk down our sidewalk at three o'clock in the morning and I thought, what the hell?

[00:44:30] Brenda: Like what kind of mom does this? To her kid who she knows is intoxicated, is with this girl who is extremely vulnerable right now. 'cause she refused to give me her mom's phone number. I can't imagine why. Yes. And she refused to let me drop her off at her house. So I said, okay, this is, this is my boundary.

[00:44:52] Brenda: This is what I need to do for my sanity, for my younger kids. Like, and it was [00:45:00] torture and I did not have a coach. I did not have. Hope, dream. I didn't have anything and I thought, I really did think, like, I think I'm gonna die of a broken heart right now. Right? Because it's, I hear you. Painful, but I'll tell you what I think I only did that one other time because he knew I was gonna, I was serious.

[00:45:22] Brenda: I was not messing around. And, and it really made an impact. 

[00:45:28] Dina: It, I think it does make a tremendous impact, but. While you're doing it, and I'm glad you said that and told that story. 'cause while you're doing it, it's, it was the most painful thing. Um, because I had, Parker shockingly still was going to school 'cause he was a senior and he was still, I didn't know that he was though.

[00:45:51] Dina: When I kicked him out. Um, I called the school and his attendance record had been perfect. Wow. We was still going to school, [00:46:00] but. A counselor called me and said, oh, I had my session with Parker today, and he tells me he's sleeping on the stairs at San Jose State. Can you tell me about that? 

[00:46:13] Brenda: Oh, wow. 

[00:46:14] Dina: I, and I was part of the school system, right.

[00:46:17] Dina: So they knew me. Yeah. Talk about feeling like a piece of poop. 

[00:46:21] Brenda: Yeah. 

[00:46:22] Dina: And like the worst mother ever. So that was an opportunity for me to stay. Well, you know, he's been in trouble at school oftentimes, and I come to his rescue oftentimes, and that's not working. Um, and I was feeling that we were in danger, so he can't stay here.

[00:46:47] Dina: She understood it was fine, but three months later, I had a counselor call me and say, you must let him keep looking horrible. And, and I did, but he had. Changed quite a bit in that three months. [00:47:00] Yes. Because they take for granted what they have at. 

[00:47:05] Brenda: Yeah. 

[00:47:06] Dina: But it wasn't easy. 

[00:47:07] Brenda: Oh my gosh. It's, it is not for the faint of heart.

[00:47:10] Brenda: And I sometimes think, you know, we were chosen, we talk in the community a lot about being SEAL team parents. Right. And I think not everybody can be a SEAL team member in the military. Takes an extraordinary person to, to do that. And I really believe it's the same for us. I think we were chosen to be their parents because A, we can do it.

[00:47:37] Brenda: We don't always think we can do it, but we can do it. And the the gift it gives us in the end of all the things that we learn and how much we grow as a person, I just think how much I would've missed out on if I had never been through this experience and. So we, it's a rough journey, 

[00:47:56] Dina: but it, it works. All the things you [00:48:00] learn, you use in every aspect of your life, because like I said, Parker's been sober for just about nine years now.

[00:48:07] Dina: I'm using those skills every single day with everybody in my life. Me 

[00:48:12] Brenda: too. 

[00:48:12] Dina: Boundaries setting, good communication, taking a pause, green lights, red lights. I mean, there are, those are all good skill. Totally. But don't give up your home. Don't give up your home. 

[00:48:26] Brenda: Don't give up your home. Don't give up your emotional or your physical safety.

[00:48:30] Brenda: There are ways, and I know it can seem impossible, somebody might be listening to this and going, yeah, but, and they're thinking their cases different and unique and, and I'm not saying this to be mean, but it's not. W literally, between Dina and all the coaches and facilitators and myself and Kathy, we have literally.

[00:48:51] Brenda: I think work through pretty much every, every situation that is out there, including things like grandkids, you know, [00:49:00] that are involved. When I mean, you name it, we've seen it. So there is a way, it is probably gonna be very uncomfortable. It's probably gonna be very painful. And that's why you get somebody to work through it with you.

[00:49:14] Brenda: Right? 

[00:49:15] Dina: Right. And I think it's incremental. I don't think you go from not. Setting boundaries to having these big boundaries that are so hard that you can't do 'em. You start with incremental boundaries and you practice with the little things first, so that as you get empowered, you can stick to the consequences that you set forth in the bigger ones.

[00:49:40] Brenda: Yeah, that's a really good point. Thanks for saying that. 'cause that is true. I remember I started with um, like. My son was supposed to empty the dishwasher before he went anywhere. So silly, right? Like, it's just silly. And he would never do it. And I would just like, okay, well it's just the dishwasher. It's not that big of a deal.

[00:49:58] Brenda: But then I realized it was a big deal [00:50:00] because that was his responsibility. And so, you're right, like I then I, I just worked on that. Like, I'm just gonna work on holding my boundary about, yeah, you can go out as soon as the dishwasher's emptied, no problem. Right? Go, you know, not easy, so, no. 

[00:50:17] Dina: But I think that's important to not feel, 'cause a lot of parents feel like when they can't set a big boundary that, oh, they're failing, but let's start small and then move up to those bigger boundaries.

[00:50:29] Dina: You've been living with it this long, so if you start small, you're not, you're still in a better position. 

[00:50:36] Brenda: Correct? Yes. Any, any little movement. Toward that is better. But yeah, we just, we really wanted to talk about this because we do see so many people just living in this situation that is not, quote unquote normal or healthy within the kind of, you know, range of normal.

[00:50:55] Brenda: And it's so easy to get there. I got there, I was there. So, [00:51:00] so yeah. And Dina's raising her hand, if you're not watching like. It's, it's very common, and so don't feel bad like you failed or like you, you know, oh my gosh. Just know that you can start to take those little steps back towards safety, and they may have to be big steps depending on your situation, right.

[00:51:18] Brenda: It may be like with us, we were not so much afraid for our safety, but for our son's safety, and we had to make a very big move. To get him to a place of safety and you may have to do something similar to get yourself in that place. So, well, we will put a link in the show notes to how you can get ahold of Dina.

[00:51:38] Brenda: She does coaching for us in the community, but she's also available to do coaching, um, with you if you're listening. And there's also, we always like to. Share the partnership to End Addiction, it's drug free.org. They have coaches that you can get connected with. They also have this really awesome, um, text, hope and Help by [00:52:00] text, I think is what it's called.

[00:52:01] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:01] Brenda: And very cool. It's very cool. And you enter, like, you just put in some basic information in the text that you get are very timely and they're also relevant to your situation. So that's a good way. And those all their services are free. So if you're, and I think you have to be in North America, I wanna say, I know we have listeners from all over, but if you're in North America and you need some support, they also have a helpline that you can call.

[00:52:25] Brenda: Like let's say you just somebody to like walk through some stuff with you, make an appointment, talk to the helpline. They're just an absolutely priceless resource, most underrated resource ever. I think people just don't know. So drug free.org. Then obviously, um, for moms stream. Yeah, for moms, you can join us in the stream.

[00:52:47] Brenda: Community, moms and female caregivers. We have sisters, we have grandmothers. It's not just moms. So if you're feeling like, man, I really wanna help somebody and you're not their mom, [00:53:00] that's totally fine. So, well, 

[00:53:02] Dina: thank you. 

[00:53:03] Brenda: Um, thanks Brenda. Before I let you go, if you could only give a mom one or a dad one.

[00:53:10] Brenda: Skill, mindset, tool, strategy, whatever you wanna call it. Whether a kiddo is struggling, what, what one thing would you give them?

[00:53:24] Brenda: Find 

[00:53:25] Dina: a place or a space to get perspective. Hmm. Because when you're in it, perspective is hard to come by. It's, it drowns you. And so. If you can either walk away for five minute, it's better the longer it is. Um, so of course like if you could go on a women's retreat, that would be fantastic, but that's not always possible.

[00:53:56] Dina: But if you could walk away for five minutes and break some [00:54:00] error, it will give you a train bit of perspective that might prevent you from. Getting into a point where you've lost all perspective. 

[00:54:12] Brenda: Yeah. 

[00:54:12] Dina: And if you could do that daily, it has to do with your mindset and it has to do with not losing perspective.

[00:54:21] Dina: And a lot of the parents I coach, just need somebody that will offer a different perspective because they're in it so deep they're drowning. 

[00:54:32] Speaker 3: Mm. 

[00:54:33] Dina: Time and space. Love it. Time and space. Yeah. Thank 

[00:54:37] Brenda: you. Thanks, Brando. Always a pleasure. A pleasure to 

[00:54:41] Dina: chat with you. It's 

[00:54:42] Brenda: always so great and this will be a gold mine for anybody listening, so we appreciate your time and we'll do it again soon.

[00:54:51] Brenda: Sounds good. If you wanna hear the other two episodes that Dana has done with me, check out episode 1 38 where Deanna talks all [00:55:00] about creating conditions for change when you have a child who is struggling. Episode 1 73 where we have a very special and relevant story, the Chinese farmer and what that story teaches us about parenting kids who are misusing substances.

[00:55:18] Brenda: So check those out. Episode 1 38 and 1 73 for even more of Dina. Okay, my friend. If you want the transcript or the show notes and resources from this episode, just go to our website, hope Stream community.org, and click podcast. That'll take you to all things podcast related. We even have a start here playlist that we created, so if you're new here, be sure to check that out.

[00:55:46] Brenda: Also, if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance use. We have got a free ebook for you. It's called Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide for Parents of Teens and Young Adults [00:56:00] Misusing Drugs and Alcohol. It'll introduce you to ways that you can build connection and relationship with your child versus distancing and letting them hit rock bottom.

[00:56:11] Brenda: It is a game changer and it's totally free. Just go to Hope Stream community.org/worried to download that. You are amazing my friend. You are such an elite level parent. It is an honor to be here with you and please know you're not doing this alone. You've got this tribe and you will be okay sending all my love and light and I will meet you right back here next week.