After Treatment: What the First 90 Days Really Look Like, with Beth Hillman

When Beth Hillman's son came home from wilderness treatment, the first crisis didn’t come from him. It came from her. Standing in the driveway, anxious and spiraling, she watched her teenage son look at her calmly and say, "Mom, look at me. I'm gonna be okay." Her first thought was not relief. It was, oh! I’m in big trouble.

Her son had come home with more access to his thinking brain than she had. He also came home to a mother who had not yet done her own work and was carrying expectations she could not even name. When he finally told her, "Mom, your expectations of how this is gonna go are going to wreck me," Beth had to get honest about what she was really asking of him.

Today Beth is a double certified life and parent coach, host of the Parenting Post-Wilderness podcast, and a familiar voice in our community, where she leads sessions and groups for parents in the fragile season after treatment.

In this conversation, we get real about the first 90 days after a child comes home, from both sides. Why kids may agree to everything just to get home, why pushback on a home plan might be the best sign you can get, and what your child is actually walking back into when they return to the house where the holes in the doors are. Beth names the piece most home plans are missing, and I think it will change how you prepare.

If your child is coming home from treatment soon, or is already home and wobbling, this episode was made for you.

YOU’LL LEARN:

• The driveway moment that convinced Beth she was the one in trouble
• Why kids check every box to get home, and why that is not manipulation
• What her son said about her expectations that stopped Beth cold
• The green flag most parents mistake for defiance
• The almost too simple practice Beth reached for when her brain went offline

EPISODE RESOURCES:

• Beth’s website - www.bethhillmancoaching.com
• Beth’s podcast, Parenting Post Wilderness
• Beth on Hopestream podcast episode 279
• Information on PAWS (post-acute withdrawal syndrome)

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
Find us on Instagram here
Watch the podcast on YouTube here
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

Hopestream Community is a registered 501(c)3 nonprofit organization and an Amazon Associate. We may make a small commission if you purchase from our links.

Transcript

After Treatment: What the First 90 Days Really Look Like, with Beth Hillman

[00:00:00] Hey, friend.  Hello there. How fun is this? So good to see you. I know. We get an excuse to chat. It's awesome. I  know. But we're, it's being recorded, so we have to edit ourselves a little bit.  Yeah, of course. Oh, well, I love being in your world and having you as a friend and a fellow podcaster. Yeah. Thank you. Me too. I'm so glad to be here with you. I'm so glad to be in the same company as you, if you will. It's great. I know. It's cool. Well, we were somewhere together, and we were talking about how we should do another episode, a little collab as the kids say. As the kids say. I think that's the cool term. But we have so much... I mean, we could literally have a whole, I don't know, series of podcasts between our experience with our kids, our experience as moms, as women, just in general. Yeah, right? Like, Who, who wants an 

[00:01:00] entire week of just us? I know. We'll, we'll put up a vote somewhere. Yeah. But I don't know. I guess one fun thing would be, like, if we made it through to where we are- Mm ... I feel like anybody can because I- Oh, right ... I don't even know what your experience is. That would be a good question. I did not really have any of these tools until very late in the game. A hun- 100. Okay. So you weren't, like- Percent reading all the books and doing all the things and learning all of this along the way while your son was struggling? Well, I did have this sense of foreboding. Yes. A, a high, a high sense of foreboding that I, was like... I felt like I was missing education and skills. I had that. I didn't really know what I was looking for. Right. And I kept thinking, "Well, I don't have eight years to be a psychologist, 

[00:02:00] so-" Nope ... "What am I gonna do?" Like, I knew that- Right ... my son didn't, you know, obviously, have eight years to just sit and wait for me to be educated. But, I do remember there was a time, there was a moment after he had gotten home from wilderness, and we were in my driveway, and it was the first time- Let's see.

I think he was gonna drive somewhere by himself for a minute, and I was a wreck. A wreck. And there was a bit of a miscommunication too, and so I was anxious. I was upset. Definitely, like, in crisis mode in my brain. And my son said, "Mom, look at me. I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna go and do what you've asked me to do," like to the grocery store or something, "and then I'm gonna come right back, and we can do this."

I was like, "Oh, no." Like, that was the first thing I thought was- That's amazing. Yeah. I thought, "I am in big trouble," because I could tell that my son had more, 

[00:03:00] access to his thinking brain than I did. Right. And he was actually calming me, and I thought, "Well, that's not how it's supposed to work. I'm in trouble."Mm. So that's a, kind of an interesting, take on that. I was impressed by him, I was. And that was some of the, wilderness runoff. Yes. I think I just coined that phrase, or maybe it was- 

I love that phrase. I love that. So it was a bit, 'cause it was pretty quick, and I... Now I'm like, "Why would I ever have let him drive by himself?"

But something was going on. Yeah. And he actually definitely took, the high road, if you will and I remember thinking "Uh-oh, this isn't how it's supposed to be. I'm the parent. I need to be the one who's calm," and I just did not know how. So that's one of those little many moments that, kind of add in to a person making a move to change.

Right. Right. When your kid knows more than you do about emotional regulation, it's like, "Hmm." Yeah. "Interesting." Yeah. Yeah, that was a big ol'... That was a doozy. Yeah. So I, but I didn't really 

[00:04:00] start working until... and I'm not sure of how this, maybe this does happen to every parent, but I didn't really start doing the work because the work is hard, and systems- Yeah don't wanna put in the work, you know? They're like, "Well, if I could just get away controlling my kiddo or manipulating them, then, of course, I won't do the work." So I really, I hate, hate this term, but... In fact, I'm not even gonna say the term. I'm not gonna say rock bottom. I'm not. Okay. Okay. That's, that's the word we're not saying. That's the word we're not saying. But I did hit a point where I was like, "There is there is nothing else to do but actually do the work. Like, Mm-hmm ... I'm gonna have to crawl out of this hole, and I'm gonna have to figure it out," so. Yeah. 

But it was definitely, you know, a series of events, so. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's why I'm always impressed by folks that listen to the podcasts, you know- Yeah ... join your coaching sessions, join Hopestream. Like, those are the ones that I'm so in awe of because I'm like, "You are on it much earlier than I ever 

[00:05:00] was." Right. And, you know, anyway, I think it's really admirable when I see parents really trying- Yeah listening, doing the things. Somebody this morning just posted in our community. Like, she had just... She's a brand-new member, and she's like, "In the last week, I've really been working on not reacting and just staying calm when my son gets really upset and crazy," and she goes, "The drama in our home has dialed down dramatically."Oh, gosh. And I think, "

Oh, my gosh," right? Like, how amazing. I never had that 'cause Enzo just struggled and struggled and then, you know, overdosed so wasn't... Like, I didn't... He, survived despite me is what I always say, but anyway. Well, I,

also totally, I just am blown away by how many parents, mothers really are diving in sooner than, you know, another. But there's no, and there's no better time. It's like the no, there's no time like the present, you know? 

[00:06:00] Yes. I do really believe that don't shame yourself, don't worry about it, just dig in and start doing your work, you know? So. 

Yeah, exactly and the good news is you don't have to become a psychologist or a psychiat- No like, there are so many things that you can learn that don't require any kind of a degree. And like that mom, right? All she did is say, "This week, I am going to stay calm." Like, that's doable, I feel like for most parents. Yeah. You know? Baby steps. Find a way. So- Find a way ... it's really cool. Really cool. Yeah.

Well, we were talking, and one of the things that we both have a lot of conversations about is when your kid comes home from treatment Oof. Look at us both. We said the same thing. We both- Exactly the same thing. Well- That was not planned. That was not planned. If you're watching the video, you saw that, that that was not planned.

Yeah. That was a doozy. It is... 

[00:07:00] It's so hard and it's hard to explain. I'll, I'm gonna say that, too, right? Yeah. It's hard, and it's hard to explain.  Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I clearly remember when, they were saying that he was even ready to leave wilderness, and he wasn't even coming home.

He was going to residential treatment, and I was like, "Oh, no. Can't you just keep him there forever?" Like, till he's 29? I don't know. It's just- Yeah ... it's that weird tension of I really want them home, because you miss them even though they were causing havoc in your life. Right. You miss them. It's the weirdest thing, and at the same time, you don't want them home because you know where things could go.

You're hoping that they- Hmm ... don't go there. So it's just this jumble of emotions. I agree. It's like layer, and layers upon layers, right? The relief that you actually get a minute to yourself, possibly. Yes. You know? Like, if they're at wilderness or residential or whatever, it's like, "Oh, I can actually, pay attention to the other 

[00:08:00] siblings," perhaps, or make a dinner- Sleep or sleep. Right. You know, or actually pay a bill on time, or whatever happened, right? Whatever's happening. And I think, but I think there really is so, like you said, layers and, or, just concern and worry, and the uncertainty of the unknown is so huge. And it just- Yeah ... it's very, it's a very difficult time.

Wow. Very difficult. It is, and I think it doesn't get acknowledged enough because- Hmm ... so much emphasis gets placed on the pre-treatment, right? Of when they're struggling and they're doing all these crazy things- Hmm ... and they're not going to school and they're doing illegal thi- there's a lot of in my world at least, there's a lot of focus there because that's where a lot of our parents are in our community.

And then it's like, "Oh, yay. They get into treatment," and then maybe we don't talk about enough. Yeah. I think you have to start doing, like, coming home planning the day they go 

[00:09:00] in, or maybe three days after. Like, take a rest. Get some sleep. Yeah. Eat some food. That's Say hi to your spouse. And then, and then start planning for them to come home because it's a lot, and it's a phase that I just, I don't know if it gets enough attention, so I'm super glad to talk about it with you Yeah.

I love that. I appreciate that too a lot. And oh gosh, something just came into my head and then left. I'm trying to think if I can get it back. But, I really appreciate that. You know, just spending some, just a minute of attention on that little, that moment. And it's almost like you really, you just start preparing as soon as you can, I guess.

Yeah. But it is inter- I will say this, there is a difference between gaining some skills and practicing cognitively when they're not home. Yes and I think that is very essential and can make a huge difference. But there does come a 

[00:10:00] time where the cognitive practice is only gonna get you so far. Right. And then, right, and then when they come home or when they're in your physical space for an ongoing time, wow and we're gonna get into that, right? It- it's just a whole nother- Right ... level of effort. So. Yes. Yeah. 

Yeah. Well, and so we thought we would approach this from two angles. One being what kids go through, and we are, trust us, we are, we've never been through this ourselves.

At least I haven't. I don't think you have. Right. So we're only giving this perspective through the lens of what we saw our kids go through and what we've talked about with them, and we both have the beautiful hindsight of being able to talk to our kids now. Then we thought we would talk about what the parent experiences in those first 90-ish days after they come home from treatment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. What, 

Go ahead. No, go ahead. I was gonna say, my point of view, I guess, or my, yeah, or definitely from 

[00:11:00] my son, from my, I guess, attunement to him, and then I'm sure both of us just what we witness with other families, right? Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm. What are some of the first things that come to mind for you that a kid might be experiencing when they come home from treatment?

And let's say it's wilderness or residential, but they've been away for, let's call it more than 60 days. Should we sort of go with that- Sure ... assumption? Yeah. 'Cause there's a million- Well, yeah ... scenarios, so There 

are. There are. Yeah. Yeah. One of the first things that comes to mind, honestly, that I run into quite a bit when I'm helping a family or parents do, like, a home plan, which is a whole nother topic Yeah But a lot of some programs just handle that a little bit differently than others. Mm-hmm. And so whatever is happening in the program, typically a therapist, the 

[00:12:00] kid's therapist would maybe work on their kind of home plan with the therapist, and not even with you. Right. And so that's where maybe I would come in and say like, "Hey, parents, let's really come up a home plan for the parents."

Yes. And so what I yeah, right? Yeah. Because what I see happening is that the therapist will work on a plan with the kid, and it's just more, it's more kid-focused, which it should be, right? Kind of like, "Hey, kid, how do you..." You know, some kids wanna be sober, some kids don't. Right. It's just the truth of it.

Yep, yep. Some kids are maybe going to college, some kids are, they don't have any graduate from high school. Like, there's just this huge array of possibilities. And so, but what I do see is that the kids- They wanna go home so bad. Yeah. And what it's very hard to do is really enjoy where you're at.

And so what I see often is these kids are clamoring to get home. I get it, right? They're trying to check off all the boxes 

[00:13:00] that the program has set. Yeah. They're also trying to check off the boxes the parents have set, and now they're checking off the boxes possibly a little bit that the therapists have set.

I know the therapists don't mean to do that- Right ... and many of them are trying not to do that, but- Yeah ... it's just this thing that happens over and over and over and over no matter how wonderful, and there's so many great therapists around. Right. The kid will just say yes. It's just the situation they're put in.

They'll just agree to anything, basically. Now, that doesn't happen every time. Sometimes the kids push back, and I love it when the kids push back because that says to me, "Oh, one, you've actually read the idea or the home plan or the expectations-" Yeah ... "or whatever we're doing, and you've actually thought about it, and you're being truthful."

Yes. So it's interesting 'cause ob- of course, parents don't love pushback, but I see that as a really, like, a green flag of, "Whoa, we have someone who's actually willing to be honest here and who knows I'm not gonna do that, so I'm not gonna agree to it." 

Right. But most of the kids will say, "Oh, yeah," 

[00:14:00] and here's the thing. They're not being manipulative. They just wanna get home. So they're like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I'll clean my room every day, sure. Uh, yeah, sign me up for that class in high school, of course. Oh, yeah, I would never hang out with so-and-so again, you bet." Right. And they just like check, check, check. And so it's a very, it's just a really tough situation.

A- and I don't think anybody means to set up the family. Nobody means to do that. No. But I do feel like families are getting set up in the way that, even from that very beginning is they're just, the kids are not, the kids come home. They're not gonna do it- Yeah ... for very long anyway.

That's what I see, and I've been doing this a while. So I'm just gonna say that's one of the things that comes to mind is, and it's not like then you don't, you don't make a plan, because of course you have to make a plan. Like hello. Yeah. You have to make a plan. 

Yeah. But the way you make a plan, and we're, I don't, I doubt we're gonna get into the weeds too much, but is really, really important. So 

[00:15:00] I'm gonna- Yes ... I will say that. I 1000% agree that kids do wanna get home, and that makes sense because who wants to be in a treatment program when you're in high school? Like, first of all, the stigma of that, the being away from your friends. Mm. The, you know, you're in this tight container where other people are telling you when you're doing things and how you're doing them and why, da da da da da. Yeah. 

So I- Yeah ... I agree with that, and I think one of the things that, I've heard in talking with lots of kids coming home from treatment is that there is most likely going to be some sort of a blip in that first 90 days. And by a blip, I mean it could be a speed bump. It could be a blip. It- It could be anything tire matter. A tire blow. Yeah, a tire blowout and so whether that is 

[00:16:00] just, "Oh, gosh, they're hanging out with the wrong friends," all the way to a return to use, it could be any of those things. But that is more common than uncommon, and I don't necessarily think it's a cause for- Yeah ... "Oh, off, back off to treatment we go."

Right. I would expect it. Yes. I try to help parents, encourage the parents, "Expect something." Yes. And it's so funny, 'cause they're, like, waiting for the shoe to drop. I'm like, "Uh-huh. It's gonna." Yeah. "So I get why you're feeling that way, and yes, there's no reason why you shouldn't feel that way." Like, I never talk them out of that shoe drop feeling- Yeah

because it's a real thing. So I'm like, "Of course the shoe's gonna drop. I just don't know how, and I don't know when." I've seen, I've seen reuse happen in a 48-hour period of time. Oh, for sure. Easily. Easily. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, the, what is more unique, of course, is a kiddo doing 

[00:17:00] well and continuing to doing well. I'm like, "Oh, no," because typically when that happens, like, and we sometimes call it the honeymoon phase. Yeah. Is it... And that's what's interesting. That's kinda what happened to me because we moved, because we didn't let my son around anything, no phone. Like, he was literally physically cut off 'cause we moved. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so he stayed clean for five months. Wow. Five months. That is unheard of. Yeah, that's pretty rare. 

It's very rare, but we had such a lockdown on this kid. Like I said, it was like a physical barrier. Yeah. It's not like I was, you know, chaining myself to him or anything, but the physical barrier was a big deal.

Yeah. But then when he, you know, it was definitely more than a blip, but when he blipped again, I had set myself up for- Mm ... way too high of expectations. That's what happens when a kid doesn't blip, doesn't blip, doesn't blip. The parents are like, "We're good." Yeah. It 

[00:18:00] worked. They're fixed. It worked. Yeah. That's exactly what I thought and felt. And so it, that's an extreme example that, that I- was my experience but typically, typically they're kind of messing up, eh, within a few weeks. 

Yeah. And that doesn't mean that it's gonna be forever, right? Right. It could be that they are testing the waters and realizing, like, "Okay, I went back and I got high with my friends, and you know what? It wasn't that great." Like, "Eh." 

Right. Right. It, so it- Well, now the parents are showing up with more boundaries and more calm- Mm-hmm and then of course that makes a world of difference, too, so. 

Totally. So I, we always encourage curiosity when that happens. "Huh. You know, you were, you weren't using for X number of months or days or weeks or whatever, and then you did. Like, tell me what was different about this time." Oh. Right? Just- If I had only done that. Oof. I know. I know. Hindsight is so 

[00:19:00] beautiful. The other thing that I have heard from kids that are home from treatment is that they tend to have skills that a lot of their friends don't have. Yeah. They learn things in wilderness, or they learn things in a residential setting about emotional regulation. You know, 'cause they're in groups several times a day- Yeah ... talking about their feelings and learning how to express and how to use I statements and how do, da da da da. Yeah. And then they get back into maybe a typical high school setting or college, and their friends don't have the slightest freaking clue what an I statement is.

They've never sat around a campfire and had to cook their own food. So the kids can tend to be much more advanced in their ability to self-regulate, to communicate, to really feel their feelings and express their feelings. And if they don't have any friends that are in that same pool of advanced 

[00:20:00] skills- Yep they can s- easily just sort of revert back to old ways- Yeah, to just fit in ... because they don't have any... Yeah, to just fit in. Yeah. And so- I, I say that because sometimes we see that reverting happening and we think that they didn't learn anything while they were gone. Yeah. And it actually could be the exact opposite.

They learned so much that they are now, they're outpacing their peers. But the- Yeah ... in high school especially, and in college, you have to have peers. You have to have friends. It's sort of a lifeline. And this is what my son did, is he was like, "Well, I gotta have some friends. The good ones aren't interested in me anymore 'cause I'm the bad kid."

Right. "So I'm gonna default to these guys." Yeah. And they weren't... You know what I mean? Do you see that as well? I do know.  I see this so often. I think the social, I guess I'll call it the social aspect of the kids coming home from treatment, 

[00:21:00] is so much, much harder than a parent sees. Yes. Hands down. And so I'm gonna really invite and encourage the parents who listen to really just even for a moment step inside their shoes if you can, right?

I know many parents didn't ex- aren't experiencing what, like, our kiddos, you know, are experiencing. Yeah. I get that. But just thinking about, there's all this peer support at treatment. You've got kids of your own age, kids that are doing the same thing as you. It's like nobody's the bad guy anybody m- anymore.

Yes. Right? And so it's, it is- I see this so much, especially in, more of the, under 18 programs. There's so much ... and it's not like everybody gets along, but there is a sense of camaraderie, a sense of brotherhood in the, all of the boys programs- Yes ... which I work a lot with and it's so interesting because the parents are hearing their kids 

[00:22:00] complain about the kids in treatment. "Well, my therapist doesn't understand me," and the, "My roommate's a pig," and they just complain all the time. Mm-hmm. And so it's very, very hard for the parents to even have an idea that the kids are actually loving, partly, what is happening for them. Yeah. But they would never say it. And so it's just so hard for the parents to even, like, step in their shoes because the parents are hearing, "I hate it, I hate it, I hate it."

Right. And then the therapists and the people who are working the programs are, they're laughing, they're having fun. Yeah, they're doing their work, but a lot of times they're having a grand time. And then the programs, I mean, they're doing their work, but you know what I mean. They're doing- Yes

okay and they're having fun. They're playing video games or whatever they're doing, of course, with all the work. But the parents just don't see it, so they come home and the kids are like, "Bring me home, bring me home, bring me home." And the parents are like, "Well, I have you home. Aren't you glad?" Right. Right? The parents are like, "Well, you should be 

[00:23:00] grateful and gracious and happy." And I, it's like, it's, and it's no fault of the parents and it's no fault of the kids. It's just what's, everybody's being set up slightly- Yes ... often- Yes ... so much across the board. And I'm sitting there trying, you know, as I coach parents, and I'm just like, "I know they're gonna have these.

I know, I just know that they're gonna do it." And no amount of me convincing the parents their kid actually had a decent time is gonna go anywhere. Exactly. But I'm telling you that's what happened, and now you're wondering ... So that's what's so interesting is they're like, the parents have this idea that the kids should be so happy to be home, and then the kids think that, too.

And then they get home, and guess what they find? They find they're alone. They find they don't belong anywhere. They find that they are way more emotionally, like you're say- emotionally more mature than anyone on the block.  Yep.  They, you know, and then it's like the stigma that you mentioned. You know, they were touted as possibly the bad kid in many of their friends' homes, possibly. Yeah. I 

[00:24:00] mean, it is like, it really is a mess. It's a mess. Yeah. And it's not like we can escape it, but I think talking about it is so helpful. So helpful. And so just, I'm so, just what you're saying, it's like they can't be They're not just gonna sit there and do nothing. They, typically. Well, okay, plenty of them do sit there and do nothing, but many of them go back to their old friends because- Right literally there's no one else. 

Exactly and also I think there is a tendency for parents to think, "Okay, well, she's been home for two weeks. Why doesn't she have a job yet?" Like, "She's not out looking for a job," or, you know, "My kid's been sober for three months. Like, I don't understand why they're not enrolling in community college." And I get it because I was also there. Yeah. And what I know now about the brain in particular, 

[00:25:00] this has nothing to do with your kid as a human, like- Right ... soul. The brain actually needs so much time to repair, especially if we're talking under 25, 26. The impact of those substances is significant. Like, that's- Yeah

an understatement. So by three months, they still probably have some of those chemicals in their body. They're not back to set point zero. Like, they are still- Right ... being dragged down and you may not see it on the outside, and there's a whole thing called PAWS, post-acute withdrawal symptoms, and I would encourage everybody to learn about those.

We can put a link in the show notes. But the expectations of- Yeah ... time, like, "Well, they've been home for X amount of time, and they're not doing anything." Now, if that's six months, okay, there's probably needs to be some expectations set into place. But if they've been home a couple of weeks or 

[00:26:00] even a month, and you're not seeing this, like, energy and enthusiasm and, you know, drive and all of that, that is fairly normal. Yeah, and it's so hard because there is a bit... I've heard other people, other parent coaches talk about, there's this momentum that's also sometimes available closer to when they've just gotten home that the- Mm-hmm ... parents I think many times are trying to tap into.  Yes.  And so that's a part of it.

I mean, I think everything we're saying basically has a paradox, but - Yeah ... it's just 'cause humans are paradoxical, but- Yes. But I love what you're saying because it also depends on how long they've been in treatment. Yes. Right? Like, if we're only talking 30 to 60 short-term stuff, 1,000%. Yes. 1,000%. Yeah and if they've been... I do a lot of transitioning home when the kids have been away a bit longer, maybe, like, a year. And so there's so many oth- but the brain definitely plays a part 

[00:27:00] and there's a grieving. Yeah. I think also that's missed, that the kids grieve- The homeostasis they were just in. Right. They didn't have to, I mean, some pro- of course you can get drugs in programs.

Like, we've all heard of, like, you know, Yeah ... it's everywhere and that they can figure it out. Of course everyone tries to be on top of it as they can and in they're, of course. But there is a bit of a safety. There's, definitely a safety for being in a program that the kids don't feel at home.

Yeah. They don't have to worry about it. So, yeah. They don't... Yeah, they're, it is a bit of a, you know, we talk about the bubble a lot, and now they're in a different bubble. Hopefully parents have like, worked with someone like you and they've set up some agreements about what they expect to see. But all of a sudden, that protective bubble has been removed and they are back exposed to all the things that were there before, and now they don't have that buffer of the substance that was sort of helping them navigate 

[00:28:00] what is a really tricky and painful world for, it seems like, you know, our kids tend to be highly sensitive, all of those things. So it's just a whole lot, and I think we would both encourage parents to, like you said, try to put yourself in their shoes, know that they are potentially really trying and working Yeah ... really hard to- Right ... find their way in a new environment. And if there's a blip, be curious about the blip. Right. It does not mean that they need to just, like, immediately U-turn back to treatment.

So there's that. But I- Yeah ... you know, I think the alignment on expectations is so important, 'cause that's what this all boils down to. Right. Is just, we have these expectations as parents. You have, maybe the kids have expectations, or maybe they don't even have expectations. They don't even know what's going on. Yeah. Can we comment about that for a minute? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:29:00] I think there's actually a lot. I think, of course not everyone, but many of the, and we're calling them kids, but kids are young adults, right? Yes, yes. Many of them, I think, do have high expectations of themselves. Mm. And maybe even- Yeah kind of over-expecting themselves, 'cause in treatment they're like, "Oh, I can stay away from it, and I've been great, and I get up at 6:00 AM, and I go work out." And they- Right ... they have this routine. But it is- It's an enormous ask for even an adult to have a routine at a certain environment and then pick up that routine and transport it over and plop it in a whole new environment.

Our physical environment is- Yes ... it's like triggering both in good and in bad ways, right? We, our brain gets used to our environment and so it actually... have you ever like traveled, right? And it's like all of a sudden you're stubbing your toe or you pinched your fingers in the door? Yes. And it's 

[00:30:00] like, I never pinch my fingers- Right.at home. But that's because- Yes ... I know where the doors and the pinches are. Yes, yes. And so when... And of course they grew up in, possibly grew up in the home, but it's... I had a therapist once say, in fact it was my son's therapist, he said, "It is practically impossible- To expect your kid to move like everything that they learned in treatment and just plop it over into the home.

Right. Because in the home is where he, they took drugs, and where they had a freak-out, and where they possibly punched doors or people. It's where they made their mistakes. And so they go back home and they're reminded of all the things that they did bad, quote-unquote, wrong, and it is, I think it's very shaming.

Yeah. And it's not like parents are shaming on purpose or anything. Right. Right.  But I do feel like the kids feel, I would say, a great deal of shame or embarrassment or, a judgment to say the least- Mm-hmm ... when they come home. And 

[00:31:00] sometimes the holes aren't even fixed, which I get. Yes. Yes. Because the parents are like, "No, I want my kid to fix it." Mm-hmm. 

I get it. And so it's, I think it's even more hard than I think we can even imagine. That's... And I'm not trying to make excuses for the kids or anything like that, but just understanding, you know, the crap out of them can really, really help. I stole that from a therapist friend of mine, so, 

I love that. I love that ... yeah But it, yeah, I think you're absolutely right that they could have super high expectations of themselves. Yes. And I'm sure you see this too, and this is why you do what you do, is the parents have not com- well communicated their expectations, so there is that mismatch of- Mm

kid thinks this, parents think or assume this. Like, I think a lot of parents say- Oh ... "Well, we shouldn't even have to say you won't use drugs because duh, like, that's assumed." It's like, "Actually, we need to talk 

[00:32:00] about that."  We need to say that for  sure. Yes. Yes and I know that that can be a really heartbreaking thing when kids are getting ready to come home and they're telling their parents, "Oh, I'm not gonna be sober. I have no intention of being sober." 

Yeah. I heard that. And I was like- That happens way more than one would think ... "Whoa, whoa, whoa, what?" You know? Yeah. So if you're hearing that, that is not uncommon. There are ways to deal with that. So- Yeah ... anything else on the kids' experience that we think we should cover off on?

One little quick little story- Yeah ... is when my son, after those five months of amazing brain repair, when he got back into stuff, it was not nearly as I would say hard as previous. You know, the substances weren't as hard. Mm-hmm. So we were really grateful for that. But one thing he said to me- that kind of blew my mind at the time, is he said, "Mom, your 

[00:33:00] expectations of how this is gonna go is going to, like, wreck me."Hmm. And I remember thinking like, "What? What? Uh, what do you mean? Like, I expect you to stop using... I expect you... There be no drugs, and I expect you to, like, get a job and finish high school. Like, how, how h- h- you know- Right ... how many other expectations do you want me to let go of?" is kind of what I thought. Yeah. But when I really tried to hear him, which is also very hard, I realized that I had way other, way more expectations than I was sort of even letting myself, feel. Hmm. And 

I just wanted to offer that I think sometimes we kid ourselves into like, "Well, I didn't want anything." It's like, "Yeah, you did, and you do, and that's okay." I don't think I was being very honest with myself- Hmm ... so therefore, I could not even be close to honest with my son. And he called me out. Right. And it was a little rough of a moment, but I did try to listen and realized, yeah, there was some things 

[00:34:00] here that I wasn't willing to talk to him about. I wasn't being very clear and all those. So it happens- Mm-hmm ... and it's okay, but I think the expectations are very crushing for our children.  Yeah. Would you be open to sharing what maybe one of those expectations were that you were feeling but not necessarily acknowledging even to yourself? Yeah. I think probably this is gonna be kind of a, well, that he would share more of my values. Hmm. Even, maybe religious values at the time. Yeah. Things have changed since then. Yeah. But I think at the time, I thought, "Oh, I thought you would wanna jump back into that." Oh, okay. That makes sense. I thought, yeah, I thought you would, Even drive more responsibly.

So, something like that. Like- Right, right ... oh, well now that you've been through it, I'm sure you realize that, you know, you shouldn't take risks. Um- Right. What? Like, he's a 17-year-old, like, 

[00:35:00] hot, you know, hothead. So there was a, there was things in there, like he was still, you know, jumping his Jeep over railroad tracks. You know what I mean? And he was still like... It just, you know, he, I mean, he refused to come home on time. I mean, that was the one thing I was like, "Seriously? Still?" You know, and, you know, so he was always breaking curfew. I mean, that's kind of a normal one, but- Yeah, yeah ... I think the sharing the values thing, really stopped me for a minute.

Yes. Well, no, thank you for sharing that because I can imagine people, I'm just hearing people's brains churning, like, "What is she talking about?" Oh, I'm glad you asked. Yeah. 

Yeah. So I think that that's, that's super helpful. And yeah, it is common that we, and I just, the reason this is so fresh in my mind is I just recorded an episode with my son, Enzo, and he was talking about how, you know, he really felt this pressure that I didn't think I was communicating. Right. I really didn't. Yeah. 

[00:36:00] And he was like, "Oh yeah, I felt it." And so, it's always good to just check in with ourselves about what may we kind of subliminally be projecting- Yeah ... onto our kids or about them that that is not helpful- Yeah ... to put it bluntly. Right.  Well, and I think my son may have been also expressing, but not at the right, the word of this, but my anxiety was through the roof.

Mm. Through the roof. So I think just daily life expectations were I was super anxious about. So I think that's the other thing he was probably saying to me, not just like, "Your expectations are crushing," but my anxiety was crushing him. Yeah. Right? 

Yeah. So. Yeah. And it's hard not to have that anxiety when you see a person that you love doing really dumb, dangerous things. Oh my gosh. So hard. Okay. Good. So that's what we know about kids. If you wanna 

[00:37:00] know more, you know, my son is available to talk. I'll put his info in the show notes. In our community, we do these ask me anything sessions where we invite- Yeah ... young people in recovery to come and just literally all they do is answer questions.

You can ask them anything. So it is helpful to get their perspective because they're thinking things- Oh ... that we're like, "What?" Like we're- It's, it's so insightful. It will blow your mind. 

Yes. Yes. Yeah. And I think my son probably would've shared some of this stuff with me if I had known how to ask about it in a way that didn't have an agenda, where I wasn't, you know, trying to get at something or get him to say something. Like if I'd- Mm ... been able to have that judgment-free curiosity to set all my expectations aside and just really be curious, I think he probably would've talked to me, which would've helped 

[00:38:00] my anxiety, all of that. Yeah. I don't know that it would've changed his trajectory at all, 'cause he was dead set on what he was doing, but it could've given me a little bit more insight. So anyway, that's why we encourage curiosity. What about from the parent's experience the first 90 days home? Oh, gosh. Other than the look that we both gave each other, Yeah ... when we first said it.  Right. It's one of those things that- A good plan, oh, can be everything. Yeah. Right? And I really, that's what a lot of what I do, right? Is really creating, I call it a home plan. I do not believe in contracts- Yeah ... between family members. Yes ... and I also believe in a one-page, possibly maybe four, focuses, because you just, your brain just can't handle anything else. And so the plan I think is really, really important. But then 

[00:39:00] I really emphasize There's, there's a time that you just kind of, you observe. That's, that's probably the best word out there- Mm-hmm ... is you just observe to see how it's gonna go, what's gonna happen, what's not gonna happen. Because you're basically, you're just planning for the future, right? You're just making a plan- Yeah ... for the future. And brains are, like, horrible at predicting the future. Horrible. Right. Right. We're very, very, very- We're just trying to preserve ourselves ... bad at it. Yes. Yes, exactly. 

Yeah. And but yet we have to do it because we, that's how we work as well. And so, make the plan, yes and then there's this period of observation that where you're following through with whatever was on the home plan, right?

You're trying not to over expect. Some expectations of course are very important. Boundaries of course are very important, so you're, you're like making this cognitive plan, which is important. 

[00:40:00] But then when you kind of like bring that cognitive plan down to reality, something always goes amiss. Always.  Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm. And you just, because you just can't think ahead as accurately as you might think you can. And so- Right ... I really, really like to encourage parents to it's like wait to see how it goes. We don't know what they're gonna do. We don't know where they're gonna have a hard time. And every parent will be like, "Oh, well I do.

They're gonna do da, da, da." Okay. And you might be wrong and you're right, might be right. Yeah. And often, we're wrong. Yeah. I've seen it happen over and over and over. And it's just, there's just like little nuances, you know? And that's okay. But parents, and I get why, we as people, we like to have certainty.

We do not like the unknown at all. In fact, our brains actually have a negative bias to help prepare us for the future, and we would act- we'd actually almost rather have that than just say, "Huh, I don't know what's gonna 

[00:41:00] happen." We would rather actually plan for negativity. It's very- Right ... interesting. Right. Yeah. But that's how human brains work. So we work with them.  It is, it is so, it is so weird. And we were talking, when we were preparing for this, we were talking about how it is similar to a birth plan. Whether you are- Yes ... birthing your child or if even if you're adopting, I have heard so many of my friends who have adopted kids, and they think it's gonna go this way, and then 27 things went differently, and it was a different day, and it was a different hospital or you know.

And we can have the best plan, and it's beautiful, and we even think we've accounted for blips and all of that, and then it all goes haywire, and we have to be able to adjust and twist and turn. And I think I love the plan idea and I'm so glad that you don't create contracts because I think that's just who wants to live under a contract with your 

[00:42:00] parents or like, it just feels terrible. I think another thing, in addition to the plan that you put in place, is what I see as being one of the most valuable things that a parent can do is to manage your own self-regulation That cannot be overstated. 

Yeah. If there's, let's say you somehow never got around to figuring out boundaries, you never got around to figuring out whatever, the number one thing that you could do that will help your child when they come home from treatment is to have the ability to regulate yourself so that if you are frazzled, anxious, fearful, all those things, find a way to manage that so that when you're interacting with them, you are calm, you are able to say, "I don't know, but we'll figure this out." Yeah. That alone will help dial down 

[00:43:00] whatever they're going through. 'Cause as we just talked about with their experience, they're going through a lot, and if our energy level and emotions and anxiety are way up here, they're gonna match it, right? Yeah. It's that whole, you, you've done equine therapy.

You know, like, the co-regulation thing. They're gonna match us. Yeah. I know. And then the whole house goes into a tizzy, right?  Oh my goodness, yeah. Yeah, I love that. It's so important. One of the very 'cause this was, this felt impossible to me, just so you know. Yeah. Like, emotional regulation- Yeah, yeah

before I learned how to do it. It felt impossible. I would've said that. I would've, I believed it. I'm like, "Well, you might be able to, but I can't." Right. That's literally how I felt. You don't have my kid. Yeah, yeah. You don't have my kid, and you don't know what's happening inside of me and all this stuff. But one of the first things I was able to implement was just pausing. 

[00:44:00] Mm-hmm. Or walking away. Yes. I, that's all I could get my hands on at the beginning. I, as, of my work. I was just like, "We're gonna have to talk about this later." And then I would just walk away. Yes. Yes. And it, it was very hard, but it was the only, it was, like, one of the first things I could actually get access to, 'cause I didn't know how to regulate.

I didn't know how to do it all. I do, I mean, it's one of my favorite things to help parents through because, of course, I have a lived experience with actually learning how to self-regulate. Yes ... but I'll just say, like, even just pausing until you can get a little bit of brain space is just- so helpful.

It's so helpful, and it does feel like your brain's gonna make you think that you're ignoring the problem or avoiding it or somehow, skirting it or shoving it under the rug or whatever it is our brains are telling us, and that's just not true. You just, you want to wait until you have some brain access, so. Yes. It's not, you're not dealing with it. Yes. You're putting it off until you are able 

[00:45:00] to deal with it in a healthy way, and I'm so glad you said that about just hit the pause button, step away. Yep. Anybody can do that. Literally anybody can do that. Yep. And that's the first-  If I can do it, you can do it.

Exactly. Exactly, and then, you know, there's things like meditation or brain, you know, breathwork or equine therapy, all these different things that can help you. But if you're brand new to it and you're like, "Oh, I don't know what she is talking about," like- Yeah ... when my kid is swearing at me and screaming at me, first of all, we never, ever, ever, ever interact with somebody in that mode, but when things get heated or things get wonky and sideways and your spouse is not agreeing with you, your kid's not agreeing with you, everything is a mess, pause.

I think of- Pause ... I think of the Big Red, like, the I think it was Staples had the Easy Button. Like, I visually think about a button being on somebody's forehead and I'm just like, "I'm just 

[00:46:00] gonna press that, and then I'm gonna excuse myself. Gonna get myself together." I would just walk around our neighborhood, bawling most of the time. I'm sure our neighbors thought, "What in the world is going on in that house?" 'Cause I was always crying as I was walking around the block. Yeah. And that really helped so much. It, it was almost too simple.  Yeah. Yeah. Because then I would get back and I'd take a deep breath, and I'd be like, "Okay, I can deal with this."Yeah. Yeah. But in the moment, you can't. Right. Yeah. I teach a lot of emotional regulation and how to do it, and even just, like, the nuanced baby steps of what's happening in the brain, so it's one of my favorite things, so. 

Yeah. Yeah. Give me a call and- Yes, give Beth a call, please. And, and just know that that, I think, the most important thing on the parent side of this is just know there's gonna be blips, know your plan may not go as planned. Yes. And- Attune. 

[00:47:00] I have some... You know, that's, that's part of it is, is really seeing your kid Bes- you know, outside of their behavior. Like, they're gonna be doing things, these blips that we're talking about, right? Mm-hmm. And I think one of the best, I guess, advice I could give is try, try to see through their behavior to, like, there's a human who is in pain. Mm. That's it. Yeah. That's 

what's in front of you, is a human in pain. Your child is in pain in some way, shape, or form. And to... That can help, just in yourself trying to regulate and figure out, like... 'Cause a lot of times it feels like they're doing it to you, right? Especially if this is... or if you're early on in the game, that's a very common, like, human response, is taking offense to your child's behavior.

So it's very common. But one of the things I think that can help is to realize, like, they're not doing it, they're not, you know... And this is pretty common now, but they're not giving you a hard time, they're having a hard time, 

[00:48:00] truly. Yeah. And I love that- Yeah ... because it's so true. They are having a very hard time. They're in pain. And so that can help- Yes ... with the understanding of what's, like, going on, so. 

Yes, and not taking it personally. I think there's- Yeah ... that is such an important point to remember, is... 'Cause I remember I took everything very personally. Totally. I thought if he was messing up, it was at me, you know?

He doesn't love you enough or doesn't respect you enough- ... or doesn't whatever, which is just not true. Yes. Nope. It wasn't about me at all. Nope. I just happened to be the closest person to it, so. Yeah. Experiencing the blowback, so. So true. Well, thank you for being you and for doing what you do and for helping us out in our community.

Oh, love it. Our moms adore you, and we love having you do your sessions and groups with us, so we appreciate all of it, all of you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm 

[00:49:00] so happy to be counted amongst Hopestream, so thank you- Yes ... so much, and you. Awesome. All right. Have a good rest of your day, Beth. Thanks, everybody. Bye bye.