The NSMB Podcast
From the team behind NSMB.com, The NSMB podcast will go behind the scenes with the makers, breakers, and risk-takers of our favourite sport. Interviews, news, and other important topics will all be on the menu.
The NSMB Podcast
Wade Simmons
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Evolution of Freeride Mountain Biking
Wade SimmonsYou know , and I was kind of like long time bike mechanic working in the cove . And then we had this staff meeting , like okay , we're planning for spring , it's going to kick into season here . You know like who's staying on ? What are we doing ? Wait , wait , are you going to be like full time ? And I'm like , well , actually no . And she's like no , this will probably be like 93 , 94 . I'm like no , there's actually Rocky Mountain has made an offer to pay me money to ride a bike .
Cam McRaeHi there , I'm Cam McRae and you're listening to the NSMB podcast . We have a real treat for you . In this episode I'll be talking to the one and only godfather of freeride , wade Simmons . Back in the year 2000 , the first article ever posted on NSMBcom was an interview with Wade . I met him at a cafe on Commercial Drive in Vancouver and , despite not knowing me or NSsmbcom , he was gracious and friendly and we had a great conversation .
Cam McRaeFast forward 25 years and Wade has become a global mountain biking icon . While he was the very first Red Bull Rampage champion , competition has never been his thing . Wade's always been about originality and exploration . His distinctive riding form is incredibly smooth and stylish and he's inspired mountain bikers around . And exploration His distinctive riding form is incredibly smooth and stylish and he's inspired mountain bikers around the world . It's fun talking to Wade . He's a deep thinker . He's always got something on his mind and it's often something controversial . He searches for big picture answers and he's got lots of opinions . We talked about growing up in Kamloops , racing , bmx , career choices , epic rides , e-bikes and a movie project he's been working on with Derek Westerlund . And now I hope you enjoy my conversation with Wade Simmons . We've got a lot to talk about . We do have a lot of shit to talk about , okay .
Wade SimmonsI mean I want to talk about like the state of freeride right now .
Cam McRaeYeah , that's interesting .
Wade SimmonsIt is very interesting Give you my perspective on it .
Cam McRaeYeah , and .
Wade SimmonsRampage . I like the Dark Fest , of course , what they're doing is , but everyone's doing it Right , it's true . That's kind of like what's weird is that the Dark Fest is rad , it's so awesome , but kind of like what's weird is that the Dark Fest is rad , it's so awesome , but how many people go down there and do it ? Right , there's like what 20 riders and they're hitting these massive jumps . Right , the jumps are massive , but everyone's hitting the massive jumps , so it's not really that exciting .
Cam McRaeBecause everyone's doing the same thing , everyone can do it .
Wade SimmonsEveryone's doing the same thing , right . Do the same thing , right . And then you know I'm not much of a . You know I have to on instagram my whole . For the whole week of dark fest , my instagram was filled with the same people doing the same jumps . Yeah , it's true , right ? Yeah , me , wade simmons , one of the pioneers of free riding .
Wade SimmonsI find that I mean , I don't want to be callous or or disingenuous to these guys , but it's kind of like it's a little boring because there's nothing new going on . Right , like they're doing big whips , they're hitting the 90 footer , they're hitting the 110 , but 20 people are hitting it . You know , when we were doing stuff , there was no one . We were pioneering for the first time . Like it was like someone had never hit something like that before . So now you get all these guys that are hitting it . It's just like , I find . Like you know , they're all like high-fiving each other , stroking each other off . It's kind of like you're all doing it . It's just , these guys are just like it's this posse of feeding off each other for what you know .
Cam McRaeYeah , it's an interesting point .
Wade SimmonsIt becomes normality , there's nothing new being done . I mean , if one guy is hitting the biggest jump , then it's like , oh my God , he hit the biggest jump . Or if there's some new lines , the tricks are cool , you know , like Ben Benvenido , you know he does a front flip , he does a front flip , he does a backflip right , you know , but it's still on the same jump that everyone else is kind of hitting too . So it's not as I don't know . I , you know I get lost in my thoughts with that Like what am I trying to get out here ? Like what , what is being lost ?
Cam McRaeBut it's just well , it seems to me what you're talking about is the difference between doing something that's an event , for it almost seems like they're doing something for them , like they're doing it because they enjoy doing it and it looks super fun , it's like a session hanging out , exactly . But you come from the generation when you guys were making movies and your part in the movie had to be completely different . Not only I guess that's it for GoPro , hey , that was good .
Cam McRaeNot only did it have to be different than everyone else's segment , it had to be different than anything else in your segment . Yes , so you , each little part had to be distinct .
Wade SimmonsWell , we were . Yeah , we didn't want to repeat other people's stuff , I know .
Cam McRaeWhereas these guys are repeating each other .
Wade SimmonsWell , that's kind of what I'm getting at and themselves , you know , and not only just them , but collectively this generation .
Cam McRaethey're feeding off like it's kind of like in every aspect of life , you know yeah , it's an interesting , interesting distinction to make between the two things and I can see , as someone who came up being in movies and watching the movies , where you'd see , okay , what's going to happen when this guy goes , when those guys go ? You know what's going to happen because they're hitting the same jumps exactly . So it's definitely a different approach to mountain bike media unfortunately , I think .
Wade SimmonsI think I'm just skewed . Like I want to be , like I . I enjoy it , I watch it , I get excited , I'm stoked , I watch . You know , you can see between the different riders who has a style and who's confident , who's not right . But at the end of the day I think about like what ? What's my takeaway from this ? You know , it's like , okay , they're all hitting the same jump and top to bottom lines on the instagram and you're like , yeah , I mean I guess one of the things we're admiring is their skill yeah , the collective skill of everyone is because what they're they're doing is obviously unbelievable .
Cam McRaeYeah , I mean they're motorcycle size . Jumps on oh it's disgusting on mountain bikes on , you know .
Wade SimmonsAnd then seeing I you know I get excited about the girls doing it because I know that it's it's more of a pioneering thing for them . Yep , that's very true . You know there's only a handful of them doing it . You don't see no via go through there and robin , and you know the girls that are hitting it all .
Cam McRaeIt's like that's , that's awesome the progression in the last few years is unbelievable . Yeah , so good , because it wasn't long ago before there weren't many women who would , who would even whip on a jump you know , what's funny now , too , is that you used to .
Wade SimmonsWhen , when you know not to , not to take anything away and this could be taking the wrong light but you can almost notice a girl's riding , you're like , oh , that's a girl . Now I see the style and I'm like they're right there . They're like , oh , I mean male , female , it doesn't matter , it seems like the level is right there .
Cam McRaeIt's awesome . It's amazing to think about what it's going to be like in 10 years , when they've come so far . I don't want to make that sounds like I'm being bad , like , oh , Simmons you know , ride like a girl .
Wade SimmonsBut it's kind of like I'm actually taking enjoyment in the fact that you can't tell anymore . It's so cool , you know .
Cam McRaeYeah , yeah , yeah . No , I mean Way to go . We're dinosaurs and that's probably going to come out a little bit in the podcast .
Parenting Styles and Child Development
Wade SimmonsWell , you know we're , you know I was , you know was thinking about that and the whole like taking down statues and you know , like you know , of course , all the First Nations and you know slavery stuff and you know the names of universities being changed , is that those guys lived in a time like we're evolved , now we're enlightened . You know they were living in a time that they only knew that .
Cam McRaeYou know they didn't have our perspective now back then . Yeah , there's some amazing things that happened , though , and you think of Thomas Jefferson writing in the Constitution that all men are created equal , and he owned slaves . He was almost there . Which part of that sentence did not ? What part of equal do you mean ? Which part of man ? Maybe equal ? What part of equal do you mean ? Which part of man ?
Wade SimmonsMaybe equal had a different definition back then .
Cam McRaeYeah , it's crazy to think of the perspective , and he was obviously one of the better ones .
Wade SimmonsWell , that's kind of what I'm getting at is , in their time they were probably the good ones . So everyone's like , oh , they know like this or that , but you know we didn't live then . It's easy to put our ideals now on them , you know , looking back , but you know they say hindsight's , 2020 . It's like , yeah , we can see it perfectly from from our position now , but living back then you don't . I mean , they had a different perspective and you know you had to evolve from something it's true , yeah right , and we're all part of the culture that birthed us .
Wade SimmonsSo I just think you know I'm not against , like you know people say , oh , but you know it's we got to forget that , forget that stuff . But it's almost like you needed to remind us of of how bad it once was . You know , because if you do erase the whole past of of bad , then you don't know . You're just like you just live in this vanilla where there was no good and no bad . Because if we do reach a maximum of good , then you don't know what good is , because good is just to be good , there has to be a bad .
Cam McRaeThere's no ability to compare .
Wade SimmonsYeah , To be wet you have to have dry . If it's just wet , wet wouldn't exist . That's just normal .
Cam McRaeSo if it weren't for the bad times , we wouldn't have known where to go .
Wade SimmonsIt's kind of like that , saying a caged bird knows no freedom , you know , yeah , it's like he's happy he's a bird living in a cage . Like what does he know ?
Cam McRaeIt's true . Yeah , that's interesting thing . I mean , we were talking the other day about not knowing what another life would have been like . Yeah , and you only know the life you know . But at the same time , most of us have been through situations like you had probably jobs you didn't like when you were a kid and I think you're supposed to ?
Wade SimmonsYeah , for sure , because you know that grows you as a human , exactly . Yeah , you know . Yeah , like I don't know . You know I look at my kids and I have an older brother and he has a son , my nephew and my brother's quite a lot older than me . He's six years older and my boy's 13 now and his cousin's 23, . So 10 years different , and I was watching . He was kind of the first generation of like I .
Wade SimmonsYou know my dad , I was a baby three , my brother Ryan , middle , and my older sister Deanna . I had to do chores Like my dad . You know he wouldn't bust my balls , but it would be like I had chores mow the lawn , you know , do this , do that . And then when my brother had Eric , eric didn't do much . You know what I mean , because it just got into the generation of like you know we weren't . You know humanity was evolving . You don't push your kids . You know , like elliot , my boy , he's 13 now . He doesn't have many chores . You know , when I tell him all the time , I'm like what is your age ? Typical story , right , I did this and I did that . I can't get him to feed the dog , you know I have a similar experience with my kids , for sure you do .
Wade SimmonsI'm sure it's a collective uh reality , but it's just . Why is it ? Why do things change like that ?
Cam McRaeand it's interesting because I used to think that people who you know weren't harder on their kids , or at least firm and disciplined them , that those kids were not going to turn out well . But it turns out . They kind of do . Yeah , because sometimes kids with just grow up with not a lot of boundaries but a lot of love . They turn out pretty well , yeah , which makes me think , like what the hell have I been doing ? All you need is love , exactly .
Wade SimmonsIt's a song , isn't it ? All you need is love , love , lisa , my wife she is a middle child of three and her younger brother , two girls , one boy . Younger brother Corey , he's a good guy , he's a lineman and his dad , dave , rest in peace . He's passed away now but we get together family things and Corey would always say Corey's a bit of a I don't want to say he's a hard-ass dad , but he's , you know , like linemen are kind of old-school guys , hard worker , right piece of hydro linemen .
Wade SimmonsAnd you know we talked about hitting our kids . Like this is going back 10 years . I used to maybe cuff Elliot , you know , on the side of the head , like what are you doing , boy ? You know like hitting his sister or something like that . Don't hit your kids . I'm like well , I didn't hit them . I mean there's levels of hitting . It's like a little tap , like a dog . You've got to get them out of the situation .
Wade SimmonsAnd Corey remembers getting hit by Dave , his dad . And it's funny because he's like I deserved it . Now , being a dad himself , he's like oh yeah , I deserved it , I was a total asshole . Look at him now he's like turned out good right , like he's he actually respects the fact that his dad took a heavy hand a little bit , you know , because you have to steer the ship a little bit . Yeah , yeah , it's interesting . But if that happened now , like , say , you're in savon and you could like whack your kid for dropping some m&ms on the ground , you know , it's like child services people be filming you like you know , like you're like you know did you have any corporal punishment in your home when you were a kid ?
Cam McRaeyeah , I remember once you know , old school .
Wade Simmonslike you know , my dad now is 72 , so it was a bit different back then . But I dodged a hit at the dinner table and he knocked over the milk , like he went to like smack me , like you know , and I was like he's like , dude , you shouldn't hit the carton of milk . You won that round , I won that round .
Cam McRaeI was like I'm leaving now I'll go to my bedroom . He was even more mad , for sure .
Wade SimmonsYou know , it's kind of like the classics , you see it .
Cam McRaeYou see it's like this hurts me more than you , and you see like you get the belt out , do you remember ?
Wade Simmonsyour mouth washed out with soap ? I did not , and we were talking about it the other day with Corey , my brother-in-law , and a friend of his , mike Lamb . Mike was saying I got my mouth washed out with soap . I never had that . My parents are pretty , my mom's like a total sweetheart , rose-colored glasses , like she would never do that , and I'm being the baby I basically raised myself that's .
Cam McRaeThat's kind of an advantage , I think , being the youngest kid , just like my parents were done . I don't want to say they were done with parenting , but they were pretty much done with fighting against against their children you know , and they , they know , they kind of turn out all right anyway , yeah , there's only so much you can do to influence that .
Wade SimmonsI got a very like . My sister is a doctor , family doctor . My brother never went to post-secondary like I did . He married his high school sweetheart and became a farmer , like dairy farming . She was a black old dairy farmer in Kamloops . He worked there and he's a bit of entrepreneur like he used to have a carpet cleaning business and then he owns the , owned a hasty market gas station and then , uh , now he used to distribute briars ice cream up in the calumps area . Yeah , so he's kind of total entrepreneurial spirit .
Wade SimmonsAnd then me , I , you know I I had intentions to go to university and you're kind of just going through life like , oh , this and that and I raised BMX and then , uh , my bike skills were pretty good , so that translated into mountain biking and I kind of had a taste for the outdoors and found myself in this , uh , this sports stream . You know I had full intentions to go to university and I'm sure my mom back then was like pushing me , you know , like I had application . I got accepted , I think , to a few universities like locally , you know I I forget which ones , you know , but definitely I was gonna . You know I was gonna go . And my mom always tells you that , yeah , you were accepted , I got good grades , I got . I got I was the kind of guy like grade 10 , 11 I would come home with like a , d or a c minus in math and I get yelled at . So next , next report card , I have a b , you know , like an a like , okay , I'll do the work .
Wade SimmonsI was a you know I . I was very good back then to realize what I needed to do to get through . I can , I can read the situation and I was . I was always like a look at a head guy like , say , the teacher would be on chapter eight , whatever , and I'd be in chapter 11 already . I'm like , I'm more like okay , well , done this , I get this concept , but where is it going ? I was always like but where is it going ? What does it mean ? You know that's how we opened up this conversation about . You know , like , like , what does it mean ? Like , what are they doing ? Like they're doing this now , but what's the end game ?
Cam McRaedo you remember when you did you ever make a decision to not go to university ? Or did it just happen that you were doing other things so you never decided ?
Wade SimmonsI never had that decision like I'm not going to university , but it just biking made it , I guess , easy . I don't want to say it was easy , but it presented itself at the right time . But and I did remember the conversation I had with lisa lisa , I forget her last name right now , but she was the uh , the book girl for the cove bike shop . Okay , long time worked with chas , you know , she kind of did like , uh , the scheduling and all the accounts , payables and stuff . And we had this definitive moment , because it was we were working through winter , you know , and I was kind of like-time bike mechanic working in the cove . And then we had this staff meeting , like okay , we're planning for spring , it's going to kick into season here . You know like , who's staying on ? What are we doing ? Wait , are you going to be like full-time ? And I'm like , well , actually no . And she's like no , this . And she's like , no , this would probably be like 93 , 94 . I'm like no , uh , there's actually rocky mountain has made an offer to pay me money to ride a bike . I remember having a conversation there and she's like what ? Like , like what do you don't race ? Like what do you mean ? They're gonna pay you money .
Wade SimmonsIt's like well , that time I was racing , I was downhill racing with Mike Hunter . Mike Hunter was a cross-country guy and I was downhill and that summer we had negotiated with Rocky to pay our gas and accommodation driving the Volkswagen van across Canada following the Canada Cup race circuit . So we had this Volkswagen van that was marketed Rocky Mountain . On the side I was to do downhill racing , mike was doing cross-country , and that was the year of like . The side I was to do downhill racing , mike was doing cross country , and that was the year of like . No , I'm not working in the bike shop , we're going across canada and riding mountain bikes right on . Yeah , and that was kind of the start . That was the first taste of like working , you know , like being a pro rider was that like 99 or something ?
Cam McRaeno , no , 94 , wow , 94 really . So I first started rocky 94 95 , 94 , 95 .
Wade SimmonsSo , and since that time you've been paid as a rider since that time I've been making a living somewhat of a living being a mountain biker . Yeah , never back to work . Well , that's not true . I actually did work at rocky uh as a uh wheel builder . I worked on the assembly line , oh , right on , and Rocky was in Anastas Island , yeah . So , you know , you just take , you know it's the mountain bike season in the summer . In the winter I would kind of do jobs . You know , I worked at Coast Mountain Sports , you know , like selling ski jackets . For one year I worked .
Wade SimmonsMy dad worked for Sears . That was his career , working for the retailer Sears , and he got me a couple jobs at different Sears , you know , different locations , and I had this wicked job . I had a 6 till 10 shift at the Capilano Sears , which is funny now because that's the North Shore bike park . Yeah , it's hilarious . And talking to the North Shore bike park guys , I'm like I used to work here like unloading containers for the morning . So my , you know the store would say open at 10 . I'd get there at 6 . The truck would come in . We'd unload the truck with , like whoever bought refrigerators or stoves or whatever was ordered from the warehouse , you know . So we'd unload the truck , put it in there do customer service and it was good hourly six till ten . I get off at ten and I call kev mod and we go mountain biking or whatever you know .
Cam McRaeRight on , yeah , go filming with digger uh well , we've gone all over the place already . Um , I know that happens
Early Influences in Mountain Biking
Cam McRaeand uh . So one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is I mean , there's so many chapters in your life . What do you recall as the most memorable era , or even like if there's specific smaller moments that really are seared into your memory about your career as a mountain biker really are seared into your memory about , about your , your career as a mountain biker .
Wade SimmonsUh , oh , just uh , it's hard to just pull out of the files . Yeah , I guess . Uh , you know , I had a couple pivotal points , definitely like , uh , back in the day I was working again as a bike mechanic and we did . There was a race up Mount Seymour , remember there was a race at .
Cam McRaeMount Seymour , a cross-country race , hell of an earth Maybe .
Wade SimmonsYeah , this one was at the top , though .
Wade SimmonsIt was a cross-country race at the top . Oh yeah , yeah , I don't remember the name of it , but Bruce Spicer , who is now somewhat an acquaintance friend of mine . I don't remember the name of it , but Bruce Spicer , who is now somewhat an acquaintance friend of mine . I don't see him too much but I would call him a friend . He said to me he's like you should ride mountain bikes . I remember him saying that to me . He recognized that I had a talent of bike riding . These little snippets of memories Spicer telling me you should ride mountain bikes . And then Jesse Kiefer . Remember that name , jesse Kiefer , another old mountain bike legend .
Cam McRaeCross country racer .
Wade SimmonsYeah , sorry , jesse , he was a cross country racer , cross country racer , yeah , and this is when cross country and downhill were kind of like they had them at the same events . You know , one day would be the cross country , next would be downhill , and I think he said like he's like , yeah , we should , we should race downhill . You know , kind of like we should go in the downhill rather than cross country . I don't mind cross country like , but I'm not . You know , I don't . I don't ride mountain bikes to get fit . I ride mountain bikes for fun and fitness comes as a , as a secondary right . That you know it's kind of like , the more I ride , the fitter I get it's . You know , I don't train to get go mountain biking , I mountain bike , I mountain bike to train , kind of thing . I've always had that mentality . It just happens . It just happens exactly the more I ride , the fitter you get .
Cam McRaeSo those guys were saying to you that this is something that you should try and do as a living , or just pursue it .
Wade SimmonsWe didn't know there was no living back then it was just like yeah .
Cam McRaeOh , because I was so early , was so early recognized a bit of talent in me .
Wade SimmonsThey're like , yeah , you should pursue that kind of thing . You know , do some riding and then get to know leslie tomlinson and all the old pros and we go on the saturday morning rides with them and get fit and just , you know , it's uh , it's really , it's really a who you know game as as you would , I'm sure would say too right , like you can , you can go to school , you can do this . But it's kind of like you just get to know the right people and and uh , be respectful of course , and uh , and doors open for you . And I've been very fortunate that way where , you know , I've just had , I've had the talent , I had the hard work , ethic , a good listener and kind of , yeah , the right doors open who are some of the people who , uh , you look looked up to as as bikers , oh so many , like all of them .
Wade SimmonsYou know , like I used to work at the Cove , so I would say , you know , talking about history of mountain biking on the shore , people like they say oh , simon , you were like first wave . It's like no , I wasn't first wave , like I would say I would be second wave for sure , because the Chazzes , all Chazzes , old buddies , stew boys , uh , flex dughorn , I mean , you know those guys , yep , yeah , like those guys are legends , no of them . Yeah . So when we were growing up as like young seven like I , I came to vancouver after graduation in 91 and I was 18 , you know so 18 , 19 . We used to hook up with these like og , og shore guys and they would ride our ass off and they're all hardcore , fit dudes . You know , like I remember doug horn used to wear a singlet , like that's . He used to love wearing a singlet .
Wade SimmonsIt would be like he's a track rider , yeah , and no , no , no , no , like I'm just like a wife beater oh , not a singlet like a white beater and that would be his like jersey would be this white white beater and that would be his like jersey would be this white white beater and it would be sleeting out like three degrees february and he'd be out in this , like in this white beater , like up top of top of for home , you know , just sweating , dropping us .
Cam McRaeSo the guys then with kind of the most stature were the the guys who could go fast and go for a long time yeah , they were .
Wade SimmonsI mean , that's where mountain bike started . Was the the cross-country side of it , you know ? And uh , what's his name ?
Cam McRaejojo buscomb , you know I don't know that name actually you don't know , jojo . No , come on I don't think so he was riding .
Wade SimmonsYeah , he , yeah , he was a pro you know with . Yeah , too many names are flooding my head right now . Yeah , yeah .
Cam McRaeSo were some of those guys better on the descents than others , Because there was obviously gnarly descents back then too Well , you know , the shore back then was very raw .
Wade SimmonsWe were riding cross-country trails or hiking trails , so it was junky , gnarly , rooty , chunky , you know so . It was junky , gnarly , rudy , chunky , you know so . It was like pin it on the fire road up and survival and down , you know so . And I can always , I always maintain a decent level of fitness , you know . But I was , but my skill , of course , was on downhill right . So that's why I shine like I , you know , really come alive on the downhill kind of thing . I would hang on the climb like be mid-pack or whatever right , because everyone would wait for each other with a little bit of ribbon , as you do , which is another conversation I'll tell you about later so and then on on the downhill did , were there guys who could keep up with you of that crew ?
Wade Simmonsuh , you know , I'm not I'm terrible racer .
Cam McRaeOr just ride the same kind of lines that you rode .
Wade SimmonsYeah , well , no , I definitely have this skill set that I could like ride anything like oh , put weight on it or whatever , right , yeah , kind of yeah , I've always been . I'm good at lines . I could always like see a line and ride it and put stuff together .
Cam McRaeYeah , when were you first ?
Wade Simmonsbecause I don't think you were not in Pulp Traction , no , so but I was working at the Cove when the car rolled in and Hans Ray and stuff like that , they kind of left the car there .
Cam McRaeSo what was the first movie you were in ?
Wade SimmonsWhat would be the first movie I was in . That's a good I don't even know . I mean you were in some of be the first movie I was in .
Cam McRaeThat's a good . I don't even know . I mean you were in some of digger's movies , like well digger .
Wade SimmonsI guess it would have been the first and then it's like one , because crank was a couple years before new world . Yeah , probably digger movies nsx1 . That's certainly where I first probably bjorn enga or no bjorn , they were there we're in christiana I don't know , I don't know
Memories of Freeride Mountain Biking
Wade Simmonswhat the first one was .
Cam McRaeThere was a lot of movies back then . Yeah , it could have been NSX1 .
Wade SimmonsCould have been NSX1 . The first movie , probably , yeah .
Cam McRaeYeah , I definitely remember watching that over and over and over and over again .
Wade SimmonsI've been in a lot of movies . Yeah , all the North Shore series , which is 10 of them , new World Disorders , a bunch of cranks , a bunch of cranks , and then rammer , thor wick , some head movies , yeah , yordy ricker , of course , cory leclerc , that's right , like I would say . I've been probably up to 50 , 55 movies . Wow , I would say , if I put it all together , yeah , like absolutely that's a lot , you know . And then the collective , and then you know the collective guys , movies , couple movies , a couple movies there .
Cam McRaeYeah , do you miss that ?
Wade SimmonsI definitely . You know what I love . I love the adventure . I'm an adventure guy . I love the travel . I love going to a new spot . You know you look at again , going the current . You know current stuff happening . You see these guys , you know going to these places , riding , you know , and who's that guy ? I kind of like his stuff . He's a French guy , rides some gnarly stuff His name's escaping me right now , but he does great stuff . He's like goes to new locations . You know , like we were the first people to Iceland . Or I never made it to Morocco , but the Crane guys went to Morocco , high Alps , like filming in the Alps for the first time . Turkey , turkey yeah , we were the first people to Cappadocia . You still see it now . People go to Cappadocia and they're like I recognize lines .
Cam McRaeI'm like we rolled that line .
Wade SimmonsI'm working on a best of . I've been talking to Derek . I want to do a Wade Simmons best of movie .
Cam McRaeOh , that's cool . So from all of the movies you're in , Well , how deep do you want to go ?
Wade SimmonsThis is the thing I mean , it's but basically it's not just derek's movies no , I would want to .
Wade SimmonsI want to incorporate it all . That'd be cool , because I have a lot of cool moves that that you know they live in those series that people really have not seen you and I want to put all the best up together . I mean it's , it's a huge project . I've been , I've been , I've been slowly kind of like going through each movie and writing down the time stamp and where we can find it and what move it is . That's a cool idea . It's going to be a very big undertaking which will dovetail nicely with godfather's garage , right , it's kind of like . You know , I did some pioneering stuff back then , like , like people need to see it . Yeah , not for my reason , just because it's like because it was . You know , like .
Wade SimmonsI remember one of my favorite moves I ever did was , you know , like a van , like an old school GMC van . I aired a manual on the top of it . I remember I had this vision . That was probably for Corey , wasn't it ? It was for Corey . I almost filmed it and we went to Kilmer Park . You know , kilmer Park it's got grass and the lower field and there's that grass , you know . So we parked the van , like totally like , put it onto the field , parked the van , you know , in front of the downhill grass landing , and I had a little port-a-booter and I aired up onto the van and then off and onto the grass , like this is . This is midnight , like late 90s .
Cam McRaeYeah , no one was I mean who could manual back then .
Wade SimmonsYeah , like a big air to manual , like onto the top of a full-size van , you know , and then off the other side , and it was like I had this vision , I wanted to do it . I'm like I think I can , like you know , jump onto a van and air off like it's . It's pretty cool that's , that's very cool it's one of my favorite moves that I'm like proud of , you know , yeah , or the wall ride , uh , vancouver , the aquatic center oh , that's yeah you know , like shit , like that .
Wade SimmonsFor sure that was buried , but it's kind of like oh , like no , yeah , you know , I like that because I've always . You know , if we want to get into this , it's like I was always I wanted my segment to be better , better , you know , and some people are like that , like seminok , and I'm sure seminok in his mind is like I need to bring something near the table , which , when you're Semenuk , how hard is that ? For me it was more riding spots . I've never been a trickster . I don't have tricks . I never learned how to flip or whatever , and tricks don't really excite me because I see tricks as being a flare . It's kind of like a peacock . Look at my feathers . That's what a trick is .
Wade SimmonsRight , you know , like you have a jump , you have the jump and the jump lives , lives as the jump , like that's the line . And then as you start to do tricks in the jump , that's more the colors you put into it . Right , you know the lipstick . You know , look , you know I'm gonna bar spit it or tail whip it or double back flip , but really the jump is just still the jump and that's why going to like these contests now it's like , yeah , they're hitting the same jump and that's why going to like these contests now , it's like , yeah , they're hitting the same jump . You know , it's kind of like it's a pissing contest really . When it comes down to it , you're like I see your flare and I'm going to up you by doing a double flare . It's like who really fucking cares ? Game of bike .
Wade SimmonsI don't care , I totally , 100% do not care about that shit . Like , oh , but he triple backflips . I'm like , yeah , you know , I'm more about the line Like who's the first person to do that drop , you know , and that's why I love Matt . Like Matt Hunter is one of my favorite riders ever because Me too . He saw the lines . He's like he's kind of like me , like , and he would say , you know , like he was like , like I was one of Matt's back in the day . I was , you know , we're buddies now , but he's like dude , I looked up to you . I'm like really like , oh , like I love hearing that right , because I look up to him . Now , you know , because I see his lines , I'm like dude , like you did that line , like that's so sick .
Impact of Social Media and Technology
Cam McRaeI'm a line guy tricks yeah , finding what you can do on the line . Yeah , like the ultimate expression of it you know .
Wade SimmonsAnd then you look at other sports and those are what the pioneers do . They're like the first to climb that or to span that . You know everyone else comes in behind and they're just . They bring the tricks , you know , they bring the lights and the cameras , like you know where . You know the first guys that do it . They're out , they're in and then they're out , they're gone . Who do you need ? Like a phantom , but then you know , but then they get forgotten . I have this line in squamish on the Malamute rock face . You know Remy's hit it .
Cam McRaeThey all hit it .
Wade SimmonsI pioneered that line . I went up there with Sterling Lawrence shot it . This is before digital , like early . You know Mark Wood , remember Mark Wood ? Mark Wood came up there because we were buddies back then , like we had shore play the business at the time . Right , I had him in a harness on a rope on the edge because , you know , because you know the line where you kind of come off and it's like there's about a 10 foot ledge in front of , like , uh , uh , in front of the water there . Okay , yeah , you know , and then it's like to certain death , right . Anyways , I was up there . We're doing a rocky mountain , we're doing a Rocky Mountain photo shoot for cross-country bikes or something . I was looking around in there for lines . I came across this line . I'm like holy shit , this is rideable . I brought Stroll there and I brought Mark Wood for protection and I rode that line . Dude , it's a sick line . It still gets hit all the time . Now you see Johan and Remy , they're airing into it and stuff .
Cam McRaeAnd .
Wade SimmonsI give them shit . I'm like that's my line , Like if you guys are going to take a photo or you know , Give me credit . You got to give me credit , Give me some props .
Cam McRaeThat doesn't happen .
Wade SimmonsBut they know .
Cam McRaeYou know like yeah , you're the godfather . I like hearing that who of like the YouTube generation .
Wade SimmonsDo you enjoy watching ? I like people who do . I like people who bring something new to the table . That's kind of you know . I'm just having trouble .
Cam McRaePeople who build their own stuff .
Wade SimmonsYeah , new spots . Who do I like on YouTube ? Well , I don't watch much YouTube , I'm more Instagram .
Wade SimmonsBut but you hate Instagram you know what , like I never hated Instagram , I hate what Instagram does to people . Gotcha , instagram is Instagram . I used to battle Chris Winter on this Like Instagram , because we'd be on a trip somewhere . He'd be taking shots for the Instagram . I'm like does it really matter ? You know , like , this lives in our heads . It's going to live there forever , but you're going to take a photo of it , you're going to get your . You know your hurrahs and then you're moving on the next one a little bit of dopamine you're almost doing no justice to the location because you're just , you're using it , you're milking it .
Wade SimmonsYou know , I had all the arguments against this around and I was gonna hope it was gonna die . But it's not dying , hasn't not quite , so it's still a little bit of words here because you know now I started this company , got father garage and now you gotta be on instagram key stark . He's like you need to kick up the instagram . I'm like I know I gotta fire up the instagram .
Cam McRaeI do have you started doing that ?
Wade Simmonswell , I'm working on account it's . You know it's a hard learn for an old guy I've got some clips .
Wade SimmonsThe other day that gully used yeah yeah , I'm getting the clips and you , you know , I have good friends who are good at it , who are going to kind of help me along the way , you know . But , yeah , I mean , I'm a real deal , you know , like everyone who ever comes on a trip with me . You're like , you know and this is what I tell Rocky too it's like when you do a demo and say you only have 10 people that come to the demo , right , you put your money in , you invest in the demo , it's a crappy day . 10 people come out . Or you do another demo , it's a sunny day . You get 100 people . Which demo is better ? One would think that the 100 people would be better On paper .
Wade SimmonsIt's like so many people went out , they rode the bike , you know , maybe some people didn't get the bike because it was too busy , right , but on that day of 10 people , you , you get to reach them on a different level . Yeah , personal attention . Personal attention and you take and you know I always make fun right , go for a ride . I'm a bit of a coach . I teach them through something . Maybe they ride something that they can't ride or they learn how to manual . You know what I mean . Like when I , when I go for other people , I'm always say hey , you should try this , or suggest that , or , or do this , or do I'll learn how to do that . Those 10 people become they . They back you for life it's like ambassadors ambassadors .
Wade SimmonsYou know they're like oh my god , I moved way . Like it was like I went to the demo . It was a shitty demo , but like it was awesome , right . So that person leaves and now , whoever he deals with or girl , or guy , whoever that person deals with , what's their life ? They're a fan , right ? Those hundred people in the demo , they might go demo another brand that you know that afternoon or that day .
Wade SimmonsIt's like that's what Instagram is like . It's like you scroll through Instagram . You see how many sick lines are done every day on Instagram . I couldn't tell you , but I see like 100 of those . So that's what I don't like about Instagram .
Wade SimmonsIt's not that I don't like Instagram . I don't like the fact that it's just like a trough and the trough is always getting bigger . So the things that are worth substance , the things that are substance , they're diminished because everything else is just clouding it . You know , like that's kind of going back to . You know a good magazine cover will always be there like holy shit , look at this magazine cover , right . Whereas you know the stuff is just like how much radness is in your phone right now . Like if I , if I had to pull this up and go on Instagram . It's like you got the sick skier riding the sickest shoot , or you got these guys in Japan on the deepest powder , or I'm dirt biking a lot now , so I get all these like rad motor guys that are doing the most epic shit on their motorbikes Like every day . It's like , oh my God , like there's too much , you know . It's almost like your scope is too wide that you can't focus on anything .
Cam McRaeLife's become a video game .
Wade SimmonsYeah , it's a video game and they're all trying to outdo each other and get the likes and you know it's just . There's no end to it is what I'm getting at no .
Cam McRaeNo , that's true .
Wade SimmonsThere's not going to be an end . Where's it going to end ?
Cam McRaeLike I mean , you know Well , are we just going to have seen everything and it'll be too boring .
Wade SimmonsWell , I kind of think that that's what I'm getting at Cam . Is that that rad thing which should have held more weight doesn't anymore because it's being blurred ?
Cam McRaeWell , and then , with AI , you'll be able to make anything look real . The deepfake You'll be able to not have , even deep . The deepfake You'll be able to not have . It's not even deepfakes anymore .
Wade SimmonsIt's like they're you just Anyways , I , yeah , I just you know I'm . Yeah , I would like if I could give up my computer and phone right now . I would Like , honestly , 100% , if someone said We'll sponsor you for not having a computer and a phone . And like you know , I'm a knock on the door guy . Like you know , I got good friends , I'm friends with a lot of people , but , like you know , like I go to Squamish I knock on people's door , you know , because that's kind of like you know , it's like , yeah , I'm not going to be . Like you know , I'm not . Like you know , I'm like that Cal Drop in yeah .
Cam McRaeYeah , yeah that's . I mean , it's funny . I've noticed something about the younger generation . They one of the things that we have this summer place at Shoe Swap , which you know about . Yeah , the younger generation , they play drinking games , but they don't play drinking games to get really drunk . And I was trying to figure out what it is about them playing video games and I realized that they can't be on their phones because they'll get stung during the video game . So what they have is a group of people that are totally engaged with each other and paying attention to each other and not off in their phone , and that's what keeps them coming back to do it . They're not . They're not trying to get everyone shit faced . It's funny , the game's fun and funny , but it's it's not about getting pulverized , it's about having everyone's complete attention , right , and it's really interesting .
Wade SimmonsI don't mean to write a book about that .
Cam McRaeYeah , thesis , there you go .
Wade SimmonsDid they admit that , or was this your conclusion ?
Cam McRaeWell , when one of them they haven't said that when one of them gets on their phone , they all get on their phone . No , they get burned or they're like you can't be on your phone , You're not going to be able to play the game .
Wade SimmonsBut I do notice to kind of support what you're saying . I've noticed , you know , because I observed my , my boy or my , my daughter with their friends . When one person goes on the phone , they all , they all do the checks . It's kind of like check time . You know what I mean . It's like , oh , we're interacting , all of a sudden no phone phone , phone , phone , phone time , and they all like on their phone , and then you know , and then they'll do their little thing and it's like , oh , and then all of a sudden they're back engaging with each other .
Cam McRaeSo I was talking to somebody the other day about the trajectory of riders' careers and how some went into the age of social media and leaned right into it and worked really hard and that's how they support continuing to be a pro rider . And your evolution has been a little different and I wanted you to talk about how how your evolution as a rider has led you to where you are now in terms of like , in terms of where you are now in in terms of your career .
Wade SimmonsWell , we'll get to the heart of it here . You look at guys , my generation , my vintage , like Schley and Tippy Tippy's doing a really good job , I think , in terms of like you look at Tippy and Schley , tippy is way he's got you know he's way more followers . I would say he's doing a better job . You know he's more reach I don't know about a better job .
Change in Marketing and Social Media
Wade SimmonsAnd then Richie kind of stalled out . You know what I mean . It's kind of like you get stuck in this middle like this kind of slack tide a little bit right . And Hans Rey , I think he does .
Wade SimmonsYeah , you know I don't want to , I don't want to say anything that's going to hurt people or anything , but it's like I . I think when you like old guys , it's just not our game . Like it's , it's hard . You know like I'm stuck in between . Like people say to me on Instagram I was like yeah , I'm sure I would be , but do I want to be ? You know , like , I don't know why , but for some reason I see it as a sellout a little bit , like these new people , new generation that comes up , that's all they know . Right , like , yeah , of course you do it . Like you don't do it Like why don't ?
Wade SimmonsFor me , who's had their fork into the dense meat ? I see it as like fluff . It's almost too fluffy . It's almost like I don't want to say I'm too core to be above it , but you're kind of like . I see it as a seller At this point in my career to come onto Instagram and hose it all down . I see it as being fake , even though some people they may not even see that side of it . Like what do you mean ? It's fake , like you know , it's like I know , but like , for some reason , it's like I'm faking it Because I'm beyond my prime , obviously , right . So now , when I want to grow Instagram , it's like , look at me , I'm big on Instagram . It's like I had my time . You know what I mean . So on instagrams , like I had my time , you know I mean . So to sort of drag that time that I had back into the instagram light , it just seems like , like I'm doing things just for just to play the instagram just to get attention does it make any sense count ?
Cam McRaeyeah , like you know , like well there's certain people you see on instagram who are just like look at me , look at me , look at me . Whether , no matter what they're doing , they just do whatever will get the most attention . And you have to , and you have to , right Like that's .
Wade SimmonsYou know , I was kind of thinking about what we're going to talk about and what angle like if it does go on a certain angle , what I'm going to talk about . Right , but I think marketing right now for companies is at an all-time low . I think marketing right now for companies is at an all-time low . The creativity of companies is too easy . Now I look at these marketers at different I'm not going to say any brand specifically because I don't want to get in trouble but what do they do ? They have these athletes and they lean on the athlete's Instagram . How creative is that ? That is zero creativity . There's zero creativity going on in the mountain making industry right now . It's just you know .
Wade SimmonsAnd then I sit in some marketing meetings like , oh yeah , I'm going to do this Instagram takeover or like , whatever . Right , like , that's just like . That's not marketing . That is taking a tool that someone created like a programmer , and now just applying the . You know what I mean . It's like . It's like saying , writing a book and like and microsoft , and uh , microsoft word is getting the . You know , it's like microsoft word , we're gonna publish it on microsoft word . You know what I mean . Like it's . You know , I don't know , it just seems fake to me , like there's no creativity anymore , like the mark you know , it's just instagram stories new . What's your story ? It's like , I don't , I don't know . It's just there's no concrete answer here that I'm trying to get out , but it just seems really weird , does it ? Can you feel me ?
Cam McRaewell , yeah , I mean , I can certainly see that from where you've come from . There's less substance to instagram than being in a feature film or having a spread in a magazine that you hold it in your hand . It's tactile , you can put it on your shelf .
Wade SimmonsLike I like Bernard Kerr . I like his style . I think he has some cool stuff and I was watching the Tasmania , the Tasmania event right now , the hard line , the hard line and he's doing . I was watching his uh , his track walk and stuff . But poor Bernard , he's got to compete with all the other people doing track walks . You know what I mean ? It's kind of like here's my track walk on Instagram . You know , like it's , it's just on Instagram , like it's not , like you know it could be the best thing or the worst thing , but it's just depends on how many followers you have . That's it . It's not whether you do a good job or a bad job , it's more your , your , how many followers you see on the broadcast . That tells you if you do a good job or a bad job .
Cam McRaeYeah .
Wade SimmonsRight , Like someone could do . Someone could only have like 10 followers and do the best job , but no one's going to know that because he only has 10 followers .
Cam McRaeBut everyone started out with 10 followers and they got more followers when they did a good job .
Wade SimmonsWell , is it the good job or is it just something catchy ? I talked to Remy about this , you know , and he's like there's no rhyme or reason . This is what Remy said to me . He's like there's no rhyme or reason to it . Like he says that some videos that he thinks couldn't go viral don't work at all , like he's still trying to figure it out . And they tell you this like something catches , that they don't they count for their finger on it .
Cam McRaeYet well , there and there are two sides of that there are literally things that are interesting to people , and they're also things that are pushed by YouTube . Yeah , and sometimes they align . They don't always align .
Wade SimmonsAnd then the sharing too , the reposts , that kind of like .
Cam McRaeWell , sharing is merit-based , though , Because sharing isn't YouTube deciding that .
Wade SimmonsWell , no , but it's shared on other . If you're a sponsor , oh okay . I'm talking about like an athlete does a video , and then how much reach does Red Bull have ? Okay , if I'm talking about like an athlete does a video , and then how much reach does red ?
Cam McRaebull have , because red bull probably has huge for sure .
Wade SimmonsSo that's not a merit based job by rebel athlete and then it's shared by rebel , you know so . There's so many different angles that kind of come into play that way definitely .
Cam McRaeYeah , it seems like it's more of a meritocracy than than other situations , though I mean in in the day , like imagine mountain biking before um , there was race faces , ufc , like it was kind of an impenetrable world . It was hard to get in there , like to so many good riders . Like would cam mccall ever have been sponsored ? Yeah , we don't know . Tyler clausen we don't know . Yeah , so now you can get a name for yourself based on your output on youtube and instagram and tiktok and whatever platform , based on your skill as a rider and also who you're associated with in terms of filming and things like that I I agree with you on the fact that you , you know , it's like what's the talent shows .
Wade SimmonsYou know like , yeah , america's Got .
Cam McRaeTalent or whatever .
Wade SimmonsIt's like it gives , it's not , you know , handheld like oh , this person is going to be the next star , right , it's kind of you know , anyone has that opportunity , which is awesome .
Cam McRaeYeah , whereas in the past past it was definitely who you know . Yeah , you mean , can you imagine tyler clausen having made it then without the ufc ? I , I don't see it . Maybe I mean it's , but it's possible , but I mean he had talent , right , but yeah for sure . But a lot of those guys are still around and the guys who were you know three or four in that competition , yeah , most of them aren't . Yeah , yeah , which is kind of interesting it's . It's reminds me of when we did our apprentice , you know , it's , it's , it's , I guess , I guess pink bike did their own version of it , but right , it's , there's not the same kind of organized talent competition anymore .
Wade SimmonsWell , yeah , there has . It's always been there Racing .
Cam McRaeYeah , yeah , well racing , yeah , Racing has always been there , but in terms of Organized talent competition , when you boil it down .
Wade SimmonsBut that wasn't going to work for you right , not for Freeride , no , luckily I had the movies . Yeah , yeah , it's's interesting idea what you bring up , like the movie stream , because ideally you want to broadcast it . You know , like television , you want to get the rights and distribute it where these new platforms now are mass distribution , which , yeah , I mean , yeah , it's , it's an interesting world we live in right now so we went off track about the trajectory of your career ?
Cam McRaeYeah , Because there was a time when you were still just riding bikes for a living and sponsors were paying you a wage and collectively that's what you lived on and that has changed over time . Maybe you can talk about that evolution .
Wade SimmonsYeah , I don't know how it all happened . I mean the natural
Entrepreneurial Ventures in Mountain Biking
Wade Simmonsprogression . Like a good friend of mine , keith Stark , he started this company called Switchback Sports and he was an old racer and he turned into , he basically did sales and he represented Rocky and Race Face and Fox Small distributorship , small distributorship here in BC and he basically needed help . You know , because Rocky's a BC brand , lots of dealers in BC and we were friends , we were kind of talking about the possibility like yeah , would you ever want to give me help ? You know , you know I come in , you know like well-respected , you know , of course I breathe Rocky Mountain and race pace and stuff , so it's an easy fit . And you know , like Richie and Hans are kind of going down the athlete path .
Wade SimmonsI kind of recognize that , yeah , this is another good avenue to stay in bikes and sell bikes Ideally . I'm a mountain biker to the core . I love selling mountain biking and pushing mountain biking . That's what I tell people is that I sell mountain biking , the sport . I love the sport , getting out riding your bike in the mountains , a single track . Whether they buy Rocky and Race Face , that's a good thing if they do . But I , you know , I want to raise mountain biking and you know these are the brands that I represent , right ? So bringing more people into mountain biking , I think , is collectively good , you know . And when they buy , you know the products that I represent , that's even better kind of thing , you know .
Wade Simmonsso so you , you are a representative for a sales , representative for rocky mountain and race face , yeah , and other brands fox , race face , marzocchi you know , uh , which I'm kind of a marzocchi athlete as well , so I kind of still ride , I still dabble on the athlete side of things for little videos like pick aparts and , you know , like product videos and things like that right what other sponsorship relationships do you still have ?
Wade Simmonsuh , well , as a peer sponsorship , yeah like , um , like riding , yeah , not me , just like rocky and race face . Basically , no shimano anymore . No , shimano , not really . I mean , I do know the shimano guys and I have a good affiliation with them , but I'm not like , uh , I'm not on the athlete roster and what is that ?
Cam McRaeis that kind of I mean , obviously you had a great relationship with shimano , but is it kind of liberating and then you can just ride whatever you want ?
Wade Simmonswell , no , I still ride shimano . Yeah , yeah , I mean , I I used to get like , uh , I'm kind of in a gray area , you know , because I'm 50 years old and I'm I am a sponsored athlete by rocky , and rocky buys a lot of shimano . So there is relationship , there is like oem deals and stuff and I support shimano , like , yeah , I love shimano stuff from day one and I , you know , I I always got like uh , like sponsored , ship uh components or grupos , you know . So I still get a couple grupos a year to put on bikes and stuff . So , yeah , I am , I am sponsored by shimano but not paid . Well , I guess that is pay in terms of yeah , but no , I mean but it's then it's more of an ambassador role at this point .
Cam McRaeYeah , yeah , which is which is which is cool . It's , then it's , that's more of an ambassador role at this point .
Wade SimmonsYeah , yeah , which is which is which is cool it's uh , I think you just get tired of asking for stuff , right , like I , I'm not a good reptile . I'm not reptilian that way . Like I , I love doing loops . I take this , I take different drive , you know different ways home , because I get tired of looking at the same stuff . You know the same emails every year , like it's just , I hate repetition . I really do , you know . And then these new team you know managers that come in right , you know , oh and you got to start from scratch .
Wade SimmonsWhat do you do ? It's like you know , like how many times have I had that speech right ?
Cam McRaeLike if you don't know , you don't know so you don't have to have those conversations anymore no , I still do , but I , I have less patience for it .
Wade SimmonsYeah , you know , it's like , come for a ride with me , I'll show you . You know , like , if you , you know like you have a vhs machine , no , go buy one and I'll send you a couple of tapes . And once you know , I've been a long time with Shimano , I love the Shimano product and great , joe Lawwell , you know , joe Lawwell , I was dealing with him when I was kind of sponsored , right , yeah , and this is when I was maybe getting some money or more groupos . And he says he told me he's like Japan wants to know what you do . You know , this is like kind of like . You know , maybe times are tough , covid started or something , and he's like , and I'm like , tell them to Google me .
Wade SimmonsYou know , I just like I , you know I'm a formidable mountain bike athlete . Like I go riding . You know what I mean , and I've hit everything on the shore apart from like Vanderhoek's new moves . But you know I mean , and I've hidden everything . I've hidden everything on the shore apart from like vanderhook's new moves . But you know , like , for years it's just like , yeah , like this is what I do . I sell mountain biking . You know , these are the . This is the components that I use people who know , they know , you know and I , you know I go to other places riding . I get . I get recognized like I get recognized now , more like every time shopping centers , grocery shopping , mexico trips with my family . My boy will be like that guy's looking at you , a couple baggage carriers over are you a ?
Wade Simmonscitizen . He's like yeah .
Cam McRaeWhat's it like for Elliot ?
Wade SimmonsHe's got good humor , he just laughs it off . He's like oh dad , I think that guy recognizes you .
Cam McRaeHe's your spotter , he's my spotter .
Wade SimmonsYour security team . He's a funny guy but he lives it with me . I take him on a lot of trips . And again back to the friend thing . He knows famous people too . He knows Vanderham and Stephen Matthews and Chris Winter . And we people too , like he knows van der ham and you know stephen matthews and chris winter and we talked about chris winter trips , you know , and he's like it's not like it's he , just he's living it he's not like you know , he's just he's in the midst of it .
Cam McRaeHe's in the midst of it .
Wade SimmonsI'm sure , like , like good musicians , kids are just like oh yeah , you know , I know , you know , I know that guy right , you know my dad's famous .
Cam McRaeThat's the way it is , yeah , yeah , so , um , and you're also , you've also started a new enterprise with , with keith , that's uh yeah , pretty excited .
Wade SimmonsWell , you know , cam , I'm a bit of an entrepreneur myself . Talking about my brother , you know , like think about what I've done over the years . As you've known , you know , I've started this tour company called Shore Play with Mark Wood back in the day . Yeah , and we had a taste of like money . You know , we did this wicked tour . We did a triple crown tour and we bought a van . I actually bought this , like you know , like 12-passenger van and we filled it and made some money .
Wade SimmonsBut we realized that the amount of work this is back when I was a pro rider too and we realized that the amount of work this is back when I was a pro rider too and the effort that we would have to put in for the money out was going to be too much . We saw that there was potential there , you know , but both Mark and I looked at each other like this is going to take like full time dedication . Are we in for this ? We're like , yeah , not really . You know , we didn't want to like jump into something that serious at that point in time , you know . And then I partnered with Sharon Bader . You know , lilao and Sharon , who are legends on the shore , you know and
Creating a Sustainable Bike Lubricant
Wade SimmonsI love .
Wade SimmonsYou know I love maps . I'm the type of guy like I'll go do the Lynn Loop with Lisa , you know , on a Sunday afternoon and I'll have to stop with the map . She's like why are you looking at the map ? I'm like I like maps . She's like , look , that's where we were . She's like you look at that map 50,000 times . I'm like I know , but I'm like a deer in the headlights . I see a map . I got to look at it . I'm like , oh , I'm the same , I like maps too . Look at the little valleys and look at it . That's a day . It's like I know , but look at it , it's on the map . Anyways , I love maps and loops too . So we did this .
Wade SimmonsYou know locals guide to North Shore , rise . You know , guidebook company , which was awesome . Used to sell them . This was pre-Trail Forks . Yeah , so that was awesome .
Wade SimmonsLike Sharon and I , for a good couple years we produced two books . You know , like Fraser Valley and North Shore , which was awesome . Mtb Trails Co . You know , which is still a company . I believe We'll bust it back . We're talking about doing like a coffee table book or something . Oh , right on , you know , like the best trails on the shore , don't do them all , but you know , I don't know there's ideas to be had . So , guidebook company was awesome .
Wade SimmonsUh , we helped populate trail forks with trail descriptions , which is cool . You know , like , what are we gonna do ? Stop trail forks , like you know , I know . So when trevor may came in and asked like hey , we're doing this , we're like , yeah , I mean that's , let's help you out . You know , that was cool , uh , and then a couple years went by and I started to rep a little bit and , you know , I got to be honest with you .
Wade SimmonsYou know , richie , tippy , andreas , leslie , you know , at some point we're always like we need to create a brand , we need to create a legacy , you know . And for me , you know , at one point all of us were thinking about starting a bike company . You know , let's start a bike company , you know , but it just , you know , in retrospect , maybe we should have done it . We never did , of course , but you know , there's always good ideas , right , you know . And then and then I worked for Keith for a couple of years and you know , keith and I were always , as sales guys , we're kind of like what's next ? What are we doing ? Like , how can we , you know how can we create something ? We always want to create your own thing . It's cool to be creative . To be a sales guy is awesome too . We only rep great products like Raised Face , born Out of Rocky , bc-based Rocky Mountain , bc-based . Most of our brands that we represent are core mountain biking , like Ride Concept Shoes . Shoes came out of a .
Wade SimmonsYou know mountain bike , pure mountain bike from day one . You know Marzocchi I've been on Marzocchi for how many years , you know . Like you know , like you know . And then of course Fox bought them , which is awesome , and Fox suspension . So I'm very mountain bike centric .
Wade SimmonsAnd then Keith and I started talking like yeah , that's's you know , we wanted to bring something to the market , our own product . And uh , and then we kind of realized , like you know , just looking at lube offerings like wd-40 lube or maxima , there's no , there's no lube that really has , there's no , there's no bc . Or or you know , pacific northwest brand . You know , like where we live and that's kind of like maybe we should start a lube company . You know , because you look at the offerings out there , like you know , of course there's Muck Off , but it's so , you know , they have so many products and they're from the UK and so big and we're kind of like ah , muck Off , like just seem like it's overwhelming , you know . And then of course you're like WD4 . Like where does that come from ? And you know finish lines , more road biking . Maxima came from Moto . We've got Moto brands that are coming into mountain bike and one of my sales angles is like how come mountain bike never goes into Moto ?
Wade SimmonsHow come mountain bikers always embrace Moto ? You know , like Moto is the big brother , like the cooler big brother , like , oh , you know , like moto's the big brother , like the cool big brother . Like , oh , you know , think of all the brands and mountain biking that's from moto . You know fox head stuff liat like so many . Like you know , I said fuck it . Like why is the mountain bike going to moto ? Like you know , like we're our own scene . You know , like I am mountain bike centric . You know , like canada made a motorcycle . Well , canada made a motorcycle . Well , cannondale made a motorcycle . Exactly , I mean , they tried , like they the thoughts that I'm having now they had back when they did that you know . But it's , you know , doing a motorcycle is a , it's a bigger project . So we're , like you know , I'm a mountain biker . We're , we're like mountain bike centrics Like you got . I think we can have some traction here . Like a , you know , made in Canada product , sustainable , you know , born out of BC . Like BC is pretty much ground zero for mountain biking .
Cam McRaeI mean , you know there's good mountain biking everywhere , but Whistler the shore like we have deep In terms of volume of good , good mountain biking terrain , it's tough to compete with BC .
Wade SimmonsYou can't beat BC and it's year round . So we said let's look at our options with Bike Loop . So we started vetting a couple bulk oil suppliers in Canada because we had a checklist of where we need to be , like , okay , these guys exist , these guys already exist and they're good . Where do we need to be ? We want the made-in-Canada story , we want to be sustainable , we want a product that works well , you know , as good or better . So it was as simple as doing a Google search like bulk oil supplier of Canada , you know . And all these come up and we email them , contact them , right , customer service line like hey , we're a couple of mountain bikers in BC , you know . You know , thinking about , we have an opportunity here . Guys got back to us , you know , we started walking down the road like , okay , this is what we need , this is what we want .
Wade SimmonsYou know , some players are really big . You know , they wanted , like you know , minimum was too big for us , right , you know ? Or they didn't want to get into the mountain bike space . But of course , a few were like curious , right , and we found this one , these guys who were like , yeah , let's do it . So we collected all the competitors , the top competitors . We sent them . This is like okay , this is where we need to be . This is the base of where Loop exists right now , you know , and they kind of de-engineered it . You know , they have like a laboratory . They can , like you know , like you know , break it down into its components . Yeah , we can bike lube is not like going to the moon or anything like that . Right , you know who we partner with is .
Wade SimmonsThey've been in the lubricant industry for 30 years , you know , based out of Mississauga , ontario . They do food grade lubes , they do industrial lubes , you know , like stuff like that Big player , and they're like , yeah , we can make whatever you want , no problem , you know , and we're like well , we want to be , you know , we want to be like sustainable , this and that . Like they . Like you know , they do food grade lubricants too , which is like edible stuff . You know it has to be , you know , safe for the environment and stuff like that . So , so we started going out . So this is like we launched godfather's garage july 22 .
Wade SimmonsSo this is probably this is like about two years prior to that , you know , late 2000 , late 2020 , in 2021 we started to get samples different weights , you know , and you know , and then , with you know they have a wet , they have a dry lube , a wet . They're like where do you want to be ? What do we want to offer ? Like , okay , you know , like e-bikes are a thing , back then you got to think e-bikes were just kind of coming on board and we're like e-bikes are torquey , like they need , they have a different requirement . You know , like they're torquing all the time , like they're eating bike . We live in vancouver like a tropical rainforest . So we were like , okay , we need a good wet lube and of course we need , you know , we have dry summers as well , like cam loops . We need a dry lube . So we got some . You know we're going through different weights , different viscosities and we got our initial samples and we we had guys . You know we had guys trying it out .
Wade SimmonsSo lynn valley bikes was a big uh supporter of like , of testing our stuff . And then Pat Cox , who works at Rocky Mountain . He was a demo driver . So we had Pat trying the stuff on the demo bikes for a season these bikes are . He was doing the demo tour at Dealers . It was the perfect place to test lube , like different weights and stuff . So he was like , yeah , try this , try that . Yeah , it was awesome . Just , pieces started to fall into place , you know . And then , when we were happy with each you know , each offering as in the dry , the wet and the e-bike we said , okay , this is what we , you know , we'll go for this and we put in a production run . We did our first production and , yeah , we've done another production since , you know . So we launched 22 and now we're kind of working on our second production as well .
Cam McRaeSo things are going well cool , yeah , and what , what , uh ? What makes your lube different than some other loops ?
Wade Simmonswell , there's only so many different . I mean you don't watch about lube , but from I mean do you know what you're about to ?
Wade Simmonsdo Mostly what you've told me there's a few ways you can go . I mean , there's wax-based lube , you know , which is like some kind of solvent , some kind of carrier that carries the wax on and then it kind of you know it kind of evaporates off and leaves the wax there . There's like a petroleum lubricant , so you know fossil fuels-based petroleum , and then we're actually a plant-based oil and that's kind of the three mediums that carry it . We didn't want to base in wax , like we're mountain bikers and wax doesn't really work around here . You know Our terrain is too varied . You know , like you we're too . Our terrain is too varied . You know like you go through . You know we got . We got sand , we got loam , we got creeks . Like how many creeks do you cross when you go for your average ride ?
Cam McRaeYeah , tons of creeks .
Wade SimmonsWell , and the thing about ?
Cam McRaewax takes a long time to apply . It's not . It's not a three minute job .
Wade SimmonsI mean the application . We're like we need something that was like a daily dose . You know I can see wax working well , maybe in like Utah terrain that doesn't have different climates , for sure you know you're not exposing the drivetrain to you know different substances . So , yeah , we're like you know we're out on wax and they're like okay . And then you know we want to be sustainable and stuff like that , so no petroleum . And they're like okay . And then you know we want to be sustainable and stuff like that , so no petroleum . We're like , yeah , auto petroleum . And then what about teflon ? Do we want to add teflon ? Well , teflon is not good . You know , it's a forever chemical , you know . And like things like triflow teflon , I mean we don't , we want to get away from that . Like we're , you know we're .
Wade SimmonsWhen I was thinking about okay , what you know , like way sim , like Wade Simmons make a lube , like oh , here we go , like is this your retirement thing ? You know , like we want to be , we want to have a good lube because A people are going to call me out on it , you know , as in like oh , you're just like cashing out on the lube . Your name you know , so we wanted to have . You know environmental . So you know , as I said , our suppliers , they're very technical , they know what they're doing . So , yeah , so no petroleum . You can basically eat the stuff . I don't know if you'd want to , you know , but there is .
Wade SimmonsI don't want to say downsides , but you know I'm an old bike mechanic . This is when we're talking about the name godfather's garage , because we know , like people are like , why'd you choose godfather's garage ? You know , like garage , like what is that ? I mean , I'm an old bike mechanic . Like that's all . That's really the only job I've ever had .
Wade SimmonsYou know , I'm sure I've worked at pizza hut and sears and sold gore-tex jackets , but really the job that I have for long is I've been a bike mechanic for like 12 years of my life and I'm a pretty good bike mechanic . Like I can build awesome wheels . You know free riding with Schley and Tippy I was the guy that was managing the bikes because , you know , tippy is basically useless as a bike mechanic and Richie he later told me that he kind of knows a few things but he pretended not to so I could work on his bike , which is kind of funny . But I'm a really good bike mechanic .
Launching a Bike Lubricant Line
Wade SimmonsWorked for years with johnny smoke at the cove there in the heyday deep cove bike shop just churning out which was a .
Cam McRaeIt was a garage initially wasn't it . It was like an auto shop .
Wade SimmonsAn old gas station , you know . So if you want to go down the road about the names we're like , okay , I'm known as the Godfather Freeride , right , the Godfather Tippy likes to think that he's the Godfather too , but I'm a bit more known as the Godfather Can't be two .
Wade SimmonsGodfathers , it can't be two Godfathers , you know . And two godfathers it can't be two godfathers . Uh , you know . And then garage , kind of like it . You know like where does the ride start ? In the garage , you know , and I love working on bikes , I love tools , you know . I mean like I keep my bikes running tight .
Wade SimmonsIf you ask people like cory leclerc , a good friend of mine , he runs c4 racing . I don't know if you know c4 , but he trains young kids in bc for downhill racing . He actually uses some of my old hacks on kids . You know , like Wade Simmons said this and Wade Simmons said that and Corey gives me props . Because I used to live with Corey as a kid , like 1920 .
Wade SimmonsWe'd be downtown doing trials and , you know , hitting stair gaps and stuff , and I used to carry a spoke wrench with me and I was like because I keep my wheels tight , you know , because you gotta be on top of maintenance and when you're doing gaps and and case and staircases , like wheels come loose , right . So I would always like , like I , I run a tight bike . If people ever know me like , I like to grab a bike and then kind of hit the front wheel on the ground and no , no , rattles , like I hate , like anything that rattles . And if you get to know bikes , if there's any plane , any bearing , you'll feel like a little , a little rattle and I for sure it's . Like I'm known . I'm a good mechanic . Bottom line is I'm a pretty good mechanic and a Godfather free ride . So Godfather's garage married .
Cam McRaeI like it . And now you guys have expanded into some new lines .
Wade SimmonsYeah , I won't go there yet . And then we need a good logo . When you have a brand , you need a logo . Logo is key . I'm logo-based . So we started thinking about some ideas and then I got this friend of mine , andy , who's a bit of a graphics design . He did the NSMBA logo .
Cam McRaeI know Andy Yep .
Wade SimmonsDid he do something for you guys too ? Nope , no . Anyways , andy , I started talking to Andy because I knew he was a graphics guy and I'm like , hey , we need this logo , right , and he did an awesome job . So it's like GG with two wheels there , you know , it's like gg with uh with two wheels there , you know , it's like I think that , you know , look at that in the back of a sock , black looks cool . It's a sick logo . And he did an amazing job . So we got the name , we got the logo , we got uh .
Wade SimmonsWe launched with three products a dry , a wet , e-bike and a grease . You know , because we need grease . We didn't , we didn't , we didn't invent anything new with grease , it's just a typical 1.5 weight lithium-based grease , you know , kind of like any other grease out there . But , uh , we wanted to have an offering for a shop and then , I don't know if you noticed , but you know a lot of , a lot of companies are pretty blah with their , with their bottles and their graphics . Like we wanted to kind of have more of a . You know , I don't want to say like a salon look , but we wanted some style to it . You know what I mean .
Wade SimmonsLike black , green , nice logo , that could definitely be conditioner in there , for sure that's a handsome looking bottle it does look good and you know , and we did and we kept it funny too like like clean it , send it , lube it , send it . You know , in all our bottles it says lube it , send it . You know , which is kind of like a bit of a play on words , because I used to sign posters with send it all the time . So it's like lube it , send it , clean it , send it . Like . You know , and I'm a bit of a sender , that's what I used to say send it , clean it , send it , send it wash . You know , I can't deny that , I'm not . You know , we have , like we're not pulling any wool over anyone's eyes . This stuff is , it's good , I guarantee it . You know , I'm like I sent it , like it's , yeah , it's just , it's going to be awesome .
Wade SimmonsYou know , we're just gaining momentum Back to like new product . So we opened up with four skews , a grease and three lubes , uh . Then we just brought this , uh , this bike wash out concentrate . So you know , like keith and I are going okay , what's next ? We're going to expand the line , like we're not going to be known as a lube company . You know , like , if , if , if , any dealers want to give you some space , you need to have a full offering .
Wade SimmonsYou know , when you're just like a small lube , it's like how , how much market penetration you're going to have with just like three lubes and a grease right , it's like okay , so we're expanding our line with , you know , kind of like a skew a year . So you know 22 , 23 . We brought out the bike wash , which is a concentrate . So we have a one liter bottle here that makes 10 liters . So you know I want to be pompous but this kicks the competition out of the water because the other competitors are four to one so they only make four years . So this is more concentrated , it's got a little loam scent to it and it's about alone .
Cam McRaeIt's 100% biodegradable you can also use it as a perfume perfume .
Wade SimmonsI don't know if you want no Piney perfume .
Cam McRaeYou know where this is made . I believe it's made in Canada .
Wade SimmonsIt's made in Delta BC . So again back to like trying to find a bulk soap supplier . We like basically emailed a bunch of like bulk soap guys .
Cam McRaeFound this guy in Delta and he's a mountain biker .
Wade SimmonsOh , I knew you're gonna say that dude , he , he is this , uh , this chemical engineer that uh makes soap for car washes and hotels . You know , he just has this like little , uh little industrial area that he mixes up soap and he's a mountain biker , if you believe it . He's like , he's like I would love to work , like yes , like let's do it chemical engineer . And and he's like , yeah , let's , let's do a mountain bike soap right on . Yeah , so he , this is made in delta bc . That's really cool . Yeah , his name , his name is don . You can I'll introduce him to you . He's a rad dude , yeah , and we got him , of course , we got him a power play , you know , because he was on another company's bikes . We're like , hey , if you're going to be making soap for the Godfather , you've got to be on Rocky Mountain . So we got him hooked up with some Rocky Mountains . You know he's a family guy out in Delta and he's got his ride group that they ride everywhere .
Cam McRaeThat's really cool .
Wade SimmonsDon . He's a really good guy and get this . Don is also making our new one , degreaser . Oh , so we have a Degreaser being mixed up right now . This bottle is look at that sample bottle there for you . So that's a bio-Degreaser Sweet yeah .
Cam McRaeSo that's for next year Again sustainable , made in Canada .
Wade SimmonsThis is gonna be made in delta too . So think about this camp like if you're a bike shop here , like getting behind the story , you know the shore rider made in canada . You know , sustainable it's , it's a good story , like we're really excited about it's , it's awesome uh , are you into any other markets yet ?
Wade SimmonsYeah , we are . So we have a couple of reps in Canada . We started , you know , from day one . We had Rubin in Alberta , angela Fever in Ontario . So Ontario , alberta , two big markets . They're rocky reps as well .
Wade SimmonsBuddies of ours are like , hey , let's get behind this . We're like , yeah , let's do this .
Launching a Quality Bike Lube Line
Wade SimmonsYou know new dealers , you know it's been hard , it's been challenging because people , you know , like big distributors , it's just adding to the cart , right , you know , it's easy , right ? They're like , ah , I need some brake pads and a couple rotors and some bike lube . So , you know , we thought it would be maybe easier than what it is to break in . You know , just because bike shop dealers don't have time to like , go to one single site and order stuff they need , like they need to go to the Costco and get everything at once . You know , and we're doing it privately in Canada , you know , so we're not going to associate with a big distributor of bicycle stuff . So it's been more , you know , like , feet on the ground , knock on the doors like , hey , here's the story and I like to tell this part is that no one , no one was waiting for wade simmons to make lube .
Wade Simmonsright , it wasn't like oh finally , like wade simmons made bike lube . You know it's kind of like it's . It's like toothpaste cold gay crafts . Like you know it's goddamn bike lube at the end of the day . It's like you know it's not , it's not , it's not revolutionary , but it's it's goddamn bike lube at the end of the day . It's like you know it's not revolutionary , but it's got a story which is awesome .
Wade SimmonsAnd you just got to win people over , right , because they've been using brand X for so long . Like , well , I've been on this brand and you're like , well , you just try this and you know so we did a lot of sampling out and we have our shops behind us , you know . Like you know we're big in Kamloops too , at the district , because you know we wanted Kamloops I grew up at Kamloops but we wanted Kamloops . You know to use our dry lube and you know it's like they love it , it's working good . So it's been hand-to-mouth kind of the first couple of years , as every business is . But you know like when you start peeling back the pages and stuff , we deliver , you know , and we're in for the long haul . It's not like we're in and out , we're not going to just grow this . And you know like we want to have a good offering Like we got here , check this out .
Wade SimmonsThis is our latest and greatest Tubeless tire plugs . You can kind of see where we're going , right . Yeah , godfather's Garage . So that is a Some bacon strips Bacon strips in there , two different sizes . Of course you know to be competitive like that's more bacon strips than any other competitive offers . It's going to come in that neat little tin . Look how rad that tin is . That's great , that's pretty cool . This is where Godfather's wants to be .
Cam McRaeWe want to be like we want to do quality stuff .
Wade SimmonsYou know , I look around your garage here , like you see that old little pullout chest thing like patina , like that's , that's rad , that's my grandfather's dude , exactly I want , I want that to be handed down , right , you know , I want that to sit on an old bench like that and like get scratched and dented , like look , how rad that is that's great no , I know .
Wade SimmonsSo that's that's where we live . We don't want to be like turn and burn . Uh , I gave you a spray bottle with this aluminum spray bottle , yep , you know . So we have . So our our bike wash , we sell a spray bottle for it to use a foamy spray bottle which is aluminum . You know , recyclable and stuff like that . You know . No more plastic we want to get away from you can't really get away from , like the bottles for wash . You know they can't be metal or anything , but you know , but the the reasonable that's great .
Wade SimmonsYeah , I mean , you're not going to lose it either you know , a couple , like when we were , when we were talking about where we want to be in the industry , like to me , a couple , a couple companies stand out like brooks . You know , you see brooks , saddles and stuff , kind of like that oral leather steel . That's where , that's where we want to go . We want to make quality stuff . Uh , my dad , you know my dad's an old cowboy , like he's . He's into guns and and cowboy stuff and cowboys . It's all about leather things that last a long time , right ropes , and you know , like that's that's where we want to live is like we want to have a cool style garage . You know you think about old garages , gas stations that have the old tools and stuff like that . Yeah , it's really exciting , it's so fun .
Cam McRaeI really think you should do a cologne cologne . I don't want to wear cologne no , it smells like a garage , though it smells like garage with the wood floor and , yeah , exactly stuff come out with the scent and a bit of loam . You could put a little bit of loam in there and maybe some pine I do like , uh , two-stroke smoke perfect two-stroke . That's pretty good .
Cam McRaeThat's a pretty good name for a cologne two-stroke smoke cologne so one of the things we're going to talk about in the beginning was the state of free ride , and I assume you have some thoughts about that , the state of free ride .
The Essence of Freeriding
Wade SimmonsWell , I would say that free ride is alive right now , with all the teams coming out and stuff like that . Like free riding is hot . It's always been hot in my world . I mean you know . But you know , what do you want me to say here , cal ? I don't know . I thought .
Cam McRaeI thought that was what you , you had opinions about it . I mean , you've got opinions ?
Wade Simmonsabout a lot of things . Discuss it about the . You know everyone's just doing the same thing so that would okay .
Cam McRaeThat was your , that was your thesis about . It was just that it's it's . There's maybe not as much originality as there was well , you can .
Wade SimmonsYou know that freeride is cool when , when the hard line comes up , remember the hard line uk . How long it's been what ? Five years , six years now I'm not sure how long , quite a while , though , for sure .
Wade SimmonsSo . So you got the dh racers that are kind of aging out but they still want to add something to it , the athertons right , you know , and then , and then g doing his big stuff , like g is great , I love that guy . I only had a . I've only met him a few times in my life . But that one line they did a red bull mirror , that one step down to , uh , step down to wall landing like that , that's the shit that I love . You know , g will always burn a place he'll always have a place in my memory is like dude , he's like that dude , he's like that's new Right . Wasn't it someone else's line ? It was someone else's first . No , I think he built it . Someone else hit it , though they landed it .
Cam McRaeOh , this is terrible that we can't remember Kelowna guy .
Wade SimmonsRomaniacs yeah , I think it was his line first . Oh , might be , I might have that wrong . Yeah , I believe . Yeah , I believe I mean steve was legendary too , you know , yeah , but but that line is cool , yeah , super cool . That's what moves me is like definitely shit like that , you know , uh . And then you see them do the hard line . So they're marrying dh racing with freeride , which is cool , I mean , as a freerider to the core , you get , I got , I love that , like I . I'm like , oh , yeah , the hard line , that shit's cool , gnarly .
Cam McRaeDH .
Wade SimmonsThe fact that they time it , you know . I mean take it or leave it , right , you know .
Cam McRaeIt would be a terrible judged event , though .
Wade SimmonsNo , no , I know , I know , but so they're kind of like they're just doing big jumps and stunts and racing down it , right yeah .
Cam McRaeAnd so they're just doing big jumps and stunts and racing down it right , yeah , and Jackson won it last year .
Wade SimmonsI know that's awesome , he's such a ripper .
Cam McRaeOh my God , Did you know that he was going to be a racer ?
Wade SimmonsNo .
Cam McRaeI always thought he was going to be a freerider , yeah yeah , because he's always doing tricks and stunts .
Wade SimmonsYou know that you have to be a free rider . Yeah , yeah , because he's always doing like tricks and stunts . You know that you have to validate yourself in racing Because the race like me growing up as a free rider , like I raced BMX I don't know if you knew this .
Wade SimmonsYeah , I definitely knew that I went to the Worlds in 85 for Canada , for BMX I'm life racing BMX and I at a young age I was just like I realized that racing , racing , is funny because you got to be hungry . Like , like , I'm not a pack filler . Like I , for people who go out , like they see it as an event . Like , oh , I'm going to go do the race , it's like I'm only going to race if I'm going to be a contender . Right , like I'm a terrible , I'm a terrible racer because I'm too competitive so I can't put myself in that . Because it's like , if I'm paying money to go race , I'm going to fucking race . It's like , you know , I don't want to be a pack filler . Like , I am not a pack filler . I can't say that anymore clearly .
Wade SimmonsSo when I was growing up and I would be an Oakley athlete hanging out with , like Cedric Gracia and Brian Lopes Right , you know , here I am this free rider hanging out with these guys Think about the shit that I used to like you know , like they would like tear strips off me , just like hanging out with them on these photo shoots . But they realized that I could ride because racing is like it's a proving ground . Right , if you're a fast racer , you're a fast racer , that's where you live . You're like you're proven . You're like , oh , I can crack the top 10 .
Wade SimmonsFreeriding doesn't have that , they don't have a proving ground . It's like , oh , he did a drop , Like maybe he got lucky and landed it right . That's why I always used to try to hit drops a couple of times , like the Mer times , like the merino valley gap , you know , like the one you know probably the most iconic line I ever did . I did it twice , did it once without the truck and then once with the truck . You know , and that's kind of like , it's like had it on lockdown didn't bender .
Cam McRaeDo it twice too , but he crashed once and he landed once twice yeah he didn't land it . I thought he landed . I thought he landed once because you told him to ride land on his front wheel or something no , no , he never landed it , I thought he did .
Wade SimmonsHe went back and broke his hand bar , oh shit . So he was there with me on the film shoot and he crashed , concussed himself . He went back separately , landed , broke and the bar broke . Oh I know , poor guy , poor bender , yeah , poor bender , uh , you know . So , anyways , I used to hang out with like Lopes and Gracia there and they were like I think they kind of realized that well , like freeriders might have a bit of like oh , at first they were sort of dismissive of you .
Wade SimmonsYeah , totally 100% . You know racers , racers like to go fast . You know that's their idea . When you're racing , it's all about speed , where me I'm like I could give a shit about getting down the hill the fastest , right , you know I'm I'm a line guy . I like have the most fun , have the most fun . Yeah Well , yeah , it's just . It's not even about like I don't know if it's fun , I just it's my own personal challenge to do things Like oh , I could hit that gap or I could tag that tree or , holy shit , I could like air up to that rock and down . You know I always like to look at things differently . I'm not into it to beat . You know racing is egotistical when you think about it , because you're there to win and you want to be the best .
Cam McRaeYou want to beat everyone else , yeah .
Wade SimmonsYou want to beat everyone else . But freeriding is not like that . It's a it's a personal challenge , Right , that's what's . That's what's cool about freeriding .
Cam McRaeThat's why freeriders get along better than racers do .
Wade SimmonsYeah , maybe I think so . Because even at Rampage , which is obviously a competition , yeah , Everyone pretty much gets along , Everyone , because it's a bit survival . Not to say that DH racing is not survival . It's the gnarliest out there , but there's that level of like . You know it's like I'm going to beat you and you want to beat people . It's like racing . You know I'm more about the experience . Does that make any sense ? Yeah , totally .
Cam McRaeBut I mean that's fun for you , isn't it ? Oh , 100% fun , yeah , for you , isn't it ? Oh , 100% fun ? Yeah , yeah , because you're . I mean , you were just saying that I don't know if it's fun , but the challenge you .
Wade SimmonsYou get gratification when you figure something out and you get gratification when you put it together and it works out well , you know , and when you , when you learn that and kind of like , when you accept that challenge rather than just beating people . There's always got to be a loser a loser in a race .
Cam McRaeYou know , yeah , I I want to finish up and not take up too much of your time , but I want to end on something that , um , I've noticed about you before , but having been on a ride with you recently , I noticed it a lot . Um , do you think what is your level of enjoyment in mountain biking now compared to other times in your life ?
Wade SimmonsYou know , I've reached a space camp where I'm like I hate again . Like I said , I hate doing things over again . I get bored . Easy , so to do the repetition . I like things new , you know it . Easy , so to do the repetition . I'm I like things new , you know . And , and I find it challenging .
Wade SimmonsNow , mountain biking because that's why I love the e-bike I want , I want to throw it out there right now is that the e-bike breathed new life into mountain biking for me , because I ridden the shore since , you know , mid-90s , yous I mean , I moved down here in 91 , and that's how I met the people riding the shore . There was no mass back then . You just ride the shore and you bump into people . You're like , hey , here's my phone number , no cell phones . And then things evolve and I like a challenge . I'm a technar , we love the technar . Us , you know , like janky tech trails . We spend so long trying to make those smooth . I like the flow and fun , but really the tech is where I live . And then the introduction of the e-bike just allows me to explore more .
Wade SimmonsBack to like , I'm an explorer , I like to do new things different . So on the pedal bike , you know , back to like I'm an explorer , I like to do new things different . So on the pedal bike , you kind of like you're a bit limited , unless you have a whole day . If I had every day for six hours ago riding , I'm sure I would like a pedal bike more than an e-bike . But just the fact that I have two kids now and a working wife and launching a brand and working I have two kids now and a working wife and launching a brand and working it's the e-bike gives me the ride that I want to ride in an hour and a half .
Wade SimmonsYou know I have an hour and a half . My wife is like at home it's 3.30 . I can go do a quick lap before dinner , right , you know , it's like . I look at my pedal bike , I look at my e-bike and I'm like I can go anywhere on this bike or I can do the same hour and a half lap that I've been doing for 15 years on this bike . It's like what do you think I'm going to choose ? I'm going to choose , I'm going to choose e-bike . I'm going to go ride over to seymour from london valley .
Wade SimmonsYou know what I mean find different routes to get there find different routes to get there and I'm as a free rider , I I don't ride an e-bike to make it easier . I ride you like to make it harder . That's what people don't understand about e-bikes is that they're like oh , I'm not , I'm not there yet with e-bike . I'm like what do you mean ? Oh , the fitness is like . No , it's like it is totally different than what you expect . Like it is . You know you've been on our rise like we , we cry , we session things . We're like we're like riding each other into the ground . You know it's , it's , but it's , it's like . You know it's . Uh , it's like with more megs or more gigs . You know everyone like computers or microphones or anything that we want . You know our gopros now that have like or 4k , 6k , 27k tvs , whatever . You know it's like that's where it's going . You know like it's uh , I just love it how people don't like e-bikes on one side of things , yet they're forward technology on everything else in there .
Cam McRaeThat's interesting for sure . Yeah , there's certainly lots of purists and I I was certainly one of them them when I was earlier to mountain biking and I think I was not an early adopter for anything suspension or brakes or anything . I was resistant to everything . But when I became part of the mountain bike media , I had to try new things and that's made me love new stuff . That's awesome . Try new things and that's made me love new stuff . That's awesome and put me up back on the on the front foot in terms of that's I'm not a retro grouch anymore .
Wade SimmonsWell , you know , I still like retro stuff , like you know . Like there's no , there's no black and white , that's what people don't get . It's like either e-bike or not . It's like I still love my pedal bike , right and , and I ride with my son a lot on my pedal bike because I like to see in his eyes now , you know , and him experiencing that . And I love epics . You know , I love going to chill cotons . I love going to manning park , like if I , if I can do it , if I had all day for an eight hour epic , that's , that's what I love , you know , like a bit bit of chill coton pedal bike , but you have time yeah , for sure you know it all comes down .
Wade SimmonsIt's not . I mean , it's not as simple as black and white . Like you know , e-bikes are not e-bikes . It's like it's all good if you're in the woods and you're riding a mountain bike , it doesn't matter , it's just having fun . Having fun . It's fun . Or we sell mountain biking . How awesome is that ? Totally .
Cam McRaeWell , thank you very much for your time , Wade . I appreciate talking to you . You were the very first interview I ever did working in mountain bike media . Yeah , like in the Café du Soleil . The part one , part two .
Wade SimmonsIn your 2000 ? I pull those stories out because I pull images sometimes from those . Oh , right on that's cool .
Cam McRaeYeah , yeah . So thank you very much and , uh , it's been cool getting to know you over the years as well .
Wade SimmonsYeah , cam , I mean I appreciate it . Thank you for the time . Uh , you know pushing the brand and I'm happy to to see you being successful . You know northshoremountainbikingcom it's awesome . Still at it , we're at it .
Cam McRaeLook at us crazy , killing it 24 .