Enhance Your Practice Podcast
Enhance Your Practice Podcast
EP79 WPS Remix Edition: Travel and Plastics
Thanks for tuning in to the WPS Remix Edition of the Enhance your Practice podcast brought to you by the ASPS Women Plastic Surgeons Forum. We hope you enjoyed our coverage of the WPS Symposium and gained valuable insights from our guests. Remember to subscribe to our podcast, check out our other episodes on your preferred platform or download them directly from ASPS EdNet. Stay tuned for more exciting updates and expert advice to help you enhance your practice.
Speaker 2:Welcome everyone to the WPS Remix. I am Dr Ashley Amalfi. I'm a board-certified plastic surgeon in Rochester, new York, and I'm so excited about this topic travel and plastic surgery. I'm joined here today by Carolyn De La Cruz, sarah Dickey and Kristen Broderick. All of these incredible female surgeons are experts in travel plastic surgery, but that means a little something different to each of them, so I'm going to go through the line and let everyone introduce themselves, and then we're going to dive into their specific topics.
Speaker 3:So, dr Dela Cruz, Hi guys, so nice to see everyone here. Everyone, I'm Carolyn Dela Cruz. I'm from the University of Pittsburgh. I'm a breast microsurgeon and now lymphatic surgeon. I love it, thanks to my travel and learning, yeah, and so happy to be here and with all this amazing panelists.
Speaker 2:When I think about travel, I think of all your amazing travel pictures. So I'm so excited. I wish people could see them on a webinar, but they can't. But I think when you explain some of the incredible travel that you've had and what that's brought to your practice, I think people will be able to see it in their minds. I agree, I agree. Next I have Dr Sarah Dickey.
Speaker 4:Hi everyone. I'm Dr Sarah Dickey. I am an ASPS member, board-certified plastic surgeon and I'm in private practice outside of Chicago, in Morton Grove, illinois. I have been involved in international mission work which I think most people think of when they think of travel and plastics for the past 13 years since I was in residency, and so I'm excited to talk a little bit about that with you guys today.
Speaker 2:I know I'm excited. It feels like every time I see you at a meeting or something, you're already always like coming from one of those trips and it just kind of baffles me how many things you can fit into a busy schedule. So I'm excited to hear you talk a little more about that. And last, on our call, I have Dr Kristen Broderick. Dr Broderick, hi.
Speaker 5:Thank you so much, ashley, for in this. This is really kind of a fun topic. I'm Kristen Broderick. I have been in practice for almost 15 years, I think. I was first in private practice and I've been in academics now for almost 10. I do mostly breast reconstruction, microsurgery and some cosmetic construction microsurgery and some cosmetic and I'm excited to talk about this panel because I think it's Mai took sort of the perspective of patients traveling to me as opposed to me traveling to do plastic surgery or sharing that, because I think that's something that we, you know, being coastal, we sort of take for granted that people will and do travel. But I think that there's a lot of the US where patients you know like to travel for plastic surgery. It's like a really big deal, so how do you make that easy for patients?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and do it well and, you know, in a repeatable way. So I'm excited to dive in and our last panelist is Dr Vinaya Rednam. All right, you guys, I am going to start with a question for Dr Dela Cruz. But for all of these questions, I want you guys to kind of dive in and if you feel like it pertains to you, you know we're all welcome to chat about all of these things. But for Dr Dela Cruz, you know people are traveling more to learn. You know it's just like so easy to get on a plane and go anywhere and learn from an expert, and you know we're of the mindset that we learned everything in our training and then that was it. But, like, lifelong learning in plastic surgery is really revolutionary. So, like, what's your, what's your philosophy on traveling and its benefits for education for plastic surgeons?
Speaker 3:So when you asked me to speak about my experience with traveling to learn a new skill, it occurred to me I thought well, just don't, doesn't everyone do that? And because the reality is like you said, we graduate, we learn, we've such open minds when we're in residency we think that there's everything's infinity. And then sometimes what happens is when you're in a practice, you're new, you stick to what you know and time after time, sometimes I'll lead you to just doing what you know and you sort of get a little trapped. And this can be a little bit. You know, plastic surgeons are very creative by nature and you may see at a meeting people or just sort of talk to your colleagues and say what are you doing? Yeah, sometimes you find that people are just doing the same old thing, and so if you feel that sort of surgical wanderlust that I sort of refer to, you may think like, hey, what's out there? And how can I be a part of it? Yeah, it's not for everyone.
Speaker 2:I think it's true, I think those little conversations at meetings are a good idea If you hear people. Sometimes you go out to dinner and you're like, hey, are you using this implant? Are you? You know, what have you found? What do you like and like I think we're all hungry for that, so like, even if people don't think that they like want to travel for that like. But when you travel for meetings like we're in, we're at PSTM, I always feel like sometimes, like the conversation sidebars I have with like all of you guys are just as helpful and useful in my practice as the big, as the big presentations that we go see. And so like, how did you take it from like those smaller interactions to like actually getting on a plane and going halfway around the world?
Speaker 3:Right and so exactly Right. So if you meet somebody at a meeting or read an article or just happen to say like, wow, they're doing that, how do you really translate that to action? And so there's a couple and it's not actually easy, because I mean, take me, for example, and I talk about this in you know, I've been doing what I do for a very long time. I don't even really want to say I'm an expert in breast reconstruction, which is to be a student really requires a little bit of curiosity, like a whole lot of humility and basically a little bit of an open mind to say I'm curious and I'm going to reach out. And so step number one is be curious and put yourself out there, which requires a little bit of you know, like I said, humility and vulnerability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, would you say. You're like a naturally curious person, carolyn you're like a naturally curious person, carolyn.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm naturally curious, but I'm also a little bit, maybe not. I'm not going to run up to somebody and say, oh my God, like what are you using? I don't know this, especially when you get a little bit older. It might be I'm not saying I'm old, but I'm just saying when you get a little bit in your practice. But then you get curious and say, well, geez, what laser are you using? What technique are you using? What kind of like chairs do you? I mean, there's so many things that you can learn in people's inside practice and it is challenging to approach somebody. And so the first question is you know, who do you? Who would you approach and how would you sort of crack that egg?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm curious to all the other panelists if any of you have ever you know, post-graduation post like all your actual training on paper sort of actually traveled to see another surgeon and to learn from another, you know, adult surgeon, attending surgeon.
Speaker 4:I have, um and this is outside of going to a foreign country and operating at the same bed with another surgeon, which is in itself really cool, because there's little tips and tricks that you don't even know. You're don't know until until you're with somebody, and that's always fun. But we can talk about that later. Yeah, but even in my own city, um, when I went out on my own, I you know I had done a lot of facial reconstruction but I hadn't done a true facelift in a couple years since residency and I thought, you know, I would love to just watch someone do it and not a video. And so I called up a colleague.
Speaker 4:And it's harder to do it now in hospitals, because hospitals, surgery centers they don't let guests come really anymore. Even reps are selling their wares in the operating room can't get in. So it was easier to go to someone who was private and had their own operating room. But it was great. I spent a whole day just watching them do facelifts and it was just so helpful to be able to ask questions and things, to ask why you're doing it this way, why wouldn't you do it this way? You know, it was just amazing in my mid-career why you're doing it this way. Why wouldn't you do it this way?
Speaker 2:You know it was just amazing in my mid-career my first, like you know, I would say like I don't know handful of years in surgery.
Speaker 2:You know, once I had my feet under me I did it too, and I would like kind of like Carolyn saying like I would talk to people at meetings and like there were people who I knew like had so many clinical pearls that I like couldn't extract it out of them just over dinner, like I needed to watch them and see all of this little stuff, you know, and in a certain point of practice it's not the big stuff, it's the little stuff. And so I have definitely taken a handful of trips to see other surgeons, especially if there's like something a little new or a new device or a new technique, a new machine that I wanted to see sort of in practice and not just, like you said, like a video or a demo. And so I found it to be really, really useful and it's great to build those bonds with different virgins. You know, it's like we don't really ever get that and it's kind of fun Like I wish I could be fine.
Speaker 3:It's super fun. And the thing that you touched upon too, ashley, is that, um, and also Sarah, commented, like you, learning these little tricks, that you want people. That's the shocking thing that I found in all of my um, all the places that I've gone, is that people want to share their knowledge. And if you're teaching residents, yes, it's great, you're teaching medical students broad strokes, but when you have an experienced surgeon and you just show them, um, just the niftiest little thing that you've developed, like, um, you will learn that, um, that they want to show it to someone who can appreciate, yes, little pearls that you, you remember and that has just like. I remember I was in japan and, um, uh aki hayashi, who's an amazing like lymphatic surgeon, he showed me this little tiny trick, how to just retract, and I use it now and every time I use it, I think of him and it brings a smile to my face.
Speaker 2:All that stuff. Yeah, it's like we can be nostalgic for all these other giants, not just our. You know the people who trained us, I think too.
Speaker 5:You know I tell my residents this and granted, you know I'm I'm teaching them from one perspective, but even the way I was trained to do breast reconstruction is completely different from the way I do it right now.
Speaker 5:And doing doing sensory restoration is nerve graft like that didn't exist when and I don't know when I was a resident, and so I I always tell them that you know, whatever you're going to be doing in your practice, there's a pretty decent chance that you're not going to learn it in residency. If the technology, the tricks, are going to come into existence once you're actually in in your actual practice doing the things that you do every day, and you're going to need to be able to learn new things, add new skills and try to figure out how to do it and how better to do that than by working with people that you know who are the best in the business. You know I did some local travel. I haven't traveled as extensively as Carolyn, but I found it really, really helpful just to sort of see other people's experience and be able to answer those questions.
Speaker 2:It's so cool, you guys. It's kind of crazy to think about. Like I never really thought about all the things I do, Like I suppose I learned like the basics of what I do in residency, but not really, you know, it's almost all different. That's wild. Are we just old?
Speaker 2:I don't know you have experience sarah, you know, tell us a little more about the trips you take, because they're more of like mission trips, but they're not, um, they're not, they're not. They're a little different than other mission trips I've had, you know, friends who go on and participate in. So tell us a little bit about yours and how you got connected in that, because I think that's there's probably a lot of people who are interested in that and don't even know where to get started.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I think I'm a little bit lucky and when you say mission trips, it's one trip. I go on the same trip every year, every year basically made some connections there and started going on a yearly trip to fix cleft lips and made his relationships with the oldest hospital actually in the Caribbean, padre Bieni in Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic, and so and it just continued because he kept going and made those connections and work with the Peace Corps, which is in country, you know, year round, and the Peace Corps volunteers are there for three, about three years on average, and so they would come to the trip. We would see the same Peace Corps volunteers year after year. So it provided some amount of continuity that I think does not happen on on a lot of trips, although maybe it's becoming more common, but I can't say this is the one, but that it's the benefit. So we would be able to stage surgeries, we'd be able to see patients over and over again, and definitely modernization of technology Matt Greaves, who's a surgeon down in Houston at Houston Children's. He keeps in contact with his patients through WhatsApp and texting pictures, and so the nice thing about it is there's an ability to maintain sort of a continuity of care that I think historically has not been there in one of the criticism mission trips.
Speaker 4:So anyway I got involved in it when I was a resident. The residency program I was in provided one aspect of this trip, which was specifically an ear trip for Microsha and Anosha reconstruction, and so I got involved at that point when I was a chief resident, and then I just kept going every year because they needed people and I really enjoyed it. It gave me a real sense of, you know, sort of giving back. It was just very rewarding and also I was wanted to do peds. At that point I was really focused on peds and and my practice was sort of slow when I was young and it was nice to go down and utilize the techniques I trained in and and hone them in with people who had really significant disease processes. You know that you don't always see in the US.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. How about the rest of the team on here? Has anyone else done mission trips or, you know, done them on a regular basis? I feel like it's more and more common that you know they're part of programs and training and there's just so many opportunities.
Speaker 4:They can be hard to find. I'll be honest, I think a lot of the more academic surgeons who are in sort of craniofacial programs may be able to like know the network of them a little bit more. I think historically there are a lot of craniofacial surgeons who went into private practice and wanted to keep giving back would start their own programs. But I don't. Those old, that sort of older generation or model is not as common anymore. I do think a lot of the trips now are a lot more organized, which is good and safer in many ways.
Speaker 2:And how about, like you know, formalizing training, like I hear a lot of travel where they actually go to a country and then also teach the native surgeons how to, how to handle some of the, the congenital stuff that they're seeing Like. Was that part of your program in any way? And you know what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I think, I think definitely. I mean it's sort of you know you want to. You want to teach the fishermen to fish? Right, you are the teach the village.
Speaker 2:I love all your analogies.
Speaker 4:There's a responsibility, I think, on the part of any mission work to share your knowledge and ability so that communities can begin to care for themselves as much with what resources they have. When we went down to the Dominican, one of the wonderful things was one of our partners was the chief of anesthesia at the hospital we went to. So we actually did a lot of anesthesia training, which was awesome. So our anesthesiologist would go down there and we had residents in every room, you know, learning just amazing tips and tricks from our anesthesiologists, and I'll tell you, they were so wonderful to go down there with people I really trusted to take care of these little kids that we didn't always have history on. So, um, we did a lot of teaching with the anesthesia um residents and plastic surgery residents would come to us. It was less formalized, um, but a lot of students. They would just show up and we would always welcome uh residents into the room and teach as much as we could.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure, kristen, I want to ask you a little bit more about what your practice has evolved into, because I know a lot of people are traveling to you at such an incredibly esteemed institution for breast reconstruction and you know again, like when we all trained, I don't know that that was really common at all, but it is becoming incredibly common for people to travel, um, not just for cosmetic surgery. So you know, what kind of changes have you seen over the last five years? Really?
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's a great question, Ashley, and you know I was trained in breast reconstruction and you know microsurgery and deep flaps and there's a lot of people that do that. But what I was struck by was you know you get most of your primary referrals are going to be internal, you know from breast surgeons and your area people you can operate with together. But I found that I was getting patients coming to me from, you know, outside of the metro area for revision work.
Speaker 5:And and I, I, I think around the same time, there was sort of a shift in how a lot of the technical aspects of what we were doing we started, you know, not lifting up the muscle as much anymore, and so I, I must've I joke that I'm on some website somewhere because I started getting a lot of women who had had reconstruction, you know, eight, 10, 15, 20 years before, and we're really unhappy with some of the changes that happen over time and I, I adjusted some, adjusted some things and did some revisions and did a lot of plane changes and then all of a sudden I just started getting more and more of these patients and I think what we do as plastic surgeons we have such a broad, broad scope, but at least in the world of breast reconstruction, I feel like it's almost like a chronic disease that that is just going to be and that's not a disease in a bad way, but just it's a part of woman's history and as they age and change over time, so will aspects of their reconstruction that need to be harmonized.
Speaker 5:So at some point I started giving some talks and our, our institution, started putting them on their website and I think one thing that connected a lot with patients was hearing other patients' stories, finding a little bit of themselves in what I was describing and the challenges that people had, because when you come to a big academic institution it can be very daunting, it can feel very sterile.
Speaker 2:Not personal Not personal.
Speaker 5:We are not known for being the big warm hug, and so I think it helps to have yourself out there in a personal way and to tell stories in a way that people can connect with. In a way that people can connect with, and I enlisted several of our friends or sorry, my patients in the process to help with that, to help tell that story as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really compelling. I mean so really. You were marketing what you had to offer and it was so unique and personal compared to everyone else's experience with breast reconstruction that they feel compelled to come to you. How about results? Like, are you able to like with your academic affiliation? Are they are? Do you think patients are like seeing results or before and afters and you know how? Has that worked or been a hard part of this whole process?
Speaker 5:I think that's a pain point for us still that we're actually finally making some inroads. You know, and for good reasons. You know, at a large institution there's always concern for patient privacy, confidentiality and then the potential liability. So I've had to work with our, with our legal and our compliance groups to sort of come up with something that is and it's in process and hopefully will be coming on live soon. But it has helped actually partnering with other departments that have similar needs for before and after, because the reality is what we do in plastic surgery and also in, you know, for our facial plastics, otolaryngology colleagues, dermatology, anybody who does anything that's going to want a before and after.
Speaker 5:Patients are seeing that in other social media TikTok, instagram and they need that as an assurance. And I think to make yourself marketable and to be comparable, you have to at least offer that. But it does become. When you're in your own practice you can make a lot of the rules yourself and sort of sort through it. But at a large institution I really have to make sure that we're dotting all the I's and crossing all the.
Speaker 1:T's.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, what a clever way you know, like I think this is great advice for anyone who's looking for how can I, within the boundaries of my institution or my employer, still advertise to people or let the public know what it is that I do and why they should come to me? And so what a clever way you know, with those stories and those videos, that you've been able to show people what you do without showing them. So that's amazing.
Speaker 3:You know what I would. So, kristen, as you were talking, and then you reminded me because you brought up all the barriers that you had and you know all the sort of like logistics and realities, and then that's the whole point of travel for whatever it is that you want, or either vice versa for patients, the idea is that we are we there are no boundaries right and like our what, what we want to get out of our lives or our practices, and with our skills and who we want to reach. There are no boundaries and we can be the best that we want to be. All you really need to do is just make it happen and believe in yourself, and then the rest is just sort of just doing the work which we're all very good at. And then I love that, because you've inspired me to think oh, maybe patients should be visiting me too. I love it.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you have an expertise and you have a story to tell, and you have, like, a philosophy and an approach and and that's all very uniquely yours, and and you do have a story to tell.
Speaker 3:We'll help you or just send them down to Hopkins.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're going to show them the, the, the, the podcast here and get them involved. Show them the podcast here and get them involved. Let's go back to Dr Dela Cruz. So you know, I know you've had some really incredible experiences and you've really changed your practice based on some of the travel that you've done. Do you have anything else on the horizon? So this is like a burning question what you know, what's next for you? Like you had this huge learning curve and now you're growing this incredible practice. Like you know what else is next on your lifelong learning?
Speaker 3:Well, I think that once you learn the skill set which I was very grateful to have spent time with true experts in lymphatic surgery and really learn the basics of technical skills and working on patients and whatnot, then the challenge really begins to bring it, in my case, home, in my region, in my region and that actually is a whole nother topic how you can integrate those skills in your own community, how you can then generate patients and also educate not only you know, the residents and your peers around you, but then educate patients on how they may benefit, and so that becomes just another broader area of outreach. That again requires collaboration, reaching out and just really continue learning. So it's really just so traveling, learning the skills is only the beginning, only the beginning, and then, um, so you know, it's more um, more work to follow, which, in some ways, um, can be even harder, you know, and and different challenges, different roadblocks and like do you find, then, that you're reaching out to any of those individuals when you hit a roadblock?
Speaker 3:roadblock? Well, of course, because that's the other amazing thing about traveling and reaching out and just really broadening your community, your peers and your mentors, is that then, when they see you again, they'll say, oh, have you done this flap or have you done this approach? And so it's only the beginning of the conversation, and the amazing thing is that they may feel responsibility for your success. Oh, I love that.
Speaker 3:And then you think, oh, I must succeed, because then all these other people have invested in you and so in a lot of ways you're sowing seeds around the world, but then they're sort of coming back to you.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that you know. Shortly after here, when you gave this talk at our meeting, I definitely had some people reach out to me who were like in the spirit of you know, just you know, putting your big girl panties on and asking people you know for help. Can I come and visit you and learn from you? And it was really cool because it does take like a lot of courage, I think, to oh yeah. It was so cool.
Speaker 3:I had a bunch of people actually that emailed me and reached out and they it wasn't just not that everyone wants to do lymphatic surgery, but they said, oh, thank you, because of this panel. They were inspired and then they decided, you know, they wanted to set up a overseas program to help people like like Dr Dickey. They wanted to increase their sort of awareness for patients that may be in need out there. And then people said, thank you, you know, like now you've inspired me and so, uh, it is, it is great.
Speaker 2:And I love that. Yeah, what do you guys think? You know I guess this question is more for Dr Dickey, but honestly, for all of you like, what do you think is the future of us traveling to bring, to bring surgical procedures to underserved populations? Because I feel like we're sort of ending the generation of all of these sort of philanthropic private practice surgeons who created these trips and these like enterprises, but, like I've seen quite a few of them that don't necessarily have good succession planning. Is that because, like, the need is less? Or you know what is what's going to change on the horizon here with, with travel and and and the work that we've done previously?
Speaker 4:I mean, that's a that's what do you think?
Speaker 2:I know Another question.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know, we've seen, you know, pull back on our own nation shores of sort of international aid and in that respect it may very well be that these types of mission trips are going to come back more, because it will take individuals or small groups to want to do that.
Speaker 4:You know one thing I will put in a small. You know well, and to say just back to that, the flaws of those trips were the lack of continuity and follow through. You know, you come in and you land and you do the surgery, and then there's no one really to follow up and maintain the health of this patient with any complications. And so you know, did you have a successful surgery or did you just make yourself feel good? We don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 2:So that's the main flaws of these trips, but I feel like a lot of them like yours, like they established long-term relationships with little areas and they would go back and like I feel like we've done better there I do think, yeah, right.
Speaker 4:So that's that's the question have you? Have you helped someone at least a little bit? Have you made something better or not? And I think that the general feeling is, yes, you've, you've helped somebody, but you haven't really solved your overarching problem. But, that being said, you know the ASPS has a, has a burgeoning program and there's others of these around in academic centers called Surgeons for Humanitarian Alliance sorry, the SHARE program, surgeons for Humanitarian Alliance through research and education. And you know they are training, you know, and it started in COVID, but training fellows with, with US based and also, I think, maybe some European based mentors and fellows currently in several African nations, and they have monthly seminars, they have M&Ms, they bring cases to the group, they work through them. I mean they're and they have small trips that go just to teach those residents, those fellows, how to do microsurgery, you know how to how to place breast implants you know do plastic surgery and they're really, really truly teaching these surgeons to be able to do plastic surgical techniques.
Speaker 4:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've seen some of the cases that they do. I mean this is stuff. I can't even wrap my head around that they're faced with and they're the only plastic surgeon in how many miles and they don.
Speaker 1:They have hospitals and they have the technology.
Speaker 4:They just don't. They may not have the skills of you know, the basic plastic surgical skills that can absolutely be taught, and so I mean I do.
Speaker 4:I think that's the true future you know, is to really give the resources back to the surgeons in the communities who understand their own public health needs and their own, you know, cultural issues and constraints. I mean, that's who really needs to be the leaders, the future plastic surgeons in those nations and we can help with that. I hope that that's the future. I don't think that trips are going away. Yeah, there's a place for them, without question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really cool. I think that's really really cool. If people don't know, they should definitely look into you know, share and learn more.
Speaker 4:They need more mentors, absolutely.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think it's great that you do that. I think that I think it's great that you do that and we have we have a partnership through research at our institution when we send a faculty member and a resident quarterly, and you know, I think that's the kind of thing, though, that is going to continue to take to require senior leadership who makes that a priority and affirms that that is worthwhile to do. And I am a little concerned, anyway, given what's happening, because a lot of these sort of people get interested in this when they're young. I mean, we interview medical students and they are all about international work and international missions, and I am hopeful that what's happening with academic institutions and the finances surrounding that is not going to put these things on the list of things that can't currently be funded, because it's vital that we share our knowledge and our research but, more importantly, invest in the next generation of people who are going on these missions every year and continuing the knowledge transfer.
Speaker 5:I think that's really important.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 4:Share no pun intended right, I mean I think I will say one of the most amazing things about plastic surgery and we all know it's true is we have this reputation of making so much money or being so wealthy, but of all the people in the hospital, my surgery center, I use the least resources. The joke is I need a knife and a fork. That's really it. I can make anything happen. I don't actually need a lot of expensive equipment or technology. Give me a headlight Okay, I need a light, but it's like we can do a lot with very little, and that's what I think is one of our greatest strengths.
Speaker 2:I mean that's kind of the whole crux of our specialty. You know, like we're the, we're the little fixers who can kind of make something out of nothing, and uh, we're clever and creative, and I think we're like that inside and outside of the OR.
Speaker 1:Dr Broderick, what?
Speaker 2:do you think is the future of you know travel and plastic surgery? I mean, it seems like right now we are in this exponential growth with you know people being willing and able to go anywhere for anything. What's your prediction of how that's going to go in the future here?
Speaker 5:I think it's going to continue to be that way. At least the interest is going to be there and we have a lot better capacity to help take care of people when they come to us. People are going to be still traveling across state lines. I think actually that one of the few upsides of COVID with the breaking down of the barriers in terms of, you know, having medical licenses in other states I think that's given people's ideas to that. Unfortunately, a lot of that has gone away. I know Dr Redman had a lot to say about that in her talk and how she works in her field and her state, but I think people realize that it is possible to do and we've gotten much better on finding ways to make it easier for patients who are traveling from out of state to help take care of us. I think the tricky part comes with expectations for follow-up care, because I think that is something that we'll just need to know ahead of time going into it.
Speaker 5:You know, I mean I have a patient right now who's been in Maryland for three weeks and I said you're going to need to see me a lot in these three weeks and then when I feel like you know you've got, you're outside the risk of complications enough, I'll let you get on a plane and go home. But there there is. You know, obviously there are a lot of people who are traveling across state lines for you know, one would say budget or cheaper plastic surgery are willing to travel to do that. I don't think we've done a really good job as a specialty of educating the public as well as we can about how dangerous that can be, because there is no ownership there.
Speaker 5:So so so as a specialty, I think you know, I think we can, we can push some of those campaigns out a little bit better.
Speaker 2:I love that it's going to happen.
Speaker 5:People are going to go, they're going to, they're going to travel for what they want or the price they want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I might get you on a committee to help with that. I love it.
Speaker 5:I feel really passionate about it. We know, when I was a resident of New York, people, would you know, get off an airplane from another country and come straight to our ER and it happens here. We're a big, we take care of a lot of the complications that people had and it's it's not. It's it's not people, you know, it's people who are, who are maybe practicing outside their scope.
Speaker 5:I don't know all of the nuances, but patients are getting harmed and we can do better with messaging. We just have to have the right person with the right voice who people will listen to. Person with the right voice who people will listen to. There's a bunch of actually really cool patient advocates who are in communities that have pretty big social media presences. To you know, help push that and push back because it's you know, it's a really important thing. That's really interesting.
Speaker 4:One cool thing too that's just recently come out and I don't think that they've really presented it or promoted it just yet, but the American Board of Plastic Surgery, along with ASPS and the Aesthetic Society, have come up with sort of a consensus statement and rules around traveling, and I think that's going to help, because what we need is a set of real guidelines and set a bar that we are holding people to. Everyone might think they know what is good care, but I think unless we have an agreed upon set standard, it's hard to message that. So I'm excited for that to come out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we just have to really scream it from the rooftops, because I agree. It's really great. We're going to get Kristen involved. I love it. We don't have a lot of time, but I'm going to ask you guys each to just sort of give like an inspiring little pearl for young people or anyone early in their practice who's interested on incorporating a little bit more travel in plastic surgery. Based on each of your realms of expertise that you talked about, what's your inspirational philosophical advice?
Speaker 4:Don't be afraid to get out of your comfort zone a bit. You'll be surprised. When you're a resident, you just can't wait to stop zone a bit. You'll be surprised when you're a resident, you just can't wait to stop being a resident. But really, in a couple years life becomes pretty mundane and you get in a routine and going out and learning new things, meeting new people, operating in new environments, it can really be exciting and I think that that is part of the lifeblood of what keeps us plastic surgeons, you know, innovating and and excited about the next, the next thing. So so stay curious.
Speaker 2:Stay curious, my friend. I love it. Dr Broderick, what's your advice on thinking outside of state lines?
Speaker 5:thinking outside of state lines. Yeah, I, you know. I think one thing we didn't really get much into is and this is something that it's it's tricky for people to learn. When you're in training, you're so focused on learning the skill set, mastering the surgeries but once you become, you become in practice. You're going to find out what your secret sauce or your special skill set is that people are going to want to seek you out for, and I think it's helpful to do, if you have access to do it, to do a little bit of a market analysis for areas of growth, little bit of a market analysis for areas of growth.
Speaker 5:If your target population is, you know, women who are at risk for breast cancer and you're going to do their reconstruction, you need to know where they are and you need to target your, your messaging on whatever, whatever sort of marketing you do social media, whatever and make that appropriate for that patient population and think about reaching out to providers in that specific area.
Speaker 5:You know, we know, we know, based on aging, the aging population of Maryland and Pennsylvania and DC where people are going to be and where our, where our newest patients are going to come from and where people are missing things. So I think if you're trying to sort of focus on growth and going into and you need to get some data and figure that out, but know that patients, in order for them to come to you, you have to make it easy for them to do. You have to make it easy to get in the door and you have to make it safe and you have to make it feel like it's you know, a place that they're going to want to come back to and then have them spread the word.
Speaker 5:I always tell my patients at the end of every like happy patients, I say, when they send you an email, say something nice about us, and I think that that matters. That's what people hear.
Speaker 2:I love that, your secret sauce. I love it. Dr Delacruz, did you think of your philosophical pearl?
Speaker 3:So we all only have one life to live, and the real question is you know, what are you going to do with it? And when you look back at your accomplishments and your successes and all the patients you've helped and you're going to, you don't want to have any regrets. And so, whatever it is that you want, however far away it is, you can ask yourself what are you going to do with your one life and your one chance? And I played ice hockey in college, and so Wayne Gretzky used to always say you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. And so my advice, you know for this and everything is go for it, and the only thing you'll regret is not doing it.
Speaker 2:I want to thank you guys all so much. This was so fun and so interactive and we could talk about all of plastic surgery within the topic of travel, like we could literally touch on all of it. So, you guys, it's always a pleasure to have all of plastic surgery within the topic of travel, like we could literally touch on all of it. So, you guys, it's always a pleasure to have all of you and your knowledge and expertise and undeniable wisdom. So thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the WPS Remix and we will see you guys for the next episode. Thank you guys.
Speaker 1:Thanks, guys. Thanks for tuning in to the WPS remix edition of the enhance your practice podcast brought to you by the ASPS women plastic surgeons. We hope you enjoyed our coverage of the WPS symposium and gain valuable insights from our guests. Remember to subscribe to our podcast, check out our other episodes on your preferred platform or download them directly from ASPS EdNet. Stay tuned for more exciting updates and expert advice to help you enhance your practice.