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World Outreach Podcast
World Outreach Podcast
EP 51 Building Cross-Cultural Ministry Teams: a conversation with Annelize
A haunting question changed everything for Analise: "Who is mobilizing the persecuted church?" This South African woman's journey from her homeland to Kenya reveals the powerful intersection of pioneering ministry, cross-cultural team building, and supporting believers facing persecution for their faith.
When Analise first experienced God's healing power at age 12 during a mission trip with her father, she couldn't deny His reality. Years later, after serving as both a small church and mega church pastor, a midnight prayer walk during a missions mobilization camp pointed her toward Kenya. What began as a call to mobilize others evolved into a specialized ministry for persecuted believers, particularly those from Muslim backgrounds.
The path wasn't smooth. As a woman leader in predominantly male spaces, Analise navigated cultural expectations while maintaining her voice. She learned hard lessons about trust, patience, and discernment after experiencing setbacks like losing an entire farm project to someone she trusted prematurely. Yet these challenges refined her approach to ministry and team building.
Her innovative methods for creating healthy multicultural teams stand out as particularly valuable. "Grace rooms" provide safe spaces for direct communication without offense, while "fly on the wall" sessions allow team members to hear affirmation from their peers. By emphasizing that healthy teams stem from healthy individuals, she prioritizes personal healing journeys alongside ministry development.
The power of her approach shows in the transformation stories: persecuted believers finding family support networks rather than organizational dependency, anger giving way to grace, and silenced women discovering their voices. For those wanting to support persecuted believers worldwide, Analise offers practical guidance: pray specifically by name, engage in spiritual warfare, and become aware of persecution happening even in supposedly "Christian" countries.
Whether you're considering cross-cultural ministry, building teams, or seeking to stand with persecuted believers, Analise's parting wisdom rings true: start by sitting at the Father's feet, listening to His heart, and simply obeying.
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you're listening to the world large podcast. Dynamic conversations, desire and power our community as we engage unreached people groups everywhere. Today we're going to speak with analise, from south africa, who has been pioneering works in other countries. She's going to share with us her journey of what it is like to be a woman leader, to pioneer new works and to work in multicultural teams. So thanks for joining us, annalise.
Speaker 2:Thank you, ben. Why don't you tell us a?
Speaker 1:little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. It's fun Pleasure. I come from South Africa, as you said, grew up in a very small town with amazing parents and three brothers. They are all now married my brothers I am the only single one left, but I am my dad's blue-eyed girl there you go. Yeah, and then I lived in Kenya for the last six years and now I'm transitioning out of it.
Speaker 1:Okay, very good. So you lived in kenya, so let's back up before we get to kenya. Um, what is your kind of journey into faith and ministry?
Speaker 2:well, it starts actually with me being born. Got born again on a mission trip when I was 12 years old. Um went to a mission trip to the suti with my dad.
Speaker 2:Okay, and actually as a 12 year old girl went to a mission trip to Lesotho with my dad, and actually, as a 12-year-old girl, it was the first time experiencing the power of God. I knew about Him. I think I gave my life to Jesus as a young child but didn't really understand what it meant to follow Him, and there I had the opportunity to pray for a lady, and she got healed, and so that was the first time I actually realized God was real.
Speaker 1:Wow, I mean, that's pretty big.
Speaker 2:That's massive. I could not deny that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Awesome, yeah, so that's where it started for me and that's where my heart for other cultures also, which was my parents' heart. I think I learned from them how to serve God and love Him. And, yeah, then after school I went to study theology at university. I really had a heart not just for the nations, but for young people, teenagers, young adults. At that point I was still a young adult and discovered yeah, I liked teaching and training in an experiential way, which is what I later on went on to do my master's in, more in that direction of how to establish ministry through experiential discipleship okay yeah, and well then, I served as a pastor in the church, first in a small congregation for about four years and then in a mega church in the city for another seven years.
Speaker 2:Completely different.
Speaker 1:Completely different environment.
Speaker 2:Completely different Before God called me to go to the nations myself.
Speaker 1:So when you got this call, how did you recognize the call to go to the nation?
Speaker 2:That's a very interesting story. So what we used to do is, when I was still in the megachurch setting, we had what we called missions, mobilizing camps for teenagers and young adults, and on these camps, through experiential ways, we would help them hear from God and where God is sending them. And one of the stuff that we did is the activities is we call it a midnight walk with God and you all walk at night on a hike with one question, and the question is which nation, whether it's to pray for or to go to, you just ask that as they walk as and I, even though I was leading them, I had the same question. And by the end of this journey, which is about two, three hour walk, not allowed to talk to anyone, you just walk, you get to a room where there's a group of people, you write down the nation you got and you leave it there and then by the end of that week, we have what we call a kind of a revealing of the nations, where we group them together. And that was the night I heard Kenya for the first. At the end of the camp there was five others that also heard Kenya. So we got together and we started praying for Kenya.
Speaker 2:And two months later I got an invitation to go to a youth camp in Kenya. So I said I think this is our time to go. So, those of us who could, from that group, we had our first trip to Kenya in 2016, obviously for a completely different reason, but it was when I was there that God started speaking to me about, yeah, mobilizing, because mobilizing has always been in my heart mobilizing others to go. And when I was there, god kind of opened my heart to okay, but isn't this a more strategic place to mobilize from when it comes to the unreached? It's closer to countries that are still close to the gospel. And so all those things kind of went through my mind. I went back to South Africa, went back to my colleagues at the church and I said I think God might be calling me to Kenya. Would you start praying with me? So I got a group of intercessors that started praying and listening with me because I wasn't sure and I was very scared.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it has its own dynamics, being a single woman to go, obviously. And yeah, when I got confirmation on different levels whether through scripture or through people or just certain things that started falling into place and doors started opening. I started talking to different organizations to see where my heart aligns most with. But the kind of breakthrough moment for me came I was lying in bed one night and this question popped into my mind that it kind of haunted me from there on in a good way. It was just who is mobilizing the persecuted church? And I lay away because at that point I did not have much to do with the persecuted at all, but I had a lot to do with mobilizing and it was kind of a question. I had no answer. All I knew was that somehow God was directing me to Kenya and somehow it's going to have to do with the persecuted. More than that at that point I didn't know, but that was enough to say, yes, god, I'll go. Okay, so in 2018, that is what I did.
Speaker 1:You went.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a common journey that I hear with a lot of people Younger age short term trip exposure, seeing some things, being in a position where God can speak to you and opening yourself up to it, and then that journey of processing what does it look like what's happening and where will I go. I like that term of haunting, though, because there is something about the call of God.
Speaker 2:As you're beginning to recognize it, it sits there right, and it's just kind of like can't get rid of it. Can't get rid of it, what am I gonna?
Speaker 1:do with this and and that's really good. So fast forward now, 2018, you, you head off to kenya. At that stage, what was in your mind, beyond you know, mobilization, persecuted church, what. What else was there? What were you thinking? Because it was essentially pioneering a new work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I at that point I knew, looking at kind of my history, god has always put me in a place where there was kind of pioneering situation that I had to do and kind of had to build a team up from nowhere, and so I kind of in my heart felt that was what I was going to do. I had no strategy at that point. I had some ideas which over time God shaped and threw some of it out. Any new ideas?
Speaker 2:But, what I did the first when I arrived in Kenya is for a few months four months I think I just stayed with a Kenyan family and just gotten to understand the culture a bit more. It was people that connected me with this. It was a discipleship program they were running and all they wanted me to do is just teach once a week. So I didn't have much to do, which was great. I just got to know the culture and at the same time I had a lot of time to pray because I felt like that's what I needed to do first just hear from God. And as I was doing that, for those four months living with the family, god started revealing, bit by bit, what such a ministry could look like. He gave me some key things that I started writing down. Of course, my background with experiential discipleship was kind of my default already knowing that this is something I think can work in Kenya, but I'm not sure right. So in this discipleship school I kind of started testing some of it. So I had this opportunity once a week to test some of the experiential stuff and see, okay, but the Kenyans actually enjoyed a lot. And then I realized, okay, but for me to really get to know what the need is.
Speaker 2:I needed to network bigger and to do that I had to move to the city, nairobi, which is where most of the organizations are based, just to be closer to you, know what is happening and build relationships, because I was on my own. Obviously I had the organization support, but in terms of relationships I knew very few. So that was my next step. As I moved to the city and I started just networking as much as I could. On my heart, I always knew that the unreached group I had a heart for was more the Horn of Africa and well more specifically, specifically, people from a Muslim background. Never did I think I was going to be the one to evangelize Muslims. I always knew it was a mobilizing. It was mobilizing.
Speaker 1:So mobilizing? What do you mean by it was a mobilizing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that actually came out more when I was starting to do some research through the relationships building.
Speaker 2:I knew at that point for me mobilizing meant discipling and sending, but I didn't understand exactly what that would look like for the persecuted until I did research in that community and realized there were so many organizations, there were so many organizations, there are so many organizations that evangelize or work towards reaching the muslims in and around ken, and there are some that help those who are being persecuted, um, but mostly kind of on a once a week base, like they would, or they would take them in and hide them, keep them safe right the acute response like immediate response to a situation. How do?
Speaker 1:we step in and help Exactly.
Speaker 2:And there's quite a few that do that, but I couldn't find anyone else that you know had intentionally used that force of disciples, mobilized them and sent them. So that was for me, kind of, where I realized, okay, this is kind of the niche area which God has called me for. That became our vision, that became the vision that I knew, okay, around this I could build a team.
Speaker 1:Okay, before we jump too far ahead into that story, what were some of those challenges or obstacles that you observed or noticed working with the persecuted and then also kind of beginning to pioneer work?
Speaker 2:I mean I've made so many mistakes those first few years. First of all, I think I trusted too easily. That was a big lesson for me. I trust people quite easily in general, but I had to learn to discern better, as I would learn to who to work with and who not to work with. And unfortunately, in that underground community of the persecuted, trust is very, very low and they would seem like they trust you but they would still keep you at a distance. And it actually took me about four and a half years to actually feel like I am part of that group. Now I have been accepted. I am part of that group now I have been accepted. To be honest, foreigners were not really part of that group because it took a lot of eating together, a lot of doing life together, a lot of relationship building. But some of those early years, I think what I realized is that I wanted the five-year vision to be seen in year two.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:I rushed some of the things and I could have done it so much better. At one point we had this farm project. I think you might remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We were running this farm project which I was so excited about. We had this amazing crop, it was going to fund the ministry and then in a day we literally lost everything because someone that I trusted just you know took it and went. But now, looking back, I also see why I had to go through that. Yeah, because I had to also learn to, you know, to pray more and hear from God more before acting and also not to rush. I mean, I think there's a lot of words, some things. Yeah, it really just takes and it's okay. And I think I also had to become more comfortable with making mistakes, and because you can beat yourself up a lot if you make a big mistake like that, especially if there's a lot of finances involved yeah but I also had to learn and I think that was.
Speaker 2:The grace from the organization side is that everyone has gone through that like yeah it's happened to all of us.
Speaker 1:There's definitely a learning curve in missions and most of us who are pioneers and want to see things happen, we want to just rush in and and go through it and there's a refining process that god does to mature us and get us ready for actual ministry stuff. So mistakes is part of that journey as long as we learn from them, not just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again absolutely yeah, you alluded um to before that you are a woman, wait what.
Speaker 1:Wait what, but as a pioneering woman in ministry, particularly going into a male-dominated society. What were some of the challenges moving that way in the networking in the ministry and stuff.
Speaker 2:And then how did you work through those? I think there were pros and cons. How did you work through those? I think there were pros and cons. I think on the con part, the difficult part of being a woman in an African context is you're not seen as a leader. Mostly in those Christian circles a woman should not be leading a ministry at all. But it was very interesting because I think God gave me a lot of grace and I'm thankful sometimes that he placed the right people around me. I realized very quickly that if you keep a place of just you know I'm not here to tell you, I just come with what God has given me and I want to learn from you that position of you know I'm not trying to lead you becomes a place where people automatically kind of start following the vision and not the person. And because I believe so much in what God has given, so that was helpful.
Speaker 2:And I think before I went to Kenya there are certain things that at some point I looked back. I'm like why did I have to study theology? You know, put, get, get all those degrees and all that. I felt like why?
Speaker 2:And then I got into this community where being a woman was a downfall, but having a qualification gave you a voice and I yeah, as soon as I realized that because for me titles doesn't matter at all, but in the Kenyan culture it matters and I had to, for the first time probably my entire ministry lean a little bit into that, saying, you know, but you might not see me as your equal because I'm a woman, but I am your equal maybe because I have some qualifications. So I think that balance of getting to see what are some of the strengths or what are some of the grace that God has given you that you can use, and over time it's very interesting. I had so many men, older, wise men that God placed around me, kenyans, that I could just, you know, go to for advice, and I know that none of them believes in women leading ministries, yet somehow they walk, and that's just God. That is, yeah, that's the grace I had, I think.
Speaker 1:So I think there's some interesting lessons there. One is qualifications like of them or not they are valuable valuable to have and being able to pull them out, both from a credibility standpoint when you're going into new environments, particularly in the missions world, as missions becomes less and less accepted from a society perspective you know, in close countries and stuff, the having credibility of a degree or an expertise really opens up doors and opportunities.
Speaker 1:But there's a process as well. Now you have this resource that you kind of can reach back into and draw onto for lessons and stuff. So I think that's a really interesting aspect of the journey that god brings us on. But these men, there's other people who you could lean into as mentors and to people who probably garnered some favor for you or open doors for you through relationships and stuff maybe. What lessons do you learn from that of being involved with other people or open-handed with other people in that way?
Speaker 2:I think what was valuable for me, the moment I started thinking, okay, I can't do this on my own, I need it. I started with asking a few key people that I've met along the journey that I knew had their own ministries, but kind of similar to mine, and I asked them if they would be willing to commit for a year as a pioneering, so that I had people to bounce with and ask. And so I had about six people that said, okay, we're willing to be part of your pioneering team.
Speaker 2:Which is like an advisory group or something like that to bounce ideas off of and on that team was mostly Kenyans and I had two Muslim background believers that was also on there just to get their perspective and they helped me so much as I was developing the, the structure of the ministry, the content. I used to meet with them weekly where I would write a chapter and just put it on the table and they would say this cannot work here, this is completely wrong or this is amazing. So it was a long and difficult process. In many ways I was thankful for COVID because that would mean writing time. I developed a lot of stuff during that time, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I met with them online, but this group of people people, some of them actually stuck um and are still part of the ministry in a way. Yeah, but most of them went on and you know I released them after here, but it was so helpful to have like-minded people from the culture that walked beside me. Um, as I was building a team, I knew that was not going to be my team forever, but I asked for a commitment of one year and most of them stuck with me for about two or three years, because developing a team obviously takes time, yeah, yeah. So that was very great. And some of them, at some point I created what I call a council of elders and some of them said, okay, but they are still willing to be on that council where difficult decisions, um, that I could just take to them and say you know, is this culturally appropriate? Obviously, having other voices involved makes the process slower and it might sometimes feel and I was frustrated at many times.
Speaker 2:So sure oh, why is this kind of slowing down when we want to do, but it was so good at the same time? Because it also gives you accountability when stuff do happen. You have these people that are back.
Speaker 1:So let's stay there a little bit about developing team. So you spent a lot of time, as you said, like this advisory group and then a council of elders, and then actually developing a team. That was an operational team, ministry team, alongside of you. What were you looking for besides just people who were living and breathing in that selection process of team?
Speaker 2:I think mostly I mean it started with I had to take a time where I specifically prayed and fasted for people that could come full time, because there were a few people already that said, you know, in the type of structure we have, we are willing to host people, we are willing to be as part of, and there's a big group of volunteers that are still involved. But I knew I needed full-time people and I also going in. I knew I was going to come out at some point. Right, that was from the beginning. I never intended to stay there forever, because I know that's not the way God has used me, has always used me to start and then move on. So I I knew that coming in. So I wanted also people that I know they would commit full time and they would be able to carry the vision in a better way than me. And I wanted it to be local and I wanted it to be people that, yeah, shares the dream of where God can take this. So it started with a lot of prayer and I think some of them actually prayed into existence, sure, sure, because there was actually in that time that I was covered.
Speaker 2:In South Africa, I took 21 days of praying and fasting for a couple, because I wanted it to be a couple, just because I know a man in Kenya carries much more credibility than a woman, but I also didn't want it. I wanted the woman to be part of it. So I was really kind of seeking God for a couple that we willing to come come on board full time. And it was during that prayer and fasting time, the second week, where I got a message from someone that I met a few years ago, just in some of the connections that we made. We met. We spent about a day and a half together in a conference and they sent me a message just saying Hi, we were just wondering are you still in Kenya? Could we meet up? We have some? Yeah, we were just wondering if we could pray together. We're kind of in the process of transitioning and just wondering where are you.
Speaker 2:And the moment I got the message I, in my spirit, I kind of sensed, hmm, this could be something. Yeah, right. So I met with them online and when they started talking and sharing their own heart, I immediately realized it lines up so much with what is in my heart and with what I see God doing. So I asked them if they would be willing to commit to meet with me regularly while I'm still out of the country, just meet online. So we started having these online meetings and meeting and just building relationship and the moment I moved back to Kenya I went to visit them physically and, yeah, it kind of moved very smoothly, very quickly, because we almost immediately realized this was a God-given thing and they are the ones well leading the ministry at the moment. Smoothly, very quickly, because we almost immediately realized this was a.
Speaker 2:God-given thing, Right, and they are the ones well leading the ministry at the moment, which is great.
Speaker 1:So this team is starting to form. We've got a couple of people there. What were some key success points or key factors to building a successful team?
Speaker 2:I think for me, even in our ministry, our philosophy around discipleship is doing life together, and I wanted that that to be the case for us too, because it's especially because most ministries, most kenyan ministries in kenya, have a similar kind of culture, and I wanted us, our culture, to be a little different, and that means a lot of things, but I really wanted us to be a culture where women do have a voice for one and it has a heart for working with other organizations. It's not like just working on our own networking but, at the same time, also being a ministry that needs to be very secure in what we do and how we do it, because of security risks we have. Yeah, so I think I wanted us to do life together so that they could catch the vision from me by seeing it, not just hearing it. Sure, yeah, so we lived together. I asked them to come and stay with me for a few months. It was very challenging, but it was very good me for a few months.
Speaker 2:It was very challenging, but it was very good. It was such a promising time and I did that when later on, there was two girls that wanted to join the team. Of course, if it was men they wouldn't be able to live with me Probably why my team have so many women. But there were two girls and I said, okay, come live with me for a few months and we build relationship, because I want you to see my heart more than it is just hearing it and honestly, when I go back now and I visit them, I feel like they carry the vision so much better than I do, which is what I wanted to see, and that's kind of exciting and that's a kind of, yeah, doing life together. That was a main key for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of, yeah, doing life together, yeah, um, that was a main key for me. Yeah, so I mean, yeah, like jesus's incarnational ministry, it rubs off his time spent together and stuff but the sub messaging that I'm hearing come through from you, though, is a bit of it's deep relationships with one another, so it's knowing each other well very well for sure um. You talked about a shared vision or really capturing the vision, owning it yeah and then making it even more than the vision that you had alone, by bringing together.
Speaker 1:And then they can take it further, valuing different roles or aspects of people's nature and who they are coming into it, so honoring both male and females in what they bring into ministry, the different aspects of God's nature and character and bringing those out to the surface, but also having kind of clear roles and expectations of hey, you're going to do this, I'm going to do this and bringing those together. What other factors, as you think about that kind of contribute to a successful team?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think some of the stuff that you mentioned now. Just, you know, as you get to know each other better and as the trust builds, you also get to see which are the areas that they really shine in and willing to get to a place where you say, okay, maybe this doesn't work for you, maybe you should write to try and do this yeah I think one of the main things that I had to learn, especially when I started to kind of hand over, is not to expect them to be me right.
Speaker 2:Yes, carry the same vision and the heart, but be you, um, and your gift. For one of the other main things and that's also part of the, the culture that we started building within us to be vulnerable. You know to, truly you know show the vulnerable sides of you, admit your mistake, talk through those hard stuff, which is hard in a cross-cultural setting, because the way we communicate are so different. We started doing something in our team, being the experiential discipler that I love to be, we call it a grace room, and so our team has this grace room situation where, when you feel like there's something on your heart that you need to sort out with someone, you can call for a grace room and we would all sit in the grace room and you can say and express in any way and nobody's allowed to get offended. You know, and and just hash it out, um, and, and. It's been so helpful for us because you know, when you call a grace room, that this is. I might say things now that I don't mean in the way it might come out.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna give you grace, um, and we sometimes joke about it, but it has been so helpful in our cross-cultural context for me being very direct, so they know when I say, okay, we're having a grace stream, I'm going to be super direct yeah, and they're going to have grace with me and and then we just talk through stuff and it's really been very helpful to to also learn from their culture, the the amazing way they have to keep going in the conversation and clarifying, and clarifying until we get to a point where we're like, okay, now we can move forward, right.
Speaker 1:And that's a huge. Other lesson just in team development is establishing your culture like what does it mean for us to be a team? How are we going to operate?
Speaker 2:how do we honor one another's?
Speaker 1:cultures? How do we solve conflicts? How are we vulnerable with another? How do we accept each other's strengths and weaknesses and then, uh, express them, but also catapult people or empower people? To run in their lane, in their, in their skill sets and then that's.
Speaker 1:That's important as well, and particularly in a multicultural team. You do have to then lay out those. We are different. We are going to see things different. Let's lay out those, the rules, so to speak, in a in. How are we going to engage with one another, and they're not always the same absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think one of the another thing that we as a team do regularly um, we have all sorts of funny names for it, but we call it a fly on the wall is where we actually we sit as a team and one person becomes the fly on the wall, meaning he's not allowed to say anything and the rest of us will gossip good things about that. It's just kind of an affirmation of this person just have to receive all the good stuff we say about them. And we try to make that part of our culture of doing it regularly, where because the grace room gets all the yucky stuff out. But we also need to encourage each other and make each other hear you know, we see this, we see you do this, see you do that, and that is always. We try to kind of balance that out.
Speaker 2:After we've had a grace room, let's let's be the fly on the wall for a minute and just gossip the good stuff about each other and just how much that means to building up, because we, we need to, as a team, constantly remind each other. We want that, we want the best for what. We want you to be the best person you can be. We want this team to be the best team we can be and, unfortunately, for that to happen, we sometimes need to bump heads to get there, yeah, but we also need to encourage each other conflict does not have to be a bad thing I mean we framed it as a bad thing oftentimes, but it's actually health.
Speaker 1:There's healthy conflict that actually advances things much better than just ignoring things not bringing up, and if god's gifted each one of us with different strengths, which we've talked about, then we're going to see things differently and we're going to add different elements to it.
Speaker 1:And sometimes getting those gears to mesh properly so everything's running smoothly takes time and it takes conflict, and the ideas build out of conflict right Like good ideas can build out of conflict, if you allow it, take place, yeah, in a healthy way and in a positive way, and I think that whole idea of affirming one another is a is a fantastic practice should be done more. It doesn't come very natural to some people. The other people it comes really naturally, um, but it's a good, a good skill to have within a team community. I mean, teams don't just exist just for the sake of a team. Teams exist around vision, around execution of something. How have you seen laying a foundation of a healthy team then impact the fruitfulness of ministry?
Speaker 2:Well, I think one of the main things I had to learn over time is, as we were building the team and I mean I say us, because we were building it together while building the ministry is to really value learning from each other. I think when I got to a place where I'm now starting to transition, it's almost when I realized just how valuable each person is and how much it is more important for them to understand their function within the team. And I wasn't intentional if I have to be honest, I wasn't intentionally developing leaders. I was intentional about developing it, but I'm thankful now to see that actually I have developed leaders that can now build it. Which is something I think I am still learning about in terms of pioneering is that actually you build a team, but you, as a pioneer, you actually build leaders of what they will now build as a team. And it's now amazing to see how they start dreaming about what the ministry could look like in the future and what a team could look like in the future and what a team could look like in the future, to such an extent that we decided now you know, we're actually going to stop ministry for a little bit and just build a team and allow them to build it. It's a hard thing to transition, but it's so good also, because I get to see how they flourish, um, and I get to see what they learn.
Speaker 2:I think one of the main things I had to learn was that to have a healthy team, you have to have healthy individuals. I mean, it's something we know, but we are not. I think sometimes I wasn't intentional enough about and and for that is, my main focus right now is just to make sure every individual is on a healing journey and is constantly working towards growing in their relationship with God and within the ministry too. But because, if I mean, most of the issues comes out of personal challenge, comes out into the team, so that that healing journey for myself and for my team, um, if that's not a priority, I don't actually see how a team can be helped. They're not actively in a healing process every single day. I don't know if I answered your question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's good, I mean that that's part of that process right of building team, building people.
Speaker 1:One of the major things that we see all the time is that leaders become the lid of other people's development because they're not willing to step out of the way to allow people to thrive in God's gifting and call.
Speaker 1:And so leadership is one of those skills where you actually create space for other people to flourish, and that that is leadership into the empowerment of other people to it. So I want to change directions really quickly, because I think we'd be remiss to highlight some of the important work that you guys have been doing amongst the marginalized and the persecuted, and just to put out a call for people to to consider and to pray for our brothers and sisters who are persecuted around the globe. And so your ministry has strongly looked at helping people who have come out of situations of persecution to begin that discipleship journey, begin to become more committed followers of Jesus and grow into the fullness of who he is, but then also go back into communities that have been persecuting them to bring the gospel that they now have and this hope and this new life that they now have. So why is that so important?
Speaker 2:I can say so many things to that, but I think the main thing is because they are important to god too. Um, they are called by him too, just as much as we are following jesus. For them is the same, but the difference is they have counted the cost and it makes them a powerful force. They have, most of these people, or many of them at least, encountered Jesus on a very, you know, physical way, sometimes in dreams or visions or and they have seen that when they do choose to follow him, they lose every. So when they do choose to follow, they are on fire and it's it's almost. Sometimes I feel like, wow, we are missing the fiery group of people because persecution drives them in a way, because they're not scared, but to help them to also be wise in that. But at the same time, unfortunately, many of them are not discipled in in a way that, yeah, yeah, it's a lasting thing. So many that become persecuted, persecution becomes so much that they sometimes fall back or they don't have a support system. So I think that's where we come in and we say you know, we don't take big group because we want the family, we want them to experience family and we want them to see what it looks like to be a good dad, what? What does it look like to be a child in the house? What is? How do you discipline your children? You know, and just those character of Jesus, what does it actually look like? Because they don't grow up. So that's why our discipleship process literally happens in the context of a family, so they become part of a family and we, we move them around to different families so that by the end of their journey with us, they have a network of supporters, they have people praying for them, they have a new family, even though it's not blood family, instead of just being us Because that is, I think.
Speaker 2:Sometimes what happens is organizations would take them and they become so dependent on the organization that they're not able to stand on their own and then they fall back. But building a community of different families around them gives them a support. They feel okay, I'm encouraged and I have people to go back to if I need them. And the beauty of that is we have actually seen that where, once we have released them out of our program, some of the families stay involved in their life. There's an amazing story of one of the guys that were with us. Actually, one of the families went into business with him and started walking that journey with him and they are still together in the sense of this is his brother in Christ and he is now within a community of his own people the people that persecuted him, but just in a different region, so they don't know him in that area, right, and he has this amazing ministry by running a business. So that is the heart behind it. Fortunately, there are many unsuccessful stories, too, stressful stories too, but we are.
Speaker 2:For me, the most amazing stuff. Seeing when it happens in the family is actually when you see life transformation in the small things. Interesting enough, anger is a massive thing with most of the people that we take in, and to see anger become grace and someone softening and becoming loving, see the character where they start caring. We had a couple recently. That which is a different kind of setting. Dynamic, yeah, dynamic, having a couple and the wife was pregnant too, so there was many dynamic. Yeah, to see how their relationship change once they understand that both are valuable, both have an opinion. The wife in the beginning, when they came, never said a word in any of the conversations and by the end it was just so beautiful to see. She has an own opinion, she has this amazing testimony to share. So, yeah, those are the little things that we see is the character chain, which you can only see if you're rubbing shoulders really close.
Speaker 1:I mean, for many of us. We don't experience persecution at this level. We really don't comprehend it. For those on the outside, how can we stand with our brothers and sisters who are facing persecution? What are two or three things that we can do?
Speaker 2:Well, of course, pray, I think, and to become more specific in our prayers, I think when we it's a good prayer to pray for the persecuted but, you know, get some information about those who are being, even get names or faces of people that you could pray for. We have seen in our ministry there was a time in the ministry where we got more intentional about having an intercession group that literally intercedes almost on a daily basis and just how that shifted the dynamic and became so much more like there was another power behind it that we didn't see before and we even felt more protected. And making sure that also stand with us in the sense of warfare, because it's a spiritual warfare, especially when you work with Muslim background believers. Sickness and the illnesses around the students that come to us and our team there's so much of that. So prayer for me is the number one way of being involved.
Speaker 2:But then also, you know we're not always in. We don't actually always know. I mean, even in south africa, if I were to speak in a church and talk about persecution in south africa, which is a christian country, people don't think it exists, even in kenya, that there's an unawareness of the fact that persecution is happening around us and to maybe see in your actual community are there people that are actually under persecution? You're not aware of it? Or in your country or wherever you are, are there some Christians that don't feel safe? I don't actually think sometimes the church is prepared for persecution that might come in the future because we are kind of ignorant. But to know that even in Christian countries there are certain people, groups, that are being persecuted by their own people for being followers of Jesus and to become aware of it, and if you are in a position to help them, you know, open your home and help them. Yeah, um, to go as far as that um as we wrap up.
Speaker 1:Is there any final thoughts or words of encouragement for the listener?
Speaker 2:I think I maybe just end. If you are someone that are thinking about going to the mission field, whether you are single, a woman, or if you're a couple, doesn't matter who you are, from which culture. But if there's one thing throughout, everything that I had to constantly learn and still relearn isn't at the end of the day, it comes back to how much time am I spending with God, how much time am I investing in just being with my father and understanding his heart and his mission? And if you're in a place where you don't actually know anything about missions, that's the same starting point. If you're being persecuted, that's the same starting point. So maybe just an encouragement of if you don't know where to start, that's where you can start. Sit at the feet of the Father and listen to Him, be with Him and then obey.
Speaker 1:Really good. You can't do it wrong if you're going to listen to.
Speaker 2:God and then obey Him. Right, that's about it.
Speaker 1:There we go, done, that's a wrap. That's fantastic and that's really good advice. It's solid advice and so many of us neglect it in our own lives, as you just said, and so, yeah, that's good. Thank you, annalise, for sharing your stories. Thank you for sharing your experience of journeying with Jesus and seeing where he takes you, and pioneering your work and being a voice for the persecuted.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, ben Listener.
Speaker 1:thank persecuted thank you very much, ben listener. Thank you for tuning in today. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with annalise. I'm sure there's some takeaways for you to go away and ponder and think about and ask god about as you sit at his feet and listen to him. Um, as always, if you have any thoughts or on this podcast or any questions, you can email me. The email is in the description. Please, um, do rate and review the podcast on all the major platforms that we have and share it with your friends and um. We thank you for tuning in and we'll see you next time.