Today I'm chatting to audio and media expert, David White about the process of moving your book to an audio book. Why and how should you do this? Now is your chance to find out.
Today I'm chatting to audio and media expert, David White about the process of moving your book to an audio book. Why and how should you do this? Now is your chance to find out.
Hi, and welcome to the writing and Marketing Show brought to you by author Wendy H. Jones. This show does exactly what it says on the tin. It's jam packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news to help you with the business of writing. It's all wrapped up in one lively podcast, so it's time to get on with the show. And welcome to Episode 59 of the writing and Marketing Show with author entrepreneur Wendy H. Jones. Today I've got a cracking show with you, we're going to be taking a look at audio books from all angles. And that's with David White, who is a media expert from Murfreesboro in Tennessee. And I know for a fact that Murfreesboro is actually near Nashville because I went to a conference a couple of years ago and did an event so hey, it's a small world, isn't it? But I'm looking forward to speaking to David because audiobooks are something which are becoming more and more and more popular. And so what's been happening in my world? Well, the most exciting thing is that on Saturday, I will be speaking at the Suffolk Mystery Writers Festival. Now for all of my listeners in Britain, I need to tell you that it's Suffolk, Virginia in the United States, not Suffolk in England, because that's where we immediately spring to. Now I'm not travelling, I wish I was going on a plane there. But I'm not because we're all in lockdown. So we're doing the panel online. And I'm very excited to actually be on the panel with Katrina MacPherson, Marni Graf, and I've completely forgotten the other lady's name is Sarah, Sarah. I'll put it in the shownotes. Apologies to Sarah. But your book is brilliant. I've just finished reading your book. And it's absolutely brilliant Sarah. So you're a superb writer. And I'm sorry, I've forgotten your surname. And I'm very much looking forward to it. It's you can sign up free art Suffolk Mystery Writers Festival. And you can actually join us for some sessions, which are pre recorded and some which are live. And it starts at 9am. On Saturday, that Saturday, the Oh my heavens, I'm not doing so well today, Saturday, the sixth of March 2021. If you're listening to this in the future, having some Tongue Tied today. That's 9am East Coast time. So for my listeners in the United Kingdom, that is 2pm our time and I'm on at 10am. But I've signed up for all the panels because I cannot wait. Even though it's going to take me late into the night in the UK, I'm going to listen to all these panels because they're going to be amazing. So if you'd like an ice mystery book, that's the place to be at this weekend. Before we go on to speak to David, I'm just say if you liked this show, I love doing it for you. It does take time out of my writing. But I do it with pleasure. If you would like to support that time, you can do so for just the price of a cup of tea or coffee a month, which is$3 a month. And I would be eternally grateful that will let me know that you're enjoying what I'm doing. And I've been doing it for over a year now. So I'm definitely enjoying it. So what have David because we're here to hear him and to hear him speak about audio book production. So David White is a media professional with more than 25 years of experience. He's a storyteller and believes people best remember experiences that move them emotionally. To that end, he has focused his craft toward becoming an instructional creative, motivating and educating both his clients and their audience. He loves solving problems. It's how He shines. Throughout the problem solving process, he enjoys helping people see ways to both improve themselves and help others by passing on new knowledge and awareness. David has been married to his lovely wife for nearly 30 years. Together they have a son and a daughter and three beautiful grandchildren and he's still in his 40s or at least until June he says he graduated from Middle Tennessee State University with a degree in the recording industry and mass communications. He began his professional career as a videographer editor and AV jack of all trades, and has proceeded to hone his craft while adding new skills and elearning development and podcast production. Another area he is continually working to improve his commercial voiceover and audiobook narration and production. So the perfect person to chat to today. So without further ado, let's get on with the show and hear from the lovely David. And I have David with us welcome, David.
David White:Thank you, Wendy. I appreciate the opportunity to to speak with you and your your listeners.
Wendy Jones:Oh, no, it's absolutely brilliant to have you join us here in Scotland. And I believe you're from Murfreesboro in Tennessee.
David White:That is correct.
Wendy Jones:Wow. Well, I know of Murfreesboro. And to be honest, you're the second person I've met from there. Just accidentally, I met somebody in Dublin. It was from there. Oh, wow. And that was before I went, they said, Well, I live in Tennessee. I sit around going there. So now I'm going to Murfreesboro ranch. So that's where I'm from. So we met, we
David White:We're about 100,000 people, I think give or take met here in Tennessee, but the geographic centre of the state?
Wendy Jones:Well, I can I can say I've been in the geographic centre of Tennessee, which was great because I was I was doing an event, a conference there. And I really enjoyed myself. Everybody made me very welcome. So I like people from Murfreesboro
David White:Great. I'll try to keep that rolling.
Wendy Jones:Fantastic. Now today, I know everybody's going to be excited to actually get started with the interview because it's all about doing audiobooks from book to audiobook. So just to get us started. And should we all know what an audio book is, but just in case, there's someone listening, who isn't aware of exactly what it is, what exactly would you consider to be an audio book?
David White:The simple answer is taking your book, recording it and making it available through an audible source, a source you can hear audible happens to be one of the main sources as a company. But know that and they can be different things that we just finished a project for Canadian author, he has a holocaust story of his father. We took interviews that were done on Canadian television of his father and inserted his voice along with the narrator's voice telling his story of his experiences during the war.
Wendy Jones:Wow, that is fascinating. I To be honest, I'm glad I asked that question because I was one of these people that thought Oh, well, it's just a, you would do a book and it's in audio form. But you're right, you can't do different things and you know, make it more interesting. So I'm fascinated by that.
David White:Yeah, they're are considerations, and we can talk about those but but there's Yeah, you can, you can be a little flexible with with what you do.
Wendy Jones:Yeah, that's amazing. So I'm curious and to be honest, I'm going to be honest and say I'm one of these people that hasn't yet got an audio book out and I am considering it. But why should authors be considering audiobooks alongside their hard copies and ebooks?
David White:I think the the simple answer to that is mobility. The the feel of paper the feel of that hardback book or that paperback book is people something that people cherish. But people are maybe not so much right now during Coronavirus. But once you know but people still do things around the house. People still do walking around the neighbourhood whatever it might be. It's very difficult to hold a book in front of your face and not run into a streetlamp though, the audio book aspect just gives you that mobility, the ability to listen to and from as you travel to, to your job or whatever it might be working in the yard. That flexibility i think is the number one key on top of the the outside reasoning of there are people who won't buy your book in print. They only enjoy listening to audiobooks. So you open up another opportunity to make that sale.
Wendy Jones:That's true. I think a lot of people are busy but they can listen to audiobooks while they're while they're busy. So they can multitask. Now that that that's a really good way of looking at it because you know, if you're doing the housework you can listen, if you're walking around the neighbourhood, you can listen or you're out for a run. You can listen.
David White:Right? It's not so easy when you're hoovering. But maybe that's not the time to do it
Wendy Jones:It gets a bit loud doesn't it? volume up, you might deafene yourself but you can bump the volume up. Exactly. So, to be honest, when I think about audio books, I always think you need a lot of expensive equipment. So what exactly do you need when it comes to narrating audiobooks?
David White:The Place I would start is the place I would start there is to decide how you want that experience to happen for the listener. So for example, you your murder mysteries, for example. Yeah, they are generally set in a location. And your characters have a background and a lifetime experience. So the question is, do you want that to be true to life? Or do you want that to just kind of be spoken out loud? This is all leading up to? Do you want to pay someone to do it? Or do you want to do it yourself?
Wendy Jones:Yeah,
David White:the equipment that you would need to do it, if you did it yourself is simply a quality microphone, and your copy of connecting your microphone to your computer and things like that. But it's so much harder when people ask me, people tell me I have a great voice and that I should do voiceover or record audiobooks. I say that is that is lovely. You should you should consider that. The beginnings to do that is pick up any book that you want your favourite book, take it into your walk in closet, or an area that's nice and quiet. And stand and read it for two hours. Do that for do that for a week. And let me know if you still want to do this. Yeah, because because it is a it is a major commitment to to do an audio book. And it's, and I'm not trying to scare anyone off of it. It's just just like sitting down and trying to decide to write the book. You won't put that much time into it. But you'll put a considerable amount of time recording that book and editing it and mastering it and getting it ready to deliver.
Wendy Jones:Yeah, I mean, even during this podcast, and that's audio, it takes a while because you then have to edit it. It's not as simple as just asking the questions and speaking. And it's the same if you're doing a book I'm sure you know, you probably clear your throat and all of that has to be, you know, taken out?
David White:Well, it again, it depends on how you how you are recording your inflection, what you what you want to hit in that sentence, you know, what is the key word? Where is the highlight of that sentence or that paragraph? Those types of things? You mean, you can hear it in your head when you read it. But then making that come out your mouth is is sometimes different?
Wendy Jones:Yeah, I agree. Totally. I mean, if you need a chapter out of your book, or a book signing, it's totally different to doing the whole book, it can be really wearing on your voice.
David White:It is acting, it is acting, narrators, professional narrators go through training and they get experience just like you know, working with a writing coach like you. You work with a vocal coach and you learn how to hit certain things. For instance, a word a sentence that has kind of a parentheses or a kind of a comma separated afterthought, you you can really drop down and talk about it like this, and then you come back to your normal voice and finish the sentence. So if there's techniques in there that and again, these are all learnable I didn't know anything about this before I started Besides, you know, reading to my children or, or doing minor amount of public speaking that I've done. Yeah.
Wendy Jones:you've convinced me I need to bring out audio books. So what's my first step?
David White:Well, the first step is to again, determine if you want to do it or if you want someone else to do it, determine if it's fiction for instance, do you want a full cast of characters meaning one person that can do all the voices or do you want an ensemble cast? Sometimes, you know dual POV, which is that's a term I'm sure everybody understands in your podcast and but your point of view, but you would you want that male voice and that female voice to to merge together into your, your audiobook files. Once you kind of determine how you want that, again, you're thinking of the experience of the listener. And I would, I would start there. The next step would be to If you want, I would find someone that can help guide you through it and direct you. As you record. Again, with not a lot of experience. You won't know what you don't know. So you won't, you may not make the right decisions based on phrasing or speaking or whatever, in those regards, and then if you turn it over to a professional, then you also have to be comfortable. It's like handing it to your editor, you have to be comfortable with their changes and their interpretation to some degree, because it is a creative work.
Wendy Jones:No, no, there are good points. Actually, yes, you need to feel comfortable working with anyone same with anything, you need a good, comfortable working relationship, you know, and to be confident that they're going to do a good job for you. So now there are really good points, I have to say. My next question is probably a huge one. But what exactly is involved in producing an audio book?
David White:Well, I'm going to talk about it from a, you've hired a narrator standpoint,
Wendy Jones:okay.
David White:The first step, the, the easiest way to do this is to coordinate with, excuse me with the easiest way is to coordinate with Amazon, in a programme called a CX, as the audiobook creation exchange a cx.com. In United States, not exactly sure what the UK option is, but it's probably.co. But that is a place where you can. And there's some other details about getting in the book onto Amazon and things like that many of your authors probably probably already have their books there. So that makes it simpler. But once once you're there, then you put your book on there with a portion, kind of the key portion that you want to be able to hear that narrator present. And then that is their audition, and you will restart, you will begin receiving auditions, you choose the person that you like, make the arrangements and then they begin the recording process. And that should take you know, roughly a month is you know about the right time depending on how long the book is. Number One thing to remember in audiobooks, and and vocal. It's not page numbers, it's not chapters, it's not page size, or anything like that. It's word count. word count is how you come up with your price. So the average, ballpark is about 9400. But we always just say 10,000 words, is an hour of spoken audio. Yeah. So that is your measurement. So if your book is obviously 100,000 words, it's a 10 hour book, just factor it like that. As far as what the person recording the book, the effort that will go into that it is somewhere between a five to one to an eight to one ratio of time. So eight hours up to eight hours of work can go into producing one hour of your audio book. Because there's the recording process, and that's probably some of the shortest time then there is the editing process, and the mastering process. So then uploading the files to a cx in each chapter and format and things like that. Now, the better ones obviously can do it in the five hour timeframe. But that's that's the kind of effort that you're that you're paying for whatever it is, as far as paying the breakout. There are three options through a cx. And of course, you can make any arrangement with anybody if you can, if you can figure that out. But with a CX, you have three options. First is what is called royalty share. As the author you receive 40% of the sale, you know the sale of the book. When you do a royalty share with your narrator that is split so you get 20% and then the narrator will get 20% or the seven years that it's dedicated to exclusively on Amazon or audible. There's royalty share plus in which you give them that same arrangement plus you pay them an additional amount of per finished hour pFh per finished hour rate. And then there is straight pFh or per finished hour. For instance. My current rate is $300. us pFh. So if it's a 10 hour book, that's $3,000
Wendy Jones:yeah
David White:After that the book is basically finished. And it's uploaded to a CX, in its individual chapters with opening and closings and any other additional chapter information that you want acknowledgments, or whatever. And then it goes through their approval process, and then all of a sudden, it's available online.
Wendy Jones:Yeah. So, I mean, that's bit that is really detailed. So thank you, that's been really helpful. But I want to take it a step further, I just want to say, you know, you've said that we can even no data on audiobook or hire a professional narrator. And what are the pros and cons of each of these options?
David White:I think the number one pro of hiring a narrator is you're hiring someone that's experienced, and has has done it before, they may not be as intimate with, you know, your work of art as you are. But if you if it's written, well, then they catch on pretty quick to to the key things. And that's also a conversation that you can have with directly with him, if you choose to sell the idea of, Okay, this character, this is his background, this is her background, this is whatever, and you can bring them into that world. The other thing, I would say as far as a narrator, I'm sorry, the author doing it would be, again, they know their content, but they may not have experience in the recording booth. And it could take much longer than the eight to one. So that's, that's the consideration, I would I would highly recommend trying it. I would try, I would try it by yourself, then I would try you know, a chapter or so try chapter by yourself, try a chapter with someone who you believe can do a good job of directing you. Because you have to be listening, we go back to the equipment, what do you need, you need the microphone, but you need a good pair of headphones. So you can hear what your mouth is doing all these little weird sounds and, and they're called glottal stops and clicks and things like that that your mouth can make, you'd need to be able to hear that and that's very, again, that's a learned process. But it's not easy to focus on the book, and then also be listening to your voice at the same time. So it's nice to have that director there to just say, okay, your voice did something weird there. Let's let's go back over, you didn't seem to in that sentence on the right inflection. Let's go back into that sentence.
Wendy Jones:Yeah. Now that they're really good points, really. And but I know that, again, you've recently started a programme, where do you train authors to narrate their own audiobooks, which I think is amazing. Can you tell us a bit about this? Absolutely.
David White:I work with a company here in the States called twin flames studios, twin flames. studios.com is where you can find them. What, what they do is we have engineers that will sit on the other end of a digital line with with the author live. And they number one, though, they'll work with the author on understanding how it all works. And some just kind of do some basic training. And then we take them into we'll have them buy some equipment, we recommend some equipment, then we have them go into and create a booth as it were not necessarily a true booth. But here in the here in the States, we have much, much larger closets, then you may have in the UK, but we have. But anyway, a place that you can set up as your recording space or studio, whatever you want to call it. That would allow us a very quiet environment. And that and then they sit with you on the phone, you can hear them in the headphones while you record. And they can give you that direction and instruction from 1000s of miles away.
Wendy Jones:Hey, that's that's really good idea. Actually, I like the sound of that. You know, it's a bit of a partnership. Really, it is.
David White:It's not it's not inexpensive. I mean, it's probably cheaper to just hire narrator. But if you believe that your voice is the voice to carry your story, then then it's well worth it again. You have to think writing the book may not have cost anything but your time and the purchase of a laptop to write it down on a piece of paper or a notebook of paper to to write it down on But it's going to cost some money. And anything that you want done well is going to take a little bit of expense. In that regard, especially when you're, you know, bringing anybody else in to to help you with it. One day, we'll have a society where we all just do things for free for everybody else, but we're not there yet.
Wendy Jones:So we all like eating. That's the problem.
David White:We we do we enjoy, we enjoy our food. And unfortunately, the people who my father asked me, a man asked me one time, are you motivated by money? And I said, No, I'm motivated by spending time with my family and doing a good job at what I do. And my father, my father replied, You, you messed up, he said, You should have said, I, I am not motivated by money. But the people I owe money to are okay. Yes,
Wendy Jones:precisely. While we're talking about money, I mean, I know we've said that there are costs involved in hiring an arranger and things and other any other cost involved in bringing out an audio book.
David White:I think once once you've committed to the idea of buying the equipment to record the book, and or paying a narrator to handle that portion for you. That's, that's a good chunk of the expense. But then after that, obviously, it's it's narration, I don't think you really, you know, and promotion, however you want to have that looks for you. If that's a face book, or whatever, that's that's what it's going to cost outside of outside of doing that, unless you do a royalty share, then you're splitting that royalty. So you're simply not it's not that you're paying money. It's just you're not getting as much money your book sells. And that's, that's a risk. And of course, writing the book was a risk to start with. So it's just a matter of how much how risk averse you may be.
Wendy Jones:He had. Again, I want to ask another question just about technique you want you've got the files and things. How does one go about getting the audiobooks audiobooks on two different platforms? Because you've mentioned Amazon a CX, but there are other platforms as well.
David White:Right? I'm not as familiar with the options in Europe right now. But in the United States, we have an organisation called find a way books, and they are a major distributor of other two other platforms, they can they can function as a just like a CX, does, they can help you find that coordination with your narrator, or producer. There are there are many, many platforms. However, I will say that I believe it's 80% 60 to 80%, I think is the current number. I know that's a big spread is of all audio books sold are on Amazon slash audible.
Wendy Jones:Right? So I'm intrigued just find a way voices and put your book on Amazon as well or does that not happen?
David White:I think they can. I don't. There is a there is a way to get the highest royalty on Amazon, you have to go exclusive. And that is a fairly long term experience. But with find a way you have more outlets, so you're getting a lower percentage on Amazon. But you're, again, you're gaining those other audiences. We have an author here in the Nashville area who is has a brilliant story, but of his of his life. And he does not care about selling it so much. He just wants to be able to get it into people's hands. He is a laser eye surgeon by trade and he just wants to get the story to people. So so we are while we used ACX or the platform and to find the narrator's we're distributing. in all kinds of ways.
Wendy Jones:Yeah, yeah. No, no, again, that's clarified things. So thank you. Now, I'm going to go completely off piste here because I'm absolutely intrigued that you have a collection of vintage belt buckles. And you're the first person I've ever had say that so I've got to ask why vintage tacos.
David White:Well, you know, you have to identify yourself in out in public and I've never really collected anything and this only started about four years ago, but when some people have their crazy socks, some people have their cool shoe laces. Some people have their purse collection or hat collection or whatever it might be, but I chose belt buckles. I am a child of the 70s and that belt, big belt buckles in the in the United States was a big thing. And so I'm looking always for the 90s. And older there. They weren't, they didn't make money in the 90s. But, but a classic arrangement of it's amazing how many you can find on eBay. For for $4, you know, it is more expensive. But there's 1000s and 1000s out there.
Wendy Jones:I've never given a thought before, I'm going to look up eBay in the UK and see if we do this thing here as well.
David White:I would love to so if, if you're out there and listening, and you have some old vintage belt buckles that you would like to get away, give away instead of send them to the tip. Feel free to send those to me here and it's in the state.
Wendy Jones:Sounds fantastic. So it's been lovely chatting to you. But all interviews come to an end, as they say. And my final question, Where can my listeners find you online? Where can they find out about you and your work?
David White:Pretty much everything about me is David Whitevoice. So that's my nstagram. That's my Facebook, hat is my website. So David at avid white voice.com is my mail address. And I'm happy to nswer questions. I enjoy. I njoy talking about this topic. ther things that I do is oiceover and just elearning arration, online training and hings like that. So happy to alk with people about those as ell. But audiobooks, I really njoy talking about audiobooks, nd helping people take their oice that they've you know that hey've transferred to a piece f paper back to a voice that hat can go right into omebody's ears.
Wendy Jones:Brilliant. And I believe that you're setting up an audio arm as well as an audio European arm as well. Is that right?
David White:That is correct. Twin Flame studios is working on a European arm. That is correct. Justin grant is going to be setting up shop. He's from the from the States, but he currently lives in Edinburgh, and he's working on his visa. So we can set up that programme there and help European authors directly through the programmes over there.
Wendy Jones:Wow, that sounds fantastic. Well, thank you very much, David. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you and we've got so much information to help us.
David White:Great. I'm so appreciative of the opportunity to speak with you and your and your listeners and
Wendy Jones:It was absloutley m pleasure. Thank you very
David White:Absolutely.
Wendy Jones:And I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. That brings us to the end of another show. It was really good to have you on the show with me today. I'm Wendy h Jones. And you can find me at Wendy H jones.com. You can also find me on Patreon where you can support me for as little as $3 a month which is less than the price of a tea or coffee. You go to patreon.com forward slash Wendy h Jones. I'm also Wendy h Jones on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest. Thank you for joining me today and I hope you found it both useful and interesting. Join me next week when I will have another cracking guest for you. Until then, have a good week and keep writing. Keep reading and keep learning