What is it about the third age that makes it ripe for trying new adventures? Today I speak to Nanette Fairley of WhatNextOlogy about writing in the third age.
What is it about the third age that makes it ripe for trying new adventures? Today I speak to Nanette Fairley of WhatNextOlogy about writing in the third age.
Hi, and welcome to the writing and Marketing Show brought to you by author Wendy H. Jones. This show does exactly what it says on the tin. It's jam packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news to help you with the business of writing. It's all wrapped up in one lively podcast. So it's time to get on with the show. And welcome to Episode 80 of the writing and Marketing Show with author entrepreneur, Wendy h. Jones. Don't you just love random numbers, I'm getting so excited because we really are sneaking up towards that magical 100th episode, and won't be long. And I've got great plans coming up for people to have on the show. And we've got some cracking guests coming up. But today we're going to be talking to net fairly of what next dollar J. And we're going to be talking about writing in your Third Age, an exciting topic, I think, because you know, more and more people are doing different things later in life, and why not become a writer. So what's been happening in Wendy's world this week? Well, I've managed to get out in our boat a little bit, I'm writing up a storm. I'm running a writing course a six week writing course, which is introduction to writing your book, which was going well, I'm going to be running it again later if you want to join in later in the year. But this was just an experiment with a six week course and students are loving it and learning a lot. And I'm enjoying doing that because it's partly live. But also it's going to be an online course where you'll be able to buy the materials, or buy the course should I say not buy the materials and get access to all the materials. So late exciting. I've always got new ventures coming up. Next week, I'm going to be away. So I'll be recording next week's podcast in advance, because I'm off to do a writing retreat for a week. Although I am staying in a cottage owned by author maresa Mortimer and I interviewed her on the blog of the blog on the podcast not so long ago. And I'm going to be staying in a holiday cottage near her and catching up with her and her family as well. So it's going to be a nice week away next week. And I'm hoping not to be interviewing for the podcast next week. But it will you will still be listening to it. So before we get on with today's show, I would like to say it's an absolute honour and pleasure to bring you every week but it does take time out of my writing time. Also strains my voice as you can probably hear, but if you would like to support this time, then you can do so by going to patreon.com forward slash Wendy h Jones that's pa t ar e or n.com forward slash went h Jones and you can do so for as little as $3 a month, which is the price of a tea or coffee a month and I would be very grateful and it would let me know you're enjoying what I'm doing and that you want me to continue with it. So what about net on the shore today? Well ninette fairly. Plans for her Third Age which involve travelling and slow more around the globe are currently on hold with the current health crises. However, she's been so lucky to be spending COVID non travel time in Australia with her family something as an expert she's not done in 28 plus years of business psychologist by training net has more than 30 years experience in the corporate world primarily in management consulting and the aviation industry. Her role has varied from culture and change management to supporting individuals make the most of their talents and careers through leadership development, talent management and development developmental assessment. Since leaving full time employment net founded what next ology a resource for those wanting to make the most of their life after full time work and family commitments. WhatNextOlogy provides community support ideas and inspiration for those planning their what's next in their third age. To find out more about what next ology and how it may be able to support you. You can go to 1x dollar g.com. So without further ado, let's get on with the show. And let's hear from Annette. And we have Nanette with us. Hi Nanette How are you?
Nanette Fairley:I'm well today Wendy How are you?
Wendy Jones:I am very well if I call you Annete I'm sorry because my next door neighbor's called Annete so I'm getting very confused. I believe you're very relaxed because you've just got back off holiday, haven't you?
Nanette Fairley:I have yes I've been hiking in Montenegro. So I feel very proud. privileged to be able to travel at this time. In the pandemic's, though, yes, it was great,
Wendy Jones:how lovely. Well, you know, I'm very honoured that you decided to join me straight from your holiday. So it's great. And it really is a pleasure to have you on the show, Ned. So do this. Thank you for joining us. And as I say, at the end of your holiday, so shall we start by clarifying a few things just so that we're all clear. We're talking about writing in the Third Age today. So what is considered to be the Third Age? And to be honest, why has this term suddenly become so popular?
Nanette Fairley:Well, let me define it first. So there is a sociologist, a historian called Peter Laszlo, who is his British, and he came up with this model of ages of life now you can agree with it or not. But he described as a way of thinking about our life in in part. So the first part he called your first stage is when you're, you're in education. So you're learning, you're still quite dependent on your parents, perhaps you're doing a lot of socialising at that time of your life. Then your second age, you're out working. So you've got a bit of independence, you've got a bit of maturity, you're, you're working, you're earning money, but you've got responsibilities. You've got a lot of responsibilities, perhaps kids, perhaps a mortgage. Later in that stage, perhaps you've got eldercare and looking after older parents. Then comes your Third Age. So this is when we step out of our full time work commitments. Perhaps we're no longer akili responsible for childcare. And we're kind of looking forward to that. That real flexible time after full time employment where we've perhaps got the most choice that we've ever had in our life. And then comes the fourth age. And Peter Lazarus describes that as decrepitude dependence, and I like to use the last word. So the Third Age is really about making the most of that time after your, after you leave full time employment or after you leave those full time commitments of childcare or eldercare. And for some people, that transition is a bit challenging, they might lose their identity, they might find that they're a bit all out at sea without the structure of a workplace and other commitments. So this, this whole area of Third Age and making the most of that is becoming quite popular. The other thing is we're living longer, windy. So before we had maybe 10 years or 11 years on average, due to the due to you know, statistics that we would actually live maybe 10 or 11 years, but some of us now are living 20 and 30 years into our retirement. So I think that's another reason why third ages become important.
Wendy Jones:Excellent. Well, I like the sound of the Third Age, but I'm not entirely keen on this fourth age business decrepitude.
Nanette Fairley:That's the word he uses. But um, yeah, I plan to stay in my Third Age just as long as I can.
Wendy Jones:Well, I'm going to stay in my Third Age till the minute I die. I don't fancy this decrepitude. But I think I'll just bypass that. Thank you very much. Anyway, moving swiftly onwards from us being going into decrepitude. It's clear from what you're saying that people in the Third Age often have more time on their hands. Now I'm sure a lot of them will find time they'll be able to fill it. But why should they consider writing?
Nanette Fairley:Well, I think that when you get to this point in your life, you've gotten a lot of wisdom, you've had a lot of great experiences. And you've just got stories to tell. So I think that that's really the main reason you know, then it might be that you've got all kinds of stories to tell. And you've got a different lens on it that perhaps you had when you're in your 20s or 30s, or 40s. So, you know, people who start writing in their 60s in their 70s and their 80s. And there are a lot of them. They they bring something different to the table, I think, but the main reason is, you've got a great story to tell, so get it out there.
Wendy Jones:Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. You know, I wasn't going yeah, I think I wasn't my third day besides retired by retire deadly when I started writing full time. So hey, you know, I would agree with you if you've got a story to tell you want to tell it. So, what would you say to anyone who said to you, I'm not sure I can do it?
Nanette Fairley:Well, there's quite a lot of research into people being successful in in ageing and being successful and enjoying their third age and apart Part of it is continuing to stay curious continuing to learn. So I would say, it doesn't matter if you've never written anything in your life, get out there and do some learning and and give it a go, you've got the time, you've got the interest and the energy to do it. And there's so many ways to learn, you can do an online course on how to write in the particular genre that you're interested in. You can do a lot, you know, tutorials, etc, you can do what I'm doing, which is working with you, Wendy, with the author printers Academy, which I absolutely love, because I'm working with other, I get to interact with other writers. And I get to interact with you as an extremely experienced writer, and also an editor and someone who's been in the industry for a long time. So I think it's important not to say that, you know, I've never done it in my life, so I can't do it. Now, staying curious, continuing to learn is really good for your cognitive health as you age. And there's lots of different ways that you can learn. So just just have the confidence and have a start.
Wendy Jones:Absolutely, I mean, I agree with what you're saying, Thank you for being so nice about the Academy. Glad you enjoy it. And but I agree, you know, that you can learn other ways of learning. But when people say to me as well, I don't think I can do it. Well, unless you try, you'll never know, you know, it's not scuba diving, or jumping off a cliff or jumping out of an aeroplane, you know, it's, it's, it's quite a safe endeavour, you know, you might die of, you know, the fact that you're sitting around too much, but you're not gonna, you know, die from it. So give it a go. Is, is something and to be honest, you can write in so many different ways, you know, so Yeah, I would agree with everything. You're saying. Give it a go? Yeah,
Nanette Fairley:absolutely. And I think, you know, don't show your first draft to someone who's going to pull it apart? Absolutely. Again, you know, and I'm doing this general, genuinely, that's one of the reasons I like, having you read what I write, because you're so encouraging, like, I don't feel like what I've written is, is being pulled apart by a Pulitzer Prize winner. It's just a really encouraging environment. So if you're starting, what I would suggest to your listeners who are starting writing for the first time is, is just fine. That encouraging environment, whether it be a community college, or whether it be an online course, or working with someone like you, just the encouragement, I think goes a long way as well.
Wendy Jones:Yeah, I mean, that helps. And to be honest, it's been encouraging because I was encouraged by people when I first started out, you know, so I try to, to pay it forward, as they say, you know, because we're all here to help each other. And there are groups out there that you can find that are physical groups you can go to, there were physical groups, you could go to it in the middle of a pandemic, so not many of them are running at the moment. But a lot of them are online, you know, and you can't join them. So yeah, finding a group can really help and you make new friends, which is great. Absolutely, yeah. I'm curious, are there any types of writing that are particularly suited to, to to writing during this life phase, now that I'm saying you can't write anything at any age, of course, because whatever you want to write, you can write.
Nanette Fairley:I would set I would agree with you in that you can write anything, if you've got a, you know, a fiction or nonfiction if you've got a historical fiction that you're interested in. But perhaps one that is, is really well suited is writing memoir, memoirs, or biographies or autobiographies he got, sorry.
Wendy Jones:Say that word I get mixed up all the time. Sorry, you're not asked me to say what's a biography? And what's an autobiography? Because I couldn't tell you the difference. So we're all there. We're all there Nanette,
Nanette Fairley:absolutely. So in a kind of stories, or maybe your own story, you've done some really interesting things in your life, you could perhaps tell that story to share with your grandchildren. Potentially, you could tell stories of your family. So I know a lot of people in the Third Age really like to research their genealogy. And while they're doing that, they find some really interesting stories, those stories need to be told. So perhaps the memoir is a little bit more suited. But I would say like you don't be restricted. If you've got a sci fi book in you, then then write it. But I think that the memoir kind of genre is perhaps particularly interesting in your Third Age.
Wendy Jones:Yeah, I would agree with that. I'm going to tell you a little story here. And I'm sorry, it were meant to be interviewing you. But there's an interesting story. And I when I was nursing, I wrote a chapter for a nursing textbook, and I was going to bepublished I was quite excited that I was going to be the first person in my family that ever been published. Except I was bitten by one day by my 92 year old grandmother, who brought out a chapter in a book about the women that worked in the jute mills in Dundee. And she worked in the jute Mills, and she was a very good Weaver. Very good. She was one of the top weavers she could do three Mills. And that was unheard of three looms at the same time, sorry, not Mills. And she brought out her chapter about all of this the day before me, so hey, I was beaten to it. And she was 92. So, you know, I believe anyone can
Nanette Fairley:impressive I can see where you got your talents from them.
Wendy Jones:I've still got the book with her chapter in it. I haven't got the book that I was in with the nursing chapter, because it's out of date. Now it's gone. They've been I've got hers. Happiness. So I would agree, you know, stories like that are so good to have for future generations, because not that I've got any children but other grandchildren of hers, and great grandchildren and great great grandchildren will be able to read that and say, Well, this was your relative, this is what they did. You know?
Nanette Fairley:No, I think about my grandparents, my two grandfathers and my grandmother's were amazing as well. But my grandfather's did some really interesting things in the war. Now they've both passed away. So have my grandmother's. And I think it's kind of sad that when my aunts and uncles pass away, and they're all in the 80s, that those stories have kind of lost. So it's, it's a good thing to be able to, just to capture and tell those stories, so that kids and grandkids, as you say, really get to know the person, perhaps more than they did, I didn't know some of the stories about my grandfather's until after they passed away.
Wendy Jones:I know, it's, I mean, I didn't know my grandmother was such a talented Weaver until I read this chapter in the book. And I was like, you know, when you say 40 odd years, why did I not know that? You know, so. So what is it about the Third Age that makes it so right for trying new things?
Nanette Fairley:I think you've got a lot less pressure and a lot more flexibility. That's one thing. So you're no longer having to go out, you know, full time work, juggle kids or juggle, you know, paying the mortgage, or whatever it is, you know, you've got a lot more time. And I also think that it's a time for exploration and being curious. So hopefully, this is when if you've got a story to tell, and I truly believe we all do, that you've got the time and the headspace that where it can come out. So I think it's more about you know, less pressure, more time, more flexibility. And if you are interested in writing, here's your opportunity. And I'm sure you said this when you were working full time, Wendy and I know I certainly did before I left full time employment, I'll do that when I retire. I'll do that when I retire. So much. Hey, there, when you're in your Third Age, you no longer have those those those significant commitments, so you can do other things and writings one of them.
Wendy Jones:I agree totally. You know, when I say I was fortunate, I retired early I retires early because of ill health, but my health is fine now. So I've recovered from whatever the problem was. But, you know, I thought, well, I really am going to do what I want to do. No, because it's time. It's my time. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. So I want to unpack memoir for a minute, because we've been discussing that. And it's one of the obvious choices, as you've said, for those who start the writing career later on in life. What would be your advice to anyone who wants to write their life story?
Nanette Fairley:I would say do it absolutely. Every everyone has a story to tell. If you're asking a bit more technically kind of what what should you do. So first of all, I would encourage you to research around the time that you're you're talking about. So don't just talk perhaps about how you saw something or what was happening in your life, but talk about what was happening in your community or your country or the world at that time, because that could be an interesting overlay. I would also say interview your siblings and your friends from that that period because they'll have a different lens on your story. And that will bring something really interesting as well to your story. And and be courageous because sometimes we have stories that you know, perhaps they've been buried for the last 35 or 40 years and now You're perhaps letting Pandora's box open. But be courageous because you know, some stories are just so interesting for other people, we don't see that they are ourselves because their stories about us or our family. When in what would you add? I know I feel funny talking about technical writing, when I'm talking to you
Wendy Jones:I think you've hit the nail on the head, because you've said earlier as well, you've said, you know, do research around the time, but you do the search around your family as well, because you will learn so much about your family it didn't know. And even using the genealogy sites and things you can learn a lot about what happened in your family history. And you know what, It was brilliant. I love your answer, because I loved what you said about Be courageous, you know, you might be you know, a very, you know, upright person who's, you know, been married to a government minister for the last, you know, 60 years or 50 years and you think, Oh, well, I'm This is now the time. I've got to talk about me being a, you know, a Can Can girl in Paris? You know, I was I was actually int the Special Operations Executive during the Second World War. And I haven't told anybody that, you know, I love that thought that that's brilliant. Just as the best answer I've ever heard on this show, Be courageous. I can think of all sorts of things that people might come up with. So thank you nanette, you know, just bang on Be courageous. I love it.
Nanette Fairley:Yeah, you know, and I think, you know, we talk about, we might be writing the story to help our grandkids or our great cat grandkids understand our lives or our family in a bit more detail. And that's a part of it, no matter you know, if it's Kim Kim dancing in Paris, or, you know, you remind me My mother used to when she was a teenager, she used to work in a cinema. And then every time the cinema closed at whatever time there was 10 or 11. At night, she would go dancing every single night. I'd love to hear the stories from her dancing nights, because surely she met some interesting people. And surely, there's a lot to tell, but I only found out that fairly recently. And I don't know the stories of her dancing night after night in big dance halls in Australia. So be courageous. Absolutely. I would say,
Wendy Jones:I love it. That's that's the answer. I'm going to answer that for everything. Be courageous. I'm going to put it above my, my desk in my office. Be courageous. I love it. So can you tell us a bit about your own interest in the Third Age?
Nanette Fairley:Yeah, um, so I left full time employment as a, you know, a younger retiree, I hate the word retiree. I don't like the word retirement, which is why I use Third Age, retirement sounds like you've been put out to pasture. And you and and we're tired. And we we don't have any more value to add. And I look at you, particularly when they look at myself, I look at some of the other people that are in your writers groups. And oh, my God, we have gone a hell of a lot more to give to to life and to the community into the world. So how I got interested is a couple of things. First of all, I was working all the hours that God gave. And I was saying a lot when I finished full time work when I retire when I retire was I felt like I was putting my life on hold, because it was all about work. So that was a first thing. Secondly, I really started reading about long, all the longitudinal studies into ageing, and I was really interested in health span, which is how well you live rather than lifespan how long you live, you know, who wants to live to 115 if the last 25 years are in decrepitude, as we spoke about at the beginning of this podcast. So I got really interested in improving my health span, and what I need to do to be healthier longer. So that was a next thing. Then, within my family, there has been a lot of cancer touchwood my immediate family members are all still with us. But there's been quite a lot of cancer. And I thought, you know, I didn't want to work 20 you know, 24, seven for 38 years, and then maybe not get to do whatever the next for me. So, for me, it was a number of things that kind of come together, you know, had no life. started getting interested in health span had a few health scares in my family that really made me question. And then I also had an experience a number of experience where I were working, I was working with senior guys who were leaving full time employment moving into retirement or whatever they call it, and just not enjoy It. So that transition part after that, you know, they played golf for three months, then they felt that they were one guy described it to me as he felt all at sea. So I was I kind of put all of that together and it was three or four years in the plan. People say to me all Did you just leave work overnight. And I absolutely didn't. Three, four years in the plan, but I set up what next ology which is my, my car and my little online business, I started doing some writing with you, I really focus on my health span. And I'm travelling as much as I can, when we have a pandemic going on.
Wendy Jones:Same problem.
Nanette Fairley:I think the biggest catalyst for me was starting to read the research into successful ageing, and wanting more than this, this really demanding career that that that took every or every minute of my life, it seemed.
Wendy Jones:And I know the feeling, you know, I was glad to retire and get to be writing now I've got a minute to myself, but at least I'm choosing what to do. Now, my employer,
Nanette Fairley:absolutely, you know, that flexibility is wonderful for us to choose to do, you know, whatever we like I'm doing a little bit of charity work for, for silverfit, which is a charity in the UK that helps older people socialise, and stay healthy. And when I was working full time, you know, just wouldn't have had the bandwidth to be able to get involved in things like that, that I'm really interested in and passionate about. So I'm super interested in in what we can do with our food age.
Wendy Jones:No, I agree. I think it's a fascinating topic. And you know, if people want to write as well, hey, I think that's even more fascinating. But it doesn't have to be writing, you know, this is a writing and marketing podcast, but whatever people want to do, you should embrace it. You know, I know I was saying things, daft things like it's not scuba diving or jumping out of a plane hack, if that's what you want to do, do it. Do it lightly. And that's that, as you say, you've got the flexibility. This is I know, you're one of the authors in the book, creativity matters. And I know that because I'm, I'm the person compiling it. So can you tell us a little bit about your chapter?
Nanette Fairley:Yeah, it's it's a lot about what we talked about today. So why you might think about writing in your Third Age, why you need to quell those voices in your head that say that you can't do it, and you're not a writer, because you do have a great story to tell. It also talks about who else in their third age has written amazing books. And you when your listeners read it, they will see that, you know, they're really famous people who didn't start writing until their 60s 70s and 80s. So really, my chapter is about giving people another option of things to do in their third age, writing.
Wendy Jones:Well, and I think it's great that the lifetime president of the Scottish association of writers whose name has completely escaped me right now, which is dreadful, because she's a lovely level of was a lovely lady. And she died during my presidency. And she she was in her 90s, late 90s. And she was still writing, she was still bringing books. So every year, she was amazing. And I feel terrible for having forgotten her name. I feel dreadful, I probably shouldn't even brought it up. But you know, I want to be her. I want to be her. I want to be writing to the last minute, I want to be enjoying life to the last minute. So all podcasts come to an end, I'm afraid. And so my final question, Where can my readers find out more about you?
Nanette Fairley:Absolutely. So as well as reading the book, creativity matters. You can go to my my website, which is whatnextology.com or just send me an email because I'd love to connect with anyone that's listening. And you know, just have a conversation on email, or we could jump on a zoom. nanette@whatnextology.com
Wendy Jones:Fine, fantastic. And I've remembered the name of the lifetime president the Scottish Association of Writers It was a Allanah Knight. If anybody from the Scottish association of writers is listening, forgive me. Forgive me. I'm entering decreptitude today, I think I
Nanette Fairley:I don't think so. But she sounds absolutely amazing. And I think you all need role models like that. Particularly, I think, when we're in our second age, and we're really slogging through and it can be tough when we're paying off a mortgage and bringing up kids. It can be tough, so to have role models in their third age, like Ilana, I think is really motivating for a lot of people. So write your story so that you can motivate others.
Wendy Jones:Absolutely. And she wrote her own story as well. So it was good. But we're talking about you today. Not baout the wonderful Allanah. And so thank you very much Nanette for joining me. It's been a pleasure and you listen, you've brought up the best thing I've ever heard in a podcast ever be courageous. You know, it's worth listening just for that, but everything else was amazing as well. So thank you.
Nanette Fairley:Thanks, Wendy. I always enjoy talking to you and absolutely from learning from you. So I look forward to the future.
Wendy Jones:Enjoy the rest of your day. Bye. Bye. That brings us to the end of another show. It was really good to have you on the show with me today. I'm Wendy h Jones. And you can find me at Wendy H jones.com. You can also find me on Patreon where you can support me for as little as $3 a month which is less than the price of a tea or coffee. You go to patreon.com forward slash Wendy h Jones. I'm also went to h Jones on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest. Thank you for joining me today and I hope you found it both useful and interesting. Join me next week when I will have another cracking guests for you. Until then, have a good week and keep writing. Keep reading and keep learning