In the second of my two part series on taking bold steps in the publishing industry I speak to the owner of a brand new bookshop, Barnabas Christian Bookshop, in Dundee. We talk about making brave decisions and how bookshop managers and authors can work more closely together to put on events that reach the reading public.
In the second of my two part series on taking bold steps in the publishing industry I speak to the owner of a brand new bookshop, Barnabas Christian Bookshop, in Dundee. We talk about making brave decisions and how bookshop managers and authors can work more closely together to put on events that reach the reading public.
Hi, and welcome to the writing and Marketing Show brought to you by author Wendy H. Jones. This show does exactly what it says on the tin. It's jam packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news to help you with the business of writing. It's all wrapped up in one lively podcast, so it's time to get on with the show. And welcome to episode eight to eight of the writing and Marketing Show with author, entrepreneur, Wendy h. Jones, I am pleased to report that I'm feeling so much better, I've got a lot more energy. And I really am writing up a storm which I'm very excited about. And today's show is going to be the second part of our series, I'm doing our two part series really last week I spoke to you, I spoke to someone who set up a publishing chocolate company during the pandemic. And today, I'm talking to mark Buchanan, who set up a brand new book shop in the midst of a pandemic. So everything is going against the flow. And this is what I'm talking about. For the two week series is people who are not frightened to take a risk people who are stepping out and looking at their dreams and moving things forward despite what's happening in the world. And I'm very excited about that. And I wanted to bring this passion to you in this way. So before we tell you about mark, and I would like to say that it's a pleasure of bringing you this show every week, as I say, and I love doing it, but it does take time out of my writing. If you would like to support that time, you can do so on patreon.com. That's pa t ar e o n.com. forward slash Wendy h Jones. And you will be able to do so for about $3 a month and$3 a month is the price of a tea of coffee. It would be just show you that you enjoy the show you want me to continue and I would be extremely grateful. So what have Mark Well, Mark is was the bookshop manager of the CLC bookshop in Dundee. And the CLC, bookshop, unfortunately was closed down. And it was closed down by someone way above mark. And he was the manager. But he decided that he really wanted to see a Christian bookshop in Dundee. He didn't want to lose that from the city. So he and his wife Danny, and his now his lovely baby Charlotte, who you will hear in the episode. And our they set up their own shop. And it's been running now for about three weeks, two or three weeks, and I'm very pleased to bring him on. And he's not only a lovely guy, but he knows the bookshop trade inside out. So without further ado, let's get on with the show. And let's hear from Mark pewter. And we have mark with us today. Hi, Mark, how are you?
Mark Buchanan:We're very well thank you, Wendy, how are you doing?
Wendy Jones:I'm very well. And even better, Because you brought Charlotte with you? Oh, yes. Hello. Charlotte says
Mark Buchanan:Charlotte is our three month old little girl.
Wendy Jones:You're a very bright gotta learn you, Charlotte. Anyway, this is the first for the writing and Marketing Show because it's the first time we've actually had a baby on the show. so fantastic. It's lovely to see you, Mark and Charlotte. So, I mean, I've never heard of a shore with a baby on it before. I know somebody brings a cat to the recordings, but never a baby. I hope Charlotte knows the answers to the question. So that's the only thing
Mark Buchanan:Right. Most of them i think i think i think we might be able to work out some of them.
Wendy Jones:What a clever little girl. Right? Let's ask you questions, because we're going to be talking today about the fact that you've opened a bookshop in the midst of a pandemic. So it's an era where big shops seem to be causing daily, and you've bucked the trend in the new one. I mean, what was the thought process and decision making that brought you to that point?
Mark Buchanan:Well, really, I mean, we, we manage the CLC book shop here in Dundee for six years before the closed. And during that time, I really felt God speaking to me and saying, you need to step in here. You need to step out in faith. I really felt called to the shop ministry, I really see it as a ministry rather than a business. And it was very, very clear that God had called me to that. So the next step really, really was to look at an independent bookshop or some kind of option where we could replace the bookshop. That was all already existing. So Christmas 2019, we heard that CLC bookshop here in Dundee was closing. My wife and I prayed about it long and hard, actually. And we really felt God saying, then you need to step forward if there's nothing else available and needs to be used. So we looked at the options and a small independent bookshop that was based in a church really seemed like the ideal option for us.
Wendy Jones:I think it's fab idea. Because, I mean, as we were going to talk about this a bit later on, but I think you know, bookshops but they're so important, they really are important. And I think they were even more important during lockdown. Yeah. So that takes me on to my next question, actually was why do you feel it's important to keep a Christian bookshop presence in a city such as Dundee,
Mark Buchanan:really, it's, it's a ministry, to resource the local church with good resources that are being selected as is really quite important. Often, people will find in church that, yeah, the Minister can suggest different books and different things for them. But more often than not, they read, they read things that sometimes are not really appropriate for them. And we don't want to censor them at all. But we do want to guide people into reading good Christian literature. And, and using that, you know, for the advancement of, of the kingdom, that's really, really important. So really, our our aim to resource the local Christian Church. So that's, that's the real aim. Aim behind behind Barnabas, Christian bishop. That's really what our focus is.
Wendy Jones:I think Christian book shops are important. It's not to say, you know, pastors and ministers will, will say to people, oh, you might want to read this book, you know, but not every book is going to be suitable for every reader, you know, so they might do one say on money. But there might be the books that have been recommended might not resonate with them. But another one might, you know, and I think choice is important as well. Definitely, definitely. Yeah. So if someone felt they should be opening up a bookshop, what systems do they have to have in place to do that?
Mark Buchanan:Well, I think first, first and foremost, really, they need to make sure that they are able to keep that bookshop sustainable. And they need to make sure that they're able to staff it for reasonable hours throughout the week. So for example, we were opening between 10 and four, Monday to Saturday. And for the most part, we're running on volunteer staff, but it's really, really important for us that we keep to those hours, because a bookshop really should be open for when people need that workshop, we can't just be open for a couple of hours, you know, in the middle of the day, I think it's really, really key to keep that bookshop open for as long as you possibly can. We were previously open with the CLC bookshop, 9.30 to 5.30. And the 9.30 was fine. But certainly stretching to 5.30 was quite often a challenge. Because often, we had quite a lot of customers who prefer to come in well before four o'clock. So we really need to make sure that we keep those hours, open as best we can. In terms of other you know, if we're looking at systems like computer systems and things like that, it's really important, we have a point of sale system that actually works really well. One that volunteers can easily use as well, quite often we find that we've got a point of sale system that volunteers and staff actually find quite difficult. And it might be because of the back office, more than the actual sale screens, but but sometimes it can be a quite a challenge for them to learn something new. That can be that can be quite a lot of wasted time, actually, when actually you could just get a slightly easier system might not be quite as advanced as some of the others. But one, it will probably save you money. And also it will help your staff because it's a much simpler, easy to use system.
Wendy Jones:Now that's key actually, because of the staff can't the volunteers can't, you know, use it or it's, you go nowhere, really, because they have to be able to manage it. It needs to be manageable by everybody. So it's good points that you need to think about, you know, opening our staffing and you also need to think about the management of things to make sure that things run smoothly. Because thing is if you don't run smoothly, we all know that a customer I'll just go I can't wait No, just leave it in. And they'll leave the books behind. You
Mark Buchanan:know, another another key really, we've we found not just through my own experience with CLC. But even since then our customer orders, for example, when a customer orders a book from you, you really have a system in place. So that that order doesn't just stay sitting in a folder not being ordered, we need to make sure that every day orders are checked, they're ordered. Now, sometimes you might need to create an order for a supplier, you know, suppliers have minimum orders, we need to make sure that we don't overspend with suppliers. So sometimes, you might need to create an order together over a period of time. But you need to make that customer aware of that, that actually, sometimes the order meetic, a few more days to arrive, it's really important to keep the customer up to date, as well, with a small order. I mean, I've ordered books before, from inside shops, different shops, independent shops, brick chains. And sometimes sometimes it's been a couple of months down the line, before I even heard from them. And I can understand that sometimes a book can stay on backorder for quite a long time with a supplier. But you need to keep your customer up to date. That's really, really important at least once a week. I think that's that's really quite reasonable. And be honest with them, you know, don't make up an excuse, because they can see through it. Just be honest with them and say, Hey, this has taken a little bit longer for my supplier than we expected. We are expecting on such a such a date.
Wendy Jones:So you agree with that Charlotte do you have? Yeah, it's really important to actually that we that we do think of the customer. And because you know, people's expectations have changed. And they've changed because of Did I say Amazon, where everything seems to appear within 24 hours.
Mark Buchanan:It's an instant marketplace. Yeah. Stock choice really does help. And I think we're probably going to go well go on to that and a little bit. Stock choice really is quite a key factor. If you can stock, your best sellers, a new titles, almost an expectation from your local customers. You know, if a customer is expecting you to stop, for example, the latest sinckler Ferguson book, yeah, then really, you should make sure that you have that in stock, just as it's released. And that's really, really key. Now we've we've fallen foul of that before where we haven't had certain books in stock. And you know, ministers highlighted them and all these kind of things. You need to make sure that you're speaking to local ministers and asking them by highlighting any books, what books are they? Do you want us to run any special offers on them? How much of the pressure you're going to give them? Because we can we can order 10 books. But if we only sell one of those, we wasted money? Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really important to have that relationship with with local ministers and people who are recommending books so that you can stock the right quantity. And you can have an easy, easy, easy sell basically, then,
Wendy Jones:yeah, no, that's that's really good. I mean, locations, I want you to talk to me about location, because I'm wondering how important is location for the shop? And how did it play into your decision making.
Mark Buchanan:Normally, I would say that location is probably the most important aspect. But in today's marketplace, I'm finding that more people are willing to actually travel to either a good, good bookshop, a good coffee shop, for example. Rather than actually just go to somewhere that's convenient. We, we were in an ideal location, when we were with CLC. Right in the middle of the city centre, across the road from a very, very busy shopping centre and a busy church. It was really, really a great location. However, that has to be balanced with the overheads, the overheads, the least cost for being in that location is quite high. And that's something that really you need to balance well with your business plan. If you don't have in your business plan an allowance for a lease that is that expensive, then you every single year you're going to be struggling to meet that lease. And all that's going to do is it's going to impact your business negatively to the point where actually you're running a deficit. And that's that's really, really not not a good thing. We need to make sure that any business just because it's a Christian business, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be sustainable, that it shouldn't meet all its demands. We need to make sure when we're running a Christian business, especially, that actually we are doing business well. That's really, really key key example of what we need to do.
Wendy Jones:No, that's really good. Sorry, carry on,
Mark Buchanan:where we are just know, we are based at City church Dundee, which is an old Franciscan friar building, and city church newfrontiers. Church bought over a number of years ago. And the location itself is quite a sprawling location, it's got lots of space, we've got we've got a nice small manageable space, a nice bookshop. And what's better, it's it's within spitting distance of the city centre, within a few minutes drive, we've got a good car park, which is free, which is fantastic. on a Thursday, the church runs a community Kathy so you know, there's, there's there's a little bit going for in terms of the the community space as well. It really does add on to the experience that actually, it's not just a bookshop, location, it's a location where different ministries are working, where the church has different things going on. It's really quite the heart of the community, I think that's really quite a key. Okay, we're not in the middle of the high street anymore. But we're in amongst a community that we can serve. I think if we take that seriously enough, we realise that we're not losing anything by not being in the city centre, we're actually making quite a big gain, because we're in amongst where people are living their lives. Not many people live their lives in the city centre these days, unless you're in a much, much bigger city. Whereas in a small community, like like we're in here, actually, it makes a huge difference to not just our business, but also look at the relationship that we have with people as well.
Wendy Jones:Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, the city centres are, you know, dying really everywhere. And people are going to different areas now to shop the shopping one locally. So I think having a local Christian bookshop is a really good idea. It's, you know, I think you're right, it's key to be in the heart of the community if you're serving the community. So I want I'm very, I'm curious, I'm a reader and I come in and I buy all sorts of books from you. But how do you go about selecting stock?
Mark Buchanan:Oh, a very long and laborious process. Often we, we focus on bestsellers and new titles. So for example, with this new Christian bookshop, Barnabas, we really felt that it was important that the stock was very focused, it's going to be a small amount of stock. But that was focused on best selling titles that were reliable, and new titles. And that that was changed regularly enough that it was a good turn over all those titles. You know, new titles are not new titles for six months, the new titles for a few weeks, most. And I think we need to be aware of that, that means that we're going to have a faster turnaround, and sometimes something that was a new title a month ago, we might need to start trying to shift and maybe not stocking it. Because it won't be a new title forever. So when when it came to choosing the stock, we had an idea of some bestsellers from from our own background, and from things that we were reading as well. But really, the new titles is what to quite a lot of work, you need to be in touch with publishers do quite a bit of research into different catalogues and things like that, and filter through a lot, a lot of material. And I think sometimes that can be quite challenging, because you don't want to just dismiss a book based on its cover, for example. Sometimes you miss a really, really good book, because you've looked at the cover you thought, well, that could be better, no thanks. We need to be careful not to do that. That being said, is one of the first things that does draw. Certainly a buyer, whether it's a customer or someone who's buying for a business is one of the first things that attracts you to that product. Something like a very great book clear book really is quite key. I mean, a couple of years ago, I remember a lot of publishers started producing books that were quite dark covers, you know, blob, blacks and greys and they look nice, they were good covers, but They were very plain. And when you put a display of those different publishers together, you realise that actually your shelves were quite dark. Nothing was catching your attention at all. So for us, we need to be aware that, you know, if there's, if there's a mixture of Christian living titles, for example, we don't want all the same covers look all the same, we want covers that are actually going to stand out a little bit more, the customer is going to be able to see the title nice and clearly. And they're going to be able to look at the cover. And to some extent, they're going to be able to tell what that book is about straight away. And that's really, really key for us. So yeah, bestsellers, new titles. We do, we do pick certain authors out every so often. That's really, really important for us. But really focusing on those new titles and having a good turnaround of those is really key.
Wendy Jones:So who are your evergreen authors you turn to, and you've already spoken about how important it is to include new offers and books within your offering. Because I think that's important. The reason I asked that is this is the writing and Marketing Show. So we need to talk about authors as well. But you know, who are your evergreen authors? And how do you make the decision about the new authors
Mark Buchanan:in the in the Christian trade? Yeah, you can go to, you know, the likes of Tim Keller, Tom Wright, Francine rivers, for fiction, different apologists, for example, locally, we, we would we would favour the likes of David Robertson, Andy Bannister, and these kind of things sinkler Ferguson, these are kind of our go to ones, but that will, that will be determined quite often by your location. You know, if you've got a popular author living locally, then obviously you'd want to try and stock their material over the key. So there are quite a few evergreen authors that we will look at. That would depend on the genre. So for example, going back to fiction, yeah, Francine rivers, Lynn Austin. Joel Rosenberg has been fantastic the last few last decades, really. But we also need to make sure that in amongst those evergreen authors, we're actually giving new authors chance to flourish. I think that's really, really important, especially in fiction biography, because whose, whose genres are so vast, we can be stocking hundreds upon hundreds of books, by different authors. But we need to make sure that it's not just the same author again, and again, that you're looking at. So we've really, we've allowed for some space in our bookshop, that we could have local authors, but also some new authors who people maybe have not heard of at all, I think it's really quite quite nice to be able to discover a new author. And even better when you realise that they've actually written more than one book. Yes. You read one, and you think all the written more fantastic. And that's just send you on a trend of reading five or six books in a row, which is really, really enjoyable. So yeah, given giving a local authors, space isn't important. And new authors. I think that's really, really key. And I think as well, there's, there's a relationship to build there between a bookseller and an author. Yeah. Especially with a local author, if you can build a relationship with them. Where there's a partnership, yes, they're, they're highlighting stock to you, what you've also got their book recommendations as well. Because authors are some of the most prolific readers that are around. So it's really important to be able to say, oh, what are you eating just now? because quite often, you can actually gain some insight or knowledge on most of what's popular and, and what what's selling because a lot of authors have got their fingers on the pulse. They know what they're looking for. And they know what they want to be writing. So I think it's really, really quite key.
Wendy Jones:I know, you raise good points there, because authors are the most prolific readers of anybody, you know, because they read and read and read and write as well. So I want to move on to events, because over the past two years events, have you pretty much closed down. And yet with things opening up. I know you're putting on an event in the shop. Yes, yeah. Tell us about it. Yeah. So
Mark Buchanan:we were wanting to run a multi author event, essentially just celebrating their work more than anything else. Yeah, yes, we want to highlight the bookshop and we want to bring people in what we want to highlight the author's work. I think that's really quite important. So we're bringing a few different authors together from slightly different genres perhaps. But some are local and some are from elsewhere in the UK. And again, this was this was brought brought to me by a local author. You might know her Wendy. And it's a great relationship to have because not only have we introduced one Author to our customers, we're actually we're introducing three or four different authors. We've done it before with the old CLC bookshop, where we brought multiple different multiple authors together, I think it was four different authors. One, one was more of a historical fiction. One was very much a young children's one was more of a teenager type book. And of course, your books were thereas well they as well were involved there. And that was not just your killers code down, but it was your children's children's books as well. So it was a real good mix of different titles, added more of a marketplace kind of experience for people rather than just being focused on one small genre allowed quite a few customers to come together and maybe see something new as well. So we're having that event in November. And we're really looking forward to it actually, bringing bringing authors together is a bit of a hoot. They have a lot of fun, a lot of laughter. And it creates a real buzz around around the bookshop. So I really recommend actually, if you're able to train, pull a couple of authors together for an event adds a huge amount of benefit to you.
Wendy Jones:I think multi author events are becoming more and more popular and key. I've been asked to do another multi author event down in Motherwell at the Glo Bookshop as well, in November, the beginning of November, all Scottish authors. And I think that becoming more and more key because people will come in, and they'll think, Oh, well, you know, I can buy a book for myself, because I like historical fiction. But you know, Unlce Bertie likes this. And oh, yeah. So and So likes that. And before, you know, where you are the half a dozen books, and it's helped them because they're getting ideas. And so I think it's very customer focused, even though it's author focused, it's customer focused, as well.,
Mark Buchanan:absolutely. Absolutely. I think allowing a customer a good range to choose from is really, really important. I think as well. It helps them with their decision making. If you just have one title, it's very easy for someone to say, No, no, thanks. Whereas if you've got four or five, or even 10 different books, available different genres, maybe for different people, yes, it means that they're likely to buy from you, which is a booksellers really key. Also, it means then that you can be certain that your customer is actually going to be reading something. Yeah. Or they're going to be passing a book on to someone else, maybe a family member, or their children or grandchildren. But that's all that we wanting to do. Really, we want. We want to encourage people to read more. And the only way we do that is to give them a good range of books. Yeah. Not everyone is going to read historical fiction, for example. Yeah, some people may just want a good biography, because they know that actually what they're reading is, is based completely, in fact, maybe that's the kind of thinking that they have, you know, I think it's really quite key to case her father.
Wendy Jones:No, I would agree because, and sometimes people will find things that they wouldn't ordinarily read, because there's so many different things. You might think, Oh, well, I like historical fiction, I'll buy that. But actually I quite fancy trying that biography or memoir, or, you know, because it resonates with me, and you might find something that you wouldn't normally read because tyou chat to the author, you know, so yeah, So, if an author wanted to approach you with an idea for an event, what are the important points they should bear in mind?
Mark Buchanan:I think one of the most important things, especially from a book sales perspective, you want it to be an organised thought that comes to you. I know, I understand that an event you might not have everything planned out. That's that's, that's obvious, but you need to have an idea that's going to resonate, but is it's it's basic enough that we can we can latch on to it. Something like you're saying, you know, with a multi author event, bringing people together. We knew what that was about straightaway. So we it wasn't difficult for us to try and imagine how it was going to actually play out. So that's really important, as well as an author and make sure that you're not leaving all of the work to the bookseller. The booksellers might be the host. But they've got quite a lot of work as a bookseller managing the bookshop. Yes. Well, so Get ready to be involved in that event. And to some extent, be a bit more assertive with it and say, actually, that's something that I can do. And this is how I would like to do it. It ultimately means that as a bookseller, the event runs itself, well doesn't run itself, because author really runs it. But as a bookseller, it means it lightens our load, what brings people in, that's what's gonna be attractive to us. Again, highlight your books to the bookseller, before you start highlighting the event, they need to know what books it is that you're trying to sell. Yeah, that's really, really important, you need to give them a little bit of time to look at those books. If you can give them a couple of samples do that. That means that they could have a look at it, they can pass it on to a friend, or a colleague or something like that. And you can actually get a really good idea of what that book is. So yeah, I think those those are the key points. Really?
Wendy Jones:No, that's good. I agree. Very often as authors, we're very airy fairy. And we'll kind of wander in and we'll go, Oh, can I have an event? And you don't give them any other insight? What event you want abook signing do you want a meet the author? Do you want to read bit out of your book?Yeah, so being clear is important. Yeah. And, you know, and again, we just say, okay, have an event, and then you expect it to happen. And you don't communicate? Or, you know, so I think communication is key as well.
Mark Buchanan:Definitely. Don't be afraid as well, you know, sit down with a bookseller and actually plan it out. Yeah, you know, okay, you might not have every scenario in place, you know, I might have a fire drill in the middle of, you know, these things happen. But actually, if you sit down and plan what the event is going to be in the most ideal setting, then then chances are, that's how it's going to actually work. Don't be afraid as well, to highlight marketing to the bookseller booksellers are not always the best when it comes to marketing. It takes it takes a bit of an experienced person to actually do that. So if you know that the bookseller isn't well, well known for doing good marketing, maybe take that on yourself, or bring someone else into the equation so that they can actually give that a good pitch. Because people don't know about the event. They're not going to come to it. Yeah, it's it's catch 22. maybe, we need we need to know about the event, otherwise, they're not going to show up and buy your books. Yeah,
Wendy Jones:no, that's brilliant. Advice. Really, thank you for that. So all interviews have to come to an end. So my final question, first of all, tell us where the bookshop is. And also if anyone listening wanted to order a book sent to them, how would they go about that?
Mark Buchanan:Okay, so we are based at the fiery on taller death road in Dundee. You can quite easily get to us on main route buses. But we're a few minutes from the city centre in Dundee, and there's free car parking, off street parking and a car park. And we are just off the carpark as well, you don't need to go trailing through the whole whole church building trying to find that you should be able to see us quite quickly. You can reach us at sales@ba nabasbookshop.com. And you can mail us with any customer ord rs or inquiries or anything l ke that. And we should mana e to get get in touch with you f irly quickly. You can also reac us by telephone on all 1382 226859. And a member of o r staff will be able to help you there. If you don't get throug to us, please do leave a mes age. And we will pick that u and get back to you as soon a we possibly can.
Wendy Jones:Excellent. So lots of ways of getting hold of you. And thank you so much for taking time out of the bookshop and joining me here today. It's been a pleasure. And it was lovely to see Charlotte as well.
Mark Buchanan:I think that's probably the biggest highlight you've had.
Wendy Jones:No, the whole thing's been excellent. It's been really good. So thank you very much, Mark. Have a nice day.
Mark Buchanan:You too. All right. Thank you. Bye.
Wendy Jones:Bye bye. That brings us to the end of another show. It was really good to have you on the show with me today. I'm Wendy h Jones and you can find me at Wendy H jones.com. You can also find me on Patreon where you can support me for as little as $3 a month which is less than the price of a tea or coffee. You go to patreon.com forward slash when the H Jones I'm also went to h Jones on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Penny Test. Thank you for joining me today and I hope you found it both useful and interesting. Join me next week when I will have another cracking guest for you. Until then, have a good week and keep writing. Keep reading and keep learning