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The Root Of The Science Podcast
*Disclaimer: The views expressed by the guests in the podcast episodes do not reflect my own*
The Root Of The Science Podcast
EP 164: Dr. Keabetswe Ncube, Achieving Sustainability in Agriculture through Genetics
What if the future of African agriculture lies not in expensive technology, but in understanding the hidden genetic code of livestock that have survived drought, disease, and harsh conditions for generations?
Dr. Keabetswe Ncube takes us on a journey into agrigenomics - the science of using genetics to improve crops and livestock for healthier, stronger farming systems.
From her childhood in Pella Village, bottle-feeding orphaned goats to founding her own agricultural services company, Dr. Kea explains the relationship between cutting-edge science and traditional farming wisdom.
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We can purchase the genetics.
Speaker 2:I'm stuck at buying genetics. What do you?
Speaker 1:mean. So buying genetics means that you're buying the good qualities of the animal. They have adaptation genetics. You study the profile and then you look at what am I looking for? I'm looking for high milk yield, but as much as I want high milk yield, I don't want an animal that will die just because it was raining yesterday. So you know you want something that's resilient.
Speaker 2:So that's buying genetics. The Roots of the Science Podcast with your girl, anne Weathenie. Hello everyone, and welcome back to Rooted in Health 2. This is a special four-part podcast series in collaboration with Global Health Strategies. I am your host, ann Chisa, or otherwise known as Ann with an E.
Speaker 2:In today's episode, we turn our focus to agriculture. This is the foundation of food and livelihoods and resilience in our continent. As Africa faces rising food insecurity driven by climate change, conflict and rapid population growth, new tools are reshaping how we grow and sustain our food. One of these tools is agrigenomics. Now, this is a science of using genetics to improve crops and livestock for healthier, stronger and more climate-resilient farming systems. Now, to help us understand what the science means and why it matters, I'm joined by the brilliant Dr Kia Ngube. She's a South African agrigenomics specialist and the founder of Kia Ngube AgriServe. From improving disease resistance in goats to training rural farmers in cutting-edge genetic technologies, dr Ngube is redefining what agriculture innovation looks like when it's rooted in community and driven by women leaders Together. In this episode, we'll explore how agrigenomics is changing the story of farming, what opportunities exist for women in agriculture and how science can help secure a more sustainable and food secure Africa. Now let's get into it. Hello Kia, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Hi Anne, thank you so much for having me today and yeah, hello.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm so excited to have you here, especially because we had our first podcast we're speaking of a five years ago, which is crazy, so this is actually a welcome back um onto the podcast and what a beautiful um episode that we get to have you back on, because it's women's month in in south africa, so happy women's month and we are we're're gonna be talking all things about agriculture, which is also quite something you and I both relate to. So this is a really, really great conversation. But to get things first, kia, can you take us on a trip about your journey? What first sparked your interest in science and agriculture and, even more focused, in genetics?
Speaker 1:So yeah, for me, you know, my journey is quite a personal one and it starts when I was very little. The first five or six years of my life I was with my grandmother, before being with my parents, and my grandmother had a chicken coop in the backyard. So that's where it started. So I've been exposed to farming from a very early age. In the morning, you know, you'd have to go fetch an egg for breakfast. The hens were feisty but you have to fetch an egg for breakfast and then sometimes you have to like chase the same chicken for supper. So those are some of the fun angry moments.
Speaker 1:But I went deeper into it when I now moved back to Pella village to stay with my parents who had both, you know, a crop and like crop, vegetable and livestock farm.
Speaker 1:So back at home my mom was very passionate about vegetables, fruits and whatnot.
Speaker 1:But that was really not my thing and, um, you know, grateful that my father involved me and I used to go to the farms with him because the livestock was a little bit outside of the village, so we used to travel together. So go accompanying him when he does vaccinations and I would play with the goats because they are so tiny and cute. At a point my grandmother was like you're're going to be a vet. But one of the moments that I think it really like sunk in for me was when there was a time where we lost a door which is a mummy goat, and this mummy goat had given birth to twins, and that was my first time having to be like very hands-on, because these were now. My dad had to move them closer to us and every morning my sister and I had to like bottle feed and for me it was the best moment of my life, like for for those few moments until we win them. So yeah, that's where the agricultural spark landed for me.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. That's so beautiful that your love of goats really started at a young age. So take me now in. Let's fast forward to university. How does a girl from Pila Village know that there's something called genetics? How do we even cross that? Because I think when most people think of agriculture, they just think of growing the crop or raising the animal. They don't necessarily think about it in that genetic side of it. So how did you land?
Speaker 1:up there in that genetic side of it. So how did you land up there? So, as I was growing up, like I said, when I was in Pella Village now, I was more involved in, you know, the farming. It wasn't day-to-day mainly, but I used to be there every weekend with my dad, so I was more involved. And being that involved exposes you to the farming knowledge around. You get to see what's happening, you get to see. He was also best friends with this man, tate Herman, who had a large commercial farm in Khrot, mariko, and having to see the differences between a breeding farm and my dad's rural small scale farm, that's where I saw, now, all the differences, like why are your goats fat and then why are yours? Like they're not fat. So what are the challenges there? So that's where, now identifying the gaps, which led to my university studies, because I did see that okay, okay, there is a problem. At the time I didn't have the name for the problems, but right now I know that they had production challenges, a poor growth, yeah, poor growth, performance, reproductive performance, um, low yield, so you could literally just feed your family and nothing more. But farming is a business and you want more from that. When my dad slaughtered a cow, it could literally be enough for us and the extended family. But then you want more than that.
Speaker 1:So, going to university, I had this at the back of my mind that I have to help my late father. You know, I have to find a solution, I have to look for something and, by God's grace, I was exposed to biology also at a young age, because my mom was a biology teacher. So I used to like fiddle around with her books teacher. So I used to like fiddle around with her books. Then I knew that there's something with biological sciences, but no understanding at the time. So, going to university, fast forward. Then, honestly, the course I took this actually a funny but beautiful story. The course that I took at the moment was a mistake and it ended up being a beautiful mistake. I only knew biology. I mean, there's some kind of a solution with biology and I wanted to do biology at a university. So one day I went to TUT. I struggled so much with finding space, so I actually went to university. So I actually went to university.
Speaker 1:So the year after metric, I did something else, just to, you know, pass time. And then the following year later, that's when I was in Pretoria looking around schools. Then I passed the TUT and then I saw that there was a big board written biotechnology space available. I said bio, I'm getting there. So then I went and a few months into the course I was like this, this is nothing to do with what I thought. And there was a computer center at Ikea campus, tut. Then I was, I lived in there in that computer center doing my research, finding out what biotechnology is, and I remember I used to tell the person there that who was helping me navigate google and doing research, I'd go to the library trying to find out and I said this is what I want to do.
Speaker 1:And that's when I was helped to researching specifically on the applications of biotechnology in agriculture and that's where it sparked. That's when I learned that there are so many applications you know from gene editing. That time we used to call it cloning and GMOs that people are so afraid of now, phonying and GMOs that people are so afraid of now. And yeah, that's pretty much how I got to learn, like moving from that space where I knew nothing at all, now going to learn about biotechnology and actually how we can apply it in the farming spaces, for improved yields, for improved livestock.
Speaker 1:And now, moving to my postgraduate as well, because I also always wanted to know more, I felt that, ok, my diploma is not enough. I did molecular undergraduate and then there was this amazing lecturer also who taught us recombinant DNA technology. That took us now deeper into. If you want to improve your crops, you know, if you want to, you can take one gene there, put it in like a bacterial vector and then you put it. It was all the fun stuff like doing your cuttings. And now you're going to have this maize or soya that is drought resistant, that you are now able to overcome things like climate change. You don't have to worry because this plant is such a fighter. So that's how my journey went on and I fell in love with genetics also even deeper. That I went on to do for my masters and for the doctorate.
Speaker 2:What a wonderful story. You've already mentioned that sometimes, when people hear of genetics and genomics, we think of cloning and it's got a big about it, right. Um, and now we're trying to put genomics and agriculture in this, in the same sentence. That already sounds intimidating, you know. So sometimes it's almost like science for someone who is hearing these two things and is listening to this conversation, where science is removed from their daily life. But your work is about bringing that science closer to farmers, families and communities. So, in your own words, what is agriculture, agri-genomics which is agriculture and genomics, and why should people care about it?
Speaker 1:um, in the bigger, broader settings of things, so, in my own words, agri genomics has to do with. It's simply the application of genomics. Now, like you said, you know bringing the science to the people. Now you're outside of the lab and you want to apply this genomics to the daily lives of someone. So it is when we now study an organism's DNA and the genes that are within the DNA. So, in simpler terms, I'll say I like saying this when I do like primary school science engagements to say DNA and genetics is what makes you you and what makes me me, the differences we see between each other. So that same thing in agriculture that study to see what makes an apple green, what makes it red, and now we're bringing it to the people. It helps us to understand the genetic blueprint.
Speaker 1:Why is a drought master kettle more resistant or tolerant to drought than your jersey, which is a daily breed? What is it that it has inside of it? What makes these crops more resistant? There are some crops it doesn't matter how hot it is, it's not going to die, and this is one of the things that scares people. Why is this plant not dying? There's someone who did a whole TikTok for days on looking. Why are these fruits not rotting fast enough and they are so scared.
Speaker 1:So this is what we do to ensure that um, here, who's at home? She's busy, she's working. You don't want an apple that's gonna rot tomorrow because probably you traveled, you went to senegal for a podcast thing and you bought groceries a day before you want to come back and find your food. We're preventing, you know, food wastage. So those are the things. That's basically agro genomics studying growth, performance yield, because a farmer is looking at a fat animal. That animal shouldn't just be fat, but it should give you and I the right nutrients. What are we looking for in milk? You're looking for calcium, you're looking for protein. So is that milk right? So basically, basically the the agrigenomics is studying all those components and now applying them into farms amazing.
Speaker 2:No, I think that really gives us like a broader picture to really understand. So, kia, after your postgraduate, I want us to to go back to something really beautiful that you did. You went on and you started kiang nobe agri services, right? So why? Why did you start this? And it's that beautiful logo that is behind you right now? What gap did you see and what dream were you chasing when you started this?
Speaker 1:um, I was um, I was closing, or I realized a few gaps, and the first gap is very personal, because it's something that is a main challenge in the country Even now we have the highest unemployment rate. So that is the passion that I have to, you know, giving back to the farming community. I was being faced with unemployment. So I did part of my doctorate in the US and when I was there, I was faced with, you know, emails that were coming through to say, when your professional development program ends, we're not going to renew your product.
Speaker 1:But remember, at the time I'm in a foreign country. I'm looking back, I'm looking forward to coming back home and applying the skills that I learned, because the program that I went for was specifically for livestock improvement. And with the US government at the time you you even sign a commitment with USDA to say, after the program I'm gonna go back home and you know, translate all this to to to practical things at home. And then now I'm not even home and home is like we don't have anything for you yeah, no and I started looking for jobs and I wasn't being hired, and it's so.
Speaker 1:It's so weird because I had a master's at the time and I think there's something in between, because when I was applying for some positions, they would say I'm too qualified because I have a master's. For some posts, they would say you're underqualified because you have a master's. It was like, choose your struggle. Am I too qualified or am I underqualified? So that I I said with myself and I'm like what am I gonna do? Um, what am I going back home to? How am I now going to give back to my community? Because now, um, here they're saying we taught you. You spend all this time learning the application of research Like dude. We taught you so much that we even came to your village, so, um, so that was the unemployment gap that I had to. You know, look deeper also into my thesis. That's why I even remember the weirdest thing that the CEO at the time, dr Shadrach Mwepuli, used to say that, kia, we don't train you for ARC, we train you for the world. And things like this started coming back to me that, okay, what did he mean? Every employer wants to have their people like. You're my person, I've trained you.
Speaker 1:But I had to look back into my thesis and went back to the origin. Why did I want to? I went back to my why. If I'd put it that way? I went back to my why. If I put it that way, why do I want to do what I want to do? So, yes, I want to solve the unemployment gap, but after solving the unemployment gap, that's a tick. I would be self-employed at my company, but what does it do?
Speaker 1:Then I went back to my thesis and had to look at what have I been studying for all this time? I've been studying specifically Pella goats. I've been studying village goats, their genetic resources and, besides the genetics, what are the other gaps that I have realized? And I'm so grateful to ARC that through the tenure I also sharpened my, my training skills, because I used to be involved in training farmers, and not just training them, but training them in their native language. So, yeah.
Speaker 1:So then, being a Mutsuana girl, I was like, because I used to do translations in zulu, because we worked a lot in kz and I did translations in um pela villages as well, which is a stwana that's where I come from and then I was like what did I realize, um, farmers have the, the passion, but they don't have the skills and the knowledge. They have the passion, they have the I would say, basic skills. So I also looked at okay, let us solve, I realized the skills gap and that is one thing that helped me to also push in, and I won't say easily, because I met challenges, but that was the easiest challenges challenge to overcome, to like penetrate the market with the skillscape. And, which is the core of my business, we train farmers farming with purpose, um, farming with skills, the applications, like understanding what you are doing and not just, you know, doing random trial and error, like when you start a farm, when you go where you're going, you have to have a purpose, you have to have goals, you have to know how to do your records and all. So those are the skills that I developed.
Speaker 1:I mean the gaps that I identified, you know I developed. I mean the gaps that I identified. You know that skills gap. I also identified the fear of genetics. People are afraid of genetics, they are afraid of GMOs, but that is the one thing that I loved about having to do training in USA, because we learned about adaptation and, you know, breeding for improvement without changing the genetic pool. And how do I now translate that to a farmer? Because there were real life challenges in Pella Village where the government has also tried to help them. But when it's also the government, that not in a bad way, but it's like they also didn't have the knowledge of the genetic pool of exotic breeds versus breeds that are adapted to the environment. So they did a good job, we commend them and I love that they helped the farmers. But unfortunately those animals didn't survive because you know they are city goats that are used to being fed and they are not used to traveling distances. So when you put it in a village and you say you have to climb the mountain before finding food, it's like what do you mean? So they just die. So now having to teach the farmers that you know as much as crossbreeding sometimes works, but sometimes it's a hundred percent loss. So let us work on improvement.
Speaker 1:So most of the times when we talk livestock improvement, people think we mean you know modifying. But you can modify the genetic makeup through training the animal to change its genetic makeup based on the environment. So there's the other gap that I realized. So there's the other gap that I realized, warming the communities up to genetics, being familiar with what is genetics. How does it benefit me? I would, because for someone who lives, let's say, on a grant maybe of 350, and then you say they have to pay 157 per sample for their genetic test, it's a bit of too much. But then having to also translate that to them, them to say if we do this test for you, then it's going to translate to us understanding your animals and helping you for maximum yield. So instead of selling this animal for 50 rands per kilogram live weight, you're actually going to sell it for 60 rands per kilogram live weight. So so those are some of the the gaps that I identified.
Speaker 1:There's the dream that I I'm. I'm chasing the dream of um, sustainable agriculture, maximum yields, without you know, we are used to the traditional more input, more yield. But my dream is low input and high yield because in the rural setup people don't have money, and that's the reality that we have to face. And if I have to, even for our services, sometimes they don't, because you're going to say to a person I'm charging this many thousands per hour for consulting, they don't have that money. So, yeah, so having to, now you know, going into teaching, that's my dream to like.
Speaker 1:To seeing that farmer putting bread into their table. To seeing them and they take pride in their animals, because also in the villages, farming is a pride thing. There's this one farmer who said to me you know, dog, there's nothing that warms my heart than I just wake up with a cup of coffee and I just look at my animals and you want to look at your animals like that. And they are fat. You know they are fat and and nice. So that's the dream that I'm chasing to see them smile, um, to see them be with that happiness. And for me it's. Working with communities is so close to me, is giving back to the community that raised me, is giving back to people that I understand. Every village that I work with is the people that I understand. I relate with them because I grew up in these setups.
Speaker 2:Beautiful, what a beautiful vision and a beautiful dream that you have, and just listening to you speak here, we can see how you've worked from improving livestock and meat quality and goats to training rural farmers on these genetic tools, and it's such a beautiful mix of science and service. And I think that's the essence of who you are, because I know you personally as well. So we spoke. We spoke about that give and take of rural farmers who might kind of be hesitant to spend so much money on something like genetic testing because it's a lot of out-of-pocket money. But, um, can you share some real examples of how, um you know these agronomic services um that you use has changed the outcomes for farmers who you've worked with? Um when you actually put this into practice?
Speaker 1:yes, um I have like two, like okay, out of all the examples I have top two. So with um, with my top two, like I said that I spent my postgraduate studies, um studying village goats and with this identification, um, after my master's study, I realized the rich um genomic pool and profile that the Pella village goats have specifically and those were well, my top priority because you know they are my people, that's the land of my fathers, my forefathers, and I wanted to start there before going anywhere else and going back to the village and buying the genetic resources and, like most of the times, farmers, that I think maybe also that's a gap from our side or not educating the farmers about that. You can, we can purchase the genetics. And we sat in the lab and with my supervisors and I'm like we have to purchase the genetics for me to do my PhD. So they didn't know that. So we went back to the village after I was done with my proposal and then it was approved, I said this is what I want to do. Now we've seen the genetics that gives us, because with genetic profiling you see the history of the animal and it can also give you a forecasting. That, okay, this is the history, the present and you can forecast. But then I wanted to see the real time, and that is with another component of genetics, which we call like transcriptomics, that tells you what happens, real time. And I wanted to look at that to say, ok, yes, you have good genetics and we want to profile that good genetics and we want to profile that. But versus other animals, I wanna look at what happens to you now, based on the stresses, how the animals respond to the environment. So I was like if we were going to study the village goes looking at all the others these are. This is where we start, Also looking at the climatic conditions of Pela village, because it is very semi-arid and at that time the village was recovering the area, that whole area.
Speaker 1:They were recovering from a very hectic drought and I've lived that experience with them because when they were hit with that hectic drought, it was from 2013 and it went up to towards the end of 2015. And that's when I was doing my master's. At the time it was so sad, like we would, our team would just like park and just be like cry, because you are working and you literally look at the animals die because of the drought. And so I wanted to look at that like what actually happens. And when an animal dies, you know the farmer, you know the situation at home and you know that what, like what a loss. This person won't be able to take the animals I I mean the child to school or cover whatever. So now we went back to the village and said we want to study the genetics more. And we've been teaching them that if you have this good genetics, you can translate it to money. But you also don't leave the farmer like that. You have to take them through the process.
Speaker 1:So now coming back to the village sitting with the king, with the royal council and with the farmers and say this is what we found and because of that we want to put money into it, because you can actually sell the genetics.
Speaker 1:And yeah, and they didn't know, and because it's high adaptation, how are you not dead? Every goat is dying, but this one is surviving. And we wanted to purchase the genetic um pool and they were like oh, okay, so educating them for and then translating that into money, and we said we're going to buy it. You give us a price, we're going to buy these animals at three months and you give us the price and it was shocking. One um, they were feeling guilty for selling, and then two, um, the animals are too small to be sold and they didn't know their pricing. So but I wanted to put it to them first. Now, an average breeder in pretoria will sell you a three month old for nothing less than 1500 a three month old. And because they know the genetics and that's where you see the differences with, um, the skills and the knowledge of genetics because, yeah, because that breeder knows that you're buying genetics and my animal is going to improve your farm for generations to come.
Speaker 2:But the the farmer back home is right here, I'm, I'm, I'm stuck at buying genetics. What do you mean? Because some of us can be thinking are you injecting this cattle I mean this goat and extracting DNA? What does buying genetics mean?
Speaker 1:I'm like yes, so buying genetics goes into. Okay, let me talk about it in a I think it's a language that a lot of people will understand Like we have semen straws. So buying genetics means that you're buying the good qualities of the animal, so we don't inject the animal with anything, you're buying what the animal already has. So with my previous studies, I'll use the example of village goats. They have extremely high disease tolerance. They have drought tolerance. They have drought tolerance. They have adaptation genetics. This is something that you don't see a lot with commercial breeds. So when you want to maybe for people who do crossbreeding or gene editing, so you want to now okay, okay, you look at this or say, okay, I'm looking for an animal that has a high genetic, I mean a high disease tolerance, so you're not gonna inject it with anything. So in a crossbreeding setup, you study the profile and then you look at what am I looking for? I'm looking for high milk yield. But as much as I want high milk yield, I don't want an animal that will die just because it was raining yesterday. So you know, you want something that's resilient. So that's buying genetics, and that is why you go to an auction and you will see a bull being sold for up to two, three, five million. Because, yes, because that's purchasing the genetics. We have to also study the history of this bull. Who are the parents, the grandparents and then you. That is why I also always say record keeping for farmers is important, because before we purchase the, the genetics, we want to see how has it been performing from generation to generation. We're looking at your twinning rate, especially for your kalahari reds, for your South African Boa. They have a high twinning rate. So because you want to have doubles, so you know that if this Kalahari red has genetics to give me twins, that's reproduction genetics to give me twins if I give her a buck twice a year, so in one year I have four animals. So, yes, that's now buying genetics and that's why you find these animals very expensive. So now having to go back to the village and teaching them about these things, to know the genetic makeup of your animal, and we are the first people who purchased that because they have been. But like selling randomly oh it's, this person is getting low bolad, they say waiting there, and they sell animals for cheap, like for cheap, my first.
Speaker 1:The core of the business is training and at the time I was working for a private laboratory and so doing it's like educating someone and seeing them have the understanding and applying the knowledge is the most beautiful translation ever. Because I would do the training and usually when you pay for the training then you get the consultation services post training for free. So now they would come back and during the training I would also educate them about their genetic testing. So what I loved when I was still in that lab and some of the people living after I had left, they are still clients in that lab Now. To see the samples come in, you know, and I'll say to them send us your samples, it's just 157 per sample, you know, just send us your sample, let us profile your animals. You're going to spend 157, but then when you go to an auction, the return of investment is high. And to see them have that understanding, to see them, you know, know, to see that email come in. And then is the person that I had training with like two, three months ago and now also sitting with them and interpreting those genetic results for them, and some of them have even went to other results because they would go to the lab and still call me today to say, oh, I was testing for meat quality. And then can you help me to understand, you know, can you help me to understand? And then we would sit down and I would still take them into that advisory. This is what you do.
Speaker 1:And there's this one farmer in northwest after he, he passed his animals past auction, uh, quality checks for the first time and he was so happy. I remember that was the longest call because he sent the text when I was at work and I was like, no, I'm in the lab. Um, can I call you? When I knock off, like literally I wrapped up, drove home yes, of course, on earpieces drove home and then I was at home and we were in that call and then he's like I sold my bull and he sold it at the time for 30,000 rands and he was so happy, like he's. I never thought I can sell for this much, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So those are some of the returns for me that I have seen agrigenomics work, especially for the, for the breeders. It's nice because you're working with people who are usually at the same level of understanding with you because they've been breeding for years, especially if you you are working with the big giants in the game. Um, you know it's a conversation of you, know we understand each other, but I love it I've seen that even translate the more because those ones are not going. You don't discuss. Okay, what does this mean? You're not going to take it deeper, to the mutations? Oh, okay, they will tell you. For the past generations I've been seeing this pattern.
Speaker 1:But suddenly there's a shift in the genetic makeup. And then that's where I come in to say did you buy a new bull? Do you have a? You know new wives for your bull? You know what happened? Did you change something? Um, and that's why it takes it deeper. But whether it's with a breeder or a village farmer having to see that translate to like okay, this is what we, we got. This means that now you're going to sell your animal. Um, when you go to the feedlot, it's not going to be graded as A+, now it's going to be C. I'm sure this is what we see now on the shelves. When you go to your Woolies, your Pick and Pay yes, you see your A+, your C+. We test that in the lab.
Speaker 2:Beautiful, that's so wonderful just hearing that contrast between the commercial farmers and especially I really liked the stories with the subsistence farmers or the smaller farmers. But I'm just thinking, you know things like this, things like agrogenomics they don't flourish in isolation, right? They need systems and they need support. So, briefly, what kind of policy or maybe investments would make like a big difference in terms of scaling the science to regional farmers, not only in Pena Village, but somewhere in Venda, somewhere else in, I don know, bloemfontein, and even more so, especially women, because I'm sure women are also farming as well, as we've seen that they also brought in this type of conversation. So what do we need to do so that we can scale this and more people are educated and they can really get better returns on their livestock?
Speaker 1:In terms of policy, every policy, talk, talk. I like saying that if there's one country that is rich in policy, in south africa, like, we have policies for everything but no one is implementing those policies. So the, for me, the investment would be in the implementation of the policies that we have. How do we translate that policy to a woman in Pela village? How do we translate that to a farmer in Venda? To be able to speak the same language, to be able to speak the same language? And we had this conversation with the assistant dean of the Faculty of Science, and I'm really glad that TUT is looking into these things too. There is a huge gap, because she went to attend one of the biggest extension work seminars, which is a society, and then you see the gap between research and academia. So you will have your researcher that's here in the lab with her, you know fancy stuff, and then you have a farmer in a village and then, in between the farmer and the researcher, you have an extension worker. So that's where the investment should go. What is the gap and where do we miss each other in talking to each other? India has mastered this. India and China, they have mastered this so much and maybe it's time that we learn from people who have you know. Take that what is it that India and China are doing that we are not doing? They have amazing projects with their rural farmers. They involve them in their projects, they involve them in their projects, they involve them in their research. So, um, in south africa we have how thing that is taking the lead in terms of that gap between the extension workers and the farmers. And then I've had amazing. I've worked with the limboko extension workers as well, and and they are also, you know, catching up in the system because they have amazing projects with the farmers. But we need more. So for me, there's the implementation. We need to train more extension workers. Us as the scientists, we need to learn to translate the science to the people, because when, when you start the project, who are you doing it for? And I remember I did this long thread on my whatsapp the other, the other time, to say who are we doing research for? Um, is it for the small-scale farmer? And if we're doing research for the small-scale farmer in a village, how do we make it reach to them? I love what South Africa did with extension work. We just have to make it work because currently it's not working. It's not saving the farmer working, it's not saving the farmer and it's not saving the scientist, because they are in between the two of us and I think when that they, when the, when the department of agriculture implemented that, they saw the gap and that is what they wanted.
Speaker 1:We also have policies on, I would would say, for instance, policy alleviation, and that is why we have, I mean poverty alleviation. That is why we have state veterinary services. So we also have state veterinary services that have to help with affordability, but they are not. They are not with affordability, but they are not. They are not. And the the unfortunate part is then you would have um researchers doing farm visits because we would be working with the farmers and you get there and the animals are sick. I'm not a vet. I may understand symptoms. I may be able to diagnose, because it comes with studying. I may even know the kind of medication the farmer should buy, but I can't administer that because I'm not a vet, because if anything happens to the animal now we owe the farmer and then you know my boss at the work would be like the professor, would be like I didn't send you for that you know the animal is dead and now the university is owing the farmer and you know. And so those are the things that we have to work on.
Speaker 1:Can we have researchers who are equipped or licensed in a way? Because the state vet services also? You have one vet, like in the places that I've worked with you would have one vet in town who is servicing about 60 villages. Like that's almost impossible. You can't visit everyone, um, exactly, but then in the same space you're going to have researchers coming in because they have projects in the village. Where are the animal technicians? Where are they trained as extension workers? Because the extension workers are also trained to build a relationship with the farmers. And I love it because before you go to the village, excuse me you go through the extension worker who has a good relationship with the farmers, because sometimes we work in limpopo like we don't know each other, but the extension worker knows the community and the needs of the community, community and the needs of the community.
Speaker 1:So for me, I may be wrong, but I don't think we need a new system, but we need to make the existing systems work first, because we keep writing new things, we keep bringing new things. Meanwhile, something is there and it's collapsing Instead of fixing this one that doesn't work and Prof Banga did this example at the animal science conference in last month. And basically, the extension work is how India is mastering it. You have the researchers who are involving the community in the research and then they translate this with the extension workers. So, yeah, so now we need people to now take them through. You know so, as we are, for you know launching, and then these launches sometimes take money and we know that sometimes the application of research to see your return, we are in the lab, you know that you will struggle with your PCR for the next six months and you're not seeing anything. So it's the same with implementing Before you see high growth performance, it's going to take sometimes a generation or two or three and who's there with the farmer for that?
Speaker 1:Two, three, four generations. So, yeah, let us work, let us invest in the existing policies, let us invest in the workforce. There are people like I would say, people like myself, who love the community, who want to work with the community, but we don't have capacity. Let us work in giving capacity, in capacitating the extension workers, capacitating the researchers who want to go on field, making sure that the extension system and the state vet system it works. And for women, let me one second I'll touch on the female ones. And with the female thing also, we have to involve them. And these are some of the stories that are also very close to my heart, to say, working with rural farmers.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you find that it is the husband who is more involved. And with our projects we have seen that so many times that when the husband passes away, the family goes back to poverty or below the poverty line because their wife doesn't know how to take care of the animals, like they don't know what's happening in their farms. So can we have that inclusivity? With a few male farmers or few families that we have worked with, we have been able to help them to change their mindset, to help them to look into the future, to say, yeah, even if your wife is not there day to day, can she be involved, can she know? Because reality is that death is a constant that doesn't change. The husband will pass away. What happens to your children? You know what happens to your wife.
Speaker 1:You need to build generational wealth that, even when there's no one in the home, the children will be able to take up the farm, to understand, and in most of the setups is the women who are back home looking after the farms. And I'm grateful to the families where the husband would be back home only during the weekends because he works at the mines. So then the, the, the wives are the ones who will be at home, yeah, looking after the animals. So in educating the farmer, educate the whole family, especially the, the wives. So let us bring them together and this is one thing that I love about some of the kings that involve the women in the council we are having, and some places have different councils in their royal council. You'll have some for health, some for agriculture, and then they are getting there like that inclusivity, let the women have a seat at the table.
Speaker 1:Because when we roll out some of these things, we want to know okay, if I'm going to develop a tool, who makes the decisions at the home? But in a two-parent or in a system where there's the husband and the wife, we believe that both of them should make their decisions together. So helping them to change that mindset to say let's work together, because if we're going to implement the technology that maybe to prevent livestock, there are callers where you have to be looking at surveillance on your phone. You're at the mine. The wife is at least 10 kilometers from the farm. If something happens, you're 100 kilometers away. She's 10 kilometers away.
Speaker 1:Who's going to be the fastest to respond? So you know, you're in Rustenberg underground. You're going to see that your animal is stolen when it's been slaughtered already. But yeah, exactly, to see that your animal is stolen when it's been slaughtered already. But yeah, exactly. So yeah, let us include the women in the conversations from the beginning, at the planning stage, to say we're bringing this research, let everyone be have a seat at the table, be able to have a voice, not just a seat at the table, but also a voice to bring in their suggestions, to talk about how they would like things to happen, be game players in the decision making and advisory as well.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad that you brought up the women conversation and it's so important, and right now it's Women's Month and you've spoken to us about your wonderful journey and all the work that you do. So a little piece of advice to a young woman who sees you as a visible template, because you are very involved. People see you and we are inspired by the work that you do. So what type of advice would you give to someone who's listening to you and to your journey about this field or just science in general? Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I love this because I'm not just saying it, I've lived it and I'm living it daily. So I want her to know that her background and circumstances don't limit her potential. So many times we look at our surroundings, the tough situations you know where we're growing up from and we think that's the end. I spoke to someone and they're like, oh, you're from Pela, that's like a forgotten village. What was like, yeah, I live there, I haven't forgotten it. Forgotten village. What was like, yeah, I live there, I haven't forgotten it.
Speaker 1:So people would say stuff about you, know, see things about where you come from. But don't let that define you. Your circumstances don't define you is just part of your story. Science and farming is not for other people, it's for you as well. And now I'm speaking to any kind of science. Is it medical science? Is it, you know, social science? It's for everyone. You are also included.
Speaker 1:If you are curious, passionate, willing to work hard, you can lead, you can innovate, you can have a voice, you can change your influence policies, you can transform your community. And I believe that change starts with us. Change starts with the community. That is immediate for us. Uh, bend the box. The box is what people think about you. Don't let your society define you.
Speaker 1:You know, psychology says that at the age of five, that is who we truly are. So don't let that person die. And you know how five-year-olds are, almost annoying, like they want to do this and that and that and that. That is who we truly are, and don't let society map who you are. For you, identity is everything. Like you know me personally, that identity is everything. Know who you are and if I will close it, I will close it at identity. If you know who you are, no one can take that away from you. So know who you are. Your ideas, your skills, your voice matters so you can shape the future of agriculture. You can shape the future of science and anything at all that you want. So burn the box and be yourself love it.
Speaker 2:Burn that box, like. Don't just step out of it. Burn it like, light it on fire. Thank you so much, kia. Thank you for sharing your journey, thank you for teaching us um, and you are such a an inspiration to me personally and I know just so many others. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story with us and the wonderful work that you do thank you so much, and it was lovely to be back five years down the line.
Speaker 1:I had so much fun.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much and to everybody else who's tuned in. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the root of the science podcast with your girl and with with an E. Until next time, goodbye.
