spk_0:   0:39
Thank you for listening to the Unscripted Journeys podcast with the Joe Marcus. If you have any questions or comments, police feel free to email a set on script. The dreams at gmail dot com Please support us on patriotic at Unscripted Dreams Podcast where we have exclusive content. If you're listening on YouTube, you confined our podcast on iTunes. Spotify I heart radio. Thank you, Ace is Marcus gel local to the unscripted dreams Podcast.

spk_1:   1:08
Welcome, Welcome.

spk_0:   1:10
This is a episode number five four will be going. It's in process. Your singer, that's the vessel happens when you're recording the product cast from across the country. Things like that never happens. And tell us,

spk_1:   1:32
should I hit him with the typical jargon? Right quick, You

spk_0:   1:35
may go ahead. Give itto

spk_1:   1:36
all right. As we know, life is full of surprises both good and bad. The day to day journey is full of unforeseen obstacles, and sometimes it's hard to see our way through. Beyond the Norman mundane are where unscripted dreams live. Join us for thought, provoking discussions and interviews to help us navigate through the fog and create our own path. We are the unscripted dream podcast operating outside the margins to motivate and inspire our audience.

spk_0:   2:05
Great. So this episode oh, of we're talking about Is he already say imposter syndrome? Yes. And by definition, most basic definition I can't provide for that is it is ah, psychological pattern in which one doubts one's accomplishments and has a persistent internalized, a fear of being exposed as a fraud. Yeah,

spk_1:   2:34
yeah, to a certain extent, man, that's a little harsh and extreme, but, you know Ah, let me get you some examples of that literally. You may be in disbelief and one's on actions or accomplishments. Um, it doesn't have to be as harsh is that or maybe it's because you have been on the grind so long and finally made it thio where you were trying to go. You're still in that shock value of shock factor that Oh my God. I can't believe I made it to this point in my life. Or maybe it's cause, you know, is from being bullied and ostracised by so many naysayers and you've got so many haters around your way. Ah, where you you more or less value what they have to say because you've been here for so long. And of course, the last one is You know, you lack confidence in yourself. Uhm, is common thing that happen with imposter syndrome?

spk_0:   3:31
You know, Joe, you ever have you ever suffered? Or do you suffer from a process in syndrome?

spk_1:   3:42
Oh, man. What? That's like the blueprint for, ah, college students. Man, you know, you're studying to be something or toe master your craft and a certain profession, and yet you don't even have the experience because you're not even in the field yet. But you're expected to be an expert coming out the gate when you get a degree, and that's literally false. You know, you have to put some work or some effort behind it from actually being in the real world versus you, just reading a book and learning about it. You know, it just doesn't work like that. And that's why it's really common for people that are in school. Tau experience these type of situations because you're speaking on something that you read about, but you don't know necessarily the full end of the full extent of what's going on in the real world because you're not getting paid for it at that point you're building up to that point so you can have a career doing these type of things.

spk_0:   4:45
Okay, but what about what about once you've kind of the other would look, it is that once you've achieved the status where you've had some type of some level of success in your field, but you still don't quite feel like you're deserving of any of the accolades.

spk_1:   5:06
I mean, I deal with it sometimes two men, and it's sometimes it's not even just you. It's just the whole idea of how you might be treated by everybody else. So, you know, it's a lot of factors to a man like, not only are you dealing with war against yourself, you're also dealing with other people that you have two more or less prove your point to say that you've gotten to the point where you have been comfortable with yourself. But you still gotta prove your knowledge, your expertise in your skill set to other people. You know, um, in a form of kind of like being like a perfectionist, you know, people hold you to a super high standard and, to be honest with you on the other in they may not even really realize what they're doing. What type of pressure they're putting on you is literally just how you perceive things and how they give, you know, their delivery. It's all about their delivery.

spk_0:   6:04
Eso won What faster? This is nothing. Just by doubting yourself and doubting your abilities like he said, there's a There's, ah, lack of confidence, their plays into this. Yeah, so one thing that I found that was unique is that that you doubt yourself internally. But there's it stems from how much confidence you kind of have in yourself. It's not. It's more. I guess I'm saying this more intrinsic, then it is extras it as faras What? What side plays? The greater factor?

spk_1:   6:47
100%. I would say it's in the 90 percentile as it being an internal thing. The external factors just kind of like enhance that internal thought process because certain situations may have happened where you've had an idea of where, like oh, maybe I'm not as good as I thought I was because of this may happen. Or maybe I've done a presentation. Or maybe I've worked out some type of business contract and it didn't go so well because I couldn't relate to this person on certain things. You know? Ah, those type of things play a huge factor into like your psyche and how you perceived thanks.

spk_0:   7:26
So So statistics are pretty pretty high on this. Everything I saw kind of show that it was maybe in the 70% Thomas Firas how often or how frequent people deal with this issue. So it seems that there's a just a majority of folks that are dealing with this, and I think a our peace comes from cottages understanding how other people may perceive themselves in their work so recordable, you're in the work. You're in a work situation, and you and your co workers have the same task. But you don't necessarily understand that. Maybe what? Something that difficult to you that won't be your co workers might make you think like it's easy. But it's actually very difficult for them they're doing. They're kind of just putting putting up a facade in making it seem like something that's difficult is effortless. Just to make you feel less than our, you know, make you feel like you're not, is skill as they are or something right or also, you know, you just don't really. When you're working alongside people, sometimes you just don't know how many things someone else has to do to achieve something that work. I know. For example, in my own experience, I would sometimes I would do something that work, and it will be a new task that I didn't do before. And I was as I was doing it in my mind. I said, This is kind of difficult for me to do And then I'm looking at other people around to see if they're working on the same type of project. And I'm wonder, and I'm thinking is this is hard for them as it is for me, like I'm trying to measure myself against my my peers and sometimes I would find it. What was easy for me was hard for somebody else, and what was hard for me is easy was easier for someone else to do. So it was, It's, I think Ecologist plays in tow what you're doing, and you're sure it's in your weaknesses, like some things are just going to come easy. Two years, some things were gonna be difficult, but that goes that you can take that into account for everybody.

spk_1:   9:51
Yeah, Agreement. Um, you know, with imposter syndrome, you know, there's there's a whole bunch of different levels Based on the article that I've found, there's actually five different types of imposter syndrome, so that goes to show you how widespread this actual term is. Um, the 1st 1 would be the perfectionist, and I don't think I need to go into a full extent of what a perfectionist is. But there is a sense of if something goes wrong after you didn't put an X amount of work and effort, Um, you know, everything has to go precisely how you perceive it to be, So everything has to go your way. And in the real world terms, you know, it never goes that way. Everything goes the opposite of how you envision it. You kind of have to accept it for what it is and go with the flow. And that's how a lot of people get caught up in that part of the 2nd 1 would be more so quote unquote, the super woman's last Superman. So these air people that really run themselves into the ground these These are the people where you're only required to wear 40 hours. Ah, a week, right. These people usually go above and beyond. These are the people that arrived before you get to where and they even stay after you leave work. So these people are the ones that leave No, No time for self toe, actually. Get away from work, toe. Actually think freely. Toe where they would be refreshed to get back on the job. They're thinking, work, work, work, work, work. Like things were going to change your wrists like the It's a huge deciding factor. And people don't realize that that can cripple your mind set just because things aren't necessarily Ah, that's just, you know, you need a break from things from time to time so you can have a fresh brain there.

spk_0:   11:48
Yeah, I call that the Marcus Syndrome.

spk_1:   11:52
Yeah, that's you want todo I'm

spk_0:   11:56
good for. I'm good for that. I mean, I think what you're saying I know workaholic is another kind of green, right?

spk_1:   12:04
Yes. Uh, well, that would be considered the workaholic,

spk_0:   12:08
so I can remember a time back when I was when I was working a cz A You know director working with the dust with intellectual disabilities, But I would work so much like I was going to work on weekends. So I was working seven days a week and we were only open for five. So I'm going in to work on the weekends. I'm getting there early of taking phone calls. Early is like four in the morning, too, sometimes like 9 10 o'clock at night, depending on what's going on. So I'm working around the clock, but there's a part of me that feels obligated to go in on the weekends. And so also be there from, you know, six o'clock in the morning, the seven o'clock at night and filling the need. Thio. Make sure that I'm always there, always available. You know what the idea was. You know, it lead me to burn out at what I was doing, but it's It's almost like I feel like me physically being there, even though I was working way beyond what anybody else was working Or, you know, even maybe here or someone else was quote made close to working when I was in, I don't think there was, but but I just always always felt like I had to prove to people that I would want to put all these hours and put all this time in the show that I was deserving of the position that I care will run in that program. What it did was because I would be that so much, you know, I didn't burn out in that position. And who were the end of my tenure there? I just I started to get the market that, you know, I'm doing all this work. I know. I'm working 60 hours 50 60 hours on a regular basis. I'm doing all this work that people don't even know that I'm doing. And you didn't really matter. You know, that's the point. To where? For the great world. Like I didn't have anything to prove in that, you know, I'm thinking around just so you filthy mean or just black Israel Better with obtaining a position that I earned, You know, you know what? Something is really something wrong with me, and I probably needed to get out of that environment, which I there's no need

spk_1:   14:33
for sure, man. Working like that is very dangerous. I understand the level importance of getting ahead, and I'm actually being, you know, you want to move up. You know, you got that fire within as we keep saying where you want to move up and you want to realize like, Hey, I'm not here to play games. I'm someone that really wants to Ah, do big things. I want a leadership role. I wantto be a manager. I want to be a supervisor. And you know, there's other ways you can go around by doing that. And the number one thing is staying consisted. You don't necessarily have to run your, ah, but into the ground just to get to where you want to be. There is other waves or other factors that can get you there. You know, it's it's a process. Um, the third type of imposter syndrome would be the natural genius. Ah, this is I mean, this is self explanatory as well. Man, these air, the type of impostors that set their, you know, their internal bar impossibly high and just like perfection. ISS, you know, natural genius. Uh, those types, they usually don't just judge themselves based on ridiculous expectations. They also judge themselves based on getting things right. on the first try. So they think that Hey, if I don't get it right this first time, all hell breaks loose. You know, I they just pretty much they don't know howto handle it. Man, that goes back until, like, emotional intelligence, like we've covered, you know, it's all about learning how to handle that. We understand how important the job or whatever situation it means to you. But if you don't get it right the first time, Okay, I understand. You know, it's heartbreaking. It's heart wrenching. But you can't just fold up and break down an attack, your own self ego, so to speak. Just because you didn't get ah A on your report card or you didn't get a gold star, you didn't get a raise. This might or this year, you know, there's something to learn from that. And there's, I guarantee you there's five or six Maur. Seven more positive things. You could have got out of that experience versus that one negative thing. And what you probably view is being negative from a natural genius standpoint, uh, is probably not even that serious in most cases.

spk_0:   17:11
Yeah, what's the What's the next one I think I got something for today.

spk_1:   17:17
Okay, The next one is the soloist. So a soloist. You know, they suffer who feel as though is asking for help reveals their phoniness or what young young people call soloists. So they're afraid to ask for help. Um, I find myself being guilty of this, and I know a lot of people that feel guilty of this. And this is when you let your pride get the way. Man, You know, you talk about how you don't want anyone's help when you actually need all the help in the world. Like I don't know if you want to cover on that, you

spk_0:   17:54
know, duty is a is that of that is well, and I think it is. This is just your pride, your pride getting in the way. And I think of interesting numbers of Ah, quote. What kind of a story from Hemery forward, I think back. You know, he was doing his thing getting the four motor company ran in. One of the perceptions of him was that he wasn't is an intelligent is other business owners. But when you would I think one of the close is when they asked him like, Why doesn't he have the knowledge? Or does he know things that his his his answer was it? Why does he need to know X Y is evil? He could pick up the phone and call somebody and have the answer with their five minutes Exactly, you know, so cried quicker at that. We, you know, you were a box like him before was right one minute, but But that's that's the mentality that he had. And we understand that. You know, I think we just have to understand that you can't do it all by yourself, and that's okay. I think even people someone who tells you there myself made or they did it all by themselves. There's people that have helped you just not in the capacity, but you're probably thinking, you know, so just important things just accorded tow 100 man. When maybe you're out of your debt a little bit or you're gonna you're running the risk of overextending. You're just looks like you saved your number that just dialed back in the E. Q. Being aware, being a wearing yourself in years, you're passing your limitations and your assurance.

spk_1:   19:43
All right, Well, let's move on to the last one. Um, this is something that I experience on the daily. Uh, it's the expert, and pretty much the expert is one of those people that you just can't tell them Nothing. Um, so

spk_0:   20:06
those people are fun to work

spk_1:   20:07
with. So basically, the expert measures their level competence based on what and how much they know or can do so, believing they will never know enough. They fear being exposed as inexperience or unknowledgeable. So, like a good question you could ask is, Do you shy away from applying to job postings unless you meet every single educational requirement? Um, are you constantly seeking out training's or certifications? Because you think you need that to improve your skill in order to succeed, like that's what I mean, as far as being the expert like you have, Thio basically cross off everything on the checklist so you can meet the demand of whatever's being whatever offers on the table. And that's always almost always not the case in most situations. But nothing's wrong with being Pharaoh at all under any circumstances. But having that mentality can really cripple you. Um, you know, people need to realize that you need to leave some rule, some room for you being able to grow or transition into something. So if you know everything, then what's the point of, you know? Even, you know, I'm saying, like, it gets to a point where Why would I hire or why would I? You know, partner with somebody that's an expert in those all this information inside out, like, What's the point of me doing that when my whole role is to make sure that you grow into that position not necessarily come in? They're already being expert because what's gonna happen is you're going to start challenging that boss. You're gonna start challenging your leaders and everything like that because you've already know this information. So it's like, Would I rather have somebody that's fully expert and then pretty much have them blocked or, ah, you know there's a glass ceiling there, or would I rather have somebody that knows half the knowledge? And they have room to grow into that where they would be motivated, and there's actual, like, common goal there between you and the work force or whatever you're doing. I rather invest my time and it's someone that can grow into that. You know that position versus someone that is actually like, fully equipped and they're pretty much on their way out the door. They need something new. What you think, Marcus?

spk_0:   22:40
Yeah, I agree with that. I think it's a lot like I'm looking. If you look at her job description, I feel like a good deal of employers are looking for, like this. Perfect. With this perfect fit, there's not really even a gauge for potential and what someone can bring to the table. It's more so. We need you to have 1 to 2 years of, you know, kind of all of this experience, but they don't take into account what you're capable of. What type of projects have you worked on? And what type of areas have you challenged yourself in Excel in that you know. So I feel I feel like a flake. Sometimes the kind of the way the job market is set up and maybe deters it kind of deters people from thinking they can apply for those projects and things like that. Things of that nature because it does it. I don't think the jobs I don't think the way the job market is set up right now, he doesn't reward potential. Oh, it rewards someone who's more it that maybe that expert level or perceives himself is being an expert. Okay, but I don't think, but I don't think that, uh, I think that's kind of why it's important that a SW far as an imposter syndrome that people don't let that feeling prevent them from sharing her ideas are applying, applying for you no jobs of projects where they might exhale like sometimes you might look at. So I think sometimes you might look at it a job posting or some sort of physician. And it might be, you might feel like, Hey, this is out of my scope But then you should refer back to a time in your life where you were presented with the project that was out of your scope. You succeeded at that, you know, and I think it's part of like one of the kind of the the tips toe some someone who deals with their parcels since since since syndrome is too just like, you know, learn from your mistakes. But also, you know, remember the things that you've accomplished, you know, don't lose sight of the things you've done. You did well, you know, I think that Ah, I think that plays a part. County deputies a part in it.

spk_1:   25:24
Yeah. Man is very important to be secure. A CZ much as possible. I know it's not easy task because I fight with every day, but, you know, like market segment, you gotta write those accomplished down. You gotta, uh you know, make sure that you're thinking about those whenever you are challenged or you feel challenged or intimidated. It's important that you kind of fall back on those accomplishments so you can remind yourself who the hell you are

spk_0:   25:57
because, well, because anybody at any stage of their career having process singer, you know, even I mean, even the most accomplished folks, I feel that with

spk_1:   26:10
all the time selectively people that have no idea or what direction they're going in there, just going with the flow, you know, just because you're successful, that don't stop you from experiencing things where you're going with the flow. You know, that's just how things are for you. At that point in time. New and most great things happen. Unplanned, unscripted dreams.

spk_0:   26:34
This is this S O J R. Question for you sure are. So I think I think based on my my research in understanding that there's a there's a fine line between, you know, confidence in feeling by here, an impostor like that. There's a There's a certain level of that part of part of having a processors syndrome, is it? There's a level of humility that you have, but it's magnified, like you've magnified your humility to a point where it's unhealthy, I guess, a detriment to you. So what do you What do you feel like? The boundless sea is the right balance between kind of humility in, you know, your confidence.

spk_1:   27:29
There really is no right balance markets, um, to be honest, which you just have to take it as it comes. Um, I know that sounds rough, but that's really what it comes down to. You have to take it how it comes. You know, you may be more challenged about certain situations, and you might just blow past another one. And just like that, that's nothing like it all depends on where you are in your life. With that circumstances, situation I would say the best way to handle those type of issues would be more or less trying to way out the pros and cons trying to assess this situation for what it is. Um, like I told you before and I said, on this platform, if you don't have the answers, man, the best waited tackle, the answer is simply Just put it on pause and come back to it. It's not going anywhere, so you know, you can pick up where you left off later, man. So that's the key point that I'm trying to make here is You don't have to give an answer to everything. You don't have to make a sound decision right away on anything, you know. Give yourself time,

spk_0:   28:42
then. So what thing you were about to start rapid wrapping this up. But what they just as faras Jerry, go get into some tips like, are you going after our Well, one of the ones I just wanted to mention was as far as just, you know, having confidence. And, you know, sometimes you have to take control, take a true of your own fate, take control of your own situation, and if you're working in a job, and I know performance evaluations air a huge thing. I mean, they they determine whether or not you're going to get a raise. No, for those people that work it cos where they haven't frozen your raises, uh, you know. But you know, you can take control of that, that whole evaluation process, and you can You can set the tone by just asking your supervisor Ah, for review. It doesn't have to be that six month or that Annie will re review. You can ask for a review every month. You can hold them accountable for letting you know the you know, the the terms in which success will be viewed at your position at your level So you can you can ask for that and I've done that. I went and I just asked for a review just because I wanted to know how I was doing. And I didn't want to wait for six months or a year for me to get feedback. And then you use that as let it leverage tonight. Give me a raise like I want to know. I want to know their review criteria. A year before I get it, you know? So when it comes time to my review, you can't do anything but pay what you owe, you know? So So I think just taking control of what? You can't control the understanding that you know you have. You have more power than what you think over your situation. Like you don't have to wait for certain things that come to you. You you can demand an evaluation of your superiors. They will respect that because they have to. They'll have to be a little bit more on the ball. And I think that goes to kind of building confidence because you're holding your holding yourself to another standard because I guarantee there are many people going to their supervisors asking for a review just to get it just so they can over there. So I think that's a good tool to be, Oh, confidence in the kind of combat you know any of that imposters singer?

spk_1:   31:24
Well, I'm really glad you said that markets, because their ties in tow, number one ways toe overcoming impossible syndrome, and the 1st 1 is keeping a journal. So if you do something like I like to practice now is called a project plan. Make sure you have, like a list of deliverables. If you don't know what deliverables are, that's a list of the objectives that you've achieved at your job. So whether that's miscellaneous stuff that's outside of your job and on that type of stuff, document that and like an excel sheet word, whatever, wherever you can. No book one. No document that stuff. My documented my stuff every week. Ah, the good, bad and the ugly. So I documented all those objectives and I saved them. So when we do have an evaluation meeting, I bring these up so there won't be no room for non discussion. I won't miss anything. And I would also bring things to their attention as faras. What am I doing on the back end? There's always a lot of role of. There's always a level work that you've done that your boss has no clue about, because you got to think about it. Your boss's managing more people outside of you, so you have to do things like that. So everybody's on the same page and you're not getting cheated out of what you owe, so to speak. get your money. All right. Number to set some goals, man. Make sure you set some goals for yourself. That's that's the fun part about it. If you know, sending goes for yourself, then you're just They're so I really hope and pray that you have some type of goals as far as what you want to get out of this. I can tell you from my experience what I want is experience. I want exposure. That's what I've always wanted. Those are my goals. My goals is exposure to the techno technological pleat piece. I want to make a transition in tow. Some technical work versus me just doing, um, the typical work I do day to day third thing, build a professional support network. Um, four foot be get a 360 feedback. Like Marcus said, You know, you can always ask for an evaluation at any point in time. They're required to do that because they're responsible for you. So what would a boss look like denying feedback to there? Uh, people that are under them and, you know, that's just poor leadership. You know, if your boss can't give you an evaluation of the work in what you mean to the organization you represent, you don't need to be there flat out. You need to find a better job, all right, The next one, it would be, you know, get a coach if you need one. Get coach, find a mentor. There's always people in the workplace that have kids that and moved away from home, and they're so to speak of empty nest there. And they've always need kids that they want to speak to, um, or they want to build a relationship with because they see something in you like they saw on their kids or whatever. There's some type relationship there that you can build on with anybody in the workforce, and actually, they can give you tidbits of how to take your career to the next level. All right, next one will be recognized. Learning and failure are okay. That's part of the process. You know, you don't just have a straight path to get to your destination. There's some curves. There's some heels. There's some cliffs. There's all that in your path to where you want to be. So be comfortable with learning and with failure, make sure you fell fatso. If you fall off a cliff at some point, make sure that you can, you know, have a safety net there. Whether that's money in the bank or you have some other opportunity lined up where you can bounce back, it may not be the quickest thing, but it's something. And that's the thing. You just can't stop fighting. Um, next one will be Keep a positive feedback, you know, always document that stuff. It is very important that you have positive feedback, and that's what keeps you going. Um, next one will be do things outside of work that make you feel good. So whether that's you hitting up the bars where that's you driving and crazy during rush hour for the next You, uh Whether that's do you doing whatever, man going to the gym, you know, doing your CrossFit, whatever. Whatever you do, man, whatever makes your heart happy. Make sure that you do that next one would be saying out loud to someone you trust. I feel like a fraud. So don't be afraid to voice these insecurities that you have about yourself to somebody. This is their P for yourself, man. You know what good is it of you getting over something. If you can't admit your faults or where you think you're faulting at, you know, and pasta syndrome is literally nothing but a false sense of self. You could be doing great out here, but you still feel like shit on the inside. So make sure your voice these things to people so people can actually connect the dots for you because clearly you can't in your own brain because you're thinking about too many things. So make sure that you do have an outlet for that

spk_0:   36:53
it. Sometimes you just need that outside perspective toe push. You push you along or show you just show you something in the light that you don't see it.

spk_1:   37:06
A man. I think that's enough.

spk_0:   37:11
That's a lot. Maybe you dropped a heavier there, you know, if it's a it's a lot. Alba hopefuls taking notes. But, uh, that's all I had on me, Joe. Thanks for dropping all those tips at the end. I kind of Sprinkle mine is een like not not in the way that you you do. I just try toe. You know, I've tried to tell your story. That's kind of my my typist don't do that. May Maybe he so. But no, I follow, I'm sure was jumping to a lot on the ah, high side. I think there's there's a couple of things we talked about, that I wanted to do some more research. All that. When I find my notes, I'll be able to present those pride in that episode that we do. But I'm gonna Joe, you haven't you have anything else?

spk_1:   38:06
Yeah. I want some people to take away from this as Faras Imposter syndrome. All the successful people that you think have their shit together really don't. And it just appears that way. So keep that in mind. Be mindful that everybody doesn't have it together like you think they do. You just admire something about them. So you focus in on that and you kind of black out all the other inconsistencies that are just there right in front of your face. So keep in mind that you think everybody got it together. $1,000,000 all. They drive down the street with a Bentley or a Mustang on twenties. Whatever. Like you think they got it all together. And, boy, they might be where soft. And you are. So just keep that in mind fel that you can't apply your lifestyle or how you living your life to other people because it just never works out that way. Preach. Well, Hey, man, I appreciate you guys from listening. This is the impostor syndrome episode. So, like I said, thank you. It means a lot. Thanks. Piece.