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On Tap Podcast
On Tap is the podcast that celebrates the heart and soul of blue-collar working class culture. We'll be hosting some amazing folks from the blue-collar world and beyond. Listen in as we chat with industry legends, unsung heroes, and experts in their fields. Their stories, experiences, and insights will inspire and entertain you. Comedy is our secret sauce. Kody & Sam have a knack for turning everyday work stories into side-splitting anecdotes. Prepare for laughter, hilarious work-related mishaps, and a good dose of humor to brighten your day. Whether you're clocking in for your shift or winding down after a hard day's work, "On Tap" is your go-to podcast for a dose of blue-collar pride, a taste of the finest brews, a good laugh, and a fresh take on the world's current events. Subscribe now and be part of the working-class revolution!
On Tap Podcast
Jae Zole on Performing With Logic & His Song on Madden 24
When a Minnesota rapper decided to quickly record an open verse challenge on TikTok before bed, he never imagined it would lead to performing with Logic in front of 20,000 people just days later. But that's exactly what happened to @jaezole8850 , whose raw talent and authentic style caught the attention of one of hip-hop's most respected artists.
In this candid conversation, Jae takes us through the surreal experience of receiving that life-changing call from Logic himself, being flown to Miami, and stepping onto a massive stage having only performed for crowds of 50 people before. "I pretty much blacked out," Jae admits about the moment he hit the stage, though he notes performing for thousands paradoxically felt easier than intimate shows where "you see everyone's reaction."
The conversation ventures beyond that pivotal moment to explore how Jae's music landed on the Madden 24 soundtrack alongside industry titans like Jack Harlow and Polo G. Despite these impressive achievements, what truly moves Jae isn't fame or fortune, but the impact his music has on listeners. "Some of your music saved my life," a fan once told him—a moment Jae describes as "worth more than any dollar amount."
Perhaps most refreshing is Jae's grounded approach to the music industry. While pursuing his passion, he's simultaneously studying physical therapy, creating multiple paths forward rather than placing all his hopes on musical success. His advice to aspiring artists? "You just gotta not give a f*** what anyone thinks of you... You're alive one time, why would you not do what you love out of fear of what other people are gonna think?"
Whether you're a music creator, fan, or someone pursuing your own creative dreams, Jae Zole's story reminds us that sometimes the biggest opportunities come when you least expect them—but only if you've put in the work to be ready when they arrive.
0:00 Meeting Jae Zole and His Accolades
7:27 The Logic Story: TikTok to Miami Stage
13:40 Performing for 20,000 People With Logic
31:37 Getting on Madden 24's Soundtrack
43:25 Creating Music and Balancing Life
53:28 Growing Up as a Small-Town Rapper
1:01:32 Advice for Aspiring Artists
Check out our sticker packs at OnTapWithTheBoiz.com
Ladies and gentlemen, today we are joined by rapper artist TikTok phenom, jay Zoll, and this guy's got a lot of accolades. He has been on stage with Logic. He has a song on the soundtrack of Madden 24. He has he actually just popped up in my Spotify day list this morning. Dude, thank you so much for coming today. Yeah, thank you for having me. We appreciate you coming on. So I guess I mean I want to get right down to it and just hear the story of how you met Logic, how that whole thing played out. I'm sure you're sick of telling it a thousand times, but we I mean we just we have to hear it first person, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was gonna. Yeah, yeah, like the open verses and stuff, you always see them. And then it was like 10, 30 at night, something like that, and my homie, marcus, hit me up and he's like bro, you got to do this one. I was like trying to go to bed, I'll do it quick, whatever. So I posted it. And then I wake up the next day and I saw I was getting a decent amount of views. I was like, okay, this is dope. And then I was. I think I was going to the bathroom just scrolling through TikTok and all of a sudden his duet came up of him dueting me and I just swiped past it, got a couple more swipes. I was like hold the fuck up.
Speaker 2:I was like wait, that was me, that was me yeah, I was like, oh my god, you know, jump off the, jump out of the bathroom and I like run over to my little brother. I'm like bro, look at this. And obviously he was unimpressed, like little brothers always are but, yeah, right and then yeah, so I was like, even just that alone was enough for me oh, dude, that's, that's fucking yeah even that alone.
Speaker 2:I was like he heard it, he fucked with it, like that's, that's, that's crazy. And then I get an email and it was like this is logic's manager, call me at this number. And I read it. At first there was no subject on it, there was no like signature. You're thinking like this is a scam. Am I going to get scammed right now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Did the email look normal Like? Was it an official email? Or was it like so-and-so at gmailcom or something?
Speaker 2:He pulled his phone out and like in 30 seconds, typed it out, sent it, like nothing on it. And then I was like I have to call, you know just to. And I called and he's like yo, is this Jay? I was like yeah, he's like logic's going to call you, hangs up. I was like what? So then I'm sitting there like like I still can't decide if I'm getting scammed, or not. And then, uh I, my phone rings. I was like no fucking way, so I answered him like yo and logic's like yo jay.
Speaker 2:What's up bro? What's up man like you know. And then he's like yeah, I want to, I want to have you come perform the song with me in miami. And he's like would you be down for that? I'm like what? Yeah, like dude that's insane.
Speaker 1:You got to be like thinking in your head like play it cool, play it cool, play it cool oh yeah, but you know my heart rate 185, like I'd start stuttering like hi, I'm like sweating and shit, but hello sir, mr logic, sir yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, yeah, he's like I got everything taken care of, you're gonna, we're gonna, pick you up at your house. Um, I got your flight we're gonna pick you up in miami whoa and I was like what the fuck bro?
Speaker 1:so how did that whole process work, like they just set it up? They said like this is your ticket information. Whatever you fly there, who picks you up?
Speaker 2:like a driver, yeah, like a driver.
Speaker 3:Picked me up this, so you were just fucking hanging out. Nothing going on. You're fucking. You make because these verses, that was huge for a little bit you know, everyone was doing it, every big artist like open verse 100, and so you just weren't even thinking like I'll just do it for fun, see if something happens next thing you know, you're getting picked up at your house yeah, oh my god, and like a brand new tesla that's so cool.
Speaker 1:That's cool. So, from the time that you land to the time you're on stage, what happens between that?
Speaker 2:So I got to the venue, it was like the Bitcoin.
Speaker 1:Oh, the Bitcoin Festival or whatever yeah.
Speaker 2:Logic wasn't there yet, so I just kind of was hanging out backstage. I got to watch Steve Aoki's set. That was pretty cool.
Speaker 1:That's sweet.
Speaker 2:Just hanging out there. And then Logic got there um said what's up? And then we were hanging out on his, on his like bus thing um dude, what is that like?
Speaker 1:what's the aura?
Speaker 2:that is Logic on his tour bus, I mean you know how you always I think a lot of people like idolize celebrities put them on this like pedestal. Yeah, when I met him, it's like I could like he's a normal dude I could like go to the bar down the street and like talk to this dude and yeah, just like a normal dude, super cool.
Speaker 2:Um, it's just down to earth yeah like he didn't treat me, like I was lesser and like he's like off rip. Just you know, like hugs me he's like bro, what's up like so nice to meet you, I'm like nice to meet me bro but, yeah, it was. It was super cool. And then the. I think the coolest thing about him is that a lot of the people on his team now are people he grew up with, like his day one friends yeah like his creative director is someone he grew up with, like all those positions he gave to people that he grew up with that he's been friends with forever.
Speaker 2:So just super down to earth, like I couldn't have asked for like a, a cooler experience well, that's the thing you hear about.
Speaker 3:A lot of celebrities that are big celebrities that are still doing well and maintain a normal lifestyle is they bring in people that were friends with them before the fame for the money and that's how you know, they, they like me. They liked me before exactly. They might like me a little more now because of it.
Speaker 1:But you know there's a basis there, at least damn.
Speaker 3:So you? You go on the bus and you're just hanging out. Do you know? At this point you're for sure performing like it's, it's all going down like what's that anticipation like leading up to it?
Speaker 1:were you nervous? Oh dude, straight fight or flight mode like five hours straight just adrenaline um and how many people when you went up on stage. How many people were there? Do you know? I?
Speaker 2:think it was 15 to 20 000 wow in that range. It was crazy.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, have you performed live before this?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Just in general have you like.
Speaker 3:Could you give an estimate of like your biggest show at that point?
Speaker 2:Before that 50. This is a fucking chain jump.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like you jump from like a base level to this is the top spot. Yeah, there jump. It's like you jump from like a base level to.
Speaker 2:This is the top spot. Yeah, like there's no minor leagues, because he was a headliner, for it was he not, he was the headline.
Speaker 1:He was the headliner he's the prime spot of the entire festival. Yeah, so now is this song that you perform with him in the middle of his set, or where was it?
Speaker 2:it's somewhere in the middle yeah, so he had it in the middle of a set I watched. It was like right in the middle. So I watched the first half and he doesn't use a backing track yeah he's just up there.
Speaker 2:He raps every word and like a lot of people don't understand how fucking crazy that is. You're running around stage like to have that breath control. Yeah, he's insane and he like stopped. He's like you know, know, I did a contest and this white boy from Minnesota is the one that won it and he like calls me out and I pretty much blacked out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There was so much adrenaline going in.
Speaker 1:Oh, I bet.
Speaker 2:But the crazy thing is, it's honestly easier to perform in front of a crowd of that size than it is to perform in front of a crowd of like 50. Because those crowds of like like 50 are so it's so personal you're seeing every person, see everyone you see how they react when it's like 10 to 20 000, if like you're not even looking at one person.
Speaker 2:If a thousand of them are jumping, then the rest are probably just going to fall right in line. You know what I mean. Good point. So, like, the small crowds honestly are more intimidating in that sense.
Speaker 1:Wow that's crazy. Like what after that, after that, after that's, done you okay? So, first off, at the end of that song, I saw a clip on your instagram where he's like giving you a chain, like puts a chain on you and like he, he says some really really nice things about you, says like you're really promising, you're a really talented guy. You, you know you have this bright future ahead of you, whatever, what is that like after that, like stepping off of that stage. What was going through your mind?
Speaker 2:Just, I mean, that's got to be what heroin feels like. I mean, I felt like I was walking on clouds, started clicking my heels and shit.
Speaker 1:Oh, I bet, I bet, damn. So. Did you get to finish out the rest of this like? Did you watch the rest of his set? Like, and then, and then what? Do you stay the night in miami that night?
Speaker 2:so um, we go back into his bus. And he was working out like the money stuff with the head, uh, promoter, whatever, and uh, I was supposed to go back to the hotel and then the driver came to get me and logic was like nah, jay, you trying to come to Nobu?
Speaker 3:Damn. I was like.
Speaker 2:Nobu.
Speaker 3:Like hell yeah.
Speaker 2:So we get on like this different bus and drive we go to Nobu. I have never seen so many rich people before.
Speaker 1:Oh, I bet, oh my God, especially in Miami, like Nobu in Miami, that shit was crazy.
Speaker 2:And yeah, he gets his table and then I've never even been.
Speaker 1:What is Nobu? It's just like a high-end steakhouse, right, pretty much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they got like everything Steaks, seafood, stuff, like that and he paid for everyone. Like I wasn't 21 yet and he was like all right, we're getting drinks for everybody. He got me, he made sure I got a drink, but yes, it was. I can't Like there were people like just Balenciaga full body suits on.
Speaker 1:It's like thousands of dollars. That shit's worth more than like my life right now. Right Everything I own yeah, my entire net worth is on this guy's body you must have been laying in the hotel that night like what the fuck like this is moving so fast yeah it was.
Speaker 2:We went back to the hotel and then I think my flight left at like 4 am or something like that, but um, logic invited me up to a suite with him and c dot castro, um, and we were just chopping it up in there for a while.
Speaker 2:Um, and yeah, just like it's super cool to see that there's still celebrities that are as down to earth as they are yeah you know what I mean, because they could easily be like all right, you did your thing, go to the hotel, get on that plane yeah, I'm gonna speak to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it could be, a whole ploy just to look like a nice guy you know exactly bringing. Like we're bringing a fan out, all right see you, man.
Speaker 1:All right, get the fuck out of my face and I think a guy like Logic I think that's why he's gotten so successful is because of being just such a down-to-earth guy, and that's how he comes across in everything I've ever seen with him. In it, nothing would ever lead me to believe that he's gotten a big head out of everything.
Speaker 3:So many people have tried to tear him down throughout his career. The fans never have left. At a certain point if you have a good enough fan base, you're around forever.
Speaker 1:You'd have to really fuck up, I was a massive Logic fan. He was the only guy I would listen to around that gang-related area.
Speaker 2:Under pressure that project. I listened to religious.
Speaker 1:That's like one of the only whole albums I can listen to front to back, not skip anything like so good the entire thing. All the videos were great Like dude. It was just an unbelievable front to back.
Speaker 2:That project yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not so. You know, being being around him, did you ever feel like you couldn't? Or, I guess, did you just like ask him advice at all, like did you just ask him like, hey, how can I make this a career? How can I be better, how can I do this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he gave me a lot of advice. You know, the big thing is is just stay true to yourself and just never stop. I mean, you never know when. That, like leading up to that, when that logic shit happened, was like probably the lowest point I'd ever been in my life and it was kind of like what?
Speaker 1:am.
Speaker 2:I even doing right now.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I got to figure this shit out. And then that happens and it's like okay, like leading up to to it never would have happened had I just been like fuck this, I'm done.
Speaker 2:you know what I mean and he just said always like, stick to it, um, and keep your circle small is a big thing too. Keep it with like, like you said, like before, the people that rocked with you before that level are the people that need to be there when you are at that level. Um, I think that was a huge thing, because I've definitely you know, after the logic shit and I'm not famous by any means and I still had people that were like yo bro, like acting like we were best friends yeah I've talked to you one time in my life yeah and like it's weird, it's crazy oh yeah, no 100.
Speaker 1:I noticed a lot of that when you know like we go in massive ebbs and flows. It's like we get a few videos that'll get, you know, a million views and then all of a sudden everyone else is like oh, I listen to that podcast all the time and it's like oh no, you do not, no you definitely do not, yeah, so I think that's with any industry.
Speaker 1:Obviously, everyone wants to be a part of something that's successful, but until it gets to there, they don't want to associate themselves with it, in fear of them looking also inferior to what's going on. So then now fast forward to the Madden 24 soundtrack. How did that whole thing come about? How did you get a song on the Madden 24 soundtrack? That's crazy.
Speaker 2:So my manager, nato, um, shout out to nato by the way, he's, uh, he's been working with me since 2021, no, 2020, um, and he has never, you know, tried to get any money out of me. That like wasn't part of the music stuff. Like he's been so ride or die for me, like I got so much love for that dude. He introduced me to a guy named Kyle, who's kind of like my other manager. Now, same thing with Kyle. Like I don't have a lot to offer as an independent artist. You know what I mean. I don't have a label budget. It's like I can't put you on salary shit like that.
Speaker 2:And these guys, you know they mess with me enough to be like dude, we just want to make music and work. So I got introduced to those two and a producer that Kyle knew reached out and was like yo, you got anything you want to pitch to Madden. And he was like then he hit me up. He's like yo, put a playlist together, we're going to send it to Madden. I was like all right, I bet, gave him like five songs and they picked the worst one. Glory was the worst song on that playlist and that's the one they went with.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was just you know connections getting to pitch the songs.
Speaker 3:It's unbelievable to see the names that your name's. Unbelievable to see the names that your name's next to you, that's I was gonna pull up the biggest stars at that very moment in the game and just to have the opportunity to beat like because, like I, I'm a madden I love madden, I've played hours especially 24 I.
Speaker 1:I have heard your song hundreds of times like I it's just crazy to me when I put it all together, man, because like so just to give people an idea, for people that don't know Madden and don't know the soundtracks, and Madden, how like monumental that is. There's names on here Armani white, ASAP, Ferg, ESTG, Jack Harlow, Jay Zoll, Jay rock, um Wiz Khalifa, young Khalifa, Young Devin, Young Chris, St John, London on the Track, Joey Badass, Mike Dimes, Marshmello, Polo G. I mean like the names on this cover are unbelievable. It's like the star power just in that lineup is insane.
Speaker 3:And I would love to know how many people submitted playlists. Like to get picked out, man.
Speaker 2:That's fucking amazing. It was.
Speaker 1:it was such a blessing and you know I got to give a lot of the credit to nato and kyle for making that happen um, now I mean, I'm sure everyone's thinking this and I gotta ask what kind of a money deal, or is it more exposure that you get from being involved in something like that? Like is yeah, do you get, is that like, do you get significant publishing money for being on madden 24?
Speaker 2:so you get um, you get an upfront payment, um, and then that's like split with everyone that worked on the song and then I was able to keep the streaming money for it.
Speaker 1:That's so cool, which was huge I would imagine that gets looked up a bunch from just being on the playlist the, the, the back end money is where the money really is.
Speaker 2:Um, a lot of people fall for, like, the trap of like, oh, you're gonna offer me x amount of dollars and that's it. Okay, cool, I'll take that. And they miss out on like the like. I just saw this post about this dude that, uh, michael jackson sampled and he was like I can give you 20k or I can give you this percent of the split. The dude took the 20k. That now would have been worse, like if he took the percentage oh yeah, millions of dollars that's tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's tough because also, you know, I'm sure people look at it like, oh, this guy doesn't really have much going on, I'm just gonna take the upfront money yeah and that seems more guaranteed yeah, but yeah, so I get the serum and then it's split, you know, with everyone that worked on it. Um, how many people worked on that particular song that got chosen? I?
Speaker 2:think it was four or five. Um notto engineered it, uh, notto, and a dude named yukon engineered it. Um kyle produced it, and then Chaz was another co-producer on it. So cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hell yeah, dude, that is insane. Is it a trip? Do you ever? Do you play Madden?
Speaker 2:hell yeah, dude, I played every Madden. Yeah, okay, like the Wii, okay, so was it a trip?
Speaker 1:while you're playing Madden 24, like you're hearing your own song on the game.
Speaker 2:It still trips me out. That is crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't even wrap my head around. That is so cool. Damn, yeah, did you. Did you have a lot of people hit you up about?
Speaker 2:hell, yeah, it was. Yeah, a lot of people were hitting me up about that. Um, just like a lot of how the? Hell did that even. Yeah, yeah, yeah that's nuts.
Speaker 1:Did you? Do you think you've gotten any other opportunities just based on that?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I think it's definitely good to have. On the resume oh yeah, I think people take it a little bit more seriously when you can pull up something like that. I look at it all as stepping stones the logic shit, the Madden shit. I had some crazy shit happen like two weeks ago. I think it all just kind of happens in steps. You know what I mean. So 100.
Speaker 1:Well, what do you? Got in the pipeline right now like what do you, what do you have for future things going on so I can't.
Speaker 2:I signed an nda so I can't like give. So it's something cool. Yeah, I can't give like specifics on anything, but it was like I was out. I got flown out um to do some work for like a pretty a-list celebrity. I was like at his house.
Speaker 1:I saw you were. You had a post on your instagram. You were in a studio in calabasas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I was out there. I don't even know if I could say who it was.
Speaker 1:I don't want to get in trouble or anything. No worries, yeah, it's fair.
Speaker 2:But no, that was um, that was one of those things that happened where it's like I can't even tell anybody this because no one's gonna believe me, right, so like, but yeah, that happened. Um, a lot of the shit I'm doing now is um focusing a lot on the songwriting side. I love writing um huge reason like I. I never got into music for the money or the fame like fame is like bottom of the list things that I really want in life. Um, I just love to make music. So the songwriting aspect of it, um, I love kind of like it's it's a lot like acting almost. You put yourself, you know, in that artist shoes and just make music like they would. Um, so that's like a huge part of what I'm doing right now yeah, 100% dude, I couldn't.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, that's. It's cool, because I think you give me these vibes like obviously you understand what you're doing and you love doing it. But I think like it's rare that you see someone that kind of loves the whole package of the grind. That's like the process of doing it, the thing itself, the execution of it, and I think you kind of have to have that, to even have an opportunity to take it to a level that some would consider successful.
Speaker 1:Obviously, you've already done a really good job of that. You have this awesome portfolio of proof of concept that you can do it and that you are doing it. And it's cool to see, honestly, and I think that was a big reason why we wanted to have you on. Like, obviously we already like your music, like we already stream it ourselves, but, um, to be able to sit down and kind of get your story, uh, I think was something that really interested us. Like give us a peek behind the curtain of like who is jay zol?
Speaker 2:like what makes you you so I mean it all started um, like I said earlier, um from a town called sock center, super small, like 4 000 people um, and you know there's no music scene there. People like hard rock and shit.
Speaker 1:Like if you go to the bar as much as 65-year-olds if they heard some rap shit at the bar, some Creed. A lot of Creed going on. If they heard a rap song, what the fuck is this shit? Yeah?
Speaker 2:So when I was 14, I said Mom, dad, I don't want any Christmas presents, get me a laptop, get me a mic. So they got me a laptop and a mic. Um, and then you know, I just started working and my music for like three, four years was trash it was bad.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's anything, yeah, but you have to blindly just be in love with it. Yeah, I'm at that time.
Speaker 2:Did you think like this is awesome, this is oh yeah, I'd finish the song and be like dude, this is the one this is the baby I'm gonna be famous now, were you?
Speaker 3:were you getting clowned on at school or did you? Were people pretty supportive? In being a small town in minnesota?
Speaker 2:it was definitely a mix. Um, some people definitely clowned on me, which is fine, you know, the music was not great, but a lot of people definitely supported me. Um, you know, my friends, um, a lot of my homies, they like I could not ask for a better circle. Like I'm driving, you know, three hours to go do a show for 25 people and my homies are like yo, can I come? I want to like, and they'll like we'll pack four of them in the car and we'll get there. We'll pack four of them in the car and we'll get there, and they'll like that kind of love is like a huge part of what keeps me able to like, keep going with it. Um, but there, you know, every school has kind of got a SoundCloud rapper.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, 100%. There was like. There's like three or four of them at our high school, yeah.
Speaker 2:So there was like there was a SoundCloud rapper in the town next to me that we had beef.
Speaker 3:And we dropped diss tracks.
Speaker 1:Yes, dude, I love hearing this. That's so common, that's so common.
Speaker 2:And then one moved to my school and we had beef and now we're cool. Now he's a super cool dude, but for some reason we hated each other for a little bit.
Speaker 1:It's a territorial thing. Yeah, it's a primal instinct.
Speaker 2:Like thing, yeah, like it's a primal instinct. Like this is my lane, not yours. Yeah, cloud rap, but yeah, so we beefed to drop diss tracks and the whole, that whole thing but was the school like getting behind it were?
Speaker 3:they was like everyone waiting for the reply after oh yeah, there was this.
Speaker 2:Oh man, it was like I think it was my senior year. Um, someone like mentioned a rap battle. We were all in the gym for some reason and, uh, someone heard rap battle all of a sudden. Everyone just circles around us I was like god damn dude and I look over and, like my, my science teacher is like in the crowd, like what was going on over here like listening to it oh it was so funny.
Speaker 3:That's hilarious yeah have you always gone by jayzle, or did you have an original name, that that you changed off?
Speaker 2:it's always been jayzle. Why jayzle? It's my first name, my last name, like cut and that took me like a month.
Speaker 3:It's fucking green, though it works, man it works.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you know, I'd spend hours just staring at a wall like what the hell do I call myself?
Speaker 1:yeah, you put so much emphasis on it too. I'm sure like, yeah, um, you know the brand what am I gonna look?
Speaker 1:like what am I gonna? What is my name gonna be? Do I need a logo like your branding? Everyone puts so much importance on the branding before it even starts of anything. You know. I mean us, even with, uh, with the podcast dude. I can't tell you how many different iterations of the branding and the logo that we've already been through. But pre even starting like I'm a graphic designer by trade and so like, even leading up to it, I made at least 20 different versions of what I thought that this logo should be. And then finally, I was just like screw it, I'm just gonna have a friend make it, because I can't make this, yeah, because you're like bias.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3:I deal with that same shit, totally, yeah and what sucks for us with our branding is like. At the time it on tap.
Speaker 3:It was all about getting drunk like that's just what we did, yeah I can't even remember the last time we recorded and I was like actually pretty snapped up and it's like we we built this brand under it, and so we don't want to change the name. But it's not really about drinking beer anymore yeah so like I, I comfort myself by like on tap. You know it's bar talk. Yeah, it's not not always dude. We used to fucking just rip shots the whole the whole time.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that made for, like even when we started getting some some viewership, like it was still just blackout talking on the mic and then listening to it on tuesday and being like, oh my god the whole premise was like you know, obviously it's no secret like short form content is what's the most popular thing, and then ideally, you want to bring people to your longer form things, whether that be full-length videos, interviews, whatever the case. So for us it was like how drunk can we get and who's gonna say the craziest thing? And we're gonna clip that out and it's gonna get a ton of views. People are going to come to the podcast. But it didn't work out that way because it was like the clips were good and the clips would get a million views and then they'd come to the regular episode and be like this is garbage.
Speaker 3:These guys are just drunk rambling for now and for some reason we couldn't get brand deals.
Speaker 1:Ah, I wonder why Not brand safe, you know, not thinking about it, probably getting you know shadow banned because there's like alcohol, vapes, things in the shot that just like automatically don't push the video. You know things that you just have to learn by just doing. But how, how has that, do you think, impacted what you got going on Like? From a content perspective, obviously that's what's gotten you the most attention, especially with the logic situation. I saw on your Tik TOK that you had a video that really blew up. That was a remix of the BBL Drizzy song I wanted that Metro booming that was so good, that was so funny.
Speaker 2:I wanted that beat so bad. But yeah, I want to like write music for Drake someday, so like hope he doesn't have any hard feelings there. I just wanted the Metro beat. Yeah, so speaking of rap beef.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Do you think it's kind of crazy now? Because when I was younger I always had this understanding that rappers wrote their own music. It was kind of like if you were known as having a ghostwriter you weren't a real artist.
Speaker 3:And then it came out that Drake uses ghost artists and people were like, who cares? The music's great. And now you have people like Benny Blanco that are as popular. He's an A-list celebrity just because he wrote so many of these great songs. And for someone like you that wants to get into to writing for other people, and you know for yourself like it opened up a lot of doors. It was like the own. It was like wrestling. You know it's crazy now, growing up, because I watched wrestling when I was young and it was like these. These guys were always in character, even when they were out in the streets, and now they're retiring, doing, doing podcasts, talking about it and with songwriting. It's crazy for me to see the tides flip like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty rare nowadays for someone to write their own songs.
Speaker 3:Or at least the entire thing. Everyone's got writers with them at least. It's pretty rare.
Speaker 1:It's wild to me because in a genre like country music, that's the norm. Wild to me because in like a genre like country music, like that's the norm, like every song that you see that's a massive country song has multiple writers on the song, you know. So it's funny that like a genre like, specifically, hip-hop, gets such a bad like representation for that because, like every other, genre that's just so common.
Speaker 2:every pop song has like four or five writers on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of times you'll hear like these demos of the writer singing it and like pitching it to the artist. Yeah, it's like damn, this is almost better than the original song.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dude, it's crazy. I've been going through the Benny Blanco rabbit hole lately.
Speaker 2:His accolades are crazy. It was my childhood man.
Speaker 3:Like every banger after banger, because I remember when Kesha hit the scene, when Katy Perry blew up and then to find out he basically wrote every one of the main singles that she had and like unbelievable, but like just to see, he just did a podcast where he was like playing these demos, yeah.
Speaker 1:Is it Danny Wright?
Speaker 3:I can't remember 100%. I wish I could give him credit.
Speaker 1:Because it was a great interview.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about and like the way that they would play it, like they moves, like Jagger, yeah they didn't have the words right there, but it was like you knew. They knew how many syllables could fit in so you could kind of put it together and it it really peeks into how songwriting is done, because from from the surface, if you don't know anything about it, it seems like, oh, that's easy, they write a song, but there is so much to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's writing is, honestly, in my eyes, like I would just love to be a successful writer, because I was when I was in LA. One time we were at a studio and I was talking to the engineer, waiting for everyone else to show up, and he was like, yeah, my homie's a writer. He wrote, uh, seven rings for Ariana Grande or like he wrote part of it. So you got like a 15% split, something like that.
Speaker 3:That is insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those royalties gotta be nice Guess what his first royalty check was a month after it released. I wouldn't even be able to guess 10 grand 20 grand 500 000 dude immediately.
Speaker 3:I'd be like, yeah, I'm retired, yeah, this is all I'm doing dude, you don't even have to tour anything you know, you can still go to walmart and not get harassed by people man that there's got to be so many writers around hollywood that are just filthy rich and no one has a fucking clue who they are. That's almost better than being famous, because you can still go out in public, I 100% agree, but you're rich.
Speaker 1:Like rich without the fame, like that level of rich.
Speaker 2:without the fame, you get to do what you love you get to do music.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet there's some people that probably don't like it, though. They're like I'm the dude, but people don't recognize that there's got to be some part of you that's like. I want to have that notoriety.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I think that's where you get a guy like Benny Blanco. I mean, I don't mean to keep dick riding, he like found a way to be like an influencer at the same time too yeah, good point. I think it's kind of like it goes with like writers for tv also. You know you, they just they. They don't get any of the credit but get the money. It's just, it's an odd lifestyle, it's more of an actual job right then being a performer, you know it's. It's a different lifestyle, I can only assume.
Speaker 2:And obviously the royalty checks are fucking nice yeah, that engineer told me that and I was like I'm being an artist, I'm trying to write like yeah, seriously yeah.
Speaker 1:So what do you? What's your creative process like? When you're starting a song, what do you do like? Do you have any like unconventional ways of getting yourself in a creative mindset?
Speaker 2:I think I mean some of my biggest songs I've written like at the most random, like I don't know if you know the song lovesick it's one of my bigger songs. I wrote that while I was pushing carts at walmart, like it's just like. A lot of the times the creativity hits me when I'm not even in the studio and then when I'm in the studio, my process it depends on like the beat a lot of the time. Sometimes I'll freestyle, Sometimes I'll write, Sometimes I'll mumble, Like you said. You like mumble how many syllables and then write later. I'm kind of all over the place with it, just whatever I'm feeling in the moment no, that's awesome, really pinpoint it.
Speaker 3:You know, it just kind of happens exactly.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's where real creative flows to you. Don't box yourself in and say I have to do this exactly no and honestly, I think that's where a lot of artists get trapped in this cycle of constantly abusing substances I know because that's like yeah, I have to be fucked up in order to be creative and things like that.
Speaker 1:And um, I think not putting yourself in a box and saying I have to do this, I think gives you the benefit of allowing yourself to 100 experiment in other ways to get yourself creative, yeah. But I think you're right, though you have to you almost have to go through the trenches and physically, yeah, be putting yourself in these places that you don't really want to be in order to experience those highs and give yourself the opportunity like most people wouldn't want to be pushing carts at walmart at all I was one of those people.
Speaker 2:That shit was ass.
Speaker 1:I did not like that I bet um, yeah, dude, I, I, I just, I can't even, I can't even, I can't even imagine. So like are you, you're? I mean, are you doing music full time right now, like what, what?
Speaker 2:are you doing so right now? I do music and then I'm in school, and then I work too. I'm going to school for physical therapy. That's like another huge passion of mine.
Speaker 2:I love fitness stuff like that, love being able to help people, and then I do music like mostly as my job, and then if I need extra money I'll pick up another thing like Moana and stuff like that. Yeah, but I mean I just figured it's like with the degree I'll get, I can do travel work, so if I need to be in LA I can be working at the same time. If the money from the music's not great at the time, and then if the money from music is great at the time, I can just take a break from the other thing. I'm just trying to set myself up in the best position for success, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, 100%. And also I heard this quote a while ago that really resonated with me that says if art imitates life, you still have to have a life. So, having something outside of your hobby, your passion, I think is really important, because a lot of people get stuck in the cycle of burnout and hating what they do, because they try to focus on just that. They get mad when maybe things don't go their way or traction doesn't build as fast as they thought it would and um.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people experience that burnout after big moments, especially big milestones. You know like for example that moment that you had on stage with logic in miami, yep, I can imagine a lot of people short term after that maybe wouldn't stick with it for very long because that high, how do you come close to? Something like that again in the near future. It's almost impossible, I know I get that.
Speaker 2:I do get that a lot, um, and that's like that's a great quote, because I think you know, being in school pursuing a degree and stuff, a lot of people be like, oh, that's fucking lame, but it's like it's so refreshing to be able to say music's. You know not where I want it to be right now. It's like I'll keep working at it, obviously, but I have this other thing I'm also working on. So it's not like I'm not sitting there like fuck dude, what do I do? Sitting around like just kind of throwing myself a pity party. It's like, hey, I'm still working on other shit and it's just refreshing and it helps a lot writing wise, like with writer's block, where it's like, well, I just wrote a bunch of songs. Now I gotta focus on this instead of being like I gotta make more, more, more, more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then I can come back to writing. It's like I feel refreshed, clean slate and start writing some new stuff.
Speaker 3:Um well and like physical if physical therapy you know being your backup plan to music like that's, what a hell of a fucking backup it's also a passion and it pays goddamn good, like it's I.
Speaker 3:I totally see what you're doing, man. It makes sense. You can't put. You know it's. It's tough because at certain points you have to put all your eggs in the basket to maybe push to that next level, but you also can get caught in a bad spot and to find the balance of still. It really just comes down to how much a person's willing to grind Exactly. We struggle with it all the time with the podcast, where we all have full-time gigs. Cody's got fucking two kids that are under three years old.
Speaker 3:Oh shit, yeah you know like we always want to do more yeah and we just always we don't always grind the way we should and we see it in the numbers. And if you aren't consistently posting, if you're not consistently just trying to create and better your content like it's just a matter of time before, it ends and we've we've. We took an eight month break and just trying to come back. It's, it's not even. It's not the same.
Speaker 3:You know we've had to build, just to get back to an audience that we had before, when we were posting all the time.
Speaker 1:And yeah, staying consistent is key 100 and just staying fresh and engaged. How do you think your relationship with social media has changed since pursuing music as a career?
Speaker 2:First, I hate social media. I mean, I hate it for the reasons of like people who like to talk shit. And who was the one that said people love to talk shit on the Internet? People got too comfortable talking shit on the Internet and not getting punched in the face or something. Sounds like a Rogan quote, I can't remember who it was. Yeah, just like. It's such a toxic environment a lot of the time.
Speaker 1:Well, you can hide behind the screen. Yeah, exactly, you know. Maybe isn't even you.
Speaker 3:You know, when you're in an argument with a person, you know the thing that you can say that's going to turn this physical or take it to the next level. And sometimes you just avoid saying it and to keep it from going to that next level. When there's no consequence that could immediately happen and you can type whatever you want you just go to the meanest thing, you know.
Speaker 1:It's just like it's fucking so toxic yeah, I find myself really easily able to not let negative comments get to me, but what is your thoughts on seeing hate comments on some pieces of content that you post?
Speaker 2:A lot of the times it's like. It's like stuff like tell me to change shit about songs and stuff. It's like like they'll it and it's like did you hear that on YouTube? That's just not something you would do so a lot of the times it's just.
Speaker 1:Just bad advice, basically, yeah, it's just in one ear, out the other.
Speaker 2:But the big thing I don't like about social media is when the views aren't as great. It's so mentally draining and you kind of feel like shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah I, it's so mentally draining and you kind of feel like shit. Yeah, I think the only comments that really get to me are comments that do have some truth to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know where it's like a little bit they do you know, I'll, I'll.
Speaker 1:I will find myself, like you know, being in a grind where it's like, like sam said, we we'd have full-time jobs too. So you know, it's like there'll be some weeks where I just don't have enough time to like cut clips out of the full-length podcast that do, and so like I'll just post a not so good clip. And even I know, like this is not my best work and some of the comments would be like what's like one recently, like not everyone should have a podcast or make podcast equipment more expensive. And then I'm thinking like damn, he's right, like that was actually a really bad piece of content in general, like those are the ones that sting like the ones that do have some truth, or like that align with your thought on it too 100 it's like, yeah, he's right, yeah, sometimes it keeps you in check though it does, it does rounded for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, but I think that's also part of what makes it better is going through those periods of, like the, getting a hundred views on a post and then the next one gets a million, and then it's like okay, this is awesome. Like there's nothing that can replace that high of like a real win, you know.
Speaker 3:And that can't be healthy. No, not at all, because, like I've, been stuck when we're popping and our clips are going, especially when they had the old TikTok home screen where every notification would like take up the whole screen.
Speaker 1:Refresh new screen where every notification. Would like take up the whole screen yeah, refresh, new, old page refresh, and I would just watch it and watch it and it's like dude.
Speaker 3:This is sickening.
Speaker 1:I, yeah, it just like. Give me another hit, give me another.
Speaker 3:Check it again in 10 minutes. We have a couple bomb and it's like what the fuck is happening I've had the same shit happen.
Speaker 1:You get in your own head about it. Oh, it's not good, I'm just doing it, just to do it, you know whatever, how do you? Do you have like a content strategy? Like, do you try to employ like some sort of ideology behind how you're posting what you're posting? Is there a strategy behind it?
Speaker 2:I've tried to come up with strategies and then I see someone set their phone up on the counter and take a 15 second video and it gets four million views it's like it's not that deep, we're just gonna post songs people like it.
Speaker 1:People like it when you want, how you want it's like I don't have the.
Speaker 2:I'm an independent artist. I always have been. I don't have the money to pay a full-time videographer, a full-time um editor. It's like I, it's me and my phone and a tripod. Like you, don't got that money, junkie money yeah, no, because that that label money is fucking crazy yeah yeah, that's insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the thing too. It's like um, how many people do you think get propped up because they have the money to put behind something like that? I know I mean, yeah, there's a lot of people that you see even in, like the trending playlists on Spotify, and now come to find out like a lot of these playlists on Spotify are pay-to-play.
Speaker 1:You can just pay enough money to be in these playlists and you'll automatically get all these listeners and get this attention, regardless if you deserve it or not. So there's some aspect that you can replace talent with money.
Speaker 2:Even the Grammys are pay-to-play, really, oh hell yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't even watch the Grammys are pay-to-play, really. Oh hell, yeah, I don't even watch the.
Speaker 2:Grammys Number one hits on Billboard pay-to-play.
Speaker 1:That's insane to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it works. It does, it's marketing money it is. I mean, it's money to advertise for the song. It's like if you have a business and you buy a Billboard and a lot ofac company and they see this hvac and they need their ducks clean at their house, they're gonna just call whoever they just saw.
Speaker 2:if they want to listen to a song, they're gonna just listen to the one that, who you know, spotify gives to them yeah, a big thing I've had people tell me is like bro, if, like, if you had the same marketing as like postone, you would be sky high right now. It's like, well, I don't. So you got to figure out a way to do it, but it's hard to compete with these labels.
Speaker 1:It's a dangerous game because I could see a lot of people putting themselves into a lot of debt to try to do that.
Speaker 2:Well, so a lot of artists fall for the 360 deal where you get offered. A lot of artists fall for the 360 deal where you get offered. They're like here's $600,000 that we're going to give you if you sign right here. Most people are like hell yeah, especially artists that don't have a lot of money. That's $600,000? Come on.
Speaker 1:And so, from what I understand, a lot of those deals are structured where they get every bit of money that you make until that is paid off, correct, okay. Then you start to make money, so it's basically a loan, and then they still get a percentage after that.
Speaker 2:Correct. Wow, and usually their percentage is way higher than yours Because they're taking the risk. Yeah, so the real money artists make is on tour, because labels can't really touch your tour money. But like, yeah, but, um, like yeah. I mean there was a thing of on the internet about snoop dogg. He only made sixty thousand dollars for one of like his biggest hits. Because the label gets a split, the featuring artist gets a split, the producers get a split, the engineers get a split, so at the end of the day it's like you get ten percent of your own song yeah, and I would imagine a guy like snoop dogg you know there could be 30 people involved with a song, exactly and then it's like four writers, yeah, four engineers.
Speaker 1:Oh my god. Yeah, that's insane. And I do know what it costs to get snoop dogg as an appearance, and his appearance fee is not light nowadays, I'm sure it's not. I can't imagine yeah, it is not light. I did actually get to just do photos for this last uh stop that. He was in hinkley, minnesota, here last august or september and so just getting to be around a tour crew like yeah, snoop dogs, is insane I mean like the, the knowledge like the speed that they work.
Speaker 1:It's like to set up a set like what he had, even though it was so simple. It just is insane to me the dynamic of touring. Have you ever? I mean, how do you get started in getting into like a tour schedule? How do you coordinate a tour of your own once you get a big bass following A?
Speaker 2:lot of. That's the label you know'll give you like a like someone, like a tour manager, um, and then basically what you do? You just find what cities are listening to you the most, schedule the tours there, but a lot of people don't realize how hard it is to actually sell tickets oh, I bet.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a big controversy right now because a lot of these huge artists will have big streaming numbers but they can't sell tickets because there's not a lot of real fans like some of the guys.
Speaker 3:When audios would blow up on tiktok, it would get their songs, would have literally a billion listens, but couldn't fill a 500 person venue right you know, and it's. It's got to be crazy, because online, if you're getting a billion streams on your song online, you are famous as fuck but, then out on the streets, it's just. It's just a different game, especially with the way the algorithms are tailored today.
Speaker 3:Like it's crazy I'll see something where that in my head it's as viral as can be, but it's all the same people that have the same interest in me.
Speaker 1:I'll ask a buddy that has a different algo and they're like I have no idea what you're talking about yeah, and I think that makes it way harder nowadays too, because you're reaching a very specific niche audience and, um, I can't remember what the statistic is, but there's uh, something in entertainment right now where there's a large percentage of people that don't share, you know, specific interests, even with their close friends. So, uh, this is becoming more popular on YouTube, like a lot of the channels that I subscribe to, like I don't share a lot of this with my friends, I just consume that myself, like they'll come out with. There's channels that I am just like diehard for, like I watch every single episode, but I'll try to talk to with someone about it and they're like I have no idea who that is. I'm like, how do you not know? Like they have millions of subscribers? How do you not know who this person is?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I never thought about it like that, but there, I mean, it happens all the time on instagram. I'll see, I'll scroll through a video and I'll see, like, oh my gosh, this video has like a million likes to click on the page, 10 million followers. I'm like, how do? How have I never heard this name before?
Speaker 1:10 million people like this person enough to follow them, and I've never even heard this name. I know it's crazy.
Speaker 3:So like world of t-shirts, joshua block oh yeah he is all over my algorithm I made a joke someone. We got like mcdonald's at work or something for the crew and the bit. Some fries fell out of the bag and I was like put the fries in the bag and not one person knew what I was talking about. I was like what? You guys don't see this every day. They're like no, we have no idea.
Speaker 1:And how do?
Speaker 3:you, how do you describe world of t-shirts to somebody Like?
Speaker 1:that's not an easy sell. You just have to see it yourself, yeah, and talk about a hell of a come-up story. I mean, um, yeah, if you had to describe him to someone, what, what would you say?
Speaker 3:like some, a slightly on the spectrum in tiktok influencer, you know, honestly alcoholic it's sad, it's, it's almost sad, because when you start describing him like you feel bad for him because he's in a weird spot where he's got this manager named Mr Based.
Speaker 2:That dude's a piece of shit. He's a literal piece of shit.
Speaker 3:He was just in prison. He's just a known loser.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And he's just exploiting him, making him rage, baiting him and just streaming right in his face to get clicks.
Speaker 1:Oh, God, I saw this live stream of World of Shirts just punching his own face. Yeah. I only made 400k this year punching himself in the face, dude it's so sad because what's going on it's like it's not okay.
Speaker 3:You know he obviously is on the spectrum and he's crashing out constantly, but for some reason you just cannot stop watching it like it's just. It's world-class tv, dude, that is where tv is now it's unbelievable, I mean yeah shout out josh man, I know you're listening yeah, josh and kanye are two biggest listeners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are your thoughts on the whole kanye controversy going on right now? I mean talk about a brilliant mind, but whoa when you position yourself in?
Speaker 2:a light like that. That's insane I just I don't know what how blurred the line is between mental illness and just trying to get people to notice like yeah, you know what I mean? Because he's always been the type that doesn't like he just, he'll just while out and do some crazy shit, yeah. And then it's like, oh, I'm dropping an album. Yes, this is like what the fuck, dude, super bowl commercial.
Speaker 1:Takes out a super bowl commercial and the only shirt on there is a swastika. It's. It's like what are you doing?
Speaker 2:yeah and then it makes it hard to like listen to his music still, and like kanye is a huge inspiration for me, like uh college dropout was my beautiful, dark, twisted fantasy is my favorite album of all time. Yeah, and then it's like I'm listening to it. It's like this dude like rocks swastikas. Now, what are you?
Speaker 3:doing. I mean I was. I was just looking at some of his, his music and from 2000, early 2000s to about 2015, like if he would have just retired there, he would have gone down as a music god you know, like if he wouldn't have done all like he did crazy things before that, but it was nothing too wild people just kind of. But you know, in the last 10 years it's like I can't. I love kanye, I can't defend him anymore.
Speaker 1:It's done, I've given up it's like I'm still gonna listen.
Speaker 3:I'm guilty pleasure listen to his music, but I'm not going to openly fucking love Kanye. I know.
Speaker 2:It's sad Because he honestly like his early albums. Like you're right, if he would have retired at that point, one of the greatest to ever do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've streamed the song. Can't tell me nothing yeah thousands of times.
Speaker 2:That used to be like the song I would listen to like pre-gaming or like hyping myself up to go do something it was always can't tell me nothing yeah, and then, if you like, watch those videos of him in the studio sampling and shit like that. Yeah, he was a genius, yeah his, his documentary on netflix.
Speaker 3:I've watched it three times the dude's a genius it's just sad to see crashing out because like he was going to go down as one of the best all time, just I wouldn't even say like artist, but just influential in the music game, like, and now I mean I don't. I wonder how people are going to talk about him in 20 30 years yeah because, like 808s and heartbreak changed the rap game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like he's just always been like at the forefront of changing the face of music and now it's like how do you, how do you, how did we get to this point?
Speaker 1:like it's sad yeah, I think I mean. With that being said, how do you want people to remember jay zole 20 years from now?
Speaker 2:honestly, I just want people to find some kind of comfort in my music, like they could look back and be like, yeah, that song got me through some shit. I was doing a show it might have been Jake's, actually that you guys were at. I met a fan and he came up and he was like yo man, I'm a huge fan, you know, I love your music. And he's like, if I'm gonna be completely honest, like some of your, like you, you saved my life. Like you, I was suicidal, my girl left and your music was like the main thing that got me through it and like that moment changed like everything for me. Um, it, just that alone is worth more than any dollar amount, any amount of fame you could give me. Like my music was enough to impact this guy's life in a positive way and that's what I want. I don't care I I would be fine with not being the most famous guy on earth, but if I could help someone get through a shitty point in their life with my music, that's enough for me. Honestly.
Speaker 1:Damn. Very well said. I think mine would be. I want to remember Cody as the most fit, handsome guy that.
Speaker 3:I've ever met.
Speaker 1:And he was so nice and so humble, so down to earth, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, dude, and so humble, so down to earth, I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah, dude, I mean honestly that's. It's one of those things where it's like music you can touch people in such a different way I music is always like I've I've always felt the connection to it and how I can just get instant goosebumps from a song yeah, it's different, like it's.
Speaker 3:It is amazing what it can do for people emotionally and like, like you were saying, like I think a songs, like certain songs throughout my life, I can relate back to a certain time, whether it was good or bad, where I'll hear it now and I'll be like, oh man, this one really helped me.
Speaker 3:I remember put this one was hitting every time I got in the car at this point and like then, other songs like my hype songs, like can't tell me nothing that's literally like one of mine. Or first day out by t grizzly if I have, if I have to get hyped up for something like serious that I'm doing. That's the last thing I'll listen to where it's like I'm just getting ready.
Speaker 1:Well, there's a lot of songs that I can think of, that I know exactly where I was, what was around me, who I was with when I first heard that song, and like that's always what I associate it with.
Speaker 1:And so there's a lot of songs from like a certain time period that I can just remember that that was such a good time period that all those songs are still in heavy rotation on my Spotify. You know things like that rotation on my Spotify. You know things like that. So it's like when you can reach people at a certain time in their life and it's it's always just so different. It's always a time and a place, because that's where you get some of these songs that are way ahead of their time, because you realize, like, this is the sound that I really like, that you find, at a different point it just resonates more, resonates better, and um, yeah, it a different point, it just resonates more, resonates better, and um, yeah, it's. It's just such an interesting dynamic because how you create it and what you create is so much different than how people can perceive it and they kind of put their own spin on it, I know or interpret it a different way.
Speaker 2:Music's always been like my therapy, basically um, it's like when I was going through shit. You know super low points in my life, just knowing that the stuff that I created in that time where I was at a low point can help someone else at a low point. You know that, like I said, it's worth more than any dollar amount to have someone come up and say you know, you saved my life with your music.
Speaker 1:I mean that's life with your music. I mean, that's Well, I think, now more than ever, the barrier to entry to doing anything you want to do, especially creative as far as content. As far as music, anything is lower than ever. Yeah, what would you say as a piece of advice to younger kids or really anyone just trying to get involved with music in general? Yeah, on how to start and how to frame your mindset, on how to get some level of traction yeah, so I'm a pretty good example of this.
Speaker 2:Um, I started, like I said, where I started um, no connections to anybody in the music industry. Literally just me, a laptop and a mic. Um, you just gotta not give a fuck what anyone thinks of you. Um, because people are gonna hate on you, especially when you're, you know, starting out. People are gonna be like this dude sucks, he's never going anywhere high school people love hating in high school.
Speaker 3:Hell yeah, they love hating bro, even now.
Speaker 2:Oh man, dude, they're ruthless, yeah, but um, you, just you. You can't care what people think of you, and you just gotta do it. If you love it, do it. I mean, why wouldn't you? You get you're alive one time, why would you not If?
Speaker 3:you don't do it out of fear of what other people are gonna think you're just cheating yourself you know A hundred percent, 100%.
Speaker 2:I mean, if I was thinking this like I can't think back to a time where I remember seeing like someone I didn't know in public do something and I was like I'm going to remember that for 20 years I'm never going to forget what that person did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually I got to read you this quote that I just sent to Sam the other day. This is in a previous episode. We were just talking about anxiety and personal development.
Speaker 3:Because he doesn't have anxiety.
Speaker 1:No, I definitely do, me and the other guy that we're on.
Speaker 3:We're trying to explain to him how it works.
Speaker 1:I've dealt with it pretty bad I definitely have anxiety, but I think I'm sort of one of those cases where anxiety is like I use it to fuel me rather than use it to stop.
Speaker 3:He doesn't have the depression paired. Yeah, it's not like depression, anxiety.
Speaker 1:It's like, yeah, um, you know, like in like a constant need to feel like I'm overachieving anxiety yeah keep pushing because of the fear of being complacent with where I am and that, I think, deters my ability to be happy with where I am at any. I do with that. You know what I mean. So I sent this to sam. It says anxiety tip next time you cringe over something embarrassing. Or next time you cringe over some embarrassing moment you had years ago, try to remember other people's embarrassing moments exactly you can't, can you?
Speaker 1:that's because you're the only embarrassing human to exist. Everyone else is always thinking about how cringy you are that's funny, you know so, but but I mean going off of what you said, like you cannot remember something cringy that other people would say. But there is like a handful of moments I can remember in my life and I'm like I still think about, like randomly when I'm laying in bed, like why?
Speaker 2:are those wars? Why did I say?
Speaker 1:that your heart just dropped they probably think I'm a loser.
Speaker 3:I will ruin my day off of something I said when I was 16.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Me too, I know Me too, yeah, so I mean, you know what it really comes down to is like I think everyone is more critical of themselves than everyone else. 100%. You will remember way more than anyone else will about yourself and you just gotta. You just gotta do your own thing. You just gotta only focus on what you got going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's really the way to succeed, and I think that's kind of like the theme that we see in people that we talk to. That's like anyone who has achieved any level of success, whether whether it's high or low, always has this mentality of you can't let other people's thoughts get in the way of what you have going on.
Speaker 2:You just got to realize like a lot of the huge reason people hate on you or hate on other people is because they got some deep rooted insecurities themselves. Like a lot of people that hated on me were probably at some point like I'd want to do music, that'd be kind of cool. And they see someone else doing it or like a podcast. Like oh fuck, I would want to do a podcast. They're doing it.
Speaker 3:Fuck them, that shit sucked mine would have been way better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly yeah, and I think that's um, I was just actually listening to a podcast talking about like the root of passive aggression and like what passive aggression is, and all passive aggression stems from something that you see in yourself that you don't like about yourself and pointing it out to that person. Yeah, and to them it doesn't seem like that, but it seems like you're only coming at them, you know. So I mean and that just goes right back to internet comments you know you can't let that impact what you have going on, but it does hurt when there's a sense of truth to it it does.
Speaker 2:But those, those people that left the comment, probably swiped away and forgot you even existed right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're not even going to remember the piece of content they comment exactly.
Speaker 3:But I'll be thinking about that for weeks oh 100 yeah, I think you know, going off of what you said, with just being yourself, you know it's, it's a cliche, but especially in today's, the way that the internet's working today is, people are sick of all this fake, orchestrated, hollywood-orchestrated bullshit. They just want genuine people and the genuine like. Look at someone like Jelly Roll, someone that just pours his heart out there and gives these crazy speeches and people just love him.
Speaker 1:He's a good artist.
Speaker 3:He's not the best artist you ever heard, but right now he's at the top because people love the guy, you know, and I I think just being genuine is everything 100.
Speaker 2:I agree. I think that's a a reason a lot of people get attracted to my music. A lot of it's like about heartbreak. You know a lot of shit that guys don't really talk about. Um, heartbreak, anxiety, shit like that, and I think that's a huge reason why a lot of people try to come to my music. Um, it's just I, I talk about it cause it's like why wouldn't we?
Speaker 1:100%. Well, jay dude, I want to thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Is there anything?
Speaker 1:is there anything that you want to plug before we get out of here?
Speaker 2:uh, shout out my boy manny for cutting my hair. You got me right easy. Cuts in saint cloud.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah all right, well, go follow jay zole on every platform. It's the same name on everything, right, yeah, j-a-e-z-o-l-e go stream his music on spotify go follow him on instagram go to youtube, madden 24. Go throw a throwback listen to him, go back and watch the live stream of the Bitcoin Festival, where he was on Logic's set. I think just go support him. Go support him and we'll see you next week.
