DECA AL Was Arrested: The Raid on His House, MN Cannabis, & the Law

Sirens, lights, and an armored MRAP—used against a nonviolent cannabis grower known for helping his neighbors. Mitch joins us to break down what really happened to Al, why the response didn’t match the risk, and how a tangled web of cannabis laws turned a community builder into a headline. We look past the sound bites to examine the raid, the surveillance timeline, shifting charges, and the system that made it all possible.

We dig into Minnesota’s cannabis rollout: the rapid rise of the Office of Cannabis Management, why “legal” doesn’t always mean “safe,” and how social equity promises unraveled under lawsuits and red tape. Small operators face zoning roadblocks, licensing catch-22s, and costly compliance requirements that favor deep-pocketed corporations over local craft producers. Along the way, we share firsthand stories that reveal Al’s real impact on families, patients, and the community.

We also challenge the logic behind current policy. A 70% THC cap and strict edible limits sound protective but can actually undermine product safety and patient choice. We explore how these rules create perverse incentives, dilute clean products, and raise constitutional questions about Minnesota’s long-standing right to sell farm and garden goods without a license.

If you care about smarter regulation, real safety, and a fair path for small businesses, this conversation is for you. Listen, share, and let us know: what rule would you change first?

DECA AL GO FUND ME LINK HERE

0:00 Intro & Why This Story Matters
1:23 The Raid & Militarized Response
5:30 Charges, Optics, and Community Impact
12:00 Al’s Story & Local Testimonials
20:12 Legal vs Safe Cannabis
24:05 OCM, Social Equity & Lawsuits
31:08 Compliance Costs & Big Business Advantage
40:00 Constitutional Questions
46:00 THC Caps, Edibles & Safety
55:00 Trust, Freedom & Final Thoughts

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Transcript

Welcome Back & Why Mitch Is Here

SPEAKER_03 0:00

All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the OnTap Podcast here. We're coming back to you after a long hiatus. We have a special episode for you today. Um, our good friend and previous podcast guest, Deka Al, was recently taken into custody, and uh we brought his brother Mitch on here to uh give us some more information and just kind of uh explain the situation and what's going on and give us some facts. Um, Mitch, if you want to take it away, the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you guys having me on today. So, and I definitely want to explain some of the different things that are going on with Al's situation. Obviously, with it being an open investigation, there's gonna be things that, you know, we can't really talk about. Um, but there's a lot of facts and a lot of things that I think it's important for the community to know and understand. Uh, and also, you know, part of not only covering Al's story and Al's situation, I want to cover, you know, cannabis in general in the state of Minnesota. How's it going? Right? Two and a half years since legalization, where we're at. What are dispensaries looking like?

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

What are the, you know, what's the product that's out on the market? What's going on? The rules, the regulations. We'll talk a little bit about the about the uh Minnesota State Constitution.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Um, so some interesting things I've got to bring to the audience today that I think uh uh what do you want to talk about first?

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Do you want to talk about Al's situation first?

The Raid, Surveillance, And Kids In The Car

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah, I do. I do. I really want to talk about Al's situation here. Um, so as a lot of people in the community know, his uh house was raided very very publicly. Very publicly, right? Uh and they they got him, right? They got this uh very performative, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Put on a show for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, and they they got this uh this horrible person off the streets, right? This this evil, evil person um that grows cannabis. Right? Yeah, you're growing cannabis, you have cannabis. It's legal, but you're a horrible person for doing it. Yeah. Um, and so you know, it's interesting when you look at this case in this situation because with the with law enforcement, uh allegedly they followed him for two months and watched him for two months. When they ambushed him in his Tesla and picked him up, he had his kids with him. Two young children, a three-year-old and a five-year-old. The five-year-old has special needs, he's uh mentally handicapped. Um, you know, and uh I I just I guess I don't really understand how law enforcement can watch him for two months and not know that he that he had kids. First off.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

That was the whole thing. They said they didn't know that he had kids and didn't know they had kids with him.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, we have uh video footage actually from the police raiding the uh um the property, and they literally said they had no idea he had kids. And I just couldn't I I guess I don't really understand if you watch somebody for two months how you know that how you don't know he doesn't have kids.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Especially considering part of his daily commute involves going like first thing in the morning, going to child care. Right. Right. And to have weapons drawn pointed at him and the kids during it, I mean it's crazy.

Militarized Tactics And The MRAP Debate

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Right. And part of the thing they said is he tried to flee or something along those lines, I think, is part of it. Again, I don't want to talk too much about the investigation, but it's really interesting because I guess if you're driving down a road in a remote area in this country and you have police surround you with military gear, um, which is another thing I want to talk about because they brought an MRAP out. Um which is what? Can you explain what an MRAP is? Yeah, so an MRAP is an armored military vehicle. It's actually not meant for um policing communities. If you it's funny because in researching, of course, a lot of us do this now, I think uh we use a AI, artificial intelligence, you know, and I enjoy having conversations with my AI. Um, and so I literally just asked AI what an MRAP is and the definition and what the capabilities are and things of that nature. One of the first things that AI tells me is it's not for community policing, right? So it's interesting that AI understands this aspect of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Like a highly specific militarized right.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

It's a and so when I did some research on it, this uh particular piece of military gear was created uh during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars because the number one killer of US soldiers was IEDs, and so they needed to make um improvised explosive devices, of course. So I think we all are familiar with that term, but anyways, um so uh, you know, they they had to make a vehicle to protect our soldiers that are overseas fighting for our freedom, which makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

So this thing is obviously heavily armored, heavily armored. This is typically if you've been watching someone for two months, right? You and you're under the assumption that they're just growing cannabis.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

You wouldn't be under the assumption that they have some sort of weapons that you would need a heavily armored vehicle for, right? Or is this just is this just standard protocol? This it to me, it just seems very performative.

Respect For Police, But Questioning Methods

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah, and I guess that's a question you'd have to ask local law enforcement. Um, uh the drug task force, uh, I believe it's the East Central Drug Task Force that collaborated on this and uh they come together and we'll do these raids, which you know, I certainly appreciate their service to the community because there are dangerous people in the community that need to be taken out and need to be put in jail. There's no doubt about that. So I'm not and and I want to be clear on that. I I definitely don't want to criticize law enforcement for the great things that they do for our community. It shouldn't be a total demonizing situation, right? And I know, you know, they do that to my brother, they demonize my brother, and they don't want to look at any other aspect or any laws or any other specifics within a conversation about this, but I'm not going to do the same thing they're doing. I I have a lot of respect for law enforcement, and I do understand they put their lives at risk every day, and I do appreciate that. So for any law enforcement listening, uh, I thank you for your service, and I really appreciate it. Um, I just question the tactics is all, right? What what kind of community do we want to live in? And I I might add, with my brother, he has a criminal history. No doubt. If you look at his criminal history, it's all related to cannabis. Growing a plant.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Yeah. The trouble is they see the sheet. Right. They don't see that. Right. They don't see the harmless aspect of it. Right. They see this guy's a felon. Right. Watch him.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Right. And you know, and I can understand it. I can appreciate it because I know that law enforcement goes after dangerous people. My brother's not one of them. Right. You know, and that's the reality of it. This is a sad reality. Are we going to live in a state and a country where we're not allowed basic freedoms? I mean, think about it from this fundamental level. Explain to me where in the United States Constitution, the state of Minnesota Constitution, or anywhere, where government has a right inherently to dictate to us as a free people what we can and cannot do with our body and mind.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Yeah. Obviously, this is public information. Correct. What is Al being charged with? What did they take him in under?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, so um the charges are all related to um, I believe, possession of marijuana, um, selling marijuana, things of that nature. I actually, and I apologize for that, I actually don't know the specific legal language as to what they're charging him for. But I I do understand that it's a first degree charge.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

They changed them too, correct? Wasn't it originally five?

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Right. They it is, it's down to two. There's a first degree and a third degree charge. Um, and of course, I'm not a lawyer, right? So I don't know exactly how to explain every specific thing as it pertains to the legal side of things.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

That and things change so like with cases, you know, a week from now it could be different. It could they could switch it up and you know change your mind on another thing too. So it's constantly adapting.

Charges, Shifting Counts, And Stakes

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Right. A hundred percent. And you know, I I think, you know, when we pull this together and we look at it and we think about the situation in totality, I I think one of the things that I think about in any given situation, when you talk about enforcing laws and putting people in jail, I mean it's a pretty heavy-handed thing to take someone, take away their freedom, and you know, and and put them in a cage, right? That's a that's a big thing, that's a serious thing. And so, you know, at the end of the day, you think about this and you go, okay, well, what what people are we putting in jail, right? And we would all like to think that we put the most violent, horrible, I guess, evil, if you want to use a simple term like that, people in jail. And that's kind of the idea behind it from a societal sense. It's people that I think, and this is the way I look at it at a fundamental level, the people that that uh provide a deficit to your society that hurt others, that damage others, property, right? Steal things from people. It's people that are damaging your community and your society. And I and I just find it interesting because Al is not that. No, he's he's actually somebody that he couldn't be further from it. Right. Yeah, right. And so he's a net gain for the community, and and that's part of what I wanted to talk about today. I was really shocked when my brother went to jail, because I obviously don't uh have involvement with all the things that he's got going on. I have my own life going on, of course. Right, like uh, you know, so I don't know all these things. I couldn't believe how many people reached out to me via Facebook to tell me their stories.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

I think it's a good good plug to, I mean, just even with like me and Cody, like yeah, well, specifically with On Tap and the Sticks, yeah.

Who Belongs In Jail And Community Impact

SPEAKER_03 9:08

We had a I don't know if I don't think anyone actually knows this. We never really made this public, but for the second time we did On Tap and the Sticks, we wanted to do a huge costume party or costume contest for Halloween, and we wanted to do a thousand dollar costume contest, and that was gonna be the whole big deal. We had a sponsor lined up for it and everything at the very last minute. I want to say like the day before the sponsor backed out, and Al stepped up and took that on and said, I will give you the thousand dollars, right? I will sponsor the costume contest. And I was like, wow, that this is actually nuts. Right. Obviously, we you know tried to make it work so that he had a lot more value on his end, and we always promote the guy, give him as much publicity as we can, have him on the podcast, whatever. But um, and at the end of the day, the guy is like you said, he's definitely a net positive for the community, no doubt. He's a very nice guy, so willing to help anyone.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah, definitely. Like he um a little background, like I mean him work together a lot, like getting his um uh packaging and products and overall brand kind of kind of dissecting like his characteristics and personality and uh working with that and kind of like giving it a visual uh you know, just making it visually, you know. It's like there was so much like research into him, but just like genuinely, like for people that don't know him or have never even seen him and only seen him the first time in the headlines. Like this guy, I've never met a more genuine, passionate, and like real person that really cares about putting out good product, right? And right not just the product itself, but the whole the whole point and doing everything is clean and it his organic, like no added solvents, no nothing. Like throughout the whole process, he like his hands made it throughout the whole process and outsource it once, even if it could have been ten times more profitable. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

If he scaled it up, it's it's not about the profit, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

But that's the thing he genuinely cared about people, and like a lot of his clients were like cancer patients. Yeah, like yeah, he would make these crazy commutes like to go deliver these products.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

I mean, I don't yeah, and and and to that point, Bodhi, I actually have some of these stories. Like I told you, there's a lot of people that reached out to me on Facebook, and so I just wanted to kind of read some of these things that people said about them because I just think it's you know, it's amazing. I mean, some of the people that reach out, I it's just hard to believe.

Al’s Generosity And Local Stories

SPEAKER_00 11:41

And part part of the effort too in like establishing his brand was to convey to the customer, like, hey, this is something you can trust. Correct. Because he first approached me, I want to say, yeah, it was probably I can't even remember how long ago. A couple years ago, probably his first thing was, hey, I need something that can like I need to put my like something that says this is from me because there was a bunch of carts floating around locally that they were they were adding uh um yeah, they were just putting like other drugs inside these vapor.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

That is a huge problem in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

And it's like so it's like, holy shit, this actually is like some real shit.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah, like yeah, and I've got some facts on that too, as far as the state regulations and some of those things, and how the state regulations actually make the product being produced in the state less safe. And we'll talk about that. It's really an interesting conversation, it's real technical. I do do a lot of research to understand this, but it's really, really cool. It's really interesting when you actually look into the facts of something and you start understanding what's going on here. But I wanted to briefly read some of these, these I guess I don't know, for lack of a better word, testimonials. Um, and I know I had uh it was funny, I was just having a conversation with my other brother, Phil, on the way here, and he had uh a gentleman that was on a call with him and he joined the call, so it was a three-way call. And uh this guy was talking about when he had to move from Force Lake, um, or maybe it was Pine City to Force Lake, I can't remember exactly where he was moving. Um, but he didn't have any help. And my brother literally paid people to go help him. He didn't have to do that. Yeah, just did it because that's who he is. Yes, if you reach out and ask for help, my brother. He will help you. Yes, like any capacity that he can, he will. He's just that way. He's a very, very generous person.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

This is the same brother who after his house burned down with his 10 kids, his house burned down a year ago. Yeah, and he moved in with Al.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Well, he he he had to move into that duplex because they had no property to they're they had no place to live.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Like same day he was there on the ground, yep, helping put out fire.

Product Safety, Trust, And Brand Integrity

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. Yeah, no, this is just this is just his personality. If you spend if you spend five minutes around my brother, you start you pick it up. It's not that hard to figure out some personality after talking to him briefly. So you'll see this. I so I I just want to read a couple of these things because I just think they're fascinating. And and you know, and just to I just want to say this too. I I don't have time to read, well, I don't think we'd have time to read all the things that I've had people send me. Um, but I just again wanted to read a few of them and give you a couple of examples. So um, this is someone that uh takes care of his uh children. So um, you know, he's uh what she said was uh you know, and I I just don't really want to use people's names because I don't want to alienate anyone, so I better apologize. I mean I I certainly don't mind that transparency, but I you know, you know, it's just one of those deals. So um, but she says that she's had uh his uh his daughter, who's three years old, since November of 2024. And what she says is Al has been hands down, nothing but an amazing day parent and friend. He is a wonderful daddy and loves his kids the most. I've seen firsthand how he has never put his kids in any harm and has done nothing but the best for them both. He's been honest and has communicated with me since day one. So um, on top of that, I've got a couple other these are these ones are really good. I when I got these, I was like, oh my god, he really is making a difference, right? So the way that Decca earned my respect and loyalty is that my grandma, who has fibromyalgia that I was living with to help take care of, she smokes a little bit of cannabis or rubs a topical cream on her skin, and it helps her pain enough to let her lead a somewhat normal life. I had asked Dekka about clones and what I would do with it, and he's like, out of respect for you, uh doing there's three, sorry, some of these testimonials, right? It's people texting me. Yes. Um so for what you're doing, here's three man, and he gave me the chance to provide medicine for my grandma out of the kindness of his heart. Tell me that's a man worthy of my respect and loyalty, and I see how much love he has for his kids, and more parents should be like DECA in one love. I have another one here. Um, and again, I'm not gonna read all of these, but I just wanted to give you guys a couple of these. So I fatefully met Al when I was at one of the darkest points of my life. As a single mom of my uh sorry, of a single mom of two young boys, I battled PTSD, ADHD, major depression disorder, and severe trauma. I didn't have anybody on my life showing me consistency and trusting people as terrifying to me. But Al immediately brought genuine care, friendship, and safety into my life. He was the only person to check on my boys, and I almost are almost daily, just to see if they were doing all right. On top of uh gaining a big brother, he also guided me through my first grow, which I am forever grateful for, because I can now successfully grow my own medicine. Al is a rare gem, and our community feels less safe in his absence. So I guess at the end of the day, I mean, are are those the type of people that we want to put in jail? Fundamentally speaking, I mean, we can talk about the laws, we can talk about what's legal.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah. Is it right? There's two sides to the coin here, obviously. 100%. We want to we want to make sure that things are legal because the average person's interpretation of what legal means is safe. Correct. But I think that's what we're coming down to in this situation. Legal in my mind in the cannabis industry does not mean safe. Right. Because there's specific rules that are set up to sort of make sure that it's not right. So if you could run us through some of that information, I think that's super interesting.

Testimonials From Families And Patients

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah, so there are so many fascinating things with the cannabis industry, and I and I think there's a lot of things to talk about here. Um, let's talk about how long cannabis has been legal for. I think I mentioned earlier in the podcast here. Um, two and a half years. Cannabis has been legal.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Yeah, but what is legal? Because I mean, can I, as an average citizen, have a joint in my pocket and smoke it outside of pizza pub after I'm done eating dinner with my family? Um what what is the legality? I have no idea how that I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

I feel like there's so it's so mystified. Right. And part of that is, you know, when you're talking about possessing a joint, that's that's legal because you can have or possess up to two pounds. But you're talking about consuming it now in a public place. And that's where it's illegal. Well, not necessarily. I I you know some of these laws, and to be honest with you, I don't, I don't even know myself. It's all where I would assume. It's all well, I mean, what is what are the city ordinances? What does the county have for regulation? What is the right? I mean, you start diving into this, and it's like, okay, well, there's a lot of confusion here.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Um, I think city, county, state, federal, all different rules.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Right, all different rules.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

And they can they can contradict each other, correct? Oh, and they absolutely do. They absolutely do. Is it even fully set up like when it comes to state level? Like, are they still tinkering around with finalizing everything? Or like, because I mean, like, I it seems like they're coming out with new revisions, like quite a bit. It seems vague.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

It seems so vague. Yeah, there is and and to be honest with you guys, I've read the rule book from OCM on how to operate a cannabis business.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

And OCM is what? Sorry, it's I hear that that those three letters tossed around a lot.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yeah, it's the Office of Cannabis Management. And so it's really interesting, actually, in this conversation, because we have a couple of different drugs, if you will, that are legal in the state. One is alcohol. We all know, right? We we know the impacts of alcohol, the amount of law enforcement interaction that people have, whether it's DUIs, whether it's uh abusing spouses, whether it's uh, you know, fights, drunkenness. Um, we know the problems that alcohol causes.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

The tricky part is it's all perspective and optics. It's it is it really is just well, this has been accepted for so long, but this hasn't.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

I would say arguably cannabis is way more of a net positive than alcohol, you know.

Legal vs Safe: The Confusion

SPEAKER_01 19:40

I mean You want to know an interesting thing. I remember um when I was in college, I wrote a paper about uh these topics about the war on drugs and things of that nature. And I remember researching alcohol, and I found a study that showed that alcohol is the most dangerous drug in the world. I could totally see it. It's more dangerous than methamphetamines, cocaine, heroin. More dangerous? People are like, well, how does that how is that even possible? Well, it's the amount of law enforcement interactions that come from using alcohol, from being drunk. Yeah, right? And it's not to say that, oh, we should have heroin and meth because alcohol is more dangerous. I'm not suggesting that that's a little bit over the top.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

There's a dynamic here that we also have to dissect that it's socially acceptable. And not only not only acceptable, but also encouraged. Yes. That it's like you glamor do this when you let loose. This is what you do. Yeah, social lubricant. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

A hundred percent. Yeah, and the glamorization of it and the social acceptance of alcohol is actually part of the reason why it is considered as dangerous as it is. That really is. Very easily accessible. So so we have alcohol here on one hand, okay? The state regulates alcohol, obviously. It's a highly regulated industry, like cannabis is, or firearms or other industries that are highly regulated. So you guys have any idea how many employees the state of Minnesota has to regulate alcohol? No. Twenty to twenty-five.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

For the whole state.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

For the whole state.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

That are that are choosing actively what regulations they place on alcohol?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Well, it's the enforcement of um alcohol regulations and ensuring that distilleries and liquor stores and things of that nature are following all the regulations. They have 20 to 25 employees.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

This is enforcement or the people that are creating the rules for it?

SPEAKER_01 21:25

So um or is it a mix of both? It's it's just state of Minnesota employees. Because if if you start looking at enforcement, then you know you could have an argument where you can include all local law enforcement. Yeah, right. I mean, it could really expand beyond that. I'm saying that this is just their job. This is just their job. There's 20 to 25 people, regulators, if you will, at the state of Minnesota that, you know, regulate alcohol.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

And the point is from what you know what what uh percentage it can be sold, and what quantities, and what volumes, and where and how. Yep. It's all the specifics. Yeah.

OCM, Alcohol vs Cannabis Oversight

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Right? It's all the details. Um, and and really it's in the interest of safety. That's that's why we We'd have twenty to twenty five regulators that are hired by the state of Minnesota to enforce to enforce these things and and make sure the rules are being followed and also, you know, write rules that need to be changed.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

So are these the same people that they would like send out for I assume like inspections or something? Okay. So they're not only responsible for the legislature, but also boots on the ground checking out in the field.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yeah. Yeah. As far as I know, I mean, and and I will preface it with this, because there may be somebody that's listening that actually works in this area, and they might be like, well, that's not what I do. Right, I don't I don't work in that agency, so I don't know all the specifics, but that that that's my understanding. Overall, yeah, overarching. Correct. I and I just bring this up because um I just wanted to ask you guys, how many people do you think we have in the state of Minnesota that are employed by the state to regulate cannabis? I would have no idea. 150.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

And that was just put in place within the last two and a half years.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Correct. And not only that, it's an entire state agency. It's an entire state agency. We created our taxpaying payers' money is going to creating an entire state agency to regulate cannabis. So we have 25 people for alcohol, 150 for cannabis. Now, in fairness, let's have this conversation because it's setting up a new industry. So of course you're gonna need more people, right? But are those 150 people temporary? No, they're permanently.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

I mean, the the weight and the delta between how many liquor stores there are and how many dispensaries there are, it's gotta be a hundred to one.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

I mean, it's not even close. Right. So the difference in how many eyes are on it says to me that this is just more profitable. Or my other my other thought is obviously we live in a state where they're very comfortable spending the money that we give them. And I think this is just a very easy way to blow through it.

Taxes, Incentives, And Optics

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Right. Well, and and that's kind of my thing too. I look at these numbers when I research this, and I wonder, you know, why why do we need that many people to regulate an industry, a plant that grows naturally? Alcohol can kill people. You can drink enough alcohol to die. You can't actually consume enough cannabis to die. So so where's the r why? Why is there this ratio? Why do we spend this much money? And what it comes down to, I think, and and and you know, you touched on it a little bit, Cody, you're talking about revenue, taxes. The state of Minnesota taxes cannabis at 22%. So almost a quarter of the profits within industry go to the state. And what does the state do with that tax money?

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Well, we're finding out right now. We are finding out right now, right? Nothing that we like, you know, it seems like. Right. And it it's funny because we were talking about this a little bit off camera, but it's like uh we live in a state where we're under the guise of Minnesota is so for the people.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

That's not the case. Right. It's really not. And it seems like there's all these issues that are so politicized in in our area specifically. That's like it's it's all on the Republicans, it's all on the Democrats. It's like it's not. Right. And the average person in average conversations, that doesn't come up. Right. These philosophies, they're so they're just generated. Right. And it does really truly feel like look over here because we got this going on over here, right? You know, like it why don't we let the monkeys fight over this banana while we're while we're taking down the trees?

Social Equity Lottery And Lawsuits

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Hey, you're not you're not wrong. I mean, and you look at the chaos in our state, you look at the situations, and and I'm not trying to take sides, I'm not trying to say Democrat, Republican, whatever. I'm not having those arguments. I mean, good ideas are good ideas. Good people are good people, nefarious people are nefarious people. Why does it have to be more complicated than this? Why does it have to be people are demonized? Why does it have to be we hate each other? Over what? Because you wear a red hat or you like the Democrats or whatever it is, right? I mean, it's ridiculous. The whole premise of it is is asinine, to be honest with you, you know, and is kind of playing into their hand. But but here we have a situation where, you know, why did they go and get Al? Somebody that's helping the community out, somebody that cares about people in a real way. It's money. It's taxes. That's what it's about. Is it about making things more safe? Is it about building communities? No, it's about taxes, it's about money.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

And let me talk a little bit about that. Because people will will say, well, yeah, just this one thing or this. Well, no, no, it's more than that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Let me let me play devil's advocate here for a second. Absolutely. From an outside perspective, if you didn't know him and you didn't know what was going on, right? I would also be in the same boat. I would assume this guy had a lot of cannabis. Right, right. And he was obviously in some sort of a distribution triangle with this. Sure. Let's get him out of there.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

I mean, that is the perspective of the law. You know, and from that perspective, I do think that that makes sense. However, knowing the dynamic of who he is, what he does, and the things he does, I think that that definitely changes it. You know, where it's like instead of I'm not saying instead of cracking down, because I think a lot of people in his situation probably would abuse that power that he has to the point where it's like, yeah, this is not a good person. We do need to get him out of that community. But that's not the scenario. Right. It's really not. It's not.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

And, you know, it's it's these biases that people have and the stories that people spin and these ideas that people have kind of cemented deeply in our minds as far as like, oh, these people are good and these people are bad. And we think through these simple terms, right? So that that kind of plays into these things. And and I guess to me, um, if someone is breaking the law with cannabis, I I do understand it, right? You you do need to have regulations and rules because of just what you said, Cody. But are we sending an MRAP? A military vehicle designed to protect soldiers in a war zone? Are we saying an NRAP? Or are we sending a person that looks like me with a clipboard and a fine and taking those products and fining the person? What what's the proper penalty here? I and I again I'm not suggesting there should be no penalty, but but what what's the proper tactic?

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Yeah, if you have the resources to surveil him for two months, right? You would think that they would understand this isn't El Chapo. Right, right. Well, and that's the other funny part of the thing. It's like what it's like, what? Right. And then and then obviously you can't do this for every single scenario, but why is there not more things in place? It's like this guy obviously has logistics down from a perspective that not the average person couldn't.

Big Business Advantages And Lobbying

SPEAKER_00 28:44

And wouldn't it be to I mean, one could almost argue too that on a state level, they would almost be incentivized to send someone in with a clipboard for the promise of what you said, since he has a logistics set up. He has the the cadence down and the contacts. It's like, well, he would be very one would say he'd be very valuable for future revenue for the state if he was to cough up a little bit. Right. Like, why why pluck the why pluck the roots out? Right. Just like trim the leaves a little bit, right, yeah. Keep the system going. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

It makes it makes the most sense. But again, we're talking about things that make sense. Um to average people. Yeah. We're not, you know, we're not lawyers, we're not special. We don't right. And that's part of it that's frustrating. And I think it is frustrating for a lot of just average citizens in this world because you have lawyers and politicians and people that tell you that they know best. Yeah. They know what's best for you. And you're an average person, go sit in the corner and lay by your dish. That's the message. Yes. Because this is the law, because we said so.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Meanwhile, how many of our politicians are corrupt? How many of them are getting kickbacks? How many of them are making a so what you're telling me is if I wear a suit and tie, then I can be a criminal. And how many about the gray area? I I don't know. What's the answer there?

SPEAKER_03 30:11

No, you're right. There's too many of these career politicians getting rich, getting rich for doing what? Right. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. It's crazy to me that we live in a state that claims to be so for and pro small business when in reality it seems to be the exact opposite. Why isn't there a clearer path for someone like him to be legit? Yeah. When in reality, it's actually set up exact opposite. It's set up for the monopolies to form.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Right. And yeah, touching on that too, it's like even just the legalization of Minnesota saying, like, hey, we want to do this with the promise of small businesses growing. And it's like, well, two years later, it really doesn't seem like that. It really doesn't seem like anything is tangibly like it's, you know, there aren't dispensaries popping up everywhere. There isn't any.

Zoning Roadblocks And Catch‑22s

SPEAKER_01 30:57

And a lot of them are closing. And people have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into this industry as small business owners trying to get started up. And the state of Minnesota, local and city governments, have been in their way at every turn. Yeah. And in that process, these people are losing tons of money trying to play by the rules. Here's, and and I'm I'm glad you brought that up because I wanted to talk about this. Um, and I want to talk about the rollout, and I want to talk about what the state of Minnesota did. Because, you know, these politicians, they have all these grandiose ideas. We're gonna help the people. We're gonna have social equity, right? We're gonna help the people that are damaged the most by our cannabis regulations over the years. So they did, they set up this program and it sounded so great. And and, you know, it's it's just awesome, right? They help all these people that have been convicted, or people like myself, who are a fully disabled vet. You know, I'm a social equity applicant. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Just to be clear, this was like their first initial rollout when they announced that they were this was like the first thing they put in place was this lottery system, crap.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Yeah, yeah. So the lottery system, the idea behind it, at least this is what the politicians told us. Um, because as we have this conversation, we're gonna find out that it's didn't actually come to fruition, right? Um, but uh yeah, they they said that they were going to help the the little guy, right? They're gonna help social equity applicants, the disabled vets, the people that have been punished the most by cannabis laws, people like my brother, right? That are trying to do good things for a community. So they put it out, and um, when they first put out the applications, they actually never um gave us any rules or regulations. They said, here's what you need to do. You need to do all these write-ups, complex business plans, which are incredibly difficult to do. What was interesting about the industry at that time, too, was all these law, lawyers, legal offices, and other people were predatorily going and approaching these social equity applicants to write these applications for them. And sometimes they would charge$20 or$30,000 just to write it up so they could. So you're telling me that the poorest people, the people that are hurt the most, are being, you know, they they're not getting any clear direction on what they need to do, how to fill out the application, how this process is gonna work. They communicate it terribly to all of us. And I think I speak for a lot of social equity applicants in the state, they're they're angry about it because of what happened. So they roll it out, um, they take all of our applications, they say, well, we're gonna do a lottery.

Costly Compliance And Barriers To Entry

SPEAKER_00 33:22

And they don't pick, they don't pick all of them. They don't pick just for a chance. This is just for a chance to get it, correct?

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah, and the the idea behind it was instead of letting big business come in here and just take the market over because they have the millions and millions of dollars they're bringing from California, Colorado, Washington, and other legalized states, um, we're gonna let we want local growers, we want small business, we want people who have been hurt the most, we want disabled vets, we want other folks like that to be a part of this industry. And so that's the idea is to give us first crack at it, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Which it sounds great.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Sounds great, it sounds fantastic. So you have all these people, um, and I know a lot of them actually, you have all these people going into the market and they are working their butts off to get this stuff put together and get put in the lottery. And we all have these aspirations and we're all excited, right? And the state of Minnesota gets to the time where, and and and first off, with the lottery, just to understand this, so they would only give out a certain amount of licenses per the section of the industry that you're gonna be in.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

So this is specifically if you fall under any of these categories, right? You can enter the lottery for a chance at a license to grow.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Correct. Okay, and that's what it is, a license to grow. And so basically they were saying, hey, you know, we're gonna approve 10 manufacturers. Commercially, we're gonna grow commercially. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, so we can put it on store shelves and dispensaries or you know, open micro businesses, mesobusinesses, right, which are kind of um designed for the little guy. Um, that's the license I hold. Or, well, I we'll get into that. I actually don't hold that license because anyway, um, I I do have a preliminary license, but we'll talk a little bit more about that. So um, so, anyways, we get to this lottery, okay, and the state is about to roll it out, they're about to draw the lottery, and then they stop it and they say no. What happened? Big business tried to manipulate the system, they didn't get included in the lottery. They sued the state of Minnesota, the state of Minnesota folded like a long chair and a hurricane.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Under the guise of discrimination?

Profitability Gap: Cannabis vs Other Businesses

SPEAKER_01 35:30

No. Or what? I they well, they they um categorized it under the guise of not being included in the social equity application. They were they were claiming, and there's all sorts of nefarious things that were going on, right? Because you would have these big business owners come in by the licenses for um manufacturing or for cultivation or whatever it is from social equity applicants, and then they were putting in multiple, multiple applications and they were flooding the zone essentially because these big businesses figured, well, we're gonna get included if we flood the zone. And kind of it's a manipulation of the system. I mean, it's illegal, but you know, it's okay to do illegal things when it it fits the government's narrative. I I don't know, I don't really understand why they allow these things. But so the state of Minnesota gets sued, and again they they fold and they stop the lottery. Well, then all the social equity applicants are like, well, hold on a second, we dumped all this money into preparing to get into the market, you guys took it from us. And then they just quietly put us into the regular pool with no refunds. Oh, they didn't have to be a good one. Well, I shouldn't say they didn't refund anyone in fairness. They allowed people the refund if they wanted to pull back from the market. So they did allow for uh a refund.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Well, you would have to yank everything, you would have to pull yourself off the list.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah, you would basically not be in the market anymore. And some people did that. So they did offer a refund in fairness. Um, but they uh and then they, you know, the the application fee that you pay, you essentially can get put into the regular pool, in essence. But that just took away any advantage that people had. You you allowed big business to come in and railroad it because you have no spine, because you don't really care about the people. And at the end of the day, what is it about? It's about money, it's about taxes. They were willing to pay more. Yep. Big business can provide you money and taxes.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

The little guy up front and let you get a cut of it on the back end. 100%. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

And I'm sure I mean one could speculate that along with big business coming in, I'm sure they had some lobbyists or oh, I'm sure. You know, there's that level of everything too, I assume. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

They're paying for lawyers. Have you looked at the rates of lawyers and how much money it costs?

SPEAKER_00 37:38

It's gotta be astronomical.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

No, it's crazy, right? I mean, some of these lawyers in the cannabis industry, you know, three, four, five, six, seven hundred, I mean, dollars an hour, right? But I mean, that's everywhere. Lawyers are incredibly expensive. But yeah, if you've got money, it turns out that you do have an advantage. Um, so social equity advantage versus the money advantage. I mean, there's no comparison. The money is always gonna win out.

Sovereign Nations, Corporations, And Market Access

SPEAKER_00 37:58

So But it's so ironic that leading with that, that that was the first thing they did with that promise just to turn around and basically like just dissolve that.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah, they pulled the rug out from everyone. They pulled the rug out from everyone and acted like it was okay. Oh, there's nothing wrong with that. Right. Are you guys kidding me? That's what you that's how you operate? No backbone, no spine. Okay, got it. So then you start looking at the um moving on from that piece of it, you start looking at the regulations and what it takes to actually get into the market. Um it's it's ridiculous, the amount of money. First off, the first thing you need to find is a property. Where can you operate, right? So the state did set some laws that required small towns and counties and things to have a certain number of cannabis businesses or allow a certain number of cannabis businesses based on the population. And I apologize, I don't remember that exact ratio. So they did set some stuff up to try to help us out, right? Um, but a lot of these local governments, state uh, or I'm sorry, city, county governments, they were a massive barricade because they pigeonhole us into specific areas. Most of them just only allow you to operate in industrial areas. Yep. Um, so then you have to buy a commercial property or rent a commercial property in an industrial area.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

We're right there, you're pricing out your average small business.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Right. You're pricing it out.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

You're not scaled to the point of being able to afford an industrial building, anyways. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Exactly. And even if you can find one that's affordable, you call the government up and they tell you no. I couldn't tell you how many zoning offices I've called from city and county zoning offices, and how many have told me no? It's insane how many calls I made just to be told no. Why? You know, there's always a reason why. They would give you a reason why, but it's just it's every rule in the book that you can think of that they could pull to prevent you from operating. It's like, oh my gosh, it was so frustrating.

Constitutional Right To Peddle Farm Products

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Now, what would be the incentive behind the local and smaller um, you know, counties and townships and zoning? What would be the incentive for them to tell you no? Because I feel like they would they would get a piece, right? I think they do being a thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

I guess that's something you'd have to talk to the cities and counties, why they feel like it needs to be zoned in an industrial zone, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Well, I think part of it goes back to an optics thing as well. Sure. I think a lot of these people that are in charge are under the notion that it's an evil thing. Yeah, and that we don't want it in our community. I think that's gotta that's not zero percent of it, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

You know, right. Well, and an interesting thing actually I had with the licensing issue that I was working through, um, and I don't want to name the city, I don't really want to put people on blast at that level, but there was a city that I was working with, and um we were working on getting a license. Now I have a preliminary license, um, but I just there's a bunch of steps. So let me back up. I I probably should explain this a little bit better. So um when you apply for a license um and you meet all the requirements, the write-ups, the business plan, um, all the things that you're gonna do to operate, the state will give you a preliminary license. From the day you get the preliminary license, and I got mine on May 31st uh of 2025. You have 18 months to open a open a business. Or you lose your preliminary license. As far as I know, you lose it. Um you may be able to.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

You probably reapply or maybe whatever.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

I honestly haven't looked into that piece of it. Yeah, um, because it's like I'm trying to get into the market in 18 months versus like, you know, looking into what happens if you don't know. I don't really want to look into that piece of it. So, anyway, so this city that I was working with are trying to figure um this whole thing out. And essentially, uh one of the things that are required under the preliminary license is you have to have approval from the zoning office, from the local city, municipality, or county to operate a cannabis business. This particular city told me that you need to have for us to give you a authorization to operate, you have to have a final approved license by OCM. So OCM, so here, think about it.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

So it's a catch 22, then, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:03

It's a catch 22. So what they're doing is they're saying you have to have a final license for us to give you authorization. For instance, this is the city.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

But in order to get the preliminary, you have to get permission from the local.

Lawsuits Over Licensing vs Constitution

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Correct. So, so it's totally opposing. They're opposing, so it's like who's going to buckle on this, right? And I would suspect that the local city would need to buckle, but they stood firm, they didn't care. Come fight us legally, pay for those lawyers. Once again, money, money talks. That's what matters, right? Um, and you'll see this as a reoccurring thing. It's money, it's always about money. Um, not only that, but look at the regulations. Look at some of the things that they require you to do. And I challenge anybody to go in and look at these regulations. They're absolutely insane. Okay. The state requires you to purchase database software where you can track plants from seed to sale. You have to track every single thing that you do ever with that plant or that product. Every single person who touches it, every person's license, their numbers need to be written on these labels. Um, in fact, the standards for labeling are well beyond the standards that they require in uh prescription medication industries and in wine labels and other alcohol labels, it's well beyond that. So you're telling me these pharmaceutical companies can sell you things like oxycotton, which are essentially heroin, and they don't have to provide this sort of detailed information. They can sell you heroin, but but me growing a plant, I have to provide all these licenses, all these numbers, all these requirements. And the reality of it is when you're talking about databases and tracking systems, and you're talking about key card access systems, and you're talking about video surveillance, and you start talking about all the regulations when you sit and look at the rules. You know what I hear when I'm reading the rules? Cha-ching, ch-ching, ch-ching. How much I don't, I guess I'm not a millionaire. I don't know. I mean, if it takes a million, two million dollars to get into the industry, does that help the social equity applicants? Or does that help big business block out social equity?

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

So what are we going for?

SPEAKER_03 44:15

Yeah, because they don't care. If they have deep enough pockets, they're like, well, I don't care what it costs, we're just gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Right. So just the regulations in and of itself are a deterrence because the it's so cost prohibitive. It creates a barrier to entry that is totally unfair at every level. And I'm not saying that, you know, oh, you gotta, you know, you gotta uh allow us to cheat the system or change these rules or whatever the case might be, but it's like, my God, think about this stuff a little bit. Yeah. What what kind of business can function? And, you know, an interesting thing that about this industry, in the cannabis industry, the success rate or the rate at which businesses become profitable, it's 17% of cannabis industries become profitable. That's because of the regulations and the heavy-handed way that government handles this in comparison to things like alcohol that you could easily argue are more dangerous. Now, I'm gonna ask you, how what do you think the percentage is for a normal business? What percentage of normal businesses become profitable? Just bit large.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

65%.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Wow, higher than I thought, honestly.

The 70% THC Cap And Safety

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Well, yeah, yeah, that's pretty high. But but 65% of just take a scope of every business out there in the ether, 65% compared to 17% with cannabis. And you're not aware that there's a problem here? You're not aware that you're blocking out these social equity applicants. You're not aware that big business is running the entire show right now, the thing that you claim that you didn't want to have happen, but you set it up in a way that that's exactly what happened. And again, actions speak louder than words. Um, right now in the industry, actually, the Native Americans, because of the sovereign nation component to this, um, and big business are the ones that are in the market and they're the ones that are profiting. And that is exactly what the state set this up. They set it up to benefit those two individuals. And I and I certainly am not um, you know, because with Native Americans, I mean, of course, the whole sovereign nation thing is a lot different. I don't want to get too far down into that rabbit hole. But the reality of it is the Native Americans are not held to the same standards, they have a massive advantage within the market, and it is what it is, it's a sovereign nation thing. I get it. But you turn around and then also give a massive advantage to big business through regulation.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Yeah, if the only hurdle is money, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Right. And here's another interesting thing. I remember I actually um helped Al apply for his social equity applicant license. The state never even responded. They didn't do anything, they didn't respond, they didn't allow him to be in the market at all.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Which is kind of crazy considering he's in a lot of ways kind of the poster child for the for the whole like social equity persona itself.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Right. A hundred percent. And so it's just it's like I fit the bill. Well, and that's my point. It's like I thought it was supposed to be about social equity applicants. I can't think of many people that have been hurt more by the cannabis regulations than my brother and and laws.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

And the it's all crazy too, considering um, like from the jump, you and your brother tried to go about it.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

The you know, most transparent working with the local, you know, anywhere from local to the state, right? Like putting in these applications, but two years later, just to get turned around, turn around and get burned.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

Two and a half two and a half years.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Like one could speculate, like, I mean, you're giving them a lot of info throughout the process, being very transparent. Sure. And that that that just feels it feels gross, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Yeah, you know, like yeah, you know, and and I do certainly understand that piece of it. I just look at it from the perspective of, you know, I mean, what are we trying to do? Right. What's the point? What are we trying to do with this market? You know, that that's the conversation. It's like I it just to me, it just feels like people say a lot of things. Politicians in particular, they say they want this and that and the other thing, and that's good enough for voters apparently to vote for them.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

And how many officials getting in office with that promise of the social equity program were elected in part of that as part of their, you know, it makes you makes you wonder.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

I would imagine. I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

And how much of this goes on behind like them setting this up? How much of that goes on behind closed doors or with outside the scope of us voting for someone in support or against these things? Like how how much of that is going on, right? Right. How much control do we have as voters? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

It's not zero.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Yeah, it's definitely not zero.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Right. You know, and and so it's it's it's just frustrating to see all of these situations roll out, the regulations, things like that. And to take someone like my brother, who's you know, got a criminal history, and I understand that. It's all centered around cannabis. He has no violent past.

Live Rosin, Purity, And Perverse Incentives

SPEAKER_03 49:08

But they don't see that. They see the sheet and they see this guy's got a criminal history. How can he's a criminal? That's it's just it's the label.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

I know, but when you look at it, how can you not look at somebody's charges and go, well, he doesn't have any weapons charges, he doesn't have any assault charges, he doesn't have any murder charges or rape charges or anything that's violent. He doesn't never stole anything from anyone.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

It's like, what are we talking about? It's all nonviolent. Let's all nonviolent.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Let's show up in an armored vehicle. So right, yeah, right, exactly. So think about it. Um, you know, I I talked a little bit about what right government has to dictate to free people what we can and can't do with our own body and mind, right? Um I really am a firm believer in this. I believe that government has no right to dictate to free people what they can and can't do when it doesn't impact somebody else. Your freedom should be allowed up until the point that it impacts someone else. Right. Negatively, right? So that that's what I believe in philosophically. I don't believe in this idea that, um, well, you know, I don't agree with this morally, so we're gonna make it illegal and we're gonna put you in a cage. It's like, well, you that's not what it's about. Yeah, that's not a free society, right? So, and I want to point to something that's really interesting with the state of Minnesota and this dichotomy that they have going on. So, um, and I want to read to you guys uh the state of Minnesota Constitution, and specifically, I want to read to you uh a part of the constitution verbatim, no license required to pedal. Any person may sell or pedal the products of the farm or garden occupied and cultivated by him. That's the state of Minnesota constitution. Yeah. So explain to me, based on that language, how or why, if a person, let's take a theoretical situation, somebody can grow up to eight plants, four budding at one time, but that's the legal standard in the state. Why is that person, if you're a small farmer, required to have a license to sell cannabis when the state of Minnesota constitution reads like that? Did you I mean I can read it again? Right? So think about this no license required to pedal. Any person may sell or pedal the products of the farm or garden occupied and cultivated by him. It's a constitutional right in the state. So interesting, I did a lot of research on this, it was really cool. So in the late 90s, and I'm sorry, I'm really bad with exact dates sometimes. In the late 90s, there were some people that sued the state of Minnesota over this, over cannabis. They said, Well, wait a minute. I should be able to legally sell cannabis. Yeah, why can we not? It's a farm garden product, it's an agricultural product, right? Makes sense. Well, the state of Minnesota said, Well, no, you can't because it's illegal.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Oh, was this hemp or cannabis? Cannabis. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

It's illegal. At the time, this is the late 90s. Oh, I can understand that.

Gummies, Dosing, And Arbitrary Limits

SPEAKER_00 52:07

It's illegal, right? So then when they did like flip two years ago, two years ago. Two and a half years ago, making it legal, like one could argue. There is an argument to be made unless they came out with something that like that you know blocks it out or negates it.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Well, think about government though. Can the government think about federally speaking, the United States government, can the government infringe on your constitutional rights by making a law that directly infringes on your constitutional right? Well, they've proven yes. Well, that's a that yeah, that's a tough one, Cody. You kind of put me in a box there. Um I always think of Benjamin Franklin in this in this context because he once uh responded to a citizen when he um uh they were deciding on what type of government to to create in this country. And a woman came up to him and said, What kind of government did you create? And he said, A republic if you can keep it. Part of keeping it is understanding how government is supposed to operate, understanding what constitutional rights that we have, and understanding that the government doesn't have the right to break our constitutional rights. And I would argue, Cody, yes, they have broken our constitutional rights, because the lawyers, who are much smarter than us, right, they know better. They know what's best for us, right? They know. So they're the ones that set the laws, the judges, the lawyers, they set the rules, they determine these things. Um, to me, it's simple though. I look at something like this, and I don't understand how the state of Minnesota can have a constitutional right that allows you to grow farming product farming products, whether it's corn, grapes, or whether it's cannabis, and you need a license to sell it. That's not right. Change your constitution then. Just come out and tell us you want to take away our freedom and you want to oppress us and put upon us tyranny then. Don't go behind our back with lawyers and people that know better and take it away that way. Do you do you want your freedoms taken away in an underhanded way, or do you want them to just come out and say we're gonna take away your freedom? Yeah, if it's gonna happen either way, I'd like to know about it. I would too.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

That would be more comforting if at least they were transparent.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

At least if they were transparent with it. Very true. Right? And so that's the thing that's frustrating. And so, not surprisingly, the state of Minnesota is embroiled in a lawsuit under this very specific thing right now. There are farmers that are suing the state of Minnesota over this. How is it that any judge in your right mind can look at something plain language that's a constitutional right and rule with the state that they have the authority to make you get a license based on this constitutional law? Explain it to me like I'm a kindergartener. You can't.

Control, Money, And Public Trust

SPEAKER_00 54:53

It's immoral, it's unethical, it's anti-freedom. Just the license, but also just the vast amount of red tape that comes with you know getting a business established within that industry. It's just it's it's incredibly insane.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

It is absolutely insane. And you know what? I look at something like this, which is a freedom topic. This is freedom. This is our freedom that the government just takes away willy-nilly whenever they feel like, because the lawyers know better and they're smarter than us. I mean, allegedly, at least that's what I keep getting told.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

Unless you can cough up enough to get one of those lawyers to navigate exactly through the web. Right. Just if you have feedback.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Yeah, if you have millions and billions of dollars, I mean, we see that you can raise children and actually not uh be held accountable. So you can do the most egregious things if you have money, obviously with Jeffrey Epstein. I I look at something like this though, and I think to myself, I go, you know, is this what people want? They want government at this level? This is what you want? It's not a Democrat or Republic topic or conversation. Plain language, right here. And you know what else I see here? Cha-ching, cha-ching, ch-ching. It's not about safety. It's not about helping a community, it's not about doing the right thing. It's about licensing and regulation so they can control you at every single aspect and they can get their money. And do what with it? I don't know. You tell me what they're doing in this state with money. We're I think we're still trying to figure it out. We could definitely do a part two. We have no idea. Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:25

We have no idea what they're doing with the money, is what we're finding out now. We make a national headline, it's disappearing in thin air.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Whole nother, whole nother rabbit hole right there, but 100%.

Zooming Out: Freedom Over Party

SPEAKER_01 56:35

And so here I I am I'm kind of getting to the end of my rant, and you know, you guys know me a little bit here. You know I'll go off on these tangents and start really getting passionate about these things. But I do believe in freedom. I'm a pro-freedom person. 100%. I would never, ever be affiliated with the Democrats, the Republicans, any political party whatsoever in my life. Ever. I believe in freedom. That's it. I'm a principal person. Principles over party, period. I don't care what you have next to your name. A good idea is a good idea. What's right is what's right. We make the best decisions we can with the information that we have at the time. But let's talk about this uh uh regulation that the state of Minnesota thought was a great idea. Um, and by the way, any chemist, and I'm not a chemist, so I don't want to speak for chemists per se, but in my research, any chemist would tell you this is one of the most asinine regulations you can possibly imagine, and it actually makes products less safe. So the state of Minnesota decided to put a 70% THC cap on products. Means products cannot contain more than 70% THC.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

So what's that other 30%?

SPEAKER_03 57:39

Yeah, 70% of the makeup of the product, or what is that exactly? Right, the concentration of it or what correct 70% THC, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:48

So it's the con the amount of THC that you put into a product. That makes no sense.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Do they have any follow-up that says, hey, it cannot contain this, this, this, this? Or is it just like leave it at that?

SPEAKER_01 57:59

Because it's like if I feel like they do have regulations because it has to meet uh, you know, the same food and drug regulations, and it's not really right. I mean, so there's a lot of different, but you can't put cyanide in your product. You know, but there are things like that, of course. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

The way they're keeping it up is like it's it doesn't leave much room for or they're basically incentivizing to cut their product with something else.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

But think about how many things that they're cutting these products with that are still not enough research on to find out like this is horrible.

Closing Thoughts And Thanks

SPEAKER_01 58:30

And this is the conversation that we have to have because and this is where chemists come into play. So if you know a professional chemist, you could probably ask them this and have a whole conversation. They could articulate it much better than me, right? I'm just uh an average person, so what do I know, right? Um, but the uh 70% thing, this is a really interesting topic because there's something called live rosin, right? You guys heard of live rosin? Okay, my brother makes these carts right here. Um I could probably grab it, so I got one here. These are the carts that he makes, these live rosin carts, I guess. So I didn't really know anything about live rosin until recently when I started doing research on this, and I was fascinated by it. I didn't know anything about it. This is a natural process, it's a non-volatile extraction process. There is no um additives, there's no chemicals used in this process to make this type of concentrate. There's a special process, and I apologize for any chemists out there, you guys can go ahead and berate me because I really don't know all the nomenclature. I'm gonna try to explain it in my simple terms because I'm a very simple person, so I'm gonna try to explain it in the terms that I understand. No, this I appreciate that because I'm also very simple. Right, right. All right, that's that's uh, you know, so um I'm not a lawyer that knows everything. So um, but uh so this set so with the cold extraction live rosin process, it's all natural. It's the same type of process that uh food companies use to get uh olive oil and other vegetable oils, right? Um, and the most important thing is you're not using chemical, it's all organic, it's all a natural process. And with this specific cold extraction process, you get the most pure concentrate you could possibly imagine in the 90-some percentile, 95, 96, 97, 98%. It's ridiculously high. From my research, it takes a tremendous amount of cannabis just to get this concentrate down to this small amount. That's how pure it is. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

And it's just heat and pressure, correct? That's right. That's those are the only two, oras others like they use the chemicals to get that extraction out of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

You got it. It's only heat and pressure, it's all natural. So in this state, again, this 70% cap, if you make something that's pure, it doesn't have anything added to it. It's just the actual concentrate itself. So if it's at say 96%, it's 96% pure, right? That's 96% of that has no other additives, no other things that you have to put in to cut it. It is the safest way to consume it. In fact, these live rosin, when I was doing research on this, people that consume live rosin vape carts are people with serious health conditions related to their lungs or cardiovascular issues, right? Because it is that safe to consume. It's much safer than just the regular combustible process of smoking marijuana, like we all think of, right? When uh you think of consuming cannabis. So the state though says, well, no, no, you can't do that. You can't make this natural, safe process. Because again, we know better. We know better. We're lawyers, right? We know better than chemists. So you have to cut that down to 70%.

unknown 1:01:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

With what?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

With what? What are we putting in there?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

And this is the same same with all the other products that you can infuse with it. Yep. So this goes from the gummies. Gummies?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

All of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Yes. So what the government is saying with these regulations is we're going to make the product less safe for you to consume arbitrarily, because we think 70%. Think about it. So if I have a product that has 69% THC, that's of course much safer than a product that has 71%.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

That's like me giving you a burger and like, yeah, it's like 70% beef. You're good. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

It's like, well, how about 96%, 98%? Like, let's talk about. And so when you think about this whole conversation, and and what these lawyers that of course know better, um, these politicians, they know better. Um, I mean, they certainly know how to get our tax money, that's for sure. Um, but uh, you know, uh one thing that they think about with this is they think about, well, overdosing and people and saying again, this isn't alcohol. Right. You know, people don't die from this stuff. And think about how ridiculous that is to think about this being a public safety issue. Think about how ridiculous this is. So let's say I have a gummy, right? And you know, the state just arbitrarily puts these regulations on, and it's only five milligrams per this little square of, you know, because that's a 70% THC based on this little tiny square of cannabis that I consume. Okay, well, I just have this little square. Um, and there's sugar and other things in it, of course, with gummies, natural flavors, artificial additives that who knows what's doing to our body, which is a whole nother conversation, but that's okay. We can allow big business to put those things in instead of having something that's pure. Yep. Because we need to cut it down to 70%. Um, so instead of taking a small, so let's say you got a five milligram piece of gummy and you have a hundred milligram piece of gummy. Well, the hundred milligram piece of gummy gets the medical benefit that I need because the pain that I have or whatever issue that I'm using it for, um, or just recreationally, it doesn't matter. So, how does that prevent people from taking 100 milligrams because you just have to buy more five milligram gummies and just consume 20 gummies instead of consuming one, which is arguably worse because you're cutting it with these unknown additives and everything else. So it's ridiculous on its face. The government is saying we want you to consume 20 gummies that have, I don't know, artificial dyes and additives and things that we certainly allow because they've been, you know, authorized by the FDA, apparently. But God, if you make it two peer, boy, that's dangerous. That's 71%. We got a problem. We might have to put you in jail for it. Yeah. Is that I mean, it just falls on its face. These regulations, the way that they blocked everything. The way I I'm just so, and to be honest with you guys, I just I just get tired of the arrogance. I get tired of the arrogance of politicians that think that they know best. I get so tired of it. I'm exhausted, man. I'm not gonna lie. I'm just tired of it. And here's an example right here pages of notes of the hypocrisy, of the proving that it's not about safety, it's about control, and it's about money. That's what it's about. It's really what it comes down to. Say that's what it's about. Come out and tell us that you don't want to help us. Come out and tell us that you want to promote big business. Tell come out and tell us that you want less safe products. Stop lying to us about it. Stop acting like you know best. I am never gonna sit up here in any platform, in any conversation, and act like I know everything. I don't. I think about podcasting. I don't know anything about podcasting, Cody. Like you could tell me all sorts of things about podcasting that I have no idea. Me neither. That's great. That's great. But I'm open to that, right? I'm open to understanding this basic fundamental idea that I don't know everything, and there's other people that know a lot more, and so you listen to a people that know better. You don't act like you know everything and you just decide these regulations and you don't think through how it hurts people and how it damages families and how it takes away our tax money for fraud so we can fund fraud. Right. Because the government can't apparently figure it out. Figure out how to watch out for our money.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

I I don't know. I mean it's it's insane. You're so spot on that it just it feels obvious. It feels obvious that it's like it's so frustrating because it is obvious to the average person. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

It's like and it it's kind of ironic too, considering where you have like with the way they have it set up, and then you have like Al's like the perfect example of like, hey, this is I mean, the ideal way to go about it. Right. Was like Al's method of going pure, very wholesome connection, you know, very personal. Everything about it was just making the purest more, but it's like you would think that like you would want that. Yeah, why I put up roadblocks to that, but here like the way it way the dice roll is that oh, that's actually the criminal, like is fucking crazy. Yeah. Money. And granted too, I mean, I understand that, like I understand that, like, but laws are in place too. I mean, you would you would think a society would want that, value that versus versus what they do have. So when you just zoom out and just completely objective perspective.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:35

Right. And and that's the problem. Again, I go back to politicians. They don't talk to us in plain language, other than to get us to hate each other, because they will spew some really hateful rhetoric rhetoric that we should hate our fellow Americans. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:50

Well, not only that, it's more profitable to do it that way because then they can create these regulations under the guise of this is against the enemy. And it's really just it's against the average person.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Yeah, it is. I mean, just I mean, simple. Read 1984, George Orwell. Perpetual war. It's all about division, it's all about getting us to hate each other. So the lawyers and the politicians who, of course, know better, they know you know what we should and shouldn't do. So they can control us, they can take away our freedom, they can tax us to death. I mean, at what point in time do people just get tired of the same old song of dance? Well, you better hate that other party because boy, those are evil people. Are they really evil? Because they want to tax you and take power. But it's like at the end of the day, are they really evil or are you just telling me that they're evil?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:41

Everyone has a different perspective. Right. I want to just it's just the lack of understanding someone else's perspective. Right. And it's easier to mark them as an enemy than to try to understand their position.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

Right. And it's just it's really what it is. Yeah, it is. And it just kills me, man. It's I I and I I can go on tangents about these conversations. I love history. I study history extensively. Actually, Bodie and I were talking a little history about it. A little World War I history uh before we jumped on the pod here.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:09

Um, no, I I completely agree with you. I think everything you said hits the mark right on the bullseye, and I don't think that any average person couldn't agree right with what you've explained. And it just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, obviously there's rules in place specifically that do help. It's not all bad, but there's a lot of them in place that do hurt. Right. And that is really the core of the argument here.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:38

So I mean, yeah. I mean, we could go on all day. Yeah, all right. Really, I could, yeah. I mean, with that being said, I think that's a great way to summarize what's going on and and the a different perspective offered up on what people just see as a very public raid in a small community. Right. And I think that this hopefully enlightens people on more of the situation and the dynamic of how it's working and the lack of a clear path for someone to legitimately do it. And I think that this is a very eye-opening experience for me, but it just sucks that a good person is on the wrong side of the policy. Yeah. And I think that's the situation that we're in now. Yeah. So I mean, with that being said, is there anything that you want to close this out with? Is there anything else that you want to touch on that we haven't yet?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

Um, you know, no, I I really don't. I think I got everything out um, you know, and provided some of this perspective that people may not be aware of and some of the underhanded tactics that the state's using to make sure that they're collecting their tax dollars and these sorts of things. But I mean, I'm sure nobody in the audience is gonna be surprised that this occurs, right? I mean, this is kind of uh, you know, standard procedure with government. Um, um, I've spent much of my life around government, so I totally understand how it works and what the processes are and everything else. Um I and so to that end, I don't have anything else to add, but I I really just want to say, uh, Bodie, Cody, I I sincerely from the bottom of my heart, I really appreciate you guys coming on. Or I'm sorry. I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having us, guys. Thanks for having us, right? Well, I I could have said it like that because you know I did kind of commandeer the entire show. That's the whole point. Yeah, you guys. Yeah, you did it. You you got to listen to me ramble the whole time. But I just no, and I'm sincere with this too, because I really appreciate you giving me this platform to allow me to articulate these thoughts and these things because I think the average people out there would agree with a lot of what I'm saying. Um, you know, and I and I'm not saying I have the answer to every little solution, you know, every little thing that we talked about today, but I can see injustice, I can see anti-freedom, totally, and I can see tax exploitation, you know, I can see these things as plain as day. Yeah. Um, so I think it's important for the people in the state and any responsible citizen to understand these things. And so from the bottom of my heart, I just absolutely appreciate you guys allowing me to have this platform to articulate these things so that there's a more awareness towards these things that are occurring within our society. Our pleasure. Yeah, and anytime you want me to come back on, I certainly would. Um, I again love to talk about all sorts of issues that are in this type of vein, anyways. So absolutely um, but yeah, I just appreciate it. Thank you guys. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

And likewise, man, I think it's I think it's really important to as like coming from you from a guy who's worked with the government most of his life and understands how to navigate like the the red tape jargon. Yes, and all just extract that information and uh and uh throw it back out into the ether in a very comprehensible, easy to understand way. I think it's really important to offer that perspective of hey, like, you know, when you see the headlines of this raid, it's like well, like here actually is the deep dive. Right. And uh yeah, just here's the why. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's really important to offer that perspective to everyone to really get a full sense of what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:03

Completely agree. Well, with that being said, guys, I think this is a good point to wrap this up. Um, I think more of the story, free free Al.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:13

Free L. Free L. Free Decal. Yeah, absolutely. All right. All right, we'll see you later.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:18

Yeah.