{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.28,"body":"hey nerds hey, and"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.28,"body":"happy new year if you’re into"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":2.28,"endTime":5.22,"body":"that whole gregorian calendar"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":2.28,"endTime":5.22,"body":"jawn. This is a quick note to"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":5.22,"endTime":7.89,"body":"say that we recorded this"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":5.22,"endTime":7.89,"body":"episode about Islamic modesty"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":7.89,"endTime":12.48,"body":"and pious fashion over the"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":7.89,"endTime":12.48,"body":"summer, before Mahsa Amini died"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":12.48,"endTime":16.02,"body":"in the custody of Iran’s"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":12.48,"endTime":16.02,"body":"so-called “modesty police” and"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":16.02,"endTime":20.13,"body":"inspired widespread protests"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":16.02,"endTime":20.13,"body":"within and beyond Iran. Her"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":20.13,"endTime":25.2,"body":"death is tragic, unjust, and"},{"speaker":"Megan: INTRO","startTime":20.13,"endTime":25.2,"body":"unforgivable. Here’s what we’re"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":25.2,"endTime":29.1,"body":"trim"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":25.2,"endTime":29.1,"body":"our split ends for social media"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":29.1,"endTime":34.2,"body":"videos (I see you, Juliette"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":29.1,"endTime":34.2,"body":"Binoche, and immediately no)."},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":35.16,"endTime":37.71,"body":"We’re not going to talk over"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":35.16,"endTime":37.71,"body":"Iranians, especially Iranian"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":37.71,"endTime":39.87,"body":"women, when they tell us why"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":37.71,"endTime":39.87,"body":"they’re protesting and how they"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":39.87,"endTime":43.53,"body":"want things to change. We’re not"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":39.87,"endTime":43.53,"body":"going to collapse gender justice"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":43.56,"endTime":48.75,"body":"into facile white feminism or"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":43.56,"endTime":48.75,"body":"American imperialism. We–and by"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":48.75,"endTime":51.27,"body":"we I mean specifically white"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":48.75,"endTime":51.27,"body":"American folks but this is good"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":51.27,"endTime":54.48,"body":"praxis for all of us–are going"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":51.27,"endTime":54.48,"body":"to shut the fuck up and learn"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":54.48,"endTime":57.15,"body":"from the folks on the front"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":54.48,"endTime":57.15,"body":"lines of the fight, many of whom"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":57.15,"endTime":59.19,"body":"have been at this for longer"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":57.15,"endTime":59.19,"body":"than I personally have been"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":59.19,"endTime":63.48,"body":"alive.   We of course have more"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":59.19,"endTime":63.48,"body":"resources in the shownotes, but"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":63.48,"endTime":65.88,"body":"we want to use this time up top"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":63.48,"endTime":65.88,"body":"to encourage you to check out"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":65.88,"endTime":73.29,"body":"the work of journalist Hoda"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":65.88,"endTime":73.29,"body":"Katebi [@hodakatebi on twitter],"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":75.0,"endTime":76.56,"body":"the Collective for Black"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":75.0,"endTime":76.56,"body":"Iranians"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":76.95,"endTime":81.99,"body":"[@collectiveforblackIRanians on"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":76.95,"endTime":81.99,"body":"insta], and  a five-part series"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":81.99,"endTime":84.12,"body":"on the history of modern Iran"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":81.99,"endTime":84.12,"body":"that Profs. Eskandar"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":84.15,"endTime":88.5,"body":"Sadeghi-Boroujerdi and Golnar"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":84.15,"endTime":88.5,"body":"Nikpour did for the Dig podcast."},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":88.95,"endTime":91.56,"body":"As always, thanks for listening,"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":88.95,"endTime":91.56,"body":"nerds. Here’s the actual"},{"speaker":"not going to do about it","startTime":91.56,"endTime":92.01,"body":"episode."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":111.33,"endTime":113.58,"body":"This is keeping it one on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":111.33,"endTime":113.58,"body":"one a killjoys introduction to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":113.58,"endTime":117.48,"body":"religion podcast in 2022 2023."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":113.58,"endTime":117.48,"body":"Our work is made possible"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":117.48,"endTime":121.29,"body":"through both a UVM reach grant"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":117.48,"endTime":121.29,"body":"and a loose AAR advancing public"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":121.29,"endTime":123.63,"body":"scholarship grant. We're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":121.29,"endTime":123.63,"body":"grateful to live teach and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":123.63,"endTime":126.09,"body":"record on the current ancestral"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":123.63,"endTime":126.09,"body":"and unseeded lands of the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":126.09,"endTime":129.57,"body":"Abenaki Wabanaki and ACO Cisco"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":126.09,"endTime":129.57,"body":"peoples. As always, you can find"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":129.57,"endTime":131.82,"body":"material ways to support"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":129.57,"endTime":131.82,"body":"indigenous communities on our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":131.82,"endTime":132.36,"body":"website."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":133.079,"endTime":135.779,"body":"What's up nerds? Hello,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":133.079,"endTime":135.779,"body":"I'm Meghan Goodwin and scholar"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":135.779,"endTime":138.449,"body":"of American religions race and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":135.779,"endTime":138.449,"body":"gender and politics."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":138.66,"endTime":140.97,"body":"Hi, hello. I'm Elise"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":138.66,"endTime":140.97,"body":"morgenstein. First a historian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":140.97,"endTime":143.73,"body":"of religion Islam recently"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":140.97,"endTime":143.73,"body":"civilization and South Asia."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":145.14,"endTime":146.34,"body":"Alright Goodwin, how's it going?"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":146.79,"endTime":148.17,"body":"Warm and so warm,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":148.41,"endTime":153.87,"body":"so warm. It's a soupy"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":148.41,"endTime":153.87,"body":"mess up here in the Northeast."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":154.23,"endTime":158.73,"body":"Don't care for it. So"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":154.23,"endTime":158.73,"body":"what better conversation to have"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":158.73,"endTime":161.25,"body":"today than a conversation about"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":158.73,"endTime":161.25,"body":"covering up?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":161.579,"endTime":165.989,"body":"Yeah, cuz Today's episode"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":161.579,"endTime":165.989,"body":"is an incorrect incorrect, where"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":165.989,"endTime":169.379,"body":"we kindly but firmly insist that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":165.989,"endTime":169.379,"body":"religion does more in different"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":169.379,"endTime":173.669,"body":"work than you might think it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":169.379,"endTime":173.669,"body":"does. Because on today, we want"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":173.669,"endTime":175.889,"body":"to challenge some basic"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":173.669,"endTime":175.889,"body":"assumptions about modest"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":175.889,"endTime":180.269,"body":"clothing and covering up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":175.889,"endTime":180.269,"body":"specifically the idea that hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":180.689,"endTime":181.619,"body":"is oppressive."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":183.66,"endTime":187.41,"body":"This conversation Okay,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":183.66,"endTime":187.41,"body":"fine, but like before we didn't"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":187.41,"endTime":190.2,"body":"we do this before, like, didn't"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":187.41,"endTime":190.2,"body":"we? We did. We did a whole"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":190.38,"endTime":194.01,"body":"season to gender and sexuality"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":190.38,"endTime":194.01,"body":"and what's not the United States"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":194.01,"endTime":199.02,"body":"for like a whole train stop and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":194.01,"endTime":199.02,"body":"our whole whistlestop tour of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":199.05,"endTime":201.51,"body":"gender and sexuality around the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":199.05,"endTime":201.51,"body":"world like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":201.51,"endTime":205.02,"body":"we did this. We did. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":201.51,"endTime":205.02,"body":"yet,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":205.44,"endTime":207.57,"body":"yeah, people are still"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":205.44,"endTime":207.57,"body":"incorrect about her job. And"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":207.57,"endTime":211.59,"body":"people keep asking you about her"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":207.57,"endTime":211.59,"body":"job. And you're mad. So, okay,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":211.62,"endTime":213.45,"body":"all right. You're right. You're"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":211.62,"endTime":213.45,"body":"right. Of course, you're right."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":214.019,"endTime":217.709,"body":"I don't know. Like, I'll"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":214.019,"endTime":217.709,"body":"never not be mad about it for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":217.709,"endTime":222.959,"body":"regions, mostly because there"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":217.709,"endTime":222.959,"body":"are these big things that people"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":222.959,"endTime":225.179,"body":"are incorrect about."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":225.36,"endTime":226.92,"body":"What kind of things? What"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":225.36,"endTime":226.92,"body":"kind of things are people"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":226.92,"endTime":231.18,"body":"incorrect about when we think"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":226.92,"endTime":231.18,"body":"specifically about covering your"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":231.18,"endTime":235.05,"body":"head to express a specific kind"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":231.18,"endTime":235.05,"body":"of relationship with God?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":235.83,"endTime":237.51,"body":"I mean, firstly, think"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":235.83,"endTime":237.51,"body":"it's oppressive, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":237.51,"endTime":240.51,"body":"that's just number one. Number"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":237.51,"endTime":240.51,"body":"one, it's oppressive. And we're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":240.51,"endTime":243.99,"body":"here to tell you please for the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":240.51,"endTime":243.99,"body":"love of God, stop saying such"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":243.99,"endTime":251.52,"body":"stupid stuff. Songs. Just I beg"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":243.99,"endTime":251.52,"body":"of you. Just like our Jihad"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":251.52,"endTime":255.18,"body":"episode, there is not a month"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":251.52,"endTime":255.18,"body":"that goes by that some well"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":255.18,"endTime":259.86,"body":"meaning journalist, member of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":255.18,"endTime":259.86,"body":"the public or student doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":259.89,"endTime":265.02,"body":"email me to be like, isn't this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":259.89,"endTime":265.02,"body":"horribly incorrect thing? Super"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":265.02,"endTime":270.6,"body":"true. And I just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":265.02,"endTime":270.6,"body":"selfishly I want my time to be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":270.6,"endTime":273.39,"body":"imagined is more precious than"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":270.6,"endTime":273.39,"body":"that. Yeah, that's fair. That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":273.39,"endTime":278.16,"body":"fair. But number two, I think"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":273.39,"endTime":278.16,"body":"also, folks want to use Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":278.16,"endTime":280.26,"body":"pious fashion, a term that we're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":278.16,"endTime":280.26,"body":"going to be borrowing throughout"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":280.26,"endTime":283.65,"body":"this episode from Liz Abukar as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":280.26,"endTime":283.65,"body":"low hanging fruit. So hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":283.65,"endTime":287.76,"body":"ease, are on your college"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":283.65,"endTime":287.76,"body":"brochure to signal diversity."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":287.94,"endTime":291.42,"body":"That's women who wear hijab,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":287.94,"endTime":291.42,"body":"they're taught about in any"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":291.42,"endTime":294.96,"body":"number of political science"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":291.42,"endTime":294.96,"body":"classes, usually derisively and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":294.96,"endTime":299.55,"body":"by folks with no experience. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":294.96,"endTime":299.55,"body":"said what I said, as examples of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":299.55,"endTime":302.22,"body":"political difference or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":299.55,"endTime":302.22,"body":"political signification or case"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":302.22,"endTime":305.64,"body":"law around uniforms the military"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":302.22,"endTime":305.64,"body":"or sports so it's like a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":305.64,"endTime":309.09,"body":"teaching tool. Hijab is a low"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":305.64,"endTime":309.09,"body":"hanging fruit for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":309.09,"endTime":313.17,"body":"people but literally no one in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":309.09,"endTime":313.17,"body":"largely white usually sis het"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":313.32,"endTime":318.72,"body":"discursive spaces take seriously"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":313.32,"endTime":318.72,"body":"the why of his job. It's assumed"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":318.78,"endTime":322.2,"body":"in these places where we use it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":318.78,"endTime":322.2,"body":"as a symbol but not as a person"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":322.26,"endTime":326.49,"body":"as an idea as a community as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":322.26,"endTime":326.49,"body":"like forced or coerced and when"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":326.49,"endTime":330.81,"body":"it isn't, there's this like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":326.49,"endTime":330.81,"body":"noble piety through line about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":330.81,"endTime":335.58,"body":"goodness morality and submissive"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":330.81,"endTime":335.58,"body":"women happening. So Megan, of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":335.58,"endTime":337.95,"body":"course, I'm Big Mad that hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":335.58,"endTime":337.95,"body":"and hijab ease are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":337.95,"endTime":342.03,"body":"simultaneously hyper visible,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":337.95,"endTime":342.03,"body":"hyper signified and then often"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":342.54,"endTime":344.94,"body":"left out silenced, erased"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":342.54,"endTime":344.94,"body":"entirely."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":345.3,"endTime":348.0,"body":"Right? So they get to be"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":345.3,"endTime":348.0,"body":"signpost or again and I, we"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":348.0,"endTime":349.95,"body":"talked about this in an earlier"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":348.0,"endTime":349.95,"body":"episode, but that New York"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":349.95,"endTime":353.52,"body":"Times, Maryam duranie talked"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":349.95,"endTime":353.52,"body":"about it as a birdwatching guide"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":353.55,"endTime":358.35,"body":"to Muslim women who cover their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":353.55,"endTime":358.35,"body":"objects for study, not humans"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":358.35,"endTime":360.03,"body":"making choices about what to put"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":358.35,"endTime":360.03,"body":"on their bodies."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":360.45,"endTime":362.94,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":360.45,"endTime":362.94,"body":"That's probably true. The thing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":362.94,"endTime":366.3,"body":"that bothers me and it might"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":362.94,"endTime":366.3,"body":"bother you also, given what I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":366.3,"endTime":370.35,"body":"know you've written about, is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":366.3,"endTime":370.35,"body":"that pious fashion, women who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":370.35,"endTime":373.86,"body":"choose clothing in a way that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":370.35,"endTime":373.86,"body":"cultivates or signifies their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":373.86,"endTime":377.79,"body":"own piety. So we're talking"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":373.86,"endTime":377.79,"body":"about Muslims here, because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":377.82,"endTime":380.43,"body":"Hello, I'm a scholar of Islam,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":377.82,"endTime":380.43,"body":"and y'all can't stop emailing me"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":380.43,"endTime":384.42,"body":"about hijab. But I know Meghan,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":380.43,"endTime":384.42,"body":"that you've talked about se LDS"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":384.42,"endTime":389.37,"body":"or flts fashion, that like for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":384.42,"endTime":389.37,"body":"God's sakes, tan France of queer"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":389.37,"endTime":396.33,"body":"I queer, I fame, has made an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":389.37,"endTime":396.33,"body":"empire on modesty. Yeah. But if"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":396.33,"endTime":400.62,"body":"you add piety to modesty, then"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":396.33,"endTime":400.62,"body":"we get reductive use usually of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":400.62,"endTime":405.93,"body":"women or femmes and assumptions"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":400.62,"endTime":405.93,"body":"about their men in big quotes,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":406.2,"endTime":410.46,"body":"being aggressive in their women,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":406.2,"endTime":410.46,"body":"equally big groats, being"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":410.49,"endTime":412.95,"body":"submissive, brainwashed or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":410.49,"endTime":412.95,"body":"trapped? And you know what?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":413.37,"endTime":415.86,"body":"That's incorrect. On top of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":413.37,"endTime":415.86,"body":"being stupid."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":415.98,"endTime":418.86,"body":"It's stupid in the face."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":415.98,"endTime":418.86,"body":"It's also I mean, it's incorrect"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":418.86,"endTime":421.17,"body":"on so many different levels. But"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":418.86,"endTime":421.17,"body":"it also assumes that pious"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":421.17,"endTime":425.31,"body":"fashion is the thing that only"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":421.17,"endTime":425.31,"body":"women do. Yes, exactly. Men also"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":425.61,"endTime":429.69,"body":"dress modestly. It is a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":425.61,"endTime":429.69,"body":"requirement for lots of men who"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":429.69,"endTime":432.03,"body":"are religious in lots of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":429.69,"endTime":432.03,"body":"different religions to dress"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":432.03,"endTime":435.21,"body":"modestly. So, yeah, there's a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":432.03,"endTime":435.21,"body":"lot of levels of incorrectness"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":435.21,"endTime":436.92,"body":"happening here. Also, like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":436.95,"endTime":440.37,"body":"the way that we construct"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":436.95,"endTime":440.37,"body":"modesty almost always assumes a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":440.37,"endTime":445.2,"body":"feminized body. So even though"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":440.37,"endTime":445.2,"body":"my partner wears long sleeves"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":445.2,"endTime":448.68,"body":"and long pants year round to his"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":445.2,"endTime":448.68,"body":"office, that's just men's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":448.68,"endTime":454.02,"body":"clothing. That's not modest"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":448.68,"endTime":454.02,"body":"clothing. That's just men's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":454.02,"endTime":458.16,"body":"clothing. But if I take off a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":454.02,"endTime":458.16,"body":"sleeve, at any time of year,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":458.34,"endTime":463.11,"body":"that's a body choice. Yeah. As"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":458.34,"endTime":463.11,"body":"opposed to just clothes and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":463.11,"endTime":467.1,"body":"putting on the BoD. Yep, yep."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":463.11,"endTime":467.1,"body":"Yeah, so all of this is gendered"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":467.13,"endTime":470.67,"body":"all of it. TTB. Top to bottom,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":467.13,"endTime":470.67,"body":"gendered."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":470.94,"endTime":474.27,"body":"Yep. Yep. I am forever"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":470.94,"endTime":474.27,"body":"haunted by that Facebook video I"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":474.27,"endTime":476.79,"body":"saw where the woman just kept"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":474.27,"endTime":476.79,"body":"asking herself if her house was"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":476.79,"endTime":479.49,"body":"professional, like, not how she"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":476.79,"endTime":479.49,"body":"was dressing her ass, but like,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":479.49,"endTime":483.24,"body":"was it possible to be perceived"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":479.49,"endTime":483.24,"body":"as professional with the ass"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":483.36,"endTime":485.97,"body":"that God and her mama gave her"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":483.36,"endTime":485.97,"body":"haunted? Anyway?"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":494.61,"endTime":498.03,"body":"So specifically, today, we're"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":494.61,"endTime":498.03,"body":"going to focus on pious or"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":498.03,"endTime":502.71,"body":"modest fashion in Islam. Right."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":498.03,"endTime":502.71,"body":"So how does that relate to her"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":502.71,"endTime":506.91,"body":"job? Why, why, why? I know why."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":502.71,"endTime":506.91,"body":"But why are we still talking"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":506.91,"endTime":507.57,"body":"about this?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":507.96,"endTime":509.46,"body":"Frankly, we're still"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":507.96,"endTime":509.46,"body":"talking about this for the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":509.46,"endTime":511.95,"body":"reason that you always want us"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":509.46,"endTime":511.95,"body":"to talk about stuff, Megan. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":511.95,"endTime":515.94,"body":"it's because of law. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":511.95,"endTime":515.94,"body":"Nation states. I mean, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":515.94,"endTime":518.94,"body":"yes, it's also about my inbox."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":515.94,"endTime":518.94,"body":"Like, let's be clear, about my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":519.42,"endTime":523.02,"body":"nation states around the world"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":519.42,"endTime":523.02,"body":"are enacting laws that prevent,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":523.26,"endTime":526.02,"body":"particularly women. So the way"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":523.26,"endTime":526.02,"body":"that these laws are written are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":526.02,"endTime":530.49,"body":"particularly about women's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":526.02,"endTime":530.49,"body":"bodies from wearing niqab, a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":530.49,"endTime":533.88,"body":"full body covering, often with a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":530.49,"endTime":533.88,"body":"face cover of some kind, though,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":533.88,"endTime":538.89,"body":"there's variation, and hijab,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":533.88,"endTime":538.89,"body":"hair coverings, head coverings."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":538.92,"endTime":543.24,"body":"Again, there's lots of variation"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":538.92,"endTime":543.24,"body":"within that. In addition to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":543.24,"endTime":548.31,"body":"laws, so laws preventing women"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":543.24,"endTime":548.31,"body":"or in forcing women to wear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":548.31,"endTime":552.9,"body":"specific types of islamicate"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":548.31,"endTime":552.9,"body":"dress. We also know that women"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":552.9,"endTime":556.29,"body":"who cover are the most likely"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":552.9,"endTime":556.29,"body":"targets of violence in the US"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":556.29,"endTime":560.76,"body":"and Canada, as well as the UK,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":556.29,"endTime":560.76,"body":"France and Germany. And those"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":560.76,"endTime":565.29,"body":"are just the places that I have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":560.76,"endTime":565.29,"body":"quick data from. We can add more"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":565.29,"endTime":570.36,"body":"to that if I had done more"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":565.29,"endTime":570.36,"body":"homework for this episode. But I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":570.36,"endTime":571.83,"body":"did not. But even"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":571.83,"endTime":574.47,"body":"the homework we've"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":571.83,"endTime":574.47,"body":"already done says that women who"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":574.47,"endTime":578.07,"body":"signal their relationship to God"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":574.47,"endTime":578.07,"body":"on their bodies in ways that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":578.1,"endTime":583.83,"body":"folks who are uninformed, not"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":578.1,"endTime":583.83,"body":"correct. Understand as"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":583.86,"endTime":588.78,"body":"oppressive right, are the most"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":583.86,"endTime":588.78,"body":"likely targets of violence and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":588.78,"endTime":592.89,"body":"we know that is even more true"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":588.78,"endTime":592.89,"body":"when those women are brown or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":592.89,"endTime":596.7,"body":"black. Yeah, and you know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":592.89,"endTime":596.7,"body":"what, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":596.7,"endTime":599.91,"body":"pick it up a little bit because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":596.7,"endTime":599.91,"body":"you said uninformed, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":599.91,"endTime":604.62,"body":"know and people are uninformed,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":599.91,"endTime":604.62,"body":"will fly Ingrid see? I think"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":604.62,"endTime":608.22,"body":"folks see that these are Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":604.62,"endTime":608.22,"body":"women and harass them on purpose"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":608.22,"endTime":609.3,"body":"because of Islamophobia."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":609.36,"endTime":611.4,"body":"Yeah, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":609.36,"endTime":611.4,"body":"accurate. I was trying to be"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":611.4,"endTime":613.05,"body":"generous but no, no, you can"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":613.05,"endTime":615.84,"body":"be generous. I don't have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":613.05,"endTime":615.84,"body":"to be because I don't want to be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":615.87,"endTime":619.05,"body":"but I appreciate your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":615.87,"endTime":619.05,"body":"generosity, because you're not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":619.05,"endTime":622.02,"body":"wrong. Some people might be but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":619.05,"endTime":622.02,"body":"like, frankly, my five year old"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":622.02,"endTime":625.08,"body":"knows better. So yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":622.02,"endTime":625.08,"body":"fair NAS men ripping hijabs off"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":625.08,"endTime":627.87,"body":"women on the train. They're not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":625.08,"endTime":627.87,"body":"being ignorant, they're being"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":627.87,"endTime":628.71,"body":"racist Fox."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":628.77,"endTime":630.78,"body":"Yeah, that's accurate."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":628.77,"endTime":630.78,"body":"They're being violent. Yes."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":631.68,"endTime":634.89,"body":"Hijab is at once."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":631.68,"endTime":634.89,"body":"They're, like this deeply"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":634.89,"endTime":638.7,"body":"personal and cultural choice,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":634.89,"endTime":638.7,"body":"but it's also a public marker of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":638.7,"endTime":642.3,"body":"difference in white Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":638.7,"endTime":642.3,"body":"publics. But it's also a marker"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":642.3,"endTime":645.27,"body":"of belonging in Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":642.3,"endTime":645.27,"body":"communities or Muslim majority"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":645.45,"endTime":648.66,"body":"nation states. Yeah, but here's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":645.45,"endTime":648.66,"body":"the thing again, this is why"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":648.66,"endTime":651.93,"body":"we're talking about it. Okay."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":648.66,"endTime":651.93,"body":"It's never not a political"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":651.93,"endTime":655.35,"body":"choice on top of a personal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":651.93,"endTime":655.35,"body":"religious cultural one."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":656.16,"endTime":658.77,"body":"Oh, that sounds"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":656.16,"endTime":658.77,"body":"complicated. Can you? Can you"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":658.77,"endTime":660.99,"body":"tell me more about how it's"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":658.77,"endTime":660.99,"body":"political in addition to being"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":660.99,"endTime":664.2,"body":"religious, I thought religion"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":660.99,"endTime":664.2,"body":"was just about belief is the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":664.2,"endTime":666.72,"body":"thing I say all the time on the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":664.2,"endTime":666.72,"body":"internet. I love it when we"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":666.72,"endTime":669.51,"body":"reduce religion to believe"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":666.72,"endTime":669.51,"body":"because that's all it is really."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":670.65,"endTime":673.05,"body":"I love when I make you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":670.65,"endTime":673.05,"body":"say sarcastic things that makes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":673.05,"endTime":677.7,"body":"me so happy because you're so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":673.05,"endTime":677.7,"body":"your teeth are such on edge and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":677.7,"endTime":678.27,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":678.36,"endTime":682.86,"body":"gritting my jaw? How"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":678.36,"endTime":682.86,"body":"could How could what we put on"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":682.86,"endTime":685.11,"body":"our heads be a political choice"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":682.86,"endTime":685.11,"body":"as well as a religious one,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":685.11,"endTime":686.73,"body":"please, please teach me your"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":685.11,"endTime":686.73,"body":"waist."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":687.72,"endTime":689.37,"body":"I mean, I'm gonna go for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":687.72,"endTime":689.37,"body":"the low hanging fruit here and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":689.37,"endTime":694.62,"body":"be like we're 21 years post"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":689.37,"endTime":694.62,"body":"911 911 can drink 911 is saddled"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":694.62,"endTime":697.62,"body":"up at the bar, which means we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":694.62,"endTime":697.62,"body":"are 21 years into the explicit"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":697.62,"endTime":701.55,"body":"anti Muslim hostility, the world"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":697.62,"endTime":701.55,"body":"over that manifests in legal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":701.55,"endTime":706.08,"body":"limitations for Muslims, to say"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":701.55,"endTime":706.08,"body":"nothing of you know, war waged"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":706.08,"endTime":709.8,"body":"against Muslims on the premise"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":706.08,"endTime":709.8,"body":"of liberating them from their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":709.83,"endTime":712.35,"body":"oppressive men. And we know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":709.83,"endTime":712.35,"body":"they're oppressive. Because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":712.35,"endTime":714.93,"body":"hijab and niqab, the war against"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":714.93,"endTime":719.22,"body":"terror is the war for"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":714.93,"endTime":719.22,"body":"women's dignity. Laura Bush,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":719.97,"endTime":725.16,"body":"right? Like that's the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":719.97,"endTime":725.16,"body":"slogan. Which is to say, any"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":725.19,"endTime":728.4,"body":"Muslim woman or femme outside of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":725.19,"endTime":728.4,"body":"Muslim majority countries who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":728.4,"endTime":732.45,"body":"chooses to mark themselves as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":728.4,"endTime":732.45,"body":"Muslim knows that they are doing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":732.45,"endTime":737.37,"body":"so in a climate of, if not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":732.45,"endTime":737.37,"body":"straight up hate, of suspicion,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":737.37,"endTime":741.6,"body":"surveillance, and eyes, they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":737.37,"endTime":741.6,"body":"know that they are walking into"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":741.6,"endTime":745.62,"body":"spaces that will instantly read"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":741.6,"endTime":745.62,"body":"them as Muslim. And in many"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":745.62,"endTime":747.87,"body":"spaces, this is knowing full"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":745.62,"endTime":747.87,"body":"well that you're walking into a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":747.87,"endTime":751.38,"body":"wall of judgment that might"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":747.87,"endTime":751.38,"body":"result in violence."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":751.41,"endTime":754.41,"body":"Yeah, I mean, this is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":751.41,"endTime":754.41,"body":"also a space where just"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":754.41,"endTime":757.38,"body":"Americans are dumb about how"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":754.41,"endTime":757.38,"body":"this works to you because and we"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":757.38,"endTime":759.72,"body":"talked about this in our"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":757.38,"endTime":759.72,"body":"previous episode, but the women"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":759.72,"endTime":762.78,"body":"who are covering and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":759.72,"endTime":762.78,"body":"these spaces aren't always"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":762.78,"endTime":766.23,"body":"necessarily marking themselves"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":762.78,"endTime":766.23,"body":"as Muslim per se, and just"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":766.26,"endTime":769.92,"body":"abiding by like local dress"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":766.26,"endTime":769.92,"body":"conventions. Christian women in"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":769.92,"endTime":773.52,"body":"Palestine also cover they're not"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":769.92,"endTime":773.52,"body":"saying I am Muslim, they are"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":773.52,"endTime":776.64,"body":"saying like, this is how I dress"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":773.52,"endTime":776.64,"body":"if I want to be treated a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":776.64,"endTime":783.18,"body":"specific way in public, which is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":776.64,"endTime":783.18,"body":"complicated, and no, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":783.18,"endTime":785.04,"body":"going down a whole gender hole."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":785.28,"endTime":787.83,"body":"But no, we're gonna get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":785.28,"endTime":787.83,"body":"there in a second. So let me ask"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":787.83,"endTime":791.85,"body":"you a question then. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":787.83,"endTime":791.85,"body":"great, your opinion, what is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":791.85,"endTime":793.95,"body":"pious or modest fashion?"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":794.25,"endTime":798.24,"body":"So when I think about"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":794.25,"endTime":798.24,"body":"pious or modest fashion, I think"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":798.27,"endTime":805.62,"body":"about cultures that tell folks"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":798.27,"endTime":805.62,"body":"how they should present their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":805.62,"endTime":810.57,"body":"bodies if they wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":805.62,"endTime":810.57,"body":"treated respectfully, or taken"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":810.57,"endTime":817.89,"body":"seriously or assumed to be okay,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":810.57,"endTime":817.89,"body":"honestly. So like, no shoulders"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":817.89,"endTime":822.39,"body":"in shul Sunday, Pastor church,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":817.89,"endTime":822.39,"body":"high coverage, looser fit"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":822.39,"endTime":827.07,"body":"clothes, in your Gurdwara,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":822.39,"endTime":827.07,"body":"Europeans not wearing shorts on"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":827.07,"endTime":831.6,"body":"grown man even when it is very"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":827.07,"endTime":831.6,"body":"hot. Sometimes when you cross"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":831.6,"endTime":834.51,"body":"the border into Vermont, you are"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":831.6,"endTime":834.51,"body":"issued dense goes and muck"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":834.51,"endTime":838.86,"body":"boots, right? It's it is a way"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":834.51,"endTime":838.86,"body":"that you show you fit in a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":838.86,"endTime":841.65,"body":"space, right clothing, like"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":838.86,"endTime":841.65,"body":"everything else is culturally"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":841.65,"endTime":844.77,"body":"and historically contingent and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":841.65,"endTime":844.77,"body":"comporting your body and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":844.77,"endTime":852.06,"body":"specific ways, signals to folks"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":844.77,"endTime":852.06,"body":"around you. How you were hoping"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":852.06,"endTime":856.53,"body":"to be received? Yeah. So if"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":852.06,"endTime":856.53,"body":"we're thinking about pious"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":856.53,"endTime":859.89,"body":"fashion, specifically, we are"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":856.53,"endTime":859.89,"body":"thinking about the ways that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":859.89,"endTime":865.02,"body":"folks work within a framework of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":859.89,"endTime":865.02,"body":"piety of purposeful religious"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":865.02,"endTime":869.04,"body":"cultivation and devotion of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":865.02,"endTime":869.04,"body":"right relationship. But like"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":869.07,"endTime":873.39,"body":"pious fashion is also about"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":869.07,"endTime":873.39,"body":"looking good. This is not a fit"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":873.39,"endTime":876.09,"body":"that you put on that says, Don't"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":873.39,"endTime":876.09,"body":"look at me, I want to be"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":876.09,"endTime":881.07,"body":"invisible. I want to look like a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":876.09,"endTime":881.07,"body":"monk. These are Garm halls that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":881.07,"endTime":886.2,"body":"the wearer says, I look cute as"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":881.07,"endTime":886.2,"body":"hell and also my Luke lines up"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":886.2,"endTime":889.32,"body":"with my moral and religious and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":886.2,"endTime":889.32,"body":"or cultural values and norms"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":889.32,"endTime":892.74,"body":"like I am both right with God"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":889.32,"endTime":892.74,"body":"and I am right like this is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":892.74,"endTime":898.14,"body":"correct. So it can be how I have"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":892.74,"endTime":898.14,"body":"adorned myself how have"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":898.14,"endTime":902.4,"body":"celebrated my temple also helps"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":898.14,"endTime":902.4,"body":"me keep my own piety, my own"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":902.4,"endTime":907.17,"body":"commitments at the forefront of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":902.4,"endTime":907.17,"body":"my brain, but not always."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":907.41,"endTime":910.32,"body":"That's, that's it. That's pious"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":907.41,"endTime":910.32,"body":"fashion. It's sartorial choices"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":910.32,"endTime":912.69,"body":"that people are making with"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":910.32,"endTime":912.69,"body":"their religious and their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":912.69,"endTime":915.15,"body":"cultural and their personal"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":912.69,"endTime":915.15,"body":"values and commitments in mind."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":915.15,"endTime":917.07,"body":"And like, let's be real when"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":915.15,"endTime":917.07,"body":"we're talking about this stuff."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":917.34,"endTime":920.76,"body":"We are often talking about women"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":917.34,"endTime":920.76,"body":"and femmes because gender bias"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":920.76,"endTime":923.82,"body":"and misogyny locates these"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":920.76,"endTime":923.82,"body":"conversations on the bodies of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":923.82,"endTime":927.45,"body":"women. And femmes and I know I"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":923.82,"endTime":927.45,"body":"mentioned this before, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":927.45,"endTime":930.84,"body":"just gonna say it again. This"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":927.45,"endTime":930.84,"body":"isn't just a Muslim"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":930.84,"endTime":934.83,"body":"conversation, and I am forever"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":930.84,"endTime":934.83,"body":"haunted by watching friends in"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":934.83,"endTime":938.58,"body":"grad school play that left"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":934.83,"endTime":938.58,"body":"behind game where you convert"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":938.58,"endTime":941.19,"body":"people by like shooting pairs at"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":938.58,"endTime":941.19,"body":"them, but like, it's still a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":941.19,"endTime":943.56,"body":"shooter game. And when you"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":941.19,"endTime":943.56,"body":"convert them by shooting them,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":943.56,"endTime":946.26,"body":"the women's hemlines immediately"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":943.56,"endTime":946.26,"body":"drop and their sleeves get"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":946.26,"endTime":946.65,"body":"longer."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":947.1,"endTime":952.29,"body":"Just why? Yeah, fucked up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":947.1,"endTime":952.29,"body":"about it. I don't know any. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":952.29,"endTime":956.16,"body":"don't know any of that. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":952.29,"endTime":956.16,"body":"horrified. Yeah, yeah, I messed"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":956.16,"endTime":956.73,"body":"up about it."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":962.58,"endTime":964.95,"body":"What's job what does that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":962.58,"endTime":964.95,"body":"have to do with pious fashion?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":965.31,"endTime":968.16,"body":"Great question. Hey,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":965.31,"endTime":968.16,"body":"thanks, hijab, at least in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":968.16,"endTime":970.98,"body":"Western communities, and English"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":968.16,"endTime":970.98,"body":"speaking communities in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":970.98,"endTime":974.67,"body":"particular is a catch all for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":970.98,"endTime":974.67,"body":"Islamic modest fashion,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":974.94,"endTime":978.3,"body":"especially but not exclusively"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":974.94,"endTime":978.3,"body":"head coverings for women. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":978.3,"endTime":981.69,"body":"but like hijab is a particular"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":978.3,"endTime":981.69,"body":"word that I know you're shocked"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":981.69,"endTime":986.46,"body":"Megan means different things in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":981.69,"endTime":986.46,"body":"different places. So like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":986.46,"endTime":992.55,"body":"culture example, when I lived in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":986.46,"endTime":992.55,"body":"Tajikistan, hijab was more of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":992.55,"endTime":997.41,"body":"like a bandana or a loose"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":992.55,"endTime":997.41,"body":"fitting skullcap honestly, for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":997.41,"endTime":1001.58,"body":"women. So think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":997.41,"endTime":1001.58,"body":"because this is a great place to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1001.58,"endTime":1003.38,"body":"talk about the visuals of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1001.58,"endTime":1003.38,"body":"something. But I want you to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1003.38,"endTime":1008.45,"body":"imagine that there's hair"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1003.38,"endTime":1008.45,"body":"visible always ears out. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1008.45,"endTime":1011.63,"body":"your braid or a plant down your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1008.45,"endTime":1011.63,"body":"neck, which is like totally"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1011.63,"endTime":1015.53,"body":"visible, which is super"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1011.63,"endTime":1015.53,"body":"different from how my Arab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1015.53,"endTime":1019.31,"body":"hijabi friends often wear like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1015.53,"endTime":1019.31,"body":"an under cap and then tie a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1019.31,"endTime":1023.63,"body":"scarf over it, where one would"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1019.31,"endTime":1023.63,"body":"never see hair or ears."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1023.99,"endTime":1027.68,"body":"Or I still remember to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1023.99,"endTime":1027.68,"body":"see in like a little bit in her"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1027.68,"endTime":1031.79,"body":"like, lovely, lovely way. But"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1027.68,"endTime":1031.79,"body":"mocking sister of the pod"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1031.79,"endTime":1034.91,"body":"Kathleen M foodie. When she had"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1031.79,"endTime":1034.91,"body":"to go get her picture taken for"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1034.91,"endTime":1038.66,"body":"her visa to Iran, she had like,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1034.91,"endTime":1038.66,"body":"tied her head covering in the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1038.66,"endTime":1041.54,"body":"way that grannies do it. And to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1038.66,"endTime":1041.54,"body":"see him was like, please, before"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1041.54,"endTime":1043.61,"body":"you leave, let me show you how"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1041.54,"endTime":1043.61,"body":"to do this so that you don't"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1043.61,"endTime":1045.08,"body":"look like you're 90, right."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1045.139,"endTime":1047.449,"body":"And that's like, again,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1045.139,"endTime":1047.449,"body":"like each place is culturally"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1047.449,"endTime":1050.179,"body":"conditioned like but like my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1047.449,"endTime":1050.179,"body":"Indian Muslim friends like like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1050.179,"endTime":1053.539,"body":"the ones from India, not Indian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1050.179,"endTime":1053.539,"body":"Americans who also have a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1053.539,"endTime":1057.019,"body":"different style, often just wrap"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1053.539,"endTime":1057.019,"body":"a longer scarf around their hair"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1057.019,"endTime":1059.719,"body":"like easy, breezy, beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1057.019,"endTime":1059.719,"body":"and to be really assumptive in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1059.719,"endTime":1063.529,"body":"short handed here. They seem not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1059.719,"endTime":1063.529,"body":"to care if hairs poking out."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1063.529,"endTime":1068.059,"body":"Like it's kind of like a soft"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1063.529,"endTime":1068.059,"body":"drape, if you will. And I too"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1068.059,"endTime":1072.409,"body":"have been made fun of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1068.059,"endTime":1072.409,"body":"relentlessly for like tying a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1072.409,"endTime":1075.979,"body":"tighter scarf, because it makes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1072.409,"endTime":1075.979,"body":"me look more conservative. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1075.979,"endTime":1077.749,"body":"they're like you're the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1075.979,"endTime":1077.749,"body":"American. What are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1077.779,"endTime":1080.419,"body":"Like this is unnecessary? And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1077.779,"endTime":1080.419,"body":"I'm like, but I'm meeting your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1080.419,"endTime":1084.829,"body":"grandmother, like I need to look"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1080.419,"endTime":1084.829,"body":"appropriate. And they're like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1085.549,"endTime":1092.599,"body":"Girl No, like you look at Staci."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1085.549,"endTime":1092.599,"body":"Right. So I want you to hear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1092.599,"endTime":1096.259,"body":"that this word hijab, which we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1092.599,"endTime":1096.259,"body":"use to mean like all Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1096.259,"endTime":1100.999,"body":"covering forever. It actually"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1096.259,"endTime":1100.999,"body":"has like local flavors and also"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1100.999,"endTime":1105.019,"body":"local words. So there's other"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1100.999,"endTime":1105.019,"body":"words for moto stress. Hijab is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1105.019,"endTime":1107.419,"body":"just the one that Western media"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1105.019,"endTime":1107.419,"body":"and Western white folk fixate"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1107.419,"endTime":1111.649,"body":"on. Alongside niqab wear hijab,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1107.419,"endTime":1111.649,"body":"again, is a head covering almost"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1111.649,"endTime":1115.489,"body":"exclusively, and in a cab would"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1111.649,"endTime":1115.489,"body":"be a full face covering and a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1115.489,"endTime":1118.759,"body":"head covering and sometimes also"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1115.489,"endTime":1118.759,"body":"includes the full body covering."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1119.029,"endTime":1122.029,"body":"I mean, that's how Muslims would"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1119.029,"endTime":1122.029,"body":"use that phrase, but I've seen"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1122.029,"endTime":1126.409,"body":"the media just like loosened"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1122.029,"endTime":1126.409,"body":"lazy lucidly. Yes word. Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1126.439,"endTime":1129.049,"body":"just as like a smattering of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1126.439,"endTime":1129.049,"body":"words that you might have heard"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1129.049,"endTime":1133.459,"body":"of. There's hijab niqab. Joe Bab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1129.049,"endTime":1133.459,"body":"Kumar and burqa burqa bands are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1133.459,"endTime":1136.489,"body":"the other thing we see burqa and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1133.459,"endTime":1136.489,"body":"niqab tend to be linked up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1136.489,"endTime":1140.299,"body":"together, and hijab, jilbab and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1136.489,"endTime":1140.299,"body":"Kumar tend to be linked"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1140.329,"endTime":1144.169,"body":"together. But that's not how all"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1140.329,"endTime":1144.169,"body":"of these cultures and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1144.169,"endTime":1148.219,"body":"communities would use them."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1144.169,"endTime":1148.219,"body":"Right? So I want us to hear that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1148.219,"endTime":1152.989,"body":"we have already and just asking,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1148.219,"endTime":1152.989,"body":"what is hijab collapsed? Like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1153.949,"endTime":1157.879,"body":"many, many hundreds and hundreds"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1153.949,"endTime":1157.879,"body":"of years of history, all of the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1157.879,"endTime":1163.309,"body":"cultures of the world and really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1157.879,"endTime":1163.309,"body":"specific specific local dressing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1163.309,"endTime":1166.429,"body":"practices. And I want to be I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1163.309,"endTime":1166.429,"body":"want to be like a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1166.429,"endTime":1170.449,"body":"a bitch here for a minute. But"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1166.429,"endTime":1170.449,"body":"like, I often when I teach this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1170.659,"endTime":1176.089,"body":"in my class, and I'm so grumpy"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1170.659,"endTime":1176.089,"body":"about it, because 911 can drink"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1176.179,"endTime":1180.019,"body":"and my students are younger than"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1176.179,"endTime":1180.019,"body":"that and so you should know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1180.019,"endTime":1182.359,"body":"better right? Like if we're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1180.019,"endTime":1182.359,"body":"going to be fixated on Islam we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1182.359,"endTime":1184.759,"body":"should know better and yet we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1182.359,"endTime":1184.759,"body":"never do and I always put up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1184.759,"endTime":1188.449,"body":"this like birdwatching guide,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1184.759,"endTime":1188.449,"body":"and it's like an image of how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1188.449,"endTime":1191.239,"body":"all the different region it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1188.449,"endTime":1191.239,"body":"from a Muslim fashion blog"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1191.239,"endTime":1194.359,"body":"that's like, here's how to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1191.239,"endTime":1194.359,"body":"channel your like super hot"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1194.359,"endTime":1198.589,"body":"couture Istanbul versus your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1194.359,"endTime":1198.589,"body":"like super cutie Cairo look and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1198.589,"endTime":1201.439,"body":"it's like from like a car smo"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1198.589,"endTime":1201.439,"body":"right? It's like that kind of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1201.439,"endTime":1204.859,"body":"genre. And I show them that and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1201.439,"endTime":1204.859,"body":"they're all like, oh my god,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1204.949,"endTime":1208.639,"body":"invariably, invariably, it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1204.949,"endTime":1208.639,"body":"like, oh my God, there's so much"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1208.639,"endTime":1213.199,"body":"to learn. I could never imagine"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1208.639,"endTime":1213.199,"body":"and then I show them one of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1213.199,"endTime":1217.159,"body":"those pants guides from like an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1213.199,"endTime":1217.159,"body":"American Cosmo. That's like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1217.459,"endTime":1223.759,"body":"flares, cigarette pants. Cool."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1217.459,"endTime":1223.759,"body":"Lots, capris, Bermuda shorts,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1223.789,"endTime":1227.539,"body":"short shorts, booty short, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1223.789,"endTime":1227.539,"body":"and I'm like, you fucking know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1227.539,"endTime":1230.959,"body":"this about your own clothing."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1227.539,"endTime":1230.959,"body":"Right? Right. You know this, you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1230.959,"endTime":1234.679,"body":"know that? Particularly women's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1230.959,"endTime":1234.679,"body":"clothing has 1000 different"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1234.679,"endTime":1239.599,"body":"specific terminologies? Yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1234.679,"endTime":1239.599,"body":"know somehow what a high rise"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1239.599,"endTime":1244.309,"body":"mom boot cut means. Like, you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1239.599,"endTime":1244.309,"body":"can't like hit job means"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1244.309,"endTime":1246.529,"body":"everything. Get the fuck outta"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1244.309,"endTime":1246.529,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1246.8,"endTime":1248.63,"body":"Yeah, no, that's trash."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1246.8,"endTime":1248.63,"body":"That's trash. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1248.63,"endTime":1252.59,"body":"I just I want to say out"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1248.63,"endTime":1252.59,"body":"loud that fashion words. There"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1252.59,"endTime":1256.52,"body":"are many. And that applies to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1252.59,"endTime":1256.52,"body":"Muslims and Muslim cultures too."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1257.54,"endTime":1260.87,"body":"Because they're people"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1257.54,"endTime":1260.87,"body":"shock."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1269.39,"endTime":1271.37,"body":"So Goodwin, let me ask"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1269.39,"endTime":1271.37,"body":"you a question now that we know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1271.52,"endTime":1274.28,"body":"kind of what a hijab is. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1271.52,"endTime":1274.28,"body":"we're more or less clear on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1274.28,"endTime":1279.2,"body":"pious fashion. Why? Why do women"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1274.28,"endTime":1279.2,"body":"choose to wear hijab?"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1279.5,"endTime":1289.31,"body":"I mean, why do women do"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1279.5,"endTime":1289.31,"body":"anything really? I don't. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1289.61,"endTime":1292.67,"body":"just like all of the fucking"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1289.61,"endTime":1292.67,"body":"reasons that women do anything"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1292.79,"endTime":1296.69,"body":"ever, right? They make choices."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1292.79,"endTime":1296.69,"body":"Those choices are constrained by"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1296.69,"endTime":1298.82,"body":"the cultures and the time"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1296.69,"endTime":1298.82,"body":"periods they find themselves in,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1298.82,"endTime":1302.27,"body":"but they're making choices all"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1298.82,"endTime":1302.27,"body":"the time. For some folks, it is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1302.27,"endTime":1304.79,"body":"about piety. It is about"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1302.27,"endTime":1304.79,"body":"building right relationship with"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1304.79,"endTime":1308.12,"body":"God and yourself and your"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1304.79,"endTime":1308.12,"body":"community and your family. Women"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1308.15,"endTime":1311.15,"body":"might choose to cover because"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1308.15,"endTime":1311.15,"body":"they look good doing it and they"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1311.15,"endTime":1316.19,"body":"want to look good and great for"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1311.15,"endTime":1316.19,"body":"them. For some of them, it is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1316.19,"endTime":1319.88,"body":"about carving out space to not"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1316.19,"endTime":1319.88,"body":"be looked at, to say that my"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1319.88,"endTime":1322.94,"body":"whole body is not for you to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1319.88,"endTime":1322.94,"body":"behold and fuck off. Love that."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1323.3,"endTime":1327.02,"body":"For some folks, they are"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1323.3,"endTime":1327.02,"body":"pressured into doing it. We get"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1327.02,"endTime":1329.33,"body":"pressured into doing a whole lot"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1327.02,"endTime":1329.33,"body":"of things. Jesus, my parents"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1329.33,"endTime":1331.49,"body":"pressured me real hard to like,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1329.33,"endTime":1331.49,"body":"Oh, don't get married now"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1331.49,"endTime":1334.76,"body":"babies. I did one of those"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1331.49,"endTime":1334.76,"body":"things, but not in ways that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1334.76,"endTime":1337.82,"body":"they like, right? So peer"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1334.76,"endTime":1337.82,"body":"pressure, coercion, absolutely a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1337.82,"endTime":1341.3,"body":"thing to your family expecting"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1337.82,"endTime":1341.3,"body":"it your culture, expecting it."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1341.9,"endTime":1345.8,"body":"feeling better about leaving"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1341.9,"endTime":1345.8,"body":"your family and being out going"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1345.8,"endTime":1349.28,"body":"to college or something. That's"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1345.8,"endTime":1349.28,"body":"sometimes why folks choose to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1349.28,"endTime":1352.55,"body":"cover. Yeah, you're just used to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1349.28,"endTime":1352.55,"body":"it. You're just in the habit as"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1352.55,"endTime":1356.54,"body":"it were. That's fellas and joke"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1352.55,"endTime":1356.54,"body":"as well as the truth. It can be"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1356.54,"endTime":1360.17,"body":"comfortable. Sometimes it just"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1356.54,"endTime":1360.17,"body":"feels good on your body, she"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1360.17,"endTime":1363.62,"body":"says artistically. And then also"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1360.17,"endTime":1363.62,"body":"like straight up speaking of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1363.62,"endTime":1366.95,"body":"coercion, there are legal"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1363.62,"endTime":1366.95,"body":"reasons that people do it. In"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1366.95,"endTime":1370.07,"body":"the past, Saudi women had to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1366.95,"endTime":1370.07,"body":"cover Iran currently women have"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1370.07,"endTime":1372.47,"body":"to cover but like, and we're"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1370.07,"endTime":1372.47,"body":"going to talk about homophobia"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1372.47,"endTime":1375.83,"body":"far in the homework. But like in"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1372.47,"endTime":1375.83,"body":"Iran, women were also forced to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1375.83,"endTime":1379.49,"body":"uncover as part of like a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1375.83,"endTime":1379.49,"body":"secular modernization. So is it"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1379.49,"endTime":1381.77,"body":"about what's on their headers"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1379.49,"endTime":1381.77,"body":"heard about controlling women's"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1381.77,"endTime":1384.74,"body":"bodies? I think you know the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1381.77,"endTime":1384.74,"body":"answer to that, sometimes for"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1384.74,"endTime":1388.37,"body":"legal protest. In the past,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1384.74,"endTime":1388.37,"body":"Turkish women have covered and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1388.37,"endTime":1391.43,"body":"uncovered for protest reasons."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1388.37,"endTime":1391.43,"body":"And in Quebec, and in the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1391.43,"endTime":1394.04,"body":"Netherlands and France currently"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1391.43,"endTime":1394.04,"body":"covering is complicated, which"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1394.04,"endTime":1397.19,"body":"is particularly fucked up in a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1394.04,"endTime":1397.19,"body":"time of COVID, where folks had"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1397.19,"endTime":1400.04,"body":"been compelled to cover their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1397.19,"endTime":1400.04,"body":"faces for public health reasons,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1400.04,"endTime":1402.44,"body":"but we're punished for doing it"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1400.04,"endTime":1402.44,"body":"for religious reasons."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1402.47,"endTime":1405.53,"body":"Everything is a mess. And people"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1402.47,"endTime":1405.53,"body":"are not great to each other,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1405.56,"endTime":1411.05,"body":"particularly when you're"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1405.56,"endTime":1411.05,"body":"different. Yeah, that's why"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1411.05,"endTime":1414.35,"body":"women might choose to cover"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1411.05,"endTime":1414.35,"body":"their heads."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1415.25,"endTime":1417.74,"body":"Yeah, I want to take like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1415.25,"endTime":1417.74,"body":"a pause for two seconds on the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1417.74,"endTime":1421.34,"body":"feminism one because this always"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1417.74,"endTime":1421.34,"body":"breaks a particular audience"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1421.34,"endTime":1427.07,"body":"member of a particular age."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1421.34,"endTime":1427.07,"body":"Because we have been so taught"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1427.1,"endTime":1432.32,"body":"in the United States to see"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1427.1,"endTime":1432.32,"body":"hijab as oppressive that when"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1432.32,"endTime":1436.46,"body":"folks in their own voices like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1432.32,"endTime":1436.46,"body":"there's this clip I have that I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1436.46,"endTime":1440.06,"body":"always play where it's like a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1436.46,"endTime":1440.06,"body":"bunch of young college aged or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1440.09,"endTime":1443.87,"body":"like 20s Muslim women saying"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1440.09,"endTime":1443.87,"body":"things like, yeah, I wear this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1443.87,"endTime":1448.82,"body":"because I'm a raging feminist"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1443.87,"endTime":1448.82,"body":"and this is awesome. And this is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1448.82,"endTime":1452.93,"body":"where like, white women of a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1448.82,"endTime":1452.93,"body":"certain age like short out, like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1452.93,"endTime":1456.05,"body":"truly you're like, Okay, Boomer"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1452.93,"endTime":1456.05,"body":"shot, there's like, be quiet. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1456.05,"endTime":1459.71,"body":"know, like you are, you have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1456.05,"endTime":1459.71,"body":"shorted out, we will reboot you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1459.74,"endTime":1462.53,"body":"in a second. But like, let me"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1459.74,"endTime":1462.53,"body":"explain this through your gun"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1462.53,"endTime":1468.35,"body":"maximum under yeah, like I just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1462.53,"endTime":1468.35,"body":"like, I'm aware that when you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1468.35,"endTime":1470.75,"body":"have been taught that this thing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1468.35,"endTime":1470.75,"body":"is oppressive. And when you are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1470.75,"endTime":1474.53,"body":"part of like a burn your bra, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1470.75,"endTime":1474.53,"body":"can show my shoulders in shul"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1474.95,"endTime":1479.42,"body":"generation that this might feel"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1474.95,"endTime":1479.42,"body":"untrue to you. But the idea, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1479.42,"endTime":1482.9,"body":"just want to underline what you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1479.42,"endTime":1482.9,"body":"said Megan, which is the I wear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1482.9,"endTime":1486.32,"body":"hijab I cover I wear loose"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1482.9,"endTime":1486.32,"body":"fitting garments, so that I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1486.32,"endTime":1491.24,"body":"control what men have access to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1486.32,"endTime":1491.24,"body":"see, yeah, I'm going to use men"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1491.24,"endTime":1494.27,"body":"here because that's often who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1491.24,"endTime":1494.27,"body":"we're protecting again, right?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1494.27,"endTime":1497.81,"body":"The male gaze is often the one"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1494.27,"endTime":1497.81,"body":"that we are worried about. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1497.81,"endTime":1500.0,"body":"want you to hear that within a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1497.81,"endTime":1500.0,"body":"feminist context that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1503.84,"body":"not mean all Muslim feminists"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1503.84,"body":"cover or at all, but there are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1503.84,"endTime":1507.92,"body":"plenty of Muslims who cover who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1503.84,"endTime":1507.92,"body":"then identify as feminist or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1508.46,"endTime":1513.68,"body":"egalitarian or like politics, or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1508.46,"endTime":1513.68,"body":"like radical because this is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1513.68,"endTime":1518.27,"body":"about moving in the world. It is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1513.68,"endTime":1518.27,"body":"not about the clothing having an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1518.27,"endTime":1519.08,"body":"inherent value."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1520.07,"endTime":1524.3,"body":"Right? Well, and we have"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1520.07,"endTime":1524.3,"body":"folks, Muslim women and other"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1524.33,"endTime":1527.51,"body":"women of religious conviction"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1524.33,"endTime":1527.51,"body":"talking about feeling empowered,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1527.57,"endTime":1531.23,"body":"that they're taking their bodies"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1527.57,"endTime":1531.23,"body":"back. I use an article in class"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1531.23,"endTime":1534.74,"body":"that woman who started covering"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1531.23,"endTime":1534.74,"body":"when she went to college, also"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1534.74,"endTime":1538.76,"body":"said it helped her rethink her"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1534.74,"endTime":1538.76,"body":"relationship to food and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1538.76,"endTime":1540.92,"body":"disordered eating because she"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1538.76,"endTime":1540.92,"body":"didn't feel like she was on"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1540.92,"endTime":1543.8,"body":"display or for public"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1540.92,"endTime":1543.8,"body":"consumption all the time. I"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1543.8,"endTime":1547.43,"body":"also, I have a clip that I like"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1543.8,"endTime":1547.43,"body":"to use that I think we've"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1547.43,"endTime":1551.3,"body":"assigned before, but it's the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1547.43,"endTime":1551.3,"body":"niqab bitches in France, after"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1551.3,"endTime":1555.17,"body":"one of countless stupid attempts"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1551.3,"endTime":1555.17,"body":"to tell Muslim women how they"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1555.17,"endTime":1557.93,"body":"should be in public where"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1555.17,"endTime":1557.93,"body":"they're running around in the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1557.93,"endTime":1560.96,"body":"cops, right? So they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1557.93,"endTime":1560.96,"body":"covered to the waist with just"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1560.96,"endTime":1562.58,"body":"their eyes poking out. And"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1560.96,"endTime":1562.58,"body":"they're running around in booty"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1562.58,"endTime":1567.02,"body":"shorts and like high high heels"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1562.58,"endTime":1567.02,"body":"in front of public offices and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1567.05,"endTime":1571.1,"body":"government buildings and the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1567.05,"endTime":1571.1,"body":"protest there is Why is it okay"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1571.1,"endTime":1574.07,"body":"for me to uncover like this, but"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1571.1,"endTime":1574.07,"body":"not to say I don't want my body"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1574.07,"endTime":1578.3,"body":"to be for public consumption."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1574.07,"endTime":1578.3,"body":"Yeah. Anyway, feminism is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1578.3,"endTime":1581.15,"body":"complicated, and maybe doesn't"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1578.3,"endTime":1581.15,"body":"always look like what you think"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1581.15,"endTime":1581.72,"body":"it should look like."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1588.35,"endTime":1593.24,"body":"I have a question for you. Hit"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1588.35,"endTime":1593.24,"body":"me. How can people how can our"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1593.24,"endTime":1595.85,"body":"beloved nerds and the folks that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1593.24,"endTime":1595.85,"body":"they're going to talk about this"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1595.85,"endTime":1601.22,"body":"with later? How can they be less"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1595.85,"endTime":1601.22,"body":"incorrect about covering them?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1602.0,"endTime":1605.0,"body":"For starters, care less,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1602.0,"endTime":1605.0,"body":"care less about what others are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1605.0,"endTime":1607.13,"body":"wearing? Unless you want to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1605.0,"endTime":1607.13,"body":"throw someone a badass"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1607.13,"endTime":1611.48,"body":"compliment? Like, truly, if you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1607.13,"endTime":1611.48,"body":"can let men with big Johnson T"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1611.48,"endTime":1616.82,"body":"shirts live in peace? I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1611.48,"endTime":1616.82,"body":"curious. Like just curious if we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1616.82,"endTime":1619.01,"body":"could let a bitch have some"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1616.82,"endTime":1619.01,"body":"fabric on her head without being"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1619.01,"endTime":1623.87,"body":"dicks about it. Like I? I'm over"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1619.01,"endTime":1623.87,"body":"it. Like I just it's just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1623.87,"endTime":1626.36,"body":"clothing. Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1626.419,"endTime":1628.759,"body":"yeah, sometimes we put"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1626.419,"endTime":1628.759,"body":"stuff on. It's not that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1628.759,"endTime":1631.969,"body":"complicated. Also, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1628.759,"endTime":1631.969,"body":"going to I'm going to add in my"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1631.969,"endTime":1635.719,"body":"thing here, which like person"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1631.969,"endTime":1635.719,"body":"wearing a piece of cloth on"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1635.719,"endTime":1639.739,"body":"their head, however significant"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1635.719,"endTime":1639.739,"body":"it is or is not to them does not"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1639.739,"endTime":1643.759,"body":"equal brainwashing add a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1639.739,"endTime":1643.759,"body":"brainwashing as we have"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1643.759,"endTime":1648.049,"body":"discussed at length on this spot"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1643.759,"endTime":1648.049,"body":"is not a thing. But like also,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1648.229,"endTime":1654.109,"body":"what if we take women seriously,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1648.229,"endTime":1654.109,"body":"and trusts that they dress"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1654.109,"endTime":1657.919,"body":"themselves in the morning? On"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1654.109,"endTime":1657.919,"body":"purpose? What if they make"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1657.919,"endTime":1659.449,"body":"choices and are adults?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1661.34,"endTime":1664.31,"body":"And I would add to that,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1661.34,"endTime":1664.31,"body":"you should also ask whether or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1664.31,"endTime":1668.99,"body":"not you're a trusted person."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1664.31,"endTime":1668.99,"body":"Because I have been in tons of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1668.99,"endTime":1673.28,"body":"Muslim women's spaces where like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1668.99,"endTime":1673.28,"body":"when it is just gals, or folks"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1673.28,"endTime":1677.33,"body":"identifying as gals, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1673.28,"endTime":1677.33,"body":"headscarves come off, because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1677.36,"endTime":1680.09,"body":"that's a space for that feels"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1677.36,"endTime":1680.09,"body":"comfortable. And if you're not a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1680.09,"endTime":1683.81,"body":"person for whom that feels"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1680.09,"endTime":1683.81,"body":"comfortable, that's on you, bro,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1683.81,"endTime":1689.0,"body":"that's not Muslim women's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1683.81,"endTime":1689.0,"body":"problem, be safer. So yeah, be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1689.0,"endTime":1693.95,"body":"safer. And I'll add for my final"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1689.0,"endTime":1693.95,"body":"like, what can we do to be less"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1693.95,"endTime":1698.27,"body":"incorrect? Let's stop thinking"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1693.95,"endTime":1698.27,"body":"that a person in modest clothing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1698.27,"endTime":1702.62,"body":"stops thinking at their modesty"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1698.27,"endTime":1702.62,"body":"or their piety. So like, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1702.62,"endTime":1706.22,"body":"promise that women who cover are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1702.62,"endTime":1706.22,"body":"far more than their headscarves"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1706.22,"endTime":1709.22,"body":"or their niqab or they're a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1706.22,"endTime":1709.22,"body":"buyer or their salwaar or their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1710.72,"endTime":1715.25,"body":"burqa, and like I'm mixing in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1710.72,"endTime":1715.25,"body":"names of clothing styles, on top"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1715.25,"endTime":1719.33,"body":"of things that we might consider"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1715.25,"endTime":1719.33,"body":"Islamic fashion on purpose,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1719.39,"endTime":1724.07,"body":"because women are not just their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1719.39,"endTime":1724.07,"body":"jeans. I just like, what if we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1724.07,"endTime":1727.13,"body":"imagined that a hijab II was"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1724.07,"endTime":1727.13,"body":"more than her hijab like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1727.13,"endTime":1730.76,"body":"frankly, even describing women"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1727.13,"endTime":1730.76,"body":"as hijab ease is a conversation"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1730.76,"endTime":1734.84,"body":"we have in my classes, like, why"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1730.76,"endTime":1734.84,"body":"are we comfortable? With like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1734.93,"endTime":1738.86,"body":"referring to group of women is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1734.93,"endTime":1738.86,"body":"like, Yo, head scarves? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1738.86,"endTime":1741.89,"body":"that's not great. And like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1738.86,"endTime":1741.89,"body":"listen, lots of hijab is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1741.89,"endTime":1743.87,"body":"referred to themselves as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1741.89,"endTime":1743.87,"body":"hijabi. So I don't want to like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1743.87,"endTime":1747.8,"body":"take away that agency, but I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1743.87,"endTime":1747.8,"body":"also want to name that like, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1747.8,"endTime":1750.98,"body":"don't know, it's like when my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1747.8,"endTime":1750.98,"body":"dad would like see, like, those"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1750.98,"endTime":1754.67,"body":"skirts, like that's like really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1750.98,"endTime":1754.67,"body":"messed up. That's like early 19"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1755.72,"endTime":1757.7,"body":"rods or something. And like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1755.72,"endTime":1757.7,"body":"what if we don't do"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1757.7,"endTime":1760.25,"body":"it? Like Guys and Dolls"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1757.7,"endTime":1760.25,"body":"level? Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1760.97,"endTime":1767.72,"body":"oh, so nicely, nicely,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1760.97,"endTime":1767.72,"body":"please sit down. Let's talk"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1767.72,"endTime":1768.41,"body":"about some standard."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1768.8,"endTime":1771.86,"body":"What are the states? You"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1768.8,"endTime":1771.86,"body":"can't just give me the musical"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1771.86,"endTime":1773.45,"body":"theater cue and No, no,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1773.45,"endTime":1775.94,"body":"sorry, I queued you up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1773.45,"endTime":1775.94,"body":"and I didn't I did not think of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1775.94,"endTime":1776.87,"body":"the consequences."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1776.99,"endTime":1778.52,"body":"You didn't think it"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1776.99,"endTime":1778.52,"body":"through? It's okay. What are the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1778.52,"endTime":1786.59,"body":"stakes? Well, what if what if we"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1778.52,"endTime":1786.59,"body":"take women seriously? What if"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1786.89,"endTime":1792.53,"body":"their clothes and their choices"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1786.89,"endTime":1792.53,"body":"all are theirs to make? And they"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1792.53,"endTime":1796.28,"body":"are agents who get to make their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1792.53,"endTime":1796.28,"body":"own decisions and probably do"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1796.28,"endTime":1802.67,"body":"so. On purpose? Yeah, like also"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1796.28,"endTime":1802.67,"body":"for saying that, I'm curious"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1802.67,"endTime":1806.54,"body":"about the woman who gets up in"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1802.67,"endTime":1806.54,"body":"the morning and for whom it is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1806.54,"endTime":1808.58,"body":"important to cover because"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1806.54,"endTime":1808.58,"body":"that's how she wants to present"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1808.58,"endTime":1812.12,"body":"herself to the world and to her"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1808.58,"endTime":1812.12,"body":"community and to God. But also"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1812.12,"endTime":1816.35,"body":"she didn't spend like an hour"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1812.12,"endTime":1816.35,"body":"thinking about this is how I"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1816.35,"endTime":1820.94,"body":"will signify it like she got up"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1816.35,"endTime":1820.94,"body":"and she got dressed. Sometimes"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1820.94,"endTime":1823.43,"body":"it's also just a thing that you"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1820.94,"endTime":1823.43,"body":"did without thinking about it"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1823.49,"endTime":1825.92,"body":"that much in maybe stop making"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1823.49,"endTime":1825.92,"body":"such a big fucking deal about"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1825.92,"endTime":1830.51,"body":"everything all the time, and let"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1825.92,"endTime":1830.51,"body":"women live. Yeah, I would like"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1830.51,"endTime":1834.11,"body":"also very much encouraged us to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1830.51,"endTime":1834.11,"body":"take the patriarchy seriously,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1834.11,"endTime":1839.12,"body":"like if you are so angry that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1834.11,"endTime":1839.12,"body":"women want or need to avoid a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1839.12,"endTime":1846.02,"body":"male gaze. Maybe take that shit"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1839.12,"endTime":1846.02,"body":"up with men, because it's their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1846.05,"endTime":1850.67,"body":"eyeballs, and their rapey selves"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1846.05,"endTime":1850.67,"body":"that need correction, and also"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1850.67,"endTime":1854.18,"body":"just consumer culture that says"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1850.67,"endTime":1854.18,"body":"women's bodies are to be"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1854.18,"endTime":1859.16,"body":"consumed and devoured. I hate"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1854.18,"endTime":1859.16,"body":"that. And like as, as we're"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1859.16,"endTime":1864.56,"body":"saying this too, I want to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1859.16,"endTime":1864.56,"body":"specify again, obviously, not"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1864.56,"endTime":1868.79,"body":"all perpetrators of sexual"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1864.56,"endTime":1868.79,"body":"violence are men, but the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1868.79,"endTime":1872.36,"body":"numbers are not on your sides,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1868.79,"endTime":1872.36,"body":"they're friends. And I want to"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1872.36,"endTime":1876.44,"body":"emphasize that when we're"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1872.36,"endTime":1876.44,"body":"talking about folks who cover"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1876.47,"endTime":1880.25,"body":"doing so, to control their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1876.47,"endTime":1880.25,"body":"bodies, to claim their bodies"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1880.25,"endTime":1884.3,"body":"for themselves, that you should"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1880.25,"endTime":1884.3,"body":"be able to walk the streets"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1884.3,"endTime":1886.52,"body":"wearing whatever you want, or"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1884.3,"endTime":1886.52,"body":"nothing at all and still be"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1886.52,"endTime":1890.66,"body":"safe. What and how you're"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1886.52,"endTime":1890.66,"body":"dressing your body does not give"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1890.66,"endTime":1894.95,"body":"other people permission to touch"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1890.66,"endTime":1894.95,"body":"or hurt you. And thinking like"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1894.95,"endTime":1895.1,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1895.1,"endTime":1901.07,"body":"is also gross. Nor does a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1895.1,"endTime":1901.07,"body":"full body burqa protect you."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1901.55,"endTime":1906.89,"body":"Because it's not as if Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1901.55,"endTime":1906.89,"body":"women who cover are immune to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1906.89,"endTime":1911.03,"body":"sexual violence exactly like the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1906.89,"endTime":1911.03,"body":"the logic here is just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1911.03,"endTime":1912.89,"body":"patriarchy. And so what if,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1913.1,"endTime":1915.65,"body":"well, if we don't do"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1913.1,"endTime":1915.65,"body":"that, right, well, and I've also"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1915.65,"endTime":1919.37,"body":"seen that kind of rhetoric"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1915.65,"endTime":1919.37,"body":"weaponized against survivors of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1919.37,"endTime":1921.29,"body":"sexual assault who are also"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1919.37,"endTime":1921.29,"body":"Muslim and like, well, if you"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1921.29,"endTime":1924.53,"body":"had covered, then surely"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1921.29,"endTime":1924.53,"body":"properly, that's not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1924.83,"endTime":1927.26,"body":"right. That's not how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1924.83,"endTime":1927.26,"body":"this works. It is not."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1928.129,"endTime":1930.049,"body":"And then women who cover"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1928.129,"endTime":1930.049,"body":"are also visible targets for"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1930.049,"endTime":1933.949,"body":"perpetrators police and laws. So"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1930.049,"endTime":1933.949,"body":"again, 16 nation states are"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1933.949,"endTime":1939.109,"body":"currently banning burkas, again,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1933.949,"endTime":1939.109,"body":"16 nation states have said that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1939.109,"endTime":1942.229,"body":"Muslims cannot choose their own"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1939.109,"endTime":1942.229,"body":"clothing that Muslim women are"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1942.229,"endTime":1944.299,"body":"not adults who can make choices"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1942.229,"endTime":1944.299,"body":"about what they put on their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1944.299,"endTime":1949.339,"body":"bodies, to nation states require"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1944.299,"endTime":1949.339,"body":"covering Iran and Afghanistan,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1949.369,"endTime":1952.519,"body":"which proves the same thing"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1949.369,"endTime":1952.519,"body":"citizens cannot choose their"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1952.519,"endTime":1955.759,"body":"clothes, and other still have"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1952.519,"endTime":1955.759,"body":"partial bands like government"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1955.759,"endTime":1959.239,"body":"employees not being able to wear"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1955.759,"endTime":1959.239,"body":"hijab or niqab and we've we've"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":1959.239,"endTime":1960.259,"body":"got a list in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1960.86,"endTime":1964.16,"body":"Yeah. I also want to I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1960.86,"endTime":1964.16,"body":"want to underline this legal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1964.19,"endTime":1967.76,"body":"state here because that's where"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1964.19,"endTime":1967.76,"body":"we started and I we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1967.76,"endTime":1970.85,"body":"wrap up but that's where we're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1967.76,"endTime":1970.85,"body":"gonna end to because this is not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1970.85,"endTime":1975.83,"body":"just about like women be doing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1970.85,"endTime":1975.83,"body":"things for themselves making"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1975.83,"endTime":1979.19,"body":"choices getting dressed. This is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1975.83,"endTime":1979.19,"body":"not like a shear Horwitz"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1979.19,"endTime":1982.7,"body":"clothing montage moment where"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1979.19,"endTime":1982.7,"body":"like, all choices are equal."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1982.73,"endTime":1987.86,"body":"These are politicized choices in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1982.73,"endTime":1987.86,"body":"de facto industry ways. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1987.89,"endTime":1991.19,"body":"very excited about and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1987.89,"endTime":1991.19,"body":"frustrated by the legal things"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1991.19,"endTime":1993.5,"body":"because there's all of these"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1991.19,"endTime":1993.5,"body":"laws happening around the world."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1993.5,"endTime":1999.59,"body":"So as you just said, 16 nation"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1993.5,"endTime":1999.59,"body":"states, Ban burkas, and then"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1999.59,"endTime":2003.31,"body":"there are, I think, dozens more"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":1999.59,"endTime":2003.31,"body":"that have partial bands or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2003.31,"endTime":2008.02,"body":"contextual bands on either hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2003.31,"endTime":2008.02,"body":"or niqab. But then like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2008.02,"endTime":2010.66,"body":"those are located in white,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2008.02,"endTime":2010.66,"body":"predominantly Christian,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2010.69,"endTime":2014.89,"body":"European and American, European"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2010.69,"endTime":2014.89,"body":"and North American states. But"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2014.89,"endTime":2018.1,"body":"there's also laws in the Indian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2014.89,"endTime":2018.1,"body":"state of Karnataka that made"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2018.1,"endTime":2022.15,"body":"hijab illegal for students."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2018.1,"endTime":2022.15,"body":"These are Hindu, right Hindu"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2022.15,"endTime":2026.53,"body":"fundamentalist Hindu nationalist"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2022.15,"endTime":2026.53,"body":"laws that erupted in violence"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2026.53,"endTime":2030.04,"body":"not that long ago. In the state,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2026.53,"endTime":2030.04,"body":"just 40 minutes to my North"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2030.04,"endTime":2033.46,"body":"Quebec. There's an anti niqab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2030.04,"endTime":2033.46,"body":"and hijab law making Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2033.46,"endTime":2037.87,"body":"women who cover illegal in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2033.46,"endTime":2037.87,"body":"public service jobs. So you want"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2037.87,"endTime":2041.59,"body":"to be a teacher you want to be a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2037.87,"endTime":2041.59,"body":"government employee? Nope. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2041.59,"endTime":2048.94,"body":"what does it mean that we are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2041.59,"endTime":2048.94,"body":"writing out? Muslim women and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2048.94,"endTime":2054.58,"body":"Sikh men and in some cases, Jews"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2048.94,"endTime":2054.58,"body":"from working in any government"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2054.61,"endTime":2058.78,"body":"sector? What are we teaching"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2054.61,"endTime":2058.78,"body":"children if we are teaching them"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2058.78,"endTime":2061.57,"body":"that Muslims are not suitable to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2058.78,"endTime":2061.57,"body":"be teachers"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2062.23,"endTime":2064.18,"body":"in an alleged democracy,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2064.24,"endTime":2067.63,"body":"right, and an alleged"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2064.24,"endTime":2067.63,"body":"destiny, oh, also in an alleged"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2067.63,"endTime":2074.35,"body":"liberal country? Mm hmm. Okay."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2067.63,"endTime":2074.35,"body":"France also disallows hijabs"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2074.35,"endTime":2077.56,"body":"into cubs, but specifically"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2074.35,"endTime":2077.56,"body":"won't let girls under the age of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2077.59,"endTime":2085.75,"body":"18 cover. So your childhood"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2077.59,"endTime":2085.75,"body":"choices which normally would be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2085.75,"endTime":2092.59,"body":"adjudicated by your guardian, or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2085.75,"endTime":2092.59,"body":"parent or not, because France,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2093.49,"endTime":2098.11,"body":"one of the most racist places"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2093.49,"endTime":2098.11,"body":"ever has a real problem with"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2098.11,"endTime":2103.36,"body":"Muslims. And it does does not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2098.11,"endTime":2103.36,"body":"trust Muslim parents to raise"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2103.36,"endTime":2108.22,"body":"Muslim children? Or, as a friend"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2103.36,"endTime":2108.22,"body":"of mine once said, It does trust"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2108.22,"endTime":2110.38,"body":"Muslim parents to raise Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2108.22,"endTime":2110.38,"body":"children, which is why it does"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2110.38,"endTime":2116.59,"body":"not allow it work. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2110.38,"endTime":2116.59,"body":"Yeah. And there's also all of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2116.59,"endTime":2119.14,"body":"these other places where hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2116.59,"endTime":2119.14,"body":"has been banned either partially"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2119.14,"endTime":2122.2,"body":"or not in the United States, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2119.14,"endTime":2122.2,"body":"lost track. At one point, there"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2122.2,"endTime":2126.34,"body":"were 17 states in the United"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2122.2,"endTime":2126.34,"body":"States that had put forth either"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2126.34,"endTime":2129.76,"body":"an anti Sharia or an anti hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2126.34,"endTime":2129.76,"body":"ban. And the Sharia was almost"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2129.76,"endTime":2133.75,"body":"always tied to these ideas of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2129.76,"endTime":2133.75,"body":"jihad and hijab, like visible"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2133.75,"endTime":2138.1,"body":"Muslim notice. So I want y'all"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2133.75,"endTime":2138.1,"body":"to hear that getting hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2138.1,"endTime":2143.02,"body":"wrong. Getting why people cover"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2138.1,"endTime":2143.02,"body":"wrong is not just annoying,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2143.02,"endTime":2146.56,"body":"because it's like, bad"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2143.02,"endTime":2146.56,"body":"interpersonal, or like bad"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2146.56,"endTime":2150.43,"body":"interfaith politics. It has"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2146.56,"endTime":2150.43,"body":"legal and physical and violent"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2150.46,"endTime":2155.68,"body":"ramifications specifically"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2150.46,"endTime":2155.68,"body":"written on the bodies of women"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2155.68,"endTime":2161.17,"body":"identifying Muslims. Thanks, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2155.68,"endTime":2161.17,"body":"hate it. So I think I also want"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2161.17,"endTime":2164.11,"body":"to just say, like when we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2161.17,"endTime":2164.11,"body":"politicize this garment, it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2164.11,"endTime":2167.26,"body":"bad news, right? But you're also"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2164.11,"endTime":2167.26,"body":"incorrect to think that Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2167.26,"endTime":2170.95,"body":"and women and femmes are just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2167.26,"endTime":2170.95,"body":"like being herded. There's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2170.95,"endTime":2175.06,"body":"protests and demonstrations,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2170.95,"endTime":2175.06,"body":"both against hijab bans or in a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2175.06,"endTime":2179.5,"body":"cab bands, but also against"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2175.06,"endTime":2179.5,"body":"hijab and niqab mandates. There"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2179.5,"endTime":2182.17,"body":"are moments of solidarity"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2179.5,"endTime":2182.17,"body":"between and among Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2182.17,"endTime":2185.68,"body":"communities. I think there are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2182.17,"endTime":2185.68,"body":"some ill advised hitch like what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2185.68,"endTime":2187.63,"body":"is it like to wear hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2185.68,"endTime":2187.63,"body":"solidarity white women"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2187.63,"endTime":2189.34,"body":"movements? Like I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2187.63,"endTime":2189.34,"body":"problem, but that's like a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2189.34,"endTime":2192.7,"body":"separate issue. There are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2189.34,"endTime":2192.7,"body":"conversations about how and when"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2192.7,"endTime":2196.57,"body":"and why one might cover so quite"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2192.7,"endTime":2196.57,"body":"a lot of my students make that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2196.57,"endTime":2201.16,"body":"choice based on situations, but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2196.57,"endTime":2201.16,"body":"reducing Muslim women to a hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2201.16,"endTime":2204.52,"body":"and then calling that hijab"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2201.16,"endTime":2204.52,"body":"oppressive or backward, is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2205.33,"endTime":2211.63,"body":"incorrect. And it's racist as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2205.33,"endTime":2211.63,"body":"fuck. And it authorizes violence"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2211.63,"endTime":2217.42,"body":"like the entire war on terror. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2211.63,"endTime":2217.42,"body":"hate it, as you should. So stop"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2217.42,"endTime":2220.6,"body":"emailing us about it. We're sick"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2217.42,"endTime":2220.6,"body":"of it."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2220.9,"endTime":2222.79,"body":"We are we're very tired"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2220.9,"endTime":2222.79,"body":"and sweaty."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2224.32,"endTime":2227.65,"body":"Don't pack up yet nerds."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2224.32,"endTime":2227.65,"body":"You got homework. Don't work."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2227.77,"endTime":2231.31,"body":"Why don't work. All right. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2227.77,"endTime":2231.31,"body":"we've got a convert, like the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2231.31,"endTime":2235.21,"body":"conversation has a podcast on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2231.31,"endTime":2235.21,"body":"NiCad bans in Canada, and how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2235.21,"endTime":2239.53,"body":"those bands are tied directly to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2235.21,"endTime":2239.53,"body":"Islamophobic hate crimes. So we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2239.53,"endTime":2242.23,"body":"are linking up the law and the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2239.53,"endTime":2242.23,"body":"violence right off the bat. It's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2242.23,"endTime":2245.08,"body":"a pretty good podcast. There's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2242.23,"endTime":2245.08,"body":"lot of news that I'll put in the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2245.08,"endTime":2248.2,"body":"show notes also. But book wise,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2245.08,"endTime":2248.2,"body":"we want to recommend where we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2248.2,"endTime":2251.65,"body":"started Liz view cars. Pious"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2248.2,"endTime":2251.65,"body":"fashion is a really great book"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2251.65,"endTime":2254.44,"body":"with Harvard University Press."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2251.65,"endTime":2254.44,"body":"And then she's got a ton of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2254.44,"endTime":2258.22,"body":"related public scholarship."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2254.44,"endTime":2258.22,"body":"There's a podcast with Building"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2258.22,"endTime":2261.94,"body":"Bridges out of Georgetown, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2258.22,"endTime":2261.94,"body":"that's really listened to and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2261.94,"endTime":2265.93,"body":"very very assignable. And Liz"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2261.94,"endTime":2265.93,"body":"also has a an article called"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2265.96,"endTime":2269.65,"body":"Dear Nancy Pelosi hijab is not a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2265.96,"endTime":2269.65,"body":"hat, which I find very cheeky."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2270.67,"endTime":2276.76,"body":"There is Sahar mares. What is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2270.67,"endTime":2276.76,"body":"veiling? Which is a book from"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2276.76,"endTime":2281.05,"body":"UNC press, super easy to read,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2276.76,"endTime":2281.05,"body":"very consumable for the public."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2282.13,"endTime":2286.03,"body":"James libeled and Timothy gross"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2282.13,"endTime":2286.03,"body":"have a really important book on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2286.06,"endTime":2289.09,"body":"Islamic veiling and shinjang."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2286.06,"endTime":2289.09,"body":"The political and societal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2289.09,"endTime":2292.09,"body":"struggle to define Uighur female"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2289.09,"endTime":2292.09,"body":"adornment. Sorry, that's an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2292.15,"endTime":2297.34,"body":"article not a book but the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2292.15,"endTime":2297.34,"body":"Chinese government is doing an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2297.34,"endTime":2301.27,"body":"ethnic cleansing of Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2297.34,"endTime":2301.27,"body":"leader is on is barring Muslims"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2301.27,"endTime":2304.6,"body":"from wearing head coverings."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2301.27,"endTime":2304.6,"body":"These are all related things so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2304.6,"endTime":2309.55,"body":"I want you to get a big picture."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2304.6,"endTime":2309.55,"body":"And then there's a flock as your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2309.55,"endTime":2313.15,"body":"Aziz article, the veiling issue"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2309.55,"endTime":2313.15,"body":"in 20th century Iran and fashion"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2313.15,"endTime":2315.46,"body":"and society religion and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2313.15,"endTime":2315.46,"body":"government. So we're thinking"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2315.46,"endTime":2319.15,"body":"about it as fashion. And then"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2315.46,"endTime":2319.15,"body":"there's the classic Houma hood"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2319.15,"endTime":2322.39,"body":"Farr's the veil in their minds"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2319.15,"endTime":2322.39,"body":"and on our heads the persistence"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2322.39,"endTime":2326.56,"body":"of colonial images of Muslim"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2322.39,"endTime":2326.56,"body":"women. It's old, but it's great."},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2326.62,"endTime":2331.03,"body":"Yep. And then my favorite media"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2326.62,"endTime":2331.03,"body":"for you is rap my hijab. Hadar"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2331.72,"endTime":2338.14,"body":"she's a she's like a cool music"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2331.72,"endTime":2338.14,"body":"artist slash rappers. Yeah. What"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2338.14,"endTime":2339.31,"body":"do you got Meghan? Anything."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2339.64,"endTime":2341.59,"body":"I mean, I'm just like,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2339.64,"endTime":2341.59,"body":"I'm excited about the video. I"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2341.59,"endTime":2344.41,"body":"use it in class and you just get"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2341.59,"endTime":2344.41,"body":"a sense of how many different"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2344.41,"endTime":2347.68,"body":"ways there are to cover and"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2344.41,"endTime":2347.68,"body":"who's covering and again, just"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2347.68,"endTime":2350.5,"body":"the like, beautiful fashion of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2347.68,"endTime":2350.5,"body":"it rather than just having it"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2350.53,"endTime":2354.82,"body":"reduced to kind of dour modesty,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2350.53,"endTime":2354.82,"body":"like, No, these are gorgeous,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2354.82,"endTime":2359.02,"body":"gorgeous people. So Kayla"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2354.82,"endTime":2359.02,"body":"Wheeler did some amazing writing"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2359.05,"endTime":2362.41,"body":"about Black Muslim women's pious"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2359.05,"endTime":2362.41,"body":"fashion first Pella square, I"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2362.41,"endTime":2366.1,"body":"will get you a link for that. We"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2362.41,"endTime":2366.1,"body":"together wrote a piece for"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2366.1,"endTime":2369.7,"body":"Religion Dispatches about a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2366.1,"endTime":2369.7,"body":"stars and Stripe hijab on"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2369.7,"endTime":2374.23,"body":"ripples drag race and well the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2369.7,"endTime":2374.23,"body":"racism that happened after that."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2374.98,"endTime":2378.46,"body":"Which reveals as the title says,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2374.98,"endTime":2378.46,"body":"America's troubling relationship"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2378.46,"endTime":2383.23,"body":"to gender ethnicity and that in"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2378.46,"endTime":2383.23,"body":"quotes, religion. Jeff Goldblum"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2383.26,"endTime":2388.15,"body":"did a racism to our girl Jackie"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2383.26,"endTime":2388.15,"body":"and we did not like it so you"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2388.15,"endTime":2392.23,"body":"can read us yelling about that."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2388.15,"endTime":2392.23,"body":"I have a piece in what we both"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2392.23,"endTime":2395.05,"body":"have pieces in Tina. Hell is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2392.23,"endTime":2395.05,"body":"great Routledge Handbook of"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2395.05,"endTime":2398.62,"body":"Islam and gender. But my piece"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2395.05,"endTime":2398.62,"body":"on gender, race and American"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2398.62,"endTime":2403.48,"body":"Islamophobia specifically talk"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2398.62,"endTime":2403.48,"body":"about an image of a Muslim woman"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2403.48,"endTime":2407.89,"body":"covering being used to protest"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2403.48,"endTime":2407.89,"body":"the inauguration of the 45th."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2407.89,"endTime":2410.59,"body":"President, it showed up in the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2407.89,"endTime":2410.59,"body":"Washington Post. She is wearing"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2410.59,"endTime":2415.09,"body":"a Stars and Stripes her job, it"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2410.59,"endTime":2415.09,"body":"was presented as like a bastion"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2415.12,"endTime":2419.41,"body":"of liberal values. And I'm using"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2415.12,"endTime":2419.41,"body":"liberal here very deliberately."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2419.77,"endTime":2423.31,"body":"And a lot of folks were"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2419.77,"endTime":2423.31,"body":"concerned about the American"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2423.31,"endTime":2426.49,"body":"imperialism of that image. So"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2423.31,"endTime":2426.49,"body":"and Shepard Fairey basically"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2429.7,"endTime":2432.97,"body":"didn't care and isn't Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2429.7,"endTime":2432.97,"body":"great. So anyway, that's in the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2432.97,"endTime":2436.63,"body":"article. And then I also have a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2432.97,"endTime":2436.63,"body":"piece in the Journal of the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2436.63,"endTime":2439.66,"body":"American Academy of Religion"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2436.63,"endTime":2439.66,"body":"called unmasking Islamophobia,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2439.66,"endTime":2444.01,"body":"anti Muslim hostility and as"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2439.66,"endTime":2444.01,"body":"white supremacy in the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2444.04,"endTime":2448.36,"body":"roundtable that Laura Mackay"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2444.04,"endTime":2448.36,"body":"edited that came out of our AR"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2449.62,"endTime":2452.11,"body":"roundtable and Judith Watson"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2449.62,"endTime":2452.11,"body":"falsework. But I was"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2452.11,"endTime":2454.72,"body":"specifically in that piece"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2452.11,"endTime":2454.72,"body":"looking at anti Klan anti"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2454.72,"endTime":2460.0,"body":"masking laws in Georgia. And the"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2454.72,"endTime":2460.0,"body":"way that local lawmakers were"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2460.0,"endTime":2464.56,"body":"trying to use them to basically"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2460.0,"endTime":2464.56,"body":"make it harder for Muslim women"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2464.56,"endTime":2470.44,"body":"who cover to be in public. So"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2464.56,"endTime":2470.44,"body":"spoilers, but the way that these"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2470.44,"endTime":2473.2,"body":"laws were trying to be written,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2470.44,"endTime":2473.2,"body":"it would have been fine to drive"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2473.2,"endTime":2475.39,"body":"around dressed as Santa Claus,"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2473.2,"endTime":2475.39,"body":"even if your whole face is"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2475.39,"endTime":2479.26,"body":"covered, but not if you're a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2475.39,"endTime":2479.26,"body":"Muslim woman engaging in a pious"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2479.26,"endTime":2482.89,"body":"fashion. So everybody loves"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2479.26,"endTime":2482.89,"body":"Santa. Everybody loves Santa."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2482.89,"endTime":2486.46,"body":"It's fine. It's not fine. Demon"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2482.89,"endTime":2486.46,"body":"Klaus. Anyway,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2487.12,"endTime":2489.85,"body":"shout out to EV Wolf,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2487.12,"endTime":2489.85,"body":"Rachel's IEF and Juliana Finch"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2489.85,"endTime":2492.67,"body":"the key I want to one team whose"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2489.85,"endTime":2492.67,"body":"work makes his pa accessible and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2492.67,"endTime":2495.43,"body":"therefore awesome listenable"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2492.67,"endTime":2495.43,"body":"social media mobile among many"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2495.43,"endTime":2496.96,"body":"other things for which we are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse","startTime":2495.43,"endTime":2496.96,"body":"grateful."},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2497.29,"endTime":2501.34,"body":"Sure, you can find Meghan"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2497.29,"endTime":2501.34,"body":"that's me on Twitter at mpg PhD"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2501.37,"endTime":2505.93,"body":"and Elise at pr o f IR M F. You"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2501.37,"endTime":2505.93,"body":"can also find the show at"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2505.93,"endTime":2509.86,"body":"keeping it underscore 101 Find"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2505.93,"endTime":2509.86,"body":"the website at keeping it one on"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2509.86,"endTime":2512.92,"body":"one.com Peep the Insta if you"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2509.86,"endTime":2512.92,"body":"want to check us out on tick"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2512.92,"endTime":2515.68,"body":"tock I guess and drop us a"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2512.92,"endTime":2515.68,"body":"rating or review in your pod"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2515.68,"endTime":2520.36,"body":"catcher of choice with that"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2515.68,"endTime":2520.36,"body":"peace out nerds Your Honor, it's"},{"speaker":"Megan","startTime":2520.36,"endTime":2521.05,"body":"on the syllabus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2548.08,"endTime":2549.4,"body":"don't don't make you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2548.08,"endTime":2549.4,"body":"sweat"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.61,"endTime":2553.27,"body":"don't feel too tight your wit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.61,"endTime":2553.27,"body":"your hair dryer that your hair"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2554.08,"endTime":2555.49,"body":"how long your hair is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2555.49,"endTime":2559.06,"body":"you need to get your life you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2555.49,"endTime":2559.06,"body":"only see your uncle steady"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.09,"endTime":2562.66,"body":"working let dental you pop in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.09,"endTime":2562.66,"body":"and run your mouth like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.66,"endTime":2565.36,"body":"trend. Don't let your exotic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.66,"endTime":2565.36,"body":"vacation number with your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.36,"endTime":2566.71,"body":"fascination no need that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2566.71,"endTime":2569.53,"body":"paper paper paper if you want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2566.71,"endTime":2569.53,"body":"education"}]}