{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":17.58,"endTime":19.14,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":17.58,"endTime":19.14,"body":"is keeping it 101, a killjoys"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":19.14,"endTime":21.68,"body":"introduction to religion"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":19.14,"endTime":21.68,"body":"podcast, which is part of the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":21.68,"endTime":24.86,"body":"amplify podcast network, we are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":21.68,"endTime":24.86,"body":"grateful to live teach and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":24.86,"endTime":28.04,"body":"record on the current ancestral"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":24.86,"endTime":28.04,"body":"and unceded lands of the Abenaki"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":28.04,"endTime":31.28,"body":"and Wabanaki peoples, as well as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":28.04,"endTime":31.28,"body":"the lands of the one federally"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":31.28,"endTime":34.28,"body":"recognized native nation, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":31.28,"endTime":34.28,"body":"Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":34.52,"endTime":37.58,"body":"and seven North Carolina state"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":34.52,"endTime":37.58,"body":"recognized tribal entities."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":37.94,"endTime":40.16,"body":"Increasingly, though, native"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":37.94,"endTime":40.16,"body":"folks are pushing us to forgo"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":40.16,"endTime":43.48,"body":"land acknowledgements altogether"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":40.16,"endTime":43.48,"body":"and focus on action items. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":43.48,"endTime":47.02,"body":"with that land back and also"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":43.48,"endTime":47.02,"body":"ways, you can find material ways"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":47.02,"endTime":49.48,"body":"to support indigenous"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":47.02,"endTime":49.48,"body":"communities on our website."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":50.68,"endTime":53.38,"body":"What's up? Nerds?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":50.68,"endTime":53.38,"body":"Hi, hello. I'm Megan Goodwin, a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":53.38,"endTime":56.56,"body":"scholar of American religions,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":53.38,"endTime":56.56,"body":"race, gender and politics."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":56.0,"endTime":58.4,"body":"Hi,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":56.0,"endTime":58.4,"body":"hello. I'm Ilyse Morgenstein"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":58.4,"endTime":61.7,"body":"Fuerst, a historian of religion,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":58.4,"endTime":61.7,"body":"Islam, race and racialization"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":61.73,"endTime":62.96,"body":"and South Asia."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":63.53,"endTime":69.68,"body":"Goodwin, hi, hello. I'm so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":63.53,"endTime":69.68,"body":"excited to be back today."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":71.06,"endTime":73.13,"body":"Hi, hello to you."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":71.06,"endTime":73.13,"body":"Why are you so chipper?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":73.31,"endTime":75.23,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":73.31,"endTime":75.23,"body":"know, teaching folks about how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":75.23,"endTime":77.87,"body":"the adoption industry works,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":75.23,"endTime":77.87,"body":"because it is an industry, dear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":77.87,"endTime":81.38,"body":"nerds, is a major and how it's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":77.87,"endTime":81.38,"body":"major religious freedom issue."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":81.38,"endTime":84.29,"body":"It just like, I don't know, it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":81.38,"endTime":84.29,"body":"just like, does something for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":84.29,"endTime":84.44,"body":"me!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":86.54,"endTime":89.3,"body":"alarmed,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":86.54,"endTime":89.3,"body":"disturbed, but also intrigued."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":89.36,"endTime":90.44,"body":"Pretty continue."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":90.86,"endTime":92.48,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":90.86,"endTime":92.48,"body":"I should hope so."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":94.58,"endTime":96.5,"body":"All right. So if"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":94.58,"endTime":96.5,"body":"you're playing along at home, we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":96.5,"endTime":99.2,"body":"are in the middle of a four part"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":96.5,"endTime":99.2,"body":"series on adoption and religion."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":99.5,"endTime":103.24,"body":"This is part two, if you want"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":99.5,"endTime":103.24,"body":"what has been described as,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":103.3,"endTime":107.44,"body":"quote, deeply fucked up personal"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":103.3,"endTime":107.44,"body":"stories and lots of food for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":107.44,"endTime":110.62,"body":"thought, overviews about what"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":107.44,"endTime":110.62,"body":"adoption is and how a few"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":110.62,"endTime":113.26,"body":"religions imagine adoption, go"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":110.62,"endTime":113.26,"body":"check out part one."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":114.2,"endTime":115.67,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":114.2,"endTime":115.67,"body":"there's just so much to say"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":115.67,"endTime":118.97,"body":"about adoption and religion and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":115.67,"endTime":118.97,"body":"again, trigger warning. A lot of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":118.97,"endTime":121.76,"body":"this is just fucked up. I don't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":118.97,"endTime":121.76,"body":"know how else to say it. If"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":121.76,"endTime":124.67,"body":"these are hard issues for you,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":121.76,"endTime":124.67,"body":"a, of all, welcome to The Club,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":124.67,"endTime":128.24,"body":"and B, of all, feel free to tap"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":124.67,"endTime":128.24,"body":"out. We're going to keep going,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":128.24,"endTime":134.15,"body":"because we can and do think"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":128.24,"endTime":134.15,"body":"about and do hard things, but we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":134.18,"endTime":138.23,"body":"can't go back and repeat. We"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":134.18,"endTime":138.23,"body":"haven't the time. This time"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":138.23,"endTime":141.02,"body":"around, we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":138.23,"endTime":141.02,"body":"religious freedom and adoption,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":141.02,"endTime":143.45,"body":"citing themes and lawsuits"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":141.02,"endTime":143.45,"body":"mostly, but with this central"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":143.45,"endTime":147.56,"body":"point, adoption is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":143.45,"endTime":147.56,"body":"inextricable from every other"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":147.56,"endTime":151.79,"body":"social system, included, but not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":147.56,"endTime":151.79,"body":"limited to religion, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":151.85,"endTime":156.35,"body":"importantly, modern adoption is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":151.85,"endTime":156.35,"body":"rooted in really, really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":156.35,"endTime":159.38,"body":"troubling notions of Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":156.35,"endTime":159.38,"body":"imperialism and supremacy."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":159.77,"endTime":162.29,"body":"Yeah, that that's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":159.77,"endTime":162.29,"body":"the part that usually makes"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":162.29,"endTime":166.34,"body":"people wild. So let's, let's say"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":162.29,"endTime":166.34,"body":"a little more, and then get to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":166.34,"endTime":169.55,"body":"the cases. Ilyse?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":170.3,"endTime":170.87,"body":"yes,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":170.3,"endTime":170.87,"body":"dear?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":173.12,"endTime":176.39,"body":"my beloved, no"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":173.12,"endTime":176.39,"body":"one has ever accused you of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":176.42,"endTime":179.09,"body":"ignoring or downplaying"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":176.42,"endTime":179.09,"body":"imperialism."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":179.54,"endTime":180.47,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":179.54,"endTime":180.47,"body":"is correct."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":181.01,"endTime":184.61,"body":"But I thought"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":181.01,"endTime":184.61,"body":"adoption was this nice thing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":184.61,"endTime":186.53,"body":"that nice people do when they"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":184.61,"endTime":186.53,"body":"can't have children"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":186.53,"endTime":189.68,"body":"biologically, or they want to do"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":186.53,"endTime":189.68,"body":"something kind, or they identify"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":189.68,"endTime":193.58,"body":"with the plight of a parentless"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":189.68,"endTime":193.58,"body":"child or bear, or they do the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":193.58,"endTime":196.49,"body":"math about what happens when"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":193.58,"endTime":196.49,"body":"children age out of foster care"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":196.49,"endTime":199.31,"body":"systems. Surely that is not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":196.49,"endTime":199.31,"body":"white Christian imperialism."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":201.62,"endTime":202.79,"body":"Well--"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":202.97,"endTime":206.96,"body":"um, how, why?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":202.97,"endTime":206.96,"body":"How. How is this white Christian"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":206.96,"endTime":207.77,"body":"imperialism"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":209.6,"endTime":211.82,"body":"look?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":209.6,"endTime":211.82,"body":"We already said last time that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":211.82,"endTime":214.01,"body":"the narratives of adoption"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":211.82,"endTime":214.01,"body":"include major themes of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":214.04,"endTime":218.81,"body":"saviorism, the good parent"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":214.04,"endTime":218.81,"body":"taking in an unwanted bastard"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":218.81,"endTime":223.52,"body":"child or an unfortunate one or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":218.81,"endTime":223.52,"body":"one whose circumstances are ill"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":223.52,"endTime":224.15,"body":"suited"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":224.78,"endTime":229.82,"body":"hmm. We did say"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":224.78,"endTime":229.82,"body":"that I also, when I express my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":229.82,"endTime":233.42,"body":"admiration and appreciation for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":229.82,"endTime":233.42,"body":"how often you've worked bastard"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":233.42,"endTime":236.48,"body":"into this conversation, it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":233.42,"endTime":236.48,"body":"really, it's great chef's kiss."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":236.99,"endTime":239.27,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":236.99,"endTime":239.27,"body":"just, I really like when a swear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":239.27,"endTime":243.65,"body":"is actually just descriptive,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":239.27,"endTime":243.65,"body":"yeah, like, this is a word that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":243.65,"endTime":247.34,"body":"has legal ramifications. It's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":243.65,"endTime":247.34,"body":"important to me that we know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":247.34,"endTime":251.93,"body":"that bastard and illegitimate"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":247.34,"endTime":251.93,"body":"are legal classifications, so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":251.93,"endTime":256.7,"body":"I'm going to use it. If you're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":251.93,"endTime":256.7,"body":"too prim to hear that, then I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":256.7,"endTime":258.8,"body":"suspect this is not the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":256.7,"endTime":258.8,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":259.59,"endTime":262.47,"body":"Any idea where this"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":259.59,"endTime":262.47,"body":"bastard lives, whose parents"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":262.47,"endTime":265.11,"body":"aren't married? Are they? It's a"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":262.47,"endTime":265.11,"body":"correct word, isn't it, because"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":265.11,"endTime":268.95,"body":"he's got us there. Bastard,"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":265.11,"endTime":268.95,"body":"bastard,bastard, bastard,"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":268.95,"endTime":272.22,"body":"bastard, bastard, bastard."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":272.28,"endTime":274.83,"body":"Look,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":272.28,"endTime":274.83,"body":"I want to, I want to be clear,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":274.83,"endTime":279.6,"body":"we can talk about narratives of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":274.83,"endTime":279.6,"body":"adoption and white Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":279.63,"endTime":284.37,"body":"imperialism without pretending"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":279.63,"endTime":284.37,"body":"that there are, in fact, a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":284.49,"endTime":288.9,"body":"metric ton of children growing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":284.49,"endTime":288.9,"body":"up in absolutely unacceptable"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":288.9,"endTime":295.71,"body":"conditions where abuse is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":288.9,"endTime":295.71,"body":"rampant. But that logic, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":295.71,"endTime":300.03,"body":"Christian imperious logic, that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":295.71,"endTime":300.03,"body":"a good person saves a child and."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":300.03,"endTime":303.6,"body":"Child should be absolutely"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":300.03,"endTime":303.6,"body":"grateful, and nothing else."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":304.5,"endTime":309.27,"body":"Well, it has a lot of Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":304.5,"endTime":309.27,"body":"stuff going on, yeah, not even"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":309.27,"endTime":311.61,"body":"undertones. These are just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":309.27,"endTime":311.61,"body":"statements. This is a Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":311.61,"endTime":315.45,"body":"idea, and its implementation has"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":311.61,"endTime":315.45,"body":"been really troubling and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":315.45,"endTime":319.29,"body":"frankly, genocidal under very"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":315.45,"endTime":319.29,"body":"particular white Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":319.29,"endTime":320.85,"body":"imperialist regimes. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":321.17,"endTime":323.0,"body":"I'm gonna, I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":321.17,"endTime":323.0,"body":"gonna play the straight man for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":323.0,"endTime":326.66,"body":"once. How so tough. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":323.0,"endTime":326.66,"body":"I'm just trying on. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":326.66,"endTime":330.23,"body":"feel right. I don't like it. How"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":326.66,"endTime":330.23,"body":"so? How could, how could that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":330.23,"endTime":330.62,"body":"be?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":331.58,"endTime":333.59,"body":"I feel"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":331.58,"endTime":333.59,"body":"like we're gonna deep dive into"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":333.59,"endTime":337.37,"body":"that. But for the sake of, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":333.59,"endTime":337.37,"body":"avoiding monologs, what makes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":337.4,"endTime":341.45,"body":"let's, let's do this. Let's do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":337.4,"endTime":341.45,"body":"some banter. All right, Megan,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":341.48,"endTime":343.67,"body":"what an unfit parent."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":345.56,"endTime":350.09,"body":"How much time do"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":345.56,"endTime":350.09,"body":"you have? Sorry, we're not not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":350.09,"endTime":353.63,"body":"making jokes about my mom this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":350.09,"endTime":353.63,"body":"whole time, though. Anyway, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":353.63,"endTime":358.91,"body":"would, I would hope that abuse"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":353.63,"endTime":358.91,"body":"factors into who gets qualified"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":358.91,"endTime":359.87,"body":"as an unfit parent."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":360.38,"endTime":364.76,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":360.38,"endTime":364.76,"body":"One would hope that Megan, how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":364.76,"endTime":369.08,"body":"do you know what abuse is? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":364.76,"endTime":369.08,"body":"scholar of religious abuse,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":369.08,"endTime":372.92,"body":"whose first book is literally"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":369.08,"endTime":372.92,"body":"titled abusing religion,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":372.24,"endTime":375.026,"body":"I knew you were"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":372.24,"endTime":375.026,"body":"gonna do this shit to me. Fine."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":372.99,"endTime":420.24,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":372.99,"endTime":420.24,"body":"you know, do your list. I won't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":375.086,"endTime":378.525,"body":"All right, fine. All right,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":375.086,"endTime":378.525,"body":"that's the big question. And I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":378.584,"endTime":381.845,"body":"want you to know that in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":378.584,"endTime":381.845,"body":"compiling this list, I did not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":381.905,"endTime":385.403,"body":"actually review my sources for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":381.905,"endTime":385.403,"body":"abusing religion. I mentally"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":385.462,"endTime":388.664,"body":"went over things I know that I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":385.462,"endTime":388.664,"body":"and other folks I loved"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":388.724,"endTime":391.688,"body":"survived. Yeah, so major"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":388.724,"endTime":391.688,"body":"doglevich moment, you are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":391.748,"endTime":395.068,"body":"welcome moving on. I think a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":391.748,"endTime":395.068,"body":"working definition of abuse"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":395.128,"endTime":398.685,"body":"needs to include physical or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":395.128,"endTime":398.685,"body":"psychological harm or violence,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":398.745,"endTime":402.124,"body":"which includes, but is not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":398.745,"endTime":402.124,"body":"limited to sexual violence and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":402.184,"endTime":404.733,"body":"harm, deprivation and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":402.184,"endTime":404.733,"body":"withholding. So, food"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":404.793,"endTime":408.173,"body":"insecurity, housing insecurity,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":404.793,"endTime":408.173,"body":"financial insecurity, for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":408.232,"endTime":411.671,"body":"collect force, yes, forced or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":408.232,"endTime":411.671,"body":"not? Forced, well, so forced"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":411.73,"endTime":415.347,"body":"deprivation, forced withholding,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":411.73,"endTime":415.347,"body":"intentional. I'm only asking"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":415.407,"endTime":419.38,"body":"because it's well, because we're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":415.407,"endTime":419.38,"body":"going to come back to that, right?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":420.24,"endTime":424.17,"body":"interrupt. I got excited about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":420.24,"endTime":424.17,"body":"abuse. I guess that's upsetting."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":424.26,"endTime":426.36,"body":"Yeah, that's the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":424.26,"endTime":426.36,"body":"weird space that I occupy where"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":426.72,"endTime":429.84,"body":"let's talk about it. It's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":426.72,"endTime":429.84,"body":"terrible. It should be the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":429.84,"endTime":435.9,"body":"tagline of our podcast, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":429.84,"endTime":435.9,"body":"So intentional, deliberate, not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":435.9,"endTime":440.28,"body":"forced, deprivation, withholding"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":435.9,"endTime":440.28,"body":"of food, housing, resources,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":440.28,"endTime":445.28,"body":"money, any of that intentional"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":440.28,"endTime":445.28,"body":"neglect, isolation, again,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":445.28,"endTime":449.6,"body":"intentionally keeping your child"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":445.28,"endTime":449.6,"body":"away from other people who care"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":449.6,"endTime":455.54,"body":"about that child, coercion, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":449.6,"endTime":455.54,"body":"for me, it's a lot about not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":455.66,"endTime":458.42,"body":"having any other options. So no"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":455.66,"endTime":458.42,"body":"reasonable right of exit, no way"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":458.42,"endTime":459.86,"body":"to get out of that situation."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":459.0,"endTime":463.47,"body":"Now,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":459.0,"endTime":463.47,"body":"all of those things are that's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":463.47,"endTime":467.43,"body":"like a really robust list, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":463.47,"endTime":467.43,"body":"they all sound like scenarios in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":467.43,"endTime":471.03,"body":"which we would want someone,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":467.43,"endTime":471.03,"body":"whether that's the state or our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":471.03,"endTime":474.12,"body":"communities, our extended"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":471.03,"endTime":474.12,"body":"families, you name it, to step"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":474.12,"endTime":477.42,"body":"in. We don't want. We should not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":474.12,"endTime":477.42,"body":"want. Frankly, I don't want a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":477.42,"endTime":481.23,"body":"listener who thinks that any of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":477.42,"endTime":481.23,"body":"those are tolerable. I want that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":481.23,"endTime":484.92,"body":"for any of us, especially"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":481.23,"endTime":484.92,"body":"children, historically, one of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":484.92,"endTime":486.51,"body":"the most vulnerable populations."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":486.54,"endTime":489.66,"body":"Yeah, right. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":486.54,"endTime":489.66,"body":"in in a world where it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":489.66,"endTime":493.2,"body":"possible for institutions to act"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":489.66,"endTime":493.2,"body":"benevolent, benevolently, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":493.2,"endTime":495.63,"body":"sure, it would be great to have"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":493.2,"endTime":495.63,"body":"someone, or someone's ride to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":495.63,"endTime":498.93,"body":"the rescue of abused children."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":495.63,"endTime":498.93,"body":"It would be great to have like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":498.93,"endTime":506.01,"body":"an abuse cavalry. But knowing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":498.93,"endTime":506.01,"body":"your love of the Beastie boy is,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":506.01,"endTime":510.21,"body":"I can sense that you're about to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":506.01,"endTime":510.21,"body":"let the Beat Drop."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":511.32,"endTime":513.0,"body":"Could"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":511.32,"endTime":513.0,"body":"you imagine not feeding your own"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":513.0,"endTime":517.44,"body":"child as abuse, or not allowing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":513.0,"endTime":517.44,"body":"them to see relatives or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":517.44,"endTime":521.73,"body":"participating in school events?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":517.44,"endTime":521.73,"body":"Would abuse entail teaching"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":521.73,"endTime":525.66,"body":"children to do crimes. For"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":521.73,"endTime":525.66,"body":"example, could you imagine abuse"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":525.66,"endTime":528.24,"body":"being defined as raising your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":525.66,"endTime":528.24,"body":"child within a belief system"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":528.24,"endTime":532.56,"body":"where right and want wrong are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":528.24,"endTime":532.56,"body":"so warped, so troubling that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":532.56,"endTime":536.01,"body":"someone has to step in? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":532.56,"endTime":536.01,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":536.13,"endTime":537.81,"body":"I mean, all of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":536.13,"endTime":537.81,"body":"that sounds really harmful. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":537.81,"endTime":541.86,"body":"yeah, I would, I would say that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":537.81,"endTime":541.86,"body":"sounds like abuse, and these are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":541.89,"endTime":544.62,"body":"not thought experiments. We know"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":541.89,"endTime":544.62,"body":"that parents and guardians"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":544.62,"endTime":548.64,"body":"engage in behaviors like food"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":544.62,"endTime":548.64,"body":"withholding, which is so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":548.64,"endTime":551.88,"body":"prevalent actually, that the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":548.64,"endTime":551.88,"body":"Food and Drug Administration in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":551.88,"endTime":555.42,"body":"the US has policies about it. In"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":551.88,"endTime":555.42,"body":"fucking schools. It is a matter"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":555.42,"endTime":560.01,"body":"of state law definitions of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":555.42,"endTime":560.01,"body":"abuse and neglect, which is not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":560.01,"endTime":564.15,"body":"a thing I knew before today, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":560.01,"endTime":564.15,"body":"I hate it. I hate it. I hate it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":564.18,"endTime":568.68,"body":"Kids should get to eat. Feed"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":564.18,"endTime":568.68,"body":"kids, is how I feel about that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":569.4,"endTime":572.76,"body":"Other behaviors that sound like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":569.4,"endTime":572.76,"body":"abuse are isolation, and again,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":572.76,"endTime":575.37,"body":"where I want to be very clear"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":572.76,"endTime":575.37,"body":"that we're not talking about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":575.4,"endTime":578.52,"body":"parental alienation, as in the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":575.4,"endTime":578.52,"body":"case of like a Woody Allen,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":578.52,"endTime":581.19,"body":"because that is some self"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":578.52,"endTime":581.19,"body":"published bullshit, non science,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":581.52,"endTime":584.58,"body":"but while cutting family members"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":581.52,"endTime":584.58,"body":"out can be really good and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":584.58,"endTime":586.71,"body":"healthy for children and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":584.58,"endTime":586.71,"body":"families, because some people"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":586.71,"endTime":589.32,"body":"are abusers, they need to be cut"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":586.71,"endTime":589.32,"body":"the fuck out. I say this from"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":589.32,"endTime":593.28,"body":"personal experience, but also"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":589.32,"endTime":593.28,"body":"isolation is part of patterns of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":593.28,"endTime":597.57,"body":"abuse, so disallowing visits"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":593.28,"endTime":597.57,"body":"with like a trusted aunt, or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":597.6,"endTime":600.99,"body":"again, just people who love and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":597.6,"endTime":600.99,"body":"care for that child. And not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":600.99,"endTime":604.17,"body":"letting them see people who love"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":600.99,"endTime":604.17,"body":"and care for your child can be"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":604.17,"endTime":608.46,"body":"abusive. A religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":604.17,"endTime":608.46,"body":"indoctrination is also a place"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":608.46,"endTime":611.97,"body":"where we can see abuse happen."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":608.46,"endTime":611.97,"body":"Like I have said, I will always"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":611.97,"endTime":614.22,"body":"say that religion does not cause"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":611.97,"endTime":614.22,"body":"abuse. That's incorrect, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":614.22,"endTime":617.46,"body":"it's dumb in the face. But I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":614.22,"endTime":617.46,"body":"have said many, many times that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":617.46,"endTime":620.37,"body":"religion can hide abuse, can"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":617.46,"endTime":620.37,"body":"excuse abuse, can make abuse"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":620.37,"endTime":624.51,"body":"harder to spot, make it easier"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":620.37,"endTime":624.51,"body":"for abuse to thrive or survive,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":624.69,"endTime":627.39,"body":"because of how power often works"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":624.69,"endTime":627.39,"body":"in religious institutions and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":627.39,"endTime":631.53,"body":"the space, frankly speaking, of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":627.39,"endTime":631.53,"body":"religious freedom made for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":631.56,"endTime":635.76,"body":"specific, powerful religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":631.56,"endTime":635.76,"body":"institutions to get away with"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":635.76,"endTime":639.69,"body":"abuse. So we have seen, and I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":635.76,"endTime":639.69,"body":"have written about, how the US"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":639.69,"endTime":643.38,"body":"government sometimes finds weird"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":639.69,"endTime":643.38,"body":"cult religions abusive and has"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":643.38,"endTime":644.1,"body":"acted accordingly."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":645.36,"endTime":647.16,"body":"All of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":645.36,"endTime":647.16,"body":"that sounds really plausible."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":647.16,"endTime":651.33,"body":"Goodwin to keep up the Socratic"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":647.16,"endTime":651.33,"body":"kind of thing we've got going"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":651.33,"endTime":655.44,"body":"on. Sure, what if not feeding"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":651.33,"endTime":655.44,"body":"your child? What if food"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":655.44,"endTime":660.84,"body":"withholding is due to chronic un"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":655.44,"endTime":660.84,"body":"or underemployment, say, because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":660.84,"endTime":667.38,"body":"of racist systems that bar black"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":660.84,"endTime":667.38,"body":"or native folk from getting jobs"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":667.83,"endTime":671.7,"body":"or what if it's just plain old"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":667.83,"endTime":671.7,"body":"capitalism's fault. We know the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":671.7,"endTime":675.0,"body":"data in the US, literally in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":671.7,"endTime":675.0,"body":"zero states in the United"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":675.0,"endTime":678.63,"body":"States, can the minimum wage"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":675.0,"endTime":678.63,"body":"support paying rent?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":678.96,"endTime":682.32,"body":"Yeah, and that's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":678.96,"endTime":682.32,"body":"just rent, like, not even just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":682.32,"endTime":684.63,"body":"your rent. That's not even food,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":682.32,"endTime":684.63,"body":"or like, shoes,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":685.2,"endTime":686.79,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":685.2,"endTime":686.79,"body":"we have plenty of working"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":686.79,"endTime":693.81,"body":"parents who are homeless. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":686.79,"endTime":693.81,"body":"Okay, so does that mean that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":693.81,"endTime":696.93,"body":"they're unfit parents because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":693.81,"endTime":696.93,"body":"the bosses are stealing wages,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":697.32,"endTime":702.3,"body":"or what if not seeing relatives"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":697.32,"endTime":702.3,"body":"was because of abuse, like you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":702.3,"endTime":705.0,"body":"had interracial children and one"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":702.3,"endTime":705.0,"body":"of the grandparents are, you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":705.0,"endTime":709.8,"body":"know, basically Klansmen. What"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":705.0,"endTime":709.8,"body":"if the people making the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":709.8,"endTime":715.62,"body":"decisions about what defines"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":709.8,"endTime":715.62,"body":"abuse count raising your child"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":715.62,"endTime":721.86,"body":"to disregard Jesus or believe in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":715.62,"endTime":721.86,"body":"Satan or believe in Muhammad as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":721.95,"endTime":724.2,"body":"unfit, what then?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":725.76,"endTime":727.733,"body":"So I hear you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":725.76,"endTime":727.733,"body":"setting up what sounds"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":727.787,"endTime":730.802,"body":"suspiciously like a gotcha"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":727.787,"endTime":730.802,"body":"moment, because I thought we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":730.857,"endTime":734.31,"body":"were talking about like obvious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":730.857,"endTime":734.31,"body":"abuse, and now you're making it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":734.364,"endTime":737.708,"body":"all complicated. I suspect this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":734.364,"endTime":737.708,"body":"is a fabulous teaching moment"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":737.763,"endTime":740.887,"body":"about whoever gets to define"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":737.763,"endTime":740.887,"body":"what characterizes unsafe or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":740.942,"endTime":744.175,"body":"unfit parents is actually a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":740.942,"endTime":744.175,"body":"question about power, and power"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":744.23,"endTime":745.82,"body":"is never, ever, ever neutral."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":745.82,"endTime":748.216,"body":"Play"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":745.82,"endTime":748.216,"body":"the dings. Megan. [bell dings]"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":748.285,"endTime":752.256,"body":"whoever defines what is an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":748.285,"endTime":752.256,"body":"unsafe home gets to decide what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":752.325,"endTime":756.639,"body":"makes an unfit parent, but they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":752.325,"endTime":756.639,"body":"also get to decide what makes a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":756.707,"endTime":760.953,"body":"safe home and what makes a safe"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":756.707,"endTime":760.953,"body":"parent and for generations and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":761.021,"endTime":765.404,"body":"not like a billion years in the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":761.021,"endTime":765.404,"body":"past, like you and I, Megan, are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":765.472,"endTime":769.238,"body":"old enough to have had our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":765.472,"endTime":769.238,"body":"entire education in a native"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":769.307,"endTime":773.484,"body":"residential school. Had we been"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":769.307,"endTime":773.484,"body":"born to native parents, which"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":773.552,"endTime":777.524,"body":"were utterly famous for this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":773.552,"endTime":777.524,"body":"kind of bait and switch move,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":777.592,"endTime":781.153,"body":"which we're going to get to in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":777.592,"endTime":781.153,"body":"our next episode. For"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":781.221,"endTime":785.535,"body":"generations, white Christians,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":781.221,"endTime":785.535,"body":"holding Imperial or state power,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":785.604,"endTime":789.781,"body":"were allowed to declare that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":785.604,"endTime":789.781,"body":"Muslim, native, Black, Asian, et"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":789.849,"endTime":793.958,"body":"cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":789.849,"endTime":793.958,"body":"cetera. Parents were unfit,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":794.026,"endTime":798.135,"body":"literally, because of their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":794.026,"endTime":798.135,"body":"ethnicity, race and religion. We"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":798.203,"endTime":802.517,"body":"see child removal en masse from"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":798.203,"endTime":802.517,"body":"Native communities, but we also"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":802.586,"endTime":806.626,"body":"see the reassignment of those"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":802.586,"endTime":806.626,"body":"very children to Catholic and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":806.694,"endTime":810.324,"body":"Protestant care with the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":806.694,"endTime":810.324,"body":"explicit stated goal to make"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":810.392,"endTime":813.2,"body":"them civilized, which is to say Christian"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":814.58,"endTime":817.058,"body":"Yeah, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":814.58,"endTime":817.058,"body":"what I hear you saying is that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":817.113,"endTime":820.529,"body":"we cannot talk about adoption,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":817.113,"endTime":820.529,"body":"past or present without talking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":820.584,"endTime":823.834,"body":"about power, and especially"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":820.584,"endTime":823.834,"body":"white Christian power, and this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":823.889,"endTime":827.249,"body":"here, White Christian nation of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":823.889,"endTime":827.249,"body":"ours, being declared an unfit"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":827.304,"endTime":830.664,"body":"parent might mean that the state"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":827.304,"endTime":830.664,"body":"thinks you don't make enough"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":830.719,"endTime":833.914,"body":"money, or you don't make your"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":830.719,"endTime":833.914,"body":"money the right way, or that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":833.969,"endTime":837.109,"body":"you're raising a child to have"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":833.969,"endTime":837.109,"body":"the wrong values, wrong in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":837.164,"endTime":840.304,"body":"quotation marks, again, you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":837.164,"endTime":840.304,"body":"insist on being not white for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":840.359,"endTime":843.609,"body":"some reason while raising a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":840.359,"endTime":843.609,"body":"child, or you have not accepted"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":843.664,"endTime":846.914,"body":"Jesus Christ as your personal"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":843.664,"endTime":846.914,"body":"Lord and Savior. Or maybe you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":846.969,"endTime":850.219,"body":"have actually, but you're doing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":846.969,"endTime":850.219,"body":"it wrong and like I'm being"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":850.274,"endTime":853.854,"body":"snarky here, because I am whomst"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":850.274,"endTime":853.854,"body":"I am. But also this is accurate,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":853.909,"endTime":857.159,"body":"I promise. I'm gonna let you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":853.909,"endTime":857.159,"body":"drive this episode, but I will"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":857.214,"endTime":860.079,"body":"briefly remind our listeners"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":857.214,"endTime":860.079,"body":"that the single largest"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":860.134,"endTime":863.494,"body":"custodial seizure of children in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":860.134,"endTime":863.494,"body":"American history happened in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":863.549,"endTime":866.689,"body":"2008 when the state of Texas"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":863.549,"endTime":866.689,"body":"decided that the practice of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":866.744,"endTime":869.883,"body":"plural marriage, that is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":866.744,"endTime":869.883,"body":"polygyny, marriage of one man to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":869.939,"endTime":873.354,"body":"multiple women, was sufficient"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":869.939,"endTime":873.354,"body":"evidence of abuse, not specific"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":873.409,"endTime":876.549,"body":"cases being reported. The"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":873.409,"endTime":876.549,"body":"practice of polygyny meant that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":876.604,"endTime":880.019,"body":"there must be abuse happening,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":876.604,"endTime":880.019,"body":"that this was an abusive family"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":880.074,"endTime":883.434,"body":"structure. And they, they, they"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":880.074,"endTime":883.434,"body":"scooped up. Sorry, not sorry."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":883.489,"endTime":886.794,"body":"Nearly 400 children from the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":883.489,"endTime":886.794,"body":"FLDS yearning for Zion ranch in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":886.849,"endTime":890.32,"body":"El Dorado. And for more on this,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":886.849,"endTime":890.32,"body":"please see my published works."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":890.32,"endTime":892.825,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":890.32,"endTime":892.825,"body":"you've got it. Look. That's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":892.897,"endTime":897.121,"body":"really brief overview. And I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":892.897,"endTime":897.121,"body":"hope that, I hope a sense that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":897.192,"endTime":901.273,"body":"making decisions about. Can be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":897.192,"endTime":901.273,"body":"allowed to parent or raise"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":901.345,"endTime":905.712,"body":"children is literally anything"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":901.345,"endTime":905.712,"body":"but neutral or clean. So let's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":905.784,"endTime":910.294,"body":"talk about that for the rest of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":905.784,"endTime":910.294,"body":"this meat of the episode, which"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":910.365,"endTime":912.299,"body":"is about religious freedom."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":920.039,"endTime":922.395,"body":"All right, so I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":920.039,"endTime":922.395,"body":"I'm not sure, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":922.456,"endTime":926.082,"body":"religious freedom and adoption"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":922.456,"endTime":926.082,"body":"as an issue would have made a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":926.142,"endTime":929.889,"body":"ton of sense to me years ago,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":926.142,"endTime":929.889,"body":"like, frankly, again, this isn't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":929.949,"endTime":933.394,"body":"something that I encountered"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":929.949,"endTime":933.394,"body":"during any of my coursework,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":933.454,"endTime":937.261,"body":"despite the fact that adoption"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":933.454,"endTime":937.261,"body":"and religion have played such an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":937.322,"endTime":940.706,"body":"important role in US nation"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":937.322,"endTime":940.706,"body":"making but since you've been"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":940.766,"endTime":944.453,"body":"dominating my brains for about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":940.766,"endTime":944.453,"body":"two decades now, let's decades"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":944.513,"endTime":948.199,"body":"now, let's I learned something."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":944.513,"endTime":948.199,"body":"Let me, let me take the lead."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":948.26,"endTime":951.825,"body":"Sure. Bestie, go ahead. Hey,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":948.26,"endTime":951.825,"body":"thanks, Sarah. The thing about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":951.886,"endTime":955.391,"body":"religious freedom is that it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":951.886,"endTime":955.391,"body":"not just an idea. Religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":955.451,"endTime":959.137,"body":"freedom is not a vibe. It is not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":955.451,"endTime":959.137,"body":"as they say, brat. Religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":959.198,"endTime":962.884,"body":"freedom is a legal framework,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":959.198,"endTime":962.884,"body":"not exclusively, but definitely"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":962.945,"endTime":966.691,"body":"within the US. It isn't a hall"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":962.945,"endTime":966.691,"body":"pass to do anything in the name"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":966.752,"endTime":970.196,"body":"of religion, as Mormons learned"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":966.752,"endTime":970.196,"body":"the hard way back in 1878"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":970.257,"endTime":973.822,"body":"Religious freedom is a set of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":970.257,"endTime":973.822,"body":"constitutional protections as"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":973.883,"endTime":977.508,"body":"well as other laws and judicial"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":973.883,"endTime":977.508,"body":"rulings that outline how the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":977.569,"endTime":981.074,"body":"government, the government,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":977.569,"endTime":981.074,"body":"cannot establish a religion or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":981.134,"endTime":984.337,"body":"actively place too heavy a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":981.134,"endTime":984.337,"body":"burden on practitioners to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":984.398,"endTime":988.084,"body":"practice their religion to be"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":984.398,"endTime":988.084,"body":"broad and vague. So we may say,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":988.144,"endTime":991.468,"body":"then that religious freedom is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":988.144,"endTime":991.468,"body":"constitution maxing. But"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":991.528,"endTime":994.973,"body":"frankly, with this white"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":991.528,"endTime":994.973,"body":"Christian activist Supreme Court"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":995.033,"endTime":998.72,"body":"in charge, these protections and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":995.033,"endTime":998.72,"body":"laws are shifting and not in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":998.78,"endTime":1001.5,"body":"ways that we find good. To put"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":998.78,"endTime":1001.5,"body":"it very mildly"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1001.5,"endTime":1004.741,"body":", yeah, yeah. No, freaking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1001.5,"endTime":1004.741,"body":"kidding. Anyway, adoption can be"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1004.796,"endTime":1008.148,"body":"a religious freedom issue for a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1004.796,"endTime":1008.148,"body":"few reasons. Reason The first"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1008.202,"endTime":1011.719,"body":"religions have their own way of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1008.202,"endTime":1011.719,"body":"thinking about orphans, children"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1011.774,"endTime":1014.576,"body":"with their guardians and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1011.774,"endTime":1014.576,"body":"adoption, and those things"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1014.631,"endTime":1018.092,"body":"aren't the same at all. But the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1014.631,"endTime":1018.092,"body":"government, any government, has"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1018.147,"endTime":1021.334,"body":"its own ways of thinking about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1018.147,"endTime":1021.334,"body":"adoption in particular, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1021.389,"endTime":1024.905,"body":"state and religious definitions"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1021.389,"endTime":1024.905,"body":"or legal frameworks often do not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1024.96,"endTime":1025.4,"body":"line up."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1026.779,"endTime":1029.114,"body":"Reason"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1026.779,"endTime":1029.114,"body":"The second is that adoptees do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1029.177,"endTime":1032.838,"body":"not have rights for a billion"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1029.177,"endTime":1032.838,"body":"reasons, but usually because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1032.901,"endTime":1036.309,"body":"they are minors adopted at"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1032.901,"endTime":1036.309,"body":"birth. Great. Your adoptive"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1036.372,"endTime":1039.97,"body":"parents get to name you and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1036.372,"endTime":1039.97,"body":"raise you in the tradition or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1040.033,"endTime":1043.441,"body":"lack of tradition of their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1040.033,"endTime":1043.441,"body":"choice. Adopted as a child,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1043.504,"endTime":1047.165,"body":"doesn't really matter if you had"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1043.504,"endTime":1047.165,"body":"a strong religion before."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1047.228,"endTime":1051.015,"body":"Doesn't matter if you had none"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1047.228,"endTime":1051.015,"body":"legally, your adoptive family"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1051.078,"endTime":1054.802,"body":"controls your religion now, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1051.078,"endTime":1054.802,"body":"there's best practices, but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1054.865,"endTime":1058.905,"body":"they're not mandated. You didn't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1054.865,"endTime":1058.905,"body":"get adopted. Too dang bad, even"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1058.968,"endTime":1063.007,"body":"your foster family has the right"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1058.968,"endTime":1063.007,"body":"to allow or not allow religious"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1063.07,"endTime":1066.92,"body":"attendance and participation up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1063.07,"endTime":1066.92,"body":"to age 18, when in the United"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1066.984,"endTime":1070.771,"body":"States, one would age out of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1066.984,"endTime":1070.771,"body":"these systems. And don't get me"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1070.834,"endTime":1074.684,"body":"started on how American churches"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1070.834,"endTime":1074.684,"body":"in particular see the foster"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1074.747,"endTime":1078.66,"body":"care system as an opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1074.747,"endTime":1078.66,"body":"do missionary work. There are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1078.723,"endTime":1082.699,"body":"literally dozens and dozens and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1078.723,"endTime":1082.699,"body":"dozens and dozens of ministries"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1082.763,"endTime":1085.918,"body":"for foster cares. There are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1082.763,"endTime":1085.918,"body":"pleas for major church"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1085.982,"endTime":1089.39,"body":"organizations encouraging"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1085.982,"endTime":1089.39,"body":"churches whole ass. Churches"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1089.453,"endTime":1092.987,"body":"like the church is fostering"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1089.453,"endTime":1092.987,"body":"children. There are 504, 3c"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1093.051,"endTime":1096.964,"body":"organizations trying hard to get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1093.051,"endTime":1096.964,"body":"access to these poor, wayward"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1097.027,"endTime":1100.561,"body":"souls. Adoptees are here a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1097.027,"endTime":1100.561,"body":"commodity for God, and I find"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1100.624,"endTime":1104.727,"body":"that kind of disgusting, even if"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1100.624,"endTime":1104.727,"body":"there are good intentions behind"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1104.79,"endTime":1104.98,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1105.52,"endTime":1108.64,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1105.52,"endTime":1108.64,"body":"gross, just so I'm clear,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1108.64,"endTime":1110.86,"body":"because, again, I know like half"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1108.64,"endTime":1110.86,"body":"a thing about adoption in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1110.86,"endTime":1115.6,"body":"Christianity, but the orgs are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1110.86,"endTime":1115.6,"body":"adopting the children directly"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1115.6,"endTime":1119.98,"body":"to families, right? They're not,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1115.6,"endTime":1119.98,"body":"like, owned by they're not the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1119.98,"endTime":1121.68,"body":"possession of the organization?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1119.98,"endTime":1121.68,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1121.8,"endTime":1123.06,"body":"a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1121.8,"endTime":1123.06,"body":"really great question that has"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1123.06,"endTime":1125.58,"body":"changed over the years. There"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1123.06,"endTime":1125.58,"body":"were many years where churches"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1125.58,"endTime":1128.64,"body":"literally adopted children and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1125.58,"endTime":1128.64,"body":"then the church owned the child"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1128.64,"endTime":1133.08,"body":"and, yeah, farmed out to other"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1128.64,"endTime":1133.08,"body":"people. Yeah, currently that is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1133.08,"endTime":1138.24,"body":"not the practice. We do not have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1133.08,"endTime":1138.24,"body":"that in place anymore, though,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1138.24,"endTime":1140.46,"body":"functionally,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1141.12,"endTime":1144.26,"body":"I would say,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1141.12,"endTime":1144.26,"body":"yeah, yeah, it's real. Greg,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1144.26,"endTime":1147.38,"body":"what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1144.26,"endTime":1147.38,"body":"does it mean when, like, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1147.5,"endTime":1150.56,"body":"really careful here and not use"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1147.5,"endTime":1150.56,"body":"specific denomination names. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1150.56,"endTime":1153.02,"body":"what does it mean when a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1150.56,"endTime":1153.02,"body":"specific denomination is putting"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1153.02,"endTime":1157.52,"body":"out a call for its flock, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1153.02,"endTime":1157.52,"body":"to do fostering, and then they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1157.52,"endTime":1160.9,"body":"are providing material resources"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1157.52,"endTime":1160.9,"body":"to make that possible for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1160.9,"endTime":1163.66,"body":"individual churches within that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1160.9,"endTime":1163.66,"body":"denomination. Oh, that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1163.78,"endTime":1165.76,"body":"just feels like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1163.78,"endTime":1165.76,"body":"you've got a Cayman Islands bank"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1165.76,"endTime":1167.8,"body":"account kind of moment. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1167.8,"endTime":1170.14,"body":"you're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1167.8,"endTime":1170.14,"body":"not wrong. It does feel a little"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1170.14,"endTime":1174.76,"body":"bit like we are playing a three"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1170.14,"endTime":1174.76,"body":"card monte, yeah, yeah. And Baby"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1174.88,"endTime":1178.9,"body":"is the thing we're moving. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1174.88,"endTime":1178.9,"body":"no, yeah. I mean, like it does"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1178.9,"endTime":1181.74,"body":"feel a little smoke and mirrors,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1178.9,"endTime":1181.74,"body":"yeah, yeah, but, but, but, to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1181.74,"endTime":1186.66,"body":"answer your question, no"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1181.74,"endTime":1186.66,"body":"churches, babies anymore,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1186.9,"endTime":1188.1,"body":"anymore, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1188.4,"endTime":1189.9,"body":"Well, because"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1188.4,"endTime":1189.9,"body":"that was, that was the thing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1189.9,"endTime":1194.1,"body":"that I knew, was that one of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1189.9,"endTime":1194.1,"body":"reasons there are so few shakers"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1194.1,"endTime":1198.42,"body":"now is not only because this is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1194.1,"endTime":1198.42,"body":"the United Society and the of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1198.42,"endTime":1201.68,"body":"believers in the second coming"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1198.42,"endTime":1201.68,"body":"of. Christ, there are now, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1201.68,"endTime":1204.8,"body":"believe three shakers in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1201.68,"endTime":1204.8,"body":"existence because they were a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1204.8,"endTime":1208.22,"body":"celibate movement, but they"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1204.8,"endTime":1208.22,"body":"flourished in the 19th century"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1208.22,"endTime":1213.2,"body":"because shaker communities as as"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1208.22,"endTime":1213.2,"body":"a church could just adopt"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1213.2,"endTime":1216.44,"body":"children. Yes, they just, they"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1213.2,"endTime":1216.44,"body":"just again. Store bought is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1216.44,"endTime":1219.56,"body":"fine. But then in the early 20th"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1216.44,"endTime":1219.56,"body":"century, the laws changed."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1219.56,"endTime":1222.7,"body":"Churches couldn't directly adopt"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1219.56,"endTime":1222.7,"body":"children anymore. And so then"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1222.7,"endTime":1224.68,"body":"you get the card shifting"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1222.7,"endTime":1224.68,"body":"around."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1224.68,"endTime":1226.36,"body":"It's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1224.68,"endTime":1226.36,"body":"complicated history, because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1226.36,"endTime":1229.96,"body":"America moves from an orphanage"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1226.36,"endTime":1229.96,"body":"model system to a family"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1229.96,"endTime":1232.84,"body":"placement model system, which is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1229.96,"endTime":1232.84,"body":"why we have foster care as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1232.84,"endTime":1236.38,"body":"opposed to orphanages. Gotcha."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1232.84,"endTime":1236.38,"body":"That is not the case globally."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1236.56,"endTime":1239.68,"body":"And so like these are again,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1236.56,"endTime":1239.68,"body":"this is where adoption as a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1239.68,"endTime":1244.38,"body":"premise has lots of global"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1239.68,"endTime":1244.38,"body":"stigma and global signifiers,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1244.38,"endTime":1247.32,"body":"but as a practice, it is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1244.38,"endTime":1247.32,"body":"mediated through your local"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1247.32,"endTime":1251.04,"body":"nation states, governments and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1247.32,"endTime":1251.04,"body":"state to state adoptions are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1251.04,"endTime":1253.86,"body":"really different, because the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1251.04,"endTime":1253.86,"body":"laws around like, as we'll get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1253.86,"endTime":1257.16,"body":"to in a little bit like Oregon"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1253.86,"endTime":1257.16,"body":"has its own laws about what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1257.16,"endTime":1260.82,"body":"qualifies for a fit parent, for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1257.16,"endTime":1260.82,"body":"children being adopted in that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1260.82,"endTime":1265.16,"body":"State, which may or may not line"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1260.82,"endTime":1265.16,"body":"up with Arkansas or whatever. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1265.16,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"there's a lot of like nuance"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1265.16,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"here, but no children cannot be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1268.28,"endTime":1269.48,"body":"owned by the church"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1269.66,"endTime":1273.98,"body":"current anymore"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1269.66,"endTime":1273.98,"body":"at this moment. All right, okay,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1274.34,"endTime":1277.94,"body":"so point the third major"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1274.34,"endTime":1277.94,"body":"adoption agencies, historically"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1277.94,"endTime":1281.14,"body":"and today, are, frankly, all"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1277.94,"endTime":1281.14,"body":"about Christianity and not 100%"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1282.58,"endTime":1287.44,"body":"but most, most of them, that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1282.58,"endTime":1287.44,"body":"history is beyond fucked up, as"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1287.44,"endTime":1291.94,"body":"we're going to get to but it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1287.44,"endTime":1291.94,"body":"includes, well, is not limited"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1291.94,"endTime":1295.18,"body":"to the Express statements of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1291.94,"endTime":1295.18,"body":"Catholic Church, its agencies"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1295.18,"endTime":1298.24,"body":"and other US backed Protestant"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1295.18,"endTime":1298.24,"body":"organizations promoting the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1298.24,"endTime":1302.22,"body":"removal of native children To be"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1298.24,"endTime":1302.22,"body":"raised by good white Christians"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1302.22,"endTime":1305.76,"body":"to kill the native but save the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1302.22,"endTime":1305.76,"body":"child. We're going to get to the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1305.76,"endTime":1309.66,"body":"i CWA, or Indian Child Welfare"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1305.76,"endTime":1309.66,"body":"Act, the removal of native"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1309.66,"endTime":1312.6,"body":"children and attempts to adopt"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1309.66,"endTime":1312.6,"body":"native children out of native"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1312.6,"endTime":1317.7,"body":"homes for their own good. Also"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1312.6,"endTime":1317.7,"body":"heavily in scare quotes in our"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1317.7,"endTime":1320.66,"body":"next episode, which is an entire"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1317.7,"endTime":1320.66,"body":"episode that focuses on the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1320.66,"endTime":1322.82,"body":"Indian Child Welfare Act."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1323.9,"endTime":1327.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1323.9,"endTime":1327.56,"body":"And finally, let's be real, we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1327.56,"endTime":1330.08,"body":"can't cover everything."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1327.56,"endTime":1330.08,"body":"Conservative activists have been"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1330.08,"endTime":1332.96,"body":"using and abusing religious"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1330.08,"endTime":1332.96,"body":"freedom laws for a while now to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1332.96,"endTime":1336.92,"body":"claim that white Christians are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1332.96,"endTime":1336.92,"body":"oppressed. Listener the fuck"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1336.92,"endTime":1341.06,"body":"they are. They are absolutely"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1336.92,"endTime":1341.06,"body":"not sure"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1341.18,"endTime":1345.76,"body":"about that one."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1341.18,"endTime":1345.76,"body":"The fuck they are keeping it one"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1345.76,"endTime":1346.84,"body":"on one done."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1348.1,"endTime":1349.9,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1348.1,"endTime":1349.9,"body":"that hasn't stopped lawsuit"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1349.9,"endTime":1353.8,"body":"after lawsuit claiming that the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1349.9,"endTime":1353.8,"body":"state owes Christian would be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1353.8,"endTime":1357.7,"body":"adoptive parents string free"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1353.8,"endTime":1357.7,"body":"babies to raise in the name of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1357.76,"endTime":1360.6,"body":"their Lord. And we're going to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1357.76,"endTime":1360.6,"body":"get to some of those cases in a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1360.6,"endTime":1361.8,"body":"second. One"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1361.8,"endTime":1364.5,"body":"of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1361.8,"endTime":1364.5,"body":"things about having known you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1364.5,"endTime":1370.38,"body":"for so long is I can always tell"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1364.5,"endTime":1370.38,"body":"when you're annoyed or angry or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1370.44,"endTime":1374.58,"body":"grumpy about getting back. It's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1370.44,"endTime":1374.58,"body":"a lawsuit, lawsuit after"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1374.58,"endTime":1376.56,"body":"lawsuit. It's great. I love it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1374.58,"endTime":1376.56,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1376.56,"endTime":1378.48,"body":"love"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1376.56,"endTime":1378.48,"body":"it so much. I'm mostly in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1378.48,"endTime":1379.56,"body":"control until"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1379.56,"endTime":1384.02,"body":"I'm not. I mean"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1379.56,"endTime":1384.02,"body":"same, our thresholds are just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1384.56,"endTime":1389.48,"body":"very different. Working on it,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1384.56,"endTime":1389.48,"body":"shout out to mind therapist and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1389.48,"endTime":1393.56,"body":"also meds. So what is? What I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1389.48,"endTime":1393.56,"body":"hear a saying is that adoption"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1393.56,"endTime":1396.32,"body":"and religion intersect in a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1393.56,"endTime":1396.32,"body":"bunch of ways, not the least of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1396.32,"endTime":1399.26,"body":"which is because religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1396.32,"endTime":1399.26,"body":"traditions have practices around"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1399.26,"endTime":1402.22,"body":"parentless or guardianless"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1399.26,"endTime":1402.22,"body":"children that sometimes play"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1402.22,"endTime":1405.16,"body":"nicely with state based law. But"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1402.22,"endTime":1405.16,"body":"I also hear us suggesting that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1405.16,"endTime":1410.02,"body":"white Christianity as the source"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1405.16,"endTime":1410.02,"body":"code for the US is both a major"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1410.02,"endTime":1413.68,"body":"driver of adoptions past and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1410.02,"endTime":1413.68,"body":"present, and as we'll spell out"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1413.68,"endTime":1416.68,"body":"more below, a framework that all"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1413.68,"endTime":1416.68,"body":"folks in the system have to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1416.68,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"confront regardless of their"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1416.68,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"religion, almost like I don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1419.68,"endTime":1423.48,"body":"know, religion isn't done with"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1419.68,"endTime":1423.48,"body":"them. Religion is not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1423.48,"endTime":1427.8,"body":"done"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1423.48,"endTime":1427.8,"body":"with them. And sometimes this is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1427.8,"endTime":1431.22,"body":"explicit. There's, um, there's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1427.8,"endTime":1431.22,"body":"this great documentary by one"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1431.22,"endTime":1435.96,"body":"time CBS Anchorman Dan Rather,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1431.22,"endTime":1435.96,"body":"called adoption or abduction."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1435.96,"endTime":1438.6,"body":"It's a good title, which"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1435.96,"endTime":1438.6,"body":"outlines. It's a great title,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1439.38,"endTime":1444.74,"body":"depressing like it is emotional"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1439.38,"endTime":1444.74,"body":"cutting, because it outlines"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1444.74,"endTime":1448.46,"body":"these global lawsuits and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1444.74,"endTime":1448.46,"body":"allegations against Catholic"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1448.46,"endTime":1451.7,"body":"Charities, which is one of the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1448.46,"endTime":1451.7,"body":"largest nonprofit organizations,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1451.7,"endTime":1457.46,"body":"literally in the world, which in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1451.7,"endTime":1457.46,"body":"many cases, and this is not an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1457.46,"endTime":1461.68,"body":"exaggeration, It stole children."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1457.46,"endTime":1461.68,"body":"It is a major actor in the baby"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1461.68,"endTime":1466.9,"body":"scoop era, and it is the major"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1461.68,"endTime":1466.9,"body":"actor in baby scoops globally."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1468.1,"endTime":1473.08,"body":"And and how that worked is like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1468.1,"endTime":1473.08,"body":"often women were just lied to."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1473.08,"endTime":1475.78,"body":"Like women who had just given"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1473.08,"endTime":1475.78,"body":"birth were literally told that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1475.78,"endTime":1480.36,"body":"their baby died, and instead,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1475.78,"endTime":1480.36,"body":"that healthy baby was taken and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1480.36,"endTime":1483.24,"body":"redistributed to a good and I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1480.36,"endTime":1483.24,"body":"want you to read Christian or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1483.24,"endTime":1487.5,"body":"Catholic family, or there are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1483.24,"endTime":1487.5,"body":"loads of examples in this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1487.5,"endTime":1490.08,"body":"particular documentary, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1487.5,"endTime":1490.08,"body":"these lawsuits around this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1490.08,"endTime":1495.18,"body":"documentary where priests"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1490.08,"endTime":1495.18,"body":"counseling women would con them,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1495.36,"endTime":1499.74,"body":"using tactics of religious or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1495.36,"endTime":1499.74,"body":"spiritual abuse into giving up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1499.74,"endTime":1504.14,"body":"their. Unsaved bastard children"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1499.74,"endTime":1504.14,"body":"who surely would go to hell"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1504.14,"endTime":1510.8,"body":"unless this woman, often a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1504.14,"endTime":1510.8,"body":"teenager, gave them their baby."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1511.16,"endTime":1511.7,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1513.8,"endTime":1517.46,"body":"Jesus and Baby"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1513.8,"endTime":1517.46,"body":"Jesus? Yeah, yeah. Not to go all"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1517.46,"endTime":1522.4,"body":"primary sources. Primary sources"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1517.46,"endTime":1522.4,"body":"on you, but I don't talk to my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1522.4,"endTime":1526.06,"body":"mother, as we mentioned up top,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1522.4,"endTime":1526.06,"body":"it is good and fine actually, to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1526.06,"endTime":1528.76,"body":"disconnect from abusive and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1526.06,"endTime":1528.76,"body":"harmful people. But I do really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1528.76,"endTime":1531.88,"body":"wonder about her decision to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1528.76,"endTime":1531.88,"body":"give her first child to Catholic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1531.88,"endTime":1535.3,"body":"Child Services. Like, who"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1531.88,"endTime":1535.3,"body":"influenced that decision? Was it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1535.3,"endTime":1539.2,"body":"her parents? Was it priests? Was"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1535.3,"endTime":1539.2,"body":"it a decade plus of parochial"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1539.2,"endTime":1542.04,"body":"school? I will never know, but I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1539.2,"endTime":1542.04,"body":"definitely wonder, and it seems"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1542.4,"endTime":1544.86,"body":"not unlikely that she got the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1542.4,"endTime":1544.86,"body":"hard sell for adoption."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1546.36,"endTime":1549.18,"body":"Honestly,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1546.36,"endTime":1549.18,"body":"like, if I were a betting woman,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1549.24,"endTime":1553.62,"body":"and you know, I'm not, I'd bet"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1549.24,"endTime":1553.62,"body":"my salary that that's the case,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1553.62,"endTime":1557.1,"body":"because the stories about bio"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1553.62,"endTime":1557.1,"body":"mom, harassment, abuse and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1557.1,"endTime":1561.44,"body":"gaslighting are rampant. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1557.1,"endTime":1561.44,"body":"truly, there are no good"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1561.44,"endTime":1565.28,"body":"stories, yeah, that come out of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1561.44,"endTime":1565.28,"body":"this, even if the story is like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1566.12,"endTime":1570.2,"body":"I was okay after this was I did"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1566.12,"endTime":1570.2,"body":"not want to be a parent at this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1570.2,"endTime":1573.8,"body":"time, but the way in which that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1570.2,"endTime":1573.8,"body":"happened was fucking trauma,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1573.98,"endTime":1579.14,"body":"trauma on trauma on trauma. Lie"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1573.98,"endTime":1579.14,"body":"on lie on lie. Yeah. And because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1579.14,"endTime":1582.34,"body":"most of these agencies, whether"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1579.14,"endTime":1582.34,"body":"they're Catholic Charities or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1582.34,"endTime":1585.52,"body":"not. Most of these agencies"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1582.34,"endTime":1585.52,"body":"worked in systems of closed"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1585.58,"endTime":1589.12,"body":"adoptions, which meant once"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1585.58,"endTime":1589.12,"body":"those records are sealed, that's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1589.12,"endTime":1594.94,"body":"it, babes. There is no legal way"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1589.12,"endTime":1594.94,"body":"for a bio parent or bio child to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1594.94,"endTime":1598.84,"body":"reconnect, especially when that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1594.94,"endTime":1598.84,"body":"child is still a minor without"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1598.84,"endTime":1602.46,"body":"things like private"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1598.84,"endTime":1602.46,"body":"investigators. Back in the day"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1602.7,"endTime":1609.18,"body":"or more recently, a major outlet"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1602.7,"endTime":1609.18,"body":"for folks has been those like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1609.18,"endTime":1613.2,"body":"DNA kits, like 23andme as a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1609.18,"endTime":1613.2,"body":"brand of those, which are a wing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1613.2,"endTime":1617.1,"body":"and a prayer, the adoptee does"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1613.2,"endTime":1617.1,"body":"the swab and hopes to learn"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1617.1,"endTime":1621.68,"body":"something about their ancestry,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1617.1,"endTime":1621.68,"body":"but the secondary hope is that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1621.68,"endTime":1624.44,"body":"you'll be connected to some sort"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1621.68,"endTime":1624.44,"body":"of biological relative, because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1624.44,"endTime":1627.8,"body":"that is what this DNA stealing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1624.44,"endTime":1627.8,"body":"company is doing. They're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1627.8,"endTime":1631.4,"body":"they're batching your DNA across"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1627.8,"endTime":1631.4,"body":"across time and space. And I get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1631.4,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"it. I do. This is my life. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1631.4,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"promise. I have thought about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1635.6,"endTime":1640.48,"body":"this from every angle for the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1635.6,"endTime":1640.48,"body":"last 41 plus years. The cases"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1640.48,"endTime":1643.24,"body":"against Catholic Charities is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1640.48,"endTime":1643.24,"body":"one example of major"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1643.24,"endTime":1649.18,"body":"corporations, among several"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1643.24,"endTime":1649.18,"body":"disgust me, because it is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1649.24,"endTime":1653.62,"body":"genuinely about harm. You are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1649.24,"endTime":1653.62,"body":"harming the pregnant person who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1653.62,"endTime":1657.76,"body":"is clearly, if not, in distress"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1653.62,"endTime":1657.76,"body":"in a moment of sheer stress and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1657.76,"endTime":1661.8,"body":"panic. You are harming the child"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1657.76,"endTime":1661.8,"body":"because you've created a life of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1661.8,"endTime":1666.18,"body":"lies. You are harming the folks"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1661.8,"endTime":1666.18,"body":"around those precious people."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1666.18,"endTime":1671.46,"body":"Because what work does it take"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1666.18,"endTime":1671.46,"body":"to maintain those lies? Who else"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1671.46,"endTime":1677.1,"body":"is involved, right? Because this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1671.46,"endTime":1677.1,"body":"is married up the baby scoop era"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1677.1,"endTime":1679.86,"body":"is married up with the era in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1677.1,"endTime":1679.86,"body":"which we did not tell adopted"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1679.86,"endTime":1683.36,"body":"children they were adopted"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1679.86,"endTime":1683.36,"body":"because of stigma and because,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1684.02,"endTime":1688.82,"body":"like, social norms. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1684.02,"endTime":1688.82,"body":"don't use the word hypocrisy a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1688.82,"endTime":1692.6,"body":"lot because it assumes that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1688.82,"endTime":1692.6,"body":"everyone and everything is clear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1692.6,"endTime":1695.42,"body":"or can be clear, and so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1692.6,"endTime":1695.42,"body":"violating that clarity of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1695.42,"endTime":1699.98,"body":"conscience is also, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1695.42,"endTime":1699.98,"body":"clear, but the hypocrisy of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1699.98,"endTime":1703.84,"body":"saving a child by mistreating"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1699.98,"endTime":1703.84,"body":"and mis discarding their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1703.84,"endTime":1708.76,"body":"biological parent is so fucking"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1703.84,"endTime":1708.76,"body":"vile to me that I can, I can,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1708.76,"endTime":1711.46,"body":"like, honestly, barely stand to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1708.76,"endTime":1711.46,"body":"have this conversation without,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1712.06,"endTime":1714.1,"body":"like, vibrating with anger."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1712.06,"endTime":1714.1,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1714.28,"endTime":1717.1,"body":"yeah, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1714.28,"endTime":1717.1,"body":"that save your narrative might"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1717.1,"endTime":1719.74,"body":"not be explicitly religious,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1717.1,"endTime":1719.74,"body":"although, come on, like, who are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1719.74,"endTime":1722.76,"body":"we kidding? But the emphasis on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1719.74,"endTime":1722.76,"body":"saving children from their"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1722.76,"endTime":1725.82,"body":"terrible biological roots, their"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1722.76,"endTime":1725.82,"body":"unfit parents, their ungodly"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1725.82,"endTime":1729.54,"body":"parents, is religious as heck,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1725.82,"endTime":1729.54,"body":"especially when we think about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1729.6,"endTime":1732.06,"body":"the ways that adoption,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1729.6,"endTime":1732.06,"body":"orphanages and decisions about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1732.06,"endTime":1735.54,"body":"parental or guardian fitness are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1732.06,"endTime":1735.54,"body":"all literally mediated by"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1735.54,"endTime":1739.74,"body":"religion and often white"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1735.54,"endTime":1739.74,"body":"Christian actors, definitions,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1739.8,"endTime":1741.56,"body":"governments and power systems."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1747.74,"endTime":1749.36,"body":"All"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1747.74,"endTime":1749.36,"body":"right, good. One. We listed four"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1749.36,"endTime":1751.82,"body":"main ways that adoption is a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1749.36,"endTime":1751.82,"body":"religious freedom issue. But"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1751.82,"endTime":1756.14,"body":"let's look at some cases to like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1751.82,"endTime":1756.14,"body":"actually flesh out our claims."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1756.5,"endTime":1758.6,"body":"Yeah, great. I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1756.5,"endTime":1758.6,"body":"love facts about abuse and other"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1758.6,"endTime":1761.2,"body":"depressing shit. Yeah, I bet"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1758.6,"endTime":1761.2,"body":"this won't make me need to stare"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1761.2,"endTime":1764.08,"body":"at a wall at all afterward."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1761.2,"endTime":1764.08,"body":"Yeah, sure, great. Let's do it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1765.34,"endTime":1767.8,"body":"all"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1765.34,"endTime":1767.8,"body":"right. Well, with that ringing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1767.8,"endTime":1771.76,"body":"endorsement, there's about a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1767.8,"endTime":1771.76,"body":"billion examples. So I got to be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1771.76,"endTime":1774.28,"body":"honest, dear nerds, it was"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1771.76,"endTime":1774.28,"body":"really hard for me to just pick"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1774.28,"endTime":1776.68,"body":"a couple. I was like, I want to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1774.28,"endTime":1776.68,"body":"do really, all this history"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1776.68,"endTime":1778.54,"body":"stuff. I want to do all this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1776.68,"endTime":1778.54,"body":"like, but I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1779.62,"endTime":1781.74,"body":"Yeah, found two"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1779.62,"endTime":1781.74,"body":"to be one episode. I just want"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1781.74,"endTime":1784.92,"body":"to say, like, originally, we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1781.74,"endTime":1784.92,"body":"pitched a religion and adoption"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1785.88,"endTime":1787.38,"body":"episode, and now it's similar"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1788.28,"endTime":1790.56,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1788.28,"endTime":1790.56,"body":"and that's like me really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1790.56,"endTime":1795.96,"body":"cutting it back, trying not to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1790.56,"endTime":1795.96,"body":"live in my own trauma here. All"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1795.96,"endTime":1798.18,"body":"right, but I've got two really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1795.96,"endTime":1798.18,"body":"great cases coming at you. The"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1798.18,"endTime":1804.38,"body":"first, oh no. Is a great and by"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1798.18,"endTime":1804.38,"body":"great I mean horrifically"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1804.38,"endTime":1809.78,"body":"focused case out of Oregon last"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1804.38,"endTime":1809.78,"body":"year that's still working its"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1809.78,"endTime":1811.88,"body":"way through appeal. So both of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1809.78,"endTime":1811.88,"body":"the cases that we're talking"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1811.88,"endTime":1815.18,"body":"about today are live cases, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1811.88,"endTime":1815.18,"body":"hopefully nothing changes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1815.18,"endTime":1817.88,"body":"between now a drop date, but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1815.18,"endTime":1817.88,"body":"they're not scheduled on any"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1817.88,"endTime":1820.36,"body":"lawsuit. Like, I check court"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1817.88,"endTime":1820.36,"body":"dockets, like, we should be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1820.36,"endTime":1822.76,"body":"good, but like, soon this will"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1820.36,"endTime":1822.76,"body":"be out of date. That'll be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1822.76,"endTime":1825.58,"body":"great. I love when things get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1822.76,"endTime":1825.58,"body":"out of date because incoming"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1825.58,"endTime":1829.24,"body":"information. But I want our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1825.58,"endTime":1829.24,"body":"nerds to know these are not I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1829.24,"endTime":1831.58,"body":"feel like I live in the 19th"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1829.24,"endTime":1831.58,"body":"century. You know what I mean? I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1831.58,"endTime":1833.8,"body":"don't want everyone to be like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1831.58,"endTime":1833.8,"body":"Oh yeah, she's bitching about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1833.8,"endTime":1836.62,"body":"something that happened 150"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1833.8,"endTime":1836.62,"body":"years ago. Things are different"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1836.62,"endTime":1839.5,"body":"now. No, they're not. She is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1836.62,"endTime":1839.5,"body":"live in Oregon right now. On"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1839.5,"endTime":1840.16,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1840.34,"endTime":1841.74,"body":"On today,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1842.1,"endTime":1844.2,"body":"this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1842.1,"endTime":1844.2,"body":"case in Oregon follows a really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1844.2,"endTime":1847.02,"body":"particular pattern around"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1844.2,"endTime":1847.02,"body":"religious freedom First"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1847.02,"endTime":1850.8,"body":"Amendment cases of late, which"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1847.02,"endTime":1850.8,"body":"is to say, a Christian, a white"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1850.8,"endTime":1854.22,"body":"Christian, a good white"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1850.8,"endTime":1854.22,"body":"Christian, often kind of pretty"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1854.64,"endTime":1857.46,"body":"claims that they're being"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1854.64,"endTime":1857.46,"body":"discriminated against for their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1857.52,"endTime":1858.84,"body":"hateful positions."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1858.96,"endTime":1860.96,"body":"Yeah, so it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1858.96,"endTime":1860.96,"body":"like the gay cake case, right,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1860.96,"endTime":1863.36,"body":"where a shop owner is allowed to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1860.96,"endTime":1863.36,"body":"deny services to a gay couple"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1863.36,"endTime":1866.6,"body":"because their owner's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1863.36,"endTime":1866.6,"body":"interpretation of the religion"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1866.6,"endTime":1868.7,"body":"is against gay marriage. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1866.6,"endTime":1868.7,"body":"very"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1868.7,"endTime":1870.56,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1868.7,"endTime":1870.56,"body":"So let's get into this lawsuit."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1870.74,"endTime":1874.82,"body":"Spoilers and trigger warning. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1870.74,"endTime":1874.82,"body":"do not think people are entitled"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1874.82,"endTime":1879.26,"body":"to children. I do not think you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1874.82,"endTime":1879.26,"body":"hearing from God that this baby"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1879.26,"endTime":1884.08,"body":"is your baby. Is true and more"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1879.26,"endTime":1884.08,"body":"so admissible in court. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1884.08,"endTime":1886.42,"body":"further, do not think that the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1884.08,"endTime":1886.42,"body":"state of Oregon, when it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1886.42,"endTime":1889.84,"body":"processes parents fitness, is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1886.42,"endTime":1889.84,"body":"anything but fucking spot on to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1889.84,"endTime":1892.72,"body":"ask questions about how you will"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1889.84,"endTime":1892.72,"body":"deal with raise or foster a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1892.72,"endTime":1896.32,"body":"child in your care. Should they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1892.72,"endTime":1896.32,"body":"be queer or trans? And one more"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1896.38,"endTime":1901.32,"body":"spoiler, I think if you answer"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1896.38,"endTime":1901.32,"body":"that question in a way that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1901.32,"endTime":1905.82,"body":"demonstrates you will be a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1901.32,"endTime":1905.82,"body":"hateful ass piece of shit, then"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1905.82,"endTime":1908.34,"body":"it is absolutely correct that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1905.82,"endTime":1908.34,"body":"the state was like, well, maybe"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1908.34,"endTime":1911.94,"body":"we don't trust you to have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1908.34,"endTime":1911.94,"body":"children in your care if the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1911.94,"endTime":1913.62,"body":"choice is up to us,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1913.74,"endTime":1916.08,"body":"what if we don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1913.74,"endTime":1916.08,"body":"hand a potentially queer or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1916.08,"endTime":1919.74,"body":"trans child, which is every"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1916.08,"endTime":1919.74,"body":"child, over to a family that is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1920.04,"endTime":1924.2,"body":"telling you up front, oh yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1920.04,"endTime":1924.2,"body":"I'm fucking hate that kid like I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1924.2,"endTime":1926.54,"body":"didn't realize that we were"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1924.2,"endTime":1926.54,"body":"still debating whether teaching"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1926.54,"endTime":1929.3,"body":"your child to hate themselves"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1926.54,"endTime":1929.3,"body":"was like acceptable parenting."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1929.3,"endTime":1933.92,"body":"But just sure tell me more about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1929.3,"endTime":1933.92,"body":"what I understand to be a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1933.92,"endTime":1936.2,"body":"harrowing case that will leave"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1933.92,"endTime":1936.2,"body":"me ready to punch people and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1936.2,"endTime":1937.04,"body":"they're bigoted nerds."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1937.7,"endTime":1940.58,"body":"Get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1937.7,"endTime":1940.58,"body":"your boxing gloves ready, girl."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1941.0,"endTime":1942.1,"body":"You know, I stay"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1941.0,"endTime":1942.1,"body":"ready right."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1942.28,"endTime":1945.46,"body":"Here"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1942.28,"endTime":1945.46,"body":"we go. In Oregon in 2023 a woman"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1945.46,"endTime":1948.58,"body":"named Jessica Bates, no relation"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1945.46,"endTime":1948.58,"body":"to Norman, as far as I can tell,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1948.76,"endTime":1952.72,"body":"was denied the right, and I need"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1948.76,"endTime":1952.72,"body":"you to hear me choking on that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1952.72,"endTime":1957.4,"body":"word, the right to adopt two"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1952.72,"endTime":1957.4,"body":"children by the Oregon"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1957.4,"endTime":1961.02,"body":"Department of Human Services as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1957.4,"endTime":1961.02,"body":"part of routine screenings,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1961.02,"endTime":1963.96,"body":"Bates told a caseworker, a state"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1961.02,"endTime":1963.96,"body":"employee, and therefore"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1963.96,"endTime":1967.8,"body":"mandatory reporter, that her"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1963.96,"endTime":1967.8,"body":"Christian beliefs prevented her"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1967.8,"endTime":1972.3,"body":"from, quote, following a rule"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1967.8,"endTime":1972.3,"body":"that requires adoptive parents"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1972.3,"endTime":1975.54,"body":"to support and respect their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1972.3,"endTime":1975.54,"body":"child's sexual orientation and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1975.54,"endTime":1983.54,"body":"gender identity. End quote."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1975.54,"endTime":1983.54,"body":"We'll do a little Okay? Bitch"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1983.54,"endTime":1986.54,"body":"says in the interview for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1983.54,"endTime":1986.54,"body":"whether or not you can adopt a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1986.54,"endTime":1988.82,"body":"child like they're in your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1986.54,"endTime":1988.82,"body":"house. They're looking for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1988.82,"endTime":1991.22,"body":"cockroaches, they're making sure"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1988.82,"endTime":1991.22,"body":"you got a bed for this kid. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1991.22,"endTime":1993.56,"body":"they're like, Yo, are you gonna"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1991.22,"endTime":1993.56,"body":"be cool with gay kids? They're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1993.56,"endTime":1997.28,"body":"like, Nah, no,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1993.56,"endTime":1997.28,"body":"definitely not into that. Now"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1997.28,"endTime":1999.02,"body":"for us"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1997.28,"endTime":1999.02,"body":"mere mortals, without deeply"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1999.02,"endTime":2003.42,"body":"seated racialized senses of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1999.02,"endTime":2003.42,"body":"entitlement. We might think, oh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2003.96,"endTime":2007.44,"body":"yeah, girlfriend broke a state"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2003.96,"endTime":2007.44,"body":"mandated ruler policy meant to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2007.44,"endTime":2010.68,"body":"protect children, especially"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2007.44,"endTime":2010.68,"body":"those in the care of the state,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2010.8,"endTime":2014.28,"body":"which are the children Oregon is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2010.8,"endTime":2014.28,"body":"allowed to dole out to other"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2014.28,"endTime":2018.48,"body":"people. This seems open and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2014.28,"endTime":2018.48,"body":"shut. Don't follow the rule."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2018.66,"endTime":2020.6,"body":"Don't get the prize. Yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2020.6,"endTime":2024.8,"body":"mean, I don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2020.6,"endTime":2024.8,"body":"care for children being I'm just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2024.8,"endTime":2029.54,"body":"like, picturing the claw"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2024.8,"endTime":2029.54,"body":"machine, yeah? Like, he's not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2029.54,"endTime":2032.66,"body":"one Rosen, I don't love that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2029.54,"endTime":2032.66,"body":"But yeah, I hear what you're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2032.66,"endTime":2038.78,"body":"saying. Like, this is a rule."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2032.66,"endTime":2038.78,"body":"She said, Nah, so keep it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2038.78,"endTime":2040.04,"body":"pushing Yes."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2042.5,"endTime":2045.7,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2042.5,"endTime":2045.7,"body":"Except that's not how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2046.48,"endTime":2051.76,"body":"entitlement works, because Bates"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2046.48,"endTime":2051.76,"body":"openly breaks this rule. The"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2051.76,"endTime":2054.76,"body":"question is asked, she says, No,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2051.76,"endTime":2054.76,"body":"thank you. That is a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2054.76,"endTime":2059.62,"body":"disqualifying answer, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2054.76,"endTime":2059.62,"body":"instead of being like, shucks,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2059.62,"endTime":2062.1,"body":"maybe I should change my answer,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2059.62,"endTime":2062.1,"body":"or this isn't the way for me to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2062.1,"endTime":2065.46,"body":"adopt. She says, actually,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2062.1,"endTime":2065.46,"body":"there's a fucking lawsuit. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2065.46,"endTime":2067.92,"body":"she hooks up with the Alliance"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2065.46,"endTime":2067.92,"body":"Defending Freedom, which is a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2067.92,"endTime":2071.28,"body":"right wing organization founded"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2067.92,"endTime":2071.28,"body":"and maintained by conservative"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2071.28,"endTime":2074.58,"body":"Christians whose entire purpose,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2071.28,"endTime":2074.58,"body":"as far as I can gather, is to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2074.64,"endTime":2077.46,"body":"undermine legal frameworks in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2074.64,"endTime":2077.46,"body":"favor of instilling Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2077.46,"endTime":2080.12,"body":"worldviews into law. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2080.42,"endTime":2084.68,"body":"I mean, like,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2080.42,"endTime":2084.68,"body":"more, so, right? Because us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2084.68,"endTime":2087.62,"body":"lost, so, like, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2084.68,"endTime":2087.62,"body":"pretty Christian from the jump,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2088.1,"endTime":2091.16,"body":"like, but we're, we're just,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2088.1,"endTime":2091.16,"body":"like, underlining and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2091.16,"endTime":2094.1,"body":"highlighting and, like, maybe"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2091.16,"endTime":2094.1,"body":"using a sparkle pen."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2094.52,"endTime":2096.14,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2094.52,"endTime":2096.14,"body":"mean, they don't think that, but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2096.14,"endTime":2098.9,"body":"I find them to be scummy, so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2096.14,"endTime":2098.9,"body":"that doesn't, that don't mean"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2098.9,"endTime":2100.12,"body":"nothing. But. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2101.08,"endTime":2102.34,"body":"I mean, tell us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2101.08,"endTime":2102.34,"body":"how you really feel."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2105.28,"endTime":2106.78,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2105.28,"endTime":2106.78,"body":"mean, honestly, anyone who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2106.78,"endTime":2109.36,"body":"thinks a vulnerable child"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2106.78,"endTime":2109.36,"body":"deserves a parent who, out loud"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2109.36,"endTime":2112.06,"body":"says they can't possibly change"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2109.36,"endTime":2112.06,"body":"their minds about anything is a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2112.06,"endTime":2115.48,"body":"fucking monster and also a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2112.06,"endTime":2115.48,"body":"terrible parent. And honestly,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2115.48,"endTime":2119.8,"body":"I've been a parent for more than"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2115.48,"endTime":2119.8,"body":"11 years now, and the idea that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2119.8,"endTime":2126.0,"body":"you never change is the most"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2119.8,"endTime":2126.0,"body":"insane hubris I have ever heard"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2126.0,"endTime":2131.82,"body":"in my entire life. But I digress"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2126.0,"endTime":2131.82,"body":"anyway, Bates's representation"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2131.82,"endTime":2138.42,"body":"this conservative Christian like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2131.82,"endTime":2138.42,"body":"org says, and I'm quoting here"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2138.42,"endTime":2143.36,"body":"quote, no state should abandon"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2138.42,"endTime":2143.36,"body":"children in favor of a dangerous"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2143.36,"endTime":2147.5,"body":"ideological agenda. End quote."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2143.36,"endTime":2147.5,"body":"And they added, like a separate"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2147.5,"endTime":2150.08,"body":"pair, a separate sentence down"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2147.5,"endTime":2150.08,"body":"the line, they say quote,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2150.14,"endTime":2155.36,"body":"Jessica Bates is a loving mother"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2150.14,"endTime":2155.36,"body":"who feels called to adopt"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2155.36,"endTime":2161.8,"body":"siblings under the age of 10"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2155.36,"endTime":2161.8,"body":"from foster care. End quote. In"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2161.8,"endTime":2166.78,"body":"this statement that the legal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2161.8,"endTime":2166.78,"body":"representative makes, he says a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2166.78,"endTime":2171.46,"body":"bunch of really transphobic shit"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2166.78,"endTime":2171.46,"body":"too, like she's held a normal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2171.46,"endTime":2174.1,"body":"view that most normal people"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2171.46,"endTime":2174.1,"body":"hold, which is boys and girls"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2174.1,"endTime":2176.08,"body":"are different, and that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2174.1,"endTime":2176.08,"body":"difference should be honored and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2176.08,"endTime":2180.72,"body":"celebrated. Which like to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2176.08,"endTime":2180.72,"body":"transphobia. However, we expect"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2180.72,"endTime":2183.06,"body":"that from this kind of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2180.72,"endTime":2183.06,"body":"organization. I want to call our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2183.06,"endTime":2186.36,"body":"listeners attention and your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2183.06,"endTime":2186.36,"body":"attention. Megan, to two things."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2186.48,"endTime":2189.78,"body":"Okay, first, like that's going"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2186.48,"endTime":2189.78,"body":"on this lawsuit. First, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2189.78,"endTime":2194.1,"body":"accusation is that the state is,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2189.78,"endTime":2194.1,"body":"quote, abandoning children in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2194.1,"endTime":2196.08,"body":"favor of ideology,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2196.14,"endTime":2200.42,"body":"and the ideology"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2196.14,"endTime":2200.42,"body":"is people who are queer and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2200.42,"endTime":2201.38,"body":"trans exist."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2203.42,"endTime":2207.74,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2203.42,"endTime":2207.74,"body":"yeah, okay, yep, okay. And their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2207.74,"endTime":2211.28,"body":"claim is that the state"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2207.74,"endTime":2211.28,"body":"therefore is doing the violence"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2212.3,"endTime":2215.54,"body":"because the state is allowing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2212.3,"endTime":2215.54,"body":"children to go unadopted, which"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2215.54,"endTime":2217.7,"body":"is an unacceptable premise here."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2219.62,"endTime":2221.62,"body":"So better a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2219.62,"endTime":2221.62,"body":"hateful parent than no parent at"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2221.62,"endTime":2221.8,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2222.22,"endTime":2224.56,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2222.22,"endTime":2224.56,"body":"exactly right. Wow. And as an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2224.56,"endTime":2226.78,"body":"adoptee, I hear that as like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2224.56,"endTime":2226.78,"body":"take what you get, you get what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2226.78,"endTime":2230.8,"body":"you get, and you don't get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2226.78,"endTime":2230.8,"body":"upset. And you know what? No,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2230.8,"endTime":2235.42,"body":"thank you. The second thing I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2230.8,"endTime":2235.42,"body":"want to point out here is the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2235.42,"endTime":2241.92,"body":"language of calling the legal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2235.42,"endTime":2241.92,"body":"counsel says Jessica is a loving"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2241.92,"endTime":2247.38,"body":"mother who feels called to adopt"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2241.92,"endTime":2247.38,"body":"siblings under the age of 10"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2247.38,"endTime":2252.9,"body":"from foster care. There is no"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2247.38,"endTime":2252.9,"body":"universe in which that calling"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2253.02,"endTime":2257.04,"body":"is not religious. She feels a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2253.02,"endTime":2257.04,"body":"calling. Who the fuck cares?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2257.76,"endTime":2264.8,"body":"Honestly, the part that gets me,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2257.76,"endTime":2264.8,"body":"though, and that what there's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2264.8,"endTime":2267.8,"body":"lot of reporting about this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2264.8,"endTime":2267.8,"body":"case. This is a big case. A lot"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2267.8,"endTime":2270.5,"body":"of these cases they do as like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2267.8,"endTime":2270.5,"body":"stunt cases, right? Like the gay"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2270.5,"endTime":2274.4,"body":"cake case is a stunt case. This"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2270.5,"endTime":2274.4,"body":"is clearly a stunt ask case, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2274.4,"endTime":2277.16,"body":"that's fine. But the thing that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2274.4,"endTime":2277.16,"body":"the media is not picking up on,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2277.16,"endTime":2280.84,"body":"but that adoptee, like message"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2277.16,"endTime":2280.84,"body":"boards and like discords are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2280.84,"endTime":2286.78,"body":"talking about is that this bitch"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2280.84,"endTime":2286.78,"body":"put in an order. It's not that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2286.78,"endTime":2289.9,"body":"she feels called, or maybe it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2286.78,"endTime":2289.9,"body":"is, but she called specifically."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2290.2,"endTime":2294.52,"body":"She feels entitled to children"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2290.2,"endTime":2294.52,"body":"under 10 who are siblings, when"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2294.52,"endTime":2297.4,"body":"they're cute, when they don't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2294.52,"endTime":2297.4,"body":"talk back, when you still have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2297.4,"endTime":2299.68,"body":"influence over them, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2299.8,"endTime":2301.44,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2299.8,"endTime":2301.44,"body":"that's what she ordered off the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2301.44,"endTime":2302.94,"body":"menu, right? Exactly?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2303.12,"endTime":2304.68,"body":"Girl"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2303.12,"endTime":2304.68,"body":"Wants chicken thingies. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2304.68,"endTime":2308.28,"body":"like, that's fine, but this is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2304.68,"endTime":2308.28,"body":"not a restaurant, yeah? This,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2308.34,"endTime":2310.14,"body":"this sure feels"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2308.34,"endTime":2310.14,"body":"like a person who thinks about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2310.14,"endTime":2312.96,"body":"kids is, like, I don't fucking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2310.14,"endTime":2312.96,"body":"know, like a thing to own a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2313.26,"endTime":2315.72,"body":"choir is this like some horrible"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2313.26,"endTime":2315.72,"body":"white Christian nationalist"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2315.72,"endTime":2318.18,"body":"Pikachu scenario in which she"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2315.72,"endTime":2318.18,"body":"attempts to collect them all? I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2318.18,"endTime":2321.44,"body":"hate it. I hate it a lot. I hate"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2318.18,"endTime":2321.44,"body":"it. I don't like it. There's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2321.44,"endTime":2325.4,"body":"nothing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2321.44,"endTime":2325.4,"body":"to like. In fairness, she lost"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2325.4,"endTime":2329.12,"body":"the first suit. The judge in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2325.4,"endTime":2329.12,"body":"that case reasoned that Bates"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2329.12,"endTime":2332.3,"body":"had not demonstrated that the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2329.12,"endTime":2332.3,"body":"government is endorsing or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2332.3,"endTime":2338.36,"body":"mandating a secular worldview"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2332.3,"endTime":2338.36,"body":"over a religious one, and wrote,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2338.36,"endTime":2341.26,"body":"and this is this is the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2338.36,"endTime":2341.26,"body":"religious freedom part. Quote,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2341.56,"endTime":2344.68,"body":"it appears that the rationale"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2341.56,"endTime":2344.68,"body":"behind why an applicant would be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2344.68,"endTime":2349.0,"body":"unable to accommodate a child's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2344.68,"endTime":2349.0,"body":"LGBTQ plus identities is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2349.0,"endTime":2352.96,"body":"irrelevant. The only relevant"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2349.0,"endTime":2352.96,"body":"inquiry is the applicant's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2352.96,"endTime":2357.64,"body":"willingness and ability, not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2352.96,"endTime":2357.64,"body":"their reasoning. End, quote,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2357.82,"endTime":2360.9,"body":"so it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2357.82,"endTime":2360.9,"body":"matter why you hate queer and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2360.9,"endTime":2366.48,"body":"trans people. The part that the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2360.9,"endTime":2366.48,"body":"state is saying matters in this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2366.78,"endTime":2370.74,"body":"in this decision, is that you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2366.78,"endTime":2370.74,"body":"don't think queer and trans"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2370.74,"endTime":2373.5,"body":"people should exist, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2370.74,"endTime":2373.5,"body":"regardless of why you think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2373.5,"endTime":2375.96,"body":"that, that's what's relevant"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2373.5,"endTime":2375.96,"body":"here, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2375.96,"endTime":2378.78,"body":"and I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2375.96,"endTime":2378.78,"body":"think, um, I, I've listened to a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2378.78,"endTime":2382.46,"body":"few, like, legal podcasts about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2378.78,"endTime":2382.46,"body":"this case in like, the adoption"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2382.46,"endTime":2384.92,"body":"network, and I'm gonna put in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2382.46,"endTime":2384.92,"body":"our show notes a few, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2384.92,"endTime":2389.78,"body":"really great adoption podcasts"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2384.92,"endTime":2389.78,"body":"that are, like, fabulous. But"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2390.14,"endTime":2394.46,"body":"one of the ones for this was,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2390.14,"endTime":2394.46,"body":"like, this is a slippery slope,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2394.46,"endTime":2397.22,"body":"because the state of Oregon has"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2394.46,"endTime":2397.22,"body":"said that keeping children safe"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2397.22,"endTime":2400.36,"body":"means attending to their mental"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2397.22,"endTime":2400.36,"body":"and physical needs. Mm. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2400.36,"endTime":2404.62,"body":"makes sense? Yeah. If you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2400.36,"endTime":2404.62,"body":"undermine this particular"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2404.62,"endTime":2407.38,"body":"question on the questionnaire,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2404.62,"endTime":2407.38,"body":"the question is for legal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2407.38,"endTime":2411.28,"body":"experts, what else can be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2407.38,"endTime":2411.28,"body":"undermined? So like, are we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2411.28,"endTime":2413.98,"body":"going to allow corporal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2411.28,"endTime":2413.98,"body":"punishment? Well, like, you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2413.98,"endTime":2416.62,"body":"can't take children who've been"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2413.98,"endTime":2416.62,"body":"removed from abusive homes and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2416.62,"endTime":2420.72,"body":"like, fucking hit them. Or like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2416.62,"endTime":2420.72,"body":"can you say my religion doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2420.72,"endTime":2424.92,"body":"like therapy, and therefore the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2420.72,"endTime":2424.92,"body":"state mandated therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2424.98,"endTime":2430.2,"body":"sources for kids transitioning"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2424.98,"endTime":2430.2,"body":"from one home to another,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2430.2,"endTime":2432.66,"body":"because she's not asking to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2430.2,"endTime":2432.66,"body":"adopt a baby she's asking to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2432.66,"endTime":2436.32,"body":"adopt out of foster care, right?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2432.66,"endTime":2436.32,"body":"So there are parental rights"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2436.32,"endTime":2439.98,"body":"that have to be terminated."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2436.32,"endTime":2439.98,"body":"There are also mandated mental"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2439.98,"endTime":2443.3,"body":"health things that have to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2439.98,"endTime":2443.3,"body":"happen and and so, like, it's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2443.3,"endTime":2447.32,"body":"slippery slope. If this were to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2443.3,"endTime":2447.32,"body":"pass, or if this were to say,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2447.32,"endTime":2450.02,"body":"like, that question is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2447.32,"endTime":2450.02,"body":"unconstitutional, then the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2450.02,"endTime":2454.1,"body":"question is, well, what else can"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2450.02,"endTime":2454.1,"body":"be? What else can be said to be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2454.1,"endTime":2456.8,"body":"in violation of religious"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2454.1,"endTime":2456.8,"body":"freedom? Could you say"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2456.8,"endTime":2459.32,"body":"reasonably, and I say this with"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2456.8,"endTime":2459.32,"body":"tongue in cheek, but also not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2459.32,"endTime":2462.58,"body":"for nothing. Could you say my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2459.32,"endTime":2462.58,"body":"religion says children should be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2462.58,"endTime":2466.06,"body":"punished by like, being hung on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2462.58,"endTime":2466.06,"body":"a crucifix for a few hours a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2466.06,"endTime":2471.76,"body":"day? That's fucked up. But like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2466.06,"endTime":2471.76,"body":"people do shit to their kids,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2471.82,"endTime":2476.92,"body":"they really your state is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2471.82,"endTime":2476.92,"body":"mandating that, like, we make"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2476.92,"endTime":2480.3,"body":"sure these children are cared"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2476.92,"endTime":2480.3,"body":"for in every way. And so legal"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2480.3,"endTime":2482.88,"body":"experts were less concerned"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2480.3,"endTime":2482.88,"body":"about the religious freedom of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2482.88,"endTime":2486.54,"body":"it and more about the child"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2482.88,"endTime":2486.54,"body":"minority rights of it that like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2486.54,"endTime":2490.56,"body":"undermining this one question"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2486.54,"endTime":2490.56,"body":"actually can unruly undo quite a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2490.56,"endTime":2494.76,"body":"lot of the other care questions."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2490.56,"endTime":2494.76,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2495.12,"endTime":2497.04,"body":"all right, so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2495.12,"endTime":2497.04,"body":"obviously the case is moving to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2497.04,"endTime":2499.68,"body":"appeal. We don't know what"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2497.04,"endTime":2499.68,"body":"happens next, but it's important"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2499.68,"endTime":2502.52,"body":"to note that this denial of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2499.68,"endTime":2502.52,"body":"right in scare quotes to be a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2502.52,"endTime":2505.22,"body":"parent only refers to the state"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2502.52,"endTime":2505.22,"body":"of Oregon's finding that she is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2505.22,"endTime":2508.16,"body":"not suitable for child"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2505.22,"endTime":2508.16,"body":"placement. It has nothing to do"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2508.16,"endTime":2511.04,"body":"and no bearing on whether"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2508.16,"endTime":2511.04,"body":"private agencies would rule in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2511.04,"endTime":2514.28,"body":"the same way, which suggests, as"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2511.04,"endTime":2514.28,"body":"many experts have argued, that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2514.28,"endTime":2516.98,"body":"these cases are less about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2514.28,"endTime":2516.98,"body":"anything real and more about an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2516.98,"endTime":2519.86,"body":"agenda to push and test the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2516.98,"endTime":2519.86,"body":"limits of the law with a hope to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2519.86,"endTime":2523.9,"body":"defeat them frankly and instill"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2519.86,"endTime":2523.9,"body":"again, more white Christian"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2523.96,"endTime":2527.02,"body":"privilege in legal codes. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2527.38,"endTime":2528.94,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2527.38,"endTime":2528.94,"body":"And we're going to transition to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2528.94,"endTime":2534.34,"body":"our second case now, because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2528.94,"endTime":2534.34,"body":"private agencies are also not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2534.34,"endTime":2537.94,"body":"immune to religious freedom"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2534.34,"endTime":2537.94,"body":"concern. So let's take this case"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2538.6,"endTime":2542.88,"body":"also ongoing, which features a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2538.6,"endTime":2542.88,"body":"Jewish couple based in Tennessee"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2543.06,"endTime":2546.66,"body":"who tried to adopt, and like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2543.06,"endTime":2546.66,"body":"most Americans, found themselves"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2546.66,"endTime":2551.16,"body":"seeking a private adoption,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2546.66,"endTime":2551.16,"body":"though this time, mediated"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2551.16,"endTime":2554.28,"body":"through a Christian affiliated"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2551.16,"endTime":2554.28,"body":"agency. Now that sounds"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2554.28,"endTime":2556.62,"body":"confusing, but we'll get to the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2554.28,"endTime":2556.62,"body":"to the beef of the case in a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2556.62,"endTime":2560.96,"body":"second. All right, we've already"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2556.62,"endTime":2560.96,"body":"established, maybe we haven't."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2560.96,"endTime":2564.44,"body":"Maybe it's worth repeating that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2560.96,"endTime":2564.44,"body":"an overwhelming majority of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2564.44,"endTime":2567.56,"body":"adoption agencies in the US are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2564.44,"endTime":2567.56,"body":"Christian outright, or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2567.56,"endTime":2572.96,"body":"affiliated. Okay, the fact this,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2567.56,"endTime":2572.96,"body":"the data on this is something"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2572.96,"endTime":2577.88,"body":"like 85 plus percent of adoption"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2572.96,"endTime":2577.88,"body":"agencies in the country are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2577.88,"endTime":2583.9,"body":"affiliated with Christianity in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2577.88,"endTime":2583.9,"body":"some capacity. So before y'all"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2583.9,"endTime":2586.6,"body":"say, shop around, what are these"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2583.9,"endTime":2586.6,"body":"Jews doing this Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2586.6,"endTime":2590.26,"body":"organization in the first place?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2586.6,"endTime":2590.26,"body":"Jews should shop at the Jewish"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2590.26,"endTime":2596.08,"body":"store, I have several comments,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2590.26,"endTime":2596.08,"body":"all of them accusatory. Primary"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2596.08,"endTime":2601.98,"body":"among these are, why? Why are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2596.08,"endTime":2601.98,"body":"children's records and ability"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2601.98,"endTime":2604.98,"body":"to be adopted being held at"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2601.98,"endTime":2604.98,"body":"private agencies. Like, why is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2604.98,"endTime":2608.28,"body":"that thing we allowed? Because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2604.98,"endTime":2608.28,"body":"that's a money question. That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2608.28,"endTime":2611.76,"body":"a capitalism question. When"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2608.28,"endTime":2611.76,"body":"people say adoption is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2611.76,"endTime":2615.42,"body":"expensive, this is what they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2611.76,"endTime":2615.42,"body":"mean, because it can cost 10s of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2615.42,"endTime":2618.36,"body":"1000s of dollars to navigate"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2615.42,"endTime":2618.36,"body":"your way through this shit."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2619.92,"endTime":2623.3,"body":"Second question, why are we okay"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2619.92,"endTime":2623.3,"body":"that private agencies have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2623.3,"endTime":2627.08,"body":"religious affiliations, and what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2623.3,"endTime":2627.08,"body":"does it mean that guardianless"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2627.08,"endTime":2630.86,"body":"children can be moved through"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2627.08,"endTime":2630.86,"body":"religious or non religious"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2630.86,"endTime":2635.6,"body":"private agencies which make"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2630.86,"endTime":2635.6,"body":"money? So I want to remind"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2635.6,"endTime":2638.24,"body":"everybody that I'm not just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2635.6,"endTime":2638.24,"body":"being an anti capitalist commie."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2638.3,"endTime":2641.92,"body":"Those are true things about me,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2638.3,"endTime":2641.92,"body":"but this is also data supported"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2642.82,"endTime":2645.88,"body":"according to IBIS World, which"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2642.82,"endTime":2645.88,"body":"is a comprehensive industry"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2645.88,"endTime":2650.68,"body":"market research database, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2645.88,"endTime":2650.68,"body":"market size, measured by revenue"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2650.92,"endTime":2655.12,"body":"of the adoption and child"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2650.92,"endTime":2655.12,"body":"welfare services industry, was"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2655.18,"endTime":2662.04,"body":"$25.2 billion in the year of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2655.18,"endTime":2662.04,"body":"someone else's Lord, 20, 23,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2665.04,"endTime":2670.08,"body":"billion, so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2665.04,"endTime":2670.08,"body":"human, human children are traded"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2670.26,"endTime":2677.28,"body":"on a market like commodities."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2670.26,"endTime":2677.28,"body":"Children are literal properties."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2678.66,"endTime":2682.28,"body":"Cool, cool, cool, cool. No"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2678.66,"endTime":2682.28,"body":"doubt, no doubt, no doubt, no"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2682.28,"endTime":2684.8,"body":"doubt. This is fine. Dot. GIF."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2686.84,"endTime":2688.58,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2686.84,"endTime":2688.58,"body":"Anyway, aside from that really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2688.58,"endTime":2692.18,"body":"depressing thing, so we've got"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2688.58,"endTime":2692.18,"body":"these two Jews, the Rutan rom"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2692.18,"endTime":2697.22,"body":"family or root and RAM. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2692.18,"endTime":2697.22,"body":"sure they're a hyphen, they're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2697.22,"endTime":2700.84,"body":"spelling. Well, we'll put their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2697.22,"endTime":2700.84,"body":"spelling in a. At the show notes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2702.22,"endTime":2706.3,"body":"in I'm gonna go with root and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2702.22,"endTime":2706.3,"body":"RAM versus Tennessee Department"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2706.3,"endTime":2709.18,"body":"of children's services. This is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2706.3,"endTime":2709.18,"body":"a lawsuit. The root and RAM"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2709.18,"endTime":2712.06,"body":"family are Jewish people. They"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2709.18,"endTime":2712.06,"body":"are a Jewish couple. They had"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2712.06,"endTime":2716.74,"body":"identified a child they wanted"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2712.06,"endTime":2716.74,"body":"to adopt in the state of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2716.74,"endTime":2720.36,"body":"Florida. Sure, we're not gonna"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2716.74,"endTime":2720.36,"body":"get into because I do not have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2720.36,"endTime":2724.86,"body":"the stomach for it. The websites"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2720.36,"endTime":2724.86,"body":"that advertise the children"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2724.86,"endTime":2729.48,"body":"available for adoption, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2724.86,"endTime":2729.48,"body":"fucking dogs society ad, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2729.48,"endTime":2732.6,"body":"pet finder, no. Like, get me the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2729.48,"endTime":2732.6,"body":"like in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2732.6,"endTime":2735.42,"body":"the arms of an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2732.6,"endTime":2735.42,"body":"angel. Like, just get me the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2735.42,"endTime":2735.6,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2735.6,"endTime":2737.22,"body":"Sarah"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2735.6,"endTime":2737.22,"body":"McLaughlin, soundtrack behind"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2737.22,"endTime":2742.04,"body":"it. But show me babies, and show"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2737.22,"endTime":2742.04,"body":"me predominantly children of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2742.04,"endTime":2747.56,"body":"color and children with"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2742.04,"endTime":2747.56,"body":"disabilities. Okay. Anyway, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2747.56,"endTime":2751.46,"body":"root and RAM family of Tennessee"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2747.56,"endTime":2751.46,"body":"has identified a child in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2751.46,"endTime":2759.74,"body":"Florida that they would like to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2751.46,"endTime":2759.74,"body":"adopt. In order to do that, they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2759.74,"endTime":2763.42,"body":"have to complete the process to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2759.74,"endTime":2763.42,"body":"become both Foster and permanent"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2763.42,"endTime":2767.26,"body":"parents in their home state."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2763.42,"endTime":2767.26,"body":"That's a pretty, pretty typical"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2767.26,"endTime":2769.6,"body":"thing. You're not allowed to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2767.26,"endTime":2769.6,"body":"start the adoption process"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2769.72,"endTime":2772.18,"body":"before you've been cleared by"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2769.72,"endTime":2772.18,"body":"the state that your home is a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2772.18,"endTime":2776.92,"body":"safe place to raise children."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2772.18,"endTime":2776.92,"body":"Again, the idea that this couple"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2776.92,"endTime":2780.04,"body":"couldn't have their own children"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2776.92,"endTime":2780.04,"body":"and so went shopping for one is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2780.04,"endTime":2783.84,"body":"super not okay with me, but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2780.04,"endTime":2783.84,"body":"that's not the issue currently."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2784.02,"endTime":2787.98,"body":"I just want us to hear how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2784.02,"endTime":2787.98,"body":"troubling the scenario is. In"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2787.98,"endTime":2791.64,"body":"Tennessee, they turned to an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2787.98,"endTime":2791.64,"body":"explicitly Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2791.64,"endTime":2795.78,"body":"organization, the Holston United"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2791.64,"endTime":2795.78,"body":"Methodist home for children. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2795.78,"endTime":2798.78,"body":"again, you might say, hey, Jews,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2795.78,"endTime":2798.78,"body":"what? What are you doing? Should"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2798.78,"endTime":2801.14,"body":"you know better than to play"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2798.78,"endTime":2801.14,"body":"with with Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2801.14,"endTime":2803.42,"body":"organizations. And I would say,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2801.14,"endTime":2803.42,"body":"Yeah, of course, they know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2803.42,"endTime":2808.7,"body":"better. But this is also one of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2803.42,"endTime":2808.7,"body":"those scenarios where we're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2808.7,"endTime":2814.88,"body":"going to both test the law and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2808.7,"endTime":2814.88,"body":"we might have limited resources,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2815.18,"endTime":2821.26,"body":"because Holston is a state"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2815.18,"endTime":2821.26,"body":"funded and state approved"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2821.74,"endTime":2826.3,"body":"agency. Okay, so the Tennessee"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2821.74,"endTime":2826.3,"body":"Department of Children's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2826.3,"endTime":2830.5,"body":"Services outsources who can"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2826.3,"endTime":2830.5,"body":"conduct their screening"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2830.5,"endTime":2835.36,"body":"processes. One of their partners"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2830.5,"endTime":2835.36,"body":"in this is the Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2835.36,"endTime":2839.8,"body":"organization, Holston, United"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2835.36,"endTime":2839.8,"body":"Methodist home for children,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2839.98,"endTime":2840.24,"body":"cool,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2840.24,"endTime":2842.1,"body":"which doesn't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2840.24,"endTime":2842.1,"body":"sound like an establishment of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2842.1,"endTime":2847.32,"body":"religion at all, like at all."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2842.1,"endTime":2847.32,"body":"Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2847.62,"endTime":2851.46,"body":"All right, so let me get this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2847.62,"endTime":2851.46,"body":"straight. A Jewish couple living"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2851.46,"endTime":2855.24,"body":"in Tennessee chose a Tennessee"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2851.46,"endTime":2855.24,"body":"approved and funded agency to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2855.24,"endTime":2858.66,"body":"conduct their strings to start"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2855.24,"endTime":2858.66,"body":"the adoption process, and then"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2858.66,"endTime":2861.44,"body":"the state affiliated religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2858.66,"endTime":2861.44,"body":"agency, Christian religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2861.44,"endTime":2865.88,"body":"Agency, said, Sorry, no, Yids."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2861.44,"endTime":2865.88,"body":"No. For listeners, this is an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2865.88,"endTime":2868.46,"body":"herb scripted episode. I don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2865.88,"endTime":2868.46,"body":"think I've ever said Yids in my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2868.46,"endTime":2870.2,"body":"life, but here we are all sob."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2871.64,"endTime":2873.56,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2871.64,"endTime":2873.56,"body":"mean, I purposely made it a slur"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2873.62,"endTime":2876.26,"body":"because I actually want, I want"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2873.62,"endTime":2876.26,"body":"us to hear like the No Irish"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2876.26,"endTime":2881.2,"body":"Need Apply. But yeah, before and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2876.26,"endTime":2881.2,"body":"like before we go ham on yelling"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2881.2,"endTime":2884.38,"body":"about Christian hubris, which"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2881.2,"endTime":2884.38,"body":"like could take another 40 years"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2884.38,"endTime":2889.6,"body":"of my life. It is vital to note"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2884.38,"endTime":2889.6,"body":"that the lawsuit is not against"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2889.66,"endTime":2892.84,"body":"the Holston United Methodist"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2889.66,"endTime":2892.84,"body":"home for children. It is against"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2892.84,"endTime":2896.32,"body":"the Tennessee Department of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2892.84,"endTime":2896.32,"body":"Children's Services precisely"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2896.32,"endTime":2902.52,"body":"because holston's discrimination"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2896.32,"endTime":2902.52,"body":"is explicitly sanctioned by a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2902.52,"endTime":2907.92,"body":"Tennessee law that authorizes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2902.52,"endTime":2907.92,"body":"child placing agencies to deny"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2907.92,"endTime":2913.38,"body":"services based on the agency's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2907.92,"endTime":2913.38,"body":"religious policies, even if"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2913.44,"endTime":2918.42,"body":"those services are funded and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2913.44,"endTime":2918.42,"body":"outsourced by state money. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2918.84,"endTime":2920.78,"body":"yeah. So that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2918.84,"endTime":2920.78,"body":"sounds like the lawsuit hinges"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2920.78,"endTime":2924.32,"body":"on the idea that the statute is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2920.78,"endTime":2924.32,"body":"unconstitutional, and the root"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2924.32,"endTime":2927.26,"body":"and rum family and their legal"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2924.32,"endTime":2927.26,"body":"representation provided by a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2927.26,"endTime":2930.14,"body":"secular organization, Americans"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2927.26,"endTime":2930.14,"body":"United for the separation of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2930.14,"endTime":2933.56,"body":"terms of the state they are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2930.14,"endTime":2933.56,"body":"setting about to make that law"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2933.56,"endTime":2934.22,"body":"go away."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2935.48,"endTime":2936.86,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2935.48,"endTime":2936.86,"body":"that's what I'm taking away from"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2936.86,"endTime":2940.16,"body":"this, definitely. And here's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2936.86,"endTime":2940.16,"body":"what I want everyone to hear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2940.34,"endTime":2945.22,"body":"here, the state outsources this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2940.34,"endTime":2945.22,"body":"work. The state pays for it. The"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2945.22,"endTime":2948.34,"body":"state allows the contract"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2945.22,"endTime":2948.34,"body":"holders, the agency here, to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2948.34,"endTime":2953.02,"body":"take taxpayer money from the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2948.34,"endTime":2953.02,"body":"root and RAM family, only to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2953.02,"endTime":2955.96,"body":"turn around and say that that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2953.02,"endTime":2955.96,"body":"family fails to meet the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2955.96,"endTime":2959.56,"body":"standard of buying or adopting a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2955.96,"endTime":2959.56,"body":"child, because that standard is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2959.56,"endTime":2964.08,"body":"being Christian. Now, I have no"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2959.56,"endTime":2964.08,"body":"clue. Truly, I can't find it in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2964.08,"endTime":2967.26,"body":"the literature. I can't find it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2964.08,"endTime":2967.26,"body":"in the research. I have no clue"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2967.32,"endTime":2972.6,"body":"if this particular Jewish couple"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2967.32,"endTime":2972.6,"body":"could have found a local or even"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2972.6,"endTime":2976.86,"body":"statewide Jewish organization I,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2972.6,"endTime":2976.86,"body":"or I don't know, like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2976.86,"endTime":2979.74,"body":"know someone more friendly, like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2976.86,"endTime":2979.74,"body":"the Unitarian, Universalist"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2980.1,"endTime":2983.42,"body":"thing, to do the adoption"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2980.1,"endTime":2983.42,"body":"paperwork, maybe they could have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2983.42,"endTime":2986.6,"body":"and maybe they should have, but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2983.42,"endTime":2986.6,"body":"the idea that a religious"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2986.6,"endTime":2989.66,"body":"organization can have state"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2986.6,"endTime":2989.66,"body":"funding and legal protections to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2989.66,"endTime":2997.7,"body":"say only Goys is so fucked up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2989.66,"endTime":2997.7,"body":"that I cannot quite calm my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2997.7,"endTime":3001.92,"body":"heart rate down. It is you."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2997.7,"endTime":3001.92,"body":"Messed up in every single"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3001.98,"endTime":3005.1,"body":"reason, including, but not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3001.98,"endTime":3005.1,"body":"limited to demography and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3005.1,"endTime":3009.06,"body":"history, right? Christians love"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3005.1,"endTime":3009.06,"body":"adoption agencies because they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3009.06,"endTime":3013.92,"body":"have 500 plus years of stealing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3009.06,"endTime":3013.92,"body":"children. They're at a debt."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3013.98,"endTime":3017.28,"body":"They're at an advantage here,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3013.98,"endTime":3017.28,"body":"clearly, Jews or other, any"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3017.28,"endTime":3021.14,"body":"other religious minority would"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3017.28,"endTime":3021.14,"body":"in this situation have to rely"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3021.14,"endTime":3025.88,"body":"on the existence of non"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3021.14,"endTime":3025.88,"body":"Christian adoption agencies, or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3025.88,"endTime":3029.06,"body":"as the root and RAM family"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3025.88,"endTime":3029.06,"body":"experienced to be denied the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3029.06,"endTime":3034.28,"body":"right to even start the process"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3029.06,"endTime":3034.28,"body":"of being declared fit to adopt."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3034.46,"endTime":3039.14,"body":"This is like out the gate your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3034.46,"endTime":3039.14,"body":"yarmulke denies you the right to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3039.14,"endTime":3043.9,"body":"try to adopt a child from across"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3039.14,"endTime":3043.9,"body":"state lines, for some reason"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3045.82,"endTime":3050.92,"body":"that just it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3045.82,"endTime":3050.92,"body":"feels so blatant, like, like,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3050.92,"endTime":3054.64,"body":"how is that possible? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3050.92,"endTime":3054.64,"body":"like, and however we feel about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3054.64,"endTime":3058.36,"body":"the adoption industry, not good,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3054.64,"endTime":3058.36,"body":"by the way. It seems problematic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3058.42,"endTime":3061.86,"body":"at best, that someone's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3058.42,"endTime":3061.86,"body":"religious views, identities,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3061.86,"endTime":3064.86,"body":"community of accountability and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3061.86,"endTime":3064.86,"body":"belonging would bar them from"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3064.86,"endTime":3067.74,"body":"even filing the paperwork. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3067.74,"endTime":3069.06,"body":"and I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3067.74,"endTime":3069.06,"body":"have to be honest. Like, as a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3069.06,"endTime":3072.9,"body":"total aside, there was a an an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3069.06,"endTime":3072.9,"body":"article that came out literally"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3072.9,"endTime":3076.08,"body":"yesterday with Religion News"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3072.9,"endTime":3076.08,"body":"Service by a rabbi, an orthodox"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3076.08,"endTime":3079.14,"body":"rabbi, who's like, I like this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3076.08,"endTime":3079.14,"body":"case. This is about religious"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3079.14,"endTime":3083.9,"body":"freedom. If Jews want to adopt"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3079.14,"endTime":3083.9,"body":"Jews. This is great, and I have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3083.9,"endTime":3089.66,"body":"never read something and thought"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3083.9,"endTime":3089.66,"body":"this person's a fucking idiot so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3089.66,"endTime":3096.02,"body":"quick in my entire life, because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3089.66,"endTime":3096.02,"body":"you can want your own community"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3096.02,"endTime":3099.38,"body":"to take in your own people. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3096.02,"endTime":3099.38,"body":"I think that that makes sense in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3099.38,"endTime":3103.24,"body":"ethno religion spaces in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3099.38,"endTime":3103.24,"body":"particular, right? And we're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3103.24,"endTime":3105.88,"body":"gonna, in the next episode, we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3103.24,"endTime":3105.88,"body":"talk about the ICWA. We're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3105.88,"endTime":3109.18,"body":"really talk about that as a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3105.88,"endTime":3109.18,"body":"hinge. We want native children"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3109.18,"endTime":3111.58,"body":"to stay with Native families,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3109.18,"endTime":3111.58,"body":"because the removal of native"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3111.58,"endTime":3115.18,"body":"children and the removal of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3111.58,"endTime":3115.18,"body":"Natal culture is literally"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3115.24,"endTime":3119.44,"body":"cultural genocide. Yeah, so how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3115.24,"endTime":3119.44,"body":"can you argue Elise out of one"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3119.44,"endTime":3121.92,"body":"side of your mouth that removing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3119.44,"endTime":3121.92,"body":"native children to white"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3121.92,"endTime":3125.28,"body":"families is bad, but allowing a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3121.92,"endTime":3125.28,"body":"Christian child to be raised by"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3125.28,"endTime":3128.46,"body":"a Jewish family is good,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3125.28,"endTime":3128.46,"body":"readers, you have missed the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3128.46,"endTime":3134.7,"body":"fucking point. The question"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3128.46,"endTime":3134.7,"body":"isn't whether like people should"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3134.7,"endTime":3140.42,"body":"be with like people. That's like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3134.7,"endTime":3140.42,"body":"a fraught hornet's nest. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3140.42,"endTime":3143.78,"body":"rule number one in that is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3140.42,"endTime":3143.78,"body":"always punch up, right?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3143.78,"endTime":3146.24,"body":"Christians be stealing natives"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3143.78,"endTime":3146.24,"body":"on purpose to remove their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3146.24,"endTime":3150.26,"body":"culture. Ergo, you lost the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3146.24,"endTime":3150.26,"body":"right to adopt those natives."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3150.32,"endTime":3154.28,"body":"Yes, get your own babies"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3150.32,"endTime":3154.28,"body":"somewhere else, right? You punch"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3154.28,"endTime":3158.42,"body":"up, not down. But the second"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3154.28,"endTime":3158.42,"body":"thing here, though, is that, why"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3158.42,"endTime":3162.7,"body":"is the state of Tennessee"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3158.42,"endTime":3162.7,"body":"outsourcing the state's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3162.7,"endTime":3167.98,"body":"obligation to vet parents for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3162.7,"endTime":3167.98,"body":"fitness. And why are we trusting"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3168.04,"endTime":3170.5,"body":"churchmen with that job? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3170.98,"endTime":3172.48,"body":"yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3172.6,"endTime":3175.54,"body":"how?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3172.6,"endTime":3175.54,"body":"What is the burden there? How"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3175.54,"endTime":3177.1,"body":"many Jews are in Tennessee?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3178.42,"endTime":3181.68,"body":"Well, two, at"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3178.42,"endTime":3181.68,"body":"least, at least two, but they're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3181.68,"endTime":3184.8,"body":"actively trying to keep there"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3181.68,"endTime":3184.8,"body":"from being a third. Apparently."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3185.22,"endTime":3185.7,"body":"Why"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3185.7,"endTime":3187.5,"body":"do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3185.7,"endTime":3187.5,"body":"Jews in Tennessee need to have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3187.5,"endTime":3190.92,"body":"their own adoption organization"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3187.5,"endTime":3190.92,"body":"with credentialed people that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3190.92,"endTime":3194.52,"body":"are allowed and certified to do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3190.92,"endTime":3194.52,"body":"those assessments to make sure"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3194.52,"endTime":3199.44,"body":"that those parents could be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3194.52,"endTime":3199.44,"body":"adoptive parents? Yeah, why are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3199.44,"endTime":3204.86,"body":"we relying on private nonprofit"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3199.44,"endTime":3204.86,"body":"organizations with religious and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3204.86,"endTime":3209.54,"body":"can like values attached to them"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3204.86,"endTime":3209.54,"body":"to do the work that the state is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3209.54,"endTime":3213.8,"body":"saying is mandatory. That is the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3209.54,"endTime":3213.8,"body":"religious freedom question."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3214.64,"endTime":3218.54,"body":"Because in this case, which"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3214.64,"endTime":3218.54,"body":"seems open and shut to me and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3218.54,"endTime":3223.36,"body":"yet, and yet, I have a feeling"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3218.54,"endTime":3223.36,"body":"it won't be Yep, but which seems"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3223.36,"endTime":3226.24,"body":"open and shut to me is the state"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3223.36,"endTime":3226.24,"body":"of Tennessee has no business"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3226.3,"endTime":3230.68,"body":"endorsing one particular"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3226.3,"endTime":3230.68,"body":"worldview or allowing anyone on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3230.68,"endTime":3234.04,"body":"its roster so that, like, if in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3230.68,"endTime":3234.04,"body":"my neck of the woods in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3234.04,"endTime":3237.88,"body":"Tennessee, there is only two"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3234.04,"endTime":3237.88,"body":"adoption agencies, and the one"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3237.88,"endTime":3241.56,"body":"that can see me faster is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3237.88,"endTime":3241.56,"body":"goyesha, and they're like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3241.56,"endTime":3247.62,"body":"sorry, it's Jesus or the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3241.56,"endTime":3247.62,"body":"highway. That's messed up. Yes."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3247.68,"endTime":3249.6,"body":"And again, feels"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3247.68,"endTime":3249.6,"body":"like an establishment of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3249.6,"endTime":3252.42,"body":"religion, which is the very"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3249.6,"endTime":3252.42,"body":"first thing that the Bill of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3252.42,"endTime":3256.26,"body":"Rights says we can't do"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3252.42,"endTime":3256.26,"body":"governmentally. You don't get to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3256.26,"endTime":3259.38,"body":"pick sides. So it just, it seems"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3256.26,"endTime":3259.38,"body":"like a very clear First"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3259.38,"endTime":3263.6,"body":"Amendment violation. But again,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3259.38,"endTime":3263.6,"body":"with with this country, in this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3263.6,"endTime":3265.28,"body":"moment, who can say, and again,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3265.28,"endTime":3267.08,"body":"none"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3265.28,"endTime":3267.08,"body":"of this is actually taking into"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3267.08,"endTime":3270.38,"body":"account the children. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3267.08,"endTime":3270.38,"body":"okay, the adoptees here are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3270.38,"endTime":3273.68,"body":"absent. Yeah, Jessica, not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3270.38,"endTime":3273.68,"body":"related to Norman Bates in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3273.68,"endTime":3277.82,"body":"Oregon, feels entitled to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3273.68,"endTime":3277.82,"body":"children and is mad that the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3277.82,"endTime":3282.7,"body":"state doesn't doesn't let her"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3277.82,"endTime":3282.7,"body":"have them. Yeah, the rut and RAM"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3282.7,"endTime":3287.5,"body":"family is stuck working through"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3282.7,"endTime":3287.5,"body":"Tennessee's system, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3287.5,"endTime":3292.0,"body":"Tennessee's system explicitly"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3287.5,"endTime":3292.0,"body":"says it's super okay if our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3292.0,"endTime":3295.6,"body":"assessing organizations"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3292.0,"endTime":3295.6,"body":"discriminate based on religion,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3295.96,"endTime":3299.68,"body":"cool. None of that's about the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3295.96,"endTime":3299.68,"body":"children, none of that is about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3299.68,"endTime":3304.26,"body":"the. Child that, in theory, is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3299.68,"endTime":3304.26,"body":"the problem that needs solving."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3304.26,"endTime":3308.04,"body":"A child without a parent or a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3304.26,"endTime":3308.04,"body":"guardian, requires one and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3308.04,"endTime":3311.94,"body":"people out here bickering on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3308.04,"endTime":3311.94,"body":"Main about which child they're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3311.94,"endTime":3312.78,"body":"entitled. It's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3313.32,"endTime":3317.52,"body":"solve a problem"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3313.32,"endTime":3317.52,"body":"like an adopter. Reno, anyway."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3317.52,"endTime":3317.58,"body":"Oh."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3326.6,"endTime":3328.52,"body":"Lady,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3326.6,"endTime":3328.52,"body":"we have barely scratched the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3328.52,"endTime":3331.16,"body":"surface, but I am mindful that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3328.52,"endTime":3331.16,"body":"it's time for us to wrap up. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3331.16,"endTime":3337.46,"body":"here are my takeaways for this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3331.16,"endTime":3337.46,"body":"episode. Religious Freedom and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3337.46,"endTime":3341.74,"body":"adoption are utterly tied up."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3337.46,"endTime":3341.74,"body":"Point the first, yep. Point two,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3341.74,"endTime":3345.16,"body":"recent lawsuits, test cases or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3341.74,"endTime":3345.16,"body":"not demonstrate how blurry the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3345.16,"endTime":3350.38,"body":"line between state and church"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3345.16,"endTime":3350.38,"body":"actually are. Third point is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3350.38,"endTime":3353.32,"body":"that religious freedom of the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3350.38,"endTime":3353.32,"body":"fucking child is not part of the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3353.32,"endTime":3356.86,"body":"story. Jessica Bates, her"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3353.32,"endTime":3356.86,"body":"wishes, her concerns, her"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3356.86,"endTime":3362.34,"body":"demands, are the primary"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3356.86,"endTime":3362.34,"body":"concern. And with the written"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3362.34,"endTime":3365.16,"body":"RAM family, I don't know what it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3362.34,"endTime":3365.16,"body":"means that they identified a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3365.16,"endTime":3367.92,"body":"child to adopt. And in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3365.16,"endTime":3367.92,"body":"the literature, it says they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3367.92,"endTime":3370.32,"body":"adopt, they identified a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3367.92,"endTime":3370.32,"body":"disabled child to adopt. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3370.32,"endTime":3372.54,"body":"there's like, some fucked up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3370.32,"endTime":3372.54,"body":"stuff going on there, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3372.54,"endTime":3374.58,"body":"going to leave that horn. It"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3372.54,"endTime":3374.58,"body":"says for another therapy"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3374.58,"endTime":3377.64,"body":"session. But they didn't even"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3374.58,"endTime":3377.64,"body":"get to the point of being"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3377.64,"endTime":3382.04,"body":"screened for adoption based on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3377.64,"endTime":3382.04,"body":"their religion alone. Their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3382.04,"endTime":3385.7,"body":"religion alone made it possible"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3382.04,"endTime":3385.7,"body":"to say, No thanks, babes. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3385.7,"endTime":3390.14,"body":"the fourth point here is that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3385.7,"endTime":3390.14,"body":"adoption cannot be separated out"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3390.14,"endTime":3394.52,"body":"from religion because the system"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3390.14,"endTime":3394.52,"body":"of adoption is part of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3394.52,"endTime":3397.52,"body":"governments. The churches are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3394.52,"endTime":3397.52,"body":"all up in there, and how we are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3397.52,"endTime":3401.62,"body":"thinking about values is being"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3397.52,"endTime":3401.62,"body":"as being threatened by folks who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3401.62,"endTime":3404.92,"body":"want to use their religion to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3401.62,"endTime":3404.92,"body":"abuse children is also present"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3405.4,"endTime":3407.92,"body":"before you yell at me, dear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3405.4,"endTime":3407.92,"body":"nerds, as a parent, as an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3407.92,"endTime":3410.98,"body":"adoptee, as a human, if you do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3407.92,"endTime":3410.98,"body":"not think that it is abusive and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3410.98,"endTime":3414.52,"body":"harmful to refuse to use a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3410.98,"endTime":3414.52,"body":"child's preferred pronouns raise"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3414.52,"endTime":3417.46,"body":"them to understand their own"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3414.52,"endTime":3417.46,"body":"bodies and minds, then you're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3417.46,"endTime":3420.04,"body":"mistaken. And honestly, I hope"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3417.46,"endTime":3420.04,"body":"you don't have kids biological"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3420.04,"endTime":3423.66,"body":"or otherwise. And frankly, lose"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3420.04,"endTime":3423.66,"body":"our number. That's real. That's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3423.84,"endTime":3426.12,"body":"not the community"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3423.84,"endTime":3426.12,"body":"we're cultivating. You can't sit"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3426.12,"endTime":3428.88,"body":"with us? Yeah, no, I love it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3426.12,"endTime":3428.88,"body":"when you're in full fuck 'em up"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3428.88,"endTime":3429.18,"body":"mode."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3429.42,"endTime":3434.16,"body":"Fuck"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3429.42,"endTime":3434.16,"body":"'em up link, listen like imagine"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3434.16,"endTime":3437.46,"body":"you're a bunch of siblings in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3434.16,"endTime":3437.46,"body":"foster care. Imagine how much"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3437.46,"endTime":3443.0,"body":"you have survived to be there,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3437.46,"endTime":3443.0,"body":"and then imagine some crazy ass"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3443.0,"endTime":3448.4,"body":"bitch with her Pumpkin Spice"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3443.0,"endTime":3448.4,"body":"Latte has a calling, and that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3448.4,"endTime":3451.04,"body":"calling is to what, make sure"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3448.4,"endTime":3451.04,"body":"you're not gay anymore."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3451.1,"endTime":3452.72,"body":"No, she's gonna"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3451.1,"endTime":3452.72,"body":"live. Laugh, love the gay out of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3452.72,"endTime":3452.96,"body":"you,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3454.4,"endTime":3456.08,"body":"like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3454.4,"endTime":3456.08,"body":"if this is you, then you've"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3456.08,"endTime":3459.86,"body":"misunderstood the assignment."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3456.08,"endTime":3459.86,"body":"Molding a child in your own"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3459.86,"endTime":3463.36,"body":"image is hubristic on a good"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3459.86,"endTime":3463.36,"body":"day, it's messed up when that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3463.36,"endTime":3465.94,"body":"child shouldn't look like you."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3463.36,"endTime":3465.94,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3469.36,"endTime":3472.0,"body":"All right. Well,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3469.36,"endTime":3472.0,"body":"on that note, let us remind you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3472.0,"endTime":3475.06,"body":"that next time we're talking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3472.0,"endTime":3475.06,"body":"about child removal, the ICWA"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3475.06,"endTime":3478.36,"body":"and native communities. And as a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3475.06,"endTime":3478.36,"body":"special treat, we are being"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3478.36,"endTime":3480.66,"body":"joined by the director and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3478.36,"endTime":3480.66,"body":"founder of the Duke Native"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3480.66,"endTime":3483.42,"body":"American Studies Initiative,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3480.66,"endTime":3483.42,"body":"enrolled member of the Cherokee"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3483.42,"endTime":3486.6,"body":"Nation and cultural"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3483.42,"endTime":3486.6,"body":"anthropologist Dr Courtney"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3486.6,"endTime":3490.32,"body":"Lewis. Dr Lewis will help us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3486.6,"endTime":3490.32,"body":"situate the ICWA and the broader"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3490.32,"endTime":3493.74,"body":"contexts of adoption Native"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3490.32,"endTime":3493.74,"body":"American history and experiences"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3493.74,"endTime":3496.38,"body":"her own life and lineage and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3493.74,"endTime":3496.38,"body":"religion. But"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3497.58,"endTime":3499.38,"body":"before"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3497.58,"endTime":3499.38,"body":"we go, a few items of homework."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3499.38,"endTime":3502.4,"body":"Homework. What homework? And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3499.38,"endTime":3502.4,"body":"just like in the last episode,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3502.4,"endTime":3504.74,"body":"there's a lot that I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3502.4,"endTime":3504.74,"body":"list in the show notes that I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3504.74,"endTime":3507.86,"body":"not gonna say right now, in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3504.74,"endTime":3507.86,"body":"particular, I'm gonna throw a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3507.86,"endTime":3510.98,"body":"bunch of adoption podcasts on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3507.86,"endTime":3510.98,"body":"there, because there's really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3510.98,"endTime":3514.82,"body":"cool work being done by a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3510.98,"endTime":3514.82,"body":"cool people. But a thing that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3514.82,"endTime":3518.84,"body":"you should read or should look"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3514.82,"endTime":3518.84,"body":"at, get your eyeballs on, is Dan"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3518.84,"endTime":3523.84,"body":"rather's 2012 expose on adoption"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3518.84,"endTime":3523.84,"body":"or abduction. It's available."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3523.84,"endTime":3529.9,"body":"It's it's pretty great, and it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3523.84,"endTime":3529.9,"body":"streaming. I really like a Time"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3529.9,"endTime":3536.2,"body":"magazine article from not that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3529.9,"endTime":3536.2,"body":"long ago about private adoption"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3536.2,"endTime":3541.2,"body":"profits and how shady it is to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3536.2,"endTime":3541.2,"body":"figure out it traces a woman who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3541.2,"endTime":3544.62,"body":"gave her child up for adoption"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3541.2,"endTime":3544.62,"body":"under duress and very quickly"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3544.62,"endTime":3547.86,"body":"changed her mind, and then it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3544.62,"endTime":3547.86,"body":"was unclear what to do next,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3547.86,"endTime":3552.9,"body":"except to try to buy her baby"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3547.86,"endTime":3552.9,"body":"back. Jesus, really heavy"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3552.9,"endTime":3557.58,"body":"trigger warnings, but a really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3552.9,"endTime":3557.58,"body":"smart expose. There's also a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3557.58,"endTime":3561.56,"body":"really great PBS set of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3557.58,"endTime":3561.56,"body":"resources on the history of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3561.56,"endTime":3564.38,"body":"adoption in the United States,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3561.56,"endTime":3564.38,"body":"which includes a timeline and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3564.38,"endTime":3570.02,"body":"some interactive website stuff,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3564.38,"endTime":3570.02,"body":"which I'll link us to, and my my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3570.02,"endTime":3575.24,"body":"favorite is, is a lot of stuff"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3570.02,"endTime":3575.24,"body":"on the orphan trains and their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3575.24,"endTime":3580.54,"body":"use in the americanizing of Jews"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3575.24,"endTime":3580.54,"body":"and Catholics, which We did not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3580.54,"endTime":3585.1,"body":"talk about but please, picture a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3580.54,"endTime":3585.1,"body":"train picking up in major cities"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3586.24,"endTime":3589.66,"body":"until 1929 when the stock market"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3586.24,"endTime":3589.66,"body":"crashed and they couldn't afford"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3589.66,"endTime":3592.96,"body":"anywhere from like the 1870s"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3589.66,"endTime":3592.96,"body":"till the 1920s and people were"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3592.96,"endTime":3596.2,"body":"like, all aboard, get on the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3592.96,"endTime":3596.2,"body":"orphan train, and then they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3596.2,"endTime":3598.66,"body":"would stop in little cities, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3596.2,"endTime":3598.66,"body":"they would put the children on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3598.66,"endTime":3601.26,"body":"the platform, and they'd say,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3598.66,"endTime":3601.26,"body":"Okay. Good people. Which ones do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3601.26,"endTime":3603.54,"body":"you want? And they were mostly"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3601.26,"endTime":3603.54,"body":"Catholics and Jews, and all the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3603.54,"endTime":3606.24,"body":"white people were like me. I'll"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3603.54,"endTime":3606.24,"body":"take a GID. I'll have one of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3606.24,"endTime":3609.42,"body":"those Catholics, and then then"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3606.24,"endTime":3609.42,"body":"you raised them good and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3609.42,"endTime":3613.44,"body":"Protestant. So that's a treat,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3609.42,"endTime":3613.44,"body":"and you should read about it,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3613.44,"endTime":3618.72,"body":"because it's sad. Goodman. Do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3613.44,"endTime":3618.72,"body":"you have any homework for our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3618.72,"endTime":3619.08,"body":"nerds?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3619.5,"endTime":3621.18,"body":"I am just going"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3619.5,"endTime":3621.18,"body":"to add that I thought the film"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3621.18,"endTime":3624.44,"body":"Philomena, which came out in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3621.18,"endTime":3624.44,"body":"2013 did a really excellent and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3624.44,"endTime":3627.5,"body":"compassionate job of bringing to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3624.44,"endTime":3627.5,"body":"like the heartbreaking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3627.5,"endTime":3629.84,"body":"experience of trying to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3627.5,"endTime":3629.84,"body":"reconnect with a birth family"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3629.84,"endTime":3632.36,"body":"after your child has been"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3629.84,"endTime":3632.36,"body":"trafficked by Catholic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3632.36,"endTime":3640.1,"body":"institutions. Yakers, anyway,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3632.36,"endTime":3640.1,"body":"yeah, you can find us across"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3640.1,"endTime":3642.76,"body":"social media. We're still on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3640.1,"endTime":3642.76,"body":"Twitter, reluctantly and Insta"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3642.76,"endTime":3645.34,"body":"and Tiktok and Facebook, and if"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3642.76,"endTime":3645.34,"body":"none of that trains your"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3645.34,"endTime":3649.42,"body":"orphans, we have a newsletter"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3645.34,"endTime":3649.42,"body":"you can join via our website,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3649.42,"endTime":3652.6,"body":"which is keeping it one, oh"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3649.42,"endTime":3652.6,"body":"one.com, drop us a rating or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3652.6,"endTime":3654.58,"body":"review in your podcaster of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3652.6,"endTime":3654.58,"body":"choice. If"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3654.58,"endTime":3656.14,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3654.58,"endTime":3656.14,"body":"want to invite us to your campus"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3656.14,"endTime":3659.38,"body":"or your local bookstore to talk"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3656.14,"endTime":3659.38,"body":"about the podcast or our book,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3659.38,"endTime":3662.4,"body":"religion is not done with you,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3659.38,"endTime":3662.4,"body":"please, please, please, reach"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3662.4,"endTime":3666.3,"body":"out to us directly, or better"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3662.4,"endTime":3666.3,"body":"yet, hit up Caitlin Meyer, who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3666.3,"endTime":3669.24,"body":"is our incredible marketing and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3666.3,"endTime":3669.24,"body":"publicity Maven over at Beacon"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3669.24,"endTime":3674.64,"body":"Press. All of those contact data"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3669.24,"endTime":3674.64,"body":"is on our website, and with"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3674.64,"endTime":3676.98,"body":"that, peace out orphans."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3678.66,"endTime":3682.16,"body":"Do your homework."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3678.66,"endTime":3682.16,"body":"Adopt syllabus. You can do it on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3682.16,"endTime":3683.96,"body":"the train. We're so fucked up."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3682.16,"endTime":3683.96,"body":"You"}]}