{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":17.67,"endTime":19.74,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":17.67,"endTime":19.74,"body":"is Keeping it 101, a killjoy's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":19.77,"endTime":22.83,"body":"introduction to religion"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":19.77,"endTime":22.83,"body":"podcast. This season our work is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":22.83,"endTime":25.41,"body":"made possible in part through a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":22.83,"endTime":25.41,"body":"generous grant from the New"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":25.41,"endTime":28.86,"body":"England Humanities Consortium,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":25.41,"endTime":28.86,"body":"and with additional support from"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":28.86,"endTime":32.13,"body":"the University of Vermont's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":28.86,"endTime":32.13,"body":"Humanities Center. We are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":32.13,"endTime":35.37,"body":"grateful to live, teach, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":32.13,"endTime":35.37,"body":"record on the ancestral and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":35.37,"endTime":40.14,"body":"unseeded lands of the Abenaki,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":35.37,"endTime":40.14,"body":"Wabenaki, and Aucocisco peoples."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":40.62,"endTime":44.01,"body":"What's up, nerds?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":40.62,"endTime":44.01,"body":"Hi, hello, I'm Megan Goodwin, a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":44.01,"endTime":47.19,"body":"scholar of American religions,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":44.01,"endTime":47.19,"body":"race, and gender, and barely"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":47.19,"endTime":50.07,"body":"able to contain my excitement"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":47.19,"endTime":50.07,"body":"over today's episode (Ilyse"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":50.07,"endTime":51.66,"body":"wrote that part, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":50.07,"endTime":51.66,"body":"actually containing my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":51.66,"endTime":52.35,"body":"excitement at all)."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":53.04,"endTime":54.96,"body":"Hi,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":53.04,"endTime":54.96,"body":"hello, I'm Ilyse Morgenstein"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":54.96,"endTime":58.26,"body":"Fuerst, a scholar of religion,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":54.96,"endTime":58.26,"body":"Islam, race and racialization,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":58.26,"endTime":62.52,"body":"and history and I am similarly"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":58.26,"endTime":62.52,"body":"elated to get into it today."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":63.12,"endTime":65.37,"body":"We are thrilled"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":63.12,"endTime":65.37,"body":"because none other than Judith"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":65.37,"endTime":68.25,"body":"Weisenfeld is here with us to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":65.37,"endTime":68.25,"body":"talk all things race, gender,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":68.25,"endTime":72.48,"body":"and religion. Let's give her the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":68.25,"endTime":72.48,"body":"proper introduction she"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":72.48,"endTime":75.6,"body":"deserves. Professor Weisenfeld"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":72.48,"endTime":75.6,"body":"teaches in the department of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":75.6,"endTime":78.42,"body":"religion- I believe she's the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":75.6,"endTime":78.42,"body":"chair of the department of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":78.42,"endTime":81.21,"body":"religion at Princeton"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":78.42,"endTime":81.21,"body":"University- where she is also"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":81.21,"endTime":84.39,"body":"the Agate Brown and George L."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":81.21,"endTime":84.39,"body":"Collord Professor of Religion."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":84.63,"endTime":87.36,"body":"She's Associated Faculty in the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":84.63,"endTime":87.36,"body":"department of African American"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":87.36,"endTime":90.21,"body":"Studies and the program in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":87.36,"endTime":90.21,"body":"Gender and Sexuality Studies."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":90.6,"endTime":93.09,"body":"Professor Weisenfeld holds"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":90.6,"endTime":93.09,"body":"national top honors as an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":93.09,"endTime":96.3,"body":"elected member of the American"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":93.09,"endTime":96.3,"body":"Academy of Arts and Sciences and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":96.3,"endTime":99.15,"body":"the Society of American"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":96.3,"endTime":99.15,"body":"Historians. In short, she is a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":99.15,"endTime":104.73,"body":"brilliant scholar of whom we are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":99.15,"endTime":104.73,"body":"not worthy. She's here not only"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":104.76,"endTime":107.28,"body":"because of her incredible"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":104.76,"endTime":107.28,"body":"accolades and positions, but"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":107.28,"endTime":109.74,"body":"because of her mind-blowing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":107.28,"endTime":109.74,"body":"vital work which you, dear"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":109.74,"endTime":112.26,"body":"nerds, have already heard us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":109.74,"endTime":112.26,"body":"cite before and use as our"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":112.26,"endTime":115.38,"body":"storytime in episode 201. So"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":112.26,"endTime":115.38,"body":"maybe you already know that her"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":115.38,"endTime":118.02,"body":"work focuses on early 20th"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":115.38,"endTime":118.02,"body":"century African American"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":118.02,"endTime":120.66,"body":"religious history, especially"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":118.02,"endTime":120.66,"body":"how religion relates to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":120.66,"endTime":123.57,"body":"constructions of race, black"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":120.66,"endTime":123.57,"body":"religious life, migration,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":123.57,"endTime":126.54,"body":"immigration and urbanization,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":123.57,"endTime":126.54,"body":"African American women's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":126.54,"endTime":129.27,"body":"religious history, and religion"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":126.54,"endTime":129.27,"body":"and film and popular culture."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":130.86,"endTime":134.1,"body":"We are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":130.86,"endTime":134.1,"body":"so thrilled to welcome you to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":134.1,"endTime":138.57,"body":"the pod, can we establish though"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":134.1,"endTime":138.57,"body":"outright? Would you prefer that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":138.57,"endTime":140.85,"body":"we call you professor Weisenfeld"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":138.57,"endTime":140.85,"body":"or Judith?"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":141.9,"endTime":144.24,"body":"Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":141.9,"endTime":144.24,"body":"much for inviting me. I'm really"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":144.24,"endTime":147.03,"body":"excited to be here. And I would"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":144.24,"endTime":147.03,"body":"much prefer if you call me"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":147.03,"endTime":147.42,"body":"Judith."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":147.84,"endTime":152.04,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":147.84,"endTime":152.04,"body":"you got it! Um, so why don't we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":152.04,"endTime":156.93,"body":"dive in? This is meant to be a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":152.04,"endTime":156.93,"body":"free-flowing chat. And so I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":156.93,"endTime":159.45,"body":"going to give us a little, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":156.93,"endTime":159.45,"body":"segment header but then let's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":159.45,"endTime":165.84,"body":"jump in. Keeping it 101 on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":159.45,"endTime":165.84,"body":"today: the segment where we do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":165.84,"endTime":171.75,"body":"Professor work. Oh, man, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":165.84,"endTime":171.75,"body":"live ton- tongue snap with,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":171.75,"endTime":175.71,"body":"like, Judith Weisenfeld on the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":171.75,"endTime":175.71,"body":"line? Is just... goofy? I feel"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":175.74,"endTime":176.34,"body":"goofy."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":176.73,"endTime":178.83,"body":"I love your"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":176.73,"endTime":178.83,"body":"commitment to the bit, I respect"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":178.83,"endTime":179.16,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":179.28,"endTime":180.96,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":179.28,"endTime":180.96,"body":"know, I'm not a shticky Jew for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":180.96,"endTime":181.47,"body":"nothing."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":183.48,"endTime":185.34,"body":"I'm here for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":183.48,"endTime":185.34,"body":"all the bits, you know."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":186.36,"endTime":188.61,"body":"Cool,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":186.36,"endTime":188.61,"body":"we appreciate it so much. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":188.7,"endTime":191.79,"body":"so I'm gonna- I'm just gonna"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":188.7,"endTime":191.79,"body":"jump in, Megan, are you good"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":191.79,"endTime":192.27,"body":"with that?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":192.48,"endTime":193.23,"body":"I'm great with"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":192.48,"endTime":193.23,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":193.44,"endTime":196.29,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":193.44,"endTime":196.29,"body":"So like, obviously, this is a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":196.29,"endTime":198.93,"body":"killjoy's introduction to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":196.29,"endTime":198.93,"body":"religion podcast, that's how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":198.93,"endTime":204.45,"body":"we're pitching ourselves"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":198.93,"endTime":204.45,"body":"after... oh, I guess 18 or 20"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":204.48,"endTime":205.53,"body":"episodes now."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":205.68,"endTime":209.52,"body":"So Judith, we want to ask you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":205.68,"endTime":209.52,"body":"how you came to religious"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":209.52,"endTime":211.41,"body":"studies? Why religion?"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":213.96,"endTime":216.57,"body":"I came to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":213.96,"endTime":216.57,"body":"religious studies in the way"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":216.57,"endTime":219.96,"body":"lots of- lots of us did, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":216.57,"endTime":219.96,"body":"think, in that I had no idea"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":219.96,"endTime":222.3,"body":"there was such a thing as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":219.96,"endTime":222.3,"body":"religious studies when I went to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":222.3,"endTime":227.79,"body":"college. I went to Barnard"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":222.3,"endTime":227.79,"body":"College. And I really- I didn't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":227.79,"endTime":231.39,"body":"know what I wanted to do. I had"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":227.79,"endTime":231.39,"body":"had vague plans of going to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":231.39,"endTime":235.32,"body":"engineering school, actually,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":231.39,"endTime":235.32,"body":"one of my older brothers is an"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":235.32,"endTime":239.01,"body":"engineer. And I was interested"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":235.32,"endTime":239.01,"body":"in it, but not, I think, not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":239.01,"endTime":242.16,"body":"very good at the physics and all"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":239.01,"endTime":242.16,"body":"of those kinds of things, uh,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":242.97,"endTime":246.87,"body":"that were necessary. But, so I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":242.97,"endTime":246.87,"body":"went to- to college for a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":246.87,"endTime":251.01,"body":"general liberal arts education"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":246.87,"endTime":251.01,"body":"to see what- what there was to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":251.01,"endTime":253.86,"body":"know and what was interesting"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":251.01,"endTime":253.86,"body":"and I took some religion"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":253.86,"endTime":258.84,"body":"courses, that, um, some of which"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":253.86,"endTime":258.84,"body":"I wasn't interested in, and some"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":258.84,"endTime":265.17,"body":"of which did actually excite me."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":258.84,"endTime":265.17,"body":"Um, and as- as- I was excited"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":265.17,"endTime":272.04,"body":"about, um- about the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":265.17,"endTime":272.04,"body":"interdisciplinarity of Religious"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":272.04,"endTime":276.81,"body":"Studies, is kind of what really"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":272.04,"endTime":276.81,"body":"hooked me in terms of a context"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":276.81,"endTime":283.5,"body":"in which I could pursue art and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":276.81,"endTime":283.5,"body":"politics and history and think"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":283.5,"endTime":288.09,"body":"about music and- and it became"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":283.5,"endTime":288.09,"body":"clear to me as I went along,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":288.09,"endTime":294.87,"body":"that it was giving me the same"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":288.09,"endTime":294.87,"body":"kinds of skills that other kinds"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":294.87,"endTime":298.32,"body":"of liberal arts degrees were in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":294.87,"endTime":298.32,"body":"terms of critical writing and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":298.32,"endTime":302.73,"body":"reading and thinking about how"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":298.32,"endTime":302.73,"body":"to evaluate things in the past"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":302.73,"endTime":307.5,"body":"and the present. And so, um,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":302.73,"endTime":307.5,"body":"just as a- as a field, I found"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":307.5,"endTime":312.27,"body":"it really engaging and I- it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":307.5,"endTime":312.27,"body":"really stuck, for me. I think I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":312.27,"endTime":319.5,"body":"decided to major in religion"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":312.27,"endTime":319.5,"body":"right around the time, uh, the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":319.53,"endTime":324.3,"body":"protests for divestment from"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":319.53,"endTime":324.3,"body":"South Africa were going on, so"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":324.3,"endTime":329.49,"body":"that was- that was my junior"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":324.3,"endTime":329.49,"body":"year of college. Two things came"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":329.49,"endTime":333.39,"body":"together, one that. I was very"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":329.49,"endTime":333.39,"body":"involved in- in the divestment"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":333.39,"endTime":338.97,"body":"protests on campus, and starting"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":333.39,"endTime":338.97,"body":"to see connections between what"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":338.97,"endTime":343.02,"body":"I was studying and- and what was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":338.97,"endTime":343.02,"body":"going on around me. So thinking"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":343.02,"endTime":346.53,"body":"a lot about how religion"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":343.02,"endTime":346.53,"body":"informed politics and activism."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":347.01,"endTime":351.39,"body":"And I was fortunate at- at that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":347.01,"endTime":351.39,"body":"time that a visitor came to the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":351.39,"endTime":354.81,"body":"department at Barnard College,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":351.39,"endTime":354.81,"body":"Robert Baum, he's now a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":354.81,"endTime":359.13,"body":"Professor in Religion and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":354.81,"endTime":359.13,"body":"African and African American"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":359.13,"endTime":362.19,"body":"Studies at Dartmouth College."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":359.13,"endTime":362.19,"body":"And he was finishing his degree"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":362.19,"endTime":365.34,"body":"in history at Yale at the time,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":362.19,"endTime":365.34,"body":"and he's a historian of religion"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":365.34,"endTime":370.2,"body":"in Africa, and he was teaching"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":365.34,"endTime":370.2,"body":"courses on African religions,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":370.44,"endTime":373.83,"body":"some African American religions,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":370.44,"endTime":373.83,"body":"I was mostly interested in early"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":373.83,"endTime":377.34,"body":"Christianity in my studies in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":373.83,"endTime":377.34,"body":"the department up until then."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":378.06,"endTime":381.9,"body":"And he taught a course called"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":378.06,"endTime":381.9,"body":"\"Religion in Racially Stratified"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":381.9,"endTime":385.86,"body":"Societies.\" It was a comparative"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":381.9,"endTime":385.86,"body":"course of the US and South"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":385.86,"endTime":390.03,"body":"Africa, on religion. And that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":385.86,"endTime":390.03,"body":"was the course that really"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":390.03,"endTime":396.6,"body":"changed my life, and got me into"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":390.03,"endTime":396.6,"body":"what I what I study now. But my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":396.6,"endTime":400.83,"body":"senior thesis as an"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":396.6,"endTime":400.83,"body":"undergraduate was on how- how"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":400.83,"endTime":404.16,"body":"black theology- how James Cohn"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":400.83,"endTime":404.16,"body":"and black theology movement"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":404.43,"endTime":409.2,"body":"influenced anti-apartheid work"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":404.43,"endTime":409.2,"body":"in South Africa."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":409.68,"endTime":410.31,"body":"Oh, wow."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":410.37,"endTime":414.09,"body":"So it just-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":410.37,"endTime":414.09,"body":"it was happenstance that kind of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":414.09,"endTime":417.06,"body":"set me on this particular"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":414.09,"endTime":417.06,"body":"course, and I'm grateful, you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":417.06,"endTime":420.0,"body":"know, I'm still friends with"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":417.06,"endTime":420.0,"body":"Bob. And he's been a great"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":420.0,"endTime":423.57,"body":"supporter of me all these years."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":420.0,"endTime":423.57,"body":"And it just- he just happened to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":423.57,"endTime":425.31,"body":"be a visiting Professor."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":426.45,"endTime":430.29,"body":"I love that. Um,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":426.45,"endTime":430.29,"body":"yeah, no, that's great. Oh, what"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":430.29,"endTime":435.15,"body":"a class! I- I- when I first"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":430.29,"endTime":435.15,"body":"started thinking about studying"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":435.15,"endTime":438.21,"body":"religion at the graduate level,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":435.15,"endTime":438.21,"body":"like, I- I was a print"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":438.21,"endTime":440.76,"body":"journalism major back when that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":438.21,"endTime":440.76,"body":"was still a thing that people"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":440.76,"endTime":445.89,"body":"did. And I- I ran out of course"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":440.76,"endTime":445.89,"body":"credits that I had already paid"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":445.89,"endTime":448.47,"body":"for by my senior year and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":445.89,"endTime":448.47,"body":"decided I was interested in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":448.47,"endTime":454.05,"body":"religion. So I like a giant"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":448.47,"endTime":454.05,"body":"nerd, sat in on seven religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":454.05,"endTime":458.28,"body":"studies classes in my senior"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":454.05,"endTime":458.28,"body":"year for no credit, just because"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":458.28,"endTime":460.32,"body":"I thought it was interesting,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":458.28,"endTime":460.32,"body":"and then I thought it was going"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":460.32,"endTime":463.65,"body":"to study Sumerians. So, you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":460.32,"endTime":463.65,"body":"know, it's clear- clear"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":463.65,"endTime":466.17,"body":"trajectory, I've clearly always"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":463.65,"endTime":466.17,"body":"known what I wanted to do when I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":466.17,"endTime":466.5,"body":"grow up."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":468.21,"endTime":470.04,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":468.21,"endTime":470.04,"body":"love- I love hearing where"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":470.04,"endTime":473.88,"body":"religion faculty get their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":470.04,"endTime":473.88,"body":"start, because I feel, just like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":473.88,"endTime":476.58,"body":"you said, Judith, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":473.88,"endTime":476.58,"body":"all of us find it through these"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":476.58,"endTime":483.24,"body":"backdoors. And- and it's always"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":476.58,"endTime":483.24,"body":"tied- it's always tied to a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":483.24,"endTime":484.2,"body":"Professor."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":484.26,"endTime":484.74,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":486.72,"endTime":490.59,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":486.72,"endTime":490.59,"body":"I just- I'm just in awe of how a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":490.59,"endTime":495.48,"body":"little bit of mentoring, a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":490.59,"endTime":495.48,"body":"little bit of enthusiasm, um, it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":495.48,"endTime":498.72,"body":"just, like, wakes people up and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":495.48,"endTime":498.72,"body":"turns them on. And I feel like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":498.72,"endTime":501.12,"body":"all these years later, it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":498.72,"endTime":501.12,"body":"still so shocking to me that we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":501.12,"endTime":503.07,"body":"have that power in our own"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":501.12,"endTime":503.07,"body":"classrooms."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":504.18,"endTime":506.55,"body":"Yeah, and if"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":504.18,"endTime":506.55,"body":"you'll indulge me another short"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":506.55,"endTime":507.15,"body":"story-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":507.69,"endTime":508.14,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":507.69,"endTime":508.14,"body":"please!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":508.14,"endTime":510.45,"body":"...from the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":508.14,"endTime":510.45,"body":"Barnard College religion"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":510.45,"endTime":513.0,"body":"department at the time. The"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":510.45,"endTime":513.0,"body":"person whose courses got me"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":513.0,"endTime":517.23,"body":"interested in early"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":513.0,"endTime":517.23,"body":"Christianity, um, was Holland"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":517.23,"endTime":519.96,"body":"Hendrix. He was teaching there-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":517.23,"endTime":519.96,"body":"he later became the president of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":519.96,"endTime":521.55,"body":"Union Theological Seminary."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":521.61,"endTime":521.94,"body":"Oh!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":522.84,"endTime":524.52,"body":"But what- and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":522.84,"endTime":524.52,"body":"what- I think there's a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":524.52,"endTime":528.24,"body":"connection to what I do now. I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":524.52,"endTime":528.24,"body":"really interested in- in- in the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":528.36,"endTime":531.63,"body":"origins and the starts of new"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":528.36,"endTime":531.63,"body":"religions, I think you can see"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":531.72,"endTime":535.5,"body":"that in- in the most recent"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":531.72,"endTime":535.5,"body":"book, it's just the question of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":535.86,"endTime":539.88,"body":"who gets on board this thing"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":535.86,"endTime":539.88,"body":"early on, that then becomes"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":539.88,"endTime":548.22,"body":"something that has so much"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":539.88,"endTime":548.22,"body":"power. But he, um- he said to me"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":548.22,"endTime":552.54,"body":"one day, \"You know, as an"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":548.22,"endTime":552.54,"body":"undergraduate,\" he said, \"you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":552.54,"endTime":555.0,"body":"know, you don't have to be a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":552.54,"endTime":555.0,"body":"genius to go to graduate"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":555.0,"endTime":559.92,"body":"school.\" And I thought, \"Oh, no!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":555.0,"endTime":559.92,"body":"He doesn't think I'm that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":559.92,"endTime":560.4,"body":"smart.\""},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":561.45,"endTime":563.7,"body":"I couldn't tell"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":561.45,"endTime":563.7,"body":"if that was- like, were you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":563.7,"endTime":567.15,"body":"being- like, was that negging? I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":563.7,"endTime":567.15,"body":"don't- I don't know what that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":567.15,"endTime":567.27,"body":"means!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":567.27,"endTime":569.04,"body":"He was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":567.27,"endTime":569.04,"body":"encouraging me to think about"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":569.04,"endTime":570.15,"body":"graduate school because I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":569.04,"endTime":570.15,"body":"certainly..."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":570.18,"endTime":570.36,"body":"Okay!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":570.45,"endTime":572.7,"body":"...had not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":570.45,"endTime":572.7,"body":"thought of it and then- and all"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":572.7,"endTime":576.21,"body":"these years later, I- he's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":572.7,"endTime":576.21,"body":"right. You don't have to be a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":576.21,"endTime":579.45,"body":"genius to go to graduate school."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":576.21,"endTime":579.45,"body":"You have to care about what you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":579.45,"endTime":582.36,"body":"do, you have to be good at it,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":579.45,"endTime":582.36,"body":"you have to work hard at it. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":582.36,"endTime":586.02,"body":"that's- that is the thing that I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":582.36,"endTime":586.02,"body":"ended up taking away- and I-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":586.65,"endTime":592.17,"body":"from it, I- I- I- try every day"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":586.65,"endTime":592.17,"body":"to be better and smarter at what"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":592.17,"endTime":597.0,"body":"I do, because I'm not a genius."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":592.17,"endTime":597.0,"body":"And- and I care about and I- for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":597.0,"endTime":600.81,"body":"the sake of the material I work"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":597.0,"endTime":600.81,"body":"on I try every day to be smarter"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":600.81,"endTime":601.59,"body":"and better at it."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":605.97,"endTime":608.25,"body":"We"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":605.97,"endTime":608.25,"body":"said this before on the pod but,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":608.82,"endTime":612.24,"body":"you know, as someone who does"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":608.82,"endTime":612.24,"body":"what- what I do when my reading"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":612.24,"endTime":616.56,"body":"is- almost, I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":612.24,"endTime":616.56,"body":"the hustle of being a tenure"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":616.56,"endTime":622.08,"body":"track Professor- so n- when your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":616.56,"endTime":622.08,"body":"book, \"New World A-Coming\" came"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":622.08,"endTime":624.99,"body":"out, I- you know, I was"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":622.08,"endTime":624.99,"body":"struggling to maintain my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":624.99,"endTime":627.39,"body":"languages, and teach all these"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":624.99,"endTime":627.39,"body":"classes, and write, and do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":627.39,"endTime":627.87,"body":"whatever-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":628.68,"endTime":630.6,"body":"I feel like there"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":628.68,"endTime":630.6,"body":"was maybe a baby involved there"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":630.6,"endTime":631.05,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":631.44,"endTime":634.38,"body":"Or a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":631.44,"endTime":634.38,"body":"couple of 'em actually! Uh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":634.44,"endTime":638.43,"body":"there was a space in which,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":634.44,"endTime":638.43,"body":"like, reading your work, it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":638.49,"endTime":641.82,"body":"it's a real joy to read. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":638.49,"endTime":641.82,"body":"not just hyping you up. It's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":641.82,"endTime":649.56,"body":"genuine, um- It's a genuine joy"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":641.82,"endTime":649.56,"body":"to read, because you so clearly"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":649.56,"endTime":655.44,"body":"care. And you so clearly, um,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":649.56,"endTime":655.44,"body":"bring that invigorated eye to it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":655.47,"endTime":659.07,"body":"that- I don't know. It's just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":655.47,"endTime":659.07,"body":"evident in what you read. And I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":659.07,"endTime":661.53,"body":"love reading authors like that,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":659.07,"endTime":661.53,"body":"that's the best."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":661.71,"endTime":662.1,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":664.2,"endTime":666.66,"body":"I- hm. We're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":664.2,"endTime":666.66,"body":"actually gonna ask you questions"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":666.66,"endTime":669.6,"body":"rather than just fan-girl out, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":666.66,"endTime":669.6,"body":"promise. But as- as you know,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":669.6,"endTime":675.66,"body":"I'm teaching a Cults class right"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":669.6,"endTime":675.66,"body":"now. And I have rethought it so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":675.66,"endTime":678.45,"body":"that I am reading a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":675.66,"endTime":678.45,"body":"material that's- that's very new"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":678.45,"endTime":682.86,"body":"to me that, actually, Ahmad"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":678.45,"endTime":682.86,"body":"Green-Hayes suggested a number"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":682.86,"endTime":685.86,"body":"of these texts that I'm now kind"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":682.86,"endTime":685.86,"body":"of reading my way through. But"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":685.86,"endTime":688.74,"body":"in the last couple of weeks,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":685.86,"endTime":688.74,"body":"I've been looking at Zora Neale"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":688.74,"endTime":691.68,"body":"Hurston talking about Mother"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":688.74,"endTime":691.68,"body":"Catherine Seals, and we just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":691.68,"endTime":696.24,"body":"picked up Black Gods of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":691.68,"endTime":696.24,"body":"Metropolis yesterday. And a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":696.24,"endTime":700.65,"body":"thing that I have been so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":696.24,"endTime":700.65,"body":"excited to see in these texts is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":700.65,"endTime":705.96,"body":"this real richness and humanity"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":700.65,"endTime":705.96,"body":"in the descriptions of these new"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":705.96,"endTime":710.37,"body":"religious movements. And I feel"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":705.96,"endTime":710.37,"body":"like that absolutely echoes in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":710.4,"endTime":713.52,"body":"your work in ways that is so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":710.4,"endTime":713.52,"body":"exciting, because so much of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":713.52,"endTime":718.26,"body":"what- so much of what we read is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":713.52,"endTime":718.26,"body":"so dry, and so, just,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":718.29,"endTime":723.09,"body":"disembodied. So that's just,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":718.29,"endTime":723.09,"body":"hey, thanks. Thanks for that."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":723.69,"endTime":726.03,"body":"Oh, it was in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":723.69,"endTime":726.03,"body":"that course, that Religion and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":726.03,"endTime":730.86,"body":"Racially Stratified Society"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":726.03,"endTime":730.86,"body":"course, I read Black Gods of the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":730.86,"endTime":736.44,"body":"Metropolis. And I thought- when"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":730.86,"endTime":736.44,"body":"I applied to graduate school, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":736.44,"endTime":740.64,"body":"wrote in my statement of purpose"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":736.44,"endTime":740.64,"body":"that this- this was what I was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":740.64,"endTime":746.31,"body":"going to work on. And I didn't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":740.64,"endTime":746.31,"body":"get around to it until 20 years"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":746.31,"endTime":750.87,"body":"later, but it's the thing that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":746.31,"endTime":750.87,"body":"that really animated me from the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":750.87,"endTime":751.35,"body":"start."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":753.69,"endTime":755.97,"body":"That's amazing."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":753.69,"endTime":755.97,"body":"Love it. Love it. Okay, gonna"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":755.97,"endTime":759.3,"body":"ask another question here. So,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":755.97,"endTime":759.3,"body":"when we set up the arc of season"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":759.3,"endTime":762.54,"body":"two, we hoped you'd join us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":759.3,"endTime":762.54,"body":"because we see your work, the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":762.54,"endTime":765.36,"body":"books, articles, public talks,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":762.54,"endTime":765.36,"body":"general Twitter presence, all of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":765.36,"endTime":768.99,"body":"it, as so necessary to our own"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":765.36,"endTime":768.99,"body":"thinking about race and gender"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":768.99,"endTime":771.81,"body":"and religion. But we're curious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":768.99,"endTime":771.81,"body":"to know how you see your own"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":771.81,"endTime":774.54,"body":"work. Would you also describe"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":771.81,"endTime":774.54,"body":"yourself as working at the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":774.54,"endTime":777.18,"body":"intersection of race, gender,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":774.54,"endTime":777.18,"body":"and religion? Or would you talk"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":777.18,"endTime":779.25,"body":"about your collective"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":777.18,"endTime":779.25,"body":"scholarship in a different way?"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":781.38,"endTime":784.44,"body":"I always"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":781.38,"endTime":784.44,"body":"thought of- of my- I mean my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":784.44,"endTime":788.07,"body":"work is grounded in African"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":784.44,"endTime":788.07,"body":"American religious history. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":788.22,"endTime":792.42,"body":"I'm interested in- or black"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":788.22,"endTime":792.42,"body":"religious history in the US more"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":792.42,"endTime":797.31,"body":"generally, as I've come to think"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":792.42,"endTime":797.31,"body":"more about, uh, immigration, and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":797.31,"endTime":803.43,"body":"should probably do that even"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":797.31,"endTime":803.43,"body":"more. The- the- the study of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":803.43,"endTime":812.16,"body":"religion and race, more broadly,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":803.43,"endTime":812.16,"body":"is something that has become of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":812.16,"endTime":817.53,"body":"greater interest over time. My"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":812.16,"endTime":817.53,"body":"earlier work was on- on race, on"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":818.55,"endTime":822.6,"body":"African American religion and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":818.55,"endTime":822.6,"body":"gender. And so women's religious"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":822.6,"endTime":828.45,"body":"history, in particular, is part"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":822.6,"endTime":828.45,"body":"of that. And over time, these"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":828.48,"endTime":831.45,"body":"questions about how race"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":828.48,"endTime":831.45,"body":"functions in relation to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":831.45,"endTime":835.74,"body":"religion have- these questions"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":831.45,"endTime":835.74,"body":"have become more central to my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":835.74,"endTime":841.71,"body":"work, it's part of it, I don't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":835.74,"endTime":841.71,"body":"ever want to reduce (see if I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":841.71,"endTime":844.08,"body":"can say this right)- I don't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":841.71,"endTime":844.08,"body":"want to reduce African American"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":844.08,"endTime":848.55,"body":"religious history as I study it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":844.08,"endTime":848.55,"body":"to study about how race"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":848.55,"endTime":852.27,"body":"operates. There are other things"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":848.55,"endTime":852.27,"body":"to talk about in black religious"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":852.27,"endTime":857.7,"body":"history than race,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":852.27,"endTime":857.7,"body":"racialization, racism, and I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":857.7,"endTime":860.7,"body":"don't want to reduce the study"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":857.7,"endTime":860.7,"body":"of race- race and religion to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":860.97,"endTime":863.58,"body":"black religious history. So"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":860.97,"endTime":863.58,"body":"black people are not the only"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":863.58,"endTime":869.49,"body":"ones who have race. But I am, as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":863.58,"endTime":869.49,"body":"you know, from my work very"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":869.49,"endTime":873.63,"body":"interested in how race functions"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":869.49,"endTime":873.63,"body":"in relation to religion, so,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":873.75,"endTime":878.04,"body":"and- and increasingly, how"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":873.75,"endTime":878.04,"body":"gender... not increasingly, but"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":878.13,"endTime":881.07,"body":"part of that certainly is"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":878.13,"endTime":881.07,"body":"gender, sexuality. Those are"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":881.07,"endTime":885.36,"body":"not- those tend not to be at the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":881.07,"endTime":885.36,"body":"foreground of my work for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":885.36,"endTime":890.7,"body":"reasons that I- I-, are not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":885.36,"endTime":890.7,"body":"necessarily good ones. Um, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":890.7,"endTime":897.06,"body":"think I haven't done as well in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":890.7,"endTime":897.06,"body":"thinking about this cluster-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":898.35,"endTime":903.75,"body":"with- the elements of this with"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":898.35,"endTime":903.75,"body":"equal force. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":903.75,"endTime":906.69,"body":"something I think about, is kind"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":903.75,"endTime":906.69,"body":"of working on for improvement."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":906.69,"endTime":912.57,"body":"But, so that's the story. So my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":906.69,"endTime":912.57,"body":"work is always grounded in my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":912.57,"endTime":915.51,"body":"interest in African American"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":912.57,"endTime":915.51,"body":"religious history and in black"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":915.51,"endTime":922.65,"body":"religions in the US, and also in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":915.51,"endTime":922.65,"body":"how race works. And in my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":922.65,"endTime":926.07,"body":"teaching, I teach about race and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":922.65,"endTime":926.07,"body":"religion in America. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":926.07,"endTime":931.14,"body":"much broader spread of peoples"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":926.07,"endTime":931.14,"body":"and ideas about racialization."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":932.04,"endTime":934.62,"body":"Yeah. So two"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":932.04,"endTime":934.62,"body":"thoughts immediately spring to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":934.62,"endTime":937.14,"body":"mind. One- one is a confession."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":934.62,"endTime":937.14,"body":"And when is a follow up"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":937.14,"endTime":940.26,"body":"question. I don't- I don't know"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":937.14,"endTime":940.26,"body":"if I told you this, but when we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":940.26,"endTime":944.85,"body":"were working on the when we're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":940.26,"endTime":944.85,"body":"working on the roundtable for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":944.85,"endTime":946.53,"body":"the JAAR [Journal of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":944.85,"endTime":946.53,"body":"American Academy of Religion],"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":946.71,"endTime":949.47,"body":"which we will definitely include"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":946.71,"endTime":949.47,"body":"in the homework, and have"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":949.5,"endTime":951.93,"body":"already included in the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":949.5,"endTime":951.93,"body":"homework. That was, I think, my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":951.93,"endTime":956.16,"body":"first formal publication that w"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":951.93,"endTime":956.16,"body":"sn't, like, an encyclopedi"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":956.16,"endTime":959.22,"body":"article where I was specificall"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":956.16,"endTime":959.22,"body":"talking about race an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":959.22,"endTime":964.8,"body":"racialization. And I got s"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":959.22,"endTime":964.8,"body":"freaked out about both doin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":964.8,"endTime":969.33,"body":"that in the JAAR, and doing tha"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":964.8,"endTime":969.33,"body":"with you, and Sylvester and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":969.33,"endTime":973.17,"body":"number of other very smar"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":969.33,"endTime":973.17,"body":"people, that I fully forgot t"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":973.17,"endTime":976.86,"body":"talk about gender in- in m"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":973.17,"endTime":976.86,"body":"article about black Musli"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":976.86,"endTime":981.9,"body":"women, until reviewer two cam"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":976.86,"endTime":981.9,"body":"back and said, like, \"Hey, what"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":981.9,"endTime":985.83,"body":"what if gender mattered?\" So,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":981.9,"endTime":985.83,"body":"really."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":985.0,"endTime":986.56,"body":"Reviewer two!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":988.53,"endTime":991.2,"body":"It was"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":988.53,"endTime":991.2,"body":"a sad day for- for- Megan. Megan"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":991.2,"endTime":995.43,"body":"was like, \"I have marketed"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":991.2,"endTime":995.43,"body":"myself as the gender person for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":995.46,"endTime":998.55,"body":"my whole career, how did I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":995.46,"endTime":998.55,"body":"forget gender\" it was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":998.55,"endTime":999.99,"body":"talking you down, that day."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":999.99,"endTime":1002.45,"body":"There was a lot"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":999.99,"endTime":1002.45,"body":"of anxiety about it."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1002.9,"endTime":1005.69,"body":"Reviewer two!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1002.9,"endTime":1005.69,"body":"Reviewer two had something"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1005.69,"endTime":1006.77,"body":"positive, something..."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1006.98,"endTime":1008.12,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1008.36,"endTime":1011.09,"body":"Honestly, I have"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1008.36,"endTime":1011.09,"body":"nothing but good things to say"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1011.09,"endTime":1013.76,"body":"about the reviewers from the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1011.09,"endTime":1013.76,"body":"JAAR that we worked with, they"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1013.76,"endTime":1017.27,"body":"were so constructive. But it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1013.76,"endTime":1017.27,"body":"was- I bring that up only"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1017.27,"endTime":1020.33,"body":"because I appreciated so much"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1017.27,"endTime":1020.33,"body":"hearing you say that you're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1020.33,"endTime":1027.56,"body":"still wrestling with how to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1020.33,"endTime":1027.56,"body":"give, I think, if not equal, at"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1027.56,"endTime":1034.07,"body":"least- the- the level of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1027.56,"endTime":1034.07,"body":"attention that these different"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1034.07,"endTime":1038.27,"body":"pieces deserve in the work even"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1034.07,"endTime":1038.27,"body":"if we're fore-fronting gender or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1038.27,"endTime":1041.57,"body":"sexuality or race in specific"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1038.27,"endTime":1041.57,"body":"publications. So, it's the-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1042.08,"endTime":1043.22,"body":"thank you for that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1051.05,"endTime":1055.31,"body":"But I'm also wondering, um,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1051.05,"endTime":1055.31,"body":"where- where did film come from,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1055.46,"endTime":1059.51,"body":"then? Because I- I'm- I am"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1055.46,"endTime":1059.51,"body":"really excited to be teaching"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1059.51,"endTime":1064.55,"body":"your work, like, on Birth of a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1059.51,"endTime":1064.55,"body":"Nation and I would love to hear"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1064.55,"endTime":1065.54,"body":"you think out loud about that."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1066.35,"endTime":1071.99,"body":"Oh, Birth of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1066.35,"endTime":1071.99,"body":"a Nation I can't quit you. Um, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1071.99,"endTime":1078.95,"body":"just love old movies. And I- I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1071.99,"endTime":1078.95,"body":"spent my childhood watching old"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1078.95,"endTime":1083.93,"body":"Hollywood films with my mother"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1078.95,"endTime":1083.93,"body":"and, um, in many ways struggling"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1083.93,"endTime":1090.98,"body":"with the- the paradox of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1083.93,"endTime":1090.98,"body":"profound enjoyment of these. My"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1090.98,"endTime":1096.47,"body":"mother grew up herself watching"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1090.98,"endTime":1096.47,"body":"these in- in the 1940s in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1097.16,"endTime":1101.57,"body":"Trinidad and Tobago, so you're"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1097.16,"endTime":1101.57,"body":"imagining America in some ways"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1101.57,"endTime":1106.55,"body":"through Hollywood films of that-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1101.57,"endTime":1106.55,"body":"that era. I'm more partial to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1106.55,"endTime":1112.4,"body":"films of the 1930s, everything"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1106.55,"endTime":1112.4,"body":"of the 1930s. And so the paradox"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1112.4,"endTime":1116.99,"body":"of enjoying these films that are"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1112.4,"endTime":1116.99,"body":"also often very racist, so I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1117.53,"endTime":1120.14,"body":"don't- I confess do not enjoy"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1117.53,"endTime":1120.14,"body":"Birth of a Nation, that is not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1120.14,"endTime":1120.74,"body":"one of them."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1121.43,"endTime":1123.32,"body":"I'm shocked. I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1121.43,"endTime":1123.32,"body":"shocked to hear this."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1124.34,"endTime":1126.23,"body":"But- but"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1124.34,"endTime":1126.23,"body":"these Hollywood films that I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1126.23,"endTime":1129.53,"body":"just- I adore and- you know,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1126.23,"endTime":1129.53,"body":"thinking about what does it mean"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1129.53,"endTime":1137.78,"body":"to- to see the servants on the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1129.53,"endTime":1137.78,"body":"margins and- and yet enjoy the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1137.78,"endTime":1140.63,"body":"main story in a particular way."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1137.78,"endTime":1140.63,"body":"So I'm just really interested"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1140.63,"endTime":1145.61,"body":"in- I just like these films, and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1140.63,"endTime":1145.61,"body":"to- and to be honest, and in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1145.61,"endTime":1153.02,"body":"one, to a certain extent, that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1145.61,"endTime":1153.02,"body":"project came out of a desire to"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1153.02,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"how can I make work"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1153.02,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"of a thing I spend a lot of time"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1156.53,"endTime":1161.78,"body":"doing? Does this have anything"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1156.53,"endTime":1161.78,"body":"to do with something I could"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1161.78,"endTime":1166.91,"body":"contribute to the study of"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1161.78,"endTime":1166.91,"body":"religion in America? And, right,"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1166.91,"endTime":1172.22,"body":"can I- can I get grants to watch"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1166.91,"endTime":1172.22,"body":"movies and write about them? And"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1173.6,"endTime":1178.4,"body":"so that's one- that's where it"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1173.6,"endTime":1178.4,"body":"came from, but- but- and as I"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1178.4,"endTime":1181.04,"body":"imagined the project, it was-"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1178.4,"endTime":1181.04,"body":"initially it was very different"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1181.04,"endTime":1185.75,"body":"and actually intersected with my"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1181.04,"endTime":1185.75,"body":"growing interest in the study of"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1185.75,"endTime":1188.72,"body":"race and religion in the"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1185.75,"endTime":1188.72,"body":"broadest sense. And the first"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1188.72,"endTime":1192.8,"body":"proposal draft- proposal for"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1188.72,"endTime":1192.8,"body":"the- that this book was much"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1192.89,"endTime":1197.93,"body":"different and was very broadly"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1192.89,"endTime":1197.93,"body":"cast about how about"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1197.93,"endTime":1200.96,"body":"representations of race and"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1197.93,"endTime":1200.96,"body":"religion together and thinking"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1200.96,"endTime":1207.14,"body":"about films like... now I can't"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1200.96,"endTime":1207.14,"body":"even remember what they all"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1207.14,"endTime":1209.36,"body":"are... So, oh The Jazz Singer,"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1207.14,"endTime":1209.36,"body":"for example, is one thing I'm"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1209.69,"endTime":1213.83,"body":"interested in and I teach. So,"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1209.69,"endTime":1213.83,"body":"thinking of that broadly, and as"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1213.83,"endTime":1217.64,"body":"I got into the work a lot- a lot"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1213.83,"endTime":1217.64,"body":"of career things happened, and-"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1217.7,"endTime":1223.43,"body":"and life changed. But as I got"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1217.7,"endTime":1223.43,"body":"into it, I started to see how"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1223.43,"endTime":1226.7,"body":"much there was to say about"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1223.43,"endTime":1226.7,"body":"African American religion in"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1226.7,"endTime":1230.18,"body":"particular. And once I got into"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1226.7,"endTime":1230.18,"body":"the archives, and the production"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1230.18,"endTime":1235.37,"body":"history, and it just all- it"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1230.18,"endTime":1235.37,"body":"took- that- the focus that I"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1235.37,"endTime":1245.24,"body":"ended up taking, and I started"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1235.37,"endTime":1245.24,"body":"to see much more. I- kind of- a"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1245.24,"endTime":1248.99,"body":"project that was much more like"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1245.24,"endTime":1248.99,"body":"other projects I had done that"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1248.99,"endTime":1253.94,"body":"incorporated archives and um..."},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1248.99,"endTime":1253.94,"body":"So, that's where it came from."},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1253.94,"endTime":1256.94,"body":"And I spent a lot of years"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1253.94,"endTime":1256.94,"body":"learning history of film in the"},{"speaker":"just like","startTime":1256.94,"endTime":1258.17,"body":"US, and it was great."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1258.53,"endTime":1260.66,"body":"That was a great"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1258.53,"endTime":1260.66,"body":"answer. And I also- I just I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1260.66,"endTime":1266.33,"body":"really appreciate hearing, well,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1260.66,"endTime":1266.33,"body":"just the, like \"I genuinely take"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1266.33,"endTime":1269.36,"body":"pleasure in this, how can I help"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1266.33,"endTime":1269.36,"body":"people think more closely about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1269.36,"endTime":1272.75,"body":"it? And also, like, find ways to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1269.36,"endTime":1272.75,"body":"enjoy my work?\" I think Ilyse"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1272.75,"endTime":1277.25,"body":"and I both, uh, particularly"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1272.75,"endTime":1277.25,"body":"with the podcast are trying to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1277.25,"endTime":1279.56,"body":"do more of that. We're like, \"we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1277.25,"endTime":1279.56,"body":"enjoy working together, and we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1279.56,"endTime":1282.32,"body":"enjoy teaching, so how do we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1279.56,"endTime":1282.32,"body":"make this something we can, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1282.32,"endTime":1284.99,"body":"don't know, get grants for?\""},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1282.32,"endTime":1284.99,"body":"Thank you New England Humanities"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1284.99,"endTime":1285.32,"body":"Consortium."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1285.32,"endTime":1287.0,"body":"And it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1285.32,"endTime":1287.0,"body":"totally shows, it totally shows."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1287.0,"endTime":1290.54,"body":"I mean, the other thing, too, is"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1287.0,"endTime":1290.54,"body":"that there are two other goals"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1290.54,"endTime":1296.75,"body":"in that project that drove me."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1290.54,"endTime":1296.75,"body":"And one- one was that, um, I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1297.05,"endTime":1300.59,"body":"always interested in thinking"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1297.05,"endTime":1300.59,"body":"about what kinds of sources we"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1300.59,"endTime":1303.68,"body":"bring to bear to study African"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1300.59,"endTime":1303.68,"body":"American religious history or"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1303.68,"endTime":1309.41,"body":"black religions in the US, that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1303.68,"endTime":1309.41,"body":"get us, um, into a broader field"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1309.41,"endTime":1315.02,"body":"than the black Church. So none"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1309.41,"endTime":1315.02,"body":"of my work really focuses on"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1315.02,"endTime":1322.07,"body":"black churches as such. And to-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1315.02,"endTime":1322.07,"body":"to- so and related to that is to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1322.28,"endTime":1328.49,"body":"help people think about how"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1322.28,"endTime":1328.49,"body":"ideas about African American"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1328.49,"endTime":1336.02,"body":"religion have shaped the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1328.49,"endTime":1336.02,"body":"possibilities for civic"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1336.02,"endTime":1339.68,"body":"participation, for example,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1336.02,"endTime":1339.68,"body":"economic development,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1339.68,"endTime":1342.89,"body":"educational opportunity for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1339.68,"endTime":1342.89,"body":"African Americans, right, that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1342.89,"endTime":1349.37,"body":"ideas, representations, have-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1342.89,"endTime":1349.37,"body":"can have consequences and power."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1349.49,"endTime":1356.36,"body":"So the- the- the creation and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1349.49,"endTime":1356.36,"body":"dissemination of certain images"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1356.39,"endTime":1361.7,"body":"of black religions have"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1356.39,"endTime":1361.7,"body":"sometimes served to undermine"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1361.7,"endTime":1366.44,"body":"black flourishing. And so the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1361.7,"endTime":1366.44,"body":"Hollywood portion of that book"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1366.44,"endTime":1370.55,"body":"is a lot about that, but to also"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1366.44,"endTime":1370.55,"body":"see how black Christians, in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1370.55,"endTime":1375.26,"body":"this case, made use of media to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1370.55,"endTime":1375.26,"body":"do certain kinds of work. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1375.26,"endTime":1382.67,"body":"so, it's part of my interest in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1375.26,"endTime":1382.67,"body":"thinking in new ways or broader"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1382.67,"endTime":1385.85,"body":"ways or ways that are not as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1382.67,"endTime":1385.85,"body":"common as others about how- what"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1385.85,"endTime":1387.89,"body":"are we- What are we talking"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1385.85,"endTime":1387.89,"body":"about when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1387.89,"endTime":1390.5,"body":"the study of black religions in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1387.89,"endTime":1390.5,"body":"the US?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1391.7,"endTime":1394.73,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1391.7,"endTime":1394.73,"body":"gets me thinking, Judith, about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1394.76,"endTime":1399.62,"body":"this- this next project that,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1394.76,"endTime":1399.62,"body":"um, I've heard you mention, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1400.07,"endTime":1403.46,"body":"when we did a deep dive on your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1400.07,"endTime":1403.46,"body":"website is listed there. But it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1403.46,"endTime":1407.09,"body":"seems like your- your next"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1403.46,"endTime":1407.09,"body":"project, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1407.09,"endTime":1410.3,"body":"tentatively titled \"Spiritual"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1407.09,"endTime":1410.3,"body":"Madness: Psychiatry, Race, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1410.3,"endTime":1416.6,"body":"African American Religions 1880"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1410.3,"endTime":1416.6,"body":"to 1940\" fits in that- in what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1416.6,"endTime":1419.57,"body":"you just described as thinking"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1416.6,"endTime":1419.57,"body":"bigger and broader about where"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1419.57,"endTime":1422.3,"body":"we see African American"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1419.57,"endTime":1422.3,"body":"religions, or black religions"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1422.51,"endTime":1428.42,"body":"being thought about, produced,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1422.51,"endTime":1428.42,"body":"navigated. So I'm wondering- I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1428.42,"endTime":1431.12,"body":"wondering if you could tell us a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1428.42,"endTime":1431.12,"body":"little bit about it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1431.18,"endTime":1435.53,"body":"fascinated by the history of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1431.18,"endTime":1435.53,"body":"science and I find in my own"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1435.53,"endTime":1439.37,"body":"work, when I think about, um,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1435.53,"endTime":1439.37,"body":"certainly South Asia and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1439.37,"endTime":1443.18,"body":"racialization in South Asia, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1439.37,"endTime":1443.18,"body":"racialization of Islam, it's-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1443.21,"endTime":1447.68,"body":"um, it's mandatory that I think"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1443.21,"endTime":1447.68,"body":"about the history of science,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1447.68,"endTime":1451.7,"body":"and scientific racism, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1447.68,"endTime":1451.7,"body":"scientific experiments done on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1452.39,"endTime":1456.8,"body":"South Asians. So I'm, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1452.39,"endTime":1456.8,"body":"excited for this project and I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1456.8,"endTime":1459.02,"body":"kinda just want to hear you say"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1456.8,"endTime":1459.02,"body":"a little bit more about it."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1459.02,"endTime":1462.53,"body":"That's a poorly worded question."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1459.02,"endTime":1462.53,"body":"But- help me out."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1462.53,"endTime":1464.27,"body":"Yeah, tell about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1462.53,"endTime":1464.27,"body":"your new project? It sounds"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1464.27,"endTime":1465.53,"body":"exciting. I love that question."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1465.83,"endTime":1466.25,"body":"Thanks!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1466.76,"endTime":1469.31,"body":"Ilyse, you-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1466.76,"endTime":1469.31,"body":"you said something in an episode"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1469.31,"endTime":1472.1,"body":"recently, I can't remember which"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1469.31,"endTime":1472.1,"body":"one, about- that I really"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1472.1,"endTime":1476.0,"body":"appreciated that- that you were"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1472.1,"endTime":1476.0,"body":"saying no, science is science."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1476.0,"endTime":1478.37,"body":"It's not- it's not science,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1476.0,"endTime":1478.37,"body":"whatever it was, with scare"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1478.37,"endTime":1478.76,"body":"quotes."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1478.82,"endTime":1479.6,"body":"Scare quotes,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1478.82,"endTime":1479.6,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1479.87,"endTime":1481.58,"body":"Talking about"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1479.87,"endTime":1481.58,"body":"eugenics, I can't remember what."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1481.58,"endTime":1482.57,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1481.58,"endTime":1482.57,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1482.75,"endTime":1485.48,"body":"It's science."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1482.75,"endTime":1485.48,"body":"And it's science that we may"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1485.48,"endTime":1488.33,"body":"hate, or find racist, or"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1485.48,"endTime":1488.33,"body":"whatever, but it's still"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1488.81,"endTime":1493.4,"body":"science. And I really"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1488.81,"endTime":1493.4,"body":"appreciated that I'm coming to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1493.4,"endTime":1497.57,"body":"terms with that. So in this, you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1493.4,"endTime":1497.57,"body":"know, as with that film project,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1497.57,"endTime":1501.17,"body":"I fell into having to learn a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1497.57,"endTime":1501.17,"body":"lot about the history of film."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1502.31,"endTime":1506.78,"body":"And now I am trying to learn the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1502.31,"endTime":1506.78,"body":"history of psychiatry in order"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1506.78,"endTime":1513.59,"body":"to do a credible job of- with"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1506.78,"endTime":1513.59,"body":"this. I fell in into this, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1513.59,"endTime":1517.85,"body":"guess I've fallen to everything"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1513.59,"endTime":1517.85,"body":"in some ways. That's the best"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1517.85,"endTime":1523.31,"body":"way to find projects. I was- I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1517.85,"endTime":1523.31,"body":"was writing the New World"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1523.34,"endTime":1528.17,"body":"A-Coming, I was reading"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1523.34,"endTime":1528.17,"body":"published psychiatric studies"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1528.2,"endTime":1530.96,"body":"about followers of Father"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1528.2,"endTime":1530.96,"body":"Divine, they were published in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1530.96,"endTime":1534.89,"body":"the 1930s. And there are several"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1530.96,"endTime":1534.89,"body":"of them with titles like"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1535.82,"endTime":1541.07,"body":"'Psychosis Among Followers of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1535.82,"endTime":1541.07,"body":"Father Divine.' And so I was- I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1541.07,"endTime":1548.45,"body":"was thinking about the general"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1541.07,"endTime":1548.45,"body":"question about, um, the framing"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1548.45,"endTime":1552.5,"body":"of people who follow so called"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1548.45,"endTime":1552.5,"body":"\"cult leaders\" as mentally ill."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1553.13,"endTime":1559.16,"body":"And Father Divine himself was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1553.13,"endTime":1559.16,"body":"tried for lunacy in Georgia,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1559.28,"endTime":1562.13,"body":"before he moved to New York and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1559.28,"endTime":1562.13,"body":"became much more well known. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1562.46,"endTime":1565.55,"body":"I hope at some point to go and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1562.46,"endTime":1565.55,"body":"look and see if there are any"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1565.79,"endTime":1569.99,"body":"records from that hearing, there"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1565.79,"endTime":1569.99,"body":"are some newspaper accounts. But"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1569.99,"endTime":1574.34,"body":"I was interested in- in what"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1569.99,"endTime":1574.34,"body":"what the response to the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1574.34,"endTime":1577.22,"body":"followers was. And these studies"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1574.34,"endTime":1577.22,"body":"were there- there are four of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1577.22,"endTime":1580.31,"body":"them from Bellevue Hospital in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1577.22,"endTime":1580.31,"body":"New York, and Pilgrim Psych"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1580.34,"endTime":1584.99,"body":"State Hospital, which was at the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1580.34,"endTime":1584.99,"body":"time, late 30s, early 40s, the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1584.99,"endTime":1591.02,"body":"largest psychiatric hospital in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1584.99,"endTime":1591.02,"body":"the world. And- and so they were"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1591.05,"endTime":1594.38,"body":"focused case studies there that-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1591.05,"endTime":1594.38,"body":"that I wrote about, but there"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1594.38,"endTime":1599.81,"body":"was this frame that opened all"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1594.38,"endTime":1599.81,"body":"of these articles, that sounded"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1599.81,"endTime":1605.24,"body":"very 19th century to me. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1599.81,"endTime":1605.24,"body":"with these general statements of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1605.24,"endTime":1610.67,"body":"like, the, you know, the- I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1605.24,"endTime":1610.67,"body":"don't know, things like 'the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1610.67,"endTime":1616.61,"body":"Negro is naturally x y and z,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1610.67,"endTime":1616.61,"body":"and predisposed to these certain"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1616.61,"endTime":1619.88,"body":"sorts of mental dispositions and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1616.61,"endTime":1619.88,"body":"their religions are naturally"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1619.88,"endTime":1624.23,"body":"superstitious,' and I just- as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1619.88,"endTime":1624.23,"body":"much as I spent all my time, in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1624.23,"endTime":1630.23,"body":"some ways in the 1930s, and- and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1624.23,"endTime":1630.23,"body":"there- there was a lot of racism"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1630.23,"endTime":1633.8,"body":"in the 1930s. I was, I don't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1630.23,"endTime":1633.8,"body":"know, I was really kind of taken"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1633.8,"endTime":1637.13,"body":"aback, but it did sound 19th"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1633.8,"endTime":1637.13,"body":"century to me. So I thought- it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1637.13,"endTime":1639.89,"body":"just was- I was sitting with it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1637.13,"endTime":1639.89,"body":"for a long time. And one of my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1640.52,"endTime":1644.81,"body":"graduate students I was working"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1640.52,"endTime":1644.81,"body":"with Andrew Walker Cornetta was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1644.81,"endTime":1648.14,"body":"writing a dissertation on"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1644.81,"endTime":1648.14,"body":"history of religion and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1648.14,"endTime":1653.84,"body":"disability in mid-20th century"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1648.14,"endTime":1653.84,"body":"US with a focus on cognitive"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1653.84,"endTime":1658.01,"body":"disability and- and he just kept"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1653.84,"endTime":1658.01,"body":"saying, \"you know, you really"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1658.01,"endTime":1661.64,"body":"should- you should, like, poke"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1658.01,"endTime":1661.64,"body":"at that and see what it is.\" And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1661.64,"endTime":1664.61,"body":"I kept saying, \"I don't know"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1661.64,"endTime":1664.61,"body":"anything about this.\" So, but I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1664.61,"endTime":1667.67,"body":"pulled on that thread and it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1664.61,"endTime":1667.67,"body":"landed me back in the 1880s,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1667.67,"endTime":1671.66,"body":"when psychiatry was coming into"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1667.67,"endTime":1671.66,"body":"being as a- as a distinct"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1671.66,"endTime":1675.2,"body":"professional specialty. And so,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1671.66,"endTime":1675.2,"body":"oh gee, I wonder what these"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1675.2,"endTime":1679.13,"body":"psychiatrists or emergent"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1675.2,"endTime":1679.13,"body":"psychiatrists, asylum doctors,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1679.13,"endTime":1684.08,"body":"neurologists, had to say about"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1679.13,"endTime":1684.08,"body":"black religion, and they'd had a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1684.29,"endTime":1686.96,"body":"ton of things, a ton of racist"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1684.29,"endTime":1686.96,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1689.36,"endTime":1691.04,"body":"I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1689.36,"endTime":1691.04,"body":"not- I'm not that shocked by it,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1691.0,"endTime":1696.61,"body":"Well, I am"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1691.0,"endTime":1696.61,"body":"mired in racism. So what I came"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1691.04,"endTime":1691.37,"body":"but..."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1696.61,"endTime":1707.65,"body":"to find is that- that at the end"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1696.61,"endTime":1707.65,"body":"of the 19th century, these, I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1707.65,"endTime":1710.44,"body":"calling them psychiatrists, I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1707.65,"endTime":1710.44,"body":"not- I'm not sure that's the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1710.44,"endTime":1714.31,"body":"best way to talk about them at"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1710.44,"endTime":1714.31,"body":"that moment, but the people who"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1714.31,"endTime":1718.15,"body":"will- whose work becomes"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1714.31,"endTime":1718.15,"body":"formative for American"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1718.15,"endTime":1722.92,"body":"psychiatry, they're mostly"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1718.15,"endTime":1722.92,"body":"Southern- white Southern asylum"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1722.92,"endTime":1727.81,"body":"doctors, who- so they work in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1722.92,"endTime":1727.81,"body":"state mental institutions. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1727.81,"endTime":1731.32,"body":"they- they- they say in this"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1727.81,"endTime":1731.32,"body":"period, that there's a kind of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1731.68,"endTime":1734.86,"body":"crisis, there's a public health"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1731.68,"endTime":1734.86,"body":"crisis of an increase in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1734.86,"endTime":1739.21,"body":"insanity among African"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1734.86,"endTime":1739.21,"body":"Americans, and they are saying"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1739.21,"endTime":1744.37,"body":"that it's because of their"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1739.21,"endTime":1744.37,"body":"unfitness for civilization and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1744.37,"endTime":1748.57,"body":"freedom. And one of the- it's a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1744.37,"endTime":1748.57,"body":"kind of dual thing- that one of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1748.57,"endTime":1754.12,"body":"the predisposing factors for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1748.57,"endTime":1754.12,"body":"this insanity, as they see this"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1754.15,"endTime":1758.17,"body":"crisis, is a certain what I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1754.15,"endTime":1758.17,"body":"calling the kind of religious"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1758.17,"endTime":1762.1,"body":"mind of the Negro. They"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1758.17,"endTime":1762.1,"body":"construct it, this"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1762.19,"endTime":1765.91,"body":"\"superstition,\" \"emotionalism\""},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1762.19,"endTime":1765.91,"body":"(all of these can be in scare"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1765.91,"endTime":1771.58,"body":"quotes), \"fanaticism\""},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1765.91,"endTime":1771.58,"body":"predisposes black people to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1772.06,"endTime":1776.5,"body":"insanity when they are no longer"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1772.06,"endTime":1776.5,"body":"under, in the white"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1776.5,"endTime":1781.81,"body":"psychiatrists' framing, the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1776.5,"endTime":1781.81,"body":"protective constraints of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1781.81,"endTime":1788.92,"body":"slavery. And this is both the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1781.81,"endTime":1788.92,"body":"predisposing factor and the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1788.98,"endTime":1793.06,"body":"manifestation--so acts of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1788.98,"endTime":1793.06,"body":"fanatical manifestations,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1793.3,"endTime":1799.66,"body":"emotional religion,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1793.3,"endTime":1799.66,"body":"superstitious ideations. And so"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1799.66,"endTime":1804.07,"body":"I- I'm surveying the psychiatric"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1799.66,"endTime":1804.07,"body":"literature to get the sense of,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1804.07,"endTime":1806.08,"body":"you know, what are these"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1804.07,"endTime":1806.08,"body":"components? I again- I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1806.08,"endTime":1810.04,"body":"surprised but not, that- that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1806.08,"endTime":1810.04,"body":"these doctors saw religion,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1810.31,"endTime":1813.31,"body":"understanding black religion as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1810.31,"endTime":1813.31,"body":"absolutely central to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1813.31,"endTime":1819.16,"body":"understanding this. And- and so"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1813.31,"endTime":1819.16,"body":"I've also spent some time in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1819.22,"endTime":1822.52,"body":"archives, the ones that are"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1819.22,"endTime":1822.52,"body":"accessible some of the state"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1822.52,"endTime":1825.46,"body":"mental hospitals, looking at"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1822.52,"endTime":1825.46,"body":"patient case files to try and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1826.21,"endTime":1830.38,"body":"get a sense of what the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1826.21,"endTime":1830.38,"body":"experience of some of the people"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1830.38,"endTime":1833.08,"body":"who are committed to these"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1830.38,"endTime":1833.08,"body":"institutions was like."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1833.96,"endTime":1838.46,"body":"Oof. I- oof."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1833.96,"endTime":1838.46,"body":"Okay, that's a lot and hard and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1838.46,"endTime":1840.86,"body":"sounds fascinating and I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1838.46,"endTime":1840.86,"body":"definitely want to read it. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1840.86,"endTime":1846.02,"body":"also my stomach hurts. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1840.86,"endTime":1846.02,"body":"also curious, and don't let us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1846.02,"endTime":1850.01,"body":"go down a rabbit hole about this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1846.02,"endTime":1850.01,"body":"if it's not worthwhile. But my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1850.01,"endTime":1853.79,"body":"own work, I've spent a lot with"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1850.01,"endTime":1853.79,"body":"construction of gay and queer"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1853.79,"endTime":1857.66,"body":"identities. And so talking about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1853.79,"endTime":1857.66,"body":"the emergence of psychiatry does"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1857.66,"endTime":1859.91,"body":"a thing in my brain where it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1857.66,"endTime":1859.91,"body":"like, oh, this is when sexual"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1859.91,"endTime":1862.49,"body":"identity becomes like a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1859.91,"endTime":1862.49,"body":"condition of possibility. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1862.49,"endTime":1866.63,"body":"I'm wondering if there's any"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1862.49,"endTime":1866.63,"body":"intersection there with the- the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1866.63,"endTime":1867.8,"body":"archives that you're seeing?"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1869.93,"endTime":1873.44,"body":"So far, my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1869.93,"endTime":1873.44,"body":"archival research has been in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1873.44,"endTime":1882.23,"body":"the- from about 1880 to maybe"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1873.44,"endTime":1882.23,"body":"1910. And- and I'm not- I'm not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1882.23,"endTime":1885.23,"body":"sure what kind of archival"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1882.23,"endTime":1885.23,"body":"access I'll have after that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1885.23,"endTime":1889.16,"body":"period. But what I haven't.... I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1885.23,"endTime":1889.16,"body":"mean, one of the things that...."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1890.48,"endTime":1895.37,"body":"not yet, and one of the things"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1890.48,"endTime":1895.37,"body":"that I expected in- in getting"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1895.37,"endTime":1898.37,"body":"underway in this work was that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1895.37,"endTime":1898.37,"body":"this- this would actually be a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1898.37,"endTime":1902.36,"body":"book about black women, that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1898.37,"endTime":1902.36,"body":"that was going to be the history"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1902.39,"endTime":1910.19,"body":"of the people who were more"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1902.39,"endTime":1910.19,"body":"likely to be framed as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1910.19,"endTime":1913.34,"body":"excessively emotional, or"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1910.19,"endTime":1913.34,"body":"fanatical in their work. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1913.67,"endTime":1918.41,"body":"just what so far from the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1913.67,"endTime":1918.41,"body":"archival...that might be true"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1918.41,"endTime":1922.22,"body":"for the kind of popular culture"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1918.41,"endTime":1922.22,"body":"representation of it, and I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1922.22,"endTime":1925.91,"body":"think (this is a slight aside),"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1922.22,"endTime":1925.91,"body":"one of the things that I find"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1925.91,"endTime":1929.81,"body":"really striking is when I survey"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1925.91,"endTime":1929.81,"body":"newspaper coverage, for example,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1929.81,"endTime":1933.14,"body":"magazine coverage, discussions"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1929.81,"endTime":1933.14,"body":"about the nature of black"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1933.14,"endTime":1936.08,"body":"religion in this period and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1933.14,"endTime":1936.08,"body":"white- and white periodicals,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1936.8,"endTime":1941.93,"body":"it's really hard to distinguish"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1936.8,"endTime":1941.93,"body":"the- the scientific discourse"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1941.93,"endTime":1946.37,"body":"from the sensationalist, popular"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1941.93,"endTime":1946.37,"body":"culture discourse about what"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1946.37,"endTime":1951.29,"body":"black people are doing"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1946.37,"endTime":1951.29,"body":"religiously. And- and I also am"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1951.29,"endTime":1957.38,"body":"trying really hard to- to make"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1951.29,"endTime":1957.38,"body":"the- the doctors people, and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1958.04,"endTime":1962.69,"body":"people who are religious, and so"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1958.04,"endTime":1962.69,"body":"they have commitments to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1962.69,"endTime":1964.85,"body":"mainline Protestant"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1962.69,"endTime":1964.85,"body":"denominations, for the most"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1964.85,"endTime":1968.84,"body":"part. There are people who, many"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1964.85,"endTime":1968.84,"body":"of whom fought in the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1968.84,"endTime":1972.47,"body":"Confederacy, they are people who"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1968.84,"endTime":1972.47,"body":"come from slaveholding families,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1972.5,"endTime":1976.88,"body":"and so their scientific"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1972.5,"endTime":1976.88,"body":"worldview is shaped in these"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1976.88,"endTime":1980.69,"body":"religious and social worlds in a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1976.88,"endTime":1980.69,"body":"way that I haven't found"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1980.69,"endTime":1984.77,"body":"represented in- in what is"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1980.69,"endTime":1984.77,"body":"actually a really exciting new"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1984.77,"endTime":1989.81,"body":"literature on race- race in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1984.77,"endTime":1989.81,"body":"early psychiatry now. But- but I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1989.81,"endTime":1996.23,"body":"haven't found- I find that men"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1989.81,"endTime":1996.23,"body":"predominate in commitment to- to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1996.62,"endTime":2002.14,"body":"the hospitals, and I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":1996.62,"endTime":2002.14,"body":"about that they may have, I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2002.14,"endTime":2005.65,"body":"not sure why, they may have been"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2002.14,"endTime":2005.65,"body":"more prone to get swept up."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2005.65,"endTime":2011.35,"body":"There's a lot of transfer from"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2005.65,"endTime":2011.35,"body":"across carceral spheres here. So"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2011.35,"endTime":2017.83,"body":"from jails, to work houses, to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2011.35,"endTime":2017.83,"body":"the poorhouse, to the mental"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2017.83,"endTime":2021.73,"body":"hospital, and men may have been"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2017.83,"endTime":2021.73,"body":"more prone, more likely, to be"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2021.73,"endTime":2026.17,"body":"caught up in that kind of net,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2021.73,"endTime":2026.17,"body":"but I'm not sure yet. So it's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2026.17,"endTime":2029.92,"body":"not a- it doesn't seem to be the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2026.17,"endTime":2029.92,"body":"history of black women"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2030.82,"endTime":2031.66,"body":"specifically."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2033.55,"endTime":2036.4,"body":"What is a thing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2033.55,"endTime":2036.4,"body":"(or you can have things) you'd"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2036.4,"endTime":2039.7,"body":"want our listeners to really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2036.4,"endTime":2039.7,"body":"learn from you or about race,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2039.73,"endTime":2043.06,"body":"gender, and religion? What's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2039.73,"endTime":2043.06,"body":"your 101?"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2043.15,"endTime":2046.21,"body":"What's my"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2043.15,"endTime":2046.21,"body":"101? When I wrote New World"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2046.63,"endTime":2050.89,"body":"A-Coming and I came- I had to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2046.63,"endTime":2050.89,"body":"find a way to talk about the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2050.89,"endTime":2055.39,"body":"groups I was writing about that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2050.89,"endTime":2055.39,"body":"had been in the past called"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2055.39,"endTime":2060.46,"body":"sects or cults (most commonly"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2055.39,"endTime":2060.46,"body":"cults). And for the years I was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2060.46,"endTime":2063.76,"body":"working on the project, I was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2060.46,"endTime":2063.76,"body":"calling them \"these groups in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2063.76,"endTime":2070.09,"body":"which I am interested,\" \"the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2063.76,"endTime":2070.09,"body":"groups I'm writing about,\" and I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2070.15,"endTime":2074.8,"body":"very, very, very close to the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2070.15,"endTime":2074.8,"body":"end of the project decided that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2074.8,"endTime":2078.43,"body":"I was going to call them"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2074.8,"endTime":2078.43,"body":"religio-racial movements or"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2078.43,"endTime":2082.99,"body":"groups. And it really was like"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2078.43,"endTime":2082.99,"body":"the penultimate draft and then I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2082.99,"endTime":2086.41,"body":"did a whole day of search and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2082.99,"endTime":2086.41,"body":"replace..."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2090.31,"endTime":2090.46,"body":"Oh"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2090.31,"endTime":2090.46,"body":"lord..."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2090.46,"endTime":2091.99,"body":"...and sent"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2090.46,"endTime":2091.99,"body":"it out to the readers for the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2091.99,"endTime":2094.78,"body":"final check. And suddenly"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2091.99,"endTime":2094.78,"body":"religio-racial was a thing and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2094.81,"endTime":2101.32,"body":"I- I- I- as I wrote about it in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2094.81,"endTime":2101.32,"body":"the book I think I said"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2101.32,"endTime":2105.31,"body":"something like I- I'm framing it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2101.32,"endTime":2105.31,"body":"this way, I'm grouping these"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2105.31,"endTime":2110.23,"body":"together through this lens, in a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2105.31,"endTime":2110.23,"body":"way that's not meant to say this"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2110.23,"endTime":2112.51,"body":"is the only way you can"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2110.23,"endTime":2112.51,"body":"understand these groups and you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2112.51,"endTime":2116.98,"body":"could re-sort them and ask other"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2112.51,"endTime":2116.98,"body":"kinds of questions and attach"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2116.98,"endTime":2120.76,"body":"them to other kinds of groups as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2116.98,"endTime":2120.76,"body":"did Arthur Huff Fauset in Black"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2120.76,"endTime":2124.36,"body":"Gods of the Metropolis. But for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2120.76,"endTime":2124.36,"body":"the purposes of this book, and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2124.36,"endTime":2127.75,"body":"looking at these groups, this is"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2124.36,"endTime":2127.75,"body":"how I want to think about them."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2128.23,"endTime":2132.01,"body":"And I didn't think that it would"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2128.23,"endTime":2132.01,"body":"become a broader- the term would"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2132.01,"endTime":2136.09,"body":"become- would be applied in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2132.01,"endTime":2136.09,"body":"other ways. And I had that one"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2136.09,"endTime":2140.14,"body":"line about well actually, like,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2136.09,"endTime":2140.14,"body":"in some way, all religion in the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2140.14,"endTime":2144.22,"body":"United States is religio-racial."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2140.14,"endTime":2144.22,"body":"And that was the throwaway that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2144.55,"endTime":2146.44,"body":"opened the door to many things"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2147.61,"endTime":2147.91,"body":"Opened"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2147.61,"endTime":2147.91,"body":"the door..."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2147.91,"endTime":2148.54,"body":"I'm just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2147.91,"endTime":2148.54,"body":"giggling...."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2151.09,"endTime":2154.03,"body":"I'm just giggling"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2151.09,"endTime":2154.03,"body":"because I- the first time I met"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2151.39,"endTime":2151.93,"body":"...to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2151.39,"endTime":2151.93,"body":"our abuse."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2154.03,"endTime":2156.64,"body":"Judith in person was for this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2154.03,"endTime":2156.64,"body":"panel that we did at the AAR on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2156.64,"endTime":2160.15,"body":"New World. And I think three of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2156.64,"endTime":2160.15,"body":"the four of us who wrote"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2160.21,"endTime":2164.92,"body":"responses or- to your book"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2160.21,"endTime":2164.92,"body":"quoted that one throwaway line"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2168.31,"endTime":2170.53,"body":"And I crossed"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2168.31,"endTime":2170.53,"body":"my arms and I said \"Actually...\""},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2173.2,"endTime":2177.67,"body":"But- but actually, I mean it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2173.2,"endTime":2177.67,"body":"though. And that's- that's a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2177.67,"endTime":2184.15,"body":"takeaway, that because of the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2177.67,"endTime":2184.15,"body":"nature, the history of racial"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2184.15,"endTime":2188.74,"body":"formation, the nature of racial"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2184.15,"endTime":2188.74,"body":"hierarchy, the power of racial"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2188.74,"endTime":2193.75,"body":"identities for people in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2188.74,"endTime":2193.75,"body":"communities, regardless of the-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2193.78,"endTime":2196.66,"body":"you know, the history of how"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2193.78,"endTime":2196.66,"body":"they came to be formed, that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2196.66,"endTime":2202.45,"body":"race- race- and race has power"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2196.66,"endTime":2202.45,"body":"and- and in ways that are"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2203.05,"endTime":2208.27,"body":"oppressive in ways that are"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2203.05,"endTime":2208.27,"body":"liberating for people and- and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2208.27,"endTime":2211.96,"body":"you can't understand things that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2208.27,"endTime":2211.96,"body":"are- that exists in a racial"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2211.96,"endTime":2216.73,"body":"frame without attending to that,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2211.96,"endTime":2216.73,"body":"and attending to how gender"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2216.73,"endTime":2224.5,"body":"inflects, and sexuality,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2216.73,"endTime":2224.5,"body":"ability, national origin, things"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2224.5,"endTime":2230.44,"body":"like this, and so- so you can't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2224.5,"endTime":2230.44,"body":"understand religion, certainly"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2230.44,"endTime":2237.94,"body":"in the US, without understanding"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2230.44,"endTime":2237.94,"body":"race as- as a formative factor"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2237.94,"endTime":2242.05,"body":"in a lot of ways. And- and as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2237.94,"endTime":2242.05,"body":"you all have done so well, in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2242.05,"endTime":2246.64,"body":"the- in the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2242.05,"endTime":2246.64,"body":"obviously race- racial formation"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2246.64,"endTime":2250.9,"body":"is not the same across time."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2246.64,"endTime":2250.9,"body":"It's not the same across place."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2252.16,"endTime":2257.59,"body":"But it's always good to think"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2252.16,"endTime":2257.59,"body":"about how race may or may not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2258.01,"endTime":2262.96,"body":"come into play in different"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2258.01,"endTime":2262.96,"body":"times and places and if not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2262.96,"endTime":2270.34,"body":"race, what other kinds of social"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2262.96,"endTime":2270.34,"body":"factors are shaping how"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2270.34,"endTime":2273.64,"body":"religions work? So religions are"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2270.34,"endTime":2273.64,"body":"obviously (this is the point of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2273.64,"endTime":2278.14,"body":"your podcast) they're not these"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2273.64,"endTime":2278.14,"body":"things that exist complete out"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2278.14,"endTime":2283.48,"body":"there, but they're located in-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2278.14,"endTime":2283.48,"body":"in- in places and times and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2283.48,"endTime":2288.28,"body":"people do them and make them and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2283.48,"endTime":2288.28,"body":"wield them. And race is one of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2288.31,"endTime":2289.15,"body":"those factors."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2290.2,"endTime":2293.5,"body":"So if I'm hearing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2290.2,"endTime":2293.5,"body":"you correctly, one, we have to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2293.5,"endTime":2299.38,"body":"care about history and location,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2293.5,"endTime":2299.38,"body":"but two, just- just to be super"},{"speaker":"basic about this","startTime":2299.38,"endTime":2304.3,"body":"Hey, Judith"},{"speaker":"basic about this","startTime":2299.38,"endTime":2304.3,"body":"Weisenfeld, which people have"},{"speaker":"basic about this","startTime":2304.3,"endTime":2306.55,"body":"race? How many?"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2308.04,"endTime":2311.82,"body":"In- in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2308.04,"endTime":2311.82,"body":"racialized fields, and in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2311.82,"endTime":2317.01,"body":"societies, all people have race,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2311.82,"endTime":2317.01,"body":"whether they are aware of it or"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2317.01,"endTime":2317.46,"body":"not."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2320.25,"endTime":2323.88,"body":"So if everybody"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2320.25,"endTime":2323.88,"body":"has race, I feel like everybody"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2323.88,"endTime":2326.55,"body":"who's studying people should"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2323.88,"endTime":2326.55,"body":"have to care about race."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2326.93,"endTime":2330.95,"body":"Yes. Um, yes."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2330.95,"endTime":2331.7,"body":"That's where"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2330.95,"endTime":2331.7,"body":"we're at."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2332.6,"endTime":2334.7,"body":"I want to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2332.6,"endTime":2334.7,"body":"say, so one of the things that-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2337.25,"endTime":2338.93,"body":"you can be my therapists now."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2340.01,"endTime":2341.33,"body":"I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2340.01,"endTime":2341.33,"body":"good at that. That's my role in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2341.33,"endTime":2342.32,"body":"our marriage here. So..."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2342.32,"endTime":2343.61,"body":"True story. True"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2342.32,"endTime":2343.61,"body":"story."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2344.26,"endTime":2346.39,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2344.26,"endTime":2346.39,"body":"things that worries me- so"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2346.39,"endTime":2349.21,"body":"it's.. so Megan, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2346.39,"endTime":2349.21,"body":"like- I'm holding on tightly to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2349.21,"endTime":2353.23,"body":"this religio-racial thing. It"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2349.21,"endTime":2353.23,"body":"applies to these people in this"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2353.23,"endTime":2359.95,"body":"time, and so... but- but- but"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2353.23,"endTime":2359.95,"body":"I'm interested I am, I am very"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2359.95,"endTime":2364.81,"body":"interested to see how- how, and-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2359.95,"endTime":2364.81,"body":"and deeply moved that people"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2364.81,"endTime":2369.01,"body":"find it helpful in other ways."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2364.81,"endTime":2369.01,"body":"But I'm worried about- about"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2369.01,"endTime":2375.55,"body":"the- I'm worried that it might,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2369.01,"endTime":2375.55,"body":"for people who study, for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2375.55,"endTime":2383.8,"body":"example, white evangelicals, is"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2375.55,"endTime":2383.8,"body":"just an example. That to call"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2383.8,"endTime":2388.69,"body":"what they're doing thinking"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2383.8,"endTime":2388.69,"body":"about white evangelicals and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2388.69,"endTime":2393.01,"body":"religio-racial something, may"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2388.69,"endTime":2393.01,"body":"sometimes actually work to just"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2393.01,"endTime":2397.15,"body":"say, \"oh, they're just white"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2393.01,"endTime":2397.15,"body":"people here and so if I name it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2397.18,"endTime":2401.62,"body":"as white, I don't actually have"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2397.18,"endTime":2401.62,"body":"to interrogate the whiteness and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2401.62,"endTime":2407.83,"body":"the operations of power of it.\""},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2401.62,"endTime":2407.83,"body":"So, you know, I see this- it's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2407.83,"endTime":2412.9,"body":"so weird to me to hear- hear"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2407.83,"endTime":2412.9,"body":"people use this term or I open"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2412.9,"endTime":2416.74,"body":"up a conference program and I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2412.9,"endTime":2416.74,"body":"see paper titles that have this"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2416.74,"endTime":2423.34,"body":"in it. And I'm like, \"What is"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2416.74,"endTime":2423.34,"body":"going on here?\" It's so- but I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2423.34,"endTime":2426.91,"body":"have- I have heard papers where-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2423.34,"endTime":2426.91,"body":"where it just becomes a way to-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2426.94,"endTime":2431.86,"body":"to.... I'm worried that it's an"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2426.94,"endTime":2431.86,"body":"excuse to not actually"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2431.86,"endTime":2436.27,"body":"interrogate the whiteness, but"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2431.86,"endTime":2436.27,"body":"to just say, \"Oh, it's white"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2436.27,"endTime":2441.19,"body":"people. And I've named that. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2436.27,"endTime":2441.19,"body":"now I can move on and just study"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2441.19,"endTime":2443.05,"body":"the white people I was studying"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2441.19,"endTime":2443.05,"body":"in the first place.\""},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2443.05,"endTime":2443.11,"body":"Yeah..."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2443.39,"endTime":2447.95,"body":"Done, checked! I,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2443.39,"endTime":2447.95,"body":"um, white people through there."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2448.7,"endTime":2452.48,"body":"No, I really appreciate the, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2448.7,"endTime":2452.48,"body":"we've- we've done this before"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2452.48,"endTime":2455.84,"body":"and I promise I won't gush too"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2452.48,"endTime":2455.84,"body":"much, but we have said"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2455.84,"endTime":2458.72,"body":"repeatedly that we really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2455.84,"endTime":2458.72,"body":"appreciate the specificity that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2458.72,"endTime":2461.75,"body":"you're- you're bringing to this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2458.72,"endTime":2461.75,"body":"analysis and to this analytical"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2461.75,"endTime":2465.77,"body":"tool. And I feel a little bit"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2461.75,"endTime":2465.77,"body":"bad that you're probably going"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2465.77,"endTime":2468.23,"body":"to spend the rest of your career"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2465.77,"endTime":2468.23,"body":"\"Well, actually-ing\" people"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2468.23,"endTime":2471.2,"body":"about this- this frame that you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2468.23,"endTime":2471.2,"body":"have very carefully pulled"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2471.2,"endTime":2475.1,"body":"together, and they're just kind"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2471.2,"endTime":2475.1,"body":"of slapping on. But I also am"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2475.1,"endTime":2478.97,"body":"excited in my (what I suspect"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2475.1,"endTime":2478.97,"body":"Ilyse would call theory nonsense"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2478.97,"endTime":2483.74,"body":"way) about the utility of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2478.97,"endTime":2483.74,"body":"religio-racial frameworks and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2483.74,"endTime":2491.78,"body":"identities, if we take seriously"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2483.74,"endTime":2491.78,"body":"the- the imperative to think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2491.78,"endTime":2497.18,"body":"about racialization. Obviously,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2491.78,"endTime":2497.18,"body":"you know, we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2497.39,"endTime":2501.41,"body":"Islam and Muslims, but also I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2497.39,"endTime":2501.41,"body":"think it could be applied (if"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2501.44,"endTime":2504.38,"body":"folks are thoughtful) to how we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2501.44,"endTime":2504.38,"body":"come to think we are white."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2504.65,"endTime":2508.52,"body":"Right? Well, how I- I, for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2504.65,"endTime":2508.52,"body":"example, came to think I was"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2508.52,"endTime":2511.58,"body":"white, where did I learn that?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2508.52,"endTime":2511.58,"body":"And what role does religion play"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2511.58,"endTime":2516.5,"body":"in that? But also, that was a-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2511.58,"endTime":2516.5,"body":"that was a big conversation,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2516.5,"endTime":2519.32,"body":"when we were pulling the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2516.5,"endTime":2519.32,"body":"roundtable together was like,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2519.35,"endTime":2522.02,"body":"how do we keep religio-racial"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2519.35,"endTime":2522.02,"body":"from being like, Oh, you know,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2522.02,"endTime":2523.76,"body":"Foucault. Power. Next."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2523.94,"endTime":2524.33,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2525.83,"endTime":2528.74,"body":"But I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2525.83,"endTime":2528.74,"body":"also think that- I think that- I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2528.74,"endTime":2532.13,"body":"think two things one is really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2528.74,"endTime":2532.13,"body":"cynical, and one is a little bit"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2532.13,"endTime":2536.87,"body":"more optimistic. And the cynical"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2532.13,"endTime":2536.87,"body":"thing is, is that, like, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2536.87,"endTime":2540.5,"body":"sure that we can do anything"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2536.87,"endTime":2540.5,"body":"about lazy thinkers."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2540.65,"endTime":2541.16,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2541.25,"endTime":2544.37,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2541.25,"endTime":2544.37,"body":"so, if lazy thinkers, are going"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2544.37,"endTime":2550.16,"body":"to take your carefully and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2544.37,"endTime":2550.16,"body":"historically contingent and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2550.16,"endTime":2556.82,"body":"specific, um, theoretical frame"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2550.16,"endTime":2556.82,"body":"and not be as careful and as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2556.82,"endTime":2562.91,"body":"historically specific as they"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2556.82,"endTime":2562.91,"body":"apply it, then, you know, at"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2562.91,"endTime":2565.91,"body":"some level, as my therapist"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2562.91,"endTime":2565.91,"body":"would say, like, \"let it go,\""},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2565.91,"endTime":2568.73,"body":"like, this is not a battle we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2565.91,"endTime":2568.73,"body":"can win because we are not in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2568.73,"endTime":2570.77,"body":"charge of the lazy thinkers."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2570.95,"endTime":2571.43,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2571.51,"endTime":2573.16,"body":"And I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2571.51,"endTime":2573.16,"body":"think- I think Megan knows,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2573.16,"endTime":2575.86,"body":"because she's usually- actually"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2573.16,"endTime":2575.86,"body":"I think, at this point, it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2575.86,"endTime":2578.62,"body":"true that you've read every"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2575.86,"endTime":2578.62,"body":"single word I've ever tried to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2578.62,"endTime":2580.93,"body":"get published, not just the ones"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2578.62,"endTime":2580.93,"body":"that get published, the ones"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2580.93,"endTime":2584.44,"body":"that have tried and failed to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2580.93,"endTime":2584.44,"body":"get published. And I think one"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2584.44,"endTime":2587.8,"body":"of the things that bothers Megan"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2584.44,"endTime":2587.8,"body":"so much is that I, like a good"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2587.8,"endTime":2593.11,"body":"historian, can dwell on like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2587.8,"endTime":2593.11,"body":"half a sentence of this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2593.11,"endTime":2596.08,"body":"particular history that people"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2593.11,"endTime":2596.08,"body":"need to know more about. And so,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2596.08,"endTime":2599.02,"body":"I think, sometimes you're so mad"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2596.08,"endTime":2599.02,"body":"at the carefulness that I think"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2599.02,"endTime":2602.59,"body":"I'm bringing, but I think that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2599.02,"endTime":2602.59,"body":"level of commitment is what,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2602.92,"endTime":2605.44,"body":"like, for someone like me, who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2602.92,"endTime":2605.44,"body":"wants to import this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2605.5,"endTime":2610.51,"body":"religio-racial, religio-racial"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2605.5,"endTime":2610.51,"body":"framework, that- that has"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2610.51,"endTime":2614.23,"body":"nothing to do with my time or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2610.51,"endTime":2614.23,"body":"place, truly. And then if I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2614.23,"endTime":2617.77,"body":"gonna- if I'm going to do that,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2614.23,"endTime":2617.77,"body":"then my job as a scholar is to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2617.77,"endTime":2623.56,"body":"be smart about it. And if that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2617.77,"endTime":2623.56,"body":"takes me, pages, and pages, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2623.56,"endTime":2626.62,"body":"pages to explain how and why I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2623.56,"endTime":2626.62,"body":"feel justified in doing that,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2626.89,"endTime":2629.98,"body":"well, then- then that's my job."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2626.89,"endTime":2629.98,"body":"But it's- I guess it's Megan's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2629.98,"endTime":2632.74,"body":"job to then be like, \"Cool. What"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2629.98,"endTime":2632.74,"body":"if we got rid of these six"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2632.74,"endTime":2633.55,"body":"paragraphs.\""},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2634.47,"endTime":2636.51,"body":"Just make them"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2634.47,"endTime":2636.51,"body":"six paragraphs, instead of one"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2636.51,"endTime":2639.81,"body":"paragraph that takes six pages,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2636.51,"endTime":2639.81,"body":"just saying. But I also want to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2639.81,"endTime":2645.24,"body":"gently offer, and echo, possibly"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2639.81,"endTime":2645.24,"body":"my favorite tweet of all time,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2648.84,"endTime":2650.19,"body":"Megan"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2648.84,"endTime":2650.19,"body":"is obsessed with this tweet."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2650.25,"endTime":2652.41,"body":"I am obsessed"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2650.25,"endTime":2652.41,"body":"with- well it, like, it rewired"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2652.41,"endTime":2655.38,"body":"my brain. And it was also right"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2652.41,"endTime":2655.38,"body":"in the middle of this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2655.38,"endTime":2657.45,"body":"conversation that I was having"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2655.38,"endTime":2657.45,"body":"with Ilyse who also reads all of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2657.45,"endTime":2663.66,"body":"my stuff. That I have noticed a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2657.45,"endTime":2663.66,"body":"reticence among historians to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2663.66,"endTime":2666.57,"body":"claim theory."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2666.72,"endTime":2667.35,"body":"True."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2667.8,"endTime":2673.2,"body":"And I think,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2667.8,"endTime":2673.2,"body":"careful, meticulous historians,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2673.38,"endTime":2679.77,"body":"such as yourselves, actually"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2673.38,"endTime":2679.77,"body":"offer really important, if, uh,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2680.43,"endTime":2684.42,"body":"precise and maybe less"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2680.43,"endTime":2684.42,"body":"universalizing theoretical"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2684.42,"endTime":2688.59,"body":"frames for the study of religion"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2684.42,"endTime":2688.59,"body":"that I wish more people would"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2688.59,"endTime":2695.49,"body":"think about and apply. And so, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2688.59,"endTime":2695.49,"body":"just want smart women to take up"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2695.49,"endTime":2696.99,"body":"more space in the academy, the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2695.49,"endTime":2696.99,"body":"end."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2696.73,"endTime":2699.164,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2696.73,"endTime":2699.164,"body":"and so that's actually, Megan,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2699.231,"endTime":2703.424,"body":"that's- that's like 80% of what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2699.231,"endTime":2703.424,"body":"my optimistic point was. Like,"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2703.491,"endTime":2707.548,"body":"we can't"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2703.491,"endTime":2707.548,"body":"be in charge of lazy thinkers"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2707.616,"endTime":2711.605,"body":"and I'm sorry that lazy thinkers"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2707.616,"endTime":2711.605,"body":"will absolutely abuse your"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2711.673,"endTime":2716.068,"body":"brilliant theory. But I- I think"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2711.673,"endTime":2716.068,"body":"that the optimistic piece for me"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2716.135,"endTime":2720.328,"body":"is, as someone who articulates"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2716.135,"endTime":2720.328,"body":"my own intellectual identity as"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2720.395,"endTime":2724.52,"body":"a historian, I need historians"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2720.395,"endTime":2724.52,"body":"to do careful, meticulous work"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2724.587,"endTime":2728.577,"body":"that has a 'so what,' and I"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2724.587,"endTime":2728.577,"body":"think some history, I think the"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2728.644,"endTime":2732.769,"body":"best history does, and I think"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2728.644,"endTime":2732.769,"body":"some of the worst doesn't. But"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2732.837,"endTime":2737.096,"body":"the 'so what,' for me, can be a"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2732.837,"endTime":2737.096,"body":"place where someone like me can"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2737.164,"endTime":2741.491,"body":"can grasp on and find a foothold"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2737.164,"endTime":2741.491,"body":"and find, um, common vocabulary"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2741.559,"endTime":2745.751,"body":"for the theoretical contribution"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2741.559,"endTime":2745.751,"body":"that I want to make. And so I"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2745.819,"endTime":2749.808,"body":"think- I think giving us that"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2745.819,"endTime":2749.808,"body":"blueprint, I'm curious to see"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2749.876,"endTime":2754.203,"body":"how and where it takes off. And"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2749.876,"endTime":2754.203,"body":"I'm less curious about the lazy-"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2754.271,"endTime":2758.328,"body":"the lazy guys out there. But"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2754.271,"endTime":2758.328,"body":"I'm- I'm- you know, but at some"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2758.396,"endTime":2762.385,"body":"level, like, you could separate"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2758.396,"endTime":2762.385,"body":"the wheat from the chaff on"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2762.453,"endTime":2766.577,"body":"that. And I'm curious to see"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2762.453,"endTime":2766.577,"body":"where- where those of us who see"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2766.645,"endTime":2770.499,"body":"real identification with your"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2766.645,"endTime":2770.499,"body":"historical methods can say,"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2770.566,"endTime":2774.894,"body":"\"Okay, I see where I have a foot"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2770.566,"endTime":2774.894,"body":"in now I see what I need to do."},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2774.962,"endTime":2778.478,"body":"And I don't need to keep"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2774.962,"endTime":2778.478,"body":"fighting Foucault on power,"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2778.545,"endTime":2782.535,"body":"like, why do I need to do that?"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2778.545,"endTime":2782.535,"body":"That's not specific. And it"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2782.602,"endTime":2786.592,"body":"doesn't do much for me, but"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2782.602,"endTime":2786.592,"body":"this, this idea does. So let me"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2786.659,"endTime":2790.581,"body":"run with it.\" And I think- I"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2786.659,"endTime":2790.581,"body":"think we have yet to see the-"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2790.649,"endTime":2794.841,"body":"the next waves of scholars who"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2790.649,"endTime":2794.841,"body":"can think better about race and"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2794.908,"endTime":2798.83,"body":"religion and definitions,"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2794.908,"endTime":2798.83,"body":"because of the doors that you're"},{"speaker":"my cynical point was","startTime":2798.898,"endTime":2801.4,"body":"opening. And I think that's exciting."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2802.83,"endTime":2805.74,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2802.83,"endTime":2805.74,"body":"And I certainly never imagined"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2805.74,"endTime":2810.96,"body":"myself to be a theorist and I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2805.74,"endTime":2810.96,"body":"can- I can- I can recreate the-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2811.89,"endTime":2814.74,"body":"the context for that tweet, can"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2811.89,"endTime":2814.74,"body":"my tweet be in the..?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2815.37,"endTime":2817.17,"body":"Oh, it will"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2815.37,"endTime":2817.17,"body":"absolutely be in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2817.68,"endTime":2820.17,"body":"Yes. I will put that tweet in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2817.68,"endTime":2820.17,"body":"everything."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2821.04,"endTime":2822.99,"body":"That's funny,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2821.04,"endTime":2822.99,"body":"every time- I keep seeing you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2822.99,"endTime":2823.74,"body":"retweet that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2825.04,"endTime":2826.3,"body":"I might make"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2825.04,"endTime":2826.3,"body":"T-shirts. I'm not gonna lie."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2826.6,"endTime":2829.21,"body":"No,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2826.6,"endTime":2829.21,"body":"don't do that. We will just- we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2829.21,"endTime":2831.19,"body":"will embarrass Judith so much."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2831.25,"endTime":2832.93,"body":"Okay. I will keep"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2831.25,"endTime":2832.93,"body":"it on the inside."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2833.2,"endTime":2835.06,"body":"But there was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2833.2,"endTime":2835.06,"body":"a moment where I was like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2836.02,"endTime":2841.84,"body":"actually, I might be doing"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2836.02,"endTime":2841.84,"body":"theory.\" It was a- it was a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2841.84,"endTime":2844.93,"body":"rebel- It was a- it was a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2841.84,"endTime":2844.93,"body":"response to some other things,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2844.93,"endTime":2847.72,"body":"where- where I was being told"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2844.93,"endTime":2847.72,"body":"that what I was doing was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2847.72,"endTime":2852.25,"body":"absolutely not theory, not me in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2847.72,"endTime":2852.25,"body":"specific. But,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2852.0,"endTime":2854.58,"body":"the kind of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2852.0,"endTime":2854.58,"body":"work I do. And I've often"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2852.28,"endTime":2852.55,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2854.58,"endTime":2857.01,"body":"thought, you know, one of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2854.58,"endTime":2857.01,"body":"things, there's nothing I love"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2857.01,"endTime":2861.27,"body":"more than research and the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2857.01,"endTime":2861.27,"body":"challenge of research, like how"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2861.27,"endTime":2865.59,"body":"to find the people I was looking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2861.27,"endTime":2865.59,"body":"for in that book was just the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2865.59,"endTime":2869.97,"body":"most fun I can imagine, the kind"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2865.59,"endTime":2869.97,"body":"of detective work. And so I've"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2869.97,"endTime":2873.27,"body":"always thought, you know, if I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2869.97,"endTime":2873.27,"body":"have something to contribute,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2873.27,"endTime":2879.75,"body":"it's about the kind of- my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2873.27,"endTime":2879.75,"body":"detectively expansive idea of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2879.75,"endTime":2882.6,"body":"like, 'where do you look for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2879.75,"endTime":2882.6,"body":"some of this stuff? And what is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2882.6,"endTime":2885.15,"body":"a source for the study of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2882.6,"endTime":2885.15,"body":"religion?' Right, is it the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2885.15,"endTime":2892.38,"body":"census? I know Ilyse thinks so."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2885.15,"endTime":2892.38,"body":"Is it right, a draft card, or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2892.38,"endTime":2895.11,"body":"whatever. I was surprised, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2892.38,"endTime":2895.11,"body":"then just ran with it. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2895.14,"endTime":2898.11,"body":"anything can be a source for the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2895.14,"endTime":2898.11,"body":"study of religion, but I didn't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2898.11,"endTime":2901.26,"body":"think about myself as- as"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2898.11,"endTime":2901.26,"body":"theorizing anything in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2901.26,"endTime":2905.01,"body":"particular, but- but of course,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2901.26,"endTime":2905.01,"body":"then, you know, I, as someone"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2905.01,"endTime":2911.16,"body":"who has a PhD in religious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2905.01,"endTime":2911.16,"body":"studies and religion, I- theory"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2911.16,"endTime":2915.54,"body":"never spoke to me, because it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2911.16,"endTime":2915.54,"body":"was always something out there"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2915.54,"endTime":2918.96,"body":"that, you know, now, 30 years"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2915.54,"endTime":2918.96,"body":"ago, the course I had to take,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2918.96,"endTime":2922.53,"body":"and two courses, and theories"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2918.96,"endTime":2922.53,"body":"and methods were...they were a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2922.53,"endTime":2926.97,"body":"slog, and I hated them, and I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2922.53,"endTime":2926.97,"body":"couldn't see what they had to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2926.97,"endTime":2929.31,"body":"do, even though, you know, one"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2926.97,"endTime":2929.31,"body":"of them was taught by Al"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2929.31,"endTime":2930.18,"body":"Raboteau,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2930.3,"endTime":2930.9,"body":"Oh!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2931.41,"endTime":2933.63,"body":"and he said,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2931.41,"endTime":2933.63,"body":"you know, it's just, it's no"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2933.63,"endTime":2936.18,"body":"good if it's just out there. So"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2933.63,"endTime":2936.18,"body":"you have to tether it to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2936.18,"endTime":2940.53,"body":"something. And that was very"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2936.18,"endTime":2940.53,"body":"meaningful to me. But I never"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2940.62,"endTime":2943.77,"body":"was quite able, in those days,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2940.62,"endTime":2943.77,"body":"30 years ago, to connect the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2943.77,"endTime":2947.49,"body":"things I was made to read to the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2943.77,"endTime":2947.49,"body":"things I was studying really"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2947.49,"endTime":2951.51,"body":"easily. And so- but taking up"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2947.49,"endTime":2951.51,"body":"these questions about race and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2951.51,"endTime":2954.09,"body":"religion, and really trying to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2951.51,"endTime":2954.09,"body":"think seriously about what I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2954.09,"endTime":2960.6,"body":"came to view as religio-racial"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2954.09,"endTime":2960.6,"body":"identity, and I had to think,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2960.6,"endTime":2963.99,"body":"well, what is their theory of-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2960.6,"endTime":2963.99,"body":"of how all of this works? And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2963.99,"endTime":2969.03,"body":"how do- how do I build it from-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2963.99,"endTime":2969.03,"body":"from there? And so there are-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2969.09,"endTime":2971.97,"body":"there's not, I think, in the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2969.09,"endTime":2971.97,"body":"end, that tweet is the well,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2971.97,"endTime":2975.84,"body":"it's not there's not just THE"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2971.97,"endTime":2975.84,"body":"theory, there are THEORIES, and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2975.84,"endTime":2978.75,"body":"it depends on where, and who"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2975.84,"endTime":2978.75,"body":"you're talking about and what"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2978.75,"endTime":2982.92,"body":"it's for. And so, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2978.75,"endTime":2982.92,"body":"just that tweet was like, \"oh,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2982.92,"endTime":2986.82,"body":"wow, maybe I actually do have"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":2982.92,"endTime":2986.82,"body":"something to say about theory.\""},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2987.24,"endTime":2988.2,"body":"You do."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2988.23,"endTime":2988.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2988.6,"endTime":2992.86,"body":"And- and I love"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2988.6,"endTime":2992.86,"body":"the democratization of theory,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2992.86,"endTime":2995.44,"body":"in that way. Where like A)"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2992.86,"endTime":2995.44,"body":"obviously, we need to see this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2995.44,"endTime":2999.07,"body":"from multiple angles and no one"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2995.44,"endTime":2999.07,"body":"angle is going to be exhaustive,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2999.28,"endTime":3005.1,"body":"but also that the theory comes"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2999.28,"endTime":3005.1,"body":"from the people that you're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3005.19,"endTime":3009.21,"body":"studying and working with, like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3005.19,"endTime":3009.21,"body":"that's just that- that makes me"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3009.21,"endTime":3011.13,"body":"feel tingly in my scholar soul."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3009.21,"endTime":3011.13,"body":"I like it a lot."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3017.25,"endTime":3019.65,"body":"One of the things we cherish"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3017.25,"endTime":3019.65,"body":"about you is how generous you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3019.65,"endTime":3022.11,"body":"are. You've won mentoring"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3019.65,"endTime":3022.11,"body":"awards, your students past and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3022.11,"endTime":3025.14,"body":"present rave about you, you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3022.11,"endTime":3025.14,"body":"know (and cheer for) and promot"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3025.17,"endTime":3028.35,"body":"everyone on Twitter. And yo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3025.17,"endTime":3028.35,"body":"spent time with us two clowns"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3028.47,"endTime":3031.68,"body":"kinda just talking research, a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3028.47,"endTime":3031.68,"body":"d like \"ki-but-zing.\" Did I s"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3031.68,"endTime":3032.97,"body":"y that right? Um, and then.."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3035.81,"endTime":3035.99,"body":"Ki-bit-zing."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3036.08,"endTime":3036.14,"body":"Ki-bit-zing."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3036.57,"endTime":3036.81,"body":"Kibitzing.."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3037.62,"endTime":3038.34,"body":"You're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3037.62,"endTime":3038.34,"body":"doing great."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3039.63,"endTime":3044.1,"body":"Like, I'm only"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3039.63,"endTime":3044.1,"body":"contact Jewish. But it seems"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3044.1,"endTime":3047.28,"body":"silly to as- or it seems silly"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3044.1,"endTime":3047.28,"body":"to ask why you make time for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3047.28,"endTime":3049.89,"body":"folks and center mentoring and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3047.28,"endTime":3049.89,"body":"community, but maybe we're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3049.89,"endTime":3052.11,"body":"asking the stakes of that?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3049.89,"endTime":3052.11,"body":"What's at stake in being"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3052.11,"endTime":3054.12,"body":"generous and kind in our line of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3052.11,"endTime":3054.12,"body":"work?"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3055.5,"endTime":3061.5,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3055.5,"endTime":3061.5,"body":"question. Um, I- people have"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3061.5,"endTime":3065.82,"body":"been kind to me, that's part of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3061.5,"endTime":3065.82,"body":"it. And especially in the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3065.82,"endTime":3075.12,"body":"context of some career bumps."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3065.82,"endTime":3075.12,"body":"And so, I was denied tenure in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3075.12,"endTime":3083.52,"body":"my first job. And that was at- I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3075.12,"endTime":3083.52,"body":"mean, the- the- the real sting"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3083.52,"endTime":3088.23,"body":"of it was that it was at my alma"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3083.52,"endTime":3088.23,"body":"mater, Barnard College, but in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3088.23,"endTime":3095.31,"body":"the Columbia University phase of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3088.23,"endTime":3095.31,"body":"the tenure process, and there-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3096.3,"endTime":3102.15,"body":"that- one- one has to think"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3096.3,"endTime":3102.15,"body":"about the possibility of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3102.15,"endTime":3105.81,"body":"continuing a career. And that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3102.15,"endTime":3105.81,"body":"was a day- in the days when"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3106.65,"endTime":3109.8,"body":"there were actually potentially"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3106.65,"endTime":3109.8,"body":"other jobs and not- not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3109.8,"endTime":3114.87,"body":"certainly, but not the kind of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3109.8,"endTime":3114.87,"body":"professional landscape that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3114.87,"endTime":3120.54,"body":"people face now. So I recognize"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3114.87,"endTime":3120.54,"body":"that, but- but at that juncture,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3120.54,"endTime":3125.85,"body":"I had to decide, do I want to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3120.54,"endTime":3125.85,"body":"try and stay in this and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3125.85,"endTime":3130.8,"body":"continue to do it, or, I don't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3125.85,"endTime":3130.8,"body":"know, go to law school, which"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3130.8,"endTime":3134.04,"body":"had been another option before I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3130.8,"endTime":3134.04,"body":"decided graduate school, or I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3134.04,"endTime":3141.87,"body":"just do something else. And so"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3134.04,"endTime":3141.87,"body":"many people came out to support"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3141.87,"endTime":3149.73,"body":"me, in the wake of that. And-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3141.87,"endTime":3149.73,"body":"and I- I learned that it's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3149.73,"endTime":3154.38,"body":"something that had happened to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3149.73,"endTime":3154.38,"body":"lots of people I knew and had"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3154.59,"endTime":3161.85,"body":"known about it. So the shame of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3154.59,"endTime":3161.85,"body":"it was reduced by- by that and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3161.85,"endTime":3165.81,"body":"just the the number of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3161.85,"endTime":3165.81,"body":"colleagues who came out to say,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3165.81,"endTime":3172.59,"body":"you know, \"what can we do,\" and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3165.81,"endTime":3172.59,"body":"\"it's not you\" and- and so- and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3172.59,"endTime":3178.08,"body":"I got- I did get another job"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3172.59,"endTime":3178.08,"body":"through the efforts of Deborah"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3178.08,"endTime":3182.64,"body":"Dash Moore who's now at the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3178.08,"endTime":3182.64,"body":"University of Michigan, who, and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3182.64,"endTime":3185.46,"body":"several other people rallied"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3182.64,"endTime":3185.46,"body":"around, but Deborah, she didn't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3185.46,"endTime":3189.03,"body":"even know me. We had met, wasn't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3185.46,"endTime":3189.03,"body":"like we were friends, and she"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3189.03,"endTime":3190.74,"body":"said, \"What can I [do]?- but she"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3189.03,"endTime":3190.74,"body":"called me up, she said, \"What"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3190.74,"endTime":3195.36,"body":"can I do? Can I try and do"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3190.74,"endTime":3195.36,"body":"something\" and so she's a model"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3195.36,"endTime":3198.45,"body":"for me, where I was fortunate to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3195.36,"endTime":3198.45,"body":"be her colleague for- for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3198.87,"endTime":3205.17,"body":"several years at Vassar. And I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3198.87,"endTime":3205.17,"body":"just, I don't know, I- I'm not"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3205.17,"endTime":3209.43,"body":"in it for anything, but that."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3205.17,"endTime":3209.43,"body":"Like to help people, in the end."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3209.43,"endTime":3212.64,"body":"And to know stuff. Like, I just-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3209.43,"endTime":3212.64,"body":"I think, I can't know what I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3212.64,"endTime":3220.41,"body":"want to know, without other"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3212.64,"endTime":3220.41,"body":"people. And so engaging other"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3220.41,"endTime":3225.57,"body":"people's work and helping other"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3220.41,"endTime":3225.57,"body":"people develop projects is- is"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3225.57,"endTime":3228.63,"body":"so exciting. And I think, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3225.57,"endTime":3228.63,"body":"also- mentoring, I spent more of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3228.63,"endTime":3232.83,"body":"my career still, then as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3228.63,"endTime":3232.83,"body":"teaching in small liberal arts"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3232.83,"endTime":3237.48,"body":"colleges, then in a university"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3232.83,"endTime":3237.48,"body":"with graduate students. I hadn't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3237.48,"endTime":3240.93,"body":"worked with graduate students"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3237.48,"endTime":3240.93,"body":"for most of my career, although"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3240.99,"endTime":3244.98,"body":"catching up now. And- and I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3240.99,"endTime":3244.98,"body":"just, it was something that I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3244.98,"endTime":3249.15,"body":"never felt that I- I never felt"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3244.98,"endTime":3249.15,"body":"like I knew enough to do it."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3249.69,"endTime":3253.38,"body":"And, but when I think about it,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3249.69,"endTime":3253.38,"body":"but then I jumped into the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3253.38,"endTime":3255.93,"body":"opportunity when it came to me"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3253.38,"endTime":3255.93,"body":"and when I think about it as"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3255.93,"endTime":3261.06,"body":"mentoring, it's easier to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3255.93,"endTime":3261.06,"body":"imagine that I can do it. So I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3261.06,"endTime":3266.04,"body":"hate the language of \"training\""},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3261.06,"endTime":3266.04,"body":"graduate students. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3266.04,"endTime":3270.06,"body":"mentoring people and helping"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3266.04,"endTime":3270.06,"body":"them become who they want to be"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3270.06,"endTime":3273.21,"body":"as scholars. And so then, you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3270.06,"endTime":3273.21,"body":"know, I don't have to know"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3273.21,"endTime":3277.47,"body":"everything to do that. And I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3273.21,"endTime":3277.47,"body":"also feel in that totally like"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3277.68,"endTime":3283.74,"body":"Mr. Burns in the Bart's Blood"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3277.68,"endTime":3283.74,"body":"episode [of the Simpsons]. I am"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3283.92,"endTime":3292.05,"body":"so lucky to be infused with some"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3283.92,"endTime":3292.05,"body":"intellectual blood, really great"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3292.17,"endTime":3296.07,"body":"people who are doing great work."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3292.17,"endTime":3296.07,"body":"So I just love it and I, you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3296.07,"endTime":3302.61,"body":"know, I um- I want to build"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3296.07,"endTime":3302.61,"body":"field of scholars who work on"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3302.61,"endTime":3307.86,"body":"black religions who support each"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3302.61,"endTime":3307.86,"body":"other and just advance knowledge"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3307.86,"endTime":3311.64,"body":"and show the world that what we"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3307.86,"endTime":3311.64,"body":"study is important."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3312.21,"endTime":3312.72,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3313.17,"endTime":3314.19,"body":"Yes to all of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3313.17,"endTime":3314.19,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3314.19,"endTime":3314.58,"body":"All of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3314.19,"endTime":3314.58,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3314.58,"endTime":3319.92,"body":"Thank you. Ah, my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3314.58,"endTime":3319.92,"body":"emotions. My emotions!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3321.21,"endTime":3324.45,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3321.21,"endTime":3324.45,"body":"man. Okay, well, I guess- I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3324.45,"endTime":3327.54,"body":"guess I'm gonna ask you our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3324.45,"endTime":3327.54,"body":"questions. So as you know, we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3327.54,"endTime":3329.73,"body":"always end with homework"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3327.54,"endTime":3329.73,"body":"assignments. So I have to-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3329.76,"endTime":3331.26,"body":"Wait, wait! She"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3329.76,"endTime":3331.26,"body":"gets to ask us questions."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3331.26,"endTime":3332.73,"body":"Oh! Um..."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3333.3,"endTime":3334.17,"body":"Unless you don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3333.3,"endTime":3334.17,"body":"want to."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3337.69,"endTime":3344.11,"body":"I'm gonna ask"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3337.69,"endTime":3344.11,"body":"you the, um, well, you answer"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3344.11,"endTime":3349.54,"body":"all these questions all the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3344.11,"endTime":3349.54,"body":"time. I actually am interested"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3349.54,"endTime":3354.52,"body":"in that- in the questions you"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3349.54,"endTime":3354.52,"body":"sent in advance, the thing that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3354.88,"endTime":3358.51,"body":"I struggled with most actually"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3354.88,"endTime":3358.51,"body":"was one of my own writing, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3358.51,"endTime":3362.83,"body":"would assign like, I don't like"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3358.51,"endTime":3362.83,"body":"to teach my own work, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3362.83,"endTime":3365.77,"body":"interested in maybe a different"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3362.83,"endTime":3365.77,"body":"question or like, what's the,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3366.16,"endTime":3370.36,"body":"the piece of work you've done"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3366.16,"endTime":3370.36,"body":"that you're most proud of? Or..."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3370.45,"endTime":3370.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3371.05,"endTime":3371.8,"body":"Excited"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3371.05,"endTime":3371.8,"body":"about?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3372.88,"endTime":3375.97,"body":"I will"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3372.88,"endTime":3375.97,"body":"happily rephrase to that. That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3375.97,"endTime":3376.48,"body":"great."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3377.41,"endTime":3379.33,"body":"Well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3377.41,"endTime":3379.33,"body":"that's the question I'm asking"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3379.33,"endTime":3379.54,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3380.26,"endTime":3381.37,"body":"Oh no!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3380.26,"endTime":3381.37,"body":"Of us?!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3382.45,"endTime":3383.92,"body":"What are you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3382.45,"endTime":3383.92,"body":"proud of Ilyse?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3384.29,"endTime":3389.15,"body":"I, uh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3384.29,"endTime":3389.15,"body":"um... I suppose I'm proud that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3389.15,"endTime":3392.12,"body":"my book got finished. Like that-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3389.15,"endTime":3392.12,"body":"that is like- I don't know that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3392.12,"endTime":3396.2,"body":"I'm proud of the writing, but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3392.12,"endTime":3396.2,"body":"I'm proud that it happened. And,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3396.29,"endTime":3400.04,"body":"um, you know what, I'll say that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3396.29,"endTime":3400.04,"body":"I have a, I have an article"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3400.04,"endTime":3403.73,"body":"coming out in the Journal of the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3400.04,"endTime":3403.73,"body":"American Academy of Religion"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3403.73,"endTime":3409.94,"body":"about job ads, which sounds like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3403.73,"endTime":3409.94,"body":"a really unlikely and strange"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3410.15,"endTime":3414.86,"body":"thing to study. But I have been"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3410.15,"endTime":3414.86,"body":"keeping, I essentially built a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3414.86,"endTime":3420.02,"body":"database of job ads in Islamic"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3414.86,"endTime":3420.02,"body":"Studies since 2011. And I did"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3420.02,"endTime":3424.25,"body":"some statistical analysis on it."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3420.02,"endTime":3424.25,"body":"And it's a pretty- it's a pretty"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3424.25,"endTime":3426.89,"body":"big project and it'll be out, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3424.25,"endTime":3426.89,"body":"think it's supposed to be out"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3426.89,"endTime":3431.27,"body":"this December. So it's December"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3426.89,"endTime":3431.27,"body":"2020. And I'm proud of it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3431.27,"endTime":3433.91,"body":"because I think it does really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3431.27,"endTime":3433.91,"body":"good work at all of the things"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3433.91,"endTime":3437.51,"body":"we've been talking about, but in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3433.91,"endTime":3437.51,"body":"this really hands-on practical"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3437.51,"endTime":3443.24,"body":"way. So I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3437.51,"endTime":3443.24,"body":"stereotyping and racializing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3443.24,"endTime":3447.83,"body":"Islam as ethnically Arab,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3443.24,"endTime":3447.83,"body":"linguistically, Arabic and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3447.83,"endTime":3451.76,"body":"regionally tied to the Middle"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3447.83,"endTime":3451.76,"body":"East and using the way that we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3451.76,"endTime":3456.23,"body":"tell each other what's- what's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3451.76,"endTime":3456.23,"body":"profitable, what's hireable,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3456.23,"endTime":3462.26,"body":"what's materially beneficial to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3456.23,"endTime":3462.26,"body":"know, and to know about, and to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3462.26,"endTime":3465.32,"body":"teach about, and to research"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3462.26,"endTime":3465.32,"body":"about, about Islam in these job"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3465.32,"endTime":3468.56,"body":"ads. So I've made a meal out of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3465.32,"endTime":3468.56,"body":"these little paragraphs that get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3468.56,"endTime":3473.18,"body":"written by like, 40 people in a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3468.56,"endTime":3473.18,"body":"committee with HR approval. But"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3473.18,"endTime":3477.44,"body":"I think- I think- I think for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3473.18,"endTime":3477.44,"body":"me, too, I struggled in those"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3477.44,"endTime":3481.31,"body":"theory classes of having"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3477.44,"endTime":3481.31,"body":"something to tether my own ideas"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3481.31,"endTime":3487.1,"body":"to. And this feels like the most"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3481.31,"endTime":3487.1,"body":"tethered I have ever been, with"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3487.1,"endTime":3490.73,"body":"some real to do lists for our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3487.1,"endTime":3490.73,"body":"colleagues, like, if you get the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3490.73,"endTime":3494.06,"body":"opportunity in this market to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3490.73,"endTime":3494.06,"body":"write a job ad for Islam, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3494.06,"endTime":3497.57,"body":"don't want to see the word"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3494.06,"endTime":3497.57,"body":"Middle East in it, please! There"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3497.57,"endTime":3501.17,"body":"are other places that Muslims"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3497.57,"endTime":3501.17,"body":"live and colleagues who think"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3501.17,"endTime":3504.23,"body":"about them in brilliant ways"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3501.17,"endTime":3504.23,"body":"that can benefit your department"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3504.23,"endTime":3507.8,"body":"and our students and our world."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3504.23,"endTime":3507.8,"body":"But like, you got to be willing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3507.8,"endTime":3511.58,"body":"to see them as valid thinkers."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3507.8,"endTime":3511.58,"body":"So- so yeah, I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3511.58,"endTime":3512.84,"body":"piece I'm most proud of."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3513.17,"endTime":3516.59,"body":"So if I hear"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3513.17,"endTime":3516.59,"body":"what you're saying, fields"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3516.59,"endTime":3519.86,"body":"within the study of religion"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3516.59,"endTime":3519.86,"body":"have histories and are"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3519.86,"endTime":3524.69,"body":"constructed and don't exist out"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3519.86,"endTime":3524.69,"body":"there, like, pre-formed"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3525.47,"endTime":3526.22,"body":"entities."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3526.91,"endTime":3528.47,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3526.91,"endTime":3528.47,"body":"is exactly right."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3530.84,"endTime":3533.03,"body":"Um, I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3530.84,"endTime":3533.03,"body":"auditioning for co-host."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3533.33,"endTime":3533.72,"body":"Love it."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3533.72,"endTime":3534.11,"body":"I love"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3533.72,"endTime":3534.11,"body":"it!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3534.47,"endTime":3536.33,"body":"Anytime you want"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3534.47,"endTime":3536.33,"body":"to come back, anytime."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3536.72,"endTime":3540.44,"body":"I seem to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3536.72,"endTime":3540.44,"body":"recall a heated convo on the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3540.44,"endTime":3543.62,"body":"wiki about this topic in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3540.44,"endTime":3543.62,"body":"particular."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3543.68,"endTime":3544.01,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3545.05,"endTime":3547.66,"body":"Okay, I have to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3545.05,"endTime":3547.66,"body":"be proud of something. I- Hmm."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3548.23,"endTime":3551.05,"body":"Well, it feels like my book came"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3548.23,"endTime":3551.05,"body":"out 3 million years ago, but it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3551.05,"endTime":3556.75,"body":"actually just came out in July."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3551.05,"endTime":3556.75,"body":"And- and yeah, I am proud that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3556.75,"endTime":3561.7,"body":"that came out at all. But I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3556.75,"endTime":3561.7,"body":"think the the piece that I like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3561.76,"endTime":3568.24,"body":"best about it was realizing, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3561.76,"endTime":3568.24,"body":"think similar to you, Judith,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3568.24,"endTime":3570.82,"body":"realizing that like oh, what you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3568.24,"endTime":3570.82,"body":"want to talk about here is this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3570.91,"endTime":3575.26,"body":"religio-racial identity piece."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3570.91,"endTime":3575.26,"body":"Realizing truly a month before I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3575.26,"endTime":3578.17,"body":"had to turn in my final"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3575.26,"endTime":3578.17,"body":"manuscript, that the entire book"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3578.17,"endTime":3581.14,"body":"was way more about Catholics and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3578.17,"endTime":3581.14,"body":"Catholicism than I had realized."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3582.19,"endTime":3586.06,"body":"Which led to a lot of scrambling"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3582.19,"endTime":3586.06,"body":"on my part, because I am not a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3586.45,"endTime":3590.98,"body":"Catholic studies person. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3586.45,"endTime":3590.98,"body":"a Catholic historian. And yet I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3590.98,"endTime":3596.5,"body":"kept seeing the ways that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3590.98,"endTime":3596.5,"body":"America understood not just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3596.5,"endTime":3599.86,"body":"religion, but sexual morality"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3596.5,"endTime":3599.86,"body":"broadly, as this really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3600.37,"endTime":3605.62,"body":"curiously Catholic formation,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3600.37,"endTime":3605.62,"body":"seemed very important but also"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3605.62,"endTime":3608.11,"body":"kind of surprised me, given that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3605.62,"endTime":3608.11,"body":"I had been writing the book for,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3608.26,"endTime":3613.48,"body":"I dunno, five years. So seeing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3608.26,"endTime":3613.48,"body":"that come together and realize,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3613.51,"endTime":3618.94,"body":"Oh, I am not just talking about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3613.51,"endTime":3618.94,"body":"folks on the margin, and we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3618.94,"endTime":3624.01,"body":"can't only think about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3618.94,"endTime":3624.01,"body":"marginalized and minoritized"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3624.01,"endTime":3630.61,"body":"religions as separate- as"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3624.01,"endTime":3630.61,"body":"separate from this whole"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3630.61,"endTime":3633.19,"body":"structure of power that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3630.61,"endTime":3633.19,"body":"minoritized and marginalized"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3633.19,"endTime":3637.51,"body":"them, was terrifying. And it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3633.19,"endTime":3637.51,"body":"felt like opened me up to a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3637.51,"endTime":3640.57,"body":"whole new line of criticism on a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3637.51,"endTime":3640.57,"body":"project that already gets me"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3640.57,"endTime":3646.54,"body":"yelled at on the regular, but I-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3640.57,"endTime":3646.54,"body":"I feel best about (seems silly,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3646.78,"endTime":3650.71,"body":"but it's true)- I feel best"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3646.78,"endTime":3650.71,"body":"about figuring out what my book"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3650.71,"endTime":3655.21,"body":"was about before I had to turn"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3650.71,"endTime":3655.21,"body":"it in. I think I was very close"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3655.21,"endTime":3658.75,"body":"to not realizing what I wanted"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3655.21,"endTime":3658.75,"body":"to say until after I had already"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3658.75,"endTime":3660.1,"body":"settled the other things. So."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3660.97,"endTime":3662.44,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3660.97,"endTime":3662.44,"body":"definitely something to be proud"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3662.44,"endTime":3665.8,"body":"of. And I think, try- finding a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3662.44,"endTime":3665.8,"body":"way to integrate both of those"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3665.8,"endTime":3670.45,"body":"into one text is really- that's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3665.8,"endTime":3670.45,"body":"a lot of work, so. And I think"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3670.45,"endTime":3673.54,"body":"about my own work as a kind of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3670.45,"endTime":3673.54,"body":"pendulum back and forth between-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3673.9,"endTime":3677.14,"body":"between religious communities"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3673.9,"endTime":3677.14,"body":"and their expressions, and then"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3677.41,"endTime":3681.73,"body":"the context of racialization"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3677.41,"endTime":3681.73,"body":"that- that works to constrain"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3681.73,"endTime":3685.03,"body":"them and kind of do one and then"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3681.73,"endTime":3685.03,"body":"the other, one and the other and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3685.51,"endTime":3687.43,"body":"bringing them together is really"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3685.51,"endTime":3687.43,"body":"hard."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3688.33,"endTime":3690.49,"body":"Yeah, it was hard"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3688.33,"endTime":3690.49,"body":"and messy and stressful. But-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3690.52,"endTime":3693.73,"body":"but- and- and I'm sure, you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3690.52,"endTime":3693.73,"body":"know, in a year and a half, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3693.73,"endTime":3696.01,"body":"will have completely different"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3693.73,"endTime":3696.01,"body":"ways that I'd want to say that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3696.01,"endTime":3700.69,"body":"but I- I said a thing. And even"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3696.01,"endTime":3700.69,"body":"if I need to nuance it, or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3700.69,"endTime":3705.55,"body":"completely contradict myself,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3700.69,"endTime":3705.55,"body":"later I- I did that. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3705.55,"endTime":3709.48,"body":"that feels good. Good therapy,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3705.55,"endTime":3709.48,"body":"everybody."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3709.84,"endTime":3712.36,"body":"I know, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3709.84,"endTime":3712.36,"body":"have two...I'll say two things"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3712.36,"endTime":3714.01,"body":"quickly. This is what I was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3712.36,"endTime":3714.01,"body":"thinking about. So I have this"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3714.01,"endTime":3719.8,"body":"one article about Julie Dash's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3714.01,"endTime":3719.8,"body":"Daughters of the Dust, most the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3719.8,"endTime":3724.51,"body":"film I've written about is from"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3719.8,"endTime":3724.51,"body":"the 1930s: early sound film."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3724.51,"endTime":3730.33,"body":"And- and I- and S. Brent Plate"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3724.51,"endTime":3730.33,"body":"invited me to contribute to that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3730.33,"endTime":3735.37,"body":"volume on representing religion"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3730.33,"endTime":3735.37,"body":"and World Cinema. And I was- it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3735.37,"endTime":3739.27,"body":"was a- I was in a- I was just"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3735.37,"endTime":3739.27,"body":"overwhelmed with work and I just"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3739.27,"endTime":3742.45,"body":"couldn't have find the time to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3739.27,"endTime":3742.45,"body":"write this thing. And I just, I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3742.45,"endTime":3745.06,"body":"sat down I thought, Okay, I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3742.45,"endTime":3745.06,"body":"gonna, I'm gonna write this,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3745.06,"endTime":3751.39,"body":"like, I'm somebody else who"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3745.06,"endTime":3751.39,"body":"likes to write and writes, and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3751.39,"endTime":3755.2,"body":"so it just kind of flowed out of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3751.39,"endTime":3755.2,"body":"me. And it was something that"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3755.2,"endTime":3758.29,"body":"had built up over a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3755.2,"endTime":3758.29,"body":"because it's a movie I love a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3758.29,"endTime":3762.58,"body":"lot. And so I'm- I'm proud of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3758.29,"endTime":3762.58,"body":"the writing in that, I struggle"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3762.58,"endTime":3767.23,"body":"with- with writing and I try and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3762.58,"endTime":3767.23,"body":"write better, but that was one"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3767.23,"endTime":3769.9,"body":"of these I did! I actually"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3767.23,"endTime":3769.9,"body":"achieved that I can't replicate."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3769.9,"endTime":3772.66,"body":"I was like, I'm gonna write like"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3769.9,"endTime":3772.66,"body":"someone who writes well, and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3772.69,"endTime":3777.07,"body":"easily, and enjoys writing for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3772.69,"endTime":3777.07,"body":"these two days, I'm just gonna"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3777.07,"endTime":3780.34,"body":"write this. And so there's that,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3777.07,"endTime":3780.34,"body":"and then the other one I like is"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3780.34,"endTime":3789.13,"body":"the recent in the Devotions and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3780.34,"endTime":3789.13,"body":"Desires, the collection, Gil"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3789.13,"endTime":3793.54,"body":"Frank, Heather White, and Beth"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3789.13,"endTime":3793.54,"body":"Moreton co-edited on Histories"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3793.54,"endTime":3796.3,"body":"of Religion and Sexuality in"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3793.54,"endTime":3796.3,"body":"20th Century America, and it's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3796.3,"endTime":3801.55,"body":"a- it it's a spin off from- from"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3796.3,"endTime":3801.55,"body":"New World A-Coming, it's about a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3801.55,"endTime":3805.15,"body":"woman in- in Father Divine's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3801.55,"endTime":3805.15,"body":"peace mission. And it was just-"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3805.39,"endTime":3810.01,"body":"I opened a box in an archive and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3805.39,"endTime":3810.01,"body":"found a story that was just"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3810.01,"endTime":3812.32,"body":"really curious to me, I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3810.01,"endTime":3812.32,"body":"quite make sense of these"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3812.32,"endTime":3818.17,"body":"documents. And so I wrote about"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3812.32,"endTime":3818.17,"body":"them and photographs, several"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3818.17,"endTime":3822.31,"body":"times in different forms. And"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3818.17,"endTime":3822.31,"body":"this article is about celibacy"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3822.31,"endTime":3826.75,"body":"and same sex- raced celibacy and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3822.31,"endTime":3826.75,"body":"same sex desire and- in Father"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3826.78,"endTime":3830.95,"body":"Divine's movement, and just as a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3826.78,"endTime":3830.95,"body":"kind of exercise in- in a"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3830.95,"endTime":3834.97,"body":"certain kind of restraint and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3830.95,"endTime":3834.97,"body":"discipline in reading those and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3834.97,"endTime":3840.43,"body":"not deciding what was going on"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3834.97,"endTime":3840.43,"body":"there. So I really sat with them"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3840.43,"endTime":3844.99,"body":"for a long time to do my best to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3840.43,"endTime":3844.99,"body":"do what I thought was kind of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3845.02,"endTime":3849.34,"body":"more true to them, then- then"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3845.02,"endTime":3849.34,"body":"the context as I understood it,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3849.34,"endTime":3853.51,"body":"then to what I- I expected or"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3849.34,"endTime":3853.51,"body":"assumed, because I just- I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3853.51,"endTime":3856.0,"body":"opened this box that I thought"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3853.51,"endTime":3856.0,"body":"these are love letters between"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3856.0,"endTime":3860.62,"body":"women. Oh good! But then I had"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3856.0,"endTime":3860.62,"body":"to just sit up, step back and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3860.62,"endTime":3865.18,"body":"say, \"Oh, are they, and if so,"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3860.62,"endTime":3865.18,"body":"what does that mean?\" So I'm"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3865.18,"endTime":3868.15,"body":"proud of the- the restraint I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3865.18,"endTime":3868.15,"body":"showed in the process."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3869.71,"endTime":3875.89,"body":"That's- that's,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3869.71,"endTime":3875.89,"body":"well, and... that's....I think a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3875.89,"endTime":3881.26,"body":"longing for queer ancestors is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3875.89,"endTime":3881.26,"body":"really powerful. And I think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3881.26,"endTime":3884.92,"body":"maybe some of our best work"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3881.26,"endTime":3884.92,"body":"comes out of resisting the urge"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3884.92,"endTime":3887.44,"body":"to decide that we already know"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3884.92,"endTime":3887.44,"body":"what all of this means. So"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3887.44,"endTime":3889.33,"body":"that's that sounds like goals to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3887.44,"endTime":3889.33,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3889.45,"endTime":3893.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3889.45,"endTime":3893.92,"body":"Well, so I'm wondering if- if"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3894.22,"endTime":3896.98,"body":"those pieces that we're most"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3894.22,"endTime":3896.98,"body":"proud of seem like great"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3896.98,"endTime":3898.15,"body":"homework for this episode."},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":3899.38,"endTime":3901.15,"body":"Homework? What"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":3899.38,"endTime":3901.15,"body":"Homework?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3901.54,"endTime":3903.94,"body":"That sounds great"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3901.54,"endTime":3903.94,"body":"to me. I- I'm wondering if"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3903.94,"endTime":3906.25,"body":"there's anything else Judith"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3903.94,"endTime":3906.25,"body":"wants to assign our nerds."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3907.21,"endTime":3909.85,"body":"I love- I was"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3907.21,"endTime":3909.85,"body":"thinking about this a lot, so I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3909.85,"endTime":3913.15,"body":"teach a course on race and"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3909.85,"endTime":3913.15,"body":"religion in America and one of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3913.15,"endTime":3916.63,"body":"the every year favorites of the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3913.15,"endTime":3916.63,"body":"students and a book I love to"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3916.63,"endTime":3925.12,"body":"teach is Jane Iwamura's Virtual"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3916.63,"endTime":3925.12,"body":"Orientalism. And it's- it's got"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3926.5,"endTime":3929.71,"body":"an interesting material, some of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3926.5,"endTime":3929.71,"body":"it harder to find over the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3929.71,"endTime":3936.37,"body":"years, but it kind of multimedia"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3929.71,"endTime":3936.37,"body":"study of how representations of"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3936.37,"endTime":3940.78,"body":"race and religion using Asian"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3936.37,"endTime":3940.78,"body":"religions and Asian and Asian"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3940.78,"endTime":3947.14,"body":"Americans shape how Americans"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3940.78,"endTime":3947.14,"body":"think about, again, both race"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3947.14,"endTime":3951.1,"body":"and religion. And students love"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3947.14,"endTime":3951.1,"body":"the book and I love teaching it"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3951.1,"endTime":3953.23,"body":"and I'm grateful to Jane for"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3951.1,"endTime":3953.23,"body":"writing it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3953.98,"endTime":3955.33,"body":"That sounds"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3953.98,"endTime":3955.33,"body":"fascinating. I don't know this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3955.33,"endTime":3956.89,"body":"one. This is homework for me. I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3955.33,"endTime":3956.89,"body":"love it."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3957.91,"endTime":3960.7,"body":"First chapter"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3957.91,"endTime":3960.7,"body":"on Kung Fu the TV show."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3961.09,"endTime":3963.1,"body":"Oooh, I used to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3961.09,"endTime":3963.1,"body":"watch that with my dad. It's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3963.1,"endTime":3968.92,"body":"such a problem. I mean, like my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3963.1,"endTime":3968.92,"body":"dad's a problem, but also the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3968.92,"endTime":3972.55,"body":"show. It's true. I love him. He"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3968.92,"endTime":3972.55,"body":"knows."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3973.51,"endTime":3977.59,"body":"Alright."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3973.51,"endTime":3977.59,"body":"Well, I think that brings us to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3977.59,"endTime":3983.5,"body":"the end. So thank you so much,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3977.59,"endTime":3983.5,"body":"Judith, this was a delight"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3983.53,"endTime":3983.89,"body":"and..."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3983.89,"endTime":3984.55,"body":"It really was."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":3984.85,"endTime":3985.27,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3985.27,"endTime":3986.95,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3985.27,"endTime":3986.95,"body":"are welcome back anytime you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3986.95,"endTime":3991.54,"body":"want to come back. I guess this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3986.95,"endTime":3991.54,"body":"is the part where I say: peace"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":3991.54,"endTime":3992.35,"body":"out, nerds."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3993.1,"endTime":3995.02,"body":"Do your homework!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":3993.1,"endTime":3995.02,"body":"It's on the syllabus."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4012.96,"endTime":4016.23,"body":"The only"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4012.96,"endTime":4016.23,"body":"thing I missed was, um, what's"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4017.79,"endTime":4020.04,"body":"the segment where you talk about"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4017.79,"endTime":4020.04,"body":"yourself?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":4020.04,"endTime":4022.02,"body":"[singing] Oh,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":4020.04,"endTime":4022.02,"body":"primary sources."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4026.07,"endTime":4027.48,"body":"The"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4026.07,"endTime":4027.48,"body":"whole thing is primary source"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4027.54,"endTime":4027.87,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4028.71,"endTime":4031.05,"body":"I wouldn't I"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4028.71,"endTime":4031.05,"body":"wouldn't mind if you inserted"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4031.05,"endTime":4032.4,"body":"that in somewhere."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":4033.83,"endTime":4034.55,"body":"I can do that."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4035.86,"endTime":4037.78,"body":"Ilyse laughs"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4035.86,"endTime":4037.78,"body":"the same way every time."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4037.91,"endTime":4040.25,"body":"I do!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4037.91,"endTime":4040.25,"body":"It makes me giggle so much. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4040.25,"endTime":4041.15,"body":"Megan does too."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":4041.15,"endTime":4041.42,"body":"It's so dumb!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4041.15,"endTime":4041.96,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4041.15,"endTime":4041.96,"body":"so silly."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":4043.0,"endTime":4043.27,"body":"It's stupid!"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4043.27,"endTime":4045.13,"body":"Well, I've"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4043.27,"endTime":4045.13,"body":"listened to all the episodes."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4045.45,"endTime":4048.72,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4045.45,"endTime":4048.72,"body":"make me so- it makes me blush,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4048.75,"endTime":4050.1,"body":"that just makes me blush."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":4050.16,"endTime":4052.2,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":4050.16,"endTime":4052.2,"body":"Thank you so much. This was so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4052.0,"endTime":4053.83,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4052.0,"endTime":4053.83,"body":"was so delightful. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4052.2,"endTime":4052.35,"body":"lovely."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4053.83,"endTime":4057.28,"body":"taking the time, especially"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4053.83,"endTime":4057.28,"body":"because we know how busy- we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4057.28,"endTime":4060.19,"body":"know how busy we are, so we can"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4057.28,"endTime":4060.19,"body":"only imagine that that at least"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4060.19,"endTime":4063.1,"body":"applies to everyone else right"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4060.19,"endTime":4063.1,"body":"now. So thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4063.14,"endTime":4065.0,"body":"But the only"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4063.14,"endTime":4065.0,"body":"thing keeping us going is the"},{"speaker":"Judith Weisenfeld","startTime":4065.0,"endTime":4066.11,"body":"fun stuff. Right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":4066.0,"endTime":4066.81,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4066.84,"endTime":4068.4,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":4066.84,"endTime":4068.4,"body":"how both of us feel actually."}]}