{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":17.55,"endTime":19.38,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":17.55,"endTime":19.38,"body":"is Keeping It 101, a killjoy's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":19.41,"endTime":22.32,"body":"introduction to religion"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":19.41,"endTime":22.32,"body":"podcast. This season our work is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":22.32,"endTime":24.69,"body":"made possible in part through a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":22.32,"endTime":24.69,"body":"generous grant from the New"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":24.69,"endTime":27.48,"body":"England Humanities Consortium,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":24.69,"endTime":27.48,"body":"with additional support from the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":27.48,"endTime":30.09,"body":"University of Vermont's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":27.48,"endTime":30.09,"body":"Humanities Center. We are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":30.09,"endTime":33.06,"body":"grateful to live, teach, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":30.09,"endTime":33.06,"body":"record on the ancestral and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":33.06,"endTime":36.99,"body":"unseeded lands of the Abenaki,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":33.06,"endTime":36.99,"body":"Wabenaki, and Aucocisco peoples,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":37.2,"endTime":39.42,"body":"and our guest is coming to us"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":37.2,"endTime":39.42,"body":"from the lands of the Lenni"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":39.42,"endTime":39.81,"body":"Lenape."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":40.71,"endTime":43.02,"body":"What's up, nerds?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":40.71,"endTime":43.02,"body":"Hi, hello, I'm Megan Goodwin, a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":43.02,"endTime":45.48,"body":"scholar of American religions,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":43.02,"endTime":45.48,"body":"race and gender."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":45.54,"endTime":47.19,"body":"Hi,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":45.54,"endTime":47.19,"body":"hello, I'm Ilyse Morgenstein"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":47.19,"endTime":50.19,"body":"Fuerst, a historian of religion,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":47.19,"endTime":50.19,"body":"Islam, race and racialization,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":50.19,"endTime":51.27,"body":"and South Asia."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":51.93,"endTime":54.06,"body":"Ilyse, we need to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":51.93,"endTime":54.06,"body":"we need to just jump in because"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":54.06,"endTime":56.82,"body":"I'm too starstruck, just- just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":54.06,"endTime":56.82,"body":"do the thing? Please?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":56.7,"endTime":65.34,"body":"Alright, in that case, Hi, Dr. Butler. Before- before we get into it, would you prefer to be called Anthea or Dr. Butler"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":56.7,"endTime":65.34,"body":"today?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":65.33,"endTime":67.34,"body":"Well, since I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":65.33,"endTime":67.34,"body":"tried to sign in and say I was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":67.34,"endTime":69.92,"body":"the biggest bitch in the world,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":67.34,"endTime":69.92,"body":"Anthea wi"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":71.39,"endTime":74.12,"body":"I mean, we're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":71.39,"endTime":74.12,"body":"happy to address you as Dr."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":74.12,"endTime":74.84,"body":"Bitch if that's..."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":74.9,"endTime":76.22,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":74.9,"endTime":76.22,"body":"probably- some people after they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":76.22,"endTime":78.41,"body":"read my book will say I'm the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":76.22,"endTime":78.41,"body":"biggest bitch in the world, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":78.41,"endTime":80.39,"body":"let's just go with Anthea for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":78.41,"endTime":80.39,"body":"the podcast. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":80.39,"endTime":80.99,"body":"gonna be worth it."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":81.05,"endTime":83.72,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":81.05,"endTime":83.72,"body":"is perfect. Well, it's great to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":83.72,"endTime":84.44,"body":"have you here."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":85.46,"endTime":85.64,"body":"Yes ma'am!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":85.64,"endTime":87.62,"body":"I like to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":85.64,"endTime":87.62,"body":"have you all here too. And just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":87.62,"endTime":90.17,"body":"for the record, you know, we've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":87.62,"endTime":90.17,"body":"all had these conversations"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":90.17,"endTime":93.05,"body":"about how you should be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":90.17,"endTime":93.05,"body":"addressed, but Ilyse and Megan"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":93.05,"endTime":96.71,"body":"can call me Anthea, because we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":93.05,"endTime":96.71,"body":"have a relationship A), and B)"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":96.86,"endTime":100.19,"body":"you know, it's all Professor"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":96.86,"endTime":100.19,"body":"ladies here. And you know, we're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":100.19,"endTime":102.2,"body":"going to be easy with each"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":100.19,"endTime":102.2,"body":"other. And we're not going to do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":102.2,"endTime":104.63,"body":"this formal white guy stuff. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":102.2,"endTime":104.63,"body":"let's just put that out there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":104.63,"endTime":105.08,"body":"right now."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":105.36,"endTime":107.85,"body":"Okay, I love"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":105.36,"endTime":107.85,"body":"that. But also Ilyse makes me"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":107.85,"endTime":109.41,"body":"introduce you formally in the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":107.85,"endTime":109.41,"body":"next paragraph."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":109.56,"endTime":110.19,"body":"Okay, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":109.56,"endTime":110.19,"body":"fine."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":110.55,"endTime":111.87,"body":"But no I'll just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":110.55,"endTime":111.87,"body":"do it real quick and then we can"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":111.87,"endTime":114.93,"body":"get it over with. So,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":111.87,"endTime":114.93,"body":"introducing you formally, Dr."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":114.93,"endTime":117.69,"body":"Anthea Butler is Associate"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":114.93,"endTime":117.69,"body":"Professor of religious studies"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":117.69,"endTime":121.23,"body":"and Africana Studies at the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":117.69,"endTime":121.23,"body":"University of Pennsylvania. She"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":121.23,"endTime":124.44,"body":"is, I think prolific is maybe"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":121.23,"endTime":124.44,"body":"putting it mildly, but she is a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":124.44,"endTime":127.5,"body":"prolific public scholar who"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":124.44,"endTime":127.5,"body":"writes and appears regularly in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":127.5,"endTime":132.36,"body":"places like the BBC, MSNBC, CNN,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":127.5,"endTime":132.36,"body":"PBS, Washington Post, you-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":132.63,"endTime":133.14,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":133.27,"endTime":135.94,"body":"All of that. She"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":133.27,"endTime":135.94,"body":"is the president-elect of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":135.94,"endTime":138.37,"body":"American Society of Church"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":135.94,"endTime":138.37,"body":"History, which is really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":138.37,"endTime":141.79,"body":"exciting, I mean, for the church"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":138.37,"endTime":141.79,"body":"history folks, like, I'm so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":141.79,"endTime":145.15,"body":"excited to see how that sh- I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":141.79,"endTime":145.15,"body":"just excited about it. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":145.15,"endTime":148.9,"body":"anyway, recent winner of a LUCE"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":145.15,"endTime":148.9,"body":"grant for the Crossroads Project"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":148.9,"endTime":150.97,"body":"along with Drs. Judith"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":148.9,"endTime":150.97,"body":"Weisenfeld and Lerone Martin,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":151.3,"endTime":153.97,"body":"which is the creation of a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":151.3,"endTime":153.97,"body":"digital platform and scholarly"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":153.97,"endTime":156.22,"body":"hub for the study of black"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":153.97,"endTime":156.22,"body":"religious histories and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":156.22,"endTime":159.7,"body":"cultures. And the author of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":156.22,"endTime":159.7,"body":"frankly, just too many articles"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":159.7,"endTime":163.72,"body":"to name. But her newest book is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":159.7,"endTime":163.72,"body":"coming out just as this episode"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":163.72,"endTime":167.17,"body":"drops, it is entitled \"White"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":163.72,"endTime":167.17,"body":"Evangelical Racism,\" it's coming"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":167.17,"endTime":170.35,"body":"out through UNC press and it is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":167.17,"endTime":170.35,"body":"a must read."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":171.43,"endTime":173.89,"body":"We"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":171.43,"endTime":173.89,"body":"could easily chat with her about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":173.89,"endTime":177.43,"body":"anything, but this new book is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":173.89,"endTime":177.43,"body":"why we were dying to have her"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":177.46,"endTime":181.12,"body":"on. So without further"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":177.46,"endTime":181.12,"body":"formality, please give a loud"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":181.15,"endTime":185.74,"body":"round of applause (as you fold"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":181.15,"endTime":185.74,"body":"your laundry?) for Dr. Anthea"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":185.74,"endTime":189.07,"body":"Butler. Welcome to the pod"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":185.74,"endTime":189.07,"body":"officially, we're so glad you're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":189.07,"endTime":189.25,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":189.21,"endTime":191.34,"body":"I'm really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":189.21,"endTime":191.34,"body":"glad to be here, thanks. And you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":189.25,"endTime":189.79,"body":"Yay."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":191.34,"endTime":194.94,"body":"know, as my laundry sits on the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":191.34,"endTime":194.94,"body":"bed right now unfolded, you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":194.94,"endTime":198.75,"body":"know, if any of you would like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":194.94,"endTime":198.75,"body":"to come over and fold it, I woul"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":198.75,"endTime":198.81,"body":"b"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":201.69,"endTime":203.49,"body":"My"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":201.69,"endTime":203.49,"body":"office is actually shared with"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":203.49,"endTime":208.35,"body":"my laundry room, like, behind"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":203.49,"endTime":208.35,"body":"these doors is my laundry. So we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":208.35,"endTime":210.12,"body":"like to call this the most"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":208.35,"endTime":210.12,"body":"productive room in the house."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":210.12,"endTime":213.48,"body":"That's really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":210.12,"endTime":213.48,"body":"great. Probably is the cleanest"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":213.48,"endTime":214.47,"body":"room of the house too, right?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":215.43,"endTime":217.29,"body":"Ehh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":215.43,"endTime":217.29,"body":"depends on the day. I'm an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":217.29,"endTime":220.83,"body":"academic, there's books"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":217.29,"endTime":220.83,"body":"everywhere, but...just off"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":220.83,"endTime":221.13,"body":"camera."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":221.58,"endTime":223.44,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":221.58,"endTime":223.44,"body":"you know, that's how it goes."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":224.31,"endTime":226.32,"body":"Yeah. It's alright."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":229.35,"endTime":233.85,"body":"Let's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":229.35,"endTime":233.85,"body":"jump into the 101: ON TODAY, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":233.85,"endTime":235.77,"body":"segment where we do Professor"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":233.85,"endTime":235.77,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":236.83,"endTime":239.83,"body":"Okay, so Anthea, let's get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":236.83,"endTime":239.83,"body":"started. We are asking everyone"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":239.83,"endTime":245.35,"body":"on this season, what is- what is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":239.83,"endTime":245.35,"body":"their most basic, most important"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":245.35,"endTime":248.77,"body":"takeaway that you would want our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":245.35,"endTime":248.77,"body":"listeners to know about what you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":248.77,"endTime":251.29,"body":"do? Or in other words, what's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":248.77,"endTime":251.29,"body":"the 101?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":254.15,"endTime":256.31,"body":"The 101 is-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":254.15,"endTime":256.31,"body":"the first thing I think is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":256.31,"endTime":259.55,"body":"really important to say about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":256.31,"endTime":259.55,"body":"me, is that please don't call me"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":259.55,"endTime":263.21,"body":"a theologian. That really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":259.55,"endTime":263.21,"body":"affects me. I hate it. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":263.21,"endTime":266.99,"body":"historian. And I'm a historian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":263.21,"endTime":266.99,"body":"of African American and American"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":266.99,"endTime":271.46,"body":"religious history, the 101 is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":266.99,"endTime":271.46,"body":"that I like to use the history"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":271.46,"endTime":273.98,"body":"that I've learned about and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":271.46,"endTime":273.98,"body":"really appreciate, to think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":273.98,"endTime":278.33,"body":"about present day events. And so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":273.98,"endTime":278.33,"body":"my- I think my career,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":278.6,"endTime":281.9,"body":"especially in the last 12 years"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":278.6,"endTime":281.9,"body":"since I've been at Penn, has"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":281.9,"endTime":285.59,"body":"been about a merger of thinking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":281.9,"endTime":285.59,"body":"about 19th and 20th century"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":285.59,"endTime":289.55,"body":"history and the present, how are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":285.59,"endTime":289.55,"body":"these things working out in real"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":289.55,"endTime":293.69,"body":"time? And how do we engage the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":289.55,"endTime":293.69,"body":"public about them? And when I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":293.69,"endTime":297.14,"body":"say public, I don't mean just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":293.69,"endTime":297.14,"body":"our students, I mean, public,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":297.14,"endTime":300.71,"body":"public, public, like everybody."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":297.14,"endTime":300.71,"body":"And- and I've had a chance to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":300.71,"endTime":303.98,"body":"engage everybody, so I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":300.71,"endTime":303.98,"body":"that- that's what's important"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":303.98,"endTime":306.83,"body":"about me, is that I don't just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":303.98,"endTime":306.83,"body":"think about myself as being an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":306.83,"endTime":310.01,"body":"ivory tower. Although my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":306.83,"endTime":310.01,"body":"detractors like to say, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":310.01,"endTime":313.67,"body":"black Ivy League professor, as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":310.01,"endTime":313.67,"body":"though that is some kind of an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":313.7,"endTime":316.07,"body":"epithet. But yeah, there you go."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":316.61,"endTime":318.05,"body":"Can I ask a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":316.61,"endTime":318.05,"body":"follow up question? I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":318.05,"endTime":322.7,"body":"realizing- so I think all of us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":318.05,"endTime":322.7,"body":"who work on religion are used to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":322.7,"endTime":326.54,"body":"being, like assumed to be"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":322.7,"endTime":326.54,"body":"theologians, like on a plane,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":326.54,"endTime":328.43,"body":"people want to ask you like,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":326.54,"endTime":328.43,"body":"okay, what's your church? What-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":328.79,"endTime":333.26,"body":"But is that more prevalent if"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":328.79,"endTime":333.26,"body":"you work on African American"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":333.0,"endTime":334.89,"body":"Yes, yes,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":333.0,"endTime":334.89,"body":"yes. Because everybody has a-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":333.26,"endTime":333.65,"body":"religions?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":335.28,"endTime":337.53,"body":"has a sort of way in which they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":335.28,"endTime":337.53,"body":"look at you, they look at you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":337.53,"endTime":340.38,"body":"and think, oh, you must be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":337.53,"endTime":340.38,"body":"Baptist. So in my first book,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":340.41,"endTime":342.12,"body":"\"Women in the Church of God in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":340.41,"endTime":342.12,"body":"Christ,\" the first person who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":342.12,"endTime":345.27,"body":"ever wrote a review of the book"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":342.12,"endTime":345.27,"body":"said, \"she is a sympathetic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":345.27,"endTime":349.56,"body":"insider,\" and I'm like, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":345.27,"endTime":349.56,"body":"COGIC (Church of God in Christ)"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":349.56,"endTime":352.86,"body":"and I'm glad to have you fo"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":349.56,"endTime":352.86,"body":"led, because that means I wro"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":352.86,"endTime":355.32,"body":"e a really good book. And that I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":352.86,"endTime":355.32,"body":"could write that from the viewpo"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":355.32,"endTime":357.09,"body":"nt of sounding like I was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":355.32,"endTime":357.09,"body":"n the denomina"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":358.05,"endTime":361.08,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":358.05,"endTime":361.08,"body":"guess this is yet another space"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":361.08,"endTime":364.29,"body":"where just racism and white"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":361.08,"endTime":364.29,"body":"supremacy lurk in the Academy"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":364.29,"endTime":366.66,"body":"that I just haven't ever had to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":364.29,"endTime":366.66,"body":"think about, like, of course,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":366.69,"endTime":368.79,"body":"oh, if you're working about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":366.69,"endTime":368.79,"body":"black religion, of course, it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":368.79,"endTime":370.29,"body":"confessional. Of course, it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":368.79,"endTime":370.29,"body":"theology."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":370.5,"endTime":370.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":371.31,"endTime":372.42,"body":"Gross. Sorry."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":372.42,"endTime":375.48,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":372.42,"endTime":375.48,"body":"It's not, it's not."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":375.87,"endTime":376.71,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":376.66,"endTime":379.12,"body":"I- I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":376.66,"endTime":379.12,"body":"hadn't thought about that with"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":379.12,"endTime":384.73,"body":"your work, because I get the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":379.12,"endTime":384.73,"body":"opposite as a white woman who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":384.73,"endTime":389.65,"body":"does not have a Muslim-coded"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":384.73,"endTime":389.65,"body":"name. In Islamic Studies, folks"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":389.65,"endTime":392.89,"body":"assume that I'm the \"good\""},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":389.65,"endTime":392.89,"body":"Islamisist, because I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":392.95,"endTime":397.21,"body":"\"objective and an outsider\""},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":392.95,"endTime":397.21,"body":"whereas folks who are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":397.48,"endTime":401.83,"body":"racialized, usually, frankly,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":397.48,"endTime":401.83,"body":"like as brown and certainly"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":401.83,"endTime":405.1,"body":"Muslim women get this more than"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":401.83,"endTime":405.1,"body":"Muslim men, but they get the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":405.1,"endTime":407.47,"body":"like, \"oh, you're a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":405.1,"endTime":407.47,"body":"confessionalist, you are just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":407.47,"endTime":411.19,"body":"doing theology.\" Whereas I get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":407.47,"endTime":411.19,"body":"to do somehow, like \"pure\""},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":411.22,"endTime":414.82,"body":"Islamic Studies, which, our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":411.22,"endTime":414.82,"body":"listeners can't see my face, but"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":414.82,"endTime":417.4,"body":"there's eyeroll galore, because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":414.82,"endTime":417.4,"body":"that's nonsense."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":419.29,"endTime":421.45,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":419.29,"endTime":421.45,"body":"no, it's a- it's a thing, it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":421.45,"endTime":424.0,"body":"really is a thing. And I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":421.45,"endTime":424.0,"body":"it's something in our field"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":424.03,"endTime":427.18,"body":"that, you know, we don't often"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":424.03,"endTime":427.18,"body":"address very much, but those of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":427.18,"endTime":430.33,"body":"us who inhabit certain kinds of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":427.18,"endTime":430.33,"body":"bodies, and those bodies look a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":430.33,"endTime":432.13,"body":"certain way, have to deal with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":430.33,"endTime":432.13,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":432.31,"endTime":432.61,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":432.96,"endTime":436.41,"body":"Yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":432.96,"endTime":436.41,"body":"that's gross. We've already"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":436.41,"endTime":438.84,"body":"gotten a little bit of a sense"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":436.41,"endTime":438.84,"body":"of what's at stake in your"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":438.84,"endTime":442.53,"body":"project, but I love- I love the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":438.84,"endTime":442.53,"body":"\"public, public, public,\" place."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":442.53,"endTime":446.22,"body":"So can you help us understand"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":442.53,"endTime":446.22,"body":"what's at stake in thinking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":446.22,"endTime":449.82,"body":"critically about white"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":446.22,"endTime":449.82,"body":"evangelical racism? What is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":449.82,"endTime":452.43,"body":"important about the work that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":449.82,"endTime":452.43,"body":"you're doing, not just in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":452.43,"endTime":455.25,"body":"classrooms, but beyond, like,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":452.43,"endTime":455.25,"body":"what Ilyse likes to call"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":455.28,"endTime":457.38,"body":"\"egghead spaces\" and \"nerdy"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":455.28,"endTime":457.38,"body":"conferences\"?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":457.75,"endTime":460.6,"body":"I think for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":457.75,"endTime":460.6,"body":"\"White Evangelical Racism\"- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":460.6,"endTime":463.69,"body":"this is something that's already"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":460.6,"endTime":463.69,"body":"started, when I decided to write"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":463.69,"endTime":467.29,"body":"the book, it really came out of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":463.69,"endTime":467.29,"body":"previous research that I had"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":467.59,"endTime":470.2,"body":"done on Sarah Palin, a long time"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":467.59,"endTime":470.2,"body":"back, and- and that all went"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":470.2,"endTime":472.0,"body":"away, because she kind of went"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":470.2,"endTime":472.0,"body":"south, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":472.0,"endTime":472.54,"body":"Thank goodness."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":472.54,"endTime":474.4,"body":"But I went to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":472.54,"endTime":474.4,"body":"an evangelical seminary, I went"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":474.4,"endTime":476.59,"body":"to Fuller [Theological"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":474.4,"endTime":476.59,"body":"Seminary]. And, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":476.59,"endTime":479.05,"body":"for a time was evangelical, as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":476.59,"endTime":479.05,"body":"you will see in the book, if you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":479.05,"endTime":482.89,"body":"read, you know, that part. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":479.05,"endTime":482.89,"body":"one of the things that I thought"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":482.89,"endTime":485.98,"body":"was that it was really important"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":482.89,"endTime":485.98,"body":"for people to understand this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":485.98,"endTime":488.89,"body":"history of racism. And this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":485.98,"endTime":488.89,"body":"history of racism, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":488.89,"endTime":491.77,"body":"evangelicals don't like to talk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":488.89,"endTime":491.77,"body":"about at all, because they like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":491.77,"endTime":494.47,"body":"to think of themselves as great"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":491.77,"endTime":494.47,"body":"abolitionists and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":494.47,"endTime":497.41,"body":"great cultural leaders. And,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":494.47,"endTime":497.41,"body":"\"oh, you know, we've repented of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":497.41,"endTime":500.38,"body":"our racism, because we had"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":497.41,"endTime":500.38,"body":"events!\" and I'm like, \"events"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":500.38,"endTime":504.25,"body":"ain't enough, alright?\" And- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":500.38,"endTime":504.25,"body":"so, you know, we tend to sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":504.25,"endTime":507.85,"body":"think now that because of Trump,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":504.25,"endTime":507.85,"body":"that, you know, \"oh, evangelical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":507.85,"endTime":511.42,"body":"somehow just became racist.\" No."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":507.85,"endTime":511.42,"body":"They've been racist. They've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":511.42,"endTime":514.15,"body":"been racist for a long time. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":511.42,"endTime":514.15,"body":"that's gonna hurt a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":514.21,"endTime":517.15,"body":"evangelicals to hear that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":514.21,"endTime":517.15,"body":"message, you know, but I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":517.15,"endTime":520.96,"body":"it's a really important one. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":517.15,"endTime":520.96,"body":"I can think about, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":520.96,"endTime":525.31,"body":"book as being a part of the sort"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":520.96,"endTime":525.31,"body":"of a new trajectory, and the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":525.31,"endTime":528.52,"body":"study of American religion and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":525.31,"endTime":528.52,"body":"evangelicalism, and if people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":528.52,"endTime":532.93,"body":"like Kristin Kobes Du Mez, and,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":528.52,"endTime":532.93,"body":"you know, others like Andrew"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":532.93,"endTime":536.23,"body":"Whitehead, and there's just a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":532.93,"endTime":536.23,"body":"whole slew of books right now,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":536.38,"endTime":538.51,"body":"that are kind of trying to deal"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":536.38,"endTime":538.51,"body":"with this in certain ways. But I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":538.51,"endTime":542.74,"body":"think where mine is different,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":538.51,"endTime":542.74,"body":"is that it's always been white"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":542.74,"endTime":546.76,"body":"people talking about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":542.74,"endTime":546.76,"body":"evangelicalism, and nobody Black"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":546.76,"endTime":548.98,"body":"has ever written about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":546.76,"endTime":548.98,"body":"evangelicalism. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":548.98,"endTime":552.07,"body":"one of the surprising things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":548.98,"endTime":552.07,"body":"about my career personally, is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":552.07,"endTime":555.01,"body":"that people don't expect me to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":552.07,"endTime":555.01,"body":"be that person talking about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":555.01,"endTime":558.79,"body":"evangelicalism and knowing that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":555.01,"endTime":558.79,"body":"evangelical history and I know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":558.79,"endTime":563.38,"body":"it pretty well, so yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":558.79,"endTime":563.38,"body":"it this is an important piece of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":563.38,"endTime":566.56,"body":"this and what was the broader"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":563.38,"endTime":566.56,"body":"question about the field or- I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":566.56,"endTime":567.73,"body":"want to make sure I got that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":566.56,"endTime":567.73,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":567.9,"endTime":570.21,"body":"No, I think you-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":567.9,"endTime":570.21,"body":"I think you hit it on the head"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":570.21,"endTime":573.0,"body":"but I- we spend a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":570.21,"endTime":573.0,"body":"with folks who talk about why"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":573.0,"endTime":575.82,"body":"their research is important in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":573.0,"endTime":575.82,"body":"the Academy and it's great to be"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":575.82,"endTime":578.13,"body":"able to say like \"I'm the first"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":575.82,"endTime":578.13,"body":"person that has done this work\""},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":578.13,"endTime":580.26,"body":"although that- I should not be"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":578.13,"endTime":580.26,"body":"shocked by that, but..."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":580.63,"endTime":583.93,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":580.63,"endTime":583.93,"body":"I think people, you know, I want"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":583.93,"endTime":587.29,"body":"to mention Robert Jones here"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":583.93,"endTime":587.29,"body":"because he's writing about it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":587.29,"endTime":590.44,"body":"from his own personal, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":587.29,"endTime":590.44,"body":"relationship with it, he'd grown"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":590.44,"endTime":593.2,"body":"up Southern Baptist, and doing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":590.44,"endTime":593.2,"body":"it. I think what's different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":593.2,"endTime":595.57,"body":"about me is hearing from"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":593.2,"endTime":595.57,"body":"somebody else. And I mean Jemar"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":595.57,"endTime":598.45,"body":"Tisby has written this again,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":595.57,"endTime":598.45,"body":"he's still working on his PhD"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":598.45,"endTime":601.75,"body":"which is really great, but I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":598.45,"endTime":601.75,"body":"think what we have to do now is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":601.75,"endTime":605.05,"body":"sort of hit this in a different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":601.75,"endTime":605.05,"body":"way. And I think, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":605.05,"endTime":608.05,"body":"to say, how this is more broadly"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":605.05,"endTime":608.05,"body":"important, not just for the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":608.05,"endTime":611.08,"body":"Academy, but I think the general"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":608.05,"endTime":611.08,"body":"reader will want to read this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":611.08,"endTime":614.23,"body":"book. It's because it has a lot"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":611.08,"endTime":614.23,"body":"to do with the political. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":614.23,"endTime":616.75,"body":"for, you know, for people who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":614.23,"endTime":616.75,"body":"are just thinking, this is a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":616.75,"endTime":619.48,"body":"book about religion. It really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":616.75,"endTime":619.48,"body":"isn't. It's a book about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":619.48,"endTime":623.65,"body":"religion and politics, and how"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":619.48,"endTime":623.65,"body":"these moral issues work together"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":623.83,"endTime":626.77,"body":"with political leanings to turn"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":623.83,"endTime":626.77,"body":"into something else."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":627.02,"endTime":629.81,"body":"Yeah, we spend a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":627.02,"endTime":629.81,"body":"lot of time yelling on the pod"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":629.81,"endTime":634.34,"body":"about how religion and politics"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":629.81,"endTime":634.34,"body":"in the US specifically are not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":634.34,"endTime":635.63,"body":"actually separate at all."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":635.66,"endTime":635.99,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":636.83,"endTime":638.75,"body":"So this sounds"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":636.83,"endTime":638.75,"body":"like a great resource for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":638.75,"endTime":643.19,"body":"anybody who maybe was surprised"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":638.75,"endTime":643.19,"body":"to see quite so many crosses and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":643.19,"endTime":646.31,"body":"Christian paraphernalia show up,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":643.19,"endTime":646.31,"body":"I don't know, at the Capitol on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":646.31,"endTime":649.31,"body":"the sixth of January this year."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":646.31,"endTime":649.31,"body":"Ugh."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":649.31,"endTime":652.07,"body":"Alongside"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":649.31,"endTime":652.07,"body":"that, you know, that scaffolding"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":652.07,"endTime":654.59,"body":"and the, you know, the hangman's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":652.07,"endTime":654.59,"body":"noose and everything else it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":654.59,"endTime":654.86,"body":"had."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":654.86,"endTime":656.03,"body":"Ugh, yes, ma'am."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":656.0,"endTime":658.73,"body":"Because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":656.0,"endTime":658.73,"body":"this is a 101 moment, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":658.73,"endTime":661.88,"body":"wondering, Anthea, if you could"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":658.73,"endTime":661.88,"body":"tell us a little bit more about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":662.6,"endTime":666.17,"body":"why evangelicalism? Is there"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":662.6,"endTime":666.17,"body":"something unique about this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":666.17,"endTime":671.3,"body":"particular sort of Christianity?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":666.17,"endTime":671.3,"body":"Is this just about the US? Give"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":671.3,"endTime":675.71,"body":"us a little bit more on why this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":671.3,"endTime":675.71,"body":"particular group or set of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":675.71,"endTime":679.31,"body":"groups, how would you- how would"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":675.71,"endTime":679.31,"body":"you explain on in that 101 way?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":679.54,"endTime":681.43,"body":"The message"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":679.54,"endTime":681.43,"body":"should go out and preach the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":681.43,"endTime":684.79,"body":"gospel except it got distorted."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":681.43,"endTime":684.79,"body":"And I think that's the most"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":684.79,"endTime":687.76,"body":"basic way to say it, if you use"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":684.79,"endTime":687.76,"body":"the word, \"evangelikos,\" you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":687.76,"endTime":691.0,"body":"know, in Greek, it means, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":687.76,"endTime":691.0,"body":"know, \"to go out, to- to- to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":691.0,"endTime":692.77,"body":"spread\" to do all that stuff,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":691.0,"endTime":692.77,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":692.81,"endTime":694.88,"body":"See? See? I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":692.81,"endTime":694.88,"body":"quoted the Scripture, I told"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":694.88,"endTime":695.09,"body":"you!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":695.0,"endTime":697.64,"body":"Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":695.0,"endTime":697.64,"body":"quoted scripture. And- but in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":695.0,"endTime":892.7,"body":"Yeah. Well, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":695.0,"endTime":892.7,"body":"that actually leads beautifully"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":697.64,"endTime":699.8,"body":"the 19th century, that means"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":697.64,"endTime":699.8,"body":"different things for different"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":699.8,"endTime":703.07,"body":"people. Some people mean- that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":699.8,"endTime":703.07,"body":"means evangelizing in your local"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":703.07,"endTime":705.8,"body":"neighborhood, or whatever, some"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":703.07,"endTime":705.8,"body":"people had the missionary"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":705.8,"endTime":708.41,"body":"impulse, which goes along with"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":705.8,"endTime":708.41,"body":"the civilizing impulse of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":708.41,"endTime":711.83,"body":"late 19th century. And then in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":708.41,"endTime":711.83,"body":"the 20th century, when we think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":711.83,"endTime":715.22,"body":"about a figure like Billy"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":711.83,"endTime":715.22,"body":"Graham, that is not just about,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":715.22,"endTime":718.28,"body":"you know, evangelizing, but also"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":715.22,"endTime":718.28,"body":"evangelizing to a certain kind"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":718.28,"endTime":721.52,"body":"of political and social"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":718.28,"endTime":721.52,"body":"perspective too. And so while,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":721.55,"endTime":723.65,"body":"you know, we talked about Billy"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":721.55,"endTime":723.65,"body":"Graham as an evangelist, and I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":723.65,"endTime":725.84,"body":"use him for an example, because"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":723.65,"endTime":725.84,"body":"everybody knows him, he's a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":725.93,"endTime":729.02,"body":"really good example. I think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":725.93,"endTime":729.02,"body":"that, you know, you just don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":729.02,"endTime":731.3,"body":"think about- you might think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":729.02,"endTime":731.3,"body":"about him as being this great"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":731.3,"endTime":734.57,"body":"evangelist who died, but he also"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":731.3,"endTime":734.57,"body":"was the friend to presidents,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":734.57,"endTime":737.69,"body":"and also, you know, spoke out a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":734.57,"endTime":737.69,"body":"lot against communism and all of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":737.69,"endTime":740.57,"body":"that. Why is this important?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":737.69,"endTime":740.57,"body":"Well, it's important for a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":740.57,"endTime":744.77,"body":"couple of reasons. One is that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":740.57,"endTime":744.77,"body":"evangelicalism is big around the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":744.77,"endTime":748.22,"body":"world, it is an expansive"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":744.77,"endTime":748.22,"body":"movement. When I talk about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":748.22,"endTime":751.19,"body":"evangelicals, I'm not just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":748.22,"endTime":751.19,"body":"talking about, you know, those"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":751.19,"endTime":754.4,"body":"mainline folks in Grand Rapids,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":751.19,"endTime":754.4,"body":"Michigan, who go to Calvin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":754.4,"endTime":756.86,"body":"College, and, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":754.4,"endTime":756.86,"body":"Senator Dorton and all tha"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":756.86,"endTime":760.46,"body":"stuff. I'm talking abou"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":756.86,"endTime":760.46,"body":"Pentecostals, too, who are lik"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":760.46,"endTime":763.19,"body":"Church of God in Christ an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":760.46,"endTime":763.19,"body":"other big churches, you know"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":763.19,"endTime":766.4,"body":"that are around. I'm talkin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":763.19,"endTime":766.4,"body":"about people who might be an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":766.4,"endTime":769.25,"body":"non- denominon"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":766.4,"endTime":769.25,"body":"nondenominational churches, wh"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":769.25,"endTime":771.83,"body":"are, you know, puttin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":769.25,"endTime":771.83,"body":"themselves in this space o"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":771.86,"endTime":774.77,"body":"\"we're Bible believing\" and al"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":771.86,"endTime":774.77,"body":"of that. I'm thinking abou"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":774.77,"endTime":777.98,"body":"Southern Baptists. I'm thinkin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":774.77,"endTime":777.98,"body":"about Church of God in Christ"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":777.98,"endTime":780.77,"body":"I'm thinking about people lik"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":777.98,"endTime":780.77,"body":"TD Jakes, I'm thinking abou"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":780.77,"endTime":784.67,"body":"people like, Paula White, yo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":780.77,"endTime":784.67,"body":"know, I mean, need I say more"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":784.82,"endTime":787.37,"body":"Now, let's talk about this on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":784.82,"endTime":787.37,"body":"global level. On a global level"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":787.37,"endTime":790.22,"body":"this is really important"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":787.37,"endTime":790.22,"body":"because- I'm going to pose it i"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":790.22,"endTime":793.13,"body":"a different way for you in th"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":790.22,"endTime":793.13,"body":"way that I like to talk abou"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":793.13,"endTime":796.52,"body":"it, which is, the contes"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":793.13,"endTime":796.52,"body":"between Catholicism an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":796.52,"endTime":800.24,"body":"Protestantism in certain place"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":796.52,"endTime":800.24,"body":"like Latin America, Centra"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":800.24,"endTime":803.12,"body":"America, and others where, yo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":800.24,"endTime":803.12,"body":"know, people have gone to b"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":803.15,"endTime":806.42,"body":"evangelicals because they go"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":803.15,"endTime":806.42,"body":"introduced to the prosperit"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":806.42,"endTime":810.89,"body":"gospel, being in places lik"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":806.42,"endTime":810.89,"body":"Brazil or others, or in Nigeria"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":810.92,"endTime":815.18,"body":"or in Ghana, or in all thes"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":810.92,"endTime":815.18,"body":"other places, right? And so whe"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":815.18,"endTime":818.78,"body":"you think about evangelicalis"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":815.18,"endTime":818.78,"body":"there, it has a predominantl"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":818.78,"endTime":822.29,"body":"kind o"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":818.78,"endTime":822.29,"body":"Pentecostal/prosperity/charismati"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":822.29,"endTime":825.65,"body":"slant to it. And I think tha"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":822.29,"endTime":825.65,"body":"that's really important to cal"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":825.65,"endTime":829.1,"body":"that evangelical, too, becaus"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":825.65,"endTime":829.1,"body":"those diff- definitions ar"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":829.1,"endTime":832.28,"body":"different. If we want to mov"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":829.1,"endTime":832.28,"body":"into the Asian complex, yo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":832.28,"endTime":835.19,"body":"know, in terms of the Pacifi"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":832.28,"endTime":835.19,"body":"Rim and all that, then we hav"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":835.19,"endTime":838.67,"body":"to start thinking about, yo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":835.19,"endTime":838.67,"body":"know, things like what used t"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":838.67,"endTime":840.41,"body":"be Paul Yungi Cho [now Davi"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":838.67,"endTime":840.41,"body":"Yonggi Cho] (but he changed hi"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":840.41,"endTime":842.09,"body":"name, and I always forget it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":840.41,"endTime":842.09,"body":"because I always think about hi"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":842.09,"endTime":845.27,"body":"as his old name) in Korea an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":842.09,"endTime":845.27,"body":"all these bigger, you know"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":845.27,"endTime":848.24,"body":"Pentecostal churches of Korea."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":845.27,"endTime":848.24,"body":"also think about Korea"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":848.24,"endTime":853.01,"body":"Presbyterians and Methodist"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":848.24,"endTime":853.01,"body":"like that, too, going down al"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":853.01,"endTime":855.17,"body":"the way to Australia, Ne"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":853.01,"endTime":855.17,"body":"Zealand to think about, yo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":855.17,"endTime":858.59,"body":"know, Hillsong. Hillsong is a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":855.17,"endTime":858.59,"body":"evangelical Church, Hillsong i"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":858.59,"endTime":861.71,"body":"all about evangelicalism and yo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":858.59,"endTime":861.71,"body":"know, whether or not they'r"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":861.71,"endTime":865.76,"body":"trying to, you know, bring in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":861.71,"endTime":865.76,"body":"Justin Bieber or someone else"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":865.94,"endTime":868.31,"body":"you know, their brand o"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":865.94,"endTime":868.31,"body":"evangelicalism is a littl"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":868.31,"endTime":870.59,"body":"different because they're doin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":868.31,"endTime":870.59,"body":"something different and it'"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":870.59,"endTime":874.1,"body":"predominantly about music an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":870.59,"endTime":874.1,"body":"culture and, and all those kind"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":874.1,"endTime":877.13,"body":"of things in the church. S"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":874.1,"endTime":877.13,"body":"evangelicalism is somethin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":877.13,"endTime":880.52,"body":"that's worldwide. The way tha"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":877.13,"endTime":880.52,"body":"it plays out in America, though"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":880.82,"endTime":884.3,"body":"is very different. I won't even"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":880.82,"endTime":884.3,"body":"say very different. I'm just g"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":884.3,"endTime":887.33,"body":"ing to say that it has certain"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":884.3,"endTime":887.33,"body":"ind of contours in the Amer"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":887.33,"endTime":890.0,"body":"can context that it might not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":887.33,"endTime":890.0,"body":"ave in other conte"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":892.7,"endTime":895.58,"body":"into the follow up question that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":892.7,"endTime":895.58,"body":"we had, which was, if we're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":895.58,"endTime":901.79,"body":"thinking about white evangelical"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":895.58,"endTime":901.79,"body":"racism, What- what is especially"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":901.79,"endTime":905.21,"body":"or uniquely American about the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":901.79,"endTime":905.21,"body":"racism part? Do we see that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":905.21,"endTime":908.09,"body":"white evangelical racism play"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":905.21,"endTime":908.09,"body":"out globally as well? How are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":908.09,"endTime":909.56,"body":"they the same? How are they"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":908.09,"endTime":909.56,"body":"different?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":909.66,"endTime":911.73,"body":"Okay, so I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":909.66,"endTime":911.73,"body":"think what's uniquely American"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":911.73,"endTime":914.64,"body":"about is that it comes out of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":911.73,"endTime":914.64,"body":"this, you know, history of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":914.64,"endTime":918.18,"body":"slavery in this country, and the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":914.64,"endTime":918.18,"body":"connections between Christians"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":918.18,"endTime":920.37,"body":"and slavery. If I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":918.18,"endTime":920.37,"body":"about, I'm forgetting the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":920.37,"endTime":922.74,"body":"author's name right now, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":920.37,"endTime":922.74,"body":"book \"Christian Slavery [by"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":922.74,"endTime":923.19,"body":"Katharine Gerbner], and-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":923.19,"endTime":923.7,"body":"By Gerbner?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":924.21,"endTime":926.04,"body":"Gerbner-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":924.21,"endTime":926.04,"body":"yeah, I think, I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":926.04,"endTime":928.53,"body":"uh, hopefully, you'll have it up"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":926.04,"endTime":928.53,"body":"on the- on the podcast-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":928.53,"endTime":929.13,"body":"Yes ma'am."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":929.0,"endTime":931.4,"body":"I just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":929.0,"endTime":931.4,"body":"forget, I forget her... But, um,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":931.79,"endTime":934.4,"body":"yeah, it's a really good book to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":931.79,"endTime":934.4,"body":"think about the beginnings of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":934.4,"endTime":937.04,"body":"all of that, right? And how do-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":934.4,"endTime":937.04,"body":"you know, how do enslaved"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":937.04,"endTime":940.52,"body":"Africans become Christians? And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":937.04,"endTime":940.52,"body":"how is that imposed upon people,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":940.52,"endTime":942.8,"body":"right? So I think what's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":940.52,"endTime":942.8,"body":"different in the American"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":942.8,"endTime":946.76,"body":"context is slavery. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":942.8,"endTime":946.76,"body":"outgrowth of all of that in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":946.76,"endTime":950.6,"body":"terms of how we think about it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":946.76,"endTime":950.6,"body":"In a global context, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":950.6,"endTime":953.3,"body":"it's really connected to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":950.6,"endTime":953.3,"body":"missions. And I- and I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":953.3,"endTime":955.49,"body":"about a book like Melani"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":953.3,"endTime":955.49,"body":"McAlister's book about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":955.49,"endTime":959.81,"body":"issions, and, you know, sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":955.49,"endTime":959.81,"body":"950s and 60s. But, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":959.81,"endTime":962.39,"body":"here's another part of that-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":959.81,"endTime":962.39,"body":"nd to think about the ways in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":962.39,"endTime":965.42,"body":"hich religion and media have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":962.39,"endTime":965.42,"body":"layed a big role in the spread"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":964.25,"endTime":986.51,"body":"Big business,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":964.25,"endTime":986.51,"body":"super big business."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":965.42,"endTime":969.62,"body":"f evangelical- American style"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":965.42,"endTime":969.62,"body":"f evangelicalism- around the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":969.62,"endTime":972.62,"body":"orld with televangelists, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":969.62,"endTime":972.62,"body":"eople like that. And I think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":972.62,"endTime":976.04,"body":"hat's been sort of really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":972.62,"endTime":976.04,"body":"verlooked in our field, about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":976.04,"endTime":979.43,"body":"ow people think about that, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":976.04,"endTime":979.43,"body":"hat the roles are. So, you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":979.43,"endTime":982.67,"body":"now, where I will talk about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":979.43,"endTime":982.67,"body":"illy Graham, this will make my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":982.67,"endTime":986.12,"body":"rad student very happy, but I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":982.67,"endTime":986.12,"body":"hink Billy Graham is important,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":986.15,"endTime":990.08,"body":"ut I think Oral Roberts is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":986.15,"endTime":990.08,"body":"qually important. I think, you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":990.08,"endTime":994.25,"body":"now, somebody like Reverend Ike"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":990.08,"endTime":994.25,"body":"s really important. I think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":994.28,"endTime":998.12,"body":"hat these figures are people"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":994.28,"endTime":998.12,"body":"ho have given us a certain kind"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":994.28,"endTime":1030.88,"body":"That is a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":994.28,"endTime":1030.88,"body":"super big business, and it is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":998.12,"endTime":1001.45,"body":"f thing, right, you know? In"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":998.12,"endTime":1001.45,"body":"erms of evangelicalism, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1001.45,"endTime":1005.02,"body":"as become really important. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1001.45,"endTime":1005.02,"body":"robably a very big figure, in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1005.02,"endTime":1008.83,"body":"erms of thinking about what the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1005.02,"endTime":1008.83,"body":"orld is like of evangelicalism,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1009.25,"endTime":1012.25,"body":"s honestly- it's somebody, a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1009.25,"endTime":1012.25,"body":"ame that you probably don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1012.25,"endTime":1016.09,"body":"ear on here very much, is C."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1012.25,"endTime":1016.09,"body":"eter Wagner, and somebody that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1016.09,"endTime":1019.6,"body":"became acquainted with when I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1016.09,"endTime":1019.6,"body":"as at Fuller Seminary in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1019.6,"endTime":1022.96,"body":"asadena, who really came up"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1019.6,"endTime":1022.96,"body":"ith this whole idea about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1022.96,"endTime":1026.41,"body":"ominionism, and spiritual"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1022.96,"endTime":1026.41,"body":"arfare, and all of these things."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1026.74,"endTime":1030.88,"body":"And that's-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1030.91,"endTime":1034.93,"body":"also a lot of the foundational"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1030.91,"endTime":1034.93,"body":"stuff that we see whether that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1034.93,"endTime":1038.68,"body":"was at the Capitol at the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1034.93,"endTime":1038.68,"body":"insurrection, or the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1038.68,"endTime":1042.19,"body":"ways in which Donald Trump built"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1038.68,"endTime":1042.19,"body":"a following. And people say"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1042.19,"endTime":1044.68,"body":"evangelicalism, but I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1042.19,"endTime":1044.68,"body":"but he had a certain kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1044.68,"endTime":1047.89,"body":"evangelicalism. And you need to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1044.68,"endTime":1047.89,"body":"understand it, and the rest of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1047.89,"endTime":1050.71,"body":"them just kind of got drugged in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1047.89,"endTime":1050.71,"body":"and I think, what evangelicals"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1050.71,"endTime":1053.14,"body":"in America don't realize is that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1050.71,"endTime":1053.14,"body":"I'm like, I'm sorry, but the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1053.14,"endTime":1056.17,"body":"people you thought that were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1053.14,"endTime":1056.17,"body":"like, the unwashed, are now the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1056.17,"endTime":1060.22,"body":"people who are running"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1056.17,"endTime":1060.22,"body":"evangelicalism. And you may- you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1060.22,"endTime":1062.17,"body":"probably have an aesthetic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1060.22,"endTime":1062.17,"body":"problem with that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1064.48,"endTime":1067.93,"body":"Yeah, it's such a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1064.48,"endTime":1067.93,"body":"weird political moment for so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1067.93,"endTime":1072.97,"body":"many reasons. But watching, you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1067.93,"endTime":1072.97,"body":"know, charismatic preachers on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1072.97,"endTime":1077.86,"body":"national TV call on African"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1072.97,"endTime":1077.86,"body":"angels to involve themselves in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1077.86,"endTime":1081.49,"body":"American elections. It's just-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1077.86,"endTime":1081.49,"body":"well, and I think one of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1081.49,"endTime":1086.41,"body":"things that we've seen really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1081.49,"endTime":1086.41,"body":"come home is folks treat the, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1086.41,"endTime":1088.69,"body":"think your phrase was \"the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1086.41,"endTime":1088.69,"body":"unwashed,\" as though they're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1088.69,"endTime":1094.93,"body":"unusual or marginal, or just not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1088.69,"endTime":1094.93,"body":"that common and they've really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1094.93,"endTime":1099.22,"body":"been brought center in the last"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1094.93,"endTime":1099.22,"body":"three or four years. I mean-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1099.28,"endTime":1101.2,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1099.28,"endTime":1101.2,"body":"and they fit really well in with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1101.2,"endTime":1104.83,"body":"the QAnon stuff and everything"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1101.2,"endTime":1104.83,"body":"else. And it's all about, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1104.83,"endTime":1107.68,"body":"know, there's these prophecies,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1104.83,"endTime":1107.68,"body":"I mean, you know, we're taping"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1107.68,"endTime":1110.5,"body":"this at the end of February, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1107.68,"endTime":1110.5,"body":"the beginning of March is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1110.5,"endTime":1112.99,"body":"supposed to be like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1110.5,"endTime":1112.99,"body":"this is the day that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1112.99,"endTime":1115.27,"body":"Donald Trump is going to come"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1112.99,"endTime":1115.27,"body":"back and take over and he'll be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1115.27,"endTime":1118.39,"body":"reestablished as president and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1115.27,"endTime":1118.39,"body":"all this. And there's a sense of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1118.39,"endTime":1122.08,"body":"which this prophetic kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1118.39,"endTime":1122.08,"body":"thing that happens for these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1122.11,"endTime":1124.45,"body":"types of evangelicals who are in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1122.11,"endTime":1124.45,"body":"the Pentecostal movement and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1124.45,"endTime":1127.45,"body":"everything, it really fits in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1124.45,"endTime":1127.45,"body":"well with Q, I mean, I hate to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1127.45,"endTime":1131.02,"body":"say it, but it does. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1127.45,"endTime":1131.02,"body":"so people can, you know, hook on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1131.02,"endTime":1133.78,"body":"to that and say, it's part of my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1131.02,"endTime":1133.78,"body":"faith. I don't have to worry"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1133.78,"endTime":1138.13,"body":"about it. You know? And yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1133.78,"endTime":1138.13,"body":"has- it has ramifications."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1138.43,"endTime":1141.55,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1138.43,"endTime":1141.55,"body":"and also just fits into this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1141.55,"endTime":1144.37,"body":"persecution narrative that we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1141.55,"endTime":1144.37,"body":"keep seeing emerge too, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1144.37,"endTime":1147.73,"body":"That bizarre moment of, we're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1144.37,"endTime":1147.73,"body":"electing the second-ever"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1147.73,"endTime":1150.79,"body":"Catholic president, but we're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1147.73,"endTime":1150.79,"body":"talking- and we're establishing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1150.79,"endTime":1153.91,"body":"a Catholic super majority on the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1150.79,"endTime":1153.91,"body":"Supreme Court. But we keep"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1153.91,"endTime":1157.0,"body":"talking about how anti-Catholic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1153.91,"endTime":1157.0,"body":"the US is, because nobody was"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1157.0,"endTime":1159.16,"body":"supporting Amy Coney Barrett in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1157.0,"endTime":1159.16,"body":"the way that we should be..."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1159.19,"endTime":1161.53,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1159.19,"endTime":1161.53,"body":"And the bishops are like, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1161.53,"endTime":1163.57,"body":"know, this is where I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1161.53,"endTime":1163.57,"body":"just take my time out for a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1163.57,"endTime":1166.3,"body":"minute and just say, the US"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1163.57,"endTime":1166.3,"body":"Conference of Catholic Bishops,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1166.3,"endTime":1168.7,"body":"for the most part, is just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1166.3,"endTime":1168.7,"body":"absolutely horrendous."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1168.76,"endTime":1169.3,"body":"YES!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1169.3,"endTime":1171.13,"body":"And their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1169.3,"endTime":1171.13,"body":"political- their political"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1171.13,"endTime":1172.66,"body":"activity has been horrendous."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1172.66,"endTime":1173.08,"body":"YES!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1173.08,"endTime":1175.27,"body":"And you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1173.08,"endTime":1175.27,"body":"not all of them. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1175.27,"endTime":1178.81,"body":"I- I just think that they need"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1175.27,"endTime":1178.81,"body":"to shut up right now. I really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1179.41,"endTime":1179.47,"body":"do-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1179.47,"endTime":1179.68,"body":"YES!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1179.89,"endTime":1181.18,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1179.89,"endTime":1181.18,"body":"this whole thing about what \"we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1181.18,"endTime":1183.49,"body":"don't know if we're gonna give"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1181.18,"endTime":1183.49,"body":"him communion or not, and we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1183.49,"endTime":1185.44,"body":"don't know this, we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1183.49,"endTime":1185.44,"body":"we're gonna issue out the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1185.44,"endTime":1187.84,"body":"statement-\" I'm just like, Are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1185.44,"endTime":1187.84,"body":"you stupid? You know, there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1187.84,"endTime":1192.46,"body":"Jesuits in DC and Georgetown who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1187.84,"endTime":1192.46,"body":"will give him communion- Biden"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1192.46,"endTime":1195.7,"body":"communion whenever he wants. It"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1192.46,"endTime":1195.7,"body":"doesn't matter what you say. It"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1195.7,"endTime":1198.43,"body":"doesn't matter what you do. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1195.7,"endTime":1198.43,"body":"what, you know, and all of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1198.43,"endTime":1201.64,"body":"stuff that happened in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1198.43,"endTime":1201.64,"body":"election, you know, I just need"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1201.64,"endTime":1205.33,"body":"to say this out loud- say very"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1201.64,"endTime":1205.33,"body":"clearly, I think that Catholics-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1205.69,"endTime":1208.33,"body":"many American Catholic Bishops"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1205.69,"endTime":1208.33,"body":"have become evangelicalism"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1208.33,"endTime":1213.16,"body":"themselves. And so they have a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1208.33,"endTime":1213.16,"body":"huge problem because they're not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1213.16,"endTime":1216.1,"body":"really Catholic anymore. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1213.16,"endTime":1216.1,"body":"they need to think about that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1216.1,"endTime":1219.46,"body":"because their political activity"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1216.1,"endTime":1219.46,"body":"has made them siding with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1219.49,"endTime":1222.19,"body":"evangelicals, because ostensibly"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1219.49,"endTime":1222.19,"body":"it's supposed to be about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1222.19,"endTime":1224.47,"body":"abortion, but it's really not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1222.19,"endTime":1224.47,"body":"about abortion. It's about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1224.47,"endTime":1224.92,"body":"power."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1225.13,"endTime":1225.73,"body":"Yes, ma'am."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1225.76,"endTime":1226.09,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1226.12,"endTime":1227.92,"body":"Sorry. I'm so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1226.12,"endTime":1227.92,"body":"excited right now, I have a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1227.92,"endTime":1230.32,"body":"whole chapter in my book about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1227.92,"endTime":1230.32,"body":"Catholic and evangelical"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1230.35,"endTime":1232.93,"body":"cobelligerents. And that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1230.35,"endTime":1232.93,"body":"blurring of the line between"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1233.2,"endTime":1236.41,"body":"Catholics and evangelicals since"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1233.2,"endTime":1236.41,"body":"the 70s, and up through today"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1236.44,"endTime":1239.95,"body":"has been just fascinating, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1236.44,"endTime":1239.95,"body":"also really terrible and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1239.95,"endTime":1242.38,"body":"horrible. And also, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1239.95,"endTime":1242.38,"body":"we maybe need a T shirt that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1242.38,"endTime":1246.91,"body":"says, \"Dr. Baddest Bitch in the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1242.38,"endTime":1246.91,"body":"game to US Conference of"},{"speaker":"Catholic Bishops","startTime":1246.91,"endTime":1249.25,"body":"shut up.\""},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1249.37,"endTime":1250.81,"body":"They're not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1249.37,"endTime":1250.81,"body":"gonna answer- they're not gonna"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1250.81,"endTime":1252.61,"body":"answer me anyways so it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1250.81,"endTime":1252.61,"body":"matter."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1253.15,"endTime":1254.32,"body":"I'm just making"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1253.15,"endTime":1254.32,"body":"t-shirts!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1254.38,"endTime":1256.51,"body":"I just- I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1254.38,"endTime":1256.51,"body":"just want them to just- like, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1256.51,"endTime":1258.97,"body":"really want them to think about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1256.51,"endTime":1258.97,"body":"the damage that they're doing,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1258.97,"endTime":1261.79,"body":"and what- you know, and how they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1258.97,"endTime":1261.79,"body":"need to think about the things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1261.79,"endTime":1265.0,"body":"that they say, are really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1261.79,"endTime":1265.0,"body":"pulling their people into a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1265.0,"endTime":1268.72,"body":"space in which they're not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1265.0,"endTime":1268.72,"body":"getti- they don't know what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1268.72,"endTime":1272.05,"body":"Catholic doctrine is because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1268.72,"endTime":1272.05,"body":"their bishops don't know it. You"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1272.05,"endTime":1274.51,"body":"know, that I never thought I'd"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1272.05,"endTime":1274.51,"body":"be a doctrinal, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1274.51,"endTime":1276.94,"body":"supporter, but I'm just like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1274.51,"endTime":1276.94,"body":"you know, I think we have this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1276.94,"endTime":1279.16,"body":"thing in Catholicism about, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1276.94,"endTime":1279.16,"body":"know- supposed to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1279.34,"endTime":1281.5,"body":"preferential option for the poor"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1279.34,"endTime":1281.5,"body":"(they'd hate me to say that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1281.5,"endTime":1284.71,"body":"because, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1281.5,"endTime":1284.71,"body":"liberation theology) but- but I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1284.71,"endTime":1287.14,"body":"think, you know, Jesus would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1284.71,"endTime":1287.14,"body":"have had a preferential option-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1287.14,"endTime":1289.81,"body":"has a preferential option for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1287.14,"endTime":1289.81,"body":"the poor. And that's not what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1289.81,"endTime":1290.38,"body":"they have."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1290.89,"endTime":1293.41,"body":"No, no, I feel"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1290.89,"endTime":1293.41,"body":"like there's a bunch of stories"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1293.41,"endTime":1295.45,"body":"where Jesus likes the poor"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1293.41,"endTime":1295.45,"body":"people, and then the bishops are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1295.45,"endTime":1296.23,"body":"real mad about that."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1296.77,"endTime":1298.12,"body":"Even I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1296.77,"endTime":1298.12,"body":"know some of those stories."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1299.38,"endTime":1301.09,"body":"Because we made"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1299.38,"endTime":1301.09,"body":"you, sorry about colonialism."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1301.24,"endTime":1301.72,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1309.52,"endTime":1311.47,"body":"Can I ask a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1309.52,"endTime":1311.47,"body":"follow up 101 question for our"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1311.47,"endTime":1312.13,"body":"listeners?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1312.19,"endTime":1312.55,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1313.42,"endTime":1315.1,"body":"If we're talking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1313.42,"endTime":1315.1,"body":"about evangelicals, are we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1315.1,"endTime":1316.63,"body":"always talking about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1315.1,"endTime":1316.63,"body":"Protestants?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1318.19,"endTime":1320.17,"body":"Not always,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1318.19,"endTime":1320.17,"body":"but that's my definition."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1320.5,"endTime":1322.87,"body":"Because I feel like you can be-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1320.5,"endTime":1322.87,"body":"you can be a Catholic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1322.87,"endTime":1325.9,"body":"evangelical. I mean, as you can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1322.87,"endTime":1325.9,"body":"see, from the ways in which"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1325.9,"endTime":1328.09,"body":"Catholics embrace it, even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1325.9,"endTime":1328.09,"body":"though it's not doctrinal, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1328.51,"endTime":1331.18,"body":"that's a cultural kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1328.51,"endTime":1331.18,"body":"definition and not a theological"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1331.18,"endTime":1333.88,"body":"definition. If we're talking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1331.18,"endTime":1333.88,"body":"about theology, then that's a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1333.88,"endTime":1337.99,"body":"different ballgame. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1333.88,"endTime":1337.99,"body":"so I would want to- I would say,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1337.99,"endTime":1341.26,"body":"for the general public's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1337.99,"endTime":1341.26,"body":"knowledge, a Catholic is a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1341.26,"endTime":1344.23,"body":"Catholic, and an evangelical is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1341.26,"endTime":1344.23,"body":"an evangelical, right? And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1344.23,"endTime":1346.54,"body":"sometimes they come together on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1344.23,"endTime":1346.54,"body":"some things, and sometimes they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1346.54,"endTime":1346.87,"body":"don't."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1348.64,"endTime":1350.56,"body":"Can I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1348.64,"endTime":1350.56,"body":"ask another 101 follow up"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1350.56,"endTime":1351.31,"body":"question?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1352.24,"endTime":1352.54,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1352.75,"endTime":1355.93,"body":"Is the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1352.75,"endTime":1355.93,"body":"history of enslavement and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1355.93,"endTime":1359.05,"body":"racism in the United States the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1355.93,"endTime":1359.05,"body":"reason that when we hear"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1359.08,"endTime":1362.89,"body":"'evangelical' we think, \"white"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1359.08,"endTime":1362.89,"body":"folk\" or \"white Protestant"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1362.89,"endTime":1365.56,"body":"folk,\" because I know that when"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1362.89,"endTime":1365.56,"body":"I talk with, like, folks like my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1365.56,"endTime":1368.38,"body":"parents who are these like, you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1365.56,"endTime":1368.38,"body":"know, well-meaning Jewish people"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1368.38,"endTime":1371.89,"body":"from New York, who are like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1368.38,"endTime":1371.89,"body":"\"yeah, evangelicals equal white"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1371.89,"endTime":1376.09,"body":"people.\" So explaining to them"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1371.89,"endTime":1376.09,"body":"that evangelicalism has"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1376.27,"endTime":1379.27,"body":"different iterations around the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1376.27,"endTime":1379.27,"body":"world, I bet will blow their"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1379.27,"endTime":1381.64,"body":"minds, because that doesn't make"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1379.27,"endTime":1381.64,"body":"sense."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1381.67,"endTime":1381.97,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1382.3,"endTime":1383.71,"body":"So I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1382.3,"endTime":1383.71,"body":"curious if you could say more"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1383.71,"endTime":1384.25,"body":"about that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1385.66,"endTime":1388.33,"body":"Sure, and I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1385.66,"endTime":1388.33,"body":"could say it very simply, media."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1389.98,"endTime":1392.89,"body":"I mean- you know, you- I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1389.98,"endTime":1392.89,"body":"you can't just- I don't think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1392.95,"endTime":1398.11,"body":"we've really explored the ways"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1392.95,"endTime":1398.11,"body":"in which the media has cast"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1398.38,"endTime":1402.4,"body":"evangelicalism as white in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1398.38,"endTime":1402.4,"body":"70s and beyond. If I go back to-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1402.4,"endTime":1405.1,"body":"if I think about- think it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1402.4,"endTime":1405.1,"body":"in '76, when they had this, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1405.1,"endTime":1409.03,"body":"know, big Time Magazine expose"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1405.1,"endTime":1409.03,"body":"on evangelicals, most of those"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1409.03,"endTime":1412.15,"body":"people were white. And, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1409.03,"endTime":1412.15,"body":"know, when we talk about the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1412.15,"endTime":1414.97,"body":"Moral Majority, all those things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1412.15,"endTime":1414.97,"body":"in- ro- and the relationship to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1414.97,"endTime":1417.37,"body":"Ronald Reagan and all that, this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1414.97,"endTime":1417.37,"body":"is when it gets to be right. If"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1417.37,"endTime":1420.25,"body":"you want to push back earlier,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1417.37,"endTime":1420.25,"body":"you can think about even just,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1420.25,"endTime":1423.4,"body":"you know, Billy Graham going"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1420.25,"endTime":1423.4,"body":"around everywhere, you- I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1423.43,"endTime":1425.59,"body":"you know, there's no way you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1423.43,"endTime":1425.59,"body":"could say King was an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1425.62,"endTime":1429.07,"body":"evangelical, let's say, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1425.62,"endTime":1429.07,"body":"But you could say a lot of black"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1429.07,"endTime":1431.44,"body":"Baptists were evangelical, in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1429.07,"endTime":1431.44,"body":"terms of their beliefs, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1431.44,"endTime":1434.44,"body":"everything, where they never get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1431.44,"endTime":1434.44,"body":"called evangelicals because of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1434.44,"endTime":1438.52,"body":"their voting habits, right? And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1434.44,"endTime":1438.52,"body":"so the ways in which, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1438.64,"endTime":1441.58,"body":"black Christians may vote, they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1438.64,"endTime":1441.58,"body":"might not say, \"Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1441.58,"endTime":1445.36,"body":"I might be pro-life, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1441.58,"endTime":1445.36,"body":"voting Democrat, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1445.36,"endTime":1448.72,"body":"voting about some different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1445.36,"endTime":1448.72,"body":"issues,\" right? They never get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1448.72,"endTime":1452.08,"body":"considered to be evangelical."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1448.72,"endTime":1452.08,"body":"Now, one thing I do say in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1452.08,"endTime":1455.5,"body":"book, and I'll pick on this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1452.08,"endTime":1455.5,"body":"person, specifically, is that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1455.5,"endTime":1458.26,"body":"one of the things that started"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1455.5,"endTime":1458.26,"body":"happening is that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1458.29,"endTime":1461.98,"body":"evangelicals started reaching"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1458.29,"endTime":1461.98,"body":"during the Trump campaign and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1462.01,"endTime":1464.83,"body":"the Trump presidency, to say,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1462.01,"endTime":1464.83,"body":"\"Well, you know, evangelicals"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1464.83,"endTime":1469.18,"body":"are all colors, Asian Americans,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1464.83,"endTime":1469.18,"body":"blacks, Latino, Latinx,\" you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1469.18,"endTime":1471.94,"body":"know, it was like, they were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1469.18,"endTime":1471.94,"body":"ready to dra- bring everybody"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1471.94,"endTime":1474.79,"body":"into that evangelical fold,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1471.94,"endTime":1474.79,"body":"right? But that was to hide the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1474.79,"endTime":1479.17,"body":"racism. And so one of the people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1474.79,"endTime":1479.17,"body":"who did that, you know, was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1479.98,"endTime":1482.8,"body":"Sojourners, guy, Jim Wallace."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1479.98,"endTime":1482.8,"body":"He's like, \"you know what,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1482.83,"endTime":1485.53,"body":"evangelicals are all different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1482.83,"endTime":1485.53,"body":"kinds of colors\", when you see"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1485.53,"endTime":1488.95,"body":"the white guy do that, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1485.53,"endTime":1488.95,"body":"means that they are trying to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1488.95,"endTime":1491.77,"body":"bring everybody in so it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1488.95,"endTime":1491.77,"body":"make white people look bad."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1492.16,"endTime":1495.88,"body":"Okay? And that's- that's not the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1492.16,"endTime":1495.88,"body":"thing here. The thing here is,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1496.03,"endTime":1498.31,"body":"there's a reason why"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1496.03,"endTime":1498.31,"body":"evangelicals got called white"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1498.31,"endTime":1502.06,"body":"because they, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1498.31,"endTime":1502.06,"body":"wanted to be white, and they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1502.06,"endTime":1505.9,"body":"want the whiteness and they want"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1502.06,"endTime":1505.9,"body":"people within evangelicalism to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1505.9,"endTime":1509.14,"body":"be like white people. I talk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1505.9,"endTime":1509.14,"body":"about this in my book, I talk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1509.14,"endTime":1511.72,"body":"about the cultural issues about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1509.14,"endTime":1511.72,"body":"singing and all this, like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1512.17,"endTime":1514.66,"body":"\"it's great if you bring that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1512.17,"endTime":1514.66,"body":"gospel singing in, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1514.66,"endTime":1517.18,"body":"we'd really like you to just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1514.66,"endTime":1517.18,"body":"like behave like white people.\""},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1517.69,"endTime":1521.11,"body":"And that would be easier. And so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1517.69,"endTime":1521.11,"body":"I think that's an important part"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1521.11,"endTime":1524.29,"body":"of evangelicalism is that it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1521.11,"endTime":1524.29,"body":"wants to subsume you under"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1524.29,"endTime":1527.53,"body":"evangelical culture, which is a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1524.29,"endTime":1527.53,"body":"culture of whiteness in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1527.53,"endTime":1531.34,"body":"certain kind of way. And that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1527.53,"endTime":1531.34,"body":"way, you can't- you can't be who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1531.34,"endTime":1535.06,"body":"you are, unless you accept all"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1531.34,"endTime":1535.06,"body":"of that politically, socially,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1535.06,"endTime":1538.18,"body":"morally, everything. And even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1535.06,"endTime":1538.18,"body":"with the moral stuff, we know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1538.18,"endTime":1540.73,"body":"that that's a bunk anyway,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1538.18,"endTime":1540.73,"body":"because it means that men get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1540.73,"endTime":1542.71,"body":"away with stuff all the time,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1540.73,"endTime":1542.71,"body":"and women can't do anything."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1543.28,"endTime":1545.83,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1543.28,"endTime":1545.83,"body":"what I hear you saying, first of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1545.83,"endTime":1548.92,"body":"all, is awesome. I'm like, so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1545.83,"endTime":1548.92,"body":"excited about this book. And, as"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1548.92,"endTime":1551.95,"body":"our listeners know, I'm a South"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1548.92,"endTime":1551.95,"body":"Asianist, I don't- I don't-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1552.25,"endTime":1555.7,"body":"really, I'm not supposed to care"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1552.25,"endTime":1555.7,"body":"about the United States. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1555.7,"endTime":1558.01,"body":"excited about this book. But"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1555.7,"endTime":1558.01,"body":"what I hear you saying is that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1558.01,"endTime":1562.12,"body":"evangelicalism is one of these-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1558.01,"endTime":1562.12,"body":"it's a word that has Venn"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1562.12,"endTime":1565.75,"body":"diagrams in it already because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1562.12,"endTime":1565.75,"body":"it's assuming political"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1565.75,"endTime":1568.48,"body":"definitions, cultural"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1565.75,"endTime":1568.48,"body":"definitions, racial definitions,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1568.51,"endTime":1572.35,"body":"and then also nuances within"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1568.51,"endTime":1572.35,"body":"Christianity. And so it sounds"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1572.35,"endTime":1576.19,"body":"like what your book is doing is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1572.35,"endTime":1576.19,"body":"taking us through all of those"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1576.19,"endTime":1579.55,"body":"different aspects to get at this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1576.19,"endTime":1579.55,"body":"issue of white evangelical"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1579.55,"endTime":1581.65,"body":"racism specifically, is that a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1579.55,"endTime":1581.65,"body":"fair-?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1582.31,"endTime":1584.71,"body":"Yes, it is,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1582.31,"endTime":1584.71,"body":"but with the but- that's fair,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1584.71,"endTime":1588.55,"body":"but also with the foundation of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1584.71,"endTime":1588.55,"body":"racism, racism, racism..."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1588.55,"endTime":1588.7,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1588.7,"endTime":1588.91,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1588.97,"endTime":1591.31,"body":"and- and a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1588.97,"endTime":1591.31,"body":"consistent racism from 19th to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1591.31,"endTime":1595.3,"body":"21st century, a racism that does"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1591.31,"endTime":1595.3,"body":"not let up, a racism that is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1595.3,"endTime":1598.81,"body":"built in, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1595.3,"endTime":1598.81,"body":"constructions post-Civil War,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1599.05,"endTime":1602.65,"body":"about, you know, black men being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1599.05,"endTime":1602.65,"body":"rapists, and white women- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1602.65,"endTime":1606.73,"body":"black women being, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1602.65,"endTime":1606.73,"body":"loose and lewd and white women"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1606.73,"endTime":1611.26,"body":"being pure, and the family being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1606.73,"endTime":1611.26,"body":"the core unit of everything, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1611.26,"endTime":1613.54,"body":"a certain kind of structure with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1611.26,"endTime":1613.54,"body":"the father on top, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1613.54,"endTime":1616.36,"body":"patriarchy, and all that kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1613.54,"endTime":1616.36,"body":"stuff. And that's why we get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1616.36,"endTime":1619.15,"body":"these family values talks today."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1616.36,"endTime":1619.15,"body":"I mean, it's one of the big"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1619.15,"endTime":1622.6,"body":"things that they keep focusing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1619.15,"endTime":1622.6,"body":"on, and I'm like, yet still, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1622.6,"endTime":1626.08,"body":"like, but you have children in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1622.6,"endTime":1626.08,"body":"cages at the border and I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1626.08,"endTime":1628.54,"body":"Biden's not doing any better"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1626.08,"endTime":1628.54,"body":"either right now, so I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1628.54,"endTime":1629.14,"body":"at him too."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1629.14,"endTime":1631.0,"body":"Well they're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1629.14,"endTime":1631.0,"body":"facilities, right? They're no"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1631.0,"endTime":1633.91,"body":"longer cages, they're nice"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1631.0,"endTime":1633.91,"body":"facilities that we also put"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1633.91,"endTime":1636.88,"body":"babies in. We put babies in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1633.91,"endTime":1636.88,"body":"nicer painted cages."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1637.05,"endTime":1638.31,"body":"It's still"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1637.05,"endTime":1638.31,"body":"bullshit, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1638.4,"endTime":1638.58,"body":"Yes ma'am."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1638.61,"endTime":1639.99,"body":"if the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1638.61,"endTime":1639.99,"body":"bishops want to get after him"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1639.99,"endTime":1641.46,"body":"for something they should get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1639.99,"endTime":1641.46,"body":"after him for that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1641.46,"endTime":1641.58,"body":"Well, I-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1642.11,"endTime":1644.39,"body":"But, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1642.11,"endTime":1644.39,"body":"know, yeah, but that's why I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1644.39,"endTime":1647.3,"body":"saying you're wasting time on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1644.39,"endTime":1647.3,"body":"regular stuff when you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1647.3,"endTime":1649.46,"body":"thing is, it's like, you should"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1647.3,"endTime":1649.46,"body":"be trying to think about these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1649.46,"endTime":1652.04,"body":"kids and what's happening and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1649.46,"endTime":1652.04,"body":"putting these kids back together"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1652.04,"endTime":1656.45,"body":"with their parents. So yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1652.04,"endTime":1656.45,"body":"mean, I think that this idea"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1656.45,"endTime":1659.87,"body":"about evangelicalism being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1656.45,"endTime":1659.87,"body":"white, and that's why we put"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1659.9,"endTime":1661.67,"body":"\"white\" at the beginning of it,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1659.9,"endTime":1661.67,"body":"we could have just said"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1661.67,"endTime":1665.27,"body":"evangelical racism, uh, but I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1661.67,"endTime":1665.27,"body":"wanted it to say \"White"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1665.3,"endTime":1669.17,"body":"Evangelical Racism,\" to sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1665.3,"endTime":1669.17,"body":"put that punch in it, to make"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1669.17,"endTime":1672.59,"body":"sure that people understood that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1669.17,"endTime":1672.59,"body":"there's no- there's no give"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1672.59,"endTime":1676.4,"body":"here. There's no way to hide and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1672.59,"endTime":1676.4,"body":"I put in the spotlight on white"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1676.4,"endTime":1678.92,"body":"people and evangelicalism,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1676.4,"endTime":1678.92,"body":"period, end of story."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1680.06,"endTime":1680.54,"body":"I love"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1680.06,"endTime":1680.54,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1680.39,"endTime":1688.55,"body":"It was a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1680.39,"endTime":1688.55,"body":"surprising thing to me when I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1688.55,"endTime":1692.48,"body":"was starting to learn more about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1688.55,"endTime":1692.48,"body":"evangelicalism in grad school"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1692.78,"endTime":1697.49,"body":"that we see folks in Latin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1692.78,"endTime":1697.49,"body":"America, particularly converting"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1697.49,"endTime":1701.93,"body":"to evangelicalism because it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1697.49,"endTime":1701.93,"body":"gets equated with- with"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1701.93,"endTime":1705.8,"body":"whiteness, unstated, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1701.93,"endTime":1705.8,"body":"prosperity as stated, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1705.95,"endTime":1708.8,"body":"Like Catholicism has been"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1705.95,"endTime":1708.8,"body":"alighted with poverty in ways"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1708.8,"endTime":1711.89,"body":"that were really surprising to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1708.8,"endTime":1711.89,"body":"me. But I feel like that-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1711.75,"endTime":1712.92,"body":"Not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1711.75,"endTime":1712.92,"body":"surprising to me, I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1712.92,"endTime":1714.78,"body":"the whole thing. You're supposed"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1712.92,"endTime":1714.78,"body":"to give up everything and follow"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1714.78,"endTime":1717.48,"body":"after God, if you become in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1714.78,"endTime":1717.48,"body":"order, you give everything up,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1717.48,"endTime":1721.86,"body":"and you know, you're supposed to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1717.48,"endTime":1721.86,"body":"be taken care of, right? So I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1721.86,"endTime":1724.71,"body":"think, you know, this idea about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1721.86,"endTime":1724.71,"body":"whiteness and evangelicalism"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1724.71,"endTime":1726.99,"body":"becomes really important,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1724.71,"endTime":1726.99,"body":"because, you know, it's even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1726.99,"endTime":1728.7,"body":"more than that. It's capitalism."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1728.7,"endTime":1729.63,"body":"I was gonna say."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1729.0,"endTime":1731.55,"body":"If you look"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1729.0,"endTime":1731.55,"body":"at somebody like Kevin Kruse's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1731.58,"endTime":1734.34,"body":"book, \"One Nation Under God,\" I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1731.58,"endTime":1734.34,"body":"mean, it's if you put that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1734.34,"endTime":1737.25,"body":"together with mine then you get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1734.34,"endTime":1737.25,"body":"a really good picture about what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1737.25,"endTime":1739.89,"body":"this kind of capitalist"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1737.25,"endTime":1739.89,"body":"evangelical religion is like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1740.73,"endTime":1743.49,"body":"and what that brings to the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1740.73,"endTime":1743.49,"body":"world and why people really love"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1743.49,"endTime":1744.36,"body":"all that stuff."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1744.54,"endTime":1744.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1745.65,"endTime":1747.36,"body":"We're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1745.65,"endTime":1747.36,"body":"gonna pivot a little bit and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1747.36,"endTime":1750.45,"body":"say, one of the things that we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1747.36,"endTime":1750.45,"body":"both admire about your work is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1750.45,"endTime":1753.45,"body":"that it is always and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1750.45,"endTime":1753.45,"body":"unapologetically public-facing,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1754.23,"endTime":1756.36,"body":"you started at the top actually"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1754.23,"endTime":1756.36,"body":"of saying, like you are in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1756.36,"endTime":1759.51,"body":"public, and not just your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1756.36,"endTime":1759.51,"body":"students, you are in public. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1759.51,"endTime":1762.12,"body":"so one of the things we've"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1759.51,"endTime":1762.12,"body":"talked about a lot on this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1762.12,"endTime":1765.87,"body":"podcast, most recently with"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1762.12,"endTime":1765.87,"body":"Simran Jeet Singh, who I know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1765.9,"endTime":1771.84,"body":"you know, is that sometimes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1765.9,"endTime":1771.84,"body":"that's a choice, and other"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1771.84,"endTime":1777.87,"body":"times, particularly for, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1771.84,"endTime":1777.87,"body":"nonwhite, nonChristian folks,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1777.99,"endTime":1781.92,"body":"and both of those and all of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1777.99,"endTime":1781.92,"body":"those at once, this cannot be a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1781.92,"endTime":1786.42,"body":"choice. And so I would love to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1781.92,"endTime":1786.42,"body":"hear more about whether or not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1786.42,"endTime":1789.69,"body":"public-facing or public"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1786.42,"endTime":1789.69,"body":"scholarship or just being loud"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1789.69,"endTime":1793.41,"body":"outside is a choice that you're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1789.69,"endTime":1793.41,"body":"making actively, if it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1793.41,"endTime":1797.58,"body":"something that you feel called"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1793.41,"endTime":1797.58,"body":"to do, or is it something that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1797.82,"endTime":1801.42,"body":"is in some ways put upon you,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1797.82,"endTime":1801.42,"body":"and so you've answered those"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1801.42,"endTime":1804.09,"body":"pressures of being an academic?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1805.95,"endTime":1808.02,"body":"They may have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1805.95,"endTime":1808.02,"body":"been all of those at one time or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1808.02,"endTime":1811.14,"body":"another. But I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1808.02,"endTime":1811.14,"body":"fundamentally, I don't even say"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1811.14,"endTime":1814.71,"body":"it was a calling, it was just a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1811.14,"endTime":1814.71,"body":"choice. Because I think that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1814.71,"endTime":1816.72,"body":"you know, for a lot of people-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1814.71,"endTime":1816.72,"body":"people don't remember this, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1816.72,"endTime":1819.99,"body":"I'll talk about it. I spent my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1816.72,"endTime":1819.99,"body":"writing career, my public"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1819.99,"endTime":1823.08,"body":"writing career started in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1819.99,"endTime":1823.08,"body":"Revealer, and- with Jeff"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1823.08,"endTime":1826.68,"body":"Sharlet, who's a good friend of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1823.08,"endTime":1826.68,"body":"mine, and it was around Katrina,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1826.68,"endTime":1830.67,"body":"and I had nine family members"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1826.68,"endTime":1830.67,"body":"missing. And I wrote a piece,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1830.7,"endTime":1833.31,"body":"you know, \"As Sheep Without a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1830.7,"endTime":1833.31,"body":"Shepherd,\" it was basically"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1833.31,"endTime":1835.29,"body":"about, you know, George Bush,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1833.31,"endTime":1835.29,"body":"and I said George Bush was the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1835.29,"endTime":1839.67,"body":"Antichrist. So of course, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1835.29,"endTime":1839.67,"body":"was my first dust up with people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1839.67,"endTime":1843.0,"body":"saying, \"we've-, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1839.67,"endTime":1843.0,"body":"try- to cancel our"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1843.0,"endTime":1845.85,"body":"subscription!\" And Jeff was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1843.0,"endTime":1845.85,"body":"like, \"but it's free. It's just-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1846.87,"endTime":1850.29,"body":"all you got to do is unsign for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1846.87,"endTime":1850.29,"body":"the email.\" And, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1850.29,"endTime":1852.54,"body":"was- it was about this whole"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1850.29,"endTime":1852.54,"body":"thing that had happened in New"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1852.54,"endTime":1856.53,"body":"Orleans about everybody being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1852.54,"endTime":1856.53,"body":"missing. And, you know, there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1856.53,"endTime":1859.98,"body":"was a picture of white people,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1856.53,"endTime":1859.98,"body":"they were \"finding\" bread, but a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1859.98,"endTime":1862.44,"body":"black person who was gone into a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1859.98,"endTime":1862.44,"body":"store wading into the store was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1862.47,"endTime":1863.07,"body":"\"looting,\""},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1863.07,"endTime":1863.43,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1863.45,"endTime":1866.0,"body":"And so this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1863.45,"endTime":1866.0,"body":"was a moment to talk about that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1866.0,"endTime":1869.96,"body":"you know, and to talk about the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1866.0,"endTime":1869.96,"body":"disparity in the press, but also"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1869.96,"endTime":1873.29,"body":"the sort of religious thing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1869.96,"endTime":1873.29,"body":"about how this came upon, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1873.29,"endTime":1876.47,"body":"know, Louisiana, because it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1873.29,"endTime":1876.47,"body":"like Sodom and Gomorrah, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1876.47,"endTime":1878.33,"body":"forgot- maybe it was Pat"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1876.47,"endTime":1878.33,"body":"Robertson, or somebody said"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1878.33,"endTime":1878.54,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1878.87,"endTime":1879.23,"body":"Sounds right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1879.0,"endTime":1882.27,"body":"Some pat-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1879.0,"endTime":1882.27,"body":"pastor, but um, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1882.27,"endTime":1884.49,"body":"when it started. And I started"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1882.27,"endTime":1884.49,"body":"writing there, and I started"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1884.49,"endTime":1888.24,"body":"writing for Religion Dispatches,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1884.49,"endTime":1888.24,"body":"and then I got on TV, which was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1888.24,"endTime":1890.67,"body":"a whole nother ballgame. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1888.24,"endTime":1890.67,"body":"that kind of happened because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1890.67,"endTime":1895.83,"body":"when Melissa Harris-Perry show"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1890.67,"endTime":1895.83,"body":"started on MSNBC in 2011, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1895.83,"endTime":1899.43,"body":"know, that's where I really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1895.83,"endTime":1899.43,"body":"became public, but it wasn't- it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1899.43,"endTime":1903.03,"body":"wasn't like something I was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1899.43,"endTime":1903.03,"body":"necessarily looking for, it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1903.03,"endTime":1906.12,"body":"just the- because the stories"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1903.03,"endTime":1906.12,"body":"were interesting to me, and I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1906.12,"endTime":1908.94,"body":"happened to write about them."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1906.12,"endTime":1908.94,"body":"So, I would say there's these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1908.94,"endTime":1912.96,"body":"moments of breakout. So one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1908.94,"endTime":1912.96,"body":"moment of breakout was Katrina,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1912.99,"endTime":1916.23,"body":"one moment of breakout for me"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1912.99,"endTime":1916.23,"body":"was Eddie Long, believe it or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1916.23,"endTime":1919.41,"body":"not, because I had gone down"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1916.23,"endTime":1919.41,"body":"when Eddie Long had the big"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1919.41,"endTime":1922.29,"body":"thing where he had molested the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1919.41,"endTime":1922.29,"body":"boys and he had a service and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1922.53,"endTime":1926.67,"body":"the Washington Post picked that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1922.53,"endTime":1926.67,"body":"up. One moment of breakout for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1926.67,"endTime":1931.02,"body":"me was honestly, Trayvon Martin"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1926.67,"endTime":1931.02,"body":"and you know, this past week,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1931.17,"endTime":1935.52,"body":"Rush Limbaugh died and all imma"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1931.17,"endTime":1935.52,"body":"say about that is what Betty"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1935.52,"endTime":1938.94,"body":"Davis said about Joan Crawford,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1935.52,"endTime":1938.94,"body":"and I'm gonna leave it at that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1939.36,"endTime":1943.77,"body":"But, you know, being spoken"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1939.36,"endTime":1943.77,"body":"about with- you know, the same"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1943.77,"endTime":1946.59,"body":"week that I wrote about, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1943.77,"endTime":1946.59,"body":"know, God is- why does- is God a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1946.59,"endTime":1950.19,"body":"white racist, right? Which was a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1946.59,"endTime":1950.19,"body":"riff off of a philosophy book"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1950.19,"endTime":1954.0,"body":"from 1970. And the right-wingers"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1950.19,"endTime":1954.0,"body":"picked it up and like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1954.0,"endTime":1957.09,"body":"basically came after me for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1954.0,"endTime":1957.09,"body":"weeks and weeks and weeks"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1957.09,"endTime":1961.86,"body":"afterwards, that first week that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1957.09,"endTime":1961.86,"body":"I wrote that piece, it was- Sean"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1961.86,"endTime":1965.07,"body":"Hannity and Rush Limbaugh talked"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1961.86,"endTime":1965.07,"body":"about me on their shows twice"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1965.1,"endTime":1969.6,"body":"each that week. And that was in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1965.1,"endTime":1969.6,"body":"2014. Yeah. So that was right"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1969.6,"endTime":1974.19,"body":"before- was that right before? I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1969.6,"endTime":1974.19,"body":"can't even- maybe 2013? I can't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1974.19,"endTime":1976.41,"body":"even remember, it's like, all"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1974.19,"endTime":1976.41,"body":"this stuff- it's so much bad"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1976.41,"endTime":1977.1,"body":"stuff, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1977.13,"endTime":1977.52,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1977.52,"endTime":1979.59,"body":"It all just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1977.52,"endTime":1979.59,"body":"kind of flows together. So I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1979.59,"endTime":1983.82,"body":"would say those were like big"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1979.59,"endTime":1983.82,"body":"pieces of writing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1983.82,"endTime":1987.15,"body":"that- that kind of put me out in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1983.82,"endTime":1987.15,"body":"the public eye plus the TV stuff"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1987.15,"endTime":1990.84,"body":"and everything. So, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1987.15,"endTime":1990.84,"body":"mean, I think, you know, what-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1990.87,"endTime":1993.54,"body":"if I'm talking to anybody out"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1990.87,"endTime":1993.54,"body":"here that's listening to this, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1993.54,"endTime":1995.88,"body":"think, you know, people look at"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1993.54,"endTime":1995.88,"body":"me and go, \"Oh, how did you do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1995.88,"endTime":1998.37,"body":"it? It was really great. Blah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1995.88,"endTime":1998.37,"body":"blah.\" I'm like, I think people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1998.37,"endTime":2002.24,"body":"forget, it's been 15/16 years"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":1998.37,"endTime":2002.24,"body":"I've been doing it, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2002.24,"endTime":2002.42,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2002.78,"endTime":2005.18,"body":"And then also"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2002.78,"endTime":2005.18,"body":"the part- the reason why I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2005.18,"endTime":2007.88,"body":"I've been able to do it is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2005.18,"endTime":2007.88,"body":"because I actually talk to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2007.88,"endTime":2011.66,"body":"journalists and actually ask"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2007.88,"endTime":2011.66,"body":"them questions. And I actually"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2011.69,"endTime":2013.01,"body":"have relationships with them."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2013.07,"endTime":2013.37,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2013.39,"endTime":2016.42,"body":"So I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2013.39,"endTime":2016.42,"body":"that for me, it hasn't been a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2016.42,"endTime":2019.84,"body":"bad thing. It's been a thing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2016.42,"endTime":2019.84,"body":"that has been- it's helped my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2019.84,"endTime":2023.89,"body":"work. And it's helped me think."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2019.84,"endTime":2023.89,"body":"And so, I'm really grateful"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2023.89,"endTime":2028.48,"body":"about it. But I think that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2023.89,"endTime":2028.48,"body":"there's a- I will say this also,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2028.48,"endTime":2031.36,"body":"you didn't ask me this, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2028.48,"endTime":2031.36,"body":"going to add it as a- as a 50"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2031.36,"endTime":2035.59,"body":"cent addition to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2031.36,"endTime":2035.59,"body":"There's a lot of people who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2035.59,"endTime":2037.93,"body":"think that this is something,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2035.59,"endTime":2037.93,"body":"you know, whether that's your"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2037.93,"endTime":2041.26,"body":"institution wants you to do it,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2037.93,"endTime":2041.26,"body":"or you want to do it, that it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2041.26,"endTime":2043.66,"body":"easy to do. It is not easy to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2041.26,"endTime":2043.66,"body":"do."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2043.84,"endTime":2044.08,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2044.33,"endTime":2046.25,"body":"And- and I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2044.33,"endTime":2046.25,"body":"think that people don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2046.25,"endTime":2050.12,"body":"understand that there's a time-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2046.25,"endTime":2050.12,"body":"there's a time thing involved,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2050.42,"endTime":2052.82,"body":"that you have to be a fast"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2050.42,"endTime":2052.82,"body":"writer for certain kinds of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2052.82,"endTime":2055.94,"body":"things. You can't agonize, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2052.82,"endTime":2055.94,"body":"have to write you have to get it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2055.94,"endTime":2058.91,"body":"off your desk. You know, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2055.94,"endTime":2058.91,"body":"average time it takes me to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2058.91,"endTime":2062.39,"body":"write an op-ed, if I'm feeling"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2058.91,"endTime":2062.39,"body":"really good about it, or- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2062.39,"endTime":2066.59,"body":"what I mean by good is I feel"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2062.39,"endTime":2066.59,"body":"motivated by it. Two to three"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2066.59,"endTime":2067.16,"body":"hours."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2067.19,"endTime":2067.73,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2067.91,"endTime":2070.37,"body":"Okay, and if"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2067.91,"endTime":2070.37,"body":"it's- if it's something longer"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2070.37,"endTime":2072.92,"body":"than it takes longer, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2070.37,"endTime":2072.92,"body":"it takes me longer to write them"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2072.92,"endTime":2076.46,"body":"because it's, you know, it's not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2072.92,"endTime":2076.46,"body":"my- it's not my lane or it's not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2076.46,"endTime":2079.46,"body":"something I feel very strongly"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2076.46,"endTime":2079.46,"body":"about. But you know, takes me a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2079.46,"endTime":2082.91,"body":"long time to write a book and-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2079.46,"endTime":2082.91,"body":"and- and some things take longer"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2082.91,"endTime":2086.96,"body":"than others. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2082.91,"endTime":2086.96,"body":"for people who want to get into"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2086.96,"endTime":2089.51,"body":"this now, there was a moment I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2086.96,"endTime":2089.51,"body":"would say on Twitter- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2089.9,"endTime":2092.42,"body":"Twitter, especially not Facebook"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2089.9,"endTime":2092.42,"body":"because Facebook is for your"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2092.42,"endTime":2095.99,"body":"grandma. You know, and to share"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2092.42,"endTime":2095.99,"body":"your doggy pictures and your"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2095.99,"endTime":2096.77,"body":"kitty pictures."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2097.31,"endTime":2097.52,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2097.31,"endTime":2097.52,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2097.55,"endTime":2099.62,"body":"You know, am"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2097.55,"endTime":2099.62,"body":"I mean, or you know, for people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2099.62,"endTime":2102.74,"body":"to mobilize cuz they're MAGA or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2099.62,"endTime":2102.74,"body":"whatever. But um-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2102.89,"endTime":2104.39,"body":"It's where you go"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2102.89,"endTime":2104.39,"body":"if you need to start a genocide,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2104.39,"endTime":2104.96,"body":"sure, but-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2104.96,"endTime":2106.82,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2104.96,"endTime":2106.82,"body":"exactly. But it's not- it's not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2106.82,"endTime":2109.76,"body":"some place that you go to, like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2106.82,"endTime":2109.76,"body":"be, well, you know, news-worthy,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2110.18,"endTime":2114.14,"body":"right? It's a place that you go"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2110.18,"endTime":2114.14,"body":"spread disinformation to. But I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2114.14,"endTime":2117.53,"body":"think that, you know, there was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2114.14,"endTime":2117.53,"body":"a time on Twitter, I would say"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2117.53,"endTime":2122.12,"body":"maybe from 2011 to 2015, that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2117.53,"endTime":2122.12,"body":"you know, reporters will reach"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2122.12,"endTime":2125.3,"body":"out to you and talk to you. I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2122.12,"endTime":2125.3,"body":"mean, this was one, I- let me"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2125.3,"endTime":2127.4,"body":"give you an example of a very"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2125.3,"endTime":2127.4,"body":"big story. I'm sorry I'm taking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2127.4,"endTime":2128.51,"body":"a little long to do this, but I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2127.4,"endTime":2128.51,"body":"know-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2128.29,"endTime":2130.491,"body":"But I just-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2128.29,"endTime":2130.491,"body":"people like to talk about. When"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2128.51,"endTime":2128.57,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2130.542,"endTime":2133.46,"body":"Charleston happened, I was"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2130.542,"endTime":2133.46,"body":"actually not at home, I was in"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2133.511,"endTime":2136.736,"body":"Boston, and I was in Boston at"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2133.511,"endTime":2136.736,"body":"the Jesuit residence, believe it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2136.787,"endTime":2139.91,"body":"or not, because I knew that this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2136.787,"endTime":2139.91,"body":"encyclical was going to come"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2139.961,"endTime":2142.776,"body":"out, on, um- I think it was on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2139.961,"endTime":2142.776,"body":"the environment. I can't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2142.827,"endTime":2145.899,"body":"remember which one, and I was"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2142.827,"endTime":2145.899,"body":"there because I was visiting a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2145.95,"endTime":2149.124,"body":"friend, and I was gonna read it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2145.95,"endTime":2149.124,"body":"with them that morning and try"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2149.175,"endTime":2152.144,"body":"to write a piece about it. And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2149.175,"endTime":2152.144,"body":"about like, 11:30, my phone"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2152.195,"endTime":2155.369,"body":"started ringing, and I was just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2152.195,"endTime":2155.369,"body":"like, \"Who's calling me, who's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2155.42,"endTime":2158.44,"body":"calling me?\" and it was my"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2155.42,"endTime":2158.44,"body":"sister's trying to tell me about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2158.492,"endTime":2161.409,"body":"the shooting and what had"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2158.492,"endTime":2161.409,"body":"happened. And I got on Twitter,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2161.461,"endTime":2164.225,"body":"and I started tweeting about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2161.461,"endTime":2164.225,"body":"this. I said, \"I bet that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2164.276,"endTime":2167.348,"body":"they're going to say that this"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2164.276,"endTime":2167.348,"body":"guy was a lone wolf. I bet he"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2167.399,"endTime":2170.368,"body":"was white. I bet he was this. I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2167.399,"endTime":2170.368,"body":"bet it was that.\" and it's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2170.419,"endTime":2173.49,"body":"somebody from the Washington"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2170.419,"endTime":2173.49,"body":"Post, said, \"can you, you know,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2173.09,"endTime":2213.2,"body":"You can take as"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2173.09,"endTime":2213.2,"body":"long as you want."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2173.542,"endTime":2176.664,"body":"can you write about this?\" And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2173.542,"endTime":2176.664,"body":"that's the first time I did an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2176.715,"endTime":2179.889,"body":"all nighter to write an op-ed. I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2176.715,"endTime":2179.889,"body":"finished it at six o'clock in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2179.94,"endTime":2183.063,"body":"the morning, and it was why- wh-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2179.94,"endTime":2183.063,"body":"Why- \"Why White Shooters Are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2183.114,"endTime":2185.981,"body":"Called Mentally Ill and Why"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2183.114,"endTime":2185.981,"body":"Shooters of Color Are Called"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2186.032,"endTime":2188.08,"body":"Terrorists.\" I mean, it went everywhere,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2188.08,"endTime":2190.9,"body":"Yeah I use it in class."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2190.9,"endTime":2192.94,"body":"I use"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2190.9,"endTime":2192.94,"body":"that piece in my in my race class."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2192.96,"endTime":2195.06,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2192.96,"endTime":2195.06,"body":"people write to me still about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2195.06,"endTime":2197.82,"body":"it. And I think that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2195.06,"endTime":2197.82,"body":"it was a really important"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2197.82,"endTime":2201.3,"body":"moment, because I could link the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2197.82,"endTime":2201.3,"body":"religious history that I knew,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2201.48,"endTime":2204.9,"body":"with this media interest that I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2201.48,"endTime":2204.9,"body":"had, with the interest about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2204.9,"endTime":2207.84,"body":"race, about how do we code these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2204.9,"endTime":2207.84,"body":"things? How do people say this?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2208.05,"endTime":2210.72,"body":"And it's the reason why we're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2208.05,"endTime":2210.72,"body":"not doing anything- that- that a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2210.72,"endTime":2213.87,"body":"lot's not happening- more is not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2210.72,"endTime":2213.87,"body":"happening with the insurrection."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2214.05,"endTime":2217.2,"body":"It's because they're white! I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2214.05,"endTime":2217.2,"body":"mean, you know, if it was black"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2217.2,"endTime":2219.63,"body":"people, we'd've been shot on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2217.2,"endTime":2219.63,"body":"lawn, before we even got in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2219.63,"endTime":2219.72,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2220.35,"endTime":2221.28,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2221.43,"endTime":2223.14,"body":"You know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2221.43,"endTime":2223.14,"body":"sorry, that's what would've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2223.14,"endTime":2226.44,"body":"happened. And- and you know- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2223.14,"endTime":2226.44,"body":"that one black dude that you see"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2226.44,"endTime":2229.02,"body":"in the in the Senate chamber? I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2226.44,"endTime":2229.02,"body":"mean, dude ain't ever getting"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2229.02,"endTime":2231.21,"body":"out of jail, he didn't even get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2229.02,"endTime":2231.21,"body":"bail, and everybody else is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2231.21,"endTime":2232.59,"body":"like, \"Can I go to Mexico?\""},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2232.77,"endTime":2236.01,"body":"I need to eat"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2232.77,"endTime":2236.01,"body":"organic. It's for my religion."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2236.04,"endTime":2238.41,"body":"I know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2236.04,"endTime":2238.41,"body":"right? And eating organic, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2238.41,"endTime":2241.14,"body":"I'm like, I've got a good job,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2238.41,"endTime":2241.14,"body":"and I'm not even eating organic,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2241.14,"endTime":2241.53,"body":"what's wrong-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2242.22,"endTime":2245.97,"body":"I just- I keep"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2242.22,"endTime":2245.97,"body":"thinking about how- A) how hard"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2245.97,"endTime":2250.56,"body":"it is to get like Halal food"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2245.97,"endTime":2250.56,"body":"inside anyway, but also I keep-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2250.71,"endTime":2256.08,"body":"I keep thinking about Dominique"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2250.71,"endTime":2256.08,"body":"Ray, who died without an Imam"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2256.08,"endTime":2261.15,"body":"present because Alabama doesn't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2256.08,"endTime":2261.15,"body":"employ nonChristian ministers."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2261.15,"endTime":2261.78,"body":"Mhm. Exactly."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2261.78,"endTime":2264.72,"body":"Like, this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2261.78,"endTime":2264.72,"body":"douchebag gets his fancy lettuce"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2264.72,"endTime":2267.3,"body":"because his lawyer read a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2264.72,"endTime":2267.3,"body":"Wikipedia."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2267.33,"endTime":2268.92,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2267.33,"endTime":2268.92,"body":"exactly. He gets his- he gets"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2268.92,"endTime":2271.92,"body":"his fancy lettuce. And not only"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2268.92,"endTime":2271.92,"body":"that, he calls himself a shaman,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2272.13,"endTime":2275.67,"body":"but he's given a very Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2272.13,"endTime":2275.67,"body":"prayer, in the middle of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2275.67,"endTime":2277.29,"body":"thing and I'm just like shaman"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2275.67,"endTime":2277.29,"body":"my ass"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2277.32,"endTime":2278.16,"body":"Exactly!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2278.46,"endTime":2280.23,"body":"He's not a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2278.46,"endTime":2280.23,"body":"shaman, he's not a shaman, cuz"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2280.23,"endTime":2281.91,"body":"he would have been burned- he"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2280.23,"endTime":2281.91,"body":"had to at least burn some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2281.91,"endTime":2284.31,"body":"incense or something. He didn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2281.91,"endTime":2284.31,"body":"even do that. I mean, he's just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2284.31,"endTime":2288.75,"body":"funky, he'd not bathed in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2284.31,"endTime":2288.75,"body":"million years. And I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2288.75,"endTime":2291.21,"body":"but it was just like a- but it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2288.75,"endTime":2291.21,"body":"was- it was like to me that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2291.21,"endTime":2294.84,"body":"whole thing was like a Foreigner"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2291.21,"endTime":2294.84,"body":"song dirty- \"Dirty White Boy\" It"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2294.84,"endTime":2297.78,"body":"was just like, it was a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2294.84,"endTime":2297.78,"body":"like, dirty guys going in there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2297.84,"endTime":2300.42,"body":"and tearing up stuff and pissing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2297.84,"endTime":2300.42,"body":"and shitting all over"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2300.42,"endTime":2303.78,"body":"everything. And what makes me so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2300.42,"endTime":2303.78,"body":"angry about that is that it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2303.78,"endTime":2307.29,"body":"all supposed to be for God? And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2303.78,"endTime":2307.29,"body":"it's all supposed to be like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2307.29,"endTime":2309.96,"body":"you know, well, \"God called us"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2307.29,"endTime":2309.96,"body":"to do this, and God called us to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2309.96,"endTime":2314.19,"body":"do this-\" No, God didn't call"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2309.96,"endTime":2314.19,"body":"you be a complete jackass, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2314.19,"endTime":2317.49,"body":"decided to do that. Because you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2314.19,"endTime":2317.49,"body":"believed this guy, and I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2317.49,"endTime":2319.44,"body":"everybody's gonna be like going"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2317.49,"endTime":2319.44,"body":"\"I can't believe she's talking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2319.44,"endTime":2322.5,"body":"about this like this.\" Yes, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2319.44,"endTime":2322.5,"body":"am. Because it's part of what's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2322.5,"endTime":2324.75,"body":"happening with Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2322.5,"endTime":2324.75,"body":"nationalism right now, and you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2324.75,"endTime":2327.3,"body":"got a people- you got a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2324.75,"endTime":2327.3,"body":"people who barely know the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2327.3,"endTime":2330.63,"body":"Christian story, pretending to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2327.3,"endTime":2330.63,"body":"be Christians and acting as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2330.63,"endTime":2333.66,"body":"though that they understand what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2330.63,"endTime":2333.66,"body":"it is that God wants."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2334.95,"endTime":2336.81,"body":"Yeah. Ugh. So"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2334.95,"endTime":2336.81,"body":"gross."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2336.81,"endTime":2340.53,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2336.81,"endTime":2340.53,"body":"it's a- it's a soup, it's a soup"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2340.56,"endTime":2345.09,"body":"of like, toxic masculinity,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2340.56,"endTime":2345.09,"body":"racism, white supremacy,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2345.12,"endTime":2345.93,"body":"antisemitism,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2345.93,"endTime":2347.01,"body":"White Christian"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2345.93,"endTime":2347.01,"body":"nationalism..."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2347.0,"endTime":2349.49,"body":"White"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2347.0,"endTime":2349.49,"body":"Christian nationalism, and every"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2349.49,"endTime":2353.09,"body":"example that comes out of that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2349.49,"endTime":2353.09,"body":"insurrection is like, it's more,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2353.12,"endTime":2356.0,"body":"like you keep thinking \"oh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2353.12,"endTime":2356.0,"body":"we're at the bottom, this is the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2356.33,"endTime":2356.39,"body":"na-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2356.43,"endTime":2356.94,"body":"Nope, no."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2356.94,"endTime":2358.11,"body":"No,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2356.94,"endTime":2358.11,"body":"you're not. There's no bottom."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2358.11,"endTime":2359.94,"body":"There's no"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2358.11,"endTime":2359.94,"body":"bottom. There's no bottom,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2360.33,"endTime":2361.41,"body":"please don't think there's a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2360.33,"endTime":2361.41,"body":"bottom."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2362.88,"endTime":2364.62,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2362.88,"endTime":2364.62,"body":"it just every detail- every"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2364.62,"endTime":2367.77,"body":"detail you're like, oh my god"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2364.62,"endTime":2367.77,"body":"and now he's a shaman and now"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2367.77,"endTime":2371.55,"body":"this, and now that, and you're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2367.77,"endTime":2371.55,"body":"like Wow you couldn't... At some"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2371.55,"endTime":2375.06,"body":"point this would be stopped as a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2371.55,"endTime":2375.06,"body":"Hollywood script because no one"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2375.06,"endTime":2376.74,"body":"would, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2377.22,"endTime":2378.09,"body":"Nobody would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2377.22,"endTime":2378.09,"body":"believe it."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2378.09,"endTime":2379.35,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2378.09,"endTime":2379.35,"body":"too much, it's too much here,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2379.35,"endTime":2381.06,"body":"delete. You gotta edit. You"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2379.35,"endTime":2381.06,"body":"gotta edit."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2381.12,"endTime":2383.43,"body":"Right. Ilyse"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2381.12,"endTime":2383.43,"body":"would make me take that joke"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2383.43,"endTime":2388.74,"body":"out. The part that- one of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2383.43,"endTime":2388.74,"body":"18 trillion parts that makes me"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2388.74,"endTime":2394.23,"body":"insane, are we're so willing to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2388.74,"endTime":2394.23,"body":"run 18 different stories about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2394.23,"endTime":2396.63,"body":"this douchebag and his fancy"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2394.23,"endTime":2396.63,"body":"lettuce and his horns or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2396.63,"endTime":2400.59,"body":"whatever. Why are we not talking"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2396.63,"endTime":2400.59,"body":"about Ayanna Pressley's panic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2400.59,"endTime":2404.34,"body":"buttons more? Why did I see that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2400.59,"endTime":2404.34,"body":"once it got dropped? Like, AOC"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2404.34,"endTime":2407.43,"body":"did this amazing moment and that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2404.34,"endTime":2407.43,"body":"immediately got dropped? Sorry,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2407.55,"endTime":2410.46,"body":"we are- we have moved away from"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2407.55,"endTime":2410.46,"body":"the evangelicalism. But I-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2410.73,"endTime":2412.5,"body":"No, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2410.73,"endTime":2412.5,"body":"think there's a reason why they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2412.5,"endTime":2415.29,"body":"dropped it that's not away from"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2412.5,"endTime":2415.29,"body":"evangelicalism, it's actually"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2415.29,"endTime":2417.75,"body":"right square in the middle of it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2415.29,"endTime":2417.75,"body":"women's stories and women of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2417.75,"endTime":2420.18,"body":"color don't matter, white"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2417.75,"endTime":2420.18,"body":"people's stories do."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2421.47,"endTime":2421.77,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2421.77,"endTime":2424.74,"body":"Yup."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2421.77,"endTime":2424.74,"body":"And it's easy, I think, as an"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2424.77,"endTime":2429.3,"body":"Islamiscist for folks to be able"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2424.77,"endTime":2429.3,"body":"to say, \"that's not real"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2429.3,"endTime":2432.24,"body":"Christianity,\" so we don't have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2429.3,"endTime":2432.24,"body":"to view it in that way. We're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2432.24,"endTime":2435.66,"body":"not asking white Christians or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2432.24,"endTime":2435.66,"body":"white evangelical Christians to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2435.99,"endTime":2441.21,"body":"apologize or verify that they're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2435.99,"endTime":2441.21,"body":"not like this. Whereas there's a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2441.21,"endTime":2444.18,"body":"whole industry of Muslims, like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2441.21,"endTime":2444.18,"body":"truly like an industry of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2444.18,"endTime":2448.08,"body":"Muslims and Muslim publishing,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2444.18,"endTime":2448.08,"body":"and Muslim speaking tours of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2448.08,"endTime":2451.14,"body":"like, no, I swear, we're not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2448.08,"endTime":2451.14,"body":"Jihadis. No, I swear, we're not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2451.14,"endTime":2451.74,"body":"terrorists."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2451.77,"endTime":2454.35,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2451.77,"endTime":2454.35,"body":"And and I know, you saw the book"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2454.35,"endTime":2458.25,"body":"so you know I talk about that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2454.35,"endTime":2458.25,"body":"after 911 and everything and how"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2458.25,"endTime":2460.8,"body":"this whole thing comes up for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2458.25,"endTime":2460.8,"body":"evangelicals- so evangelicals"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2460.8,"endTime":2462.3,"body":"are responsible for that, too."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2462.36,"endTime":2462.6,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2462.36,"endTime":2462.6,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2462.6,"endTime":2462.78,"body":"Yes ma'am."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2462.81,"endTime":2465.24,"body":"I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2462.81,"endTime":2465.24,"body":"know, they've made that- that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2465.24,"endTime":2467.49,"body":"industry that you just talked"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2465.24,"endTime":2467.49,"body":"about a cottage industry,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2467.49,"endTime":2469.86,"body":"because they've got an industry"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2467.49,"endTime":2469.86,"body":"on the other side, saying, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2469.86,"endTime":2472.44,"body":"know, how we need to get into"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2469.86,"endTime":2472.44,"body":"10-40 window, how we need to do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2472.44,"endTime":2475.2,"body":"this, we need to do that. How we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2472.44,"endTime":2475.2,"body":"need to evangelize Muslims,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2475.2,"endTime":2477.03,"body":"because they're terrible"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2475.2,"endTime":2477.03,"body":"people... this is just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2477.03,"endTime":2477.84,"body":"ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2477.9,"endTime":2478.2,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2478.2,"endTime":2478.35,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2478.38,"endTime":2480.93,"body":"But nobody's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2478.38,"endTime":2480.93,"body":"releasing an \"iCondemn\" app for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2481.11,"endTime":2482.25,"body":"white evangelical Christians."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2482.28,"endTime":2482.85,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2483.03,"endTime":2483.39,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2483.54,"endTime":2485.82,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2483.54,"endTime":2485.82,"body":"don't have to. I mean, as your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2485.82,"endTime":2490.68,"body":"book really handily shows, it-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2485.82,"endTime":2490.68,"body":"you just- you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2490.68,"endTime":2495.78,"body":"because that whiteness is pri-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2490.68,"endTime":2495.78,"body":"is- is primary every minute of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2495.78,"endTime":2499.17,"body":"the day and then that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2495.78,"endTime":2499.17,"body":"Christianity piece offers"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2499.5,"endTime":2502.86,"body":"another like- I would say, like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2499.5,"endTime":2502.86,"body":"another pillar of protection"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2502.89,"endTime":2508.14,"body":"against that suspicion of- of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2502.89,"endTime":2508.14,"body":"not really being human, or not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2508.14,"endTime":2511.5,"body":"really being a citizen, or not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2508.14,"endTime":2511.5,"body":"really being equal in some way."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2511.5,"endTime":2511.56,"body":"Mhm."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2511.56,"endTime":2514.92,"body":"Right. So much so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2511.56,"endTime":2514.92,"body":"that I'm just gonna take a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2514.92,"endTime":2516.9,"body":"selfie while I'm literally"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2514.92,"endTime":2516.9,"body":"shitting in the Capitol"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2516.9,"endTime":2517.68,"body":"Building. Cool."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2517.71,"endTime":2519.21,"body":"Yeah, I know."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2517.71,"endTime":2519.21,"body":"I'm just gonna show it!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2519.66,"endTime":2521.79,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2519.66,"endTime":2521.79,"body":"so gross! There's just- as a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2521.82,"endTime":2525.42,"body":"19th century historian, but of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2521.82,"endTime":2525.42,"body":"imperialism, not in the US is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2525.42,"endTime":2527.85,"body":"like, you just have these"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2525.42,"endTime":2527.85,"body":"moments where all of these"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2527.85,"endTime":2530.58,"body":"authors in 19th century India"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2527.85,"endTime":2530.58,"body":"were like, these dudes keep"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2530.58,"endTime":2534.54,"body":"saying that we're not civilized,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2530.58,"endTime":2534.54,"body":"but they're really smelly, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2534.72,"endTime":2536.85,"body":"what's wrong- like, there's so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2534.72,"endTime":2536.85,"body":"much- what's wrong?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2537.36,"endTime":2538.05,"body":"They are."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2538.2,"endTime":2540.48,"body":"And I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2538.2,"endTime":2540.48,"body":"think of that every time folks"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2540.48,"endTime":2543.66,"body":"do these this like- truly"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2540.48,"endTime":2543.66,"body":"disgusting actions you're like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2544.02,"endTime":2547.74,"body":"how is this-? Okay. Sure. Cool"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2544.02,"endTime":2547.74,"body":"civilization. You've got a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2547.74,"endTime":2550.26,"body":"really, like, poop-filled"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2547.74,"endTime":2550.26,"body":"civilization."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2550.29,"endTime":2550.71,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2552.6,"endTime":2555.09,"body":"Yeah, no,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2552.6,"endTime":2555.09,"body":"it's true. It's true. It's true."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2555.6,"endTime":2560.07,"body":"Very professional"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2555.6,"endTime":2560.07,"body":"podcast, primary sources?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2560.73,"endTime":2562.92,"body":"Prim-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2560.73,"endTime":2562.92,"body":"let's- you've heard from us,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2562.92,"endTime":2565.74,"body":"let's hear about us. It's time"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2562.92,"endTime":2565.74,"body":"for PRIMARY SOURCES."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2567.73,"endTime":2569.05,"body":"Primary sources!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2567.73,"endTime":2569.05,"body":"[singing]"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2569.11,"endTime":2570.1,"body":"Good"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2569.11,"endTime":2570.1,"body":"work Megan."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2570.42,"endTime":2574.71,"body":"Primary sources"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2570.42,"endTime":2574.71,"body":"is a- Thank you! Primary sources"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2574.71,"endTime":2577.56,"body":"is a segment where we talk about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2574.71,"endTime":2577.56,"body":"the \"I\" in research because"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2577.56,"endTime":2580.56,"body":"positionality matters. So as a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2577.56,"endTime":2580.56,"body":"way to focus us in primary"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2580.56,"endTime":2585.33,"body":"sources Anthea, tell us please,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2580.56,"endTime":2585.33,"body":"why religion? Why this project,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2585.33,"endTime":2587.97,"body":"or these constellations of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2585.33,"endTime":2587.97,"body":"projects? Not just why it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2587.97,"endTime":2590.25,"body":"interesting, but where do you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2587.97,"endTime":2590.25,"body":"fit in the work?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2591.3,"endTime":2594.78,"body":"I think I fit"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2591.3,"endTime":2594.78,"body":"in because I've always been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2594.78,"endTime":2599.82,"body":"interested in people who wanted"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2594.78,"endTime":2599.82,"body":"to say no, and people who are,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2599.85,"endTime":2603.0,"body":"you know, hardcore against the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2599.85,"endTime":2603.0,"body":"culture or whatever. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2603.0,"endTime":2606.69,"body":"grew up Catholic. So you grow up"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2603.0,"endTime":2606.69,"body":"Catholic in a predominantly"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2606.69,"endTime":2610.29,"body":"Southern Baptist place, then you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2606.69,"endTime":2610.29,"body":"have a lot of thoughts about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2610.29,"endTime":2613.83,"body":"what people are doing and why,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2610.29,"endTime":2613.83,"body":"and why, you know, you outta"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2613.83,"endTime":2617.58,"body":"Mass in 45 minutes, and they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2613.83,"endTime":2617.58,"body":"not at the buffet as early as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2617.58,"endTime":2622.56,"body":"you are. So, I mean I think- to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2617.58,"endTime":2622.56,"body":"me, it's- it's that reason. It's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2622.56,"endTime":2625.65,"body":"like, I'm curious about them."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2622.56,"endTime":2625.65,"body":"I'm curious about why they're in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2625.65,"endTime":2628.68,"body":"opposition to the world and why"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2625.65,"endTime":2628.68,"body":"they're in opposition to certain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2628.68,"endTime":2631.98,"body":"things, while at the same time"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2628.68,"endTime":2631.98,"body":"being very hypocritical about it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2631.98,"endTime":2635.55,"body":"all, and taking and taking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2631.98,"endTime":2635.55,"body":"pieces about what they want. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2635.55,"endTime":2639.03,"body":"so I think that's my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2635.55,"endTime":2639.03,"body":"positionality to all that and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2639.03,"endTime":2642.63,"body":"having been in a- in a big"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2639.03,"endTime":2642.63,"body":"extended family that had, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2642.63,"endTime":2646.2,"body":"know, Christians and Catholics"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2642.63,"endTime":2646.2,"body":"and Jehovah Witnesses and- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2646.23,"endTime":2649.77,"body":"nothing's, you know, yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2646.23,"endTime":2649.77,"body":"mean, I think that's why I do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2649.77,"endTime":2653.4,"body":"what I do. I'm just interested"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2649.77,"endTime":2653.4,"body":"in why people are religious and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2653.4,"endTime":2656.46,"body":"what kinds of things it brings"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2653.4,"endTime":2656.46,"body":"to them and what kind of things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2656.46,"endTime":2659.58,"body":"that- what kind of havoc does it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2656.46,"endTime":2659.58,"body":"wreak, in a way? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2660.99,"endTime":2661.35,"body":"Great!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2661.77,"endTime":2662.28,"body":"I love"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2661.77,"endTime":2662.28,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2665.55,"endTime":2669.27,"body":"Well, don't pack up yet, nerds."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2665.55,"endTime":2669.27,"body":"You've got HOMEWORK!"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":2669.51,"endTime":2671.19,"body":"Homework, what"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":2669.51,"endTime":2671.19,"body":"homework?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2671.25,"endTime":2673.8,"body":"In our last"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2671.25,"endTime":2673.8,"body":"episode, we assigned so many"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2673.8,"endTime":2678.45,"body":"things, we- yeah, we have lots"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2673.8,"endTime":2678.45,"body":"to say. So we prepared you,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2678.45,"endTime":2683.64,"body":"hopefully, for our classroom"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2678.45,"endTime":2683.64,"body":"visit today. Obviously, your new"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2683.64,"endTime":2687.12,"body":"book is assigned and on the list"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2683.64,"endTime":2687.12,"body":"and in the show notes and linked"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2687.12,"endTime":2690.54,"body":"to everywhere we could link it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2687.12,"endTime":2690.54,"body":"But following Judith Weisenfeld"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2690.54,"endTime":2693.21,"body":"in Season Two, we have been"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2690.54,"endTime":2693.21,"body":"asking our guests this season,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2693.42,"endTime":2696.09,"body":"what you've written or what"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2693.42,"endTime":2696.09,"body":"you've made that you're most"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2696.09,"endTime":2699.96,"body":"proud of. So what are you most"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2696.09,"endTime":2699.96,"body":"proud of? You've done so, so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2699.96,"endTime":2703.08,"body":"much, but one or two things that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2699.96,"endTime":2703.08,"body":"you're really excited to have"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2703.08,"endTime":2703.83,"body":"out in the world."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2704.79,"endTime":2705.96,"body":"I think this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2704.79,"endTime":2705.96,"body":"book, yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2706.02,"endTime":2706.41,"body":"Yeah!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2706.56,"endTime":2710.22,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2706.56,"endTime":2710.22,"body":"so because it's important, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2710.22,"endTime":2713.85,"body":"it is timely. And I think that I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2710.22,"endTime":2713.85,"body":"hope that it's going to change"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2713.85,"endTime":2717.54,"body":"some people's thinking about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2713.85,"endTime":2717.54,"body":"this. So I think that is, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2717.54,"endTime":2721.92,"body":"um, I don't know, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2717.54,"endTime":2721.92,"body":"think, actually, though- I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2721.92,"endTime":2724.26,"body":"actually think that it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2721.92,"endTime":2724.26,"body":"something different. It's not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2724.26,"endTime":2726.78,"body":"what's out in the world yet. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2724.26,"endTime":2726.78,"body":"what might come out in the world"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2727.11,"endTime":2729.84,"body":"is the grant that we have,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2727.11,"endTime":2729.84,"body":"Judith and I have been talking a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2729.84,"endTime":2734.22,"body":"long time about what to do for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2729.84,"endTime":2734.22,"body":"Af-Am religious history. And so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2734.25,"endTime":2737.46,"body":"this is sort of a more of a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2734.25,"endTime":2737.46,"body":"promise about what we will be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2737.46,"endTime":2740.04,"body":"doing with that, you know, loose"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2737.46,"endTime":2740.04,"body":"money and the kinds of things we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2740.04,"endTime":2742.26,"body":"can do. So I think I'm really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2740.04,"endTime":2742.26,"body":"excited about that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2743.22,"endTime":2745.62,"body":"I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2743.22,"endTime":2745.62,"body":"us are really, really excited"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2745.62,"endTime":2748.41,"body":"about that/does this mean we're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2745.62,"endTime":2748.41,"body":"gonna get Lerone Martin on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2748.41,"endTime":2748.74,"body":"Twitter?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2749.86,"endTime":2750.55,"body":"Probably not."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2752.32,"endTime":2752.95,"body":"Damn it!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2753.25,"endTime":2755.89,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2753.25,"endTime":2755.89,"body":"that he's pretty much content to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2755.89,"endTime":2757.03,"body":"not be on Twitter."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2757.24,"endTime":2758.44,"body":"I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2757.24,"endTime":2758.44,"body":"fair, I guess."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2758.47,"endTime":2759.76,"body":"He"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2758.47,"endTime":2759.76,"body":"might be smarter than the rest"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2759.76,"endTime":2760.15,"body":"of us."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2760.3,"endTime":2763.06,"body":"He is, clearly!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2760.3,"endTime":2763.06,"body":"He is, I just- I think he's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2763.06,"endTime":2766.36,"body":"brilliant and also just a lovely"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2763.06,"endTime":2766.36,"body":"human. So I- I would enjoy"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2766.39,"endTime":2767.95,"body":"having more of him out in the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2766.39,"endTime":2767.95,"body":"world. But that's me being"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2767.95,"endTime":2769.66,"body":"selfish and probably"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2767.95,"endTime":2769.66,"body":"colonialist, so."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2769.72,"endTime":2772.12,"body":"Yeah, he's-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2769.72,"endTime":2772.12,"body":"yeah, he's good where he is, one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2772.12,"endTime":2773.8,"body":"of us has to not be on Twitter,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2772.12,"endTime":2773.8,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2774.25,"endTime":2774.76,"body":"That's fair,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2774.25,"endTime":2774.76,"body":"that's fair."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2774.76,"endTime":2775.75,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2774.76,"endTime":2775.75,"body":"think that's wise."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2775.75,"endTime":2777.91,"body":"No, I just- I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2775.75,"endTime":2777.91,"body":"just want to say, \"White"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2777.97,"endTime":2781.21,"body":"the Politics"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2777.97,"endTime":2781.21,"body":"of Morality in America,\" out"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2781.24,"endTime":2785.5,"body":"March 22, on the University of"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2781.24,"endTime":2785.5,"body":"North Carolina Press, please go"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2785.5,"endTime":2788.26,"body":"to their website and purchase"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2785.5,"endTime":2788.26,"body":"it, it would be great. I know"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2788.26,"endTime":2790.78,"body":"some of you like to go to Amazon"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2788.26,"endTime":2790.78,"body":"everything. But it'd be nice if"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2790.78,"endTime":2793.63,"body":"he went to UNC and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2790.78,"endTime":2793.63,"body":"actually purchase it from them."},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2794.08,"endTime":2797.2,"body":"And yeah, I'll be doing lots of"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2794.08,"endTime":2797.2,"body":"book talks and things. And so"},{"speaker":"Evangelical Racism","startTime":2797.41,"endTime":2798.19,"body":"stay tuned."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2798.4,"endTime":2800.95,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2798.4,"endTime":2800.95,"body":"And we always in our show notes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2800.95,"endTime":2803.86,"body":"link people to- directly to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2800.95,"endTime":2803.86,"body":"publishers, because we also do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2803.86,"endTime":2806.17,"body":"not want to give Bezos any more"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2803.86,"endTime":2806.17,"body":"of our money. But we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2806.68,"endTime":2809.89,"body":"additionally will update these"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2806.68,"endTime":2809.89,"body":"shownotes with things like links"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2809.89,"endTime":2813.55,"body":"to videos, links to talks that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2809.89,"endTime":2813.55,"body":"you're giving so that we-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2813.55,"endTime":2815.56,"body":"I can give"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2813.55,"endTime":2815.56,"body":"you a whole list of everything"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2815.56,"endTime":2817.45,"body":"of what I'm appearing in in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2815.56,"endTime":2817.45,"body":"next two months."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2817.48,"endTime":2818.14,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2817.48,"endTime":2818.14,"body":"amazing!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2818.14,"endTime":2819.7,"body":"So I can- I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2818.14,"endTime":2819.7,"body":"can send that to you."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2819.73,"endTime":2821.26,"body":"Because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2819.73,"endTime":2821.26,"body":"the way we use our show notes,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2821.26,"endTime":2824.68,"body":"if you didn't know already, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2821.26,"endTime":2824.68,"body":"this is a reminder for our"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2824.68,"endTime":2827.95,"body":"listeners, is that these are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2824.68,"endTime":2827.95,"body":"classroom companions. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2827.98,"endTime":2830.29,"body":"basically, the way folks are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2827.98,"endTime":2830.29,"body":"using it is they'll assign a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2830.29,"endTime":2833.26,"body":"podcast, and then they'll get"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2830.29,"endTime":2833.26,"body":"their classroom assignments from"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2833.26,"endTime":2836.74,"body":"the show notes. So we're just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2833.26,"endTime":2836.74,"body":"going to plug you even more than"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2836.74,"endTime":2839.53,"body":"we could possibly imagine"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2836.74,"endTime":2839.53,"body":"because you've more than earned"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2839.53,"endTime":2839.71,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2842.0,"endTime":2844.28,"body":"And I should"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2842.0,"endTime":2844.28,"body":"say at the end too, that there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2844.28,"endTime":2847.49,"body":"one more thing I do have that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2844.28,"endTime":2847.49,"body":"I've only sent out one so far."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2847.7,"endTime":2851.87,"body":"But I'll be doing it again, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2847.7,"endTime":2851.87,"body":"have a Religion, News and Notes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2851.9,"endTime":2855.47,"body":"that comes out of Twitter, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2851.9,"endTime":2855.47,"body":"it's kind of like a- I would say"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2855.47,"endTime":2858.26,"body":"maybe a little update of kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2855.47,"endTime":2858.26,"body":"a thing that I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2858.26,"endTime":2861.65,"body":"doing that'll tell you where I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2858.26,"endTime":2861.65,"body":"at, and religion, news and notes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2861.65,"endTime":2864.32,"body":"or where I think there's a good"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2861.65,"endTime":2864.32,"body":"story that comes out that people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2864.32,"endTime":2866.63,"body":"need to see. So I'll be putting"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2864.32,"endTime":2866.63,"body":"another one of those out"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2866.84,"endTime":2869.33,"body":"probably later this week. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2866.84,"endTime":2869.33,"body":"they'll start to be more on a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2869.33,"endTime":2872.81,"body":"regular basis. So you can sign"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2869.33,"endTime":2872.81,"body":"up for that too. And I'll give"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2872.81,"endTime":2874.1,"body":"you all the links. So you can do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2872.81,"endTime":2874.1,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2874.96,"endTime":2876.7,"body":"Wait, so did you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2874.96,"endTime":2876.7,"body":"start a sub stack? Is that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2876.7,"endTime":2877.24,"body":"what's happening?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2877.33,"endTime":2878.89,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2877.33,"endTime":2878.89,"body":"it's- kind of like a sub stack."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2878.89,"endTime":2882.1,"body":"It's by review. It's something"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2878.89,"endTime":2882.1,"body":"that's actually connected to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2882.1,"endTime":2885.22,"body":"Twitter. And when I post up a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2882.1,"endTime":2885.22,"body":"news- when I post up a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2885.22,"endTime":2888.4,"body":"newsletter, it posts to Twitter,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2885.22,"endTime":2888.4,"body":"and you can sign up you can sign"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2888.4,"endTime":2888.91,"body":"up for it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2889.69,"endTime":2891.16,"body":"Alright, once"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2889.69,"endTime":2891.16,"body":"again, cutting edge. I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2891.16,"endTime":2892.27,"body":"have to look into this. Thank"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2891.16,"endTime":2892.27,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2892.45,"endTime":2894.52,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2892.45,"endTime":2894.52,"body":"know. I know, people are doing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2894.52,"endTime":2896.83,"body":"substack. But I got really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2894.52,"endTime":2896.83,"body":"interested in this because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2897.01,"endTime":2899.98,"body":"Twitter just actually bought"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2897.01,"endTime":2899.98,"body":"them. And it's something that-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2900.16,"endTime":2903.34,"body":"it's something that people have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2900.16,"endTime":2903.34,"body":"been using overseas. So I've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2903.34,"endTime":2905.86,"body":"been thinking, I was like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2903.34,"endTime":2905.86,"body":"why aren't we using this in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2905.86,"endTime":2907.75,"body":"States? I should use this. So."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2907.75,"endTime":2907.84,"body":"Cool!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Anthea Butler","startTime":2907.87,"endTime":2908.32,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2909.02,"endTime":2911.57,"body":"All"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2909.02,"endTime":2911.57,"body":"right. Well, we are so honored"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2911.57,"endTime":2913.97,"body":"that you took the time out of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2911.57,"endTime":2913.97,"body":"your day to be with us. We can't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2913.97,"endTime":2918.53,"body":"thank you enough. And I'm going"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2913.97,"endTime":2918.53,"body":"to do our a wrap up. As a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2918.53,"endTime":2921.68,"body":"reminder, a summary, links to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2918.53,"endTime":2921.68,"body":"citations and references and all"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2921.68,"endTime":2924.77,"body":"the important transcripts stuff"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2921.68,"endTime":2924.77,"body":"can be found on the show notes"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2924.77,"endTime":2928.22,"body":"at keepingit101.com. Shout out,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2924.77,"endTime":2928.22,"body":"as always, to our awesome"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2928.22,"endTime":2930.89,"body":"research assistant, Katherine"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2928.22,"endTime":2930.89,"body":"Brennan, whose transcription"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2930.89,"endTime":2934.4,"body":"work makes this pod accessible,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2930.89,"endTime":2934.4,"body":"and therefore awesome. If you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2934.4,"endTime":2938.03,"body":"need to find more of any of us"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2934.4,"endTime":2938.03,"body":"find us on Twitter."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2940.46,"endTime":2945.41,"body":"Yeah, true story."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2940.46,"endTime":2945.41,"body":"You can find me Megan @mpgPhD"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2945.44,"endTime":2952.79,"body":"and Ilyse @profirmf or the show"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2945.44,"endTime":2952.79,"body":"@keepingit_101 . Find Dr. Butler"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2953.18,"endTime":2961.7,"body":"@Antheabutler . Find the pod"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2953.18,"endTime":2961.7,"body":"website at keepingit101.com and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2961.7,"endTime":2964.31,"body":"please and thank you drop us a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2961.7,"endTime":2964.31,"body":"rating or review in your pod"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2964.31,"endTime":2966.71,"body":"catcher of choice. And with"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2964.31,"endTime":2966.71,"body":"that-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2966.95,"endTime":2968.09,"body":"Peace"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2966.95,"endTime":2968.09,"body":"out, nerds."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2968.6,"endTime":2970.46,"body":"And do your"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2968.6,"endTime":2970.46,"body":"homework! It's on the syllabus."},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2988.0,"endTime":2990.19,"body":"You people like to"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2988.0,"endTime":2990.19,"body":"fight each other and to be"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2990.19,"endTime":2992.71,"body":"honest, no person really"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2990.19,"endTime":2992.71,"body":"understands why."},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2992.36,"endTime":2996.92,"body":"Well, actually a political"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2992.36,"endTime":2996.92,"body":"element too, Katya, and there's"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2996.92,"endTime":2997.94,"body":"a religious element."},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2998.33,"endTime":2999.98,"body":"You're not two different"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2998.33,"endTime":2999.98,"body":"religions, here, you're"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2999.98,"endTime":3001.96,"body":"different flavors of the same"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":2999.98,"endTime":3001.96,"body":"religion, no?"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":3003.16,"endTime":3007.81,"body":"Well, yes- but it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":3003.16,"endTime":3007.81,"body":"more complicated than that,"},{"speaker":"Derry Girls","startTime":3007.81,"endTime":3008.11,"body":"Katya."}]}