{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":17.64,"endTime":19.71,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":17.64,"endTime":19.71,"body":"is Keeping It 101: a killjoy's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":19.71,"endTime":22.56,"body":"introduction to religion"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":19.71,"endTime":22.56,"body":"podcast. This season our work is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":22.56,"endTime":24.96,"body":"made possible in part through a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":22.56,"endTime":24.96,"body":"generous grant from the New"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":24.96,"endTime":27.81,"body":"England Humanities Consortium,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":24.96,"endTime":27.81,"body":"and with additional support from"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":27.81,"endTime":30.84,"body":"the University of Vermont's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":27.81,"endTime":30.84,"body":"Humanities Center. We are"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":30.84,"endTime":34.14,"body":"grateful to live, teach, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":30.84,"endTime":34.14,"body":"record on the ancestral and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":34.14,"endTime":38.04,"body":"unseeded lands of the Abenaki,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":34.14,"endTime":38.04,"body":"Wabenaki, and Aucocisco peoples"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":38.22,"endTime":40.23,"body":"and our guest is coming to us"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":38.22,"endTime":40.23,"body":"from the lands of the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":40.23,"endTime":41.43,"body":"Tutelo/Monacan."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":42.14,"endTime":45.8,"body":"What's up, nerds?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":42.14,"endTime":45.8,"body":"Hi, hello, I'm Megan Goodwin, a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":45.8,"endTime":48.77,"body":"scholar of American religions,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":45.8,"endTime":48.77,"body":"race, and gender. And this"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":48.77,"endTime":51.38,"body":"episode arrives precisely when"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":48.77,"endTime":51.38,"body":"it means to."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":51.95,"endTime":53.63,"body":"Hi,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":51.95,"endTime":53.63,"body":"hello, I'm Ilyse Morgenstein"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":53.63,"endTime":56.36,"body":"Fuerst, a scholar of religi"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":53.63,"endTime":56.36,"body":"n, Islam, race and racializati"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":56.36,"endTime":58.61,"body":"n, and history and it's leviOH"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":56.36,"endTime":58.61,"body":"a, not levioS"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":58.0,"endTime":66.13,"body":"I like- I like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":58.0,"endTime":66.13,"body":"this so much. Like, A) because"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":66.13,"endTime":69.94,"body":"just straight dork. Dork life,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":66.13,"endTime":69.94,"body":"but also because you hate all of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":69.94,"endTime":72.52,"body":"these movies. You don't hate the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":69.94,"endTime":72.52,"body":"Harry Potter but you hated the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":72.52,"endTime":75.07,"body":"Lord of the Rings so much. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":72.52,"endTime":75.07,"body":"so I really like- I deeply"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":75.07,"endTime":78.43,"body":"appreciate you leaning into the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":75.07,"endTime":78.43,"body":"wizard jokes, just to annoy our"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":78.43,"endTime":81.82,"body":"guest the one, the only Doctor"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":78.43,"endTime":81.82,"body":"Shaily Patel."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":81.91,"endTime":82.75,"body":"Hi."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":83.02,"endTime":87.25,"body":"Hello,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":83.02,"endTime":87.25,"body":"Dr. Patel. Before we get into"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":87.25,"endTime":90.82,"body":"it, would you prefer that we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":87.25,"endTime":90.82,"body":"call you Shaily or Dr. Patel for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":90.82,"endTime":91.81,"body":"our episode today?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":92.25,"endTime":93.27,"body":"Please call me"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":92.25,"endTime":93.27,"body":"Shaily."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":93.84,"endTime":95.31,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":93.84,"endTime":95.31,"body":"got it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":95.91,"endTime":96.66,"body":"Thanks!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":96.99,"endTime":100.26,"body":"Okay, we need to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":96.99,"endTime":100.26,"body":"introduce you formally since as"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":100.26,"endTime":101.91,"body":"we've discussed, we are formal"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":100.26,"endTime":101.91,"body":"bitches."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":101.97,"endTime":103.08,"body":"We are so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":101.97,"endTime":103.08,"body":"formal."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":104.08,"endTime":106.75,"body":"Dr. Shaily Patel"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":104.08,"endTime":106.75,"body":"is Assistant Professor of Early"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":106.75,"endTime":109.36,"body":"Christianity in the department"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":106.75,"endTime":109.36,"body":"of religion and culture at"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":109.36,"endTime":112.21,"body":"Virginia Tech. And if you know"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":109.36,"endTime":112.21,"body":"anything about Virginia Tech,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":112.21,"endTime":114.52,"body":"you know that is a very"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":112.21,"endTime":114.52,"body":"impressive department to be a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":114.52,"endTime":118.27,"body":"member of. Dr. Patel's research"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":114.52,"endTime":118.27,"body":"explores the ways in which magic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":118.27,"endTime":121.12,"body":"was used to advance a number of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":118.27,"endTime":121.12,"body":"theological ends and early"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":121.12,"endTime":124.63,"body":"Christian texts. Her first book,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":121.12,"endTime":124.63,"body":"\"Peter the Magician,\" already-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":124.66,"endTime":126.55,"body":"like, I'm already reading that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":124.66,"endTime":126.55,"body":"and I don't even care about the"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":126.55,"endTime":130.09,"body":"Discourses of Magic in Early"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":130.09,"endTime":133.57,"body":"Petrine Traditions\" is all about"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":130.09,"endTime":133.57,"body":"how magic was used- and not just"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":133.57,"endTime":137.32,"body":"how we think- by early Christian"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":133.57,"endTime":137.32,"body":"thinkers across texts. We have"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":137.32,"endTime":140.08,"body":"Dr. Patel on because she teaches"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":137.32,"endTime":140.08,"body":"courses in New Testament,"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":140.29,"endTime":142.99,"body":"Christian apocryphal texts,"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":140.29,"endTime":142.99,"body":"orthodoxy and heresy, and"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":142.99,"endTime":146.47,"body":"demonology and exorcism. And"},{"speaker":"Bible, \"Peter the Magician","startTime":142.99,"endTime":146.47,"body":"that all sounds deeply rad."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":146.65,"endTime":148.21,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":146.65,"endTime":148.21,"body":"rad. So rad! Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":148.21,"endTime":148.84,"body":"I'm so stoked."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":148.26,"endTime":151.11,"body":"It's prett"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":148.26,"endTime":151.11,"body":"rad, no lie."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":150.94,"endTime":153.67,"body":"No, for real. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":150.94,"endTime":153.67,"body":"it's super different from what"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":153.67,"endTime":156.7,"body":"we usually do out here in these"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":153.67,"endTime":156.7,"body":"academic streets."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":157.12,"endTime":160.15,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":157.12,"endTime":160.15,"body":"we're- we're thrilled that she's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":160.15,"endTime":164.17,"body":"here, that you're here, not just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":160.15,"endTime":164.17,"body":"because she's a grad bud of both"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":164.17,"endTime":168.13,"body":"of us, but truly, because she's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":164.17,"endTime":168.13,"body":"a scholar, theorist, fellow"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":168.13,"endTime":172.15,"body":"nerd, whose expertise really is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":168.13,"endTime":172.15,"body":"beyond both of what Megan and I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":172.15,"endTime":176.65,"body":"can- can get done. So I am"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":172.15,"endTime":176.65,"body":"excited to get my ass handed to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":176.65,"endTime":180.82,"body":"me today. I- like, take me to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":176.65,"endTime":180.82,"body":"school. Take me to wizard"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":180.82,"endTime":181.48,"body":"school."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":183.07,"endTime":184.24,"body":"You're a wizard,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":183.07,"endTime":184.24,"body":"Shaily."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":184.66,"endTime":187.0,"body":"Am I? Well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":184.66,"endTime":187.0,"body":"I'm just- I'm so happy to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":187.0,"endTime":189.85,"body":"here. Thank you all for having"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":187.0,"endTime":189.85,"body":"me. I really appreciate being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":189.85,"endTime":191.2,"body":"able to talk about my work with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":189.85,"endTime":191.2,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":191.56,"endTime":191.95,"body":"Yay."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":195.95,"endTime":200.18,"body":"Let's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":195.95,"endTime":200.18,"body":"jump in to the 101: ON TODAY."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":201.08,"endTime":203.03,"body":"The segment where we do"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":201.08,"endTime":203.03,"body":"Professor-work."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":203.81,"endTime":204.29,"body":"Yes!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":206.85,"endTime":209.25,"body":"Alright,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":206.85,"endTime":209.25,"body":"Shaily. So we're asking everyone"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":209.28,"endTime":213.72,"body":"this question this season, What"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":209.28,"endTime":213.72,"body":"is the most basic, most"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":213.72,"endTime":216.51,"body":"important takeaway that you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":213.72,"endTime":216.51,"body":"would want our listeners to know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":216.51,"endTime":220.89,"body":"about the work that you do? So I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":216.51,"endTime":220.89,"body":"guess, what's the 101 about-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":221.16,"endTime":222.48,"body":"about your research?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":223.62,"endTime":225.78,"body":"I think the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":223.62,"endTime":225.78,"body":"most important thing that I'd"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":225.81,"endTime":228.99,"body":"want people to know about magic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":225.81,"endTime":228.99,"body":"is basically what you guys have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":228.99,"endTime":233.22,"body":"been doing, um, all throughout"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":228.99,"endTime":233.22,"body":"the podcast, right? When you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":233.22,"endTime":237.54,"body":"talk about religion, that is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":233.22,"endTime":237.54,"body":"that, magic as a concept, it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":237.54,"endTime":242.19,"body":"does work. And it does all sorts"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":237.54,"endTime":242.19,"body":"of work from delegitimizing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":242.22,"endTime":245.73,"body":"other's traditions, to serving"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":242.22,"endTime":245.73,"body":"as a means of resisting"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":245.73,"endTime":249.09,"body":"Christian supremacy even. I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":245.73,"endTime":249.09,"body":"think scholars sometimes focus"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":249.09,"endTime":252.81,"body":"on the this first kind of work"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":249.09,"endTime":252.81,"body":"that I mentioned, delegitimizing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":252.81,"endTime":256.47,"body":"other's traditions as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":252.81,"endTime":256.47,"body":"superstitious or backwards."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":257.25,"endTime":260.67,"body":"Usually, when folks call a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":257.25,"endTime":260.67,"body":"practice magical, they're saying"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":260.67,"endTime":264.66,"body":"it's not religious, and here"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":260.67,"endTime":264.66,"body":"religious almost always means a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":264.66,"endTime":267.84,"body":"kind of Western Protestant"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":264.66,"endTime":267.84,"body":"Christianity, and we can get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":267.84,"endTime":268.38,"body":"into that-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":268.68,"endTime":270.39,"body":"Wait! Wait, wait"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":268.68,"endTime":270.39,"body":"Shaily, sorry- I'm sorry to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":270.39,"endTime":271.8,"body":"interrupt, but I'm excited. And-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":271.89,"endTime":272.19,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":272.22,"endTime":274.29,"body":"You've met me."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":272.22,"endTime":274.29,"body":"Wait, does \"magic\" work like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":274.29,"endTime":276.87,"body":"\"cult\" works? Where it's just,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":274.29,"endTime":276.87,"body":"like, this is shit I don't like?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":277.41,"endTime":279.51,"body":"Sometimes it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":277.41,"endTime":279.51,"body":"does, yeah, right? Like this is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":279.51,"endTime":281.94,"body":"shit I don't like, or these are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":279.51,"endTime":281.94,"body":"practices that-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":281.94,"endTime":283.14,"body":"Or these are fake"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":281.94,"endTime":283.14,"body":"or like..."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":283.84,"endTime":285.79,"body":"Yeah, these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":283.84,"endTime":285.79,"body":"are practices that I don't like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":285.79,"endTime":289.57,"body":"or these are practices that are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":285.79,"endTime":289.57,"body":"not \"Christian\" or, \"religious,\""},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":290.02,"endTime":293.98,"body":"right? As you guys have been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":290.02,"endTime":293.98,"body":"talking about, like, religion"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":293.98,"endTime":297.52,"body":"and Christianity, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":293.98,"endTime":297.52,"body":"people tend to use the two"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":297.52,"endTime":304.42,"body":"interchangeably with... Right..."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":297.52,"endTime":304.42,"body":"So magic can work in the same"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":304.42,"endTime":308.59,"body":"way, but magic can do other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":304.42,"endTime":308.59,"body":"things, too. It's a means of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":308.59,"endTime":312.1,"body":"harnessing ritual power, a way"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":308.59,"endTime":312.1,"body":"of embodying knowledge of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":312.1,"endTime":316.21,"body":"gods. It's a series of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":312.1,"endTime":316.21,"body":"strategies for managing a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":316.24,"endTime":321.52,"body":"crapsack world, so magic isn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":316.24,"endTime":321.52,"body":"just, like, what you call others"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":321.52,"endTime":324.55,"body":"practices when you don't like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":321.52,"endTime":324.55,"body":"them. It's also about the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":324.55,"endTime":328.66,"body":"practices themselves, and how"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":324.55,"endTime":328.66,"body":"those practices function. And of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":328.66,"endTime":332.05,"body":"course, in all of this, like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":328.66,"endTime":332.05,"body":"there are stakes, right, so we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":332.05,"endTime":332.86,"body":"can talk about those."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":333.13,"endTime":335.98,"body":"Yes, yes, it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":333.13,"endTime":335.98,"body":"sounds like- So it sounds like a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":335.98,"endTime":338.38,"body":"little bit it works like \"cult\""},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":335.98,"endTime":338.38,"body":"if you're doing it from the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":338.38,"endTime":340.45,"body":"outside, but from the inside, it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":338.38,"endTime":340.45,"body":"sounds like you're really"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":340.45,"endTime":343.93,"body":"arguing for us to take that-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":340.45,"endTime":343.93,"body":"those practices seriously."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":345.04,"endTime":347.32,"body":"Yeah, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":345.04,"endTime":347.32,"body":"my work is that, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":347.35,"endTime":350.05,"body":"let's take these practices"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":347.35,"endTime":350.05,"body":"seriously, right? Because we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":350.05,"endTime":355.99,"body":"know that the delegitimizing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":350.05,"endTime":355.99,"body":"function of magic is the thing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":355.99,"endTime":359.02,"body":"that we've studied. And we know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":355.99,"endTime":359.02,"body":"that when you call somebody"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":359.02,"endTime":362.92,"body":"else's practices \"magical\" you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":359.02,"endTime":362.92,"body":"are, in fact, saying, \"well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":362.95,"endTime":367.15,"body":"they're not religious,\" right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":362.95,"endTime":367.15,"body":"So I do work with this magic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":367.15,"endTime":370.69,"body":"religion binary in the modern"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":367.15,"endTime":370.69,"body":"world, but a lot of my work is-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":370.72,"endTime":373.87,"body":"is looking at the practices"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":370.72,"endTime":373.87,"body":"themselves and saying, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":373.87,"endTime":378.13,"body":"practices have functions too,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":373.87,"endTime":378.13,"body":"right? Like, it's not just the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":378.13,"endTime":382.3,"body":"concept of magic, or the charge"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":378.13,"endTime":382.3,"body":"of magic that does work,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":382.57,"endTime":385.96,"body":"practices themselves do a kind"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":382.57,"endTime":385.96,"body":"of work. And so I'm really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":385.96,"endTime":389.17,"body":"advocating for taking practices"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":385.96,"endTime":389.17,"body":"seriously and trying to lay out"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":389.17,"endTime":391.0,"body":"the stakes of what those"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":389.17,"endTime":391.0,"body":"practices can do."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":391.3,"endTime":394.84,"body":"It"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":391.3,"endTime":394.84,"body":"sounds like that what you're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":394.84,"endTime":397.96,"body":"saying, Shaily, is both that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":394.84,"endTime":397.96,"body":"magic can be religion, and that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":397.96,"endTime":399.97,"body":"magic and religion is what"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":397.96,"endTime":399.97,"body":"people do."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":400.65,"endTime":404.16,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":400.65,"endTime":404.16,"body":"Yes. See? Religion is what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":404.16,"endTime":408.24,"body":"people do, and magic is also"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":404.16,"endTime":408.24,"body":"what people do, right? You can't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":408.24,"endTime":412.23,"body":"reduce it to just the the charge"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":408.24,"endTime":412.23,"body":"of magic or the accusation of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":412.23,"endTime":412.83,"body":"magic."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":413.16,"endTime":415.23,"body":"Oh, oh, okay. I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":413.16,"endTime":415.23,"body":"want to talk about that more,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":415.23,"endTime":418.53,"body":"but it is time for GETTING TO"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":415.23,"endTime":418.53,"body":"KNOW YOU."},{"speaker":"The King and I","startTime":418.8,"endTime":424.41,"body":"Getting to know"},{"speaker":"The King and I","startTime":418.8,"endTime":424.41,"body":"you, getting to know all about"},{"speaker":"The King and I","startTime":424.44,"endTime":425.52,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":426.75,"endTime":429.0,"body":"Please tell us,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":426.75,"endTime":429.0,"body":"and also our nerds, what's at"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":429.0,"endTime":432.09,"body":"stake in your project? Why is it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":429.0,"endTime":432.09,"body":"important beyond the work that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":432.09,"endTime":432.66,"body":"you're doing?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":433.38,"endTime":436.23,"body":"So I think the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":433.38,"endTime":436.23,"body":"stakes are about Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":436.26,"endTime":439.08,"body":"exceptionalism, if I can call it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":436.26,"endTime":439.08,"body":"that-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":439.29,"endTime":440.13,"body":"Yes, please do!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":440.43,"endTime":443.22,"body":"Which"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":440.43,"endTime":443.22,"body":"sometimes leads to Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":443.22,"endTime":446.46,"body":"supremacy, which is a whole"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":443.22,"endTime":446.46,"body":"nother kettle of fish-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":446.61,"endTime":448.59,"body":"Can we- can we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":446.61,"endTime":448.59,"body":"pause and do a 101 moment?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":449.22,"endTime":449.58,"body":"Yes, sure."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":449.58,"endTime":451.83,"body":"Could you offer"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":449.58,"endTime":451.83,"body":"us working definitions of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":451.83,"endTime":454.38,"body":"Christian exceptionalism and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":451.83,"endTime":454.38,"body":"Christian supremacy?"},{"speaker":"Detox","startTime":454.77,"endTime":456.69,"body":"It's our secret word of"},{"speaker":"Detox","startTime":454.77,"endTime":456.69,"body":"the day."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":457.62,"endTime":459.99,"body":"Sure. So what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":457.62,"endTime":459.99,"body":"I mean when I say Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":459.99,"endTime":466.17,"body":"exceptionalism is this idea that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":459.99,"endTime":466.17,"body":"Christianity is somehow special,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":466.17,"endTime":469.8,"body":"or elevated beyond other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":466.17,"endTime":469.8,"body":"traditions that we would term"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":469.83,"endTime":473.64,"body":"religions, right? So there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":469.83,"endTime":473.64,"body":"something exceptional about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":473.64,"endTime":477.36,"body":"Christianity. Something beyond"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":473.64,"endTime":477.36,"body":"let's say, you know, Hinduism or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":477.36,"endTime":479.79,"body":"Buddhism, or what have you."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":478.92,"endTime":481.23,"body":"So like, God"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":478.92,"endTime":481.23,"body":"picked Christians, and God likes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":479.75,"endTime":492.17,"body":"Oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":479.75,"endTime":492.17,"body":"good, why didn't I think of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":481.23,"endTime":485.16,"body":"Christians best, Christians are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":481.23,"endTime":485.16,"body":"elect even? Which is why my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":485.16,"endTime":491.01,"body":"religion and politics is calle"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":485.16,"endTime":491.01,"body":"\"Election\" womp womp womp."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":492.17,"endTime":493.37,"body":"that? That's fantastic."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":493.43,"endTime":495.02,"body":"I know, it makes"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":493.43,"endTime":495.02,"body":"me giggle every time. Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":495.02,"endTime":497.54,"body":"we talked about Christian"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":495.02,"endTime":497.54,"body":"exceptionalism. And you said"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":497.54,"endTime":499.94,"body":"sometimes it can lead to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":497.54,"endTime":499.94,"body":"Christian supremacy."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":500.8,"endTime":503.35,"body":"Right. So the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":500.8,"endTime":503.35,"body":"Christian exceptionalism, this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":503.35,"endTime":507.28,"body":"notion that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":503.35,"endTime":507.28,"body":"Christianity is somehow special"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":507.28,"endTime":511.12,"body":"or elevated beyond other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":507.28,"endTime":511.12,"body":"religious traditions, can lead"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":511.12,"endTime":517.51,"body":"to the idea that Christians"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":511.12,"endTime":517.51,"body":"should be special, should be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":517.51,"endTime":522.07,"body":"elevated beyond other religious"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":517.51,"endTime":522.07,"body":"traditions, and should, in fact,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":522.07,"endTime":526.24,"body":"work to ensure that they are the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":522.07,"endTime":526.24,"body":"dominant religious tradition."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":526.6,"endTime":529.87,"body":"And so that's what I tend to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":526.6,"endTime":529.87,"body":"think of when I say something"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":529.87,"endTime":531.16,"body":"like Christian supremacy."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":531.22,"endTime":533.32,"body":"Does that have"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":531.22,"endTime":533.32,"body":"consequences- thinking that your"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":533.32,"endTime":536.14,"body":"religion is more important and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":533.32,"endTime":536.14,"body":"better and God likes you best?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":536.59,"endTime":542.23,"body":"I mean, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":536.59,"endTime":542.23,"body":"Sorry, like, my mind just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":542.26,"endTime":546.46,"body":"flashed back to pictures of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":542.26,"endTime":546.46,"body":"insurrection at the Capitol"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":546.46,"endTime":551.5,"body":"yesterday. And all of those"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":546.46,"endTime":551.5,"body":"\"Jesus Saves\" flags or like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":551.5,"endTime":556.72,"body":"people erecting crosses on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":551.5,"endTime":556.72,"body":"Capitol grounds. And so yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":556.72,"endTime":559.75,"body":"Christian supremacy has huge"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":556.72,"endTime":559.75,"body":"consequences, right?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":560.11,"endTime":561.49,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":560.11,"endTime":561.49,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":561.82,"endTime":562.93,"body":"Massive"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":561.82,"endTime":562.93,"body":"consequences."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":562.99,"endTime":564.07,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":562.99,"endTime":564.07,"body":"uh huh."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":564.07,"endTime":565.81,"body":"That sounds like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":564.07,"endTime":565.81,"body":"your work is super important"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":565.81,"endTime":565.93,"body":"then."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":567.34,"endTime":569.71,"body":"I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":567.34,"endTime":569.71,"body":"would like to think so, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":570.1,"endTime":572.95,"body":"You know, in my New Testament"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":570.1,"endTime":572.95,"body":"class, I always ask my students"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":572.98,"endTime":578.08,"body":"to talk or to prove why they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":572.98,"endTime":578.08,"body":"think Jesus is God in a text"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":578.29,"endTime":582.16,"body":"like Mark's gospel, because,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":578.29,"endTime":582.16,"body":"y'all, Jesus is not God and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":582.16,"endTime":583.12,"body":"Mark's gospel."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":585.25,"endTime":587.02,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":585.25,"endTime":587.02,"body":"don't really- I don't actually"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":587.02,"endTime":589.96,"body":"know that- you are- Megan's fake"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":587.02,"endTime":589.96,"body":"gasping but I actually don't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":589.96,"endTime":590.83,"body":"know that. Is that true?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":591.31,"endTime":594.94,"body":"That is true."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":591.31,"endTime":594.94,"body":"Um, yeah, Jesus is not God in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":594.94,"endTime":597.43,"body":"Mark's gospel. I mean, there-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":594.94,"endTime":597.43,"body":"there are people who are going"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":597.43,"endTime":598.96,"body":"to disagree with me, obviously."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":599.14,"endTime":600.49,"body":"Sure,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":599.14,"endTime":600.49,"body":"but I believe you the most..."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":600.52,"endTime":601.0,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":601.03,"endTime":603.82,"body":"Yeah, if you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":601.03,"endTime":603.82,"body":"believe me the most. I would say"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":603.82,"endTime":607.33,"body":"most critical scholars don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":603.82,"endTime":607.33,"body":"think that Jesus is God in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":607.33,"endTime":608.44,"body":"Mark's Gospel."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":609.28,"endTime":611.32,"body":"So when people"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":609.28,"endTime":611.32,"body":"read the Bible, they go back and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":611.32,"endTime":614.02,"body":"decide what it means after it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":611.32,"endTime":614.02,"body":"been written and, like, impose"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":614.02,"endTime":616.63,"body":"meanings on it that maybe"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":614.02,"endTime":616.63,"body":"weren't intended in the text"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":616.63,"endTime":617.14,"body":"originally?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":618.22,"endTime":620.44,"body":"They do that I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":618.22,"endTime":620.44,"body":"do sometimes think that they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":620.83,"endTime":625.06,"body":"read texts together. And this is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":620.83,"endTime":625.06,"body":"what it can and does, right? So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":625.06,"endTime":625.48,"body":"like-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":625.69,"endTime":627.94,"body":"Wait pause,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":625.69,"endTime":627.94,"body":"sorry, what's a Canon?"},{"speaker":"Detox","startTime":628.27,"endTime":630.19,"body":"It's our secret word of"},{"speaker":"Detox","startTime":628.27,"endTime":630.19,"body":"the day."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":631.32,"endTime":636.03,"body":"A canon is a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":631.32,"endTime":636.03,"body":"set of authoritative texts for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":636.03,"endTime":638.76,"body":"any given tradition, right? So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":636.03,"endTime":638.76,"body":"the New Testament is the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":638.76,"endTime":644.82,"body":"Christian canon. I think people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":638.76,"endTime":644.82,"body":"read, you know, a Canon"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":644.85,"endTime":648.75,"body":"together, right? So they'll read"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":644.85,"endTime":648.75,"body":"something like the Gospel of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":648.75,"endTime":652.83,"body":"Mark, where Jesus is not God,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":648.75,"endTime":652.83,"body":"with something like the gospel"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":652.83,"endTime":657.0,"body":"of John, where in parts, Jesus"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":652.83,"endTime":657.0,"body":"does sound very much like he's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":657.0,"endTime":662.31,"body":"claiming to be God. And then you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":657.0,"endTime":662.31,"body":"sort of read John into Mark, if"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":662.31,"endTime":663.09,"body":"that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":663.12,"endTime":663.54,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":663.6,"endTime":666.24,"body":"Okay. I think it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":663.6,"endTime":666.24,"body":"does. But I just want to clarify"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":666.24,"endTime":671.94,"body":"in case any of our listeners are"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":666.24,"endTime":671.94,"body":"not Christian, or Bible nerds."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":672.3,"endTime":675.06,"body":"So- so we read the Bible like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":672.3,"endTime":675.06,"body":"it's one book, but it's actually"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":675.06,"endTime":675.78,"body":"a bunch of books?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":676.02,"endTime":678.45,"body":"It is, in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":676.02,"endTime":678.45,"body":"fact, 27 books, yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":678.45,"endTime":680.94,"body":"Whoa- So we've"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":678.45,"endTime":680.94,"body":"got a different perspectives on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":680.94,"endTime":683.1,"body":"how God works instead of, like,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":680.94,"endTime":683.1,"body":"one coherent narrative?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":683.46,"endTime":686.79,"body":"I would argue"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":683.46,"endTime":686.79,"body":"that you have 27 perspectives."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":689.67,"endTime":692.04,"body":"I am"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":689.67,"endTime":692.04,"body":"learning so much, I have to say"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":692.07,"endTime":694.89,"body":"I- if you would have asked me"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":692.07,"endTime":694.89,"body":"how many books are in the New"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":694.89,"endTime":697.47,"body":"Testament, I would have said"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":694.89,"endTime":697.47,"body":"four."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":698.49,"endTime":699.57,"body":"Matthew, Mark,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":698.49,"endTime":699.57,"body":"Luke and John."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":699.81,"endTime":701.88,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":699.81,"endTime":701.88,"body":"that's all I know. I'm a Jew who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":701.88,"endTime":705.03,"body":"studies Muslims in South Asia,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":701.88,"endTime":705.03,"body":"there's only so much one brain"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":705.03,"endTime":710.67,"body":"can have. I'm like, floored,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":705.03,"endTime":710.67,"body":"because I feel like a dumb dumb,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":710.7,"endTime":714.03,"body":"but I'm also really glad that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":710.7,"endTime":714.03,"body":"you're here to school me like a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":714.03,"endTime":714.93,"body":"wizard."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":715.35,"endTime":719.28,"body":"Like a wizard."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":715.35,"endTime":719.28,"body":"All this time, we've just been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":719.28,"endTime":721.41,"body":"waiting for our Hogwarts"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":719.28,"endTime":721.41,"body":"letters, we didn't know that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":721.41,"endTime":722.64,"body":"they had already arrived."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":724.02,"endTime":725.97,"body":"Aww, the Hogwarts"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":724.02,"endTime":725.97,"body":"letters were the friends we made"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":725.97,"endTime":726.36,"body":"along the way, you guys!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":726.36,"endTime":726.6,"body":"Oh my gosh!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":729.72,"endTime":733.59,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":729.72,"endTime":733.59,"body":"so there's 27 perspectives or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":733.59,"endTime":737.85,"body":"narratives in the Biblical"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":733.59,"endTime":737.85,"body":"canon-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":738.39,"endTime":739.26,"body":"The Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":738.39,"endTime":739.26,"body":"Canon."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":739.26,"endTime":739.62,"body":"Christian"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":739.26,"endTime":739.62,"body":"canon."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":739.62,"endTime":743.01,"body":"There are 27"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":739.62,"endTime":743.01,"body":"texts in the New Testament,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":743.64,"endTime":746.64,"body":"there are fewer than 27th"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":743.64,"endTime":746.64,"body":"authors, right? Because we have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":746.64,"endTime":748.89,"body":"authors who wrote multiple"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":746.64,"endTime":748.89,"body":"texts."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":749.04,"endTime":750.51,"body":"Yeah, Paul is a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":749.04,"endTime":750.51,"body":"chatty bitch."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":750.69,"endTime":753.69,"body":"He's- oh my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":750.69,"endTime":753.69,"body":"gosh, I'm glad you said that and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":753.69,"endTime":759.51,"body":"not me. He really was a chatty"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":753.69,"endTime":759.51,"body":"bitch. Yeah, and so- but I would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":759.51,"endTime":761.79,"body":"argue that, you know, each of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":759.51,"endTime":761.79,"body":"the texts gives you a sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":761.79,"endTime":766.56,"body":"different perspective on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":761.79,"endTime":766.56,"body":"Christian narrative. And so one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":766.56,"endTime":769.17,"body":"of the things that I do in my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":766.56,"endTime":769.17,"body":"class is like, I try to get my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":769.17,"endTime":770.79,"body":"students to sort of think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":769.17,"endTime":770.79,"body":"through this and I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":771.18,"endTime":776.04,"body":"'okay, prove to me that Jesus is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":771.18,"endTime":776.04,"body":"God in Mark's gospel,' and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":776.04,"endTime":779.58,"body":"they're- one of the first things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":776.04,"endTime":779.58,"body":"that they say inevitably is,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":780.09,"endTime":786.3,"body":"'well, he did miracles.' Well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":780.09,"endTime":786.3,"body":"okay. But so did so many other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":786.3,"endTime":790.71,"body":"people in the ancient world,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":786.3,"endTime":790.71,"body":"right? In fact, lots and lots of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":790.71,"endTime":792.72,"body":"miracle stories, in the ancient"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":790.71,"endTime":792.72,"body":"world, so this doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":792.72,"endTime":797.55,"body":"necessarily make Jesus unique."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":792.72,"endTime":797.55,"body":"And they're not always happy"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":797.55,"endTime":798.57,"body":"when I say that."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":799.11,"endTime":801.09,"body":"Doesn't John the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":799.11,"endTime":801.09,"body":"Baptist do miracles? Like it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":801.09,"endTime":802.89,"body":"been a minute since I looked at"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":801.09,"endTime":802.89,"body":"the Bible. I'm not gonna lie."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":802.89,"endTime":803.19,"body":"But-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":803.91,"endTime":806.58,"body":"Does John the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":803.91,"endTime":806.58,"body":"Baptist do miracles? I don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":806.76,"endTime":807.6,"body":"think so."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":807.6,"endTime":807.87,"body":"Okay, I don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":807.6,"endTime":807.87,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":807.69,"endTime":810.36,"body":"But we know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":807.69,"endTime":810.36,"body":"that [inaudible] does, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":810.36,"endTime":812.58,"body":"We know that Paul does in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":810.36,"endTime":812.58,"body":"the New Te"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":812.64,"endTime":813.96,"body":"I mean, Paul kind"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":812.64,"endTime":813.96,"body":"of thinks he's God."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":813.0,"endTime":818.7,"body":"Paul kinda-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":813.0,"endTime":818.7,"body":"yeah. Whether or not Jesus and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":818.7,"endTime":822.93,"body":"Paul preached the same tradition"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":818.7,"endTime":822.93,"body":"is a totally different podcast."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":822.96,"endTime":826.65,"body":"Yes, ma'am. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":822.96,"endTime":826.65,"body":"so let's- let's zoom out before"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":826.65,"endTime":829.86,"body":"I just keep dunking on the New"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":826.65,"endTime":829.86,"body":"Testament. Which is hilarious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":829.86,"endTime":831.99,"body":"because I have literally never"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":829.86,"endTime":831.99,"body":"taken a New Testament class with"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":831.99,"endTime":833.28,"body":"it though I definitely TA'd for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":831.99,"endTime":833.28,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":834.51,"endTime":834.9,"body":"They're so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":834.51,"endTime":834.9,"body":"fun!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":834.87,"endTime":837.06,"body":"It's a lot, but"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":834.87,"endTime":837.06,"body":"Okay, so we're zooming out. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":835.86,"endTime":848.49,"body":"Can we keep"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":835.86,"endTime":848.49,"body":"this in the final cut?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":837.06,"endTime":841.59,"body":"what I heard you say was what's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":837.06,"endTime":841.59,"body":"at stake in your project, 1) is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":841.59,"endTime":846.78,"body":"that the way we encounter the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":841.59,"endTime":846.78,"body":"Bible, and particularly the New"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":846.78,"endTime":850.83,"body":"Testament, can lead to things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":846.78,"endTime":850.83,"body":"like Christian exceptionalism,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":848.0,"endTime":873.35,"body":"Sure, sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":848.0,"endTime":873.35,"body":"This is this is embodied"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":851.46,"endTime":854.82,"body":"or Christian supremacy (and/or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":851.46,"endTime":854.82,"body":"Christian supremacy) which has"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":854.85,"endTime":862.26,"body":"real world consequences- please"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":854.85,"endTime":862.26,"body":"hold. RU NO. STOP IT. SIT."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":873.38,"endTime":876.71,"body":"scholarship. Lest you think we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":873.38,"endTime":876.71,"body":"are brains on sticks. I am"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":877.01,"endTime":881.0,"body":"currently managing a very"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":877.01,"endTime":881.0,"body":"excited one-year-old dog who's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":881.0,"endTime":882.86,"body":"mad that we're not going for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":881.0,"endTime":882.86,"body":"walks yet because we usually"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":882.86,"endTime":885.32,"body":"goes for walks right now, but he"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":882.86,"endTime":885.32,"body":"has to wait till 12:30 because"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":885.32,"endTime":886.22,"body":"that was the deal."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":899.15,"endTime":906.2,"body":"Anyway, okay. So, this focus on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":899.15,"endTime":906.2,"body":"Christianity as \"special\" can"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":906.2,"endTime":910.19,"body":"lead to thinking Christianity is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":906.2,"endTime":910.19,"body":"the most important religion,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":910.19,"endTime":912.98,"body":"that it should, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":910.19,"endTime":912.98,"body":"run countries, and that has real"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":912.98,"endTime":915.86,"body":"world consequences up to and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":912.98,"endTime":915.86,"body":"including, like, maybe an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":915.86,"endTime":921.38,"body":"attempted coup. And we treat"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":915.86,"endTime":921.38,"body":"(not \"we\" obviously, we would"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":921.38,"endTime":925.1,"body":"never do this, but THOSE people"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":921.38,"endTime":925.1,"body":"treat) the Bible like it's one"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":925.1,"endTime":928.1,"body":"story, when actually, if we're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":925.1,"endTime":928.1,"body":"looking at the Christian Bible,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":928.1,"endTime":931.31,"body":"we've got 27 different"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":928.1,"endTime":931.31,"body":"perspectives on how God works."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":931.67,"endTime":935.45,"body":"And things are way more"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":931.67,"endTime":935.45,"body":"complicated than people make"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":935.45,"endTime":936.08,"body":"them out to be."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":936.43,"endTime":938.08,"body":"Things are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":936.43,"endTime":938.08,"body":"always more complicated than"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":938.08,"endTime":940.84,"body":"people make them out to be,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":938.08,"endTime":940.84,"body":"right? And so one of the- one of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":940.84,"endTime":944.29,"body":"the things, if I could tie this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":940.84,"endTime":944.29,"body":"sort of back to magic-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":944.29,"endTime":944.35,"body":"Yeah!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":944.66,"endTime":946.67,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":944.66,"endTime":946.67,"body":"things that I try to get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":946.67,"endTime":950.54,"body":"students to see by focusing in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":946.67,"endTime":950.54,"body":"on you know, everybody was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":950.54,"endTime":956.39,"body":"doing, you know, wonders in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":950.54,"endTime":956.39,"body":"ancient world is: Christianity"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":956.42,"endTime":959.9,"body":"is embedded in the cultural"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":956.42,"endTime":959.9,"body":"context from which it emerged,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":959.9,"endTime":964.1,"body":"right? It's not something that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":959.9,"endTime":964.1,"body":"transcends culture. It's- it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":964.1,"endTime":969.8,"body":"created in in this Roman"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":964.1,"endTime":969.8,"body":"cultural context, it is in fact,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":970.34,"endTime":971.57,"body":"a Roman religion."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":972.86,"endTime":972.95,"body":"Whaat!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":972.95,"endTime":977.21,"body":"Whaat- right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":972.95,"endTime":977.21,"body":"So, to me, this work grounds"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":977.21,"endTime":981.2,"body":"Christianity in a way and says,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":977.21,"endTime":981.2,"body":"Hey, you know, Christianity"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":981.23,"endTime":985.19,"body":"cannot transcend culture or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":981.23,"endTime":985.19,"body":"politics, right? It is, and it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":985.19,"endTime":988.94,"body":"has always been embedded in- in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":985.19,"endTime":988.94,"body":"culture and politics."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":990.86,"endTime":992.69,"body":"So much is going"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":990.86,"endTime":992.69,"body":"on here. Whoa, okay, so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":992.69,"endTime":995.21,"body":"Christianity is what Roman"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":992.69,"endTime":995.21,"body":"people did?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":996.32,"endTime":998.6,"body":"Yeah, Roman"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":996.32,"endTime":998.6,"body":"people did think Christianity."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":998.93,"endTime":999.62,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1000.01,"endTime":1002.53,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1000.01,"endTime":1002.53,"body":"Okay, but I'm glad that you're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1002.53,"endTime":1005.29,"body":"bringing it back around to magic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1002.53,"endTime":1005.29,"body":"because I want to talk more"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1005.29,"endTime":1007.27,"body":"about wizards if you don't mind."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1005.29,"endTime":1007.27,"body":"I'm-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1007.33,"endTime":1007.84,"body":"Always."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1009.34,"endTime":1012.13,"body":"The wizard runner"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1009.34,"endTime":1012.13,"body":"is my fault because wizard Jesus"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1012.13,"endTime":1014.77,"body":"is hilarious and like makes me"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1012.13,"endTime":1014.77,"body":"think about the Cookie Crisp"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1014.77,"endTime":1018.25,"body":"wizard and also of Jack Chick's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1014.77,"endTime":1018.25,"body":"Eucharist as death cookie,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1018.25,"endTime":1021.88,"body":"because as a former Catholic, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1018.25,"endTime":1021.88,"body":"find Chick Jack's jokes about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1021.88,"endTime":1024.01,"body":"Catholicism (except they're not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1021.88,"endTime":1024.01,"body":"joking. But I think it's funny)-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1025.15,"endTime":1028.3,"body":"I find those hilarious. But"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1025.15,"endTime":1028.3,"body":"okay- but also, when I'm not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1028.3,"endTime":1031.48,"body":"being a dick, this is a serious"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1028.3,"endTime":1031.48,"body":"question for early Jesus people,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1031.48,"endTime":1034.78,"body":"right? Like, can you help us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1031.48,"endTime":1034.78,"body":"make sense of how magic fits"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1034.78,"endTime":1038.89,"body":"into your project? And also, can"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1034.78,"endTime":1038.89,"body":"you- can you tell us, A) if"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1038.89,"endTime":1042.76,"body":"Jesus is a wizard, and B) if"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1038.89,"endTime":1042.76,"body":"Jesus is a wizard, which house"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1042.76,"endTime":1043.87,"body":"he would be sorted into?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1044.77,"endTime":1047.29,"body":"Oh, man,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1044.77,"endTime":1047.29,"body":"that's such a good question. I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1047.29,"endTime":1050.65,"body":"can't believe I haven't thought"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1047.29,"endTime":1050.65,"body":"of an answer to that. Okay. Um,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1050.68,"endTime":1052.54,"body":"let me answer your first"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1050.68,"endTime":1052.54,"body":"question. And maybe we can-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1052.57,"endTime":1054.16,"body":"You can come back"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1052.57,"endTime":1054.16,"body":"to it. We can like- we can think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1054.16,"endTime":1055.9,"body":"about it at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1054.16,"endTime":1055.9,"body":"podcast too, don't let me put"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1055.96,"endTime":1056.62,"body":"pressure on you."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1057.59,"endTime":1060.11,"body":"So this is a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1057.59,"endTime":1060.11,"body":"serious scholarly question."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1060.44,"endTime":1063.92,"body":"Candida Moss did a really great"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1060.44,"endTime":1063.92,"body":"write up for The Daily Beast"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1063.92,"endTime":1066.59,"body":"where she lays out some of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1063.92,"endTime":1066.59,"body":"scholarly issues. And I'd"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1066.59,"endTime":1070.25,"body":"recommend that for folks who are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1066.59,"endTime":1070.25,"body":"interested, and we'll- we can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1070.25,"endTime":1071.3,"body":"put that in the homework."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1071.48,"endTime":1073.25,"body":"I mean, didn't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1071.48,"endTime":1073.25,"body":"she interview you for that"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1073.25,"endTime":1073.73,"body":"piece?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1073.76,"endTime":1076.31,"body":"Yeah, it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1073.76,"endTime":1076.31,"body":"in fact a call out for me."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1076.82,"endTime":1078.59,"body":"Well"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1076.82,"endTime":1078.59,"body":"we will definitely put it in the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1078.59,"endTime":1079.4,"body":"show notes."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1079.0,"endTime":1084.67,"body":"Into the show"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1079.0,"endTime":1084.67,"body":"notes, yes! But to answer your"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1079.49,"endTime":1079.94,"body":"Yeah we will!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1084.67,"endTime":1088.36,"body":"question, like, Jesus was a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1084.67,"endTime":1088.36,"body":"magician, depending on who you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1088.36,"endTime":1091.99,"body":"ask. Now, I know that sounds"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1088.36,"endTime":1091.99,"body":"like a cop out, but hear me out."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1092.23,"endTime":1092.56,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1093.02,"endTime":1096.2,"body":"Some of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1093.02,"endTime":1096.2,"body":"latest (and I think the coolest)"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1096.2,"endTime":1100.91,"body":"work in, you know, ancient"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1096.2,"endTime":1100.91,"body":"history is about how categories"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1100.91,"endTime":1106.19,"body":"and labels worked in the ancient"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1100.91,"endTime":1106.19,"body":"world. How do we know someone is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1106.22,"endTime":1109.43,"body":"gnostic, for example, or a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1106.22,"endTime":1109.43,"body":"magician. And the thing with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1109.43,"endTime":1113.42,"body":"labels for ritual specialists,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1109.43,"endTime":1113.42,"body":"like magicians, is that they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1113.42,"endTime":1116.72,"body":"really fuzzy. And remember that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1113.42,"endTime":1116.72,"body":"our evidence is really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1116.72,"endTime":1120.89,"body":"fragmentary, right? So it's hard"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1116.72,"endTime":1120.89,"body":"to tell a magician apart from"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1120.89,"endTime":1124.64,"body":"let's say, a philosopher, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1120.89,"endTime":1124.64,"body":"there's no real reason why"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1124.64,"endTime":1128.51,"body":"someone can't be a magician and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1124.64,"endTime":1128.51,"body":"a philosopher."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1128.93,"endTime":1130.76,"body":"Whaat? Okay, can"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1128.93,"endTime":1130.76,"body":"we- can we pause for a minute,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1130.76,"endTime":1134.15,"body":"I'm just gonna keep asking,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1130.76,"endTime":1134.15,"body":"like- like, super basic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1134.15,"endTime":1137.93,"body":"questions, because I am, as you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1134.15,"endTime":1137.93,"body":"know, a basic bitch. Why do we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1137.93,"endTime":1141.86,"body":"not have a lot of evidence for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1137.93,"endTime":1141.86,"body":"how people thought about Jesus?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1143.03,"endTime":1145.28,"body":"We have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1143.03,"endTime":1145.28,"body":"evidence for people- how people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1145.28,"endTime":1148.19,"body":"thought about Jesus and we have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1145.28,"endTime":1148.19,"body":"the New Testament, we have lots"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1148.19,"endTime":1149.96,"body":"and lots of early Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1148.19,"endTime":1149.96,"body":"writings."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1150.08,"endTime":1150.53,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1150.59,"endTime":1153.08,"body":"We have a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1150.59,"endTime":1153.08,"body":"pretty good bit of evidence for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1153.08,"endTime":1154.79,"body":"how people thought about Jesus."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1154.85,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"Okay. But you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1154.85,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"said that there was- the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1156.53,"endTime":1157.85,"body":"evidence was fragmentary."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1157.85,"endTime":1157.91,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1157.94,"endTime":1159.5,"body":"Can you talk to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1157.94,"endTime":1159.5,"body":"me about that?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1159.69,"endTime":1163.05,"body":"Sure. So what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1159.69,"endTime":1163.05,"body":"I mean is we have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1163.08,"endTime":1167.55,"body":"literary evidence. And we also"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1163.08,"endTime":1167.55,"body":"have a pool of material"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1167.55,"endTime":1171.96,"body":"evidence. But what we're unsure"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1167.55,"endTime":1171.96,"body":"of is how this literary evidence"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1171.99,"endTime":1177.12,"body":"actually reflects historical,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1171.99,"endTime":1177.12,"body":"you know, reality on the ground,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1177.12,"endTime":1182.88,"body":"right? Like, can we really,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1177.12,"endTime":1182.88,"body":"really reconstruct Jesus? Um,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1182.94,"endTime":1183.3,"body":"or-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1183.33,"endTime":1185.1,"body":"So it's not just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1183.33,"endTime":1185.1,"body":"like reporting, people aren't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1185.1,"endTime":1187.59,"body":"just, like, sitting down and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1185.1,"endTime":1187.59,"body":"saying, \"This is exactly what"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1187.59,"endTime":1190.53,"body":"Jesus said\" they might have"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1187.59,"endTime":1190.53,"body":"reasons for saying Jesus was one"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1190.53,"endTime":1191.19,"body":"way or another?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1191.43,"endTime":1194.82,"body":"Oh, do they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1191.43,"endTime":1194.82,"body":"have reasons... They have so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1194.82,"endTime":1200.28,"body":"many reasons. Yes. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1194.82,"endTime":1200.28,"body":"right. So like when you have-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1200.31,"endTime":1203.37,"body":"let's say Matthew, Mark, Luke,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1200.31,"endTime":1203.37,"body":"and John, right? Ilyse's canon-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1203.52,"endTime":1204.36,"body":"when you have Ilyse's canon-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1207.21,"endTime":1208.62,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1207.21,"endTime":1208.62,"body":"should not get a canon but I'll"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1208.62,"endTime":1208.98,"body":"take it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1210.61,"endTime":1213.58,"body":"You have four"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1210.61,"endTime":1213.58,"body":"different perspectives on who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1213.58,"endTime":1216.85,"body":"Jesus was and four different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1213.58,"endTime":1216.85,"body":"authors with four different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1216.85,"endTime":1220.36,"body":"agendas in terms of how they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1216.85,"endTime":1220.36,"body":"want jesus to be portrayed,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1220.36,"endTime":1222.73,"body":"right? And so you have these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1220.36,"endTime":1222.73,"body":"texts that are sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1222.73,"endTime":1226.9,"body":"contradictory, and you have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1222.73,"endTime":1226.9,"body":"authors with agendas, and then"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1226.93,"endTime":1229.36,"body":"you're trying to figure out like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1226.93,"endTime":1229.36,"body":"okay so who was really the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1229.36,"endTime":1233.23,"body":"historical Jesus? The truth is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1229.36,"endTime":1233.23,"body":"there's just so little that we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1233.23,"endTime":1237.67,"body":"can historically substantiate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1233.23,"endTime":1237.67,"body":"about Jesus, and less that we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1237.67,"endTime":1241.66,"body":"can historically substantiate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1237.67,"endTime":1241.66,"body":"about not-Jesus, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1241.66,"endTime":1245.17,"body":"because we have so many texts"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1241.66,"endTime":1245.17,"body":"about Jesus so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1245.17,"endTime":1247.36,"body":"everyday Christians, like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1245.17,"endTime":1247.36,"body":"there's not a lot we can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1247.36,"endTime":1248.08,"body":"substantiate."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1248.27,"endTime":1250.04,"body":"But like everyday"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1248.27,"endTime":1250.04,"body":"early Christians are all the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1250.04,"endTime":1252.44,"body":"same, right? Like, Matthew,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1250.04,"endTime":1252.44,"body":"Mark, Luke and John wrote"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1252.44,"endTime":1254.27,"body":"different perspectives, but,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1252.44,"endTime":1254.27,"body":"like, all for the same people,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1254.27,"endTime":1254.6,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1255.59,"endTime":1256.91,"body":"No. No."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1257.51,"endTime":1258.26,"body":"They had"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1257.51,"endTime":1258.26,"body":"different audiences?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1259.31,"endTime":1263.0,"body":"They- yeah we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1259.31,"endTime":1263.0,"body":"do think that they may have had"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1263.0,"endTime":1269.81,"body":"different audiences. We think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1263.0,"endTime":1269.81,"body":"that there were, like, groups,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1269.81,"endTime":1273.32,"body":"and groups, and groups of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1269.81,"endTime":1273.32,"body":"Christians, right? So, like, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1273.32,"endTime":1276.23,"body":"know we have groups that are not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1273.32,"endTime":1276.23,"body":"strictly monotheist, we have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1276.23,"endTime":1281.78,"body":"groups that would think that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1276.23,"endTime":1281.78,"body":"you know, Jesus was just adopted"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1281.81,"endTime":1286.16,"body":"by the Jewish God at the baptism"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1281.81,"endTime":1286.16,"body":"so not-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1286.0,"endTime":1287.26,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1286.0,"endTime":1287.26,"body":"know what-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1286.159,"endTime":1288.859,"body":"Awww. Is he an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1286.159,"endTime":1288.859,"body":"adoptorino like Ilyse?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1287.26,"endTime":1293.74,"body":"He's adopted-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1287.26,"endTime":1293.74,"body":"right? And it's called"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1295.33,"endTime":1295.36,"body":"adoptionism."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1295.36,"endTime":1299.71,"body":"I'm learning so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1295.36,"endTime":1299.71,"body":"much today."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1301.09,"endTime":1303.49,"body":"So we do- I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1301.09,"endTime":1303.49,"body":"mean, Christianity is this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1303.49,"endTime":1308.11,"body":"hugely diverse phenomenon in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1303.49,"endTime":1308.11,"body":"ancient world and actually, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1308.11,"endTime":1310.57,"body":"know, when I teach early"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1308.11,"endTime":1310.57,"body":"Christianity classes, I always"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1310.69,"endTime":1313.36,"body":"talk to my students about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1310.69,"endTime":1313.36,"body":"Christianities in the plural,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1313.36,"endTime":1320.11,"body":"because we can't talk about one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1313.36,"endTime":1320.11,"body":"thing. Um, and so- I totally"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1320.11,"endTime":1322.27,"body":"forgot where I was going with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1320.11,"endTime":1322.27,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1322.3,"endTime":1323.77,"body":"Magic! We were"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1322.3,"endTime":1323.77,"body":"supposed to bring it back to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1323.77,"endTime":1326.38,"body":"wizards, I'm sorry I got- I got"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1323.77,"endTime":1326.38,"body":"you all confused, but like- so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1326.38,"endTime":1330.88,"body":"why would people want to or not"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1326.38,"endTime":1330.88,"body":"want to think about Jesus as a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1330.88,"endTime":1331.24,"body":"wizard?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1331.84,"endTime":1334.87,"body":"Right- right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1331.84,"endTime":1334.87,"body":"Okay, so, the label itself is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1334.87,"endTime":1337.81,"body":"already fuzzy, right? And it can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1334.87,"endTime":1337.81,"body":"already be conflated with other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1337.81,"endTime":1343.39,"body":"labels like philosopher or, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1337.81,"endTime":1343.39,"body":"know, messiah, even. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1343.39,"endTime":1348.49,"body":"so there is, again in- in some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1343.39,"endTime":1348.49,"body":"of the latest scholarship,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1348.52,"endTime":1354.43,"body":"there- what we've learned is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1348.52,"endTime":1354.43,"body":"that the literati of the ancient"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1354.88,"endTime":1359.23,"body":"world had a vested interest in,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1354.88,"endTime":1359.23,"body":"you know, protecting their own"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1359.23,"endTime":1363.91,"body":"expertise and so what they do is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1359.23,"endTime":1363.91,"body":"they write against particular"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1363.91,"endTime":1367.84,"body":"ritual specialists like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1363.91,"endTime":1367.84,"body":"magicians and so they talk that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1367.84,"endTime":1371.26,"body":"about magicians. And so now you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1367.84,"endTime":1371.26,"body":"have all of these authors in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1371.26,"endTime":1374.83,"body":"ancient Greco-Roman world who"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1371.26,"endTime":1374.83,"body":"are basically talking trash"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1374.83,"endTime":1379.39,"body":"about these ritual specialists."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1374.83,"endTime":1379.39,"body":"Jesus figures into all of this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1379.39,"endTime":1386.35,"body":"because the activities that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1379.39,"endTime":1386.35,"body":"Jesus does correlate with what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1386.35,"endTime":1389.38,"body":"people expect from ancient"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1386.35,"endTime":1389.38,"body":"magicians, right? So, like, he's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1389.38,"endTime":1394.27,"body":"doing things like exorcisms or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1389.38,"endTime":1394.27,"body":"healings, people expected"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1394.27,"endTime":1398.17,"body":"magicians to be able to do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1394.27,"endTime":1398.17,"body":"exorcisms or healings. And so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1398.26,"endTime":1402.25,"body":"christians actually have to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1398.26,"endTime":1402.25,"body":"defend Jesus from being called a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1402.25,"endTime":1408.22,"body":"magician from time to time and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1402.25,"endTime":1408.22,"body":"Christian writers also have an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1408.22,"endTime":1414.91,"body":"interest in insulating Jesus"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1408.22,"endTime":1414.91,"body":"from the charge of magic, right,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1414.94,"endTime":1419.11,"body":"of being accused of being a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1414.94,"endTime":1419.11,"body":"magician. So some folks would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1419.11,"endTime":1421.72,"body":"have thought that Jesus was most"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1419.11,"endTime":1421.72,"body":"certainly a magician, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1421.75,"endTime":1424.69,"body":"Christian writers had to defend"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1421.75,"endTime":1424.69,"body":"Jesus against that charge. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1424.69,"endTime":1428.05,"body":"others would have wanted Jesus-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1424.69,"endTime":1428.05,"body":"or wanted to write Jesus in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1428.05,"endTime":1433.66,"body":"way that insulates him from that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1428.05,"endTime":1433.66,"body":"charge of magic. So it's not as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1433.66,"endTime":1436.99,"body":"simple as Christians thought"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1433.66,"endTime":1436.99,"body":"Jesus was a miracle-worker and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1436.99,"endTime":1439.96,"body":"non-Christians thought Jesus was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1436.99,"endTime":1439.96,"body":"a magician, in my opinion. I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1439.96,"endTime":1443.89,"body":"think it seems that Jesus was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1439.96,"endTime":1443.89,"body":"thought to have done a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1443.89,"endTime":1447.79,"body":"things that magicians did, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1443.89,"endTime":1447.79,"body":"because of this, Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1447.79,"endTime":1452.47,"body":"writers had to find ways of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1447.79,"endTime":1452.47,"body":"distinguishing him from your"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1452.47,"endTime":1455.05,"body":"sort of run-of-the-mill"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1452.47,"endTime":1455.05,"body":"magician. I want to be really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1455.05,"endTime":1458.05,"body":"clear about this, the only"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1455.05,"endTime":1458.05,"body":"reason we think that you can't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1458.05,"endTime":1462.82,"body":"be a magician and a messiah at"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1458.05,"endTime":1462.82,"body":"the same time is because we've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1462.82,"endTime":1467.26,"body":"decided that magic is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1462.82,"endTime":1467.26,"body":"incompatible with what a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1467.26,"endTime":1471.19,"body":"Christian messiah should be. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1467.26,"endTime":1471.19,"body":"essentially what we're doing is,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1471.19,"endTime":1474.4,"body":"we're taking, like, our New"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1471.19,"endTime":1474.4,"body":"Testament writers at their word,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1474.43,"endTime":1477.79,"body":"and I'm trying to ask, like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1474.43,"endTime":1477.79,"body":"what happens if we stop doing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1477.79,"endTime":1478.45,"body":"that, right?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1479.5,"endTime":1481.84,"body":"So can"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1479.5,"endTime":1481.84,"body":"I ask a follow up question?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1482.0,"endTime":1485.24,"body":"What I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1482.0,"endTime":1485.24,"body":"hear you saying then is so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1482.17,"endTime":1482.41,"body":"Sure!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1485.24,"endTime":1489.26,"body":"interesting and complex that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1485.24,"endTime":1489.26,"body":"there's this ancient Greco-Roman"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1489.26,"endTime":1493.25,"body":"milieu that has understandings"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1489.26,"endTime":1493.25,"body":"about magic and about- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1493.25,"endTime":1498.2,"body":"categories like philosopher,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1493.25,"endTime":1498.2,"body":"magician, healer, messiah and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1498.2,"endTime":1503.06,"body":"then we've got Christianities"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1498.2,"endTime":1503.06,"body":"plural, throughout history, so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1503.06,"endTime":1507.11,"body":"not just the ancient world, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1503.06,"endTime":1507.11,"body":"like after that, right? So think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1507.11,"endTime":1509.12,"body":"any historical period, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1507.11,"endTime":1509.12,"body":"Like the Renaissance or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1509.12,"endTime":1511.55,"body":"modernity, or contemporarily."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1509.12,"endTime":1511.55,"body":"And-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1511.55,"endTime":1513.41,"body":"Right"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1511.55,"endTime":1513.41,"body":"Christianity is not one thing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1513.41,"endTime":1513.95,"body":"who knew?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1514.05,"endTime":1515.73,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1514.05,"endTime":1515.73,"body":"So it's not one thing, but we've"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1515.73,"endTime":1521.37,"body":"got these early Christian texts,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1515.73,"endTime":1521.37,"body":"which are what we have to figure"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1521.37,"endTime":1526.14,"body":"out things like who Jesus was."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1521.37,"endTime":1526.14,"body":"But we also have contemporary"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1526.14,"endTime":1530.19,"body":"ideas about what Jesus should"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1526.14,"endTime":1530.19,"body":"be. And that those things"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1530.19,"endTime":1534.27,"body":"together are shaping both how we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1530.19,"endTime":1534.27,"body":"see Jesus as a wizard or not a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1534.27,"endTime":1538.92,"body":"wizard, and what Christianity"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1534.27,"endTime":1538.92,"body":"might or should be, might should"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1538.92,"endTime":1540.99,"body":"be, to be a little Southern"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1538.92,"endTime":1540.99,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1541.35,"endTime":1544.98,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1541.35,"endTime":1544.98,"body":"that's absolutely right. And so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1545.01,"endTime":1547.65,"body":"sorry, I mean, I should- I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1545.01,"endTime":1547.65,"body":"should have been a little bit"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1547.65,"endTime":1550.65,"body":"more clear about this. I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1547.65,"endTime":1550.65,"body":"the two questions, right,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1550.71,"endTime":1554.07,"body":"whether or not Jesus was a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1550.71,"endTime":1554.07,"body":"magician, and what ancient magic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1554.07,"endTime":1559.77,"body":"was, and also what was early"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1554.07,"endTime":1559.77,"body":"Christianity or how Christians"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1559.77,"endTime":1562.53,"body":"defined themselves? The two"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1559.77,"endTime":1562.53,"body":"answers- or the two questions"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1562.53,"endTime":1564.99,"body":"have to be answered"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1562.53,"endTime":1564.99,"body":"simultaneously."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1565.02,"endTime":1566.4,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1565.02,"endTime":1566.4,"body":"that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1566.67,"endTime":1568.35,"body":"Yeah. Also, I've"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1566.67,"endTime":1568.35,"body":"given it some thought. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1568.35,"endTime":1569.31,"body":"thinking Hufflepuff."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1569.79,"endTime":1571.26,"body":"That's what I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1569.79,"endTime":1571.26,"body":"was thinking too, as I was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1571.26,"endTime":1574.05,"body":"talking to you, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1571.26,"endTime":1574.05,"body":"he's just going out and giving"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1574.05,"endTime":1575.46,"body":"people, like, free shit."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1575.67,"endTime":1576.93,"body":"Which is but all"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1575.67,"endTime":1576.93,"body":"the same."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1577.11,"endTime":1579.54,"body":"Here's a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1577.11,"endTime":1579.54,"body":"feeling, let's hug."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1579.69,"endTime":1582.21,"body":"Mhm, mhm, mhm."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1579.69,"endTime":1582.21,"body":"Okay, I'm glad- I'm glad that we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1582.24,"endTime":1584.97,"body":"came to a scholarly consensus on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1582.24,"endTime":1584.97,"body":"that. Thank you for your expert"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1584.97,"endTime":1585.39,"body":"opinion."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1594.57,"endTime":1596.01,"body":"Can I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1594.57,"endTime":1596.01,"body":"ask another question? I know"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1596.01,"endTime":1598.65,"body":"this is a little bit off the the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1596.01,"endTime":1598.65,"body":"questions we gave you, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1598.65,"endTime":1602.46,"body":"curious, because it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1598.65,"endTime":1602.46,"body":"so much of what you're doing,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1602.46,"endTime":1606.93,"body":"Shaily, is this interesting,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1602.46,"endTime":1606.93,"body":"early, early stuff like ancient"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1606.93,"endTime":1612.69,"body":"history manuscript text work."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1606.93,"endTime":1612.69,"body":"And then also, you're making"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1612.69,"endTime":1616.2,"body":"connections to what's going on"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1612.69,"endTime":1616.2,"body":"today, what's going on a couple"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1616.2,"endTime":1619.89,"body":"100 years ago, what's going on a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1616.2,"endTime":1619.89,"body":"couple 100 years after Jesus. So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1619.89,"endTime":1624.03,"body":"like, why the ancient world?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1619.89,"endTime":1624.03,"body":"Like, what is so important about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1624.03,"endTime":1626.52,"body":"the ancient world, either to you"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1624.03,"endTime":1626.52,"body":"or to the work that you're"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1626.52,"endTime":1630.09,"body":"doing? Like, why does that turn"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1626.52,"endTime":1630.09,"body":"you on? Instead of saying, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1630.12,"endTime":1634.77,"body":"I want to study the Christians"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1630.12,"endTime":1634.77,"body":"who stormed the Capitol last"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1634.77,"endTime":1636.66,"body":"night? Like- I'm just-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1638.31,"endTime":1642.21,"body":"No, um, well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1638.31,"endTime":1642.21,"body":"I think part of it is just this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1642.21,"endTime":1645.75,"body":"sort of, you know, if I can say"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1642.21,"endTime":1645.75,"body":"this, like part of it is- is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1645.75,"endTime":1650.1,"body":"really like, I have antiquarian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1645.75,"endTime":1650.1,"body":"interest, right. Like, I like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1650.1,"endTime":1655.71,"body":"the ancient world. It's fun."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1650.1,"endTime":1655.71,"body":"It's fascinating to me. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1655.71,"endTime":1661.29,"body":"really sort of get excited about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1655.71,"endTime":1661.29,"body":"studying Christianity until I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1661.29,"endTime":1666.09,"body":"took a class at Wake Forest,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1661.29,"endTime":1666.09,"body":"which, if any of you know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1666.09,"endTime":1669.0,"body":"anything about Wake Forest"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1666.09,"endTime":1669.0,"body":"University used to be pretty"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1669.0,"endTime":1672.78,"body":"strongly affiliated with the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1669.0,"endTime":1672.78,"body":"Southern Baptist Convention. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1672.78,"endTime":1675.96,"body":"like, when I went to Wake"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1672.78,"endTime":1675.96,"body":"Forest, there were still like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1675.99,"endTime":1680.94,"body":"you know, like, remnants of Wake"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1675.99,"endTime":1680.94,"body":"being affiliated with the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1680.94,"endTime":1682.65,"body":"Southern Baptist Convention. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1680.94,"endTime":1682.65,"body":"one of those was-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1682.65,"endTime":1686.64,"body":"Hey, just a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1682.65,"endTime":1686.64,"body":"pause, because I know, but like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1686.67,"endTime":1688.89,"body":"Ilyse might not know- Ilyse"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1686.67,"endTime":1688.89,"body":"actually does know, but some of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1688.89,"endTime":1691.41,"body":"our listeners might not know,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1688.89,"endTime":1691.41,"body":"Southern Baptist Convention,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1691.62,"endTime":1693.9,"body":"politically speaking, where-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1691.62,"endTime":1693.9,"body":"where are they at?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1694.68,"endTime":1696.75,"body":"Um, I would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1694.68,"endTime":1696.75,"body":"characterize them- and yo- you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1696.75,"endTime":1698.52,"body":"would probably know better than"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1696.75,"endTime":1698.52,"body":"I would Megan, I would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1698.52,"endTime":1700.71,"body":"characterize them pretty right."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1700.77,"endTime":1702.33,"body":"Yeah. Pretty-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1700.77,"endTime":1702.33,"body":"pretty conservative. Right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1702.36,"endTime":1704.82,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1702.36,"endTime":1704.82,"body":"Yeah. I shouldn't have said"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1704.85,"endTime":1705.9,"body":"pretty, right. Right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1708.96,"endTime":1710.67,"body":"Pretty alt-right."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1708.96,"endTime":1710.67,"body":"No, sorry. Sorry."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1712.4,"endTime":1715.79,"body":"Anyway, so one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1712.4,"endTime":1715.79,"body":"of the- one of the sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1715.79,"endTime":1719.63,"body":"remnants of Wake being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1715.79,"endTime":1719.63,"body":"affiliated with the Southern"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1719.63,"endTime":1723.26,"body":"Baptist Convention was that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1719.63,"endTime":1723.26,"body":"like, all the religion classes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1723.26,"endTime":1726.71,"body":"were Christianity. And then"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1723.26,"endTime":1726.71,"body":"there was a Zen Buddhism class,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1727.01,"endTime":1728.72,"body":"Of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1727.01,"endTime":1728.72,"body":"course. Oh, yeah, totally, that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1728.72,"endTime":1729.83,"body":"is for sure spot on."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1730.71,"endTime":1732.24,"body":"That was the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1730.71,"endTime":1732.24,"body":"curriculum, right?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1733.68,"endTime":1733.92,"body":"Oh no."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1733.92,"endTime":1737.4,"body":"So I ended up"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1733.92,"endTime":1737.4,"body":"taking a class on Jesus in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1737.4,"endTime":1743.01,"body":"gospels, which taught Ilyse's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1737.4,"endTime":1743.01,"body":"canon, right, Matthew, Mark,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1743.01,"endTime":1744.96,"body":"Luke and John. Ilyse's canon"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1743.01,"endTime":1744.96,"body":"now, forever."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1745.38,"endTime":1746.28,"body":"I love this so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1745.38,"endTime":1746.28,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1746.97,"endTime":1747.06,"body":"Oh no."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1747.51,"endTime":1749.91,"body":"And so I- you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1747.51,"endTime":1749.91,"body":"know, I read the text. And this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1749.91,"endTime":1752.07,"body":"is the first time I've read the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1749.91,"endTime":1752.07,"body":"text. And I was like, Oh, these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1752.07,"endTime":1756.99,"body":"are actually pretty fun. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1752.07,"endTime":1756.99,"body":"they're not saying the same"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1756.99,"endTime":1761.61,"body":"thing. And so from then, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1756.99,"endTime":1761.61,"body":"know, it just became this, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1761.79,"endTime":1766.23,"body":"so why do we think Christianity"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1761.79,"endTime":1766.23,"body":"is this one monolith, when in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1766.23,"endTime":1769.86,"body":"fact, the text don't suggest"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1766.23,"endTime":1769.86,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1769.89,"endTime":1770.19,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1770.4,"endTime":1772.65,"body":"It became"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1770.4,"endTime":1772.65,"body":"like, why do we think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1772.65,"endTime":1779.1,"body":"Christianity is this sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1772.65,"endTime":1779.1,"body":"special transcendent tradition,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1779.43,"endTime":1782.91,"body":"when in fact, the texts seem"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1779.43,"endTime":1782.91,"body":"quite indebted to the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1782.91,"endTime":1785.55,"body":"Greco-Roman world, and part of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1782.91,"endTime":1785.55,"body":"that is personal too, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1785.55,"endTime":1790.71,"body":"Like, I grew up in a Hindu"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1785.55,"endTime":1790.71,"body":"household and you know, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1790.71,"endTime":1794.76,"body":"Christian, but I'm an immigrant."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1790.71,"endTime":1794.76,"body":"I lived in West Virginia, which"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1794.79,"endTime":1798.87,"body":"is heavily Christian, heavily a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1794.79,"endTime":1798.87,"body":"particular kind of Christian."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1799.41,"endTime":1803.07,"body":"Um, and so I had always"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1799.41,"endTime":1803.07,"body":"encountered Christianity as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1803.07,"endTime":1807.21,"body":"being thought of as this sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1803.07,"endTime":1807.21,"body":"transcendent religious"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1807.21,"endTime":1811.2,"body":"tradition. And I always heard my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1807.21,"endTime":1811.2,"body":"own tradition being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1811.2,"endTime":1814.2,"body":"characterized as sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1811.2,"endTime":1814.2,"body":"backwards or superstitious,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1814.86,"endTime":1818.19,"body":"particularly in terms of being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1814.86,"endTime":1818.19,"body":"polytheistic, right? And Ilyse"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1818.19,"endTime":1824.1,"body":"can tell you way more about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1818.19,"endTime":1824.1,"body":"that. You know, so part of it is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1824.1,"endTime":1827.82,"body":"personal, this idea that like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1824.1,"endTime":1827.82,"body":"um- but as far as religious"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1827.82,"endTime":1830.91,"body":"traditions are concerned, like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1827.82,"endTime":1830.91,"body":"why are we treating this one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1830.91,"endTime":1834.63,"body":"tradition differently than we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1830.91,"endTime":1834.63,"body":"treat other traditions? Right,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1834.63,"endTime":1839.16,"body":"like it is, as politically, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1834.63,"endTime":1839.16,"body":"know, embedded, culturally"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1839.16,"endTime":1840.93,"body":"embedded as anything else that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1839.16,"endTime":1840.93,"body":"we study?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1840.93,"endTime":1840.99,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1841.41,"endTime":1841.92,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1843.55,"endTime":1845.74,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1843.55,"endTime":1845.74,"body":"that's so helpful. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1846.13,"endTime":1849.04,"body":"And I guess- I guess I've got"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1846.13,"endTime":1849.04,"body":"one more question. Goodwin I'm"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1849.04,"endTime":1850.21,"body":"just gonna- I'm gonna take it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1850.21,"endTime":1850.51,"body":"Yeah, do it."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1850.63,"endTime":1852.88,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1850.63,"endTime":1852.88,"body":"when we chatted, Shaily, to set"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1852.88,"endTime":1856.3,"body":"up this episode, we like begged"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1852.88,"endTime":1856.3,"body":"you to come on, and said,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1856.3,"endTime":1858.88,"body":"\"Please, please, please, we need"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1856.3,"endTime":1858.88,"body":"someone who knows something"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1858.88,"endTime":1861.16,"body":"about the Bible,\" because I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1858.88,"endTime":1861.16,"body":"clearly think I have my own"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1861.16,"endTime":1862.18,"body":"canon now."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1863.05,"endTime":1863.83,"body":"You do have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1863.05,"endTime":1863.83,"body":"your own canon."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1863.83,"endTime":1866.65,"body":"I love this so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1863.83,"endTime":1866.65,"body":"much, congratulations!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1867.77,"endTime":1870.32,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1867.77,"endTime":1870.32,"body":"thanks. You're welcome. You said"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1870.32,"endTime":1873.71,"body":"that Christianity doesn't exist"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1870.32,"endTime":1873.71,"body":"in the texts that I work with,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1873.71,"endTime":1878.18,"body":"but magic does. And I have to"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1873.71,"endTime":1878.18,"body":"say that line blew my little"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1878.18,"endTime":1883.19,"body":"mind. Can you teach me how"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1878.18,"endTime":1883.19,"body":"that's possible that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1883.19,"endTime":1887.12,"body":"Christianity is not in the text"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1883.19,"endTime":1887.12,"body":"that you work with, but magic is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1887.12,"endTime":1890.9,"body":"there? What does that mean? Just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1887.12,"endTime":1890.9,"body":"like that blew my mind, I just"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1890.9,"endTime":1893.42,"body":"want to hear you talk more about"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1890.9,"endTime":1893.42,"body":"it. Cuz I obviously have a lot"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1893.42,"endTime":1893.81,"body":"to learn."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1894.53,"endTime":1896.12,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1894.53,"endTime":1896.12,"body":"this is what's gonna get me in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1896.12,"endTime":1901.34,"body":"trouble when the book comes out."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1896.12,"endTime":1901.34,"body":"Saying stuff like this. Um, so I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1901.34,"endTime":1904.25,"body":"will say, you know, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1901.34,"endTime":1904.25,"body":"state it as strongly in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1904.25,"endTime":1909.47,"body":"book. So what I'm- what I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1904.25,"endTime":1909.47,"body":"trying to say is that- so like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1909.47,"endTime":1911.3,"body":"the texts that we're talking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1909.47,"endTime":1911.3,"body":"about, right, like Matthew,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1911.3,"endTime":1917.78,"body":"Mark, Luke, John, Paul, they are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1911.3,"endTime":1917.78,"body":"trying to figure out what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1917.78,"endTime":1922.04,"body":"Christianity is, right. So like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1917.78,"endTime":1922.04,"body":"Christianity doesn't exist as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1922.04,"endTime":1926.27,"body":"such as a thing like we've been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1922.04,"endTime":1926.27,"body":"talking about- this monolithic,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1926.3,"endTime":1930.29,"body":"you know, stable, religious"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1926.3,"endTime":1930.29,"body":"tradition. It doesn't exist in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1930.29,"endTime":1932.03,"body":"Matthew, Mark, Luke and John,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1930.29,"endTime":1932.03,"body":"right. Like, this is why"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1932.03,"endTime":1935.72,"body":"Matthew- or I'm sorry, this is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1932.03,"endTime":1935.72,"body":"why Mark's Jesus is not God."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1935.72,"endTime":1939.77,"body":"Right? And we're still trying to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1935.72,"endTime":1939.77,"body":"figure this out. And so- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1939.77,"endTime":1942.26,"body":"frankly, these are Jewish"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1939.77,"endTime":1942.26,"body":"writers, right? Like-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1943.04,"endTime":1944.96,"body":"Wait the people"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1943.04,"endTime":1944.96,"body":"who- wait, wait, wait, the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1944.96,"endTime":1947.27,"body":"people who wrote the Gospels"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":1944.96,"endTime":1947.27,"body":"were not Christian?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1948.74,"endTime":1950.27,"body":"I mean, they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1948.74,"endTime":1950.27,"body":"were Jewish. Right? Like- and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1951.62,"endTime":1954.71,"body":"the other thing I have to, like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1951.62,"endTime":1954.71,"body":"tell my students, right like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1954.74,"endTime":1956.0,"body":"Jesus was Jewish."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1956.99,"endTime":1958.37,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1956.99,"endTime":1958.37,"body":"one I know- that one I know."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1958.37,"endTime":1961.22,"body":"That's a good Jew knee-jerk"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":1958.37,"endTime":1961.22,"body":"response."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1965.23,"endTime":1970.6,"body":"Yeah so this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1965.23,"endTime":1970.6,"body":"is one of the big questions that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1970.69,"endTime":1974.29,"body":"our writers are trying to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1970.69,"endTime":1974.29,"body":"answer, is how to be Christian."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1974.29,"endTime":1978.04,"body":"And one of the negotiations they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1974.29,"endTime":1978.04,"body":"have to make of course, is how"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1978.07,"endTime":1985.54,"body":"do we relate to Judaisms in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1978.07,"endTime":1985.54,"body":"plural, right? So Christianity"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1985.54,"endTime":1990.37,"body":"is not established by any means"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1985.54,"endTime":1990.37,"body":"in the text that I study. And I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1990.37,"endTime":1992.53,"body":"think we do ourselves a great"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1990.37,"endTime":1992.53,"body":"disservice when we take it for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1992.53,"endTime":1995.77,"body":"granted that there is such a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1992.53,"endTime":1995.77,"body":"thing as a Christianity and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1995.77,"endTime":2002.73,"body":"these texts, right? So I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":1995.77,"endTime":2002.73,"body":"trying to- to- to see how these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2002.73,"endTime":2006.48,"body":"texts are starting the process"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2002.73,"endTime":2006.48,"body":"of defining Christianity."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2006.78,"endTime":2008.67,"body":"And if I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2006.78,"endTime":2008.67,"body":"hearing you correctly, part of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2008.67,"endTime":2011.85,"body":"how they define Christianity is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2008.67,"endTime":2011.85,"body":"in relationship to this like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2012.09,"endTime":2015.18,"body":"Greco-Roman thinking about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2012.09,"endTime":2015.18,"body":"magic."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2015.42,"endTime":2019.56,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2015.42,"endTime":2019.56,"body":"so. Right? People have been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2019.56,"endTime":2023.13,"body":"calling other people magicians"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2019.56,"endTime":2023.13,"body":"before Christianity showed up,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2023.13,"endTime":2028.74,"body":"right? Um, and you know, magic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2023.13,"endTime":2028.74,"body":"has this- this long history. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2029.1,"endTime":2033.33,"body":"magic is not always negatively"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2029.1,"endTime":2033.33,"body":"evaluated in the ancient world."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2033.33,"endTime":2038.1,"body":"So like, for example, we do have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2033.33,"endTime":2038.1,"body":"Greco-Roman authors who valorize"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2038.13,"endTime":2041.07,"body":"this tradition of Persian magic,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2038.13,"endTime":2041.07,"body":"right? And this is where we get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2041.07,"endTime":2046.56,"body":"something like Matthew's magi."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2041.07,"endTime":2046.56,"body":"So we have this long tradition"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2046.56,"endTime":2049.71,"body":"of magic, which is not always"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2046.56,"endTime":2049.71,"body":"negative, which includes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2049.98,"endTime":2053.31,"body":"accusations of people being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2049.98,"endTime":2053.31,"body":"called magicians in a negative"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2053.31,"endTime":2057.75,"body":"way, but also people willingly"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2053.31,"endTime":2057.75,"body":"calling themselves magicians,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2057.99,"endTime":2062.22,"body":"and also practices that are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2057.99,"endTime":2062.22,"body":"thought of, stereotypically, as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2062.22,"endTime":2066.6,"body":"being magical and all of that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2062.22,"endTime":2066.6,"body":"predates Christianity. So now"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2066.6,"endTime":2071.01,"body":"you have a protagonist, Jesus,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2066.6,"endTime":2071.01,"body":"in our Christian texts, who is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2071.01,"endTime":2078.06,"body":"doing the same sorts of things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2071.01,"endTime":2078.06,"body":"that these magicians did. And so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2078.06,"endTime":2084.75,"body":"part of defining Christianity"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2078.06,"endTime":2084.75,"body":"comes from defining Jesus vis a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2084.75,"endTime":2089.25,"body":"vis these other people who look"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2084.75,"endTime":2089.25,"body":"a lot like Jesus in terms of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2089.34,"endTime":2090.36,"body":"things that they're doing."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2091.53,"endTime":2092.79,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2091.53,"endTime":2092.79,"body":"really interesting."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2093.03,"endTime":2094.62,"body":"And having long"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2093.03,"endTime":2094.62,"body":"wizard beards, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2095.4,"endTime":2096.33,"body":"And having"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2095.4,"endTime":2096.33,"body":"what?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2096.45,"endTime":2099.54,"body":"Long wizard"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2096.45,"endTime":2099.54,"body":"beards? No, sorry I'm just-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2099.0,"endTime":2101.91,"body":"Megan,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2099.0,"endTime":2101.91,"body":"you're just being a jerk."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2102.9,"endTime":2104.85,"body":"Long wizard"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2102.9,"endTime":2104.85,"body":"beards- that's- that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2104.85,"endTime":2105.48,"body":"confirmed."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2106.74,"endTime":2109.98,"body":"It's possible"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2106.74,"endTime":2109.98,"body":"that my Christian upbringing is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2110.76,"endTime":2116.19,"body":"making me a little salty about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2110.76,"endTime":2116.19,"body":"historical Jesus, wizard beard"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2116.19,"endTime":2116.52,"body":"or otherwise."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2116.52,"endTime":2118.5,"body":"I'm salty"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2116.52,"endTime":2118.5,"body":"about historical Jesus and I do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2118.5,"endTime":2122.37,"body":"this for a living, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2118.5,"endTime":2122.37,"body":"yeah, I get it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2124.95,"endTime":2126.12,"body":"Alright I'm"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2124.95,"endTime":2126.12,"body":"sorry, I will try to keep it in"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2126.12,"endTime":2126.78,"body":"my wizard robes."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2136.14,"endTime":2139.08,"body":"When"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2136.14,"endTime":2139.08,"body":"in doubt, go to the library of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2139.08,"endTime":2140.34,"body":"PRIMARY SOURCES."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2140.52,"endTime":2141.0,"body":"[singing] primary"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2140.52,"endTime":2141.0,"body":"sources!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2141.0,"endTime":2144.39,"body":"[singing]"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2141.0,"endTime":2144.39,"body":"primary sources! It's a duet!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2146.49,"endTime":2153.03,"body":"I'm so happy! Oh,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2146.49,"endTime":2153.03,"body":"right. It's my turn! I just got"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2153.03,"endTime":2156.75,"body":"so excited about the duet. As a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2153.03,"endTime":2156.75,"body":"way to focus in on primary"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2156.75,"endTime":2160.86,"body":"sources, Shaily, can you tell us"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2156.75,"endTime":2160.86,"body":"why religion? Why do you want to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2160.86,"endTime":2163.74,"body":"work on religion? Why do you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2160.86,"endTime":2163.74,"body":"want to work on this project, or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2163.74,"endTime":2167.04,"body":"these intersection of questions?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2163.74,"endTime":2167.04,"body":"Like not just why it's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2167.04,"endTime":2170.04,"body":"interesting, but like, where do"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2167.04,"endTime":2170.04,"body":"you fit into your work?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2172.1,"endTime":2174.32,"body":"Like I said, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2172.1,"endTime":2174.32,"body":"think this is deeply personal"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2174.32,"endTime":2178.43,"body":"for me on a number of fronts."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2174.32,"endTime":2178.43,"body":"One, is that just coming from a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2178.43,"endTime":2184.67,"body":"tradition, which is in the West,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2178.43,"endTime":2184.67,"body":"devalued, made me pay attention"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2184.67,"endTime":2189.32,"body":"to the ways in which traditions"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2184.67,"endTime":2189.32,"body":"are delegitimated, right? And so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2189.32,"endTime":2193.1,"body":"calling somebody a magician is,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2189.32,"endTime":2193.1,"body":"in fact, one of the ways that we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2193.1,"endTime":2199.58,"body":"do this. And the other thing is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2193.1,"endTime":2199.58,"body":"that I want to sort of focus on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2199.58,"endTime":2204.74,"body":"practices as- as a way of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2199.58,"endTime":2204.74,"body":"religious meaning-making,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2205.64,"endTime":2209.39,"body":"because we talk about theology"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2205.64,"endTime":2209.39,"body":"and Christian texts all the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2209.39,"endTime":2212.18,"body":"time, right? Like, Megan will"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2209.39,"endTime":2212.18,"body":"tell you, like, we have all"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2212.18,"endTime":2216.23,"body":"these books on like Pauline"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2212.18,"endTime":2216.23,"body":"theology, and I want to talk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2216.23,"endTime":2219.35,"body":"about like, okay, but what about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2216.23,"endTime":2219.35,"body":"the practices that are narrated"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2219.35,"endTime":2222.95,"body":"in the text? Right, like, what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2219.35,"endTime":2222.95,"body":"do they tell us about how"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2222.95,"endTime":2227.6,"body":"Christians are defining"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2222.95,"endTime":2227.6,"body":"themselves? What- what do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2227.6,"endTime":2230.42,"body":"exorcisms tell us, and there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2227.6,"endTime":2230.42,"body":"been some really good work done"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2230.42,"endTime":2233.33,"body":"on this, and so what I'm trying"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2230.42,"endTime":2233.33,"body":"to do really is basically put"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2233.33,"endTime":2236.99,"body":"that work in conversation with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2233.33,"endTime":2236.99,"body":"work coming out of classics,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2236.99,"endTime":2239.84,"body":"right? And so, again, this is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2236.99,"endTime":2239.84,"body":"personal, right? Like Hinduism"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2239.84,"endTime":2243.05,"body":"is, or at least the version of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2239.84,"endTime":2243.05,"body":"Hinduism that's practiced in my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2243.05,"endTime":2247.01,"body":"home is deeply embedded in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2243.05,"endTime":2247.01,"body":"ritual practice, right? Like, my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2247.01,"endTime":2250.67,"body":"mom does not care what I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2247.01,"endTime":2250.67,"body":"personally believe, and who I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2250.67,"endTime":2253.82,"body":"have accepted as my Lord and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2250.67,"endTime":2253.82,"body":"personal Savior, she really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2253.82,"endTime":2258.41,"body":"needs me to light my diwal or on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2253.82,"endTime":2258.41,"body":"certain times, because if I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2258.41,"endTime":2263.84,"body":"don't, she's gonna be mad. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2258.41,"endTime":2263.84,"body":"there is this personal element,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2263.84,"endTime":2268.73,"body":"like, you know, to sort of say,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2263.84,"endTime":2268.73,"body":"hey, like, I know we try to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2268.73,"endTime":2272.51,"body":"think of Christianity as this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2268.73,"endTime":2272.51,"body":"vastly different tradition"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2272.51,"endTime":2276.53,"body":"compared to other traditions,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2272.51,"endTime":2276.53,"body":"but in fact, it's not. And so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2276.53,"endTime":2280.76,"body":"that's- that's really where I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2276.53,"endTime":2280.76,"body":"fit in, in terms of why I do the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2280.76,"endTime":2282.74,"body":"work that I do and why I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2280.76,"endTime":2282.74,"body":"it's important to me."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2284.24,"endTime":2286.31,"body":"I love"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2284.24,"endTime":2286.31,"body":"that. I love that especially"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2286.31,"endTime":2290.48,"body":"because any shout out of a mom"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2286.31,"endTime":2290.48,"body":"here on Keeping It 101 is, like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2290.48,"endTime":2291.65,"body":"right up our alley."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2292.1,"endTime":2294.02,"body":"Hey, Tara,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2292.1,"endTime":2294.02,"body":"what's up?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2295.98,"endTime":2298.83,"body":"No, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2295.98,"endTime":2298.83,"body":"thinking like, obvi- obviously"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2300.15,"endTime":2303.72,"body":"talk of Jesus has triggered me"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2300.15,"endTime":2303.72,"body":"into being a total jerk. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2303.72,"endTime":2307.74,"body":"making way too many wizard"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2303.72,"endTime":2307.74,"body":"jokes. And that is- that is my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2307.74,"endTime":2311.07,"body":"truth. Honestly, like I have"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2307.74,"endTime":2311.07,"body":"shared I think before once or"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2311.07,"endTime":2314.85,"body":"twice that I did a lot of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2311.07,"endTime":2314.85,"body":"parochial school growing up. Uh,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2315.06,"endTime":2317.37,"body":"13 years kindergarten through"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2315.06,"endTime":2317.37,"body":"12th, people talk about it like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2317.37,"endTime":2320.55,"body":"a prison sentence, like how long"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2317.37,"endTime":2320.55,"body":"were you in for, um- yes true"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2320.55,"endTime":2327.45,"body":"story. Uh, and I just- I am"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2320.55,"endTime":2327.45,"body":"sitting with the moment where I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2327.45,"endTime":2330.84,"body":"realized that not all"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2327.45,"endTime":2330.84,"body":"Christianity was Catholicism."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2331.44,"endTime":2335.58,"body":"And that moment was when I went"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2331.44,"endTime":2335.58,"body":"to Bible camp kind of by"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2335.58,"endTime":2340.74,"body":"accident? My- one of my closest"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2335.58,"endTime":2340.74,"body":"friends in grade school was"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2340.74,"endTime":2343.08,"body":"like, I guess now we would think"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2340.74,"endTime":2343.08,"body":"of her as a charismatic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2343.08,"endTime":2346.56,"body":"Catholic, I don't know that I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2343.08,"endTime":2346.56,"body":"knew those words in like seventh"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2346.56,"endTime":2351.42,"body":"and eighth grade, but she went"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2346.56,"endTime":2351.42,"body":"to Bible camp every summer and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2351.42,"endTime":2355.08,"body":"she encouraged a bunch of us to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2351.42,"endTime":2355.08,"body":"go with her. And I showed up and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2355.08,"endTime":2361.65,"body":"I was like deeply into Jesus at"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2355.08,"endTime":2361.65,"body":"this time. And I learned that A)"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2361.65,"endTime":2364.65,"body":"there are different kinds of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2361.65,"endTime":2364.65,"body":"Christianities and B) a lot of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2364.65,"endTime":2367.2,"body":"those kinds of Christianities"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2364.65,"endTime":2367.2,"body":"don't think that Catholicism is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2367.2,"endTime":2370.95,"body":"a kind of Christianity. That was"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2367.2,"endTime":2370.95,"body":"like, really surprising, I got a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2370.95,"endTime":2373.17,"body":"lot of like, \"Oh, so you worship"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2370.95,"endTime":2373.17,"body":"Mary.\" And I was like, \"I don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2373.92,"endTime":2378.21,"body":"think that I do? This is news to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2373.92,"endTime":2378.21,"body":"me?\""},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2378.69,"endTime":2380.7,"body":"Again, this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2378.69,"endTime":2380.7,"body":"blew my mind too when I first"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2380.7,"endTime":2382.98,"body":"encountered it, I was like what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2380.7,"endTime":2382.98,"body":"do you mean Catholicism is not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2382.98,"endTime":2383.52,"body":"Christianity."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2383.58,"endTime":2386.46,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2383.58,"endTime":2386.46,"body":"So there was that- And then"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2386.46,"endTime":2389.61,"body":"there was like, Oh, wait, hold"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2386.46,"endTime":2389.61,"body":"up. We got different Bibles."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2390.0,"endTime":2390.3,"body":"Your-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2390.3,"endTime":2391.14,"body":"OH YES, yeah."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2391.17,"endTime":2392.79,"body":"Your 10"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2391.17,"endTime":2392.79,"body":"Commandments are in a different"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2392.79,"endTime":2395.19,"body":"order than mine are and like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2392.79,"endTime":2395.19,"body":"mine have books that you don't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2395.19,"endTime":2402.87,"body":"have? Wha- So that was- that was"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2395.19,"endTime":2402.87,"body":"something... but I did A) win"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2402.87,"endTime":2406.89,"body":"the talent show because of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2402.87,"endTime":2406.89,"body":"course I did. B) learn a number"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2406.92,"endTime":2410.88,"body":"of jaunty songs including why"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2406.92,"endTime":2410.88,"body":"you can't get to heaven on"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2410.88,"endTime":2413.46,"body":"rollerskates, the answer is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2410.88,"endTime":2413.46,"body":"because you roll right past"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2413.46,"endTime":2414.27,"body":"those pearly gates."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2415.47,"endTime":2415.92,"body":"No...."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2416.55,"endTime":2417.18,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2417.0,"endTime":2420.63,"body":"Your"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2417.0,"endTime":2420.63,"body":"Christian camp upsets me so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2420.84,"endTime":2423.48,"body":"much. It upsets me as a camper."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2423.48,"endTime":2423.69,"body":"Yeah, it should."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2423.78,"endTime":2426.03,"body":"I am"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2423.78,"endTime":2426.03,"body":"devastated."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2426.15,"endTime":2428.1,"body":"You also can't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2426.15,"endTime":2428.1,"body":"get to have it on the Frankfurt"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2428.1,"endTime":2429.3,"body":"Ellen. Do you know why Ilyse?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2430.53,"endTime":2431.25,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2431.55,"endTime":2432.69,"body":"Because the"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2431.55,"endTime":2432.69,"body":"Frankfurt El goes straight to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2432.69,"endTime":2433.14,"body":"Frankfurt."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2433.8,"endTime":2435.54,"body":"What?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2433.8,"endTime":2435.54,"body":"I don't get it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2436.77,"endTime":2438.78,"body":"Cuz it's supposed"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2436.77,"endTime":2438.78,"body":"to rhyme, right? Like you can't"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2438.78,"endTime":2441.69,"body":"get to heavan on Frankfurt El,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2438.78,"endTime":2441.69,"body":"it goes straight to Frankfurt-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2441.72,"endTime":2442.23,"body":"It's a joke."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2442.26,"endTime":2444.54,"body":"Sure,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2442.26,"endTime":2444.54,"body":"but like get it together."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2444.63,"endTime":2445.86,"body":"It's Christian"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2444.63,"endTime":2445.86,"body":"humor. It's not funny."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2445.89,"endTime":2446.19,"body":"No-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2445.89,"endTime":2446.19,"body":"exactly."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2446.19,"endTime":2446.58,"body":"Anyway."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2447.66,"endTime":2450.09,"body":"Again,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2447.66,"endTime":2450.09,"body":"I'm offended in my Catskills."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2450.09,"endTime":2450.78,"body":"Keep that from me."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2450.37,"endTime":2452.05,"body":"That's fair."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2450.37,"endTime":2452.05,"body":"That's fair. That's fair. So A)"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2452.08,"endTime":2454.51,"body":"learned about different Bibles,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2452.08,"endTime":2454.51,"body":"B) apparently I worshipped Mary"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2454.51,"endTime":2458.26,"body":"the whole time, didn't know"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2454.51,"endTime":2458.26,"body":"about it, C) bad jokes, and D)"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2455.13,"endTime":2455.97,"body":"Oh no."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2458.26,"endTime":2460.78,"body":"definitely learn to shoot a .22"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2458.26,"endTime":2460.78,"body":"so-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2462.0,"endTime":2462.78,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2462.81,"endTime":2470.16,"body":"Yes. And so,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2462.81,"endTime":2470.16,"body":"Christianity is complicated."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2470.61,"endTime":2473.13,"body":"It is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2470.61,"endTime":2473.13,"body":"complicated. Wow, guys, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2473.13,"endTime":2476.34,"body":"realizing there's like three of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2473.13,"endTime":2476.34,"body":"us on this call. And two of us"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2476.34,"endTime":2479.64,"body":"have accidentally- I don't know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2476.34,"endTime":2479.64,"body":"about Ilyse, but I too, have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2479.64,"endTime":2482.73,"body":"accidentally gone to Sunday"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2479.64,"endTime":2482.73,"body":"School."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2482.82,"endTime":2483.33,"body":"Oh no."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2483.36,"endTime":2484.74,"body":"What?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2483.36,"endTime":2484.74,"body":"No, why, how?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2485.01,"endTime":2485.64,"body":"What happened?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2486.26,"endTime":2488.54,"body":"My parents,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2486.26,"endTime":2488.54,"body":"like- so I lived in North"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2488.54,"endTime":2491.75,"body":"Carolina in Marion, North"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2488.54,"endTime":2491.75,"body":"Carolina, which is a small town."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2492.05,"endTime":2497.0,"body":"And the local church basically"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2492.05,"endTime":2497.0,"body":"wrote around and invited parents"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2497.0,"endTime":2500.9,"body":"with children to send their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2497.0,"endTime":2500.9,"body":"children to Sunday School. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2500.9,"endTime":2509.81,"body":"my parents are immigrants and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2500.9,"endTime":2509.81,"body":"they were like, more math and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2509.81,"endTime":2516.74,"body":"science on Sunday. And they were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2509.81,"endTime":2516.74,"body":"like, sure, yeah, right? And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2516.74,"endTime":2519.71,"body":"then, like, after two or three"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2516.74,"endTime":2519.71,"body":"weeks, I was telling them they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2519.71,"endTime":2521.63,"body":"were going to go to hell and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2519.71,"endTime":2521.63,"body":"they were like maybe Sunday"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2521.63,"endTime":2523.55,"body":"School was a bad idea."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2523.55,"endTime":2524.81,"body":"This is a"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2523.55,"endTime":2524.81,"body":"different understanding of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2524.81,"endTime":2526.07,"body":"school than I was led to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2524.81,"endTime":2526.07,"body":"believe."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2528.14,"endTime":2531.29,"body":"I am"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2528.14,"endTime":2531.29,"body":"traumatized by the id- Like when"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2531.29,"endTime":2534.17,"body":"you told that story, my brain"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2531.29,"endTime":2534.17,"body":"was like the church had a van,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2534.26,"endTime":2536.78,"body":"it rounded up the brown"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2534.26,"endTime":2536.78,"body":"children, and now I'm upset."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2536.81,"endTime":2538.88,"body":"Like. I am horrified."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2541.82,"endTime":2544.67,"body":"It was- it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2541.82,"endTime":2544.67,"body":"an experience. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2544.67,"endTime":2546.65,"body":"you're so young and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2544.67,"endTime":2546.65,"body":"impressionable at that age that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2546.65,"endTime":2549.68,"body":"like I really believed growing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2546.65,"endTime":2549.68,"body":"up that I was going to hell,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2549.68,"endTime":2550.25,"body":"right? Like-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2550.25,"endTime":2550.94,"body":"Oh girl same."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2552.7,"endTime":2554.14,"body":"Megan did you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2552.7,"endTime":2554.14,"body":"like come out of that, like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2554.14,"endTime":2557.56,"body":"really believing that, like, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2554.14,"endTime":2557.56,"body":"worship Mary and this was hugely"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2557.56,"endTime":2558.43,"body":"problematic, and-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2558.46,"endTime":2560.83,"body":"So that piece"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2558.46,"endTime":2560.83,"body":"less so because I was older. But"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2560.83,"endTime":2563.53,"body":"the piece where I think- no, I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2560.83,"endTime":2563.53,"body":"know- I know, actually that it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2563.53,"endTime":2565.72,"body":"was second grade, because we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2563.53,"endTime":2565.72,"body":"were doing communion and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2566.11,"endTime":2569.71,"body":"reconciliation as sacraments."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2566.11,"endTime":2569.71,"body":"And we did a whole like if you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2569.71,"endTime":2571.27,"body":"break any of the 10"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2569.71,"endTime":2571.27,"body":"Commandments, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2571.27,"endTime":2576.34,"body":"hell. And I'm, like, okay, like"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2571.27,"endTime":2576.34,"body":"a deeply literal / again,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2576.34,"endTime":2579.52,"body":"probably on the spectrum, child."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2576.34,"endTime":2579.52,"body":"So I am taking this very"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2579.52,"endTime":2582.76,"body":"literally, and we did not get"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2579.52,"endTime":2582.76,"body":"til- we did not get to penance"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2582.76,"endTime":2586.3,"body":"and reconciliation until Monday."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2582.76,"endTime":2586.3,"body":"So like Friday, you- like you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2586.3,"endTime":2589.09,"body":"break any commandment, you're"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2586.3,"endTime":2589.09,"body":"going to hell, and like, I've"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2589.09,"endTime":2591.04,"body":"talked a little bit about my"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2589.09,"endTime":2591.04,"body":"relationship with my mother so I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2591.04,"endTime":2593.86,"body":"definitely broke at least one"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2591.04,"endTime":2593.86,"body":"commandment. That happens"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2593.86,"endTime":2596.56,"body":"Friday, I spend the entire"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2593.86,"endTime":2596.56,"body":"weekend being like, \"Uh, this is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2596.56,"endTime":2600.61,"body":"it for me. I'm done.\" Seven"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2596.56,"endTime":2600.61,"body":"years old, and I'm done. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2600.61,"endTime":2603.58,"body":"then Monday is like just"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2600.61,"endTime":2603.58,"body":"kidding, because priests can"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2603.58,"endTime":2608.8,"body":"make your sins go away. Um, and"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2603.58,"endTime":2608.8,"body":"yet I stayed Catholic for like,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2608.8,"endTime":2613.9,"body":"another 10 years. Anyway- Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2608.8,"endTime":2613.9,"body":"it's a lot. Anyway, sometimes we"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2613.9,"endTime":2615.76,"body":"make Jesus jokes because, pain."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2617.85,"endTime":2620.64,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2617.85,"endTime":2620.64,"body":"no, I can't follow any of that."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2620.85,"endTime":2625.53,"body":"I can't- I like,  alright, I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2620.85,"endTime":2625.53,"body":"guess I have to go. My primary"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2625.53,"endTime":2629.25,"body":"source is that I'm a Jewish"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2625.53,"endTime":2629.25,"body":"person who was never ever"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2629.25,"endTime":2632.07,"body":"hoodwinked into Sunday School or"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2629.25,"endTime":2632.07,"body":"Jesus camp."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2632.07,"endTime":2632.55,"body":"Thank God."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2633.48,"endTime":2636.51,"body":"But I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2633.48,"endTime":2636.51,"body":"do remember being so mad, and"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2636.51,"endTime":2639.66,"body":"this will shock none of you any,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2636.51,"endTime":2639.66,"body":"I remember being so mad because"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2639.66,"endTime":2645.78,"body":"all the CCD kids had basketball"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2639.66,"endTime":2645.78,"body":"leagues and like sports leagues,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2645.93,"endTime":2649.44,"body":"where you had to be a member of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2645.93,"endTime":2649.44,"body":"the church to go and I remember"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2649.44,"endTime":2651.54,"body":"just being like, well, I guess I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2649.44,"endTime":2651.54,"body":"don't play basketball then"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2651.54,"endTime":2656.85,"body":"because I don't dribble for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2651.54,"endTime":2656.85,"body":"Jesus. Like this is not- But I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2656.88,"endTime":2660.36,"body":"also- I also remember vividly"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2656.88,"endTime":2660.36,"body":"like one of my favorite stories"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2660.36,"endTime":2662.85,"body":"about- I'm going to tell a Kevin"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2660.36,"endTime":2662.85,"body":"primary source, my husband"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2662.85,"endTime":2663.0,"body":"Kevin,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2663.0,"endTime":2663.24,"body":"Yay!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2663.24,"endTime":2663.3,"body":"Yay!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2664.38,"endTime":2666.06,"body":"Who"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2664.38,"endTime":2666.06,"body":"was a big old nothing growing"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2666.06,"endTime":2669.87,"body":"up, for all good reasons, both"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2666.06,"endTime":2669.87,"body":"because his dad was like, a-"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2670.32,"endTime":2671.76,"body":"A different kind"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2670.32,"endTime":2671.76,"body":"of big old nothing."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2671.81,"endTime":2674.18,"body":"Well"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2671.81,"endTime":2674.18,"body":"no, but a lifer in Catholic"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2674.18,"endTime":2676.52,"body":"schools, and his mom is deaf, so"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2674.18,"endTime":2676.52,"body":"like-"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2676.0,"endTime":2676.09,"body":"A \"lifer\"..."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2677.0,"endTime":2679.25,"body":"Didn't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2677.0,"endTime":2679.25,"body":"have access to church spaces."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2680.39,"endTime":2683.66,"body":"And so what they would do cuz"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2680.39,"endTime":2683.66,"body":"Kevin and his brother are really"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2683.66,"endTime":2686.3,"body":"good at sports, they would shop"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2683.66,"endTime":2686.3,"body":"around for who is going to have"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2686.3,"endTime":2689.75,"body":"like the best team and then"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2686.3,"endTime":2689.75,"body":"like, go to that church for a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2689.75,"endTime":2692.81,"body":"couple days and then join that"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2689.75,"endTime":2692.81,"body":"basketball team. So like one"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2692.81,"endTime":2695.48,"body":"year they were the Methodists,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2692.81,"endTime":2695.48,"body":"one year they were like, the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2695.48,"endTime":2698.27,"body":"Baptists, one year they were the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2695.48,"endTime":2698.27,"body":"Catholics, and like- they were"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2698.93,"endTime":2702.35,"body":"like, telling me this story of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2698.93,"endTime":2702.35,"body":"like all these different Jesus"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2702.35,"endTime":2704.63,"body":"basketball teams, but it was"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2702.35,"endTime":2704.63,"body":"really like who was going to be"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2704.63,"endTime":2708.8,"body":"the good team that year? And I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2704.63,"endTime":2708.8,"body":"was like, you shopped your God"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2708.8,"endTime":2711.8,"body":"based on who had the best ball"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2708.8,"endTime":2711.8,"body":"skills, I don't know what's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2711.8,"endTime":2714.89,"body":"going on. Have another wine"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2711.8,"endTime":2714.89,"body":"please. Like it was really like,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2715.22,"endTime":2717.83,"body":"the second time I'd met Kevin's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2715.22,"endTime":2717.83,"body":"family and I was deeply"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2717.83,"endTime":2718.64,"body":"confused."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2718.84,"endTime":2722.17,"body":"Oh, Doglovich!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2718.84,"endTime":2722.17,"body":"Comma: guess who else dribbled"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2722.17,"endTime":2723.37,"body":"for Jesus, Ilyse, guess who?"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2723.43,"endTime":2724.03,"body":"Was it"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2723.43,"endTime":2724.03,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2724.39,"endTime":2725.14,"body":"It was me."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2725.41,"endTime":2726.82,"body":"Of"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2725.41,"endTime":2726.82,"body":"course it was, you're very tall."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2728.08,"endTime":2730.6,"body":"I was- I played"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2728.08,"endTime":2730.6,"body":"for it. I was not good. But I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2730.6,"endTime":2731.2,"body":"was very tall."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2731.92,"endTime":2733.48,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2731.92,"endTime":2733.48,"body":"wouldn't- I wouldn't- I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2733.66,"endTime":2735.46,"body":"really call you the best at"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2733.66,"endTime":2735.46,"body":"basketball."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2738.22,"endTime":2740.71,"body":"Okay, my hand-eye"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2738.22,"endTime":2740.71,"body":"coordination is actually pretty"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2740.74,"endTime":2741.1,"body":"good."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2741.1,"endTime":2742.87,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2741.1,"endTime":2742.87,"body":"didn't say bad at sports, I said"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2742.87,"endTime":2745.84,"body":"bad at basketball, I would not"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2742.87,"endTime":2745.84,"body":"trust you to run and dribble a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2745.84,"endTime":2747.55,"body":"ball and shoot at a hoop at the"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2745.84,"endTime":2747.55,"body":"same time"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2747.55,"endTime":2748.48,"body":"No you should"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2747.55,"endTime":2748.48,"body":"not."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2748.0,"endTime":2750.82,"body":"It is"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2748.0,"endTime":2750.82,"body":"a specific sport critique."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2752.98,"endTime":2755.32,"body":"Too many things"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2752.98,"endTime":2755.32,"body":"happening at one time. But I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2755.32,"endTime":2758.5,"body":"did- I did make one basket"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2755.32,"endTime":2758.5,"body":"during my three year career."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2758.5,"endTime":2758.56,"body":"YAY!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2758.56,"endTime":2763.3,"body":"Thanks! And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2758.56,"endTime":2763.3,"body":"that's primary sources."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2763.3,"endTime":2764.62,"body":"We celebrate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2763.3,"endTime":2764.62,"body":"successes."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2764.65,"endTime":2765.31,"body":"Yeah, we do."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2765.79,"endTime":2767.68,"body":"Oh"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2765.79,"endTime":2767.68,"body":"man, what a primary sources."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2767.71,"endTime":2769.54,"body":"I was gonna say"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2767.71,"endTime":2769.54,"body":"Shaily will you join me and sing"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2769.54,"endTime":2773.65,"body":"us out? 1..2..3... [singing]"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2769.54,"endTime":2773.65,"body":"primary sources!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2774.16,"endTime":2774.58,"body":"[singing]"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2774.16,"endTime":2774.58,"body":"primary sources!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2776.44,"endTime":2777.43,"body":"Yes, this is"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2776.44,"endTime":2777.43,"body":"amazing."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2778.6,"endTime":2780.52,"body":"Don't"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2778.6,"endTime":2780.52,"body":"pick up yet, nerds. You've got"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2780.52,"endTime":2781.51,"body":"HOMEWORK."},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":2781.66,"endTime":2783.31,"body":"Homework, what"},{"speaker":"Simpsons","startTime":2781.66,"endTime":2783.31,"body":"homework?"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2783.82,"endTime":2785.59,"body":"In the last"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2783.82,"endTime":2785.59,"body":"episode, we assigned lots of"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2785.59,"endTime":2788.32,"body":"things to prepare our beloved"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2785.59,"endTime":2788.32,"body":"nerds for your classroom visit"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2788.32,"endTime":2792.37,"body":"today, Dr. Patel, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2788.32,"endTime":2792.37,"body":"much for joining us. And"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2792.4,"endTime":2795.88,"body":"following Dr. Judith Weisenfeld"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2792.4,"endTime":2795.88,"body":"in Season Two, we thought we'd"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2795.88,"endTime":2801.22,"body":"ask our guests what you've"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2795.88,"endTime":2801.22,"body":"written or- or done, produced,"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2801.22,"endTime":2804.46,"body":"created, that you're most proud"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2801.22,"endTime":2804.46,"body":"of? What are- what are you proud"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2804.0,"endTime":2808.26,"body":"So you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2804.0,"endTime":2808.26,"body":"unfortunately, it's not out yet."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2804.46,"endTime":2804.7,"body":"of?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2808.26,"endTime":2812.07,"body":"But I am really proud of this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2808.26,"endTime":2812.07,"body":"book that I'm working on, about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2812.07,"endTime":2815.4,"body":"how magic and Christian"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2812.07,"endTime":2815.4,"body":"self-definition sort of go hand"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2815.4,"endTime":2818.94,"body":"in hand. Because we have talked"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2815.4,"endTime":2818.94,"body":"about magic and early"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2818.94,"endTime":2822.99,"body":"Christianity and whether or not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2818.94,"endTime":2822.99,"body":"Jesus could be considered a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2822.99,"endTime":2825.51,"body":"magician. And to me like, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2822.99,"endTime":2825.51,"body":"not the most interesting"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2825.51,"endTime":2829.26,"body":"question. The most interesting"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2825.51,"endTime":2829.26,"body":"question is like, how does magic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2829.26,"endTime":2833.55,"body":"work? Vis a vis Christianity,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2829.26,"endTime":2833.55,"body":"right? Because those are two"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2833.79,"endTime":2838.8,"body":"concepts, right? Christianity is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2833.79,"endTime":2838.8,"body":"a concept. And right, oh my"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2838.8,"endTime":2841.65,"body":"gosh. So I'm really proud of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2838.8,"endTime":2841.65,"body":"this book. And I'm really sort"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2841.65,"endTime":2843.54,"body":"of proud of the way it's coming"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2841.65,"endTime":2843.54,"body":"together. And I really can't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2843.54,"endTime":2845.55,"body":"wait until you guys get a chance"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2843.54,"endTime":2845.55,"body":"to think about it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2845.55,"endTime":2846.18,"body":"I'm so excited!"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2846.75,"endTime":2848.25,"body":"I know. I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2846.75,"endTime":2848.25,"body":"excited too."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2849.06,"endTime":2849.63,"body":"It's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2849.06,"endTime":2849.63,"body":"great."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2850.8,"endTime":2852.3,"body":"I think so, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2850.8,"endTime":2852.3,"body":"think it will be fun."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2852.66,"endTime":2852.99,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2852.66,"endTime":2852.99,"body":"awesome."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2852.99,"endTime":2854.88,"body":"Anything else you"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2852.99,"endTime":2854.88,"body":"want to recommend that folks"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2854.88,"endTime":2855.42,"body":"check out?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2855.93,"endTime":2858.96,"body":"So for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2855.93,"endTime":2858.96,"body":"understanding how magic as a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2858.96,"endTime":2863.64,"body":"concept works in the modern"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2858.96,"endTime":2863.64,"body":"world, I really love Randall"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2863.64,"endTime":2866.31,"body":"Styers' book \"Making Magic,\""},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2863.64,"endTime":2866.31,"body":"like it's- it's a classic,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2866.31,"endTime":2870.72,"body":"right? Like, you should read it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2866.31,"endTime":2870.72,"body":"It's so good. And, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2870.72,"endTime":2873.72,"body":"you just want like a primer on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2870.72,"endTime":2873.72,"body":"magic, and how it's sort of been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2873.72,"endTime":2878.97,"body":"crafted, the Oxford Very Short"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2873.72,"endTime":2878.97,"body":"Introduction series has \"Magic,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2879.0,"endTime":2881.16,"body":"A Very Short Introduction\" by"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2879.0,"endTime":2881.16,"body":"Owen Davies."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2880.54,"endTime":2882.04,"body":"You know, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2880.54,"endTime":2882.04,"body":"think that's a good way to sort"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2881.79,"endTime":2881.91,"body":"Oh!"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2882.04,"endTime":2885.94,"body":"of get introduced to the topic"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2882.04,"endTime":2885.94,"body":"in the modern world, for Ancient"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2885.94,"endTime":2890.26,"body":"World stuff, my favorite is an"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2885.94,"endTime":2890.26,"body":"essay called \"Imagining Greek"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2890.26,"endTime":2893.98,"body":"and Roman Magic\" by Richard"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2890.26,"endTime":2893.98,"body":"Gordon. What I really like about"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2893.98,"endTime":2898.78,"body":"this essay is that it does what"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2893.98,"endTime":2898.78,"body":"you know, I'm trying to do"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2898.99,"endTime":2902.17,"body":"which is complicate how w"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2898.99,"endTime":2902.17,"body":"understand magic, right? It'"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2902.17,"endTime":2906.19,"body":"not just an accusation that yo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2902.17,"endTime":2906.19,"body":"levy against the practices o"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2906.19,"endTime":2909.37,"body":"people you don't like, right"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2906.19,"endTime":2909.37,"body":"Like, it's also practices. It'"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2909.37,"endTime":2916.06,"body":"also a way of, you know, markin"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2909.37,"endTime":2916.06,"body":"people as foreign perhaps, it"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2916.06,"endTime":2921.46,"body":"s also a way of marking yourse"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2916.06,"endTime":2921.46,"body":"f as a magician, and perhaps bei"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2921.49,"endTime":2926.32,"body":"g, you know, resistant towa"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2921.49,"endTime":2926.32,"body":"ds dominant cultures, right? So"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2926.68,"endTime":2930.46,"body":"it sort of lays out all of the w"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2926.68,"endTime":2930.46,"body":"ys in which magic can function"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2930.46,"endTime":2932.83,"body":"in the ancient world, so I wo"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2930.46,"endTime":2932.83,"body":"ld highly recommend it. It's"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2934.82,"endTime":2936.47,"body":"Yay. Well, now I"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2934.82,"endTime":2936.47,"body":"have homework."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2937.1,"endTime":2939.14,"body":"Me"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2937.1,"endTime":2939.14,"body":"too. A lot of it, apparently."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2939.95,"endTime":2941.09,"body":"It's fun"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2939.95,"endTime":2941.09,"body":"homework, I promise."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2941.09,"endTime":2941.63,"body":"Oh, totally!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2941.69,"endTime":2942.98,"body":"Oh, we"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2941.69,"endTime":2942.98,"body":"love homework here."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2944.96,"endTime":2946.1,"body":"We only do fun"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2944.96,"endTime":2946.1,"body":"homework."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2946.61,"endTime":2947.27,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2946.61,"endTime":2947.27,"body":"true."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2947.39,"endTime":2948.41,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2947.39,"endTime":2948.41,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2948.89,"endTime":2950.99,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2948.89,"endTime":2950.99,"body":"Shaily thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2950.99,"endTime":2951.98,"body":"joining us."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2952.31,"endTime":2953.09,"body":"Oh thank you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2952.31,"endTime":2953.09,"body":"guys, it was so much fun!"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2953.09,"endTime":2956.3,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2953.09,"endTime":2956.3,"body":"for sharing all of your super"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2956.3,"endTime":2959.42,"body":"smart knowledge, you could be a"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2956.3,"endTime":2959.42,"body":"wizard."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2960.2,"endTime":2960.26,"body":"Mhm."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2961.05,"endTime":2963.24,"body":"Yeah. One day."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2963.3,"endTime":2964.29,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2963.3,"endTime":2964.29,"body":"only if you wanna be."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2964.29,"endTime":2966.27,"body":"One day I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2964.29,"endTime":2966.27,"body":"gonna be a wizard. It's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2966.27,"endTime":2968.94,"body":"awesome. I'm just gonna walk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2966.27,"endTime":2968.94,"body":"around in robes."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2969.6,"endTime":2970.17,"body":"I mean-"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2970.2,"endTime":2972.33,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2970.2,"endTime":2972.33,"body":"is basically what regalia is."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2972.33,"endTime":2974.46,"body":"So, do it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2974.46,"endTime":2975.48,"body":"Yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Shaily Patel","startTime":2974.46,"endTime":2975.48,"body":"should do it."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2975.72,"endTime":2977.16,"body":"Paid enough for"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2975.72,"endTime":2977.16,"body":"it, Jesus Christ."},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2979.59,"endTime":2982.08,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ilyse Morgenstein Fuerst","startTime":2979.59,"endTime":2982.08,"body":"with that, peace out, nerds."},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2982.0,"endTime":2984.64,"body":"And do your"},{"speaker":"Megan Goodwin","startTime":2982.0,"endTime":2984.64,"body":"homework. It's on the syllabus."},{"speaker":"Life of Brian","startTime":3005.61,"endTime":3008.94,"body":"Now you listen"},{"speaker":"Life of Brian","startTime":3005.61,"endTime":3008.94,"body":"here, he's not the Messiah! He's"},{"speaker":"Life of Brian","startTime":3008.94,"endTime":3011.85,"body":"a very naughty boy! Now go away."}]}