The Poetry of Self-Discovery and Change with Judy Schenk
Dec 20, 2023
Dirigo Collective
Imagine navigating through the labyrinth of life, constantly questioning your choices and battling feelings of inadequacy. Sounds familiar? Judy Schenk, our insightful guest, primarily works with women, shedding light on the value of bravery in the face of discomfort and uncertainty. She encourages us to celebrate our achievements, however small they may seem, and confront the negative self-talk that often undermines our potential.
Judy Schenk has dedicated her life to creating beauty and grappling with life's most profound questions. From her transformative experience at the College of the Atlantic in Maine to her discovery of the B Corp community, Judy's journey is an inspiring blend of introspection and action. As the conversation evolves, Judy opens up about her passion for B Corps that prioritize people, planet, purpose, and profit. The episode concludes with a poignant recitation from her book, "Intuit: The Poems of an American Woman." Are you ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery and change with Judy?
Also...Life is encountered together. Judy would like to celebrate the symphony of voices that have shaped her and thus the words and sentiments of this podcast. This podcast is most gratefully dedicated to each of you. Chris, Brittany, Charles, Everett, Cameron, Alex, Arlo, Boden, Waylon, Braelyn, Michael, Jesse, Cody, Jennifer, Jen, Laurie, Kristin, Osaru, Kit, Liz and many others...
Imagine navigating through the labyrinth of life, constantly questioning your choices and battling feelings of inadequacy. Sounds familiar? Judy Schenk, our insightful guest, primarily works with women, shedding light on the value of bravery in the face of discomfort and uncertainty. She encourages us to celebrate our achievements, however small they may seem, and confront the negative self-talk that often undermines our potential.
Judy Schenk has dedicated her life to creating beauty and grappling with life's most profound questions. From her transformative experience at the College of the Atlantic in Maine to her discovery of the B Corp community, Judy's journey is an inspiring blend of introspection and action. As the conversation evolves, Judy opens up about her passion for B Corps that prioritize people, planet, purpose, and profit. The episode concludes with a poignant recitation from her book, "Intuit: The Poems of an American Woman." Are you ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery and change with Judy?
Also...Life is encountered together. Judy would like to celebrate the symphony of voices that have shaped her and thus the words and sentiments of this podcast. This podcast is most gratefully dedicated to each of you. Chris, Brittany, Charles, Everett, Cameron, Alex, Arlo, Boden, Waylon, Braelyn, Michael, Jesse, Cody, Jennifer, Jen, Laurie, Kristin, Osaru, Kit, Liz and many others...
These four things the people, purpose, planet and profit all are working together and I thought you know what? If I could work among or with these people and I could, through coaching, amplify their impact, then I have changed the world for good through someone else's skill and ability. That is far beyond where I could ever reach myself.
Speaker 2:
Welcome to Impact Chats, a response we did for podcasts sharing conversations with industry leaders, leveraging business as a force for good. It is such a pleasure to introduce you all to Judy Shank. Judy and I met at the BLD Southeast this past fall and I was immediately drawn to her personality. She is sweet, caring and thoughtful and, as you just heard, she's new to the B Corp community. So what better way to welcome her in than with a podcast episode here on Responsibly Different? In this episode, judy shares a bit about her journey to coaching, the difference between a coach, a consultant and a counselor. But the best part, she shares how the B Corp community is one that made her feel at home.
Speaker 2:
Judy is a woman of many talents, curiosities, responsibilities and passions. She never ceases to take the extraordinary approach to life. Judy was born in Brooklyn, new York. She traveled north to New England, attending the College of the Atlantic in Bar Harbor, maine, and graduate school at Anioc University, new England in Keen, new Hampshire. She holds a Master of Science in Organization and Management and is the founder of Judy Shank Coaching. She is a poet and a published author of Intuit, the Poems of an American Woman. Stay tuned until the end for a reading of one of her own poems. And with that let's jump into the episode. Well, welcome, judy, to the Responsibly Different podcast. We are so excited to have you on. For those people in the audience that maybe don't know anything about you, can you tell our audience maybe a little bit about you? What made you who you are? What experience have you had in your life that's kind of led you to starting up coaching?
Speaker 1:
That's a great question and a big question, brittany, but first I just want to let you know just how honored I am to be here and to have met you and the community that you represent, and just how vital I think it is and the work that you're doing. So thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:
Oh, thanks for saying that. I appreciate that Well you're so welcome.
Speaker 1:
So when I think about that question, I guess I could go a lot of different ways, but I feel like I'm an executive coach and also within that then there's a lot of other pieces. So I call myself kind of a meaning maker or an inquirer. I'm a poet, I'm a human ecologist, I'm a shepherdess I have a sheep farm and a teacher, and I feel like I'm a cultivator of both soil and words. I'm a lover of beauty and humanity and a student of the natural world. My purpose is, I think, is as a life giver who wants to inspire other life givers, and I have spent a lot of time thinking about a very short purpose statement from my life and I came up with five words, and they are to bring beauty to life. And so it's a double meaning at bringing beauty to life and then bringing it actually bringing into life through other people and through my work, and that's really what motivates me. I mean, my work as an executive coach has come from a journey that started and I had spoken about this to you when we first met, and you know people feel like their journey should be very linear. It goes from one piece to the next, to the next to the next, and I found that that's not really true and we often have a different kind of maybe even a zigzag, a back and forth. The learning you know goes in lots of different directions and a lot of times what I like to say is just pay attention, because you never know when that moment where there will be sort of a critical decision or a choice that you make may change the whole dynamic and direction of your life.
Speaker 1:
And I had that moment come for me in college. It was very simple. I'm just going to tell you a little bit about it. I was in a research paper class and I was given a one pager and I was supposed to underline the interesting ways. The person started sentences which you know was very appropriate for a research paper class. But I read it for its content and it happened to be a paraphrase of Alfred North Whitehead's aims of education and which is all about creating change through and educating through a mixture of theory and practice and real life problem solving. And so at the end of the class I went up to the professor and I said have you read this for content? And she looked at me and she said, oh well, yeah, and I said no, no, no. I said this is what I've been feeling All my life and I've never, I never knew that anyone put words to this.
Speaker 1:
So In that moment, literally, brittany, I decided I'm leaving school, I need to leave after the semester because it was not happening there, that kind of education was not happening, and I needed to find where. That was Wow. And so I went to my advisor, I told her I was going to be leaving at the end of the semester. I call my parents, I told him I was leaving and, based on that article, and ultimately, when I walked out of the advisors room, she said to me if you ever decide to go back to college, you might want to take a look at this little college in Maine. And so I took the catalog away and I took a gap here and it's a the national auto leadership school in Landor, wyoming, and then some time in Colorado at a Small school called Ravencrest.
Speaker 1:
And then I moved, pulling that little catalog back out of my drawer, and found that it really spoke to me in so many ways. And this school is called the College of the Atlantic. It's on the coast of Maine, it's a school just of human ecology, which is really the intersection of humanity and Ecology, or our natural world, and how we make meaning out of that. And that's where I wound up going and from there, you know, my journey was full of, I think, inquiry and full of making positive change through action.
Speaker 1:
Wow, yeah, and then I went on and got my master's degree in organization management. I taught for a while and I I realized that if an organization is not working well, then the people can't flourish, and so that was what led me then to Antioch and to become, you know, educated in how to make organizations work better. And my amazingly kind of the Framework that I used was a framework of ecology, which is now spoken of a lot, but you know, 25, 35 years ago that was not in the language at all. So it informs me all the time about how organizations are living systems and so and people also in their own right, and how we must approach them with the same kind of grace and dignity and thoughtfulness and inquiry that gives them the real power to be their full selves. Wow.
Speaker 2:
Wow, judy. Okay, first off, I I you said a few things that like really stick out to me and I kind of want to just highlight some of them. First of all, like Thank you for kind of highlighting this zigzag approach to your life, because I feel like so many times growing up I was, I was told and I was, and I Thought that I had to stay on this linear path and I always had to be stepping up and I always had to be furthering myself in working on myself. And I Think sometimes, if I look back on my own life, I was too hard on myself to always be Making that next step up and I think sometimes, in order to move forward, we do have to move back or we do have to move sideways. So this idea of this zigzag approach really really speaks to me. So, first off, like I just want to say Thank you for highlighting your experience and giving me a little bit more like confidence in my own experience, because I Do struggle with that sometimes. So thank you.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. I like to say maintenance is hard work. Even maintaining where we are is hard work, and often too, in that maintenance Period, I'm gonna call it maintenance. In other words, you're not trying to step up, you're not trying to go anywhere, you're keeping things as you conceive of that next frontier where you might go. You are actually preparing for it, but the preparation is hidden, it's not in your consciousness yet. It may be a goal, but so all these things are sort of coming to play. And then, all of a sudden, there's this sort of uplift and you Walk into this new space that you thought, oh, how am I ever gonna get here? And then it's like a phone call or an email or something that you just take into account because You've kind of had to create that. Let me just say they Like the architecture for it to be able to support you there.
Speaker 2:
Space, yeah, yeah, something that I have to ask you because I am so curious and I recently did an episode with Babacoo, which they make Shoes from wool, and I had Alex on and Alex was telling me all about how he loves to cuddle sheep and I know that you have a sheep farm. So I have to ask, because Alex made me now so intrigued about sheep when does the passion for sheep farming come from?
Speaker 1:
I didn't really know that was in me until we came to this little farm. They are the most peaceful Creatures. They Dot a landscape with their beauty and when you Gaze at them, your whole being just relaxes. They're Not aggressive, they Are Quiet, and they Stay in a cluster and they follow in this community of being together, and that's what protects them, you know, has protected them over the years. Of course, now, you know now they have to be, you know, watched over, but Hmm, that's what they'll do when, when they feel threatened, they get together, and I think that's a beautiful message. It's like when we feel afraid, we need to not just gather our own internal Courage, but it's a good lesson to remember, to reach out and understand that you've got people that will surround you also, so not go it alone.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, oh, what a nice message. I love that. So, judy, while I was preparing for this episode with you, I had a look on your website and I noticed that you have a tagline that says Navigating choice at the threshold of change. And I feel like, in life, life is often changing and it changes because we have to make choices, to decide how to navigate life. And so, with thinking about this tagline, I think it speaks a lot to me. But I'm wondering how did you come up with this tagline, what's the meaning to you, where did it come from and how do you decide to show up in this world?
Speaker 1:
Okay, well, the tagline came from my brain and some I don't know burst of whatever, like a synthesis, you know, thinking about all these things and then realizing oh my gosh, this is what this is. When I articulated that phrase, I understood that. Oh yes, here's how we move through life. We move through life by making many, many, many choices, and those choices then lead to a decision. Right, that decision is when we kind of put the stake in the ground, but a choice when you're at the choice point, so when you're on that threshold. So a threshold is a dividing space. It's really what they call like a liminal space. It doesn't have any kind of real direction. Right there You're just, you're standing at a crossroads, in a sense, on that threshold.
Speaker 1:
So it's there where we generate and create choice. And so at that place you are navigating those different opportunities without making a decision yet. And so when we leave that space more broad, we allow ourselves a little more grace and a little more opportunity, actually, because we've given ourselves more choices, we haven't narrowed them down so quickly. So when we're on that threshold and you're both gathering choice and navigating them, it moves you then to a stronger position to make a really firm and thoughtful decision. So that's what we do. We're navigating that choice there, we're bringing those choices in, we're giving yourself some space in that kind of uncomfortable, uncertain place. It's before you step forward. You're not going back, you're probably not going too far somewhere and you're not going forward yet. So it doesn't feel, it's not very comfortable. You're in between, right, yeah, but if you can be brave and stay there for just a little while longer and not close down so fast, then you may just open up opportunities that you would never have thought of or will come your way because you have lingered there.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, with some bravery, yeah, and this bravery that you're talking about and I believe this is true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of your clients are female identifying and I'm wondering this bravery that you're talking about, is this a common thread that you are often working on with your clients? Absolutely. What are some of the other trends that maybe your clients come to you seeking?
Speaker 1:
Well, a lot of the most accomplished people that I've worked with will say to me at some point I feel like I'm a failure, I haven't done enough. You know, they're deeply committed. They work more hours a week than they want to admit, they sacrifice time and time again and at the end of the day, they don't feel like they're enough. They also talk about being afraid and talking about not knowing what to do next.
Speaker 1:
All these things that are just you would say to yourself, this person never has had, should or could ever have had these thoughts, and yet they are rampant among these, among women who are very, very accomplished and those who are emerging leaders also, and I just want to speak to them, to the women who are looking for what that next thing is and sort of taking this journey to have a little more compassion and kindness for yourself as you walk this journey. It's just our. I think our bar, the bar that we set, is so high that when we even accomplish those things, we still can't stop for a minute and celebrate, celebrate, ladies like you're doing some incredible things. I know that these people out there are just doing these amazing things. I see them all the time, so I celebrate them, and that is my privilege.
Speaker 2:
You're speaking directly to me without maybe realizing it, but I hear you. I hear you when you say maybe, maybe, slow down and take a second to celebrate, because I think sometimes we all just get a little bit caught up in the work and we get caught up on the next steps and, yeah, we don't take that time to slow down and celebrate the accomplishments that we just completed to get to the next step. So and it may be talking a little bit to myself here, but, like, especially for those ladies that are task-oriented I mean males too right, there are task-oriented males but instead of just looking forward to, like, completing the task, checking it off and moving on, take a moment to appreciate the fact that you just checked it off.
Speaker 1:
So yes, and that's why you should have sheep, because if you go and watch a sheep you just use, everything stops. It's like a Zen moment. So you know, you can put it on your screen saver or something, but they will slow you down, they'll bring you back to reality.
Speaker 2:
I love that. Yeah, Are there any other trends that you see that you want to speak about?
Speaker 1:
I think one thing that I would want to say that I see also and we all do this but is challenging the narrative that's in our head, and often we don't actually stop and think about what you are saying to yourself, and I hate to say, but that many times we're saying things that are very negative, things like I'll never be able to do this or it's whatever I do, you know, I'm not, I'm gonna mess it up. There's a hundred things I don't belong in this place. I'm not as smart as everyone else. How did I ever get into this room? How did I ever get into this room? You know those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:
And so I heard this I don't know if it was a podcast between these two people and the person was asking you know how this one person had made this significant change in their life? And their answer was one day I just decided to stop listening to the things I was telling myself. And so if you stop listening to the first start so that you become aware of them, then stop if you can, and the way we stop is to replace them with something that's much better and much more positive, like go get them, tiger, you can do it.
Speaker 2:
I like that. I like that a lot. Start listening to yourself. If you're not already doing it, and then stop, because you're probably damaging yourself, and then replace it with some positive affirmation Love that. So, judy, I'm wondering kind of what what you're doing with me right now, would you? Would you call this coaching? No?
Speaker 1:
I wouldn't call it coaching, okay, and here's the reason why because I'm telling you things, giving you advice, or you know, because the nature of the question like what have I found or what do I see, so it's more you know my experience and then sharing that with you. So what a coach does and different than a consultant. So I like to think of it this way A consultant is an advisor. They're hired to tell you what to do, okay, and so that's their job and they're usually an expert in a particular field, and so that's why you hire them, right. On the other hand, coach is often confused with a counselor. A counselor is more like an archaeologist, so they're looking for the deep whys of either behavior or behavioral change, and they're going kind of looking backwards and not as not that they wouldn't be looking forward, but they're not as focused on the forward piece. They're gonna unearth some of those things that have influenced you in your life or in your behavior, that make you do certain things. And you're asking the question why a coach is like more like. If the consultant is an advisor or teller and a counselor is like an archaeologist, then the coach is more like an architect. So a coach is looking forward and they're really a thinking partner and a deep inquirer, asking about the next pieces that come from really your articulation of what you need.
Speaker 1:
So I find my questions when I'm coaching someone from the person I'm coaching from.
Speaker 1:
So I'm always leading forward and I'm not telling, I don't advise, I don't tell, I listen, I help them hear what they're saying and then I ask questions that bring them to a self-realization of sort of a future state. So it's creating the architecture together as they move sort of through this change process. Yeah, it's phenomenal, like someone said to me. One of the first lines I read in one of the training certification program I did was welcome to the magic of coaching and I thought, okay, that sounds a little bit, you know too much like woo-woo or whatever. And I and then I realized, oh no, actually there's a real truth about that that people have these amazing aha moments that are all theirs because they've been supported through very active listening. They have been asked to think about what's behind their questions and where they're going, and then they've been given space with a witness to hear how they're concluding or how they're putting it all together and it's just it's. It's a really profound moment when that happens.
Speaker 2:
So interesting because now that I'm hearing you actually say the difference between coaching, counseling and consulting, it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:
And I'm sitting here and I'm listening to you talk and I'm a little bit reflecting back on our prep call for this podcast, to get to know each other and get up to speed on the planning for the podcast, and I'm like, oh wow, I wonder if you realized or if it's maybe just like part of your DNA now as a person.
Speaker 2:
But, and reflecting back to that prep call, I just came off of this really powerful moment, breakthrough moment with my manager and you have this sense of comfort and safety just in your personality that I felt from you right away from the moment I met you.
Speaker 2:
And, as I'm telling you this experience on the prep call, I felt so safe with you because you were actively listening and you were, you were guiding me to come to my own conclusions about my feelings and, as you're saying that, well, that's what a coach does, I'm like no duh, that's what a coach does, like that's what. That's exactly what you did for me in that moment where we were like sharing an experience together. So I guess my point that I'm saying all this for is like do you think coaching is a switch that you turn on and off? Or now that, like now that you are a coach and you've identified how to be a coach for people, do you see it kind of coming into your personal life? Do you quote unquote like coach, like maybe your friends or your partner, like through, through your life?
Speaker 1:
yeah, you have to be careful. So, like with my girls, they'll call me up and I'll sometimes say, okay, who do you want me to be here on the phone? They're like my mom, you know, or no. Mom, it's okay, you can ask me questions, you know. I love that and the truth is, I mean use the word to guide and a coach.
Speaker 1:
Actually, I just want to push back a little bit on that, mmm, because the coach is asking a question that's coming from, for example, from you, and so there's no real guidance in terms of like I think you should go this way. So just wanted I want to clarify yeah, really asking another question that then moves you just by saying so say, I don't really know where I want to go next, I might say, well, if you knew where, my where, might you want to go next? And then you said, oh well, this and this and this, maybe. And I might say, oh well, tell me more about that. And so you see how I'm just kind of taking you and so honoring of the person, because when they get to that space where they have that moment or that shift, they are there because of themselves. That's what I love.
Speaker 2:
Oh, so fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh I love that.
Speaker 2:
So, judy, speaking of our relationship and how we met and everything, we met down at the B Corp Leadership Development Conference that was down in Southeast back in September and if I'm correct, your company is not a B Corp yet, but you found yourself at the B Corp Leadership Development Conference. So I'm wondering and I'm a little bit prying here, but I'm wondering if you can kind of speak to what drove you to that conference and how did you feel being at that conference not be not, maybe not yet being a B Corp, but knowing that that conference was filled of B Corps, what did the community feel like for you? Did you enjoy your time? Would you go again? I guess I'm just looking to understand from your perspective what the conference was like.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, can I say that one very quickly? Yes, it was amazing and I love the community. The people were fantastic. They are passionate, they are genuine, they are collaborative I mean just really collaborative, like they really believe in collaboration. At the end they put up the big board. It was a big board where you could just ask something or give something, and so people would just offer all sorts of things just out of the. This is where they had their expertise, they want to share it, they want people there to gain that access, and so they just put it up there on the board.
Speaker 1:
I thought that was phenomenal.
Speaker 1:
But what drove me there was I had this like I was working with a coach and he, and through the time that we had together, was trying to come up with where, like, I really wanted to focus my time and attention and I realized I just had this kind of epiphany where I came kind of full circle, bringing together my love of the outdoors as an ecologist, a human ecologist who is bringing together, like humanity and the natural system.
Speaker 1:
So then to see that the benefit corporation was not only using, caring for the planet, caring for people, caring for and then having deep purpose, because that is what really drives me are my values and making the world in some way a better place to be, and then also that they're making a profit. So these four things the people, purpose, planet and profit all are working together. And I thought, you know what, if I could work among or with these people and I could, through coaching, amplify their impact, then I have changed the world for good through someone else's skill and ability. That is far beyond where I could ever reach myself and that in that moment I said to this coach. I said I actually I almost feel giddy, I just it was such a weird word, but it was just like I found this intersection of the things that I loved and I found then a community that was living and breathing it, and so I hope to either become a B Corp or be a B Corp or certainly work among the benefit corporation community.
Speaker 2:
I mean just their outstanding, exemplary yeah, this feeling that you're describing, although extremely different, but very similar for me. When I found the B Corp community, I often called it and I've heard other people call it like it's almost like a coming home.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely.
Speaker 2:
You just all of a sudden feel like you found your people and you feel so safe and so connected, without ever of meeting the other person. So, yeah, it feels like a coming home. So I hear you. Yeah, nice way to put that. Yeah, oh, wonderful. So do I dare ask do you plan to go to the next B Corp Leadership Development Conference that will be happening next year down in the south?
Speaker 1:
Yes, Isn't that happening in Atlanta?
Speaker 2:
I believe they did announce it and I believe it is Atlanta. Yeah, yeah, very exciting.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so very yeah, I definitely would go again.
Speaker 2:
That's awesome, Judy. Is there anything else that you wish to share with our audience or ensure that they know about you before we say goodbye?
Speaker 1:
Well, I would love to hear from anyone who could get me at judyshankochengcom. I have a website, it's judyshankochengcom. I would love to talk with you If you're in this journey and you want to get there in a way that has both nod to your health and wellness and wholeness and your boldness to step out and take a risk or do something different. And then what I love to include also is a sense of wonder and where you can go and how big and broad and high and wide it might be. So if I can in any way walk alongside you, I would be most honored.
Speaker 2:
Oh, I love that. And for everybody listening in the show notes, we'll be a link for her email address and her website, and we'll also share Judy's LinkedIn. So connect with her in all of the different places. Reach out to her. Like you just heard, she wants to support you yeah.
Speaker 1:
Brittany. Could I read just a short poem? It's a poem that's in my book, it's called Intuit, the Poems of an American Woman, and it's called Between, and I think it's very appropriate here. It says between how does it feel to be in between, not quite on one side, not quite on the other, in between, pushed, pulled, pressed, prayerful watching, waiting, wondering, worshipful searching for the step that bridges the divide and brings me back to solid ground.
Speaker 2:
Judy, that was wonderful, and share the name of the book again for our audience. It's called.
Speaker 1:
Intuit the Poems of an American Woman.
Speaker 2:
We will also link to that in the show notes so that you can read all of Judy's beautiful poems.
Speaker 1:
Oh, there you go. Well, that would be my pleasure.
Speaker 2:
Well, thank you, Judy, so much for your time and your expertise and sharing your knowledge with us here on Responsibly Different.
Speaker 1:
You're so very welcome. Thank you for having me, Brittany. Oh, you're so very welcome. Thank you for having me, Brittany. Oh, you're so very welcome. Thank you for having me, Brittany.
Speaker 2:
Thank you so much for joining this conversation with Judy. I hope you learned something new and are even a little curious to see how Judy can help you in your life's journey. Please do consider reaching out to Judy. She would love to hear from you and I would love for you all to take time to welcome her into this community. She herself is a Responsibly Different community member, and what is life if we don't stick together in community? Her email is in the show notes, as well as her LinkedIn. Until next time, be Responsibly Different.