Why Is Leisure Time So Important?

They say all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, and they are probably right. Join Gary, Eryn, and guest Kirk as they explore the many varieties of amusement Americans have enjoyed throughout the centuries, from Vaudeville to sports. What role does leisure time have in our everyday lives? Does amusement serve a grander purpose that affects other areas of our lives?

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https://billofrightsinstitute.org/podcasts/why-is-leisure-time-so-important

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Transcript

Intro/Outro (00:06)
From the Bill of Rights Institute, Fabric of History weaves together US history, founding principles, and what all of this means to us today. Join us as we pull back the curtains of the past to see what's inside.

Haley (00:20)
They say all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. And they are probably right. Join Gary, Eryn, and guest Kirk as they explore the many varieties of amusement Americans have enjoyed throughout the centuries, from vaudeville to state affairs. What role does leisure time have in our everyday lives? Does amusement serve a grander purpose that affects other areas of our lives?

Eryn (00:49)
Welcome back, everyone, to the Fabric of History Podcast. As you can probably tell, I am not Mary. This is Eryn currently speaking. I am here with Gary as well, but Mary is off doing some very important content work for the Bill of Rights Institute. So we have another very special guest with us today, Kirk Higgins.

Kirk (01:11)
Hello. Thank you guys for having me.

Gary (01:13)
Absolutely. You may remember Kirk from an earlier podcast about beards, which I recommend checking out, but as a key part of all the curriculum here at the Bill of Rights Institute, we are thrilled that you're joining us today to talk about American amusements.

Kirk (01:31)
Absolutely. I'm excited to be here. I do still have a beard, so that's important. And I also enjoy amusements, which I think makes me qualified for both of these podcasts. That's good.

Gary (01:40)
You are not against amusement and neither am I.

Eryn (01:44)
I'm actually not a fan of like amusement parks, which we'll get into. So I don't know. Can I say I'm qualified for these? We'll find out.

Gary (01:56)
Sounds like we are jumping right into it. So just to set the scene, we are recording this as spring has sprung, summer is on the horizon. It's 2021. So we are stepping out a little bit into this idea of the someday future where Americans may be out together doing things where you are not at work and not at home. I'm even going to say we might want to limit it to being in person together.

Kirk (02:27)
Yeah, Gary, I think that's really interesting. I think especially during the past year of dealing with the covid pandemic. Like you said, thinking about being with other people has been something many people have been longing for. And it kind of gets replaced with Zoom, which, by the way, we're recording on Zoom right now. But there's this want this desire to get together, not for any other reason than to just sort of share time together, share an experience together. And that seems sort of deeply seeded in us for some reason. And I think that's kind of what's drawing us to this topic. What is it about us needing to be together that draws us out of our homes, into these places where we come together communally?

Gary (03:12)
So, Kirk, is what you're asking, like why we even need collective amusements?

Kirk (03:19)
Yeah, I think so. What draws us together for amusement.

Gary (03:24)
I do like a good question, Kirk, and getting into the nature of why humans need amusement is a really good one, just for clarity's sake. Amusement can be lots of different things. It could be like I really enjoy reading alone under a tree, but we're specifically saying things where groups of people get together in person physically for something to enjoy that they don't have to do, but they're choosing to do. And probably even farther when we say we're going to limit it to in US history because that's kind of what we do. So given that your question is great because there's like a premise built-in. Right. That there is a need, would we say that's like a human need?

Kirk (04:08)
I think so.

Eryn (04:10)
Yeah, to varying degrees. I think if Mary was here channeling her a little bit, she's a self-proclaimed introvert and would probably be saying she doesn't need a lot of these collective amusements.

Gary (04:25)
We also did talk about July 4 on a prior podcast, which I do recommend if you've not heard that one. And we did talk a lot about that. There's something about those events that bring people together. And so it may not be all the time, but it definitely seems like there's a value to almost everybody. Right, right.

Eryn (04:44)
But that's what I would say. It's like everyone's on a sliding scale.

Gary (04:48)
That's right.

Eryn (04:49)
How much they need these collective amusements. And it exists from a very small part to maybe like 99% of the time, just depending on who you are. Yeah.

Kirk (04:59)
And I think as a regular listener to your podcast, I have to say you talk about community a lot, and there's a reason that people come together. And when we think about it in sort of a civic sense, like responsibilities to the community, I think that's one way. But there's also a sense that people come together for more than just that kind of governmental piece. Right. They're coming together in common fellowship or bonding around something. It's interesting to me we are talking about the American expression because sometimes these collective amusements are very rooted in different cultural expressions. That all to me speaks to that social nature of human beings. There's some kind of need to share that experience, that you can have these experiences on your own, but there's something different that can happen when you are with a group of people.

Gary (05:52)
Yeah, absolutely. I think we take for granted we're big fans of Aristotle around these parts. And there's a phrase that comes up a lot about how man is by nature a social animal. I think we're accepting that as a premise of something that recognizing to be perhaps true. But I think beyond that like you said, there's an interesting part about a collective culture that is built out of having something in common. I think it might help to give a specific example. And forgive me if you're not a fan out there, but I'm pretty excited around this time of year for baseball season. And I would argue baseball still. I'd say we still consider that a national pastime. I don't know if you argue with us, write to comments@fabricofhistory.org if you say it is football or some other thing, but I'm just putting out premises out there left and right. I'm going to say baseball is our national sport. I think that's such an interesting sort of case study about, like, what is it about amusements like that? And there's lots of other ones. Perhaps we'll talk about like state fairs or concerts and things like this.

Gary (06:56)
But I'm going to start with baseball. And to do so, I have to give a quote from one of my favorite movies, Field of Dreams. Can I do that? Is everybody going to indulge me? You're listening?

Kirk (07:06)
Please.

Gary (07:06)
You're in on it right now. Right. So in other episodes, we often give kind of shout-outs to places to visit across the United States. If you ever find yourself in Dyersville, Iowa, this is not related to BRI. But if you ever are there, check out the Field of Dreams. Let's call it Museum House Field. That's there. And if you haven't seen Field Dreams. So there's a great speech about baseball, and it basically says this. It has to do with saying if you build the baseball field, people will come. And I'm picking it up from there. It says they'll watch the game and it will be as they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come, Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that was once good and that could be again. And I have to say that's a real emotional like there's something about going out to a game with a bunch of other people, possibly strangers.

Gary (08:32)
That's a true American amusement and a really good example.

Eryn (08:36)
I mean, even as you read that quote, I think back to all my baseball game memories myself. And just the fact that you go to these games and you make friends with the people that you sit around and you're right. That's an experience that you have that you can't have unless you are around a collective group of people.

Kirk (09:00)
Yeah. And I think I love that movie. I have my own connections to Iowa, so I think that's partly why. But that quote is so powerful because I think it gets at why these collective amusements are so powerful, because there's a certain nostalgia to it, right? There's a certain longing for the perfect day for baseball never really exists, but it always does in your mind. When you think about it, right? You go to the ballpark and it's the middle of July day and it's hot and you're sweating and you're thirsty. And yet when you think back on it, you see the cool green grass and you see the players in their perfect uniforms, and there's that romance, right? And there's that moment and who you're there with matters, and what happens on the field matters. And the rules matter in a way, right? You're watching something unfolding before you that's both ordered but also chaotic. And all of that is creating this memory and this bonding not just with you, but with the entire Stadium. If you're there when something big happens, you talk about it, you share that memory. It's something that stays with you and becomes a part of your own identity, becomes a part of your own story in a way that I think is really powerful and shapes us.

Kirk (10:21)
And it leaves us wanting more of that. It leaves us seeking it out. That is not just sort of the temporary thrill and the fun, but also that we all work really hard to get to a moment where we can go do those things that we love. And baseball is one of those things. But it's also all the other amusements, whether it's going to a tabletop gaming convention or it's going to a concert or all of these things, it sort of marks out in our minds something apart that we reflect on and that shape us and drive us and really help us give context and meanings to our lives. Not to make it too broad of a statement.

Gary (11:08)
I think from a sociology point of view also, it could mean different things, right? It could mean, like you said, that the people who you're with, it may not even be about the game as a fan of a certain New York baseball team that doesn't win every single time, it's what comes out of it, what's learned every time it's maybe next time, maybe next year. It's about just the experience. And even if it was a rainy day, still fun, even if the thing you ate was not warm enough. But you're right, it could be lots of different ways we do it. I mean, the word amusement Park, I think, is an interesting one. And within all these, there's what has to happen. There's like putting your attention on something. There's the activity that you're focused on this thing happening. But then really it's about the other things. It's the little rituals in between. It's the little parts of it that it's like every time I do X as an amusement, every time I go to an amusement Park, I have to get a deep-fried Oreo, for example, or every time I go to the state fair, I got to check out the livestock races that they often have or that kind of thing.

Gary (12:16)
And so there's these, like layers to amusements that sure you might miss one or two, but to not do it at all can be emotionally pretty painful.

Kirk (12:27)
Yeah. And those traditions can be things you share with others. Right. I mean, baseball sticking with the baseball analogy, the 7th inning stretch. Right. Like that is a tradition that happens. And when you are there, you may not even think about why it happens, but it does. And it's a tradition that continues and it's something that is looked forward to or at least signals something there's sort of a comfort to that orderedness. And the smell. It's a whole experience.

Gary (12:59)
It is all the senses.

Kirk (13:00)
Yeah. The smells, the sounds bustling through security as it's become the- I mean, it's all a part of.

Gary (13:07)
Yes, absolutely. It's all those things put together that proves that it's not about one thing. Let's say it's concerts. Could you watch a video of a concert? Sure. Would that be fun? To some extent, absolutely. Nothing against watching that. But is it the same as going to one?

Eryn (13:23)
No, absolutely not. As a big concertgoer myself, I would never watch a concert on a screen. I was actually just talking with my friend about this last night, about like, please give me back the music that breaks my eardrums and feeling like the vibration of the music and being around all those people. Ironically, I don't mind those crowds and getting my feet stepped on there. But yeah, I think exactly what you're saying about baseball is that it's all senses and there are different layers to it. I think the same exists for all these other amusements. Like, I'm seeing so many parallels to a live concert. Right. Like there are very real layers and senses of what I hear, what I feel, what I smell, that I think that doesn't all happen as a sensory experience if you're just like watching it on a screen. 

Kirk (14:23)
But even if you're doing, I think of collective amusements, too. I study a lot of history for my job here at the Bill of Rights Institute. So going here in Washington, DC, going to see the monuments, going to see the Smithsonian, museums, traveling around the region, going to different historical markers and places, battlefields, all those things, they are amusements. Right, to a certain extent. And they're still communal. Even if your community isn't, you're usually going with someone, but even if you're not, you're sharing in sort of that larger expression of American history when you go to see those things. Right. Which is a different kind of amusement. But it's still people are drawn to those things. Art museums, going to that art Museum in looking at the art, seeing those expressions and sharing that with other people, I think is a really powerful way of both exercising, thinking through things like being cerebral about it, but also having something shared in common.

Gary (15:30)
Yeah, absolutely. Something could be spontaneous. We're not against those amusements, but I think a lot of what we're talking about to earn the title of a classic American amusement, seems like it needs to span time. So I feel like that raises kind of a big question about, like, did we always have this time, this leisure time, this free time, this recreational time? There must be a history to that in some way. Right?

Kirk (15:55)
Well, that's a great question, Gary, and I think maybe we should take a short break and we can dive into where that history of leisure time comes from.

Kirk (16:12)
So, Gary, you asked about leisure time and history, and I think it's first important to say, look, leisure isn't new. There's always been people seeking out leisure time. I know it's surprising. And we found archaeological evidence of a ball game being played in Central America. And also, I am sort of a sucker for Dutch Masters paintings. But there's the very famous painting of The Hunters in the Snow by Peter Bruegel the Elder. And in the background, you see ice skaters. Right. And this is from 1565. There's this idea that that painting, especially, like, in the midst of a horrific time, you're seeing people finding leisure. You're seeing people finding ways of spending time that's not purely work, but work gets in the way of leisure as we know well. And so it's this emergence, I think, of leisure, particularly into the 20th century, that we see the end of the 19th century into the 20th century. You're starting to see the evolution of industrialization. You're starting to see changing priorities and pushing back on what is a rational amount of work time. How much should we be dedicating our time to work? And how is it that now this new level of productivity that's allowed to us by industrialization, can we take advantage of to spend more time doing what we'd like to be doing as opposed to doing what we have to be doing to provide for ourselves and provide for our families and provide for our communities? And so I think it's at that point where professional baseball really begins. In the 1880s, we were talking about baseball earlier into the 1890s, and a lot of that begins to emerge because of those kinds of reforms and because of that opportunity that now exists for free time because we don't need to be working as much or as often.

Gary (18:10)
That's something that seems to come up a number of times in our podcast where a lot of our topics are things that exist throughout time and space. But there sometimes is a place to point at and say, like, here's maybe a good illustration of this thing. And so it sounds like to me that the industrial era or later industrial, at least, is a time where it's no accident that things like baseball or Wild West shows or vaudeville starts becoming more and more popular because this is the illustration of what we're talking about this time period and a rise of these leisure collective activities, would we say that's correct?

Eryn (18:54)
Absolutely. And it's funny, I was thinking also about a book I read recently called The Cold Millions, and it takes place in Seattle around this time when a lot of people were trying to unionize because I think a lot of these people are working like seven days straight every day for egregious amounts of hours, and you kind of finally have these unions that are unionizing and pulls down the workday a little bit, but then you get all these different amusements. But the labor unions reminded me that's when you also get Labor Day and it was to celebrate these unions and their families, and it ended up becoming a national holiday. And I think that's really interesting because that's his own form of amusement. Right. Labor Day today. But thinking about what the origins of Labor Day were, and that was around this time in 1894.

Kirk (19:57)
Yeah, I think it's interesting, too, in thinking about the kind of labor that was going on in that period. So much of it was repetitive, so much of it was physical, and it was exhausting. And a lot of these reforms came out of the fact of wanting to make laborers more efficient because they needed some kind of mental break from what they were doing. When you're standing trying to do a repetitive task over and over again, that is not only physically exhausting, like I said, but mind-numbing in the real sense of just it's the same thing over and over again. There's a sense that this desire for leisure is both, I think, a health kind of a thing from the standpoint of, look, you can't just work people to death, but in thinking about, well, what does that mean to work them to death? It's not just physical. There's a component of it that people are seeking some kind of break from this never-ending cycle of labor that is giving some kind of meaning or some kind of something that's outside of just providing for whoever it is that they're working for.

Eryn (21:08)
And that makes sense as to why a lot of the amusements that Gary mentioned, vaudeville shows, circuses, Wild West, rodeo, motion pictures, it was like an escape from reality. It was an escape from reality. It still is. Right. So I think that's why we have those specific types of amusements kind of grow and foster and become so popular because it was not the normal experience, it was not work.

Gary (21:37)
And I don't think it's an accident. We're using the word amusement that time off could be used for very serious personal development, or it really could be to enjoy yourself. But even within it, right, to be amused, I feel like has the word muse in it, has this idea that it can be inspiring, it can be uplifting, it can be almost spiritually or emotionally uplifting, as much as it's a mental and physical break from things. That list you're giving, what is in common to vaudeville and Wild West rodeo shows and concerts and things like that.

Kirk (22:12)
I think typically they're telling a story as much as they're just entertaining. Right. They have something to say, which I think is interesting, and it's something to engage with. It gives you something to be able to discuss with others and kind of unpack and reflect on. And it's not just, to use a modern phrase, zoning out. It's not just zoning out. Right. There's something else happening there that is the muses. Right. You think of creativity, you think of it sort of percolating in your mind and that you're projecting yourself into them, too in a certain way, which I think is, again, breaking from the monotony of the other day, setting it apart a bit to bring you some kind of deep joy or happiness or whatever it is that you're seeking.

Gary (23:02)
We're sort of specifying about American amusements, and some of that just has such an American flavor to it. So I'm thinking about like the Wild West shows or rodeos. If you've been to those which you still can go to, they're great or even just we mentioned earlier, like natural parks or things like that. There's something about the locality, the specificity of where you are, and celebrating where you are great example of state fairs. Different states have them. There are some commonalities there, but there's also this amazing locality to it that really celebrates your state but also the country. And sure, there's fairs and amusements everywhere else. But is there something about what we consider to be, like classic American amusements?

Kirk (23:51)
I think state fairs are an interesting one growing up in Indiana. The Indiana State Fair happens every year in August, and it's a celebration of the state and at the same time in amusement. Right. So it's an agrarian-focused kind of a thing, looking at livestock and plants and animals. But it's also become sort of looking across the board. They'll have different exhibits of areas that are being preserved, habitats are being preserved in the state, which I think is really interesting. There's also typically concerts that are happening there, too, celebrating music. It's usually coming now from outside of the state, but it's still typically musical concerts. Everybody's getting together, there's rides. But all of that is happening at the same time as this joint celebration of I guess it's distinctly American, just in that it's reflecting that community. Right. If you're at the Indiana State Fair, you know that you're at the Indiana State Fair and not the Delaware State Fair. Right. Or not the New York State Fair, like all of those, you just have a sense that they're going to have a slightly different flavor to it because of what's going on in that state, how that state thinks about itself in sort of the abstract sense.

Kirk (25:12)
And the Indiana State Fair, for example, has been ongoing for a long time. And I think it's been in the same location since 1892. So it's been a part of Indiana state history as the state has grown and transitioned over the past, over 100 years.

Eryn (25:28)
Well, even the Iowa State Fair, another state fair. But Gary, asking what is quintessentially American? The Iowa State Fair has also become like the epicenter of the presidential race on purpose or not because we kind of take these state fairs and have made them such an American ideal. I don't know. It's like, which came first, chicken or egg? And that's not the scope of this podcast, but definitely kind of brings home that point of a state fair being like this really American amusement.

Gary (26:08)
I'm thinking there's a pun somewhere in there about chickens and eggs and state fairs.

Eryn (26:15)
I do remember seeing chickens and little eggs happening at my California State Fair. So very appropriate, Gary.

Gary (26:22)
I actually do think there's something in there about that and how that there's a purpose beyond just it feels good, it's fun, it's healthy, it's a nice break, and more. It actually builds some sort of sense of community. I almost think that's worth kind of exploring further.

Eryn (26:41)
I think that's definitely something we can dive into after we take a short break.

Gary (26:45)
Sure.

Mary (26:48)
Hey, Fabric of History listener! Learned anything new yet at BRI? We have a lot more to share. Check out our YouTube channel in the Description, where we dissect and discuss US history and civics with experts and teachers. We update weekly and would love for you to join the conversation. And now back to our podcast.

Eryn (27:10)
So before the break, we were asking ourselves what role amusements have in creating a sense of American community. What do you guys think?

Kirk (27:21)
Yeah, I think that's interesting, especially as we're talking about state fairs. I'd mentioned state fairs. The Indiana State Fair is the one I'm most familiar with. It really reflects the state, but it's interesting. State fairs have their origins. I mean, most of them have been around for a while and do reflect an agrarian sort of character, even as States have begun to change and that part of it is still there. So sort of that history, kind of like we were talking about with baseball. Right. It's a tradition that's been around for a long time. But even as the state evolves a bit, that core stays thinking about those smells and everything else. And there's something about that continuity and that shared experience year after year after year that begins to build that community in a certain way and continue to reflect the state, but also reflects the state's past. And I think there are other forms of amusement that do that. And Gary, I'm curious, you mentioned vaudeville before and that you're a big fan of it. I don't know much about vaudeville, and I'm curious how is it that you see vaudeville in particular, maybe building on this sense of American community?

Gary (28:32)
I think it's another good example I mean, along with baseball and state fairs and the different illustrations we're talking about, it's another good example. These are things that are not stuck in time, even though there are nostalgic aspects of it, but actually do naturally evolve because I think we enjoy them. But yeah, I know vaudeville is amazing. Vaudeville, I mean classic vaudeville is really turn of the century, early 20th century. It's really a variety show. It's a live variety show that has silly sketches in it and songs and dances and talents and short snippets of just entertaining things, whether they are jugglers or magicians or songs or burlesque, you'll find a lot of and it really was such a key entertainment across the country. Right. In fact, wherever you're out there, dear listeners, your town might have a former vaudeville theater that in many cases converted into movie theaters, but they didn't really go away. Right. I mean, the idea of variety shows continues. I think we enjoy them. I think we see a lot of them on television now. You might see a show where there's sketches and then they break for some kind of music and that kind of thing.

Gary (29:48)
But it really was a classic way for the town to either show off local talents or to invite talents from elsewhere. And it was, and I'm going to use the word gaudy kind of evening. You'd go out to and yell and respond and meet other townspeople and just have a good time. And the success of it was just the real creativity and really getting a response where the audience is highly involved in a way that I think speaks to what we're talking about. It's an illustration of you have to be there for it. A Mark of a good vaudeville show is if somebody missed it, you said you had to be there, which I think you feel like is the motto of these American amusements we're talking about.

Kirk (30:36)
Yeah, I love that. I think it's interesting that something we actually haven't talked that much about is the idea of play or playfulness. Right. And this idea that there's something I don't know, there's nothing about the inner child that kind of comes out in some of this, too, that seems really important, like holding on to that fun aspect, not taking ourselves too seriously as kind of its own escapism. That seems to be an important part of living in any kind of community. Right. Because you got to have some back and forth. You've got to be able to have I don't know if I want to call it flexibility, but you've got to be able to take a step back and have humor kind of break the ice in order to continue to exist as a community. In a certain sense.

Gary (31:25)
It's integral that community kind of gets built by these things. You need to have whimsy sometimes in order to build that community and to have, for lack of a better term, amusement and I know she's not a big fan, but I feel like there are parks designed for amusement that I do think build community.

Eryn (31:45)
When you started talking, what was in my mind was I was an early childhood teacher for seven years. And when you teach young kids, you teach them through play because they have this innate desire to play. And I've always believed, like, that innate sense of play doesn't go away. It just changes and develops as we get older and as we get older. Kind of exactly what you said, Kirk, becomes a sense of escape from another modern term adulting. Yes. And then, Gary, you started talking and I was thinking how there are so many adults who love Disneyland. I guess I at first kind of glance over my thought process would think of it as a place for children, but it was just like 100% escapism. And there are still so many adults that love taking their children to Disneyland or Disney World. Sorry, I grew up with Disneyland guys. So that's just what I automatically say, no offense to Disney World, but they go because they want to go, but they're like, oh, I have a child that makes it even a better reason to go or socially acceptable or whatever. But it brings out that sense of play.

Eryn (33:14)
It brings out that inner child. And I think that's a very interesting concept.

Gary (33:21)
This fun for all ages approach to the point of amusement parks as well, I think is another commonality that I think builds community because I think that leads to how we started this a little bit. Right. If there's something you experienced and loved as a child, then as you go through time, there's not a time you stop doing it. You just look at the same amusement from different perspectives, and maybe you get to the point where you're at another part of the age spectrum and look at it through those different eyes, but still, it's there and meet you where you are.

Kirk (33:54)
Well, I think what's interesting about that, too, is, Eryn, you mentioned Disney, and I happened to listen to a great podcast about Disney on this very podcast at one point. But what's amazing to me about Disney is that they sort of tried to capture that lightning in a bottle. But it's also if you think about Epcot. Right. The experimental prototype community of Tomorrow in Orlando. What's amazing about that is especially if you're thinking about the around the world section. Right. Travel is another amusement we haven't talked about, but Epcot allows for you to travel around the world while staying at a park. And they do that in a number of ways, whether it's the music that changes when you get to the different location or the food that's being served or even down to the smells that they're having project out. It's amazing that that transports you and you're sharing that experience with others, that it's building this community. I know that at Disney there's people who trade pins. Right. And that's a cultural thing that's developed within that community and that's shared. And that's something that people get excited about, and they anticipate all those things like we were talking about with baseball and we were talking about going to parks and museums and things.

Kirk (35:09)
There's a community that builds up around those shared experiences and those shared amusements and that desire to repeat what you did last time because it is that kind of escape. And maybe it's a stability thing, too. Right. It's thinking about that, you know, as the world changes around you and as your life changes around you and as you're dealing with all this stuff, there's a certain stability that you can reach out and find comfort in and find an escape in that's really important.

Eryn (35:39)
Yeah. There's this great quote by Michael Sorkin about Epcot, and he says, whatever its other meanings, the theme park rhapsodizes the relationship between transportation and geography. It's unnecessary for the average American family to go to Norway or Japan because those places can be reduced to Vikings and Samurai, gravlax, and sushi. It isn't that one hasn't traveled. It's that all travel is equal. And I think that actually really gets at this sense of community. And I think back to why we gather and why we need these amusements that require gathering. And it reminds me of our episode on pubs and why people gathered in pubs. In the sense of community, that was, for the large part, democratic. Right. It didn't matter if you were rich or you were poor or what your education background. The pub was a place everyone could gather to talk about things. And I think that's kind of what Michael Sorkin is getting at with Epcot or any other these theme parks is that it equates everyone. All travel is equal. You don't have to have the money. You don't have to travel there. You go there and you're equal, and you're all part of that same community.

Gary (37:04)
Yeah. You could celebrate local. You can dream about what's beyond the horizon somewhere. And I think it's an interesting commonality among all these different things, whether it's going to an amusement park or a baseball game or watching vaudeville or going to a state fair that they're celebrating where you are, they're taking a little break from your day to day. And there's the creativity of dreaming big that you could share with other people no matter what age you are.

Kirk (37:34)
Yeah. There's a certain group identity that comes with that. Right. Gary was talking about that certain New York baseball team that he roots for.

Gary (37:43)
I'm a Mets fan, everybody. It's okay. I'm a Mets fan. Come on. For those who have not been following along.

Kirk (37:51)
But even when the team isn't doing well, which is rare. Which is rare, there's still a sense of identity both in where the team plays and they're our guys. I happen to be a Detroit Red Wings hockey fan, and the Detroit Red Wings were a very good team for a long time. In the last few years, they have not been as good, but there's still that sort of sense of belonging that you don't abandon. It's kind of the ups and downs. The stakes aren't actually high, and yet you feel so connected both to that place and to those players just because of what they represent.

Gary (38:35)
If we are talking about one of the purposes of amusements, being building community, I think it's very revealing when it comes to say sports or anything like that that you say we won or we lost. And I think that reveals something deep and connected among people.

Kirk (38:54)
Yeah, absolutely. I think back to when the Cubs won the World Series in 2016, and I happen to have a Cubs fan in my life and her family, when they won the World Series, it was as though a new light had dawned and a new age had come. And I mean, the city of Chicago celebrated that way. I don't know if this is still the case, but I think the parade for the Chicago Cubs winning the World Series was one of the largest gatherings of human beings in history.

Eryn (39:30)
There's a lot of Cubs fans.

Kirk (39:32)
Which is incredible, but it shows the power, I think, of that collective amusement. Right. Because it's not just I don't think because it's baseball or a sport, but it's also because it's that baseball team in that city that has been playing there for all of those years and all of that collective memory, all of those people going to all of those games for all of those generations when they haven't won in that long. I think Boston was the same way when they won. I think they won their first World Series in over 100 years in 2004. It's the same thing. It's not just that it's sports. It's that it's that long-continued tradition of that shared amusement that builds a community that results in real emotional outpouring from people. Whether that's your thing or not, it's still an amazing thing to witness.

Gary (40:25)
And something that becomes talked about. And again, for those of us who just love history, it can be talked about over and over and not necessarily relive but revisited in a way that is powerful and binds us together. So each and every one of you listening out there probably have a favorite amusement you're looking forward to doing again. And of course, we'd love to hear from you about that. So if you have an amusement or a question or just about anything, we like to be part of that community. You can reach out to us through our social media handles or through comments@fabricofhistory.org. Kirk, I want to say thanks for joining us for this chat.

Kirk (41:09)
Thank you guys for inviting me. It was a lot of fun.

Gary (41:11)
Absolutely. Eryn, always a pleasure. And to everyone out there. Go have some fun.

Intro/Outro (41:20)
The Bill of Rights Institute engages, educates, and empowers individuals with a passion for the freedom and opportunity that exists in a free society. Check out our educational resources and programs on our website mybri.org. Any questions or suggestions for future episodes? We'd love to hear from you. Just email us at comments@fabricofhistory.org and don't forget to visit us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram to stay connected and informed about future episodes. Thank you for listening.