Something New - a musical theatre podcast

Episode 310 - Claire Karpen and James Ortiz

March 30, 2015 Joel B. New
Something New - a musical theatre podcast
Episode 310 - Claire Karpen and James Ortiz
Show Notes Transcript
CLAIRE KARPEN is an actor, writer, and director. Her performing credits include David Ives's The Heir Apparent, directed by John Rando @ CSC; Into the Woods at the Old Globe, McCarter, and Fiasco; The 60's Project @ Goodspeed; The Last Five Years @ Stamford Center for the Arts; Richard III, The Tempest, Much Ado About Nothing, and Comedy of Errors @ Trinity Rep. She co-wrote Hardcore West Virginia, with my friend of many years Mike Pettry, which was part of a 2012 ASCAP Musical Theatre Workshop. As a director, she has had a hand in The Woodsman @ 59E59; Henry IV Part I, Trelawny of the Wells, Frankie and Johnny in the Clair de Lune and A Little Night Music, all @ Juilliard; and Voices in My Head @ Ars Nova. She received her training at Juilliard and Brown University. She can currently be seen as Cinderella and Granny in Fiasco Theater’s critically-acclaimed revival of INTO THE WOODS, now playing at The Laura Pels Theatre in New York, as part of Roundabout Theatre Company’s current season.JAMES ORTIZ is a NYC based actor, director, writer, puppet designer, and co-artistic director of Strangemen & Co. Acting credits include The Woodsman (59e59) El Gato Con Botas (Tectonic Theatre Co.), On the Head of a Pin (Strangemen) , and Rhinoceros (UglyRhino). Design/directorial credits (puppet or otherwise) include: the Tempest (D.C. Shakespeare) King Lear (Public Theatre and Theatre for a New Audience) Midsummer Night’s Dream (New Place Players) Miss Lilly Gets Bones (Studio 42) My Base and Scurvy Heart (Studio 42) The Little Mermaid (Glass Bandits), and The Woodsman (Ars Nova.) Recipient of the 2013 Jim Henson Foundation Grant. Song Presentation: Jenny Neale performs "The Fort" from The Songs of Joel B. New, Volume I, now available for purchase on Repertwa.com.
JBN:

this is Joel. Be New and you're listening to something new. My chance to talk and collaborate with the savviest performers. I know to hear their stories and get to the heart of what makes them the working multifaceted artists they have come to be. Today's first guest artist is an actor, writer, and director. Her performing credits include David Ives, the heir apparent directed by John Brando at CSC into the woods at the old globe, McCarter and fiasco, the 60s projects at Goodspeed the last five years at Stanford Center for the arts. Richard the third the tempest. Much Ado about nothing and comedy of errors at Trinity Rep. She co-wrote Hardcore West Virginia with my friend of many years, Mike Petrie, which was part of a 2012 ASCAP musical theater workshop. As the director. She has had a hand in the woodsmen at 59 he 59 Henry the fourth part, one Trelawny of the wells, Frankie and Johnny and the Clair de Lune and a little night music all at Julliard and voices in my head at ars Nova. She received her training at Julliard and Brown University. She can currently be seen as Cinderella and granny in fiasco theaters. Critically acclaimed revival of into the woods now playing at the Laura Palace theater in New York as part of roundabout theater company's current season. Obviously I'm talking about clear carpet and clear carpet. Thanks for being on my show.

Speaker 4:

Hi Joel. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh. Of course. Claire comes to us today via Skype because we are all so busy.

JBN:

Today's second guest artist is a New York based actor, director, writer, puppet designer and Co artistic director of strange men and company acting credits include the woodsmen at 59 59 hell got to a Combo test at tectonic theater company on the head of a pin at strange men and rhinoceros at ugly Rhino Design Slash directorial credits club or otherwise include the tempest at DC Shakespeare, multiple king leers at the public theater and theater for new audience. Midsummer night's dream. New place players. Miss Lily gets boned at studio for 42 my base and scurvy heart. Also at Studio 42 a little mermaid at class bandits and the woodsmen at ars Nova recipient of the 2013 Jim Henson Foundation grant. Obviously I'm talking about James Ortiz. James[inaudible]

Speaker 4:

being on my show. Not at all. Thanks for having me. Thanks for joining me via Skype on this Sunday pseudo morning. I still consider it

Speaker 2:

the morning news this morning on a Sunday. It's morning. I think it's a morning. If you're like a freelance art maker. I think morning is like maybe from like noon to three

JBN:

or a not to age either of us, but known you since

Speaker 5:

I went to Grad school and, um, and we've known each other through many a mutual friend, including the very talented writers, Andy Hertz who you went to college with, right?

Speaker 6:

Yeah. Andy and I went to Brown together. Yes. We went to Pandora.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. And Mike Petrie of course, who's actually accompanied, uh, a few times on this show, so everybody's very familiar with him. And, um, I also wanted to do a throwback to you. Um, I remember this one time, I want to say it was 2006[inaudible] you and I, we were Andy's house and we sang together for this Sondheim themed anniversary.

Speaker 6:

Yes, we did. I knew what you're going to say. Yes.

Speaker 5:

And you and I sang it takes to from inside the voices.

Speaker 6:

Zaida and it was such a delight. That was,

Speaker 5:

it was really fun. And look at you now full circle, actually doing the woods.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. And actually, yeah. And actually, um, so another kind of fun, you know, throwback is, um, Andy, uh, our, you know, our mutual friend who, whose house we were at when we sang it takes too. He actually music directed a production of into the woods that I directed at Brown in my untrue, my undergrad years. So, yeah. So, so the woods has made that sort of, um, a special appearance at many times in my life.

Speaker 5:

You've been into and out of the woods. Yes. Yes. Um, so, so Claire, I just, I want to just talk from the beginning. Like where, where do you come from? Like[inaudible]

Speaker 6:

where do I come from? It's like philosophically or geographically.

Speaker 5:

Uh, again, give me a mix. Give me both.

Speaker 6:

You're good, right? Well, no, I, um, so I w I grew up in Connecticut, so about an hour outside of the city. Okay. Um, so New York City was always the big city to me. Um, and it's where I came in to see all of my shows. Uh, you know, all the shows. And, um, it was a very special place and I always wanted to live here. I never knew if I would, but I always wanted to. Um, and then, um, I went to college at Brown in, uh, providence. Um, and then I moved to the city and I was here for a couple of years before I decided that I really wanted to get very serious about acting. Um, and so I applied to some Grad programs and, uh, lucky for me got into Juilliard, which was, um, a real gift for me. Um, and so, uh, just trained there and then graduated a few years ago and have been out now in the profession, uh, working as an actor. And then through all of that, I, um, I will say that, um, I've always led from acting, but I've been able to do, um, you know, other things. And definitely just all through my life I've always been creating work. So, you know, when I was a kid it would be like forcing my brother to be in things and, you know, dressing him up and making him do dances. Um, but then, you know, yeah. And, um, uh, and then into college, um, and into, in high school and college, it was always a mix of directing and a little bit of producing and, um, and a little bit of writing. So, uh, so that's what I'm very happy to say I'm still doing now, which is really fine. OK. I'm actually really never

Speaker 5:

met you before, which is weird. Uh, when I discovered that the guy who wrote and directed the woodsmen was also the woodsmen, I like my jaw dropped to the floor, like I couldn't believe it. And, but it also at the same time, like made perfect sense when I put all those things together, I was like, I was like, oh, of course he wrote it and directed it. Just, um, the whole piece was so organic and I want to talk about that later. Um, but I want to just start from the very beginning. Where do you come from and yeah,

Speaker 2:

cause I have no idea where you're from. Yeah. Um, well my, I always kind of start with the fact that my parents are both New Yorkers. They both actually, uh, worked at 34th street, Macy's when they were in like the 70s, and they met there and, and uh, Eh, they moved around a lot with my dad's work. Uh, he's just, he's, uh, a clothing salesman and, um, and uh, I was born in upstate New York, but we moved to in Albany and we moved to Texas when I was one. So I usually, and I usually say that, uh, you know, I should be a Texan, but I think since my upbringing and my family are so not that, that is sort of hard to identify with that although I love Texas and it's sort of extraordinary. But you know, the, the, the, the, the buckle of the Bible belt is a really extraordinary place. Indeed. It is. Indeed. It's really, really a special place. It's really interesting like character studies Galore.

Speaker 5:

And where did you find theater? When did, where did theater find you?

Speaker 2:

Um, well, I think I really started off as the really, um, introverted, shy, um, uh, art painting, sculpting kid. And that was really, that was my identifying feature, I think, um, in elementary school. And then do a little loan, do what?

Speaker 5:

Like, I'm going to go do my art and I'm going to do it alone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I think that was kind of the nature of the beast, you know, I'm the youngest of three, so I think there's some correlation there in some capacity. But, um, uh, so I started off there and then I sort of found my way into like a drama class or two and then a theater class and a little bit of this and that and this and that. And, and I think sort of along the way, and then I, you know, and then high school kind of took over and, you know, I became the theater club president and just sort of, you know, uh, you know, the past, the diverged like you do, like you do. Um, but I think my passion for art was still there, but it sort of turned it off a little bit. And then I think my time, um, I was reminded that in my neighborhood there was a, uh, a marionette puppet troop that would kind of go around, excuse me, go around through all the parks in the park department, the parks and rec department, um, through my local town. Every summer they'd go through all the parks and they would do a little like really rinky tank puppet shows. And I remember seeing them a lot when I was a kid and going, this is so cool. Um, but that was sort of it. And I think, I think my mother was trying to get me out of the house and she just sort of said like, I'm going to sign you up for this thing and you're going to do this one summer. And I did. And then it just, you know, it just sort of from that point on, um, puppetry just became an identifying feature of me. Um, and I've since sort of put together, I think, or, or had a realization that I think it's the, it's the really delicious intersection between fine art and puppetry, and that's, that's no new information. Excuse me. Uh, intersection between fine art and theater. Yup. Um, and think, I mean, you know, it's character analysis from the ground ops. I mean literally you are deciding what their fingernails look like. You know, you, it's, it's, it's the most exacting, the most, um, freeing and a very bizarre sort of way. Um, so I think I've sort of found my way to there and, uh, you know, here I am as suppose. That's really cool. Well, speaking of Julliard,

Speaker 6:

so you went there for Grad school. Was that for acting or directing or how does that work for acting there? Yeah, so I was never acting. It's, um, you know, an intensive, intensive, intensive acting program, um, which was fantastic. Um, while I was there though, I did get to do some student initiated projects where in the very, very limited time you have, you get a bunch of people together and you put on a show high. And what are the big ones that I did was a little night music because I love that song name, obviously. Yes, yes. Don't we all. And so, um, and so I decided that I wanted to do a musical. And because it was Juilliard, I thought it would be wonderful to find something that could take advantage of the cross section of brilliant genius people that they have there. Yeah. So a little night music was a good fit in terms of musicians. We got musicians from the music department, we got actors in the drama division and we got, um, some dance, uh, dancer De Choreographic from the dance division. And we got, um, uh, vocal arts students, uh, to sing the quintet and that show. And so we put that all together. So I did, so I directed there and then I did a little bit of, um, sort of teaching over the summers and now I'm actually doing some teaching and directing as a guest director for them every now and then as well. Um, cause I think the teachers sort of sensed I had an instinct for it and a passion for it. So they've been very generous and asked me back to work with the students. This one. Um, yeah, it was really fun. Yeah. Are they fine? I don't know what I'm, I don't know what I'm teaching them. But getting something, assume you didn't immediately go to Grad school right after Undergrad, right. There was like a few years gap, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and then in that, in that gap, I sort of did again a little bit of everything. Um, I did, um, some acting, that's when I went to go do this project it good speed and some workshops and concerts and that kind of thing. And then I also did some, um, some, uh, directing and, and producing my friends and I started a little theater company for a time and we did a couple plays. Um, and I worked, yeah, yeah. There was a, and daddy makes seven. Makes Seven. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that was, that was a really fun project, a very special project for us. So what brought about the decision to return to academia? Well, um, I think because I was doing a lot of different things, I felt like I was actually spreading myself a little thin and I didn't really have a strong direction. And, um, so there was that, there was also, um, that I just, uh, felt like I could get better as an actor. I just really felt like I could get better. And I took this, I s I applied and got into this program called, um, the Public Shakespeare lab, which I, I can't, I don't know if they're still doing, but, um, it was a basically like a summer training program in Shakespeare, but for like people in their careers and at various stages in their careers. And so I did that for summer and it was almost like Grad school light. It was like a, it was almost like a taste of what Grad school could be because we had these amazing teachers coming in and we were working, um, at a release, you know, I did high level and s o w I, I, oh, I'm really ready for this and this feels really good and I feel like I'm getting better. So I think this would be a good move for me. And, uh, so then I, I decided to apply and like I said, um, Julliard was a, it's just, it's been a real gift because not only has, do I feel like I'm a much better actor now, um, but I'm also a better singer because of how I've learned certain things about my, um, my instrument and gotten to practice that. And, uh, I might think of a better director and a better teacher. And so all of those things that I was doing before, I'm now much better at having trained as far as

Speaker 5:

puppet design. When, when did you make your first puppet and what was it?

Speaker 2:

What's that? Oh my God, uh, Jesus, Joel. Um, I'm just trying to actually remember things, um, well or just tell me like an early pro bono puppet or, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, it would be a thing where I would, I think, I mean, I have a lot of marionettes and that's really where I began because that was what the puppet troop did initially. And then I, I made a lot of marionettes and I have a Piero Puppet Marionette, um, that a lot of things from sort of like, this is a wicked winch or this is a dragon, you know, it's something to think that'd be really excited about making for the sake of being like, I have a dragon, but, um, um, but I think like in terms of like, uh, you know, articulate detailed, like actually legitimately considered a puppet, I think, um, this parole Mariana, but I still have, actually, I haven't, my house right now is, uh, one of the early ones I would say.

Speaker 5:

Do you find yourself gravitating toward the same sort of projects no matter what role you, um, are kind of cast in a[inaudible]? How do you mean? Like, you mean, like say you're, you're, um, like if you're only, or I guess, I guess the, the other side of the question is, are there ever instances where like your quote unquote just the actor or just the director or just the puppet designer and do you, and do those all kind of feel like, you know, it's,

Speaker 2:

no, no, no. Just the, I think the woodsmen was sort of an explosion of like all the things that I love in one place. Yeah. Um, is it the exception to the rule or, um, do you get to do a lot of things and you get to do on rules generally? I mean, the great thing about strange, when does that, I, I can try on the different hats. I mean, I went to SUNY purchase, I went to the conservatory, the Acting Conservatory there. Um, and my focus was acting and then I graduated. And then, uh, the very first day I got out of the door was on an acting job, but actually at El Gato con voters, which was this amazing puppet show at the new victory that Moises Kaufman directed. And it was a, with puppetry by the blind summit, a puppet company. And they're amazing because a, um, or this amazing company from the U K that, uh, actually did the puppets for the London Olympics opening ceremony several years ago. Oh Wow. Like they did all these playful, extraordinary things.[inaudible] which was crazy. In the night. It sort of re shifted my gears towards puppetry and, and uh, you know, direction was always a thing that was a big part of me. But of course you don't get to explore those things when you're in a conservatory. I think the company was formed because I think a lot of us had a bunch of cool ideas that we were all really excited by and then I would go, well, sure, I'll take that on and I've never done that. And that sounds fun. And you know, learning about set design and learning about, um, storytelling generally. Yeah. I mean, it's never before except for the woodsmen have I been able to wear so many hats, both as a blessing and that that was both a blessing and a curse. You know, that's gonna be my question to. Did you like that or just you? I mean, I did. Of course I did. It was, it was also, I think what made the woodsmen made my experience that I really thought to sort of bring the people in a room together that I really believed in, um, uh, in the cast and, uh, on the team. And do you find yourself gravitating toward the same sort of projects as a director that you do as an actor? Or do you find there's definitely gay split?

Speaker 6:

Um, no, I think they're similar. I think they're similar. I think I'm, um, I mean stylistically, not necessarily, not necessarily. I mean the woodsmen is, uh, like a very, um, special, special and unique piece. Um, but I really, really responded to that. I joined that they had already started with some workshops and some, some early versions of it. And then I, when I do, I, so I saw it, I saw it and a friend of mine was in it and I love, I just loved it and really responded to it. And so reached out to her just to let her know that. And at the time they were looking for somebody to come on and join as a co-directors. So she recommended me. I met James and we immediately hit it off and felt really good, um, about working together. So, but that, that's not necessarily a piece that, um, I would've known that I would have been a good fit for because it's, it's very special and unique and it's mostly like movement. But I think the similarity between that and say, you know, like a little night music or a, um, or a Frankie and Johnny and the Clair de Lune or things like that is, um, that it's, uh, it's just really about, um, they're really good stories. So I'm really into good stories and they have a great mix of, um, of, of humor and uh, and pathos and, um, and that they really move people. I think fundamentally, I'm interested in moving people, um, at the very base of it, I want to do things that move people. If it means that moves them to laugh, it means it moves into cry or moves them to think somewhere in there. That's what I'm most interested in. Um, so that's kind of the guide for me, I guess.

Speaker 2:

Who all are the strange men? Well, it's just, it's, it's was founded by myself and two other people from SUNY purchase. And then, um, and then we've sort of expanded a mean at this point. I think our artistic board is about six people strong. Okay. And, um, and then, uh, we sort of have a wide reach of a lot of other young excited, uh, writers and designers and other artists that are, that are perpetually sending us new ideas for us to sort of, um, sit with and think about, um, you know, what's it been, was, oh, I mean the version that you saw, cause you saw the one that was just at 59th that just happened. Yes. The one that just happened, then we'll just have, um, so you, that was the fourth iteration of that show. So in the past two and a half years ago, it was the first version of the show. Wow. So, you know, we, we, we just really enjoy, um, development. Uh, I think that's the best way to put it. And, uh, I really enjoyed that. And, uh, so the nature of the beast is sort of a morphous and, and really kind of glorious. And I think it shouldn't have worked the way that I think it did in the capacity of the show. Just the number of people that were involved in the, and the different elements. And I think the fact that it was a passion project for me, and then it sort of, um, and I think it became a passion project for everybody else involved, I think is why I think we were able to bring the show back for a second run at 59th, you know? Yeah. Um, so I think it's, it's, this is a, this, this, this, I think the[inaudible] is the exception to the rule. Um, but an exception that I'm now going to strive to, uh, uh, live up to, you know, I, I don't, I don't want to step backwards from here.

Speaker 5:

I loved the woodsmen so much when I, I s I heard about it, uh, during its first incarnation in New York. And, um, I, you know, I'm, I'm a big[inaudible] fan. I'm a big puppet fan, uh, theater where it, where it looks very DIY. Um, you know, I just, I, I loved everything about the idea of it. And then, and then a close nose, I was, I was really just kicking myself and then when it came back I was like, all right, that I am, I'm seeing this no matter what. And um, yeah, so it was really, really cool. Um, I, I loved it. Everything about it like felt very organic. Like it, it felt like the group had written it and created it together in the same room. Yeah. Um, yeah. Right. Yeah. Tell me about that. Yeah. Um, the collaborative group.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it really was. I mean, um, it's, it's hard to say that I wrote something when there's no words in it. Like, um, yeah, I, I that credit was sort of given to me. They're really sort of thing. Um, but, um, I would, I mean the first meeting that we had, I'll say this, it was the woodsman began two and a half years ago as a, a small piece to be seen at a fundraiser for another show. We were taking the 59. We were all really excited about it as just sort of like a thing to show off. And then, so I really had three weeks to put somebody together. I the tin man and the which were built during that time. And at that point that was the only puppets. Those were the only puppets on the show. And, um, and it really just started off as a, uh, here's the people that I think would be really interesting to work with and here's the story itself. So I sort of read them the passages from the novels, um, uh, which are really like a handful of paragraphs at best I would say. I mean, really this story is really a paragraph in the first book that then gets brought up again in later books. So we kind of used a lot of the details from other books. Um, and then, uh, we, I, you know, we did some exercises, we found some different things and then I kind of went away and I cranked out an outline of just sort of, you know, each scene needs to be able to serve these functions. These are the events that have to happen in each scene. And then as a group, we would just come together and, and try to hit those bullet points. Um, then along the way we kind of ended up realizing what we were talking about and what the story was. And, um, and every time that we've done the show, I would sit down with a different collaborator and sort of refine the outline because of course, you know, you do it once. And the great thing is, is that, you know, I think it's, I think it's actually an interesting thing, feedback after a show. Um, and uh, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's difficult and most of the time it's both. Um, but I think what was great is it everybody, there was nobody that just sort of say there's no good job and sort of walked away. They had a lot of things to say. They had a lot of input and they had a lot of opinions about the piece and when things were just not working in the piece and the early days there was huge plot elements that were like, what? Um, so it was amazing to, you know, use that. And I love working this way of using audiences to, you know, sort of find the, the, um, what's the common note that I keep getting with the common thing? I keep hearing them out and then, and then that's the thing to listen to. I think it's really easy to just sort of listen to, you know, I think, I think, I think everybody has an opinion. Everybody has a, everybody has their point of view. But I think the thing to make the thing to listen to is what does everybody say? Um, no cause I think otherwise you get really bogged down by one person's opinions. And uh, we, we actually talk about that[inaudible] strange moment when we're, um, when somebody is approaching this with a play and we go, we like the play, but the play doesn't, you know, we wonder if we would just what you, what we think you want this play to be. Um, so it's, uh, you know, it's a funny question. Anyway, so we got together in the room, we did some outlines and then, and each version we would revise. And then I met, uh, Claire Carpen Petrie, who, you know, yes, I do. Um, you know, who's lovely and actually I met her because the original[inaudible], uh, ish, many Amanda's who's now like a little darling in the Broadway and off-broadway world, um, uh, was the original Nemi the love interest in the show and that she had to leave for a big project and we had lunch and we were chatting about and she was like, you know, I think it would be really useful if it was, if you had another pair of eyes on the outside because it really had been me in it and outside of it and trying to work in a room with mirrors and you're[inaudible] and you kind of go, that's insane. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's like, it looks okay, I guess. Um, it's really, you know, and there was, you know, that sort of exaggeration cause I would certainly always have like, um, people that could come in and out to sort of offer their thoughts. But I think maybe we need someone consistently there. And she introduced me to her classmates from Julliard, Claire and um, who's now Cinderella and into the woods on at the roundabout. I know I'm seeing it next week or you are, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. It's a very similar aesthetic to the woodsmen. Actually we talked about that. Did you? Cool. Yeah. There actually was an article, I can't remember who, I think it was Huffington Post that talked about like what's up with stories about woods and you go, I don't know. You know that's a great conversation for you know your shrink, but let's talk about it.

JBN:

Make sure you purchase your$12 tickets to my mid season concert happening Friday, April 24th at 9:30 PM at the duplex in the West village. A ticket link can be conveniently found on the Joby new.com homepage. While you're there, you can access the entire something new episode archive by clicking on the podcast. Have something new supported by linda.com begin learning software, business and creative skills. Anytime, anywhere with video instruction from recognized industry experts, visit lynda.com/something new for a free 10 day trial. And that's Lynda with a y.

Speaker 2:

How, how easy is it for you to take off the hat that you're not necessarily hired to wear?

Speaker 6:

Oh, you know, back in the day it was a lot harder. Now it's, it's much easier. It's actually a big relief I've learned. Yeah. Because, because every, you know, each job is, has its own challenges and it's on rewards. But, um, but there's, what's great is that like when I'm an actor, I'm so relieved to be an actor because directing is, um, is really difficult. And so, I mean, both are really difficult. So it's really a relief to take off the hat and go, you wear it to the director, I defer to you. Yeah. And, and I would love to luxuriate and just being an actor on this. And then as a director, it's a similar thing. It's kind of like when you're, when you're directing, you put on the director hat and you, you get to, and in a way you get to play all the parts to a point or you get to, you know, dip your hand in all the parts, but you also then get to sit back and let the actors work their magic. Um, and so it's actually, it, I, it's actually credit belief every, you know, every now and then there's the voice that goes, oh, maybe we could do it this way or maybe we could do it this way. And luckily in the right room, I think that the directors and the actors are all collaborating. So it's, it's, it's easy to, um, allow both of those, those instincts to, to come out a little more. Um, and if you do get in, if I am an actor and I get inspired by something I see through my director, I that I can, I can offer it as a form of collaborating with the rest of the people in the room. But, um, but again, what's great is that then the director gets to make the choice as to whether or not they use that idea or not. And that's a big relief because they keep making a decision. Yes. Um, and vice versa, you know, as a director, my actor instincts I think helped me help actors. Um, but it also helps me know when it's, you know, time for me to step away and really let the actor do their job. Yeah. So now I'm alone now, but that was a learning that was a learning curve. You know, when I was younger, I think, um, I, those would cross a lot more than was useful. And now I've learned a little bit more about how to be more useful to people in whichever role in planning. So you code directed the woods and then I came in, as I mentioned, I saw a version of it. And then when I came in, basically what they needed is James is, you know, was directing it, designing it. He's making a pup. This is his, you know, it was his baby starring in it. He's, you know, and obviously as you can imagine, that's a lot of hats to wear. And um, and there's also was nobody really to sit outside of it and tell people what they were seeing and respond to it. So, um, so the company decided, and James decided that it would be really good to have, um, a co-director. And so, uh, my friend recommended me and, um, I got really excited and, and then James and I met, we just started talking and we just hit it off and we have a similar way of talking about the work and looking at the work and we're after the same things in the work. So then we just sort of sat down and hashed out, um, uh, what we thought the story was and how to improve upon it and make it stronger and make the, the important events that we thought, uh, really made it special land. And so we, we sort of hashed out, um, uh, diff, the, we, we have the story evolved with us just sort of like hashing it out and then we brought it back in the room with the rest of the actors and with their, uh, collaboration, again, very collaborative room, very unsolvable driven work. Um, just sort of the tone. Yeah. Right. I mean, somebody said something beautiful about how it feels like we're all, everyone's like the same animal. I mean, everybody breathes together. Breadth is a huge part of the show and you can feel everybody just breathing together through the whole thing. And then also, I should say that like last year, um, we, we did the show and then we basically remounted it for this year. But in the remounting I was doing rehearsals for, into the woods. So, um, one of our wonderful actors who had been with the project since the beginning came on as associate director. And so she was also really helpful in helping us remounted and being that third eye when I couldn't be there. Um, and her name is Devin, Don Campbell, and she's not gambled. Devin. Don Cannon and she's wonderful. Um, so I just want to give her a special shout out for being, um, a huge part of this particular remounting of the show. Awesome. Thanks Devon. It was good.

Speaker 5:

Do you remember if there were any specific moments or elements, um, that clear brought to the table that maybe hadn't been pointed out before or like what kind of sensibility she brought that up?

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, it was interesting, it was a lot of dudes in a room before was there and Claire really brought, it sounds kind of dumb, but she brought this, uh, feminine touch to the whole piece in a really useful way. Um, you know, one thing that was always sort of in the way, and I think it's still sort of tricky when you see the show and I think it's there. I think you just have to look for it. But why does nick, uh, uh, my character, why does he keep chopping when you know that it's going to destroy him? Right. And you go, well, it's a fable, but that's not really an answer that anybody can use it in such that does not really an excuse in the moment, you know? Yeah. Um, um, and the end, before it was always just about, because he should and when Claire came in, she had some really lovely things to say and we threw around a lot of interesting ideas of why would, why would she is his wife, is his love of his life. Let him keep going. And then for a while we kept talking about what if she was pregnant. Um, and that this was, and you go, I picked that. No, she was able to kind of talk about those scary things that I think none of the men in the room would even have thought of thinking about, um, out of just fear for bringing it into their own lives.

Speaker 5:

I was curious about adaptation because I as a writer myself, um, I've, I've had, I've adapted books, uh, for the stage and mythology for the stage. And I'm curious when and how you, um, you were able to like put the books down and did you ever return to them return to the source material? Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I actually, I'm actually[inaudible] you're working

Speaker 2:

on something else right now that is, um, that is a very much of a scripted piece based off of a novel. And, and I'm working with a writer in that capacity and he's fantastic and he's very much of this school of thought of, um, now we know what the story is. Let's put this, let's put the book down and, and get and, and create what we need. Agreed. Yep. And Go ahead, excuse me, and then go back there for the details that we might need and you go, okay, cool. But I, for s, I, I'm much more generally, I'm much more of a school of thought of keeping around. Um, you know, they'll, they'll be that, there'll be that important piece that's, you just go, right. There's a comma there where there should have been a period that means something, you know? Hmm. And having spent so much time in sort of a classical theater or just in, in, in different variety of training programs, you just kind of go like, punctuation is important. Uh, you know, I prefer working that way. But like any adaptation, I don't know about you, but I just kind of, I really can't even commit to the project if I can't find the, the Ooey gooey juicy universal conversation that's trying to have at the bottom of it all. Oh, sure. No, I, and, uh, I think it's, I, it's really the beginning of it. If I, if I can get to that or, or, uh, be able to highlight or know what needs to be in order to get to that, then I think that's sort of the beginning of the journey for an adaptation. It's funny, I, it's hard for me to talk about how to like, how to adapt because I, I pretty much only do it so I don't really have a, I don't have a barometer for original work cause I don't, you know, I haven't really written an original piece. You know what I mean?

Speaker 5:

Huh. Yeah, yeah. From, for me it's, um, I, I wish I had the patience to sit or to, to, to find the, uh, the universal question, uh, before I started putting the pen to paper. Um, I'm, I'm very antsy and I like to get started. Uh, for me, it, um, what it usually ends up happening is that I sure I start, I, I think I figured out, I follow the impulse to write it and I don't necessarily find out why I'm writing it until I'm, I'm, you know, probably about ankle deep. That's amazing, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

I love that. I love that. It's actually really interesting. I have a, I have a big, I have a big fear of, um, work that is created with an extreme focus on the how versus the why. Let's just me and I think because since I work with puppetry and I work with theatrical elements that are very heightened and, and, uh, you know, big stories. Yeah. I'm, it's really easy to fall into. Wouldn't it be cool if, um, yes, if game. It's just, it's just, it's, I mean, it's just like, it's right there. It's like, yeah. And it would be so great if like her shirt opened up and then we had butterflies fly out. Wouldn't that be great? And you go, yeah, sure.

Speaker 5:

For, sorry, I somehow knew you were going to say butterflies.

Speaker 2:

Oh that's funny. I don't know why there was a, there was a variety of other animals that could've left. Matter of adjustment. I think I went to butterflies butterfly's cause you know it's, it's still morning for me. I just don't let myself go there. It's been really interesting working on this new piece that I'm trying to work on because it's been about a year and a half of just trying to get a script out and you know, and I've been doing everything in my power not to start sketching the puppets or the sets or the other things that would be, and you know, so the great thing is it just stays in my head and it can change and it can morph. But I know that I just know me that if I begin going there, I won't look, I won't go. I won't come back. Yeah, you won't look back because then I'll be in full production in my head. And oftentimes I find that it gets really, really sad, um, when in thought, not in real production in life. So as a way to sort of keep up getting really depressed, um, it's a, it's a really useful way. Um, uh, approaching it.

Speaker 5:

What was the most challenging moment to dramatize would you say?

Speaker 6:

Oh, that's a really good question and I was challenging moment to dramatize. Um, I don't, you know, we had a lot of conversations about the magic in the show. Yeah. Yeah. Um, um, that, that was, uh, that was an ongoing conversation about just how magic worked and what was magical and what wasn't. Um, so that was challenging, but that was sort of a throughout out thing. One of the hardest things to stage, um, was there's a moment where, um, the, the, the main, uh, girl Nemi, um, who's the tin woodsman's Love Interest. I pepe that Tig Whitman's love interest. Actually, I love that he just barked because of it. It's gonna say is the hardest thing was, um, um, she has to run away from this beast. Um, and so having, figuring out how she runs away and how we get this, this huge puppet that's a three person manned puppet, which is this beast called the Kalita, which is a, um, a tiger and a bear. Um, a creature that's a tiger and a bear. It's beautiful. Um, yeah, isn't it gorgeous? I think James did a beautiful job, but, uh, we had to figure out how to get that on and reveal that in a right way and have her run away from it. And so that might've been the most challenging piece and we kept refining that, um, as we went. And then we, you know, like with anything, once we found everything, it was like, oh, oh, of course. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

An question. What's the first thing you do when you're designing, designing a puppet? A, the first thing I do is I think about the functionality of it. So I generally think about, um, to thinking about like the operator, about how many operators I think I can get away with, given the given whatever the budgetary constraints are. Um, how many operators could I possibly have. And then that of course affects everything else after that. And then, and then I think eventually we start getting doodling and trying to get something on paper. That's usually the beginning when you think about it. And I think a lot about textures and things cause that's half of the job of what's the texture of this thing. And then we kind of go from there. What was the most challenging moment to dramatize and what was your favorite? That's really tricky. I mean I actually kind of feel there were challenges in the prologue at the beginning cause we were just trying to cram a lot of information that you're setting up so much. We're setting up so much, but at the same time it's all meant to feel like, like uh, like all a long warm breath on your neck. Like it just meant to feel like that's a terrible analogy, Jane. A little ready to be a little creepy. It's meant to feel like a, it's meant to feel like, um, a CPF film is opening in the widescreen is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. The IRS is opening. Um, it's meant to feel like, come on back to memory for a second. So it was all of this information, uh, but trying to just be as sort of open and, and generous with it as possible. That was a challenge. Um, I also think like, uh, it's funny because the last version we just did, we had already created, met me and Claire to already really made a solid version in the year before. So this last version was, there was no, we didn't need to reinvent the wheel, so we would just did the show again and sort of adjusted a couple things, got to fine tune. So it's hard for me to think about what the immediate challenges were, you know, things like trying to guard, uh, nummies a plotline about the fact that she does have some sense of power inside of her and trying to make sure that that had a resolution. Um, I think an early versions, it was sort of a trick, uh, and we could do some really cool stuff with her having sort of magic powers, but, uh, it didn't really pay off anywhere. So we ended up kind of feeling a little cheated at the end of the state. We were able to come up with the whole thing, but she revitalizes the 10 men at the end, not spoiler alert. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that, that, yeah, that, that, that would, I would say the challenge also, I would say a big challenge is grappling with that friggin Kalita the big monster. And the play was oh yeah. Trying to build it, trying to do a fight scene with it and trying to make it actually frightening because it is just a big bag of foam. Um, that was a real challenge. It was like, it was an ex, it was a thrilling challenge, but it was challenging

Speaker 5:

the performing world. Yeah. And I'm, you're playing, and I know it's a, it's, it's a smaller ensemble than into the woods is, is accustomed to typically. Yes. And so how many actors are there?

Speaker 6:

So there are 10 actors, um, and a piano player. Um, and so, Hi Matt. Yes, Matt Castle is fantastic. Can use edgy. Yes, yes. He is everywhere. Yes. Um, and so, uh, yeah, there's just, there's just the 10 of us and we end at plus Matt and we just make the show happen. Um, which means again, Mary, similar to the Woodsmen, it's a lot of'em were onstage the whole time and uh, it's a lot of, uh, you know, you're, you're performing, you do your bit, but then you are either, um, watching and supporting by watching or you're playing an instrument on the side or you're, you know, saying something. But everybody isn't literally instrumental in making the show happen.

Speaker 5:

That's great. And so, so primarily play Cinderella. Yes. And you also played granny, right?

Speaker 6:

Yeah, I do. I mean for like two seconds. But yeah, I do. I do a little bit of granny. I do a little bit of the giants, um, and I do and we all share the narration. Oh yeah. There's no narrator. It's just all of us are the narrator collectively. Oh, I love that. In terms of getting involved in, into the woods. Um, actually I might be one of the only cast members. I hope I'm not speaking out of turn on this. I think I might be one of the only cast members who auditioned for this show because the show evolved actually with, um, with, they started just doing workshops of it because they mostly do Shakespeare, but they also do Shakespeare with a lot of music. They're all very musical people. So they thought that, you know, they would like to do musical and they were looking for material they thought would serve the way that they approach shows and also their musical sensibilities and something that they were interested in and could get passionate about and into the woods. Um, seemed like a good fit. So they just started exploring it early on and they did some workshops with most of the company members that you'll see now. Um, and uh, then they got an opportunity to do it at the McCarter in New Jersey. And, um, at the time that the wonderful talent there was wonderful, talented actress who was playing Cinderella, but she got at, I believe, like a Broadway job, so she had to drop out of the productions. So they held auditions. And, um, and I remember getting the audition for Cinderella and I remember thinking, oh my God, this would be amazing. This is one of my favorite shows of all time. These are my favorite people of all time. I've been eager to work with them again. But then I saw that it was through Cinderella. And quite honestly, I was like, I'm not Cinderella. That's not my, that's not my go-to part. I just didn't think, I just didn't necessarily think it was, I'm going to be a, you know, the right fit for me or that I could do it even. Um, and then I went in and I auditioned. And in the audition I, um, as I was looking around at the people in the room and my old friends, I was like, oh, oh, in this room I could totally be Cinderella. There's something about this. It just feels, this feels right. This feels right. And then I, you know, um, and so luckily they felt the same way and then I came on board for Princeton and had been just a part of the family ever since. So

Speaker 5:

what advice would you give anyone listening who's considering either like going back to school or performers looking to direct?

Speaker 6:

Oh, good question. Um, I think, well I think it really like fundamentally you have to follow your passion for the work. You have to be an artist first. Um, it's easy in this business to get distracted by the superficial things. And it's easy for people to tell you what you should want out of. The work is easy for people to tell you, you know, and it's how you like, what your landmarks of success are. Um, but most important is that you have your own passion for what you want to do with the work. And if you start from there, then you're going to be fine and you're going to go the right places, which isn't to be, you know, isn't to be, um, naive. I mean, there are definitely times you have to do work that you're not necessarily passionate about, but if you have that inner compass, then it will guide you wherever you need to go so that, um, and in venue it'll just, you'll just make work because you have to. So I mean, the woodsmen happened because James is an artist and he can't stop. And he had a story he wanted to tell. And so he just told it and then there was an audience for it. So it kept growing and growing and growing. Um, and I would say that my, I went back to school because I had a passion for the work and that's really what I brought into the room when I auditioned and that's what they saw and responded to. And that's really what's guided me throughout. So even also, um, my directing and teaching has just come from me being passionate. It's not that I've set out to actually, um, you know, like some of the directing I did at Juilliard, it's not even that I set out to be a director or some of the teaching I'm doing now. I didn't go to school to do, to learn how to do that, but that was a natural growth of my own artistic passion. So I think that that's the most important. Yeah. You've got to listen to that. That's, that's the compass. That's the guide. Yeah.

Speaker 5:

What advice would you give any actors listening who are looking to get into puppetry or writing or directing?

Speaker 2:

Um, I think it's that like any endeavor that you're not familiar with, it's not as frightening. Once you actually start writing puppetry, design direction, all of those things are extraordinarily fulfilling. Um, uh, make sure that you're doing it for the right reasons. Uh, if you like control, please don't be a director. Um, uh, that's, that's your, if that's your leading, um, impetus. I think maybe we should talk about something else. Um, really, if you like control, do not direct. I just think so. I mean, I just go, that's not the point. The point is, um, tell a story. The point is change my opinion. The point is, um, uh, a change. Some consciousnesses CCS. Um, uh, I, I, you know, now I will say control is a big thing in puppetry and also direction and also writing, but, um, you know, that should be a flavor and not the, and not the modus operandi. Um, but I would say for anybody trying to get into it, um, find somebody that's doing it and hang out with them. I mean, I got some great advice from a casting director. He used to work for ages ago, that if you, if you just feel like you're not having store and you're not able to get in, you feel like you're just banging your head against a wall, uh, then then try and find the window, you know, just hang out with the people that are doing the things that you like. Um, the Mo, the worst that could possibly happen is they'll say, I'm busy. Um, but, uh, uh, make friends and hang out after the show. And, uh, and, uh, and that's how I, that's how I've met all of my collaborators as people that have approached me after anything that I worked on. Um, and uh, yeah, I, I'd say that, you know, that's really cool. Forward, do good stuff.

Speaker 6:

[inaudible]

Speaker 5:

and then my last question is, instead of asking you what's next, cause I don't think that's a nice question for everybody. Um, it can be an anxiety driven. It really can, it can, like I was at a thing last night and people are always, they're like, so what are you working on? Yeah. It's like, it's like I know the answer. I, I 85% know the answer, but I mean, like the rest has to, is kind of like out of my control. Yeah. So, uh, so the question I prefer to ask you is, um, what would you like to ask from the world at this stage? And you're like, what would you like? Like, let's, let's put something out there. Like, what do you want?

Speaker 6:

Oh, what do I want? Um, I, it's funny, I think I, there's the main thing that I want and I've been very lucky to have it, but it's, the thing that I want the most is to keep getting to do really good work with people that I love. And keep holding me to higher standards. Like that's, that's like, that's the big fundamental why, um, um, on a more superficial level has it, like they're always happening. Um, I would love to do, um, I would love to do, uh, I would love to do more work in New York. I really like staying here. Um, if I can and I also would love to do work that pays well. I love that I would let them jobs that pay well cause the, the theater is less. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I just wish I paid a little bit better cause it's, it's just financially hard. Yes. Um, which is just a reality of the work that we do. Yeah. Um, so, so I, that's what I put out into the universe, the dream job, you know, get me working with people I love and projects I love and have it pay really well.

JBN:

Yeah. All right. All right. The Universe is listening. No, I don't want to be greedy. I don't know if I really want to ask for anything from Santa Claus this year because I think I've gotten a lot of really lovely stuff. Um, but I would say universe, I would love to get the rights to this piece of material that I'm working on. Okay, great. That's the thing. Yeah. All right. Universities listen on is that about, does it for our interview. This was so lovely.

Speaker 6:

Oh, thank you Joel. I'm so glad I got to check to see this with you,

JBN:

James Ortiz. Thank you so much for being on my podcast too. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I look forward to seeing what you do next and I look forward to seeing more of the, the woodsmen maybe in the future. It's a very distinct possibility from my apartment in Inwood. This is Joby new. This is James Ortiz. I'm Claire Karpin saying thank you for dropping by for something new. Thanks. All right. Thank you so much. I will. I will talk to you soon. All. Bye.

Speaker 3:

Yeah,

JBN:

now it's time to set up the song and we're shaking things up a bit. Today, I'm presenting the Fort One of the 20 selections found in my Song Book that I published last November, performed here by the amazing Jenny Neal. His voice and Sensibility helped inspire this song to be. I'm releasing this recording today alongside the announcement that my song book is moving from the free bookstore on noise trade over to the musical theater sheet, music store, repertoire.com for only 1999 20 selections, including this one from my shows and the trunk. Please check it out. Be sure to become a premium subscriber, a perfect investment for voice teachers, burgeoning musical theater writers, and my fellow Broadway nerds in general. Follow me on all things social media and you may find those links and so much more on Julian[inaudible] dot com please visit my guests websites, James, this theater company, strange men, company.com and clear carpet.com subscribe to rate. Review this podcast and tell your friends all about it. Special thanks to Pete and royal at website lines. Stephanie Leeton at Red Scandal Graphics, and Skype. Next episode is my cabaret round table with special guest speakers, Thomas Hanuk. Nikki MacCallum Noelani can and Justin Daniel

Speaker 3:

[inaudible]

Speaker 7:

[inaudible].

Speaker 8:

Do you know those days when it's raining and they don't let you play outside to keep yourself out of trouble? You go looking for places to, Huh? You grab a sheet, you grab some chicken and dinners for the little c take to the playroom upstairs. No used in school.[inaudible] both of you crowned both safe and so in.

Speaker 9:

Oh[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

and it's fairly, I guess a roof that is paid[inaudible] magic. Only those that you love can get greed. Manish, that it's understood that in Moni snacks by the playful, I'm sure you're grateful for support. We are living well in the

Speaker 9:

Oh

Speaker 8:

that sometimes the two of you, there's not enough[inaudible] sometimes that problem is strong enough. Different things. Sometimes you have to change[inaudible] and somehow you're selfish eds[inaudible] and sometimes all the[inaudible] and the wild cat make you mad.[inaudible] so sometimes the walls are closed[inaudible] so he's coming up

Speaker 10:

[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

right.

Speaker 9:

The full[inaudible]

Speaker 7:

[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

my favorite thing about grades, besides all those, this indoor fun

Speaker 7:

[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

is that as soon as[inaudible] I'm just happy to welcome the song.[inaudible] oh, we can stay. You spend the night[inaudible]

Speaker 7:

[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

children cope play[inaudible] we'll be okay in the[inaudible].

Speaker 9:

Oh,

Speaker 7:

[inaudible].