Welcome to part two this week of the Faray podcast . If you joined us two weeks ago , you remember Barbara Suttonon . We are talking , sometimes we stay on aviation , sometimes we even stay on the topic we're covering , which is cockpit automation , flight deck digitization . Did I say that right ? It's a hard word to say Digitization . Okay , Where do we leave off ? Were we done taxing ? even the last episode ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't even know if we made it in the air .
Speaker 3We definitely didn't make it into the air . We didn't talk about takeoff .
Speaker 4Let's fast forward , barb , let's fast forward .
Speaker 3All right Okay .
Speaker 4Our next phase Takeoff . We got to take this thing off .
Speaker 1We're still on the ground .
Speaker 2Yeah Hour in .
Speaker 3I'm in . Listen , a lot of the things I said I last two weeks ago still apply . If you're taking off , or if you're climbing , or if you're in cruise , right , If you're monitoring those screens and you're continuously monitoring those screens , the human factors are going to kick in . You're going to have an issue with your eyes , an issue with fatigue , an issue with memory or whatever . Like any phase of flight that you're in , whether it's the first leg or the second leg of a trip or a day or whatever it is , those things are going to greatly affect your ability to function properly in the cockpit .
Speaker 4For sure In there . I think maybe some people may forget I'm sure you don't because you're into it , but we have checklists we have to run all the time .
Speaker 4So , like when we're taxing , we have a tax checklist before takeoff . While we're technically still taxing , we have a before takeoff checklist that we are running every item and they don't take a lot of time . And we've gone to great lengths myself in the fleet , lead the check airmen in the fleet to pair that down and to boil that down because these errors do creep in . The time it takes for anybody to be heads down allows more errors and other external factors to play a part in losing situational awareness or whatever the case may be . And the same once we're in flight , so like we've taken off now out of so kind of like our call out 400 feet , the pilot monitoring would say 400 feet , the pilot flying would say okay , flaps up , y'all , damper on after takeoff checklist . And so then I have a flow as pilot monitoring to do and I have all these items .
Speaker 4And then , of course , atc . There's towers , switching over to departure . You're getting communication established with departure and doing what they say , which is often something which allows you because the other guys hand flying . So now you're , you're doing the automation stuff for not automation per se , but you are manipulating the flight guidance panel for them , for them to follow because it controls the command bars on the primary flight display . So , with their hand flying , all they're on is thrust lovers , yoke and rudder pedals . That's it . They're not touching anything else .
Speaker 4So you as pilot flight or pilot monitoring would be manipulating and basically inputting the controls ATC gave you for them to follow is the bottom line . But in there I haven't even ran the checklist . I did my flow , i talked to ATC and at some point I got to get my checklist done . I never followed up with the checklist And so you know Barb's talking about , you know how these arrows can creep in and how digitization automation plays a part . And , like we're not , we haven't even talked about the time , the time it takes , which artificially compresses the timeline to get things done .
Speaker 4Which obviously weighs on you as a person 100% .
Speaker 3So this is another phenomenon or phenomena , i don't know . I don't even know if it's that , but its cognitive overload is what it's called And it's generally regarded to define it as like mental processing demands that are placed on a person during the performance of a task . So , like you said , you're hand flying , you're doing certain things , you have another pilot , let's say , monitoring the automation or whatever it is , and that the workload as it gets . and you didn't even run a checklist right . So the workload refers to all the tasks that you have to do . And then this overload happens when you know you have more than you're physically or mentally capable of doing , which oftentimes will happen in a GA aircraft because you're not always flying with , you know , a first officer or a captain or whatever , right , you might be flying alone . And then you have all of these other elements that you need to run right .
Speaker 4And I don't know how they do it . I think about it in like . We tend to have this , like this stigma against a single pilot citation or a TBM or a Malibu , whatever it is , ciris in a highly complex class Bravo airspace . It's busy , you're an IMC and you have all of the automation and technology that we have in a transport category airplane , but you're a single pilot now , correct ? It's like how do they do it Like I don't need to know ?
Speaker 1There was some insurance video I had to watch the Kings had it on their FIRC program of a guy flying back from the business owner flying back in his phenom from the Caribbean landed in Miami like during a storm . It's obviously trying to like teach you stuff about like decision-making process And it was terrifying .
Speaker 2Like what's a phenom again ?
Speaker 1The Bombardier Embraer . Embraer , it's just a small sweet personal .
Speaker 2Like a single pilot jet .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 4Yeah , they're single pilot , but then you can get .
Speaker 1Like it just walked through the loads that guy had on him And this is obviously acting . I don't know if it was based off a true story or not And like you're just like , oh , that's logical , how he's like being overwhelmed right now .
Speaker 1And like air traffic control is telling him something . He's hitting a couple of buttons on the thing . It's not doing it , so that's taking his attention , but he's still going . However many knots into Miami . Like , while he's trying to figure this out , everything is still going forward . It doesn't matter that that task is tripping him up for like a little bit longer than it should have . And now he's just behind and gets a little frazzled And it's like that's how statistics happen .
Speaker 4Yeah , it's piling up .
Speaker 4It's like playing this game of Tetris And like you're trying to that last , that last that row you have a perfect row of bricks at the bottom And you're towards the higher , higher levels , right , and it's really speeding up , and you're trying to figure out how to get that one in there and you're tapping a couple of times to get it to fit right in that slot But you already have three other pieces on the board coming down . That's exactly the way it feels When we see this slot and I know we're kind of going out of chronological order now ,
but that's when we feel . A lot is when they give you a crossing restriction on descent People . Decent planning is what I see more commonly Then not as the issue .
Speaker 4They don't know how to decent plan . They don't know how to do math , quick math . And if the FMS , the flight management system , is not Pre-programmed for this crossing restriction which a lot of times , we can see it coming because , again , situation awareness You listen to the person in front of you . You probably been following them for 300 miles .
Speaker 4So I listen to the person in front of you , see what cross restriction they get constantly going into . You know South Florida , we get , you know we get on in pin cross , in pin two , nine or zero . Well , the chart says three , one , zero . If you have that in there , obviously that's two thousand feet difference . It depends on when they give you . But I could be a very big difference in The , the vertical speed required to cross it . And if you can't program that quickly or do the quick mental math , okay , i'm at 31 . I need to get to 21 and I have five miles to do it , which I can't do that math right now anyways either . But that's That's well . You'd need a lot more than that . That'd be crazy . Yeah , you can't . If you can't do the mental math to make that cross restriction work , that takes you completely out of out of out of the role . You're completely saturated . Task . Saturated is the term that I use . Right , that's exactly what it's called . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 3Yeah , a hundred percent . And now compound that with , let's say , you know , an emergency Right where you have extra stress and you're trying to get down really quickly , or something like that right . Humans don't have the capacity to complete all of these things , especially when they're under pressure . You know the the the human factor side , like biologically , psychologically or whatever . You , you react to things by processing what's going on . So in your example , where , let's say , you're setting the FMS right , you're understanding that , okay , here's what I'm seeing in the planes in front of me .
Speaker 3And then you have to make a decision Well , am I gonna program it now , am I gonna wait ? and then you have to process the response of that decision . So , am I , am I doing this , am I not doing this ? or let's say you , you , you get something to program and you're going Okay , now what do I have to do ? and then you have to actually act out on it . So in that space of time , yeah , it can happen instantaneously , let's say within a human brain , but if there are other things going on at the time , that process is going to be interrupted . Your situational awareness is going to be Interrupted , you're not going to know where you are . And , like I said , compound it with an emergency in your toast .
Speaker 4Yeah , i guess even simpler than that . Then , just you Working with yourself in a single pilot , yeah , am I gonna program this now ? Am I gonna wait ? and maybe they'll give me what the chart says ? in a two pilot crew , you're always hey , man , you mind if I put this in now . So it's not even . You're not even have a talk with yourself anymore . You haven't done another person you may have already had the talk what takes , which maybe takes you a little bit out of the equation , but then you're gonna present the same question to another person . It's gonna take them out of the equation for a minute .
Speaker 4So who's watching the airplane at this point in time while you're having this conversation , where you're both a Dedicating hard drive or a ram to you know , to this , to this one Stupid at the point at that point in time article . Now , it allows you to be ahead . Here's the , here's the justification You have in that conversation . Now Put you both more back in the saddle later on down the road when it is arguably There's more happening . So there is that . There's a win , there's a little bit of a win there to have it , but it's better to do it early than late . Yes , but you still have to do it . So if you do it early still both takes you out . You kind of do lose a little bit . You know you're both not flying the airplane But it cruise , eh , i mean it .
Speaker 4You get desensitized to it . Like I'm amping up some stuff a little bit right now , but you do get desensitized . All of this I and one of my best analogies is If you're used to driving your Buick all the time , 35 miles an hour feels fast . If you're riding a crotch rocket every day , 140 miles an hour feels fast . That that is , that , is this . That is the thing . Like you get desensitized to some of the stimuli You can . You just buy a , the repetition and and the conditioning you get . You get more in tune with how quickly information comes at you .
Speaker 3Yeah , i think also what you . You said something very important about effective Communication , right . If you have that conversation in your head and you bring it out to someone else And now you guys are effectively communicating , ideally you're not spending an exorbitant amount of time discussing it , right ? because then who's flying the airplane , right ? There's that accident . I can't remember what airline it was , but they had a , a landing light that was out like a heard the story .
Speaker 3Eastern , yeah something . And You know when , when the , when the gear goes down , the light turns green , when it's down and locked . And It turns out it was down and locked But the little light , the indicator light in the cockpit was not working And they didn't know whether or not it was down and locked . And so , like It was back in the time where there were flight engineers and all three people in the cockpit were focused on this one light , you go down and you check and you look at it and and I think they ended up it was they either ran out of gas Or it was a see fit , like they fully Crashed , and it was because they just spent time focusing on a light that literally was just a light . They were actually down and locked . And so it just goes to show you that the effective communication And and making sure that there is somebody always , you know , manning The actual flying of the plane is so important .
Speaker 4Yeah , managing the aircraft state for sure , yeah , absolutely . I mean , i see these errors creep in . I'm trying to . You know We have a limited scope in in the airplanes . I've flown the airplanes I fly in the geographical region , so there's some errors , of course , that don't , or threats that don't come in . You know We're not flying that much in the mountains . You know we're not going out of Mexico and flying in big mountains with the language barrier . Those things they just compound . And then you don't have a VNav , you don't have it set up correctly , and they give you a clearance , and then you're , you're always racing , and then all of these items You have to do it in the same period of time Just because now you have more jobs to do and it's just , it's just crazy how they compound like that . But , um , yeah , what I see the biggest one is is that you know the nav , the vertical , the vertical , descent planning Or just descent planning . It is what gets a lot of people .
Speaker 4It takes so much of their Mental energy the mental energy , yeah , whatever , yeah to make that happen . And it's like , dude , you weren't thinking about this 30 miles ago , you weren't thinking about this a hundred miles ago . It's simple equation . And Now you need to know what altitude you're kind of looking at . You know , and , and obviously the charts normally give you some guidance as To what an ideal altitude would be , but it just it still takes time for a new guy to start figuring these things out when you're used to flying around all the time At 3,000 feet , when you're at 30,000 feet , it's a big difference . So yeah .
Speaker 4I see those things creep in but I mean I Guess . Okay , I guess you notice I kind of jump to Descent stuff .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's fair , i mean , for the amount of time we spent taxing . I feel like we're at 30,000 feet very quickly , but that means fine .
Speaker 4Yeah , it seems to me training seems to be a bit king . The way
. The way I see automation is , it's supposed to be help , not a hindrance , and so something that that I commonly in . I was trying to I get . I tried to make this point earlier . I know it didn't land , but If you can fly the automation , you can fly the plane . That is when I get these new guys and they want to hand fly . They've been talking about flying , they just want to new line , new people Lee new people . Yeah , i'm sorry .
Speaker 2No , yeah , new flying right person , get that score up . Baby flying new flying Yeah , flying people flying persons people Persons yeah , flying persons Yeah , okay .
Speaker 4I think what when ? when they them get , when they them .
Speaker 2Well , okay , yeah .
Speaker 4They want to , you know , fly . They want to be hands-on The airplane . They don't want the autopilot flying it , they want to be flying it . They there's in , there's a multiple , because I've been there , you know , and most people graduating into these airplanes have this Probably similar thought process . They want to prove they can do it , that they're not an idiot . They have as an fo you have limited in instances to prove that you don't suck at everything .
Speaker 4And so you know you're not getting a lot of , you're not able to put in a lot of input on The release , fuel planning , this , that , the other thing . So when it is your turn to fly , it's your turn to fly right . So you want , you want to do it and show you can , i can be right on 250 knots . You , i can do a nice smooth level off all these things . You , you want to display all of those things . But what you don't , what you end up not doing , is you end up not mastering automation . And when you master automation And it can be done if it's done right by hand flying you got to be a little bit further ahead . But if you can master automation , just get that autopilot on and Then you are the one pressing the buttons up there instead of the next person . You have to see , you need to interpret , and then you need to do .
Speaker 2Yep .
Speaker 4And , and you know it's maybe a two , three step versus a two step or you know whatever . But I think it gets you much more tuned . If I will maintain , if you can fly the automation , you can fly the airplane . And it seems like Some of your research has indicated I Know I'm pulling it way down It has it indicated , made the point , it's intentional , it a 1000% is . It goes from G1000 for your GA . If , if you were to call that kind of the benchmark right , just something in the G series with a bunch of soft keys and all kinds of stuff , bunch of menus on your PFT , you go from that . When you go to transport category , it gets easier , it gets simpler . You don't have a bunch of soft keys . You may not have any buttons . You can press on that PFD bezel at all or MFD bezel at all . So you go from like the GA guy and all one trip through sporty's catalog tells you how obsessed people are with tech .
Speaker 1No , yeah .
Speaker 4We just want goofy shit in in something that I think might make my life easier . More thing put my flight bag to justify The leather flight bag I have .
Speaker 1I don't really know 16 kneeboards later that you don't use . That's right .
Speaker 4You got to find the right one , though , man .
Speaker 2There is no right . Every salvage plane I buy has a kneeboard in it .
Speaker 4Yeah , they do . Private pilots , GA guys are obsessed with tech and I don't know if has something to do with the type a personality Where they want to do this one thing better .
Speaker 2They want to copy no , I don't want to do anything . We just want for us .
Speaker 4They want the external look to be like I'm a per , i'm a professional . They want when they come into this big airport they have it looks all buttoned up , no matter how chaotic or what work They load they had to put into it to make it look that way . They want to be seamless from the outside .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 4I got the iPhone 8 , so I'm up to date on the phone , okay but the the when you go to , and there's also the cost of retrofitting to . Obviously you go get an airliner . It's not nearly as cheap to a reoutfit the whole fleet with the newest , if it's even legal to do . Look at the b52s though .
Speaker 2My god , how long are they gonna keep those things flying ?
Speaker 4I don't know what they did do on , but did they just re-retrofit ?
Speaker 2They put new engines on them and they plan on flying them through . Whatever year they're flying them , plan on flying them through , we'll put them over a hundred years of service .
Speaker 4Bring back those b17s right .
Speaker 2We got a few hundred years , 20 more years , that'd be like , yeah , that would be That they will be Older than bringing back the b17s right now when we retire them .
Speaker 4Fantastic yeah , yeah the Australians and the British wouldn't do that . No , no , Anyways .
Speaker 2So I triple seven is pretty good , though I'm I was kind of pissed about them Getting rid of the 747 , but the triple seven's not . it's a pretty good replacement . It's more efficient , it's not quite as big , but It's a nice . but it's a nice plane .
Speaker 4I don't know if I remember one on one .
Speaker 2Well , they've had them for a while but like the triple seven , nine is like what they're using to replace the okay .
Speaker 1Yeah so I mean it's left .
Speaker 4So I think about like the how Um .
Speaker 2Whatever , wow , wow , lee , just derailed , i just know , it's southern over here .
Speaker 1Yeah , using my , my thesis lingo , i just , i , just I feel like that's a , a hypothesis , that If you knew the equipment inside and out , it'd be less distracting , but you don't get trained typically in like worst-case scenario , which is where the accidents
happen .
Speaker 4We you know , in barbecue , to test this , the there's a chain of Errors that compound or a chain of events . There's no one single events that brings down a plane .
Speaker 1I understand that . I'm saying given any chain of events , you take a pilot you'll be better .
Speaker 4Who knows that ?
Speaker 1thing left and right you'll be , better . There's a pilot who knows it . 40 to 60 percent .
Speaker 4You'll be better the , the .
Speaker 1The distraction of that device is not going to be as high with the person who knows it inside .
Speaker 4So are you advocating Barb jump in anytime , but are you advocating more training , or more training on the operation of systems ?
Speaker 1more Training and understanding of the systems and particularly how all those menus work , what every button does , what every phase .
Speaker 4We don't have the buttons . Like I just said a little bit ago the well , you said buttons . Okay , don't ask me buttons .
Speaker 1You said I know what you mean no buttons .
Speaker 4How do you buttons you're describing ? you said buttons .
Speaker 1Okay , what does every ?
Speaker 3button I .
Speaker 4Don't know , you tell me , and then I will answer you .
Speaker 1I want someone to be able to navigate through . There's nothing that device like , not from the software FMS you talking PFT , mft ?
Speaker 4What are you talking about ? either one , okay , two totally different things . I'm talking buttons on an MFT .
Speaker 1You know how to do everything that machine is doing .
Speaker 4I don't know how to do anything .
Speaker 1Any of the airplanes I've flown no , no , i mean like there's no screen , that you don't know how to get to real quick , and just you know I need that .
Speaker 4I need to know what that , all that information it may tell me means , and you're you're acting . Nothing Catastrophic is probably gonna happen in the FMS .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 4So that's where most of the buttons are in most a lot of stuff .
Speaker 3Okay , so the other , the other beneficial to know About the systems and to understand how to navigate different screens and buttons or no buttons or whatever I mean . Obviously that's gonna be more helpful . I Don't think that's what we were arguing , right ?
Speaker 1I'm arguing Know your computer on it so well that you're never fiddling with it , trying to get it like It's never a problem to go do something with it , just like a steam game , a problem if you Yeah , just like a steam gauge , no problem .
Speaker 3You listen to the a new . You're a new pilot and you're listening to the aides or the a wasp or whatever , and you're . You need to Now adjust your altimeter , that's that . Your brain is off of flying because you're with that little colesman window .
Speaker 1I mean no matter what you're going to have to step out to To pay attention to that and I think turning that knob is different than figuring out which buttons you press on a G 1000 to get it's not go to that highlighter and then move it .
Speaker 3I don't think it is . I think it's the same thing . I think , regardless , it takes a second of your time to be like what do I have to do , what do I have to look at ? And then you're taking that second out and that second you could look back up and all of a sudden you're on taxiway whatever instead of taxiway whatever .
Speaker 1I just haven't been in a G1000 , so I know how to turn the knob .
Speaker 4I can't remember how to do it in the G1000 . So we should , we need to mitigate those issues and not be doing that on the taxi .
Speaker 3That is what the PC version of me would say Or when you're land whatever .
Speaker 4It should all be done prior to top of decent , just like with our briefing . That should already be set . We should already know what it's going to be . so we're not doing that . That is not . I mean , i'm sure the statistics probably bear out like oh yeah , that's when the issues happen , that's when accidents happen , that's when they lose their social awareness But and of course emergency did not happen right then . And so obviously statistics bear out things differently than what I have perceived them to be in actual practice . But I'm a small sample size .
Speaker 4The number of keystrokes , i think , do matter on the G1000 . Or I don't know what the example is exactly Like . if it's altimeter setting , i don't know what that takes in a G1000 . I would assume it's simple , but I don't know that . Obviously on a coltman window on an altimeter normal it's quick . everybody gets that . I'm assuming that's a largely intuitive on any of the advanced flight systems . I don't know . But when you get to more complex things , how many times do you in muscle memory click the wrong key and you have to backspace ? How many times do you click the wrong thing Because you're predicting , That's your problem .
Speaker 2you're typing .
Speaker 3That's a very good point You're predicting You make typos all the time .
Speaker 4Everybody does , everybody does On your phone .
Speaker 2That's fine .
Speaker 4No .
Speaker 2You're still typing using a computer .
Speaker 4You're living in the dark ages , you're going through motion so quickly .
Speaker 3ATC will just send you text messages .
Speaker 4these days They will , yeah , they'll send you text messages . Now Nobody types .
Speaker 2Yes , they do , even on your phone . You talk into it and type , you talk to try to write On the FMS .
Speaker 4On the .
Speaker 2FMS , I don't type anything . I talk into my computer and it types it all for me . Yeah .
Speaker 1I'm gonna try to write a program for school , Yeah .
Speaker 2TPT , i guarantee you could Right .
Speaker 1If you use Dragon and use Reverse curly bracket , space enter .
Speaker 2No , it knows all the symbols . You could just learn to say them and it would do it .
Speaker 1Whatever you wanted to do , i guarantee I can type fast and you can talk .
Speaker 2No , you can't .
Speaker 1You talk very slow .
Speaker 2I talk fast . I can talk very fast . I talk fast . He's got one , if I know what I want to say .
Speaker 1He's got it , i edit you for hours every week , right .
Speaker 2I know .
Speaker 1I can type faster than you talk on the show at least .
Speaker 2Okay , but if I'm entering in , that's a perfect example . If . I'm entering in Okay but if okay , I have a list of parts .
Speaker 1I have four sentences ahead of you right now .
Speaker 2Okay , okay , it's very easy to type for him , just so you know . Yeah , i guarantee you can not type fast and I can talk . It's not possible . Nobody can talk . Nobody can type as fast as somebody can talk For everyone who listens to the show , even like the fastest typers in the world cannot type as fast as you can talk .
Speaker 3Can I just I need . I noticed something Even when you were talking . you made a mistake and backtracked what you were saying . Nobody can talk , nobody can type as fast .
Speaker 2Right , but I'm reading it off of paper . I'm reading it off of something . I'm just saying the words . I already have the parts , the prices and anything that's wrong with it written down , So I'm just reading it as I want it to be written .
Speaker 3So you basically typed it already , and then you're rereading it .
Speaker 2It's from the shop . Exactly the time goes for the shop to the office . Why don't you just take a photo of ?
Speaker 1it and have chat GPT do it for you .
Speaker 2Because it's not quite there yet . There is no way that you could type enter in the information that I have to enter in using a mouse and keyboard as fast as I can do it verbally Not possible .
Speaker 3Exactly , which is why , if you're flying and ATC texts too , it's a very big problem .
Speaker 2Well , i'm just saying I would like it on a screen though , because then I could go back and read it .
Speaker 4Yeah , but you need to address it pretty much And that's a perception of ours that it needs to be an instantaneous adjustment in your flight path . Atc says something oh , i need to do it right now . And then you go into predictive text mode on your FMS and you start key stroking And it's like oh , i was on a different screen than I thought I was , so that key does something different this time . You understand where you are spatially with inside that system , but it doesn't mean that it doesn't take you extra time to get back expert . So , even though you know it intuitively , you may take yourself three pages away from where you wanna be .
Speaker 2This was the Oscars . Then they cut you off . Part two , barbara Sutton , we're wrapping it up .
Speaker 1I like thank you again . Andrew says just leave ATC on red Yeah , perfect advice . Notifications don't even just let it build up , barbara .
Speaker 3thank you again for coming on .
Speaker 1We're gonna wrap up this series going to the after chat here , the handful people in the chat . If you have any questions , do it in . I feel like there's enough . Argument still going on . Dan Freight , I'm a big fan of you . Argument still going on .
Speaker 2Dan Freight says I'm his favorite . Okay .
Speaker 3I'm his favorite .
Speaker 2No , he said I'm his favorite .
Speaker 4Well , we're gonna see you in a second , i'm sure he'll respond to that , Dan settle it right now . Dan said I'm his favorite . You don't have a chance .
Speaker 1As always , thanks for the barb You're doing you , tyler and Jared agreed to do the next episode , right ?
Speaker 4Yes , we did .
Speaker 2On your own . That's out of the free list . That's out of the free list . Okay , yeah , so we're gonna have a full guest episode . Yeah , yeah , cause you guys don't have time .
Speaker 1And Scott will listen to that one finally , you guys don't have time to do it . We have a lot of firsts , scott .
Speaker 4Yes , we have the first female guest and Scott's first episode you ever listened to Coming right up .
Speaker 2Wow , wait , i can listen to it .
Speaker 4Well , it'll be interesting , cause it'll be not the three of us , it'll be three new people .
Speaker 2I'm not at all that good .
Speaker 3Exactly Pilot ground takeover is what I'm calling it .
Speaker 2All right , dan said be soot So see .
Speaker 1Soot Yep , soot It's me , it's me Okay , thanks for listening , take care , see you guys , see you later Later .