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Women In Tech, With Crystal McFerran of The 20 & Andra Hedden of Marketopia

• Kaseya

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Dana Liedholm guests hosts for this conversation with Crystal McFerran of The 20 & Andra Hedden of Marketopia.

Dana,  Crystal, and Andra discuss women in tech, from their personal experiences, to how to grow one's network - to the mentorship of the upcoming women & men in the field.


Connect with Crystal:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystalmcferran/
Website: https://www.the20.com/

Connect with Andra:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andra-hedden-baaa4636/
Website: https://marketopia.com/

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the connecting it podcast. I'm your host, Dan Thomas Shefsky. And today we have got a special episode for you. So I'm going to introduce Dana lead home, senior vice president of corporate marketing here at Kaseya. And she's going to take over and introduce the women in tech panel. Uh, it's going to be a good episode for you. So Dana, I'm going to turn it over to you and, uh, let you lead today's podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thanks Dan. It's nice to be a guest host today on the connecting it podcast. I listen all the time and gosh, never thought I'd be a host, but I'm really honored to be here. And I'm so excited about this panel today. I have two of my personal friends as well as just really amazing colleagues in the channel. Um, we've got crystal McFerrin, who's the chief marketing officer for the 20 and we've got Andrew Hedin, who is the chief marketing officer and also co-owner of market Topia. So I'm so thrilled to have you ladies here today. Thanks for having us Dana. And I think it's really cool that we're doing this, um, since it is a national, uh, women's history month, is that what it is? Is that the title of it? I believe so. Yeah. So we thought it would be fun to do just a women's panel today and talk about sort of the challenges and opportunities that are available to women in tech and in the channel. Um, so I thought we'd just get right into it and appreciate that you are going to share with us your unique experiences, um, being a woman in tech and being a female executive. So I'll start with Andrew. I was going to ask you, um, as a female business owner, have you had any experiences that you think are unique to women and you know, what kind of advantages or disadvantages have you experienced? Sure. So I'm very excited to be here as well. There's nothing like a good conversation with friends, so I am happy to be here. And as far as experiences in the space and in this industry, I think my very first experience as, as a woman in this space would be that even thinking about coming into the tech space was an interesting experience for me. Um, at the time prior to even coming into this industry, I had been in marketing and advertising and business development and strategy in completely different industries. And when I fell into tech, it was interesting to me because I didn't consider myself an it person. I didn't really know or understand what was sexy or interesting about the technology industry. And, and I think that was really my first aha moment was really digging in a little bit and looking at an industry that I wouldn't have previously. And I don't know if it's because I, I, you know, I just never really had a, an an into the industry. I never really had a bunch of friends in it before. And when I first looked into it and really understood what it was all about, it was fascinating and wildly intriguing. And obviously I fell in love with it, and I've been in an ever since. And I think even since then, um, which is years ago at this point, it's, it's become

Speaker 3:

More and more women are flocking to the tech industry. Um, and I think that's wonderful. And I think that is the opportunity. There is a lot of opportunity when there's not that many, um, women at the time, you can bring your experience, you can bring your different skillset, um, and really add a ton of value to, to the space. So I think that's a huge opportunity being, um, one of, um, just a few women in a space. So I recommend it

Speaker 2:

To anyone. That's great. Crystal, I know you have, um, sort of a unique role where you work directly with a lot of MSPs who are members of the 20. Are you finding that a lot more women are going into, um, tech roles as opposed to the marketing kind of

Speaker 3:

The past has always been where we are. You don't. I wish that were the case. I see a few MSP owners who were women that we work with, but really, I mean, I, I would say that they are grossly underrepresented. I think the majority of MSP owners are male. Um, they're more coming about. And I agree with Andrew, I think that there has never been a better time to be a woman in technology, especially with people realizing like the impact of diversity and, um, just more women supporting each other and more men supporting women. And so I hope to see more come about, but the majority are still men.

Speaker 2:

Yep. Um, do either of you feel that there are any, uh, unique challenges or advantages being a woman in tech?

Speaker 4:

I think that there, I tend to look at the positive side of things in general. Um, I think that there are a ton of advantages, particularly in marketing and tech. So from my perspective, um, it's, it's interesting cause we're the fusion of, of the technology space and marketing. And so typically, uh, many times you see women in marketing roles, um, with high EQs, high creativity, um, you know, analytics and, and it's, it's interesting. There's a, there's a mix of, uh, men and women, obviously in marketing, but, but we're, we're, we're sitting, I posted about the other day, um, because our company is made up majority of women. So there's, you know, over 60% of, of Mark Topia is women. And, and I it's, it's not by design. We're not only trying to hire one or the other. It just is, that's just our makeup. Um, and I think it's wonderful because I do think that marketing is a great opportunity to, to get into the tech space as a woman. And, and you can be creative in, in this space and really find your way into, into technology and learning all about it without having to go deep on the technical side of that may not be, um, your natural skillset or something that maybe is even of interest to you. I think a great bridge into the tech space is marketing and, and I would say sales as well, if you're a great sales person, um, as a woman or you're a great marketer, I think those are both wonderful, um, ins to the tech space and, and marketing's not going anywhere, uh, sales and technology aren't either. So I think those are all safe bets. And then you find your way after that and figure what figure out what you do. Like I've known a lot of women who started off on either the marketing or the sales side, and then fell in love with the technology of it. And they're, you know, in product development or they are actually, you know, going into the engineering side of the house. So it's really, really interesting, but I would say, you know, start somewhere and you'll end up falling in love with it and finding your way and navigating through it.

Speaker 2:

Um, kind of leads into the next question. Do either of you have, you know, some really good tips. I know you're both really good at growing your network. So what would you suggest to both women and men for growing their network in this industry?

Speaker 3:

Um, I would say, be really proactive about it. It is so important to have a really good community and support system, whether you're male or female. Um, and so be proactive about it and, and think outside the box. I think that LinkedIn is great. It's awesome to connect with like-minded people on there. Um, but you know, make it human. I think so much of the outreach on there is really salesy. And so we're all kind of expecting to be sold to. And so I think, you know, as you find people that you want to connect to and learn from them, send them a personal message. Um, and also at networking events and, you know, as those open, back up trade shows and things, I think, um, women are so great at connecting with other people. Um, but there's this lack of confidence, um, and our industry. And so I think, um, just being confident to go out and establish those relationships and, you know, connect with as many people as possible. And that's how you build that support system.

Speaker 4:

I absolutely agree with that. I think LinkedIn is a wonderful tool to start that process. And in Facebook too, depending on the types of individuals that you're linked up with and how comfortable you feel sharing your personal life also with, with business individuals. And I do think that, you know, being, having a good self-awareness of what you're trying to accomplish and what you're really good at, and then taking that self-awareness and figuring out who you can lean on or learn from. Um, and, and I say that you can learn from people above, below to the side anywhere. Um, so, so really going out and sorting out, you know, what you want to know and finding the people that know it, or finding the people who are in the place that you want to be and, and reaching out. And, and you, you will find so often that individuals are so incredibly willing to share if they feel that it's coming from a genuine place. And if they feel that you are actually a good investment of time, they will be happy to share with you their journey, happy to share with you different, you know, associations that they're in or people that they know or connect you in some, some way or another. Um, so it's, it's, it's wonderful to build out that community and, and lean on it as you're growing in the space and it ends up being really beautiful.

Speaker 2:

That's great. Um, crystal, do you either mentor, or do you, uh, do you have a mentor?

Speaker 3:

Um, currently I do not have a mentor. I've had a number of mentors throughout my career who have been incredible and actually a couple them, I have never even met in person. These are individuals, you know, that I'm connected with through LinkedIn and just thought, wow. Um, this is someone that I can really learn a lot from. And so I had, you know, like a digital, you know, mentor of I've mentored a number of individuals throughout my career as well, because I feel it's so important. It goes both ways. It's like we should always seek to be improving, um, but also to be sharing and helping others. And so I do mentor a couple of women now, um, and I'm open to men or women. They just happen to be women, but, but I think mentoring is so incredibly important.

Speaker 2:

I do too. Um, how about you Andra? So I,

Speaker 3:

I feel the same. I think mentoring is, is amazing. And, and we, we do have programs actually here internally where we'll do internship programs or we'll bring in individuals that are, are wanting to be mentored. And right now actually, um, my, my university, um, has reached out because they've got a mentor program that they've just invited and wanted me to be a part of. That's really neat. It's, it's any individuals that are within the program. They can actually reach out to you and, and link up again, similar. It's not only Dan and others. They can see what you've done. They can see, you know, the, the industry that you're in and really where your knowledge base is. And then if they want to learn from you, you get paired up. So that's going to be an interesting one to be a part of which I'm excited about, but I've really been grateful, um, to a lot of mentors. I've had both men and women, and I think there are so many people that you can learn from, um, in the space. I've had many mentors, even through college. A lot of the internships that I had, I either worked for and amazing women in some cases, actually my very first job that I had in the university that was within the marketing realm. And I worked for a phenomenal woman who owned a business actually with her husband. Uh, and, and they, they owned a, um, a business in Tallahassee and they were, they were amazing. And I learned a lot of the work-life balance, um, from her actually, and in particular, Verna has made it known to a phenomenal business and they had a growing family and lots of children and, and it was just, and they did it all. So I think from each mentor, I learned different things where, depending on where I was in my stage of life. So I think that mentor really proved that it is possible. Um, and she taught me a lot about the ebbs and flows of how to balance family, life, work life, you know, a relationship as well as giving back to the community. Um, and then others within, within a corporate world, you learn a lot of different things. So, um, navigating politics and navigating, um, just corporations in general, there's so many different facets, um, that that's always wonderful to learn both from women and men. Um, and then you've got your, your personal life mentors as well. So, so now I think mentors are huge. Um, and, and I like virtual mentors is what I call them crystal. Okay. So virtual mentors, I had the same thing, digital mentors. There's so many now with, with the way that social is structured, you can follow and learn from other people's lives. Granted you're only getting a percentage of it, you're getting a small percent. Um, but, but you can still learn so much from their experiences, particularly the ones that are very authentic and real and share the good, the bad, the ugly, the, you know, the celebrations and, and the, the, the pitfalls. Um, but, but it's, there's so much information to SOCAP out there that absolutely there's tons of mentors that can be found if you're looking

Speaker 2:

Great. I have the same experience. I've had, um, two really strong male mentors who were executives in the tech industry and really helped me, like you said, kind of navigate the more political side of things and, you know, thicken up your skin a little bit. Um, and then I've had female mentors who kind of helped me with the softer side of things with maybe, you know, how to, you know, manage the work-life balance, which is always a challenge. You know, I had young children when I was coming up and in my early career in tech, and that was really hard for me, but just encouraging. And so I do try to, you know, give back the same thing and I, I find it kind of to your point, Andrew, that being really honest and Frank and, you know, straight forward kind of talking as to my mentees, as I would to my own children, um, that sort of straight forward is really what people need. Um, and so I feel like it's a responsibility to us as we, you know, as we get higher up in the, in the echelons, um, you know, it's our responsibility to pull others up with us. I'm really excited that I can say we now have two females on the executive team. Um, recently Alexander let's, uh, joined the executive team. She's our general counsel. So we actually have two female executives on the website. Now I'm really proud of that. Like, you know, our percentages are, I know it's not happening everywhere. Um, I would love to see more as, as we were talking about crystal more women owned MSPs, but I do see a lot more women going into the sciences, you know, into, um, account management or the, you know, the technical side of things. Um, not just sales, I'm really excited to see that trend at Kaseya for sure.

Speaker 3:

Sure. Definitely. I think we're seeing the same thing here at the 20, our leadership team is about almost 50 50 right now. Um, and it has only brought about good things having, you know, that balance of men and women on the team. I think that when it brings such a unique perspective, um, and it's been great for the company financially as well.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. So I, here's a question for both of you. What advice would you give your younger self coming up in this industry?

Speaker 3:

Um, I would say don't be held back by stereotypes of you're passionate about something and you know, that you can do it and you'll be good at it and just go for it. I think that, um, imposter syndrome, especially for women, you know, is such a real thing that, um, a lot of times competence and competence match, I think that women tend to be over-prepared and under-confident and, um, so just believe in yourself and go for it and create those opportunities. Be proactive.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. That's, for me, it's like, almost like, um, you're only limited to limited by your own beliefs. Um, if I could go back because I've always had other people telling me you can do it, you can do it when I'm the one who's feeling like maybe I can't, or I'm afraid that I won't succeed. And, you know, maybe don't take that step because I was afraid I might fail. And I'm getting better at that as I get older. How about you, Andrew?

Speaker 3:

It's interesting. I mean, I love, I love both of, I love both of those. I think, I think whether it's my younger self or whether it is anyone coming into a space, um, I think my younger self, I, I probably would have said, um, I don't know. It's interesting. I, I try to give myself advice along the way, follow it. Um, so, so, and I try to live by no regrets. So it's hard to say, what would I have done differently or told myself, but I think maybe I'll phrase it like this. I think the things that I

Speaker 4:

Really would encourage anyone to, to think about in any stage of their life, whether they're younger or older, um, one is, is it's never too late. So if you want to change an industry, if you want to jump into a different industry, if you've got a passion, that's kind of an aching at you that you're wondering about, um, it's never too late. So take the jump. There's nothing to be scared of. Worst case scenario is it doesn't work out and then you do something different. Um, so, so it's all about learning and growing. And so, and the other was, is really, you know, anything is possible. And, and I think that pairs really nicely with what you share Dana, is that it, you have to believe it first. And, and if you believe it, it's just like selling anything. If you believe it, and you're passionate about it, you will be able to sell anyone else on it because they will believe in your passion. They'll believe in your skillset. They'll know that, that there's something there and they'll believe that you're capable of doing it too. And so I think just kind of digging deep and being really comfortable with, with who you are, what you have to offer and knowing that it's, it's worth it. And, and that, that you can do genuinely anything you put your mind to. Um, I think that that is so powerful and it comes back to that confidence. You were mentioning crystal it's it's if I think anyone, girl, guy, anyone, if you can sort out that confidence and roll around in it and feel really good about it and genuinely know who you are and what you have to offer, like the sky's the limit. And I think that, that, that is so powerful if harnessed as an industry.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And for me, I think even flipping it and saying, you know, use that fear, like instead of being, you know, stopped by the fear, look at that everything I've ever accomplished in my life, if I've done it, pushing through that fear, it means a little bit more it's a little bit more precious, you know? So if you can kind of know that ahead of time and say, okay, there's some fear associated with this. That means there's a diamond on the other side of it. So yeah. Trying to remember that, and that's something I try to pass on to those, those who I'm mentoring. Um, anything else that you guys want to chat about? What's next for you?

Speaker 4:

One thing I'll mention when you were just talking about the mentoring, I think you said this a little bit earlier, and I think it's, it's, it's something worth stressing the emotion in business. So, so I think, I think it's wonderful to be emotional. It's wonderful to have feelings. It's wonderful to do all those things. Um, but I think sometimes women are overlooked in, in situations and scenarios because of, um, emotional, uh, feels. And, and I say that in a sense that that you'd mentioned, you know, a mentor helping you get your skin thicker and, and all of that. Um, I always try to think about it like it's business and, and if you can be logical and it's not emotional, and if you can almost take yourself out of it, like, it's not about you as a person, it's about what you're trying to accomplish as a team, as a company, and everyone has their role, and everyone has the things that they're trying to do. Oftentimes I I've seen it. I've and, and it's, it's, it's again, it's women and men, but, but if you can stop being so personal about everything and look at it more objectively, that really helps anyone get further in business because it's, it's really not about an individual. It's not something personal. It's not, you know, if someone does something wrong or if you're trying to accomplish something or solve for something, it's about how you get there. And, and it's, it's, it's, it's much about finding the solution and not, not dwelling in, or having, you know, emotional feels about something that's already passed and just keep moving on. And I think that will really help a lot of individuals not get held back, um, and just be able to kind of plug forward and, and have that thicker skin, but really be looking at the bigger picture versus just yourself. And I think that individuals can get so caught up in their own emotions and their own feels about things that it can really hold them back from progressing in organizations. I agree. I've had, um, you know, times where I I'm, I'm trying to steel myself to my feelings and, you know, maybe I am taking something personally and I refuse to cry in this meeting, even though I feel like I'm going to, and I think I'm kind of getting to that point where it might, my skin is thick enough that most things don't get me to that point. I do get to that point. I kind of accept the fact that I'm human and I'm allowed to have feelings and I'm allowed to see them because we all are, you know, and if we make it okay for other people to have their feelings and feel their feelings, um, then that's just a safer place for everybody. Absolutely. Well, um, if anybody has anything else, they want to talk about, bring it on up. Otherwise I think we can wrap it up here. All right. Great. Well, thanks for joining me on the connecting it podcast. Dan, do you want to close this out?

Speaker 1:

Oh, this is a great episode. Thanks everybody. Thank you for having us dinner. Enjoyed it. Thanks Dana. And thanks everybody for joining us today on the connecting it podcast. This was a great episode, Dana and team, you know, awesome. And we will talk to you all next week.