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Navigating Harsh Environments, With Ben Saunders - Polar Explorer

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This week Dan Tomaszewski has a conversation with Ben Saunders - Polar Explorer and speaker at GlueX on May 4th.

Dan and Ben talk about how to stay motivated, how to distribute your energy to achieve and maintain success, and how to get out of your own head. This episode is an adventure - so make sure to listen!

Connect with Ben:
Website: https://bensaunders.com/
Twitter: @polarben
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-saunders-polar/
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Sign up for GlueX: https://www.gluex.co/

Speaker 1:

Hello, I'm Dan Thomas Shefsky and this is the connecting it podcast.

Speaker 2:

[inaudible]

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the connecting it podcast. I'm your host, Dan Thomas Shefsky. And with me today, we have a special guest I'm here with Ben Saunders. Who's going to be chatting with us about motivation and the value of mental preparation. Ben is also one of the speakers at it. Glues virtual Glu X event on May 4th through the fifth. Um, you can check out and get more info on glue x@gluex.co Ben. Really excited to have you today. I've been reading about you and kind of looking at your bio. Uh, this is going to be a fun conversation with you today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, Dan. It's great to be here. So,

Speaker 1:

You know, I, I really want to, can you just do a quick little intro of yourself? I know people are going to hear about you at Glu X, but what's that, that short version about yourself that, uh, we can get to know you?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, gosh, I struggle with the short version. I'm usually introduced as a polar Explorer, which, which is a ludicrous job title. Uh, not a job that my careers advisor at school ever mentioned as an option, um, because there are only two poles to explore and that were both found century ago. So I've spent 20 years leading polar expeditions. So I've covered, uh, I think about 400,000 miles now on foot, either in the Arctic or Antarctica. Oh, that's amazing.

Speaker 1:

And I think we're going to dive into that a little bit and that's one of my first questions I have for you, uh, is talking a little bit about this is you've tracked through some dangerous climates in complete isolation though. Our MSP listeners are not in complete isolation. They may be running a small business on their own or dealing with a smaller support system due to the pandemic. What advice do you have for these small business owners looking to stay?

Speaker 3:

Hmm, gosh. Yeah. Good question. I mean, in a weird way, you know, I remember being a teenager thinking, Oh, I'm never going to be a businessman. I want to be an adventure and explore it, you know, and looking back on two decades of doing what I do, I've been running a business the whole time. These projects are pretty complex operations. Yeah. There's a big team in the background. Um, obviously kind of partners, suppliers, logistics, all of this stuff to organize. And the whole thing is reliant on, on commercial sponsorships. So looking back, you know, it's no exaggeration to say that some of the biggest challenges I've had to face have been sales or HR, I can, it's, it's a bit, it's, it's a very weird business, but it's still a business in a strange way. I I've done this professionally for 20 years. So I think, I think what's relevant here is, is that, um, these expeditions inevitably involve me trying to achieve something. I'm trying to some usually quite challenging goal in an environment, uh, climate, uh, that is pretty hostile, um, where most of the crucial variables when it comes to my success are completely outside my control. Um, for me, it's, it's normally the environment, it's the weather. It's, it's the, the wind, the temperature, yeah. The wind direction, wind speed, visibility, the snow and ice conditions, all of those things, um, that, you know, the, the terrain that I'm trying to move through, um, I can't control any of those. And in a strange way, these expeditions are almost an exercise in efficiency. It's an equation, you know, sort of calories of energy versus distance versus time. Um, and you have to become very, um, aware and very deliberate of how you are using your energy, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally. And I learned very quickly that investing energy, um, expanding energy on things that I can't change was not only a waste of that energy, but, but going to, um, uh, you know, impede my chance of success. So, um, for me, you know, getting frustrated at the headwinds or getting, um, anxious or worried or angry about the visibility or the, or the temperature yeah. That that's a waste of energy. So I think that, I guess that the kind of Maxim here, the sort of catch phrase would be control the controllables. Um, I think, you know, most businesses right now, it is a it's, it's a, it's a pretty weird time. Like it's so hard to predict how so many things are going to look even even a few months out from now. Um, so in a way we're all trying to operate, trying to get things done in an environment that, that feels pretty challenging for most people and is unpredictable. And we can't control these big variables. We've all been at the mercy of this kind of global pandemic. We, we can't do anything about that individually. Um, uh, we w we can't change that we can behave responsibly, but we can't change what's happening. So, um, and also so many of us working from home, so many of us, you know, physically isolated in a way that, um, that is, is completely new. And most of us sat in front of a screen and the whole day, your, your screen and your insect patient will happily give you an infinitely scrolling feed of stuff that will make you anxious and angry and upset to whatever stress and, and most of those things you can't change. So, yeah, B I think the message, my message is kind of be, try, be aware, try and be deliberate, try be focused in, in, uh, where and how you apply your own energy, um, physically, mentally, emotionally.

Speaker 1:

No, I mean, that's, that's really good advice. Um, you know, and it's, it's interesting to hear you talk about it, and then it's like, you're thinking about it, you're out doing the, you know, trekking through and doing this expedition type thing and how you relate that back to business and how it's the same, don't waste your, your, your mental space on the things that you shouldn't be worrying about. Don't, you know, go down that path, go around and control what you can control and get that done. I think that's some really good advice.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think it holds true know it's it's, you know, what are you focusing on? Is it something you can change? Is it something you can do better? If not, you know, you're wasting your energy kind of be, be more deliberate in your focus.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that. Be more deliberate in your focus. I need to, I'm writing that one down.

Speaker 3:

I think actually another, another thing, um, that's probably worth sharing is, um, for me, you know, I've done a number of expeditions completely on my own. Um, I've skied solo to the North and South pole. So I spent weeks and weeks. Your North pole was 72 days on my own. Um, I saw no other human beings for 72 days, 10 weeks. Uh, and the, the weird paradox is that when I'm on a solo expedition, I'm in a sense, more reliant on my team, like my back office essentially than ever before. And yet they're a team that I'm thousands of miles away from them physically, and I'm severely limited. Um, there's one satellite phone network that covers the polar regions. Um, it's, it's okay. If a voice call is terrible for data. So, so I'm, I'm pretty cut off in, in, in, in, in almost every sense of the word and, um, what things I've had to learn as well as the importance of, um, communicating with your team. Um, being able to communicate accurately, honestly, openly, especially when you're, when you're trying to operate in isolation or relative isolation. Um, I did a huge project and I talked to her 2013, 2014. So there were two of us on that expedition sharing, a tent, 108 nights in a tent that was good, good training for lockdown here in the UK. Um, and we had a team of 12 in the background. So 12 people would sort of mission control, and we worked with a really good psychologist before we, before we started this journey just to try and really maximize our chances of success and try and work out a strategy for, for, for, you know, getting on as best we could as a tiny team of two, but also in how we dealt with this, this, this bigger support team. And, um, as, as an analogy, you know, we both my teammate and I both understood that when it came to our, our gear, our clothing, our equipment, if something wasn't quite right, if there was a little tear in the fabric of our tent or a zipper wasn't working properly, or your seam was coming on, stitched in it in a jacket, if we ignored it, if we thought, Oh, I can't be bothered, I'll fix it tomorrow. I'll deal with it next week. It'll it'll last until the end of the trip, it'll be fine. Invariably small things would, would, would unravel very quickly and under that much pressure in that, in that sort of operating environment. So, um, so we had to fix stuff straight away and the same, we had to apply the same thinking to our relationship, like as a team, if something wasn't working, if there was some sort of irritation, some unspoken kind of friction point between us, something holding us back, we had to be able to talk about it to table it straightaway and try and fix it, which, you know, for two, for two Englishman in a, in a tent was, you know, easier in theory that it wasn't practiced sometimes. And, um, you know, when your teammates sounding critical and, and, you know, you're exhausted, you've been dragging central 10 hours, it's minus 40 outside. Um, it takes a lot of, self-control not to not to, you know, start a fight in, in that tense. And I think also, I think also, yeah, people perhaps assume that, that what I do and the story I tell is, is all about grit and just like stubborn determination and pushing through the pain and, you know, kind of getting on with it. And, and the, my my message might be like, work harder. You know, you could do more. And actually the, I think one of the hardest things I've had to do, one of the bravest things I've had to do is to be willing and able to ask for help when I need it. Um, but you know, a self-styled tough guy at Explorer with a beard who holds multiple world records. Like that's, that's challenging, you know, I'm trying to just disconnect my ego. Sometimes

Speaker 1:

You kind of, you said some things that I think I related it. I mean, I'm sorry, I'm going technical MSP managed service providers that are listening, you know, you said, Hey, look, you know, if a zipper's not working or if there's something like stitching, that's coming out or a little hole in the tent, I'm relating that back to what managed service providers do to their customers. They're out there saying, Hey, look, this machine unpatched, while it might seem small to you under the workload of the big environment, it could be the cause for a cyber attack or it could be, you know, so it's really, I'm taking what you're saying and relating it back to our listeners and like what they're seeing. And I think it's good advice. And you, you also mentioned the communication piece, um, and you know, how, you know, maybe the customer doesn't always want to hear that, but you got to go and have a good conversation with them and talk about those, those zippers that aren't working, maybe it's the computer or whatever, because that could lead to a bigger situation and you need to make sure you're addressing it.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

I want to go in, can you start to talk a little bit about this, you know, in terms of like mindset stuff. So while tracking, I'm sure there was times that like worst case scenarios crept into the back of your mind, how do you overcome these doubts, but then like flipping it again here. How do you think an MSP owner can use that same mindset for their own business, especially in the light of the growing number of cyber attacks that are devastating to small businesses and the fear that, you know, I think about an MSP, they, they worry because they're in control of all of their customers and we're, they're pretty critical to them. And if something happens that they've done wrong or a cyber attack, it's just that stress and that mindset, you know, we'd love to hear how your, you know, you can help overcome those challenging mindsets that you faced. And maybe if some best practices we can put into place as well.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. When I, when I think about mindset, I think one of the, um, for me, one of the crucial ingredients in, in the, the success that I've had in my, in my spectacularly narrow niche fields, um, has, has been self-belief. And I, I don't mean, I wish I could find a better term for that. Cause it sounds a bit like, um, arrogance or ego or, you know, conceit. I do not mean those things, but I mean, the, the belief in your own capacity to, to kind of make things happen, you're in a sense of agency, but individually, collectively as a, as a business. And my, my, my theory is that self belief is this kind of human quality that we all have. It's like a muscle. Like we all have it to some degree or another, just through sheer luck or genetics or whatever. Like some people will have more than others, but we'll have it. Um, and crucially, it responds to stimulus in the same way. Like you can make it stronger. And I think the stimulus, certainly my experience system as it responds to is not necessarily successful failure, but it's endeavor is the willingness to try. And I think a lot of individuals and a lot of organizations and businesses perhaps make the mistake of thinking like I, or we should not act until we are more confident. And, um, certainly my life, like confidence only ever follows courage. You know, as a, as an example, you can't, uh, you can't learn to swim by reading a book about swimming. Like at some point you, you have to act without certain certainty. You have to kind of take that first step. And I think when you're running a business in, in such a fast paced, fast changing, you know, challenging environment, I think you have to be willing to, um, to kind of stay on the front foot, you know, to keep innovating, to keep taking risks in a way. Now I am not talking about recklessness, you know, far from it. I I'm convinced I've spent more time in the last 20 years in Excel spreadsheets, you know, planning that I have actually on skis, that there's a huge amount of very unglamorous preparation training, contingency planning, a lot of work that goes into each of these projects. And, um, and again, I think people might mistakenly assume I'm a kind of adrenaline junkie thrill seeking adventure, which is, which is not the case. There's not much thrill. These are, these are long slow tests of endurance in many ways. Yes. There's probably a reason that, that I like red bull have haven't sponsored me with a, with a GoPro in my head because it would be really boring. I'm doing like one and a half miles an hour across this like blank kind of ice sheet for, for weeks and weeks. Um, but for me, that ability to, to, to act without certainty is, is, is key. Um, and the willingness, you know, individually and as businesses to kind of push yourself outside your comfort zone, um, because like, like a muscle in the reverse is true. If you don't, if your self belief isn't tested and stretched and challenged, then it kind of atrophies. It's like, uh, you know, if you spent a while they sat down on an excise, then your hamstrings get kind of atrophied and weaker and Titus, same as same as yourself leave. So, um, yeah, so that's, yeah, that's, that's one thought. Um, I'm trying, what else about dealing with, with doubt? Um, I mean, again, I talked about, uh, the ability to, to, to, yeah, to communicate honestly, with my team and to, um, be willing to, to rely on my team and to trust them, and also to think of my broader support team, like to, to really be willing to, again, like disconnect my ego and surround myself by people that have better knowledge than me in, in, in the, in the different pieces of this jigsaw puzzle that make, that bring these huge projects together. So I think that's vital, um, being able to trust your, your team. Um, and, uh, I think it was, I talked about focus. I talked about controlling the controllables, so I guess kind of breadth of focus, but for me sometimes the, uh, what would you call it? Depth of focus is, is, is important as well. And there are days certainly early, yeah. On, on most of these big expeditions when the, the ultimate goal, rather than being a source of motivation, it can almost be the opposite. It can feel overwhelming. It can feel such a huge challenge. And, you know, day one in Antarctica, October, 2013, we, we, we were trying to walk 1800 miles. We were dragging sleds sledges that were 440 pounds each at the star, two of us. So I think day two, we covered about two and a half miles in a, in a day in like eight hours of dragging these sledges. So at that point, like the go 1800 miles was not motivating. It, it felt hopeless. It felt completely out of reach. So I had to learn to kind of shorten my focus to the next milestone to say, I almost, I don't know if I'd advise this as a tactic, but like internally I almost gave myself permission to quit. I kind of removed the pressure of the goal. I'd say, you know, that bit of ice on the horizon looks really good. Like it's clearly, like, we're, I'm out of my depth. I'm really struggling here as, as the leader of this thing. I'm, you know, just feeling overwhelmed, but tell you what, let's just get to that bit of advice. You know, it's going to be two hours away that, that sort of snow field on the horizon that you could land an aircraft there. Like we could totally quit that. Say we could camp for a night, wait for an airplane to come pick us up and then we'll, we can give up, you know, so for the next hour, two hours, whatever, like all of my energy went into getting to that point. And then we get there and I'd think, Oh, we haven't collapsed. Like, Oh, maybe that bit of ice on the horizon looks a bit better. I actually, Oh, yes. That's, that's, uh, that's way better. Like, let's just go there and then we'll decide, and then you've done another day and then you've done another week and sudden you've done a hundred miles, 500 miles and it starts to feel manageable. So, so the ability to kind of break down really complex challenges into like, okay, what is the next action we need to take care of? And let's do it. Like, that's, that's crucial.

Speaker 1:

I'm sitting here just listening and it's just wan it sounds exhausting. Like it just like hearing, but it sounds amazing like in just like this, like, I know you said it just sometimes like flat land ice or snow, like, you know, but it just the adventure and just the pushing the determination. And the one thing I, I I've, I've heard you say a lot is ego. And I think it's really, uh, it's really important is just checking your ego out, like letting your team be, you know, find people and surround yourself with people that are good people that know their, their area, and that can help you run your business. And, uh, I definitely think that's really good advice for, for the owners or for anybody in business is just check your ego and allow people on your team. You know, I always say hire people that are smarter than me to do the different tasks because we can work together as a team and overcome the big, the big challenge. Um, so

Speaker 3:

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Got it. Got it. And one day it's vital and that's been a huge lesson for me and also in a way, a bit of a challenge, cause I'm known for, you know, for these big solo expeditions, but solo is a complete misnomer. There's, there's always a huge team in the background.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no. So I want to talk to you a little bit more. I have one other question because this is, again, a little bit of a teaser. We're setting people up cause at glue X, you're going to, you're going to have a whole different talk and be able to go more. And I think people are, are hearing some of your stories and I think they're gonna want to continue to hear more. You mentioned, uh, in the previous talk training for like the long polar expeditions, uh, is mental as well as physical. What can our listeners do to train themselves mentally for challenges they may face in the future?

Speaker 3:

Oh, wow. Yeah. Good question. Um, I think, Hmm. I'm trying to give a good example. Um, I think for me, like again, the ability to kind of take these, these really big complex goals, challenges, missions, you know, and, and actually break them down into actionable next steps. Like that's that's so, so, um, crucial, um, for anyone, any business, any person trying to do something pioneering, like just breaking it down? Um, there is, uh, I, I I'll mentioned that there's a, it's, it's a very, um, uh, sexy sounding book. It's called getting things done by a guy called David Allen. I actually met him years ago when it came out. Um, I don't adhere like religiously to his system, but it makes me makes a lot of sense. And he takes what a lot of people might see as a, as a to-do list and, and breaks it down into two things. So pro he calls them projects and next actions. So project for me might be, um, you know, fly to answer, get to the start point of this expedition. And the next action might be to make a particular phone call or write an email or to research something. So that, that's the way I've, I've done things for many years now. And I think having a, a system that you, that you trust and that works for you is, and for your team for your business is really important, but the more you can get stuff out of your head into, into a system, um, the better you're gonna fall, like your brain isn't ready for storing things. It's for kind of thinking of things and coming to ideas and, you know, and the more lists and the more stuff that you can get out of your head into a system, um, the more you're freed up to, uh, yeah, to, to innovate

Speaker 1:

Really good information. I thanks for giving us the book recommendation too. I always say on this podcast, bringing lots of different guests, it's cool to see people's different books that inspire them and working on, and I love that idea project and next action. What is it? How can we go forward? So, um, really good advice. So I know you're coming up here in may. Uh, you're you're going to be talking at the, the glue X, our virtual glue X event. Um, is there any, you know, we're at the end here, I just want to say, is there anything you want to leave our listeners with or anything that you want to last inspiring thought before they see a glue X O

Speaker 3:

Well, I, I thought of two things. Uh, one, one quite profound, one the opposite. Um, well, what is a it's, it's a question that I almost always get asked, whether I'm talking to, uh, like young school kids or to boards of directors of some of the biggest company, but it's like, how do you go to the bathroom at negative 45 degrees Fahrenheit? So I'm not gonna answer that right now, but I, I may, if I have time come with a glue X and then the second, the second slightly more profound point to finish on a high note is for me, for me, I've been thinking a lot recently about, about the word success and what that looks like to me. And I think I used to see success as achieving your goal. I used to see success as a, a finish line in the future. You know, if I kind of worked hard enough one day, I'd get there, I'd cross it. And things would be awesome. And I've, I've achieved a few massive goals in my life. And strangely when I got there, my life didn't immediately get more awesome. In fact, sometimes it got worse because the, the, the goal, the thing that had been giving me all this energy, all of this drive, all this work ethic often for years, as soon as I achieved it, it evaporated and there was nothing there to replace it. Now, this might sound like sort of strangely deemed motivational, but I think that the message here is twofold. Firstly, in business, there is no finish line. You're not trying to get to a where everything's stops. Like that's not the goal. So that was a, that was a, a lesson. It took me a very long, very difficult walk, uh, in a very cold place to, to find out myself. And I think, you know, success to me now looks something like, um, continuing to strive, well, you know, continuing to evolve, continue to get better at what you do. So, yeah, hopefully that's a good note to end on really, really looking forward to, to glue X.

Speaker 1:

So am I, and Ben, you know, just listening today, I didn't want to go in, there are so many times I was like, Oh, I want to ask them that. Or, or I want to ask that about your, you know, your expeditions and things, and I'm waiting for glue X cause I want to listen in as well. So thank you for coming in and sharing, you know, the words of wisdom on that ending with the success, because I think that's something, uh, it's, it's something I personally just listened to and I was like, that's a really good point. And, uh, I'm sure you're going to share some more and I can't wait to see how do you go to the bathroom when it's negative 45 degrees? It's a question that's running in all of our heads now, and we're going to have to wait until May 4th to see what happens. So yeah.

Speaker 3:

Thank you dad. I said one more thing I might leave you with, which only because somebody suggested this yesterday and it blew my mind. So I was, I've been trying to think for a while now, too, to just to explain particularly Antarctica, the scale of that place is, is just mindblowing. And it's so hard to, to explain to people that have not been there, you know exactly how massive it is. So I'll try to work out a couple of years ago. Like, well, how much ice is there in Antarctica? What we think, we think roughly 2.6 million gigatons of ice. I was like, okay, well, what the heck is a gigaton? So I kind of Googled. It was like, okay, how many human beings on the planet right now? You know, X, X, billion. What if we divide up the amount of ice by the amount of people, you know, how much ice in Antalya, freshwater, Bleasdale ice, how much ice do we have each every human? Is it a couple of ounces? Like, what's the, what's the answer? So the answer is 3 million tons of ice for every human being alive right now. So I was saying for a long time that I'm an expert, but I still, I still don't know what 3 million tons of ice that like, anyway, I mentioned this yesterday and somebody in like a zoom chat, he was like, he replied 10 minutes later saying 3 million tons is 10 aircraft carriers. So I'm now I'm now using that in my mind. There's like how much we, every human being has the equivalent of 10 aircraft carriers of ice in Antarctica. So there's a, there's a little fact, um, to, you know, it certainly blew my mind when I thought

Speaker 1:

That's, that's amazing. That blew my mind too. I mean, 10, 10 aircraft carriers of ice. That's a lot of ice. Ben, thank you very much for being with me today. If you liked what you heard today from Ben, he's going to be speaking at this year's virtual glue X event. On May 4th, you can find more info on glue ex.co Ben look forward to seeing you at glue ax. Thank you again for being on the podcast and sharing your, your journey and your, your story. I'm looking forward to it and to all our listeners. Thanks for listening and have a great day.