From Swingers To Femdom Cuckolding

Swinging was the doorway to a female-led cuckolding marriage where her pleasure is the plan and his role is to watch, serve, and surrender. J and AJ join Venus to share how their marriage evolves from soft swapping swingers into femdom cuckolding, including the moment they realize fairness isn’t the point and that his desire is genuinely centered on her.

Find them on Reddit: 

AJ - u/First-Philosopher-51

J - u/Mrsdclo

Pillow Talk with Venus July 17th - RSVP at https://www.venuscuckoldress.com/events

❤️Venus Connections❤️ - Matchmaking for loving cuckolding relationships and female-led relationships. Learn more at https://www.venusconnections.com/

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Transcript

Welcome, World Cup, And Updates

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is the Venus Cuckolders Podcast, a place to learn all things cuckolding for the curious, for the passionate, and for the sexually empowered woman who wants it all.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Venus. Thanks for joining me today. I have heard from many couples over the years who have started with swinging and then kind of like dabbled in hot wiping and evolved into cuckolding. And today's story is similar to that. I have Jay and AJ are there gonna join me and talk about their story about how they started in a similar way in the swingers kind of lifestyle and how they gradually made it all the way to evolving into more femdom and female-led relationship with cuckolding. So it's a great story. I think you're gonna really enjoy it. But first, I want to talk a little bit about the World Cup. Because, like I mentioned on the last episode, I'm a huge soccer fan, football, whatever you want to call it, depending on where you are. And I this whole World Cup has been so fucking exciting for me. I've been watching so much of it, and I'm just loving it. It is super, super fun. But I was able to go to a World Cup match, which was such a bucket list thing for me. And so I went to go see the Canada-Switzerland game in Vancouver. And holy fuck, let me just tell you guys, it was so fun. Like I had the time of my life. It was so memorable, probably the highlight of my whole year. And it was just incredible. So many memories. It was way too quick. It went over, it went by so quick, but like it was fucking amazing. So if you have a chance to go to a game, go. It is well worth it. Also, I celebrated a birthday recently, and I just want to give a big shout out to Ben who paid for a spa day for me for my birthday. And that was like really lovely. I absolutely loved it, went for a really nice massage, and he bought that off of my wish list. So thank you, Ben, for doing that. That was really sweet, and I appreciate it a lot. If um, I do have a wish list, it's on my website, VenusCucklegis.com, on the front page. If anybody wants to purchase something for me, you can there. You certainly don't have to. I created that wish list because I had people asking me all the time if I had one. So I was like, all right, fine, I will create one. And so thank you, Ben. Appreciate that a lot. You made my birthday really special. Uh, also wanted to say a big thank you to those of you who have uh made a rating and review on either Spotify or uh Apple Podcasts. I read them and I saw the last few and they were really, really lovely. So thank you to those of you who posted a nice review and rating on there. I appreciate that because for a little while there I was having a bunch of fucking trolls and shit that were just a real pain in the ass. So thank you so much for doing that. And for anybody else, if you want to make a rating and review, uh if you enjoy the show, please do that. I appreciate it. All right, I just have one announcement that's coming up, actually. It's a pillow talk episode or pillow talk chat, live chat that I'm gonna be doing live in the Queen's Quarters community. And joining me will be Emma and Ken. They recently uh were on the show and people loved their story. It was super fun. If you want to catch that live chat with the three of us, that's going to be July 17th at 1:30 Pacific time. That's 4:30 Eastern time. It's free to join live if you want to go to VenusCuckledris.com or check the show notes for today, and I'll put a little link there where you can RSVP for that event. All right, that's it for announcements. Let's jump into the show today with Jay and AJ.

Jay And AJ’s Kinky Origin Story

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Here we go. Welcome to the show, you guys. I have a really great couple who's joining me, and we're gonna talk about their relationship. Jay and AJ, welcome to the show. Say hello to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Hello, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Hello. It's so good to have you guys here. I love interviewing couples. It's always fun because every single couple that I've spoken to over the last decade plus of learning about cuckolding has been unique and different. And I was just talking about this earlier today, about how I like love and appreciate that so much. So I'm so curious to learn about your dynamic, your how you guys arrived where you are today, and what it's all what's been it's been like for you. Um, so you guys have been together for 13 years, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Okay. Are you married or no?

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yes. Going on, married for going on six years.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Okay. Um, and then I understand that you guys started out swinging, but like, how did that happen? Were you vanilla monogamous when you first met, or was this something that you were kind of like already dipping your toes into non-monogamy before that?

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Um, we've always had um a pretty kinky relationship from the start. Um the first night that we met, we hooked up, like we had sex. Okay. Um and then it just never stopped from there. Um, so what was it like six years ago?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Probably longer than that now.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Um we were on vacation, just you know, like playing around with the idea. Um, and we, you know, Googled like some swinger bars where we were, and we ended up finding um it's an off-premises bar, so nothing happens there, but it was just like swinger friendly. Um and had a great time. We ended up talking with someone who gave us like all the information, and then we kind of just took that and ran with it.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Okay, so but whose idea was it to kind of go down that road together?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I I yeah, I think it was a little bit of both, right? Um, we we've always had a pretty kinky relationship, and I think I I might have brought up the suggestion that like probably hey, like if you want to, you know, play with other people, like I'm cool with it. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Okay. That's usually how it goes, I think. Um you guys like kind of dipped your toes into like the swingers thing. Um AJ, I wanted to ask you, like, it was there was it simply just like an exciting kind of road to go down back then, or was there kind of this idea of maybe this would turn into something to where you are today?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah, I mean, like originally off the like a original conversation, I was like, hey, like, I'm fine if you don't want to see me go play with other people. Like if you want to go play with a you know girl or play with a couple or you know, whatever, like I'm fine with it. I'm I'm fine with just watching joining in afterwards. Um, so yeah, I've always been okay with it.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Okay, and Jay, what was your because this is I know I first was explored non-monogamy through the swingers community and the lifestyle. And I know how unusual that is, as far as like I mean, a lot of on nearly all the couples, it's all about like equality. Like you get to do this, so I get to do that. So it's like fair on both ends, and you constantly checking in to make sure that everything's good and like, yeah, I'm getting the opportunities and you're getting the opportunities, and we're gonna do this together and those separate, and blah, blah, blah. It's a lot of like meeting in the middle when it comes to these things. But um, Jay, I wanted to ask you about that because like when AJ was like, I'm fine with not hooking up with other people, were you like, but that's not fair for you?

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Um I'm still like that. I still bring it up. And I mean, it's not that like we're completely opposed to that because there's other fantasies, right, that we haven't um been able to accomplish yet.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

And I still am like, are you sure? Like, are you positive that this is what you actually want? Like it's and whenever it first started, I'm like, he's just doing this because you know, like he wants something out of it, or like he's not being like completely honest with me about like what he's looking for. And over the years, I'm like, no, like this is like a real thing for us. Like, this is what he likes, yeah. Yeah, it's so hard to comprehend, isn't it? It really is, and like the swinger thing, it's hard to make that four-way connection, yeah. And that's something that like nobody really talks about because you go on these websites and it's like it's always unfair because the wives are always hot, yeah. And the husbands are like no, I'm I'm fine actually. So it's like hard to, yeah, like it's and I I'm like, I just I'm not taking one for the team. I'm sorry, like I just can't.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

It is so true. The wives are always the hottest.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

It's never like, oh, the wife is okay and the husband's a smoke show.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Yeah, yeah, never, never. That's hilarious. Um, but it's so funny because the reaction that you had is one is very common of like, I don't understand, like I you're skeptical of his motivations. Like you, he must want to sleep with other women. Like this must be part of his motivation, is to do to want to do these things. It's really hard for women to comprehend that no, like he actually doesn't want that same privilege and or doesn't enjoy it as much as as he would just being on the sidelines and witnessing it all. Instead, I remember when I met my first cuck boyfriend and he told me he didn't want that privilege of being open on his side. And I was just like, What? Like, I've never heard of that. Like, that seems weird to me. Like, are you serious? But I was

When “Fair” Stops Being The Goal

SPEAKER_03 11:15

just like, all right, fine. Like, I've taken you, like, I believe you, like, if you don't want to, but I was just like, just so you know, like you have a hall pass. Like, that's that's because that's all I ever knew, right? It was like open on both sides. So I get that, I get that skepticism around that. But for for you, AJ, was it just that you knew, like you knew that you wanted to be kind of like the watcher?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Um yeah, like I'm perfectly fine. Like, even when it was just us, before we even got into like the swimmer world, I was perfectly fine with her just getting off, right? Like I loved going down on her, I love you know, like serving her in any way she could, and then you know, things progressed from there, right? And um, you know, like into toys, and then I just always got off on her getting off.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

And cucks are the best. Oh my god. Fuck.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

This is why I love cucks so fucking much. This is why I keep telling women, I'm like, you know, you'll have like the best partner ever, because they are so selfless like that, and they just really do get off on your pleasure. I just oh they're the best.

SPEAKER_04 12:25

It is, and I um when we go, because we still go to like swinger clubs, we went to one last night. Um, we enjoy the atmosphere, it's fun, but when we run into regular couples that are only like swingers, yeah, and I talk to the wives, and they're like, wait, what? Like what? And they always are like, How do you get him to do that?

SPEAKER_03 12:53

I fucking love it so much. That's so awesome. You know, there is there are like uh over the many years I've been talking about this. I met many, many cuckolding couples who have originated their origin story began in, you know, swingers' clubs and in the swingers' lifestyle. And and they all have the same thing. The guy, the husband says the same thing, they all say the same thing. The husband's like, I just realized that I really liked watching her like in her full sexual prowess. And I'm like, Yes, uh, something to witness. Was that your reaction when you did start watching her? Were you just like, damn, this is fucking amazing?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yes, I I remember like one of the like first couples that we hooked up with. Um, like she was playing with the husband, I was you know, like fingering the wife, whatever. But like I couldn't keep my focus off of Jet, right? Like the whole time sitting there, like, all right, like, yeah, you're cool, you're there, like whatever. Um, but like I want to see what's going on over here.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Um even the same sense, like if she's like playing with a you know a female half of a couple, whatever, like uh like my focus is always on her. Like, I don't really care what the other girl feels is going on with her, you know. Um, it's my my focus has always been on her. So like it was pretty apparent early on that like, all right, this is really what I want to say, and just her being pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

And AJ, did you have cuck fantasies or desires before you met her?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Um no necessarily like if there were desires or fantasies. Um, you know, like we were like when we first met, I would say we both came out of like pretty toxic relationships, which may have like set a precedent, right? Going into it. Um but yeah, like uh you know, I'd say it started by watching porn and you know, then like a cheating wife porn or whatever, then kind of got into it like wow, this is this is really awesome. This is something I could I can kind of get into and then you know just progress from there.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah, that's usually how the switch is flipped.

unknown 15:01

Like porn.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Like, oh damn, this gives me a really big boner. Like, ah, yeah. I can't deny it.

unknown 15:09

True.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Yeah, but that's so amazing that you guys kind of like met each other, were kind of it sounds like pretty sexually adventurous from the beginning. It seems like you guys really kind of clicked on the same level. But the evolution of where I was reading, oh thank you uh for the notes, but I was reading uh about your evolution to where you are now. I'm like, ooh, I want to get into this because this is like so interesting to me. I see this so often where couples start in the like swapping swinger lifestyle and then evolve into the more of like the female-led relationship, the cuckolding part. And so, how did that first happen? Was it like, oh, would that something happened, or there was a moment, or there was a night that she did this or said it said this in this way, where you were like, oh damn, like that's hot. Can we do more of that?

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Oh yeah, I mean, I don't know if there's like an exact like trigger that I might remember, but like it happened like over progression. And then um, so like you know, we we would be in swearing clubs and or we would meet couples for dates and you know, just for meetups or whatever, and just talk and have dinner or whatever. Um But it just never really like clicked in my mind. Like, I I don't I just want to see her, and then we kind of you know, like playing at home, you know, kind of went into like a little femdom space, um you know, which led us into doing more research, and uh that's probably around the time when we found like your podcast and you know, listened to it and you know, other things along that line and started you know exploring with chastity and you know all these other things and just really kind of open our minds up to this was fun and we really really like this and this is awesome and you know this is us now.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Was it both of you doing that research or was it one of you?

SPEAKER_04 17:07

Um, I would say it was both. I read a lot. I like I'm a reader, so I want to read all the things. Um, so I would find like websites or forums that really broke down, especially the chastity thing. Um, because at first I was a little taken back about it because I'm like, wait, what? I know, right? I know it's wild. You're like, what the fuck? And it when he came, like when we talked about it, I'm like, wait, so like we're not gonna have sex for like a week? Like what's going on? And then like I, you know, I read into it and I read into it, and then it's all about like the female pleasure, yeah. So then we started like playing into that, right? So he would stay locked for days, but I would get mine, and it just built from there and built from there, and then you know,

Femdom Research And First Chastity Steps

SPEAKER_04 18:00

porn always plays a big role into it. Um, we would, you know, pick videos as we're playing together, and then I would just notice, like, okay, like he's picking more of like the cook stuff, he's picking more of like um like the chastity stuff, the femme. So like I I take hints, right? Right, yeah, yeah. Um, and I would say like I've always been like pretty open um and promiscuous, I guess. Um so we just kind of like built off of it and belt off of it, and then um we set up like our first meet at a club that is geared towards single males. Okay. Um, and at first, like I thought it was gonna be more of like a male, female, male situation, right? Like a threesome. Yeah. And it just it didn't play off like that. Okay, well, this it was very short. It was the um he the gentleman that we met was a little quick on the trigger. Um dear. Which I mean, it happens, right? We get it. Um, but during like the buildup to it and the once we got into like the playroom, I noticed he kind of just like sat back and just let he was like, you you take control, like you do your thing. So then I was like, okay, like just started, you know, like pulling pants off, and you know, sat him down and sucked his dick, and he just sat back and was just like, This is great, you know, like heaven, yeah. Yeah, and then I think from that experience, it just got the ball rolling.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

Oh, so you loved that part of it. Yeah, that's it was awesome. That's yeah, you were just like, okay, this is this is where I'm meant to be right here.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Both of you. Well, it helps too that like um I love to control a situation. Okay, like I love to be able to, you know, like make things the way that I want to make things and like have complete control over something. So you were born for this.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

You were fucking born for this. Promiscuous, bossy, controlling, like, yes. Yeah. What did you but what has this been like? I love this for you guys so much. But Jay, what has it been like for you to really step into that? Because it sounds like it really fits who you are. Did it feel like, okay, this is this is me?

SPEAKER_04 20:44

Um, for the most part, I feel like as a woman, you're always gonna kind of like it's almost like, am I being too much? Like, is this too much? Um and but like I I kind of just like fell into it and it just felt natural. Now, some of the femme dom stuff I'm still like working out. Um, I feel like it takes practice.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

It feels it doesn't feel so performative. Like for me, it feels like I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna play dress up now, and I'm gonna like fake this role for a little bit. And it just feels so weird and awkward, and you're just like, is this fun or is this like this feels like a job right now?

SPEAKER_04 21:30

Yeah, exactly. And like sometimes it comes a little more natural, but then you know, like some days I'm just like, I don't know if I wanna beat you, right? I don't know if I want to beat you and call you a piece of shit.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Like I know, I wish that it was like it felt more spontaneous and like in the moment, and not so like, okay, this is the scene we're gonna do today. Like, I don't know. I think you're right, it takes practice. And you just have to like get there eventually. But in the beginning part, it's just awkward as fuck. Yes. Right? Yes. Yeah. I get that. But good for you for like actually, you know, wanting to give it a shot and go for it and practice it. What's that like for you, AJ?

SPEAKER_00 22:18

It's fine, right? Like, yeah, you are right. Like it can be performative because it's like we're doing it in our home, right? Like our home is we don't have a room set up for it already, right? So we can just walk in and go. So it's like it does take planning and preparation. And you know, there's like toys that need to be cleaned and things that need to be set up, and you know, um, you know, so on and so forth. So like it is a bit of like a task, but like I will happily do that. I will happily do all the front, all the legwork in the front to set everything up and get everything ready. Yeah, like that's you know, part of the fun, I guess. But um, yeah, yeah, like you can definitely tell like when she's into it and when she's she's just playing the role.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Yeah, yeah, that's understandable. It was really awkward for me in the beginning, too, where I was just like, this doesn't even feel like I don't know, sexy to me. I'm just like, this feels weird. But when you do, when you can feel like, okay, yeah, I'm really comfortable with this now, and like I'm you're sinking into this whole thing that you're doing together, it can be so fun. Cause like you can push his boundaries a little bit, and he's just like, whoa, mind blown.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Yeah, and that's another thing. Like, some of these sessions that we do with the Femdom stuff at home is like hours long. It's not like a 30-minute quick, you know, we're 45 minutes, it's like three, four hours. Uh so we in our basement, we have like a little setup type of thing. Finished basement. Yeah, it's a fan, it's not like a creepy basement, it's a finished basement. Um and I'll tie him up, you know, beat him, whip up whatever for a little bit, and then leave him down there tied up and blindfolded, and then come upstairs and I'll like do dishes or just normal stuff, and then I'll go back and like continue what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

So it's yeah, it's performative most of the time. It's so funny. I dated a guy who was like that. He just liked to be tied up and left there.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Like, like just go out, leave the house even, just fucking take off. No idea when you're coming back.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

Yeah, tied him up when grocery chapter

The First Single-Male Club Attempt

SPEAKER_04 24:35

and came back. God damn.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

There's something about that though. This is such a mind fuck. It's hilarious. It's like I get it, I get it, but it's still wild.

SPEAKER_04 24:46

Yeah, like that part. Uh it amazes me because I'm like, I don't want to do that. Like, don't tie me up and leave me.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

I would be so mad if somebody did that to me. I'd be so mad. I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's exciting. So you guys are experiencing or experimenting with Femdom and getting into that and impact play and all that sort of stuff. Where did you learn how to do all of that? Porn and Reddit.

unknown 25:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Okay. Because I've I talked to couples who have actually hired a dominatrix and she like teaches the wife how to do all of this stuff. And I was like, oh, that's brilliant. I feel like I would learn better that way watching somebody like do it.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

And I've looked into it, and it's almost like you don't know like who's legitimate and who's not. Yeah. Um, because even at like some of the clubs or parties we've been to, like we've run into women that were like, oh yeah, like I'm a trained, what was she?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Uh the one girl we ran into was like apprenticing under dominatrix.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

Um but I'm like, oh I I don't like how do you verify that? Yeah, you know, like do you have references?

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Like what there needs to be like a college for you know dominatrix skills? Like, do you know when we take an online course? So um, no, I I think that's it's interesting that you learn so much from Reddit. Um there like women on there who are dominatrix who go on there and give advice and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 26:19

Um, yeah, there's a fem domreddit that I'll go on. Every once in a while I might make a post like asking for advice.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

Um, but a lot of times I just go on there and I get ideas. Oh, I love things to do to him. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

That's so awesome. Yeah, I know about the um cuckolding psychology um subreddit on there that I look at that one, but I haven't explored the rest of the kink world in on Reddit. So I'm not sure like what's available there, but that's interesting that it's a place to be able to get advice and ideas and stuff like that. Um, so what about the actual like cuckolding stuff? Like, was there a memorable first time for you guys where this was this really felt like okay, where you were, Jay, where you were like, okay, I'm gonna cuck the shit out of this guy right now.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

Absolutely, yes. There was. Um, and to be honest with you, when it comes to like the single males, oh god, I could go on and on about them, but um it is hard to find one that is comfortable in that environment and that understands their role. Yeah. Um, and we did meet somebody, um, and we played with them at we've played with them twice, twice. Um, the first time was at a club, and it it was the experience that was like, oh shit, like this is what this is supposed to be like. Like this guy is a professional.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Like, wow. Okay, what made him like stand out like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:00

I I would say his like comfortability with it, right? And just like he understood he he understood like what what this looks like and what it looks like in real life, right? And not just like in the porn. And he was able to back it up with the performance. It wasn't just you know, oh yeah, I've watched the porn before. Yeah, he was he was able to do it and okay for a long time.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Okay, okay, so he lasted. That's good. I tapped out. I tapped out. Yeah, damn.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Okay, so he had some stamina. Um, so but did he like you said he like knew what to do and how to perform, but like did he know how to kind of involve you, AJ? Like, was he just like saying things to you?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Definitely. Um, like so we had like prefaced like during our initial conversation

Meeting A Bull Who Gets It

SPEAKER_00 28:55

that like listen, like I take my direction from her. Um, you can make all the suggestions you want to her, but like you know, everything runs through her, right? I think she would tell me. But like he did a very good job, I believe, making suggestions to you um and you know, feeling it out, right? The first time we played.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Oh, so he was directing what was he doing or saying?

SPEAKER_04 29:19

Um, it was so he did a really great job with directing. Um, he kind of just like from the beginning was just like, tell him to do this, or like tell him this is my pussy, it's not his anymore. Like, um yeah, he knew he knew. Yeah, like he knew. And we always go into like the situation with the single males hesitant because so many of them lie about like what their experience is or what they're comfortable with. Um and I think a lot of single males come into it is well, this is just a normal like male, female, male threesome, like, but it's not. And he just was very comfortable in the situation, like close contact, just all the things, and just showed us like, oh, this is what it's supposed to feel like, like this is how it's supposed to go down, just comfortable, and everybody just like meshed well together, and it was just different positions, and I'm gonna put you here, and you know, tell them to do this, and like we're gonna do this, and it was just it just played out so well.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Okay, and AJ, what did it feel like for you to really be treated like a cuck?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

It it felt it felt great, honestly. Um, like you know, in my normal life, I have to make so many decisions and do this and do that, and you know, management and all this. So, like in the bedroom, like I want to just be able to let go, right? And like enjoy the moment and not have to think and just do what I'm told. Um, and like that was probably the first time that I had the ability to do that, right? Like it was awesome. Um, it was like what I what we thought it should be. Um it was so great.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

So you were sitting there watching, um were you allowed to jerk off or no? No, he was caged. Ooh, yeah. Um that must have been uncomfortable. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Like borderline, uh not not painful, but right, like very uncomfortable, very, very uncomfortable. Because you know it was such a hot moment, right? Like watching her be her natural self and you know, like seeing uh it was almost like seeing her, like when we first got together from a third person, right? Like just her natural, uninhibited self, yeah. Um, you know, getting the shit fucked out of her. Um and you know, boss me around, like, okay, um, you you stand over there, okay. You sit here, all right. Um you eat my ass while I'm riding this deck, and like, you know, all these things that I was like, oh, this this is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

We were like, fuck yes, more of this. Was there cleanup or no?

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Um, not that time. Not that time. Um actually, he he didn't even actually both times we played with this guy, he didn't even come.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah, I've had some bulls dude that just like swear to god they have so much self-control, they just never come. I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

Yeah, that's what he said. Um, he was like, it just he said, I can just go for hours.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

Yeah. I wonder if some of these guys take Viagra like beforehand. I wonder. Anyway, probably, yeah. But anyway, okay, so that's fun. So what what was there any kind of like like aftercare, or what did you guys do afterwards, like right after?

SPEAKER_04 32:49

Um we always have kind of like um so we were at a club the first night, um, and it's about 45 minutes from our house. I think I slept on the ride home. You were like, I'm done. I was cooked. I was cooked. Um, but when we came, what did we do when we came home?

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Uh I mean like we always have yeah, we always have sex when we come home.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Okay. Probably more than once, right? Typically two, three, four times. Um, and like you know, we have we have a afterclub ritual where we get home, you know, it's usually two, three o'clock in the morning. We make a frozen pizza. We get home, right? You get a little fair because it's been a long night, everybody's worn out, and then um, yeah, so like if we we we have we definitely have like an aftercare ritual.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

It's yeah, we always play on a Saturday, we always play on Saturday nights, and then Sunday we're we're home together, you know, we spend the day together to make sure that you know everything's kept and we're good.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

And after that first time with the bull, the actual bull, like were was there a debrief where you guys were like, wow, like that was intense.

SPEAKER_04 34:00

Yes, yeah, yes, and the second time we played with him was even more intense. So it we actually took a break um for like a couple, like almost two months of like not playing, not going out, nothing.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Because I was like, oh wow, like it was almost like because we we played with him last summer, and then he you know, he was unavailable, our schedules didn't match, and yeah, we played with a handful of single males between then, but it was like nothing was ever as good as that time. Um, so it's like you're constantly trying to scratch his itch, and then when we finally had

Aftercare Rituals And Cool-Off Breaks

SPEAKER_00 34:40

the opportunity to play with him again, and it was even more intense the first time, um, it was kind of like all right, that's what we were looking for. Like we can kind of like calm down for a month or so, right now.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Wow. Okay. So there is a such a huge difference between the like guys who really understand the dynamic and guys who don't. Do you still fuck around with guys, the single guys who who don't just because there's the real balls are so few and far between?

SPEAKER_04 35:14

They yeah. Um, we try to screen them as much as we can. Yeah, you can only you know do so much because people are gonna tell you whatever they want to tell you. Um, I think so. I think one of the problems with like finding a bull is I tend to lean towards a type. Okay, what's your type? So I like um like bigger white guys, like tall, like broad-shouldered, big dick white guys. And that is very hard to find. You don't say.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Same with black guys. I've like I fucked this like really tall black guy. Oh, I was sure the proportions must have added up. And they don't. I was like, damn, what the fuck? I feel like that's false advertising.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

Yes. And what's funny is like the bull that we played with like the two times that you know gave us like this great experience was not somebody I would ever pick out. Really? Yeah. Okay, if he's like Spanish or um, I never really asked him, but he's like a smaller guy, like just not anybody that would catch my eye.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

And it just so happened, like he met us on the right night and like was very nice, like very smooth. Yeah, very smooth, yeah, very confident in himself. So I was like, uh, you know, we'll give it a shot.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Um wow. But it is hard to find that, like, it's hard to find like a legitimate bull.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Yeah. Where do you look? Where's your go-to place?

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Um, mainly, you know, we we have a profile on Swear website. Um, and then you know, we have Reddit accounts, we make posts on Reddit. Um, we have found one or two decent off of Reddit with you know probably 10,000 messages and this whole screening process. Um, it's a lot. It is. Um, but even like the Swear website, right? A paid website, you would assume that there'd be less flakes and less people that are just gonna, you know, bullshit. But that is as well, right? Like you find that on there. Um but with the like the one we've played with a couple times that has been awesome, borderline perfect, um, we found him on a sweater website.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Okay. So it's hit and miss. Yeah. Yeah, that's gotta be frustrating. I I are you looking for certain kind of like I want a bull who um is gonna be down for like cleanup, or are you looking for certain things like dynamics with this bull?

SPEAKER_04 38:14

Yeah, and I think that that's another thing is um they have to be comfortable with this, right? Like, I don't want you to come into the room and I always give a warning. I always say we lean towards the kinky side. This is our fantasy world. Yeah, and whatever happens here happens. Like, we we don't have many roles when it comes to playing. Um, and we've had some people come in that were like, yeah, like totally, like, I'm cool with it, I'm cool with it, I'm cool with it. And then he'll be caged, and they're like, Oh, wait, what? Oh god, it's definitely going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

I almost want to send them like a list of like porn, like you have to watch these five videos. If if if you can, if you can get off on these five videos, then like okay, maybe we can play.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

That might be the way to do it. Yeah. Or just like make a montage like of all like clips of all five into one and send it and be like, if you're good with this, if you're don't lose your boner to this, then we'll we'll be good.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

But like when we message, like I let them know, like, this is what we're into. Like, these are the things, like cleanup is an option, but there's like steps that we have to take for that, right? To stay safe. Um, like he might be close contact, I might be riding your dick, and his face might be in my ass. Like, it all depends, and you have to be comfortable with that. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of men think that they are freaky and kinky until it's time to like do it. Right. And I think that they're hesitant, and then they just want either a solo with me or they just want a regular threesome.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Right. God, what a bunch of little bitches. Just get over it. Like, fuck.

Screening Bulls, Types, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_03 40:05

You know? Yeah. You know, your husband's face is gonna be near his balls. Like, who gives a fuck? Like, just get over it. Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 40:15

You know, we're not asking to put your face near my ball, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Oh my god, guys get so fucking weird about this shit. I'm just like, oh my god, to me, it's such a turnoff. I'm like, really, like, this is just body parts, like fuck off. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Um, Jay, I wanted to ask you about um being bisexual. Have you like thought about like cucking him with a woman? Or how does that work?

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Um, I definitely would if the opportunity came. Um, I do think it's harder to find women um that are actually into women.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:52

A lot of the couples that we've played with and that I've played with the female, I can tell if you're just doing this for a show or if you're actually into females. Um, and I don't want to be like, I don't want to hook up with a female that I feel like I'm forcing it on them. Yeah. Um, so I mean, if the opportunity presented itself, like absolutely, like, why not?

SPEAKER_03 41:21

I love that because like it wasn't until somewhat recently where I thought about the statistics around orgasm, uh, hetero women having uh uh the likelihood of having an orgasm on a like a one-night stand with a hetero guy. Like it's pretty fucking slim. It's like 5% chance of actually having an orgasm. Okay, a real orgasm, not a fake one. Okay. So like the odds are pretty, pretty slim as it is. And so, but I was thinking, like, the odds of having an orgasm with a woman, woman to woman, is actually really fucking high. So I was like, it makes more sense to cuck a guy with a woman because like she's gonna get the job done better than the solo guy.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

For real. For real.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Yeah, because I and there's a lot of reasons around that, but like it's more focused on um oral and less on like PIV, penis, and vagina sex, and like it's more focused on taking time and taking a break and then going at it again and doing toys and all the fun things. And so, like, it makes sense. I'm like, yeah, that I I can understand that, but I don't know that from a cux perspective, watching your wife with a woman get would give you that same kind of angsty, cucky feelings if it's not a guy.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Yeah, like I for me, I don't think it would. Um, yeah, I mean, like, do I love watching her with another woman? Yeah, of course, right? Who wouldn't? What guy wouldn't? Um, I think like kind of like my uh uh fantasy that we haven't really played out yet is like her hugging me with another, like a dominant couple, which you know, I think would be good, right? Like, um, you know, she can play with the husband, she can play with the wife, you know, even like we we practice a small amount of like degradation or whatever, right? Like if she's fucking a husband and the wife wants to like talk shit, like I'm cool with it, right? Like we're just playing a game at the end of the day, but um, yeah, I think that would be awesome from my perspective.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

Yeah. And AJ, you mentioned earlier something about like during the day you make all the decisions and in the bedroom you just want to let go. Um, I hear this often from cucks, but what is it what is it like for you guys to have to try to like um keep or maintain a level of discretion so that people in your everyday life don't know that this is what you guys do in the bedroom?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Um We haven't really ran into many issues with it. We don't tell friends and family. We don't play in our circle. We don't normally even play for people playing with people like in our area. Most of the people we play with are at least like 30 minutes outside of our area. And we really haven't ran into any situations. And a lot of times we are on like you know, like swingers' websites, we're in swingers' clubs, or we're in, you know, like clubs that uh you know put them sowards towards hot wipes and single males. So like if you're there, you're there for a reason, right? Like you probably want to have some distraction in your life as well. The single males does make it a little hard because you know, like men brag, men want to, you know, talk shit to their boys. Um but like that's a we go through a whole conversation, right? And like we talk to people on Reddit or we talk to people on Switzerland's website, like we make sure like if they are in the area, they didn't grow up in the area, I want to make sure it's not somebody I went to high school with, right? That's that the word's gonna get out, right? Yeah, and you know, like ultimately we're all there for the same reason. Um we're not trying to pick people up at local bars and you know go through that, you know. More power to you if that's what you're into. Um, but for us, it's just not something we partake in.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

And have you guys like talked about what would happen if perhaps like she uh Jay, like you've catch feelings for one of these guys,

Discretion, Group Chats, And Feelings

SPEAKER_03 45:30

or is that just so like outside of the realm of possibility?

SPEAKER_04 45:34

I think it's so far out. Um, and the only reason why I say that is because um, and I've had like some of the single males that we've played with say to me, like, you give me nothing over messaging. Like, I'm not going to praise you. You know, like I'm not trying to date you. Yeah, I'm very like male-minded when it comes, like this is just sex for me. Yeah. Um, I don't care what you do, you know. Like, I don't want to hear about your life story. Like, I don't I have enough to deal with. I don't want another husband, I don't want a boyfriend. Like, I'll take a girlfriend maybe, but um, but I just I don't ever see me getting there. Um, just because we and all the conversations that we have, it's a group chat. It's never just me and the male, it's always a group chat. I mean, it starts off on Reddit, like with just me, but he reads everything and then we move it over to Telegram.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Um, so I don't see that happening as of now.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Yeah, I mean, like we any anybody we've ever played with, like couples, women, male, like uh this might sound a little fucked up, but like here's the toy for us, right? Like at the end of the day, like there there hasn't been any emotional connection that like I've I've seen or I believe. Um I don't really like think that would be an issue, but if it you know we have a very open communication with line of communication, like we we talk constantly, we go through everything, and I I have a feeling if it something ever were to come up or happen, like we would be able to talk about it and quash it from the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:20

So I think that one of the things that we also is kind of like in our set of rules for this, is if we talk, right, even to couples um on a regular basis at clubs or whatever, we don't play with you. Okay. Um so we have like a couple people that if we see them in the club, like we'll hang out all night. Like we're friends, we're we're friends, we'll text, whatever. It does not go past that. We will not hook up with you, even me and the wife. It's a no. Um, just because I feel like that's the boundary right there. Okay. And we and I've heard so many stories from couples of, oh, you know, like he went outside of their marriage with somebody else, and or she did, and you know, they ended up in a relationship with somebody else because of that.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Yeah.

unknown 48:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

I think it helps to um to do to think about things in the way that you are, Jay, where you're like compartmentalizing thing, these people in your life. Like this is this is romance in my life, and this is, you know, the sex part are and these two are not going to overlap, kind of thing. Right. Yeah. And some women don't want that. There are some women in the cuckolding lifestyle that really do want that emotional connection with whoever it is that they're sleeping with, or um, some cucks who really enjoy the thought of their wife having romantic feelings for this other guy, which is wild because it just kind of like amps up the whole angsty part of the the angst that they like about uh that. So each couple is like really quite unique. Um, some people, some women want to blend of like, yes, I do want to have like a full friendship with this person, no romance, but a friendship with this guy and you know, have him in my life as a friend who I fuck. And so it's so great for me to learn about all these different dynamics because they're all fine. Whatever works for you guys is what works for you. And that's totally good. As long as everybody is happy, then it's all good.

SPEAKER_04 49:31

Like we've played I think we've played with that idea a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yeah, we have, and like we've discussed it um of like a a regular bowl or you know, whatever, which we haven't had the chance to have that yet, right? So we don't really know what it's gonna look like when it if it does, when it does.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

Okay. So you have had that discussion, and who knows? Then I wanted I wanted to ask you about this, like this whole evolution, which is so fucking awesome, and I love it. Because it seems like you guys are both like equally as invested in the this exploration going down this road together. You've evolved so much to where you are right now. Where is it gonna go next? Like, I'm like, what is this gonna look like in five years from now? Have you guys thought about that? Like, do you have a vision? Like, is there a bucket list of stuff that you're like, yeah, we need to do this?

SPEAKER_04 50:21

Yeah, I think there's definitely a bucket list that we haven't done yet things that we're interested in, things that we want to do. But I think that that's another reason why we do these cool-off periods because I feel like if we don't, it's just gonna progress so quickly into I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

You know, this is so common. I hear about this often where couples like feel like maybe this is part of how you keep this a very healthy evolution, is that you take these little breaks together. You kind of like regroup and then you know, go for it again.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, like we've our evolution has been so much, um, especially when we got into like the coconut world over the past, you know, two years, three years, um that like, you know, yeah, but at first it was just completely protected sex with her and another male, and then you know, it's going into cream pods and clean up and um you know, like me helping insert a bull into her, right? Like all these things that like like oh my god, I would never like have like a buy experience or or whatever. Um that like things have progressed so far. It's like sometimes you gotta like step back, like, okay, like let's come down before before this gets carried away, or you know, before we do something. And we have had experiences that like were like we'll call it maybe like micro experiences, right? Like we've done something, it's like okay, well, maybe we can expand on that in the future, but like we gotta find the right person or the you know, right time in the right group, whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Oh, I love that. I love this kind of like whole learning opportunity that you guys are going through

Bucket List Ideas And Future Vision

SPEAKER_03 52:00

right now. I think this is so great, but taking a break, that is definitely a great strategy. Is there are there some things that you've done over the years as well where you're like, yeah, that really worked? Like, I'm glad we did it that way and not like fucked shit up.

SPEAKER_04 52:18

I think taking our time. Yeah, and I think this whole thing is a learning experience, right? Um, when we are playing, we are constantly like, are you okay? Okay, like is what I'm doing like okay? Um and it it just might even be like a quick like eye contact. Okay. So I think like that helps. And just the I mean, I feel like every time we play or go out, like we learn something new or like we'll talk about something that we haven't talked about before. So I mean, we've been at this for years, and I I'm still learning things.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Yeah, it never you never stop, honestly. You never stop learning. And if you do, it's just become boring as fuck because you're just like doing the same thing all the time, right? So, what's on the bucket list? Do you want do you want do you want to share what's on the bucket list?

SPEAKER_04 53:14

Sure, we can share. Um, one of the things is that we haven't done yet is like um glory hall. Okay. Um, preferably um with like a couple. Um, I would like to do that. Um, what else?

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Um I don't I mean, I really I think maybe just like expanding on some of the things, the situations we have been in, have done, or maybe like, okay, that was cool, but like maybe the guy could have lasted a little longer.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Or we could have, you know, like I think primarily it's finding like better people to play with, or like, you know, more consistent, or you know, um, yeah, I mean, like she's she wants to do a glory role. I'm awesome. I'll gladly watch that. Um, like I said before, like, you know, her company with a couple, like a dominant couple would be awesome. Um and I mean, like, you know, continuation of what we've done, right? Like, I've I've cleaned her up, I've cleaned the cream pie from her before, like, you know, like whatever. I'll maybe see her with two guys next time. Or you know, yes.

SPEAKER_04 54:20

Escalate, escalate. But nobody tells you like how hard it is to like get everybody together.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

I know, I know. Why is it so fucking hard? This just no. We're just trying to have orgasms here. Like, come on, you guys. Like, why is life so hard like this?

SPEAKER_04 54:38

Even like when we plan for things, oh my god. So we every once in a while, like we'll go get like a nice hotel room um in the city. And we talked to this one guy for like two weeks, maybe three weeks, like almost every single day, like planning this out. This is what's good, it's so you know, like I'm like, this is really like gonna be a great date. A day before like everything was supposed to happen, complete silence.

SPEAKER_03 55:07

Oh my god, no. No, you almost gotta like take a deposit from these guys, like you know, give me a hundred bucks, you'll get it back when you show up.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Like, fuck it's it but it's almost been like now, like when we set those up, we just we get like five or six or seven or eight like lined up, like just in case, like one of these guys is gonna come through.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

Yeah, we're gonna have backup upon backup upon backup. Oh, it's so frustrating. Um, that's that's tough. I hear you know this all the time. This is the number one complaint of couples over the years is how do I find consistent type of guys that I'm into? Um, really, really difficult. So uh you're not alone. Everybody has the same frustrations. I've talked to the single guys, the bulls who have the same complaints about couples who are really flaky too. So it's just across the board kind of shitty behavior, which sucks. Yeah. But we're just trying to get our rocks off. Like, come on, people, show up. This is so frustrating. Ugh. Um, before we wrap this up, I just want to give you both an opportunity. Is there anything else, any kind of like final words, any any um words of advice, any things that you'd like to say about your lifestyle that you want people to know about before we close this up?

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Um I just you know, caution people to be safe. Um, like on our swinger profile, it it pretty much state it does state that she's basically a unicorn with a built-in bodyguard. You know, I'm always there for her protection. Um, I'm I'm a large fellow and I have you know some combat experience and um that we will make it out any situation, but just don't go willy-dilly, just meeting random people in random places because it could be it could possibly be potentially be dangerous. But um you know, just be safe, have fun, um and you know, just keep an open mind situations, right? Like it'll it I wouldn't when I was you know 15, 20 years ago, I would have never thought that we'd be sitting here having this conversation with you know a podcaster from Canada about our sexual lifestyle. And um, yeah, just keep an open mind. The world's a great place for you light a bit.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

Yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

What about you, Jay? Um, I don't have much to add to that. I think um, not so much as advice, but I just wish that there was more of a place for the for the women to like talk about this and like because I really like who am I talking about this with? You know, like who am I bouncing the ideas off of besides Reddit and online, yeah, random people that are probably men on the internet pretending to be females, but a lot of the time that's the case, yes, yes, yeah. So I think like my thing is is that um if somebody is listening to it and it's a female

Safety Advice And Closing Plugs

SPEAKER_04 58:10

and you know you want to reach out, you just need somebody to talk to and just be like, oh my god, we had this crazy experience or you know, I just want to see if uh other women are doing this like for real or you know, like the way that you feel about it, just reach out.

SPEAKER_03 58:26

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Great advice. It's been fantastic having you guys on the show. Where can people learn more about you? Do you have a Reddit profile that you would like to share? Um, yeah, we can share both.

SPEAKER_04 58:42

You have mine on there.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Um mine's just the generic Reddit name. It is first Dash Philosopher, Dash 51. Um, and hers is Mrs. DCLO. That's her Reddit.

SPEAKER_03 59:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

M-R-S. Oh, M R S D C L O.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

Yeah, okay. Okay, I will put those in the show notes for today. So if you're any anybody would like to get a hold of them, um, you can do so that way. Thank you so much for being on the show. This has been really great. I love this conversation. I had so much fun, and I really enjoyed learning about your relationship. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 59:26

Thank you. That's gonna be it for today's episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Make sure you go to VenusCuckledress.com. That's where you can book a private chat with me. And you can also join the Queen's Borders community and get all the amazing benefits like the private podcast and the helpful cup tier where you can get key holding for the private Snapchat group, monthly private chats with me, and weekly live hangouts, and invites to special live events. Oh, and you can also submit a question or confession for the show. Just go to VenusCucklegust.com and click on the link that says the podcast. Make sure you follow me on Blue Sky Social. Yes, I said Blue Sky Social fuck Twitter. My handle there is at cucklejustv. Alright, that's it for today's show. You guys will see you next time.