Fraud Prevention with Scott Williamson

Scott Williamson, TSCRA Executive Director of law enforcement and theft prevention, joins TSCRA Talk host, Kristen Brown, to discuss a prevalent issue on the rise – fraud. Williamson discusses how utilizing the internet, while convenient, opens the door for misrepresentation of the items such as cattle, horses or hay. 

Williamson emphasizes the importance of utilize credible sources to locate commodities which could be a trusted website that specializes in selling the item or find a reference that you know and trust to inspect the item prior to purchase.  

Additionally, he mentions phishing schemes and says if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. He shares other tips to keep your animals and property secure as well as remembering the ‘neighborhood watch’ mentality. 

Transcript

Kristen Brown:                Welcome to TSCRA Talk, a podcast by Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association. I'm your host, Kristen Brown. Joining me today is Scott Williamson, executive director of Law Enforcement and Theft Prevention for TSCRA. Scott, thanks for joining me on the podcast today. We're excited to have you and hear from you.

Scott Williamson:           Yes ma'am.

Kristen Brown:                Let's get right to business and talk about a hot topic right now, fraud.

Scott Williamson:           That is a growing concern for us from years ago when we started and the dominant part of our criminal investigations were the simple theft of cutting a lock, going in, and taking an animal or a piece of property. More and more that is shifting with all of the digital world online platforms. Hay is one of the big issues right now where somebody will obviously looking for hay. You're not looking next door because everybody within a region is going to be short on hay. So you're looking out of state or outside of your known region, and you're doing those typically on outside platforms, digital platforms, and that lends itself for people who want to be deceptive.

                                         So they either sell you some hay that is not the caliber that you think you're paying for, or they... We're working one case in South Texas right now that is thousands of dollars worth of hay that was sold at a high price. The money was wired and then the hay was just never delivered. So when you're dealing with somebody that you don't know who they are, who their ethics are, that's a high probability you're going to have an issue.

Kristen Brown:                Well, what should someone do? What are some of the red flags to watch for? Do you recommend contracts? Talk through What producers need to do and watch for.

Scott Williamson:           First off is to make sure you know where you're searching for, whether it's a commodity like hay, wheat seed, or whether you're looking for horses or replacement cattle. There are more consistently legitimate platforms that, for instance, if you're trying to buy a set of cattle and you're buying them off Superior, even though you're not there, there's a representative. There is a history there that they're going to take care of their customers.

              But first and foremost, my suggestion is to try to find out something about them. Get a reference, find somebody that's in that area that might be able to go over and look at the hay or to tell you about that person's integrity, and even feel free to call the Special Rangers. Because while we can't get into a situation of talking about somebody's ethics or a criminal history, if there is an active investigation or past investigation that's been disposed of dealing with that person, then we can steer you away from getting into that problem in the first place. But the next couple of things are, if it sounds too good be true, it likely is. I tell people top dollar or the cheapest dollar is not always puts the most money in your pocket. If it's not a good deal, then it could cost you a lot of money in the long run.

Kristen Brown:                Sure. Do you recommend contracts? Is that a common thing to have a contract on hay?

Scott Williamson:           There may be not so much a contract, unless you're buying for a long-term situation, but a bill of sale that is very clear on what you're... You're paying for an immediate delivery, that this isn't a long-term agreement. That's critical key. And my suggestion is never to make a payment until you have received it. Because at the time it delivers, if it's not what it was represented as, not just that you don't like it suddenly, but if it is completely different and you can show that it's different than what was represented to you, you have the right to return that and just say you're not going to unload it.

                                         Same goes with cattle or horses. That is the time. And what we often see is people will unload the hay or unload the cattle or receive the horse and two weeks later they'll have buyer's remorse and say, "Boy, that just wasn't what I thought it was going to be." And then they want to pursue some kind of a rebuttal or response and the courts aren't going to be on their side because they did take receipt at the time that that decision needed to be made and typically are not going to have a recourse.

Kristen Brown:                Sure, that makes sense. And it's helpful to know that it's important to be diligent upfront in expecting the product when it arrives at the ranch. Tell us a little bit more about things to be aware of with buying animals online.

Scott Williamson:           This would go from hay to cattle to horses and equipment and a plethora of other things, but the same scheme lays out from, we see people take either other people's videos or take their own videos of other people's property, cattle, horses, post them online, represent that they have authority to sell them, selling them, getting the wired money, and then never delivering anything because they actually never owned anything. We see people misrepresent from the point of simply just telling them maybe the video is of the animal, but it is taken in such a fashion that it doesn't clearly depict what they are.

                                         An example that may be a horse that is this big performance horse that they sell, barrel horses, team roping horses are highly susceptible to this, but they had some kind of a major flaw that wasn't disclosed or they may be lame, has some kind of a health issue where painkillers or something were able to hide that for a long enough time to get that video. Then those animals are delivered and the buyer can then be hung in the middle. There are circumstances from every aspect, whether you're selling or buying, of having that issue.

              One of the thing that's becoming quite common is just phishing schemes. So you're trying to sell a horse cattle, hay, whatever it may be online, and somebody contacts you and says, "Hey, I'm going to take it all at this price." Or "I'm going to give you above that price and I need you to get up a hay buyer coming through there, I mean the trucker coming through there, and he's going to pick all this up." So I'm going to mail you a cashier's check and you go cash it and you then give the trucker his money and load up the animals and they're gone. And in many of those circumstances we've seen that be a counterfeit cashier's check so that you go cash it and the money is then removed from your account and you give it to somebody else or you spend whatever you had. And then three days later when that turns around, or two days or whatever it might be, that that's a fraudulent document, you're the one out all of that money with no animals.

Kristen Brown:                Wow. That's a little bit surprising to hear, just not being well versed on this information, because I would think a cashier's check would be a very safe way to receive money. But you're saying still be aware and give it three days, give it five days? Any recommendation there?

Scott Williamson:           Actually just go to the bank and they can run the numbers on that and tell you whether it's a legitimate one or not. They've become very proficient at counterfeiting checks and cashier's checks.

Kristen Brown:                Well, that's interesting. And if something like that were to happen, I anticipate that you would recommend that people reach out to their Special Ranger because like you said, criminals are criminals and it's probably not their first time to do it, correct?

Scott Williamson:           Absolutely. The adage we go through is, if we've caught them in a crime, it's not their first time. Seldom has that ever been the case. And this is a real easy way for farmers and ranchers to visualize that circumstance. One, you have to report it and the quicker you report it, the more likelihood that we have something to work with. I'll tell you right up front that online digital platform type crimes can be very difficult, but the quicker it's reported, the more we have to work with.

                                         But if you think about having a neighbor who has a bad fence and his cattle keep getting out on the road and you keep helping him put them back in and every day they're out and you keep putting them back in, well, if you don't fix that fence, that problem never ceases. It just compounds. So I like to say that the same scenario exists with these thieves. If we don't prosecute them, then they get more brazen in their attempts and more people are harmed. So it's very critical that people are willing to report and to file charges. No matter how small the crime, feel free to call us. That's what we're here for.

Kristen Brown:                Great. That's great to know that it's not a bother to give y'all a call and provide some information.

Scott Williamson:           One thing to know for your listeners is Special Rangers, we're commissioned by DPS and the state, so with that, we have an obligation to work for all producers in the state of Texas and Oklahoma. So it's commonly misunderstood that we only work for members and that's just simply not true. We take very seriously our ability to prosecute any and all thieves.

Kristen Brown:                Well, that's very good information. Let's run through some of those reminders that are discussed I think every time I get to visit with a Special Ranger. But the first thing, have your TSCRA posted sign up, brand your cattle, lock your gates, your barns, your shops. Don't just leave stuff sitting out. Tell us about a few more or touch on those a little more if you'd like.

Scott Williamson:           I was raised and spent my life in West Texas, and so we enjoyed some freedoms that maybe not some more urban areas have, but locking gates is very important, locking barns. While it is so frustrating for those of us out there actually in the day-to-day production, it helps you know particularly if you're a non-resident producer and you live in Dallas and you have a place in Brownwood or Jacksboro, because you can immediately know that somebody removed a lock and entered there. You don't have to actually notice something missing before you realize somebody has been on your property.

                                         The next thing that to me is very important is knowing what your property is, knowing where it is, paying enough attention that you have serial numbers where you can, vehicle identification numbers, all your tractors, most of your plows, four wheelers, side by sides, all of these are going to have numbers. So if you got pictures and that recorded when it's stolen, those are necessary things that we'll have to enter in the national and Texas stolen property list.

                                         And then to kind of book in that on the backside is it's so important to keep your eyes open. One, to notice if there was tracks or something going into your property that didn't look right. If you see something that just makes you for the moment think, "Not sure what happened there." Take the time to stop and figure it out and if there's something that doesn't seem right, take the time to call us. We don't mind. You don't have to be neck deep into a crime before you call us for some kind of a reference.

                                         And then finally is a crime watch mentality. So many of these people that you work with, your sponsors, your tractor dealers, farm credit, banks, have little notebooks and pens. Keep one in there. And when you notice something, whether it's a vehicle that you didn't recognize, jot down a date and what that vehicle looked like, if you could possibly get down a license plate number. If there's something you think, "I need to remember that." Then take the time to write it down. Because I do that all the time. I think, "Oh yeah, I need to remember that." And then 24 hours, I can't even remember what it was, much less when I was supposed to have remembered it from.

              Because we find that when we start into some of these large crimes... We had one with a guy named Roddy Pippen years ago up there at the Vernon area, started with one call. As we dug into it, over a period of about two months, we made over 50 felonies charged in nine counties of two states. And as we went back to investigate each of those individual crimes, consistently we found somebody that said, "Oh, I saw that pickup. Oh, I even met him and he showed me his driver's license and gave me some song and dance story." So if each of these people had actually written down all of these critical things and reported them, we might have stopped that halfway through this episode.

Kristen Brown:                So nothing is too small. If it seems odd, make a note, keep your notes together, and don't hesitate to call your Special Ranger.

Scott Williamson:           Absolutely.

Kristen Brown:                Now, with technology these days and different ways, you can monitor your property, I know some ranches can be in the middle of nowhere where somebody can be out on part of your property and you have no idea because it's miles and miles away. Is video evidence enough to convict someone and what is the process there of somebody being on property but having a picture and some kind of documentation?

Scott Williamson:           You actually bring up two different very important issues. One is to make sure that your property is posted no trespassing by signs, by purple paint, in the statute. While a fence in and of itself is considered notice, it is much easier in court if you have some of these other avenues of posting in addition. The cameras can be evidence in and of their selves, but there are many, many cameras out there now at a very reasonable price that you can go get a AT&T, Verizon sim card that you can put in those and they text you or email you those pictures immediately. Making sure that you put those cameras in a place that they're not easily visible, because they will steal the camera as well. But many times in those sim card cameras versus just a regular cam that you have to pull out the card to read it, it sent a picture many times before they can get to it.

                                         Putting those around gates, pens, or someplace that you can get a record of that traffic or a license plate or somebody actually trying to cut the locker or get into the lock on a gate is very valuable. We use those in and of ourselves just as Special Rangers if we're working a case where we suspect that there's traffic illegally in and out of a place to help us get more information.

Kristen Brown:                Well, that's really helpful to know. Is there anything else that you'd like our listeners to know today? Anything else that comes to mind either that we've discussed in the past or just something to keep in mind?

Scott Williamson:           I think one of the things that we can do that's the most important as an industry is one, think about where you leave property and just being cognizant of what's an easy access target. Is it behind a locked gate or is it out of view? Out of sight, out of mind has some truth there. But that crime watch mentality and a neighborhood watch mentality. One thing that most all producers have in common is they kind of know who their neighbors are. They know what their neighbors drive. I tell a story from when I was in Seymour, we had a terrific neighbor and he knew everything about our place and we knew everything about his. And he would call and say, "Hey, you left the tractor door open." Or, "Your front gates open, is there something wrong? There's a pickup. I don't know there." And fortunately most of that time were things that I was aware of and there was a reason for it. But that is the surest, fastest way to reduce crime is when everybody is aware and taking care of their neighbors as well as themselves and taking the time. In today's cell phone and texting technologies, we can all stay in touch nearly instantly, and that is a huge security net that we can all play a part in.

Kristen Brown:                Perfect. Perfect. So don't think of your neighbors as being nosy and don't hesitate to be a nosy neighbor.

Scott Williamson:           That pretty well sums it up.

Kristen Brown:                Perfect. Well, Scott, thank you so much for your time today and we appreciate it, and just appreciate the work that the Special Rangers do. And I just encourage our listeners to make that phone call to your Special Ranger. Maybe look up their phone number and have it in your phone ready to go, so then it's just easy to reach out and share information If there's just a sneaking suspicion that something seems off

Scott Williamson:           And that's true, they can go to the tscra.org website and say, "Find your Special Ranger." It'll come up with the map and pictures of their Special Ranger and their phone number so they can easily access it there, or they can just call into the office, the (800) 242-7820 Fort Worth office, and ask them to be forwarded to a Special Ranger, and they will get that note to the appropriate ranger and get them contact.

Kristen Brown:                Perfect. Well, thank you again, Scott.

Scott Williamson:           You bet. Have a great day.

Kristen Brown:  Thanks for listening today. We invite you to be part of one of our ranch gatherings and virtual ranching 101. For a full list of ranch gathering locations, ranching 101 topics, and just more information about cattle raisers, visit tscra.org or email events at tscra.org.