Behind the Gavel: Auction Secrets Buyers Need to Know – with Emma Brown-Garrett

Emma Brown Garrett, property auctioneer with over 20 years of experience in the industry, shares her journey from Bollywood acting to becoming one of Sydney's most respected auctioneers. She reveals insider knowledge about auction psychology, bidding strategies, and how to approach property auctions with confidence.

• Emma started her career in Bollywood films while maintaining her real estate license, using performance skills in her auctioneering
• The best auction strategy is starting with a strong opening bid and maintaining momentum rather than waiting until the end
• Around 60-70% of people who make the opening bid end up purchasing the property
• Auctioneers can read buyers' body language to determine if they have more money to give
• Having a buyer's agent represent you at auction provides strategic advantage and removes emotional pressure
• Waiting for an auctioneer to call "on the market" is an outdated strategy that often backfires
• The biggest mistake buyers make is not having a clear strategy before attending auction
• Showing up looking professional and confident can influence other bidders' perception
• Emotional bidding beyond budget limits is common and can lead to buyer's remorse
• During COVID, online auctions saw surprisingly high registration numbers and some unusual bidding behaviour

If you're looking to buy at auction or want to improve your auction strategy, you can find Emma online at menkwhite.com.au or on Instagram as Emma Brown Garrett.

Connect with Emma Brown-Garrett:

• LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/menckwhite
• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/emma_brown_garrett
• Website https://www.menckwhite.com.au/

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Emma's Unique Background
• 11:02 From Acting to Auctioneering
• 17:50 The Role of an Auctioneer Beyond Numbers
• 25:24 Reading Buyers' Body Language
• 33:43 Auction Strategies That Actually Work
• 46:12 Common Buyer Mistakes at Auctions
• 56:16 Memorable Auction Moments and Lessons
• 1:07:13 Final Thoughts and Future Episodes

Transcript

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:12

Hello and welcome back to the First Brick Property Podcast, where we equip buyers with the tools and insights to make smarter investment decisions. I'm your host, km, and today's very special guest has one of the most unique journeys in the real estate world. Emma Brown Garrett started her career in Bollywood, appeared in films and many films, and these days she's committing a very different kind of stage as a highly respected property auctioneer. With over 20 years in the industry, emma's approach to auctions is layered, strategic and full of nuance. She doesn't just call numbers, she reads body language, manages buyers emotions and sometimes even steps in to save a deal from collapsing. If you've ever felt confused or frustrated after walking away from an auction, this episode will give you the clarity and insider knowledge you've been missing. Emma, thank you very much for coming on today.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:59

Thank you so much. That's such an amazing intro.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 2:02

Thank you for driving all the way out to Southwest Sydney.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 2:05

Thank you, it's not hard for me. I'm an auctioneer. I spend most of my time in the car.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 2:09

Yes, Emma, our podcast is obviously made for buyers specifically. We have lots of people who sell that list, of course, but it's all about educating buyers on the process and how they can get into the market. I love that how they can buy their first property, typically their first investment, and in Sydney specifically, auctions are massive. Everything goes to auction.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 2:33

We have a very large auction culture here we do. And the buyers are actually quite auction educated too. They do know For sure.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 2:41

And I think they know because you know you've been on like 4 million podcasts before, so you're educating the country on how auctions work. But yeah, I think there's always new things we can learn. I'm always learning every time I go to an auction. This worked, that didn't work, as am I. Yeah, so thank you for coming on. I'd like to just start actually with your background, because it's so unique.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 3:07

It's so different. Right, it's very colorful.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 3:09

Yeah, I mean I had a strange background into getting into real estate. I mean I came from an optometry background.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 3:16

Oh, wow.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 3:16

It's not nearly as colorful as your background. So for anyone that missed that little bit in the intro or maybe thought I said something incorrect your background, you're an actor.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 3:26

That's correct.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 3:27

How did you go from? Well, tell me about Bollywood acting.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 3:31

So I actually started acting very young and I mean it was kind of all I ever wanted to do and I went to NIDA as a teenager and obviously just spent many, many years you know TV commercials and short films and theatre and things like that. But I also started real estate quite young as well, so I continued to act at the same time as also start my real estate career, which is, I think, now like 23 years.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 3:58

Oh my God, when I say that out, loud, it just scares me.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 4:01

But I always kind of had real estate as my little backup plan in case my acting career didn't work, and so I kind of chipped away at both for a while. And then my husband actually got an incredible opportunity to live and work in India, in Mumbai, and we jumped on the opportunity and I fell into Bollywood. I know that sounds silly, but I thought, well, why didn't I just get back into acting while I was in India? And so I landed an agent and you know, to be honest with you, I actually hit the ground running there. I was unique an.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 4:35

Aussie girl with very long dark hair and very, very white skin and they just loved my look and, I suppose, just a different nature of personality, and I ended up becoming quite successful and making a few very, very, very big Bollywood movies.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 4:55

Yeah, I was going to try and pronounce them in the intro, but as I got to I was like I'm going to stuff this up.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 5:03

So there's one film that we did in 2011, a film called Yamla Pagla Duvana. Yeah, and that was the highest grossing film of India in 2011. Oh, wow. So if you actually think about the numbers, I mean, I think at the time that we were living- there was like 1.6 billion.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 5:22

Yeah, billion is a B.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 5:23

That's exactly right. So you know, there's a lot, of, lot, of, lot of people in India and a lot of people saw the film and it was with a very, very, very famous actor and his son. So the Diol family, bobby Diole, sonny Diole and I think his name oh my God, I've totally forgotten the father's name.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 5:45

It's probably not this thing, so it's okay.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 5:49

So they're a very, very large family, and a very big family in Bollywood, so incredible. I just got to work with the most incredible actors and I mean to put it into perspective for the listeners. It's like making a film with Sean Connery some of the actors that I worked with, or Tom Cruise, or they're very, very, very famous.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 6:10

So if you walk down the streets of Mumbai, people will know you and jump on you. When I was there, I was very famous.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 6:17

That's amazing, so it was very difficult to come back to Sydney and then have to stand in a line to wait for a seat in a restaurant. Yeah, Do people know? Who you are, yeah exactly, but it was a fabulous chapter of my life.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 6:30

But I always, the whole time I was there, I kept my real estate license would you believe I studied and did my real estate license every year, renewed my license and did my CPD points, and so, in a way, I always knew that maybe that chapter was going to end and that there was something greater for me down the track. And I think, all of those acting skills and everything that you learn along the way and along your journey body language, tone of voice, projection of voice, public speaking all of that has ultimately led into my career as an auctioneer.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 7:02

So, I'm very thankful to have had that training and that experience. It's definitely made me the person I am.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 7:08

Yeah, I was going to say I mean Bollywood, out of all you know places to be acting. Probably a great transition to auctioneering right.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 7:17

It was really great. It's very loud.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 7:18

It's very bright. It's very bright and very loud.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 7:20

I also studied Hindi for the whole time that I was there and I mean it's not so great now, but there were days where I spoke no English and I think you know, for five years living there, I would speak English with my husband when he came home at night, but most of the time on set and my day-to-day duties and chores I spent speaking Hindi. So it was just an amazing chapter. It certainly comes in handy now when I have a lovely vendor who's Indian or has a heritage of an Indian background.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 7:54

It definitely comes in handy. And then they notice you. They're trying to bid, but they're like I've seen you somewhere I've seen you on a TV set. It doesn't make sense to me.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 8:01

It definitely comes in handy. They get flustered. Yeah, they love it. They just put some more $10,000 on top. Yeah, that's it.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 8:08

That's cool. So that's really cool. Thanks for sharing that. It's very unique. Definitely, I think, the most unique background.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 8:17

It's a little bit of fun, right? Yeah, for sure it's a little bit of fun.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 8:21

You've been in the game for over 20 years, like you mentioned. So how has that shaped your understanding of buyers and how they behave under auction conditions? You know the time spent in the industry. I'm sure you've learned a lot over the time. And in the industry I'm sure you've learned a lot over the time. I'm sure right at the start you probably had a perception, evan.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 8:39

Absolutely and today there's a different perception and you can understand people differently. How has being in the game for a period of time? Because a lot of people you know in buyer's agency. Right now there seems to be a huge influx of people becoming buyer's agents.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 8:52

Absolutely. It's a very smart thing to do if you're looking to buy.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 8:54

Yeah for sure, but the so we put up a job ad. I was telling you before and we've had over 50 applicants. That's impressive, it's ridiculous, and so many people want to become buyers, agents. But it's like going through like a phase, I think, where people think it's easy. They jump in.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 9:11

So when I started in real estate it didn't exist. I mean, obviously there was the odd person who was a buyer's advocate. You know that would actually help someone along. But interestingly, this is a really great question because over the time that I've had in real estate and all of that time I spent in sales I mean I did leasing and sales and lots of stuff before I became an auctioneer the way that I am with buyers now and what I've learnt about the buying process from being an auctioneer is next level, even just, you know, stepping out of that sales role and only working for the vendor.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 9:46

Yes, I still work for the vendor on the auction floor, but I also need to be able to relate to buyers when it comes to negotiation and when it becomes, when it comes to having discussions with them prior to the auction and you know buyers might call me and ask me what to do at auction. So I think having that relationship with them where I didn't really before, it was just like I was working for the vendor as a sales agent. And I think the second part of your question as well around you know, being a buyer's agent and that influx and is it kind of on trend at the moment. I think that we're very busy. I think that people I always have this thing that I talk about, where you get it's called this is, you know, my mind just goes blank sometimes, honestly, when you're.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 10:29

All of us. It's the bright lights, it's the bright lights.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 10:32

It's the bright lights when you have too much information and it's kind of an analysis, paralysis thank you, there you go, I had too many things analysis, paralysis, where you have so much information out there, and how do we filter all through that? So, having somebody that's on your side and also to guide you through that process, so you know, have you got your finances sorted, your pest and building inspections, your strata I think it can become very overwhelming for a buyer.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 10:59

And so to have somebody holding your hand and almost kind of like in your corner, making you confident and feeling good about what you're doing is bonus.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 11:09

Of course, it's like anything. I mean, if you ask me right now sell this property at auction as an auctioneer, I will crumble. I've never done it before. I'll be like all these people are looking at me.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 11:19

I have to remember these number.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 11:21

What am I supposed to say? Yeah, of course, and so if you have someone that's done it over and over again, absolutely, and you shouldn't have- to navigate it by yourself there's a lot.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 11:28

There is a lot to navigate, yeah, especially when it comes to the. I work with a lot of buyers agents and a lot of my close friends are actually buyers agents. The one thing that I've noticed where a buyers agent really comes into play for you is in the very end of negotiation. If you're buying something private treaty, I think having somebody there to guide you through what's the next steps putting a number on a contract, signing a 66W certificate, you know, which is a calling off certificate for your buyers who don't know, you know having somebody there to guide you through that is really important. So that's where I feel like, at the very pointy end of a sale and on the auction floor, having your buyer's agent bid for you.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 12:10

Imagine having somebody there to take all that stress away.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 12:13

For sure I mean sellers have been using help for years, right bid for you. Imagine having somebody there to take all that stress away. So for sure I mean sellers, uh, have been using help for for years, right with sellers, it becomes an all uh, it'd be very hard to sell if you're not selling every day you know what you do.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 12:23

Anybody can sell their own home, but I would never, ever, ever recommend yeah, a hundred percent you just it's too much work of course I couldn't.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 12:32

I would never sell my own home either. What a headache, to be honest. I'd like to transition into the actual auction process from your perspective. Yes, so a lot of people who are not in the industry or who've never been to auctions or just seen one on TV, for example, and they watched a block or whatever.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 12:49

Yeah, yeah, they think which is not a true representation of an auction. Yeah, yeah.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 12:53

Which is not a true representation of an auction At all at all, especially when you've got old mate Adrian just throwing extra zeros for fun.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 12:57

That happens at one of my auctions. There's no 3333333. Thank you. Dot 3-3, right, oh, kill me. That fell over the point. Kill me. I'd ask him to be removed actually.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 13:07

So that's a good point, right. So I'll get to that question actually a little bit later, but I was going to ask. So a lot of people who obviously just watch these things or are not sure they think an auctioneer. They just stand there, they just see all the numbers. Yes, obviously that's not the truth, no. So can you explain a little bit about exactly what your role is in total and what potentially people don't understand about your role?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 13:29

So I'm probably a little bit different than most auctioneers. So I actually like to be involved in the process from the sign of agency. So, as a sales agent, once you sign your agency agreement, if you're booking me as your auctioneer, I'm available for you to call the vendor and say welcome aboard. Congratulations on your choice of agent. He's a fabulous guy to work with, or she's an amazing agent and I can help you through those next four weeks of set to sell meetings, reserve meetings bad news that needs to be delivered about the market. I like to work with some of my agents throughout the entire campaign. So I think people want a little bit more now. I think people pay for service and they want you know, they want to get their money's worth right and they want to have more information is powerful. So working through a campaign with my agent up until auction day and the nicest thing about that is that when it comes to auction day, I've had two or three touch points with the vendor. They know who I am, they're not as anxious.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 14:36

They feel very comfortable with me, you know selling their largest asset that they'll ever sell. And it's just a breakdown of anxieties and everything just kind of washes away. So I think gone are the days of somebody just showing up two minutes before the auction, calling the auction and then leaving. I sometimes help my agents exchange their contracts, if they need it as well, and I'm also a great compliant tool.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 15:07

So if you have any questions throughout the campaign around. You know registrations or anything to do with compliance. Maybe somebody's buying a property in a trust or a super fund or something like that. So I think where I'm different is that I do like to get involved. Not all agents like to use that. Sometimes they just like to have the auctioneer show up, but definitely for me it's not just about showing up and calling numbers. I feel that I can add a lot of value into these businesses and provide support to agents around the auction process?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 15:40

Yeah, I mean that makes so much sense If I was selling my property. I mean, like you mentioned, typically people are selling the most expensive thing they own ever and people do it every like.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 15:51

I think it's like every seven to ten years or something like that.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 15:53

Yeah, it's not a common thing that you do. We do it every like. I think it's like every seven to ten years or something like that. Yeah, it's not a common thing that you do.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 15:55

We do it every day, correct, and I, you know, do 15 auctions a week. Yeah, and so for me it's second nature, right yeah?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 16:03

for sure. But if I was selling, I've got a relationship with my sales agent now.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 16:08

Yeah.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 16:09

And real estate is all relationships and this person is going to sell my property, I'm comfortable with them. But then if the auctioneer rocks up on the day and I've never spoken to, them, I'm like man. I don't know if this person is any good. I don't know what they like. I don't know what their style is. Do they care about me? Are they just here? So the way you're approaching it, I think, is amazing and makes so much sense. And I to all the auctioneers out there, something like that I just like the relationships.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 16:36

I like to get to know my vendors and I love the agents that I work with. So I just feel in those moments of negotiation, if you all know each other how much easier is it to seal the deal and have a negotiation completed if everybody knows each other and they're just more relaxed, like that's just my. My end approach to this and my final destination is if we're all comfortable, we can come to an agreement yeah, yeah, 100.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 17:04

I agree. So um, you're standing at the front, you're looking at all these people. What's actually running through your mind?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 17:11

as you're, as you're running an auction like are you?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 17:13

observing the crowd? Yes, absolutely.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 17:15

Usually I would have met the buyers beforehand. So I do really enjoy, you know, standing at the registrations, meeting the buyers, letting them feel comfortable. I introduce myself, I sometimes say to them.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 17:31

I look for an opening bid as a bit of a joke, and you know, we kind of have that uncomfortable wall fall down when I'm standing just about to start the auction. I do have a look at where people are positioned, monitor their body language, just get a sense of you know who's, maybe I think who's going to start the bidding. But as soon as we start the bidding and bidding starts to flow, you get a pretty good idea of you know who's bold, who's confident, who's nervous, who's scared. And I think that comes down to again we'll probably talk about this later but having a strategy, on auction day, for sure.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 18:05

Yeah, you actually mentioned so many things that I was like really interested in. I'm just going to ask the last one before I forget it because I've got to note it down you just mentioned. You know, you notice who's bold, who's nervous. Do you find there's a particular and I'm just curious, there's a particular personality trait that wins auctions more often? Or is it random, like, do the bold people win it more often, or do they start really strong and then kind of fade away and the nervous people kind of grow into it?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 18:32

or is it kind of random? I think it's random, but you can build a strategy for auction day regardless of your personality. That will push you towards success? Yeah, for sure. But I think if you are a bold and confident person, you're probably going to be more likely to come busting out of the gates so to speak and land that first bid versus somebody that's a bit reserved and shy, but it also really matters on who you take advice from with that as well, of course. Yeah.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 19:01

I mean we develop our strategies how we approach auctions, where we've been doing kind of the same thing for years and it works a lot of the time, I think at the end of the day auction if someone's got more money than you and they really want it and it's unpredictable in the moment, right, you never know correct, correct, um, but we read a stat.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 19:22

Well, I read a stat once about opening bid and I want to ask you about the opening because you mentioned a couple times how important is it for someone to make the opening bid from two perspectives? Your perspective as an auctioneer, like how important is it to just get it going?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 19:38

Just get it going.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 19:39

From the buyer's perspective. We read some data before that said. I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was like 60-something percent of people that make the opening bid end up purchasing the property. Yes, we always talk about this.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 19:52

It is a high percentage of people. If you start, you're more likely to finish. What that does come down to is that it does show confidence and you are very bold in that moment to start the auction. I think if you ask me about strategies starting first and starting at a very good level as well, it doesn't have to be your best bid obviously. It just needs to be a bid to get us underway, but it really does. Just, you cement your position and people think, wow, you know, and maybe they won't stop.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 20:27

You know, maybe this is they've come here today to purchase.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 20:30

Yeah.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 20:31

You've set your intention on the auction floor and it can you know, and it can put people off and, let's face it, it's a little bit of a psychological move that I've come to win today and I'm not leaving without it, even though their budget might not be there. Yeah, everyone's got a budget, Everyone's got a budget exactly, but I do enjoy, when I do call for an opening bid and we do start bidding straight away, the difference between an auction momentum and vibe compared to something that people just don't start bidding, it's very different.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 21:04

Yeah, there's been a lot of auctions that I've attended and it's just awkward. I'm very comfortable in that space, by the way.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 21:12

I often say on the auction floor if nobody's bidding, I can stand here. I'm very comfortable in the space. By the way, I often say on the auction floor, if nobody's bidding, I can stand here.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 21:17

I'm very comfortable in the uncomfortable but it's awful. But from an auction like for the vendors and from your perspective, it's very important to get that momentum going.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 21:26

It's very important. I actually do brief my vendors beforehand and I do say I often call for an opening bid and you will hear nothing. I said so, please, please, do not. It doesn't make any difference to the outcome. We just see a little bit of hesitation from buyers holding back. But if you have a great buyers agent, that's true, we usually make the opening bid right.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 21:48

You, I mean you really do, and I think again coming back to you know, having that support and having somebody there guiding you, there's no reason why you would sit back and wait when you've got someone there to bid for you yeah, for sure.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 22:00

And at the end of the day you can wait all day, but if you want to buy it, you've got to start bidding. I say this as well KM, I say we need to have bids for an auction.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 22:16

Like we cannot. You can't just stand in the crowd, but you know, ironically, everybody's waiting for somebody else to start and so you know you would have seen it a million times, nine out of ten times. As soon as somebody starts, the bidding just flows yeah, it's just that it's just breaking the seal, so to speak.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 22:25

You know there was a there was an auctioneer that I went at that there was an auction. There's a. Let me rephrase because I've forgotten how to english I like that.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 22:34

I've forgotten how to English.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 22:36

There was a particular auctioneer and I've been to a few of his auctions randomly, like it wasn't specifically that he just turned out to be the auctioneer at one of these auctions. And he said whoever makes the opening bid, there's a bottle of wine for you. Yeah, is that a common strategy in the auctions space? Because it's not a bad idea. Right, it's actually. It works, it does work.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 22:59

I work the whole city and there's a lot of places where they don't use it, but there's a lot of places where they do. I would go as far to say that not everybody drinks these days. Being sober is quite cool now, and so I think if you were going to start something like that, maybe even a gift voucher, or like a $50 Westfield gift voucher would just be bomb, wouldn't it?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 23:24

You know what I'm saying, even if I lose $50, right?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 23:28

I think there's a lot of people that still use it. But it is very enticing Ironically, it, but it is very enticing ironically. Um, when that does happen, it it's. It's not a it's not always an intentional bid, so somebody might place it just to get it, just to get it rolling? Yeah, I can't say that everybody that's done that and won the champagne has actually won the property as well.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 23:47

Yeah, I actually I think a lot of the time they don't, because they walk away with the champagne they walk away with the champagne. Yeah, they just away with the champagne. Yeah, they're just coming to watch. Exactly, they write their name down, so I wouldn't use it as a strategy.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 23:58

as an agent, I wouldn't use it as a strategy. But be mindful about the fact that not everybody drinks these days, so I would do a voucher, or I would do, you know, something else. That was probably a bit more appropriate.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 24:12

I was actually listening to you on another podcast doing my research.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 24:17

I'm glad you stopped me yes.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 24:19

And I heard you mention that you can tell when a buyer has more to give. Yes, so what are the specific signs that, because you know as a buyer's agent, you know I'm going to learn from?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 24:30

you, you'll learn yeah.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 24:32

How do I make sure you Giving my little tricks and tips away?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 24:37

This is a big thing about body language, right? So a lot of people ask what's the difference between an auctioneer right, so you can. There's a lot of auctioneers out there, lots and lots of auctioneers that you can choose from. But what separates the good from the great? A really great auctioneer will be able to read say, you've got seven bidders, I will be able to read. A great auctioneer will be able to read every single bidder on that floor what their body language is. Are they looking stressed? Are they looking nervous? Do they have more money? Was that their last bid? And what it does come down to is really their body language and how they move. So you might watch their shoulders slump forward, the expression in their face change. They become fidgety. They might turn to their partner for the first time throughout the bidding and start talking, discussing their strategy there, where they should have discussed it in the car beforehand. A classic one is like the paddle back in the bag or in the pocket.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 25:37

Sometimes it's a strategy. Sometimes people use that to make people think they're not bidding anymore. But you really can tell one thing around people that don't have any more money, but it's a very, very interesting talent to have to see when people do still have more to give and more to bid. And one of those things is obviously their body language and power and stance, but also the increments of what they're bidding in. And so if they're still bidding in $10,000 and $5,000, or perhaps even 25,000, you know that they haven't hit the bottom of their budget. And so you know there's no reason why you couldn't ask for more on the auction floor if you'd reached your maximum and everybody else had stopped bidding. It's the reason why we step off the auction floor and possibly ask for an increased bid if we are underneath our owner's expectations. As an auctioneer, you can feel in that moment if there's a little bit more to give.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 26:30

Sometimes you get it right.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 26:31

Sometimes you get it wrong, but um definitely always searching for that extra, I mean even another thousand dollars helps you know it's at solicitor's fees and every little bit helps on the auction floor.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 26:44

So yeah, for sure. Uh, there's so much that you've mentioned. I'm taking notes because I'll bring this all up in the strategy section I'm very excited to talk about it um, I, I guess my last question before we get into this strategy is just just off, that you know, because I think it's amazing. I, I think auctioneers are amazing, genuinely. Um, because when I go to an auction and I'm and I'm watching, or I'm bidding and I'm just thinking, man, how are you dealing with so much?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 27:09

like you're reading everyone's body language, you're and remember we talked about this, it's live. This is another thing too right, like I often joke with my girlfriends about how Saturdays like I did nine auctions on Saturday just gone yeah. And I often joke about how, imagine you started one and it wasn't going right and you just said okay, everybody stop, we're going to start again. You're going to give me those bids back again.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 27:32

Like it just doesn't work, like that it's, in the moment, right 100%. It's actually extremely impressive.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 27:39

I don't know, I can't find the words. Can we do this weekly? Can I come onto your podcast weekly? Yeah, of course I love you.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 27:44

We can change it to the property and auctioneering podcast. I wanted to ask so just on that is there signs as well that you see when people sometimes become you now know? That it's emotional bidding as opposed to strategic bidding.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 28:00

Yes.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 28:00

And there were some things you mentioned that I look for as well as a fellow bidder, but I'll let you take the lead.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 28:07

I sometimes, when I sell a property and the underbidder has stopped abruptly and they're not successful in winning the property, I sometimes step off the auction floor afterwards and I say to them I know you didn't win today, but I want to say congratulations for stopping at your budget and not buying with your emotions, because feeling remorseful about purchasing something is really really bad. Okay, it's all right to go over budget a little bit, but if you're fighting on the auction floor to win and you feel anxious and stressed and you purchase something and you blow on your budget, it's an awful feeling. And so I think knowing your limit and sticking to it, even though you might possibly lose at auction, it's not such a bad thing. Going away with regrets is awful, right? Yeah, for sure.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 29:03

And obviously at auction, like you mentioned, you sign a 66W. There's no cooling off period, which means you're buying this property, Correct? You're putting a 10% or 5% deposit.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 29:12

It's an unconditional exchange, you are there. Which is in Sydneyney. That's big money.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 29:17

Yeah, it's big money, so so you have to be sure, and so I mean when, when we're bidding, we're obviously looking at people to understand if, if they're out, if they're in, if there's more money and who's gone emotional. And the problem is when. When you've as a fellow bidder, uh, when you're competing against emotional bidders, well it's, it's almost impossible to compete because they've lost their head.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 29:37

They've lost their head.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 29:38

I went to an auction with my brother-in-law a little while ago a couple of years ago and he said can you come with me? I said do you want me to bid for you? And he said, no, no, I want to do it, but can you just come with me? I said, yeah, I can come with you, do this. For like, yeah, you should let me do it. Yeah, he goes, I know, I know, I just want to. I was like, yeah, sure, and we discussed the strategy beforehand. I said, okay, sam, this is what you want to do and this is how I would do it. And then um, and and I guess this is a transition to the strategy section and um, so this is how you want to do it, this is what you want to do and this is where you want to stop. Great, because this is how much money you have.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 30:11

Great, advice, advice and if you go past this, Fetty, your broker, who's a friend of the podcast, is not going to be happy.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 30:18

He's going to be calling you immediately.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 30:20

Yeah because you don't have the money. So if it gets to that point, just stop. It's not worth it, we'll find you another property.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 30:26

Yes.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 30:27

He said yeah. I said, are you sure you don't want to? Anyway, so it was Sam, my sister, mary, his kids and myself at this auction. I said to him man, an auction only needs two people to run. So our strategy, and I guess we're transitioning to the strategies. I like to start the auction and I like to run hard and fast to my limit. This is a good strategy, and then if I get to my limit and someone bids above me, it is what it is.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 30:53

That's exactly right, but the idea is, and what you were saying is you don't want people to think you're going to stop.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 30:59

Yes.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 30:59

And so when we bid, I could put a bid. As soon as someone else is bidding, I'm already bidding on top of them.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 31:04

Yes.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 31:05

Right, and I want the auctioneer to know I'm also, I'm here, I'm playing.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 31:10

I Get a buy, yeah, and take care of me.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 31:12

Don't take care of these people who are making your life difficult. I'm here, I'm forgiving your bids, I'm throwing money at you. And so he did the strategy we started, we got to a point and then the other bidder ended up becoming a two-horse race very quickly.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 31:27

Yes.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 31:28

Which is great, because he started so strong. I think it removed a lot of other people.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 31:32

It does, yeah, it does.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 31:33

And so it was a two-horse race and the other person was also him, his wife and his kids. The other person I was bidding, and we got very close to his limit and then the other person dropped the increments dramatically. It was like we're going up in 20s or 10s or whatever it was, and it went down to like one.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 31:54

So I looked at sam, I said sam don't bid one.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 31:58

If you bid one, we're just gonna keep going and going and going. Kill the auction, kill the auction. You've got space. Just chuck a 10, chuck seven, whatever just kill the auction no, no, bid one, one, one one oh, it's an auction, those ones went for. I don't remember the figure because this is years ago, but it was like thirty thousand dollars worth of ones.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 32:20

Eventually we got to his limit and I knew the other guy was at his limit because he started that one and he looked at his wife and did the whole and she's tugging his shirt like we don't have this kind of money and then so they've both gone emotional now and sam's looked at mary mary's looked at me. I said it's not my money. I can't tell you what to do, but you should stop. You need to stop you should stop, mary.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 32:38

Like you know, you're my sister, sam, you're my brother-in-law. You guys should stop. You don't have the money and but the kids looked at him. They're like, oh, dad, we really like the property. I was like that, sam, they're gonna like any property of course, and it's in the moment.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 32:50

Yeah, yeah they kept going back and forth and then I don't know how the increments went from one to fives, but I think they had both gone past their budgets. They both came emotional. Lucky for the vendor, the auctioneer was cheering at the end of it. Of course, crazy result Hit him by it because it was very clearly well past his budget. But that's just an example of how emotional auctions can get and how it can throw a fit of him. But how it could have been finished.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 33:19

It could have finished with his 10 because he'd set his intention. And if he'd done a 10, the other people would have turned around and said, well, he's got so much more money than us.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 33:27

Let's just not bid again.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 33:29

Interestingly in the $1,000 bids, people think that they don't know the impact of them. They don't set intention, they just go back and forth and they take a very, very long time and the irony is that you eventually get there with what you were going to spend anyway.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 33:49

It just doesn't show strength on the auction floor and it lets the other person in that you're competing against.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 33:55

It does because all of a sudden you become equal. The both of you have reached your budget. The both of you are now fighting it out, whereas if you show your hand of a larger bid, you show that I have infinite amount of money to spend and you will not beat me.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 34:13

So it's a good little strategy.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 34:14

But this is what I said to you before about how, if you, if you're going into an auction without a strategy, don't go to the auction.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 34:20

You need to have something prepared before you go there yeah, definitely, and I think reading the room is is really a big part of um being at an auction, because well you know if you notice someone's dropping their bids and whatnot, this is not the time to, because when someone drops it to 1 000 and you go a thousand, they think it's just another thousand. I'm at 1.7 million what's another thousand? Another thousand. You're absolutely right, but you chuck on 10 000, 7 000 whatever, it's a scary number now.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 34:49

It's a big number.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 34:49

It's a big number, but you've gotten to the 10 000 very quickly. One, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one one.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 34:53

Exactly, it doesn't take long, does it as?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 34:55

an auctioneer.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 34:56

surely you don't like ones Like how annoying are ones I don't like 500s oh yeah, I always have a joke that at my auctions, everybody gets one 500 or a bit, and that's it. So you can use it. Choose to use it when you like. It's like buying, yeah yeah, that's true, I mean I often say on the auction floor.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 35:13

If we are bidding back and forth, if we do the ones, we do them quick. You know they don't set intention. Something larger is better, you know. So you will hear me voice that on the auction floor. But obviously we work in the best interest of the vendor and the seller.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 35:29

But also I can refuse any bid that I don't deem in the best interest. And so if we are going back and forth in those ones, I mean I can refuse and just say, look, we're going to stick to the fives or the tens. You know, at the pointy end of the auction there I probably wouldn't. But if those $1,000 bids come too early in my auctions and any auctioneer you will hear them say that it's just too early for those increments. We are going to stay in those higher increments. We just want to push people towards home ownership. We don't want to give them the false hope at the beginning of the auction that you can buy it for this price you know so just on that.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 36:03

Um, I think a lot of people don't know that you can refuse it yes, you can do. You do you often because I've seen a lot of auctioneers refuse opening bids.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 36:13

Yes, yeah, especially opening, especially opening bids.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 36:15

Absolutely. Is that common practice?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 36:17

It is If we receive an opening bid that's below the guide and they've been very clear about where we're guiding and the auction guide we're going to push back, the only reason being is that it takes a very long time to get to where you need to get to. If we're starting really low and we're going in small increments.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 36:39

Nobody wants to be there for 45 minutes, it's just. It becomes very emotional. You become very lethargic. It's a very, very high energy, stressful situation. Nobody needs to be in that situation for 45 minutes. It's actually exhausting.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 36:54

It's exhausting.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 36:55

And you'll see a lot of people when they step off the auction floor. I mean they're emotional. Yeah, their cortisol is very high their adrenaline is absolutely peaking. I often say to people let the adrenaline settle, take a moment, have a drink and then come and do your contracts, and so pushing back on that opening bid if it's below the guide and it's just ridiculous and I always say like it's too optimistic you know, we're not selling for that price in the area.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 37:20

The buyer knows that, everybody on the floor knows that. So I will push back very politely. There's no place to be rude. But you know, we appreciate your opening start, but far too optimistic and you know, we all know what the property is worth here today and I'd like to meet you halfway. Or, you know, can you take me up to 1.8 or can we meet at the guide? Yeah, but there's a polite way to refuse.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 37:42

Yeah, yeah, of course I'm very polite on the auction floor. No need to get messy. No, because that person might end up having all the money.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 37:49

Well, that's exactly right.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 37:50

Yeah, Exactly right, yeah, okay, I've discussed my strategy and I was very nervous saying it in front of you because you're the auction queen. So what would you say? The best strategy is or if someone's coming in as a buyer and they go into auction for the first time or whatever, the 10th time they've missed out on nine properties auction. What's a good strategy? It doesn't have to be the best, but what's a good strategy.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 38:15

Most auctioneers would probably say the same thing, as most buyer's agents would have your strategy beforehand. Have a conversation with your buyer's agent. Have a conversation with your agent and decide what you would like to do. But in my opinion, if you want to hold the auction floor and be seen as somebody that's not going to back down, starting immediately with an opening bid and at the auction floor, and be seen as somebody that's not going to back down, starting immediately with an opening bid and at the guide, something a little stronger, something that says I've come today to purchase, I've come today to win, and starting straight away as soon as the auctioneer calls for an opening bid, you will find that it flusters a lot of people on the auction floor. It sets the tone for the auction that we're going to run with this. It's going to be fast, it's going to be quick, it's going to be high energy. I definitely think, if you start that, you've got a good option, a good opportunity there to hold the auction and to hold the momentum of the auction.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 39:10

Yeah, I mean, I agree, there's obviously a lot of a lot of people like the strategy of do nothing until right at the end.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 39:19

Do you know? I don't know if you saw that meme that was going around. I mentioned it in my last podcast where it said take advice from your agent when bidding at auction, not from your uncle that bid 10 years ago.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 39:32

Oh my God, that was like my favourite meme of 2025.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 39:36

Yeah, the advice that people get from people that have not participated in an auction recently, or a solicitor who might not like auctions, or a friend who was outbid 20 times at an auction do not take that advice from people? Standing up on the auction floor and not doing anything is a waste of everybody's time you can't win, we can't win.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 40:00

And also if you're sitting back waiting for the auctioneer to call on the market. This is another thing that you'll know a lot of as a buyer's agent that that language doesn't really exist anymore. So not a lot of auctioneers will say it's on the market. The agent might announce it when we're above reserve, but we will usually just say we're selling. Ladies and gentlemen, fair warning, we're going to be selling it to the highest bidder, and if you miss that, or if you're not educated enough around that language to selling, as you know, the contract can fall to the palm very, very quickly, and so if you're sitting back and waiting, you might miss it. I've been at auctions where people have missed.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 40:39

Yeah, I didn't realize we were selling. I didn't know it was on the market. Yeah, we'd have no obligation to call it on the market at all. Yeah, so we just need to announce that we're selling the property yeah, that, that was literally my next question.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 40:45

I was going to ask um people waiting for on the market. Obviously can fire, it can backfire it can backfire.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 40:52

It can backfire and it has. Yeah, and it does all the time.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 40:56

Do auctioneers do mention whatever wording do you say when it has passed reserve.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 41:04

Yes. So you must announce that it is selling, Some of the agents might come out and say emigrate user on the market. Yeah, but I think if you're going to go back, you know 10, 15, 20 years ago, when it was a big thing of like we're on the market ladies and gentlemen, we're on the market. It just doesn't happen anymore and, as you know, it's very subtle. It's very subtle and there are cues that you need to look for Again. Have a buyer's agent.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 41:34

Don't look for those cues for yourself. Hire a buyer's agent.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 41:36

Work with a buyer's agent because they know.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 41:39

I should bring you on every week. It's the best advertisement ever, but I mean it.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 41:43

Like why, in that moment, should you fit with everything that's going on? You're trying to buy a home. You might have family members there. Don't bring your kids to an auction. Don't do it. Leave them at home, get them babysat.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 41:55

Don't bring your wife, don't bring your kids, just go by yourself. If you're the wife, don't bring your husband. Exactly, correct.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 42:04

In that moment when you're trying to focus on everything and then you're supposed to look for the cues of when the property might be sold, or it's just a very difficult. It's a very difficult, it's a very high energy, difficult moment, right. So if you're sitting back and waiting for that moment, my advice to you is don't.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 42:21

Do you find buyers. Agents bring their clients with them to the auctions. Some that I work with do yeah, and it's perfectly fine and it's a great thing to do. It's a great thing to do if you have a little bit more money to spend, but you might not want to spend it, and so in that moment you'd like to win. And um, you know, you've got your client there and you quickly say well, look, do you want to put another 20 on top?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 42:39

yeah you know, are you happy to above, go above your, your limit? Yeah um, it, it's it, it happens. There's no ratio to when it happens or not. Yeah, some people bring them, some people don't yeah, we've done both.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 42:51

Typically it's just up to the buyer if they want to come or not.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 42:54

Sometimes they're so nervous they don't want to be there.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 42:56

Yeah, we've had a few that sit in the car.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 42:58

Yes.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 42:58

Like they're straight away.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 43:01

On FaceTime around the corner, correct? Well, you do need them to sign the contracts, right?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 43:06

Yes, and we've had some standing right next to us and some that stay at home and then we get authority to sign on their behalf in the meantime, until they, yeah, sort it out. Um, yeah, it's just curious. What? What do you think the biggest mistake buyers make at auctions besides? Well, actually not bidding?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 43:23

my biggest thing is not having a strategy yeah I really mean that. I think, um, if you're showing up with no idea what to do and you think you can just wing it, you cannot wing an auction. You have to have discussions about what are we bidding, how are we bidding? The discussion around what increments we'll bid in. Should we bid in 10,000? Should we bid in 25? Should we bid in 50s?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 43:48

Yeah.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 43:49

That discussion alone is so valuable. Do we bid straight away after another person's put a bid in? That's a big thing for me.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 44:00

You want to show your place on the auction floor.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 44:02

I always say there's a quick retort's a good retort Immediately.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 44:06

Yeah. The second, before the numbers have even left the other bidder's mouth Literally what I told my clients.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 44:12

It is such a smart strategy. You know buyers, you've got to have discussions with your agent. You've got to have discussions with your buyer's agent. You've got to be showing up on auction day with a plan and three or four scenarios. Okay, well, what if there's two bidders? What if there's, you know, four bidders? And also, what if we're the only bidder? Too, so again, all those discussions that you have beforehand will only increase your chances on auction day.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 44:41

Yeah, how do you appreciate or not appreciate the random increments? Everyone's going up in 20s and then someone's giving you $27,325.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 44:53

So you can do this at my auctions, because we actually train for those numbers. So, my team and a lot of other auctioneers I work with. We have a small fraternity where we do auction competitions. So, anybody out there that's wondering what an auction competition is? We all meet all the auctioneers around Australia once a year compete for a championship called the Australasians and you call a mock auction and the increments and the numbers are diabolical.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 45:24

I mean it is mathematics at its absolute best Seventeen and a half and thirty half and 36 and one eighth of a million and don't even get me started. So if you're coming to an auction of mine and you want to throw me a 27, 750, you know like it, just just go for it. It's. It's not a great strategy.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 45:45

It doesn't really get you anywhere. All it does is make everybody else flustered on the auction floor as well. Remember that bidders are also tracking the numbers right, and so it won't help you win the auction. If you're confusing the auctioneer. That's not going to help you win the auction. That's irrelevant.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 46:01

But if you feel like you would like to do that, I just want to throw one out there, but it doesn't Remember.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 46:10

We also have a scribe with us too and the agents will assist us.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 46:11

So um yeah but it doesn't. It's not a good strategy no, the I I think, like as you've mentioned um a few times, and the best strategy is is going in strong, yes, showing your intentions. Do you find that placement makes a difference, like where people stand?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 46:29

Yeah, this is a really good question.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 46:30

Because I have a place that I like this. I like this, yes.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 46:34

I like this. Yes, I do actually it doesn't have to be front and center, but visible.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 46:40

Yeah, hiding behind trees. Actually I saw one the other day where the buyer, he was a real estate agent, actually he was buying this property and he was behind the tree and I couldn't find him. Every time he placed a bid I couldn't find him and I was like leaning around. I was trying to get him from behind the tree and I had to confirm his beard several times because I couldn't see him and I couldn't see his paddle and of course, as you know, you've got to put your paddle up when you take a beard when you place a beard.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 47:14

I need to verbally hear it and I also need to see it. That obviously solidifies the number that's being called out. But yes, I think visible doesn't have to be front of the class. Yeah, and you know, yeah, I always have a thing where I say to to buy. Is that also? Just look nice wear something.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 47:34

Nice dress. Don't come in your pajamas, Don't be angry. Yeah, Look nice dress nice. I know, I know this is really silly, but um, I think the way you show up on auction day can also influence, and so I think, if you're dressed really lovely. It doesn't have to be a dinner suit but, if you look really respectable and you look like you're about to own the property. I've always thought that, but then I'm not the girl to ask, because I dress like one I go to.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 47:59

Woolworths. Yeah, fair enough, I've always got my lips on or a jacket.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 48:08

But you know, I if in that moment, if you, can um you know dress well, feel good about yourself and feel confident. You know stepping out and and going to the auction definitely yeah, I think the placement is is is equally as important I like to stand next to the auctione not not right in the front. I can't wait. I can't wait until you and I are bidding with each other. I can't wait. I can't wait until you and I are bidding with each other. I can't wait.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 48:29

It'll be fun, not right next to the auctioneer, but like at the front of the group.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 48:33

Now that you say that, actually, I've noticed that a few buyers agents often stand on the side of the auctioneer. So, I mean picture a semicircle.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 48:41

That's where we're at right, so we're in a semicircle.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 48:49

I'm in the center and I've got my buyers around me.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 48:50

I have noticed that buyers agents sometimes like that yeah, corner position yeah, you know, I, I think it's, I, I, I think the idea is that um, firstly, we want everyone to see us because we also want to look pretty and yes, of course, do you have branding on?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 49:02

do you wear your I'm?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 49:03

everywhere you wear your first brick. I like this. I only have branded clothes.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 49:06

I like this. This is good.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 49:07

I actually was somewhere the other day and someone said to me do you own? I said no, I just own branded clothes Like you don't own anything else. I was like no. Everything, literally says, first brick on it.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 49:18

I like this.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 49:19

But no, I think it's to make people, it's to let people see you. Yes, and when you're bidding confidently and quickly and strongly, because our strategy is obviously, as the other person is bidding, like you said, before they've even finished, we've already bid above you and so it's to give the idea yeah, these people have deep pockets or unlimited pockets, and they're just going to buy whatever?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 49:40

Yeah, why not? Yeah, Every little bit of strategy helps right.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 49:44

How do you find phone bidders?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 49:50

bit of strategy helps. Yeah right, how do you find um phone bidders? So usually when we do phone bidders, the agent is um. A lot of the times the agent will be bidding on behalf, but you know also um there are some people that come and register on behalf a family member.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 50:02

Um, it's tough with phone bidders because if you do need to pause and you do need to kind of have a discussion of whether they're going to bid a little bit more, I have noticed that often people in the crowd become very frustrated because they don't know.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 50:19

There is one thing that I want to let your viewers know as an auctioneer, we have to cite every bit of piece of paper and document that comes through around people that are registered to bid. I will cite every registration. I will cite every driver's licence, including the people on the phone.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 50:35

Yeah.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 50:36

So for those people out there, nobody's making anything up. Yeah, there's no dummy.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 50:40

There's no smoke and mirrors anymore.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 50:42

Yeah, we don't engage in dummy bidding. If I at all feel that there's an inkling of that on my auction floor, you will be removed from my auction. I've worked really hard to keep my licence and to function in this sector that I wouldn't jeopardise that. So a lot of buyers sometimes might think that, well, are they real?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 51:03

I mean, you would have had this conversation before. They're real.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 51:07

The auctioneer must cite all of their identification before we start bidding, and so I can guarantee you 100% of the time. If the agent is standing on the left side of me and they're holding a paddle and they're bidding on behalf of somebody, there is somebody on the other end of that line.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 51:23

Yeah, people are really scared of auctions, you know I know they are and people like. We get the question all the time how do we know there's not a dummy bidder, or or the agent doesn't have a mate? They're bidding. I said well, because if that mate ends up on the top, what are they going to do? Right, well, exactly it just doesn't?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 51:40

I think it it look if it's happening out there and I think I might have talked about this on my last podcast. Actually, if it's happening out there, I'm not aware of it yeah and you know, look, sometimes somebody will show up in a jacket and sunglasses and a scarf and a hat and all that kind of stuff and look, look, try to look a little bit incognito maybe I'm suspicious, but at the end of the day you have to register you have to show your driver's license and let me tell you if, let me tell you if that's your strategy and you're sending somebody to bid at auction and it goes awfully wrong and they end up buying the property, I will sign that contract on their behalf and I'll see you in court.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 52:17

Yeah.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 52:18

So there's repercussions, correct? Yeah, of course.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 52:22

It's not just fun and games here, Play silly games, win silly prizes.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 52:26

That's true, you know. I think the days of dummy bidders are definitely out. It just doesn't exist anymore, maybe it does.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 52:33

Maybe I don't know about it, maybe I'm being naive, but in my world I would like to think that the agents I work with are extremely professional and they will not engage in that I mean you've obviously been to a lot more auctions than I have. But I haven't seen anyone that I would suspect was a dummy bidder I've never encountered a dummy bidder in my in my career yet before I move on to the next section, I just had I don't know.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 52:55

You said something and it triggered a funny thought in my mind um, have you ever seen people, just just in terms of strategy and like trying to intimidate, yeah, the other buyers, people like rent fancy cars parked right at the front? Because I've seen it.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 53:12

Oh my God, this is taking strategy to the next level, Genuinely.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 53:15

I've seen people rent really, really expensive sports cars and show up a little bit like not late, They've obviously registered, but they'll like drive around like they'll go to the corner and they just pull in and they'll come up just before the auction starts, like oh my god, I want to meet these people.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 53:29

Who are these people? They're just, I don't know, they're just random people.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 53:32

Well, actually, it does come back to my point of showing up looking good, yeah right that's what yeah I does it work I look the times that I went they were competing against me so it didn't work.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 53:49

It didn't work, of course, because they didn't have a buyer's agent. Because they didn't have a buyer's agent, but they tried everything else. I can see why it could work but I think it has to come as a package you can't do that and not bid till the end?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 54:00

Well, that's exactly right.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 54:01

Okay, so for people out there that are renting sports cars to bid at auction, I mean, first of all, if that's your strategy you've come up with, you know, I'm going to have to commend you. It's a big commitment, it's all in, but then go all the way in Correct. So you know, start your bidding straight away, bid in your large increments, you know, and first of all hire a buyer's agent to do it for you and stand next to the buyer's agent, stand next to the car with the buyer's agent.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 54:25

get the buyer's agent to bid for you and then give the card to the buyer's agent.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 54:27

That's exactly right. Go all in. Don't just go halfway. If that's part of your strategy, go the full way.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 54:33

Yeah, for sure, I'll ask you a few quick ones, because I've taken way too much of your time.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 54:39

No, not at all.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 54:47

You know I could sit phone somewhere and so it's ringing, but I don't care, I'm having a good time. How have you seen the changing market conditions affect the way auctions are run? Because obviously rates go up, rates go down things change the economy, depression, whatever recessions, and all the rest terms that people throw around without really understanding it. How does it affect? How have you seen it affect auctions and does it affect the way you run the auctions? How have you seen it affect auctions?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 55:06

and does that affect the way you run the auction? These last six to 12 months, where we've had a lot of uncertainty in the market, rate changes and you know obviously what happens in America affects us as well, and this anxiety around where we're heading. The one thing that I've noticed which disturbs me and bothers me is that buyers are showing up to auction. Sometimes they're not even registering.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 55:30

There's interest in the property and they show up to auction day just to wait to see what happens, or they register and they sit back and they do nothing. And I think it bothers me because you know we're we're providing this incredible transparent environment for you to buy and yet you're still holding back and you're still sitting back and waiting to see what happens after. And often it's just that's not a great strategy either, right?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 55:57

I'll just wait until the property passes in, and then I'll negotiate afterwards. Nine out of ten times you don't end up winning the property.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 56:04

There's no control.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 56:05

There's no control With the auction process. You can hear competition and see competition and everyone's there and it's all very transparent. And then what's the point of going behind closed doors and having an auction after an auction?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 56:16

To me.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 56:16

I don't understand that, but that's the thing that I've noticed the most is that there's also a real wall that comes between the buyers and the agents and this you know, not disclosing information about their current situation or not having open conversations with them about where they want to be. Yes, the agent works for the vendor, but they're also there to help you buy yeah so you know you can talk with them and and ask them for advice, and.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 56:42

But definitely the thing that bothers me is that people show up and they just don't engage at all.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 56:47

Yeah.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 56:50

I don't know why you would come to an auction if you were interested and not register and not express your interest. Yeah, I've really seen a lot of that. And actually this Saturday just gone I had a few auctions where that happened and I just wanted to go over and say to them just register.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 57:05

Yeah.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 57:06

Okay, we might only have one bidder, but we can negotiate here on the auction floor. We can help you buy this property.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 57:13

Help me, help you. It's one of my favourite sayings in the world Help me, help you. It's true, though it's true. What's your take on underquoting? Is it still a problem from your perspective?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 57:28

sorry um on the ground, do you? I mean, I brought this. I have this question because I I went to an auction um three months ago for a client, um, and she's had a tough few years, um, things have gone poorly in her life and so this was like her thing right, like we were buying. And I don't do unoccupied purchases, we only do investment purchases.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 57:52

Investment purchases, but for her I made an exception because she had purchased before investments.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 57:58

But this was like she wanted to buy her home.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 58:00

She wanted to buy a home.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 58:01

And like I had a relationship with her and she's very like, she's just a lovely person.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 58:06

Yeah, I had a relationship with her and she's very like she's just a lovely person.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 58:08

Yeah, you wanted to help, I wanted to help, yeah. And then so we did our due diligence on a property. She finally found something she liked and this is why I don't do it on occupied properties, because it takes too long but she finally found something she liked. We did the DD. I spoke to the agents countless times. Everything seemed in order. We get to the auction and it's like chalk and cheese, like where the reserve was. Obviously I don't know for sure, but I was listening to the words and the cues. Yeah, where I believe the reserve was and where I ended up selling was way above what they were quoting way, way above.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 58:41

Do you, do you find that under quoting still happens? Or I think it happens and I think it should.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 58:48

I think you need to be very mindful of what type of a business you're running. Remember that you know you can lose your license right.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 58:54

Of course I mean it's an offence.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 58:57

I think if you are putting a property in a market that you're not sure and you might start with your guide quoting low you must amend that throughout the campaign. You have to amend it. You have to be very careful what you say to buyers at your open for inspections and I think misleading people it's just not cool, right.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 59:20

I mean we're all here, we're all just working. We just want to get along. We just need to work with each other. It doesn't do you any justice and, quite frankly, as I talked before at the beginning, that buyers are very educated now. You know 15, 20 years ago you, you really needed advice from your agents. But buyers can go out now and they can. There's a plethora of information online for them. Yeah, they don't always need that, and so, when it comes to being reported, people will also report agents.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 59:50

They will.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 59:51

If they feel that they've been misled or they've just not had a trustworthy conversation with an agent, they will pick up the phone and they'll report you. So be very mindful of the end result of that. If you do feel that you know you've having feedback that's above your guide guide, just amend it, just amend it yeah, simple as that last couple questions um.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:00:14

So just some stories and real, real world lessons I guess, what's one of the hardest or more memorable auctions you've had to call and um. Are there any lessons for buyers from any of those situations?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:00:28

Oh my God, there's so many auctions.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:00:34

I think one of the hardest, some of the hardest times I have on the auction floor is when people are very emotional. And so in that moment I did one years ago with a girl that was heavily pregnant and she was very emotional and she was really really wanted this property and they were there. They were, you know, it was just a couple of people bidding at the end and, um, you know, I did a couple of trial closes and was threatening to sell and and wanted another bid and and was pushing for people to keep bidding, obviously working on behalf of the vendor, and she got really upset and she needed more time to make a decision and I stopped the auction. I just stopped it and I walked off the auction floor and I went over to her and I said take the time that you need, just take a breath. I will give you the time.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:01:24

I apologise to all everybody. I said you just have to wait, she needs to make a decision. But she was really worked up. I said to her just take a breath, take a moment, let me know if you want to place another beard.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:01:35

She got herself together, she bid and she won yeah she was like over the moon that I had given her that time and that little bit of empathy that came with that, and so it's in those moments where people get very upset and they're very flustered. That's hard because you want to make the situation better, and I do struggle a little bit with that.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:01:55

I'm like oh, I just kind of want to fix it.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:01:57

I want to make everyone feel comfortable.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:01:59

you know I want to go to your auctions. It's so nice.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:02:03

I am a nice auctioneer.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:02:04

It shows the value of having a good auctioneer on your side, because someone else may have just sold it.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:02:11

But maybe that's also my female touch.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:02:13

I have two children.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:02:14

I have been heavily pregnant twice and I know in that moment you know you're full of emotions and running through your hormones and she just needed a moment and a lot of people just need a moment, and maybe that's something that I can offer that not a lot of people just need a moment and maybe maybe that's something that I can offer, um, that not a lot of other people can, to be honest when you started the story with, we had someone heavily pregnant I thought it was going a very different direction.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:02:38

I have no experience in delivering children. I might have done it twice.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:02:41

This is a crazy story why haven't you led with this?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:02:47

but I do think um, people want a little bit more now right they do want a bit of empathy on the auction floor. They don't want to be yelled at yeah they don't want to be told off. Yeah, um, and I would like to think that I'm paving the way for auctions to be just that little bit better. So if I can do something a bit different on the auction floor, I mean, I have a lot of people come up to me afterward and say, oh my God, like you're amazing.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:03:10

We've never seen a female auctioneer before.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:03:13

Um I.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:03:14

I I love what you're doing.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:03:16

It was.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:03:17

I've been to thousands of auctions and I love the way you conducted it and I think also at my auctions. I'm very explanatory and so whatever's happening on the auction floor, I will explain that to you. Whether we're pausing, whether we're negotiating all of that kind of stuff where sometimes I think people are getting a bit tired of just having numbers yelled at them.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:03:38

That's a great point. Actually Not something I thought of, but, as you mentioned, I just quickly did a run back. I was like yeah, I don't know if I've attended too many auctions where the auctioneer was a female. Yeah, there's not many of us.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:03:52

There's a couple of fantastic women out there when it comes to auctioneering. Actually, I probably should research it, but I mean, clearly, I'm just an auctioneer. It doesn't always have to be female you know, but we definitely do a little bit differently and I like the fact that sounds more fun there's.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:04:10

There's young girls reaching out. Now it's a whole. It's a whole bollywood uh movie. Um, if someone wants to become an auctioneer, yes, how do they become an auctioneer?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:04:20

uh, there's actually lots of great pathways for you to become an auctioneer. You can call me.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:04:26

Yes.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:04:27

You can Um some. I just when I started I I actually just worked with a fabulous mentor and he trained me up. And then the real estate Institute in New South Wales and throughout the country as well, in different States they offer programs for you to um, to do an auction, competition and you kind of graduate through these processes and just training with great auctioneers is one way to become an auctioneer. And just set yourself up in an environment with other great auctioneers and train and, you know, become the best version of yourself.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:05:03

Yeah, cool. Last question yes. What is the wildest thing someone's ever done at an auction that you've conducted?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:05:10

Oh, my God, the wildest thing. Well, you know I get asked this question a lot, but the times for me that really stood out was during COVID, when we were conducting online auctions and I couldn't believe how many people would sit down in front of the camera. So we use the Zoom platform because we like to see the, we like to see the buyers, and so we would have an entire, you know, screen full of 20, or we had a really high registration numbers during.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:05:39

COVID, by the way, like we, would.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:05:40

Sometimes we would have 15, 20 people registered at these auctions. I don't know what it is. It's like people were happy just to not to leave their living rooms.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:05:47

Yeah.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:05:47

They were happy just to register.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:05:48

Yeah, we really did. We had high registration numbers.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:05:52

So we'd have a screen full of Zoom buyers and we would do an introduction and then we would come on and we would start the auction. The amount of people that sat down in front of their camera with a bottle of wine or a six-pack of beer was unbelievable.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:06:08

It was reality TV live.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:06:09

It was reality TV live. I couldn't believe. And then I was really like, oh my God, these people are like bidding drunk, yeah, and you know you can't legally, you're not really supposed to sign a contract drunk right Like you're not actually allowed to.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:06:24

You have to be capacity yeah, you have to be capacity and you know I would notice that there was banter between other buyers and just in general, I think everybody was in their safe space at home so they felt that no one could touch them, no one could do anything. And anyway that for me, during COVID I was shocked at how many people drank while they were bidding online.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:06:46

That's funny, I mean.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:06:47

I just. That for me was just like.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:06:50

That's pretty crazy.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:06:53

Imagine showing up on a Saturday auction with a six pack of beer and just putting it on the ground, popping them open and drinking while you were bidding yeah, and then the bids get more wild. Well, you'd just be asked to leave immediately. Yeah, that's true?

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:07:02

Yeah, you would. That is quite wild, um, emma. Thank you very much. This was really cool um, thanks so much. I have like three million more questions, but just ask me back, yeah yeah, we'll get you back 100 for episode two and and um, obviously a lot of our listeners are buyers but we have a lot of the sellers that listen and we actually have heaps of real estate agents that listen yeah, great so obviously anyone listening to this wants to use your services absolutely how do they find you?

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:07:31

you can find me online on our website menkwhitecomau um. I'm on instagram, just google me. Emma brown garrett um. I'm a real estate agent. My phone number's all over the internet. You'd never you can always find a real estate agent's phone number. But you know, don't hesitate to give me a call if you want a strategy for auction or you're just an agent who's looking to call better auctions and actually have a really great business that runs really great auctions. I can help you do that.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:07:58

And we'll put all your details in the show notes. If anyone's looking, and so we have a new thing in the show notes. It's called Fan Mail. There's a link at the top of the show notes and it'll send you to your text messaging app and you can send through your questions. Yeah, please do so we'll gather all your questions and we'll bring you back round two when you're ready. And, if anyone was wondering, it was called Yamla Pagla.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:08:21

Yamla Pagla Duvana.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:08:22

Yes, get your Bollywood tonight. Everyone Nirvana.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:08:25

Yes, get your Bollywood tonight.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:08:26

Everyone knows what they're doing tonight Everyone's going to be Googling Friday night plans Googling.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:08:33

You're going to have a random spike in viewership from Australia for tonight.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:08:35

Thank you, for asking about my Bollywood career. Thank you for sharing.

Emma Brown - Garrett: 1:08:36

It's my little dark secret that hovers in the background. Thank you for sharing.

Kyrillos Mansour (KM): 1:08:40

No, it was really, really wonderful. I appreciate it, and