John Gennaro started his business in 2003 with just himself and a truck. His wife did the books at night while she worked a full-time job. Today, Gennaro has around 70 trucks in the field and more than 100 employees. He talks about how growing as a leader means finding and scaling efficiencies, whether it’s a business practice or the way your people operate.
John Gennaro started his business in 2003 with just himself and a truck. His wife did the books at night while she worked a full-time job. Today, Gennaro has around 70 trucks in the field and more than 100 employees. He talks about how growing as a leader means finding and scaling efficiencies, whether it’s a business practice or the way your people operate.
Hi, this is Jack tester and welcome to another episode of leadership lounge. It is pitch dark outside. It's early in the morning. It's actually six 30 in the morning and it's right before our marketing planning workshop here in st Paul. And sitting across the desk from me is John Janero. How are you doing John? Good. Doing great. This morning you came into attend our marketing planning workshop and I saw you on the registration list and I said, alright, I got to talk to John. Yeah, this should be fun looking forward to, well you'll, you'll uh, you'll enjoy the class for sure. A couple things, you know, you just are coming onto our board of directors as well. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. You haven't, you haven't sat through your first board meeting yet, so you're still new, but uh, the membership elected you last month and uh, thank you for that service. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Very cool. Looking forward to it. Well, I want to talk about your business, your journey. We went through some interesting things and some good things lately. But why don't you tell us first about your business today, where it is kind of a, give us a sense of scale, sense of place. Yeah. So today we have, um, just over a hundred employees. I think it's, um, one Oh four, somewhere in that range. And we are, uh, plumbing and HVAC. We started the business in 2003 and just focused on plumbing. I have a plumbing background, so started with a one truck 2003, just doing it, just me doing it. My wife had a full time job and uh, at night she'd do the books and I just, I ran calls and you know, started it right at the ground and now we have somewhere around 70 trucks in the field and um, about, uh, 35 people in the office. Okay. And we're building a new facility and getting ready to, um, you know, take our, our journey to the next level, which our team's looking forward to. So we'll go from art's 6,000 square foot facility to a pretty packed in there right now. We're pretty stuffed in there. Yeah. Yeah. We have an offsite where we do training, so we have to walk down the street to go to a little office to do a little training. So we're looking forward to a nice, a nice big new facility that we can do training in house and just some cool stuff coming up. And you served the Tampa market, right? We do. We're in the Tampa market. Right. And how'd you come up with the name red cap? Um, red cap came in because I was, uh, our original corporate name was plumbing solutions of Tampa Bay and I was running calls still on a truck and I was running callbacks for another company that had a similar name and I just refuse to allow anybody to think that we weren't gonna do our call back. So I would run the call back for the other company. And um, I even though you were doing it just to keep your name good, I was doing it to keep my name good. I was well as you know, three, four trucks, they were about the same size and they weren't running their callbacks. And so I was like confusing you with them. They were, they were, um, a, uh, had an a in front of the same name. Okay. Got it. So the old page name, there was just a challenge there and um, I just refused to start out where we weren't gonna take care of the customers. So I was running the callbacks for them and it was late at night. I had a maybe 10 o'clock at night and I had a red ball cap on. Um, I was running in and out of a house and had that old mirrored like seventies wall, you know where they stick all the mirrors on the wall? Yeah. Oh yeah, sure. Right, right. And issue walk into four year of the house. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm flying by that and I, I used to have a motto I would run when I could run and, and walk when I needed a walk. So I would, I would really hustle from the truck to the house and then I'd get to the door and then I'd go into slow motion so that customer and see me running around, like I didn't have a plan and, and it would catch my eye. I mean, so it would catch this, this hat would catch my eye and I look over and it's like, that's my hat. I jumped in the truck after that call and I called my wife and, uh, it was probably 10 o'clock at night and I said, Hey, we're putting red cap service guaranteed on top of all the trucks, big banner on all the trucks. At the time, I think we had three and, um, we put the banner on and we then we started getting checks for red cap plumbing people right at the checkout. So they were riding the checkout to that? Yeah. Okay. Um, because I had put red kept service guaranteed on everything and that was standing out more than the name. Um, so at that time I was in a QSC somebody had a logo that I liked that I thought would work well. Yeah. And I, um, went to visit them and, and, and I sat down and I said, Hey, can I use your logo? And it's a red cap logo or something or they had a, it was, um, red carpet and it, it just, the layout worked and had a little guy in the middle and it was similar to what I had, but I could just insert red cap and it was plumbing and I could just go to town. So that was the original. Um, so we DBA dad up until we started HVAC, um, almost four years ago now. Okay. Well that's as, I didn't know this, you can talk about this, but that's cool. I could end a, you are running from the truck to the house, like a fitness guy or is it a no, it was like a, uh, I have a lot to do. Guy wasn't a fitness, I wasn't my module then. It was, you know, I, I have to get stuff done and um, anywhere I could pick up efficiency. I was, I was picking up efficiency, so that's very cool. I would hustle anytime I had a chance. Well, so you were uh, uh, you know, a plumber obviously I think probably a really good one. And you started in the field, you grew your business, you are close to that trade. How big did plumbing get in your business? I want to talk about that cause I know you then got at HAC and I think there's an interesting story in that ad, in that trade ad for you. So tell me about your, your plumbing journey, how that kind of grew and kind of where it got too. All right. Yeah, I guess if you go to, I mean I did plumbing in high school, so in the summers I would do plumbing and then um, I got into ditches and was working after high school. I went to college. It wasn't quite the college guy. I worked in the plumbing department in college and um, just was a hands on guy, you know, it wasn't a book guy and I had the opportunity later to go into the service industry and it really, really enjoyed the service industry. I'm a, I like to mow the lawn and see the lawns cut when I'm done. Like, I like that, you know, quick satisfaction of getting something done and it just fit perfectly. So I was really a good troubleshooter and I was able to communicate that well. So the trade just fit. And at the time I didn't want to go into business. I wanted to actually be the service manager for the small company I was with. Kay. And the guy that, um, had brought me up in the trade, which had taught me really, really, you know, he taught me how to really work hard and I really respected him. He, the owner had to pick between he and I cause there just isn't another spot and a small business and he made the right choice. You picked, um, Paul IAZ, which was the guy that I had worked for since I was young. Yeah. And there wasn't another spot and I had maxed out at that time what you could make. And I just told my wife, I think I was in my early thirties. We were just starting a family and I'm like, I have to move now. Yeah. Or I won't have a chance. Um, and I think when you talk about the levels of leadership, naturally it was easy for me to move into that role. I was a really good tech. I was really efficient. I learned how to make guys efficient. Um, so all the way through growing the business, it was really easy to grow the plumbing part because I drove all of that. So probably to a fault, I think we were over$5 million before I brought anybody in to start helping with that process. Even in doing any service management, even service management, you just have a really good manager. Yeah, I just, um, you're running all the time. I was running all the time. I mean, I, I to get myself out of a truck work truck, I bought a truck and parked it at my house and still worked inside the, you know, still was in the work truck for two months until I just said this, you know, this is ridiculous. Like you gotta make that move. I just always felt good about having my hands in there and making things comfort, like a security blanket or something like that. Well, you know, when you're, when that's what you're good at. Yeah. You tend to, you tend to lean towards that. So I wasn't, um, I wasn't a book guide in like to sit and read, so I had to kind of start learning how to do that. But we, we got to, um, uh, about$5 million of broaden and service manager. He did a good job. We were, we were flying, you know, what years was this about? Um, I would say that's probably 2009. Okay. 10. Right after recession. Yeah. Right up to session. W the recession worked great for us because I picked up a lot of market share. It was, I was really just the service companies. So we grew through that, um, lesson there. Yeah, there was lesson there. I didn't even go into a supply house, you know, and I didn't want to hear anything. I didn't want to hear about the noise. I just wanted to work. So I it, um, w we flew through that and got to the point that I, we were about eight and a half million dollars when I decided to add, um, HVHC, which is just pure eight and half million dollar plumbing companies. All service, all serve as Tampa, st Petersburg. Yeah. Got it. But well done. So then, you know, you wanted to keep growing, right? And you're hanging around[inaudible] and sort of eight and a half at what year was this now? Um, that would've been, uh, like four years ago. Okay. Years ago. 15, 14, somewhere in there. Flying high. But going to these next our meetings. Yeah. Starting to, and you're seeing like these big companies and Nexstar and every big company and next door virtually has HVHC. Right. Well, almost every one. And you know, when one of the, one of the cool things was I didn't join nextdoor until, um, there was a company South of us, Jamie de Dominica, his company. And I wanted to get in there and see, you know, what is about, I couldn't get into the place. You could get into Jane, get into Jamie's and he's such an open guy too. I know, but he wasn't open if you weren't in next door like that, but they're very close. So I finally got one of the vendors that we had a common vendor. I finally got him to find out and he said, well, Jamie told them all you have to be in next door to get in here. And so I called Lisa and said, Hey man, I need to get into next star. I don't, what year was this now? That was a, I want to say it was on my badge recently. We've been in next door for seven years. Okay. So we've been seven. Wow. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So, um, I joined in December, 1st of December and by mid December I was in Jamie's place and it gave me the opportunity to see what you could do and, and you know, he's became a really good mentor and, and now he's probably more like an advocate of, of, you know, what he wants me to do or what he thinks I can do. And so that's been a fun journey. But I saw that and I'm like, Hey, I can do this HVAC thing. And Jamie kept telling me I could do this HVAC thing, so why can't I do this HVAC? So you decided to do this age? So we started from an, it just was awesome, wasn't it? Alright, first HVAC. Um, although I think we built our plumbing like an HVAC model, it is not the same model. Okay. I know the plumbing model really well. Tell me the distinctions. Um, you know, there's more in this, this is where the challenge I think, came in from myself. I can't control all the outcomes as easily as I could with plumbing. Even though we had plumbing sales and I mean we, we had a full bone department of sales and you had sales and installation, installation salesman and it wasn't just a simple little plumbing service department yet. No. Yeah, we run, we run the next door model where I do sewer sales. I mean it's a part of the business, but there are just so many factors in the HVAC that, um, I didn't know the equipment as well and I still, uh, I had a lot of reservations as a manager. I was, you know, I don't know John Maxwell's thing. I was probably a level three where I could, I could really get stuff done, but I couldn't really lead. And so I thought I could just kick this thing off the ground, get some guy in the seat and make it happen. And I just didn't, I didn't know what I didn't know. So you had just had, you had such knowledge of plumbing and how that works and you're in the middle of the operation and then you started this HVHC thing. And of course you didn't have the same product knowledge, you didn't have the same installation knowledge, you didn't have the same confidence, you didn't have all that stuff was all new to you, Indian. And, and so how did you cause that, that right there, what you just described is why some companies kind of struggle for long periods of time. We're adding a trade becomes not this additive thing. It becomes a detraction. So not only does it end the new trade, not prosper, the old trade suffers because now, you know, they'd, the energy they were putting into the one side is now being diffused across two and then it's not even working. So it's actually becomes, you know, corrosive in the business. Right. Did you see that at all? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That, that's, I was, um, I was a ground guy. You know, I, I would walk in and make things happen. And so not knowing that I needed to be a better leader to, to, to actually allow that HVAC to manage itself. And the plumbing manager itself, I hadn't set up that at, at all. Really? Talk about that. So what you're talking about now is you are kind of an operations leader and now you want it to be kind of more of a CEO of the whole business. Is that fair? That's fair. Yeah. Okay. So tell me about that transition. What, uh, how did that become clear to you immediately? Did it, is it something that, that you had to transition into? Tell me how that you got to that point of realization. You know what, I think it was, I didn't realize it until I was well into it till it was probably a year into it. And I still operationally pushed the HVAC piece. Like I pushed the plumbing piece so personally, personally, so I would, I would go on call backs because at one point the service manager I brought in, um, wasn't a sailing guy. And I just was like, Hey, this isn't gonna work. And I took over the HVAC service department, which is really funny now thinking about you were doing reculture. So I would go on recalls with attack. So I know techs, I didn't care what the call was. So I would go on the call with a tech, Hey man, what's the problem? Okay, I'll take care of the customer now you go back and rethink what you did and then come back and tell me what it looks like. Okay. And so I would literally run the call back with the tech and we would solve the problem. And I'm like, Hey, I'm, I can do any of this stuff. But not knowing that my leadership was maxed out. And so you did use, you saw when I wasn't focused on plumbing would dip and the numbers and the efficiencies that we were so used to a dip and then I'm over driving the HVAC and this reality set in that it, it was past what my skill set as a leader was, which was, um, took a little out of figure out and then took a little while to figure out how I was going to move forward. Did it manifest itself and just, you know, too much, too much work for you? Is that what was going on? Is this like, I'm, this is becoming a crushing workload or that's what stuff start hitting the ground. Is that or what? Um, you know, I think it really, it's about like, I even at that beginning stage, I love taking care of that customer and I love taking care of the employee and I wasn't doing either very well. And so at some point I took me awhile to reflect on the fact that that's my leadership style. I mean to the point that I was running off people that probably okay could have done the job, but they didn't do the job as quickly and as efficiently as I did running from the truck to the house. Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't like we, um, we couldn't have gotten a service manager, you know, it was, the challenge was to get a service manager that moved as quickly as I did and thought the way I did. And that doesn't even mean that was good. But that's, that's the level that my leadership thinking was on. And so flying without a service manager in HVAC business somehow made sense at that point in time where today it's a ridiculous thought that I would've even thought that I could have gotten through that period of time. Yeah, absolutely. I'm sorry, finish that thought. Well, no, I think that's the, I think the only thing that saves that is the, is the, is the love to work and the, and the acknowledgement, I think especially with Nexstar starting to lean towards in the last maybe three years or four years with the leadership training, um, you're sitting in a room and like, man, you know, is that me? And then you realize, Hey, that's, that's me. Like gotta get my behind end here. Right. I'm falling off the edge here. That's cool. So what did SA tell me, tell me if you were to, if you were to talk about John today in your leadership abilities versus John five years ago or four years ago. Give me the, just give me the differences. What's, what's happened to you? I think, um, before maybe just as short as three years ago, um, I would have gotten, you would have seen, you have, I would have been very animated about it not being correct, especially something like customer service or not doing work right. Animated to the point that I would've probably been yelling at you if the level of service dropped below what I thought was the baseline standard. Okay. Um, and I couldn't grow a leadership team. So I think over the last three years, the first step was just learning how to manage myself. And then now is it, you're not what, I want to clear it. I want to clear something up. You're not tolerant of poor workmanship or poor customer service, it's just the way in which you address has changed or, or, or did you have to change your standards a little bit? Um, no. I, I mean, I think my focus, like my, my focus now is on, I try and make my focus on, um, sandwiching this stuff instead of it just being so direct. And, and so I, I laugh about, um, the sandwich being, you know, something positive on the front and right there as for the movement in the middle and yeah. And um, and I, and I don't always still do that, but it was so direct before that it would have been just, Hey, that's not the standard. What the heck are we doing now? I'm going with you and we're going to sort this out and it's going to be my way. Like there wasn't an opportunity for you to lead, I think a guy that was the problem. Got it. So you were just direct to the point of being Belle. It's a minute of, well I don't even know if you had a chance to argue cause it wasn't like that was wrong, you know, it's just not, it's not like I was wrong that you didn't take care of the customer. Right. You just didn't, you weren't given the opportunity to do it how you thought best. Right. It had to be so they weren't thinking for themselves. Even w I don't think you were allowed to. Yeah, it was John's thinking. And you didn't even tell him why you're thinking that way. You're just going to go do it and fix it. Which worked at 4 million. Yeah, it worked fine. We were clearly profit making work. There's no, there's no leaders in the business. Right. You know, it's a genius with a thousand helpers that's called, it's a, it's not a pretty place. And I, and a culturally, I think everybody knew I loved to work hard and still they still know that. And so it, it gives you a lot of passes when it probably shouldn't. Oh, tell me about that. I haven't heard that before. What does that mean? Well, I mean even even last night, so now I've tried to focus my energy on developing the leadership team. And so I'm here with our marketing director and trying to just work on that leadership team. And we were having that conversation and some of the team that had been with us awhile commented that, well, you should've seen John three years ago. And so we were having a conversation about my leadership style now versus what it was and and used to, my wife used to joke that everybody needed a bracelet that was WW. What would John do? Yeah. So I don't even like to bring it up because to me it's offensive, but that's exactly how it, how it was. And so today it's like talking to them, learning, trying to learn and understand who they are and allowing them to lead and give me good feedback. And then I'm checking my, my pride a little bit that there's more than one way to God to get there, which is, which is a challenge sometimes of course you do want to impart on them some context. What I mean by that is, you know, if you, if you would go a certain direction, you know, part of leadership is helping people to, to understand why you would do something a certain way in a respectful way now. Right. So there is some alignment in thinking, is that fair? It is. And I think that's the toughest piece. I think the communication piece had to go way up. So, okay. My one-on-ones now, any it would probably we're doing that weren't doing what they were one-on-ones,
Speaker 2:but they were one on one show your face on Pokemon sternums let me check that off my list. I got my one, I'm running what I did it. That's valuing people right in the moment. They are devaluing people in the moment, right? So I had to really, the
Speaker 1:structure of my one-on-ones where they have the opportunity to communicate and sometimes I'll go in, um, we have, uh, operations managers, so he has all the field guys on and um, I'll sit in those two with him to make sure that I'm not just walking over there ideas and it gives them a chance in a formal setting to kind of go, Hey, we're, we're gonna do it this way. And I'm thinking it should be done a different way. Um, I used to say it and I don't think it was positive. I used to say it's like playing chess and I can see eight moves and you can see two moves and that is a little, and so you're never going to win, right? I'm playing three dimensional chess and you're playing checkers by bullet deck. Come on man. You can't see this coming like what is up for condescending if you say it that way? Well, on it, even now I have to, um, I, I, I think just recently in the last month I'm trying to do an 80 20 rule where I'm staying out of the, the middle and so 10% on the front and 10% on the back and, and let them work in the middle where even today I catch myself walking into a room, Hey guys, what's going on? What you're thinking. And right in the middle again, Oh man. W why do you think of that? Run that by me again. Yeah. And I walk out and I've got to go get that manager, bring him in and Hey man, I just, I just ran over chaos your day. So I have to recheck it. And I find myself doing that a lot still as a, as a leader, as your business scales up, as you grow and you got a lot more going on. I heard John Maxwell talk about what you just said. He says he likes to be involved in it. If a project is a 100 a hundred yard football field, he wants me involved in the first 10 yards in the last 10 yards, not the middle lady. So he wants to get started the right way and make sure it gets finished the right way, that there's a the end result kind of we're all aligned on what we've created here, but not in the middle. And I think that cause you can't do it all right. Besides business, you'd have some lot of projects going on, a lot of business improvement initiatives in a hundred person company with, you probably got six departments in the business now. We do write lease departments. We're 16 million and we're pacing to do, yeah, 18 and a half or so. So if you'd run it like you did at four, which was very effective, very profitable, you know, you just there, you just can't scale. Right. You can't go up. No, there's no, it's impossible in it. And I think now that I've, now that I've recognized that I need to shift my leadership and my thinking and empower other people, it's actually more fun. I, um, I'm nervous more days than not just because I can't go. You don't know. I'm an operator and I liked it. Yeah. Like to go in there and the operate. Sure. And so I'm catching myself paced in the hallway and I, you know, I'm like, I gotta, I gotta go back in my office and, and not dive in there when I think I need to and S and let these guys operate. Quite frankly, they don't need me to operate daily. And so that's kind of a, a shift to like, they really don't need me to operate daily. What I, what they need me to do is give them the reassurance that I believe that they're gonna get it done. And that's a, that's a shift for, for me with my leadership to get us where we want to go. What's interesting, I want to delve on this because we talked about this at our super meeting that we just had in San Antonio. You were there, right? I was, yeah. This idea that, that, that as you grow a business and as you offload responsibilities and your, you know, then, then you, you don't, they don't need you there. It'd be day you just said it. They don't need you to necessarily, you know, red cap is, it's here it is, it's a, it's a Wednesday morning and red cap is rolling right now and you're in Minnesota, right? So how do you remain productive and engaged in the business? Adding value without meddling, without doing their job for them and without just advocating cause we see that too. So you know, I don't need me everyday so I'm not going to be there every day. And sad fact I'm got some hobbies or in fact I've got another little business I'm thinking of starting over here, some weird kooky thing, you know, a restaurant or whatever and all of a sudden, you know, doubt that all that energy that you used to put in the business is now getting diffused either to a hobby or to another business or to less, you know, ideal things to write. I see that. Okay. So how do you fill your time now? Well, I mean, I still really, I like the routine. I like coming into work and, um, I, I like the challenge that I find myself in now. Can I, can I build a leadership team that can take us to the next level? And so I think I used to be very, very goal driven from when I was a kid till just recently where my, my wife am probably my father when I started was like, Hey, where are you going with this thing? Where are you going with this thing? You know? Well, so it was always, Hey, what's the number one most that you would say? That's what they would ask. Why don't we, my wife is like, Hey man, when are we, um, when are we done? Like you, you, you did all these goals. Okay, when are we done? And, and can you take your foot off the accelerator and just settled down here, buddy. You know? And yeah, I think now it's more about the challenge and what excites me is can I get a leadership team that can do this? And then can I get in front and, um, lead and build the culture. And so I have two daughters. Both of them now are, um, in college. And so this year is the first year that Anna and I will get a chance to really focus on the business and building what I want to be able to do is build a culture stronger and build a leadership team. And so when people ask me now, yes, I have goals for the business, but, um, the, the real deal now is a journey of where we can go and what's possible. Where before, I don't know that that thinking was, was even in my head, that was just a number and it wasn't, you know, a personal development of where I can go. And then what can the business numeric goal before and now it's kind of a, uh, a development goal. So yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know, at this point it's personally, can I develop myself? The, the tools are all here like a, I think the last time I was here was over a year ago. Where's here? Next door here. Okay. Next door. Yeah. So part of that is, Hey, I've scheduled a lot of training with my managers, so I'll be here quite a bit. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Great. No, you're on the board too. What are you doing? No, Jeff. Yeah, I'm an operator at heart. How are you doing this thing? Oh good, good. I know that's what's coming out of the ideas tucked in my pocket. We'll talk about those offline, but yeah, so now, aye,
Speaker 1:it's, Hey, let me get out of the and let me build, let me work with the leadership team. So my goal is to bring the leaders to the front and then I, I'm working with the training. I love training the guys. Okay. So I go in and do the training with one of the service managers depending on what department they're in. And I want that service system, that kind of service system. Yeah. I enjoy the service system very. Um, so I like to do that with the guys. And um, so I just want to be able to be more involved with the culture and then just see where personally I can develop to start giving back. And, and um, encouraging and leading other people to be able to do it. So it's a different thing. It's a different journey now. It's not a, it's not a dollar amount or its size or anything. So now it's just where can we go and what can, what can I grow into and then who can I be as a person to advocate more people to be able to do it? Because the challenge is personal for most of us as leaders, it's, it's not the tools, the tools that are here and available. Every time I need something, I look inside next door, I finally quit looking and I'm like, Hey man, whatever you're looking for, it's in Nexstar and you just go search it, you'll find it. And then let's talk about, instead of shoving my idea, my thinking, you know, yeah. In the other direction, we'll ask you what you're doing with your time now that you've, you've, you're not needed there every day. That was the beginning question and that was maybe one of the best answers I've ever heard. I thought w w how you, you unpack that, that, that their answer relative to, you know, personal development and leadership and team development and, and, uh, still staying active in the business because it is who you are. Right. I mean, you've been doing this for, since 2003, you know, and it's a big part of[inaudible] I love getting up in the morning and going in. I just, um, I, I think every day is as now as can I add value? Yeah. Instead of de-value, which was my own leadership style and it wasn't that far away. I, I, I ran up a fractional CFO and six weeks short, just recently, okay, we're still a work in progress. And when I had to exit with them, I'm like, Hey, you gotta come in and you have to, I need you to do an exit with me and let me know where, where I missed the boat. And, um, he's describing my old leadership style and I just apologized. And I said, man, I should've sandwiched you. And he said, what are you talking about? I said I should have sandwich, you know, and I felt like I failed him. And this is a professional guy that goes to a lot of places and I cleaned him out of the house pretty fast when I went back to my old. Um, why don't you do it with him? Cause why cause you, you had transitioned or had you with your field operators and then have you brought in a CFO who's a, you know, from guests, a corporate environment more than a trade background? I, you know, I think I conditioned, I've conditioned now our leadership team better. So when I say
Speaker 2:they're used to the beating, is that what you're saying? You used to like I will
Speaker 1:take notes for them and I'll, and I, and I have a pad at the bottom, has action items. And so out of those notes I'll write action items for them at the bottom of that. And, and then they'll take it, make a copy of it. Cause I'm pretty old school with my, with my style. And they'll take a copy of it and they know clearly what I'd like to see done. And, and I think it helps them. And I didn't do that with the would you do with this guy? You didn't take notes or when I, you know what, I didn't even meet with him like I should have. I just cause he was fractional cause cause he was fractional and because I thought he just knew what he was doing and knew what I wanted done. And by the time I reacted to the fact that he wasn't buying into my old style of leadership, it was too late and fair to him. Um, you know, everything you've described was, was me three years ago. I was like, Hey, you're not on point. You, you know, you're missing the point. Where's your, where's your list of action items? Like I'm just drilling him for stuff that he, he's looking at me going, I don't even know what you're talking about, man. Like you're going to be a hideous board member. I can see this right now.
Speaker 2:So if you don't see me taking notes with it, you might want to say, Hey gosh, give me your notes man. So I know we might come to one of these in six months and I'll be on the other side of this thing.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, so did you have you rehired there? Is it, no. Okay. No, I mean, this just, this happened. Uh, okay.
Speaker 2:This Friday, this Friday's it's Wednesday, Friday. I'm on the phone with him and like, Hey man, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1:see your action item list. I asked for two days ago like, I need a budget. I need, you know, it wasn't like I wasn't asking for the right stuff. I just, it's like coming from behind and hitting them with a board and then like, Hey dude, you didn't see that, you know? Right. Just read my mind. It just was poor. And w and Anne was with me in the, in the vehicle. And when I hung up I said, man, I did a bad job at that. I'll be surprised if this guy's around. And I think Sunday night he sent me a long list of reasons why. And I'd say most of them are valid. That's a good reflection on you though. Yeah, I was glad he wasn't. Um, somebody on our team now and I was glad, you know, talking about blind spots, I was, that's clearly a blind spot that I, I have to be, um, careful about because it's quick for me to go back into revert quick cancer. Yeah. And we all can very quick. Well, that's good. That's, but it's good learning. You know, so often when, when someone doesn't work out the, the, the knee jerk reaction, and I'll say that respectfully, not knowing that the person you're talking about is the knee jerk reaction is to heat blame on, on the other person. It's not to look internally and say, what did I do here? What, let's look at my footprints on this thing. And you know, maybe it was a wrong hire. Maybe it was the right hire, I manage wrong, whatever it is. But, you know, they don't always take responsibility. And I, I've always, um, and I've done it too, by the way. I'm just, but it's so easy to see that in other people like, Oh God, look at you blaming somebody else for this challenge, you know? Um, but to, as a leader, if you can really reflect on that and maybe it was the wrong hire, but there's things you did that, uh, that caused that result. Right. And I liked the reflection. Yeah. When you can run them off a professional and six weeks flat, that's pretty good. That's like, man, I still got it.
Speaker 3:Okay. I have the best of them. Crazy fast. You know, I still got it. That's so cool. Well, I really enjoyed it
Speaker 1:conversation this morning. Thank you so much for this. This has been a great journey and it's still ongoing, man. It is. It's going to be fun. Yeah, I might, we might be fine cause I'll, you'll be here a little bit. I might want to check in with you these and to see how kind of the journey is going, because I liked the fact that you're, um, you're a long way into it, but just what we just described, it's, it's never, it's never complete for anybody. Right. But I, I'm interested in the next year, the next two years for you, John, and see what, uh, see what transpires. Yeah. I like the intentionality of what you're doing. You know, you realize the, the, the, for the business who grow, John's got to grow for the business to develop. Your leadership has to change, right? So often we think I get a new manager, I need this person, I got this, you know, but you're, you're pushing yourself first and red caps gonna come along. And if you can grow red capital to Jeff fair as example, I truly believe that at this point. Um, that that's the, that's the tail end of who I am and, and, um, what I am able to do and give back. And so yeah, that's just the, that's just a nice added bonus, I think. Well, thank you so much for sharing this. This has been a great journey so far and I think our listeners will gain a lot for this from listening to any of you. If you're at an XR event, you see a guy, he's got a Natty shirt on, says red cap on it. He's a well dressed Italian man. Go say hi to him. He's got a lot to offer. And a thank you again, John. Yeah. Thank you. All right, and thank you all for listening to this fun episode, leadership lounge. This is Jack tester with John Genero and we'll catch you next time. Thanks so much.