This is a MUST listen podcast for any leader or aspiring leader in the Tech Industry.
Mark Templeton started at Citrix in marketing when it was 50 people, became President in 1998 and CEO in 1999, he experienced many stages of growth with many lessons learned along the way.
Mark shares advice for organisations going through hyper growth, highlighting how to break down the glass ceilings of growth and stop inertia creeping in. Mark also shares a very personal story of when he first became CEO and thought he needed to have all the answers and the hard lessons he had to learn.
There are 3 mins of extra fun after the music at the end- we would love to know what you think?
We would love you to follow us on LinkedIn!
https://www.linkedin.com/company/amplified-group/
This is a MUST listen podcast for any leader or aspiring leader in the Tech Industry.
Mark Templeton started at Citrix in marketing when it was 50 people, became President in 1998 and CEO in 1999, he experienced many stages of growth with many lessons learned along the way.
Mark shares advice for organisations going through hyper growth, highlighting how to break down the glass ceilings of growth and stop inertia creeping in. Mark also shares a very personal story of when he first became CEO and thought he needed to have all the answers and the hard lessons he had to learn.
There are 3 mins of extra fun after the music at the end- we would love to know what you think?
We would love you to follow us on LinkedIn!
https://www.linkedin.com/company/amplified-group/
Welcome back to Get Amplified from the Amplified Group, the podcast for tech industry leaders and aspiring leaders, focusing on transforming talented individuals into extraordinary teams. I'm not going to tell you where we are today. First, partly because we're in the same place as we always are, and secondly, because this is a continuation of our conversation with Mark Templeton. So we're sat in exactly the same spot as we were in the previous episode. So, sian, lead us off.
Speaker 2:Thank you, sam. So, mark, to kick us off, I wanted to ask you we're working right now with other tech organizations that are also going through rapid hyper growth. What advice would you give them at this point?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all I'd say know your why and shout it from the mountaintop. I find this is the hardest thing for companies to articulate is their why. Because you know it can be a little squishy for people who are so-called business people, but knowing your why is how you get customers and partners and employees to follow you. You know through thick and thin. So that's my first bit of advice for hyper growth, because when you're growing fast, you know you need people who will follow you fast. The second thing I thought about is I thought about is and I see this as a tendency for a lot of hyper growth companies is my advice is to think outside in, think customer in, think market in and fight the inertia of inside-out thinking. And the natural tendency and the inertia in companies is to optimize themselves and think inside-out. But by thinking outside customer in it's how you can grow more effectively, because in the end you can only harvest the value that you create. And the value that you create happens by solving customer problems. Create that you create happens by solving customer problems, you know. So that would be my second sort of big, uh you know a piece of advice. I think the third thing is on the inside, but it's about your culture. So define, teach and measure your culture, and it's important because consistency in how you get things done and the values of your team will keep them focused on outcomes and accomplishment as opposed to devolving into, you know, politics, entitlements, and you know so-called busy and bureaucratic work. I think it's incredibly important as a foundational element for high growth.
Speaker 3:The next thing is about simplicity, which is also, you know, something that's really hard to do, but I'd say that you know my advice would be to celebrate and ask for simplicity. I think that you know people respond to things that you celebrate and they'll respond to things that you ask for. Celebrate and they'll respond to things that you ask for. So, unless you ask for simplicity, you'll tend not to get it. And the, the, the inertia, the natural human inertia is oh, I could add this on, I could add that on, I could do this. I could also do that. I could do that. And you know, more equals, more complex. So, and this cuts across everything, you know, value messaging. You know, have fewer organizational layers is simpler, right, if you have a process, remove steps from a process, that makes it simpler. If you are building software fewer clicks, fewer choices, etc. How you deliver value usually results in a simpler product. You know require fewer approval and decision points in a process.
Speaker 3:You know, anywhere where you're reducing, you're making simpler, and whenever you reduce and make something simpler, you can go faster. It's kind of an immutable law. I agree with that. I 100% agree with that. The hardest thing in the world is, you know, to stop doing something, you know, in order to start doing something, all right. And so people tend to not stop doing things they just add on.
Speaker 3:And they just add on, yeah, and, and I can't say that, you know, as as a leader and as a company, you know, we were particularly good at that at Citrix, you know, but it is a way to drive simplicity and to keep investing in higher return and higher value things that are new, and releasing the lower value things, lower value things, but maintaining a level of simplicity because your total number of activities, you know, has not increased.
Speaker 3:And then you know, the last thing, I think for hyper growth companies is also very difficult, and that is to measure what, what really matters. And you know, I think the hardest thing to decide is what are the very few things that truly matter to make, you know, a business tick and scale and accelerate, and scale and accelerate. And where the confusion comes in is there are 50 metrics and there is no hierarchy to the metrics, so it makes 50 things look equally important. Yes, right, so the magic, the magic in this is, you know, to have five measures, let's say, at level one, that tie to, let's say, 15 measures that are at level two, that tie to, let's say, 45 measures you know, I'm making it up here at level three and then stop, yeah, there aren't any more because you just can't. No one can comprehend that many and keep track of that many things you know and there's a science to it, but there's a lot of art to it.
Speaker 3:You know, and you know again, it's easy to give advice that makes a lot of intellectual sense. Um, the magic is in the difficulty of, uh, trying to put it into, you know, an operational effect but this the simplicity thing.
Speaker 4:So we, we, we recorded two podcasts actually, and actually one was with um, the former md of softcat. So um colin brown took softcat from 100 million to just under 2 billion and he said the yeah, incredible story. But his, his magic was keep it simple and focus, so you can focus on the people. Keep the strategy simple, but what and? And? Then we actually recorded one the week after and that was um, with one of our amplified advisors who'd come up the ranks through Tesco's in the 90s when, when Tesco's really went through rapid growth and the similarities between keeping it simple was was very, very similar. But what they? But what we didn't get to and what you've just shared with us there is that actually you have simple as part of the strategy, so you're always looking at what you can make more simple and we didn't get to that. So that's super helpful, thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, generally. I mean it's again an immutable law of life, because I've seen it play out in different situations. You know, if people are afraid to ask for what they want, all right and so, and maybe afraid is not the right. You know word, they're not afraid, they just you know.
Speaker 4:I think I think afraid is the right word. Actually, we just but it's and it was. It was like me asking you to do this. Actually, I had to have these two guys go have. You asked him again yet and you wanted to do it. What stopped me asking you?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, no knowing the relationship that we have.
Speaker 4:What stopped me, yeah?
Speaker 3:yeah, you know, and that's why I, you know, in the advice, I, I, I, I said, you know you have to ask, you celebrate it and you have to ask for it. I mean, I have I've seen organizations that I'm part of, you know, for a long time in my life. You know there's a membership fee and all that and that's how they stay alive. And then one day they come along and they, they realize that, hey, this is not sustainable, okay, we're going to be gone. So they're going to, they have to ask for donations and they're always shocked, you know, by the response that they get. You know, because they, because they, they were, they were afraid to ask.
Speaker 3:Yes, it felt bad about asking and you know, if you have actually a good, you know organization and it's doing something positive and good for people, you know people will donate, they'll, they'll, they'll help. You know, you know. But you know asking is important yeah, shan, did you.
Speaker 4:Did you have something you wanted to add?
Speaker 2:no, when we were just talking about asking mark on the podcast. You know, I just said to vicky look, we know mark and he will say yes or no. Why are you afraid to ask him? Because you'll have your answer then why wait? So yes, I did push vicky to ask you and I'm delighted that she did and I'm delighted that you agreed.
Speaker 3:So I just want to thank you again you know, I can't, I can't resist um, you know, um saying something. So one of the things that uh, sam said earlier, that he feels like he's an amalgam Okay, I mean, I feel the same way. You know, like I have these expressions, you know, many times. I'll try to give credit to you know where they came from, because it helps me, you know, celebrate and honor mentors and all. So Roger had this saying, and so simple. Why wonder when you can just ask?
Speaker 4:There we go yeah.
Speaker 3:And he would apply that to because there are a lot of things you need to wonder about, all right, so you know there are lots of things need to wonder about, all right, so you know there are lots of things you can ask about. All right, either because there's nowhere to ask, you know no one to ask, or or you know it's. There's enough ambiguity and uncertainty and you just have to live with that and and wonder and you know, take some calculated risk. So roger would, whenever there was actually a discreet answer to something, he'd say why wonder when you can just ask?
Speaker 4:good advice. It's really good advice. So mark over the over the last year or so of us as being in touch and you seeing about the work that we've been doing. One of the things that you've talked to me about is organisations breaking down the glass ceilings of growth and your experience that certainly with as Sam talked about at the beginning of the first podcast that we recorded with you about the fact that you were at citrix for such a long time and saw such different changes in in the scale of the company.
Speaker 4:So can you can you just share some insights from your best experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, yeah, I'd start with, you know, sort of defining glass ceiling. You know, I mean, it's as it as it sort of sounds. You know, know you, you look up and you think there's all this space above you, but in fact there's a piece of glass there that's preventing you from occupying that growth space above you. And so the question is you know what? You know, what is the glass? What, what is that piece of glass? And you know, I think the way I have always thought of it and and have have experienced it is, first of all, is that dysfunction in your first team and maybe even in your organization. It's always creeping in and therefore it requires constant maintenance. But it is a glass ceiling, okay, and what all glass ceiling things have in common is they can be broken with action. And so and I found in my career that I had to learn this over and over again I had to learn how to sense that the top of my head was sore because it was about, and I had to believe that I was, you know, able to take action on it. It was something I could control, but it's something you learn over and over again. So I think that's the first sort of, you know, glass ceiling effect that I talk about. The second one is that typically you as an individual are a glass ceiling. You go as far as your experience and or education will take you, unless you're very conscious of that and you take development seriously and you realize that your development is on you, it's not on someone else.
Speaker 3:After I became CEO at Citrix, I, you know, thought a lot about what that meant. One of the things that it meant is that the company could only grow to the degree that I grew. And if I didn't do pro and that sounds very cliche, but I would write down the beginning of the year as part of my self-evaluation that I had to share with the board, okay, um, as part of our governance, uh, model, um, I had to write down, you know, kind of, what I did well, what I didn't do well, you, what areas you know I intended to develop in and how I intended to do that. And I did them, you know, and sometimes it was reading and studying a topic, sometimes it was taking a seminar, sometimes it was going to a particular conference or sometimes it was spending a certain amount of days, you know, with partners or customers. That I wasn't, you know, I hadn't been spending in the past. So you know you, your development is on you. If you wake up every day and believe that and do something about it, you, you know you'll, you'll break those, those glass ceilings.
Speaker 3:The third type of glass ceiling are sort of business systems and processes when you're growing. If the systems aren't always breaking, then you're doing something wrong. So you have to understand and set expectations and investments have to be built into your plan around systems, because you know what. The systems that work when your company is a hundred people don't work at a thousand and, by the way, the opposite is just as true. You know, systems that were designed for a thousand people don't work for a hundred person company. So systems are very clearly a type of glass ceiling that you have to and you can proactively break.
Speaker 3:Another one is it's a natural thing that can happen as you grow is you can lose the clarity around your purpose and your ambition. So I would always try to. You know, working at Citrix, I always try to repeat it over and over and over again and refine it over time when things changed. And I think that when you have clarity around purpose and ambition and ambition and it's, you know, a big, hairy, audacious kind of goal. Okay, it allows, it has the effect of breaking glass and gives you headroom. So that you know, for example, when we started with a key just a crazy focus on remote access it was a glass ceiling until we articulated. You know our. Until we articulated, you know our purpose and ambition to be around the virtual workplace and that gave us massive amount of headroom and permission to do all kinds of things that you know were beyond the glass ceiling of remote access.
Speaker 3:And then I think, the other form of glass ceiling. Some might call it, you know, fear, but I call it ambiguity. You know it's sort of, because there's ambiguity right here that's limiting me. I can't move past that. So the way you deal with it is you learn how to have comfort with ambiguity by first of all accepting that you cannot control every aspect of what affects your future as a business or as an individual. It's an encouragement to be nimble and unafraid, to pivot and change. It's an idea or an encouragement to not let inertia control your destiny. And you know inertia is um, I consider it to be the most powerful force in the universe, because the way I define inertia is doing today what I did yesterday okay and you know because, gee, it worked yesterday, so intellectually it holds water, right, hey, that it worked yesterday, so so I'll just do it again today.
Speaker 3:Then you wake up tomorrow and you feel the same way and that's inertia. So to break that and not let inertia control your destiny, having big ambitions but also taking risks and trying new things and not letting ambiguity hold you back from trying those things, I think is how you break that kind of glass ceiling. And then I think the other thing about dealing with ambiguity and being comfortable with it is to define your own playing field and rules, because usually ambiguity occurs when you look at the world through the lens of how everyone else does it and how everyone defines it, of how everyone else does it and how everyone defines it. So an example from Citrix days around.
Speaker 3:This was so we had this idea called virtual workplace and everyone said you know, okay, well, what does that mean? Well, it means, and we decided it meant there was a whole category of software that we called access infrastructure. And somebody said no, there isn't. You know there's no such category. Like if I called Gartner up and asked them you know what's the TAM of access infrastructure? They'll say there's no such market, all right, but because the virtual workplace in and of itself was ambiguous in terms of what it is, you know, we would need to do to deliver such an experience, we defined the playing field by calling it access infrastructure, and then we defined the rules by then breaking the playing field down the way we wanted. That made sense to us, and then that was something that we could then execute on, and it broke the ambiguity of the vision that we had in context of, you know, like, how do we make it real so?
Speaker 4:so those would be my types of glass ceilings and and what you do to to break them yeah, and we talk about the ambiguity and almost lack of clarity, and actually we've said lack of clarity can paralyze people and it can paralyze teams and organizations, which is pretty much what what you're saying, and it's it's define it. Yeah, I'm playing that back to you yeah, yeah, absolutely you, you get to.
Speaker 3:You know, you get to define it and make it uh less ambiguous, uh, but that's how making it real is what you just said.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's how you get comfort with it, you know yes, yeah, and then because if people don't know what's expected of them, but they don't know where they're going and they can't see it, so totally get that. Thank you, so we touched on it a little bit earlier. In fact, you said dysfunction is a glass ceiling in itself, so the fact that organizations need to keep working at it and they can't just take it for granted, so we are describing that as organizational fitness. Now, we're not. People won't be able to see this, so they can't see that. You're nodding as I'm saying this, so does that make sense to you?
Speaker 3:sense to you. Total sense, yeah, complete sense. And and it makes sense because I don't think I did a particularly good job of that you know, my observation about dysfunction always creeping in and being a glass ceiling is because I, you know, I believe I didn't do a good job. You know, around organizational fitness and making the team functional.
Speaker 4:you know a continuous process yes, that's why we do what we do. That is, that's, that is our why. Because we want organizations to continue with the momentum and the dynamism that that we experienced in in those early days at Citrix. Sure, yeah, actually.
Speaker 2:I had a question for you, Mark. You talk about passionate leaders and them having the courage and the foresight to invest in the future. Got one specific experience that you'd like to share with us?
Speaker 3:You know, maybe I'll talk about. You know, maybe a little bit of I'm not sure I'd call it personal courage, but maybe persistence. Look at leaders, CEOs, whatever and somehow always see the positive and not see some of the. You know, the forging that's gone into making them. You know perhaps so I think you probably in your description of the podcast, you indicate that I was CEO from 2001 to 2015. And the fact is I became CEO in 1999. Okay, so I was appointed CEO president in 1998 for the year and then I was appointed CEO in January of 1999.
Speaker 3:In the June quarter of 2000, so six quarters into being CEO, under my lack of leadership missed the quarter by Wall Street standards by 15%. So we had set expectations for our growth and profitability and we missed by 15%. And I had known for about five or six months that we were struggling. And I was a new CEO learning on the job and I felt that at the time that CEOs are supposed to have all the answers uh, they're supposed to be the smartest people in the room and uh, when it comes to the board of directors, they're just supposed to deliver good news. So I didn't ask for advice and help and I worked it on my own, through many sleepless nights and on June 12th of 2000, we finally had to say out in public, via a press release and then appearing on CNN in the primetime business news hour, that we were going to be the first major software company to miss company, to miss their Wall Street expectations. And a month later we met as a board and the board removed my CEO title, they made me senior executive officer and I had to write a press release that indicated that and that the board had decided to do a public search for a replacement. And obviously it was embarrassing, it was disappointing, uh, but at the same time I knew I had to be held accountable for, um, you know the mistake.
Speaker 3:And um, at the board meeting I made a little speech, um, a very brief one, because no one was too interested in much of what I had to say at that time and what I said was that, you know, I take full responsibility, I drove us into this ditch and I fully intend to drive us out. And I walked out of the room. Out of the room was very, you know, disappointed in myself, etc. And, after sort of thinking about it and, you know, grieving a little bit, not too long, but a little bit. I got to work and the board got to work interviewing replacements, and you know they saw quite a few potential replacements and but in about you know, 10 months time, you know, we had solved all the problems and we were growing like gangbusters again and they asked me if I wanted to have my title back, and that was in June of 2001.
Speaker 3:So the lesson there, um, uh, oh, first of all, that is the deepest scar that I, you know, have, Um, and therefore, you know, the thing that I learned the most from and what I learned from it is that, first of all, the role of a leader is not to be the smartest person and have all the answers.
Speaker 3:The role of a leader is to be smart enough to surround themselves with people who, you know, compliment each other and to whom you raise the questions that are important and that you don't have answers to. And that includes two teams, your executive team and your board team as well. And it led me to one of my axioms that I'll repeat, and that is the smartest and most successful people I know are the people that ask for the most advice, and I find that when you're younger in your career, as I was at that time and I was a first-time CEO. You somehow believe that asking a question is an admission of ignorance and therefore weakness and being weak is not a characteristic that you want to exhibit as CEO Now. Being vulnerable, I think, is very important to exhibit, but not being weak. But people confuse that, and so it's advice that I like to give because it's it's something that I learned the very, very hard way thank you so much for sharing that mark podcast goal.
Speaker 1:I was messaging these two. I just said podcast goal.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was just absolutely, and I was really hoping that you'd share that story, mark, because you you've told me that before. And going back to our book thing that we were just talking about, I mean, there's, there's a quote in itself. The smartest people I know are the ones that ask for advice and then you put a little bit of context around it. And then another one dysfunction is a glass ceiling, and they're broken down with actions. You've just got so many of these. They would just make an awesome book. So I think that's going to be. I'm going to, I'm going to have a fun. This can go into the podcast. We'll get a vote going, mark on yeah let's do that.
Speaker 4:That's a great idea. How wonderful is that? So we're just coming on to the last question, actually, which is, uh, a question from my daughter, if you don't mind. So brooke, as you know, um was born as a citrite, because john myer, the half we met at citrix and brooke, is now 12, and she's got a question for you, which is what did you want to be when you were growing up?
Speaker 3:well, first of all, I can't believe she's already 12. So, uh, you know. Uh, yes, time does you know, fly by. But you know, like I said, it's a reminder that you know of the family and growing up together and all is a big part of the joy of of having been part of that culture. So I hope I I'm not going to disappoint her with my answer because I never thought, oh, I want to, you know, be a lawyer, a doctor, a fireman, a policeman or this or that. Okay, you know, I had a fear of being bored and so I always wanted to be something that was fun and something that I was good at. Okay, that makes sense, and you know, and when you're young you know.
Speaker 3:you don't necessarily know what that is because you don't know what all the choices are, and then you don't know what path you know will lead you there. So you know, and I think my ideas changed over time because you know, I never, for example, I never expected to go to college, because no one in my family ever had. You know. So why should I? But so many of my classmates, you know, were going to college. So I figured I guess I ought to go and I had to choose something to study. So I chose engineering as the thing to study and I got to college and you know I instantly got bored by studying engineering.
Speaker 3:I would never have put you down for that. Yeah, you know, just you know, and, as I said, being bored was my fear, was my fear. So I happened to see at my university it had one of the great schools of design there and I happened to see and meet students that were studying architecture, landscape architecture, visual design and product design, and so I just fell in love with the idea of product design and so I, just I changed, you know, and I think so. Part of my, you know, advice to Brooke is no matter what you might think, you know, you want to be be open to change when you see something that is more fun, that that's better, and somehow you, you, you, you're, you're, you're better at, and so that you know. So I, I, I wanted to be a product designer until I realized that, you know, I did very well in school but I didn't think I was a very good product designer. And then when I found out what product designers actually did, you know, on the job, when you're, you know, like right out of school, I said, man, that's boring. So I decided to get a business degree. Just, you know, someone gave me the advice and I didn't know what I wanted to do, so why not? So I decided to get my MBA.
Speaker 3:It wasn't particularly fun, but it was very challenging and fortunately I had learned a great work ethic from my dad who was an electrician, and it took a great work ethic to get through the school I went to and it led me to a marketing role which seemed to, you know, I enjoyed. You know, I enjoyed writing, I enjoyed messaging, I enjoyed learning about products and explaining them and so forth. And I did that for a big kitchen cabinet manufacturer and I spent a few years working with, with hardwoods and until I needed to write some software to optimize the output of our factory. And so I sort of tripped over teaching myself to write software to run the factory more efficiently. And it was another one of those moments. I was a marketing guy and it was okay, all right, and I was, I was having fun. But when I got a taste of writing software, you know, I just I said to my partner like hardwood has been good to me, but I love software, okay, and um, you know, uh, so that you know. So it took me to my late 20s, in fact, to figure out that I wanted to be a software guy and that became my you know life.
Speaker 3:Um, because, especially young people, you know they can get into the mode of doing what they think pleases others, like their parents. Okay, and the fact is, in a life you have to please and know yourself first before you can please others like your parents. And so, um, and learn how to connect the dots along the way. And you know, because a master plan like a, like a paint by numbers sort of thing, it does work for certain pursuits, um, you know professional degrees. I mean there is a you know paint by numbers way to become an attorney, for example.
Speaker 3:You know that's an example, but generally speaking, for most people it's about connecting dots and, as Steve Jobs said so prophetically, I think that you can only connect dots looking backwards and looking forward. You have to have, you know, some beliefs and guiding people and ideas and instinct to choose the dots going forward. And then you know if you're staying curious, you're working hard, you're intersecting with, you know great people and enjoying and embracing, you know, blessings from God. You know you do end up connecting the dots that become the picture, you know, that describes your life.
Speaker 4:I'm smiling away here because I think what you've just described there from our perspective and what we're doing now, we've connected the dots and we are just loving what we're doing now and pivoting the way we've pivoted to get to where we are now. Yeah, we're in a really lucky position.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean it's funny how you know there's the expression one door closes, another opens, right, I mean it's the you know, but you have to be paying attention and you have to have the courage to walk through and you know all of those things you know that yes, well, this is yeah. This has been great, great fun. Thank you so much for the opportunity to do this um oh no, thank you honestly to write down, because I would never have had a reason to write these things down. Ok, I write them down, so I can.
Speaker 3:I was going to say for for brevity. Yeah, yeah, but I'm not that brief even when I write them down, but I'm not going to comment on that one.
Speaker 1:Maybe, maybe.
Speaker 3:But. But you know it's also. You know it's fun to write answers to great questions that are meaningful to you.
Speaker 2:So thank you. Thank you, mark, it's been a pleasure, it's been fantastic.
Speaker 1:So all that remains for me is to say thank you, mark. That was absolutely magnificent, as I think we expected. Thanks for listening to Get Amplified from the Amplified Group. I hope you've enjoyed this very, very special edition. Your comments and your subscriptions are, as always, gratefully received, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 4:This bit will come out of the podcast, but what that's just made me think is you know, um, we talked about writing a book. So don't, don't, don't, don't get scared about this, but it was after coming up with cool that we did with you last time show and I came up with. You've got so many sound bites and things like that. It would be great to have a book of mark t phrases with some context, so it doesn't need to be a big book, just just write a book.
Speaker 4:Write a book definitely because it's that, it's that inspirational like that. So just that quote and then a bit of a story about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, I mean, uh, well, if, if you all agree to help, I you know we definitely have so simon sinek wrote one.
Speaker 4:Simon actually sharp bought it for me and it was just a pocketbook of phrases with some comments underneath it and I just thought that's mark, because we would come and listen to you talk and we'd feel so energized because there'd be just this hit you in the face with. I'd never thought of that like that before, like you just did then yeah, absolutely well, yeah, I, you know, I uh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as I mentioned when we talked about this, you know I've had people offer to ghostwrite and all this and you know it's not that I don't think that there there's. You know that it could be interesting. Uh, with the right. You know, ghostwriter, that that's a book book. All right, this isn't a book book. This is not what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 4:This is how you, as Mark T Inspirers and James just put he just put in this message to me Mark is such an inspiration and I think a book of Mark T inspirational quotes would just be such a present.
Speaker 3:Oh man, you know, multi-inspirational quotes would just be such a present. It would oh man, you know, it's like a guy a guy who's in churchill, as his hero doesn't think he could ever say anything.
Speaker 4:I need to go back through all my citric books because I've just got things that I've just written down, that you've said.
Speaker 3:Really, yeah, all right. Well, if you, I'm plenty dizzy, but if you want to try to give it a shot you know what's the worst that could happen. We just have some fun and you know, and maybe you get some content for the Amplified group or something and maybe you get some content for, uh, the amplified group or something, yeah, and then, if you want to, you know, noodle on this idea of a book.
Speaker 4:Um, inspirational quotes.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm in, I'm in, I'm game to dive in. You know what's the worst that can happen, you know.