You're worthy of support: Why women entrepreneurs struggle to delegate and how to overcome it with Kirsten Graham

Kirsten Graham, co-owner of Six Figure Business Coaching, shares powerful insights on outsourcing for small business owners and the mindset shifts needed to build a successful team. Her expertise from 17+ years of helping entrepreneurs build exceptional teams shines through as she addresses common misconceptions and provides practical strategies for delegation.

• Start by outsourcing tasks you don't enjoy doing, like bookkeeping
• Consider outsourcing time-consuming tasks even if you enjoy them
• Document processes if you do something more than three times with more than three steps
• Hiring is about building collaboration, not just delegating tasks
• Outsourcing can reduce the loneliness and isolation of entrepreneurship
• Understand the difference between building a business versus creating a job for yourself
• Invest in outsourcing before you're drowning in work
• You can start small with just 3-5 hours of help per month
• Women often struggle with feeling worthy of having support in their business
• Most virtual assistants cost $3-6/hour, making it affordable to delegate lower-value tasks
• When you outsource effectively, you free yourself to focus on revenue-generating activities
• Having systems and processes in place is crucial for successful delegation
• We find money for what we truly value in business and life

For a free guide called "Double Your Income with a Marketing Virtual Assistant," visit outsourcingforbosses.com. To learn more about Kirsten's coaching services, visit sixfigurebusinesscoaching.com.

https://outsourcingforbosses.com/
https://www.instagram.com/sfbizcoaching/

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Chapters

• 0:08 Introduction to Kirsten Graham
• 3:15 Starting Your Outsourcing Journey
• 6:30 Why Business Owners Struggle to Delegate
• 10:10 Financial Foundation for Business Growth
• 14:38 Strategic Hiring and Process Documentation
• 20:00 Overcoming Money Mindset Barriers
• 26:20 Hire Before You're Drowning
• 33:15 The Human Side of Outsourcing
• 38:42 Call to Action and Resources

Transcript

Shanna : 0:08

Welcome back to another episode of the Shine Podcast. I'm your host, shana Starr. Today I have a wonderful guest with me and I had such a lovely conversation. She might not know this, but by the end I was having some tears just by having so much joy and gratefulness for the wonderful women that I get to have conversations with. Kirsten Graham is the co-owner of Six Figure Business Coaching. Today we get to chat about all things outsourcing, but also finding value in yourself, finding value in conversations and collaboration, and also what it looks to have that self-worth enough in your business to start hiring other people and when it is time and how that might look for you. I can't wait for you to listen to this conversation, so let's get right to it. Welcome, kirsten, to the show. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you and already jumping on the call. We've been all smiles and excited, so welcome.

Kirsten: 1:06

Thank you so much for having me. I've got a feeling we could talk for hours. I know we won't, but we could.

Shanna : 1:11

Yes, we'll just have to do it again already without even knowing where it's going to go. Love that. Now you and a partner own the Six Figure Business Coaching and have for quite a while and I know online it says you're a dynamic marketing and outsource coaches who have empowered hundreds of clients to build exceptional teams and fully embrace those roles and CEOs. So I'm so excited to kind of chat about today outsourcing. And I know there's another little part that I love that said you lead people and manage tasks. So let's jump right into outsourcing today and let's also start with when we think of outsourcing as businesses. I know immediately for myself back in the day when I started, I thought, oh, I have to have somebody working within the business. But what I found for myself is that what can be helpful when you're just starting to hire somebody, it's to outsource tasks that maybe is taking away money and that could look like cleaning and personal tasks and errands. And I'd love to hear your opinion on when deciding to first outsource and what deciding to first outsource.

Kirsten: 2:17

Sure, I think it really depends on the person. So Jeannie and I started outsourcing around 17 years ago, so really long time ago and that was for her digital agency. So she was really doing print work, you know, flyers and rack cards. And then Facebook kind of came on the scene right and the first thing they rolled out was fan pages back in the day, and so she was helping her clients really come onto the space, building their websites and helping them, you know, create content for LinkedIn and for Facebook. And so really early on we realized that there was such a need for that. She could grow her business quickly if she could figure out how to hire, and so we started outsourcing overseas. But actually the first thing she outsourced, before we even started bringing on her team members, was her bookkeeping, because that really stressed her out as something she didn't enjoy doing.

Kirsten: 3:10

So when it comes to outsourcing, I really think it's it has to do with a couple of things. First of all, outsource the things that you really do not enjoy doing. That's that's usually fairly easy. Right, you hate doing your bookkeeping. That's easy to outsource. But sometimes we have to outsource things that we enjoy doing because they're time consuming and it's not the best use of our time. Those are two different ways to think about things. As far as outsourcing, the other thing I think that we look at very differently than a lot of people is we think about outsourcing as a way to build your team. So it's not about just throwing tasks at someone else to do. It's about bringing on a team member to get things done and to be a part of the business and part of growing the business.

Shanna : 3:55

And yeah, anybody, I'll stop there, I can go on and on and on, but I want to have a conversation, Please do you know all the things? I love that and I know you've talked with this with some other people as well that I was listening to earlier. And as a business owner, it's, it's our baby, especially at first, and it's so hard to let go at first until we start to uh, and it's often it's hard to imagine even someone being quote better than us at certain tasks because it's ours, we honed it in, we know how to do it right, but in reality we're only needed and we're only really good at a handful of things. And bringing on another person whose strength are in the tasks that we're not necessarily needed in will not only leave you time, like you said, but it'll leave you time to work on your strength, to grow and get more money and be done better. So I would love kind of your thought on that as well.

Kirsten: 4:51

Yeah, absolutely. Again, it's easy to outsource things we hate doing right, or even things we're not great at, like things that we just really struggle with. Those are easier to outsource. But, like you said, certain things we feel like we've dialed it in, we've got it nailed down and it is our baby.

Kirsten: 5:07

I think the first thing I would say is, as a business owner, did you start a business to create a job for yourself or did you start a business to build a business? And those are two very different things and there's nothing wrong with either of them. But if you want to build a business that can be larger than just you and can take you places that you probably just can't go on your own just because there's not enough hours in the day, then you really have to think about how do I build a team? How do I find people to support me in my business? How do I find people who can do things and maybe they don't do them exactly the way you do, but maybe that's good enough. Or again, sometimes you're surprised. People come back and they end up being more skilled Once they understand your vision or what you're looking for. They can actually blow you away because they can do things faster and better than you can do, but it really is opening up to the possibilities of collaboration, and I think that's one of the things I love about women is they do love to collaborate.

Kirsten: 6:02

So, like for our clients, one of the things that surprised me most when we started helping our clients outsource was how many of them said things like I didn't realize how lonely and isolated I was in my business.

Kirsten: 6:13

Or the best part of my week is when I'm meeting with my bookkeeper or I'm meeting with my marketing virtual assistant. I love collaborating. I love having someone to talk about these things with, whether it's talking about your numbers and what costs could I cut, or celebrating that you had a big month in a certain area of your business. That's awesome to be able to talk to someone about that in your business or with the marketing and being able to bounce creative ideas off of each other and come up with something better than either of you could come up with on your own. I feel like for a lot of people, it's think about building your team as building a collaboration, building people up in your team who can help you go to the next level in your business and also have a lot more fun, have more fun working with other people and not being like that soul, you know, that lonely soldier, that lone wolf kind of thing.

Shanna : 7:03

I totally resonate with that, especially because, even as a photographer, that's only 10% of my job. 90% I'm behind the computer, I'm alone and very often, honestly, I'm an extroverted introvert. So I enjoy it, I get energy from it. But I will say I talk to my dogs a lot if I'm not chatting with other people, so I definitely get that lonely part until we get to start to have conversations, to even grow our mindset a little bit and maybe expand the creativity part. So I love that, the collaboration that you talked about. What are maybe some strategies then that you would suggest to figure out? Maybe what to outsource and when to start outsourcing?

Kirsten: 7:44

Okay, so my background is actually real estate and mortgage, so I'm kind of the numbers person. So one of the things I believe, I believe in energy, everything's energy, and we can manifest what we want and we get what we focus on. So for a lot of small business owners, they ignore their, their bookkeeping. They don't enjoy doing it, they find it overwhelming. Maybe they don't want to know, maybe they don't want to know they're spending more than they're making. So I'm really I really believe that mastering your finances is about really getting in touch with what you're bringing in and what's going out, and I feel like that's very empowering, especially for women. So that's one of the things I always encourage people to do.

Kirsten: 8:19

You don't have to be a bookkeeper, you just need to have someone to keep your books for you and you need to feel safe and secure in that relationship with your bookkeeper so that you can have great conversations around your numbers. You know understanding what, what you're doing in your business, where you're spending your money and how it could change and move the needle in the direction that you want to go in. And you know, for example, bookkeeping software is as cheap as $20 a month and having a bookkeeping virtual assistant at $6 an hour. Most people only need four or five hours a month. Now your bookkeeping is being done for less than 80 bucks a month, so investing that money in that time and getting your finances in order, I think, is a really solid place for a lot of business owners to start.

Kirsten: 9:02

And if you already have that dialed in, then the next question would be what are you struggling with? What are you looking? You know, what could you really change in your business? Jeannie's very tech savvy and I'm not, so another way we support our clients is through software virtual assistants. So working with clients who are more like me and who don't want to build their own landing pages you know they don't want to build their website, they don't want to update their website, they want someone who can, you know, set those things up and handle all their automations. What again, what are your weaknesses and how could you fill that gap? That would be the first thing I would say to people is figure out one, if you're not taking care of your finances, make that a priority, because it'll really help you grow your business. And then two, just thinking about what you're struggling with the most, yes, you know it's interesting, that's the first thing I hired as well.

Shanna : 9:51

But I sometimes forget that that's an outsource Cause. I'm like, yeah, I have my CPA in the bookkeeping, but because I'm not using them all the time, it's not like a weekly hire, it's it's forgotten that. I'm like, oh yeah, I do do that. That was my first hire and I highly suggest that as well, because even at the end of the year, even if you don't use full year bookkeeping, it's so much easier to know okay, it's done correctly, even if it's not a lot of money coming in. So that would be that. And the financial advisor I was like where's my money going? How can I do better at it?

Kirsten: 10:22

So and that's that's awesome, because you put your money first as a priority in your business, and not because you're selfish and not because you're materialistic, but because you're building a business, not a hobby. You know you started a business to be able to support your family and to do the things that you want to do. It's your career and so taking it seriously and understanding that you do have to have those numbers in line for tax time. But it's also amazing to be able to have a relationship with the bookkeeper that's on your team to go through your finances regularly, Because that can be very empowering too, to be able to understand your profit loss and your cash flow sheet. Understanding all of those things can really help you move into that mindset of a CFO, which is only going to set a foundation for you growing a bigger business. So I love that. That's one of the first things you've outsourced.

Shanna : 11:10

Actually, I don't think I've ever even talked about this, but when I first talked to a financial advisor, it was so long ago that she looked at it and she's like you're doing great, but there's not a lot for me to even do, because you hired me before you even have money. I'm like, oh, not a lot for me to even do, because you hired me before you even have money. I'm like, oh, so, which was fine, I learned how to, you know, manage all the money. But it was interesting, I even jumped the gun on money before it was even coming in.

Kirsten: 11:32

So Because you set the intention that it was going to come in Correct. Yeah, yeah, and I think when it comes to a financial planner, if you have that person and you have the plan, as your business starts to make a little bit more money, you start pulling a little bit aside to put away right. So instead of having lifestyle creep or buying more equipment right away, you kind of balance that out with the fact that I want to set aside money for retirement. And so, even though it might've been a small amount, when you first got started, you already had the intention, you already had the plan in place. If that's what you were going to do with your business, your business was going to support you now and your business was going to be planning for your retirement.

Shanna : 12:09

I love that. Yes, and I know money is such a. It's not always. I know plenty of women who love to talk about money. I really do. I really enjoy it, but I think that came out of I was previously divorced. So you're like, faced with, you have to see every dollar, you have to figure it out. And now I really enjoy money and the strategies behind it of how can I build it, when can I put it, how can you know and that's something that not all women are comfortable with. Like you said earlier, we kind of want to just look away and not know where all those dollars are going. But when we actually face them and look at the scary word budget or wherever that's looking, actually face them and look at the scary word budget or wherever that's looking, it can be huge and impactful and powerful to feel like, oh I'm, I'm in charge of it and I can tell it where to go. So, yeah, I love that, yes absolutely.

Kirsten: 12:54

Money isn't something to be afraid of, it's energy, right, right, you started a business because you were going to charge people for your product or your service and you were going to make money as a business. You know, right, that's, that's what a business is, it's what it does. And so, seeing that from day one, I think is is really powerful. And, like you said, you didn't have a choice but to make your business successful, right, so you get a job or find a way to make your business successful, yeah, right, not only pay the cost of having the business, but also be able to pay yourself a salary, so you could, you know, live your life, pay your rent, pay your mortgage, right, that's. That's the power of having a business is it's unlimited. You have unlimited income potential, but we often have limited beliefs about what we can do within that business.

Shanna : 13:38

Absolutely, you're absolutely right about that. And something I was thinking about for the strategies I've heard this before and I don't know if you suggest this is when I was first told of how to know what to hire for and when is write down every task you do, which is, like most women, quite the list of things that we do. And then I went through and I'm like I was told, only circle the ones that you are actually needed for, and so when I went back and circled those, I was like, oh, I am not needed for that many, of course, like you and I, the conversation, I need to be in this chair and for my business, I need to be behind the camera, but there's so many tasks that can be outsourced, whether it's an actual person or even now technology can do quite a bit with AI as well. But that was a strategy that I was told when and how?

Kirsten: 14:27

Yeah, I think that's so true. What do you actually have to do to make your business successful? What role do you have to play?

Shanna : 14:33

And.

Kirsten: 14:33

I think sometimes what happens is it's safer to sit behind the computer on Canva and create social media posts than it is to go out and network or have a conversation with someone you know, because again, there's that level of rejection. So if you decided to try that approach, really question if I do these things, is it really going to help me grow the business, or am I doing them because they're safe and I you know? So it's hard to be really honest with ourselves in that regard.

Shanna : 15:02

Yeah, yeah. Is there a way that you suggest that we can prepare for outsourcing, whether that's implementing a business to make it a little bit more streamlined? I don't know if there's, like you know, documents, how to set it up, how to's, or whatever you kind of think. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, sure.

Kirsten: 15:18

I love the same. If you do something more than three times and it has more than three steps, you need to document it, you need to turn it into a process, and that's what we've seen over the years as most people struggle when it comes to outsourcing because, as business owners, most of us like there's so many things we're not taught how to do. We just jump in to starting a business not knowing all the things. We don't know Right. But one of the things we really struggle with is systems and processes, and we like to joke that SOPs aren't sexy, but they really are the foundation and the backbone of a healthy business. So being able to document how you do things and how you want them done so that you can delegate them, that is a huge part of the whole process. And then really understanding what are the hard skills and the soft skills of the person you need to hire. They definitely don't need a full-time bookkeeper. Again, they need someone three to five hours a month.

Kirsten: 16:14

Most of our clients don't need a full-time software virtual assistant, they just need someone. You know, some months it's they don't need them at all, and other months they might need them 10 to 15 hours to build out a new landing page and a new funnel and things like that. So, understanding that outsourcing isn't always about having a full-time person or even a 20 hour a week person, figuring out like it can be. It can be, it can be smaller, it's more people but smaller jobs right, because you want to hire the right person for the job and you know you don't necessarily want your bookkeeper to also be your software person, because it's very different, necessarily. Yeah, yeah, and the same thing with marketing. You know, understanding with a marketing virtual assistant that in order for you to have this person create great content for you, in most cases you have to create the foundational content and then they can do everything else.

Kirsten: 17:03

But in this day and age, where it's so important for us to show up in our content, you know you can find ways that you can create great. You know podcast interviews or YouTube videos, and then a virtual assistant can take that and repurpose it, send it out to your email list. They can clean up the audio, they can take care of the SEO and all the uploading and things like that. But you have to do this one piece. Like you said, you have to be in that chair. So when it comes to delegating, you're not always delegating the whole job. So to speak, you're delegating part of that job.

Shanna : 17:34

Yes, and somebody listening might go. That's great. So where do I find these people? How and where do I even look for somebody to hire? Is there places that you suggest or that you've loved for your clients as well?

Kirsten: 17:48

Yeah, we've been interviewing and training clients, virtual assistants for our clients for years. So it really is about asking yourself you know, do you feel confident that you can hire that person on your own or do you need to seek out support? You know there's agencies. You know there's lots of different ways to outsource. If you want to go directly, there's websites like onlinejobsph in the Philippines and there's other sites that you can go to to hire good people. My advice would be hire slowly, fire quickly. Go to to hire good people. My advice would be hire slowly, fire quickly, and understanding that.

Kirsten: 18:19

You know everybody makes bad hires from time to time and you know, with the fact that we, we hire hundreds of virtual assistants and and lots of and lots of different industries in fact. But it was interesting when COVID hit and you know everything's shut down, even in the Philippines. So a lot of people were at home and they were trying to get virtual assistant jobs. There were companies there that were teaching people how to interview for jobs, not that they were teaching them to have the skills to do the job, they were teaching them how to really interview for it. And it was crazy because I told Jeannie I made two bad hires because of this. And so when I started digging deep because it's like you know, usually our hires are pretty solid We've really dialed in that process. It's a very long process to kind of vet, we try to eliminate more people than we interview, right, you're trying to get rid of them before you get to the interviewing stage. But when I was able to go back and talk with those people, they had both taken a program that taught them how to interview, and so I had to then go and change our entire hiring process to get around that.

Kirsten: 19:19

And they're not bad people, right.

Kirsten: 19:21

They just, I think they just thought, well, if I get this job, I'll learn how to do it as I go.

Kirsten: 19:26

Reality is, you know, they they had the right words, they said they could do these things, but they really couldn't do them. And so just be very cautious when you're hiring, making sure that you're taking the time, invest the time one, have the systems and processes in place, have a process to onboard and then have a really detailed job description of exactly what you want that person to do, hard skills and soft skills, of what it'll take for that person to do the job and, like I said, really also listen to your gut as a woman. If something seems off, it doesn't matter how nice or how wonderful that person is. If your gut's telling you know, walk away and keep interviewing. Because, again, hiring whether it's for us solopreneurs or whether it's for big fortune 500 companies hiring is hard. And then maintaining great people is the is the goal, because if you can get someone wonderful on your team, you want to keep them for years that's the ultimate goal and to have them develop and to grow with the company, because turnover costs time and money.

Shanna : 20:26

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Kirsten: 22:01

Well, definitely say do you feel worthy? Do you feel worthy of having support in your business? And you know, I find that our female clients they end up they're great bosses, they're very nurturing, they, they're very awesome at, you know, taking care of their team and their team then often wants to take care of them. It becomes this great relationship and the virtual assistants stay with them for years. So, first of all, understand that you deserve to have support in your business and that there are people out there who are grateful to get to work for someone who pays them on time and treats them well and, you know, just gives them opportunities to learn new things and opportunities to grow within the business. So it's it's also focusing on the fact that you are helping other people, and I think that's one. One of the things that I think helps a lot of women hire is because you know you're not just helping yourself, you're helping this other person have this great job. So it's this awesome win-win. You just have to be careful, especially as a woman, to not. You need to be firm and consistent, have deadlines, have expectations and really lead your business in that way.

Kirsten: 23:07

I always say we lead people, we manage tasks. So having those SOPs and having a project management software, having deadlines, having structure for how you want things done. That's huge as far as how successful you'll be. The other thing is money right. People often think, well, I can't afford to hire. Well, if you think about it, if you're doing $3 to $6 an hour task yourself, you're really keeping yourself from being able to grow a business. So in a lot of cases you can't afford not to outsource and I love it. I've had clients who've said I would go back to like college days and living on ramen noodles before I would give up my virtual assistants.

Kirsten: 23:43

Right yeah, when you realize, like, what it feels like to have support, what it feels like to meet with your virtual assistant, your bookkeeping VA, once a month and all your books are done, or what it feels like to get together with a software virtual assistant to work out, you know, maybe you want a quiz as a lead magnet and to have someone to develop all of that for you. So you just get to focus on the content of that quiz and and the results that you want your clients to have from that quiz. It really puts you in a place where you understand and appreciate what can come from that. I want to go back to saying that collaboration, having team members, so it really does make a big difference. And I would say start small. You know, if you're, if you haven't ever, if you've never outsourced again, hire someone three to five hours a month to do something simple for you and just start where you can.

Shanna : 24:31

Yeah. So money is definitely one misconception that you feel like, oh, you can't afford what you covered, and I know for myself. When I was first hiring, one of my misconceptions was that I can't hire full time, therefore I just have to do it, and really there's so many people, especially now where they have a job, that it's not enough. They need a little bit more. So even those three to five hours a week could be huge for somebody, and actually that's maybe what they want, because if they have kids, they're like I can only dedicate a few hours and maybe a little more next month, and so I think that's a misconception I had to get over. Is whatever hours I give is enough, because it's the right person looking for those type of tasks and hours.

Kirsten: 25:18

So yeah, and we always think about employment. We think about the really large corporations, but small businesses employ so many people. And again, when you run an ad, let's say you're hiring someone for you know, four or five hours a week, the person who is replying to the ad, that's what they want. And then over time, if let's say you have more work for them, you can ask you know, do you want more work? It's okay. If you say no, I can hire a second person to do five to six hours. So, being open to the fact that it can look a lot of different ways, and especially now, it's easier now than ever before. You know, with zoom and WhatsApp it makes it so easy to build an incredible team halfway around the world to get very specialized support in your business.

Shanna : 25:57

Yes, something you said on another podcast was that we find the money for what we value, and it was interesting because I always found that to be true in my photography businesses If they value that service product, they'll find it, and I'm sure you found the same. And so, as business owners now flipping it is, we're going to find the money and what we value, and if we value our time with family, or time to work out or whatever how we wanna structure our day, we're going to find the money to then outsource as well. So I would love for you to expand on that a little bit too.

Kirsten: 26:33

Yeah, it is interesting how we have this mindset of not being able to afford something, right? Right, like there's nothing wrong with getting your nails done. I might get my nails done if I go to a conference or something Otherwise. I just don't because it's not that important to me either. But for people who have them done regularly, they appreciate that that's awesome, right? So I would.

Kirsten: 26:54

You know, not only would I rather spend my money on something else other than nails, I'd rather spend my time like going to a salon and sitting there getting them done. It's not my ideal of fun, right? So if you value growing, if you really want to grow a business, if you have a bigger picture for what you want that business to be whether it's being able to have the business send your kids to college. Whether it's have the business to really be able to fund a great retirement for you. Whether it's have a business that could run you know, without you you could take a couple of weeks or a month off on going and travel and the business could still run.

Kirsten: 27:25

What are your goals for the business? What do you really want from that business? Because it will give you whatever you really ask of it, as long as you're willing to invest the time and money into making those systems and processes and people within your business work towards that goal. So I think that's the thing is. You know we all spend money, we all have money Again, if you start to understand the value of having people in your business working for you, I think it's something most people would not give up Right.

Kirsten: 27:56

Once you've had that support, you understand and you value it. I think in the beginning it can be hard, and so it's really easy to use the excuse that I can't afford it right now. Right, you know, for example, most of our marketing virtual assistants are $250 a month and they work 20 hours a week, you know, for our clients. So you're looking at like 81 bucks a week. Would you be willing to give out a nice dinner out? Would you be willing to give up nice dinner out? Would you be willing to give up?

Kirsten: 28:28

You know, if money's really tight, what would you give up in order to have someone supporting you in your marketing on a regular basis, someone on your team helping you create great content consistently, helping you really build your brand message? What would that look like? And then, what could you do with the time that it would free up? Where would you invest that time? Would it be spending time with your family or would it be driving revenue? So you could not have to worry about cutting costs to afford your virtual assistant. You could have all the things that you value.

Shanna : 28:58

Not to get completely off subject, but it popped in my head that outsourcing is one way that I feel like once business owners start to do it, they realize even more so the value.

Shanna : 29:07

It's scary when you jump in and then you realize should have done it sooner. You know, I feel like we all feel that way. But another one of those is things like like client management or like CRM programs or different programs to help your businesses. A lot of times we're afraid to jump in on the giving the money up front and not knowing if it's actually going to help or bring money. But even things like that I look back and I'm like, oh, I actually make more money because my clients know when to pay, how to pay, I get tips, it's automatic. All of these things that actually move the business forward are the things that sometimes feel the most scary to do, because it keeps the clients feeling this is streamlined, this is a good business, it has a process, like you said, and it doesn't feel sexy in the moment. But looking back you're like, oh no, this is sexy because it makes your business feel and run smoother.

Kirsten: 29:59

Yeah, I mean, we've all experienced working with a small business that you felt like they were like a chicken with their head cut off right, even though you have empathy and compassion for them. If your experience with working with them wasn't good, you're definitely not using them again and you're definitely not referring them right. So investing in things like you said, like a CRM and technology, makes a big difference. I feel what's challenging, both with technology and outsourcing, is it's not just an investment of our money, it also is an investment of our time. So people often wait too late to hire. You want to hire before you absolutely need to hire. You want to hire because you have to invest the time in doing that. So hiring ahead of being under the gun all the time is the best thing to do. So hiring you know ahead of ahead of being under the gun all the time is the best thing to do.

Kirsten: 30:44

And that's hard because you're thinking well, I still have hours in the day, I could still do this.

Kirsten: 30:48

But if you started thinking about and from your perspective, you know if you you know I'm just making this up but if you had four or five photo shoots a week, but you knew you wanted to have 15, you need to start delegating things before you start having 15 photos. Right, but you have to change things. Or if you're not bringing in enough clients, then it has to do with your marketing. Maybe you need to be out networking and pounding the pavement, maybe you need to spend more time focusing on really dialing in something like your ads or your marketing. In order to do that, you often need to delegate other things, and so it kind of can be challenging, whether it's again spending money on software and technology or outsourcing, because you often, like you said, you have to take that leap of faith and then spend the time and energy to get it set up and to bring it back up to do it before it's actually too late and you feel like you're drowning, and often that's when we're like, well, that's when you should hire, is that's?

Shanna : 31:46

you know you need somebody and by that point you don't have the time to maybe find the right person, maybe take a little extra time to find that person. And also, if that's your first or second hire, depending on the tasks, you still may have to teach them a little bit how you like things done or how the process is done, and so if you don't have those things in place prior, you're not going to even have time to teach them, and then I feel like you'd be more likely to be like I'll just do it, because now you don't have time to reteach it.

Kirsten: 32:14

So I love that you said to hire before it's too late, really, right, and it goes back to you know, a lot of people have had jobs in the past. You know, if you ever had a job where whoever was managing you or your team leader was so busy they didn't have time for you, right, it's a horrible place to be. That's hard when you feel like you have to figure it all out yourself and then you're getting fussed at for not doing something right, but you were never told really how they want it done. You don't want to be that person and so you do need to have the time.

Kirsten: 32:45

And one of the things that drives me crazy and you know I still hear it is that, well, I've hired and it was more work than it was worth.

Kirsten: 32:51

Well, yes, it is going to be work up front, right, it's not. It's not all rainbow and sunshine. It's like anything else in your business. You, it's work and you're learning a new skill set. You're learning a new skill set of hiring and onboarding and training and setting up these SOPs. So it is challenging, but the investment of that time and the energy is so worth it. You know, when your team is humming along and, like you said, you're getting compliments on how awesome your onboarding process is, or how easy it is for your clients to pay, or the fact that they got all of these automatic reminders, like they just see you as a bigger business and a really professional company and they want to sing your praises because every interaction they've had with you has gone really smoothly. And it's not not that you're not wonderful, but it's not because you're like the end all be all. It's because you you have great systems, processes, great technology and great support.

Shanna : 33:43

Yes, yeah, and especially, even just getting back to those clients too, it just makes it a little quicker and if you can be the person, if they're looking at several services or products and y'all are small businesses they're going to go with who responds the quickest, easiest, and that process is the easiest as well. So, yeah, I love that Something I would love for you to talk a little bit about. If there's anything that we haven't chatted about, anything that you feel would be beneficial, that we haven't touched on and this could be personal, maybe it's something from the heart or a business too, that I would love for you to share, sure.

Kirsten: 34:21

You and I were talking earlier about how much we love having podcasts. You know, you start a podcast and you get to have these great interviews, these great conversations with people and, yes, we're doing it for our audience, but we feel selfish, right, because we get to have these amazing conversations and it's so amazing. I think the same is true when you start to build your team. You start to feel like you have this, you have a secret weapon because you have these awesome human beings, because they are, they're people. You know you're not just throwing tasks at a robot, right, you have these awesome people who are on your team and you get to know them and you realize that you're changing their lives more than you imagine. Whether that is saying hey, your birthday's next week, want to wish you a happy birthday and take the day off, or whether it's hearing stories like you know, I was able to buy an air conditioning unit for my parents' bedroom.

Kirsten: 35:09

And I never thought I'd be able to do that. You know, or I was able to buy one for their room and one for my room and we've never had air conditioning. So you are really changing other people's lives. You're bringing these awesome human beings into your business and onto your team and you are truly changing their lives and I think those of us who take that responsibility seriously and really find it's just like having a podcast interview it warms my heart right. I feel selfish. I've done so many ways that I'm the luckiest person in the world to have all these great people on our team and when I get to help our clients hire and see them now have the support of someone on their team to help them, but also know that them paying their virtual assistant on time and being a great manager and being a great boss is changing their lives halfway around the world, it's truly a blessing to be able to be a part of that.

Shanna : 36:04

Yes, no, I totally agree, and it was so funny that we were talking about that. We both feel selfish in a way, because we're doing this for other people, to for them to feel good, to grow their own businesses, to have the motivation and the courage to move forward. But every time I leave a conversation my heart just feels like, oh, that was a mentor session for myself, which is incredible and lets me know like we do need to collaborate, because if we can walk away from conversations feeling that way, imagine a conversation about your own business time and time again so that people can maybe spark those new ideas and creativity. So I love that so much. And creativity, so I love that so much.

Shanna : 36:46

And it's not to say to quick, go back, that you hand those tasks off or you hand that job off to somebody, that you can't still have a hand in it. If you enjoyed doing something, you can still peek in or check in and go hey, I want to post this. So, hey, I want to write a blog post. It doesn't mean you're out of it forever. It just means for that chunk of it, they're better at it. That's their job.

Kirsten: 37:05

I can actually share with you and everyone listening. Her background is graphic design. She owned a marketing agency, and it's so funny because maybe we're talking about a new landing page or we're talking about something, and I can see her getting excited about it, right. And so I'll say to her do you want to design this or do you want to delegate it? And it's so interesting to see her think about it. And sometimes she'll say you know what? You know, matt's off at rugby and the kids are gone this weekend.

Kirsten: 37:34

I do want to kind of take a hand at it on Saturday when I have some you know creativity and just play with it. Maybe I'll get it started and hand it off. But yeah, I definitely want to dig into this. Or other times she'll say, no, I'm excited about it, but I'll just I'll delegate it and see what they come back with. And so even you don't, like you said, you don't have to stop doing things you love doing. It's really a matter of if you have the time and if it's the best use of your time in that moment.

Kirsten: 38:00

But the other thing that's so awesome is the number of times that she's come back and said I am blown away by this Like I would have never thought about this. The way they did this was just phenomenal, and it's, you know, so awesome to be able to compliment your team and saying, like, how did you come up with this element or this idea? Like this is brilliant. You know, we love this and we would like to kind of take this element or this look and feel into our next landing page or whatever. So it really is amazing and it's your business, do what you want in. It May also find in Jeannie's case, I think she's more creative because she's surrounded by creatives, it's not just her.

Shanna : 38:38

Absolutely so. If everyone has fallen in love with you like I have through this conversation, which I know they have. How can we find you and follow you and work with you? And I know there's a freebie as well that we'd like, that you'd like to share.

Kirsten: 38:51

Yeah, so we have a free guide called double your income with a marketing virtual assistant, and they can get that at outsourcing for bossescom. And if you'd like to find us, judy and I are both at six figure business coachingcom, that's Sourcingforbossescom. And if you'd like to find us, judy and I are both at sixfigurebusinesscoachingcom, that's S-I-X figurebusinesscoachingcom. And there's a way to book a call and just have a conversation. And, yeah, if we can help you in any way, we're here to do that.

Shanna : 39:13

Absolutely, and I will of course put all of those links in the bio too, in case they're driving or running or whatever they're doing, so that they can find them later and have all those resources.

Kirsten: 39:21

Thank you so much, Sean.

Shanna : 39:22

I appreciate you Of course, I appreciate you too. It was so lovely to chat with you. I'm so glad we were able to, so thank you. Are you a photography business owner looking to elevate your business?

Shanna : 39:33

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Shanna : 40:07

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