On this episode, Indie chats with the amazing intersectional environmentalist
Leah Thomas. Leah and Indie discuss saving the world and how to keep your cup full while you do it.
On this episode, Indie chats with the amazing intersectional environmentalist
Leah Thomas. Leah and Indie discuss saving the world and how to keep your cup full while you do it.
Welcome to coming clean with Indie Lee, a podcast series about living with passion, acting with purpose and being fully present. I'm your host, and daily. Our guest today is the incredible Leah Thomas. Leah is an intersectional, environmental activist and eco communicator. I had the pleasure of having a virtual coffee date with Leah a few weeks back, and I knew I absolutely had to have her on the podcast. Okay, Leah, first of all, again, thank you so much for coming on to our podcast or my podcast. I am so excited for people to get to know you. Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. So I thought I'd start out with asking you to really guide us through the conversation and really define what it is you're doing. So most importantly, like what would you say? or How would you define intersectional, environmentalism and environmental justice? Thank you so much for that lovely intro. So for me, I learned about intersectional theory back when I was in college, and intersectional theory was created by Kimberly Crenshaw, and it identifies the ways in which our dynamic and overlapping identities might influence the way that we experience the world around us, and how the world around us experiences us. So for example, we're complex individuals. So I'm a black woman, and I also grew up in St. Louis. And all of those things impact my identity. So from race, to culture, to religion, to sexuality, on and on and on, all of those parts of our identities overlap and influence the way that we might experience the prejudice and privileges. And for context, I learned about intersectional theory through intersectional feminism, which is a type of feminism that makes sure to advocate for all women, and addressing the ways that race and class and gender and sexuality might impact that person's womanhood. And I started to realize that something similar could be applied to environmentalism as well, especially when I learned about environmental justice, like you mentioned, and started reading the data of how people of color and low income communities in the United States experience climate and justice and environmental hazards at higher rates. And that includes anything from increased exposure to poor air quality, poor water quality, lack of access to green spaces, and also close their proximity to toxic waste sites and landfills. So when I started to see that data and how it varied, it varied on race and wealth lines. I realized that, okay, I feel like the environmental conversation should also focus on the people component, and our identities, especially if people of color will be facing the brunt of the climate crisis that felt incredibly urgent. So I define intersectional environmentalism as a type of environmentalism that advocates for the protection of both people and the planet. And it identifies the ways in which injustice is happening to marginalized communities, and the earth are interconnected. It brings in justices done to the most vulnerable communities and the earth to the forefront and doesn't minimize or silence any quality. So that's how I define intersectional environmentalism. And to me, it's a path to accomplish environmental justice, and environmental justice is when. So those disproportionality is that I mentioned earlier, are no longer happening, and everyone has access to a clean, safe and healthy environment. Well, you have a very huge task in front of you. I mean, when you started this work, or started to identify this when you were in college, yeah. And now here we are in the midst of a pandemic. And we know that the marginalized communities are definitely at higher risk for all the reasons that you're talking about, in addition to everything that's going on environmentally, in terms of green space, and the planet, etc. And so we're in this pandemic, then Black Lives movement, you know, really brings to the forefront the issues that had it should have been addressed for the past 400 plus years. And then walk me through how then all sudden, your advocacy work really just blossomed in this moment. Yeah, I never in a million years would have thought that a pandemic and the reemergence of basically a civil rights movement would lead To increase visibility in my work, like, I definitely wasn't expecting that in any way, shape or form. But basically, during the George Floyd protests, I posted a graphic that said, environmentalist or Black Lives Matter pretty simple, and also included my definition of intersectional environmentalism. And that was the first time that I really sat down and thought about what I wanted that definition to be. And I also posted in that same post an intersectional, environmentalist, just in case environmentalist wanted to be better advocates to people of color. And it really is the power of the internet. I didn't do any i don't i don't know the answer. But basically, I posted it. And within a couple of hours, my following pot increased by over 1000 people. And it just kept going and going and going until I had a following of over 100,000 people and a matter of about a week or two. So it's really the power of the internet and environmentalist deciding to collectively act to amplify a message that I guess a lot more people resonated with, than just me. So it's hard to answer that why it happened. But basically, it was just the most organic thing where maybe a lot of other environmentalists were also wondering how they could be better advocates and the fight for civil rights, as well. I mean, it was almost like the perfect storm, to be quite honest with you. Yeah. And I think, you know, what you're doing, and taking on is what everybody is now seeking, like, how can we help? And it's not just about making sure that the Black Lives movement in people are aware of exactly as you're saying, the civil rights movement, it goes far beyond that it goes, it goes to how do we systemically start to address the problem? Because from what I'm hearing from you, it also it starts with the environment. And that's more than just, you know, you know, what, where, where we're living, but it also goes to what is being made available for everybody at every income level? Exactly. And I think, yeah, you make a great point, like, looking at the way we treat the environment, as a society is a really good indicator of how we treat our people. Because if as a society, we're degrading the environment and not protecting our literal home, and we're not protecting our home, how are we going to protect our neighbors around this, I think, you know, exploring those interconnections and the ways that society treats the environment as a really good indicator of what we need to do to treat people better as well. So one of the first steps for people to get involved and how are you? I mean, it's one thing to say, Okay, this is what I'm going to do. But then it's another thing for people to actually activate themselves. So what are the actions that you and other environmentalists are taking to start to create change here? Yeah, I think the first step, a lot of people are like, Okay, I'm ready, I'm ready to save everybody. And I have to say, like, for me, the third step is really listening and learning. Because when you with education, you can arm yourself with the knowledge to be a better advocate and take action. So I truly recommend people just following other people on social media, reading their literature, supporting their art, and their projects to learn about different cultures. Because for me, even though, you know, I made this little definition, I had a lot to learn. And I still have a lot to learn every day, and I can't get, I can't allow my ego to get in the way of that learning. So, for me, for example, a blind spot that I had for a long time in my environmental advocacy was accessibility, and how things may or may not be accessible to people who are living with disabilities and things that I took for granted. So even the ways that I was using certain colors and fonts and designs on Instagram, I had a lot of people call me in and say, Hey, we have this, you know, isn't compliant with Ada guidelines and our sisters, you could have higher contrast and your texts. So listening to people and learning a little bit more about accessibility, and not getting into a defensive place of saying like, Oh, I didn't Well, I didn't try to do that, you know, get over it. But being, you know, empathetic and trying to learn from people who are trying to call me in. So I really, truly think that the first step is learning from communities that you maybe haven't, you know, been in touch with and reading their stories because you'll learn a lot about what sources organizations to support based on the content that they're posting or the things that they're writing. And then as you say, like you kind of learned a little bit about these different communities. Figuring out how you can amplify the work that's already been done by people from these communities. Because there's no need to be a savior, necessarily, and this fight for environmental justice. But what people could use, the people who have been on the front line for a long time, is support. And that support could be monetary support. Sometimes that's support to be amplifying a message on social media, that support can be talking to your friends and family about diversity and inclusion and the climate crisis. Support can look different. So yes, those are just a couple options. I think those are great options. Because I think people immediately think, okay, let's take action. And you're right, you need to first understand and listen, because different communities are going to do different things, and not being defensive of the way they want the help, because it's not about you. It's simple things. But you're right, even when we go to the font, and what's the contrast ratio? I don't think that people realize that as a no, I'm a parent to a child that's dyslexic, and different fonts He can't even read. He's like, Mom, I have absolutely no idea what that says he can't read. I mean, truthfully, he can't read script, because of that. So it's interesting to think about that, even as it applies to what you're saying in your work as well. I also noticed, something that I got involved with very early on was the farm to table movement and building school gardens to really provide access to foods in urban areas, because it wasn't just donating food and, and things of the like, it's also let's teach children the importance of stewardship of the earth, but also how to grow their own foods in urban settings. Yeah, it was amazing to see how schools and communities were taking non green spaces and converting them into community gardens that the schools and the young adults, and even the kids were there maintaining. And as a result, guess what, they're more willing to eat better. They want to eat the food that they're growing. And all sudden, we're having conversations about the importance of health. And it's those simple little changes that can truly create significant effects and communities. Yeah, there's there. I think food accessibility, like that's such an important conversation to have. Because I think a lot of like you're saying a lot of people don't know about like food deserts and food apartheid. And the fact that a lot of people they might want to eat organic produce or regeneratively grown produce. And it's not because they don't support those efforts. But it's because you know, there's a root problem, a lot of people are living in neighborhoods where they don't have community gardens. So someone wants to be an advocate or an ally, maybe supporting projects to bring organic produce into those areas, and an empowering way where students can learn how to grow their own food. So it's not necessarily saying how can I come in and save you. But hey, here's a really cool, empowering thing that can help support this community and also help and food apartheid and any accessibility concerns. And what I've learned from and I don't even know, if you know, this, before I got into skincare, that's what I was doing, I was helping with school gardens, because it was very, this is something that I'm very passionate about, I have a 750 square foot greenhouse in my backyard. And I was growing organically grown, starter plants, and vegetable plants and herbs to them bring to school garden, so that we can plant them together and start teaching and having that conversation. But just even the cost of Earth boxes, they're just not that expensive. I mean, and you can do this with plastic, you can do them with garbage cans cut in half. And there are a lot of different ways to upcycle you know, discarded plastic containers to help create these, these these moveable gardens. And it was just such a fascinating thing to see the looks on the eyes of these kids who were like literally pulling up these organic carrots that they were growing themselves and then bringing home and it was making that available and it's just to me it was some of the most exceptionally moving parts of my career when I was doing that. So and by the way, the same thing goes for skincare how do we make it accessible and that comes down to the cost as well as is it basically available universally. Okay, so now everybody I've saw you, Harper's Bazaar, etc. With everything coming forward and like you said, this is you went from like, literally, you know, a small following to set you know, over 100,000 how are you handling this? Like how are you taking care of yourself? How are you really Finding self care for yourself right now. I mean, basically your, your passion is based almost taking on the world, which is not an easy thing to do. So how are you taking care of yourself through this massive growth, when so many people are now coming to you for help? Oh, that's such a good question. And I really appreciate you asking. And I think that's something that should be brought up a lot more with after this. Because I think there is a lot of giving and wanting to educate. And sometimes I feel a tremendous amount of pressure. Because, you know, if I'm getting a lot of direct messages, or companies or people who are like Leah, helped me like, I want to do this work, please educate me, it's a tremendous amount of pressure, because I don't want to say the wrong thing. Because if I say the wrong thing, then maybe, you know, I won't convince someone to care. And if I, if I can't convince someone to care, like I kind of go down this anxious spiral. And I have to remind myself over and over again, like, I'm just one person, and I'm human. And in order to do this work that I do need to set some boundaries. And that means that I won't be able to respond to the hundreds of direct messages and emails that I get every day. And I found myself getting exhausted so quickly, in this process, because I just wanted to the fight feels urgent to me, because at the end of the day, that means that maybe people look that look like me, or from communities like mine might have a shot at life. And that's such a high day, but then remembering, okay, I'm just one person in this process. And I need to take a step back. And I need to reconnect to the things that I love in order to do this work that can be really draining. So I make sure to spend time at home relaxing faciliate the things I love watching reality TV, in my brain. I love Real Housewives. I know, that's not like an environmental thing. One thing that defines you, right, you need to find where you gonna be able to turn off so that you can do the work that you need to do. Exactly. And I'm also experimenting with just like fun content on my personal Instagram dream girl, Leah, because I want to show people that environmental accidents can be human, I can be fun. They can be that's why I love writing for publications like elle. And you know, like Vogue or just places refinery 29, where people might not be used to seeing this sort of content, but I want to make this sort of thing a little bit more normal, and then also show that activism doesn't have to be boring and super serious. And then I can post a video of me dancing, and still be, you know, an environmental science. At the same time, I think there's this, I hate to say, but there's this generalized concept that you know, environmental activists are, it's go, go go, and you have to agree with them. And it's so heavy. And I love that you're making it approachable, because then people are willing to understand if they feel that they they couldn't possibly measure up or they don't understand it, because it's so heavy, that they might not be willing to invest in it emotionally. And you are creating that space where you're like, Hey, I'm just like you. Take a look at what I'm about as well. And I absolutely love that you do that. Because I listen, I as you know, I follow you on Instagram. And I love it when you're just sharing your music and you're dancing around and you're saying, Hey, I'm just, I'm a silly girl, too. I'm having fun. But yeah, I also have this serious side because you're right, the stakes are so high here. This is not like, you know, I actually I don't even know what to compare it to because we're talking about life. And this is like do or die situations here. We've got to create change, it has to happen. And it's hard, it's hard to measure the you can't do everything. You can't take this charge on all by yourself, etc. But yet at the same time, you're like, If I don't take this on, people are dying. So that's why I want to say like, how are you taking care of yourself? It's so important. How has the education and experience of working in environmentalism shaped like even brands that you're choosing in the beauty space in the personal care space and you're in the food space? Like, how is it changing your purchasing and consumer behavior? Yeah, how does my experience like in this space influence the way that I like purchasing? Yeah, like you obviously gonna look at things differently. Yeah, I love transparency. Yeah, I love transparency. I love when I go to a company and they are sustainable and they tell me what they're doing wrong. And I know that sounds a little silly, but I love when I see something that's like okay, our product is made with 95% recycled materials and Last, but we have this, you know, one plastic part to it. Because, you know, we don't know what else to use. But we're investing in the technology to make this product better, versus a company that portrays itself as being like, perfect, perfect, perfect. Because I know sustainability is a journey. So I always look out for that sort of transparency, any innovations that a company is doing, if they have a sustainability report, I totally geek out over that sort of thing. I love transparency and accountability. And when companies can say, yeah, you know, we did this wrong, but here's what we're doing to be better. I love that, because it feels a little bit, I can trust the company like that more than one that's, you know, pretending to be perfect, because I've worked and sustainable companies like I worked at Patagonia headquarters for a little under two years. And working there. They're basically, in my opinion, one of the most sustainable apparel companies in the world, and they are still able to acknowledge, you know, where they'd like to be, you know, 10 years from now and what innovations they'd like to do. And I think that helps shape for me like, Okay, this is I want other companies also be transparent as well. I love that. No, I think it's so important because there is no such thing as perfect. And by saying you are or saying that there isn't room for for you to improve is sort of like, are you really looking at yourself? Are you really yourself reflecting? I mean, we do we have an entire, we call a EIC, which is basically an entire division, that is about looking at sustainability practices, looking at diversity and inclusion practices. And we have a group that's dedicated to it now within the organization, so that we can continue to raise the bar for ourselves, which was something that was really important to encore with, which is the company that invested in us and two other brands. And we as individual brands come together on the aiic. Committee, which I think is amazing. Yeah, super awesome. So what's next for you? Hmm, that's a good question. I definitely take on way more products than I need to. But I think what's next for me is just learning how to experience breath. breath is like a radical act of resistance and making sure that I kind of paste out my projects a little bit more, I think, because this is all so new. For me, I was definitely living with a scarcity mindset of kind of like, Oh, no, you know, I gotta, I gotta do everything that I can and take every opportunity that comes my way. And I think just coming, you know, Pete, with whatever may or may not happen in my career, and learning that I can take a little bit of a break and take a step back and focus on the projects that really mean a lot to me moving forward. And is there any projects that you want to share anything new that we could share with our listeners, and how they can get involved? Because I, I will, I'm gonna put all that in the show notes, obviously, Instagram, etc, and websites, all that stuff. But any news that you'd want to share and ways people can get become? involved? Great question. Um, I would recommend following intersectional, environmentalist and staying up to date on what we're doing. We're launching a an accountability program, which is business specific sometime in the fall. We're working on that with researchers to get it up and running. It's a pilot program that's hopefully going to turn into a more automated training a little bit later. But we're super stoked about that. And also to stay tuned for our mentorship program that's coming for gun environmentalists to be paired, and have like a dating app with some of our council members, and they can receive free mentorship and guidance from some of our council members. So that's something that we'll be opening up this fall as well. Oh, my gosh, you are. You're amazing. I mean, you blow me away you think you know, thank you. Thank you. I always ask on the podcast three questions. So I'm gonna go into mine. They don't have to be rapid fire. I'm not like that. But definitely share what you're currently passionate about. And currently passionate about probably regenerative agriculture. I think it's a really cool climate solution if we can farm in a way where the soil can capture carbon and hopefully reverse some of the impacts of climate change. I know it was kind of a boring sciency answer, but well, not for me. involved in the ag world. What's giving you and people like I didn't know that about nd what's giving you the purpose right now? I think what's giving me purpose is that it's really cool with intersectional environmentalist kind of like the spin off organization of my work that we're able to help people feel empowered and feel seen and heard and I think that's enough for me to keep going like it's the work that I'm doing is helping people feel validated and also feel like they can be confident to go out in this world and create change I think Yeah, I can see that you see going on just listening to you because me purpose so and what are you currently practicing in order to be more present on a regular basis I am putting down this phone that has definitely helped me be a little bit more present because I'm constantly plugged in and also safely I'm taking little long retreat days that like Airbnb ease and cabin because being in the same you know, I feel very lucky to be able to do that. But being in the same environment sometimes doesn't. If I'm working here sleeping here having fun here now I need a little bit of separation. So just having a little short vacations, and different locations. Helps me kind of just say president Alia thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. I I really do appreciate I know how busy you are. So thank you so much for taking the time from what everything you're doing to share with you, our listeners, who you are and what you're doing. And I know we talked about it so people can follow you on intersectional, environmentalist and green girl Leah on Instagram any other ways people should follow you. That is definitely the best way to follow me. Check me out on green girl Leah and also intersexual environments. Leah, thank you so much for being on with me today. Thank you. I appreciate it so much. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode of coming clean with indie Lee. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button. And ratings reviews are always appreciated. If you have an idea for an upcoming episode. Don't forget to email me at coming clean at indie lead calm