On today's episode, Indie sits down with Chronic Illness Advocate Nitika Chopra. Nitika founded a community called Chronicon - dedicated to elevating the lives of those living with a chronic illness. Learn more about her journey here.
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On today's episode, Indie sits down with Chronic Illness Advocate Nitika Chopra. Nitika founded a community called Chronicon - dedicated to elevating the lives of those living with a chronic illness. Learn more about her journey here.
Links:
Welcome to come and clean with indie lay a podcast series about living with purpose, acting with passion and being fully present. I'm your host, Andy Lee, I am so excited. I've been jazzed about this all like weekend, to be honest that I have medica show grow with me now, I've actually known her we just doing this before we started, but I've known her for now, eight years. Back way back in 2013, when you are hosting your own show with z living, which was naturally beautiful. And I'm not sure what the forces were, we're going to call it the universe. But they brought us together. And you actually brought me on a few times. And then you remember, like we did a couple of events, too. Yeah, we've done I feel like in the early days, we did so much together. And it's nice to kind of find ways to come back. I know, I know. It's like coming back to home. Yeah, totally. So I'm so excited for everybody to get to know who you are that mean, I kind of feel like you're already very well known. But for anybody new to listening this, I can't on my heart. I'm so excited. So this show is all about living with purpose, right? Living with passion and being fully present. Right. So really, how people take their passion and make it their purpose. And for me staying present is so much a part of that, like you can't you can't be living in the past or in the future and and really be aware of all that is in the moment. And so I thought I'd go back to kind of how you got started in the beauty and wellness industry. And I know that you have a backstory. I know some of your health plays into this too. So I would love for you to share how you kind of got into the industry. Sure. Yeah. Well, thanks. First of all, thanks for having me. Because I'm so happy to be here with you. I've also been very excited that we get to sit down and we I feel like we're connecting on so many different things right now, which is so fun, but we haven't like a deep dive totally. So I'm really excited that we get to spend this time together. And yeah, it's so weird because I feel like the way I started in the beauty and wellness industry, especially the beauty industry, the beauty industry was very much an accident. I never grew up, you know, I always loved like Bollywood glam, but it's not like I ever, you know, adorned myself in that way or I ever even knew about skincare really, or makeup. I didn't really know about any of those things. My mom was always very simple with like her own makeup routine. And then as you sort of alluded to my health always played a huge part in my journey with my body and the way I presented myself because I was diagnosed with psoriasis at the age of 10. And then psoriatic arthritis at the age of 19, which are both autoimmune diseases and my psoriasis in particular was covering 98% of my body for about two years. Yeah, I didn't realize it was that much. Body. Yeah, I don't think people realize that psoriatic arthritis is in fact an autoimmune disease. Like they just think it's some people think it's just what they're eating or etc. But my sister has a two she goes for infusions. It's really serious. And it's super painful. Yeah, I got the psoriatic arthritis when I was 19. So you know, from about 10 years into my first diagnosis. And yeah, I didn't know anything about it. And at the time, you know, most of my body was covered with psoriasis. So I just never thought about skincare or beauty. I always felt like it was this thing that was sort of a means to an end. Like if I had just, you know, lather my skin in something, it was really just to get through the day or get through the night. It wasn't ever to like pamper myself or connect with my body or any of those things. I didn't know anything about that. It's so funny, you're talking about, like Bollywood glam. For those of you who are watching on YouTube, you're gonna be like, she is so glam like your hair. Like I every time I see her and like, there's so much hair and V. And you just always look like perfectly quaffed and I know you're like, indie No, I was just on like conference calls, like quickly doing this person dry shampoo. And it's just yeah, I feel I'm very, very touched. That's very sweet. But, but yeah, I never felt any of those things growing up. I never felt connected to beauty in that way at all. And so naturally beautiful and even just like starting my wellness industry journey. I started back in 2010. That was when I had launched my online magazine, which was my first business and I had an online magazine called Bella life where I had like over 100 contributors writing for me, and it was sort of this dream that I I had to have my own talk show. And at the time, I had just gotten divorced, like not too long before this, I had just started walking properly. Because after I got my psoriatic arthritis diagnosis, I couldn't really walk without severe pain for about six or seven years. So there was no evidence to show me as to any reason why anyone hear me talk show, let alone a talk show about beauty or wellness or all these things. I mean, sometimes I have to stop and I'm turning 40 soon. And I feel like I'm spending some time reflecting on you know, the different stages of my life. And that definitely was a big a big me go far you have, like, I'm so proud of you sound like a mama bear here. But truly, but look at what you have built. Look at what you have overcome. And I know we're gonna deep dive into a little bit more about like, you know, chronically chronic illnesses. But I obviously someone who's, who suffers from autoimmune to overcome that. And to live alongside of it and thrive is no easy task. But you're living testament to thriving with something like this. Thanks. Yeah. And I think it's the word thrive. I've actually been thinking about a lot because it's something that I say a lot in the work that I do, I'm always talking about thriving with a chronic illness. And since sharing that with people, I feel like I've had to really evaluate like, what does that really mean? Because I think in the traditional wellness industry, we think of thriving as like one version, there's only one version of thriving. You're either on that peloton bike every day drinking$40, green juices, getting cryo therapy and like doing whatever it is that's boozy, thriving. That is a lot of what people are fooled, right? Like, this is what self love looks like, this is what wellness looks like, this is the only way and I think thriving can actually be kind of a triggering word for people. Yeah, in this moment, because we're used to seeing it just this one way. And I think what I really want to do is help people see, it's what you consider to be thriving. It's not what I look like, maybe for me, I really needed to grow my hair to thrive today like that. But you needed to put your hair back in a coupon and you sleep, you know. So that's obviously a very topical thing. But even when it comes to our health and our mental health and our bodies and our relationships, thriving is different for everyone. And I think that's really important to own. No, I love I love that distinction. And thank you for even sharing that with me because I think of it as sometimes it's pushing through and kind of elevating and getting those eight the word success because again, just like driving success can look like different. And wellness looks like different to everybody. But for me, it's not allowing my disease to hold me back or to stop me. Right. So because I've always hated like, yes, survivor is a word people use for me. But to me, it's not just surviving. I'm I'm happy, I'm joyful. To me. That's thriving. I'm happy with who I am. Yeah, I think very different. I think it's really the internal state that makes me feel like I'm you know, like, we're in the middle of a pandemic right now. You know, people are really struggling. I live alone in Manhattan. I've been pretty much alone since the end of you know, March of last year. 2020. So it's, it's challenging, you know, and it's really, it can be exhausting. It can be scary, like all of these things. But the days I feel that I'm able to thrive are the days when I'm just like, okay, like I did my journaling this morning, I meditated. I washed my dishes, I like did a bit of stretching. I did things that just have me feel like I'm loving and caring for myself. And then that apparently makes me feel better overall. I love it. Okay, so you have this show? Yes. Okay, you have you have the magazine, the easy, right, right. So then you have a show. Okay, then what happens because there's a there's like a gap that I need a little bit of filling in on and then I definitely want a talk about this incredible thing that you created, but I'm sure there was a lead up to it. Oh, yeah. I mean, for sure. I mean, that was It's been so long now. So I mean, I guess to like, give you the cliff notes. So after the show, I really was in like this beauty space, you know, and I was talking about beauty and I was always trying to connect it back to self love and connected back to wellness. But you know, it was still beauty. And for a while there. I actually was also hired to be the spokesperson for the skincare company fresh on KBC. And I remember Yeah, and that was so exciting. Love Plasma, and one of the founders of brush was on my show as well. And so we became friends that way. So it's really, that was sort of this whole chapter, you know. And there, I was doing the whole influencer thing talking about beauty, all that stuff. And that was really, you know, I was happy doing it. I wasn't unhappy. I never felt like I did anything that wasn't authentically me or anything that you've always kept up. But But, you know, around 2016 2017, when that election happened, there was so much turmoil, not only in the country, but I think within a lot of us, especially the communities of color, and I think there was a acknowledgement and a sort of realization that came along with that that was was devastating, you know, and it sort of, it changed everything for me in so many ways. And it was sort of like, okay, yeah, I'm talking about this beauty thing. I'm talking about this wellness thing, it really, I think it is important, and it will always be important to me, actually. But is it the most important thing, right? Like, is it the most important thing in my life and then I really had to say is the one thing that is the most important thing to me in my life above anything, is helping someone who feels alone in their chronic illness journey, I literally start crying, just say I'm gonna cry, because, you know, but like helping someone who feels alone in their chronic illness journey, know that they are not alone. That is the only thing I really care about. The truly everything else is wonderful. Thank you. It's great. It is a tool that we can use to enhance our chronic illness journeys. Amazing. We need all of it, we need all of it. But for me in my individual life, that is the thing that I want to talk about all day. You can see it in your face, you light up and you know, it's so interesting, because I can remember you talking about your, your psoriasis back in 2013. When I was on the set with you, I like really can like and you lit up navigate like it's so vivid, just talking about it. And then here we are last year, right? Was it 20 2019? Or 2020? I don't even know what year it is anymore. I guess a year and a half ago now. Yeah. And you really took that passion for helping others. specifically within the chronic illness community. Yeah, people who really feel so shunned in many cases and alone and isolated. Hmm. And you turn that into your purpose? Yeah. So then tell me what happens. Yes. So I mean, throughout that sort of reckoning that I was going through, I just started and I really encourage people to do this too. Like, if you're feeling lost or confused, and you're kind of like, I knew I have something I don't know what it is, you know, this was like, right under my nose, my entire, like, literally all over my body my entire life. But still, I was like, I don't know, what should I be talking about? What it's so bizarre. Um, but you know, I started just playing with it a little bit before I made like any huge leaps or any huge decisions. I started playing with the idea if I could talk about anything, if I could do anything, what would it be? And I would meet people and sort of try on different titles. Like sometimes I was a talk show host. Sometimes I was a chronic illness advocate. Sometimes I was a beauty expert, like, and those are all true. Yeah, you are all those things, right. But just trying on and. And after a year, I started to see that, oh, every time I talk to someone about chronic illness, all of a sudden they open up and they're like, Oh my God, my mom has MS. You have a chronicle. No one ever talks about this? Oh, you know, I've had lupus forever. I never talked to anyone about this. What are you doing? You know, and it started to make me feel and put together you know, I always say I'm not very good at math. But this math never made sense to me, which is that I saw I felt completely alone. And everybody I was meeting or talking to who said that they had a chronic illness felt completely alone. And yet when I researched it, I saw that the National Health Council stated that there are over 133 million Americans just in America that have a chronic illness. Right. So I thought to myself, wait a second again, I'm not great at math, but this match does not add up how does almost half the population have a chronic and nobody talks about it? talks about it doesn't make any sense. And it's infuriating, actually, you know, and I think you're preaching to the choir. I know I am. I know I am so so I think it was that anger, that frustration that led spurred me into action and I was like, Okay, how can I do something about this and and the real turning point. What Shortly, you know, after kind of navigating and exploring this for a year, so I was at curvy con, which is another conference elevating, you know, those who have curvy bodies and who are fabulous. And I was walking around Kirby con, my friend had brought me as her guest. And I saw these women, mostly women, and I was like, these women are being there. They're not being like patronized for being curvy. They're being celebrated. They're like, all these brands are here. And just like, Oh, my God, you are so fabulous. Can you please come here and wear clothes and look amazing in them? Because you deserve it, and so on. And so when it's just it's, it's, I don't know how society often doesn't make others feel that they deserve it. There's this worthiness of a community. Yeah. And that other brands see you and that you belong. And and then there's, when you take the chronic illness side of it, it's being heard and recognized, even by the medical community, often and not being able to be diagnosed or misdiagnosed, and all those things that go on and not enough research. And you and I, I'm sure we'll dive into it. But yes, yeah. Oh, my God. Yes. Yeah, yeah, it's all of that. It's all of that. And even in our family systems, you know, God bless so many of our families, but we're, this is this is generational, this is dynamic. It's not just one person did this or one group of people to businesses in our society in so many of our cultures. So, you know, I was walking around Kirby con, and I was just like, literally, it was almost like an out of body experience. Like, I was thinking to myself, wow, these women are really being celebrated for who they are. And then I thought, what would it be like if I, if I went to a conference, and, you know, I was celebrated for having a chronic illness? Like, I wonder if there's something like that, like, this was the exact dialogue going on in my head. And I ended up, you know, basically, coming up with the title for chronic con, like, in in that I have that. I was just like, oh, what would it be called out? And, you know, I went through all these names. And I came up with the title for chronicon. And, and then, you know, so much happened between between then and now. But, but the the highlights of it were just that I spent a lot of time initially, really, really scared, which is like, probably not what people assume that. I think people like, she got it, she went, she was no, I had the idea. And I'm a very spiritual person, as you know. And I had the idea. And it was this full body idea. It was like, Oh, wait, this feels really important to my life, at least, right? And then I just like, talk to God about it for like, six months before I even told anyone. I was just like, like, are you sure I don't really have any resources. Here's conference happened, like what? And so it sort of led me down this path of, you know, believing in myself believing in the idea against all the chatter in my head or against things that had told me in the past that I shouldn't, and, and the things really came together really beautifully. And then we had our first live in person conference in October 28 of 2019. So when you created this conference, were you like, okay, Will people come? Like, what will happen? What was your plan for it? Yeah, you know, I was a little bit will people come but that is as much as I get that nervous, like when I do an event to like, I'm like, Oh, my God, is anybody gonna sign up? Is it gonna be me? A little bit worried. But to be honest, I had been doing events, even though I'd never done a conference. I mean, you know, you were somebody of our self love celebrations. I used to do these self love celebrations where I would sell out and I would have 250 guests. And it's so weird, because most people are nervous about getting 10 people to come. For me, that part was like, and I'll figure that out. I'm not American, I was worried about we're, we're, we're thinking things like, Am I really gonna own this conversation for me? Like, it was more an internal thing that was really hard for me. And then also, I really wanted and still want to do the community justice, you know, and that's like, a thing that I work through a lot, like almost every day still where I'm just like, okay, is this like honoring this experience of having a chronic illness and feeling alone? Is that what this is doing? Or is it creating more separation? Or is it creating this feeling like you're not cool enough to come that to this thing, or you're not, you know, well enough to be able to show up or you know, or you're not sick enough to be considered part of this like, add to that too? Absolutely. You know, so So is it creating more separation for us? Or is it bringing us together and actually nourishing us which we deserve? So that was really, you know, and that connects to where am I gonna get the resources to put on a conference, it was so different doing self love celebrations were so different because I didn't have to have like a stage with speakers and a sound system and a business, I could put on a Spotify playlist and broccoli tables and like, I was fine, you know. So it was the logistical part that way, and then also just wanting to do the community justice. That was hard. Okay, but we know you did. So tell. Tell the listeners. Okay, so you decide the date? And what happens? How many people had to come together? Yeah, well, we had 250 people, we weren't allowed to have more than that. So we had 250 people in attendance, because of the space like we couldn't fit any more in there. And we sold out like a month before the event happened. We had 1000 horse you did. I mean, I was just like, did we just sell was happening. And then not only that, but it was so interesting, because we sold out. But then like, so many people, you know, were contacting me like it was a ticket to Coachella or something. And I was like, I don't know what's happening. Like, I just decided to do this thing. I don't go. In love that was really interesting. And then we had like, 1000s of people live streaming it. Oh, my gosh, are you kidding me? He's really great, which was really great. We still have all of our, we have all the content from the first chronicon up on our YouTube channel, which I'm really proud to say it's like free. Anyone can access it. You know, we're gonna put that in the show notes too, because I definitely want people to the What does it feel like to create this? You've done conferences, you've done events, but like, what did this feel like? Yeah, I mean, I say now I think at the time, it was like, again, like an out of body experience. But now I'm like, that was probably the best day of my life. Like, even beyond. I mean, I got married when I was 20, which was a really great day, but no longer married. Although that was a really great day in my life. But chronicon felt like, you know, it just felt like the reason why I was born. Like, truly, that's how you know, you're living your purpose. That's how you know. And sometimes it's scary to say that out loud, because I'm like, Well, what if in five years something changes or what if in six months, something changes or whatever, but your purpose. Your purpose is the now that's your purpose. Now your purpose in two years from now can change, but you are living in alignment with your truth and who you are and stepping into this power now. And as a result you are and I'm gonna say it because I know you are creating this powerful, inclusive, beautiful and inspiring community and I can speak that from experience because I'm in it. But best day I was like is that Andy Lee joining the messages from from some of our you know, active members being like did indie Lee like is that is that indie? Like, is that the indie? indie for years, but she didn't hit me up for like a you know, influencer membership or like, Oh, no, I am. No, first of all, you should always support. But more than that, I want to be an active part of the community. Okay, so then you had this beautiful event, you become like Coachella, people are talking about it. I still want to see if I can get swag. I'll see if there's, if there's swag, I want it. And then COVID hits, because I'm sure you were gonna have chronic con 2020. Yeah, I was gonna have bronycon 2020. I was also thinking about doing chronicon in multiple cities. Yeah, I was ready. I was ready. I know. You're an entrepreneur as well. Exactly. I was so ready. I was like, you know, digesting everything. I was starting to really imagine it really. And I even took a little sabbatical at the very top of 2020. For two weeks, I took some time off because I didn't take any time off during the holidays or anything. I was sort of fundraising a little bit for a little friends and family around, you know, doing things like that. So I took a little space battle at the very top of 2020. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna reset, I'm gonna get all my ideas together, and they get my energy going, and then I'm going to go out there all day. Well, that did not happen. Any of us, for any of us. And yeah, and so basically, you know, because I am a spiritual person, and that's where I always look to in general, but especially when I'm having a hard time. Um, I really spent like from the beginning of March 2020. Till I would say about like, May of 2010 He's got a couple of like solid months where I had moments of like, should I be doing something right now? Should I be figuring this out like, right, so hard because nobody knew what was going to happen, we kept thinking it was just gonna be a few months, no one expected us to be here almost a year later, and still in our homes. Yeah. And you know, being immune compromised myself, I had a feeling I was gonna have to be one of the last ones to leave and start to do things again. But even I thought, like, by June, we should be able to buy that, right. And so I was in the beginning planning to do in January 2021, chronic calm, and I was like, we'll just, you know, I'll just spend the year and I'll just, you know, get a PPP loan, or whatever I got to do and just like, not stress myself out and make it happen. And yeah, by May, I started just putting out content through chronicon, we started a newsletter, we started a series on our Instagram, like things that didn't cost me anything to do, but I just needed mental space for it. And then throughout the summer, I just really thought about, like, what does this look like this is clearly not going to be a live event. And by that time, I think I realized probably not until 2022, if I'm lucky, especially for the chronically ill community whose immune system is suppressed. So we're like the last group that is going to go into a jam packed room and celebrate and high five and hug. And I just would never want to put anyone, you know, obviously, but in any harm, you know, so. So I had to sort of come to peace with that. And I was looking at all the different models, like there's so many people that were just kind of taking what they were doing and throwing it on online, and like that worked for them. And that's great. The thought of that exhausted me, I was just like this online conference situation just sounds exhausting. I also don't think that my audience with our energy levels would really like resonate sitting in front of the computer. And that way, so anyway, I decided to create the chronicon community. And it just it like I like off when I say it, but I'm smiling. Because it's amazing. While you have been such a beautiful member of the community since you joined, and now we're doing events together, which I know I love it, it was so amazing. And it's something that I think people don't realize, like I get hit up all the time, by people who are like, I'd love to collaborate with you, I'd love to do something with you. And I'm just like joining the community, like, like so into what we're doing, what we're doing is so much bigger than what you're doing than what I'm doing. It is about all of us. So if you really want to collaborate, so into chronicon. So in $95 a month, you can sew into chronicon it's less than $1 a day, right? And and then let's see, where do you fit in? What do you excite? What are you excited about? How do you want to be of service? How can I support you in your goals? How can we be in this together? And it's not a sales tactic? It's just like, that's genuinely how I feel. I agree. I mean, and for those who listening, so as Nick was saying, it is it is a platform, right? So it's membership driven. And you log in and you create your profile, and you can choose to share as much or as little as you want of yourself. And then you just connect with other like minded people. And it's everybody supportive. And then you do a great job of curating events that are so important for people in that community and could be like, you know, I started some cooking classes or cooking food related. For people like that. It's mostly for those who have chronic illnesses or anti inflammatory, then there's a book group, like, it's amazing. You can really go into anything. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, thank you, Andy. Thank you, oh, my gosh, I love it. No, no, no, I, you know, I'm I, I don't do this ever. Like I don't join platforms and go in and become an active member. But this felt like home and the community, it felt like I belong to this community. Yeah, you do. I mean, you do belong to the community. And I think that, thank you for saying all of that. I just, I'm a big fan. I just I and I, it's not just for people who have a chronic illness either. It's also I mean, so I can guarantee you anybody who's listening to this either know somebody and chronic illness is something that encompasses like theirs. It also encompasses autoimmune, but it's not mutually inclusive. So there are a lot of chronic illnesses that are not autoimmune related, but a significant amount of the happened to be and so I can guarantee anybody listening either has one doesn't even know they have one but as one or they know somebody very close in their family or friends circle that is impacted by this. So by being a part of that community, you can learn how to best support people in this disease. Where you felt feel often isolated and misunderstood? Yeah, thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself. Record you talking about the community because you'll get all the sound bites me again. And it's true, like allies are welcome. You know people like if there's someone in your life, if there's a partner in your life or a best friend near like, you know, even if they don't identify as having a chronic illness, as you said, some of the people that are in our community have chronic pain, or they have migraines. And that's not typically what you would think of is like a chronic illness, right? Um, but it's chronic for that, and it's real for them. And there's other people who are still working up to the idea of even owning that they have something going on in their body. I think that's a really, that's a really unique journey that I actually didn't even think of before I started on a content. I didn't even think about it, but it's so honestly, it's so true. And I think it's because so often it is misdiagnosed, or under diagnosed, and so they're not sure and it's scary. And it's, it's like, Okay, what do you do with this? How do you accept it? What does it mean, and in some cases, that doesn't have to mean much more than you might have to take medication. But in some people, it might mean you have to, at some point have a change in life, some of these diseases are degenerative. And so having a truce support system like this is so important. And I also think what is amazing about it is so many people with chronic diseases, can't travel. It's, that's that's hard, right? That is taxing on them, to go to events, to be able to join things of various different specific times, because you don't know how you're going to feel. The fact that you have this platform means that anytime there are people who are logged in, and you can leave a message, and people are gonna get back to you. And so and by the way, and it's, it's like International, it's all over the world. Like, it's not just us people, like we're doing something I'm like, Oh, yeah, there are people all over the world who just joined into this seriously. I'm learning that, you know, because we started to be events every week and the platform and, and, you know, different workshops, and one from the UK, like, hey, I want to tell all my friends to join all the events or Eastern Standard Time, it's too late for me I was I had no idea that that's happening. So now we have events that are earlier in the day, like are chronically beautiful events that I'm so pumped about. Yeah, and we do all kinds of things. Like there are a lot of people that join that really want to know how to do the work that I do and being an advocate and actually being forward facing and having a podcast and talking to brands and all of that. So I've been doing you know, the business of being you workshop series with them, bringing in incredible experts. So I think it's gonna be and the other thing I think that people mentioned a lot, this is the last thing I'll say about it, cuz I feel better for days. But a lot of times when people join, like chronic illness focused stuff is very depressing. I mean, I'm I myself have tried to join, like the the chat group for the medicine that I have take, or the psoriasis support group or whatever it is. And I gotta tell you a few minutes, I've unsubscribed and I'm just like, this is exhausting, I feel more sick. I feel like this is not uplifting. I happen to have a chronic illness, I don't have to. And I also am an entreprenuer. I'm also a woman of color. I'm also a daughter, a sister, I'm also a New Yorker, I also love beauty and fashion, dating and all these other things. And so I think that is what makes the chronicon community incredibly different than I agree. I agree. And I don't go on there and go, I'm sick, like at all, like, at all most people would even know other than me talking about having autoimmune diseases, a lot of people wouldn't even know. And it's not that I'm afraid to share it, but it doesn't define me. And so, I know you and I got to talk about this. Okay, so here's my, one of my final questions for you. Right? So you have you're basically curating at curating developing hosts, I mean, you are the eighth person, as chronicon grows, right? And I see you in there an awful lot. And you know, listen, because I'm in there. I'm upset. I'm always in there. I know. Well, it's your baby, I get it. But what do you do to stay present? What do you do for you to stay present? Because that's very hard when you are getting this information and a lot of people reaching out for resource or wanting to have someone to share with as they're going through this journey. What do you do for yourself to stay present and centered? Oh, yeah. So a few things. Um, it's a great question. I I really find that I learned how to set boundaries. pretty early on in my life, because of my health, actually, and I'm sure you can relate to this, like, there's just first someone who is completely able bodied and has absolutely nothing going on with their health, for them to overextend themselves, it might frustrate them, but it probably won't leave them in bed for weeks, you know, and I found for me, Oh, wait, if I overextend myself, whether that's through my DNS or, you know, showing up physically in places and going to events that my friends wanted me to go to, when I, you know, when we did those kinds of things live, it would, it would leave me unable to function in my life physically, because I really overdid it, you know, and so that is probably the biggest thing, I have become just really unafraid to say, No, like, I had somebody send me a message today. And we have had one conversation, she's lovely, like, I'm, like, Great joining the community, come hang out with us. She's wonderful. But she sent me this really long message you wanted me to like participate in this survey that she's doing for this book that she's working on. And it was like, every bit of her message was taking energy from my body. And nothing, nothing, no, no, no shame on her. But no, just an area of life that I'm just like, that's not my priority, right now, my community and my people on my priority. And so that's probably the first thing I just, that's a great one, cut out all the noise as much as I can. So that when someone messages me on the community, I am fully there, like, I am fully there. And then excuse me, and then I think the other the other things are simply like, you know, because I am home alone, all the time, which you know, for people who have big families are stuck at home with their big family, that might sound like a luxury, but it's a lot, you know, mentally to be in your own space by yourself for so long. So I just do small things, like I'll call a friend, and on a work break, you know, in the middle of meetings, I'll call a friend, I'll text a friend, I'll look at a funny video online, just to kind of take myself out of like, the rigidity of work, you know, loosen up my nervous system a little bit. And then I do find like, just, um, you know, as much as I'm a spiritual person, which can be very flowy and creative, and, you know, follow follow your heart type vibe, I find that having discipline for myself within that is really important. So it's sort of like what they say when you're like, you know, teaching kids something, it's like, we need the rules so that we can then go and do what we really want to ruin fly. And so I find that that really helps me like having I have like the same kind of breakfast every morning, you know, because it makes me feel balanced. My blood sugar feels much better when I do I make my bed I you know, clean up my apartment a certain way, like just certain very basic things. But rituals, they're Yeah, they're rituals, and they helped me all of that makes sense. A president helps you not spin or think or anything, because you're kept to it. Yeah, you are amazing. You are You know, I'm just one of the biggest fans. I know, you know that. So okay, where can everybody find you? How can they sign up for this chair and I'll put it in the show notes too. But I definitely want people to check this out. So the best way to reach you is Wow. So you can follow me on Instagram at medica Chico breath and also chronicon which is at chronicon official, whatever bio you go to I'm LinkedIn chronic cons and chronicon is LinkedIn mine, so you'll see us and then the link in both of those BIOS is the chronicon community.com which is where you can sign up and join our platform will love to amazing, thank you so much for today and just carving some time out for me. I really appreciate it so much. My love