Ep. 4: Carlie Roe - Relationship Talk and Overcoming Obstacles

On today’s episode I chat with my amazingly talented finace, Carlie Roe. Carlie is without a doubt one of the most loving and kind hearted people I have ever known, which is probably what really roped me in as we initially started dating…although, I can't lie she's a total babe, too! We get into a pretty candid story of how we met and the funny story of our first date. Carlie also opens up about not graduating high school, the shame that hung over her related to that, and how she finally made some big life changes to push through in order to get her GED. This episode will for sure tug at your heart strings a little bit, but will also 100% motivate you to get out there and go after what you want. It was so much fun recording with each other, that we decided she should probably be a regular guest. For now, I really hope you all enjoy part 1 of Carlie’s awesome story.

Carlie's Instagram: @carlieroeartistry
Carlie's Blog: The Positive Hairstylist

Instagram: @comingintofocus
www.comingintofocus.org
Twitter: Coming_To_Focus

Transcript

spk_0:   0:01
this is coming into focus. The podcast about all things mental health, and I'm your host. Jay Wick, licensed marriage and family therapist. On today's episode, I chat with my amazingly talented fiance, Carly Row. Carly is, without a doubt, one of the most loving and kind hearted people I've ever known, which is really what roped me in as we initially started dating. Although I can't lie, I think she's a total babe. We get into a pretty candid story of how we met and the funny story of our first date. And Carly opens up about some pass aspects of her life that have been holding her back, and how she finally made some big life changes to push through and overcome those obstacles. This episode will, for sure tug at your heartstrings a little bit, but I think it will 100% motivate you to also get out there and go after what you want. It was so much fun recording with each other that she'll probably be a regular guest on the show. But for now, I really hope that you all enjoy part one of Carly's awesome story.

spk_1:   1:16
All right, thanks for having me

spk_0:   1:17
You're welcome. I'm sort of obligated, I think, by their contractual obligations to put you on, or there might be some sort of drama later

spk_1:   1:29
that's going into our marriage, a speech or our vows. Actually, you have to put me into all of your projects.

spk_0:   1:35
Okay? Well, I have thus far, and you've been in I've been incorporated in yours. So, um, we're actually it's eight o'clock at night. We've started trying to record this three different times. It's it's giving me sort of feels of when we have done photo shoots and projects together. Before. When we first started out where we were, we'd get in little bickering things. Kind of because both of us want to perform so well for the other person and then don't want to let each other down. And so we're already kind of starting to like Oh, God, What are we saying? What are we doing? I

spk_1:   2:11
don't want to disappoint each other. I think it just comes from that.

spk_0:   2:14
Yeah, and I really don't want you to disappointment. So we brought it up this morning. Would you like to sit down with me, do this for fun? We could talk about some relationship stuff. I think you have an amazing story to tell just personally about yourself. Anyways, One of the reasons I love you. One of the reasons I'm inspired by you. And I think it's one of the reasons our relationship is so strong too is that we've both been through a lot together and we keep working and building each other up and stuff so recently engaged October 6. Sort of a big deal for you. It's kind of a hard, hard thing for you to hold together, Would you say,

spk_1:   2:54
Ah, yeah, that was Ah. Meltdown of emotions. Best day of my whole life by far.

spk_0:   3:00
You were watching the video over a game last night in bed. It's pretty much a weekly experience, I think.

spk_1:   3:07
Yeah. Reminds me how amazing you are.

spk_0:   3:10
You got choked up. Oh, thank you. You're also wanted to say that that's in my part of the vows. Is Ah, you have to say nice things about me all the time. Yep. Ah, you got choked up last night watching yourself again.

spk_1:   3:25
That about the 50th? Yeah, but

spk_0:   3:29
you're not the only one. We actually were just out to dinner, and we saw a friend who actually knows me but doesn't know you, but follows our social media and things. And she was stalking even about how she was crying watching the proposal in all of that. So,

spk_1:   3:42
yeah, that was cool to hear.

spk_0:   3:43
Yeah. Okay, so we we got engaged. Um, we've been together four years, right? So a lot of people you have made comments to us. It's about time. It's about time you got, First of all, just out of my own. Curious. How do you feel about that when people say that,

spk_1:   4:01
Um, I think people I mean well by it like they're rooting for us and they, you know, maybe wanted to see it happen a long time ago. But if I were to really dive into it, I think it's semi route. Yeah, because I don't think that there should be any rush on things like that. It's individual tow, each person in each relationship. So

spk_0:   4:21
So there's not like a timetable Now. You weren't in the back of your mind going like, Oh, it's about

spk_1:   4:26
No, no, no, I of course I wanted it to happen. We knew that it would.

spk_0:   4:31
We talked about

spk_1:   4:32
Yeah, We've talked about it for years. And, um, you know, we've known that we're it for a while, so

spk_0:   4:38
Right, so we're here now, moving onward upward talking about planning a wedding and all of that. But if we rewind a little bit and go back Thio how we met? I mean, if you think about a lot of our relationship, a lot of things have been sort of none traditional, maybe traditional in the sense of kind of how things happen now. But what would be your version of the story of how we met?

spk_1:   5:04
Good question. This kind of changes, Uh, depending on the person and the age group that I'm talking to, like when my clients ask. Oh, how did you guys met? And, uh, how did you guys meet? Sorry. See how many times Aiken stutter on this podcast? Um, I have two different versions when I keep it simple. Through mutual friends and the other version in

spk_0:   5:28
Israel version

spk_1:   5:29
he slid into my D ends now. And

spk_0:   5:33
what if you know, if people don't know what sliding into the diem's is Because that's where I mean, I'm old, but I'm pretty

spk_1:   5:40
hip still. So yes, So this means sliding into my direct messages on Instagram. Um, it's a joke, obviously.

spk_0:   5:51
But it's not because that's what I did right now in a message. Do through Instagram You did asking how my version of the story is. I saw pictures of you because we have mutual friends. I have a photography business. At the time I was looking to get more into portrait ce. I saw some pictures that you had taken with a friend sort of modeling type pictures. And I thought you were cute, obviously. But I I thought, Well, this girl seems like she's comfortable in front the camera. Maybe I'll ask her if she wants to take some pictures and wanted to be very professional about it, but also was kind of like, you know, if we get to know each other then

spk_1:   6:28
so my sight of that was pretty similar. But, um, yes, so you message me. I had heard your name through our mutual friends at the restaurant we both used to work at, although we didn't work there at the same time. Of course, we know a ton of the same people, so I had heard some of your Ah, crazy party stories and stuff like that. So I knew your name. So when you direct messaged me, of course. I went to my friends at work and was like, Hey, what's what's with this Jay guy? Aren't you? Yeah, but the message was extremely professional. So, to be honest, I didn't find it creepy. I didn't think anything of it. I was doing a lot of photo shoots at the time with friends and stuff, like you said. So, um, yeah, I liked your pictures, and I was like, I'll meet up with this guy sometime and talk about photos.

spk_0:   7:13
So we met at Starbucks. We were, But we're both from North County, San Diego, but we're both living downtown San Diego, and we met at a Starbucks. You God, like orange hair, I think. And you came in like a fly oversized flan hole in. Not like that's anything wrong, but I'm just painting the picture for your You can fill in that.

spk_1:   7:34
Yes. So I had been putting off meeting up with you for a while.

spk_0:   7:39
How dare you?

spk_1:   7:39
I know rude, and I remember specifically that day I was cleaning my house. I lived with my best friend at the time, as you said, and I was on the border of, like, North Park and Hill Crust. And so we had, like, that Starbucks in the middle says Akao, go meet up with this guy, right? Cleaning the house. No makeup, faded orange hair like typical me, right? But definitely not how I portrayed myself on my instagram at that time. Um, but I met up with you. I had seen a few pictures, but as most girls know and women, no, guys don't really have a ton of recent photos on their instagram. So I didn't really know what you looked like. And after our meeting, I remember calling my mom and be like, Oh my God, I should have put on makeup. That was really cute. But I figured you're older and you were so professionally that you probably had a girlfriend or weren't interested. So

spk_0:   8:32
I was just about the photos and yeah, I mean, that's assignment was like I was legitimately trying to be no international. Let's take some pictures. We talked a lot about it. We also kind of just the therapist in me, dove straight into talking about deeper things and whatever else, but we we never ended up taking pictures from that meeting.

spk_1:   8:53
Yeah, we never did think we kept in contact for a little bit after that. Through texting.

spk_0:   8:59
Yeah. What were we texted about?

spk_1:   9:01
Um, I can't remember if that was before or after we had met up, but we were texting about the bachelor.

spk_0:   9:09
Yeah. I mean, I don't think I was talking to you before I messaged due to meet up, but we wear and I'm saying it funny to embarrass myself, too. But we were literally texting about the bachelor.

spk_1:   9:19
Yes, yes, Friends

spk_0:   9:20
had been watching the bachelor and into, like, the bachelor fantasy league or something, and you and I were making jokes, but I thought from the text that we were having I was like, This girl's funny. She's witty. We kind of had a good banter back and forth. So I was already kind of getting a little crush or something, you know, from that space?

spk_1:   9:39
Yeah, we definitely vibe through texting. And the bachelor thing was hilarious to me because you were the first guy, to be honest, that I had ever heard of watching the bachelor at that time and to know that all of your friends were too. And even in a fantasy league, that was pretty intriguing.

spk_0:   9:54
My friend would probably kill me for bringing this up,

spk_1:   9:57
not naming names.

spk_0:   9:59
Eso Either way, we're communicating were texting back and forth at some point we met up for to do talk about the photo shoot photo shoot never transpired, but we were talking for a bit. And then one day you just went silent. You were gone.

spk_1:   10:13
I kind

spk_0:   10:14
of your Yeah, you ghosted me for sure. And your instagram was gone and your Facebook was gone. Everything was gone. And I thought so. I must have done something or I don't know what happened. But this girl blocked me on all her social media.

spk_1:   10:28
That was definitely not the case. I was dating somebody else at the time since you had never asked me out. Um, we definitely developed a friendship, but yeah, I kind of dropped off the face of the earth, so to speak as Faras Instagram.

spk_0:   10:43
Right? So why did you Why was your instagram and your Facebook and all that gone?

spk_1:   10:48
So I, um I dropped out of high school.

spk_0:   10:52
That's why your instagram was gone.

spk_1:   10:53
No, I'm leading into it. I dropped out of high school about my junior year and started working. So the reason I had deleted my instagram at that time was I was finally about to actually buckle down for real and start working on myself and my g e d and stop partying. And ah, I knew the instagram was a huge distraction, and everyone that I was talking to was a huge distraction. So I deleted that out of my life at that time and really started working on things.

spk_0:   11:23
So, yeah, I thought you had disappeared. Something I did wrong or whatever. Maybe I never progress the relationship into something else. But you were dating somebody else, and then you This is like 26 years old. I think something like that. And you were finally you wanted to go to beauty school. You had been putting off getting your g e d. For so long was something that weighed on you heavily and you finally were Were you have been taking some classes. But then you basically just started teaching yourself everything from some books Cuba and from YouTube.

spk_1:   11:54
Yes, I had tried several times. I mean, for over 10 years I had tried to go to classes, go to adult school. I did everything that I knew, how I spent hours and Barnes and Noble with different books and practicing those things those teachers taught me. And I just finally came to the conclusion that I think I needed to teach it to myself all over again because I know how I learn. And so I used my tax return actually to go out and buy myself my first laptop, and I threw away those old G D books that I had gotten forever ago, that I felt like. As weird as it sounds, I felt like they were tainted. Ah, and I remember the

spk_0:   12:34
moment bad you do on

spk_1:   12:36
Yes, that's kind of screamed failure to me on and not dedicated enough. And all of those things. I remember the moment that I threw those into our dumpster at the bottom of Caleb, my best friend, who I lived with at the time at the bottom of our apartment, and that was like a freeing feeling, so I completely started fresh. I went out and bought that computer. I bought new books and I started for real.

spk_0:   13:01
So just a question for me to you and I have talked about a lot of stuff before, and maybe there'll be some stuff that will come up different ways but says there's other people listening or people that might be going through similar things. What was it like or what did it feel like for you at the time, having not graduated high school and sort of having this thing kind of weighing on you because something motivated you to go? I got to do this now, like I need to make some sort of change. I'm going to delete all my social media. I mean that you are making serious efforts to get Tau buckle down and make this thing happen. And what was the driving force behind that or what was the feeling that sat with you about not having a high school diploma?

spk_1:   13:41
It's actually pretty emotional. I sat with that for a long time, and it looking back, I wish that I wasn't so hard on myself. But at the same time, this is what drove me to really start at that time. But taking it back, yeah, I hold that with me for a really long time. I felt like a failure. I felt like way behind all of my friends. You know, I had this construction in my head of where I was supposed to be in what I was supposed to be doing. And this thing that I had so to speak failed on was holding me back from all of these things that I thought I wanted to be doing.

spk_0:   14:20
So, like it was actually holding you back from going on to school or getting certain types of jobs or whatever, but then also, just emotionally sort of holding you back in the sense of making you feel you didn't have the ray your self worth was tied to it. You felt like you weren't as smart as other people or whatever. All of these things, because you had other stressors and things in your life at the time in school, just wasn't a priority. And you just decided to start working. And so but it like it left an imprint on how you feel Felt about yourself? Yeah.

spk_1:   14:48
Yes, absolutely. It completely messed with my self worth it My confidence, my relationships, you name it. If you have something that's weighing on you that hard, no matter what it is, it really, really affected me. And I could get way into a pit. You can kind of just kind of just kind of ruined me. I feel like

spk_0:   15:09
it. What's it?

spk_1:   15:10
Uh, it was the reason that I was bitter. I was jealous. I was all these negative things in so many different aspects of my life because I felt like I was stuck and less than yes. And the self talk that I was going through all of those years of not being able to move forward because of this one thing that I felt like I could not finish was terrible.

spk_0:   15:35
Yeah, I could imagine. And I got to see, like, little bits of that. And I've seen the transformation to over the years and all of that stuff. Um I keep seeing tears well up a little bit here and there in your eyes. So at that point, you decided this guy Jay is not for me. So you were teaching yourself. The GT is broken down into, like, different sections, right? English history, math. And you had, I think when when you and I were talking, you had passed like the English or the history you were taking him in chunks. Yeah, and then I think you did the science or something. But the math was like, really holding you back.

spk_1:   16:15
Yes. So I decided to stop going out as much. Um, and really stay in and buckle down on this, right? I started you tubing. And then I figured out that there was a place nearby where I could take the tests and that this specific place had the tests available in increments. So I started with what I knew that I felt like I was the most confident in, which was English. And I was really stoked that I could break it up like that. So, yeah, I started with the English. Like you said, I passed that I was the most incredible feeling ever.

spk_0:   16:48
That was the 1st 1

spk_1:   16:50
Yeah. Yeah. First try

spk_0:   16:52
on this new thing you're trying to do. You're scared to do it and try Like what if you fail? What if you actually can't? But then you gotta win right out the gate.

spk_1:   17:00
Yes. And mind you. Before when I had tried to go to Mira Costa before this, before I moved downtown. Actually, I had had a complete full blown panic attack, which I don't feel like most people. I don't think I told anybody. Maybe my mom. But I had a panic attack in the parking lot and I could not even go into signed up to take classes.

spk_0:   17:23
Like trying to walk into miracles. And that

spk_1:   17:26
s o for me to go and pass this English right off the bat was beyond a win for me,

spk_0:   17:33
right? So then that that motivated you to keep, try and keep studying. You got the other one? The one I'm working up to, though, as somewhere somewhere in there, while you're still studying and doing this. You Ah, you didn't get back on social media. But you texted me out of the blue one day. We hadn't talked for a while.

spk_1:   17:52
Yes, I remember the exact stoplight that I was at and you popped into my head for whatever reason. And I just I thought to myself I I should text him. I have no idea what it was that made me think of you. But so I texted you instantly. Right there. at that stoplight and

spk_0:   18:14
you had said before to your text in your you're talking to your mom too, or something. And your mom's kind of, like saying, Like, What about that Jake guy

spk_1:   18:21
about that Jake Guy

spk_0:   18:23
s o? Meanwhile, I didn't know any of this. I didn't know why you had disappeared or whatever, but I think which is interesting for me at this point to Because and we can we'll talk maybe about some attachment theory and stuff as we maybe get into our relationship stuff. But I used to be the guy that would go out on one date with somebody and then if I felt it was a good time. I text that person immediately the next day. And if I didn't get a response, I'd send, like, 20 texts in a row, you know, until it, like a true story that actually happened was me texting somebody who had a good time. No responses. A Tuesday, I think. Middle of the day. The no response. So then I started racking my brain, panicking. Was it what I said at the end of the night? What did we get to vulnerable? Did it whatever. So that I'm sending all of these things and I'm getting no response so that I'm adjusting and sending more things. And eventually the person text me and says, I'm at work, dude, Like, leave me alone, you know, s so that was the the anxious attachment in me. And I used to struggle with that big time feeling like people were gonna leave whatever. But at this point, I had done a bunch of work on myself, and I was dating and other things, too. And so when you disappeared, I kind of didn't really like freak out. It was just kind of like, all right, it doesn't mean that it's something about me. Something's happening in her life or whatever. And so then when you did text me again and come back, it wasn't also like, where the hell you been or what do you do? And it was just kind of like, Hey, it's good to hear from you, you know, And then we kind of picked up texting again. And I think at some point during that you explain to me what you've been doing to

spk_1:   20:03
Yes, and I kind of wonder what if Maybe that beginning of passing part of that kind of built a confidence or something. Just a slight confidence where I was like, Oh, I'm gonna text this guy. Oh, yeah. You know,

spk_0:   20:19
we've never talked about that.

spk_1:   20:20
I've never really thought about it.

spk_0:   20:22
And I don't know, actually what we're doing live therapy. So then we're hanging out. We're talking. I remember I used to come over. I'd be like editing pictures sitting on your couch. You'd be studying watching YouTube videos or doing something, but at this point, I think I had finished grad school. I was working in Carlsbad at the treatment center, and I remember the day that we've been we can go back to our first date and all of that, because that's a funny, interesting story. But this is just particular to your story and you and what's so inspiring and cool. I remember when you were getting ready to go take the math tests and you had already failed a couple times or something. And so I was like waiting on pins and needles all day to find out. Did you pass? Did you not pass?

spk_1:   21:07
If I'm remembering, right, I actually think I Science was one of the ones that I failed. And I'm not particularly sure if I ever failed the math, which was

spk_0:   21:18
you just put it

spk_1:   21:19
off. I put it off to the very end. And if I'm remembering right, Kayla would No, actually, she was the one because I was so nervous. Toe, Look at each of the test scores at the end of it, which they were on this online portal, I would call her and have her check them while she's at work. And then call me to tell me if I passed or failed.

spk_0:   21:41
You just didn't want us. You couldn't bear the

spk_1:   21:43
lake. Should not mayor. Yes, it was too nerve wracking. It sent me into full blown anxiety attack.

spk_0:   21:49
So I remember being at work waiting. I was in the middle of a treatment team meeting or something, and I get a phone call from you. And I knew that that was gonna be you had taken the test or something. And I answered. I ran out of the room and I answered the phone and on the other end of the phone, I just hear

spk_1:   22:04
I fuck it passed on.

spk_0:   22:07
Now is the last one you had to pass in order to get your g e

spk_1:   22:10
t toe like fully graduate. And here I am, 26 years old. This had been hanging over me for so long, and everyone around me knew it that that this thing was just absolutely eating me up inside and keeping me from beauty school. In all of these things that I had dreamt about for so long, this was the thing. And Kahlo was crying too. I actually did not believe her. And

spk_0:   22:35
with you,

spk_1:   22:36
Yes. Since we're cussing on this, I will tell you she's like, you fucking pass. And I was like, Shut the fuck up. I did not pass like I don't believe you. And, uh, then, of course, it just started bawling, crying.

spk_0:   22:48
So what did it feel like at that moment? To accomplish something that this was a long time coming? This is a big goal. And you had to put in a lot of work to do it right? Like you don't even have a computer. And you went out and bought with your tax return your own first computer and then you did it. You past this thing,

spk_1:   23:09
It was kind of the first time I was ever proud of myself. Yeah. Effort. I think that my whole life,

spk_0:   23:16
like, the first time, you ever actually really felt like pride.

spk_1:   23:19
I don't think that I had ever I had been proud of other people before. Plenty of other people. I don't think I had ever been proud of myself until that moment.

spk_0:   23:27
Yeah. He didn't know you were gonna cry so much from this today, did you?

spk_1:   23:30
I figured it's not a huge shock.

spk_0:   23:33
It's a big thing to be proud of, though, to just any goal, whatever size, whatever. It was something that was so important to you. And you went after it and you did it and then it unlocked, like your future. Like, what can you do now? You know,

spk_1:   23:46
it was really cool. And even a more prideful experience, I think because I did teach myself, I I had such a problem learning from other people, and I finally found this epiphany. I had this epiphany of like, Oh, my gosh, you know what? I'm just gonna teach myself and like, knowing that I did every single step of that was just Yeah, it made it even more special to me because it was just all on me and I did it finally.

spk_0:   24:12
Ah, and I was, like, beyond proud for you and just so happy. And I think it's hard to remember all the details of that. But at that point, we were getting a lot closer. We've been hanging out and stuff, you know? So is just I knew who you were as a person and this person that I was starting to have feelings for injustice, most kind, loving, caring person. But then having this thing that I could tell wait on you and made you feel bad. So there was so much elation for me to just being like,

spk_1:   24:40
Yes, you did it. You know, you were so supportive. And and that was something in the very beginning since you had just graduated college. And here I am, just graduated high school. But the first thing that I really accomplished for us to go through that together, I think was a really good start to a possible relationship because we weren't even official at that time. We

spk_0:   25:01
were just hanging out.

spk_1:   25:03
What unquote hanging out, hooking up a little of that, Uh,

spk_0:   25:08
that was It was cool. That was one of many things at four years now, indoor Alicia. But that was supporting each other and building each other up and kind of lifting each other toe achieve goals. Ah, OK, so we're going to continue with some of that story, but just to go back to our first date because you still to this day, and I had no be interesting for other people to hear my suave moves. But I asked you out on a date like an official asked you out? Yes. Picked you up, Open your car door for you.

spk_1:   25:44
He did. I

spk_0:   25:45
was really trying to put the moves on.

spk_1:   25:47
Yeah, I was really shocked that I said yes to you. Picking me up to accept was kind of my thing. I always wanted an out with people, so I always drove myself,

spk_0:   25:55
which is a smart move in this day and age, you know, the day of the age of tender and such. You kind of like you don't know what you're getting into. But you and I have been talking for a while and all

spk_1:   26:04
that. Yeah, and we have had so many mutual friends too. so yeah, you finally asked me out

spk_0:   26:09
and are some of our friends we worked with were kind of like Yes, dude, go out. Goodness. So not to toot my own horn, but,

spk_1:   26:15
well, thank you

spk_0:   26:16
to them for this.

spk_1:   26:18
Yeah, half of all us, actually. All of us to think, Which is the restaurant we worked at? It should probably feel that loss alone. Yes. So we had a mutual friend and I was, to be honest, I was kind of dating somebody else at that time to or, you know, this

spk_0:   26:34
is coming

spk_1:   26:34
Well, before we had gone on the date that ISS. So I was

spk_0:   26:38
like, the same day you wouldn't

spk_1:   26:41
know. I was like, you know, I'm kind of, you know, still seeing so and so. But j asked me out on a date. Should I say yes like I don't I don't know about I don't know about this and ah, they're like, Dude, dude, trust me to rust me. It will be the biggest mistake if you do not go out with him. I was like, Oh, my gosh,

spk_0:   27:01
I just like to hear this part of the story U S o the main part, and I don't want to spend too much time on this. But where we went on the date, we, ah, had been talking for a long time. We've been hanging out. I don't remember the progression of did we date and then we were hanging out hooking up or had we had a couple of little hangout hook up things, and then we went on a day I don't remember, but

spk_1:   27:24
no, we we went on a traditional first free. Yes, yet

spk_0:   27:28
And But on that first date after the date, I said, Would you like to come back to my place? And as we were driving home, I just told you, I just wanna let you know that if you do come over, I'm probably gonna try to make out with you. And how did you feel about that comment?

spk_1:   27:46
Here I am. We have been talking for hours at this really cute restaurant, and then you're driving me home. I think the dates over and then you come out like we had already been talking about so many vulnerable things, right? This caught me so off guard one. I had never had anybody be so honest and to. I just I was just, like, sweating like Oh, my God, Is this weird that this guy is saying this like, is he actually really creepy? Or is this like, cool honesty? I really could not decide. And so I think I nervously laughed. And, um

spk_0:   28:22
I mean, at this point, I think I've been dating on and off a lot different people, whatever. And that was just kind of my the anticipation and the anxiety of like, you invite somebody to come back to your place, and then you do the whole Netflix and whatever. Or you just like sitting around talking forever and you kind of know you want to make out at some point there's There's a reason we all came to this place. There's a reason I invited you in and you're here. I mean, we we both kind of are in the same mindset. But for me, what used to drive me nuts? Is that anticipation of, like, when do I make the first move? And how long is it going to go in all of this? So I just felt like you know what? I'm just gonna lay it out. Hey, so it's not a surprise. And it's at some point I'm gonna try to make a move on you. And maybe we could just skip the two hours of pretending. We don't think that's gonna happen. And we'll just right. But we still we went back and talked for a long time, and

spk_1:   29:20
so I went back home. I told you, I think about it. All right, Look, I'll let you know in a little bit. I went home. I talked to my best friend, Cayla, who I lived with. And I remember sitting and telling Kayla I don't know what to do. And she said, Don't go. Okay, let's talk together. Yes. Leave him waiting. Don't go. Of course I was like, Well, I'm gonna go.

spk_0:   29:42
It was that. Is that enticing?

spk_1:   29:44
Ah, there was a mystery about it that you were so that that specific sentence and our whole conversation was so different. It was just very mysterious to me. And like, I have to go.

spk_0:   29:57
So neither say, came over. Yep. We hung out. We talked. We made out a little bit. And then you went home. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. And then what at, At that point, the relationship progressed and went on, and we were dating on and off for a long time. And then it was coming towards the end of I forget what month it was or whenever it was. But both of our leases were ending at the same time. And you and I had only been official dating for, like, three months. And you said to me one day, I don't want Do you want it? Correct me on

spk_1:   30:33
this. No, I'd like to add something before. Okay. So your lease you had been working up in Carlsbad at the treatment center, and you're

spk_0:   30:43
driving like an hour. Yes, over two hours, sometimes

spk_1:   30:47
over the commute. And Kayla had just told me that she is moving in with her now. Husband. Then boyfriend and I had a certain amount of months. So your lease was up. Pretty much My lease with my best friend at least was up.

spk_0:   31:01
You're either gonna have to find a new roommate or figure out a new place to live or

spk_1:   31:04
some cracked. Right? So now you can.

spk_0:   31:06
So you we were sitting and you asked, or you said, I don't want to sound crazier. I don't want to sound weird, But what if we moved in together and and I responded, It doesn't. I didn't want to make you feel crazy. I don't want to make you feel bad. I didn't want to stigmatize whatever. There's no rules on it. But I said, you know, I don't think I like where this is going, what we have right now. And I think moving in together would be a bit big step and probably wouldn't work. And then what happened after that?

spk_1:   31:36
So I agreed. Even though I identity really agree, I was obviously very understanding. It took so much in me to even have that conversation. So I was embarrassed and sweating. And then, you know, few weeks went by. We were getting yogurt and your frozen yogurt, late night, having a little date, and you just plain and simple it, like if he was like, midnight. You said I changed my mind was like, change your mind about what you're like. I changed my mind about what you asked me.

spk_0:   32:08
How is that it?

spk_1:   32:09
Yeah, I remember exact details of this stuff because that was such a important moment to me. I was like, Oh, my gosh,

spk_0:   32:17
It was like, Let's go for it. Let's do it.

spk_1:   32:19
Specific rules where you have to find a place and not Oceanside.

spk_0:   32:23
I said you have to find the

spk_1:   32:25
place. Well, because you were so busy working and stuff you did not want Thio look into finding a place at all.

spk_0:   32:31
Right? But I did find the place,

spk_1:   32:33
right? Okay.

spk_0:   32:36
I just want to be clear. Ah, so anyway, yeah, fast forward. All the four months into dating, which traditionally, a lot of people would be like. That's nuts. What are you doing? But we found a two. We moved to North County San Diego. We found a two bedroom, two bath on purpose, and then you moved all of your furniture into one room and I moved all of my furniture into the master bedroom, and we kind of obviously, like, slept in the same bed. But we also had a space that the plan was if shit hits the fan and we find out we don't like each other, whatever. We can try to be adults about it and be roommates for a bit. And then if somebody had to move out, But we had our own separate spaces to sort of separate bathroom. And this separate bathrooms was was crucial. Yeah,

spk_1:   33:21
that was like a non negotiable, right? We had never lived with spouses before either of us. So significant others. Yes, significant others.

spk_0:   33:31
So it worked. I mean, it was great in the beginning, Adjust adjustment. Moving in was Ah, there was a little bit of fighting. I mean, we you and I don't fight much at all. And we do a lot of work around ourselves and around our relationship and stuff, and we can talk about that, but something about moving in in the beginning drove up a lot of stuff. And so we were getting it. Maybe it was just too close for comfort, or it was just a calibration of living with another person and living with a significant other. But there was a lot of escalation, as we would call it from time to time.

spk_1:   34:10
Yeah, those first few weeks were cloud nine. And then, you know, we we were adjusting to sharing a space. I basically we both lived alone pretty much before. Kayla was never home. And so yeah,

spk_0:   34:27
right. So I mean, when we first moved in, we were we had went out bought or so we were like we bought toys. We had dark guns. We replay. It was fun. We had a space that we had just moved in together, and we were just like, loving it, having a good time and then the stuff. We started to get annoyed by certain things and whatever else. But I mean, we worked through a lot of that stuff and one of the things that we did in our relationship, and I don't know how long we had actually been together, but we we because I'm ah E f T therapists or I'm trained and emotionally focused therapy, which is a therapy that's branched out now and the individuals and families or whatever. But it was kind of primarily for couples, and it's based on attachment theory and all these other things. So I had this language already. I kind of understood the dynamics of what I was doing, and I still trying to work through this reactive place where if I feel like you're pulling away from me, I get really anxious and I freak out. I mean, even still to this day, if we're in a little bit of a tiff and you roll over in bed. My heart will be beating like crazy, cause it's that space of like, I'm losing you or something's happening and I need to try to fix it right now. But I have also learned through all of this now to that you have the more avoidant place. And if I if I get up in your space and try to solve the problem, it's going to make everything worse because you shut down. You can't find the words, and that's what we were dealing with a lot in the beginning. You mean you would go into your own room and white, just like need to get away. And then you used to tell me in your head you would have

spk_1:   36:00
packed all your shit like we could be

spk_0:   36:02
in a fight about the trash or something. But you're in your head. And maybe based on previous experience and relationships and whatever else that was a sign shit's hitting the fan. The relationship is doomed. You've packed all your things in your head and you're gone. You're plotting your escape.

spk_1:   36:18
Yes, I'm going back to live with Kayla, and I've probably already told her that it points and and Yeah, I that was just My instinct was this is so This feels so bad to me right now. This is the only thing I know how to do is either sabotage and run away or just Yep. I was in my head just totally packing my shit and leaving

spk_0:   36:38
right and then sew like. And I understand that as that's the avoidance. That's the avoided attachment. That's your strategy.

spk_1:   36:44
And I had no idea about anxious attachment. Avoid him attached. You know, I didn't learn all of that quite yet,

spk_0:   36:52
and and that's the sort of natural dance I mean, people fall into different patterns with their attachment styles, but anxious and avoiding their kind of the big calm, most common ones. And it's a pursuer distance or so the more you pull away because you're shutting down, you're you're just What you're trying to do is just preserve yourself emotionally. Basically, whatever's happening is so distressing that your technique that you've learned how to at least just keep yourself regulated is move away from whatever the conflict is. Shut it down. My strategy that I've learned is when people are pulling away from me. It's so distressing and so scary that I try to figure out how to keep him closer. But those strategies sort of become haywire, and they cause more problems. And so this was something that we had to work through. But I specifically remember I used to leave a lot like I wouldn't in my head. I wasn't leaving the relationship you and your head or packing things and being gone. But I would go to like, Barnes and Noble on walk around or I'd go eat. That was one thing I would

spk_1:   37:48
have your head. I

spk_0:   37:49
would go eat. Just cause I was like, this will make you mad, huh? Rude, right. But the I remember a conversation that we had and kind of understanding from an attachment lend is what we sat down after an argument one time, too. And I tried to explain to you that that, like, I'm I'm not ever going anywhere. I hope that you understand that. And then when we get in an argument about whatever, we need to learn different ways to argue and not have it escalate to that place. But I want you to understand that just because we're arguing I'm not ever going to go anywhere. I'm not leaving you, and I think that not to put it on me, But I think you feeling

spk_1:   38:27
that, though,

spk_0:   38:28
like understanding that we can get in an argument, we could have a problem, but it doesn't mean that the relationship is burnt to the ground. It just means we're fighting about something. I think that in itself sort of de escalated a lot of stuff.

spk_1:   38:43
I agree. I think that that was the first time anyone had ever told me that and that I really felt like that was true, that Wow, you're really not going anywhere. Even after I acted a certain way Or I did something stupid Or, you know, you really weren't going anywhere.

spk_0:   39:00
Well, I probably was the one doing the stupid things,

spk_1:   39:04
You know what I mean? Saying something that I regret or something. It wasn't anything major. It was honestly, a little tips that most couples get into,

spk_0:   39:11
right? And then they would just blow up like a little misunderstanding. And then it would just be this World War three. And I mean, yeah, we had some pretty good ones that the purse throwing incident was

spk_1:   39:24
I could be a little dramatic.

spk_0:   39:26
Yeah, and I obviously can be a little Ah, explosive. Yes, I get loud. And that's part of my strategy is like, if I condone Omine ate this thing by being loud, then maybe I'll control the situation somehow or something

spk_1:   39:41
very interesting dynamic not to get too much into this. But you were the first relationship, as far as I know and can remember that I shut down around you and I actually got calm. And of course, I was emotional and crying and things like that, and I would exclude myself and be withdrawn. But I was always the explosive one in other relationships, and I was always the one self sabotaging the relationship to get out of it. To make things easier, this all was new. And

spk_0:   40:14
so you think some of that the flipping that the the shutdown place came from really a like house relationships? You're like, I don't give a shit. I'm gonna explode. I'm gonna yell, I don't get I don't care. But then some of this was a really fear Now of losing this relationship that you were invested in and cared about and all of that. And so it became this kind of scary place. Like if I say something wrong in this moment or if I same or it's gonna escalate, and then we're really gonna fall apart and so you just sort of, like, get more and more closed off. Kind of.

spk_1:   40:45
Exactly. You said it perfect. Yeah,

spk_0:   40:48
that's what I do. So yeah, I mean, hopefully some of this soon we can get in more, but the just trying to give this understanding of our dynamic and all of that to help other people see one. Everybody fights. You're always gonna fight. It's really about how you fight, right? There's research. Gottman, Sue Johnson. All of these people, John Gottman, they're all relationship experts and they talk about this. It's you're always gonna fight. But it's how you it's how you fight. Do you bring everything in the kitchen sink in? Are you critical? Are you saying things from the past and things you shouldn't say or are you just sort of focused on the thing And then also a lot of the attachment stuff that I do through emotionally focused therapy itself to is how do you? How do you come back to each other afterwards and talk about it and repair? And can you get vulnerable and actually talk about? So what I think happened for me was I got embarrassed or I felt not good enough. And then that made me kind of fly through the roof and get angry or whatever.

spk_1:   41:50
That was a game changer for me to learn. Waas. I had never fought with anybody and then had a conversation after about it, about what each person was feeling in that moment and and really dial in tow. What the emotions that the actual emotions deep down were usually not anger and frustration. And, you know, all the name calling, whatever it was that I was embarrassed about something or, you know, just how vulnerable I was really sad and like that really hurt my feelings or whatever, that it was a game changer for me,

spk_0:   42:25
and you're actually better at it than me 11 times now. Truthfully, I mean, you can really I don't know. There's a lot of times in the moment where you're really I'm I'm escalating. My nervous system is like buzzing and my heart's beating and adrenaline's going. And it actually helps me, though, too, because I see you in a calmer place or I see sadness in your eyes or something. And then it stops me and be like, I don't wanna argue like this or I don't So you and I now rarely argue one of the things that was really beneficial for us, too, I think, and we didn't necessarily go because we needed to at the time. But we we went to a workshop that was put on by Dr Rebecca Jorgensen, and she's one of, um, I'm actually on the bored of the same new center for you have tea with her and some other therapists, but they're emotionally focused therapists for couples. Um, and there's a workshop called Hold Me Tight and it's a book about all this stuff. So we read the book together. Then we went to the workshop and in the workshop. You learn all of this language and all of these things, and then it sort of works you through. It took us even. We had conversations there that we hadn't even had yet, and we learned some stuff about each other, and that was another place where you and I had shared language about some of the stuff. And then we can both sort of understand why we're doing what we're doing. You don't take it as personally or you don't get as defensive.

spk_1:   43:45
Yeah, I learned a lot from that. I had heard bits and pieces, you know, about ft. And about the dance and the what were talking about earlier the anxious attachment versus all of these things, right? But we went so far deep into it in these courses, and it was two days dedicated that we put in and of course, numbers of hours talking at home. But we put in so much effort in these courses into just our relationship, learning about how we deal with things, learning about more about our attachment styles and past things in our lives that we think

spk_0:   44:21
one of the big things right is like the raw spots like, yeah, that's the place. The little seed of insecurity or something that usually triggers something. So when you're arguing about, did the dishwasher get unloaded? You know, and maybe it's something that I've done 20 times or whatever else. Then I start Thio. It's not that I'm mad that the dishwasher is not being demoted. It's like, Do I? Do you value the things that I'm doing around here or vice for? I mean, it's the same for you on the other side, but it's it comes back to what they call attachment needs, which are just basically like. Am I important to you? Am I accepted? Do you value me? Do you need me all these other things? And then if you look at the the core of every argument, it's usually about one of those things. But then instead, you're arguing about some bullshit that just keeps you stuck and you're despite your nit picking about. Well,

spk_1:   45:11
you said. And then you said That's not

spk_0:   45:13
what I said. You know,

spk_1:   45:14
really, it's about nothing. None of that

spk_0:   45:16
right. It's just like, Hey, sometimes I feel

spk_1:   45:19
like I'm not being heard

spk_0:   45:20
right. I feel lonely. I don't feel whatever. So here we are now you and I really don't fight that much. If we do fight, it's pretty much over within a few minutes. Most the time. It's about some misunderstanding, and I'm trying to, like, hone in on the right words that I said, And the thing or some stupid

spk_1:   45:39
terrifies, lightly round accident, Yeah,

spk_0:   45:41
but now, even because we've continued to build these things in this trust in our relationship, and we truly both feel secure and safe and that we're not going in there were in the relationship, even in the middle of a fight. Like if we're arguing about something and you could literally look at me like I want to punch you in your mouth right now, you know,

spk_1:   45:59
kind of our thing, Yeah, and

spk_0:   46:00
we say that as that's what's called like a repair attempt to because we its attempt to sort of make the other person laugh. And what I think is so important about it is that there's no it doesn't feel like a comment meant to be made to, like, hurt the other person or to get mad. It's something that neither of us think. I don't ever think that you actually want to punch me in the mouth.

spk_1:   46:22
All those on you do, but it's

spk_0:   46:25
not. There's no offense taken to it because it doesn't. It's a silly thing, right, and it's not something that's like it's meant to make us laugh and then go. Oh, God, we're being ridiculous.

spk_1:   46:36
Are we doing less? I love a good repair attempt at this point. Yeah, I pull out all the sent. The dis is, um

spk_0:   46:44
and there. I mean, it's hard sometimes to because it takes two people toe when you make a repair attempt. And if I'm still fired up about something, I can either dismiss it and plow through and keep going or I can go. I see what you're trying to do, and I can I need to reflect on what? Why I'm doing what I'm doing and then we can scale it down. And

spk_1:   47:03
exactly I think

spk_0:   47:04
for the most part now, if we get in any little tiffs 5 10 minutes later, we're both coming back together and Mike laughing again and yeah, that's that's sort of round about way. Well, here we are in our relationship Now, back Thio, maybe some of the schooling stuff when we first moved in together, basically shortly thereafter, you were working at the restaurant Still, and then you decided you applied and you started going to beauty school.

spk_1:   47:32
Yeah, I finally began,

spk_0:   47:35
and that was something that you had been wanted to Dio your whole life you the g e d or the diploma was holding you back.

spk_1:   47:42
Yeah, I remember actually middle school. A little school or might have been early high school. This is gonna date myself a little bit, but looking in the phone book and calling beauty schools and asking, how old do you have to be and and how far do you have to get through high school to come to your school? So I had been thinking about this for a very, very long time and plotting Probably plotting, dropping out of high school way before I realised.

spk_0:   48:09
Thank you. Worry. Maybe you think I'll drop out of high school and just go into a beauty school? And they're like, Yo, you have a diploma.

spk_1:   48:16
Exactly. Which was really disappointing. Right? So here I am. Yeah. I had been thinking about it for really, really, really long time. And it wasn't easy getting in, you know, I didn't get Grant. I didn't get anything like that. I saved and paid for myself.

spk_0:   48:33
You got some loans,

spk_1:   48:35
right? Yeah, loans and then had to pay payments while I was in. And, you know, it just it wasn't easy

spk_0:   48:42
starting something new. But you had. And so what I think also is were about 10 minutes away from an hour we've been going and talking. So I feel like we have so much to share and talk about with our relationship and your story and life in general, whatever that I feel like we're gonna sort of leave this as a cliffhanger right here. And then we're gonna do this again. It's kind of fun sitting here.

spk_1:   49:09
Yeah, sounds good.

spk_0:   49:10
Do you? I mean, are you Are you willing to come back and sit here with me and record again?

spk_1:   49:16
Absolutely. I feel like we have a lot more that we could dive into, especially in our current relationship and where we're at now because I think it is unique and a little bit juicy from time to time. Yeah, what we're able to talk about,

spk_0:   49:30
right? That's something that I had written down and wanted to get to. But I really also wanted just incorporate your story and where you've come, where you're going, all of that, how it plays into our relationship. So to sort of leave a cliffhanger on that you got into beauty school you had multiple family members who have been in the beauty industry and does hair. Your mom went to beauty school does nails all this other stuff, right? And so you kind of had this idea for yourself that your is gonna be a cakewalk. You got this?

spk_1:   50:02
Yeah. I thought I was gonna be really easy. Thought I was just gonna be good from the get go.

spk_0:   50:08
And what was it really like?

spk_1:   50:11
It was so hard.

spk_0:   50:12
I mean, even just in that first week, what did you feel?

spk_1:   50:15
Well, in the first week, I first couple days was great. I felt like I really finally found somewhere that I belonged, and it felt really good. And then it instantly went to Oh, my God, this is not what I thought it was going to be.

spk_0:   50:32
You kind of butted up against the first, Maybe like some things that challenged you a little bit or something. And then the discomfort around that was cool, that I got to go and they Oh, yeah, and even just school stuff, like coming back up past school things. I don't know how to study. I'm not smart or whatever. The things that you were feeling about yourself, but and I remember you just being like,

spk_1:   50:55
Nope, Nope. Peace out

spk_0:   50:56
isn't for me and yeah, more. So it was just the fear the avoidance came up and then it was I don't think this is for me. This is the wrong path for me,

spk_1:   51:06
right? And that was my mechanism. My whole life. Just

spk_0:   51:10
kind of run when it gets

spk_1:   51:11
and to quit. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0:   51:12
And what did I tell you?

spk_1:   51:14
There's no way you're quitting. I think

spk_0:   51:16
I said get

spk_1:   51:16
your ass up out of bed. They're going to school. Yeah. What's

spk_0:   51:21
too soon to know if this is for you or not? You're going? I think it was maybe a couple of times. Get

spk_1:   51:26
to fuck up. It's

spk_0:   51:27
time to go. Get out the house.

spk_1:   51:29
You're not sick. It was like a kid. You're not sick. You're going to school. Yeah. Come on. I'm gonna make you coffee. Get up. I've got a car. Black.

spk_0:   51:40
Uh, so, yeah, I think maybe we'll leave it at that because there's some funny other stories, like no, through beauty school. And there's been different times throughout the relationship, which is really cool to and that you while you were going through beauty school, I was working a salary job and I was doing a little bit better. So I was helping pay for things. And then there was times when I left that and I started my private practice and you were making more money and steady. And I'd have to be sort of processing my ideas of what a man is supposed to be in all this and be like, Babe, can you pay my student loan

spk_1:   52:13
for me? So I think there's

spk_0:   52:15
a lot more to tell. I didn't really know how deep we're going to get into some different stuff, but I really think it would be cool to sit down and keep this story going. And this is probably a good spot to wrap it up for today.

spk_1:   52:27
I think so, too. Sounds good.

spk_0:   52:29
I appreciate you getting vulnerable, sharing all of this. I mean, I know you've shared a lot before, but it was actually really cool just to sit with you and see you talk about some of these things that maybe you and I haven't talked about in the same way before. Just to see how emotional it was for you. And how that that space of you just feeling that pride when you got your g e d and to look in your eyes right now we're talking about and just see, like where you are now, who you are now from that girl, even from the girl that I first met. But woman Oh, you But to whoever you were before I met you And what led up to all those beliefs about yourself in all of that and then just see you thriving and kicking ass. Now it's just cool. And it makes me proud to be your partner.

spk_1:   53:16
You make me cry all over again.

spk_0:   53:18
I'm trying t

spk_1:   53:18
o start it Tugged at my heartstrings for four years. Thank you. Um, I'm hopefully just by sharing it, even if it remotely inspires one person to just follow through and and tryto push through a lot of discomfort and old belief systems and stuff. If it can just help one person to rethink finishing something and fighting through something that been wanting to do for a really long time than you know, that'd be rad. Yeah. Oh, thanks for having me. I can't wait till the next one.

spk_0:   53:51
I'm excited to beauty. Thing is, we can do anything we want. So let's go eat some ice cream and ah, get in bed and watching Netflix

spk_1:   54:01
Sounds good. All right.