Is That Even Legal?
Is That Even Legal?
How a Pro Bono Case Changed Lives Across Continents - an Asylum Victory
When Taylor Barlow decided to take on a pro bono asylum case, he never imagined it would become the most emotionally significant work of his legal career. His client's story reads like a political thriller – a peaceful activist from Togo who organized an 800,000-person march against a dictatorial regime, only to face years of brutal retaliation including kidnappings, beatings, and torture.
After military police broke into his home, beating him and his young son unconscious, this father of two made the heartbreaking choice to leave his family behind and flee for his life. What followed was a harrowing two-month journey through South and Central America, including the notoriously deadly Darién Gap jungle crossing, where "one in three migrants die." Twice kidnapped in Mexico before finally reaching the U.S. border, he was immediately detained and placed in removal proceedings.
This episode takes listeners deep into the complex, often misunderstood asylum process. We witness Barlow's fight against nearly impossible odds – a 90-minute hearing (reduced from four hours) to present a decade of persecution, technical legal barriers because his client crossed without an appointment, and the gut-wrenching realization that even proving all elements of asylum might not be enough as "asylum is completely discretionary."
The emotional climax comes when Barlow's rarely successful motion for reconsideration is granted, securing his client's freedom and future. Beyond the legal victory, we glimpse the profound human impact as this new asylee sends his attorney a poignant photo of himself standing beneath an American flag on July 4th – a man who nearly died for the freedom to protest now finding refuge in a nation founded on that very principle.
What makes this story so compelling is how it puts a human face on asylum policy while showcasing the life-changing impact of pro bono legal work. As Barlow reflects, "This mattered to this guy and it mattered to his wife and to his little kids... I saw myself and I saw my kids in him and his kids."
Have you ever wondered what rights we take for granted? Listen now and consider what price others pay for freedoms we exercise daily without a second thought.
Is that even legal? It's a question we ask ourselves on a daily basis. We ask it about our neighbors, we ask it about our elected officials, we ask it about our family and sometimes we ask it to ourselves. The law is complex and it impacts everyone all the time, and that's why we are here. I'm attorney Bob Sewell and this is season five of the Worldwide Podcast that explores that one burning question. Is that even legal? Let's go. Today's guest in the show is Taylor Barlow. Taylor Barlow is a commercial litigation attorney at my firm and, Taylor, welcome to the show. Thanks, it's good to be back. You know I wanted to have you on. You know we've worked together for a little over a year now and I wanted to have you on because you recently did a case that I found fascinating. And, without getting into the legal aspects, tell me about your client. Tell me what happened?
Taylor Barlow:Yeah, sure, I mean I was sitting with my wife, you know, back in February or so what five months ago now wanting to take on a pro bono case, wanting to see where I could contribute and give back and try and do something good. You know, doing commercial litigation, working with businesses, is great, but you can only chase invoices for so long before you feel like that you want to do something else. But so, anyway, I took this pro bono case and I met this individual. He was placed with me as a pro bono client. He's a 31-year-old guy from Togo in Africa. It's a small country just to the east of Ghana.
Taylor Barlow:This client got involved with some political activism while he was there, while he was taking some college classes and really aligned with the political party that was in opposition to the party that was in power. The party in power came to power through a couple of military coups and has since changed the constitution and the procedure in that country to essentially give this family control over the country for life, and so this individual joined the opposition party and became an activist for constitutional reform. He organized what became the largest protest peaceful protest. It was a march in 2017. They gathered about 800,000 people for this march 800,000 people marched against the government.
Taylor Barlow:Yeah, in a small country like that it was overwhelming. Now they had a permit. They got a permit to protest, but I don't think the government really anticipated the sheer size.
Bob Sewell:He probably didn't either. No, I don't think the government really anticipated the sheer size. He probably didn't either. No, I don't think he did. 800 000 people protesting. That's just wow.
Taylor Barlow:Keep going so so he uh was there with his father and they're they're marching together with with everybody else as well. But seeing the sheer size, the government sends out their military police, uh, and military police uses live rounds, uses tear gas, uses physical violence to quell this march, in this opposition, uh, his father ended up, uh in the hospital, uh from his injuries and ultimately died, um, but he continued to protest. He took on that, that you know his father's legacy, if you will and continued to protest over the years, and I won't I'll spare you a lot of the gory details, but he was subjected to a variety of kidnappings and beatings and even torture from this government in power. At one point, they snatched him off the street and beat him and threw him into a room for three days. He thought that they had beat him blind because of how dark it was and for how long it was dark. Ultimately, they released him and said stop protesting. And they said this is a message from whatever the government official at the time was.
Taylor Barlow:Finally, he takes a new job and the government buys up his company and withholds pay as long as he's protesting, and so he has to stop to be able to provide for his family. By this time he has a wife and two kids. So he stops protesting for a couple of years and then, in 2024, last year, they, these military police, uh, break into his home and tie him up into a bag and they beat him in front of his children and, uh he, he falls unconscious and wakes up in a hospital, realizes that his son is there with him, because they had also attacked his son, who was uh three at the time, maybe four Um, and his son was also unconscious and they both woke up in the hospital together. Uh, some other things happened to his wife after he was unconscious and and things which I'll I'll spare the listeners here, but it it was pretty, um, pretty brutal.
Taylor Barlow:And it wasn't the only instance of this right, and so, finally, he gets a message from his religious leader. He's a Muslim and his imam is what his religious leader is called. His imam contacts him and said if they find out that they didn't kill you that night?
Taylor Barlow:they're going to come after you and your family. Again, you have to flee, and so he does. He takes the first visa he can, which is to Brazil, leaves his wife and kids behind because the journey is going to be too treacherous, and he starts his two-month journey up to the United States, taking a bus, taking a car when he can and walking when he can't. Ultimately, he makes it to. There's a gap. Actually, there's the Pan-American Highway. It goes all the way from South America, and the groups in there are so violent that they have not been able to complete the road in that section. So a lot of migrants have to walk through this jungle. It's the only way to cross through Central America. And so there is, you know, I read one account that said, one in three migrants die in this gap.
Taylor Barlow:So anyway, he makes it through and gets robbed multiple times throughout Peru and Panama and elsewhere, finally makes it to Mexico, where he's kidnapped by some armed groups and ransomed or required to pay like 15,000 pesos, I think and then they release him into the hands of the cartel, and so he's held by the cartel for another eight days, where he's forced to do construction, and there's some pretty gruesome photos I have from that time as well that I needed for evidence. And then he gets some money for ransom and he gets out of that group as well. Having already been kidnapped twice in Mexico, he says I can't stay here. He's trying to get an appointment to request asylum at the border, but the appointments are based on a lottery system. So every day he requests one and every day he gets denied. And, having already been kidnapped twice, he said I can't stay here and he just has to cross the border. And he does and immediately gets picked up by CBP and detained in an immigrant detention center.
Bob Sewell:Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So our system is so restrictive. So we have these asylum laws, right Right, but our system is restrictive enough that that, if you want to advance through the system, just cross over illegally. Is that what you're saying? I mean, you're not making a recommendation to people, but that's essentially what people are doing.
Taylor Barlow:No, so, so to request asylum, you have to be present in the United States. You can't request asylum from your home country, um, or even on your journey to the United States, you have to be in the United States or within a certain number of miles from the border. And it used to be that you could download what's called the CBP One app and you could request an appointment right as soon as you're within that certain number of miles from the Mexican border or the US-Mexican border. Rather, and it was again like I said, it's just a lottery system. So hopefully you get your appointment, and once you get your appointment, then you go and you can request asylum, and and then you're admitted into the United States while your asylum case is pending, um, that app no longer exists.
Taylor Barlow:There's no way to request asylum, uh, until you are illegally present in the United States, um, which is what happened, uh, happened in this individual's case. He had to just cross and was technically illegally present, unlawfully present, and so we can talk about this if you'd like. But there's two different types of asylum. You can request affirmative asylum, which is the first type, where you make an appointment and you request asylum affirmatively before a judge. And then there's defensive asylum. It's once you're in the United States and you're here unlawfully, and then they're going to deport you and you raise it as a defense against deportation.
Bob Sewell:Okay, and asylum is essentially that you believe what about yourself, if you're an immigrant? You believe what?
Taylor Barlow:That you're, for all intents and purposes, a refugee, that you've been so persecuted due to a protected ground that it's unsafe for you to be in your home country and the government can no longer protect you or is choosing not to protect you.
Bob Sewell:Okay. So what's the standard? How do you? How do you prove it?
Taylor Barlow:Yeah, so, like I said, you have to meet the definition of a refugee.
Bob Sewell:You have to show that you yep Before you, before you begin, that story's horrific. And the fact that you represented him. You know you're not getting anything right. Maybe blessings from God to help out another human being, but your wife didn't get anything from this because she saw you gone, right, this came out of your pocket, right? I mean, this is just you trying to do God's work here, so that's why I'm. You know, that's part of the fascination, and every attorney has done this in his career. Hopefully, if he or she is a good attorney where they've said, okay, I'm going to take on a passion project and this one is just absolutely horrific and yeah, anyways so and I'll add onto that I.
Taylor Barlow:If anybody deserves protection under asylum, you know, as I'm going through this case, that's all I could think about was, if anybody deserves it, it's this guy. His story is horrific and I'm only touching on on the main points here, you know you're giving me the pg version, pg 13 yeah yeah, I know, sure, okay.
Bob Sewell:So you get asylum, or rather rather, you to get asylum.
Taylor Barlow:You got to prove what yeah, you have to prove that you you're so persecuted in your home country and the government can't or won't protect you, and that you're persecuted for a particular reason, whether it's your race or your religion, nationality, political opinion or what they call membership in a particular social group. That's where a lot of the litigation occurs is do you fit within a particular social group, which can be anything? I'm part of this club that the government doesn't like, or I'm part of this, you know. Whatever else it may be, it can be as small as like family members of a particular individual or something like that but that part gets litigated a lot.
Bob Sewell:Okay. So he comes in and he says he gets picked up, probably knowing he's going to get picked up, probably hoping he gets picked up, right.
Taylor Barlow:He gave the CBP officer a big, big hug and he said I haven't felt safe in years.
Bob Sewell:He gives him a hug and he says I'm claiming asylum.
Taylor Barlow:Yes, and so at that point he gets a credible fear interview. Okay, the CBP officer gives him over to an asylum officer and he does this interview. Says what are you afraid of and are you credible in that fear? Um, and so he, and he was found to yes your fear is credible based on this story that you've given me, and you come off as credible to me, which then now puts him in asylum proceedings. He can make his case to the judge.
Bob Sewell:And I think Togo is French speaking.
Taylor Barlow:Yeah, most people there speak whatever native tribal language they speak and if they're educated and they've gone through the schooling system, they also speak French.
Bob Sewell:Okay, so is your client speaking French at this moment, or is he speaking English? What's going on?
Taylor Barlow:He's speaking French too. They must have an interpreter or somebody.
Bob Sewell:All right. So, for whatever reason, this guy comes off as credible and they make a finding. Is that what happened?
Taylor Barlow:Yeah, the asylum officer makes the threshold finding that he is credible and that he has a credible fear of returning to his home country.
Bob Sewell:Okay, At this point does he get to work in the United States, or what happens?
Taylor Barlow:No, he's detained, so he stays in immigrant detention. You sit in jail.
Bob Sewell:Yeah, for how long was he sitting there?
Taylor Barlow:He was there from when he was picked up in December until he was released Spoiler alert. Our claim was successful in June.
Bob Sewell:So he's sitting there. Does he have he? Does he get to call his family? Does he get to write us?
Taylor Barlow:You know, no, so he does have access to like a tablet where he can send messages through like this prisoner app, but it's like 25 cents per message and I don't know how much the calls are, but but especially international calls, I don't. I don't know that. But he did get to speak with his wife on occasion, but not frequently.
Bob Sewell:Okay, so once you get the credible fear interview, he, he sits in jail until his trial. Yes, okay, and so how many months go by and he gets trial, so he gets picked up in December.
Taylor Barlow:Well, he's traveling. I left this part out After he gets picked up. The government did come looking for him and did anyway he wasn't there and they tried to get his whereabouts out of his wife and you can imagine what she went through outs out of his wife and, uh, you can imagine what she went through, uh, but he didn't know of that until until the case had already begun and I'm gathering evidence for the case. I had to share that with him so that he knew of the evidence as we're presenting it. But, oh my gosh, anyway, um, sharing that with him was was one of the most difficult days of my career. Was sitting in here, sitting with him in the in the jail cell and letting him read a letter from his neighbor that tells him what happened to his wife after he left.
Bob Sewell:um, nikes, yeah, so you so, so I I take the case good. Later, after he gets picked up and he's been sitting in jail for seven months he gets a hearing. But what happened right before the hearing fascinated me. What happened?
Taylor Barlow:early March and I'm spending, you know, feverishly gathering evidence for his case over the next six weeks or so, because the hearing is in May. So from March to May I have to gather country conditions, evidence from an expert, I have to get a therapist to evaluate him to see, you know, what were the effects of this harm that he suffered or persecution that he suffered. What affidavits can I get from his friends and neighbors that would corroborate his story. All of that right, but anyway, yeah. So as we're preparing for the hearing I think it was the day of the hearing I get an updated order from the immigration judge that says that what was expected to be a four-hour, four-and-a-half-hour has now been condensed to 90 minutes split between me and Homeland Security. So I have 90, well, ostensibly 50 minutes to present decades of country history and and more than 10 years of persecution for this individual.
Bob Sewell:So, wait, wait. This is important, an important fact. So Article III judges right, there's an Article. No, there's an Article. I judge.
Taylor Barlow:Yes. So this is outside of the regular judiciary Right.
Bob Sewell:So this is not part of the judicial branch. This is part of the executive branch, yes, under the Department of Justice. And so the Department of Justice hires these administrative law judges and they say administrative law judge, you're our employee and you're the one that's going to try the case or listen to the case Not try the case, but listen to the case. And so this judge is ordered by the Department of Justice to reduce the amount of time from a four-hour trial to a 90-minute each trial. Right Hour and a half each.
Taylor Barlow:For each hearing? Yes, Not for each side.
Bob Sewell:The whole hearing is 90 minutes, correct, so it went from four hours to an hour and a half. Yes, and presumably you get the first 45 minutes and the other side gets the first 45 minutes right. Right, and the burden is on you yes to show that he meets the elements. To show that he meets the elements, the, the judge, rather the the department of justice just don't need to do anything. They just have to say, no, he doesn't. Yeah, exactly right, they don't even have to present the case.
Taylor Barlow:Even if we do meet the burden, the asylum is completely discretionary. Even if we prove every element without any doubt, the immigration judge can still look at it and say, yeah, I don't want to I don't like the case.
Bob Sewell:I like the guy, so I mean that's interesting, so that's a wow, that's a fascinating system, right?
Taylor Barlow:makes it. It makes it really. I mean what's already been a difficult system. It makes it. There's no easy parts of the of the process.
Bob Sewell:Okay, you put on your 45 minutes. Hit the punchline. What happens?
Taylor Barlow:Luckily I got the whole man security to stipulate to my expert um and to his testimony or to his opinion. So I didn't have to, I didn't have to introduce any of that.
Taylor Barlow:That already became part of the record and so he he stipulated about the the historical evidence of togo yeah, that, that, that there is this, these groups are being persecuted, this is a dictator, yeah, all that stuff. Um. So long story short. We we proved the case, um, but my client is subject to what's called the uh circumvention of lawful pathways rule. He crossed the border without an appointment and so he is presumptively ineligible for asylum now. Now we can rebut that presumption. We can say you know, there's different ways you can rebut it. One is that he's in imminent harm and so he needed to cross the border. He couldn't wait for an appointment. Another one is a medical emergency. Another one is that you know if he would be eligible for some other type of relief, which we haven't talked about. But there are other types of relief if you don't meet the asylum standard. If you're eligible for one of those but getting one of those would mean you're separated from your family then they can't use this circumvention rule to exclude you. So that's a rebuttal. So he, in my opinion, met two of those right, he met the imminent harm, he had just been released by his kidnappers and days later, you know, crossed the border. And number two, his family was back home in Togo and without him he doesn't have they don't have an asylum claim. They're not the ones being persecuted. He is, and so their asylum claim is dependent on his, and so I think he meets both of those and we get a ruling, I think the next day, where a multi-page opinion from the judge that said yes, he meets all the factors. I think he's credible. He doesn't have any negative equities about him.
Taylor Barlow:He is eligible for asylum, but for the circumvention rule, so I don't grant it. Instead, I grant withholding of removal, meaning he's still subject to a deportation order, but we're going to withhold that because it's not safe for him to go back. What happens after that? Withholding of removal means he doesn't get deported. I don't know if you've been following the Ebrego Garcia case at all. It's been in the news a bunch and I don't want to get into the politics of it, but he was subject to a similar order but they still sent him back to El Salvador. So it's not a great level of protection, but it does give some that he won't be deported. But it doesn't mean that you have to be released from detention. He could still be detained indefinitely and he couldn't be reunited with his family.
Bob Sewell:So you get this ruling, which isn't a horrible ruling, it's partway there. It's partway to winning.
Taylor Barlow:Yeah and he was ecstatic that he wouldn't get deported. I was crushed because I know his family's still out there and he, he, they needs to be reunited with them and he's going to be in detention forever. So I I'm crushed. So you file what I. I was irritated because in the judge's order he found that he was not an imminent harm. He said that he wasn't in harm for at least several hours before he crossed the border. Um, which I thought was outlandish. And yeah, the guy was the guy was.
Bob Sewell:The guy was captured twice. He was easy target. He's, he's I'm assuming he's um, african, uh, ancestry, right, black. He is, yep, and so he's sticking out in the sonoran desert like a sore thumb and he's going to get picked up like this, and he speaks french yeah, and as he approaches the us mexican border there are a bunch of armed people there, so he's having ptsd from his various kidnappings yeah, so they wait there to to capture these people who are trying to get asylum? Yeah, and extort.
Taylor Barlow:Yeah, so I, but he didn't talk. The judge didn't say anything about his family unity exception, and so I filed a motion for reconsideration, which I've filed in other cases and have never been successful. Right, they never work. They never work.
Bob Sewell:They never work. You file, they don't work yeah.
Taylor Barlow:But if it should ever work, I felt like this is the case, there's a clear exception and he didn't consider it. He needs to reconsider. This is what it's for, anyway, so I file it. I think it's really good. I wait a week. I still don't have an order. Finally, about on the eighth day or so, I get a very brief order that the motion is granted and the asylum order is amended, granting asylum. I was working from home that day. I ran down the stairs, hugged my wife. I told her what happened. I was so excited. I was so emotionally invested in this case because the stakes, in my opinion, couldn't be higher. This guy's life was on the line, as well as his family, and it was just a huge relief to get that.
Bob Sewell:Be honest with me, Taylor Did you shed a single manly tear?
Taylor Barlow:At that time or throughout the case.
Bob Sewell:At that time. Oh, of course.
Taylor Barlow:I did.
Bob Sewell:Okay, good, okay, they're manly tears. Right, these are manly tears, call them whatever you want.
Taylor Barlow:I don't, I'm not too proud.
Bob Sewell:I know, I'm just teasing you. I would, I, I mean, I think I would have, uh, jumped for joy. I would have, I would have been crying my eyes out it was.
Taylor Barlow:It was incredible, and I immediately.
Bob Sewell:Now has a chance because of what you did. This guy has a chance to get reunited with his family. Yep, he has a path To get a job, to exercise a right that we just here in America, we just don't care about. I mean, we care but we take for granted right, the right to say what you want against your government Right.
Taylor Barlow:Yeah, I get to protest. Freedom to the protest.
Bob Sewell:I don't like them, right? If I don't like my mayor, I get to say you stink, mr mayor.
Taylor Barlow:You stink, mrs mayor and throw them out and say I'm, his family suffered because of it, right, so he gets to come here and he'll have a chance at some point to become a citizen yeah, so after a year he can get a green card and then, I think, another year after that he can apply for citizenship.
Bob Sewell:And here's a guy who's going to be a great asset to America, right, I mean, he's educated.
Taylor Barlow:He's incredibly motivated, he's a survivor. He's so smart. I still talk to him and I keep up. You know I'm doing what I can to continue helping him. After you know, now he's in the United States. That's not the journey's not over, right? He still has to learn to navigate the United States and how to get all these things. How do I, how do I get a social security number? How do I get a job? How do I get a work authorization permit? How do I apply for benefits? How do I get rent? How do I open a bank account? Right, All this stuff. How do I get better at English? So we're still helping him. And now he has all that stuff. He has a work permit, he has a social security number, he has benefits. He, you know, has been united with, with other Togolese immigrants in the community. He's been attending his local mosque. He has been doing, you know, everything and it's been attending his local mosque.
Taylor Barlow:He has been doing everything and it's been a really wonderful. On the 4th of July he sent me a picture standing under a flag outside in somebody's yard that had been posted for the 4th of July and I thought it was very poignant, right, if we're talking about independence and freedom that means something else for him Great American way man.
Bob Sewell:This is America. This is what makes America great, right.
Taylor Barlow:Yeah, what's interesting is the refugee program or the asylum program and the asylum laws came about after World War II because we didn't allow Jewish refugees to come to the United States to seek refuge from from the Nazis. And I, you know we recognize the failing that that was and in response, created the Refugee Act, which allows for for these individuals to come to the United States and seek protection where they couldn't find it elsewhere.
Bob Sewell:Do you think you can top this in your career?
Taylor Barlow:No, I mean. Well, it depends on what you mean, right. There's a lot of legal successes and accomplishments that I'm proud of, but as far as something that has such an emotional investment, I don't think I can unless I do another one. It's just, you know, this mattered to this guy and it mattered to his wife and to his little kids. His kids are my kids' age Three and five, and I have kids that are three and seven, so you know.
Taylor Barlow:I saw myself and I saw myself and I saw my kids in him and his kids, and so no, I don't think I can from that perspective.
Bob Sewell:We become lawyers, you know, not quite knowing exactly what our career, the turns our career will take. We become lawyers because, hopefully, because we want to help people. We don't exactly know what this meant when we decide we're going to do this, but when you have such a transformative experience like you had, that means something right. I mean because you just didn't win a case, that is is gonna put a little money in a business person's wallet, I mean it's or spared some massive expense, and those are grateful clients too, but you put food in a in a family stomach yeah you'll stop someone from a woman from being horrifically abused?
Taylor Barlow:yeah, and you'll, and you'll save multiple lives that that's something you don't think you're going to do it gives me a whole new respect for the lawyers that do do this day in and day out. You know they they volunteer I volunteered with the Florence project. They're the ones that I that placed this client with me. Um, you know, but they have full-time attorneys there and, you know, full-time immigration attorneys, full-time criminal defense lawyers, uh, people that have a real impact on the daily lives of these people that really need the help.
Taylor Barlow:You know, I just did it as a one-off, right, I went to, um, probably you, and to our managing partner and I said, hey, this is something I'd like to do. Um, yeah, you know, I'd like to carve out the time to to do this, and, and everybody was very supportive and, and you know, made the space for me to do it here at the firm, but, um, but it's not my main job, right, you know, I, I do other stuff to put food on the table and to, you know, put money in my pockets, but, um, but there, you know, people are are more committed to the cause than I am, and you know, it's a whole different level of respect for those guys and gals.
Bob Sewell:Taylor, it's a pleasure working with you and thanks for coming on the show. Thanks, bob. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Is that even legal is now listened to in 100 countries and available on virtually all podcast platforms. Leave us a review, send us some show ideas and do so at producer at even legalcom. Don't forget, as smart as we sound and as lovable as we are, we are not your lawyers and we are not giving you legal advice. But if you need some legal advice, get some. There's some great lawyers out there and we are always ready to help. See you next time.