051 The Truth About Stages (they are meant to crush you)

The semantics of sacred space has sparked heated debate among worship leaders and churchgoers alike. Are we standing on a "stage" or an "altar"? Does the terminology matter when hearts are surrendered?

Chapters

• 0:00 The Stage Is Meant to Break You
• 3:20 Semantics and Misunderstandings Explored
• 7:08 God's Presence Beyond Architecture
• 9:06 Platforms as Places of Surrender
• 10:43 Visible Spaces for Invisible Realities
• 12:25 Redeeming the Stage, Not Removing It

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, welcome back to another episode. Today I want to talk about something that has had a lot of social media buzz for me, as I've been going back and forth with a lot of people who have taken issue with a post that I did back in June, and the post was this it said the stage is meant to break you, and it was actually a video that I did and I kind of expounded on it and the way I would quickly summarize it before I get to the issue of what people have kind of commented on it. I say the stage is meant to break you because no one is to be worshiped except God alone, and as a worship leader or really whoever you are listening to this, if you have any kind of a platform public in real life or on social media you know you get what I'm saying there. You understand this concept. If you love Jesus and you're a follower of him, you understand that the Lord has really, really good ways of keeping his people humble. I was telling one of my worship leader clients the other day in all my years of leading worship 22 plus years you know dozens, probably hundreds of people in different worship teams that I've worked with dozens, probably hundreds of people in different worship teams that I've worked with. I've never once had to call someone out and say, man, you're just being so prideful, you got to work on your pride. I've never once done that. I have addressed maybe other issues of the fruit of that pride, but I've let the Lord and some other different things I might do to help pastor them through that. I've let the Lord walk them through that, because the Lord is a way better teacher in that regard than I could ever be. And so the stage is meant to break you, because no one is to be worshiped except God alone. Anyone who has spent any kind of time in the public eye, whether it's a stage, at a church or, like I said, social media business owner, whatever it is the Lord just has a way of humbling us, and what people took issue with it was just. It was so shocking to me. It really again just revealed the critical culture that so many Christians live in.

Speaker 1: 1:55

Again, I'm not, I'm not advocating let's just, you know, be so open-minded that our brains fall out, or let's just, you know, not call out sin, or you know, whatever it is. I do think that social media is probably not the place to do that. Over a cup of coffee is probably the way to do that. If you don't know the person, write them a letter, send them an email, you know, I don't know Like. But I think that the festering and then the um, the social that social media produces only produces fruitless negativity, because the person you're dialoguing with, 99% of the time that you have issue with, is never going to be changed by what you post on social media. Most of the time they're going to dig their heels in harder and I think as Christians we just do such a poor job For the most part.

Speaker 1: 2:39

Obviously it's a pretty exaggerated statement or overarching statement, but in my opinion, a lot of what I see from Christians not even only to me, to other Christians I'm mostly talking about is just uncalled for, unfounded, not helpful, and I believe this comment by people, though well intended, is really not helpful and I'm going to be doing an episode pretty soon that's going to majorly expound on this topic. That that's that I'm very, very excited to do because it's it's a huge issue, I think in the church, but basically people say, hey, the stage has been to break you, uh, cause no one's to be worshiped except God alone, they say, all right, change your, change your, uh, your wording is off. Justin, it's not a stage, that's your problem right there. You're considering it a stage. It is in altar. That's your problem right there. You're considering it a stage, it is an altar. And to me I'm just like you know, immediately I wanna just be like bro. You don't even get it, like man, you don't even get it. Like, what are you even talking about? So, as I've kind of been forced, that's good, you know, iron sharpening, iron, negative press, you know whatever makes you kind of work through things. You can't just get frustrated and write people off. As I've kind of, like you know, sat with this and I'm going to read a couple of things that I've kind of believe it does come down to this it's a lack of understanding, but it's also semantics in a way, and I told this one person in the comments very kindly hey, I think it's just semantics Like no, it's not Like you're wrong, you're calling it a stage. The stage is the wrong term. It's an altar before the Lord you get on every Sunday. It's precious to the Lord. It's not a platform, it's going off, whatever. So the biggest thing that I'll say that kind of solves both of those. It's semantics, but it's also just your lack of understanding, is?

Speaker 1: 4:21

I would challenge and challenge you, my listener, if you're watching this on YouTube, your whole life is a stage. Okay, you've probably heard this type of thing. If you're in marketing at all or if you've read any books on this topic, your life is a story, right, and you are the lead actor living out your life on a stage. If you're a stay-at-home mom, if you're a stay-at-home dad or whatever guess what? Your kids they're watching you every single solitary day on a stage or a platform. Right, they're watching because you are quote, quote, unquote over them. You're leading them, you're in a place of authority over them. If you have a job, your boss above you is on a stage. You're on a stage to the person below you and it all kind of just goes around. There are believers watching your every move at work. There are unbelievers watching your every move. There are people watching the way you drive and you cuss at someone who cuts you off. You know all the types of things. Our whole life really is lived on a stage.

Speaker 1: 5:21

And the semantics to say, hey, worship leaders shouldn't even be on a platform. You know preachers. Like what are you standing on on Sunday morning when you preach? It should be on the floor, you should be on the same level. It's like okay, like they're not. They're not up on a stage because they're better, it's so people be from the back can see. You know, it's like there's just, it's a simple reality. There's lighting If you're streaming it or whatever that needs. There's practical things that need to happen. But really I think what I began to find in these people who are commenting was they don't understand the heart behind the platform. They don't understand the heart of a worship leader at their local church or at a conference or whatever who is leading. And it's not about the physical space, it's about the posture of heart in the heart of that worship leader the singers and the musicians, or the pastor or the executive who's speaking at a conference or whatever it is. God's presence will meet us wherever hearts are surrendered.

Speaker 1: 6:19

So if you're a worshiper listening to this, maybe you've had pushback on this and again, stay tuned to the podcast. I'm almost done with my notes, for it. A really, really, especially in the charismatic circles of church. I'm not sure if it's kind of bled into other circles, but in charismatic spaces of worship. Specifically this whole theology of I don't want to say it fully, to give away the episode I'm going to be doing on that but the idea of like you shouldn't be seen, you should just be small. It's all about Jesus. Why are you even offering us anything here? It's all about Jesus. It's all about Jesus. You know I'm going to hit that really, really hard in an upcoming episode.

Speaker 1: 6:58

But a couple of points I wanted to make here that I went back and forth with people here on social media. Point number one God's presence is not bound by architecture. God's presence is not bound by architecture. Isaiah 66,. Heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me?

Speaker 1: 7:18

God's presence has shown up in the Old Testament in tabernacles, in tents, homes, prison cells on the hillside and, yes, even on platforms. The physical space is not sacred in and of itself. Right, like you know, if you live in a home which probably do or apartment or a physical structure with your family and you're listening to this, that is your home and it is beautiful. But what actually makes up the home, it is the people inside of the home. If you guys, all you know, die in 100 years or whatever, you're all gone. Well, that's just a building, that's just a structure. If you move out of that physical structure, you've left a building, but I would argue that it's the people inside of the building that actually make it a home. And if you guys go to a different apartment, a different townhome, a different home, then that will become, then, your home. So God's presence is not bound by architecture, it is the vessels within that architecture.

Speaker 1: 8:16

Okay, point number two the stage is not the problem. The heart is. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. We all know this verse 1 Samuel, chapter 16, verse 7. And again, you know it's funny, again, I didn't go there with this person, these people, several people on socials, but like they're just commenting on a one minute video I posted, and it's like you, you don't know me, you don't know my heart. You're making all kinds of assumptions which, again, that's what I was talking about earlier Christians are just, we're horrible and we just eat our own. It's just, it's, it's vicious and it's. There's really a lot of vileness out. The stage becomes dangerous when it becomes a pedestal for ego instead of a place of surrender.

Speaker 1: 8:58

Again, I'm talking to worship leaders and stages in churches or platforms or raised places that we stand, but this is the exact same thing. You own a business, you own a restaurant, you're a painter, you're whatever it is. It's all about the heart of the person. It's not where you work. If you work in a palace laden with gold, you could be more humble there than the guy who works in a shack, who's just arrogant and all about himself, right? So it's not about the place, it's about the heart.

Speaker 1: 9:25

Point number three a gaping, massive thing that these people completely missed was platforms or stages can be altars. It doesn't have to be either or like. That's your problem, man. It's a stage, it's an altar. You're wrong. I'm like cannot a platform, cannot a stage be a place where the Lord meets us in an altar? Romans, chapter 12, verse 1. Present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. This is your true act of worship. In the Old Testament, altars were places of sacrifice. Today, our altar is wherever we lay down our own agenda On the stage of your home, being a mother, father, sister, brother, on the stage of your business, wherever you choose to lay down your agenda and surrender it to Jesus and invite the Holy Spirit in. That is your altar.

Speaker 1: 10:16

And the fourth point God uses visible spaces to call people to invisible realities. Okay, god uses visible spaces. And again, the future episode I'm going to do visible people. Visible people. Just remember that if you're a fan of the show and you watch, I'm going to go and tear this thing apart here in a couple episodes. God uses visible spaces to call people to himself or invisible realities. 2 Corinthians 4.1, one of my favorite verses. What is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Speaker 1: 10:49

Worship is not, I agree. It's not about lights or sound. It's about creating moments for heaven to touch earth, as a congregation or you alone in your bedroom, whatever it is where we join together with the God of heaven who dwells inside of us, who's seated on his throne, who we are seated in heavenly places with him. And God often uses seen spaces, seen people, to invite others into unseen truths. The upper room is a great example. The Montefiore. The upper room is a great example. The Montefiore Transfiguration is a great example.

Speaker 1: 11:20

So let's not get caught up in whether or not we call it a stage. Let's focus on what we are doing with it. If we treat it as holy. It is holy If we fill it with pride. It becomes empty, because the Lord resists the proud and he gives grace to the humble.

Speaker 1: 11:35

Worship is not about removing the stage, it's about redeeming it. It's not about you know, I've had thoughts before like man, it'd be amazing if, like the stage and the worship team, was at the back of the sanctuary looking at everyone's back. It might be slightly awkward, but I've had, honestly, a lot of like joy in my heart thinking about that at times. But you know, the way that humans are designed is to be impacted and encountered, changed by yes, by God. But God uses people most of the time.

Speaker 1: 12:08

Like, again, you might be alone in your room reading a book that someone else wrote, listen to a playlist someone else created with songs that someone else wrote. Like yes, there's beauty, matthew, chapter 6,. Going into your room, shut the door where your father's waiting to meet with you in secret. It's like I don't need a playlist, I don't need a book, I just want it to be pure. I say yes and amen. That's beautiful, go for that.

Speaker 1: 12:31

But the Lord uses people and, again, we're going to talk about this a lot more in a future episode here shortly. But it's not about the stage or a platform, because we are all on a stage and all on a platform, and I just want to end by reiterating what I started with the point I shared in this video, which I think is a really powerful point the stage is meant to break you, because God alone is to be worshiped and again, no matter what sphere of life that you're in, this rings true, and he will make sure, in his as loving of a way as possible, that he keeps us humble and he keeps us at his feet. You.