053 I’m Hosting a Songwriting Retreat (and you should come)

Songwriting doesn’t have to be a lonely grind, at the Journey Songwriting Retreat, you’ll find the power of co-writing, grow faster, and find a community that turns your ideas into songs that carry God’s heart. Your voice matters. Your songs matter. And this could be the moment you finally give them the space to come alive.

👉 Space is limited, so if this speaks to you, email me at
justin@justinrizzo.com with “Songwriting Retreat” in the subject line, and I’ll send you all the details.

Chapters

• 0:00 Pat Patterson's Co-Writing Story
• 3:16 My Co-Writing Journey Begins
• 6:20 The No-Free Zone Principle
• 11:15 Journey Songwriting Retreat Announcement
• 15:26 Retreat Schedule and Experience Details

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, welcome back into the RizCast podcast. I'm your host, justin Rizzo, and I'm excited to share a story with you guys today about a Berkeley professor for the Berkeley School of Music named Pat Patterson, and he has been a teacher there in the lyrics realm for songwriting for many, many years. He's coached and worked with people like John Mayer and a bunch of other artists that we're all familiar with, and he shares his story when it comes to co-writing. And there's a reason I'm sharing this, because I have a very, very exciting announcement I'm going to be making at the end of this podcast for all my songwriting friends out there. Whether you've written tons of songs and you feel very, very accomplished, whether you're somewhere in the middle, or whether you feel like you have never written a song and you'll never write a song, though you feel called, you have a desire to write a song, no matter where you find yourself on that spectrum of songwriting. I want to make a very, very special announcement at the end of this podcast, but first I want to share this story. So Pat Pattison was invited by a very, very successful Nashville writer and this guy had had tons and tons of hits. And Pat had not had hits, but he had, you know, a lot of teaching he had done on songwriting. So this guy in Nashville, you know, invited him out to. Hey, pat, I want to, I want to co-write with you.

Speaker 1: 1:13

You know, first time Pat is is super, super nervous, which again, you know, is shocking for me because he's a Berkeley professor, but you know we all have moments right. So he shows up at the studio, or the label rather, and they direct him into this writing room and he's waiting for this guy to come in. He's kind of sitting there and he's thinking about what's this going to be like. And this this guy I think he had like a big burly coat on looks just, you know, not like your typical professional co-writing guy who's had a bunch of hits. He just, you know, kind of very uniquely dressed, walks in and, um, looks at Pat, doesn't say anything, and he uh, shuts the door. And then he opens up the door and then he shuts the door and Pat describes it as he's sitting there looking at this guy, like is this some kind of like co-writing ritual, like what is this guy doing? And then he asks Pat this question after he opens and closes it for like the second or third time he says is that door closed? Pat's like yeah, he's like good. And Pat's like yeah, he's like good, because you and I are about to say some of the dumbest garbage he didn't, he didn't use that word, but some of the dumbest garbage we've ever said in our life in this co-writing session. And the guy says I won't tell if you don't tell, and it just brought this, you know peace to this writing session and they had, you know, they co-wrote the day.

Speaker 1: 2:46

And so I love this story, told from a Berkeley professor of lyrics who has again worked with some big, huge name artist, that he even had this struggle and in the dozens and hundreds and hundreds of hours of co-writing sessions that I've done, in the dozens and hundreds and hundreds of hours of co-writing sessions that I've done, I heard so my co-writing journey began in 2009, 2010. Matt Redman shared the story that the last five albums that Matt had done because I had asked him about co-writing. So he says the last five albums I've done. I've not written one song alone. They've all been co-writes and that that struck me as a young artist at that time, a young worship leader. At that time I was like this guy is arguably one of the most sung, you know worship songwriters of my, of my, my day, and he's telling me that the last five albums he's done, he's not written one song alone. Like, why am I trying to, you know, hand close my art and you know, create in secret and why am I not co-writing? So I, I like just went full force.

Speaker 1: 3:52

I began co-writing about 12 hours a week. I was in three different co-writing groups, four hours a pop, and I learned a whole lot. Oh, my god, I can think I have it all saved on my computer. I use Evernote to kind of chronicle and keep all my co-writing sessions clearly laid out, and so I have it sorted by who I'm writing with. And there's some people in here that I've done so many co-writes with. There's like 50, 75 plus documents inside of their songs that we've worked on. Some people there's like one, and sometimes there's a reason for that.

Speaker 1: 4:28

But my gosh, like when I began co-writing 12 hours a week, cause it was basically like anyone who would say, yes, I was part of a mega church and but it's shocking to you, I tell my clients this all the time like, um, just because you're in a mega church does not mean you have community, like people at megachurches sometimes are so busy doing so many things they don't have time for real community, to go out and have a real drink and a real meal and just chill or to really co-write craft, because the the mega church drive is so, so intense, they're trying to grow and it's multi-site campus and everything else right. So just because you're part of a mega church or mega ministry like I was, doesn't mean you have community. Doesn't mean people's yes means yes. Let me tell you, um, a lot of you guys are shaking your head right now listening to this thing in your car. Uh, wherever you're listening.

Speaker 1: 5:11

Like I really learned in that season that a yes, I really learned in that season that a yes, someone who follows through, that their yes equals yes, is everything. Because so many people God-fearing, good, talented, humble people can't follow through worth a sack of beans and it's really really challenging. So those in that season who would actually say yes to co-writing, not just in word but also in deed, who would show up at the appropriate time we had set aside time to write. Sometimes it was great, and there are songs that I've released and cut on records before, but there's so many songs that you'll never hear. The public will never hear.

Speaker 1: 5:53

They're sitting in Evernote. And side note, why I love Evernote and I haven't paid attention enough to the Apple notes. Maybe they do this now because they've they've developed the technology so much. But in Evernote you have, you know, so I have like a songwriting folder. In that folder are subfolders and it's like you know the different persons, each person's name that I've written with right, so if it's like you know whatever, and then inside of that there's individual files or documents you can create. So the person I have you know over 50, I go to their name, click it and then, bam, like 55, whatever it is, single pages pop up and within each page, you know, in a co-writing session, you know well, I write on Google Docs because it's in real time. Both of us can be open to Google document and we can, you know, see what each other's writing in real time. But after each session I copy and paste from Google doc into Evernote so I see all the lyrics and, uh, what.

Speaker 1: 6:45

What I love about Evernote is it allows you to put an MP3 above any word anywhere on that page. So you can, literally, so I can copy and paste from from Google docs. And a lot of times I'll just have, you know, um, we'll voice record. Or, you know, get a demo from an engineer and I, you know, get that email to myself and I click and I drag that into the actual file. So I'm not trying to like scroll through my voice memos to find the voice memo that goes along with some random Google doc, you know, that has the lyrics on it. They're together in Evernote. Hopefully that makes sense. It'd be a lot easier if I could, you know, show you guys that at some point.

Speaker 1: 7:19

But when I do songwriting, when I do songwriting retreats and songwriting trainings at churches, I a lot of times will project it on the screen and show people my inner workings of Evernote, because it's very, very helpful. Because if you don't have order it's really, really hard to feel like you can actually build something right, cause it's just chaos. So anyway, so in this time there's so many songs on Evernote that no one will ever hear. But what it did that was amazing was it worked a muscle inside of me, not only of co-writing and the craft of melodies and lyrics, but in the people skills of no again what I said earlier people not showing up, people being incredibly late, not valuing your time. How do you? How do you handle that? And again, I'm really really slow to make hard and fast. You know I'll never write with that person again or I'll never do this. You know, like in my career as a writer, you know as a filmmaker or whatever, like when I've had those types of thoughts or I've told you know a trusted friend or my wife, whatever, typically thoughts, or I've told you know a trusted friend or my, my wife, whatever typically it doesn't end up being true. I'll never work with that person again. You know it might be like a season, then in the Lord will bring it back around. I'm like, oh, I love that person, I'm gonna work with them again, right, but it's learned. It's taught people skills of even just getting to the room. Second thing is it's taught people skills of knowing the vibe of a co-write how do you draw something out of people you know Pat talks about as well in his.

Speaker 1: 8:38

It was a blog I read years ago, pat Patterson from Berkeley and he talks about how co-writing sessions are no free zones, so the word no is not allowed in a co-writing session, which I love that so much. And he talks about how well, I'm not sure if this is him or if I got this from somebody else, but he talks about how, like the mind or the heart, like, if you're watching on YouTube, you see my hands here, it's like a pipe, right. So let's say it's like a foot long pipe and the golden idea is back here in the pipe. You know, 12 inches in, and before that are like 11 horrible ideas that are just like, wow, that's, that's trash, right. But if you don't get those 11 ideas out of the pipe, you'll never get to the golden idea, uh, which is idea number 12. Right, and he talks about how, if you tell someone who gives their horrible idea, they don't know what's horrible there's, there's being free, they're just, like you know, getting the juices flowing.

Speaker 1: 9:32

No, when you have the word no told to you, so many things begin to happen to you. Because, again, if you're in a co-writing session, you know it's like you're all equals. There's no like well, I'm a master co-writer and you're a lowly co-writer. You know even people I've worked with who are way more, you know, famous or notoriety or have hit songs than me. Like even them in co-writing sessions. It's like the respect is just off the charts. Incredible, as of my experience, they're not like no, that's, you know, that's not, that's not a good idea, whatever. Um, so it's like give me more, give me more, give me more, give me more right. That that's the type of phrasing you want to use in a co-writing session, not like no, because then it's like well, who died and made you boss? Right?

Speaker 1: 10:14

And I've been in some, some sessions I won't share any names, but I've been in some sessions where you know, one person was just a no machine and they never brought anything to the right. All they would do is just say no, no, no. It'd be like two or three people we'd all love one idea and this one, you know kind of sourpuss person would be like no, and it just got to a point where we had to kind of confront them and just be like hey, that's not how this works. Majority rules number one in co-rights. And it also should be a no-free zone because we want to get people. We don't want to lie to people and say great idea when in secret that you hate it, because if you say great idea, then they'll be deceived to think like, oh, okay, awesome, and you'll never get to the 11th idea up this pipe. That's, you know, the golden idea. Right, it's like, okay, give me more, give me more. And I believe in like I'm a big, like I said, google docs guy, so I'm jotting down everything, even if I don't like the idea. You know someone's talking, ideating whatever, like the lyrics, whatever they're humming, that keep flowing on that, you know. And so the 11th idea, the 12th idea, the golden idea will eventually come, but it is a no free zone. So a few co-writing tips.

Speaker 1: 11:24

Really, just my heart for co-writing is that you just do it. Find a group of people that you can co-write with, and so I've talked about this before in the podcast. I have a journey co-writing collaborative group of people that meet once a month on Zoom and they write for three hours a month in groups of three or four on Zoom rooms. The link's in the description if you wanted to check that out. But really, all this is leading to me making a very, very exciting announcement for my worship leading for my songwriting community. And again, if you're listening to this and you've written 100 songs, this is for you. If you've written no songs, this is for you.

Speaker 1: 12:00

I am doing my first ever. Well, it's my, it's really my second, but we, we, we piloted this in November of of 2025 with just 10 people, and it was incredible. The, the fruit that came, the songs that came out, the community, the camaraderie, the rest, the rejuvenation that came to people was just incredible. This is my first ever kind of public facing, so that's why I'm using the term first ever songwriting retreat in person songwriting retreat in the smoky mountains of Tennessee in 2026. And you can either click the link below or email Justin at Justin Rizzocom. Shoot me an email, justin, at justinrizzocom, and just put in the subject line, you know, songwriting retreat, and we will send you all the information, all the details on it.

Speaker 1: 12:49

But I can just tell you and attach to you from the one that we did this past November in the Smoky Mountains you know, waking up and having coffee, overlooking an amazing, you know, back deck on basically a very large house, not quite a mansion, but a very large house, um, that we rented in the Smoky Mountains, drinking coffee, talking, you know, sharing your heart with one another, going in, um, all your meals are included, so we eat amazing food together. Um, all your room and board is included, uh, this beautiful, beautiful house in the Smoky Mountains. And then we have co-writing sessions that we do for three, sometimes four hours each day and I break everyone up into different groups and so, again, we piloted this in November, which is 10 people, kind of my inner circle of people but now we're opening it up and I'm saying 50 people. I think this is things going to sell out really, really quickly. But I'm limiting it to 50 people and that also has to do with the house, the house size that we can, that we can get in the Smoky Mountains. But again, shoot me an email, justinatjustinreservecom to get all the information.

Speaker 1: 13:52

But the the first ever I'm calling it the journey because that's my monthly songwriting group, my first ever journey in person songwriting retreat is open now to the public and we're limiting it to 50 people. But, guys, it's going to be incredible. It's going to be what we experienced this past November times 10. I firmly believe we had the last night of the retreat. We have a song share. So we all go to the great room room in this, this, uh, this luxury house, the great room, and um, you know everyone's there and um, we, just each person, sang, you know, perform the songs that they wrote in their groups. We, the lord came, it was powerful. Um, you know you're celebrating one another, you're applauding one another, and just the the camaraderie alone is worth coming to a retreat like this, let alone the songs that you know a lot of you guys are going to hear on Spotify from a lot of these amazing worship leaders and artists who came to this first retreat, who are going to come to this retreat and I'm calling it an annual retreat, like I think it's.

Speaker 1: 14:53

I'm hooked on doing this. Like I love the online stuff, the online community, and the online stuff is really needed because it's not practical to come together. You know this often, so, but once a year you come for three days. I'm going to go through the schedule here. But once a year you come together and then journey is the monthly kind of like keeping the circulation going. We don't just want to like go to the mountaintop for once a year and put you know I'll save these ideas until the next song. We're going to retreat Like well, that's like 11 and a half months away, man, like get with someone, get with a group of two or three people in the journey monthly group and, you know, keep co-writing. So the schedule, what does this look like? We all it's a Sunday night through Wednesday morning, so I designed it that way, so worship leaders can lead at their church on Sunday morning.

Speaker 1: 15:36

Either drive to the Smoky Mountains or catch a flight, or, if you can get off that Sunday morning, if you have PTO, whatever it is, so you're flying in. There's several airports we have on the website that are close to the Smoky Mountains, like Knoxville. Tennessee, for example, is probably the closest large airport, so you fly in Sunday morning. Sunday afternoon it all begins at five, so check-in begins at five o'clock at this house. We give people about an hour, we have our first kind of meal and gathering at six o'clock that night. And again, all the meals are made in house. We do it together.

Speaker 1: 16:06

It's really, really fun. I had a chef in the budget but I wanted to keep this thing as cheap as possible, so we cut the chef. But it was so fun making the meals together, cleaning up together. It was just a killer time. And dietary restrictions or whatever. We can flex and do whatever's needed there. Um, we had some dietary restrictions to this first one. We did in November and we have our first opening meal from six to seven 30. And then it's it's free time. That evening Some people went down into, like, um, you know different cities that are surrounding, uh, the smoky mountains there, um, and we had a couple of, uh, husband and wife couples come.

Speaker 1: 16:40

We made sure that they had, like, the king rooms, so they went on a little date by themselves that first night, because then Monday and Tuesday are pedal to the metal. It's very, very intense With built-in like community times and writing. It's not just like writing for 12 hours a day. We're not here to like kill anybody, so we get up on Monday. I just kind of set the precedent for how this is going to work.

Speaker 1: 17:01

Give some some co-writing tips. Hey, if you've never written, here's what you should do. If you've written a ton, here's what you should do. Whatever you get everybody on Google docs, whether it's on your phone, on an iPad or a computer, whatever and you guys break into different groups. We have guitars and different pianos set up all around this house. We break for lunch, we break for dinner together. There's some community times built in there, some games built in there. Tuesday much of the same thing.

Speaker 1: 17:22

Then, Tuesday night I already mentioned it is a song share where each and every group who has written a song and we had some groups wrote, you know, two songs in four hours, right, like that's the type of thing that we're going for. Not writing you know one song in two and a half days, like we're really the teaching that I do and kind of the way that I tell you to co-write will allow you to pop out more songs than less. Okay, we have a song share on Tuesday night. It was just incredible Again, just the Lord met us this past November is an awesome time, but just the you know one person said it really really well, when I came here Sunday night, none of this existed. And now we have, you know, 11 songs that were written by these, these people, and you're right around four of them, you know.

Speaker 1: 18:07

So, if any of these things make it to Spotify, which a lot of people who come to this they're, they're seeking to have an artist career of you know, putting songs on Spotify, putting songs on YouTube, you know, doing music videos or whatever, and that's I love to see that. And then, wednesday morning, we have our final breakfast, farewell breakfast, a final prayer time, and we have to be out by 10 am that morning, so people fly home or drive home, whatever it is, and so it's basically a Sunday through Wednesday, but it starts Sunday night, ends Wednesday morning, and so I'm so excited the first ever journey songwriting retreat in the Smoky Mountains. It's going to be an incredible, incredible time and I wanna invite you shoot me an email if you're interested. You're gonna want some more details. I can send you the website, justinjustinrizzocom. And again, whether you're a proficient you'd call yourself a proficient songwriter, co-writer, you've done this a ton or whether you've never written a song in your life, check this out, it's gonna you.