The Grief That Rebuilt His Faith with Andy Squyres

A candid, hope-filled conversation with special guest Andy Squyres about grief, deconstruction, and rebuilding faith through honest art and everyday faithfulness.

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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Worship music and the Christian industry can shape more than songs, they can shape identity. In this episode, Justin sits down with Andy Squyres for an honest conversation about ambition, disappointment, grief, and the kind of faith that survives when formulas stop working. They explore the tension between platform and presence, the pressure to succeed in worship spaces, and how a public flop and personal loss became the unlikely ground where deeper trust in Jesus was formed.

If you’ve wrestled with deconstruction, felt disillusioned with shallow answers, or longed for a faith big enough to hold sorrow and hope at the same time, this episode is for you. Subscribe, share it with a friend who needs encouragement, and leave a review to help more creatives discover the show.

ABOUT JUSTIN RIZZO

If you’re new here, my name is Justin Rizzo.

I'm a worship leader, songwriter, and filmmaker based in the Midwest, USA. I'm the founder of the Worship Leader Academy which has helped hundreds of worship leaders grow and develop through online community and one-on-one coaching.

How I got here…

7 yrs old: Love for music began with the recorder.
9 yrs old: Started drum lessons.  
12 yrs old: Parents taught how to lead worship.
13 yrs old: Led an original song at church.
13 yrs old: Vowed I'd never do it again. 
16 yrs old: Began to really love leading worship.
18 yrs old: Became a full-time worship leader.
19 yrs old: Broke my vow and began writing again.
20 yrs old: Recorded my first record.
23 yrs old: Leading began to feel like a burden.
24 yrs old: Blogged about worship leading.
25 yrs old: Started therapy and found healing.
26 yrs old: Called to produce musicals and films.
27 yrs old: Wrote and produced my first musical  
29 yrs old: Started my own production company.

Today: I live full-time as a worship leader and creative. I've written and produced three award- winning musical films, had millions stream my music, and travel the world leading worship and speaking at events.

Transcript

Conviction, Doubt, And Detangling

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I am 110% on the man Christ Jesus, bro. I feel more persuaded, more home, more convinced in the love of God than than ever before.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

I love the term detangling, regularly getting my thoughts out from between my earlobes, whether that's through art or a therapist who listens to it or a friend or whatever. Life's a bear. Smart people regularly are detangling their life.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

You found that the church is insufficient to meet all of your existential questions and needs. Before you completely abandon that project, take inventory of the of the world itself. Once you do that, in all honesty, find that you're stuck. It's Peter and Jesus. Peter doesn't have a smart answer. He's not like, oh, because I got a PhD in philosophy, and I I just get that you're you're the son of God. And he's like, I just don't have another option.

Meet Andy Squires

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Someone else commented and said, like, therapists and counselors are not in the Bible, they're not needed. If you're a young person, you've heard that kind of advice. I'm really sorry that person was dead wrong. Alright, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Very, very excited today to have a um a friend of mine, but also a phenomenal songwriter, phenomenal singer songwriter, Andy Squires, is on the show today. Andy, welcome in, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Hey, great to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Where in the world are you right now? Are you on the road? Are you home?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

I'm home uh for a couple days. I um I live in, yeah, I live in Charlotte, and we're we're having sunny weather right now, but apparently Snow Mageddon is on its way, so yeah, I might be stuck home for a while.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah, I've been hearing about this. We're supposed to go go out of town here soon and we'll we'll see what happens with that. Right. Um so man, I I have uh long admired you, respected you as an artist, um, just received a ton personally, my wife and I, uh in our hearts and our lives from your work, um, your writings, your music. So uh just an honor to have you on the show today. I have a bunch of questions I want to ask. We'll kind of see, you know, kind of where we where we end up. I have a lot of um uh creative songwriters, but a lot of entrepreneurs as well who listen to the show. And so I know that you'll you'll have a ton of stuff uh just from how much I know you and what you give, a lot of people be encouraged on what you do. Um but if you had to title yourself, would you say singer, songwriter, author? Does that encompass the Andy that you want people to know?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah, I think so. I think I think the the thing that I'm best at is songwriting, and then probably you know, being a performing songwriter is probably next in line, but the writing thing has definitely taken off over the last few years, and it's been a real joy to kind of dive into that side of my brain, and um it's a different, it's a different place for sure. Uh, but yeah, that's a fair, a fair assessment.

Art, Writing, And Finding A Lane

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Hey guys, sorry to interrupt. We'll get you back to the episode here in just one minute. I'm hosting a conference here in Kansas City for three days this March 2026 for creatives and entrepreneurs. It's called Creative Legacy. This is the fourth year that I'm hosting this event. It's gonna be an incredible, incredible time. Uh, you can get all the information at the QR code on your screen if you're watching this, or go to creativelegacy.org. It is March 19th through 21st, 2026, here in Kansas City. Would love to see you there. Would you say, again, you're assessing this, I'm not sure what your analoges are for this, but would you say most of your fans are on the writing book side of things, poetry, or more so on the music side of things, or kind of equal?

Conference Invite And Creative Community

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Gosh, I I don't think I'd know how to really ascertain that demographic. But I run into people all the time who are unaware of one of those situations. So people come to my show and they'll be like, I did not know you were a musician, or somebody will come to my show and say, I did not know you were a writer, because you know, I generally read one or two essays at my shows, and then the then the books are for sale at my merch table. People are often struck. But it's but it's equally folks come to my show just maybe expecting to kind of have a like a one-man book reading Q ⁇ A type thing, and then I'm standing up there for an hour kind of playing songs, and you know, yeah. So it's it's interesting how that's all of that is um kind of information as we speak, you know.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Yeah, I love that. I I know I talk to a lot of creatives who um do a lot of different things in their uh in their life. Now, most of the time for creatives, it's like I have a job that is nine to five that pays my bills. That's the second thing I do, and then I have my creative life that I make no money, real money from. But it's it's amazing to see you're doing this full time, you don't have a nine to five at Walmart, and you have you know multiple fields that you're you're you're thriving as a creative. So take me back then, young Andy. Was it I want to grow up and like write poems and do essays, or was it like I want to grow up and be um you know a singer-songwriter, or was it like I wanted to be a doctor? Like what was young Andy dreaming about?

Audience Split: Books Versus Music

SPEAKER_00 5:20

I wish I was more calculated than that, but the truth is I've stumbled into my life, and when I was coming out of high school, I felt like a really lost soul, didn't really have a vision for my life at all, um, kind of hated school, didn't go to college, ended up working just a variety of, you know, blue-collar jobs. And um, in the that that season of my life, I had a friend who was a piano player, musician, who had incidentally heard a poem that I had read and just thought to himself, man, I should I should ask this guy to write songs with me. And he asked me, you know, if I would be interested in that, and I had never considered it. I mean, music has growing up as a kid, I was a music fan, but I wasn't a musician, or I wasn't I never had the thought of like, I should be a musician, you know.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Really?

Early Years And Accidental Songwriter

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Um, yeah, I was I was I lived in my head a lot. I was I've I've I've had a few conversations about this with people where I you know existential crisis came for me pretty early on, and so I was probably more inclined towards poetry and literature because that's where I was finding the answers that I was maybe looking for. And the invitation into music was just circumstantial, and but once I got the songwriting bug, it opened up an entire world for me. And even though I went on to, you know, getting married, having a family, and kind of just building that part of my life, the songwriting piece was always there, and I had different ideas that were compelling me into that. One of the ideas that I had was, you know, I I listened, uh I'm I'm pretty deep into the Jesse Reeves uh podcast that you did. And it's it's interesting, like for me, um, you know, I I'm born in 73, so in the mid-90s, vineyard music is blowing, uh late 90s, Hillsong shows up, and early 2000s, uh Sonic Flood, and then eventually Chris Tomlin. And then all of a sudden you have a music industry surrounding Christian music and worship, and then the and when I was a kid, my family, we were part of that cassette of the month club, integrity Hosanna thing. So praise and worship was definitely on my radar at a very early age. Um so I knew you could make a living at it, but you know, prior to that moment in history, it wasn't professional worship leader or vocational worship leader wasn't really a thing, you know, or e or even worship songwriter. But but around the early 2000s, kind of the the idea, you know, coalesced in my brain, like, oh, write a song that Chris Tomlin will sing, and then you can pay your bills, and then you can do whatever you want, you know?

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Um, and then I also had friends that that happened for, like, you know, I've lived in Charlotte for 27 years and you know, became friends with guys like John Mark McMillan and Johnny Helzer and those guys like late 90s, and then watching their kind of trajectory into like the publishing money of how he loves and all that stuff, you know, you go, Oh, this actually can work, right? So um I think that was the main driver for me in my songwriting. And then around 2008, 2009, there was a shift for me where I'd had a couple of like trials and failures, like trying to make a record, failing at making a record a few times, um and then just kind of going, I I get this, I get this worship thing, and I love worship, I really do. But what I discovered was that there were words inside of me that I wanted to that I wanted to hear that I wasn't hearing anywhere. And so, and then also kind of dealing with some, you know, personal history within my family's story. Uh, I just needed to write some songs that were probably more in the artistic camp than the serving a congregation camp. And so I I just kind of shifted really hard in 2009, I would say. And and through throughout the the playbook of either making it in CCM or making it in worship, I just I got rid of that altogether and just started doing my own thing. And that was that was really the beginning of any type of legitimate success, successes, in quotes, right? Like um, but that was the first time people actually started listening to what I was doing.

Worship Industry Dreams And Shifts

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Yeah. So you said um, just kind of hearkening back, so you said you were in the Cassette of the Month Club, your family. So were you raised Christian? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I was. Uh short story is my mom and dad divorced when I was real young. Um, my mom and stepdad got saved in the Jesus movement in California, late 70s, early 80s, and we began attending a little church in Scotts Valley, California, which is just outside of Santa Cruz, where I was born and raised. And we attended a little church that was part of a strange little Pentecostal denomination called the International Church of the Four Square Gospel. And we were fundamentalists, we were dispensationalists, we were all things end times, and um and but but one thing I really learned from those people was how to sing, you know, like we were we were a singing church, we were a worshiping church, and um, you know, plenty of podcasts are criticizing the church and the church they grew up in. I don't really have any of that story. I'm I'm very grateful for my upbringing, I'm really grateful for the exposure to the charismatic gifts, and um, and of course, I I eventually became you know mature enough to kind of like start engaging with the theological frameworks of my upbringing and kind of like shifting towards some other things, but man, you've got everybody's gotta start somewhere, and everybody needs an orthodoxy to unravel eventually. And if you don't have that, um you know, you have to go build your own, and that's that's actually harder than deconstructing eventually.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

So interesting. So so I so I love that. So raised Christian, you're telling me you you weren't Andy singing on the worship team.

Leaving Templates For Honest Art

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Not until my young adult years. So so after high school, after I got married, I eventually learned how to play guitar, and Daryl Evans record came out, and then then it was just like a game changer, bro. Like Daryl, Daryl Evans and Kevin Prosh in 1999. I think it was like I can't remember that Daryl Evans Integrity put out a Daryl Evans record and a Kevin Prosh record called Reckless Mercy, and both of those records changed my life forever because for it was so close, so close. Yeah, and and yeah, and and Daryl's Evan Daryl's Daryl's record was fun and and uh and Kevin's record was just freaking like nothing I'd ever heard in Christian music before. So it was it was like a permission giver, you know, for a creative person. So really got into guitar at that point and then definitely started leading Daryl Evans songs from the stage on Sunday mornings.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

So traded your sorrows.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I traded my sorrows, bro.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Beautiful. As did I many, many times. So um Reckless Mercy, I I never knew that was actually a record because Reckless Love, Reckless Mercy. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Um so as your uh your friend who said he read a poem from you, you said, how did that like come about?

Upbringing, Pentecostal Roots, And Singing

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Like Yeah, that wasn't that was an interesting thing. That uh that happened actually, man, I've never been asked that question before. And this is a this is gonna sound really strange, but when I think about when I think back on it, oh my gosh, it it almost determined my entire future, and I'm just now realizing this. We were actually, it was a Wednesday night rehearsal, and the band was playing, and for some reason I had my backpack from school, and I thought to myself, I mean, I had seen people give prophetic words in church during a worship service, but I so so I knew about the elements of spontaneity in music, and I knew about um getting off the page of what's happening in the song and trying something new. So I knew I had this this little poem that I had written, and I I got it, and I read it on the microphone, and it was like it was a magical moment, it was like a moment of apocalypse, like there was a revealing in the room, and everybody felt it. And my mom and stepdad were there, and you know, of course, they were overjoyed, but you can't really believe what your mom thinks because she's your mom, right? Absolutely. Um, but there was kind of like this a sense of awe. Um, maybe it was because a young man was kind of stepping out doing something, but maybe it was also because the the poet and the spirit were cooperating with each other, and there was kind of just a good moments that we kind of all long for in church. You know, we we longed to be surprised, you know, at least I do.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

I and is that a rehearsal you said it wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah, it was just a it was we we rehearsed Wednesday nights every Wednesday night, like clockwork. We never missed, you know.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

So you were playing on the team.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Yeah, I was singing on the team. I was I was like I was slowly kind of getting my feet wet, you know. This was like pre-cool band mode of of the worship thing, right? It was like we had a praise team. We had we the women wore dresses and the men wore slacks and button-up shirts, right? So um it was uh that that was like my b very beginnings in singing.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

You remember what the phone was about?

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Uh I do. I can quote the first half of it.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

It was Baja Blast.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

It's Baja Blast, yeah. Um it was it was it it felt very much like I was reading from the Psalms a lot at the time, but it was deep waters, cold night, afraid of you, no I'm not, I stand strong in spite of thunder, always something undercover. I that's like the beginning of it. So just some imperfect rhymes, some kind of just like kind of Davidic, like I'm drowning in waters, I'm my mouth is covered in dust, kind of thing. Very, you know, it's what all young artists do. We mimic before we find our voice. And so that was um kind of just uh like but it but it was very heartfelt. I remember writing it for a my senior literature class and and taking it seriously, like taking a poetry assignment very seriously and really trying to put my heart on the page, you know.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

So I love I love that you remember that from those years ago. Yeah. And then you mentioned that um you began writing, I think you said from existential circumstances or something like that. You said a second ago. Um, can you like speak into that a little bit when when Andy was like, I'm gonna take my pen and write about this horrible situation? Or like what was what was that?

First Poem On A Mic: A Door Opens

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Well, the the church that we are a part of currently is the church we've been in for about 27 years. I'm I'm not in California anymore, I'm out in North Carolina. But and this is home, and the people that we've you know been a part of this local congregation for the better part of 27 years, we as any as as happens with any human life or any human tribe or village, it's impossible to go any amount of time without some tragedy striking the village, right? And um so we just had that. We had you know, we were in a we were a church like we were in the middle of a legitimate renewal of the spirit, you know. Um just uh incredible times of refreshing, you know, like the book of Acts talks about, you know. And um, and then right smack dab in the middle of that, in one fell swoop, we just had we lost we we just started losing people for one one reason or another.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Um you know, cancer, murder, you know, there was some some criminal stuff.

Sorrow In The Village And Theology

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Um and just just like things you see in movies and that you never imagine coming near your doorstep, you know? Um so you know, a lot of my artistic journey has been a uh a theologizing of my life. I'm I'm just constantly trying to make sense of the way God interacts with us, and um I would say that one of my main things that I've had to rethink in my life was I've talked about this publicly a lot, but um growing up in a Pentecostal church, we were slightly word of faith prosperity gospel. And so we would claim scriptures like Psalm 91 over our households, over our families, Psalm 103, you know, uh no no harm will come near my family, no disease will come near my family, the the power of God will thwart every scheme of the enemy. Um, you know, I I I I probably had some internal resistance to those things as a young person, but wanting to please God, wanting to be uh a good member of my church and community, I there was some buy-in in my heart and mind to those things. And when I started kind of taking inventory, taking account of all the many people who told me that if you do, if you pray this way and you believe like this, um, then God will bless you and nothing bad will happen to you. But I noticed over and over and over and over, none of these people could manage the metaphysic that they were preaching. Then I thought, well, it's either we don't have enough faith and or or or God's not actually good, or there's something else happening that we need to recover. There's there's another tension that's mysterious to us that's complex, but we've been denying it because we like life to be neat and we like our theology to be totally understandable. So around 2009, I started writing the songs for my first record called Cherry Blossoms, which is a very uh yearning, uh some would say even sorrowful record. But it it's it's an attempt really to kind of like uh reunderstand the Lord in my life, um, so that I could stay with him. Because the the God that I knew that was given to me as a young person uh was not the God I was currently experiencing. And so I had to go find new words, I had to find new language. And this is why poets and songwriters who are willing to take risks are so important to the body of Christ, because um oftentimes in the human experience, whether Christian or otherwise, we have these shattering moments where we're at a loss for words, and our and our existing theology is insufficient to tell us about the life we're currently experiencing. And then we need the poets, we need these, you know, uh people that are willing to color outside of the templates, outside of the lines that we've been assigned. Um it's it's really a you know, forgive me for using this word, but it's like a forerunner anointing where it's like you're you're you're you're willing to go to places that people aren't haven't gone yet. And and and sometimes to your own detriment. Like if you're trying to have a career, like a successful career, you know, you don't do that by writing Andy Squire songs, you do that by writing Forrest Frank songs. And nothing against Forrest Frank. We actually need those songs too, but but it can't be all we have.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

So yeah.

Prosperity Promises Versus Reality

SPEAKER_03 23:52

So I love that. And the unresolved, you know, is a term I would use, like unresolved thoughts or unresolved songs, um, would be what I would say a lot of your work is. And you know, I've said this before on my podcast that um I think so many positive, encouraging K-Love or worship artists or whatever, it's like verse one is maybe a little dark. Yeah. Verse two, God came into my darkness, the bridge, we're winding up, and the chorus is like, hands raised, thank you, God, I was dead, now I'm alive. It's black and white. Now, again, I I understand from the main, I said this on a podcast with Josh Scott recently. The main implant of theology is is pretty black and white, I believe, the the main plane. But our life is lived in the gray. Right. Like there's so like you said, you know, someone gets murdered, the cancer, whatever it is, and you are a writer, and I which I massively respect about you, you give permission to live in that gray. And it's like this song may be like mystical, and maybe there's a resolve, but maybe there isn't, depending on where you're at as a you know, emotionally listening to that. Yeah, that's such a gift. That's such a gift, and it's so rare, in my opinion, uh, in a in a Christian space. So speak to that, like specifically for Christians who, again, I grew up as a pastor's kid. Very, you know, you have your Bible study time, you have your discipleship time, you know, with Jesus or whatever, your pre-prayer time. Um, we had discipleship groups, youth group, you're a part of, and everything. And then then life happens. Yeah, it's like, man, I I know the truth, the main and plain, but man, like I need help processing this thing called life. So why do you think it's important for Christians specifically to have these types of songs, this type of art?

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Well, because I think that the church project, as good as it is, and when I say church, what I'm really speaking to is evangelical Protestantism, which you and I are both cut from that ilk.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

And um so there's an interesting dilemma that we face right now.

Cherry Blossoms And New Language For God

Permission To Live In The Gray

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Um I'm thinking of kind of like local church pastor who is got a church of two hundred people. He feels responsible for them, he's got limited resources both monetarily and energy-wise. And two hundred people's a lot for one person to pastor. And a and a lot of pastors feel like discipleship is important, and I would agree with that. I think discipleship is deeply important. The problem is that we have very one-dimensional versions of what discipleship looks like. And a lot of times what it looks like to people is somebody who doesn't smoke cigarettes, watch rated R movies, or you know, you have occasional fights with their spouse. Like so, I I I would say that in a lot a lot of our church spaces, what people are working on is outward things because they've been told a Christian looks like this, and so your job is to go look like that too. Read your Bible every day, have devotions, be a good husband, wife, be a good parent, vote Republican, all of these things. And it and it seems all of that seems okay for a while, but what's missing is is the heart. And and I would actually say that that's kind of like a philosophical issue that we have in evangelical Protestant spaces. We believe that every problem that a human being is facing can be solved with a proper satiriology. So everything's about salvation. Getting somebody saved, getting everybody saved. I mean, I I want to I personally love it when somebody meets Jesus. I I think it's the best thing going, right? But we have developed aesthetics around a very limited view of human life. And so a lot of times what's happening in the church is there are people deconstructing because the story or the narrative that they're being sold in their local church is so limiting that they feel like their only option is to leave the church to go find a more accurate story that images or mirrors reflects their story. When I actually think that the real answer is it's not reject the faith, reject your church, it's go get a more robust understanding of the gospel. Read read further back than the last 50 or 100 years of church history. The church is filled with people smarter than you and I who have experienced dark nights of the soul mystifying situations where no answers appeared. I mean, suffering is not a new thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Um but but I'll tell you what is new.

Discipleship, Shallow Metrics, And Heart

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Here's a new thing the idea that our relationship with God is there so that we can have a wonderful, prosper prosperous life. Like that is a myth that we have sold people. So, so if you get properly aligned with the Father, then revival will happen. If you get properly aligned, you align your faith with Jesus' faith, then you'll have a better marriage, you'll have a better job, you'll have you'll have more money, you'll have more health, less people will die of cancer, all of these things. And then when those formulas don't prove to be true, then people go, Oh, the whole thing's a sham. And well, all you have to do is actually just return to the Bible and read the New Testament. Start with the New Testament and look at the life of Paul, look at the life of Jesus. I mean, I love Paul so much. He's like, hey man, I know how to abound and I know how to be abased, I know how to do it all. You know, all these guys over here calling themselves an apostle. Well, I'm a Pa I'm an apostle, and here's how I know. I survived shipwreck, I still survived jailings, beatings, starvations, all of these things. Like, so you don't have to go very far. What you have to do is leave Christian publishing popular culture and all the shallowness and go, you know, read some church fathers or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

And you had you referenced it earlier, a season like this at your late 20s, early 30s, or uh well, I think I'm always in it.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

But I but I think I think 2009 started was my great unraveling. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

And was it caused by one circumstance, just kind of like the everything kind of combined at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 31:42

A fri a friend was murdered. Uh a friend was murdered in his bed, cold case still to this day. Like the most absurd of absurd stories that just inexplicable. Like I it it I've talked about it so often now, it feels it feels boring at at some point. But when I when I go backwards and I remember that that moment of harrowing, just like, oh my gosh, like is there a God? I think those I think those were some of the first words off of my lips. Like, because the amount of despair, the amount I mean, I don't know. I think when you're when you're kind of like maybe young processing life, you're it's within your realm of ability that somebody could die in a car accident or somebody could get sick and die for physical reasons. But murder that happens in TV shows, that happens in the movies. And so like there's these levels of violence that are pretty common to humanity since the dawn of time, but you know, a lot of us are sheltered from that, and I'm so grateful for that. But when one does experience something like that, it causes you to have to face your Americanized, sterilized prosperity gospel and look it in the face and go, you know, I don't think very much of this is true.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

It's so interesting to me that John Mark, if I'm not mistaken, How He Loves was written about a friend dying, yes?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

In a car accident, yep.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

In a car accidents, and yep. You guys have been friends like beyond before 09 or like since then?

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Oh yeah, yeah. John Mark and I met in 1999. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Okay, wow. Wow. Yeah, we were he loves come out?

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Is that pre- I think he I think he wrote it in 2001, but it did it blew up in 2003 when Kim Walker Yeah, I think it was Songs, his album Songs Inside the Sound of Breaking came out maybe 2002, 2003, and then you know, soon after that, Kim Walker changed everything, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

So 2009, friend is murdered. Where is your wife like, oh honey, it'll be okay, or is she like, what is happening?

SPEAKER_00 34:09

My husband, or no, we're all in it together. Our entire church is just melting down, like in in in in togetherness. We're we are we are weeping, we are groaning, we are we are tears and snot mingling, like as a church. A church, as a church.

Deconstruction, Robust Gospel, And History

SPEAKER_03 34:36

Wow, yeah. That's incredible. That seems so rare to me.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Yes, I think you're right about that. I I I've I've told this story a number of times, and I've I've experienced people's surprise at that. Like, yeah, I've never I've never thought that that could happen, but we've done it, we've done it a number of times, actually. We've we've lost big and mourned corporately, had had had entire seasons of of deep um deep regret, deep, deep crying out to deep, you know. And not not the kind where you're trying to stir up the waters of revival, but the kind where you're just processing your human pain at at the altar of worship, you know?

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Yeah. So if someone is is watching this and they they just heard you say, you know, uh my deconstruction of faith began, my friend was murdered. Is there like a song that you would point them to to go to your Spotify right now to kind of like hear your summation or your processing of that? The whole record of Cherry Blossoms?

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Or yeah, Cherry Blossoms is definitely a concept record. It's it's from beginning to end, just that story.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

Okay. And so you said you'd say now 17 years later, Andy is still in this wrestle, but would you say if your footing slips to like I'm I'm hanging on by five percent in 09, what percentage are you like firmly like whether Oh man, I am I am a hundred and ten percent on the man Christ Jesus, bro.

The Murder That Shook Everything

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Like I feel I feel more persuaded, more home, more convinced in the love of God than than ever before. And I I actually have um so much grace, so much grace for people who have just spun out because of church injustice. Um but I I f in all honesty don't relate. I I feel very um there's some tension in in the way I ha I I you know in thinking about talking through this kind of cultural moment that we're in. I mean the charismatic church is experiencing just full-blown just I don't know, disclosure, like kind of of the worst things, you know. And so I'm kind of just buckling up and just just being like, yeah, things are gonna get a lot worse before they get better, I think. But but even knowing all of that, I am I'm so I feel so happy, Justin. I feel so happy in my heart and in my mind.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

So if I can just like just lean into that a bit more. I yeah, it's a bit of my wife and I's journey, you know, we um I love the term uh detangling.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

And that's what her and I have really uh been been giving ourselves to. And really, I I think that any person with a who's smart, secular Christian business, whatever you're in, you don't have to be a ministry and be abused by a pastor, like I'm deed, you know. Totally. I think regularly getting my thoughts out from between my earlobes, whether that's through art and then my audience, my fans listen to it, or a therapist who listens to it, or a friend, or whatever, or uh a trusted pastor or whatever, I think smart people regularly are detangling their life.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

Because life's a bear. And anyone who's lived, you know, would know that I had someone comment so uh graciously and kindly on something I posted on YouTube recently, and just like, you know, burnout as a Christian, like you're doing something wrong if you burn out. Someone else commented and said, like, therapists and counselors are not in the Bible, they're not needed. He is the counselor, and I'm like, oh my god, what are we doing here? It's those types of, I bless those people who commented, I bless you, but those types of Christians are the ones largely responsible. Like, if you if I if you're a young person, you heard that kind of advice, I'm really sorry. That person was dead wrong. Yeah, go buy them a burger, but they're wrong.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Yeah, like don't grow bitter.

Corporate Lament And Staying Together

SPEAKER_03 39:13

But like anyway, I've um we've been in that process of detangling. Many of my friends um deconstructing themselves into you know oblivion or or um you know, no faith or whatever, whatever it is. So I have to ask you, how 110% on the man Christ Jesus, bro? That's what you said. I'm I'm so happy in my life, uh, you know, to be stupid. If you're if you're to create a PDF guide, five steps to deconstruct your way back to Christ, well like what is Andy, what's the thing like that's got you here?

Steps To Deconstruct Back To Christ

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Well, I guess step one is uh observe observe the world around you. So so if if you've found that the church is insufficient to meet all of your existential questions and needs, before you completely abandon that project, take inventory of the of the world itself. Because I believe that once you do that, in uh in a in all honesty, um, you'll find that you're stuck. There's there's it's it's Peter and Jesus, you know. After Jesus has, you know, decimated his own ministry by telling everybody that if unless they eat the his flesh and drink his blood, they have no part in him, and everybody scatters, and Peter's standing there, just kind of twiddling his thumbs, and Jesus is like, Why haven't you gone? You know, and Peter doesn't have a smart answer. He's not like, Well, because I got a PhD in philosophy, and I I just get that you're you're the son of God, and he's like, I just don't have another option. Like, I think that for me is one of my heart's cries is like, Lord, where else would I go? That's that's like my first step. Um and then and then I think step number two, if you you gotta be honest with about you know you can bleep this out later, but just like all the bullshit that's being served up at at church, you know, um whether it's whether it's uh churches where the pastor is where it's a cult of personality, you know, where where there's uh there's a project of like spectacle, like, ooh, ah, like the band's amazing, and the the the and the you know the preacher just never misses, and I don't know, that's a whole nother question for me. I we could do a whole nother podcast on kind of like big church, mega church dynamics, and and maybe it's unfair to say that there's no place I I probably wouldn't say that there's no place for that in the body of Christ, because I know that there's a lot of entryways into the kingdom of God. And I think that like you you you can avoid starving to death by eating a big Mac over and over and over, and I think that there's something to be said about that, right? Um said, well said, but I do think that the danger of those types of places is that there's so much centralized power on one person, and then eventually a system, and that system will eventually eat you alive. And um so so, but I do feel like that once you're honest about things, then you can start having a better relationship with the church world that you're part of. So, like for instance, Amy and I belong to a church that we dearly love, dearly love, we dearly love these people, but we're not hanging every part of our life on every single claim that's being made from that stage. And so there's like this healthy, well, it's the same thing, it's the same thing in my marriage. It's like I'm married to this woman. We have a covenant of trust, but does she believe every word that comes out of my mouth? Absolutely not. Like, and and it would be abusive if I had some type of expectation that she needed to like agree with me every time and then apply what I've said. Like, that's that's where you started getting into abusive relationships and cultic behavior, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Yep, yep.

Naming Church Spectacle And Power

SPEAKER_00 43:45

So, like maybe just like identifying that stuff, and then maybe number three, it's it's like read outside of your current world, read outside of your current theological world, whatever it is. If you're Charismatic, go start reading the Anglicans. If you're if you're a Reformed guy, go start reading Orthodoxy. You know, like um I think that in my heart of hearts, I will never ever ever stop being a low church, charismatic, evangelical. I just will not. I those are the people that marked me. I will I will remain among those people probably until I die. But I have I have been able to synthesize theology from a variety of places. And so so the Anglicans have deeply formed me. The Orthodox Eastern Orthodox have given me so much to like contend or defend against the shallowness of so much of American evangelicalism. Um that those are I think the steps I would tell somebody.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

That's amazing, dude. That's that's incredibly helpful, incredibly practical, incredibly insightful. So uh jumping back something you mentioned earlier, and then from our previous conversations, you you I meant I know this because you mentioned it to me once, um, I think in the green room at the conference. Uh when you were pursuing your um worship career, uh you mentioned it earlier, I think, you know, you wanted you had a dream of making a worship record or whatever. Um, why why did that not go well?

Reading Beyond Your Tribe

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Uh you know, that's a very, very interesting question. I I've had I've had a couple of worship records that I've made over the years, and um one flopped because I was a very young green artist who got into a room with a bunch of professionals, and when you're starstruck and your producer is a legend, and the musos in the room are all legends, what do I know? And I I I was just pretty ambitious and wanted to like make it big. So I I was like, hey, here's the keys to the here's the keys to my car. Um and uh please uh make me famous, make me rich, you know? And looking back, looking back, I very much attribute the mercy of God to making that record not go. Uh um although it destroyed me. It destroyed me for about three or four years. I was just a complete, just a just like a a yoke of shame, a yoke of embarrassment. It was a public failure, like in front of my family, in front of my church family. Everybody knew I had like mortgaged the farm to just do this great thing, you know, with dreams of you know, aspirational dreams of greatness, you know. And all, of course, all in the name of God, as we do, right? Like I'm I'm gonna be rich and famous, but for God, you know. Um and then and then 2007, I did a record called Be Magnified with a guy named Elijah Mosley, who was my producer for years. He he's actually the guy that did uh cherry blossoms and poet priest, and just a dear, dear, dear friend. And I was I was I was like I disappeared for three years. And he calls me out of the blue one day and he says, Andy, you have to make another record, you have to get back on the horse. And I was like, Well, I'm not doing artistic worship leader, prophetic, you know, Jason Upton meets, you know, like I'm not doing that. That was real hot in the the year 2000, and I gave a I gave it a go, and it's not my cup of tea. So we we just were like, hey, let's let's write let's write some amazing songs, and and let's let's do as let's do as close as we can to a Chris Tomlin record as we can without making ourselves feel completely dirty, you know. And this is the magnified one? Yeah, so we made this record called Be Magnified, and it's actually a really good record.

SPEAKER_03 48:45

It's I don't see it on your uh your Spotify repertoire.

Worship Records, Failure, And Mercy

SPEAKER_00 48:48

It's nowhere, it's nowhere to be found. It's it's uh I I may have some hard copies, but but I will say this to this day, I I make I do have one royalty, I one royalty check I get. It's decent. It's a it's a it's a decent little stream, and it's because of that record. There's a song called Glory in the Highest, and there's a uh Hispanic artist named Christine DeClario who recorded it, a Spanish version of it. Wow. And it it's got hundreds of millions of plays on YouTube and and Spotify.

SPEAKER_03 49:29

So it's like a deep cut Andy Squire. My mind's blown right now. That song's Glory in the Highest. And then the record being back, but the record is not anywhere deep on Masterville anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

And then there's another song that you might be familiar with, actually, that because I know I know Misty Edwards used to lead it all the time. There's a song called Not in My Strength that I wrote. That's that's from that record.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

I totally I know that line immediately comes to me.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Not in my strength, yep, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

Interesting. Yeah. Maybe when I see you in two months, you can bring me a signed copy. Yeah, I'll bring you one. Yeah, no, I will. I will. But if someone's listening to this though, in all seriousness, and they're like, hey, I want to hear that Andy, are you like, heck no, you're not hearing that Andy publicly. Would you ever release that?

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Uh it I mean, maybe, maybe I would give it to my like inner circle patrons, you know, like my my little community. But it's it's one of those things that what I'm it's it's not that I'm embarrassed by it um at all. I that be magnified records great for for 2000. It it sounds like a 2004 Matt Marr record, is what it sounds like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Okay, okay. Um dude, my mind's blowing right now.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

It's really fun. It's really the playing is incredible. I I I do I do cringe at my voice a little bit. I hadn't found my singing voice yet, so it's a little it's a little bit underwhelming.

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Um I think most artists do that in their early stuff. I know I do as well.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yeah, you're trying to be somebody that you're not, and so it's it's yeah, the outcome is you know, yeah. So, anyways, but I I feel really, really glad to have my my catalog set up the way it is publicly, you know.

Hidden Cuts And Quiet Success

SPEAKER_03 51:22

Yeah, okay. So that's that's Andy telling you no, you'll never hear this. But become a patron, I guess. Yes. That's his kind way of saying no. Um, so I want to read um just four lines of your lyrics uh from the song Baha Blast. Yeah. Let's survive not knowing what's around the bin. Let's survive our greatest glories coming to an end. Let's survive these Facebook posts and all this pettiness. I know that God will help us. Let's put them to the test. Um I remember when I first heard those lyrics, I was like, it was incredibly relatable, incredibly poetic, incredibly spiritual, all at the same time. Which again, if you if you're listening to this and you know Andy's career, you're like, yeah, duh, that that is Andy Squires. I know I understand that, but those like lyrics just like cut me really, really deep. Do you do you remember like kind of where you were at with those those lines like specifically?

Surviving Glory Fading And Ordinary Life

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Well, um it it's not like I was uh I wasn't in a deep dark pit when I wrote that song. That that song is more like an inventory song, kind of like just taking some different chapters of my life and poeticizing them uh in order to come up with a theme of this this ongoing experience that I'm having, and I think that a lot of my people are having uh because of fallout, because of fallout of revival culture. So I meet so many people who bet everything on God moving in such a way that you can see with your eyes, and you know, it it's and I know you know this well, but it's it's the it's the culture where somebody give gets up and gives a prophetic word to a hundred people and they're all gonna be history makers, right? So what it what it does is it it amps up our our our imaginations about who God is and what we are supposed to be doing. So if every meeting, every conference, every whatever we go, and it's all about saving the world, don't waste your life, all of John Piper, um you were called to preach to the nations all all the things that we all heard in our world growing up. When you get to your 40th year and you have a mortgage and kids and bills, and you you wind up with a regular life. There's only two ways you can go. You can be like, well, I must have failed God, or God must have failed me. And neither of those are true, actually. Because what you are actually experiencing in your life is what God means. So I don't have any pressure anymore to make a revival happen, to start a revival, to uphold one that's died out. I know this is probably gonna be strange language to some of your non-charismatic listeners, but it's it's just kind of the whole like passion conference ethos of like, you know, uh, let's let's let's save all the college kids, but but then you know, what do those people do with the rest of their life? They're not gonna attend passion conferences for the rest of their lives. We have to tell people that it's okay that they go to college or go to trade school, get a job, whatever the thing is, right? You're not failing God because you do something with your life. And and so the let's survive not knowing what's around the bend, let's survive our greatest glories coming to an end. That's I'm writing that because I'm actually running with baby boomers who are in their 70s, mid-70s, and what's dawning on them having not seen the revival that everybody said was coming, there's this like dust of disappointment settling on them. And I'm telling them, guys, guys, you've done well, you've done great. There's nothing else to do. You do not have to solve this. You are not the savior of the world. Your church is not the savior of the world. Just love your neighbor, love your wife, tell your kids they're doing well. Like, do the little things because the little things are what's actually important.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

Yeah. I was out for getting a drink with my brother uh a couple nights ago, three nights ago, and we were talking about this, you know, just the the beauty of a simple life and being raised in that, you know, charismatic culture, you know, the Martin Smith History Maker, which again, yeah, you know, great song, no shade to Martin. Sure. But beauty in the simple. And I wrote a song with a friend of mine, uh, it's on Spotify called Simple Pursuit. Just gonna read a couple lyrics here, then I I'm gonna pivot us here a couple questions. But um, verse one says, I know that you're an all-consuming fire. I've chased and pursued you from my youth. This line, I was told I'd pioneer your next move when all I needed was just to sit with you. Um we go on and the bridge. Uh we're we're both uh you have young families, married, couple kids, we're young. And remember, we were writing this song. He came from a mega church that was in revival all the time. I came from a mega ministry, you know, pursuing revival and all the other things, and we see it on Twitter, X, or whatever, all the time, like this is revival, and there's like 5,000 college campus kids praising Jesus. I'm like, I see what you're saying, and I see the awakening happening, perhaps there.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

Yeah.

Revival Reframed As Daily Faithfulness

SPEAKER_03 57:35

We want to just boil it down. So the bridge says, Revival is in the breaking of the bread around the table, standing with the brother in his laughter and his sorrow, in the waking of my children, in the prayer time when I'm putting them to bed. Revival is in the covenant of sickness and in health. Stay faithful to your wife. In the sacrifice of laying down, ambitions that we've held in the quiet early mornings when my tears are falling on your holy word. And then we end the song really gently in the verse uh so I'll live a life that's slower, satisfied in the wonder of your will. I've replaced the tower that they said I would build with this simple altar where I'm filled, and I find my joy here in the still. And so I feel like that's just like a perfect summation of the beautiful life that you know you've been living, you've been pressing into with the Lord for you know uh 40 plus years, however old you are, of the ups and the downs, that the murder, the death, the challenges of charismatic culture or whatever. But finding that there's you know, it doesn't have to be the end of you know of Christianity, the end of your life with Christ, he needs to become that foundation. So anyway, I just uh I love that.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

So good.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

So good. So a couple kind of fun questions for you here, then I'll let you go. I know you're um we're gonna get you off here in a second. So you you are full-time as a creative, and a lot of my listeners um you know were like, man, I could live full-time as a creative. I would just be on cloud nine, I have to work this bum job and a cubicle, whatever. What is like one shocking thing that you would tell people about road life?

SPEAKER_02 59:14

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

Well, you know, this is funny, and I don't want to sound ungrateful, but I'll have people come up to me all the time before a show, like, aren't you so excited to play the show? And it it, you know, I do a hundred a year. So my my very real answer is no, I'm not excited. Now, I get I get a lot of pleasure out of performing. I really do. I really am so grateful that I get to do it. But it is like anything. It's like it's why, it's why I refuse to start a YouTube channel off of my bass fishing adventures, because I go fishing and and it's like it's I don't have I don't earn any money off of it, and I don't it it's just what I do for pleasure, you know. And the I, you know, everybody's got a fishing channel now, and uh but like because because as soon as something becomes you know your vocational where you're earning your income, it does tend to lose a little bit of that special sauce, you know, that we we all experience when we were in the dreaming phase. Um but that being said, I will say I do sometimes just sit back in awe and wonder, going, wow, I cannot believe I get to do this this way.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:37

Yeah. I love that. That's beautiful. Um, I gotta ask you about your memes, your meme team, or whoever that is, if that's you just rocking that junk. Um okay, dude. Your memes are killer. Love the uh the Forrest Frank, Corey Asbury course from their TIFF, you know, several months ago online.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:56

You're just like, uh and then wasn't there something like with you in in them in relations to them? Like are they love when you're songs, or Forrest comments or something like that?

Road Life Reality And Joy

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Yeah, Corey, Corey was very kind to me. And when Sacred Vows came out, he just he started posting covers of his own tunes, and he and Forrest were kind of you know getting tight at that point. And so he just kept sending Forrest my songs. And so Forrest, uh, you know, after after I teased him a couple times online, um, he was he was not pushing back with with counter memes. He wasn't counter memeing me. He was he was killing me with kindness and leaving really positive remarks on my posts, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

So uh because he's got reckless love now, because he knows Corey is that just Jesus is, you know. Um okay, kind of a fun question. Yeah, you have unlimited resources for your creativity. What does Andy do? Someone hands you$10 million for creativity.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

What what are you making? What are you building?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

Well, that is so in such an interesting question. I think that the first thing that I'm gonna do is I'm gonna start a retreat center in southern Utah in the middle of the mighty five national parks, and I'm gonna take people on a walking tour where we go through the different national parks, and I'm gonna read them poetry in order to activate their um like I want to reinstate for people a love of words, and I think one of the best ways of doing that is to like do that in nature, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:41

This is all after this is all after you tithe, of course, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

This is all after I tithe, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:50

So you love nature, obviously. Yeah, and you have a desire to take people out into nature to reconnect with the Lord.

Memes, Kindness, And Community

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

Yeah, I there's a poet named David White who I really love, and he does walking tours through Ireland, and I would have loved to have told you I'm gonna do this in Ireland, but I don't know Ireland. I I have to do this, I have to do it in my own country. And Amy and I, we we vacation a lot in southern Utah because we're just so in love with those um Zion and Canyonlands and Bryce Canyon. It's just kind of like to us, it's God's country. Um and what's your favorite, like between those arches or uh honestly, for me it would it would have to be arches, but Amy would tell you Bryce Canyon is is the best.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:41

So yeah. Why is arches your favorite? I've been there.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

Man, those those I I can't remember what they're called, but the um, you know, of course the arches are beautiful, but as you're driving to the arches, you're there's these monolithic rocks. They're not mountains, but they're they're rocks that are as tall as the you know a skyscraper, and they're just I don't know, they're just so awe-striking. Just out of nowhere. So there's it's not like a mountain range, but it's like flat, flat, flat, flat, and then out of nowhere, these massive, massive rocks appear, and it just I don't know, it's so awe-striking.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:25

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

And kind of side note to that dream, which sounds incredible by the way. Um I mean, could you do something like that where people pay like a fee to come and like you feed them and you house them and yeah, you know, the the retreat model has intrigued me a lot.

If Money Were No Object: Retreats

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

I I don't I don't think I would ever want to do a conference because I don't feel like that I have the shoulders to carry that, but maybe the small retreat, like a writer's retreat, songwriter retreat, and you know, the mountains or lakeside or somewhere, you know. I think I think I've done that a few times, and it's been such a blessing to me. Uh I I mean as a as somebody a consumer, you know, a recipient. Um, so like I I could see in my older age turning and doing something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

So I think people would love something. If you're on YouTube and you want that, put it in the comments so Andy knows. I think that that type of thing would crush, man. Like John Eldridge and Stacey, they do some bigger, like 150, 200 people things. Yep. They do like you know the small, and it I think in this day and age of constant information on on Twitter and constant constant the slow is just I think people are really into that. I'm into that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

Yeah, for sure.

Nature, Arches, And Awe

SPEAKER_03 1:05:48

Yeah, that's amazing. Um, okay, so I would love to chat with you. Uh, you're gonna be a featured artist again at my creative legacy conference happening uh in. In Kansas City, Missouri, March 19th through 21st. You were with us last year. That whole set that he did, he did two sets, one just him in acoustic, and then he did one with a whole live band. Stu G played, Josh, Joshua Heath Scott played with him from JHS Pedals. You guys can check that on YouTube. But um so excited to have you back this year. Would love to just hear. So the the uh heart for this conference, it's for creatives and entrepreneurs to strengthen the internal life with Jesus. Then see their external, what they're doing with their hands, just um be sustained. And I know for me, as a creative and entreprene and an entrepreneur, as you yourself wearing both of those hats and what you're doing, it's so easy, just okay, I gotta do this, I gotta do this, you know, whatever. And so we really want to strengthen people's hearts, and it happens in community through times of silence, through times of uh breaking bread together, there'll be times of worship, having um, you know, you do a set. That's gonna be amazing. But just give you know 15, 30 seconds, like your heart in coming uh to this event, even what you saw last year at this event.

Retreat Model And Slow Spaces

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

Yeah. Well, I you know, I love doing events like this for this reason. When I personally lose perspective on who I am and what I'm doing, I call my parents. They are who I call. Um uh and it's and I know I do this for my kids as well because sometimes my kids, they're young adults, they're building their lives. It's of it's such a common thing to experience a limit to your wisdom, a lack of wisdom, a lack of perspective in an area. And you know, when I go talk to my mom and stepdad, or even my stepdad and my my or my my dad and my stepmom, I can go to them and be very vulnerable about something I'm sh unsure about, or even even an insecurity within myself. And they don't always have the right answer to give me, but they so often are so good at telling me who I am, and that is such strength in my heart. Like when I hear somebody else tell me uh who God has made me to be, it it's it's we we've used this word already today, permission. It's it's more it's like gas in my engine, and it keeps me energized to keep doing the take keep taking the risks that I'm taking. Because as an entrepreneur, as an artist, I mean, being an artist is inherently risky. Being an entrepreneur is inherently risky, and and and sometimes that those insecurities can overwhelm us or keep us from doing the thing that we're actually called to do. So it's so good to come and listen to a voice of of uh encouragement and and blessing, dare I say blessing. I love being blessed by my parents and I love blessing my children, and there's such a power in it. And um, so I anticipate this type of gathering in in a way being like um, you know, fathers and mothers kind of giving people permission to step into the dreams that are in their hearts, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:33

Love that. That's amazing. That's amazing. I love that. So March 19th through 21st here in Kansas City, go to creativelegacy.org. It's in the show notes. Um, get your tickets for that. We have another price increase coming here soon. So if you want the discounted um early bird rate, you can go check that out. Andy, appreciate your time. One final question here. Obviously, Instagram, uh, people can follow you. Do you have any YouTube presence outside of the bass fishing channel, of course?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

I do have a I do have a YouTube channel. I need to post on it more, but my most of my energy is on Instagram. If somebody wants to follow me there, that's a great place to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:11

Okay, we'll put that handle in the show notes. And then what can people? I know you you've been in the studio, so what can people and when can people be seeing some new stuff from you?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:19

Um April is my next release. Uh it it'll be the third EP in this trilogy of EPs. Um, and gosh, every artist says it, but I feel like this is my best work so far. So I think I feel really excited about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:38

That's awesome. I'm pumped. So, guys, give him a follow on Instagram, uh, on Spotify. Go uh become a listener of his. I know that it will really encourage you. Uh, dude, thank you. You've encouraged me in this conversation, so I appreciate your time, and uh, we'll see you here in Kansas City soon.