He Wrote “God of This City” in a Thai Bar

An honest conversation about worship, justice, and refusing to build celebrity altars. In this episode, I sit down with Aaron Boyd to trace the unlikely path from a rainy Belfast upbringing to writing God Of The City in a Thai bar, and to unpack what it means to join worship and justice.

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ABOUT THIS EPISODE 

Aaron Boyd is a songwriter and worship leader from Belfast, Northern Ireland, best known for writing God Of The City, later recorded by Chris Tomlin and sung in churches around the world. But the song was not born in a stadium. It was written in a bar in Pattaya, Thailand, overlooking streets marked by exploitation and heartbreak.

In this episode, Justin Rizzo talks with Aaron about that night, and about the deeper story behind it. They explore his strict church upbringing with no drums, meeting Jesus as a teenager, and how early worship leading slowly turned into songwriting with a burden for broken cities.

ABOUT JUSTIN RIZZO

If you’re new here, my name is Justin Rizzo.

I'm a worship leader, songwriter, and filmmaker based in the Midwest, USA. I'm the founder of the Worship Leader Academy which has helped hundreds of worship leaders grow and develop through online community and one-on-one coaching.

How I got here…

7 yrs old: Love for music began with the recorder.
9 yrs old: Started drum lessons.  
12 yrs old: Parents taught how to lead worship.
13 yrs old: Led an original song at church.
13 yrs old: Vowed I'd never do it again. 
16 yrs old: Began to really love leading worship.
18 yrs old: Became a full-time worship leader.
19 yrs old: Broke my vow and began writing again.
20 yrs old: Recorded my first record.
23 yrs old: Leading began to feel like a burden.
24 yrs old: Blogged about worship leading.
25 yrs old: Started therapy and found healing.
26 yrs old: Called to produce musicals and films.
27 yrs old: Wrote and produced my first musical  
29 yrs old: Started my own production company.

Today: I live full-time as a worship leader and creative. I've written and produced three award- winning musical films, had millions stream my music, and travel the world leading worship and speaking at events.

Transcript

Belfast Roots And Rainy Banter

SPEAKER_01 0:00

All right, guys, welcome into another episode. Very excited about the guest that I have with me today. He wrote a song that a lot of you guys will know and just has an amazing, amazing story as a creative, as a worship leader, as a songwriter, and someone who really uh loves justice and is pursuing that in a real tangible way. So it's my honor to welcome in my friend Aaron Boyd. Aaron, welcome in, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Hi Justin. How are you, bro? Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Absolutely. Thanks so much for being on. So I'm really good at accents, so I can tell that your accent is definitely from the deep south of the US, probably Mississippi, Alabama. Is that what I'm hearing in your accent there? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Yeah, yeah. Whoa. Yeah. It's basically rained every single day. Uh well, whatever. It might even be longer. Yeah, yeah. It's so it's it's very wet, but it's absolutely glorious. The little green dot the emerald isle and Belfast Northern Ireland.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Okay. So is it your spring technically there? Or winter?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

No, it's it is winter. It's winter.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

So it's yeah, but it's we're on the turn. We're on the turn.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Your nation, your your um island is incredible. It is so beautiful. I went there a couple years ago and um gosh, rented a car with my wife, and driving around was definitely interesting. Um, two things, obviously, if you've never been there, you'll you'll um they drive on the what the Americans would say is the other side, the wrong side of the road. So you're driving on the left side of the road, steering wheel is on the other side. But I want to ask you this off the top of the show here. The roads are seemingly so narrow. Is there a reason for this?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

I do know it just when you think of Ireland, you just gotta think of it like a complete rural island, and then there's a bunch of kind of like more growing cities. So this idea of having like tons of highways and all, it's not that. Just think of all those wee lanes like horse and carts years ago. You didn't need there wasn't semi-trucks going down them, all of that stuff. So yeah, they just and because they want to keep it green and planning and all that stuff, yeah. It's it is a miracle how uh the road that's the width of a car, somehow two cars flying at each other can just pass. It's we see miracles every single day, you know. It's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

And the the roundabouts there, like my wife and our rented car, I'm driving on the other side of the car, on the other side of the road, and you come to a roundabout, which it's mostly roundabouts there, with our experience, not so many lights. You're going the opposite way, and the GPS is like, you know, get off at the fourth exit. I was like, oh my god, like trying to figure out how to merge, and but that's that's your everyday. That that's like normal for you, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah, totally, totally. People freak out when I pick up my friends from the states to come over and uh I grab them from the airport and then just go hooking down these wee country roads and they're curled up in a ball in the front, freaking out. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

But such a beautiful place, man. The cliffs of is it mohors? Is that how you say it? How do you say it?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

It's just more like more. You don't have to say the mohor, but more. Okay. It's very more carrying. Yeah, it's just unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Ring of Carrie, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yeah, ring of carry. But they're actually, I just did for the first time there in September past. I did there is a ring just below it, and it's called the Barrel Loop. It's a bit more slept on, and I think consistently it's better than the ring of carry.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Interesting, interesting. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

It's wild, and it's smaller roads, so there's no big buses. So if you come over, it's it's just below. Like if that's you know, if that's the ring of carry there, it's just this wee headland that sticks out. Okay. It's about there.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

We're gonna have to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Heck yeah.

Narrow Roads And Irish Landscapes

SPEAKER_01 3:44

That's amazing. And then um, this place, it was like a garden old castle-ish type thing called Power Scourt. Is that ring a bell at all?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Is that is it a castle or something or just a house?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, there's there's uh there's a hot I think there's a hotel there as well. I think it's fancy.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, I think it's a fancy hotel as well. It was an old castle.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

There's castles everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Lord we're tripping over them here.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Such a beautiful nation, man. So beautiful. So um, so kind of give me an idea. So growing up for you, were you raised in a like Catholic home or Christian home?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

No, it would be it was a Christian home, and uh parents are still alive, we still love Jesus, and uh, I have an older brother, um, but it was a really strict, it was like a strict church, you know, there was no drums, drums were all the devil, you know, that kind of thing. And uh I I went um I didn't have a faith, and I don't know if you know anything about the troubles in East Belfast, but uh it's very easy to get involved in some stuff. Um and so whilst I never I never signed up to any paramilitaries or any of that kind of stuff, but a lot of the people that we knocked around with were they were all signed up in things, and people that were a wee bit older, and uh you kind of brought up in a world where at times you had people running around murdering people for God and Ulster and the same on the other side, and then it it was just it's this weird political who owns this land, uh it's being occupied, it's not being occupied, all this kind of stuff. Um but I always went to church to keep my parents happy, and uh and then I really met Jesus when I was 18 years old. And uh instantly changed my life, honestly, it really did, it completely changed my life. You know, my wife now of it when we met at school, and the first year that we met at school, uh when you're 16 you do the exams, and then you can transfer to other schools. She came to my school and she was warned to stay away from me because I was an absolute header when I was younger, and then I went away for a summer, I met Jesus, I came back, and uh my life was completely transformed. And uh we ended up going to a different church and they had drums, and it was awesome. I'm still there to this day.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

And uh I want to ask you about that, but um, one more kind of Ireland 30,000-foot view um thing. I'm pretty sure it was Ireland and not Scotland, but are you aware of the viral video of two little girls from a couple years ago who had an encounter at like an ice cream truck? They were charging so much money for ice cream. Uh is this ringing the bell at all?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

I think that's Scottish.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Is that Scottish? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

I think that's Scottish. Yeah, I think that's Scottish.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Okay, so they were there were Scottish girls, they were not Irish. My apologies, I should know my accents a little better there. So you mentioned um that you started going to church and there were drums. So were you already musicians at that at that point, or did that kind of awaken music inside of you?

SPEAKER_00 6:41

No, so when I when I got saved, um I was always like I was always musical. Um, I did all like the my first instrument was trumpet.

unknown 6:52

Oh.

Strict Church To Encounter With Jesus

SPEAKER_00 6:53

So understood music. And then actually my last two years at school was just all music, all drama, like amateur dramatics, you know, on stage, the school productions, all that good stuff, musicals. And uh so it was always musical. I could sort of hold a bit of a tune and uh and sing in musicals, but never really, never, ever, ever thought that I would be doing music full-time in life. Like I didn't didn't go looking for this. This all kind of just landed on my doorstep. But whenever I was in and out of church services, um I could feel now what I know to be the Holy Spirit, but the church that I grew up in never talked about the Holy Spirit, it was like more of a scary thing or something that you know just all these crazy charismatics talked about. Um, and then I actually was at a camp and I met these guys I seen these guys at the front uh in a big tent, and they were they were fully dancing, they weren't just doing like a two-step Pentecostal two-step kind of thing, they were like proper dancing and they were worshiping away. And I thought this was the funniest thing ever. And again, I wasn't saved, I had no regard for it, so I went up afterwards and I said to them, I was like, yo, um what what church do you go to? It must be it must be a bit mental, like you know. And uh they told me it was called a River of Life Fellowship Church in a wee town called Dungannon, which is about half an hour away from Belfast. And um, so the summer ended, and then when school started back again, it was actually at the start of my last year at school. Sorry, that I I I got saved. Um, myself and two friends on Sundays. I was at the age where keeping my parents happy, as long as I went to a church, it kept them happy. I didn't want to go to theirs, and uh, they were both Christians and I wasn't, and I was still a little bit wild, you know, outside of life, you're still involved in rats and whatever you get you get yourself into. And um, and we I said to them one Sunday, let's go to that those people's church down in Dungan. And so we jumped in, one of them was driving, so we jumped in her car, and uh, three of us went down myself, my buddy Adam or Ding, and uh, and then Hazel, and we drove around this small town looking for this church and we couldn't find it. And then I saw a house and it had this sign that said the lifeboat mission. And um so I was like, Listen, that sounds Christian, I'll I'll go and wrap the door. And uh so I wrapped the door, and this Scottish couple answered the door, and I said, Listen, I'm really sorry to bother you. Uh, I spoke to these guys at a camp when they told me about this church called the River of Life Fellowship Church, and uh they uh but we can't find it, and they said, Funny you should mention that. We're actually from Scotland, we're over house sitting this house, we don't live there, but we've just been phoned and uh invited to this church, which is the River of Life Fellowship Church. Wow, and uh now we can't go, but the person gave us directions, so then these two Scottish people gave me the directions, and I went and sat in the corner. I was like, Yeah, that's a bit strange, but anyway, I didn't think much of it. Walked in, it was out the back of a farmer's house, as much as I can remember, and it was in a double wide basically. And when I walked in, there was this guy at the front just worshiping away, the worst sound system, just a bunch of people in the room. But then in the middle of it, this woman got up and she started what now I would know to be like the prophetic. She started prophesying, and every single thing that she said was just like an arrow right into my life. And that night on the way home in the car, I I said to my friend, it was like, Can you pull over? And uh she pulled over, and I decided the motorway and I I gave my life to the Lord. And then on the Monday I went to all my schoolmates and everyone I knocked around with and told them, like, I this is real, like this is I've genuinely met Jesus, and uh that was the start of it. And then when I went to CFC, it was just this like uh which is Christian Fellowship Church Belfast, um, it was just this explosion of worship, and I just loved to worship, like I I couldn't feel anything more. It just always felt like I was about to explode, just singing and telling the Lord how great he is, and just just really digging in and going forward, and that was it. And then as it goes, you know, it's like, well, you're you're a wee bit musical, so can you come and play here? Or you know, would you lead for young adults? Or there's a couple of home groups that needed someone to leave worship, and then that just kind of begins to go, and uh that was really the start of it, you know. And then they let you on the church on the Sunday morning, and that's it, you're in, you know, like there was no additions or no anything, it was just like go for it. Some guy standing on stage, you have the acetates, you start singing a song, they pull it up, put it backwards on the overhead projector, and away you go. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah, so amazing. Now walk me forward. How long after that? Um, did you go to Thailand?

SPEAKER_00 11:44

So it was November 2000, 3rd of November 2006. And the only reason I remember that is because it was my drummer and still really good mate, uh, Pete Comfort. It was his birthday.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Okay.

Finding Worship And A Call To Lead

SPEAKER_00 11:56

So my missions pastor asked me, can I get a bunch of people and uh go on this mission trip? And I'd done a few in between then, so that would have been I'd get saved in 1998, and uh and now we're at 2006. So there's been a journey of just finding out more about who you are in the Lord, learning to lead worship in whatever way that looks, and in any setting. And that's the beautiful thing. Probably back then, our church, you know, it was just like everyone, there was such a renewal going on. That you this idea of like warm-up songs or anything, none of that stuff ever existed. It was just like everyone understands when you walk into this room, it's each person's individual responsibility to tell the Lord how great he is in whatever way we can, and it was just a beautiful place to grow in. Yeah, um, and so my missions pastor was like, Can you get people to come? So I spoke to a few people, and and away that was really the start of it. And we'd been doing bits and pieces together anyway. So I kind of said to my friends, yeah, there's this trip, you know, that's the Southeast Asia. Never honestly, it never I wasn't the smartest kid, so I didn't even know where it was. I had no idea really what we signed up for. Apart from all I knew is that there was a 24-hour worship thing going on, and uh and that we just had to be ready to play wherever we could. Yeah, and that was that's kind of the that's that was the start of it of that whole trip, you know. Yeah, started in Bangkok, and then we flew to Patya, which is P-A-T-T-A-Y-A, Patia in Thailand. Yeah, um, and Patia is like when you land there, if you're going there on a plane, really you're gonna gonna you you really either I would say it is kind of like it's it's not a really nice holiday destination, you're going there for a specific reason. You're either there to help in ending what is going on there, which is an illegal industry of prostitution and human trafficking and abuse, or you're gonna be part of it. Yeah, and uh I'd never seen I had I was married and I had a young kid at that time, my first girl, and I'd never seen people just being bought and sold like commodities. I'd never seen that people coming up to you with menus, but they're not it's not for food, right? It's for whatever you can imagine, and then you go and you pick a girl and that's it. And it was like I've never seen the entire fabric and DNA of that town is built on prostitution. Wow, it's broken up into different districts called soy SOI, and a soy, you know, it's maybe like soy one, soy two, three, four, five, or whatever. So if you want lady boy, you go here, if you want like male homosexual, you go here, if you want something else, you go here or whatever. And then it's just got this big main party street called Walking Street, uh, which is just full of hundreds of bars, wow, and uh just thousands of girls for sale.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

So so you're in that context. That's the perfect setup, that's where where I was headed. You're in that context when the lyrics for the song, so Aaron is a part of writing the song God of the City, which a lot of you guys will know from Chris Tomlin covering it, which we'll talk about that in a second, how that happened. But first, talking about the the writing of that song, so you're in the midst of that chaos, that culture. How did it kind of spawn and come out of you?

SPEAKER_00 15:17

So I I would say that that that is it's it's it's like a prophetic cry. I was gen, there's like the fighting Irish, it's in there. I was looking around and I was like going, This is wrong. And I didn't know how to deal with all of these emotions, and I was getting really angry, and it was like this, I want to start kicking doors in and you know it and start emptying people or whatever, and that's obviously not the right response, it's not a Jesus response in the middle of that. Um, but with two nights off, and I said to my missions pastor, can you get me somewhere else to play? Because it's fun, like you know, you're driving around in Tuktuks, and that that's all you know, culturally, it's completely different than anything I'd ever experienced. Um, I spent a lot of time in Europe climbing mountains and that stuff. I never went to college, I went just climbing mountains and ice climbing and whatever. And uh, but it's still Europe. Do you know what I mean? It's still close enough to my world, but just you know, seeing everything that's going on over there was just so, so different and so foreign for me. Um, but my missions pastor spoke to someone who knew someone who knew someone else, and then there was like this the joy of lost in translation. There was a bar called the climax bar, and the bar owner all she knew was there is an Irish band that are in town that are gonna play for free for two hours, and they have a strong fan base with them. I it was just our mission team, right? So that day was then set, and uh, we walked into the climax bar in the middle of this pedestrian party street, and we started uh we started playing, and uh it was all it was basically like I really didn't have any of my own songs. God of the City, I think, was the second song I think I ever wrote. I wrote a song called River, and then I wrote God of the City. Um, and uh so I knew about four songs, but like being Raven Charismatics, I can make those four songs last for two hours. Do you know what I mean? We've all been in those services absolutely so, but like smack bang in the middle of that, we just hit this a real close friend of mine, PDK. He's a he's a DJ, and uh he was there, and he was uh he it was even before Ableton. I can't remember what he was running, and he I think he had a deck with like Serato or something like that, and he had some loop, which is the loop that's in the song, this real minor loop. Uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh and he just started playing that. We just started grooving and then just worshiping, and then I just sang, You're the god of the city, you're the king of these people, greater things, you've yet to come, and uh, and just kept singing it over and over and over, almost like this shout into the middle of that darkness.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

So melodies and lyrics came at the same time, exactly at the same time.

Thailand Trip And First Glimpse Of Trafficking

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Wow, and then after it all, we didn't think anything of it again. The culture of songwriting, there was a few people in Northern Ireland that wrote songs, Rob Mark, you know, with our church days of Elijah. Um, but I on the whole, this idea of like writing songs that was never part of my world. Um, I only wrote a song because a guy from England, after I was saved, came and picked me out of uh out of my church and brought me up to the front, uh, prayed for me and then poured jugs of water over me. And he he asked me for my middle name and I said Jordan, and he said, You're gonna experience your own Jordan tonight, Aaron. And I was like, right, and then he started to pray, and he started to say, You're gonna write songs and you're gonna travel and you're gonna see the nations and all this stuff. And I was like, I just want to climb mountains, do you know what I mean? And love Jesus in the process, that's all I wanted to do. Um, and so the prayer that he prayed over me, I took that song, sat down, and I knew like D G A and B minor, and so I wrote I wrote this song River, and that was it. Wow, and then I so I basically grew up playing like all the Matt Redman songs and Tim Hughes and that kind of stuff, obviously listening to Delirious, and you know that whole kind of thing. Um, so it was a real fun time, but yeah, I'd never it everything just dropped. I get in the bus to go back to uh our hotel and ask the guys, is like, does anyone remember exactly what I sang there? And uh I just stuck it down on a note and that was it. And then I was leading worship back home at a monthly event, uh a Youth for Christ event called Manifest. And so we got the same loop and uh scribbled out the words and uh and then played it there for kind of the first time ever live, and that was it. And just didn't didn't think anything of it, and that was uh you know, written in a brothel, and then sang really for the first time at this manifest in the centre of Belfast.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Wow, um, and that was it. Then walk me through so because Chris Tallman's on the scene at that point, like he's you know had some some songs. Um how how did that get to his ears and how he did he end up covering it?

Writing God Of The City In A Bar

SPEAKER_00 20:05

So I I don't know, I don't know Chris, and and and I always say when I talk about this song, it's like I'm not name-dropping or anything, I don't I don't I don't really know him at all. Um, but he was playing in our local ice hockey arena in the middle of Belfast. And whatever way it worked, probably me and my guys at that time we we weren't good as a band at all. It was just like we could roughly start a song together and roughly finish. That was it, you know. Um, and so they were looking for an opener for the openers who also had openers, so we ended up being like a band that played it like three in the afternoon, you know what I mean? When they was they're still putting out the chores, you know. I don't think it was anyone there apart from like my parents, you know. I was like, hello Bill fans, you know, but so and my dads are just shouting, yo, you know that. And uh and that was it. But what was going on in their world, which was unbeknownst to me, was that whole passion network with Louis Giglio and all of those guys. I think at that time they were they were praying about like, do we take this thing around the world? Do we do like a global tour? And uh, so they were in the middle of praying for that, and obviously Chris was really involved. Now I I didn't meet him until afterwards, but it was his guitar player, one of the sweetest guys I'd ever met when I when I travelled, um, Daniel. He was playing guitar for him, and he was out and he heard us play. And he I didn't tell a story of the song or didn't it? We just sang it. That's that was all. And he heard that song and he freaked out, and he ran back and he was like, Chris, you need you need to hear this song, you need to hear this song. Oh my goodness. So um I then went uh afterwards, uh, he came up to me and was like, You know, what's that song? And I said song called God of the City, and then I told him the story about it, which then made him I think he'd freak out even more. And and again, I didn't understand anything in the music world, nothing, none of that exists. There's no comedy. Conversations about publishing, or people want to take a hundred percent of something, or fifty percent of this, or whatever, and all this none of that's existed, not part of my world. And then uh we had we exchanged like an email address, and a couple of days later I get like a phone call, and then like Lou Giglio phones, and then I get an email, and then there's this like mock-up, and there's a demo done, and I was like, Holy smokes! Like, I was at that point, I was washing windows as well. I was a window cleaner, I was up a ladder, and my phone went, you know, and it was like, Hey Aaron, I have a listen to this demo, and I was like, What? And opened it up, and there it was. And then I'll open this crazy floodgate because then everyone heard that Chris was gonna cut this song, and then all the record companies start coming over, and uh they're all wanting they actually wanted to sign the song, uh, which I thought was really sneaky, to be honest. Uh, they all kind of wanted to sign that song behind his back. Do you know that kind of stuff? And I was like, this is all it was crazy. But we the kept banned steak dinner, so it was lovely. Oh my guys were getting three steak dinners, so it's like great. But um, we didn't need it in the music world, we didn't need a record deal or any of that stuff. We we needed pastors, and I think that's why I listened to your other podcast with Jesse, and um and I met him once, he was a sweetheart as well. Um, when he said about the uh uh Samuel um with that line about uh that God wasn't looking for the show, he was looking for someone that cared about the sheep. That's what we needed in the middle of this. I didn't, you know, but that opened up this whole door of then uh people then starting to email and will you come and play here? Will you do this? Will you play at a festival? Will you do this? And that was really how we just started traveling at that point. I didn't, you know, we didn't go looking for this, it was just people just are sending over, you know. It was and I don't say this with pride, it was like the biggest song or the fastest added song on radio and all this kind of stuff, and I'd never played in America, had no idea what was going on, and everyone was freaking out. And I'm in Belfast washing windows, and my guys are teaching drums and doing whatever, you know, being DJs and uh things just going crazy in the States, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

So just to understand correctly, did you so when these record labels are coming over there, pitching you, stake dinners, whatever, did you understand at that time, or more so just looking back now, but did you understand at that time this is wrong? We need pastors in the music industry, not cutthroat business people?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

No, not at not at that time. That's definitely a hindsight thing. Okay, but there was definitely the the most important thing for us was when when I came back from uh patia, I mean I was deeply, deeply changed, and I made a commitment, and I and my my wife as well. Man, I I would sit in the house and I would just burst into tears and I would just go, This is absolutely wrong. I've never seen abuse or injustice like this, and I can't go back to my normal life and live as if this isn't happening, live as if four and five-year-olds are being raped and abused every single night and being sold like this. I I it it changed me so much, and so timelines can get a bit fuzzy, but I had recorded all the songs at this point, kind of after Chris had been out, um, and he was kind of singing a song, and we met a guy who was over that was working with Robin in church, and he offered to produce my first album completely for free, and we just needed to book a studio, so we went to Wind Metal Lean in Dublin, which is where U2 recorded all their stuff. And everyone knows everyone here in Northern Ireland, so uh I knew someone that knew Bono's monitor engineer or something like that, and he managed the place. And so we had a week in there, I recorded all the songs, and our commitment was Lord, whatever you're doing for the rest of my life, I want to walk this line of worship and justice. I want to help people see you, and because of that, and because of the doors that you've opened, I want to help a bunch of kids across the world that have a voice, but just because of where they're placed, sometimes those voices are silenced, and we want to advocate for those you know that are most vulnerable. Um, and so when I'm sitting with record companies as well, I had this CD, and it was like, here's what we want to do we want to take everything that's gonna go on with this album, and we just want to give all the money away, and we want to help a bunch of organizations and a bunch of projects that are on the front lines trying to end the CSE world of child sex exploitation.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Wait, these labels are saying this to you?

Chris Tomlin Connection And Industry Whirlwind

SPEAKER_00 26:40

We're saying that to them. Oh, oh everything they're like, we'll we can do distribution deals, we can do record deals, we can do licensing deals, we can do whatever, and we're like, listen, whatever happens, we don't really care. But what we want is we want that all the money that's raised from this goes into the work of saving kids across the world, and then that's where the conversations all ended because they all have, and I and I get it, it's not I'm not bad mouthing them. It's they have their organizations that they give to, and this kind of stuff, but for us, it was like all of this goes into this world and stop and that's the beautiful marriage of worship and justice. That's the stuff that we have in our hands. Of what can we have that much, but I had this record, so how can I help steward this record? Um, and so all those conversations then ended because they were like, yo, um we can't we can't we can't do this, and we're like, Well, sorry, and they were like, You're stupid doing this, and so we just we just it was me and my buddy PDK really sad in all those meetings. Um, and then the Lord always he always writes the best stories. I met a guy in Nashville and was introduced to him by the guy that produced the record, right? And he said, You need to go and speak to my buddy Jay. So we were like, cool, and uh, we were kind of then this timeline, we were being asked, you know, to come over and lead it a few things. And so I met Jay, told him the whole story, sure at heart, and he's like, I'm in, I need you to meet my other buddy, Greg Lucid. He does direct the retail and um basically cuts, you know, cuts uh well. I don't know if he still does it now that much, but uh he he sold direct into all the retailers, and so there was no kind of middleman involved, and uh everything that we wanted happened through that, and so you know, you took half stat on publishing, you keep the cost of the record down, and it was a non-sale return basis. So, you know, it's when these guys have these things, they are pushing them as hard as they can. So like a hundred thousand records in a couple of weeks, you know, and it was just like everything we ever wanted and prayed for. The Lord opened the door in the middle of these moments where it was like this is this is really stupid to walk away from these record deals or these things or whatever, and it just it just it just didn't feel right, and uh and the Lord opened the door for this, and that was then it kind of then really blew up a bit more after that. Yeah, it was brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

So the money from this, what I'm hearing you say, has gone into projects. Okay, wow, yeah, yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Um so yeah, it was it was it was everything we ever we ever dreamed of. It really was. The Lord brought the right people to the table in the right spots and uh and just and then everything changed after that. Everything then was going digital, and everything was kind of changing.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

So you had a so that was a hit, like just for being honest, that was a hit song for several years. And um was there ever a time when you were like, man, I need to get another one to help and have more justice money, but like where you were like digging for another.

Choosing Worship And Justice Over Deals

SPEAKER_00 29:55

No, I what I did was I again the mentality-wise, I was not, and I'm still not like this. I'm still not in this space where I feel like I I I have to have to have to write. I write because and it sounds cliche, but it's it's a sense of like an overflow, it's like revelation and response, you know, and it's like my response first and foremost is worship, it's and then out of that worship, then stuff comes. Um, even today, you know, writing for me can be quite seasonal where it's like I'm very, very heavily invested. Now you're always thinking, there's always melodies, you're always but in terms of being like super intentional, um, that that's definitely seasonal for me. And I never felt any pressure to write songs because I live in a place where there is zero pressure. I have no, there's no pressure to do any of that. I wasn't being asked, I was no one was saying to me, you need to write another hit, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do that. What I was hungry for was visiting the church on the front ends that are really doing the business. Yeah, and so like you know, for four or five years, I traveled extensively everywhere I could, visited as many projects that I could that were on the front end to see the child sex exploitation world ended. Wow, that's what it was, that's what I was more passionate about. Um, it wasn't about writing songs, uh, it was about seeing an end to all of that stuff. And uh which kind of looked like that you that you on there's a there's I don't want to say it's a problem, but the problem is I think in America, because it's such a big industry, if you're not front and center with your own, like I'm pushing myself. There's I'm I've got a team of people, I've got all of this going on. We're pushing AC radio, we're doing all of these things, you're spending all this money and all this stuff. If you're not doing that, it looks like you've disappeared and you've gone away. Well, that was very true. I disappeared, but I disappeared all over the world to the darkest areas that I could find to lead worship there, to visit people that were absolutely broken. As and I'm not saying this in some self-righteous way, it wasn't I had no desire to like play this American Christian music industry game. I part took in it, and I had to had to do that in order to learn things to see where where do I want to engage in this system that exists, you know. Um, and and that's come on a lot in in a whole bunch of years, and I didn't get things right, and I did things I don't think I I would ever do now, I would never do. Um, but you just have to be part of it, and it was like uh yeah, I really disagree with what I did back then, but I had no idea how this thing all worked. Um, but my heart honestly was was just hitting places in Southeast Asia, Cambodia, and back to Thailand, and got smuggled into Burma and just had the craziest God adventures in the middle of those places. But that looks like you disappear in the States, yeah. Totally like, oh, you have this hit and then you go. It's like I didn't look for a hit, it happened, yeah, and that propelled me into what I still walk in today, which is this this avenue of worship and justice. I hope that makes sense. No, it 100% does. Red labels and that stuff, you know. But I think the whole system is broken. I think what we've done is we've taken this music industry, we've never looked at it from a real kingdom perspective at times, and we've skinned it with Jesus and we've called it good. And the Lord in all of his grace can work in the middle of it. But I think we've built this thing on a culture of Caesar, on something that Jesus never bought into. It's a this currency of Caesar, if you want to say, where it's about power, control, top-down, it's about fame, it's about all of that kind of stuff. And some of the conversations that we had with people, um, production buses and this kind of stuff, like we were just sitting going, like, what where what is going on? Like, how does this thing all work? You know, and um uh I was at a festival one time, and uh I'd it was it was a festival, and I'd actually been moved three times. I had friends from Newfoundland that I was playing with, they were all raging. I I really didn't care, right? I promise I didn't care, but managers complained because an organization that I do a lot of work for, um uh World Orphans, uh, we're not on staff or anything like that, but we just love what they do. Um, and they'd organized that I was going to play this, and again, I'd never heard of this before, but this like pre-headline slot, which is a really good slot, and three managers complained because they're like, Who is this guy? Why is he playing there? And I got bumped instead of you know playing from like whatever half eight to 9:30 or something like that, I was then moved to like five o'clock, right? And it's hard to then let everyone know. Yeah, and I genuinely didn't care. But when I came off the stage, I was walking across the field with my wife, and my kids and my middle girl asked my wife, um, she says, What's that? What's that? And people were queuing up in a line, and uh my wife Jill said, Oh, it's a it's a meet and greet, it's uh it's a place where you you buy tickets and then you go and you you get to see the people that play on the main stage. And my middle child, um, and I know this is gonna sound really arrogant, but my my middle child said, Um, well, why doesn't dad do that? Because I'd just come off the main stage, right? Even though it was earlier. And I was just ahead and I burst out laughing. Um, but my wife just really simply still just said, Because dad walks around, and if you want to talk to him, you can just talk to him. And she just was like, Alright, cool, and just walked off. Love that, and I just think in that moment, it's this beautiful picture where you go, Okay, you have my maybe then nine-year-old kid, and then you have this other brother or sister in the Lord, and what's this alleged kingdom conversation that we have built? And that conversation is you, young child, need to pay me money in order for you to talk to me. And I'm just like, This this is crazy, this the whole thing is crazy. Yeah, it doesn't exist here, and I've done it, I've done it in the past, and I've repented for it, and I'll never do it again. But it's it was just like it was just this class we moment. I wish you could have it all animated, you know, where it was like we can do so, so much better. And it, you know, well, anyway, that's just thanks for listening. No, that's great.

Calling Out The Celebrity Church Machine

SPEAKER_01 36:23

That's really good. And I I can I can definitely um understand a bit of what you're saying in terms of like what what your heartbeat is justice and worship, and what that looks like for you is going to these hardest and darkest places and leading worship and ministering there to you know people in in trafficking, you know. And um, I have a somewhat similar understanding in terms of the whole Hollywood media, arts, entertainment world. Um, the Lord kind of hijacked me, you know, I still do worship stuff, whatever, but I thought that'd be the main thing. And it was years ago when the Lord began to break my heart for Hollywood and gave me this desire to write, um, to do screenplays and movies and musicals and live stage theater and all this stuff, which is not my background, not my dream whatsoever. But now, you know, it's a weird thing. Like a lot of people would look at that and say, like, oh, cool, you want to go to brothels and lead worship in bars? That's not my dream. Um, or oh, cool, you want to write a musical? That's for like old people. Like, why do you want to write a musical? That's like weird, you know. Um, but you have to, you know, undoubtedly, uh I'd love to ask you this because I know for me, it's come with a stigma. Um, to because when you're not pursuing the norm, when you're not doing what everyone else is doing, what they think you should be doing, uh I I've experienced it many times from Christians, from believers, like a negative stigma about what I'm pursuing. Have you have you had to deal with that in your life from friends, family, and obviously from the record labels you did? Uh like, dude, what are you doing, Aaron? Like just do the main and plain. Like, you had have you had to deal with that?

Disappearing From Charts To Find The Broken

SPEAKER_00 37:59

No, honestly, not not really. I do know when when I kind of was in the full throes of uh throws, sorry, of experience in all of the whatever you want to call it, the contemporary Christian music world. Um I was extremely grounded in the fact that I live in an environment where none of that exists. Nothing of what I had seen ever existed, um, and it still really doesn't to this day. Now at times it encroaches in, um, but I'd never seen you know, like Christian celebrities. Like that just was really wasn't now. We we heard of like the Billy Griams and that kind of stuff, right? But this idea of like superstars just didn't really it didn't it didn't exist in my world, and uh sorry, your your world being Ireland or your world being like your city or well, really, and and probably the culture well defin the culture of this whole island is there's not there really isn't superstars. We honor the gifts that are in people for sure, and you know, I thought about like I know I shared about like that um that festival. Let me just digress slightly, right? I came back and I played at that festival years later, and I thought a lot more about this idea of the currency of Caesar, and how do we how do we move away from it? Because if Jesus never bought into it, then how dare we? Like, what did he do? He didn't go and hang out with Roman elites or any of that stuff. He came and he served and he loved people. So if he never bought into this currency of Caesar, then how dare we, right? And it's not a question of fame. I think fame is fame's different, it's more just like people know who you are, it's what you do with that fame, is where I think we we get we've kind of like skewed this up a little bit. And I remember it has to be it has to be like a two-way street. So if I'm standing on a stage, if I ever think that I'm anything above or more important or more elect or more any other word than anyone else that's standing there in my congregation, then I I shouldn't be there. And then also if you're in the pews and you're looking up and you're elevating this person, you're propagating the whole thing as well, and you're part of this whole kind of currency of Caesar system, and so you need to change and you need to we need to learn a different language and a better way of looking at that. Um, and so I kind of I prayed at this festival and I said, Lord, I was given a Thursday night, the whole Thursday night, to lead worship or just do whatever, and uh they trusted me, and so it was like just spoto, just have at it, and uh and so I played and I I said Lord, I think where is a really healthy boundary, is I appreciate you, is that's enough, and I said, Let's start there, and if anyone's ever gonna say anything, I I don't want people coming up and going like oh my goodness, your worship is the best worship, right? That doesn't make any sense at all. It's like because it's like it's you're it's all an individual thing, you know what I mean? We all collectively worship together, so that doesn't make any sense to me. Um, and honestly, just in every single person they came up afterwards, just you know, I'd be standing talking to a friend or whatever, and someone would come up and just go like, yo, Aaron, I'd be like, Yes, and they'd be like, Really appreciate you, and then we'd walk off, and that's it. And I just thought it was such it was such an answer to prayer where it was like no one was coming up saying all this crazy stuff, you know what I mean? And can I take a selfie with you? And you know, all this kind of whatever. It's just like appreciate what you do, and it's like I appreciate my kids' teachers, I appreciate you know the soccer team coaches and the you know and the medical world and how they give of themselves, you know, and it's like it's the same thing, it's like it's okay to call out the golden people and honor people, but this currency of this system that's created that's probably all about cash, if we all boil that down, because you know, the more famous you are, the more money that can be generated, and so on and so on. So it's probably all about that. But to go back to your original thing, um, I I I never had any pressure, so I never I never felt like someone was telling me when we were touring, there was definitely times where it'd be like it'd be really good to do this, you need to do this, you should stay out and go here. I I did a showcase and I didn't even know it was a showcase. I genuinely just thought I was leading worship somewhere, and uh, you know, and I didn't realise that everyone that's standing there is industry people and they were all gonna start booking festivals, you know. I I literally thought I was at a church service, you know. That's how naive in the middle of all of this we were. I had no idea. Well, um so yeah, I I just I'd never never had any pressure, and people here back home, they they know what my family does, they know we go away, they know I'll play wherever I can, and there's no errors or graces, and uh we raise as much money as we can to keep a bunch of kids in families, and that's it's just dead simple. Yeah, it's really lovely, you know. My church community is just it's just lovely.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

So, what what does worship and justice look like for Aaron or for for someone who's listening to this possibly who says, Man, I have I have a similar heart for justice, but I'm a student or I'm in college or you know, I have a nine to five job in a whatever business. What does worship and justice look like on a normal Tuesday afternoon for you and then for someone who might be might be listening to this?

Practical Pathways For Worship And Justice

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um I think so. For me, when when when I do things like uh short term mission trips and that kind of stuff, I was just in Ethiopia and South Africa, and we were visiting a bunch of churches that are seeing incredible results in the economic empowerment world where you have single moms that are on the verge of giving up. Child and uh like 80, I think it's about 85% of kids that are in orphanages have a living relative, right? And there's like a hundred and whatever the numbers keep changing, and thankfully they they're going down. I I think it's around like a hundred and thirty million orphans across the world that that would be classed as as orphans. Now, of that 80% of people that are in an orphanage, what's the reason that they're there? And it's poverty. Okay. So this idea of like we sometimes when we think of orphans, we think of double orphans where both parents are absent and there is no one that can take care of them. Now, that for sure absolutely exists, but a lot of times it's like a parent, maybe because of different reasons, uh, the husband leaves, and the wife then is left to fend with you know three or four kids, and so she might think the best way to bring these kids up is to actually place them in an orphanage because at least they're gonna get fed, they're gonna get looked after. But God's design was always that we're in family, and that was always been his story, and uh, and so when when you park that idea, and when we see those things and we are exposed to what is going on in some dark areas, I think the conversation is always how do I let that moment affect my everyday life? And let's not be arrogant to think that I'm going to fly over to some foreign country for 10 days and really make this a massive dent in what is going on and like solve all our economic problems and sort everything out. But it's like, how do you let that infiltrate your world on a daily basis? Um, and one of the talks actually that my my wife when we were traveling together, um, she was sharing, I think it's please don't quote me on this, like I think it's judges five and six, and it's the story of uh of Deborah. And Deborah is a she's actually one of the judges who was genuinely a judge. She sat at a city gate and acted as a judge on issues, and then as the story all unfolds, there's a whole bunch of people's crazy names in the middle of it. There's Barak, there's Jal, there's all this stuff, but essentially she hears about injustice that's going on in the north of the kingdom. Now that's not affecting her, right? But she hears about it, and then there's this conversation with the Lord where he downloads stuff and he's like, I need you to go and do this, this, this, this, and this. All right. So then she gets her military guy, and uh, there's great conversations. I don't see, I think it's Judges 5 and 6. Um, essentially, the Lord then gives her this whole strategy, and then she goes north and uh she lets that infiltrate her world. The the Lord's plan works out, and then the enemy commander, he Sisera, I think his name is, he runs, he flees, he flees to the house of Jal, who's another woman, and in the in the story, it was prophesied that the Lord would deliver the hands of the enemy into a woman. Uh you think it's going to be Deborah in the story, but actually, lo and behold, it's Jal, and there's so many great points actually in the middle of that. And then when Cisera comes in to their tent, because there's also a moment where, like, it's why were they staying where they were, or they should have been with their tribe, they were actually right on the border, and so there's all these great pictures about making friends with the enemy and all this kind of stuff. Um, but for some reason, then Jal, after she gives this guy milk, uh, he falls asleep. See, it's that story where she kneels his head to the floor with Henpe. So you've got two women that one used their voice, and the other one used what was physically in her hands, as bloody and gruesome as that sounds. And I think that's just the call in all of our lives is that we can use our voice and we can use what the Lord has given us. And so when we're exposed to stuff that goes on in the world, we let the Lord write turn this almost like this heart of stone towards injustice into a heart of flesh. Then once that begins to happen and we begin to ask, Well, what can I how can I use my voice outside of even just singing, just if you're not a musical, you still have a voice. What can you do in your everyday life? And then how can you use your voice in order to help a bunch of people? And injustice looks like lots of different things. It could be uh it could be local for you, it could be within your family, it could be um just in your wider neighborhood, it could be on the other side of the world, it all looks completely different. So I think letting the Lord turn that heart of stone towards injustice into a heart of flesh, and then finding out how can I use my voice and how can I use what is in my hand in order to help, I think that's a really great starting point. Um and it infiltrates really every part of your life. So for me, music how do I engage with music in order to help people love God and love your neighbor? When we love God, that's worship. When we love our neighbor, it's an act of worship to God as well, because it's it's just the whole thing is inextricably linked, you know. So worship and justice, it's like the same, it's the sick the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

I love that, dude. Thank you so much for for your time here. Just a couple more quick questions, and then uh we'll let you go. Right now, uh, you have some new projects that you're working on. You just released a single more are coming. Give us a second about um about that as I'm taking a few pictures here for uh for Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

No problem. So I um yeah, it's actually the my probably my longest project I've ever worked on. Uh every Thursday night in my home group, we hit play on our church website on YouTube, and uh there's a bit of teaching, and then there's questions, and then we talk about that and we pray and we read scripture, and I absolutely love it, it's just brilliant. Um, a real special time. And so I I had this idea where it's like, well, I my wife now gets to travel a wee bit more because the kids are older, she's a great Bible teacher, absolutely passionate about the word, and uh so let's do something together. Um, so I have the Tabernacle Project, which is an eight-week home group resource. I wrote eight songs about finding Jesus in the middle of the tabernacle, and about each station. What the payoff is is that you know, like there's week eight that we're living stones, that we are the temple of the spirit, and all of that good stuff that goes along with that. So I wrote eight songs, I recorded eight videos for them, and they're part of the home group night, but then independently the songs are released as the tabernacle project. So first Friday every month something drops.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

So where can they get the the curriculum? Is that on the website?

SPEAKER_00 51:09

It will be on my YouTube page when it is uploaded at the start of May. It is going to be on my Armboard music page, it'll be branded just as the Tabernacle Project, week one, week two, and you just get a bunch of people in a room, hit play, it's all self-contained. Okay, it starts up. Scriptures will be on the screen, you read that, then there'll be teaching, then there'll be questions, and then we're going old school every single week. You will be given a memory verse to learn.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Very nice, very nice.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Well, if you're a new believer, you're gonna walk away with eight new scripture verses that will always be online, and uh, whenever the Lord you know brings them up, you'll you'll have them there if you dig in and just do the homework and uh have great discussions.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

But the first song dropped this past Friday, correct?

SPEAKER_00 51:56

Uh the sixth, it was uh out in the sixth, a song called Bow Down. Okay, okay, and another one comes out, and then the next one's gonna be the holiest of holies, and then after that, it is the full project. I don't know, I'm losing my dates here, but uh yeah. Oh good the first Friday of every month, something drops.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

You check out my socials, I'll have stuff on that.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Okay, we'll put that in the show notes here for sure. So, final question I love asking um a lot of my guests this question. Have a lot of entrepreneurs, business people, uh creatives who listen to this uh this show. If you had something to share, like you had like 30 seconds with someone in an elevator, and uh you knew they were a creative or an entrepreneur, love Jesus, what's one piece of advice or wisdom you'd give them?

The Tabernacle Project: Songs And Study

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Um that's a really good question. I would say, I know this is gonna sound maybe like quite cliche and trite. I would say the most important thing, regardless of what the outcome of what we're doing is, is genuinely understanding your identity in Christ first and foremost, because everything flows and stems from that, and your choices will be affected by that in an infinitely better way than if you're doing something and trying to find out who you are in the middle of that. It's like the cart before the horse. So when you find out your identity in Christ and live out of that space first, I think everything else will be a better, it's not it's I'm not saying it's gonna be easy, but there'll be a better grace in the middle of it, and uh, I think it'll be a little bit more exciting.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

I love that. That's a great answer, dude. That's a great answer. Aaron Boyd, thank you so much for your time. Again, if you guys um don't follow him yet on Instagram, give him a follow, check him out on Spotify. Again, God of the City. Uh, if you don't know that song, go back and listen to there's there's stuff of versions out there, but Chris Tomlin covered it years ago. Phenomenal song. I've led that song dozens and dozens of times over the years during my stats. It's a great um just declarative uh intercessory song, if you will. Um, and so uh very, very grateful that the Lord gave us that song through you, bro, and you took the um stewardship to you sang that thing in this horrible city in this bar, and then you're on the bus afterwards, you're like, what was does anyone remember that? You know, like you you did the due diligence to do that, you fought um for what you felt in your heart was true and right, for the justice of that song, even to see the proceeds, you know, go. Very, very inspiring story. Really appreciate your your devotion to the Lord and your time to do this podcast with us here. Thanks so much for sharing. I know that uh my viewers, my listeners are really blessed by that. And definitely look forward to uh to keeping in touch, dude, and hopefully having you on the podcast again here.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Appreciate you, man. Appreciate what you do.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Really good. Thanks, brother. We'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

All right, bro. God bless.