Ep.18_Bryan Caulkins and Manuel Ortiz on Financial Planning for the (pre/post) Immigration Process

On this episode we had featured guests Manuel Ortiz VP of Global Business Development at FPP who leads our global efforts bringing EB-5 services and educational resources to underserved countries around the globe - and Bryan Caulkins, co-founder of Proxy Financial. This is a unique partnership between two people that really understand what it takes to assist in immigration planning. 

After 10 years of working on Wall Street,  and having a unique bi-cultural background – Bryan gained the desire to expand his expertise into international wealth management. Together with his partner, Bryan founded the Proxy Financial group in 2017 to serve as fiduciaries for US nationals and citizens around the world, seeking to protect, grow and diversify their investments in the United States - including a unique immigration planning service. The Proxy team has served hundreds of families adequately create their immigration and financial plans in order to move to the US.

During this  episode, Manuel highlights the EB-5 program, sharing some of his personal experiences while discussing the investor due diligence process., while Bryan  discussed the role that financial planning should play in the immigration process and the services Proxy Financial can offer to clients.

WEBINAR: September 20th at 10am CT
https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_pGpljULvSvqK4b6qGO7KZA 

CONTACT:
Bryan Caulkins : bryan@proxyfinancial.com 
Manuel Ortiz: mortiz@firstpathway.com 

Transcript

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Today's episode of investing in the American Dream podcast we have featured guests, Manuel Ortiz, VP of Global Business Development at FPP, who leads our global efforts bringing EB five services and educational resources to underserved countries across the globe. And we have special guest, Brian Calkins, co founder of proxy financial. This is a unique partnership between two people that really understand what it takes to assist in the immigration planning process. After 10 years of working on Wall Street and having a unique bicultural background, Brian gained the desire to expand his expertise into international wealth management. Together with his partner, they founded the proxy Financial Group in 2017. To serve as fiduciaries for US Nationals and citizens around the world, seeking to protect, grow and diversify their investments in the United States, including a unique immigration planning service. The proxy team has served hundreds of families adequately create their immigration and financial plans in order to move to the US on today's podcast, man, while we'll be defining the EB five program, sharing some of his personal experiences while discussing the investor due diligence process. And Brian will be discussing the role that financial planning should play in the immigration process and the services that proxy financial can offer to our clients. Let's get into it. Brian and Manuel, it's so great to have you both here today. I'll start with you, man. Well, can you give us some background on f p p? Yes, first pathway partners is located in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We were founded in 2008 by Robert Kraft, and we're an EB five capital firm. We work with invest with international investors that are looking to migrate to the United States. We have way 100% track record, and investors obtaining their permanent green card. And we've also done something that's really important in the EB five process, we've actually completed the cycle, which means that we've gone through the whole EB five process and returned investor capital, man, well, you just mentioned EB five, can you discuss what that process is? What are the steps, what's involved? Sure, the EB five program was actually created by US Congress in 1990. And one of the things that's really interesting and really cool about the EB five program is that, you know, it was around for such a long time. And it didn't really start getting popular until about 2008, when the US economy and the global economy really went through that the great recession. And so it started getting popular around that time, because developers were actually looking for ways to continue their projects in the US was looking for ways to continue to create jobs during a very difficult financial time. So it started getting popular in 2008 2009. And really, the investment amount, and the program itself had virtually remained unchanged until 2022. Now, when the changes in 2020 22 happened, I think the one thing that everybody really focuses on is that the investment amount changed from $500,000, to$800,000. But what I think hasn't changed is the power of what EB five actually is. And so it's an $800,000 investment that covers the applicant, the spouse and any unmarried children under the age of 21. And they're able to obtain permanent US residency that way. And I think that's very important, the word permanent, because there are other visa options that are out there. But none of them are permanent, like EB five is. And you know, you just talked about one of the main reasons someone would be interested in Eb five, but what are some of the other common, like benefits or reasons that someone would be interested in Eb five versus some of the other types of visas available? I think it's a very varies pretty much on a case by case basis. At first pathway partners. We've worked with over 600 investors in our history to go through the process and the reasons can vary sometimes for political reasons in their home country, people are looking to migrate. Other times what you find most often is that parents are looking for an alternative to an f1 visa, which is the student visa when people come study here in the United States, and the reason is because it does not actually match the power of what US residency does or the power of EB five. When somebody studies on an f1 student visa in the US you're able to come study in the US And but you're now also paying international tuition fees. And so those can be sometimes two or three times higher than what a US resident would pay. Now, by having us residency through the EB five program, now you're able to get the savings of tuition, which is great. But other than that, you know, when you're on an f1 visa, and you graduate from university, one of the things that happens is that once you graduate, you're really depending on a US corporation to sponsor you. So you can be able to stay in the US and actually work here. And the visa, that is, when a corporation sponsor, somebody is called the h1 B. And if you look at the numbers from the last year, where there were over, I think it was 700,000 applications for h1 B's, and you know, somewhere with within 12 to 14% were actually approved, it really virtually is a lottery lottery, so you never really know whether you're gonna get one or not. And as you look at what corporations are doing now, basically, it's an additional cost for them. And so the likelihood that you're going to be able to find that you know, is getting just slimmer, slimmer, harder and harder. And through the EB five program, you save on your university costs, but you can also work wherever you want, right, because that's the other thing, let's say that you do get the h1 B, and you're working for a corporation, well, the role of what you're going to do is going to be pretty limited, because it has to be based on what you studied. And you may not want to live in that particular city where you're getting sponsored. Or like those sorts of things kind of come into play as well. Whereas with EB five, you could basically work wherever you want, and you have a much wider you can cast a much wider net in terms of employment than you can with the f1 visa. So those are some of the reasons sometimes it's just for the students. And sometimes it's a whole family that wants to migrate and achieve the American dream. And it sounds like there's a lot of like planning involved. And with the investment aspect, we actually have our guest today, Brian, on our podcast. And so I guess my my question for Brian, because I know you're kind of playing a role in the financial planning and investors looking to go through the immigration process. Can you Brian, can you tell us about proxy financial and what you guys do and how you help investors? Yeah, absolutely. We do something unique, Jessica, that when we first started talking to Manuel A while back, he realized like, hey, this, this is different in the immigration space. Where investment advisors, right, so we're registered with the SEC, to provide investment advice, and also part of that license and registration comes the financial planning aspect. Right? Some people don't realize that that has to be a registered and licensed professional that can give advice like that. Because if if creating a financial plan, right, Jessica, you want to retire 20 years from now? Yep, maybe it's 10. Maybe it's 15. Right? But down the line, you want to retire. And we're saying well, you should put some of your money away in a savings account, another piece of your money should go to an IRA, right? An individual retirement account. When you say something like that to somebody that is investment advice, right? So it's and, and honestly, it's detrimental to a person's life. If you say, okay, Jessica, you know what, you're a conservative person, just put all of your money in savings, and you'll be fine. happens, it just so happens that 2030 years from now, it's not going to be fine, because savings accounts do not yield as much returns as other types of accounts and other types of investments. And you're guaranteed to erode your money with inflation. And then what happens down the line, you can't make up that time, you can't get time back. So as you can see, I jumped into the deep end and the technical side of what we do just to kind of exemplify what is it that an investment advisor does and the unique thing about proxy is that we were born with an international footprint. I myself, I am gringo. I was born in the States, American family. And but I grew up in South America. I grew up in Brazil. And so being a dual culture kid, I've always been fascinating, fascinated about cross border investments and all that stuff. And when I started one of the motivations to start my own investment advisory firm together with my partner was exactly that was to be able to cater and to serve the international middle class, the international investor that did not have anybody to help them bring hedge their money makes sense of it from an American point of view. And that's how I was born. Working with international clients, what would you say are some of the things that are often overlooked? And someone is looking if someone is looking to immigrate to the US? Yeah, that's a great question. And we've seen over the years, we have lots of experience in this helped helped hundreds of families migrate to the states. And we always see this home bias, it is always so overlooked when it comes to investments. Because as we know, we are creatures of habit, every human being right. And we tend to invest, and things that make us comfortable, right. So if you, if you drive by a supermarket every day to work, throughout decades, your kids grew up going to it, chances are if they have a public publicly listed stock, that you might invest in that and you say, Hey, I liked that supermarket, it's clean, it's nice. Customer service is good, their sales seem to be booming, that company is going to resonate, and it might show up in your portfolio. What's not going to show up in your portfolio is probably a supermarket that's halfway across the world and Eastern Europe, that sales are booming, and they're expanding their footprint. And they're just like growing leaps and bounds. Very little things would motivate you a retail investor, as we call that category, to go invest in something that's halfway across the world that you don't understand and don't know. And that's probably a wise thing, right? That's one of Warren Buffett's mantras is invest in things that you know, right. And so that's one of the main things that's overlooked. We have many clients from Latin America. And they have this concept in their minds that the investments in the states don't yield good returns, that their home country, Colombia, Brazil, Chile, that's where the good returns are. And so what happens is the family makes a plan to move to the states, they invest a ton of money into a an opportunity, like an EB five visa with FPP. And they start their journey to America, but they keep their financial routes and their home country. And that is just an absolute recipe for disaster because you're not investing in a strong currency. Right? You're not creating income, through probably the best vehicles, considering tax considering strategy and strength in the States. And folks really, really overlook that. A lot of times, you know, you mentioned risk and all investments have risk, really. But how do your clients best assess risk as they are evaluating your investment products? And can you also expand a little on the type of investment products that proxy has? Sure, absolutely. So the team at proxy has 20 years of investing experience on Wall Street. And that that means that they have a global experience? Right? I know, as I said, I grew up in Brazil, and I understand the financial markets component down there very well. Brazilians tend to invest in Brazil, right? Because there are very few companies that are going to issue stocks in Brazil or issue a bond. In Brazil. I don't mean to be too technical here. But the United States and Wall Street forever has always been a global playing ground for capital markets. So our team is experienced in investing globally, using the American safety box. Let's put it that way. The American financial system, the American Stock Exchange's, right, all of them to invest not only here, but in companies around the world. And so you mentioned something really interesting about risk that every investment carries risk, right? Even the stalwart of capital markets like a government treasury, right, that you can lose money and Treasury and oh, I only lose money if the government goes bankrupt. No, that's not true. You can lose money, short term because of fluctuations in the market. And people don't realize that and I love that aspect of it. Because honestly, if you're not dealing with it day in and day out, that might go unnoticed. And so here in the American market here, just for you to have a comparison, right. Alibaba issued their stock right the IPO their stock globally, in the US, right the the ad the Chinese Amazon, this behemoth of a company, first IPO their their original IPO was in the US And that just goes to show how, what a global playing field, the stock market in the States is, and how you can access any degree of risk you want. Right. So if you want to invest with very low risk, you have your treasuries, your, your bonds, your CDs, and those types of products, all the way to the other end of the spectrum where we have the high growth companies which are, might or might not work, right. And they, they create innovation, and they reinvest their money, a lot of them are low last generating companies. But they invest in and there they have products that are going to be developed for the future, right? Compare Walmart, as we know it today, to Amazon, right, so to two, they both play in the retail space. But they both do it very in very different ways. One has an old school business model that was created in the 50s, and 60s, and the other has a business model that was created around the 2000s. So proxy, the team, a proxy can offer those investments, always through a an account that's owned by the client, right? So it's not, you never send money to proxy, or to an investment advisor, it's always to your account in your name. And then proxy through its investment management service can manage those investments, according to your risk tolerance, right? So we start there. What is your plan? When do you plan to immigrate to the States? What are your goals, your hopes or dreams? But also what are your fears? What makes you uncomfortable. And then from that, from the the psychologist, the chair, right proxy will create a investment plan for that family, and then allocate according to the markets and markets change every day. And that's why our our investment style is we call it as active management. So we keep we keep a pulse on the market. So the clients don't have to. And you just mentioned like planning. And I think one of the things that we're most familiar here in the US when it comes to like planning and investments and Estates is, you know, estate planning. But when you're dealing with immigration, and our clients, in particular, the term often used as pre immigration efficiency planning. And I know you're an expert in that field. So can you tell us a little bit more about what that means? Yeah, absolutely. So when it comes to immigration planning, there are there are several aspects to it. That are quite novel. And I was surprised many years ago, like I said, there it was one of the motivations of founding proxy was to offer to offer services that middle class Americans, let's call it right, so any any regular Joe has access to the services in America. And I've I've lived in many places around the world. I've lived in Europe, I've lived many years in South America. This is not accessible to the general population. It's incredible. And the key word, Jessica is the fiduciary aspect. And fiduciary means someone that you can trust, right? So think of a doctor, right? We don't walk into the doctor's office and say like, Hey, what, why are you recommending this and show me the class and show me the book where it tells me you got to perform a surgery on my eye, we generally take that advice at face value, and say I trust this person. There's a regulatory system that monitors doctors and recommendations, and yada yada, yada, and malpractice, right? And so I trust that the system is monitoring this professional, and this professional has my best interest at heart when they recommend something. So that was a very deep thought with, you know, lots to unpack there. But the way we guarantee that in financial services is through compensation. So if I am a investment advisor, I can only get paid by my client. So that means that if the client logs into their account and they open their portfolio and lo and behold there's two funds and there's three ETFs and there's a few stocks. I Investment Advisor did not have any conflict. For those things to arrive in your portfolio. I bought Microsoft because Microsoft is what you need to retire 20 years from now, happy and healthy, right? And I can't get paid by Microsoft, like a little commission, a little kickback, to move it into the portfolio. So that keeps the, my my my thought process clean when recommending investments, and also obviously, like every licensed professional in America, we are audited. And we have to renew our licenses. And there's a process there. And so there's a there's a recycling and refreshing aspect to it as well. And in all of that, to go back to your question about the planning, right. So when we when we look at all of that background knowledge, right of how of the fiduciary and how the fiduciary operates, when we recommend to a family, we've been doing financial planning, the team at proxy for 20 years. And about six years ago, when proxy was founded. What we did was add a component of immigration planning to the traditional financial planning service. Okay. So we have your retirement your have your succession, your kids college and you know, the vacation home or the boat. The generation of income when you're no longer working. We have these basic tenets in financial planning. Proxy follows the the Financial Planning Association, Global Financial Planning Association, the FPA. A lot of people know that designation CFP. And and so we follow that methodology. And we added another component, another pillar for immigration planning. And we help the client unravel the complexities of what assets do I bring to the states? Do I bring them? Do I bring them before I step on the plane or after? Years before years after? Right? Which ones? And what's the financial and the tax implication. And Manuel mentioned something really interesting, which is the education component, right? Something between 90 to 98% of immigrants at any given year, are moving to the States because of their children. Right? I've seen these industry statistics in the past, and colleges a big ticket in Brazil, sorry, in the States, colleges, a big ticket in the States, especially if you consider if you compare it to Europe, where you can go to a very good college and play pay a couple 100 euros a year. Some countries in Latin America college is completely free. A university degree in one of the best schools of the country is free. And that is not the case in America. It is not only not free, very expensive. And so we help the client make sense of what are the what are the tools. So for example, for green card holders and people that have a social security number, they can make use of a investment account. Let's call it the 529. And the 529 account allows you to invest money into an age into for educational purposes. And how does that work? So you put money in the money grows? If you use that money with the growth for education, you don't pay taxes on the growth. Look at that mean, how many things in America can you invest and not pay taxes? Right? So I'm just peppering in a few ideas just so that folks can can can picture that in their mind of how how an a practical level proxy would help you plan your immigration? Hmm, yeah. And I think that the pre immigration planning is just so essential to this process, and it's something that maybe isn't considered. And that's why this partnership, you know, with FPP, and proxy is just so beneficial to the clients. So kind of like taking a step back and going back to Eb five and the steps of EB, EB five and all of this immigration process planning. Can you kind of outline the steps that an investor should or would take as they plan to immigrate to the United States? Of course, they have to consider how to leave their home country in the most efficient manner, but also plan for their financial future here in the US. Yeah, absolutely. So I would say the first step and and this can be in any professional doesn't have to be proxy proxy does it differently because we will start working with an immigrant family. When they're not here. Usually an investment advisor in the states only starts working with somebody once they're here. Um, but I would say the first thing is reach out to a professional. It is just incredibly complex. Even for Americans born in America, right? They're seeking advice from investment advisors, how do I retire? 20 years from now, it is just too hard. There are too many products, too many complexities. And honestly, it will suck a lot of time out of your day in your life, for you to wrap your head around it. So the first thing would be, but and I know a lot of immigrant families or families are planning, immigration, are talking to the folks at FPP are talking to their immigration attorney, a lot of cases they reach out to an international tax attorney or a CPA that understands international tax. And you need to start organizing yourself years before you come to the States. And why is that because you have succession rules for assets in your home country. We proxy has been involved in in the creation of holding companies, for our clients, for example, in Brazil, and that takes years for you to pass that holding company on to the next generation. Why do they want to do that? Because the the EB five investor, when they arrive in the States, and they have that first tax return that they have to file with Uncle Sam, they want to file that tax return with no income coming from their home country, because that could be a complication, right? Another thing is, when you do your EB five investment, you now have, you now have an asset in your wealth that's outside of your home country. And it's in the US. And now you fall under succession rules in the US. And it can only be done in your name. Personally, you can't do it in the name of a company, a corporation or an offshore company, which is a popular, you can't do that the USCIS needs to see that receipt in your name of the investment that went in for for the FPP private equity project, right? The EB five. So you need to organize yourself with these various components. You need to think about the transition as well. Right? So you're now going to have one foot in America and one foot in your home country, right? Do you want to come live in the States? Do you want to take advantage of a status adjustment, for example, that has pros and cons. Now you can't go back home if you do, right. And then AF post migration, you have your cost basis true up. So all of your assets and your home country, Uncle Sam gives you a pass and says okay, you've received your green card and 2023 We're going to use the asset prices of 2023. What does that mean? So if you inherited a farm from your great grandfather, or grandmother, that's worth 10 million. And over the your lifetime now that farm is worth 50 million. If you were to sell that you would have a huge amount of capital gains, right in the eyes of in the eyes of Uncle Sam, don't forget, you're now file a tax return in the States. And most cases in your home country as well. So that tax return in the States is going to say okay, you had 40 million of of capital gains that you gotta pay taxes on. But the year you get your green card, the US government allows you to true up that asset base. And so now your farm is worth 50 million. Right. And so if you sell it the next day, you have zero capital gains in the States. And so as you can see, these are very complex conversations. And people need to start having them well before they make the investment or they step on the plane to move to America. Right. And you've shared you know why you're such a great resource for that and why proxy is just such a great partnership with FPP and for our clients. And, you know, I want to ask man well, as we're talking about investors and what they should be considering, you know, with regards to Eb five investments, what are some of the things that investors need to be mindful of when assessing an EB five investment? Great question. I think one thing that I would like to point out as well also is that you know, when investors are also going through the EB five process, the important thing to keep in mind is that you know, that clock for the investor in every case is going to be different, but by and large, you know, you become the US person whenever you you get your conditional green card, which the processing times can pretty much vary. You know, obviously, if you go to the USCIS website right now you're looking at know that first up, which is I 526 application, you know, I think it's somewhere around 16 months for it to get processed USCIS is saying that they're going to, by the end of this year, they're gonna get processed within a six month period. And you know, after that is when you get your, your conditional green card, but the financial aspect of it really the clock starts whenever you do get your conditional green card. And I think that's, you know, if you're looking at the tax planning at that point, you know, I think it's going to be not impossible, you just need to work with somebody to help do it at that point. But if you're able to plan ahead, as what Brian is saying, I think that is definitely key. So I think it's just really important to look at the processing times. And when you actually become a US person whenever you're going through the EB five process. And you know, the thing that EB five investors should really pay attention to whenever they're looking at EB five projects, I think oftentimes, you have investors that visited a particular city, like let's say, they were in New York City, or they were in Miami, or they were in Los Angeles, and they love that particular city. And so, you know, sometimes you hear that they want to invest in a project only in a city that either they visited, they studied, or something like that. And I think that one of the things that's important to keep in mind is that every city is going to be different, every sub market within each city is going to be different. And really, the way to qualify EB five investments is always do your due diligence, but you have to look at it from two standpoints. On one side of it, you have to look at the project from the immigration standpoint, is it a good EB five project on the immigration side of things? Right? And all that means is, am I going to be able to come to become a US permanent resident? Through this program? Right, each investor is required to create 10 jobs. Right? And so is this project and allow me to create 10 jobs? So that's one of the requirements. The other requirement is the source of the funds and like those things, right, but you have to look at that project is, is it a good EB five project? And then also, will I be able to create the jobs that I need, so that I can obtain my permanent residency? And then I think, on the other side of things is you also have to look at the project, from the investment side of things, right? Is this going to be a good investment, because that's what that is what's going to dictate whether you get your capital back, in this case, the$800,000, and EB five investments do have a return. But I also think that if an investor is looking at an EB five investment, like they would, you know, something like what proxy Financial has, on the investment side of things, you're not really comparing apples to apples, because I think, you know, for the EB five investment is not an investment that you're making to be able to keep up with inflation or outpace inflation or something like that. Obviously, higher returns also mean higher risk. I think, from the EB five standpoint, the primary motivation is to migrate to the US obtain your permanent green card, either for your child isn't to be studied in the US or for the whole family if your children are unmarried under the age of 21. And you really have to look at it is, does this investment actually make sense? And so for example, you have some markets that, you know, have a bunch of construction going on for multifamily right now, right. And then the question is that once these apartments get constructed, and they're online, right, are they going to be able to get filled up? So does it make sense to have another apartment in next city? If there are already a bunch of them coming up? Right, is there a case for this? And so you just have to, like, make sure that the investment of it actually makes sense. And so I think you have to really, really look at it from those two tracks that in the investment side, and the immigration side. And you know, you mentioned different types of EB five projects and kind of going with the overall theme of today's podcast and talking about different investment options. Man, well, can you highlight some of the additional, I guess, factors of FPPS investment project? Tallis, I know you've touched on a few points already. But what really qualifies and makes this project such a great fit for EB five investors looking to immigrate here to the US? Yes, perfect. So I was actually just there. Last week, I have a very recent view of it. There's been so much progress. It's a project that started and mentally 2022 And it's just progressing just phenomenally. It's located in the Coachella Valley, which is roughly about a two hour drive from San Diego, Los Angeles and Orange County. And I think what's interesting going back to the point that I made about, is there a business case for this type of investment? And you know, we feel strongly that for the talus project that we have in the Coachella Valley There is a business case for this because if you look at the Coachella Valley, a lot of people know it just because of the Coachella Festival and those things, but there are a lot of other festivals that are there. But also, one of the things that happened during the pandemic is that, you know, people realize that they want to connect with nature more, you know, some people started moving out of the city, you know, people are moving out of Los Angeles, some of them are going to Texas, some of them went to other states, but others are moving to the Coachella Valley. And a lot more people are going to Coachella Valley just because of the nature aspect of it. Whether it's the wildlife, or the over 140 golf courses there, you know, the last couple of years in the Coachella Valley have been record breaking in terms of tourism numbers of people that are actually going to visit. And if you look at the number of hotel rooms, that existed in the Coachella Valley, in 2003, it was 14,000. And if you look at the number of hotel rooms in 2022, when we actually started construction of the project, it was still 14,000. And so they really didn't build anything over the course of the last 20 years. Meanwhile, you have more and more people moving there and more and more in record numbers, people visiting the Coachella Valley. And so people need a place to stay. And our project is a ultra luxury resorts that consists of the montage and the Pendry hotel brands located together for the first time at one project site. And the other really cool thing about this project is that it also includes a already existing Arnold Palmer designed pro golf course that's actually there already. And it's just really pretty, it's on the foot of the mouse and looks just great. And you know, one of the things also that I think is really interesting about it is that because it already started construction, back in 2022, the thing that I had mentioned initially was that each investor is required to create 10 jobs. Well, for this particular project, we are going to be working with 135 investors. So at 10 jobs each, it's 1350 total jobs. Well, to date, without the project even being finalized, we've already created 1500 jobs. So over the minimum requirements. So as an investor, you know that coming into this project, the risk from the job prospective, is off the table, it doesn't exist. Whereas if you go into a project that is starting construction, now you're still taking on the construction risks, and a lot of other dynamics may be happening as well, that, you know, could be a little bit riskier. So I think from the immigration conservative side, this project is ideal, and it does qualify for the $100,000 investment level as well. And you know, both of you, man, well and Brian have touched on some really great things today. In this episode, I wanted to also mention that this is a part of a series of podcasts that we're going to be doing with proxy. So I know we have two more episodes that we're going to be doing and then also webinars well for all of our listeners and clients and those interested in Eb five and learning more. But man while and Brian, as we wrap up today's episode, is there anything else you'd like to add? Or what advice do you have for potential investors out there that are thinking about investing in the EB five visa program? Or our new EB five investment opportunities? helis? I'm sure we both do. Do you want to go first? Sure, I'll go. Well, I would say just thank you very much for your time, we'd obviously would love for you to invest with us. But I will say that wherever you do invest, it's very important to study, the track record has the EB five capital firm returned EB five capital to investors, and we've actually completed the whole cycle. I think that's really important. I think oftentimes, you see you either get really interested in a particular location, or the marketing materials look really great. But what doesn't lie are, are the numbers really the track record? What have they actually accomplished. And I think, you know, whoever the EB five investor vest was, I think those are the things that you actually really want to focus on. And then also just focus on looking at a project from the immigration perspective, and also on the investment side, because oftentimes, it can be a really good immigration project, right? Oftentimes, you hear these labels that are thrown out a rural project, a TA project, all of these other things, and it can be a great immigration project, but it might not be a very good investment idea, and it might not be a good investment. And then that is actually what affects you getting your capital back right, which is investment dollars that you expect to get back there are returns with with these investments as well. And so, the returns again, aren't designed to outpace inflation, but they are designed to you know, cover some of the costs that you that go along with it, whether you're talking about your lead legal costs are your filing costs. So there's a return to cover that. And when you get your capital back, you know, that is capital that you're going to be using when you're now in the United States. So it's a very important aspect of it. And, you know, project, likewise can also be very good on the investment side. But it might not be a good EB five immigration project. So it really has to have both things. And no matter what always look at the track record. Absolutely. I mean, you touched on several aspects there, Manuel that we look at, at proxy, I mean, the story has to be there, right. Investments tell a story and your life has been impacted by the story of that investment. If it fails, for example, right, a disastrous experience. And but you can always tell the truth of what an investment or what we call technically in this world of private equity of a sponsor, right. With their track record, how well they performed and an example to that. That exemplifies what what Manuel was mentioning is the fund companies, right, so you have today products proxy, uses Blackrock ETFs, right. And his portfolios uses Vanguard ETFs. Like some of some of you listeners have heard of these in the past. Because these are behemoths in the financial markets. And they would not be around if they weren't if their numbers didn't show that it didn't align with the story. Right? And, and look forward to more content from our podcasts. Join us on the webinar, bring your bring your questions, bring your family, bring your friends, it's a time for you to get a really high profile advice live anonymously, of course, and we'll be talking more about this journey of immigration is not simple. It is not easy. It's very complex nowadays, and know that you have a team with FPP and with proxy that you can count on. That's gonna guide you in the right way. Well, Brian, and man Well, thank you again, so much for being on today's episode. I appreciate all of the invaluable information that you've both shared with our listeners, Brian about proxy and what your surfaces are for our listeners and our clients. And man well the background and insight that you provide on EB five. I want to mention to our listeners that this podcast episode is a part of a series so there will be another episode with proxy financial, and a webinar on September 20. So stay tuned for that. And if any of our listeners have questions and want to reach out to you directly, I will be sure to provide that information in the episode description. Thanks again. Thank you. If you would like to learn more about immigration through investment and how first pathway partners can assist you in achieving the American Dream by successfully navigating the EB five visa process, then please contact them directly online at www dot first pathway.com