spk_2:   0:05
Hi everybody. I

spk_1:   0:12
need you to be

spk_0:   0:14
scuba diving, diving or you didn't score

spk_2:   0:19
you depending on how

spk_1:   0:22
you have an official name.

spk_2:   0:24
That's you. Everybody welcome to the UDV. Scuba diving, Jeff. Second or CEO and with then boss are training director. Hey, and our super special guest, Sherry Ghoul, who is an awesome athlete and recreational diver I share.

spk_1:   0:45
Thank you for inviting me.

spk_2:   0:47
Oh, my God. Awesome. You're here. And so what are we talking about tonight?

spk_1:   0:53
So I know a little bit of that side mount from different perspectives, which is really interesting.

spk_2:   0:58
Yeah, Side mount,

spk_1:   0:59
from my perspective, is recreational diving. And, of course, been bosses. Um, perspective is way different from more, much more complicated diving.

spk_2:   1:10
Yeah, and I'm in the middle someplace, you know, lots of tech diving on the side mount and lots of cave diving outside. So, um yeah. So where do you start and see? You know where this conversation on recreational side mouth goes and what your experience is, Sherry are with it. How that turned into something super

spk_1:   1:26
cool. Yeah, Happy

spk_0:   1:27
to share a few little tool.

spk_1:   1:30
You what?

spk_0:   1:31
I view it as a tool. Okay, so I do site Mound is the job requires it? Or

spk_1:   1:37
would that be? Would it mean if the job requires?

spk_0:   1:39
I mean, Seidman was invented to go into very narrow spaces, so I do the set system. It is just a great generation of a side mount system where I think we can keep all are strong, consistent protocols in place and still reap the benefits of sight. My diving it's a light set up is easy travel with its very scalable one thing to tank multiple thanks. And it has the benefits off the consistency we have in the whole training.

spk_1:   2:17
So I'm just curious. So Simon seems to make so much sense. So when you're training your students and you're off and you know you meet them wherever you do in Europe or wherever it is that it's like even from the beginning that you don't introduce them just I mean, there's there's something I'm missing here, like it's just so much simpler. And it's so much easier on the especially new diver. You know all the weight, and I hate to say just for women, but tons of it, So it's kind of interesting. There must be a reason is it just tradition that people are just used to having tanks on their back? Yeah,

spk_0:   2:56
I guess it's tradition. I mean, if you learn if you're teaching new divers that maybe not, don't have their own equipment,

spk_1:   3:03
Okay? Because they're not gonna find side, side mount?

spk_0:   3:06
No. In the same way, because because way need take a step back and look at when Side Mount was invented. It was invented with very with a very specific goal in mind, right? It was invented. Go in the places where background divers couldn't fit Basically, and basically, they're the whole market kind of shifted a little bit. You got a some divers that wade the desire to go into places where they couldn't fit with background of doubles higher than the safety those back mounted doubles provided. So when you look at the development or the yeah, the development off a background of double set as we know it today it started off being two separate tanks on your back individually placed. So you have to individual sites are back mounted tanks, and they figured out that's a hassle, because you have to change regulated 100 water,

spk_1:   4:09
right versus them being

spk_0:   4:11
converted and be connected, right? So you got air sharing issues, all that sort of foreign hassle. So they figured out. Let's put these things together with the manifold because to have one huge tank is not feasible that don't exist. Yeah, So two tanks, together with the manifold. That's great. But then they ve ized. Hey, wait a minute. If that manifold gets compromised, we lose all of our gas. And that's when the ice available manifold got invented.

spk_1:   4:38
Oh, so

spk_0:   4:39
you have a twin zit on your back with a knob in the middle that isolates the left from the right tank. Happy days, everyone. Except except that to be the safest way of twins and diving. Some people think that there's no single point failure in that system. That's not entirely true, but it might be a good subject for another time. But that's an accepted way of, you know, responsibly diving a twin set Now. Now, when the Tide mound was used to go into these very tight spaces, those diver deliberately chose two. Give up that safety aspect of ice. A little twin set on back to two single independent tanks, and these were basically solo divers there were, They were diving. The way they were diving is they were doing dives where they accepted that any problem which might arise would be solved by them. So equipment, problems, anything would be solved by them. So

spk_1:   5:43
turn solo divers like just going down on their own completely.

spk_0:   5:47
Yeah, they're going down in their own completely, A bit like, you know, some mountaineers go climbing on.

spk_1:   5:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but kind of contradictory. Two contradictory to you TV right, which is in diving.

spk_0:   5:58
It's very is very guys a controversial, if you go solo diving or not. Some organizations even training divers to do solo dives, even though they're calling it self reliant divers or something. Other than that,

spk_1:   6:13
you agree with that.

spk_0:   6:14
I know to be. No,

spk_1:   6:17
it's just a stupid right. I may just does not make sensors. Diving is like the most dangerous sport I ever do. I mean, essentially

spk_0:   6:25
does risk of underwater that if you have some kind of medical well mishap in your body, if you fall over here and think you're still in an atmosphere, you can breathe in right. The problem with being on the water is if that happens. You

spk_1:   6:42
You dying? You gone? Yeah.

spk_0:   6:43
We're here to have a chat to China and sends it from right. Right. Right. So

spk_2:   6:46
this is really interesting, right? Because when you take this back to where we started this 10 years ago, where Utd came up with the idea of combining the safety of back mount isolated, isolated ble doubles with the convenience, the ability to move through small spaces offside mount and came up with this Z system, the Zed system. That was a whole gigantic change, sort of in the consciousness of side now, right? Yeah, because it now it gave you the ability to always have consistent air sharing, consistent emergency procedures. That and that was the really cool part of it of bringing this sir manifold ID system. Would you've experienced to, you know, to the the technical in the cave divers needed it to get into small spaces and caves or Rex. But then we discovered really fast that it's super cool in open water. Right, Right.

spk_1:   7:51
Totally.

spk_0:   7:52
Yeah. A lot of divers adopted, like any kind of sight mon diving. Basically also because it's a new thing. Like, especially now sidelined, This appears to be the new black right, But you got all these different, completely different configurations. Too long noses too short hoses, one long rows, one shoes And it sze really outlandish to to me that that there's no way, shape or form of standardization within that. Yeah, and it's just crazy to me, to me, have tried many different forms of side mounted independent doubles with long legs short. I always felt personally was a bit clunky, having tried to sit system as well because it's just a matter of keeping all the things you know, all the military skills you know in place. The only difference is the tanks on your side instead of on your back. I really I really enjoy.

spk_1:   8:45
Yeah, but what about the thing about you can jump into the water and someone hands you retain me? How that

spk_2:   8:52
so let's go back to share his background as a diver, which is super cool, right? Traditional recreational training, right? Yeah. BC octopus, kneel on the bottom, the whole thing. And then when you discovered you tedi, there is a small shift right into proper buoyancy. Proper trim, non silting propulsion which you took to like a fish out of water. It was amazing. And we're the first dives you did with Utd and background. Where did you go? Into Side Mount? Right off

spk_1:   9:24
You did side Mount right off. I mean, you introduced me to side Mount right off the bat. Yeah, Day one. So said Done. Traditionalists, all I knew was traditional. So Yeah, you and Energis. Me too, when we went to the pool up in Carlsbad. It's like what's going on here? And it was just to be completely honest, I mean for years have been diving and that incredible weight, especially when you go from the shore. If you do a night dive or something like that and you're walking in and even with one, it's just super heavy. Saw Elvis and I discover, or I was introduced to side Mount and you know, you get ready, you get your wet suit on. You get all the equipment you make sure everything's ready, you inflate your BC, you jump in the water and you're floating there, and someone just hands you this very heavy tank and you just hook it up. And it is amazing because you would think and my logical brain says, Well, I'm gonna be completely imbalanced in the water. I'm gonna just tip to the signs that got this big old tank that weighs so much, and it's just not that way at all. It's pretty amazing

spk_0:   10:35
because you're using a minion tank on DDE. A lot of divers also using sidemen with steel tanks to offset the fact that if you use another medium tank, you need to get that wait somewhere else,

spk_1:   10:46
right? But I think that no matter what kind of tank, I'm not sure what we use. But in the water when your sub submerged, the weight didn't make a difference.

spk_2:   10:55
No, no, you can't tell the difference

spk_1:   10:57
now. You can't tell

spk_2:   10:57
that outside. That doesn't make any difference.

spk_1:   10:59
So for me personally, it was just amazing to be able to do a dive, get used to kind of this different feeling. Have someone hand me the tank, not have toe, you know, jump over the side. You know, in the backward fashion, plugging your nose and just simply slip jump into the water. But, you know, first, fill your BC jump in the water. Someone hands you the tank, you just click your thing together. Boom. You go down, then you come up and you disengage and you just hand people on the boat, the tank and it's just kind of cool, you know, It just really makes sense. And it was super light and easy to be able to dive at whatever depth we were diving. And it just it was there. It didn't get in my way. It didn't get it. I was concerned about that, like side dive. Does that mean I won't be able to use my right arm on my left arm? And that didn't happen. I love skydiving. I really do. I love a sight. I think it's such a way to make, um, normal diving, not cave diving or anything. I don't know about that. I can't speak to that. But in terms of just open water diving, it just makes it so easy and so fun.

spk_2:   12:15
And you're I mean, we have to really get to the point that you're a really strong athlete. It's not like you can't pick up a tank,

spk_1:   12:22
right? No, I mean I can, but my preference is what I'm gonna do. Kind of an easy sport is forest exercise. Make it easy, you know, Make it fun, Make it convenient. Make it. And in that open water dive situation, it really is amazing. I just love it. I really love it. It is super easy. But comparing

spk_0:   12:43
comparing that zit system to a traditional side mount set up is a. It will be very clunky, to say the least, to do a traditional side mount set up side mount dive with a single tank. Because all the hoses you need you have to come off that whole, that regulator that's on the side Mount Tank. And it's almost impossible to configure that in a sleek way because it's like hoses sticking out left, right and center off the first age. So even though it's possible, it's very unlikely you'll see that so traditional side mount would have to have two tanks and then the Really

spk_2:   13:25
So So you're looking at us like, Why's that

spk_1:   13:27
while I've only had one tanks and I guess

spk_2:   13:29
I'm not using the manifold Z system, Okay. All right, so you've got that cylinder going into a distribution brought behind your head, and that block is sending gas to to regulators your BC, Your dry suit if you had one on, uh, but everything you probably never will again. Yeah. So that's the key to that. What would Ben is saying inside, man in traditional side that we call independent side. Now, um, that man a folding system doesn't exist, so all of the gas has to come off the regulators, and the hoses have to be routed in a way that say so. If you have one tank with one regulator, you've got all the hoses coming off that thing on your side. And it's kind of convey a cluster

spk_0:   14:20
very low key. F you like the situation you described? Jump into water. Someone hands you a tank from the back of the live aboard boat or something like that is one hose you connect, and you're good to go

spk_1:   14:35
right? As well as excuse me, but as well as going on and died from the shore where you know, clunk down versus just carry your tank. It floats quite rapidly. You get to a place, think about that. You get to a place where you can just connect it, clip it up and off you go right into a place. I mean, It's not just, you know, live aboard and everything else is also from the shore. Yeah. I mean, sure,

spk_0:   15:04
diving also poses some challenges. If you do a short dive with two tanks because then you have usually a hand too little, cause you got hand for your fins, a hand for a tank, and then, yeah, one more tank. So,

spk_1:   15:18
no, that would be difficult. I'm talking about probably a shorter I'm not experienced enough. Tank, A single tank and single tank is for most of us that are you know, not I mean, record. We're recreational divers that love diving in these beautiful situations, but don't necessarily need to stay down for an outward. And now we're in a house. So that's that. I don't know, but I think that that's a majority of divers in the world. I mean, we're recreational. So if you look at the population of people that just love diving, we want to go down. We want a convenient We want it not so heavy. We want to be able to make it ah, possibility without the inconvenience. And if you make it easy for the majority of us that are recreational divers not this specialist. Divers that need, you know, the double tanks and need to be down and you'd be down at 200 where they bring a lot more of the, you know, a lot more gas. It's, um it's ideal is beautiful.

spk_2:   16:21
So let's talk about Let's talk about the Red Sea because this was the first big, huge open water side Mount trip that you did right, and with so the coolest thing I think about Side Mount in the Z system is that scalable? The other thing that makes me really excited. So, you know, we were able to do three dives a day on side Mount, and both of the systems yours and mine were rigged to be able to do single or double tanks and at these slightly medium deep deaths, right 100 feet, 30 meters. You know, you've got a tiny little breathing rate because you're a tiny little person, but I have a normal breathing rate because I'm a normal person, so normal sized person, so to do a single tank dive at 30 meters or 100 feet, it's hard to have enough gas to go the whole distance because you'll have enough. But you won't have enough for you and meat of ascent, right? You won't be able to keep rock bottom in the cylinders. So on those dives. So the first dive of the day. 100 feet, 30 meters. We both take two tanks. You're only gonna use one. But you're gonna have enough rock bottom gas in there in case I have a problem. And I need to use your gas to come up on the second dive. 20 meters, 60 something feet. You can take one because I need less. You need less. And I could take 1.5, which is what we were doing. I think on that trip, I think a flow one. Whatever was leftover half on the other one and plug those two in. You would take one, and we scaled it that way. And on the third dive of the day, which was like a little 20 footer Little, little, you know, six meter dive. We both take singles. And it's awesome because you're not reconfiguring anything. You're not changing the weight. You're not changing anything, right? Just the BC carries the way to the gas and you're waiting for your wet suit and the cylinders and all that has nothing to do with anything. And it was really cool because there was never any issue on gas.

spk_1:   18:19
Never know it's true that well,

spk_2:   18:22
and that trip had a ton of Zodiac diving, and I think most I don't about you. Most of the injuries I've seen in diving the physical injuries come getting in and out of Zodiacs with doubles is hard. It's hard.

spk_0:   18:35
I always tell the students regarding side might also that you gotta get into a mindset that there's not one single way off getting into the water or out of the water. When you're diving with side in background, it's you put it on your back and that's it, right? You either jump in the water or rolled backwards. That's about as different as it gets. If you do, Ah, Side won't buy from shore. You might wanna walk down to the shore first with your tanks and then from there, take it in. Maybe clip off your fins to your partner. Somehow, if you're diving in from a boat you could from a live aboard platform, you could have, you know, set it up all like sitting with your tummy on the platform, having your feet dangling over the side. You put all the regulators and all the tanks in places if they were in the water and just jump in in a dingy, you might clip the tanks to your Deering's on your chest and wait to sort them out and clean them up when you're under the water. So depending on how you get into the water, you might have a different approach. And this is something that a lot of divers have to get used to it. In the beginning, I think because they were so used to having one sit way off putting equipment on their backs or like our side mount and then they've have to, like, deal with that, like running around with tanks on their sides on the shore is not very fun is much easier, even those heavier on your back.

spk_1:   20:03
That's true, But you know what? I don't know. I guess I've never experienced running around with that tank. Still, that's the whole point of it. I never have the tank attached me when I'm on the shore or on the boat. I mean, that's the whole point if I may have to carry it, but it's not not attached me. I could just pick it up with my fingers and carry it that way. So it's just it's just interesting that it probably is more advantageous if you know you're on a live aboard or you're just doing a a daytime. If I doesn't be a low board, just a date. Ivan, I just want to make life so easy. And there's someone just handing. You think I'm sorry? I'm like, I'm sounding like a total we clean is true, but I

spk_0:   20:49
enjoy a break your back. Yeah. And I mean, this is this is a lesson to be learned nothing to a lot of divers that, you know, take stuff with them underwater. They don't need you d d. We have a very clear, you know, set of rules were here, too is very simple. We don't take anything on the water we don't need Well, yeah. Used inappropriate job to job, including gas, including gas. I mean, if you want to do Ah, 10 meter to shore dive. Yeah. Leave your double 12 or a double. 100 is at home because there's no point exactly been lugging it around that the beauty comes that if your configuration is the same, like the long hoses coming from your right new list, everything is configured the same. You don't notice per se if his one back one time behind your back to text behind your back, A one tank under your arm or two tank on your arm

spk_1:   21:45
when you're in the water.

spk_0:   21:46
A re breather on your on your back, for that matter,

spk_1:   21:48
when you're in the water

spk_0:   21:50
when they're in the water. Exactly,

spk_1:   21:52
but there's that whole time before. I think that's a 40

spk_0:   21:55
pounds right way. Want to always be able to rely on our motor skills? Are,

spk_1:   22:01
Yeah,

spk_0:   22:01
rendered set of protocols?

spk_1:   22:02
Absolutely. And the safety aspect of you TV, which is huge. It just makes you feel safe about diving together. Does Venus a team dining as a part with a partner? I mean, it's all hugely important. Diving is a relief this. Like I said, it's like I've done a lot of sports in my life. But diving is the one that that I pay the most attention to in terms of danger.

spk_2:   22:26
Don't I think that's the transition thing that made it so easy, right for you and for other people, is that all the protocols inside men are identical to the protocols on back mount. In our long hose and necklace thing, the air sharing is the same. Going to the necklace is the same. Emergency procedures are the same. You know. It's all pretty much the same

spk_0:   22:46
in the translates for open water down to cave diving. Yeah, Yeah, completely cause one thing like a an example I sometimes use for the more advanced divers is that we have a protocol. If visibility goes completely away in a cave and you need to share air, there's a protocol. That means we're topping on the regulator off the body we want air from, Is it? The visibility is gone. You're on the line, You're physically in conflict with it with the guideline, right? So you can find your way back because your physical contact with your whole team and you you give him three taps on their regulator. That air breathing and our protocol states, Regardless, you always donate from the gas

spk_2:   23:30
in your mouth. And why is that? Because you know it's working,

spk_0:   23:34
you know, his work

spk_2:   23:35
and is connected to a long hose

spk_0:   23:36
connected to all those. So

spk_1:   23:38
you take your oxen very right,

spk_2:   23:40
exactly. So as you know the necklace regular and you go to that and that's you know, that's where we keep looking at. How did these integrated procedures between background Seidman every breather, cave, open water, everything being like super cool and just seamless, you know, for training. And

spk_0:   23:57
it's just easy cause did you get you get people tryinto like sell you on the independent doubles side Mount Diving in Team is is also good. Well, I agree. Well, let's agree to disagree. I mean, I chill was to die of this system in a team because it keeps the emergency procedures consistent, because the fact is that if you have to donate a tank underwater in that scenario is impossible. I don't care who you are.

spk_1:   24:33
Oh, don't need a tank

spk_0:   24:34
because that's that's their solution, right? I mean, if you wanna share gas and you have to short hoses in a cave scenario, we have to pass a restriction in a team. Okay? Yeah, you can. You know this situation, you're on their line. How are you gonna manage clipping on a new tank. So 1/3 tank did want you. They won't work

spk_2:   24:56
Now. What's interesting about that, You know. So you're talking about a niche of a niche of a niche oven? Exactly. Maybe of a niche. Right? Cave divers stuck in a Nove Is emergency situation behind a restriction where you need side not to get out. But that is the birth point of view TV, right? The reason that we have been so successful in training recreational divers This would be brought these techniques off Xtreme cave diving and extreme technical diving to an open water recreational market. And there's no difference in the needs of somebody at 60 feet in 18 meters on ah, in an open water dive as someone in a cave in no visibility on the line. If you're out of gas, you need gas. Exactly. And so using these in the simplest way in the simplest, fastest way, mostly fastest. So using these things that you learn cherry and your training and side mountains shifting into this long hose and necklace configuration that's just gives you consistency throughout your diving career and consistency would like everybody else is diving in this system, There's no wondering. First of all, if somebody gives you an octopus if it's ever been used before, it's working if it's full of weeds and spiders and who knows what's in that thing? Uh, you know, we always talk about running out of gas, running out of air in training, but I like to re, uh, re ST frame That is not so much running out of gas, but as gas not available.

spk_0:   26:28
Yeah, because it could be anything. It's very well, so we should. But through it's gonna be anything regulator is doesn't function properly. Remembering a regulator breaks what every breath you take. You get a bit of water, and it's just annoying.

spk_2:   26:41
So gas becomes not available now within our little team of two or three. That's fine. We can have Gaston available and have all air sharing procedures done. But is it responsible? Toby in the ocean, especially in dives where you're surrounded by other recreational divers and not be able to do a clean, uh, at a gas situation Thio a population that might be more likely actually to have gas not available because they run out? Yeah, you know, recreational, untrained, not well trained people diving once a year. And, um, you know, maybe not the best physical condition

spk_0:   27:15
doesn't matter. I've in my career, I've took thousands of try divers under the water and I cannot count how many times, dear really, really fast on there because they're nervous about a little. Of course, you know.

spk_2:   27:31
So in our

spk_1:   27:32
tents of emulating,

spk_2:   27:33
yeah, in our team situation is easy, right? Because we have this donation system going where you know if somebody swims up to you, you've never seen before. You know, they signal you're out of gas, they're out of gas, and you can actually donate a working regulator to them from their from your mouth. They know it's working, you know. It's working. You go the necklace. Everything's fine. That's the beauty. It's not that we're training for rotten for running out of gas inside our own team because that's super rare with this level of training. What we're training for is gas not available because of a malfunction or just being a good citizen and being available to help people who need it. I think that's the cute. That's the look, so that comes back to Why do we like the Z system? Is that you talked about it earlier. Share that it's really about maintaining this level of consistency and in training and in and in diving. That's super easy.

spk_0:   28:29
I think also, that's where I think that's where a lot of the misconception comes from. Is that people that want to wanting to take the like, independent side mount and apply it to a team and expected to be the same seamless integration as a twin set diver with manifold doubles in another team. And it's not that simple. And I don't want to argue that, OK, if you are an independent side Mount Diver that takes those side mount diving to the level that you wanna, you know, explore caves and have more of a solo approach, maybe even though you're diving with another team in that expedition or whatever you're doing, your mindset is you solve your own problems and then you can argue that. Okay, you don't need to sit system, because if you're not gonna donate gas to a team because you don't have a team to donate, Castillo Castillo, you know, need a long hose.

spk_1:   29:30
No. So I mean, it seems that disease system and inside Mt. And I can only speak for my personal experience. I mean, even though it was originally invented, it created or discovered because of, you know, small spaces in maybe deep caves. But maybe it's more appropriate for the recreational type. For this, That says the easiest, that's for sure. I mean, we're not talking about and I can't speak to that. I mean, you guys are the experts I cannot speak to doing huge deep dives, long dives, double tank type of things with the side mount. I don't even know how that works. I've never done it. But certainly for the majority of us on the planet are recreational divers and just want to make a little easier.

spk_0:   30:16
The traveling recreational diver. I think this that system is is a huge asset.

spk_1:   30:21
It's huge. Say

spk_0:   30:22
it simply as light. The trouble

spk_1:   30:24
was so easy to understand.

spk_0:   30:26
Prefer to use aluminium tanks and the medium 80 cubic feet tank is the most readily available tank

spk_1:   30:33
they work, so they go and that's the way the world needs to interpret. This is not try to figure this out how to get through narrow spaces and deep diving. Try to figure out two tanks. My personal opinion. I always have a strong opinion about things, but is really wow, how powerful, too put it out there to the universe, to all those people that are kind of like. And I hate to say women because I'm such a strong, But, you know, women, they're like, Oh my God, it was so having. I just could barely get out of the water. Could hardly get in the water. And you know, just that it can be so easy and you can enjoy the wonders of the universe down below the surface of the water. I mean, it's huge to just make it easier for divers to die. Make it easier on. I just you know, I guess my strong opinion about this whole conversation is wow. This needs to be marketed to majority of us who are just recreational divers and just can make that experience of nature demonstrators.

spk_2:   31:40
I think so, Yeah, it's an awesome system, and it's fun.

spk_0:   31:44
It is not fun. And it can be like you say, Jeff. It's it's scalable, letting you use it for everything. And I mean

spk_2:   31:52
I haven't. I don't have a back plate. You know, I'm a traditional technical cave diver. I trained, you know, doubles, background, blah, blah, blah, the whole thing. I don't own a back plate. And the only wing I have is that little £20.6 kilo z system wing and you know it. That's all I dive. It doesn't matter. You know. If it's decompression, take more tanks. You need more gas, Take more tanks, need less gas, take less tanks. It's really that

spk_0:   32:22
simple. And it's I mean, I've done all kinds of dives on the set system and the people that say that is is only for what you're describing. I don't think it's true because we did the whole China expedition using these. It's all

spk_2:   32:38
of us. I was there a back amount set on that,

spk_0:   32:41
Uh, in later years, there were two or three divers,

spk_2:   32:47
but the 1st 1 that we did, it was also

spk_0:   32:49
all sidelined. Any manifold,

spk_2:   32:51
we couldn't get double. So we all had, like, what? 15 of us? Yeah, in China. And everybody had,

spk_0:   32:58
like, 40 cubic cubic feet tanks in the back of these pickup. But you could get those and they were fast.

spk_1:   33:03
Wow, that's so cool.

spk_2:   33:05
Yeah, And it was there because these things were shallow. Exactly. Right. So it so we were able to go and do all these weird, crazy dives in really bizarre situations and just go to the local dive shop and get 20 tanks and then go to another local dive shop and get 20 more tanks. Yeah, but it was because they run out. But, you know, if you asked him for doubles, they were like, No, exactly Forget it for your own. That's why

spk_0:   33:26
it works. I've also done an extreme dive in cold waters where I had to penetrate a submarine at 70 meters of water and the whole was barely big enough for me to fit in. And I'm not a big person. Would one tank s o the only system that allows me to do that? Is this that system? Yeah, because I could take all that went down in the water with six. Thanks. On my own, my person.

spk_1:   33:51
How did you do that?

spk_0:   33:52
You go down very fast thing. It's just, you know, you learn howto place them or

spk_2:   33:58
everybody looked on in various places

spk_0:   34:02
and they're everywhere. So when I get down to the hole, the hole I had a diameter 60 centimeters, two feet, two feet. Their family, that's tiny hole. So I had to take all those tanks off and keep one. Shut that out in front of me and then go down into the submarine to figure out if it was open on the inside or not. And I did that on this F system, and it's perfect because any other system would be to compromising to take more than

spk_1:   34:28
a night. That's

spk_0:   34:29
thanks off I can take, but I need to keep two to keep it a double.

spk_1:   34:32
Wow. So that's at the other extreme.

spk_0:   34:35
It is a little bit. That's

spk_2:   34:36
what's so interesting about this conversation, right? We're talking about, you know, 200 feet 60 meters in a in a tiny little hole into a wreck

spk_1:   34:45
or

spk_2:   34:46
deep date. And we're talking about beautiful recreational, you know, 2030 40 foot dives levels. They're happy bubbles and and they both. They're both served by this same system, and I think that's the coolest thing exactly. Does the coolest thing ever so awesome?

spk_0:   35:03
Let's see where it goes. I'm sure does. That system will continue to evolve from from when it was conspired in the first place. Um, but I'm sure that Bases has a has a great potential.

spk_1:   35:17
Yeah. Huge. Huge to be expanded. Much bigger than it is because nobody knows about side Mount.

spk_0:   35:23
Nothing that way.

spk_1:   35:24
No, I mean your world. They know I'm outside. Mount my world, people, you say side mount. They're like, That's true. They've never heard of. And it needs. It needs to get out there. I think it be, really. I mean, again from my perspective. Recreational diving. Wow. Introduce out to the world. You really be a huge. It potentially could be a huge boost to the whole diving industry. Really?

spk_2:   35:49
Yeah. It's going in that direction, but people haven't risen to it because no one's figured it out. Except for the Z system. It's all in this independence weird system. Awesome. Well, we should bring that to a close, right? Is it finished? I think so. That's good. I don't know. It doesn't matter. But that was fun. You know, there's 1/2 a bottle of wine going. Others have more stories. Thank you. Yeah. Cheers.