309: From 30 Demo Songs to A Finished Record That Matters - Swallow's Rose

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Episode show notes:

This is one of the most honest and valuable conversations we’ve had on the podcast.

In this episode, we sit down with Dominik from Swallow's Rose to break down the making of their latest record “The Beginning”. 

From the first rough demos all the way to release, promotion, and everything in between.

This wasn’t a typical DIY production. But also not fully done at a studio.

It was a hybrid approach:

• Self-recorded guitars and bass
• Studio-recorded drums and vocals
• Produced by the band
• Professionally mixed and mastered into a cohesive record

But the story goes much deeper than that.

We talk about:

• Why the first batch of songs got rejected (and why that was the turning point)
• Writing 30 songs to get to 11 great ones
• How experimenting (and failing) led to a better sound
• The moment the passion for music came back
• Recording vocals with intention instead of guesswork
• Why a second opinion during recording is critical
• The real amount of work that happens AFTER the record is finished
• How they pushed this release to 100k+ streams in 2 weeks
• What working with a label actually looks like in 2026

And we also go into something much more meaningful and personal than just the production and promotion of it:

This record is about overcoming real-life challenges. And how turning that into honest music can connect with people in a way nothing else can.

If you’re a self-recording artist trying to turn your demos into finished releases, this episode is packed with lessons you can apply immediately.

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If you want feedback on your songs, your arrangements, your recordings, or your mixes…

…followed by a clear plan to turn your demos into finished releases...

...plus the professional guidance to implement it all:

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We’ll listen to your music, create a custom plan for you, and help you execute it step by step.

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For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to:

theselfrecordingband.com/309

If you have any questions, feedback, topic ideas or want to suggest a guest, email us at: podcast@theselfrecordingband.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We have a very special episode today because we're doing an interview with an amazing band that just released a new record. The band's called Swallows Rose. The record's called The Beginning. And here joining us today is Dominique, the singer and I guess main songwriter of the band. We're going to get into that. He's here today, and we're going to talk all about the making of this record because this has been a hybrid approach. So it's partly self-recorded, partly recorded with professional help. And we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about the journey of the band. And also what I'm really interested in is hearing how the record, you know, came to life before we even started recording. Because I think the whole writing process, the demo phase, like everything that happened between the last record and this one is really interesting, I think, for people to hear. This is a band that I absolutely love. I've been working with them for quite a while. They are incredibly hardworking. They are really cool to work with. They put in a lot of effort, a lot of passion, their heart and soul into this. The lyrics mean a lot to them and to me as well. And so yeah, I'm beyond excited to show you that record. It's going to be in the show notes and the links below this video. And also I'm excited to introduce Dominique to you. So hello, Dominic. Thank you so much for joining us today and being on the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Hi, everybody. And thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

And as always, I'm not doing this by myself. I'm here joined by my friend and co-host, Manuel Espinosa Berenguer from Spain.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Hey buddy, how are you? Hello, guys. I'm really happy to be here one more week and also happy to have the chance to interview this amazing person here. Too much flower. Perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, uh, let's get to this. So I said this is um it's probably gonna be mainly about the the record that just came out. So at the uh um at the time of this recording, the record has been out for about two weeks. And um we're gonna talk mostly about that, I guess. And I said in the beginning it's a hybrid kind of approach. This means that um I've worked together with the band on this partly. So I recorded the drums and I recorded vocals with Dominique, and then, or I didn't play the drums, I was engineering them, of course, and then engineered the vocals, and then the band did bass and guitars themselves, and then um I mixed and mastered it all at the end. And this that this is how it happened. And uh, even before we started, there was like a long sort of demo phase, and Dominique did a lot of like experiments and some deep thinking, and there was some point, one point in the process where I made him question everything for a short moment. Everything. So uh yeah, let's talk about that. Uh, I don't know where what the best way to start with this is, but uh maybe explain to us, Dominique, what the record means to you and like how long like when did the whole project start? Let's start there. Like, how long ago was it that you were started to work on this project?

SPEAKER_04 2:46

It all started back in 2023, I guess. So it was one year after our Damnfall, uh our album Downfall. And you know, I needed I needed some kind of break from uh songwriting, but when I first uh took that guitar, it felt pretty good. And I wrote about three or four songs, which I sent to you, yeah, and um I mean my expectation was the feedback is a bit just like it was always before. So hey, great songs, let's record them or something like that, let's VP or something like that. But no, it wasn't. But you know, and and somehow, um in some kind of way, this was the perfect start for the album because none of these first songs are on the album, and I as you already mentioned, I really questioned everything about the songwriting process uh I found myself in. But I knew that you also wanted to bring out the best in me. So um I really sat down and and uh tried some different things. I mean, my my testing music also some kind of changed over the last few years, much more into hardcore music and on the other side into pop punk, but um not anywhere in this 90s skate punk, some kind of bubble. And so uh somehow I think I tried to take these two things the pop punk side and the hardcore side and bring them all together in a few songs, and it really started out to make sense for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yeah, yeah, I remember it. I it was like I I obviously liked the songs, it was not it was not at all that they were bad, but I think my my feedback was something like you know, well, it those are Swallows Rose songs, so they're great, and but you know, it's but it's also kind of what I expected and kind of the same, and maybe we should try something new, sort of and it was something like that, yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Yeah, you you told me that you liked the songs, and and uh that you think they are good, but you think there is more, yeah, and turned out you're right.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah, and then the interesting thing is I think right after that you didn't straight end up um where you are where you ended up like eventually, like I think you first experimented a bit and took it a bit uh quote unquote too far, or you like um experimented a lot and ended up not liking it anymore. Is that like that's how I remember it? Where you you yeah, uh tell tell us about what happened next because I I think we you explored a couple of different things and didn't really like where this was going in the beginning. Uh not only in the beginning, but the end.

SPEAKER_04 5:35

So the first song on the new record is uh also the first song that um I wrote for the record. So it was not only at the beginning of the process, but you know, and in some days I tried really much with um some synthesizer stuff and something like that, bring a few effects in it, and it didn't feel that good sometimes, so it wasn't Swallows Rose anymore. I mean it's the right approach to to take the Swallows Rose Swallows Rose songs and add a few other elements, a few other how should I say? Um not only punk rock, you know, just get in a little bit hardcore, get in a little bit of the pop punk, maybe a little bit pop, a little bit rap on some uh tracks. And but it now it still feels like Swellers Rose songs. Um but on some demos I remember it didn't feel like that anymore. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Yeah, and that's such an interesting thing to me, and such an important part of the process to, you know, um yeah, to explore these extremes, these limits, and um and see what comes out of the process. And eventually, I think there was a little bit of silence for a while because you were just you know thinking about what to do and and where to go with this. And then at some point it clicked, and you came back with a really, really cool mix between all the things that we talked about. And I remember I was going to, I think this was fall 2024, where I was uh yeah, where that I was driving to Hamburg with uh Thomas and I were driving to Hamburg to Studio Scene, the the studio event that we were invited to, where we met Manel also in person. And on this drive up there, we listened to the demos that you sent us and we listened together and we made notes about like what we liked and didn't like, but both of us were like absolutely stoked and excited and surprised also by what we heard. And the cool thing was that there was new, there were new elements in there, like heavy breakdowns and like some other things that you just mentioned, but you still had your kind of signature anthem choruses, for example, that I always loved, like the you know, the sing-alongs, the the nice melodies, and that that kind of stuff was still there. And it was not cheesy, there was not like any kind of really weird over the top sounding synthesizer parts. It was still a punk rock record, it was still Swallows Rose, but there were new exciting things in there that I didn't expect. And so I I remember hearing those demos and was like, yeah, that that's that's exactly what I meant. So I don't know. Uh, how did you how did you land there? Was it listening to a lot of references, or was it like how did you end up with the songs?

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Actually, when I when I'm thinking about maybe uh because um was a time I really listened a lot to Combat Kids, Stick to Your Guns, Bear Tooth, um, all these yeah, hardcore bands, metalcore bands, whatever you like to call it. Yeah, um, and maybe yeah, it maybe it was, but you know, bringing all these elements into these uh Swallows Rose songs really brought back the the passion for writing music because uh when I I remember when I when I listened to the demos uh I recorded, I was like, yeah, this this feels good. This this is exactly where I want to be with the new record. And so in some kind of way, after all this work, it it really brought back uh the passion for writing music, and and it it wasn't work anymore to sit down about five, six hours writing songs. It was just for the fun, for the love of the game, if you want to call it like that. Yeah, sure. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Oh, awesome. That's that's good to hear. This is actually something that those are exactly the things I wanted to hear this in this episode as well, because I think people need to hear that, because this is something that we see a lot and we hear a lot with from the artists that we work with, also in our coaching, for example, where once you know, at some point making a record, whether you do it yourself or not, it it becomes work at some point. There's always work involved, a lot of work, actually, if you do it right, and not just making the record, everything that comes after it, and you know you know it better than anyone at the moment. Like it's a lot of work. And it's easy to forget sometimes why you started doing it in the first place. And it it used to be a passion thing on the side, and you got excited about it every single time. And at some point it just gets yeah, it just becomes work. And I don't know, it's like something that a lot of artists I think struggle with. And I I think that's just part of of the game, and you just gotta find a way to bring like some sometimes we just gotta push through, yes, but more importantly, I think we have to find ways to find the joy again in all of this and and and figure out why we did it in the first place, because otherwise you'll lose the passion for what you've once had so much. And yeah, and I don't I'm I don't know, is there any specific thing you did to to find that kind of passion and joy again in that process? Did you take a break intentionally or did it like No Not a specific thing?

SPEAKER_04 10:47

Uh I really nah I don't think so. I really think it was about uh hearing the the finished demos. Um you know I it wasn't just uh 11 songs, uh I think I wrote about 30 songs or something like that for the record. Some of them already have some vocals on it, some are just instrumentals, but also hearing the finished instrumentals or hearing the other songs that didn't make it to the uh on the album. It was just like I feel scared. So and this was the one thing I really think that uh kept the motivation up there.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So yeah. Oh, that's that's great to hear. And uh yeah, you you gotta push through for a certain amount of time until something clicks, and then you're gonna like, oh yeah, that's I remember now, that is what I wanted, and then then it comes back. It's like like authors when they write books, they light a lot of a lot of crappy pages, you know, questioning everything, but at some point it all comes together and then you can see the whole thing again. And it's just part of creating art, I guess. You gotta show up and do a bunch of shitty things until something great shows up eventually. And also the fact that you've written 30 songs or something, and not just the ones that are on the record, is important for people to realize that's what many great bands actually do. Um, because not everything you write is gonna be the best thing ever. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:07

I mean, we we we took about I guess 14 songs of these 30 songs into uh band rehearsal, and we sat down and uh talked to each other which of these 14 songs will go on the album. So we yeah, we decided to put 11 on it because three of them we we said it's not our best work, so let's just do 11, but we're really happy about the 11 and cool.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Awesome. Manela, I saw you wanted to ask a question just before I asked the last one, so go ahead, please.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah, yeah. So my question is uh more about the psychological aspect of all of this, because I guess when Benedict told you you know about his opinion on the first four songs, uh you probably got hit with a wave of negativity and all that. So it's like what I what I typically do. I hit people with waves of negativity.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

I love that. Some people have weird hobbies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

So what what was your approach to overcome that that feelings, those feelings?

SPEAKER_04 13:26

I really think he he did exactly what he needed to do because um his words they got me into this situation that I really wanted to show him what I am capable of doing. So um and first of all, I really thought I mean I was really happy about the songs, and and uh as you already mentioned, um it was a wave um crashing down, and but for me it was I think about a few minutes later, I thought about it and it really pushed me in some kind of way. So um I really would recommend people to show their songs to other people who are not involved in the band, so to have a second opinion or a third opinion on demos because I I really think that other people are are looking different on it than uh your band does. In the first moment, everything's cool that you're doing as a band. I mean, but having a second or a third opinion from someone who's not involved in any rehearsals or something like that is really important, and this was the whole point of this.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

So so basically, your approach is that you did not let that wave drown you, but you used that to like push harder, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:52

Yeah, right. Yeah, for me it was a motivation.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yeah, that's great to hear. And this is a great segue into what I also wanted to talk about next or ask about next, is like it's kind of a theme. There's even on the last record, there was even a sample um from the from the Rocky movie, I think. About this is like, you know, it's not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard uh you can get hit and keep moving forward. So this is a theme that has been top of mind for me on every like on the last record in this one as well. And you without going into much too much personal detail in all of that, but this this whole overcoming challenges, pushing through, standing up again, doing something again, like this is a very important topic to you, and you talk about that a lot in your lyrics. You um you are a fighter and some and sometimes are forced to be one as well. And so um, can you talk to us about what the record means to you and and what overcoming challenges also means to you and how you process that on the record?

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Oh, uh just a lot. I mean, uh over the last four years, um so much happened, and you know, um I'm very open talking about all this uh stuff that's going on in in life, uh, because I uh got the the diagnosis that I have multiple sclerosis, and um this whole album is about um overcoming all these challenges and dealing with it, and uh but also seeing the good sides uh talking about it, you know. Um I've got so much uh from other people and so much support, and um I really wanted to talk about this as well on the record. So it's a very personal record uh on the lyric side. And yeah, for me it's just it's just um how can I say that? I look back uh at these last four years and what we have done together and what we still can do together, so yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's amazing, and it's like not only that you talk about it on the record, like you said, you're very open about it, you talk about it on social media, you made reels on those topics, and uh I saw the reactions and how much people appreciate the you know that because everyone is going through their own thing, and it there's you know, some is worse, some is not as bad, but it's not about comparing that. It's like everyone has their own, you know, things that they're they have to deal with, and it just people just feel seen and heard and understood, and they appreciate that, and it's just powerful. And if you have a band, even with a you know, it doesn't really matter how big the audience is, you have quite a quite a big big of an audience, but it doesn't really matter if you have some sort of audience, if you can do anything to inspire people to make your music more than just the music, basically, it's uh it's a really great opportunity to just you know make some change in the world, and you do that in a very, very, very cool way. And um also when I saw the reviews of the new record, people not only talked about the songs and the sound and whatever, they also talked about that, like the things that you were processing on those in those songs. They always mention that so I think really people notice, and I think it makes it a very meaningful record as well, and also goes to show that punk rock or hardcore does not always have to be political all the time, whatever it can be super personal and have just as much of an impact, maybe even more so, because it hits people personally directly.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

It's the one thing uh the reason why I fell in love with it first time. Oh so it was it was not um not because of uh political statements. I mean, they are really important in this kind of music and so on, but the reason I fell in love with Pong Krook was the bands like Rise Against and and um Psalm 41, so we're always quite personal in their songs, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah, so uh can you have there been any particular songs or records that got you through those hard times the last couple of years, despite writing your own, like other than just writing your own? Is there anything that was important to you that you listened to?

SPEAKER_04 19:11

I really think that if there's one record that will always uh be there in my life, it's Rise Against the Sufferer and the Witness. I really think it was the first time I've ever heard music like that. Um back when I was about 12 or 13 years old. I I remember it really the first time I ever heard the album. And this album will always be there. Uh it doesn't matter what happens. Um and I'm not I'm not some kind of guy who's sticking to albums but to bands. I I really need to say so because um when I think about all these songs from uh story of the year, for an example, or as I already mentioned, Bear Tooth in the last few years for me, one of the best bands uh out there. So it's not it's not punk rook, but you know, so something's they have something. I I don't know. And yeah, I really like it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Okay, cool. Was it hard for you to talk about personal topics like that at the beginning? Like I don't know, showing the lyrics to your bandmates or just the thought of like making that public? Was that something that scared you in any way, shape, or form?

SPEAKER_04 20:26

On the album Downfall, yeah. So um there was one song on it, so it's our second album Downfall, and the song's called Souls Alone. It was the first time I really uh opened myself with all these uh problems, and but as I as I already said, and as you already mentioned it, I always talk about it on stage as well, and I uh talk about it with the audience and so on, and they gave back so much love. Now it it really wasn't hard to do that because I I know there are so many people out dealing with the same problems, having the same kind of issues, and yeah, I I really figured out it's it's not a problem to do that, and so it just felt right to recur such a personal level.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Okay, cool. Yeah, so yeah, I guess that helped that it you already had the practice from the last record, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. I remember those vocal sessions, they were always like special to me because like that that's what the part of the record that I was there, especially like on the the last one, I was there all the time. This one I was there for vocals and drums, and it was so important to me to capture those those lyrics and what's in there, like the right way, like the the emotion in it. And I remember that when you came in for those vocal sessions, you were a little sick, like, or your your voice was a little, you know, not not at the at your best in a way. And I was constantly worried like this is so important. Like, we have to get the best possible takes. Like, what if the voice doesn't last? What if you can't? Hit the high notes. What if we can't capture the emotion? Whatever. And you were always like, Well, I know I can do it, just you know, stay calm. I know I I can do it. We still we we can get it done. And I trusted you, of course, but also I was so worried because it's so important that the vocals are right, but you absolutely killed it. And even and I even think, listening back now, that some of the parts got even better because of that, because there's an extra sort of fragile element in there, an emotional element that maybe wouldn't have been there otherwise. Maybe, maybe do it. I don't know. It's broke sometimes, yeah, but in a good way. And I just I uh I it turned out so well, but I also remember how nervous I was because I was like, We I don't care if we have to reschedule it, do another day for free or whatever, but like it what matters is that it comes across the right way, yeah. But it did, and you had a good, you you know, good self-awareness, and you know ex you knew exactly what you were capable of. Um, so that worked out great. Also, you did a lot of like I think vocal training in between the last record and this one, right? I like you definitely made progress, and you that partly came from touring maybe as well, but it sounded like, and we even talked about it, I think, that like you intentionally improved your vocal technique a lot.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

Yes, not with a coach, but um I searched YouTube back and forth. So, and there's so many good tutorials, there's so many helpful creators on YouTube who are doing it for free, showing you some techniques um how you can improve singing and all also that your voice lasts longer. This is one big point for me, and I really think that was so important for the record to do that because otherwise, when when I think back, uh I mean how long did we want session? Uh about seven hours, six hours with breaks for sure, but yeah, without the tutorials, without all the help from the YouTube creators and so on, never ever.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I hear you, and it's always a pretty stressful situation to record vocals as well. Like you're under pressure all the time, all eyes on you, you gotta perform for hours on end, the voice gotta last. There's all these, yeah. Uh it's it's definitely not easy to do that. Um, so so yeah, um, it's a good thing that you at least know that technically everything's fine because you know what you're doing, and yeah, yeah, totally get it.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

I'm I'm curious, Dominic, like what things did you change like specifically?

SPEAKER_04 24:24

Uh uh I think the most important thing is um breathing, breathing uh with the belly, not with the shoulders, not with the chest. Um so I really did a lot of breathing techniques and the maybe that the most important thing, warm up. So uh it's the one thing I really think that I was I was lacking before. I never warmed up my voice before I got into singing. So nowadays I really when we play our show, and even if it's just about uh 30, 35, 40 minutes set, I warm up about 15 minutes or 20 minutes. And there's one thing I really can recommend, it's called laxboxes uh something to to keep the vocal cords healthy and it's just a mixture of these three things, I guess. So for me it was really about the breathing and warming up your voice properly.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah, for listeners just in case you don't know what lax box is, it's this sort of tube, right? Like short tube that you put inside a bottle with water. Yeah, right. And you can do like a lot of uh, you know, exercises in there, and that helps because it makes you like it that water makes a resistance to your uh air, so it makes you push harder in a way that when you are singing for real, you can do it easier, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

I remember you doing that. You did that on the last record as well already, I think. But um, yeah, but this is something that you stuck with because it obviously worked. Yeah. It did. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and the breathing and everything, I definitely noticed in the sessions that it got a lot better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

Game changer for me, really.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah, not very cool to hear. All right. Let's stay with uh it's like out of order a little bit, but still, since we were on this topic already, uh, when it comes to vocal recording, why was it important to you? So I want to start start differently. So it makes sense technically that if you have a limited setup at home and limited experience, that you wouldn't record your own drums because it's very complex to do that, and you need the room and the and the microphones and all that, and you can mess up a lot of things. So that makes sense. But technically, you could have recorded vocals yourself because it's really just the microphone and an interface, and you, you know, and with a little bit of help, you could do it yourself, technically. What why do you think it's a good idea to record vocals with someone else in the room? Uh, because this is something a lot of bands do, and I think it's a really good idea, even if you're self-recording. But I want to hear your thoughts. Like, what is it, what makes a difference for you as the performer if you have don't have to do it yourself?

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Just because uh I need a second opinion. I need I need the opinion of someone who's listening to the song is not the 100th time now. So and I I need someone who's telling me now that wasn't it. You know, when when you're singing and you're performing, you're in your head, you're just uh how can I say that? You want to do things right, so but when you're performing, I don't think you have the the ears to hear some sort of things, and I really need a second opinion on some things, and it's just as simple as it gets. And it's just from you the second opinion, it's just from you, the second person who's telling me uh now do it different. Um I wasn't quite there. There I was missing some emotions on that uh trap because it was take number 1000. Um and I really think this you know, vocals are maybe I don't want to say demos, but one of the most important things on the record when when you do music like redo Absolutely Um it needs to be perfect in some kind of way. So take your time and take someone with you, or even two persons. I mean uh our friend Benedict, the second Benedict, he was there as well, and and he gave me some tips, and uh he is the guy I did uh all the arrangements, the vocal arrangements with. And so having three guys uh me and the two Benedicts working on the vocals is another game changer. So you have two or three opinions on takes, you have uh opinions on the emotions on the take. Was the pitch right? I I I can say when I'm singing, so to a hundred percent. Okay, I can tell a little bit, but not a hundred percent. Um yes, uh I mean it's always better to have uh a few more ears hearing this.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. And and then, like you said, the the guidance and you know, throughout the process and everything, yeah, it's I it it totally makes a difference. And also just not having to handle the recording, like even just being in the flow of things, not you know, if you do it yourself, you have to interrupt your own flow all the time. You have to make sure that you have to make sure that all the technical stuff works, but you really don't want to think about it while you're recording. This is like one of the biggest challenges of self-recording artists, and it can be done, but it's definitely an advantage to have someone there, and even if you do it yourself, maybe have a bandmate in the room, someone who is operating the computer and hits record and stop, and someone who is there to hear it with a different perspective. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

Just imagine you're having a track ready and you listen to it, and you really think, oh no. I mean, there are there are some some parts I really need to record again, and they're doing it over and over and over again because you're you're always performing and not listening to it. So I mean it's in some kind of way, maybe also a waste of time um to do it just on your own because you you need to perform, then to listen to it. Performing again, listen to it, performing again, listen to it, going back and forth. So it's it's so much more than just having a few mirrors to listen to it, uh, I think.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. How did you do it when you recorded, for example, the um there was one acoustic track that you did yourself, and you know, things like that. Like that was uh Benedict probably there, like the other Benedict. It's like not me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

And he he played the acoustic guitar.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

And he played the acoustic guitar, yeah, yeah. And when you did vocals, he was there, right? I guess. Uh yes, he was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's how you did it there. Yeah.

unknown 31:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

He's a much uh better guitar player than I am, so letting him doing it just makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

How much involved was the rest of the band or Benedict um in the whole writing um and arrangement process? Like, because I said in the beginning you're the main songwriter, which is probably true, but at which point in the demo process do you bring in the rest of the band? Like, when do you you know come up with the final drum patterns and like what the other guitar is doing and the bass lines and all those things? And and do the others have a say in also your vocal lines or what you do on the uh on the with the guitar or whatever when you're writing? Like tell us about that process. Like, how much do you do on your own and when do you bring in the rest of the band?

SPEAKER_04 31:48

So all the uh guitar tricks are the ones I already wrote for the demos. So the as in they haven't changed, no. I just thought about no, they haven't changed. Um as in, I'm not a bass player, I'm not a drummer, so I programmed the drums first, and um for sure I have a bass guitar here just playing the chords uh to just for having some kind of bass in the tracks. And if there was a bass guitar riff, it was the one that that I um put together. But at the end, I send them all the demos, and uh Michael, our drummer, he he does everything with with notes, so he wrote the notes for the for the tracks and he sent it to me, and we did a nidy file, and uh again I put it into um cube base to have the program drums, but it was the the notes he were playing then live in the studio, and Corby he wrote the bass lines, so he knew the chords doesn't don't need to know much more, so he doesn't need much more, and um yeah, yeah, I mean you know him, you can you can deal with it. That's why I'm laughing.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

It's like it's so much more funny when you know him. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

Um and about the vocals, really much of the vocals were done by Benedict and me. So um I mean I I did the main vocals, which makes sense, but the arrangements or the harmonies uh were done by Benedict and me together. And by you for sure in the studio. So we figured out some kind of better ways in the studio. That's the advantage of having a a co-producer, whatever you want to call it, or an engineer in the studio helping you recording vocals. So it's the third person who's telling you, ah, I have a bad idea. Uh I remember the the harmonies in Leave a Light On. You heard it the first time? And it told me, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, we need to do some other harmonies in the in the in the chorus, and it was perfect. I mean, yeah. So that's the reason why it's for me, it's so important to have two or three guys around me having a second opinion on it.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Love it, love to hear it. Yep. Okay, uh, one thing you just casually mentioned there, which is not really the norm for most bands that I work with, but I think it's worth repeating again, is that uh Michael, your drummer, he plays like he writes down his drum parts basically, and he has the notes there when he plays drums in the studio, and he just you know looks at those and plays. And it's like and he he plays it really, really well. And he but like I he I think he's the only punk rock drummer ever that I had, you know, that I saw in the studio reading from the the notation, like the actual drum notes while he's playing in the studio without any ghost track or something like this.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Um, yeah, that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

He doesn't even hear the music, he doesn't even hear the music, it's just the click, his notes, and he plays right. Yeah, yeah. Whoa.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Yeah. We don't know what happened to him. Uh he is. And I mean, if it works out for him, why not?

SPEAKER_01 35:03

So yeah, I I had like I was in the room with the when we recorded drums, and I had to have I asked for like scratched guitar tracks and stuff just for myself, not for for Michael, but I I had to hear the songs while we were recording because I needed to hear what we're actually doing and whether or not the parts are serving the song and if it feels great, because without context, it's like impossible for me to do that. So I was sitting there with my headphones on, listening to the guitars while Michael was playing, and you know, he just played as if the song was there. He just he can't just do it without the music, he just writes everything down, plays it exactly as is. He and the fascinating thing is I mean, it makes sense he can play it if he writes it down, but the thing is, if I told him, you know, let's go to the chorus again, or this or that part, and like let's do this or that, he immediately knew what I was talking about. Like he can navigate the songs and jump to certain parts without hearing any of them. You know, it's like, yeah, it's wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

He's the musician in the band.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Let's uh yeah, let's give it like that. Yeah. No, but he he's done a great job. He's done a really, really great job. And also the drum recording itself was so much fun. We there was a really cool, um, a really cool approach there. We put together this hybrid kit of different things, we tried different symbols. I think it was also the first time ever uh that I made a record where every single symbol we used on the kit was a different brand. Usually, you know, things match and are the same kind of similar. And yes, you swap out a hi-hat or something at some point, but what we ended up with, we had a selection of symbols. What we ended up with was like, yeah, hi-hats, ride, two crashes, and uh China, I think. And all every single symbol was a completely different brand, but it worked out well together. And so that was just a fun, a fun process. And I I think it was my shells from like now, it's Thomas's kit, but I think the main kit was from Thomas, yeah. And then it was Michael Snare, and then some symbols from God knows who like all he brought some symbols with him. So yeah, so that was really, really cool. We had a good selection of mics, did a couple of shootouts there. I rented all kinds of things together. I had some analog stuff, um, a nice little analog desk and then like racks of upwork here. Like we documented the whole thing, anyways. It's on YouTube. The link will be in the show notes and below this video. If you want to check it out, we documented the whole drum recording process. And uh by the way, just uh so you know, when you listen to right when you watch that video, uh I think I even say it in the video, but like we're talking to each other in Bavarian. So even if you're from Germany, you're gonna have a hard time understanding anything. But I I comment on it in English, so you still will be able to make sense of it. But yeah, that was the drum uh recording session. And and I think this whole hybrid approach makes so much sense because drums are by far the hardest thing to do yourself if you want to have real drums. And even programming is not that easy if you want to do it in a convincing way. But you wanted we we said we wanted real drums. Um, we talked about a clear like vision that we had for them, like really, really punchy, but you know, and like a couple of things that were important to us. And we didn't want to do it overly polished, so obviously programmed or just really sample heavy was also not something we wanted. It should be kind of wild, but still big and punchy, and all these things. And so obviously, that's hard to do yourself. So it makes so much sense to start with the drums like that. You can then do guitars and bass yourself. It I'm not saying that's easy, but that's way easier technically than to do drums, and then vocals for the reasons we already mentioned went on again in the studio. Um let's talk about the guitars and bass real quick, because those that's what that was things you did yourself. Um, what I remember was we talked a little bit about some tones that you used to to monitor yourself and to play through, basically. And then I remember I wasn't involved just remotely, we just kept in touch, but I remember there was like also a period of frustration there for many different reasons. So maybe just walk us through that kind of process, uh, what you did, how it went. Uh, I don't think I know everything. I just know that there was like, yeah, it was not always fun.

SPEAKER_04 39:02

No, but but as you already mentioned um a few minutes ago, writing an album, uh recording an album is always some kind of work as well. So, and you know, sometimes things don't go to plan when you record all the tracks and and and the guitar tracks as well. So I mean, pretty much it was because you need to be so clear in the recording, you need to be so uh how can I say that? I mean I'm not a perfectionist in any kind of way, but when it comes to music, I really think I am when when it comes to recording things, so it must be polished at least and sitting on one or two tracks for about three or four hours can be really, really challenging. Not only for your mind, but for the friendship. But yeah, no, but in the end, I mean it it turned out to be uh everything's uh turned out to be to be great. So we did it all together. Um this is one thing I really wanted to mention. Yeah, there's not just a one-man project or something like that. We were all in this together. We we everybody recorded his his parts and everybody brought his uh his uh things into this album. And no, it it it also was fun. It's not just word, but you know you're you're working on it with your friends. So at the end of the day, it's a hard working time with a friend. Let's let's keep it like that. Yeah, but for sure it's challenging. I mean you want it to be perfect in the end. Yeah, you you put so much effort in it, you put also money in it, of course. In the end, you just want it to be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

So I have a question for you guys. Uh in terms of you know, both for the drums and guitars and bass, in terms of like the you know, the preparation of the recording, like what you said also, Benedict, that you used many different symbols. How do you guys go about that like that testing period? Or do you have any sort of procedure so that you don't get drawn into hours and hours of checking different M's and symbols, or like how do you go about that?

SPEAKER_04 41:34

To be honest, our testing period was one day with Benedict in the studio. And he told us, no, that symbol, no, that's not good. Yeah, that symbol is good. So he was the one. Um, he and he and uh our drummer uh Michael, I I think you two just selected the symbols, selected the tones for for the drums. And also when it comes to the guitars, it was Benedict, so the other Benedict and me um doing the tones for the guitars, and Corby he did his own bass guitar tone. So it was a mixture of mixture of everybody in in the end, yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

How how did you come up with your guitar tones though? That was I think we talked about it briefly, but I didn't do that much there. Like we talked about you know the tone hub plugin, I think was what you used, and like a little bit back and forth there. I I gave some recommendations maybe, but but it was mainly you picking, you know, you know, certain presets and amps and whatever. Like, so so how did you go about that? Like, what was the vision and and how did you end up using what you ended up using?

SPEAKER_04 42:34

Well, uh I mean the vision was about a really pretty a pretty thick tone for the rhythm guitar, so we wanted to be yeah, much more in the hardcore style, um some kind of that way. So it was just drying. Um we tried we really tried about 200 packs uh tone hub or something like that. And um, I mean you can select your favorites, so we put in a few favorites and then we selected the tone for the rhythm guitar, and we did the the same process for the leak guitar, and we ended up, I think we were using mostly the 5150 uh for the rhythm guitars. I I really think it was the expansion pack by Brian Hood. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 43:20

If I remember correctly, yes. I thought it was Andrew Wade for some reason, but maybe Andrew Wade was the bass toner. Uh okay, okay. Oh, my dude, my dude Brian Hood. Shout out to Brian if you see this. So didn't even know.

SPEAKER_04 43:32

I really think it was the Brian Hood pack for the guitar tones, also the lead guitar. But the lead guitar was a Mesa Bookie tool, I think. But the bass tone, I can't remember. Was it Andrew Wade or or some someone different? Uh I really don't remember. But I was just trying all these different packs, searching for one that um we think it suits best for the album and that's not much more to it.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

So then how much time uh did it take the testing period versus the recording period?

SPEAKER_04 44:09

So the testing period for guitars was pretty long. Um I really think we we spent four or five days each day about three or four hours just testing some tones. We wanted it to sound perfect for us. I mean we we also have some kind some some different tones on it. So there's some clean guitar tones on it, there are some with effects, um and so we spent pretty much time doing this, but not as long as recording. I I think recording was uh I can really say because we we did a lot of it after our uh nine to five jobs during the week. So I remember really coming home from work at about five or six pm and playing guitar with with the other three guys in our rehearsal room for about four or five hours each day for about three or four weeks, something like that. So uh but I I really can't tell you how much I I think it really was about twenty-one days, yeah, but not full days. So they always were about four to five hours.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

So what would you would could you say it maybe the testing was twenty percent and the actual recording was eighty percent or something like that, or thirty-seventy?

SPEAKER_04 45:39

Wow, pretty hard to say. I I really think it was about fifteen percent testing and eighty-five percent recording. Okay, keep it like that, yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yeah, so testing is very important.

SPEAKER_04 45:50

It is important. You want to have the racky chat on for your album. I mean in the end, uh you want it to sound just as you have imagined it a few months before. Yeah. So take your time, test the amps. It's important.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah, and and the thing is, it I think I think I'm not 100% sure anymore, but I I'm I'm pretty sure. I think that I re-amped at least a couple parts or like uh blended in you know different amps with what you sent me, but that doesn't really matter because it's still absolutely worth the testing. Because if you have a a sound that you like when you play through it, you play differently, you interact with the amp in a different way. So that is one thing. It's it has to excite you while you're playing. You you do the palm mutes and everything differently. There's a different kind of sustain, the amount of gain matters a lot. So even if it's just a placeholder tone, it matters when it comes to performances. And the other thing was yours that you picked really worked well the way they were. So I didn't even replace them on the on the record. I might have blended in some other stuff. But the other thing is even if you send it to someone for mixing and they re-amp it, then you have a really great reference tone. And so in this case, I knew that whether I end up using your tones or not, I know exactly what you want. And maybe if I have a quote unquote better way to get the same tone, but with whatever makes it make it sit better in the mix or something, I I knew exactly what to do and what to reach for. And if a band just picks, you know, just half-asses this and just picks something that kind of works, then I have to come up with something from scratch, and that might not necessarily be your vision. So in your case, what you sent me absolutely worked, and even if I ended up replacing it, I would have known exactly what to go with. And so this is it it's absolutely worth doing that, and you just also play differently.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

And on the other hand, we wanted to use the the sounds live, so yeah, we we just didn't want it to sound to have them on the album, but now when we're when we are playing live shows, we wanted to have the same sounds. I mean it just makes sense in some kind of way, but that was the main reason to to spend so much time for testing.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

So, another question when you decided on uh rhythm guitar sound, did you use the same uh like rhythm guitar sound for every single track, or it was different in every song?

SPEAKER_04 48:12

Uh not in every song. We use pretty much of the rhythm guitar sounds uh for almost every song. Uh just a few parts are different, uh but just less gain or having an un delay on it or something like that. Depends on the part, like I said. But the rhythm guitar tone is pretty much on the whole album. And for the lead guitars, we really played around a little bit. So same as the rhythm guitars. I mean, for for most of the parts it worked, but we we really messed around with with uh having effects on it and delays, reverbs. Uh I can't remember everything we did, but also with the gain a lot and with the overall guitar tone. So I really think we had about four or five different guitar tones just for the lead parts, and then uh we played around with the effect. Depending just depends on the song. I mean there there are songs on it um that are much more in the let's say pop-pong kind of way. So we had less game, we had a little bit more reverb stuff, delay stuff, something like that. There and there are songs on it that are more on the hardcore sorry, and we uh put way more gain on it, we put yeah, just just to suit the song, always what what works best for the song we we put on it. We didn't have a preference uh for the Hubble album but for the songs. So maybe this makes it a little bit clearer.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Yeah, I think it's also interesting. I didn't even remember that, but you you mentioned for the rhythm tones, it was mainly a 5150. It's interesting because we also used that one on the last record, just the real 5150 in that case. It just seems to be uh, I mean, it's not really surprising because for modern heavy music it is one of the best amps that you can have and record with. For the last one, we used the original block letter 5150, and in this case it was uh some some uh plug-in. But um, and I might I even re-amped through the real one again, I think on the last one. But anyway, um also interesting because it's sometimes, you know, or oftentimes actually, and if I talk to a lot of my peers and I talk to people making other records, oftentimes it's the few tried and true things that just work. You know, you don't necessarily have to reinvent the wheel. And if you look at all those patches in some of the plugins, you'll find the same kind of amps everywhere. It's it's oftentimes Mesa Boogies, it's often 5150s, it's Marshall Chase 800s. It's like the same things. It's often Mesa cabs, you know, and yes, there's always like exotic whatever things, but for the most part, um, if you look at what your favorite bands are doing, you'll find some tried and true stuff that just works. And then you can still make it unique and tweak it so that it's yours. But um, yeah, it doesn't have to be that overwhelming. You don't necessarily have to try every single amp in the world. It's yeah, that's just an interesting thing as well. Yeah, cool. So let's talk a little bit about the what happened after the record was done, because it doesn't stop there. I mentioned the beginning, you're one of the most like hardest working, sort of independent, smaller, quote unquote smaller bands that I know. I mean, you're not you have, like I said, a pretty decent audience, and you got signed to a really cool label now as well, and all that, but you still have full-time jobs. It's not that this is your main thing you do all the time. So just so people get an idea of what I'm talking about, we talked about all the work that went into making the record. That's one thing, the writing of the record, all those things. But then the work doesn't stop, right? It's like it's so especially if you're ambitious and you have goals, and you in your case, you teamed up with Uncle M, which is one of the more you know significant indie labels in in Germany and in Europe. It's uh it's a very cool um, yeah, indie label for punk and alternative music. And they ended up, you know, making a deal with you on the record. They um released the record, and this comes with a lot of responsibilities and tasks and to-do lists. So a lot of tell us a little bit about that. Uh, what what does it take, you know, to get I mean, you have more than 100,000 streams. I don't know how many exactly in the first two weeks of releasing the record. Um, and you've done 20,000, you've gone up to pretty like very close to 20,000 monthly listeners shortly after releasing the record. Um, you've had you were on you've been on rock rotation, like big playlists, and you've been on a couple of podcasts, including this one, and you do a couple of things. How how do you get there? Like, what did it take in your case to get there? And yeah, t tell us about the work that went in after the record was was mastered.

SPEAKER_04 52:55

So we we made a lot of players, and but you know, we said from from from the beginning that we wanted to try something different. I mean the first two albums were released on Spam Records, and we really want to thank them for everything they have done for us. They they they've done so much for us, really. But we also thought, well, the music's kind of different, let's try something different in and uh putting it out as well. And when we received the message that uh Uncle M is going to do it and uh wanted to work with us, it was really big for us. But we also knew the real work begins because uh and I know Mirko who is the the head of Uncle M Records um for a few years now, and he he's a great guy, but he demands a lot from his band, but for exchange he also gives a lot, and and this is what what what makes him so special, I think. So there was a lot of communication going on. I really I really think that I I can't count all the messages we have wrote and and all the calls we've had. But at the end, as you already mentioned it, I mean we are now in a in a situation we never thought that we would be. So we have about 130,000 streams on the album after two weeks. We ended up on a zombie playlist, we uh and it was all because he he guided us uh on that way, and he told us what was right to do, what's not. Um so cutting videos became one of my main jobs in this life. I don't know how many reels I have I have um already made. So having a lot of content is maybe the number one rule after recording an album, and also putting together some other stuff and having some specials. Um I mean it's a lot of networking with other brands, with other brands as well. So with creators, with fan scenes, magazines, podcasts. Um it's a lot of writing, a lot of content creation, and a lot of communication. I think this that's really says everything about this situation.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

Yeah, yeah, and again, you had you you having full-time jobs and just hearing from a distance like all the things you did and seeing the the result of that, you the reels you've been posting, the stuff you've been doing. I was often thinking, like, man, after you know, a nine to five sitting down for hours pretty much every single day doing all these things, this is like a second, a second job, really, right? That you have there. It's uh like yeah, yeah, um, absolutely fascinating. And I I I know that not many people are willing, not many bands are willing to do this. And the the disconnect is, and this is why I like uh this is one of the reasons why I love you guys so much. It's I also obviously it's personally, but that one of the reasons why I love this band so much is for me so many people, there's this disconnect between what they want and what they're willing to put put into it. So they would tell me the exact same goals, they want the same things, and then when I tell you, well, I know a couple bands who do this, and here's what those people typically do, then immediately it's like, well, I um I can never do this, so no. But they still want the same thing. And you guys made a decision. Well, we want this, so we do it. And if you had decided that we you don't didn't want to do it, then you would have known that obviously there's you can expect less, you know. And that's just what I what I like about it. It's like it's this alignment of what do we want to accomplish? How much time do we have? What are we willing to do for it? And I guess it was not an easy decision for you as well, because when you had that opportunity, you know, you probably also thought, well, I don't even I don't know if we we we can actually do this, we only have so much time. So it was probably not easy to say yes to it, even though it is a great offer to be on a label like that, but you have to make sure you can actually do what you're supposed to do. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 57:07

Uh and I um yeah, I really know we we didn't always meet the expectations. Um, because like you already said, everybody here has its job, some have uh already kids. So to find the time to do everything like that was challenging, really challenging. Um we we also had a tour with with uh great band from Germany called Masen Defekt. Um it was last fall, so we had to attempt almost every weekend in October and uh all over Germany, but not all over because near us there were there was no no show um less than three hours away from here, so we had to travel a lot also, and um beside it to make all these reels, make all these content, make all these videos, make plans uh what we want to reach with every single we put out, and so on and so on. It it was pretty tough and it was challenging, but yeah, I think it's it it always depends on the communication between you and and the other part. So with Uncle M, it it's just communication in the end.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Yeah, yeah, totally. And you would say, I mean, you already said it pretty much, but you would say that most of the things that you've done with Mirko with Uncle M, you wouldn't have been able to do those on your own, right? Like it was absolutely great that you had his support and his help there. I was just asking it because you know, so many people these days say, well, you don't need labels anymore, you can do everything yourself. And I get where this is coming from, and it's the in theory it's true, there's no gatekeeping and stuff anymore. But on the other hand, it depends on what the label is really doing for you because some labels don't do shit, if you if we're being honest. They just, you know, they may they might pay for the manufacturing of the record or parts of it or whatever, but that that's oftentimes it. And some and then other people like Mirku really help you beyond that and like want to make sure that people actually listen to it. That's the big difference. You don't necessarily need a label to get it on Spotify or to be available on a mail order or something. You can do those things yourself if you figure it out. But Mirku is doing more than just that in your case. That's important to realize here. And so I think you would agree that you had definitely had a um you benefited from that collaboration. Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

I mean, there's one thing about him either if you love it or you hate it, but he's going into detail. So I mean, I know we need reels, I know we need content when we are playing to put on an album, but he's telling you what camera angle you have to use for the reels. So this is the one thing he's so great in. I mean, he's he's just going into detail in every kind of in every part of the promotion stuff that's going on, and this is one thing that that makes him special, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

Yeah, very cool. Yeah, yeah, totally. And also, um, if you aren't aware, like if you're listening to this and you didn't know, um Miko also did a guest workshop inside of our coaching program, the self-recording syndicate. So this is still available for everyone in the program. You can watch the replay of this. This was really great. He took the time to explain a lot of these concepts that he goes through with bands, a lot of creative things also. And it was cool because he started off with the digital stuff and like things you would expect, although he always has a different spin on everything, like it's always a little surprising. But he started off with, you know, the online digital social media stuff. And then halfway through it turned into hey, there's also things outside of these big tech companies that you can do. Like if you know, you it's there's not just reels and TikTok and Instagram and social media, there's also things that you can do in the real world, depending on your situation, where you live, and all those things, of course. But it was really cool to just see it a more of a holistic, general creative approach to music marketing and some great ideas in there. So that was a really, really cool workshop. So for anyone in the program, this is still available. And if you join the program and work with us, you get access to this as well. And we aim to do more of things like these because yeah, it was really, really, really cool to see his approach there. Yeah. All right, cool. So, what are some plans for Swallows Rose um this year and moving forward? Like, how you're gonna play shows, I guess. Are there any like exciting tours planned or things that you can announce already?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

Uh, we have a lot of shows uh happening this year, so uh, I think there are about 20 or 25 already announced. Looking forward for every single show. I mean, you know us, uh, this is what we love to do. And we're going to release uh one or two more songs this year. Keeping up the algorithm.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I'm totally excited for those. Um that's gonna be that's gonna be cool. Yeah, some content in between, and then the live shows. I would highly recommend you catch Swallows Rose Live. Uh, we just played uh my old band Bridges of Burning, we just played your the release show with Swallows Rose in our hometown, and it was absolutely fantastic. That night was like really, really special to me personally for many reasons. And like the yeah, the live show is very, very energetic. It's very it's a mix between energy, but then also this sense of unity and sing-alongs, and like at the end of it, where everyone, you know, this kind of everyone was singing together, the music stops, we just keep singing, and it's like it's just yeah, uh, a great, great, great experience. Um, and and also you got so much more experience now over the years as well. I remember a couple years ago, I've been obviously I've known you for a long time now, and you can tell that you just played a lot because in the beginning it was really you playing your songs, and then it was not this whole like thought-out show that just works seamlessly together. And now it's like you can just tell that you have the experience that what happens between the songs, what you say to people, the energy, everything, it just makes so much more sense. It just looks so much more mature and just pulls you in so much better. So, I always also have to say, like, you made so much progress there. Thank you. Uh, it's fascinating to see, really. Yeah, I don't know how you feel about it yourself, but this is definitely a difference from compared to what you had in the beginning, yeah. Same way, but thanks. Yeah, cool. So, Manel, did you have any any other thoughts on this whole thing? Um, or was there anything recording or production-wise that we missed talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Um, well, yeah, I mean, I have a question about the vocal recording, which is like, how did the session go? Like, do you like to record the vocals like in one take the whole song? Or do you prefer to like go in different beats, or how like how do you go about that?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:53

Uh most of the time, uh if I remember it right, you can help me on that, Benedict. Um I recorded one each song for the first time. I recorded the whole song and then part by part. Just um the first tag was always for the feeling, so that also Benedict knows more about the song and what it needs to sound like. And then we went part by part because it's uh for me it's it's much better because I can really concentrate on this part. We we can really go into detail. That one note now, sing it a little bit higher, sing it a little bit deeper, add something more rough, more more game to it, or it depends. But I really like to go part by part.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

And did you do a lot of like doubles and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:46

Uh I really think doubles just for the choruses. But we did a lot of harmonies, and what we do a lot on the recording is uh some kind of gang shouts, so as a choir in the background. Um yes, but much more harmonies than doubles, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, here's the thing, and I just to make this as valuable as possible for the self-recording uh people listening to this. When like when in doubt, you can always record doubles and you can mute them when you don't need them. But in this case, like I was very intentional about where we needed things, and this was due to a couple of reasons. So, first of all, I didn't want to make Dominique sing all the doubles just on principle because it also, you know, I just wanted the voice to last, of course. So I wanted to make sure we only sing the stuff that we really need. The other thing is I knew listening to the demos and listening to the rough mixes, and while we were recording, I just have a feeling for when I need, and also I'm gonna mix it so I know like what are the parts that I need doubles for because they need to be a bit bigger or wider, and what are the parts where I'm not gonna use them anyway? So this just comes with experience, of course, and it's I'm being very intentional there, and I just know building the song where we're gonna need which. Which things. Um, harmonies, it was not always that clear. Like with harmonies, we recorded a few where we were like, yep, that's a good idea, but let's see if we will really use them. But that is something where you sometimes you get excited about a new idea and a new harmony, and then you let it sit there a little bit, and then you think, ah, maybe it was better without it. That that can happen, that's just a normal part of the process. But it could be too much as well. So, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And and I think so that your approach, what you just mentioned, is is really right. We just recorded a lot of harmonies, vote doubles very intentional, and the general approach was to do longer chunks or the entire song to get into the song, yeah, and then go into the detailed parts of it. And I think, did we do it on this one as well, like that? Like what I typically try to do is also think strategically about what are some difficult and hard parts to sing. Does it make sense to do these early, or does it make sense to save them for later? Is it good if the voice is already breaking up a little bit for those parts, or do we need to do them earlier before that happens?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:01

Um, selecting the songs like that. Uh not parts, but the songs.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

Ah, yeah. So I you told me pretty much what are the difficult songs, and like yeah. I think that's important. You gotta be strategic about that because the worst thing that can happen is that you blow your voice on the first song, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:16

And then um, so start with an easy one, and yeah, then for me it was always um kind of led two easy ones, then the most challenging one, and uh we maybe did about four tracks uh each session, and and we ended off with an easy one as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

So yeah, that's just good mentally, also. That's just good for like if you if you save the most challenging one for the end, it can also end up pretty being pretty frustrating. So that's why I think you need to, you know, be a bit strategic about it. But that that worked out pretty well, I'd say. Like, and I remember I was so nervous because of the voice, like for no reason because you just delivered, but like, yeah, the moment you walked in and started talking, I was like, we need to reschedule this, this is not gonna work.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:00

No, uh, on this day, I was really sure about it to to do it because I I don't know. Uh I mean, uh, I already felt sick, so yeah, and and I knew that this isn't the best voice I've ever had on this day, but somehow I don't know why. I really felt like let's do this. And I mean in the end, it it was a good idea to do it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

And it was also hard for me a little bit because part of me really thought this is not a good idea, this is not gonna work, and I want to save him from you know wasting a lot of time and like ruining the voice even more. And so I felt the responsibility to tell you that it might not be the best idea, but then at the other hand, on the other hand, the more I say this, the more you might end up and you might get insecure, and maybe it yeah, but like that's what I thought, you know. I was like, What what if he's what if he's right, you know, and it's a it is actually a good idea to do it. I should trust him, and then I was like, yeah, I I I didn't want to ruin you know the the situation or like take away from the motivation and the excitement, but at the same time I didn't want to lie and say, Oh, it's all great when I read it in reality.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:09

I thought, oh my god, but also I mean um because of this, we also selected the songs right for this day, because um we both together decided it uh it wasn't my best day uh to uh recalling the voice. So we selected two or three songs we thought, okay, these are the songs uh that suit today.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Any other questions on the whole thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:39

Yeah, the other question is did you go through all the lead vocals first and then the vacuum vocals or always so you do you did the lead vocals of every song first and then the vacuum vocals of every song?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:54

I think we went song by song if I worked. No this was the approach to do it on downfall, and now we did all the lead vocals first because we said this is when the voice is at its best. Um the lead vocals are much more important than the harmonies or the doubles or something like that. So we went all through the lead vocals and then we added all the extras.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:18

Not entirely. I but maybe I'm wrong. The way I remember it is yes, the harmonies for sure, like exactly for the reason you mentioned. Uh but I think we did doubles right away, didn't we? Like I would be surprised if not because usually right away, right? Yes, because usually I'm like, if you're in the mood already and you just sang a perfect take, it's easier to do it right away because then you'll sing it pretty much exactly the same. And if you wait and do it later, yeah. So yeah, so that's why. And I think for the doubles, there was always pretty much just one take. Like you say, we we did it until you had a perfect like lead take, and then I was like, okay, let's do a pair of doubles. You just did them done, perfect, let's move on. They don't have to be perfect, even and you were very close actually, uh pretty quickly. But I think we waited with the harmonies and made sure that we had all the lead parts first.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:01

Yeah, it was the the most difficult take to do because some things are really high up there.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:08

Yep, yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:09

And to do it all in one day, all the harmonies, all the high notes was challenging, but we we did it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, there were some really cooler ones in there. I remember that. Yeah. And then at the as a very last thing, we did like gang harm uh shouts, gang, gang vocals, that kind of stuff. That's always a fun way to wrap up the recording sessions, I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:32

Yeah, bring bringing them all together. Yeah. Having them in there, joking.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:39

That's a cool thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

Yeah. Oh, and then maybe one thing we didn't even mention, like there were some extras on the record, like you know, some some subtle, but still there, some synth stuff, some some additional production stuff that you did. Um, I don't remember all of it. Because on the last record, I did a lot of that. On this record, I think you delivered everything basically. Um so you made that yourself. Uh was it all you? Was it other people in the band?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:03

Oh no, the uh this thing I I did it completely myself. Yeah. Yes. I did all with this little thing here.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. Any any particular uh any particular synths or or things you use that you really like ended up liking?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:22

To be honest, I um I'm not sure about that because I'm not really into synthesizers or some something like that. I just used something. So I really when I thought it sounded good, I I just took it. I mean was it all stock Q-base stuff, or did you get any third-party things or uh I got some third-party things, but it was all free stuff. So yeah. And it worked out. So yeah, it totally did.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:48

It was just little extras anyways, little textures, little things here and there. How did you do the the the trap hi-hat um stuff and the percussion things like that?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:57

Splice, I think it's called the one program.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:01

Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:03

Love this like that. It's so cool to add some some bass drops, some trap eats, um, yeah, some sort of that things.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

Yeah, totally great. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:14

So good.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:15

And any of the other did we have like tambourines and standard percussion stuff in there? I think so, right? But I just programmed it. I mean programmed it everything. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:23

There are over a million tambourines on the internet, so uh I really didn't think it's necessary to play it in a studio.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:34

No, it isn't. No, no, absolutely. No, that worked out great. Yeah, I just try to keep thinking about what else was there. Did we have any movie samples or stuff like that this time? I don't think so. Yeah, we did. And back in life, yes. Oh, yeah, and back in life, yeah, you're right. There's this one. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. Ah man, I mean, there's two features on it. So oh, yeah, of course. There were two features from all the bands.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:56

From Watch Me Rise and um Yost from Catapults to such great singers, and I absolutely love what they did for the songs, and made them so much better. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:12

That was a concept that yeah, that was a concept that already worked on the last record. Uh, and this time it absolutely worked too. I remember uh when I uh what was the first one I heard? The uh The end of Drush, yeah. That that is insane. Like the the energy, the aggression in there that that just took it over the top. It's so good. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's great. No, both of them. Both of them, fantastic parts. Yeah. Alright. Um, I think I think people should just check out the record. Uh, we talked about it so much. Like, that is absolutely worth listening to. There's you're gonna discover so much on that. I'm I'm so stoked about how it turned out. I I am also excited to see that all the reviews and what I've seen in terms of reactions online so far. Uh, people seem to really like it and resonate with it. I've seen some uh creators use it on their on the in their social media reels as well, even without you asking. I think some of them just you know so ended up using it, discovering it. So people just like the record, which is awesome. And so uh if people want to get the record and not just stream it, um if you want to if they want to get get it on vinyl, what's the best way to go about that?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:18

Uh in Germany, um Uncle M shop, and I think it's almost everywhere to to to get it. I think JPC or what's it called, the the Bone Big uh record store. I think they're shipping to USA to Canada and yeah. Just type in the beginning vinyl in Google and you will find a homepage that's delivering it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:43

Yeah, I'm gonna put all the links I can find in the show notes as well, and below this video, you can uh order the good stuff. I have my copy of the record here. I just made a post about it today. It's a very beautiful looking record as well, not just sounding one, it's like a really beautiful looking vinyl. And so, yeah, you can get the good stuff and also merch and all those other nice things. I'm gonna put it below here. Cool. Any last words? Any final words? Any final any final words for the podcast?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:11

Just uh I mean I hope it it it uh um everybody knows in here that you also have a big impact on this record. And I hope you know that you have because you did a lot of uh not just um engineering things on it, but you co-produced it with me and with three the other guys, and also did some sort of things. I mean, you're always a creative guy when it comes to engineering as well. So the just for example, the drum parts and the second verse of uh Leave a Light on or something like that. So you had I think impact on it too. And then people should know that as well, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:50

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Yeah, as always, if you want to work with me, you can go to benedicthein.com. This is the studio website. And if you're interested in our coaching and want to learn all those things yourself and have me as a remote producer guiding you through it, you can go to the self-recording band.com/slash coaching, and I'm excited to talk about your next project and see if it's a great fit. So thank you, Dominique, for saying that. I really appreciate that. Cool. Um, and also Manel, let's not forget you. Manel is part of the self-recording band team. So Manel is the songwriting and creative brain here. Like he's very good at like creating something from nothing, coming up with arrangement ideas, coming up with you know creative writing stuff, also a fantastic mixed engineer. So yeah, beyond stoked to have you here as well, Manelle, and to have you on the team. So thank you. All right. Um, let's wrap this up. Dominique, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Everyone, checking out the uh check out the the links in the show notes and the description. Check out Swallow's Rose, The Beginning, go catch them live. And also, Dominique, thank you for trusting me so much over the years as well. It's uh always been a pleasure to work with you. All right, see you next week. Bye. Bye. Goodbye.