The NorthStar Narrative
The NorthStar Narrative
Cultivating Goodness
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Laura Barringer shares her journey from kindergarten teacher to co-author with her father of "A Church Called Tov" and "Pivot," exploring how biblical goodness transforms Christian communities.
• Tov is the Hebrew word for goodness appearing over 700 times in Scripture
• Tov cultures are characterized by empathy, grace, truth-telling, and putting people first
• Honest assessment requires asking for feedback and being willing to hear uncomfortable truths
• Leaders must listen when the Holy Spirit disrupts their plans and ambitions
• Healthy leadership uses power as Jesus did—often by giving it away rather than controlling others
Hi, this is Stephanie Shafer and you're listening to the North Star Narrative, a podcast from North Star Academy. I want to thank you for joining us. I hope you're encouraged, challenged and motivated by what you learned today. Enjoy the story. Welcome everybody. Thanks for tuning in today.
Stephanie Shafer:I am so honored to welcome a new friend that I met this year in February, actually at the Converge Conference Laura Berenger. She is a teacher, a writer and a co-author of several books, one of which is a church called Tov that we're going to dive in today. Tov is the Hebrew word for goodness, and this book has deeply impacted me as a leader and just knowing Laura and getting to hear some of her story at the conference. While it was written for the church, it's a message of nurturing empathy, grace, truth and Christlikeness, and it's going to speak to every Christian community, including our work here at Northstar. I'm excited to talk with Laura about what a culture of Tov looks like, how we can lead with goodness and how we can help students, teachers and families experience the love of Christ in all we do. So thank you so much, laura, for joining me today.
Laura Barringer:Thank you for having me, stephanie. I feel honored and grateful to be here with you when I look back on Converge. Meeting you and sitting down and getting to know you just a little bit was one of the highlights of the whole conference, the whole week for me. So it truly is my honor to be here today.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, I'm so excited. The same for me. Yeah, just hearing and learning from you at the conference was so, so good, so I can't wait for our listeners to also hear from you. And yeah, just thank you for that time sitting down and talking with me and listening and pouring in and just reminds me that's what we do for sisters in Christ. And, yeah, just love community and so thankful for your care and your father's care for community and what churches should look like. And so, along with Laura, her father, scott McKnight, authored the book as well, so I'm sure she'll reference what that was like writing two books. You can also talk about your other book too, but let's just dive in and would you just share a little bit about yourself, your background in teaching and writing and what led you to co-author these two books with your father?
Laura Barringer:Yeah, I have a very unlikely story. It's not. Writing books is not something I ever planned to do. I am an educator. I teach very young children in fact, the youngest children in our school system, the kindergartners children, in fact, the youngest children in our school system, the kindergartners and when I graduated with a degree from education from Wheaton College years ago, that's what I plan to do. That's my passion. I love schools. I love leadership in schools. I have my leadership education. That came later as well.
Laura Barringer:What happened in 2018, a story broke in the Chicago Tribune for those of us who live up in this area. I live outside of the city of Chicago. The Chicago Tribune is the major newspaper here in our area and it was an article about my former church, willow Creek, my former pastor, bill Hybels, and it was, I believe, the headline referenced sexual harassment by Bill and I. Actually, if I rewind the tape, I remember it like it was yesterday. My husband and I were in the car and I started reading the article out loud to him and when we got to the names of the women, we just kind of looked at each other in disbelief, because he either knew some of them I knew of some of them. Most of them were family friends, and that's really when the trajectory of the next season of my life changed is.
Laura Barringer:It was that article that led to my dad and I ultimately writing together the book that became A Church called Tov. That's how it all started. It's not something that I ever planned. I'm the least likely person to be sitting here talking to you today. Again, like I said, I planned and I still do I spend my days as an educator, so it's been an unlikely journey for me.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, that's how it is a lot of times with Christ. You never know what he's going to call us to do and walk through.
Laura Barringer:Yeah.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, rough, and you reference a lot of that at the beginning of the book and just different churches and the hard things churches leaders go through and the hard things churches leaders go through. And so, with North Star being a school, I would love to kind of focus on all that you've learned about Tove and how schools, especially ones like North Star, online so thinking about a culture online and how to build that goodness in yeah, so I'm excited to just mark that you know it's interesting, shortly after A Church Called Tov came out, it resonated, I found we found that it resonated with leaders of schools, especially Christian schools, because no matter where you live or work, we are called as followers of Christ to be Tov as he is Tov.
Laura Barringer:And so this connection was made, started with my friend, eric Ellefson picked up a church called Tove and was like hey, I went to college with Laura. Like I know her, I want to talk to her. He's the one that made the connection between Tove and teaching. And it really resonated with school leaders because Christian school leaders, because it doesn't matter. Like we are called to be Tov as he is Tov, no matter what our workplace is, as people who are on kingdom mission together. So that's been a joy to be able to talk about that intersection of a church called Tov with education.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, and as I was reading the book, even family, I mean every relationship, especially starting with our family. Just the goodness of God. Okay, so many people might be listening and going what is?
Laura Barringer:this Toad culture?
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah. How would you describe it in simple terms? And why is it crucial in Christian communities and workplaces?
Laura Barringer:So I'm going to back up a little bit just to the word itself. I think we have to have a really good understanding of that, and then it kind of lays the framework for your question. So you had mentioned earlier, tov is a Hebrew word. It means good or goodness, and if you, in fact if you open your Bible to the very first page of Genesis, you'll see tov seven times, like after each day of creation, god declares that what he made is good or tov. And then I've learned from my dad and the Bible Project I'm a frequent user of their app that it that word tov follows more than 700 times in our Bible, in the Old Testament and the New Testament, and it can be used to describe something at that is like morally good, and I've learned again from my dad that it's one of, like, the major moral categories of the Bible.
Laura Barringer:So God is Tov. He calls us to be Tov, as he is Tov, and Jesus is our Tov shepherd, and Tov is his design. It is his design for all of creation, and that includes our homes and our workplaces. So when we think about being Tov in school it is about in the book we wrote about ways to resist what is toxic to make it Tov. So we are people that Jesus is our model as followers of him, and we as people are called to be Tov as he is.
Laura Barringer:So just really quickly, like a real quick overview we are people who are pursuing the kingdom right. We are people who are empathetic, who offer grace and mercy, are empathetic, who offer grace and mercy, who put people first over. We saw Jesus do this all the time. We put people first over anything, over an institution, over other leaders. We are creating cultures of truth-telling, of I mentioned mercy, but justice too of serving each other. Like Jesus said, I came to serve, so we too can humble ourselves and serve. And, above all, we're nurturing communities where people are discipled and taught to be like him, and when these elements are like fed into a culture, they produce fruit, if you will. That is good, which is what we are seeking as followers of him.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, that's so good. I love listening to you and your teaching and describe it so well. And yeah, all right. So the word toe means goodness? You've probably answered some of this, but do you have anything more you can tell us on why that word matters so much to you and how has it shaped your personal journey as a teacher and writer?
Laura Barringer:Yeah, it, um. It means a lot more now that I am aware of its importance in scripture. If anybody is unfamiliar with the Bible Project, I highly recommend like. Go onto their app, it's all free and type in Tov and some beautiful resources. Come up of what that word means and I think you'll gain an understanding of who Jesus is.
Laura Barringer:A passage that has meant a lot to me this summer is in the Gospel of Matthew, where Jesus is. He's leaving Jericho on his way to Jerusalem. So he's like on the most important mission right of history to rescue us from darkness and depression. And a blind man, a beggar, we're told in another gospel his name is Bartimaeus, is sitting on the side of the road shouting at Jesus like have mercy on me, have mercy on me and other people in the crowd. It's like a stern, unfriendly crowd and they're telling Bartimaeus to be quiet and the message like if I were sitting there in Bartimaeus' position, I think I would feel like, oh, like they're telling me I'm not important enough for this Jesus, that I am at his mercy, like I can offer him nothing. And I'm so struck in that moment by what does Jesus do? He stops and one gospel says he went to Bartimaeus. Another says Bartimaeus was brought to him but, either way, jesus stops and asks him what do you want? And he says I want my sight. And Jesus touched him and healed him and from that moment Bartimaeus followed him and from that moment, bartimaeus followed him.
Laura Barringer:So when we ask, like why is you know? Why is Tov important? Like well, why does Jesus do what he did? Why does he stop for people that can offer nothing? It's because he is Tov. So why does it matter to me?
Laura Barringer:I think it matters to me because of what Jesus did, what his actions show. They show just that one. Like I stop for you. Like it shows that he cares, that he's merciful, that he listens, that he honors the outcast, that other people are telling to be quiet and I'm far from perfect, but I try to live the way that he lived and it impacts how I teach, how I relate to my students. I feel more sensitive to the outsiders, you know the ones that are being bullied or not included or need a friend. It matters to me.
Laura Barringer:When I speak with parents, I try to remember Jesus's example and offer grace and mercy. I teach really little children and their parents are very nervous. Some of them are dropping their kids off at school for the first time and they've got a lot of questions, questions and remembering Jesus's example. It helps me see it more of a ministry of like walking them through the fear of trusting another person with their child for the first time. So it structures it's not so much that it structures my classroom, but it changes me from the inside so that I can be the person and treat people, treat my students and their parents and my colleagues the way that Jesus would. And again, I make a lot of mistakes. I'm far from perfect, but I try with his grace. I try with his grace.
Stephanie Shafer:That's so good and it just reminds me of yeah, Jesus, his goodness, to make each person feel seen and known and being present, and so doing that being present in each moment.
Laura Barringer:Yeah, yeah, that is good, that story of Bartimaeus. Like him, Jesus, for some reason, just like him stopping, you know, it's not like he was running errands around town, like he had, he had something really important to do. He was on his way to Jerusalem, to where he would die for us. Like it's not like he was just, you know, running to the store. The fact that he stopped and cared, like reached inside of me and healed, like the parts of myself that are broken or not included or needed his comfort and know that I was seen, it's like I can be seen and loved in what is seen, is what that passage taught me. And when I think about how Jesus cared for Bartimaeus and how he cares for me, I want to do that for others, including for the students in my classroom. I feel like it's not so much about what I do but who I am becoming by his grace.
Stephanie Shafer:So good. We could sit there for a long time, but we'll move on a little bit to get into school. Like North Star, it's not a church, but we do desire to be Christ-centered and have a healthy culture for our students and staff. So how can the principles of Tov translate from a church setting into a Christian school environment?
Laura Barringer:So this is probably after we released a church called Tov. This was probably the question that people asked us most often. They would say, okay, like we get that Tov is important, that it's all over the Bible that God is Tov. That's why Jesus treated people the way he did, because he literally is, he embodies, Tove. Well, how can we do that and that included school leaders how can we create a culture that is healthy and Tove and flourishing? So, as a response to that, we dove in deeply to the research and to reading what we could, and we wrote our second book, pivot, to try to answer that question.
Laura Barringer:So I'm giving a really broad overview. We created a metaphor of a peach tree and it's a really pretty metaphor, but it is based on research. Whatever the metaphor is, we learned that there are visible parts of culture and invisible ones. With a peach tree, you have the branches, your leaves, your trunk, the bark. Hopefully you get tasty peaches that are juicy and healthy, right, but all of what you can see. So in a culture for a school, that might be like. So I'll give you an example from my classroom.
Laura Barringer:If you've ever been in a classroom and had to take five-year-olds to another classroom, you've experienced a cultural experience. It's like no budging. They call it budging now. When we were in school we called it cutting but it is like a visible cultural experience for five-year-olds to line up and go somewhere. It is like we have to have line leaders and door holders and cabooses and there's no budging. It's like this whole thing, like you visibly experience it. But then what is underneath the grass?
Laura Barringer:The soil of a culture is really what feeds the rest of the tree, and I've learned that I didn't know as much about soil as I do now, but the health of a tree is literally dependent on the soil quality. So there's all sorts of things that make soil healthy and it's full of life. It's like teeming with microbes and nutrients and all these things teeming with microbes and nutrients and all these things. And it needs to be balanced with moisture, it needs drainage, it might be too acidic or not enough. So, depending on the health of the soil it feeds the tree and depending on what you're feeding the tree, you get healthy peaches or not. And it's the same way with culture.
Laura Barringer:So, whatever your metaphor, what we learned is that there are visible elements of culture and there are invisible ones, and it's those invisible ones that determine how healthy the culture is. So what we have been trying to teach people is first you need to assess your like, assess your reality and look at what is actually feeding our culture, and that's a whole process in and of itself, right. But once you've determined what's going into your soil, you can determine the health of your tree. You can determine the health of your tree, and then you can take steps to feed the soil with tov, feed the soil with pursuing the kingdom or like the practices that make a culture healthy. But, just like real soil, it's not going to happen on its own. A healthy culture, healthy soil, has to be tended and fed and treated carefully so that it produces healthy fruit.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, that's good, all right. So thinking totally different than brick and mortar. School global, we're everywhere, students from all over, anytime we get on a call like this. We have at least three continents. I had four the other day represented, so just all different time zones, countries. Yeah, it's amazing so lots of different cultures, really cool.
Stephanie Shafer:But um we have a student council and so they work really hard to welcome people and have events and you know we have chapels so many different things. But thinking about online students who are all over the world, what are some ways that they can show Tove to each other working as team and then to students?
Laura Barringer:working as team and then two students. Yeah Well, I I right away. I heard you say, um, student council. I heard you mentioned chapel, so it sounds like those are ways that you are you're feeding the soil of your culture. Um, I would think being online. So when people are online, there's a tendency to.
Laura Barringer:Would I treat a person online the way that I treat them if I'm sitting right next to them? Does it change their? Does it change my? If you will, my? Like I don't want to say bravery, but like I might not treat them with as much dignity as I would if they're sitting right next to me. So that comes to mind right away Like, can you like feed that into your soil? Like, make that a value? You know, I might not be always looking at you face to face. I might be interacting with you, or maybe I am looking at you face to face, but there's a little bit of separation. So I have the freedom to um treat you less than I would if you were sitting right next to me.
Laura Barringer:Yeah, um, I'll give an example from my district. I can't my. My administrators are really good at this. They've never actually spoken it out loud, but I do believe that fun is one of their values that they infuse into the soil of our culture. It manifests in all sorts of ways but, like the two of them at the end of the school year were standing on a roof throwing water balloons down at the eighth graders and then the kindergartners got involved, or they'll throw staff parties and they'll like boomerang shirts across the cafeteria and people want to be around them. Teachers invite, like our superintendent, into a classroom and they want them to read books, and they'll be running around at recess throwing footballs with with second graders and um.
Laura Barringer:I have to think that that that is a value that they infuse into the soil. They're really good at it, and I think the part that I want you to hear as being an online school is it's not so much what the act, it's not so much what they say, but it's what they do, like they never have said we are trying to create fun, but they, they do it, and then the peaches are a result of it. So if you consider your unique community, um, and you let's say community is a value, like you want to, you want people to um, get to know each other and feel connected, like, how can you infuse those values into the soil, Is it? Like you know, here is the chapel. Sounds like a great example of that, like we're not together but we still worship the same God and we can celebrate cultures. So like thinking about what your values are. How would you infuse that into your soil?
Stephanie Shafer:They do a great job. They're getting ready for the back-to-school bash. Yeah, lots of times with each other facing, you know, seeing each other and encouraging one another. But they'll even get together and have like study calls and just play music and be studying at the same time. So not even talking, but just being there and being present. And then we have a live graduation, which is so cool to see them. They've never seen each other, you know, in person, but then when they come there might be like a couple moments awkward, and then all of a sudden they're best friends, there's lots of goodness and just yeah, as leaders, how do we continue to nurture that?
Stephanie Shafer:as you know, the teachers and the admin, just all of our staff. What are some ways to continue to build that?
Laura Barringer:Yeah Well, I guess one of my first questions would be, if I were coming to sit down with you or doing a meeting online is what are your values, what do you exist for and who do you want to be? So I would have that question of you first what are your values of your community?
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, well, we exist to give a really personalized experience to families and then provide excellent academics and also that global experience and then to experience Christ and who he is. And so we do all that through our courses and through how the teachers really encourage and love on students. So, even though they're not in a classroom, um standing in front of them, we do have live courses once a week, but they do that through just their feedback and nurturing and praying with our students. So I'm kind of giving some examples, but we're also really great in collective leadership and having collaboration together and then being really mission minded. So all the faculty and staff um thoroughly believe in the mission that we were called to disciple our students, to love them, see them transformed for kingdom impact now and in the future.
Stephanie Shafer:And we're really praying individually to make each student feel known, each family, each family like even when a family calls on the phone, maybe a mom, and she's trying to figure out will my kid be great at online school, is this a good place? And just not trying to convince them, but praying with them what's the best, right thing and giving them the information they need and just listening. I'm so proud of our team because I'll hear things from parents that have joined you know so-and-so. They talked to me for an hour and a half where other schools I couldn't get to answer the phone, or you know, and just I don't know. I'm kind of sharing some examples of just really a relational community that really you know values, making people feel seen and known. And we're not perfect and there's things you know we can do better, but overall that's some of our, some of our values.
Laura Barringer:That's beautiful, Um, I, if I were in your position, I would, because that matters, right. I would, and that matters right. I would ask, I would put out some sort of feedback tool, survey, whatever would be appropriate for your setting, and ask people, Ask the parents, ask the students. Do you feel seen, Do you feel connected to the school? If so, can you give an example? Have, like maybe it would be my teacher prayed with me, or? And if not, why not? And um, and we've learned that that is like the most important, one of the most important steps that leaders are.
Laura Barringer:Often they tend to neglect because for all, for many reasons, but one of them is because it's hard to face the reality of, it's hard to face the truth about oneself, right, and so you're asking for feedback, but you can't skip that part, right? If you want to know if your values are being lived out, you have to ask the people that would know, and that would be your students, that would be your students most of all, and their parents, and I would ask them do you feel and you know, go through your values, that this is true of your experience with us at our school and if not, what could we do better. And then you honestly look at what comes back and you accept the reality, you know, even if it's not good, but it sounds like it would, it sounds like it would be, but you never know Right, Like somebody might have something valuable to share. And then you look at the soil. You look at what's feeding our soil and maybe it is healthy and that's to be celebrated and praise God for that.
Laura Barringer:Um, I can't imagine that that there has to be we're we as humans are not perfect right On this side of, of, uh, the future kingdom. Um, there has, there, I would think, in every culture there's something that could be identified to make it more merciful, more just, more people first over, like the class or the syllabus, Like what. Evaluate and take honestly the feedback that comes and then talk with your leadership team about what could we remove from the soil or what could we add to make it more Tov.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, yeah. Now's the time to dig in to that deeper, because we've been going through quite a bit of transition and change, but there's always goodness in that and how God is moving goodness in that and how God is moving.
Laura Barringer:So what I've read is um first I've seen a few times, too many times is um leaders often don't want to really know the truth. They say they do, so the the data comes back and there's this temptation to um keep it to themselves or change it or alter it a little bit to make themselves look better than they are, and that just ends up building mistrust. Right, like I know I took a survey and what did you do with it? Like it just disappeared. Or like I know I took a survey and gave this feedback and it's not reflected. Like, do you, are you lying? Like it, you know it, it creates, it breeds mistrust. So, but I think it's like the research is like you have to be really clear about what the problem is before you can move to make things healthier.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, that's good, good advice. Okay, let's see I've got quite a few questions. We could stay here all day, but we won't do that. So much goodness, all right, in the book you talk about allowing space for the Holy Spirit to creatively lead toward Tov rather than over-programming, and so we've, you know, talked a little bit about some examples we have here. But what does that look like in real life, whether you're in a church, a classroom or school community?
Laura Barringer:What comes to mind first is a beautiful book my dad had sent to my house when we were actually writing our second book, pivot. It's called Renovation of the Church. But I really think the process that the pastors went through this could be a school principal, it could be a teacher, it could be a superintendent, it can definitely transfer over to education. So the pastors I'll try to make it as quick as I can Two pastors founded a church in California. Ironically, they came out to Willow Creek to a conference to learn how to do church, went back. Everything they tried worked Like it boomed. It became a mega church. Attendance soared. Okay, the pastors sort of became a little famous in the Willow Circle, like they were known as up-and-coming leaders etc. Over time they started to collectively feel the two of them like this disruption in their soul. They felt they had been reading Dallas, willard, eugene Peterson, some of the contemplative, deep philosophers in Christian thinking, and they had one. I'm quoting almost directly. They said our egos had gotten out of control, like we liked standing in front of the service, in front of the auditorium at the end of a service and having a line of people come like waiting to talk to us, like I felt, they said I felt like my ambition had run away, like my ambition had run away. But also they were like every time we planned a weekend service, it was like we were feeding a monster, like the next service had to be even bigger and better. And then the people that would come were not really we weren't discipling them. They were like consuming a show and they wanted a better one the next week.
Laura Barringer:So I share this story because the beauty of it is that they paid attention to that disruption. They didn't just like swallow it and move on. They talked about it with each other, they confessed it. They confessed it, most importantly, to God, and then wrote a book about it, publicly confessing. Like we're not doing church for the right reason we are. We are um doing it. What is feeding our soil is our own ambition, um, consumerism. And they created a vision instead and listen to that disruption in their soul of wait. No, this is not who we want to be. We want to be people who disciple. We want to be people who disciple, not people who produce a show.
Laura Barringer:And so they did. They, completely, I would imagine, dug out their soil and replaced it with altogether new soil and they said people were totally confused at first and their attendance was cut in half. But they just slowly pushed against the toxic parts of the culture and listened to the Holy Spirit who was disrupting their whole plan, and they said it was terribly hard but it was so, so good. Hard but it was so, so good. And I think that illustrates anything we've tried to say in Pivot or Tov is like, when the Holy Spirit disrupts, listen, right, it's not always easy and he may take us a different direction. But that story and it's not a story, it's real life is an example of like he's paying attention and moves today and when he decides to do that, like we can join him in transforming, transforming people, transforming culture. It's that same God who does work in both.
Stephanie Shafer:I love that so good. I'm glad I asked that question Listening to the disruption, because, yes, sometimes the disruption is we don't want to hear it. We want to push against that what Holy Spirit's doing, instead of lean in, because that's hard. But that's a beautiful, beautiful story. Checking our ambition.
Laura Barringer:That's what I, I, I is. The beauty of the story for me is, like we're we're always going to make mistakes, people are going to make mistakes, but that's the beauty of what I see in the Gospels about Jesus, like, okay, you made a mistake, let's talk about it and you're restored. Go, you know, follow where I lead, follow me. And um, I, just I, so it's not that I re. I mean, I don't want us to be like I respect them so much I do, but um, they're like modeling Christ, like like a disciple. Would they're modeling discipleship for me, with listening right?
Stephanie Shafer:It reminds me what I repeat to myself over and over and try to share Fear shame and guilt are never good advisors. So they didn't listen to the fear of oh, our congregation is going to split in half. What are we going to do? Or lose half, like you said? But they just went ahead and trusted God. He would bring the people that needed to come.
Laura Barringer:Yeah, my therapist says that a lot, like if you're making a decision based out of fear or shame, like you're not in a good place to make a decision.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, so good decisions.
Laura Barringer:Don't come out of fear like that. I'm sure they were terrified and he said the people were confused Again, their attendance dropped. The staff was totally confused because they had been hired for their skill or their talent and all of a sudden it was upside down. That really is not what we value. We value teaching people. We value discipling people. How do you become a disciple of Christ? Well, as a result. That's our value. Our church service does not align with that. So instead of focusing on how many people are coming, we are going to focus on who those people are becoming, and so our whole ministry looks totally upside down.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, I love that, and being intentional is what they're called to do.
Laura Barringer:I love that and being intentional Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Shafer:That's what they're called to do, yeah.
Laura Barringer:Yeah, that's so good. All right, you've said that character matters most, can you? Because I know in the survey, you, I've seen leadership change to where a school board who makes like, makes decisions, um, like, makes decisions powers over, uses their power to scare those under them, the administrators, who then scare the teachers, who then are on edge and are having meetings in hallways, or some of you know, losing really good people who are going to other school districts because they're scared of their workplace, and then I've seen it shift to a school board that doesn't rule by fear, like I wouldn't necessarily even know how to pinpoint, like I wouldn't necessarily even know how to pinpoint. I think they take direction from a healthy administrator who leads them, they mutually lead, and who then doesn't scare the admin, who doesn't scare the teachers who feel like, oh, this is a safe place to work. So, to summarize, I would that would be an example of leadership really matters.
Laura Barringer:How are you leading? Are you being a person that misuses power to get what you want? To get what you want? Again, pointing to Jesus, how did he use his power? He gave a lot of it. I mean, he gave it away. He didn't misuse it. He certainly called out hypocrisy, but he didn't use it to get what he wanted and I've seen that make a huge difference. Um, I know we talk about, like what's feeding the soil the leadership of the metaphorical tree I think I have seen um determines in large part what the culture feels like, what it feels like for the staff to walk in or to show up in a meeting or in the classroom.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, so true. Okay. So for leaders that are listening and it could be student leaders, pastors of a church, any type of leaders, school leaders Hearing this, a lot of this is heavy and processing through this on a continual basis, because it's not a one-time thing, even the story you told, they have to continue to evaluate. How are we doing at discipleship? Are we leaning back in to the ambition? Are we staying? So what advice and you can look at me and give it to me, but thinking about all leaders what advice do you give about not getting overwhelmed by all this information, staying, you know, close to Jesus? And, yeah, what are some of the next right steps?
Laura Barringer:Well, we go back to character, and character really matters. The character of the leader matters a lot. How do we grow our character? We read the gospels. We read Matthew and Mark and Luke and John, and then we read them again and we immerse ourselves in them and we get to know who Jesus is so that we know how to respond in situations, we know how not to respond in situations.
Laura Barringer:We think, as we're reading and reading again and again and just soaking in who Jesus was, when a situation comes up in a school or in a classroom or in group work with another student, we think, oh, this person seems left out. Okay, what would Jesus do? Well, I saw him include the outsider, like I'm going to invite this person into our group because they look alone. I think that's the most important part of growing our character is the silence and solitude and studying and just being with Jesus in the Gospels and getting to know who he is and then thinking, if Jesus were here right now, if he were me, what would he do? And that's what I can choose to do too.
Laura Barringer:Back to those bracelets W those bracelets, wwjd yeah, literally, what would he do If he were me right now? What would he do? And the only way that I know the answer to that deeply is if I read the Gospels and learn who he was. And every time I read them I learned something new. Something stands out to me Like, just a couple months or just earlier this summer, that Bartimaeus story. I was like I've read that how many times. But it stunned me in His compassion. It was like wait, he stops. He does that for me too.
Stephanie Shafer:I love that. I was going to ask you about how important the Word is, so I'm glad we're done a full circle to end it up. But like, yes, your example at the beginning and now talking about immersing ourselves in the Scripture like we must be in it, and then all the way back to a tree. I love Psalms 1, because as you meditate on it day and night, then you're firmly planted like a tree.
Stephanie Shafer:You know its leaf does not wither and so, yeah, I see a full connection with everything you're sharing and it's all Jesus, the Holy Spirit in the Word, bathing in it, and then we want to be like Him, because we see Him and admire him and and have that forgiveness by him, you know, and it just comes out. But when we disconnect ourself from the word, which is so easily done, you know, busyness or whatever our reason, and then we aren't reminding ourselves of the goodness of right gospel yeah so important.
Stephanie Shafer:Always go back to the word, and you never know what God's going to speak to you through the word each day. It's living and active and powerful. And so, yeah, that's what I wanted to say when you were telling the story of Bartimaeus that you never know what God's going to share with you. And so get in it. Get in it every day.
Laura Barringer:You don't know what's coming and how he'll prepare you. And I've I've heard him whisper like just press on me at church at different times. I was writing a talk for a group and I just I felt him say like I stopped for you, I stopped for you, I stopped for you too.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, so good. Thank you for sharing.
Laura Barringer:Yeah.
Stephanie Shafer:So much Okay. How can those listening um connect with your work more you know, learn about next steps, um anything you want to share where people can find out more out of the books, anything else?
Laura Barringer:Yeah, I'm pretty um, so I have a website, um, and I'm always posting or like sharing through that like where I'm speaking or things that I'm doing. Um, I'm pretty active on social media, so, like, follow me on Instagram and we can connect to there. Um, I love talking to schools, so if there's anybody listening that would want to connect further about um classrooms or um like administration, like Tove and teaching, so reach out to me. I'm I'm accessible. I would love to connect further.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, we'll put all your info. Yeah, yeah, but you can definitely check out um the two books. But you can definitely check out the two books Tove and Pivot and yeah, so much goodness in there and it's been my pleasure to have you today.
Laura Barringer:Oh, it's been such a honor. Like I said, when I think back on Converge, I think, Stephanie, I loved meeting you and connecting with you and I'm so glad that you took the time to do that.
Stephanie Shafer:Yeah, well, it was God putting us together.
Laura Barringer:Yeah.
Stephanie Shafer:Like a meteor session and learning from you, yeah, thank you.
Laura Barringer:Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was truly an honor.
Stephanie Shafer:Thank you so much for listening today. If you have any questions for our guest or would like information about Northstar, please email us. At podcast at nsaschool, we love having guests on our show and getting to hear their stories. If you have anyone in mind that you think would be a great guest to feature, please email us and let us know. And don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss out on upcoming stories.