How Busy Leaders Learn To Be Present

We talk with Dr. Andy Goodwin about what it really takes to be present when leadership pressure never turns off and your calendar keeps filling itself. We explore small, practical shifts that help us choose our spouse and kids without pretending work and responsibility will magically disappear.

• why Walking Slowly is written “in the margins” of a full life 
• presence as a daily choice, not a personality trait 
• using your calendar to reveal real priorities 
• refusing the false solution of “just do less” 
• integrating rest, reading, workouts, and meals into normal rhythms 
• building a culture where rest is expected and modeled 
• student formation that values personhood over performance 
• listening well, trusting the Spirit, seeking the kingdom first 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Stephanie Shafer 0:02

Hi, this is Stephanie Schaefer, and you're listening to the North Star Narrative, a podcast from North Star Academy. I want to thank you for joining us. I hope you're encouraged, challenged, and motivated by what you learned today. Enjoy the story. Hey everybody, welcome to this episode. Excited to have another new friend with us today and really excited about talking about his book because it's so applicable to everyone, especially those in leadership or fast-paced job, always running from one thing to another. I'd like to introduce you to Dr. Andy Goodwin, who is a leader in Christian education, and he currently serves as CEO of Covenant Christian High School in Indianapolis. Over the course of his career, he has served as a teacher, coach, department chair, academic dean, and principal, consistently focusing on building strong, mission-driven school cultures marked by excellence, innovation, and long-term sustainability. He's led multiple accreditation cycles, including earning an exemplary accreditation through the Association of Christian Schools International. And his school has been recognized as both an Andy Star top workplace and a best Christian workplace at the flourishing level. Andy is passionate about helping individuals, families, and institutions flourish through clear mission, vision, and values. He is also the author of Walking Slowly, a book that encourages leaders and fathers to be more present in the midst of demanding lives. And he hosts the Transforming Lives podcast, where he highlights stories of Christ-centered education and transformation. And I recently had the opportunity of recording an episode with him. So exciting, exciting now to have him here and really looking forward to talking about his book. And um yeah, just slowing down, even in this moment, us slowing down as leaders and being present with Jesus and and what he wants to teach us at each moment. So thank you so much, Dr. Goodwin, for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Thank you so much for having me, Stephanie. It's a pleasure.

Why He Wrote Walking Slowly

Stephanie Shafer 2:01

All right. Let's jump into that walking slowly um book. And I know you probably wrote it in the middle of what sounds like a really full um leadership life. So what was happening in your own life that led you to write it?

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah, the big irony is uh I found something else to do in the middle of doing all of these things. And the the extra thing that I found to do was to write a book about slowing down and being more present. So it, you know, I I want to say at the start that I do not have everything figured out, and there are some great ironies uh in, but I wanted to share and kind of preach to myself as well this idea of being more present, more emotionally, physically, mentally present, because it was so much of a challenge for me. Uh it was uh and is uh something that I have to keep out in front of me and make this conscientious choice of being husband and dad first and have everything else kind of follow along in that. So what was going on in my life? So many things, all the things, as we like to say. And uh I wanted to try to uh think out loud and as is helpful to me to write uh and put my my words out there for uh others to consume eventually, but uh really for me to put them in a cohesive uh uh pattern, I suppose, and uh kind of get them out of my head and then really see if I can live them

What Presence Looks Like Daily

SPEAKER_01 3:45

out.

Stephanie Shafer 3:45

Yeah. It is hard on a daily basis. So thinking about leaders who carry a lot of responsibility, um, what does it actually look like to be present in real life? So not just theory. So as you were writing, I'm sure, you know, you're writing of what it what it could look like. Um but just practically. So how have you found living it out when you know things can get you ever wake up and you're planning, okay, here's where I'm gonna be present, but then something happens and throws us off. So just give us some real life examples that you've been able to see in your own life. And then um, I'm sure you've had some conversations with others that have read the book and maybe found it really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, uh that has been the most encouraging thing, I think. Uh that last thing that you said of people reaching out and saying, Hey, I see myself here. Hey, this has been helpful. Hey, I'm not alone. And just to call that out, just to have real conversations with uh husbands and dads specifically, but really all of us in any leadership role, sometimes we don't feel like we're allowed to say out loud, uh, hey, I am not a Superman. Hey, I'm not superwoman. I feel like everybody expects me to be. And my best is given to my work and not necessarily to my family. Uh I'd like to think and say that yes, they are most precious to me. But in reality, if you look at my calendar, which we we have said, hey, uh open up your checkbook and I will show you what your priorities are. Open up your calendar and I will show you what your priorities are. How are you spending your time? And when you are wherever you are, are you really there? And man, it's really hard to turn things off in leadership if if you it's it's one thing to talk about people in leadership. We like we kind of like to do that a lot. Um, it's another thing to experience leadership and know that, experience that arguably nothing is your fault, but everything always is your responsibility. And if if when you feel that weight, and it is a gift too, is it such a gift to be in leadership and and and to wonder why in the world the Lord allows you to do that, whatever that role is, but it is weighty. And it it nothing is ever done, really. And so you have to make these constant, conscientious choices to turn it off and then try to be fully present, not just show up at your kids' games, but to really show up and to to really uh really bring your whole self and and to try to figure this thing out of when you bring in your whole self, that doesn't mean your whole work, your identity is in Christ and ought to be, but man, we so quickly find that in the work that we do. So uh the this is not the the book again back to some some ironies, it's not about all of a sudden just doing less. Because that that doesn't right out of the gate, that doesn't sit well with people. Like, hey, this is not my reality. I have kids, I have a job, I have these people that are counting on me. I can't, or it is um illogical for me to just say, I'm gonna do less, uh less, fewer things. And maybe it is wise. There's a lot of there's a lot of material out there to say, hey, saying no is your very best yes sometimes. And and that's true. This is about okay, here are all these good things that we're going to do, and some of them that we have to do. How can we do them differently, see them differently, and bring our whole selves in those moments and integrate them into a flow of our whole self. And we talk about workouts sometimes, and a lot of times we those fall by the wayside because they we might enjoy them, we might enjoy some kind of physical activity, but it's like this extra. We got to find time to do that instead of integrating that into our day. We'd like to read more, but it's kind of like extra, like we're gonna read ourselves to sleep, or uh we're making the choice of do I read for 20 minutes or go ahead and get 20 more minutes of sleep. And we're not giving ourselves permission to integrate those things into our daily rhythm. We're not really think we're thinking of them as extras we'd like to-dos, uh, like sit down with the family and have a meal, as opposed to uh we got to do this other thing. We gotta here, grab, grab a protein bar and run. Uh, make sure you get some water. Um, as opposed to making a commitment to know this, we're gonna do this thing and we're gonna find out how, not just kind of declare can't from the get-go.

Stephanie Shafer 9:38

Yeah. That's really good. Um so thinking practically, if someone is like, even me as I'm thinking through, oh, have I really been present at all the ball games? Or have I been on my phone? Well, he's not playing right now, so I can I can check my email. I can follow up on things that didn't fall through the cracks. Um, and so as parents, as leaders, I really like how you said um it's not about doing less. Because that that really is the go-to. I think, okay, what can I cut out of my life so I can do this more important thing or be more present. Um so instead of uh sitting in that and maybe shaming ourselves or yeah, I've messed up one more time. Why do I even keep trying? Um, where do you go? So how do we practically get the right mindset?

Stop Doing Less Start Integrating

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Yeah, so one of them, one of the chapters in there is making anything a date. And that should probably be my first chapter. It doesn't end up being a later chapter. It's not intended to uh its position in the book is not uh it is not a declaration of an order of importance. But um spending time with your spouse is really, really important. Uh and it that that should be really, really obvious. But it's kind of like those other things that uh I mentioned. We know that they matter, we know that we should do them, we know that we would enjoy them. But we, according to calendar, according to the time allocations, kind of don't. Uh we don't really make them matter. We don't have them be out front. They're kind of they get the dregs. They uh we'll figure out a time to go and do a date. And we hear so many times that that that wise counsel when we get married, make sure that you date your spouse. Continue to date your spouse. Yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. We'll go out sometimes, we'll go get dinner. Or then we declare, okay, if we're gonna do a date, it has to be something special. Everything has to have a diamond on it. You need to get dressed up if it's if it matters. And I those things are cool, they're good, they're special. Not trying to cheapen dating, but if you're going to go to a soccer match, can you sit where uh other people aren't and put your camping chairs as close together as they possibly can be, hold hands and talk to one another while your kids are out there playing? Hopefully, some you know quality sports entertainment. Maybe they're falling over each other in the ball. But does everything have to be a separate event to count? And I argue no. Can you count a soccer game as a date? I would say yes. Sure, it's not quite the same as going out to dinner and dressing up and you know going downtown, whatever it is. Do those things too. But as you're not able to do them because you have all the other things, you if if that's the approach, that it has to be this way, man, there's so many daily opportunities to I I would even take out of the air quotes of date, yet sometimes we'll say quote unquote date, and somebody might be listening right now and say, that is not a date, and that's fine. But spending time with your spouse is the point, not getting dressed up and having a nice dinner. And so can those moments be integrated and and enjoy one another in spaces that don't look like a date setting, but what if what if we made them so?

Stephanie Shafer 13:36

I love that because it's taking away the barriers. Well, we don't have money in the budget right now, or we can only go on a date, you know, um, not just the dressing up. And that to me spills over in how often are we present with friends or people we might be wanting to invite to the church or visitors or different people inviting to our home um to spend time and fellowship with. But well, our house isn't clean, or we don't have the moment. And so we can come up with excuses in a in a lot of them, and then yeah, I think the farther you push things away, then the easier it is to just keep forgetting um and not have it. But I really love the rhythm integrating it into your rhythm of daily life, and so all the things, whether it's dating your spouse. Um yeah, I love that. That's some really good wisdom and some practical um things that yeah, so write that down. If you're listening and that speaks to you, put it on a sticky note. Incorporating. Um, and to me, I think that does answer the question I started with. Um takes away that the shame of well, here's another thing I didn't do, and not focusing on that, but yeah, the rhythm of the of the

Turn Ordinary Moments Into Dates

Stephanie Shafer 14:49

daily life. Um all right, so where do you see leaders get this wrong the most, especially those who generally want to lead well and love their families well?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, you know, in in education a lot, I think in a lot of areas, we like to lead with measurement. How do you know you're doing a good job? What's your bottom line? What's how what's your what are your key performance indicators? And uh putting numbers on things matters. Um but they're not the only way of assessment. Uh one of the most poignant, I think, assessments is the spouse test. When you ask a leader how you're doing, and that leader says, Hey, here's all the KPIs, hey, here's how I'm feeling, here's how our team is doing. And those things could be true. Then you ask the spouse, hey, how's this person doing? How are you experiencing this person? Do you experience this person or do you experience the performance? And you can thin slice that just like Malcolm Blab will talk about thin slicing. You can you can know the story pretty quickly and and have your assessment. Maybe not the entirety, but you can know if something's missing, and if that something that's missing is the whole person.

Stephanie Shafer 16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Experience with the person who should be the most special and should be getting the best of that person. And you can do the same with kids. And if the kids lead with, and you know, sometimes we we do have to be careful in education. Uh, sometimes something gains something and loses something on the way home, and what actually happened in the classroom and uh what was said and what wasn't said, and that's that's fine. And uh, you know, different different points students are developing and they think about things uh forward of they'll have things forward in their mind that aren't necessarily what we we want them to concentrate on. But if they lead with pretty consistently, dad's not around, or hey, when I ask dad, how was your day, and he says pretty consistently, productive, all right. What is most important? What is the message that is communicated? The message is a good day is one that is productive. Um what if we did nothing all day except for watch a movie, make some paper airplanes, and eat some cookies. If you asked your kids about that day later in life, later that week, later maybe on a year later, they might say, you know what? One of my favorite days was when we had dad with us. We felt that he was with us. We laughed, and the word productive or the me any measurement of productivity did not come up. Is that a day wasted? No. We would all say very quickly, no, but again, what what is forward in how we are spending our days? How what does our calendar say matters? And I I would say as far as calendars, calendars aren't a bad thing. Uh calendar apps aren't a bad thing. We should put down our phone and not always count on our reminders all the time. But it can be a good thing to put on the calendar I'm not available for other things, for productive things. I'm out. Why? What are you doing? Done uh maybe nothing. And maybe nothing is exactly what I should be doing right now.

Stephanie Shafer 19:15

That's good. And resting and abiding in the Lord. Um we talk about that a lot at North Star. What does it mean to truly truly rest? Not taking a nap. I mean, naps are good, you can, but your mind resting and abiding and being led by the Holy Spirit, I think that's truly the only way that we can follow you know everything we've talked about here and and be present.

The Spouse Test For Leaders

Stephanie Shafer 19:42

Um so at your school, um, how are you intentionally building in time for your people to arrest, um, abide and be present at the campus, but also, you know, have time to be present at family with family and all the other things the Lord is using them for?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah, I as far as rest, uh I want to lead with that's the first thing that the Lord invites and provides for us after the creation of mankind. Like the next day in the Genesis account is a day of rest. We also we like to lead with hey, work isn't a bad thing because work was created before sin. Yep, uh for sure. But work wasn't created first. Like the first thing that we're invited into is rest.

Stephanie Shafer 20:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Um and it is also a good thing, the thing that we should do. And we pretend like it's not, and pretend like we are being more faithful if we work harder and all the time. And at the same time, we will say family first, family forward, let's be family oriented, let's be pro-family. And as far as calendar, a lot of times with especially with school, I know I'm in that world and others might uh say that too. Hey, it's even more so or equally so in in other fields. We don't operate that way. We say things like, well, you get your summers off. You get all these breaks. And I want to quickly put that to bed, if I may, with the word with the number 2160, 2,160 hours is the average number of hours that teachers work every year, even with their breaks, which, if you're doing some quick math, is four more weeks than the standard hour uh full time 2,000 hours and with a two week vacation that we consider full time. Here in the U.S. So even with all the breaks and summers off, our teachers on average are working four more weeks a year in order to deliver on this quality education to which we're so committed. And so when we look at that, we look at uh Silicon Valley of unlimited PTO and that experiment, but realizing that when even when that's on paper, people began to take fewer days and rest less, what were the things that were inhibiting good rest? And number one thing is a culture of rest being a good thing. And in Christian culture, rest being a mandate and agreeing with God that He is God and that the good work will continue, the world will continue, even if we don't continue working all the time.

Stephanie Shafer 22:57

Yeah. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

And then when we say family forward and family first, then there should be a culture of, hey, there's donuts with dads coming up. Okay. And there shouldn't be a question of, man, I, you know, I just have to let that go because that's during the school day and I don't want to cost the school money. No. What is the cost of you not being there? This work will continue, and there's no question that you are doing good work. You need to be dad first. So it's not a uh, hey, should I? No. It's why aren't you there with your kid? And then here are the system parameters that allow for you to do that. Here's how you put in for that time, here's how you consider others around you, yet it's not willy-nilly and just be gone all the time. No, you have personal days built in as teachers, you have personal days built in as administrators, and the expectation is that you use them. And they are going to go away if you don't, not because we're trying to save money later on with deferred uh accountability or uh it's or a deferred liability. We are trying to make sure that you live well with rhythms of rest and be fully present and with vacation time similar. Um and then we said, you know, there's also this pretty biblical thing of uh of sabbaticals, of this rhythm of every seven years taking a little bit more extended time and not being present for the work and all the work people and having that be protected because you sometimes, and I I I say this a lot of and I do mean it, it doesn't always sit well with everybody, but my favorite way to be Christ-like is to go away. I there's obviously more to that, and more to his work and more to his presence. But he went away a lot. And you have you have to go away to be fully present, to go away to be with the Father, to be rejuvenated. We're pouring ourselves out all the time, and it's not just this productivity thing, but our whole person is expected in our whole persona sometimes is that creative persona is expected in school context. And we don't really know, and it's hard to measure how much, even though it feels life-giving and can be, it's also life training. And so when we understand that, we understand the science of it, the psychology of it, it behooves us, and it is a demonstration, a response, a faithful response to the finished work of Christ. It's a good and right response to his finished work to say, oh yeah, you are God. And we are not. And then how do we integrate rest in there, not just for rest's sake, but man, what are we seeing in that? If you if you want to get to the the KPIs, okay, now we have under 1% uh turnover. Well, people want to stay. That's one of our best problems right now.

Stephanie Shafer 26:38

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

And they know that they can. They can bring their whole self because we see them and we know that and they they know in in very tangible ways that family, we're family forward. We're personhood forward. If we say for our students, we are, and if we if we declare that Christ showed up to restore personhood, to write a new story of who and whose we are, and then performance follows that, then we we have to get those right for our people too.

Rest As A School Culture

Stephanie Shafer 27:15

It's really good. Life-giving at your school. Um how do you make sure that it's not just words or you're expecting other people, but then you kind of don't lead out? Because I know we can say a lot of stuff, we can put it even as mandates on paper, but then if the leader is not actually doing it, it'll be, you know, then people feel like they well, we don't really have freedom to do it.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah. Yeah. So uh back to that Silicon Valley experiment um with the unlimited PTO, uh, the culture of expectation is one, and then the immediate manager, if if the if the employee does not perceive that his or her direct manager wants, expects, and gives permission for them to take a break, they won't take it. Even if HR on paper supports it, hey, you you gave me this benefit, I can take it. Here, I'm following all the parameters. They won't unless there is not this expectation. So I go around sometimes turning off lights and say, hey, uh y'all, y'all getting out of here? And uh, yeah. And then that's reciprocated. Like, hey, are you taking a break? Hey, are you getting out of here? Hey, uh, I I notice your eyes are a little bit glassy or you getting rest. Uh hey, um there is it, they're not our values unless everybody is living them out and expecting them of one another. Yeah. And and when that and when people know, then not only do they have permission, but there's an expectation, and then they're expecting it back to me, yeah, then that's permeating.

Stephanie Shafer 29:06

Yeah, that's good. Checking on one another, that accountability and really um really caring.

Leaders Must Model The Values

Stephanie Shafer 29:14

All right. How has your understanding of presence shaped the way you think about education and student formation?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah. Ma'am, um, I I do want to say again, with uh figuring things out, there's um there is still in me uh a performance orientation. I am I'm wired that way, and I can be very self-critical, and I can tell you stories very quickly of where I haven't gotten it right. And so uh I just want to recognize that. I do also I've learned along the way, and I've learned through parenting, that uh we are all on our way. There is not the we would love to say, in some ways, that at the end of everybody's time at Covenant Christian High School, they are uh Christian A plus, ready for heaven, uh going on conquering the world, uh they got the GPA, all the W's, all the you know, all the things, all the applause. And there's a lot of that. There's a whole lot of that. But if our students have all these performance measurements, they're making the grade, getting the applause, getting the W's, getting into the right colleges, getting the right careers, all the things, and having having these measurements of success. And inside they are not desiring of and demonstrating fruits from a relationship with Jesus, a permeating, transformative, mind-transforming, heart-transforming relationship with Jesus, then all the other stuff, and Paul declares it too, it really doesn't matter. It's we're not earning our way to heaven. And it's not just about, you know, getting to heaven. Hey, uh declare it, accept it, move on, then do good work, and then we'll check back with you once you get to the gates. It Jesus said, I came that you might have life and life abundant on earth as it is in heaven. Let's pursue the kingdom and in kingdom work and in kingdom pursuit. Man, let's let's pursue the flourishing of personhood. And then all these things will be added. As Paul says, run in such a way as to get the prize. But he also says, only one will get the prize. Okay, well, if only one gets the prize, I guess I shouldn't even try it. No, the in such a way is what matters. Bring your whole self, whether you're sitting there holding hands at a soccer game, whether you're having a conversation about why grades matter and and how they they do and don't, uh, if you're having a conversation about uh, you know, reading a psalm together as a family, if you're watching a movie and uh finding permeation of truth and goodness and beauty in there, even if it's like, wait a second, James Bond, how is that redemptive? I don't know. Uh okay, well, let's let's talk about that. Your whole self, Christ's dominion in all things, that's that's the pursuit. And so how when when we approach our students now, man, if we don't see them for who and whose they are, we're celebrating mostly like what they've done and what they're gonna do. Uh we're probably missing it.

Stephanie Shafer 33:06

For sure. Love that. Love how you have to pray through it. Obviously, listening to the Holy Spirit and yeah, living it out, walking it out and and your culture at the school exemplifies that, you know, and people see it. So that's yeah, it's incredible. And I'm kind of slowing down, stopping and pausing. Not just moving on to another question, because this is this is it. And as school leaders, teachers, whoever we are, parents, um, this is our job, and we don't want to miss it. We can't afford to miss it.

Student Formation Beyond Performance

Stephanie Shafer 33:50

So on that, we need to think about students today. What is the most important need from adults that are leading them? If you could boil it down to one practical thing on a maybe on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Well, it's uh an interesting thing to eat the soup, you know, eat your own cooking. Uh I've I've been in this role for a while, and it's a whole lot easier to coach other people. It's another thing to be a parent of a freshman uh as I am this year, and see, oh, uh, why do we fill that out for when? And who does I go to? And uh and then, ooh, uh grades. Hmm. Now I'm having a conversation with somebody who lives in my house about this. Uh, did I mean that? Hmm. Uh so everything gets tested. Um you know, there's some practicalities that we get excited about. I am I'm excited about scholarships. I'm a tuition-paying parent. And if if my kid you know makes the grade and gets into a particular college and uh gets off the the uh household payroll, it uh that's that's great. You know, uh what uh what would it look like to increase the cash flow? Um but man, those cannot be those can cannot be ultimate. Um keeping in mind that we are all on our way. Keeping in mind that we even even as experts in the field, we might know things, but knowing the things isn't the same as delighting in learning. Knowing the things isn't the same as uh being comfortable and and and delighting in and being on our way. Um counting on that third-party magic of, hey, I might know things, but it's not it it doesn't have to be this enmity thing with with with our students of, oh well, my kid, so I'm gonna be dumb for the next four years. I don't, you know, I'm gonna lose some of my IQ because that's just how it goes. It doesn't have to be that way. You can still be in really great relationship and still need third parties to share those same truths and and they they sink in, they're heard differently, they're perceived better by coaches, by directors of programs and other friends, and and to really listen. To really listen. Uh we are we are with our kids, we're gonna be very similar, and we are uh gonna be very, very different in if we're trying to make them us or to perform like us, or even scared that they might be like us when we were kids, um, we might be we might uh unwittingly be declaring that again that uh Christ isn't Lord. And so, man, if we're if we're trying to do it, if we're trying to get the job done and not leaning on the Spirit and inviting uh that work in our hearts and minds and their hearts and minds, that's really where it is. And that that might sound all kinds of fluffy and immeasurable. And um Jesus says, seek first the kingdom, not our performance, not the story we have written, what we want from our kids and uh and and for our kids, and what we want them to do. Um man, to delight in his goodness, to delight in his truth, to delight in his dominion, to delight in learning, then all these things will be added.

Stephanie Shafer 37:42

So good. Super encouraging and motivating. Um yeah, thank you for sharing.

Advice For Spouses And Fathers

Stephanie Shafer 37:49

And just a father's um, husband's the book again is walking slowly, being a present husband and father in a high demand world. So if we've got any listening, um, or even to spouses um to wives, how would you encourage wives to help their husbands slow down? Um and then to fathers, anything you would want to leave them with?

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Yeah, thank you. So uh I do think it the the book can be helpful to uh and apply to um uh moms uh who are also leaders um outside of the home and um in various contexts. Uh I would I would encourage you to not use any text really as a gotcha of uh see this is how you should be living, or see this is you know how uh this is this is um how you should change. But for both, I'm hopeful that it is a helpful tool to draw in to closer proximity, to see one another, to have conversations. Uh the each chapter is set up as not me having things figured out, but here are some stories, here's some applications, some anecdotes to invite into renewed perspective about our everyday and how we can be uh more fully present. And then there's some questions at the end, just some reflection questions that maybe you can ask those things together, ask those questions of one another together. Ask those questions as a family, and and hopefully not as a assessment and management, but for good conversation, for better presence. Um, we are all on our way. Again, we are all on our way. And if you're gonna try to read a book and and then just have a check mark and say, okay, now I figured this out, and I have these these 10 easy steps and done, and I'm more present. Um where if you're if you're looking at it and say, oh man, I'm not doing that well, and this is how I'm gonna beat myself up about, no, it's not, it's not that either. Um it's an invitation into a better conversation to know that we're not alone. Um yeah, a lot of people have have read it and have said, okay, I I see myself um and and these things are helpful. This is this is this is our experience, then cool. Um, then the Lord is working.

Stephanie Shafer 40:35

Yeah. Thank you for writing it. Thank you for um yeah, just being brave and and saying we don't have it all together. And so yeah, sets people free. And yeah, I'm excited to just put some of this into practicality. This conversation has helped me want to slow, slow down. We're you know, we know we talk about it all the time, but it's like this constant reminder. Okay, let's slow down. And then maybe we maybe the question for us tonight those listening and me, okay, spouse, husband, Charlie, how are you experiencing me?

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I I so appreciate being able to uh share about it and thank you for being interested in it. I I'm hopeful that it is helpful to to many. I hopeful that I'm I'm living it out. Um but I had fun writing it, and um I will say ironically, I I did write it in the margins as I'm sitting at soccer practices and uh when I'm thinking about things late at night. And so um I if if you're curious, how did you find time to write a book about being more present? I took some time on my own when others weren't around. Um, but I kind of doing the thing of choosing to sit and just just crank it out and put those those thoughts in.

Stephanie Shafer 41:59

I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you for doing that, sharing it with the world. All right. Well, thank you for joining us today. It really has been an incredible, incredible moment.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Stephanie, thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Listener Questions And Subscribe

Stephanie Shafer 42:12

Thank you so much for listening today. If you have any questions for our guest or like information about North Star, please email us at podcast at nsa.school. We love having guests on our show and getting to hear their stories. If you have anyone in mind that you think would be a great guest to feature, please email us and let us know. And don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss out on upcoming stories.

unknown 42:38

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