139 - This I know to be true: It costs more (and hurts more) to deal with legal problems in your business than to prevent them from occurring in the first place. That's why Rachel Brenke of TheLawTog encourages you to get your legal pups in a row as soon as possible.
This week, Rachel shares the elements you need in place to cover your bases. We discuss a few what-if scenarios, grumble about insurance companies, and explore the psychology of client confidence.
What To Listen For:
As a Hair of the Dog listener, you'll save 10% off any of The LawTog’s photography-specific contracts—just use the code HAIROFDOG10. Protect yourself legally and keep some cash in your pocket? Winner winner, chicken dinner!
Resources From This Episode:
JOIN THE PARTY:
139 - This I know to be true: It costs more (and hurts more) to deal with legal problems in your business than to prevent them from occurring in the first place. That's why Rachel Brenke of TheLawTog encourages you to get your legal pups in a row as soon as possible.
This week, Rachel shares the elements you need in place to cover your bases. We discuss a few what-if scenarios, grumble about insurance companies, and explore the psychology of client confidence.
What To Listen For:
As a Hair of the Dog listener, you'll save 10% off any of The LawTog’s photography-specific contracts—just use the code HAIROFDOG10. Protect yourself legally and keep some cash in your pocket? Winner winner, chicken dinner!
Resources From This Episode:
JOIN THE PARTY:
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Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast on your hosts,
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Nicole Begley.
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And today we are talking about the trifecta of legal protection
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for your business contracts,
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insurance liability,
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and more with none other than Rachel Brenke from the Lawtog.
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stay tuned.
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Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast.
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If you're a pet photographer,
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ready to make more money and start living a life by
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your design,
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you've come to the right place.
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And now your host,pet
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photographer, travel addict,
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chocolate martini connoisseur,
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Nicole Begley.
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Hey everybody,
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Nicole here from hair of the dog podcast.
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And today I have an incredible guest for you.
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None other than Rachel Brenke from the LawTog.
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Talk the one,
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the only welcome Rachel to the podcast.
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Thanks for having me.
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Of course,
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of course.
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So great to have you here because you know,
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legal stuff is super important,
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even though people would rather just focus on taking pretty pictures.
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I know.
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I know,
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but you know what I love about this besides I love
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your podcasts and your community.
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I love,
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I love dogs.
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So I was so excited.
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And when I checked my calendar again today,
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I was like,
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oh, I get to talk to Nicole and we get to
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talk about dogs.
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This is like my dream for a Friday.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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All the puppies.
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Woo. Oh my goodness.
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For sure.
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So yeah,
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so my community is you,
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as you know,
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we have pet photographers of all of all.
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Gosh, what's the word I'm looking for?
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See it's Friday.
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My brain's already not working.
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This is Trouble Levels.
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Just dog.
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Yeah. That's for sure.
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But yeah.
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So there are some people that are doing this as a
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hobby that are maybe just like taking pictures for rescues.
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There are some people that are like,
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oh man,
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this could actually be a thing.
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So they're starting to do portfolio building and then there's some
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building their business.
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And then of course there are those in business and we
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know that legal protection super important.
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But what is your recommendation?
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I know I have mine,
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but I'd love to hear it from yours of one.
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They need to have a contract.
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Like, do you have to wait until you start your business?
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Or should you have that in place?
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Yeah. I love this question and I'll try not to be
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like super law professor long-winded on it.
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But the sooner that you can plan for having the legal
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stuff in place,
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the better off that you will be.
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I, you know,
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I always share,
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you know,
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that it's cheaper and easier to prevent issues than it is
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to clean it up.
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And it's so incredibly true,
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you know?
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Cause I hear,
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and I see the stress and clients that come to me
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after an issue has happened because let's take the contract.
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For example,
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not only would you,
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you know,
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in, in the beginning I get it right.
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Where many of us are bootstrapping business.
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When you first start out,
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you're not even sure if you're going to be able to
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make a go at it.
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So you're like,
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Ooh, I don't want to invest a lot.
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But if you end up having a problem,
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you're going to end up paying to fix the problem and
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for the contract that you should've had in the first place.
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So you're going to end up paying for it at some
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point. So yeah,
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the sooner that you can get like legal contracts in place
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and there's the three main ones really,
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I call them the essentials is like your services contract.
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So it's between you and client model release.
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If you're going to have humans in the photos or kind
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of property release for animals or pets,
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really, and then print release,
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if you have digital files or those are really the three
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core ones that you should focus on getting now,
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keep in mind,
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we're in a fairly unregulated industry.
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There's very low barrier to entry,
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which is actually kind of a good thing.
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Cause then we get to choose where our money goes,
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right when we're investing in setting up.
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So contracts is the one piece.
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I always try to look at it as like a triangle
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that's one corner of the triangle.
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The other two would be liability insurance and proper legal entity
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set up.
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So either like LLC or corporation,
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FYI I'm US-based so I'll be using terms on the podcast,
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but yeah,
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ultimately those are the three key starting points that I really,
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really encourage,
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especially pet photographers to get under your belt,
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get in your legal toolkit when you're starting out.
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If you can't or very quickly,
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you know,
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I know you gotta,
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you gotta do business to get some money to get this
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stuff going sometimes.
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So as quick as you can make that goal happen.
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Yeah. No,
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that totally makes sense.
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And I think a lot of people might be under the
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false impression that,
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oh, well I created an LLC,
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so therefore I have this legal separation,
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so I wouldn't really need contracts because I'm protected.
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Right? Yeah.
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And you know,
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and the thing is,
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I want you to kind of picture the three things.
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We just mentioned,
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insurance, the entity.
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So like LLC and contracts,
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it's like hurdles between you and your clients.
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And we want to try to put as much like installation
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hurdles between us and any potential issues cause contracts and awful
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approved LLC is not foolproof.
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Insurance is not full-proof.
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That's why we have their client,
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three of them that work together.
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But I,
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it now here's the funny thing is I always get asked
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what, what do I have to do to be illegal business?
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And actually none of those three things I just mentioned is
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what's legally required.
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This is what I'm legally recommending.
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So like legal,
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legally required things,
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which really would be your first step is probably going to
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be a permit or license depending on your jurisdiction,
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whether it's city or county.
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And that's really in paying your taxes.
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Of course,
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if you reach that threshold,
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those are the two legal requirements.
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But the three of this triad,
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this triangle of insurance contracts and entity choice are what I
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highly recommend as a minimum,
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even though it's not legally required.
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Yeah, yeah,
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absolutely. For sure.
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So with those contracts,
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what kind of pieces,
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I mean definitely the services,
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the model,
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property release per release.
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Can you put those all kind of in one big contract,
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you have to have your client.
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I think people might hear that and like,
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oh my God,
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I have to have my client sign 37 things.
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It's too much Before we answer that.
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I, I want us to kind of like shift our mind,
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not just from these being legal tools,
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but I love having contracts as expectation setting tools,
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right? We want our clients to know what to expect.
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And the more information,
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the more you equip your clients with information increases their buyer's
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confidence. It's a whole psychology thing.
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And most people don't think that,
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oh, contracts will increase like a client psychology.
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They'll have more confidence in you.
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They'll perceive you as more professional.
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They'll have more confidence in you,
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your abilities,
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whether they caught,
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you know,
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whether they verbally say that or cognitively think it it's an
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underlying, but it also sets that expectation.
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So really,
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really important now to answer your question.
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So hopefully that allayed some concerns You can fold together,
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your services contract in your model release.
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Now that's a suit or property release.
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That's assuming for model.
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If you're going to have humans in the photos as well,
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you probably could fold it all together.
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Oftentimes I recommend breaking it out.
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Especially if you are photographing a session or an event with
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multiple people in it,
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it just is easier for model releases to be executed when
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they're separate.
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And sometimes your clients don't even want to have,
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you know,
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their face.
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Maybe they can't do the profession or something on the internet
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when it comes to like prep property.
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I hate calling the animals products,
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Even Though legally,
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they are,
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There are no they're my babies.
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My kids always say,
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who's your favorite child.
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Don't make me answer that Shepherd mix.
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Well, yeah,
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you know,
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you could,
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I could readily see folding the property release in services contracts
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so that you can have one single Wheeler,
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one for your clients to sign.
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But you know,
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honestly with the use of these online CRMs,
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digital signing tools,
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even if they're broken out,
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it's really streamlined.
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It's we're way past the days of sending a dot doc
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or PDF,
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or they have to go print it,
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hunt down,
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printer, ink,
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scan it,
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send it back.
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So, you know,
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you can,
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you can have them together,
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but I really suggest kind of breaking them out separately just
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because they have their own different intentions.
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Like the services contract regulates the session itself,
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it creates the legal relationship.
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Whereas the model or property release is,
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is the client giving you permission for the use of either
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the human face or the in the pet space,
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in your marketing and for your promotion of your business.
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So they have two distinct purposes.
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Bottom line answer.
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You can put them together.
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I typically recommend breaking them out.
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Yeah. All right.
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That's perfect.
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Speaking of the ease of these CRMs and signing,
266
00:08:41,090 --> 00:08:44,300
I know I hear questions still periodically on if that is
267
00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:45,500
legally binding.
268
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,230
So do you want to fill them in on that?
269
00:08:48,230 --> 00:08:49,040
Yeah. Yeah.
270
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:49,280
You know,
271
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:50,120
what's great about this.
272
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:50,720
I mean we,
273
00:08:50,930 --> 00:08:51,890
today alone,
274
00:08:51,890 --> 00:08:53,660
if you have loaded an app on your phone,
275
00:08:53,660 --> 00:08:54,890
you've probably already signed four.
276
00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,730
Yes. I accept all terms and conditions.
277
00:09:01,380 --> 00:09:02,850
I don't read that junk either.
278
00:09:02,850 --> 00:09:03,330
I'm just like,
279
00:09:03,340 --> 00:09:04,410
I'll figure it out later.
280
00:09:05,610 --> 00:09:06,870
But that being said,
281
00:09:06,870 --> 00:09:10,860
yeah, we have e-sign act here in the us digital contracts,
282
00:09:10,890 --> 00:09:12,810
signatures are readily accepted.
283
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,520
The things that I would look for,
284
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,340
if you're going to use an online contract signing system and
285
00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:18,150
most of them,
286
00:09:18,180 --> 00:09:19,140
or, you know,
287
00:09:19,170 --> 00:09:21,810
incompliance within some of these formalities,
288
00:09:21,870 --> 00:09:23,640
I always like to look forward to,
289
00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:25,380
is there ever going to be a question as to who
290
00:09:25,380 --> 00:09:26,310
signed the contract?
291
00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:27,960
Like if I have to stand in front of a judge
292
00:09:28,210 --> 00:09:32,130
and prove that someone signed the contract so that we could
293
00:09:32,220 --> 00:09:33,690
enforce that contract against them,
294
00:09:33,870 --> 00:09:35,340
one of the things that I would need,
295
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,620
because if they're on the other side of the computer,
296
00:09:37,710 --> 00:09:40,080
right, I'm not necessarily going to see them signing it,
297
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:40,920
not going to know,
298
00:09:41,190 --> 00:09:43,170
having an actual signature like,
299
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,000
and I know it's not really actual,
300
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,090
it's a digital signature and they look nothing like our actual
301
00:09:48,090 --> 00:09:52,770
signatures, but having that as well as a timestamp in IP
302
00:09:52,770 --> 00:09:54,990
address that many systems,
303
00:09:54,990 --> 00:09:58,740
once you save once the form or the contract is submitted,
304
00:09:58,740 --> 00:10:01,680
should have that included these aren't going to be the,
305
00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,840
be all and end all to prove who actually did it.
306
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:04,710
But it's just evidence.
307
00:10:04,710 --> 00:10:06,540
We would look to if there was ever a question as
308
00:10:06,540 --> 00:10:07,470
to who signed it.
309
00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:09,840
So use digital contracts with confidence,
310
00:10:09,870 --> 00:10:11,880
this, this issue that I just brought up,
311
00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:14,160
I've only ever had dealt with it once in the courtroom.
312
00:10:14,190 --> 00:10:15,360
And it was so quick,
313
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,400
just I went through the three things I just mentioned.
314
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:18,300
And then the judge was like,
315
00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:18,810
okay, good.
316
00:10:18,930 --> 00:10:20,910
He can use That next thing,
317
00:10:20,910 --> 00:10:21,270
move on.
318
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:23,640
But you never know.
319
00:10:24,340 --> 00:10:27,570
And especially if you have minor children and photographs,
320
00:10:27,570 --> 00:10:27,990
and I know,
321
00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:28,230
you know,
322
00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:28,770
with pets,
323
00:10:28,770 --> 00:10:32,160
you may or may not have family members in the photographs,
324
00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:36,060
or if you suspect there's any sort of potential,
325
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:37,770
this is more for like family photographers.
326
00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:41,250
But if there's like a custodial arrangement or you just get
327
00:10:41,250 --> 00:10:42,210
a hint of something,
328
00:10:42,210 --> 00:10:43,860
I just make sure you're on the up and up of
329
00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:45,000
proven, you know,
330
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:45,780
who signed,
331
00:10:45,780 --> 00:10:46,230
et cetera.
332
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:48,300
So if you ever need to enforce your contract,
333
00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:48,840
you can.
334
00:10:49,020 --> 00:10:49,710
Right. Right.
335
00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:50,160
Well, you know,
336
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,650
they have like joint custody of dogs sometimes now.
337
00:10:52,680 --> 00:11:00,300
So I won't take you to court for all your words.
338
00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:06,570
So keeping the dog Out can the house That's so funny.
339
00:11:06,870 --> 00:11:07,470
I love it.
340
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:10,470
So, yeah.
341
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:12,690
So with like pet photography,
342
00:11:12,690 --> 00:11:12,880
you know,
343
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,510
we there's these general things we usually have in these photography
344
00:11:15,510 --> 00:11:20,850
contracts, but are there specific things that pet photographers like really
345
00:11:20,850 --> 00:11:22,770
need to be cognizant of,
346
00:11:22,860 --> 00:11:23,220
you know,
347
00:11:23,220 --> 00:11:27,210
for contracts or things that could potentially go wrong that maybe
348
00:11:27,210 --> 00:11:29,610
wouldn't be an issue with some other genre.
349
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,740
Yeah. And I'm glad you asked this because I meant to
350
00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:32,730
say this earlier,
351
00:11:32,730 --> 00:11:33,000
you know,
352
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,430
looking at photography generally,
353
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:37,440
and I like to bring this forth in case there's some
354
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,250
people listening who may dabble in other niches of photography have
355
00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:43,620
photography is on kind of the list of what I think
356
00:11:43,620 --> 00:11:47,010
is a higher potential liability or working with animals.
357
00:11:47,010 --> 00:11:47,580
Point blank.
358
00:11:47,610 --> 00:11:49,800
There are Bellamy is my boy,
359
00:11:49,860 --> 00:11:51,030
but he's an animal,
360
00:11:51,060 --> 00:11:54,790
right? And so there is a level of that can happen.
361
00:11:55,510 --> 00:11:57,100
There's different levels of training,
362
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:58,450
non-trained dogs,
363
00:11:58,900 --> 00:12:00,190
situations, et cetera.
364
00:12:00,190 --> 00:12:04,360
So I do put pet photography in a category where you
365
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,730
need to look like the triangle we talked about earlier,
366
00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:11,590
but especially your contracts being mindful of asking the right questions
367
00:12:11,620 --> 00:12:12,850
to your clients.
368
00:12:12,850 --> 00:12:13,090
You know,
369
00:12:13,090 --> 00:12:14,740
so that's not really in the contract,
370
00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:15,610
but you could put like a,
371
00:12:15,610 --> 00:12:15,850
you know,
372
00:12:15,850 --> 00:12:18,040
a questionnaire to kind of ask them,
373
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,460
is there any like trigger for your dog training,
374
00:12:21,460 --> 00:12:22,240
et cetera,
375
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:22,690
what, you know,
376
00:12:22,690 --> 00:12:24,040
what works best for them.
377
00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:26,530
And then on the contract side of things,
378
00:12:26,530 --> 00:12:29,530
definitely want to have a requirement of notice.
379
00:12:29,530 --> 00:12:32,770
I know that some pet photographers want to have proof of
380
00:12:32,770 --> 00:12:34,630
vaccinations afford that there,
381
00:12:34,660 --> 00:12:38,260
the animals are up to date on vaccinations and you want
382
00:12:38,260 --> 00:12:42,550
to have like liability type of language in your contract.
383
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,860
So if there is some sort of harm that occurs to
384
00:12:44,860 --> 00:12:48,070
you or to the animal or anyone else in the session,
385
00:12:48,070 --> 00:12:48,370
and that's,
386
00:12:48,370 --> 00:12:52,570
especially if you're listening and you photograph animals that are not
387
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,110
pets, that's even more important because you may be renting a
388
00:12:56,110 --> 00:13:00,760
horse or bringing in an animal that is not owned by
389
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:01,690
your clients.
390
00:13:01,930 --> 00:13:05,110
That kind of liability piece is especially incredibly important in your
391
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:08,980
contracts. I'm trying to think of anything else.
392
00:13:09,310 --> 00:13:13,330
Actually, I have a question around that that was definitely an
393
00:13:13,540 --> 00:13:17,800
unusual situation of she's a friend of mine,
394
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:18,670
pet photographer,
395
00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:23,890
and her and her client were attacked by a dog,
396
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:25,720
not anything to do with the session,
397
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:28,900
like some other random person's dog at the session,
398
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:31,540
which is just crazy.
399
00:13:31,930 --> 00:13:32,800
Is that,
400
00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:33,790
I mean,
401
00:13:33,820 --> 00:13:38,800
does your general liability just protect you against,
402
00:13:38,980 --> 00:13:39,970
well, I guess I just,
403
00:13:39,970 --> 00:13:43,360
yeah. I like what happens in a situation like that,
404
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,940
other than just like everyone being completely mortified and like,
405
00:13:45,970 --> 00:13:46,420
oh my God,
406
00:13:46,420 --> 00:13:47,380
how the hell did this happen?
407
00:13:47,470 --> 00:13:47,920
I know,
408
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:48,520
I know he don't,
409
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:49,210
that's kind of one of the,
410
00:13:49,210 --> 00:13:51,190
I'm glad you brought this up because that is a good
411
00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:53,560
point to make that I can talk about all this liability
412
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:55,930
stuff, but let's say that I,
413
00:13:56,070 --> 00:13:57,910
I have a Belgium mal who,
414
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:58,330
by the way,
415
00:13:58,330 --> 00:13:59,680
is the biggest baby in the world.
416
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:01,300
Harry, Actually,
417
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:02,080
before he got on here,
418
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,640
I was eating lunch and he wouldn't leave me alone.
419
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,380
So I just put the broom next to me and he
420
00:14:05,380 --> 00:14:07,330
runs out of the room and he's never been,
421
00:14:07,340 --> 00:14:08,560
he's just scared of brooms.
422
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:10,570
That's all right.
423
00:14:10,570 --> 00:14:12,040
My horse doesn't like the rain.
424
00:14:12,070 --> 00:14:12,940
So, you know,
425
00:14:12,940 --> 00:14:13,570
there's that,
426
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:14,470
they're all weird.
427
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:16,270
I love how they have it.
428
00:14:16,450 --> 00:14:17,080
That's what I'm saying.
429
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:17,950
How are they property?
430
00:14:17,950 --> 00:14:18,220
They have,
431
00:14:19,540 --> 00:14:20,110
He tries,
432
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:21,550
he tries to hide under me.
433
00:14:21,550 --> 00:14:22,680
If I'm leading him in the rain,
434
00:14:22,690 --> 00:14:24,160
he tries to hide his head under me.
435
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:24,400
I'm like,
436
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,540
you're 1300 pounds.
437
00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:26,380
You won't fit.
438
00:14:28,270 --> 00:14:28,690
I love it.
439
00:14:28,690 --> 00:14:29,320
I love it.
440
00:14:30,460 --> 00:14:31,030
What was I gonna say?
441
00:14:31,060 --> 00:14:32,830
Oh, I bring up a ring up Coda,
442
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:33,610
the Belgium now.
443
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:34,030
Cause I'm like,
444
00:14:34,030 --> 00:14:35,560
if I take him and I go,
445
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:36,940
well, he won't do it.
446
00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:39,280
Any other mal maybe attack.
447
00:14:39,310 --> 00:14:42,460
Right? And I make a dog go attack my client,
448
00:14:42,460 --> 00:14:43,120
no client,
449
00:14:43,150 --> 00:14:45,340
no contract LLC.
450
00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:49,480
No insurance is going to is going to protect me there.
451
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,000
But like a situation you're talking about your general liability should
452
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,090
assist to help you the photographer and also the client.
453
00:14:56,090 --> 00:14:56,320
Cause that,
454
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,280
that was definitely something you didn't have control over.
455
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,050
And it was completely unrelated,
456
00:15:00,050 --> 00:15:00,950
like third party,
457
00:15:00,980 --> 00:15:02,480
but yet your liability insurance.
458
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:02,960
And this is,
459
00:15:03,050 --> 00:15:04,310
this is a really good point.
460
00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:07,370
This was on my list for us to talk about is
461
00:15:07,550 --> 00:15:08,900
when you calls,
462
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,200
since we're in this category of a higher liability,
463
00:15:12,980 --> 00:15:14,390
potential liability,
464
00:15:14,660 --> 00:15:16,400
when you call your insurance company,
465
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:17,630
make sure you're not just like,
466
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,580
I'm a photographer because they're going to think that you're just
467
00:15:19,580 --> 00:15:20,990
skipping around a park with,
468
00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:21,980
I don't know,
469
00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:22,880
balloons. Right?
470
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,070
You got to let them know that you have this added
471
00:15:25,070 --> 00:15:26,660
level of animals.
472
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,070
You've got what's in the mix.
473
00:15:28,070 --> 00:15:28,880
And just to make,
474
00:15:28,910 --> 00:15:31,820
because you don't want to find out after the fact that
475
00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:35,870
they're not wouldn't cover what you're doing in case they consider
476
00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:37,400
it also like a high liability,
477
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,320
high risk type of photography.
478
00:15:40,130 --> 00:15:41,810
You just ask the questions.
479
00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:42,380
I always say,
480
00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:46,310
call like two to three companies and there's verbally throw up
481
00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:47,960
everything that you're doing and be like,
482
00:15:48,620 --> 00:15:48,920
tell me,
483
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:49,730
can you cover me?
484
00:15:50,270 --> 00:15:50,960
Right. Right.
485
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,340
Right. Absolutely.
486
00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:54,620
And on that same liability,
487
00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:58,160
if you were at a session and you were bit by
488
00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:59,240
your client's dog,
489
00:15:59,870 --> 00:16:05,600
is that something that your liability insurance covers or like,
490
00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:07,840
do you get into like this weird place where your,
491
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,070
your health insurance is like you are working,
492
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,360
I'm not going to cover you?
493
00:16:11,750 --> 00:16:14,660
Or is that like your personal health insurance or what,
494
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:16,010
what happens in that case?
495
00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:19,970
I think you're going to have to look at your policy
496
00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:24,170
coverage, just see which insurance is going to apply.
497
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:27,620
Oftentimes in a situation like that liability insurance,
498
00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:30,800
we'll have it carved out to say your health insurance needs
499
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,300
to cover like the medical bills,
500
00:16:32,330 --> 00:16:33,500
but we'll help cover,
501
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:34,190
you know,
502
00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:34,640
X, Y,
503
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,210
and Z.
504
00:16:35,540 --> 00:16:36,560
Right? I do know.
505
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:37,100
And I know this,
506
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:40,730
unfortunately from when my dog was murdered,
507
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:47,720
that homeowner's policies could help to pay for attacks,
508
00:16:47,810 --> 00:16:48,560
et cetera,
509
00:16:48,770 --> 00:16:50,210
including legal fees,
510
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:51,950
medical bills.
511
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:53,840
Right. So you could always,
512
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,120
if you wanted to request that your,
513
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:56,420
you know,
514
00:16:56,420 --> 00:16:59,900
make, have your client make a claim to their homeowner's insurance
515
00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:01,970
policy to help cover you.
516
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:03,290
I wouldn't rely on that though,
517
00:17:03,290 --> 00:17:05,000
because not only is homeowners insurance,
518
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,440
you don't know if it'll be excluded.
519
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:07,490
So don't rely on that.
520
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:08,750
But just a thought,
521
00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:10,780
if you ever run into that sort of situation.
522
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:13,580
Well, and then the insurance companies always do their best to
523
00:17:13,580 --> 00:17:14,390
not pay.
524
00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:17,990
We got that for 'em when I,
525
00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:19,880
I broke my finger.
526
00:17:19,910 --> 00:17:22,100
So I had needed to have surgery last summer from said,
527
00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:22,730
baby horse.
528
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:23,630
That's scared of the rain.
529
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,110
And, and so then I get this thing,
530
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:27,680
like, you know,
531
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:28,670
after all this stuff,
532
00:17:28,670 --> 00:17:29,720
the insurance companies like,
533
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:31,310
oh, we just paid a lot of money to fix your
534
00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:33,500
finger. So I get this thing in the mail,
535
00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:33,920
just like,
536
00:17:33,950 --> 00:17:37,250
where did this happen on what property with whose things like
537
00:17:38,420 --> 00:17:42,080
with my horse that I own at the property that I
538
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,520
pay to keep him hat,
539
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:46,970
you're not going after.
540
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:48,410
Like the Barnes was like,
541
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:50,160
no, just my medical bill.
542
00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:52,800
They do that because they want to try to get the
543
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:53,610
money, you know,
544
00:17:53,610 --> 00:17:54,870
coming from another source.
545
00:17:55,380 --> 00:17:56,100
That's a good point.
546
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:58,320
Your liability insurance policy may,
547
00:17:58,350 --> 00:18:00,510
depending on the inclusions may say,
548
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,820
we need this information from your clients,
549
00:18:02,850 --> 00:18:03,540
et cetera.
550
00:18:03,780 --> 00:18:05,880
Yeah. It's a tricky situation when insurance,
551
00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:07,260
I freaking hate it.
552
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:09,540
I hate insurance company.
553
00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:13,140
I hate them hate to love them sometimes because I feel
554
00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:14,970
like it's a good piece of mind to have.
555
00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:17,550
And there's some companies that are really good and also depends
556
00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:18,960
on the claim than other times.
557
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,300
You have to fight like the devil in order to get
558
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:22,320
what you're legally owed.
559
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:23,160
And I hate that.
560
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:23,640
But anyways,
561
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:24,450
I digress on that.
562
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:25,290
I say all that to say,
563
00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:26,580
you see why I also,
564
00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:28,010
because I often hear back to,
565
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,570
we were talking about earlier many photographers go,
566
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:30,900
oh, well,
567
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:32,520
I'll just use my homeowner's policy.
568
00:18:33,060 --> 00:18:35,820
Oftentimes your business activities are excluded.
569
00:18:35,820 --> 00:18:37,200
So don't rely on that.
570
00:18:37,470 --> 00:18:40,620
But you insurance out of the three that we talked about,
571
00:18:40,650 --> 00:18:42,240
the LLC or corporation,
572
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,610
entity, contracts and insurance,
573
00:18:44,850 --> 00:18:46,410
I would rely on insurance.
574
00:18:46,410 --> 00:18:48,630
The least I would have it there because it is kind
575
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:48,990
of nice.
576
00:18:48,990 --> 00:18:50,310
If you run into a situation,
577
00:18:50,460 --> 00:18:52,800
you can pass a claim off to your insurance company,
578
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,800
even for maybe things I don't want to jump the gun
579
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:57,420
on copyright infringement stuff,
580
00:18:57,450 --> 00:19:00,450
but any legal claims sometimes they'll cover your attorney's fees.
581
00:19:01,260 --> 00:19:02,040
Well, it's true,
582
00:19:02,050 --> 00:19:02,300
but I,
583
00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:03,090
I wouldn't,
584
00:19:03,150 --> 00:19:06,960
I wouldn't hang my hat on insurance being number one and
585
00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:11,490
definitely don't operate as a sole proprietor would just liability insurance.
586
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:12,120
You're just,
587
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:15,120
you're looking at a lot of not being covered when you
588
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:15,510
need it.
589
00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:16,620
Right, right.
590
00:19:16,830 --> 00:19:17,460
Yeah, for sure.
591
00:19:17,460 --> 00:19:18,750
And the liability short.
592
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,370
So it's really not that expensive,
593
00:19:20,370 --> 00:19:21,960
even though we're at a higher risk of,
594
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,030
with the animals and things like that,
595
00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:27,810
it's usually a couple hundred dollars for a million dollars for
596
00:19:27,810 --> 00:19:28,200
the year.
597
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:33,000
So definitely a must a must have in your business,
598
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:33,750
in my opinion,
599
00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:34,320
for sure.
600
00:19:35,250 --> 00:19:36,630
Yes. All right.
601
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:38,430
Jumping back to contracts a little bit.
602
00:19:38,430 --> 00:19:42,690
There was another question that I see come up a lot
603
00:19:43,020 --> 00:19:44,250
in your Facebook group.
604
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,630
And some of my,
605
00:19:45,660 --> 00:19:48,480
some of my students had that question too about,
606
00:19:48,810 --> 00:19:50,250
is there anything in,
607
00:19:50,250 --> 00:19:51,180
because what we're doing is,
608
00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:51,390
you know,
609
00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:56,160
a custom service and about protecting a refund requests or,
610
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:57,060
you know,
611
00:19:57,060 --> 00:20:00,150
protecting chargebacks or things like that after the fact,
612
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,340
What can we do with that contractually?
613
00:20:03,690 --> 00:20:03,990
You know,
614
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:06,510
this is where we want to write into the contract.
615
00:20:06,570 --> 00:20:07,230
You are correct.
616
00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:09,390
It is a customized services.
617
00:20:09,390 --> 00:20:11,790
So it's even a bit more special and that has its
618
00:20:11,790 --> 00:20:14,130
own pluses and minuses to it.
619
00:20:14,130 --> 00:20:15,990
But contractually speaking,
620
00:20:16,140 --> 00:20:18,030
this is where we want to be very clear with the
621
00:20:18,030 --> 00:20:20,790
clients. This is what you're going to receive.
622
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,680
This is what my portfolio looks like.
623
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,110
This is what I can or cannot do will or will
624
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:26,340
not do in Photoshop.
625
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:26,880
You know,
626
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,850
what I'm willing to do with your dog at the session
627
00:20:29,850 --> 00:20:32,910
when I'm not willing to do setting the expectations is going
628
00:20:32,910 --> 00:20:35,550
to help to mitigate or prevent,
629
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:35,880
you know,
630
00:20:35,890 --> 00:20:36,870
these problems.
631
00:20:36,930 --> 00:20:41,700
But contractually definitely having in there about what the monies are
632
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:42,420
connected to.
633
00:20:42,420 --> 00:20:43,410
Like, for example,
634
00:20:43,410 --> 00:20:46,290
I recommend never considering a client,
635
00:20:46,290 --> 00:20:52,120
a client until you have that initial non-refundable payment plus the
636
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:53,080
contract signed.
637
00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:55,750
And so what is that connected to,
638
00:20:55,780 --> 00:21:01,150
is that connected to consultation time reserving the day prep,
639
00:21:01,210 --> 00:21:01,750
you know,
640
00:21:01,780 --> 00:21:02,650
acquisition of,
641
00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:07,120
of props or treats or whatever it is that's specific for
642
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:07,840
that session.
643
00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:10,960
And then any other payments keeping in mind,
644
00:21:10,990 --> 00:21:12,850
if there's like a cancellation later,
645
00:21:12,850 --> 00:21:15,880
you can't keep a hundred percent of what has been,
646
00:21:16,690 --> 00:21:18,490
you can't keep a hundred percent if you haven't rendered a
647
00:21:18,490 --> 00:21:19,150
hundred percent.
648
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,590
But that being said,
649
00:21:20,890 --> 00:21:23,080
we want to try to put language in there about no
650
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,900
refunds. It is customized services,
651
00:21:26,740 --> 00:21:27,880
everything that you can do.
652
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:28,360
And actually,
653
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:29,320
this is a really good point.
654
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,240
I never really thought about this until you just said that
655
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,070
about chargebacks having contracts in place helped to defend against chargebacks
656
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:37,270
rubbing one,
657
00:21:37,330 --> 00:21:38,710
and then having the right language,
658
00:21:38,740 --> 00:21:41,950
like I just mentioned on the initial non-refundable payment and that
659
00:21:41,950 --> 00:21:44,350
all payments are non-refundable,
660
00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:47,020
especially as the closer you get to session date,
661
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,880
I think the one good thing and correct me if I'm
662
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,990
wrong with this is I feel with portraiture versus like weddings
663
00:21:52,990 --> 00:21:57,040
or events you relatively could allow for reschedules.
664
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,570
Now, you don't want to go on your way to the
665
00:21:58,570 --> 00:22:00,730
session in a client being like,
666
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,410
Hey, I want to reschedule,
667
00:22:02,830 --> 00:22:04,510
I have a hang nail today.
668
00:22:04,510 --> 00:22:05,680
I just don't feel like it.
669
00:22:06,460 --> 00:22:07,270
Yeah, yeah.
670
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:08,140
But so,
671
00:22:08,140 --> 00:22:08,500
you know,
672
00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:11,470
it's not like a wedding where you fully booked off that
673
00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:14,560
day for a year and then you can't fill it the
674
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:15,730
closer he gets to the date.
675
00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:18,970
But so I say all that to say,
676
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,160
I'm kind of circling in my head about,
677
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:24,760
I think I feel pretty confident having in your contract about
678
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,470
read schedules or cancellations.
679
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:30,070
I wouldn't typically offer that to someone like that's a wedding
680
00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:32,170
that you have to book off or an evening type of
681
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,800
deal. But this way you're setting the expectation of,
682
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,720
if you try to reschedule under,
683
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,150
let's say four days before the session,
684
00:22:40,570 --> 00:22:42,340
that money needs to go to you because are you really
685
00:22:42,340 --> 00:22:44,470
going to be able to fill that spot with another client?
686
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:45,220
Probably not.
687
00:22:45,250 --> 00:22:47,980
And that's the kind of language that in a situation like
688
00:22:47,980 --> 00:22:51,700
that the credit card companies are going to look to on
689
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:52,330
the charge back,
690
00:22:52,330 --> 00:22:55,150
like, is this legit because you can't keep monies that you
691
00:22:55,150 --> 00:22:56,260
aren't rightfully owed.
692
00:22:56,350 --> 00:22:56,980
Does that make sense?
693
00:22:57,310 --> 00:22:57,880
It does.
694
00:22:57,910 --> 00:22:58,240
It does.
695
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,290
Does it matter if you call it a session fee or
696
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:03,580
retainer or a deposit,
697
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,790
I'm going to start charging people when they asked me this
698
00:23:06,790 --> 00:23:09,010
question and I'll be able to buy my own horse?
699
00:23:14,260 --> 00:23:15,400
No, I,
700
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:17,080
as soon as I said that a second ago,
701
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,730
about the initial payment I saw on your face,
702
00:23:20,750 --> 00:23:21,010
I said,
703
00:23:21,010 --> 00:23:22,210
yeah, that question's coming.
704
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,000
I am of the mindsets.
705
00:23:28,030 --> 00:23:30,250
The more that I litigate contracts.
706
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,400
And the more that this question comes up all the time,
707
00:23:34,090 --> 00:23:36,910
we want to be as concise and remove ambiguities as much
708
00:23:36,910 --> 00:23:37,600
as possible,
709
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:38,830
not just legally,
710
00:23:38,830 --> 00:23:39,730
but also,
711
00:23:39,730 --> 00:23:42,790
so clients don't feel like it's a moving target.
712
00:23:42,820 --> 00:23:44,110
So in this case,
713
00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:46,700
choosing between the word deposit or retainer,
714
00:23:46,700 --> 00:23:47,780
especially cause I speak,
715
00:23:47,810 --> 00:23:48,380
you know,
716
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,850
internationally, nationally,
717
00:23:49,850 --> 00:23:51,590
and it could vary by jurisdiction.
718
00:23:51,860 --> 00:23:52,250
I say,
719
00:23:52,250 --> 00:23:54,770
get rid of either of them call it a session fee.
720
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,310
I just use the term non-refundable initial payment and,
721
00:23:59,210 --> 00:23:59,480
you know,
722
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,290
define that and connect it to the very specific services that,
723
00:24:03,290 --> 00:24:05,570
and I just outlined it a couple of minutes ago.
724
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,700
So yeah,
725
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:10,580
this is the top question that I get and people go
726
00:24:10,580 --> 00:24:12,170
back and forth in groups and I'm like,
727
00:24:12,170 --> 00:24:13,610
dude, let's just take it off the table.
728
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,980
Like, let's remove the ambiguities.
729
00:24:16,220 --> 00:24:17,300
And I joked on a live,
730
00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:19,130
I did a couple of weeks ago at the law talk
731
00:24:19,130 --> 00:24:19,460
and I say,
732
00:24:19,490 --> 00:24:22,760
call it a circus fee for all I care so long
733
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,610
as you define it properly in Vern tracks.
734
00:24:25,820 --> 00:24:26,780
That's what that's,
735
00:24:26,810 --> 00:24:27,650
that's what matters.
736
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:28,640
Yeah. Yeah,
737
00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:29,270
for sure.
738
00:24:29,930 --> 00:24:32,480
Absolutely. And I think we're also,
739
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,050
it's helpful.
740
00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:33,590
I think too,
741
00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:35,150
as portrait photographers,
742
00:24:35,150 --> 00:24:35,930
most of our,
743
00:24:35,930 --> 00:24:36,710
for most of us,
744
00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:40,010
most of the money that clients pay is after,
745
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:42,170
after we're wrapped up and done.
746
00:24:42,170 --> 00:24:45,260
So at that point they've seen their images,
747
00:24:45,410 --> 00:24:47,030
they've placed an order,
748
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:47,660
you know,
749
00:24:47,660 --> 00:24:51,920
I think there are sometimes those few outliers periodically that they,
750
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:52,250
you know,
751
00:24:52,250 --> 00:24:53,300
have a really big order.
752
00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:54,350
And then all of a sudden they're like,
753
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,060
man, I got some buyer's regret.
754
00:24:56,090 --> 00:24:56,570
Oh my God,
755
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:58,250
did I really just spend $5,000
756
00:24:58,250 --> 00:25:04,010
on pictures of my dog Totally worth it.
757
00:25:04,340 --> 00:25:05,090
Of course.
758
00:25:06,050 --> 00:25:07,250
But like for stuff like that,
759
00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:09,170
I end up for just me personally.
760
00:25:09,170 --> 00:25:10,610
I just like,
761
00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:11,930
I cringe if somebody is like,
762
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:13,400
oh, they placed an order.
763
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:14,900
And I placed the whole big order today.
764
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:15,200
I'm like,
765
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:15,950
just, Just,
766
00:25:16,220 --> 00:25:17,630
Just wait a day or two.
767
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,090
I do have,
768
00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:22,250
I do have final sale language like that.
769
00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:24,260
They can sign off on with their order.
770
00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:25,640
And when you do that in the,
771
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,810
in the ordering session,
772
00:25:27,650 --> 00:25:31,000
it's, it helps to reduce ambiguities,
773
00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:31,460
you know,
774
00:25:31,490 --> 00:25:35,300
questions. And it also kind of really psychologically,
775
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:35,540
it's a,
776
00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:36,740
micro-commitment actually,
777
00:25:36,740 --> 00:25:39,200
it's an actual commitment micro micro-commitment,
778
00:25:39,210 --> 00:25:42,380
but it's really making the client understand that they are committed
779
00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:42,860
to that.
780
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,290
And that will also help you to it,
781
00:25:45,290 --> 00:25:45,530
you know,
782
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,380
in the situation where there's a chargeback or buyers or more.
783
00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:50,060
Now I say all that to say,
784
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:51,620
we've been talking about contracts.
785
00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:55,520
This doesn't mean you can't be client focused in how you
786
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:56,360
run your business.
787
00:25:56,420 --> 00:25:58,460
It's just as having the contracts,
788
00:25:58,610 --> 00:26:00,200
setting the expectations,
789
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:00,470
you know,
790
00:26:00,470 --> 00:26:03,380
using it to increase their confidence once you know,
791
00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:04,730
where you legally,
792
00:26:04,850 --> 00:26:08,060
what you're legally obligated to do or what the client's legally
793
00:26:08,060 --> 00:26:08,780
obligated to do,
794
00:26:08,930 --> 00:26:10,610
then you can offer customer service.
795
00:26:10,610 --> 00:26:12,350
So even if we look in this situation,
796
00:26:12,350 --> 00:26:13,010
you just mentioned,
797
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:13,760
I do,
798
00:26:13,820 --> 00:26:15,170
I spent $5,000
799
00:26:15,170 --> 00:26:18,890
on a coffee table book of my dog,
800
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:19,520
which I love.
801
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:20,960
And then my husband's like,
802
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,600
what? And I call you to cancel.
803
00:26:24,170 --> 00:26:26,930
Even if I had signed a final sale thing with you
804
00:26:26,930 --> 00:26:30,860
use the photographer can choose to say no,
805
00:26:31,250 --> 00:26:32,090
or yes.
806
00:26:32,330 --> 00:26:33,590
And even within that,
807
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:33,950
you can say,
808
00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:35,390
well, I already ordered the cause.
809
00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:35,780
You know,
810
00:26:35,780 --> 00:26:36,500
like you mentioned,
811
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:38,480
you might go home quickly to go order.
812
00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:40,280
And all of a sudden they're like,
813
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:40,640
oh no,
814
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:41,600
I want to adjust.
815
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:44,220
I just think having documents to put the clients have a
816
00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:46,230
little, like a little bit more skin in the game on
817
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:47,280
it. And,
818
00:26:47,310 --> 00:26:47,670
but again,
819
00:26:47,670 --> 00:26:50,130
you still can always offer customer service.
820
00:26:50,130 --> 00:26:52,320
You just need to know your legal foundation and then you
821
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,430
can go above and beyond.
822
00:26:53,850 --> 00:26:54,960
Yeah, that's a great point.
823
00:26:55,020 --> 00:26:56,910
Absolutely. Oh my gosh.
824
00:26:57,150 --> 00:26:58,110
So many good things.
825
00:26:58,140 --> 00:27:01,920
Oh, I have one more question that people had about contracts
826
00:27:01,950 --> 00:27:07,290
and that is if you're at a session and you know,
827
00:27:07,290 --> 00:27:10,410
sometimes there's owners that maybe it's,
828
00:27:10,490 --> 00:27:13,410
it's really few and far between because the people that are
829
00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:16,050
investing in pet photography treat their dog as family.
830
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,670
But on occasion,
831
00:27:17,790 --> 00:27:21,480
there are people that maybe are not treating their dog in
832
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,960
a manner that is in a way that we approve of,
833
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:26,730
you know,
834
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,770
and at what point do we have the power legal authority
835
00:27:31,770 --> 00:27:33,360
to be like outward done here?
836
00:27:33,390 --> 00:27:33,930
You know,
837
00:27:33,930 --> 00:27:35,190
like, no,
838
00:27:35,490 --> 00:27:36,720
I'm like if they are,
839
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,110
you know,
840
00:27:37,140 --> 00:27:39,630
hitting their dog or doing something and that's just like,
841
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:40,350
you know,
842
00:27:40,410 --> 00:27:42,540
not, not reasonable.
843
00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:46,830
So do you want my legal answer or what I would
844
00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:47,250
do with that?
845
00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:51,000
I guess I'm guessing if like,
846
00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:54,570
if we legally would we have the power to be like,
847
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,140
Hey, we're done.
848
00:27:55,140 --> 00:27:56,190
Here's your session feedback.
849
00:27:56,220 --> 00:27:57,030
Like, boom,
850
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,640
It's going to all be circumstance specific.
851
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:00,630
Right. You know,
852
00:28:00,630 --> 00:28:03,210
there's we use the vibrate callers.
853
00:28:03,210 --> 00:28:04,230
We don't use shock.
854
00:28:04,470 --> 00:28:06,960
Right. Sometimes I've had people in public.
855
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:07,200
They're like,
856
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:07,890
Hey guy,
857
00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:08,650
you shock hard.
858
00:28:08,650 --> 00:28:08,880
I'm like,
859
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,600
no. And actually we don't even have to use that at
860
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:13,680
all. Just putting it on him.
861
00:28:14,430 --> 00:28:16,140
He just doesn't like the vibrate I'm telling you is the
862
00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:18,420
biggest baby is in a situation like that.
863
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,820
It's just a conflict of opinion when it comes to tuning
864
00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:25,470
tools or is it like a true,
865
00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:26,940
full on abusive situation?
866
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,310
Those are kind of two ends of the spectrum and examples,
867
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:32,220
but it's going to be situation specific,
868
00:28:32,250 --> 00:28:34,650
honestly. So there's not like a clear cut answer on that.
869
00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:37,800
But I think that's one of those things that,
870
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,140
well, like we mentioned before,
871
00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:41,700
like in the intake process,
872
00:28:41,730 --> 00:28:46,080
if you are somebody that is a definite and tie,
873
00:28:46,170 --> 00:28:47,190
fibrate, callers,
874
00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:48,120
whatever they're called,
875
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:48,810
you know,
876
00:28:49,410 --> 00:28:52,020
that's something you need to say up front because once you're
877
00:28:52,020 --> 00:28:52,380
in there,
878
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:53,640
once you're in the session,
879
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,140
that's kind of hard to come back from.
880
00:28:55,140 --> 00:28:56,370
So there's things that are like,
881
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:59,370
and I'm not saying you have to say dog abusers need
882
00:28:59,370 --> 00:28:59,880
not apply.
883
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:00,990
I think that's kind of like,
884
00:29:02,050 --> 00:29:06,900
Right. But if there's some very specific things that you don't
885
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:10,140
necessarily condone that even though they may be popular as training
886
00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:11,010
tools, et cetera,
887
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:13,560
set that expectation up in the onboarding.
888
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,390
But then when you're in the situation,
889
00:29:15,390 --> 00:29:17,910
if it's either we can't w this is the thing we
890
00:29:17,910 --> 00:29:20,340
cannot prevent and contract away everything,
891
00:29:20,550 --> 00:29:24,150
right. So long as you have a paper trail and you
892
00:29:24,150 --> 00:29:25,650
have good common sense.
893
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:27,900
And what I would do,
894
00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:31,230
if you let's say they're hitting their dog after I've knocked
895
00:29:31,230 --> 00:29:31,620
them out,
896
00:29:31,650 --> 00:29:35,730
then I would go to my well,
897
00:29:35,730 --> 00:29:36,240
actually, I mean,
898
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,260
we joke in Jasper,
899
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,240
but like when my dog was stabbed,
900
00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:40,290
I was in such shock.
901
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,180
Like can't even freaking fathom.
902
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:44,440
It was horrendous.
903
00:29:44,530 --> 00:29:45,670
I couldn't do anything.
904
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:46,450
Like people always like,
905
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:47,200
oh, I'd kill them.
906
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:47,530
I'm like,
907
00:29:47,530 --> 00:29:49,150
you're in so much shock anyway.
908
00:29:49,540 --> 00:29:52,360
But what to my point is I would,
909
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,800
if you're going to end the session,
910
00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:56,290
cover yourself with a paper trail,
911
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,410
follow up an email to the client of saying,
912
00:29:59,740 --> 00:30:00,340
you know,
913
00:30:00,340 --> 00:30:00,940
S you know,
914
00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:03,880
session was ended early due to these circumstances and what the
915
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,080
next steps are going to be.
916
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,010
If there are any,
917
00:30:06,010 --> 00:30:07,240
maybe you're just going to refund,
918
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,640
whatever's going to happen because you don't,
919
00:30:09,700 --> 00:30:10,780
again, charge back.
920
00:30:10,780 --> 00:30:12,880
They could go home and try to call up visa and
921
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,360
say, well,
922
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:14,590
we didn't get our services.
923
00:30:14,830 --> 00:30:16,750
You need to be able to have proof.
924
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,150
And having that writing will help you.
925
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:22,900
Right. So that's not a clear cut.
926
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:23,950
What should we do?
927
00:30:24,190 --> 00:30:25,240
Type of situation.
928
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,450
Just be reasonable and good judgment.
929
00:30:28,660 --> 00:30:29,410
Yeah. Yeah.
930
00:30:29,410 --> 00:30:33,040
And hopefully that's not a situation too many people encounter because
931
00:30:33,130 --> 00:30:34,210
it's just not right.
932
00:30:34,210 --> 00:30:37,120
No one in this audience is doing that because we're all
933
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,260
animal lovers here.
934
00:30:40,510 --> 00:30:41,530
Oh man.
935
00:30:42,850 --> 00:30:43,270
Oh my gosh,
936
00:30:43,270 --> 00:30:44,830
this has been so good.
937
00:30:44,830 --> 00:30:45,850
I'm looking at my notes here.
938
00:30:45,850 --> 00:30:46,270
I think,
939
00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:48,610
I think we've covered everything that was on my list.
940
00:30:48,850 --> 00:30:50,290
Is there anything else Rachel,
941
00:30:50,290 --> 00:30:54,550
that you can think of that is like a major potential
942
00:30:54,550 --> 00:30:56,670
pitfall or something that,
943
00:30:56,670 --> 00:30:57,640
that, you know,
944
00:30:57,790 --> 00:31:01,690
pet photographers just really need to keep in mind either related
945
00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:03,490
to, or outside of those three kind of pillars?
946
00:31:03,670 --> 00:31:04,990
Yeah. I'm just thinking,
947
00:31:04,990 --> 00:31:05,200
you know,
948
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,990
we didn't really touch on copyright and it's not so specific
949
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:09,490
just the pet photographers,
950
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,300
but we are seeing an uptick and infringement in general.
951
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:16,990
And so I just would be mindful of the photography.
952
00:31:16,990 --> 00:31:17,140
I mean,
953
00:31:17,140 --> 00:31:19,930
you guys have phenomenal photography in your community,
954
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:23,740
be mindful of photos that you repeatedly use in marketing.
955
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,990
Those are ones I'd probably consider registering.
956
00:31:27,010 --> 00:31:28,480
Once they get the most engagement,
957
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,990
the most attention that doesn't necessarily mean those are automatically going
958
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:32,680
to be infringed.
959
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,100
You could have one that has like no engagement that some
960
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:37,060
large company,
961
00:31:37,390 --> 00:31:38,140
I almost said chewy,
962
00:31:38,140 --> 00:31:38,470
but I'm like,
963
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:46,120
I like<inaudible> Company could just come along and it has happened,
964
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,310
actually it was a horse feed company.
965
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:53,050
Believe it or not a client that I represented the photographer.
966
00:31:53,230 --> 00:31:56,050
They just took this horse photo off her Instagram and put
967
00:31:56,050 --> 00:31:57,700
it on the side of the horse feed bag.
968
00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:00,520
That's great.
969
00:32:01,210 --> 00:32:05,020
Yeah. I had a friend of mine that they did something
970
00:32:05,020 --> 00:32:07,180
similar and it was a very large company.
971
00:32:07,180 --> 00:32:10,660
And just like somebody sent them a congratulations.
972
00:32:10,660 --> 00:32:13,270
Hey, congratulations on your ad campaign for so-and-so.
973
00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:14,290
And they're like,
974
00:32:14,290 --> 00:32:16,390
what? No,
975
00:32:17,170 --> 00:32:20,410
I'm glad you said that because it'll will always be found
976
00:32:20,410 --> 00:32:21,490
out, right?
977
00:32:22,030 --> 00:32:22,810
You just,
978
00:32:23,170 --> 00:32:25,210
I was at a real estate conference back in November,
979
00:32:25,210 --> 00:32:26,650
and one of the questions to the audience,
980
00:32:26,650 --> 00:32:28,600
or she was telling me very similar,
981
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:29,480
a copyrighted freshman.
982
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:29,950
She goes,
983
00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:31,960
they mailed me the advertisement.
984
00:32:32,650 --> 00:32:35,950
I opened up my mailbox and there's my photo on this,
985
00:32:35,950 --> 00:32:36,270
you know,
986
00:32:36,270 --> 00:32:38,440
this material.
987
00:32:38,770 --> 00:32:39,650
But I just,
988
00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:40,460
I, you know,
989
00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:41,300
in the us,
990
00:32:41,450 --> 00:32:43,700
our copyright protections are not where they could be.
991
00:32:43,790 --> 00:32:45,860
So your top photos,
992
00:32:45,860 --> 00:32:47,000
the ones you love the most,
993
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:47,150
I mean,
994
00:32:47,150 --> 00:32:49,520
the lawyer answer is register all of them from when an
995
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:50,450
infringement happens.
996
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,780
The reality is you may not necessarily want to register them
997
00:32:53,780 --> 00:32:55,520
all, but oh,
998
00:32:55,550 --> 00:32:58,070
please definitely your top photos,
999
00:32:58,100 --> 00:33:00,650
ones that people are really highly seeking after,
1000
00:33:00,650 --> 00:33:03,230
especially if you are doing licensing it out,
1001
00:33:03,260 --> 00:33:05,270
not just no sales to your clients,
1002
00:33:05,270 --> 00:33:07,610
but licensing it through sites online,
1003
00:33:08,090 --> 00:33:11,960
have the copyright registration in your pocket and monitor that stuff.
1004
00:33:12,350 --> 00:33:16,760
And the reason I recommend registration is you're looking at statutory
1005
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,230
damages versus actual.
1006
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:19,580
So, you know,
1007
00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:23,720
actually there could be $0 in actual damages that local mom
1008
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,380
and pop,
1009
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:25,850
you know,
1010
00:33:25,850 --> 00:33:27,590
feed store could have made no money,
1011
00:33:27,770 --> 00:33:29,390
no business using your photo.
1012
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:30,890
So actual could be zero,
1013
00:33:30,890 --> 00:33:32,960
whereas statutory it's outlined in the law.
1014
00:33:33,290 --> 00:33:36,920
But most importantly is if you need to pursue the attorney's
1015
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,080
fees, the attorneys are the only ones that win.
1016
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,880
Right. Unfortunately,
1017
00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:42,560
you know,
1018
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,200
and I have this conversation all the time with my clients
1019
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:45,710
at the firm,
1020
00:33:45,770 --> 00:33:49,340
and we are able to recover on unregistered photos.
1021
00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:51,050
So meaning you just take the photo,
1022
00:33:51,050 --> 00:33:51,710
you publish you.
1023
00:33:51,710 --> 00:33:54,830
Haven't gone to the copyright office to register it online,
1024
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:58,970
but it's so much more helpful when we have a registration.
1025
00:33:58,970 --> 00:34:00,680
So I just throw that little tidbit out there.
1026
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,720
We could probably do a whole episode on that,
1027
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,720
but I always try to look at what are the,
1028
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:09,500
that's just a big pitfall right now for many photographers and
1029
00:34:09,710 --> 00:34:11,210
pets. No exception.
1030
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,520
Yeah. And you know,
1031
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,600
when you do that copyright registration,
1032
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:19,580
it's easy to do in bulk.
1033
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:20,720
So you can take,
1034
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:21,410
you know,
1035
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,280
maybe do it monthly or quarterly or periodically just like boom,
1036
00:34:25,310 --> 00:34:26,810
and register a whole bunch of stuff at once.
1037
00:34:26,810 --> 00:34:30,530
Yeah. You can do up to 750 in a collection.
1038
00:34:30,650 --> 00:34:31,700
And yeah,
1039
00:34:31,700 --> 00:34:32,720
it's like I said,
1040
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:33,830
the lawyer answers do them,
1041
00:34:33,830 --> 00:34:37,070
all the real answers I don't even register all mine is
1042
00:34:37,070 --> 00:34:38,420
the most important ones.
1043
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,050
If there's a,
1044
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:39,560
you know,
1045
00:34:39,710 --> 00:34:41,480
if and when it'll happen.
1046
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,370
And then if a large company takes your photo,
1047
00:34:43,370 --> 00:34:43,910
call me,
1048
00:34:43,910 --> 00:34:45,470
cause I love to eat them for breakfast.
1049
00:34:47,630 --> 00:34:48,740
Perfect. Perfect.
1050
00:34:49,010 --> 00:34:51,950
The only unfortunate part of that is like outside the U
1051
00:34:51,950 --> 00:34:53,060
S for instance,
1052
00:34:53,060 --> 00:34:56,090
some random Chinese company stealing your image and selling shirts.
1053
00:34:56,180 --> 00:34:57,920
There's not really anything you can do about that though.
1054
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,540
Right. And those ones are difficult if you're looking at,
1055
00:35:01,550 --> 00:35:02,240
like in UK,
1056
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:03,530
Australia, Canada,
1057
00:35:03,530 --> 00:35:06,140
we have a bit more reach because we have different conventions
1058
00:35:06,140 --> 00:35:07,250
that we can reach through.
1059
00:35:07,490 --> 00:35:08,090
But yeah,
1060
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,090
anything else over there it's very difficult,
1061
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:12,470
which is really unfortunate.
1062
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:16,640
Especially if you're someone that is going in having multiple revenue
1063
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,780
streams out of one session.
1064
00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:19,370
Right. So when we're the client,
1065
00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:21,440
then stock photography and then licensing,
1066
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,620
maybe the company and it's difficult because it can dilute the
1067
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:25,880
value of your photograph.
1068
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,350
Unfortunately, you can try and do take down notices with those
1069
00:35:30,350 --> 00:35:32,390
companies as far as physical products.
1070
00:35:32,420 --> 00:35:33,410
That's difficult,
1071
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,070
but yeah.
1072
00:35:34,220 --> 00:35:36,290
Yeah. Crazy world out there,
1073
00:35:36,770 --> 00:35:37,650
digital world.
1074
00:35:39,180 --> 00:35:40,230
Oh yeah.
1075
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:41,160
This was so good though.
1076
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:41,730
So, so good,
1077
00:35:41,730 --> 00:35:42,570
Rachel, thank you.
1078
00:35:42,570 --> 00:35:43,590
Thank you so much.
1079
00:35:43,620 --> 00:35:43,950
You know,
1080
00:35:43,950 --> 00:35:45,060
you guys out there,
1081
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:48,120
I'm sure we're going to let you plug your spots in
1082
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:48,840
a second here.
1083
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:49,170
You know,
1084
00:35:49,170 --> 00:35:50,820
but contracts,
1085
00:35:50,850 --> 00:35:53,460
law talk has everything you guys need to get set up
1086
00:35:53,490 --> 00:35:55,170
for your business.
1087
00:35:55,410 --> 00:35:57,030
I can give them my hair at the dog code here.
1088
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:57,660
Right. Rachel,
1089
00:36:00,510 --> 00:36:01,680
That we just,
1090
00:36:02,130 --> 00:36:05,010
we just released a free legal roadmap.
1091
00:36:05,010 --> 00:36:07,320
So a lot of you talked about here that way you
1092
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,350
can visually kind of see what you need has more definitions,
1093
00:36:10,620 --> 00:36:12,030
bit more explanation,
1094
00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:12,690
but then yes.
1095
00:36:12,690 --> 00:36:13,410
Give them your code.
1096
00:36:13,470 --> 00:36:14,400
Perfect. What's the,
1097
00:36:14,610 --> 00:36:15,690
what's the spot for that?
1098
00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:21,720
To, for them to get that legal Roadmap@thelawtalkjustinthemenu.com.
1099
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,190
Yep. Perfect.
1100
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:23,730
And then,
1101
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:24,600
yeah, the code,
1102
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,040
if you guys need any contracts from there,
1103
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,890
it's hair of dog 10 and you'll save 10%.
1104
00:36:29,610 --> 00:36:31,800
And also if you're out there and you're like,
1105
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,360
man, I actually,
1106
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:34,440
we didn't touch on this.
1107
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,230
And this is a huge thing in the pet photography world
1108
00:36:37,230 --> 00:36:38,790
is, you know,
1109
00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:42,240
Nicole Begley photography versus like fluffy feet photography.
1110
00:36:42,540 --> 00:36:46,110
And if you're going to have some sort of name of
1111
00:36:46,110 --> 00:36:46,620
your business,
1112
00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:52,230
that's not your name and the trademarking of said name and
1113
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:53,880
how important that is.
1114
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,560
That's pretty important.
1115
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:55,770
I mean,
1116
00:36:55,770 --> 00:36:56,340
like you just,
1117
00:36:56,340 --> 00:36:59,910
you can just joked about this digital world where it makes
1118
00:36:59,910 --> 00:37:01,410
the world even smaller.
1119
00:37:01,410 --> 00:37:04,230
So I think even now with,
1120
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:06,540
so I mean even more so now than any time in
1121
00:37:06,540 --> 00:37:08,790
history before with social media and everything,
1122
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:12,960
it's so important to federally register your trademark in the U
1123
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:19,200
S and that way you're not having to compete against 49.
1124
00:37:19,260 --> 00:37:20,850
Other of the exact same name,
1125
00:37:20,850 --> 00:37:23,190
because like when you go to set up your LLC,
1126
00:37:23,970 --> 00:37:25,980
I, if I just set up the law tog LLC in
1127
00:37:25,980 --> 00:37:28,650
Virginia, someone could go be the law tog and Florida.
1128
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,530
Well then y'all were just confused where to get the stuff
1129
00:37:31,530 --> 00:37:32,130
from. Right.
1130
00:37:32,430 --> 00:37:34,950
And so that's why it's important to have the federal trademark
1131
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:36,630
to help protect that brand name.
1132
00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:38,640
Plus if you're ever looking at,
1133
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:39,060
you know,
1134
00:37:39,060 --> 00:37:41,250
what is your exit plan from your business?
1135
00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:42,300
Are you planning on selling it?
1136
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,270
IP is the most important intellectual property,
1137
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:47,430
right. And that includes the name of your business.
1138
00:37:47,460 --> 00:37:49,680
So that's on the roadmap.
1139
00:37:49,710 --> 00:37:51,960
I'm trying to think of where that's that's towards the end.
1140
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,320
So we actually kind of started this podcast with the first
1141
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,190
few steps.
1142
00:37:56,190 --> 00:37:57,960
Trademark comes back around once.
1143
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,130
You've got like the three thing,
1144
00:37:59,140 --> 00:37:59,430
you know,
1145
00:37:59,430 --> 00:38:00,240
the contracts,
1146
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,010
insurance entity,
1147
00:38:02,010 --> 00:38:03,000
and all of that set up,
1148
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:04,440
I would probably,
1149
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,440
yeah. Trademark so incredibly important.
1150
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,070
Like it just,
1151
00:38:08,430 --> 00:38:10,950
it's one of those things that you just,
1152
00:38:11,010 --> 00:38:12,390
here's another example.
1153
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,790
I just thought about trademarking,
1154
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:17,460
not even just so that you have SEO issues or you're
1155
00:38:17,460 --> 00:38:19,260
not able to get your social media handles.
1156
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,860
What if there's someone in another state same or similar name
1157
00:38:23,070 --> 00:38:26,580
who does hit dogs in their photography session?
1158
00:38:26,580 --> 00:38:30,210
Do you want that reputation or Rhona's attached to you and
1159
00:38:30,210 --> 00:38:30,690
you guys,
1160
00:38:30,990 --> 00:38:31,620
people might've been,
1161
00:38:31,650 --> 00:38:33,600
oh, that's a weird example.
1162
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,790
There have been examples in the wedding world actually,
1163
00:38:37,060 --> 00:38:39,010
where I've seen this happen,
1164
00:38:39,010 --> 00:38:40,510
that the wrong reputation,
1165
00:38:40,510 --> 00:38:41,080
and then the whole,
1166
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:41,340
you know,
1167
00:38:41,350 --> 00:38:44,110
it's the whole Pitchfork and the canceling online.
1168
00:38:44,110 --> 00:38:45,640
And it was the wrong business.
1169
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,770
And it could really could have been prevented if they had
1170
00:38:47,770 --> 00:38:49,570
just protected their name because the,
1171
00:38:50,170 --> 00:38:52,420
the innocent photographer was like,
1172
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:54,100
I don't even live in Oklahoma.
1173
00:38:54,130 --> 00:38:56,380
Like, what is the deal we're in here?
1174
00:38:56,380 --> 00:39:00,130
So you just don't want the reputation of another business erroneously
1175
00:39:00,130 --> 00:39:02,020
attached to you and trademark can help with that.
1176
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:03,430
Yeah, for sure.
1177
00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:05,230
So if you guys are out there and you're like,
1178
00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:07,390
man, I need to trademark my business name.
1179
00:39:07,390 --> 00:39:08,680
Rachel can help you with that too.
1180
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,510
At our Eden law firm,
1181
00:39:11,350 --> 00:39:14,860
actually helping me build out all sorts of new contracts for
1182
00:39:14,860 --> 00:39:15,820
the hair of the dog stuff.
1183
00:39:15,820 --> 00:39:17,110
So super helpful.
1184
00:39:17,110 --> 00:39:19,060
I speak from experience Rachel's teams.
1185
00:39:19,090 --> 00:39:22,000
Awesome. And my friend by the end of the,
1186
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,470
our client attorney session.
1187
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:24,370
So be warned.
1188
00:39:24,670 --> 00:39:26,440
Yes. And then you get to see all the pictures of
1189
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,470
Bellamy. You need to show more of your little Belgian Malinois.
1190
00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:31,660
Cause he's adorable to a Little girl.
1191
00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:31,960
He's like,
1192
00:39:34,810 --> 00:39:37,330
Ah, Bellamy gets all the spotlight.
1193
00:39:37,450 --> 00:39:37,990
It's okay.
1194
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:41,440
He's my favorite.
1195
00:39:42,610 --> 00:39:43,060
I Love it.
1196
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:43,690
I love it.
1197
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:44,110
All right,
1198
00:39:44,110 --> 00:39:45,430
Rachel, this has been so great.
1199
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:47,260
Go ahead and let us know one more time where people
1200
00:39:47,260 --> 00:39:50,170
can find you online and we really,
1201
00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:52,900
really appreciate you taking the time to help us all get
1202
00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:53,890
legally protected.
1203
00:39:54,010 --> 00:39:56,020
Yeah. So the law talk.com
1204
00:39:56,020 --> 00:39:57,280
has got the free legal roadmap.
1205
00:39:57,310 --> 00:39:59,770
We have the Facebook group on Facebook,
1206
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,010
obviously, and then my Instagram you'll see reels.
1207
00:40:03,010 --> 00:40:04,750
I don't really dance maybe sometime,
1208
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:07,330
but we don't click the quick tidbits of information.
1209
00:40:07,330 --> 00:40:08,590
Cause I know this is a lot.
1210
00:40:08,590 --> 00:40:10,060
So if you made it through this whole episode,
1211
00:40:10,060 --> 00:40:11,630
I'm proud of you keep at it.
1212
00:40:11,630 --> 00:40:12,460
It can be overwhelming,
1213
00:40:12,460 --> 00:40:14,020
but feel free honestly,
1214
00:40:14,020 --> 00:40:15,820
to reach out myself or my team,
1215
00:40:15,820 --> 00:40:17,830
we'll help find you the resources that you need.
1216
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,640
Cause I feel like if we each individually get protected,
1217
00:40:20,660 --> 00:40:22,240
we really lift the whole industry.
1218
00:40:22,660 --> 00:40:23,740
Yeah. Agreed.
1219
00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:24,820
Thanks so much Rachel,
1220
00:40:24,820 --> 00:40:27,460
for being here and everybody else I'll see you next week.
1221
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,030
If you enjoy this podcast episode,
1222
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:34,420
go ahead and take a screenshot of this episode on your
1223
00:40:34,420 --> 00:40:37,690
phone and post it up there on your Instagram stories and
1224
00:40:37,690 --> 00:40:41,560
be sure to tag us at hair of the dog academy.
1225
00:40:41,860 --> 00:40:45,430
And we would just love to see how you're listening and
1226
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:46,540
a full disclosure.
1227
00:40:46,690 --> 00:40:50,110
Sometimes we just like to give away a little pet photographer,
1228
00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:53,950
swag in the form of hair of the dog t-shirts and
1229
00:40:53,950 --> 00:40:56,800
sweatshirts. So what are you waiting for?
1230
00:40:57,100 --> 00:41:00,220
Go ahead and share that screenshot of this episode.
1231
00:41:00,490 --> 00:41:02,620
And don't forget to tag us hat hair or the dog
1232
00:41:02,620 --> 00:41:04,780
academy. And while you're there,
1233
00:41:05,230 --> 00:41:07,510
maybe you want to jump on over to our account and
1234
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:10,720
see what we're up to on the gram would love to
1235
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:11,530
connect with you.
1236
00:41:12,610 --> 00:41:14,710
Thanks for listening to the hair of the dog podcast.
1237
00:41:14,830 --> 00:41:17,230
This was episode number 1 39.
1238
00:41:17,230 --> 00:41:19,060
If you want to check out the show notes for access
1239
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:21,280
to any of the resources that we mentioned,
1240
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:26,530
simply go to www.hairofthedogacademy.com/
1241
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:28,720
1 3 9.
1242
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:31,360
Thanks for listening to this episode of hair of the dog
1243
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,040
podcast. If you enjoyed this show,
1244
00:41:33,230 --> 00:41:34,940
please take a minute to leave a review.
1245
00:41:35,150 --> 00:41:36,050
And while you're there,
1246
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,550
don't forget to subscribe.
1247
00:41:37,610 --> 00:41:41,060
So you don't miss our upcoming episodes on last thing,
1248
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,120
if you are ready to dive into more resources,
1249
00:41:44,420 --> 00:42:54,450
head over to our website@wwwdothairofthedogacademy.com.
1250
00:42:54,810 --> 00:42:57,990
Thanks for being a part of this pet photography community.