Howard Givens Interview With The Final On Vinyl

I had a wonderful conversation with Howard Gives regarding the process of recording his music,  his latest release The Bodhi Mantra  and his amazing label Spotted Peccary Music.

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Transcript

Speaker 2 0:03

Hello everybody, this is Keith "MuzikMan" Hannnaleck The Final on Vinyl Podcast

Speaker 2 0:07

interview with Howard Givens. And just a quick intro to Howard and some of his accomplishments over the years, to put it downsized a bit, I should say. For over 35 years, he's been an ambient and electronic artist, and he's been crafting and producing electronic music and sound spaces in search of an authentic, organic, tangible expression of an intangible origin of sound. He's directly involved with creating, recording, and producing the subtlety of sounds generated from various electronic sound sources, including hardware, analog, and digital synthesizers, software synthesizers, and samplers and effects processing, and blending them with acoustic sounds including piano, drums, guitars, percussion, ethnic and other worldly instruments and environmental sounds. And I found that out by covering um the LP, uh, the Bode mantra by Howard and Greg Craig Padilla in June. And here he is, Howard. How are you?

Speaker 3 1:15

Gee, yeah. Glad to be here. I really I really appreciate this opportunity to talk with you.

Speaker 2 1:22

I as well. Uh forgive me for stumbling. I you know you try to read a paragraph and be perfect, but it just never happens that way. Yeah, well, there's a lot of words there. Yes, yes, there is. I can't imagine being a newscaster or something like that. I just I wouldn't be able to do it. This suits me well. So it's been a while since uh we were able to connect, and uh it's hard to believe it was back in June that I actually covered this for the final and vinyl, uh, your wonderful music. And would you say that paragraph that I just gave as your intro is a good overview of who you are and what you present?

Speaker 3 2:04

Um yeah, probably. Um, you know, it's it's it's funny. I think as we go along, we sort of you know evaluate or self-evaluate, we grow, we change, and whether we're the same person that we write about or somebody writes about, you know, on one given day or in in a month, maybe six months later, you feel completely different. Um and this year has been a good example of that, how so many of us have gone through so many monumental changes, and it's happened so fast. And you know, you think back, well, where were we all a year ago? And it's clearly not where we are now. So uh I think uh you know, depending upon the the instruments you're using or the uh artists that we're working with, the inspirations that come into our life and how we respond to them, whether it's you know the environment or things, you know, world events or whatever it is, uh, or it's some sort of internal inspiration, I think I think the story changes. I think it we constantly are evolving, modifying, and changing everything up. Um so yeah, it's hard to uh to to put a you know a finite description on on anyone, and I I don't know. It's probably a pretty good place to start.

Speaker 2 3:28

Right. It's uh definitely been a year of change, forced change, and some of it good, some of it not so good, depending on who you are, what life situation you're in. Uh I know personally I've read a ton of books and gone in a lot of different directions to inform myself about different subjects and just striving to be a better person and gain all the knowledge I can, you know. Um I'm like a sponsor, you know, I've always been that way. I want to I'm very curious and I want to learn. So uh the one thing that really I have a lot of interest in, I understood that um you're one of the few people that gets involved on producing the vinyl, going to the factory and actually be a part of that process, is that right?

Speaker 3 4:12

Uh yeah, I mean it's you know, one of the the roles that I I play, uh that's the right word, um, is besides being uh uh say an artist, composer, uh creator of music, um uh would also be working with other artists and producing, and then even further than that, mastering. Um so I do a lot of mastering for releases that are on the Spotify Peckery label, as well as some other artists outside of the label. And um and so it's uh in the process of mastering, when we're mastering you know, for digital or mastering for for vinyl for uh for analog uh output, you really get involved very specifically on what works for vinyl and how to get the best response from from that experience. And and you know, that we've always seen or talked about or heard about the differences between digital and and analog or CDs and digital uh content and and vinyl. And there's definitely um there's you know it's just like anything, you you know, there's some tricks and there's ways to get the most out of the experience. So it's it's it's it's important, I think, to be involved with every aspect of it, to you know, not necessarily from a control point of view, but from striving to achieve the best possible result.

Speaker 2 5:47

Well, that's evident, and the way that LP came out, I mean I I just love the sound of LPs, and I have a massive collection now. I just can't stop buying them. I'm like addicted. Um, but you know, I love it. I really enjoy it. And um that label you're with is just amazing, and I've really, you know, it's become one of my favorites. And um, Beth just uh asked me if I wanted to cover another one, another LP. I said, hey, anything by that label, please send it to me, you know. So for people out there for people out there who don't know, Beth Hilton, she's uh uh a press agent, and she has been working with me a long time and has worked with Howard, so just wanted to make that point. Um so as far as your process with the uh the bodhimantra, did I say that right?

Speaker 3 6:38

Yeah, bodhimantra. Yep.

Speaker 2 6:41

How long did it take you to get that together with uh Craig? And I imagine you did it, you know, some digital swapping over the internet and then put it all together?

Speaker 3 6:50

Um actually, no. Um we um worked directly together in the studio. Um we have kind of an interesting workflow, and in fact, um, like everybody, how we're happy we're all having to reinvent ourselves. We're trying to discover, okay, initially our lives have changed, we're forced into a different form of of existence. How do we redefine the workflow? How do we redefine um uh communicating that to the fans and listeners and to all the people that are interested in in bringing music into their lives? How do we how do we you know change up the the notion of live performance? Well, for Craig and myself, how we t normally would work is we almost worked like a live workflow, but in the studio. So it was very, very immediate, spontaneous, you know, maybe one person or the other would come up with you know uh uh an interesting sequence or a bed or a develop a chordal uh structure movement, and then we would both begin to just sort of um uh what would be the right way to say it, just kind of like with a certain amount of synchronicity to it. It's just like all of a sudden it would just flow, and we would just be playing together, you know, kind of refine the composition, it would it would happen very fast, and then uh rehearse and maybe you know change things a little bit, say, well, you know, we could do this better, and and actually work out the composition, craft it. And then um basically just start, you know, we'd either print entirely just the way it was, everything down to two tracks, or we would print the majority of section, and then maybe add a couple other what you know, what we term overdubs, uh basically a second performance on top of the first performance so as to complete the the conversation that the music was trying to have. You know, we're not really we're not really limited by a certain type of predetermined workflow that says, oh, you know, you can only use oil paint, you know, or this or that. It's like we we try to use whatever colors are on the palette and we use whatever modalities make sense for the music, because it's really more about the conversation that happens within the music as though it's its own thing.

Speaker 2 9:23

That's amazing. It's like live off-the-floor freeform production. Then once that's done, you both sit there and listen and go, let's make a little tweak here, let's make a little tweak there, then you get your final ester. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3 9:37

Yeah. And that's just a particular workflow that Craig and I have developed. Um we've done that actually in all of the releases. Um, probably being of light, the previous studio release before the Bodhi Mantra, um, was really much more of what you kind of think of as a crafted studio album. But that was only because it it happened over a long period of time. We would work on a song or two, and then Craig would be off doing something, and I'd be off doing something, and then boom, we'd get back together and put another song together, and then so it was kind of a piecemeal process. And in the middle of that whole process, we sat down and did Life Flows Water. So Life Flows Water, even though it came out before the Being of Light, that title actually was created while we were in the middle of making Being of Light, and that whole album came together within one week. That's crazy. Yeah, two albums going on within one week. I'm sorry, what? Two things going on at once. Two things going on at once. So one basically was born from the other experience, and when we did Life Lows Water, we discovered an even more powerful uh approach to to kind of streaming the music through us as though we were uh the the facilitators for the music. You know, we were just we were there working with the instruments, but the but the music was just writing itself, it was just you know just happening. And so from that experience, we took that sort of modality and said, okay, let's let's do this next project that way. And that's what really became the Bodhi Mantra was very, very fast.

Speaker 2 11:33

Hmm. Interesting. So do you feel when you get in the studio and you're you're with Craig, um in instances like this, your whole mindset obviously changes, but do you feel on a spiritual level that there's a change too? And you know, it's almost like something else comes in and takes over, then that flow stops uh the other process and you just keep going. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 12:02

Um yeah, yeah. Um yeah, it's a good question. You know, it's I I I think that you know, as an artist, we're we're trying to talk about what we observe. We're we're trying to express something we all feel, right? We're reflecting on life as an artist. And yet in the process of creating art, the art starts to inform the artist about things within themselves. In other words, it's almost like it's a mirror. And I think what happens here is that when we're in that space, it's it's almost like a streaming consciousness type of thing. I know that sounds kind of woo-woo, but it it really is. I mean, I can't I I I've worked with so many artists over the years and been in you know, live music situations and studio situations, and when you're in the flow, you're in the flow, it's just happening. And you don't really stop to self-examine or question it, you just go with it. And it is kind of like you're getting a download, it's just flowing through, and you know, and the practicing that an artist, uh, you know, a musician or a or or or a writer, you know, an author, um, a sculptor, the the practice comes in getting the the hands, the mechanical process, the the body memory to become so effortless that there's no distraction happening on the physical level to impede that flow. That's really what practice is.

Speaker 2 13:45

I totally get that because that's what happens to me when I put music on and I start writing. It just flows, and I'll look at it and go, whoa, how did I just do that so fast? It just it's a stream, it's a it's it's mindfulness, being in the moment. And uh I totally get it. And that's what I try to convey in my reviews. I don't um I don't go track by track and you know try to bore people. I really try to convey what it's making me feel, what I think the artist is conveying, and hopefully you saw that in the review that I presented to you folks.

Speaker 3 14:22

So yeah, yeah, yeah, it was great. Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2 14:26

So leaving behind the new, uh almost clocked in at 90 minutes. That was like your penal limit track. And you know, when I hear songs like that, I'm thinking craft work, tangerine dream, katero. Were there some of the influences there, would you say, or was am I off base?

Speaker 3 14:46

Um, you know, I it's when we're oftentimes working on some a project like this, and then I would say this isn't exclusive to the work I do with Craig. It would be true of most everybody I'm working with. Um there's no real predetermined outcome per se. I mean, we kind of all know that it's better to have you know maybe a certain type of length, or if if obviously when we're working with vinyl, we have a very constrained length requirement per side of the vinyl, right? Because the the 33 and a third RPMs, you've got, you know, you've got a you've got to be aware of the fact that you don't want to be much more than 22 minutes per side. You can stretch it out to about 30 minutes per side, but then there are other sacrifices that happen sonically. So you you know that there's kind of a constrained limit. Um and we have to it that affects things, there's no question about it. Um I but I think in general, um, we don't go about trying to make a long form piece, we just feel it. You feel the space, you feel the music, you feel the energy. And if the piece is so long or it's it's it's doing what it needs to do that it doesn't fit on vinyl, well then it's not gonna be on vinyl. It's gonna be in the digital form. And when a piece can can feel good at the right length for vinyl, then it's eligible for that. And I think it's it's almost most important to listen to the music and listen to what the music is trying to express than to try to fit the music in a box. Because then we're too much in our own heads trying to determine an outcome. And oftentimes, which is which of course, you know, parallels life, right? When we get too much in our heads and we try to define an outcome or or control the result, you know, then something like a virus comes along and says, uh, you know what? You guys are all messed up. Life is just life. So, you know, I I so I think it's important in the in the flow process, in the in the creative expression, to not be in our heads too much, not to be contrain you know constraining the process. So um that's you know, it's it just sort of happens and we just we go with it and see what what works.

Speaker 2 17:23

Totally makes sense to me, you know. Um I've learned to respect folks like you over the years and you know, finding out more and more of what the process is involved, and there's still so much that goes into it, and um I totally understand now, and it took me a while. I think I understand why people feel slighted if you know people are exchanging music and the artist is not being um paid, you know. It's like how would you like it if you went to work for a week and your company said, Well, we're not paying you this week, you can't eat? It's the same thing, you know. And as far as your taste in music and from whence you came, um what pointed you in the direction of this type of music? How did it all start for you?

Speaker 3 18:15

Um, well, it had nothing to do with getting paid. Um to be honest. Um, you know, it's one of those things where I mean i i I I think there are people who get involved in the music industry as a business. In other words, that that they're business-minded people and they and their art, their art is is the craft of business, right? Um but I would say for myself and and the friends of mine that that have we've all worked together to to build this label from the very beginning, and and uh why we even started making music to begin with was literally just being called to it. You know, it was compelling. We had to express ourselves artistically, visually, writing, music, whatever. And then you discover after a while, you know, you're you're making this music, for instance, and you know, invariably friends come around and say, Wow, that's really good. You guys should sell that, or you should put that out, you know. And and of course, that all sounds really wonderful until you realize that, oh, wait a minute, this is a lot harder than it seems, and all of a sudden now you have a business. Um so hopefully uh you're a little good at how to to uh create a business and and do a good job at it. And um that's a different gift, that's a different art. And uh not everybody can can do all of that. I mean, that's uh that's it's very challenging. But that's kind of how we got involved with it. You know, we started doing the music just because we were inspired by maybe by some of the artists that you're mentioning, like Kitaro, you know, we heard you know, early Kataro, we heard, you know, Klaus Schulze and Time Wind and Tandrine Dream, and you know, and I you know personally I had been exposed to everything from Paul Horn inside the Great Pyramid and and some of his stuff, and Pauline Oliver's and you know the acoustic side of things that kind of evolved out of maybe jazz or evolved out of classical to you know Wendy Carlos, which who I was exposed to at a very young age. Um, maybe in the rock realm like Pink Floyd and Yes, and so I was always fascinated personally by sound that could actually create uh beyond color and texture, it would actually actually create an environment. And that it connected to my own sensibilities of you know, kind of spiritual self-exploration, enlightenment. There was some thread there that was part of a continuum. And maybe when I was very young, I didn't uh intellectually describe it, but I sensed it innately, like it was just a natural place to be, and always sought it out. And so whether I you know, when uh moving from piano, acoustic piano uh in the very, very beginning of life to acoustic guitar or whatever, you know, it was always more interesting to add reverb, add delays, how do we make more space? How do we create more of a mood rather than just a song? You know, and when I say just, I mean that's not to say that songs aren't great because they are, but it was I was looking for something a little more abstract than a physical um. um you know, process of of uh of an actual song, you know. And so it was uh it that exploration kept you know listening to other artists doing stuff and saying, hey, how did they do that? And then try to go create that or recreate that or kind of discover more with the instruments and then you know starting to add synthesizers as they were being you know as we could afford them because they were expensive in those days. And then and then using those techniques to to start creating these compositions of expression of you know and and that's kind of how the whole brain laughter stuff started it which you know led to the creation of spotted peckery music and you know living at that time living in the Sonoran desert you know outside of Tucson and and exploring those magical spaces out in the mountains in the desert you know the Sonoran Desert area kind of like in a in a sense of you know Carlos Castaneda's you know description of Don Juan you know moving through the desert and oh yeah that whole experience really developed uh the brain laughter uh focus and and the what was behind the music there it was really about the energy of the desert and it was the energy of of that experience of living there and so that just kind of continued that whole vein and so that label is your label I didn't realize that yes it is yeah actually I started it um back in uh the 80s oh wow and okay um yeah well I'm I'm talking to the top man so I want you to know when you have any vinyl if you have any vinyl send it to me or just you know shoot me an email say hey I got this I'll cover it and I'll put it up on the final and vinyl thank you so you you say a lot of interesting things that totally click with me and when you were just talking about the whole process um what I see and what I've realized over the years is that everything is a springboard to another thing and it and it's an evolution and it's constantly changing.

Speaker 2 24:17

And with new age music you know when I first started with this it was like well it has to be new age music. Well guess what there are so many subgenres now it's unbelievable and it's not just the music it's the content you know you know you're looking at the cover art you're looking at the track names you're listening to music and you're getting certain feelings it's about all that and what the music creates for the listener. And if it falls under New Age and all those subgenres then it belongs on my New Age music review site right that's the way I look at it.

Speaker 3 24:51

Right right absolutely I mean what is really new age music I I I think if you if you were to go back to the time period when that that term was actually coined which was you know 79 to 81 somewhere in that area right right around 1980 it it started to pop up nobody really knew what that was it wasn't a movement it wasn't anything it was just it was just uh where music was more specifically tied um to some abstract sensibility that may describe uh uh an exploration into you know uh one's own spirituality or one's own uh self-discovery and it it doesn't have to be spiritual or religion or anything else it just had to be something about trying to to develop this sense of one's being whether it was meditation or later on you know yoga or just you know pondering things somehow the music was kind of connecting to the person and the person to their environment and that was that was sort of the synergy of the whole thing. But it really didn't have any real movement or or meaning to it and there were a variety of different you know uh artists that were doing things that kind of all got lumped into that category and you know we we initially would go to maybe that section to find artists like Harold Bud or to find Brian Eno or to you know find Steve Roach you know you would you would see all these different types of artists doing stuff and and the that music's very different than the music that Wyndham Hill and Will Ackerman developed um that's true that really became kind of the the the foundation of new age music which is really actually new acoustic music. It wasn't even very electronic right I had a lot of that music back in the day yeah so I mean but if you take that music if you take the music of Windham Hill and then you combine that with the music of Enya and the Celtic uh traditional Celtic even uh influence music combine that with Steve Roach and uh Jean Michel Jarr and maybe you know Vangelis or you know you see all of a sudden we're talking about hugely different music coming from way different places. So is that new age music? I don't know. You know it's like well then it's kind of rock or is it classical or is it is it jazz well not so much jazz but then there are areas of jazz that would fit into that you know like as falls Wichita so falls Wichita Falls you know you can there are they're they're great albums or um uh what was um uh the artist um um Jean-Luc Ponty right oh he was great in jazz and and here he's playing these like what was it Cosmic Messenger I think was an album out of the 70s or something it was again you know it's like well okay is that more like Shadow Facts which was on Windham Hill or is that more like is that more like Pink Floyd or who's you know so it's it's you know it's an interesting thing about genres and names and titles and you're absolutely right I think it's so important to not be uh defined and limited by uh a specific notion or whatever I think music we discover and and apply to our lives however it inspires us it's like a tree you know a strong oak tree it has strong roots and it continues to grow and different branches continue to grow and there's more leaves you know it just keeps going and going so absolutely this is that this has been a wonderful conversation I I'm very grateful for this and your music and your label and um thank you would you be interested in introducing new artists um that you're ready to release uh we could do another podcast on that if you'd like oh sure yeah whatever uh you know I whatever fits your uh expression your artistic expression you know through your podcast and things that you're doing to help share what the story is about the music and the artists and and this whole process you know that's I'd be happy to help yeah okay great well once again I appreciate your time um this is uh thank you Music and uh oh you're welcome Howard thank you again um appreciate all your time today and uh I'll get this up on the internet and promote it send you the links and I'll also add it to the review and uh we'll be all set. That sounds great. Well thank you so much.

Speaker 2 30:02

Thank you. Happy holidays you too take care bye bye bye bye